Joe Basile

We talk to former Neo-Futurist Joe Basile!

Show Notes

Intro: Crypto bros, missing the great economic bubbles of the early 2000s. We may as well have cotton candy furniture, Severance on Apple TV, Bad Vegan.
Let Me Run This By You: Stage Moms, kindergarten theatre.
Interview: We talk to Joe Basile about Long Island accents, NYU Tisch, Bradley Walker, Ensemble Studio Theatre, Liz Lerman's Critical Response Process, Mary Zimmerman's Metamorphoses, the Neo-Futurists Too Much Light Makes the Baby Go Blind (The Infinite Wrench), perfectionism,  Roundabout Theatre Company,  A Bright Room Called Day, Suzan Lori Parks, Go Humphrey, sock puppet Showgirls, keeping the thread of community after college ends.
FULL TRANSCRIPT (unedited):
3 (10s):
And I'm Gina Kalichi.

1 (11s):
We went to theater school together. We survived it, but we didn't quite understand it.

3 (15s):
20 years later, we're digging deep talking to our guests about their experiences and trying to make sense of it all.

1 (21s):
We survived theater school and you will too. Are we famous yet?

2 (32s):
Okay. I'm getting, I'm getting it together. I, Yeah, I woke up with this really interesting idea that I wanted to run by you, which was, cause I was really tired when I woke up and I thought, okay, everyone's tired when they wake up. And then I thought, well, and they always say like, Americans, you know, never get enough sleep. We're always tired. But like nobody ever investigates why really? Why that is that our system is really fucked up. So like, I don't know. I just was like, yeah, we always do all these like expos A's on like sleep or wellness. Right? Like Americans are the fattest and the most unhealthy. And I'm only speaking about Americans because that's where we live. I don't know shit about Madrid.

2 (1m 13s):
You know, I'm sure they're they have their own plethora of fucking problems. But I'm just saying like, we don't actually do the work to like, figure out what is wrong. We're just like, Americans are, this Americans are that nobody's getting enough sleep. And like, there's all these, you know, sort of headlines. Right. And we're not just like, well, why is nobody getting enough sleep? Like what is actually happening? So that was my grand thought upon waking up was like, yeah, like, I don't know. We just never dig deep in this case. We're not big on digging.

4 (1m 46s):
Probably not. I mean, I think our lifestyle overall is pretty unhealthy and it's because of our economic model.

2 (1m 58s):
What I was gonna say, it all boils down to see the thing is the more you talk to people, the more I do the angrier I get, especially like in my office, like slash co-working, like I gravitate towards the ladies and a lot of ladies of color. And we end up sitting around talking about how like capitalism and systematic racism and sexism are all tied together and how, and by the end, we're just so angry. We're like, okay, what can we do? And we're like, okay, well we need to stop putting money in the pockets of this old white man who owns the coworking. But like we have nowhere else to go. So we're like, now we're screwed. So anyway, it's interesting. It's like it all, every conversation I have of meaning with you or with my cousin and it all boils down to the same thing.

2 (2m 43s):
And then you end up thinking, I ended up thinking the really, the only way is mass extinction and starting over with a new species, fresh slate, fresh or revolution, right. Or some kind of bloody revolution, it's going to be bloody because you know, the, the, the, the people in power aren't going to let go as we see. So like, we're not, it's not good is all, but I don't feel necessarily like, and maybe it's because I took MTMA, but like, I don't necessarily feel terrible about it. I feel just like, oh yeah, like we're, we're headed towards this way, unless something drastic happens. And I'm not sure that's a terrible thing. Now I don't have children.

2 (3m 23s):
So I might feel totally different about my children and my children's children and their children, but I just don't, that's not my frame of mind. So anyway, that's what I was thinking as I was so tired, waking up.

4 (3m 35s):
Is there any world in which you and the other women in coworking can just put your, just rent and office?

2 (3m 44s):
So we're starting to organize to like, be like, okay, you know, like who would want to go in on a lease, you know? But the thing is, it's so interesting. It's like, well, maybe it's LA, but it's also the world. Like, people don't really trust it. Like we don't really know each other that well yet. So we'd have to like do credit checks and thank God. My credit is good. Thank God. Now it was terrible. But all this to say is that like also LA so transitory that people are like in and out and, and like my, you know, travel. It's just so it's such a weird existence, but we are talking and there's a guy, a black dude. Who's also like my financial guru guy who like, who works at co-working.

2 (4m 28s):
I met here, he's a mortgage guy. And he's just been like, talking to me all about fucking crypto bros and like how the crypto bros are like, he's like, it is insane. Now, Gina, did you know, now I'm just learning about this world. And he's like, it's all, make-believe basically we live in the matrix and that fucking, there is something called the virtual real estate. Did you know this? Okay, you can purchase virtual squares of real estate, like Snoop Dogg's house, like, like, and people are doing it. And the people who are, it's like a status thing and it's expensive. And the people who are becoming billionaires are the people who run the apps.

2 (5m 9s):
Right. Are the people who created the fucking program. We are in the matrix. And I was like, wait, what? And he showed me the site where you can buy any town. If you looked into your town, people are doing it. It is, it is consumerism mixed with people are buying things that don't exist.

4 (5m 29s):
Okay. Yeah. I feel like this is what happens when people with an unchecked power and privilege, it's like, okay, well, like literally we're just making it up. Let's just have cotton candy, be our furniture now. Like it's. So I tried to get into Bitcoin.

2 (5m 50s):
Oh yeah.

4 (5m 51s):
Like about five years ago, somebody that I went to high school with is rich from Bitcoin. And, and she was like one of the founders of one of these companies. And so the first problem I have is you shouldn't invest in anything that you don't understand. Right. So I tried to read about it and I'm just like, but what, I just kept reading and being like, yeah, but what is it? Right. You know, what's an NFT.

2 (6m 20s):
Oh my God. The NFTs. Oh my God. And his name is Lamont and I love him. And he was trying to teach me about those. And I was like, Lamont. I have to take some kind of drug to understand what you're saying. I don't,

4 (6m 31s):
I have, I, you know, I've read articles. I've had people explain it to me. I mean, I think what it is, is I do know what it is, but I'm just like, that can't be what people are spending that be that,

2 (6m 43s):
Yeah, because we're not stupid people. Like we can understand concepts of things.

4 (6m 47s):
The thing that got me off of cryptocurrency and, and FTS and all that is that it's so bad for the environment, blockchain, the amount of energy that's required to power blockchain is just like so destructive.

2 (7m 3s):
Okay. So this leads me to, so Lamont was like, you know, what's going on in the coworking row storage room. And I'm like, what? And of course me, I'm like, are there, is there like a torture chamber? That's why Was like, no, he's like one of the side businesses of the CEO of this place is to host these crypto machines that, that it's like credit card terminals, but for crypto. And so all the, all the crypto exchanges that go on need checks and balances, God, he's such a good teacher. He actually explained it to me. He's like, look, you, when you do a crypto exchange with somebody that has to be checked or else, how do you know you're actually getting shit, which is all like theoretical anyway.

2 (7m 47s):
But he's like, so then you have to create these machines that check the other machines. And those are some of those. And you get paid. It's just like having credit card terminals, right? It's like selling credit cards. You know, people that sell credit card terminals, like they make money off the, the things, the exchanges, the, the transactions, right? Transaction fees. It's like 10, 10 cents of whatever or something 4 cents. So we got machines in the fucking co-working that have nothing to do with coworking. And I re one day it was hotter than fuck over here. They take a lot of energy and Lamont Lamont goes to the guy, the crypto bro. Who's also the CEO of this coworking space who really wants to just be the crypto, bro.

2 (8m 27s):
He's like, listen, bro. Like, something's going to melt down. You got to have something to cool. These machines. I mean, it's a fucking disaster waiting to happen. We're all going to burn up because this motherfucker wants to do crypto. He's not even dude. He's just doing the terminals. They're called terminals. No wonder my motherfucking internet doesn't work. How much juice do these motherfuckers take? I got pissed. I got Lamont. And I got pissed. I said and Lamont so funny. He goes, yeah, I don't mind all this like virtual crypto shit, but I need some actual motherfucking green tee up in here. You haven't had green tea up in here for days.

4 (9m 6s):
This is what I'm going to say. This is a, like, when you all of this, when all of this starts swirling in my head and it's all overwhelming, I just go, oh, like, okay. But that's not for me. Like this whole ether, a world that's cotton candy furniture. Like that's not for me. I have to stick with what I know. I like go stick with your, with, with what's in your CTA, what's in your wheelhouse.

2 (9m 30s):
Right. She taught us. Catherine taught us that, right?

4 (9m 33s):
No, it was a

2 (9m 35s):
Catherine's job. Oh,

4 (9m 38s):
Josh. Yeah. Yeah. He was talking about, the programs are called the, your concentration is called dementia anyway, like in the same way that, you know, people create art that other people criticize. And then you say, well, it's not for you. Like, I just know that none of that is for me. So, you know, because here's the thing we Erin and I have had near misses on like a bunch of bubbles. Right? We lived in California, we lived in the bay area during the, what they used to call the.com. And all of our friends had these hundred thousand dollars a year jobs and worked at Google and places and got Friday night, beer parties and lunch catered, whatever, every single day.

4 (10m 23s):
And we were just like, oh my God, we're so dumb. We can't, we don't know how to work in tech. We don't, we can't get to me take advantage of this opportunity. Then it was the housing market. And in 2004, it's like, wow, you could get a house. Like we could buy a house. Somebody would give us a mortgage. When we have no money in so much debt, we thought we should buy a house. We looked into buying a house that didn't work out. That turned out to be a good thing. I think the crypto thing is another, like, I'm not saying it's a bubble. Although it probably is. Cause we have to be in a bubble. But I'm saying like, I put myself at ease about not being able to really grasp these things by just saying like, oh, that's not for me.

4 (11m 10s):
That's not what I'm, that's not what I'm really like here on this planet to eat, to do

2 (11m 16s):
It interests me. And also, yeah, it's so bad for the environment. And also I just don't give a fuck. Also give me my fuck. Oh, we haven't had creamer up in this bitch for like, and I started, I was like, I don't give a fuck what you do here, but I need creamer. So if you don't like it and they finally got it, you bet your ass when Lamont and I were like, okay, green tea, we need it. And they got it. Cause we were like, fuck you. Like we're not stupid. And then the other thing that I wanted to say about the whole Bitcoin, oh the minimalist movement that these, these kids that are in their thirties are doing okay, listen to this. This is insane.

2 (11m 56s):
So kids are having and kids. Yeah. They're like 30, right? They're buying Teslas. Okay. But great. They buy a Tesla. Teslas are now equipped with so much shit that you can basically live in it. As long as you have a charging, they fucking park their shit and their parents' house. I'm not kidding you. So a lot of them were living with their parents. Right. And they were like, well, this fucking sucks, but they're saving all this money. Right. Cause it's so expensive. So there's sock away, their money. They buy a Tesla, they park the Tesla in their parents' fucking driveway. And they do experiments where they plug in and then they see if they can live in it. Okay. This is like a real thing.

2 (12m 37s):
Right? So it has everything you need except a shower and the bed, or like you, your seats go down. It's actually an, a toilet shower and a toilet. And then they get, so they have a Tesla,

4 (12m 48s):
They get,

2 (12m 49s):
They get, they get, they get a gym membership. Okay. So they had a Tesla and a gym membership and that's all they need. And they fucking don't own shit except crypto currency in their Tesla and fucking go around to different cities. And there's like all these Airbnb hacks and, and rental car hacks that if they travel, they travel around the country. Like the guy who is the CEO of this place, doesn't live here. He lives kind of an Austin kind of here is a test. It is the weirdest thing.

4 (13m 22s):
Okay. Well, when the Russians send nuclear missiles and we ended up having hand to hand combat with the Chinese or whatever, well, these fighting people gonna to do nothing.

2 (13m 32s):
I don't know how to do nothing. There'll be dead. No, no. But you and I are scrappy. Like we could figure it out. They're dead. And that's fine.

4 (13m 41s):
I always think of, I just said, I think like people used to hunt, you know, like w w where if our world is predicated on so much pretend and like, and like also just like this very thin margin of, well, it's all fine and good until the power grid goes out. It's all fine. And good until like, suddenly for whatever reason, there is just no internet,

2 (14m 3s):
Like, or they get hacked. Right,

4 (14m 6s):
Right. Yeah. It's all fine. And good until like everything that we put our hope hopes and dreams and faith into just doesn't work one day, because that's what happens with machines is they just, sometimes they write

2 (14m 17s):
And Lamont was saying, and I kind of agree with him that like, what he thinks is happening. So frantically the government is scrambling to get into crypto. Right. Frantically our government is like, we're going to have a fucking stake in this. So what he thinks is going to happen and like agree with him is that they're going to figure out a way to sabotage the crypto system and say, we, we now run the cryptosystem. He's like, I know it's a conspiracy theory, that kind of thing. But of course it's money. Right. So they're going to say, okay, okay. Like you guys are going to get screwed because someone's going to hack, you, let the government take over, we'll run crypto. And then of course,

4 (14m 54s):
Which takes away the main draw of crypto, which is that it's this currency that cannot be traced to everything. So the second there's any type of regulation that, that, and it's like, well, you might as well just be talking about dollars. Right. Because you know,

2 (15m 9s):
That's what they're going to do. So it's going to be really interesting to see how this plays out. We'll probably be dead, but that's okay.

4 (15m 14s):
Yeah. We'll probably be done. I'm watching this television show called severance. Oh,

2 (15m 19s):
Everybody loves severance.

4 (15m 21s):
Wow. Wow. Wow. It's it's woo. It's really something else. But what I love about it is it's kind of hard to explain, so I won't try to explain it, but there's suffice it to say the company that these people work for, the job that they do is they sit at these computer terminals and they there's just a screen full of numbers. And they have to put these digits into the correct bins at the bottom.

2 (15m 53s):
Okay.

4 (15m 54s):
Based on their feeling about the numbers, like these numbers are scary and these numbers are half. Yeah. It's so weird. Right? When I, when I see them, they're putting the numbers into this little bins in the bottom and I go cut. This is like my daughters, you know, like educational games. She has to do something like this. Well, it gets to the end of the season. And the they've, all this little department has leveled. The there's all this pressure on getting a certain quota by the end of the quarter. And it's, we don't, we're not gonna make it and we're not gonna make it.

4 (16m 35s):
We're not gonna make it at the last minute. They make it. And what making it looks like for them is that a pixelated cartoon character comes on and says like, basically you leveled up. So really it, I dunno if this is the point that they're trying to make, but it really looks like they're just playing a video game.

2 (16m 58s):
This is insane. I love it. It's the same.

4 (17m 2s):
It's really, really good. And I, and I reached out to all of the actors on there and seeing if anybody wants to be on our show, I got one person who was like, oh, that sounds interesting. I'm like, is that a yes and no, I never, I never heard anything back from her, but yeah, listen, humans are designed to work. So when you don't have to literally like, grow your own food and cut down your own wood, you have to find something to do. That feels work, work ish. And I feel like a lot of our industries are kind of work adjacent

2 (17m 43s):
And like, and like a lot of sorting into bins. Yeah.

4 (17m 50s):
You

2 (17m 50s):
See fucking bad vegan.

4 (17m 55s):
No, I was wondering if I should watch it.

2 (17m 57s):
Okay. Watch it. And we'll talk about it because whoa. It is, the Myles was a very frustrated with this documentary based on,

4 (18m 9s):
Oh, it's a documentary. Oh, I thought it was a tele. I thought it was a fictional show.

2 (18m 13s):
Oh, it they'll make a fictional show out of it. But it's a documentary about a woman who started a vegan restaurant and so much more in New York city. And it comes down to what we always said. And I'll wait until you watch it. But I, it just reinforces what we always talk about, which is if you have an unfulfilled, inner need from childhood, that shit will play out. I could trace this, her whole demise, her whole demise. And it's a whole crazy ass fucking story about this woman. Her whole demise comes down to the fact that Alec Baldwin did not pick her to date. Okay. That's it.

2 (18m 53s):
Okay.

4 (18m 54s):
Completely plausible. I completely understand that.

5 (19m 1s):
Let me run this by you.

4 (19m 9s):
I know my son got this part in a movie. And so the thing we wanted to run by you is I, Hm. So many things I get, I get stage moms. I understand why stage moms is a thing. When my son started getting into acting, he was five years

2 (19m 35s):
Old. Yeah. It was really young.

4 (19m 37s):
And my thing was, I don't want to be a stage mom. I don't want to be a stage mom. I don't want to be a stage mum, which was reinforced by every time I've ever been on set. There's always at least one really out of control stage mom. And I think I told the story in the podcast before, but one time we, we were in a, he was doing Gotham that showed Bathum and there was like a gaggle of kids in this scene. And this one boy, I was just, you know, whatever. I was striking up a conversation with him and I said, oh, do you, do you really want to be an actor? And he said, no, my father makes me do this. I want to be at school.

4 (20m 17s):
And it was just so

2 (20m 19s):
Like,

4 (20m 19s):
God, and I met a lot of kids. This was back when he was doing all just all background stuff. I met a lot of that's where you find the most stage moms when the kids are like that, the stakes are just, couldn't be lower. Right. You know, they're just doing background, extra work, which is all just to say, though, I've had to be in dialogue with myself about what my aspirations are about working in film and television and my frustrated aspirations. And I, you know, I've had to just be constantly talking to myself about making sure that this is what he wants and not what I want. And in the classic thing that always happens is when he gets an audition, if he doesn't feel like doing it, it just, it becomes this thing.

4 (21m 8s):
And I always say, you don't have to be an actor. You don't have to have an agent, but if you're going to be an actor and you're going to have an agent, you have to do the audition.

2 (21m 18s):
That's true.

4 (21m 19s):
And you have to work at it and you have, you have to work hard at it. And that thing is actually really hard. And it takes a lot of work that we just kind of overcame this obstacle for the audition for this movie, because I made him put in maximum effort. Usually I don't usually, I'm just like, well, it's his career, you know, it's his life. If he doesn't want to work on it, why am I going to spend, you know, my whole time? But I'm really encouraged him to work on it. And he really did. And he did really well. And so now we're waiting to hear, you know, whether or not he's gotten it, but the first night that this was a thing, I couldn't sleep. I was awake. Like, I mean, part of it is thinking about the logistics.

4 (22m 1s):
Like how will I live in LA for a month when I have two other kids. Right. But the other part of it is just, what is this going to mean for him to, what's going to be what's next and what's next and what's next. And what's next. So I've talked a lot of shit about stage moms in the past. And I just want to say, if you're listening to this in your stage, mom, I get it. I get, I get, you know, because maybe this was your hope and dream, but also maybe just, you put a lot of effort into when you're the mom of the kid who wants to do this, it's so much work for the mom or the dad was the case may too much. It's, it's scheduling babysitters when you have other kids

2 (22m 43s):
Driving

4 (22m 44s):
Into the city for auditions paying for headshots every year, because they change so much every year communicating with doing the cell. I had to learn. This is actually how I learned how to do I moving because I had to, you know, work, learn how to edit his self-tapes and stuff like that. So, but have you encountered stage moms? Oh,

2 (23m 7s):
That's a great question. Yes. And I feel like I totally understand how moms and dads get and caretakers get to be that way. And I think also to remember for me is that it comes from this genuine usually place to want to help and protect your kid. And, and also, and then you mix that in with your own aspirations, which I would have to, if I had a child that I was shoveling around and also, yeah, I would encounter that. So I think I get it. And I also know that like when I worked at casting and at PR and I loved it, but they would occasionally be like moms that would bring in their kids or dads, but usually it's moms.

2 (23m 57s):
Right. Of course, who bring in their kids that were desperate to get the kid into the face of the casting directors. So they'd hang around. They didn't want to ingratiate themselves to casting at the audition. They'd come into the office and, and, you know, to their credit of my bosses, PR casting, they were lovely. Like they, but, but they also had work to do so. It was like, these kids are just sort of standing there smiling. And the mom is like pushing them and we all, it was very uncomfortable and it doesn't actually work like what works is being professional on set, doing a great job in the room, being a nice kid and being a nice parent, but it just feels like, and we know this from being actors.

2 (24m 45s):
It just feels like you have to like, sort of ingratiate and push yourself into the faces of the people with power in order to get anywhere. So then there's like these really uncomfortable moments of like talking about nothing while we're trying to get work done in the office, especially like, yeah, they have a lot of work to do. So it was just, it was just very, and you'll see when we go to PR like it's all glass. So like, you can see what the casting directors are doing in the office. So you want to be in there because it looks really fun.

4 (25m 16s):
Right. And

2 (25m 18s):
Actors who are like, quote, special, get to go in there and say, hi, like I'm friends with the, with the casting directors is the, is the idea. I'm not saying I'm like someone is, and then they get to go. It's just like a really weird thing. And it's also, it's very hard to navigate and I get it too. We, we, we want to be liked and loved and picked and chosen. And it is a universal thing.

4 (25m 44s):
I want the same thing for our kids. Yeah. Yeah. Totally.

2 (25m 48s):
I don't. I've had never had anyone that has been bonkers, you know, but maybe, yeah. I never, yeah, never.

4 (25m 55s):
Yeah. I think really they're bonkers behavior. I think actually, probably the kids are the ones who absorbed the brunt of it, which is, you know, and also it's really hard to teach a kid about acting because you're, as we've said many times, you're, you're trying to figure out how to play a character when you don't even know who you are. I mean, that's really true for a kid and trying to teach them, it's supposed to be it's. Yes. It's pretend, but you're supposed to be sincere and no, you're not the character, but yes, you have to be there. It's a lot of mental gymnastics,

2 (26m 32s):
Impossible. And like, if you don't know how to communicate that to a kid, let alone, the kid know how to do it. It's a mess. And then you're just, it's just kind of a crap shoot. Like, especially when you wouldn't see that were two and three years old.

4 (26m 47s):
Oh, see, now that I can't

2 (26m 51s):
Was like, yeah, some kids are, I mean, it's just to me, I thought it was amazing, but I also didn't have an agenda. I'm trying to get shit done. Like the directors and the producers on the, everyone is trying to get shit done in the room. And I have a kid doesn't, you know, whatever the kid is literally three years old. So like, I thought it was amazing, but I, they it's, it's a nightmare.

4 (27m 15s):
Yeah. Did I ever tell you the story of when I taught drama to kindergarten?

2 (27m 21s):
I know you did, but I don't know.

4 (27m 24s):
I had this job at this school called head Royce in the bay area. I got a job teaching after-school drama to kindergartners. It might've been my very first teaching thing. No, but it was early on and I hadn't taught, I certainly hadn't taught like my full-time teaching job that I eventually had at a middle school, but not having children and not having taught. I thought we were just going to do a play, you know, like They were going to memorize their lines. I seriously thought I seriously picked a play.

2 (28m 5s):
What was it? Do you remember? Was it like fucking, wouldn't it be funny if it was like, you know,

4 (28m 10s):
Romeo and Juliet

2 (28m 11s):
Steel Magnolias or something like just like totally amazing.

4 (28m 15s):
And it was age appropriate because it, it, it turned out to have whatever it was. I can't remember. But it was also a children's book, which I, oh, oh yeah. Oh, sorry. I adapted a children's book.

2 (28m 29s):
Oh my God. Okay.

4 (28m 32s):
And the entire time we were working on it, it never occurred to me that they couldn't memorize their lives. I just kept being like, well, maybe by next week, they'll know it. My next week they'll know it until it came time to do the performance and all the parents came and I shit, you not, it didn't occur to me until all the parents were walking in. Every single one of them had a video camera. This is before cell phones that, oh my God, they are expecting a show. And I guess I was too. And they don't know, we don't have a shell.

2 (29m 7s):
It look like my God, this is brilliant.

4 (29m 10s):
I got to the point for awhile. I was like doing the knee. I was the narrator. Right. And, and then they was supposed to be saying their lines, but then they would never say their lines. So then basically what it amounts to is I just read the entire book. Would

2 (29m 26s):
They do

4 (29m 27s):
Well, the kids just stood there. And the middle of it, when kid in the middle of my, and of course the more anxious and, and terrible, I felt like the more forced and forced, I must have looked crazy. I wish I could say videos. I bet I looked like a complete lunatic and in the middle of it as, and I'm also getting louder and louder. It's like, I would love to, I'm sure those parents are erased, taped over those tapes, but I would love to see just frantic me and I'm getting read By the time it was over, I just went to the headmaster's office.

4 (30m 16s):
And I was like, I did a terrible job. You should never hire me again. This was a complete disaster. And they were like, yeah, maybe this isn't your thing.

3 (30m 39s):
Today on the podcast, we were talking to Joe, the seal, Joe is an actor and a writer and a content creator and a former Neo futurist. He has got a going on and he is lovely and charming and personable and a marketing genius. He has his own company. Now. He is all that. And the bag of chips as the kids used to say five years ago. And I hope you really enjoy our conversation with Joseph.

4 (31m 21s):
You still have that fabulous smile.

7 (31m 27s):
You were so sweet. It's so good to see both. Oh my goodness.

4 (31m 31s):
What you, what you don't have. What I remember is big hair. Oh, Well, you're a handsome bald bald man. So you can play.

7 (31m 42s):
Oh, thank you. Go on. Go on.

4 (31m 45s):
I will. I will. I will. But I'll start by saying congratulations. JoBeth seal. You survived theater school.

7 (31m 51s):
I did.

4 (31m 52s):
Yes. And you survived it with us mostly with bod. You guys are graduated in the same year, I think.

2 (31m 58s):
Yeah.

7 (31m 59s):
Yeah, we did. Yeah. Do you remember that year? We were in the same section, Johnny.

2 (32m 4s):
Here's what I remember about you. We went to a Halloween party together with my roommate with a non theater school, like my best friend, Sasha, who Gina knows Sasha and Carsey. And we went to a freaking Halloween party in the suburbs and you had the best costume ever. It was a robot. And you remember any of this? You look,

7 (32m 24s):
Oh my God. I don't know

2 (32m 25s):
Brilliance.

8 (32m 27s):
It

7 (32m 27s):
Was like, I was a robot. Wow.

2 (32m 29s):
Like a whole situation. And it was like, we had the best time, but it was like, we didn't know anybody. It was like in the suburbs. It was my friend.

4 (32m 37s):
Did he make

2 (32m 38s):
That? Yeah, it was all made. It was so good. Anyway, that's what I remember. That's the main thing that I remember being like, oh my God. His costume. Brilliant. So anyway, I do remember. I mean, I remember, yeah. I mean, remember bits and pieces. I remember that, like I thought you were like super nice. And also, yeah, that we all just were trying to figure it out. Like nobody knew what the hell was going on.

7 (33m 7s):
Yeah, no, I remember when you joined our section, we were so excited that like someone new was going to like join and we all knew of you, but we didn't know. And I remember that year, you were just like a breath of fresh air. You were just so direct and funny. And you know, I think at that point we were just getting a little tired and you just brought a lot of really beautiful energy into our sections.

2 (33m 36s):
Oh, the other thing I want to say before I forget is that I, when I was doing research on you, like just to catch up on you and stuff, there's other people with your name that, that some, some before like wild, like one, one guy, like a couple like therapists, couple has Lisa and Joe have your name and, and are like infomercial kind of P anyway, I just thought it was hilarious. And then there's another actor.

7 (34m 3s):
Yes. There's another actor in what had actually happened one year. It was, I was put in the DePaul, the theater school, alumni newsletter that I was on six feet under and all of this stuff. So people started reaching out to me and it was the other job.

4 (34m 20s):
That's funny. That's funny. I wonder about those alumni. So it's just, I mean, I guess you've answered the question is somebody scouring the trains or whatever, looking for names that they

2 (34m 32s):
Used to be John Bridges. And then I think also people submit themselves, which is so, I mean, I get it, but it's also like, I don't have time for that. I mean, like, I mean, not that I'm doing anything that fancy, but like, I, there's something weird about being like, Hey John Bridges, can you put me in the alumni news? I don't know. I'd rather be

4 (34m 55s):
Except for like your, but that's what it is. Right. That's what you have to do. That's what it's all about the network. I mean, I haven't ever done it either, but

2 (35m 6s):
I mean, I did it when I had a solo show because I thought, okay, in Chicago, maybe people will come, so I have done it, but I, I just,

7 (35m 14s):
Yeah, for promo, I think it might be helpful in some instances, but

2 (35m 19s):
Whatever it is

4 (35m 22s):
Actually the beginning you're from long island

7 (35m 25s):
And you have

4 (35m 26s):
Zero long island accent. Was that very intentional?

7 (35m 30s):
Well, it's so funny. You mentioned that because I think that was such a big thing my first year. And it really kind of changed the way I speak, because I felt like I was a fast talking like long island kid. And my speech really slowed down that first and second year. Cause I was so conscious of it. So the, after that first year, I think, you know, yoga between yoga and all the voice and speech stuff, like I was like standing up straight and talking like standard American, like, you know, whatever that was that we learned.

4 (36m 5s):
Like you had to do that in your, not what, even when you weren't on stage.

7 (36m 10s):
I mean, that was, that was a thing I think back then, I didn't really understand the distinction. I felt like I, I, I had to speak that way on stage and then it just transferred over to my real life. Also, you know, looking back, I was like, oh, you know, I wish I would have been able to make the distinction in my real life that I don't have to speak like this, but it's hard to learn something and practice it. Like I couldn't just practice that in class. It would have just been too difficult, but I started speaking a lot slower just because I was really conscious of the all sounds I was making, like all the sounds and, and I, it was pretty thick. I don't know. I don't know if you all knew me back then, but it was, there were some words I had never heard pronounced.

4 (36m 52s):
Well, I don't recall you as, I mean, I was surprised to learn that you were from long island and looking at your history because yeah. It seemed, it seemed like you had erased it. So were you the only person from, from New York in your class?

7 (37m 10s):
No. There were a cup there. Ed Ryan was also from New York. Yeah, but he was from Scarsdale, I think. And then I w I might've been the only one from long island, at least in my class that I remember.

4 (37m 23s):
And did you have DePaul as your, I mean, is that, was that the school you wanted to go to or your safety?

7 (37m 30s):
Oh my God. I was all about NYU. I was all about it. And then even before I went to, you know, before I started applying for colleges, my senior year, I went to a summer program at NYU. And at the time there was something called musical theater, works conservatory. And I spent a whole summer doing like conservatory training and, you know, to earn college credit. And it was such a great program at the time too, because we took classes during the day. And then the evening we saw shows and did all this cultural stuff. So after that experience, I was, I just wanted to go to NYU and I just loved it. I loved the city and then I didn't get, I didn't get in.

7 (38m 16s):
And then I was deciding between DePaul and Emerson and I visited both schools. And when I went to visit DePaul, I know you all had Bradley Walker. And I stayed, he probably doesn't remember this, but I totally stayed with him in the dorms. And the other weird kind of quirky thing I remember was I, I went to his dorm room and he was eating dog food. Like he was eating out of a box

2 (38m 44s):
And wait,

7 (38m 45s):
Wait, yeah, hear me out here. So he's like, do you want some? And I was like, okay, sure. You know, peer pressure. So I ate the dog food, like out of the box, it was like dry dog food. And he's like, yeah, it's just, we like how it tastes and it's cheap. And then like, after he told me it was just like cereal and they just like, say like, they put this cereal in the dog food box anyway,

4 (39m 9s):
Like

7 (39m 11s):
Quirky things that I remember about that weekend.

2 (39m 15s):
So here's the thing as a 46 year old tired ass lady. I'm like, who the fuck has time to be switching foods into different modifiers. I can barely get my shoes on 18 year olds who are in college. Like the good quirky marketing. It reminds me of something they might've done. And say that movie with Janine Gruffalo and Ben Stiller, whatever that movie was that they did about gen X, whatever, like reminds me of something like, Hey, let's switch the food into the, but anyway. Okay. So was he nice to you?

7 (39m 54s):
Oh my God. He really sold me on the school and not, he wasn't trying to sell me on the school. He's like, this is where we do this. And he took me on a tour of the theater school and, you know, I loved that it was in an elementary school and I visited in June, which is like a beautiful time of being in Chicago. And I mean, after that experience, I was just completely sold and I, it was cool. Cause I went by myself like my mom, just let me just go to all these places to visit and like got off the, you know, I took the train, I took the L to the school and everything and, and it was, it was cool. I felt like it was a really good fit. So it worked out nicely.

4 (40m 33s):
You did a bunch of things though. After theater school, you moved back to New York and got very involved in theater. So tell us about that epoch.

7 (40m 42s):
Yeah, I mean, I think I did a couple of shows in Chicago and I had major FOMO of what was going on in New York and I felt like I was missing out. And I think, you know, I had audition for a lot of stuff in Chicago and I just didn't wasn't landing things. And then, you know, when I moved to New York, I wanted to focus more on directing and writing. And I did an intern. I did a couple of internships, but I did want to ensemble studio theater. And that was super helpful because as part of the internship, you were in an actor director writing lab and yeah, and it was, I think the first time I had been in a place where you can kind of cross over and do different things.

7 (41m 27s):
And also the, we had a, a lab director who really kind of just taught me, like how to like give feedback to myself and how to give feedback to others. Like the big thing that she would always ask is like, after we would present some kind of work, she would just say like, what do you need to know in order to move forward with the work? Like, what is important to you? And we really, you know, we had a small group and we really experimented within that. And then after the internship, some of us kind of like stuck together. And I mean, at the time too, there were, there were a ton of interns. There was like over 20 and they gave us the keys to the theater.

7 (42m 7s):
And we had like, there were a couple of theaters there. So we would do our shows like on the top floor of, of, of the theater there on 52nd street and, you know, hang out after and drink beer. And like, I mean, something that probably is not happening today, but it was, it was a really co like a good landing pad for me. So just to meet other people.

2 (42m 28s):
Okay. So if we take it back a little bit, like when you work, cause I'm curious about that. So like, you didn't have FOMO about LA, right? Like moving to LA when everyone moved to LA or did you like when you graduated from DePaul and I asked, because now you're here obviously in Southern California, but also because it sounds like New York to you based on you, the summer program you did and stuff was sort of the, like in your brain, like the utopia Mecca for actors, but you, so you felt a FOMO, but like showcase wise. Cause I love the good showcase story where you focused on New York, like, cause you did we, did we go to, no, we didn't go to New York, but we

7 (43m 7s):
Did know.

2 (43m 8s):
So how, how did you make the choice to go? Not to LA? Like how did that go down?

7 (43m 13s):
Yeah. I mean, we took a, that film class our last year with Gerard. I don't know if you remember him.

2 (43m 20s):
Fuck.

7 (43m 21s):
Yeah. We took a film class. Yeah. We all, we all did. I think that's what his name was and that

2 (43m 29s):
Class.

7 (43m 30s):
Yeah. We took a film class where we did a scene on camera and I, the it call experience was like horrific.

2 (43m 39s):
Oh, I remember it was bad for all of them.

7 (43m 43s):
I have like a little breakdown after, cause I was like, I don't, I just felt very, you know, self-conscious, I mean, we had spent like years doing theater and I never really looked at myself. And then I was not like a theater snob at all. Like I was willing to do anything. I would do voice or do film, but I just didn't feel comfortable with the camera at all. And I think by the last year or two, I really started to get more interested in like experimental theater and performance art. And I felt there was more of that in New York at the time or maybe I was just unaware of it in Chicago and I wanted to lean in that direction.

7 (44m 25s):
And that's another reason I kind of went to New York also.

2 (44m 28s):
Yeah.

7 (44m 29s):
Yeah. I wasn't seeing that as much. Like I remember there were some companies in Chicago that did some really beautiful pieces, like all the Mary Zimmerman pieces I loved. And I was like, Ugh, that was like, all those were like the Northwestern kids who were in those shows.

2 (44m 45s):
Oh, I remember what metamorphosis happened. And everyone was like, we all want it to be in metamorphosis. And none of us got in because she of course chose Northwestern kids because that's who she taught and that's where she went. Right. And so whatever.

7 (44m 59s):
Yeah. And I ended up seeing that in New York anyway, when it was there. So it was like anything like that would eventually go to New York to,

4 (45m 6s):
And you did a lot, you worked a lot in New York theater, you worked at roundabout and you, and you worked for the Neo futurists, which I love that. I mean, I, that show too much light makes the baby go blind, which is now called infinite infinite wrench, wrenches that it's called.

7 (45m 23s):
Yeah.

4 (45m 24s):
I love that show. Tell me everything about being a part of that.

7 (45m 28s):
Yeah. You know, at that I first saw that show in Chicago when I was like right outside of, no, I saw my first year when I was 17 and then someone from DePaul had like a friend of mine had brought me to it and I, I loved it and then kind of forgot about it. And then I auditioned in Chicago for it when I was 21 and I was just not ready for it. And then when I moved to New York, I was there for maybe two or three years. I discovered that they had had started the show there. And I mean, that really kind of shifted so much for me. I, well, for one thing, it was like, it was so great to meet a group of people who were passionate about the same thing, like the aesthetic, you know, passion about being ensemble.

7 (46m 19s):
And that show is like so challenging and fun and stressful, but also like super rewarding. And also at the same time, you know, it kind of changed the dynamic I had as an actor and artists with the audience, because it's so rare as an actor that you get to just like be yourself on stage. It's like rarely happens at all. So to on a weekly basis, just stand in front of an audience and like be yourself. And then, and then also think about like what you want to say and how you want to say it. And you know, like through movement or puppetry or through humor or through earnestness or do something concise conceptual or abstract or, you know, and I did some like crazy shit,

2 (47m 10s):
Like what was your, what was your favorite cause like what I'm noticing and what as you're talking, what I'm remembering about you is that yeah. Like literally you, you, my experience of you and when we knew each other back in the day, was that yet you did not, you, you, you wanted to sort of push the envelope and step outside of the bounds of what we were learning at the theater school. Like you just had an experimental, like heart about you. So I guess my question is like onstage. What do you remember about to my, about the Neo futurist that like really sticks to you? Like performance wise? Like what was so special? Like when did she

7 (47m 48s):
So many things? I mean, I think, well, the craziest thing I did was take a shit on stage with someone

2 (47m 57s):
I never heard about this.

7 (47m 60s):
It was actually a very like poignant play about like writing. It was with my mentor who was, and then you have you trust and we have the same name and we both, the play was actually called untitled number two. And we had this thing in common before we would perform, we would always like have to take a pill. So I just wrote this play about that experience. And to me, like he was, you know, offered me so much advice and so many, you know, really kind of mentored me through being a new, a futurist. And so I wrote this play in homage to him and, you know, as a gift and a sense. So at the end we like produced.

7 (48m 41s):
We like, we were actually, we put in a bucket and then at some point we, you know, we turned the bucket over and then, which was really hard to do. Cause I have to like, hold my poo in all day. And I was like, it was not sure what was going to come out at a certain, but I also did other

2 (48m 54s):
So. Yeah. Yeah. But I guess because, okay, so like the old summit stage fright I think is about being a failure for me on stage, like being embarrassed, being shamed, being all the things, right? Like that's what makes me panic on stage. Right? So this is an experience where you literally are like showing your insides, like take excrement, like on stage for the sake of art and for the sake of, but like, was it freeing?

7 (49m 26s):
Yeah. I mean, there was, I really never forget when I first run that I did my good friend, Erica, who I met during the new futurist and who I'm still really good friends with now. She said to me, she's like, if you fuck up, you have to let it go because you'll ruin the moment that you're in. And the next moment. So there are so many times, I mean, it was, we would learn things like the day before, the day of, and it was inevitable that we were going to fuck up. So all of that perfectionism, you had to kind of leave at the door. And, and that moment I remember sometimes like being on stage and being like, I have a line coming up. I don't even know what that line is.

7 (50m 9s):
And here you are. And then you just kind of like, say whatever comes out of your mouth and it's just becomes part of the show. So it was really freaky for me, who I felt like at school, I was not a perfectionist, but I did do a lot of homework to make things go. Right. I had to just let, I mean, another moment to, I, we did this like dance number where we had, we had these masks, there weren't masks. They were like plastic plates with smiling faces on them. And we didn't get a chance to rehearse the dance number before we went on. So I was beat backstage and someone was telling me like what the dancing

2 (50m 48s):
Score.

7 (50m 52s):
So I had my glasses on, like with this plate pressed against me and I hardly could see. And I was just like, all right, I'm just going to like follow the person in front of me and just see what happens. And then I think that's on YouTube somewhere of me like,

4 (51m 7s):
Oh, well, they wait. So I'm glad that you started to speak to being a perfectionist in undergrad because it wasn't until you use that word about perfectionism that I, that rung a bell. Oh yeah. You were perfectionists or, or maybe you were just one of these people that, you know, like we've talked to before who took theater school rarely, seriously, and maybe didn't care for people who didn't. I don't know if that's true about you or not, but how have you wrestled with your perfectionism as a performer and as a writer?

7 (51m 42s):
Yeah, I mean, I think what was school? I had like a very different experience. My first two years, compared to the second two years, I was certainly a big nerd my first two years. And I wish I had it cause when I knew this was coming up and I couldn't find it, I think it's at my sister's place someplace, but I have a journal that I kept used to write after every acting class. And I would write like what happened and then I'd give myself some like insights and recommendations for like next time I still have it. It's just, I have to find it. And when I do I'll, I'll, I'll send you. Cause I think I was, it was, I definitely documented everything that happened.

7 (52m 25s):
Like breakdowns, like being really angry, being really happy, like all that kind of stuff.

2 (52m 32s):
<inaudible> coffee table book, like, like, like acting notes from a teenager, like, like, or like, I don't know. I think it could be really great, but, and with pictures, cause you're an artist the whole, anyway,

7 (52m 49s):
I will, I will scan a good journal entry and I'll send it to both of you when I find it. But I think, you know, writing that really helped me, I think thrive the first two years was like the writing aspect of it and reflecting on it. And I think in terms of what I do now, like I need breaks and that's how I handle like dealing with perfectionism. Now I sometimes like I've just kind of started to develop a writing practice the past two years. And I know when it's time to stop. And usually it's when I stop, I know I need to like go for a walk and reflect or just let it go.

7 (53m 29s):
And then like,

2 (53m 30s):
'cause, that's what your friend Erica told you. It's like, you have to, we have to just let it go at a certain point in order to not because what happens right. As fear begets, fear, begets perfectionism. So on stage, if something goes awry, since we're all artists, we can relate, like if something goes awry and you stay stuck in the earth, wryness you really miss out on what's coming next. And also you're destined to fuck up. What's coming next. So that letting go for you, it sounds like it's really important in order to move on now, even not on stage. Like, and so you, you say like writing and walking helps you let go and you've realized that like to move on.

2 (54m 10s):
Yeah.

7 (54m 11s):
Yeah. And I it's so funny. We were talking about letting go. Cause when I auditioned for the Neos, we had to write a play about our biggest challenge. And to me it was letting go and I wrote this play, well, we didn't say any words, but we, there was a paper shredder on stage. And then I wrote out like a word or two on a piece of paper and then like put it through the shredder. And then we gave like, we held out pens or markers to the audience and then like the audience could come up and write something and then shred it. And it was like very powerful. Cause like some people would write like, you know, my, you know, my ex-boyfriend or like envy or, you know, last seasons, like fashion collection or whatever it is, you know, that they wanted to let go of.

7 (54m 59s):
But I think to me that is something that's still, you know, resonates of like how, how do I let go? You know, like through meditation, through like the walking for me is a meditation and that's, that's usually like, it's a big part of my process just to take the time, you know, to take the time between creation, I guess.

4 (55m 20s):
What have you learned that you've had to let go in terms of how you saw yourself as an artist when you started school, versus when you came out, like in the time that you've been able to reflect? What, what I mean? Cause we, we had lots of ideas about our spas and I had lots of ideas about ourselves and who we were as artists and whoever people. And most of those were all completely, they were wrong. So, so this podcast has been a process of letting go of some of those antidotes. What's it been like for you?

7 (55m 53s):
Yeah, I mean a big thing for me at school I remember was I know I've listened to a ton of episodes and I feel like I was really at war with myself. You know, I, the criticism from the teachers wasn't as big of a deal as the, as the criticism that I gave myself. Like I, I never, there was no self validation at all. Like even when I did something, well, I never told myself I, there was always something wrong. And I think that has been a big part of my adulthood is just learning to give myself a gold star and to self validate and then also to learn, to understand permission, to get feedback.

7 (56m 44s):
And you know, I think that was something that was always a little challenging at theater school too, was, you know, I like, you know, the, the lab director that I mentioned earlier at EST, who would say like, what do you need to know in order to move forward? So often at school we weren't in control of the feedback that we got. So I think sometimes it was really challenging for me when I was like, I'm not ready for all of this or I don't need to know that. Why are you telling me that now? Or, you know, we couldn't, I couldn't control any of that. And maybe I needed to let go of that. And I did have a little bit of a habit and, and a little reputation for walking out of class.

7 (57m 32s):
Yeah. And it was, it was something I had to address and something, a lot of teachers talk to me about. And I mean, often it was because I was bored or just like needed a break, or I was like, I didn't want to like watch someone or whatever it was. And

2 (57m 46s):
I think it's really bold. Like what the fuck, man? I wish the one time I did that, I, I like got in big trouble for it. And like, but like whatever the reason is you were on some level trying to take care of yourself. Right. And so good for you. Like, fuck that. I don't know. I like it. I probably would be like, oh, oh, that's awesome. And secretly I'm like, oh, the audacity, the amazing audacity of Joe to walk out and inside. I'm probably like, I wish I could do that. But anyway, so

7 (58m 20s):
Yeah, I mean, to me it was, it was self care in a way. And that was before we knew anything about that. And you know, when I think of like what I was going through at the time too, was it was such an emotional time for me, like for so many reasons. And, you know, like, you know, being away from home and coming out of the closet and like, you know, like all the money struggles I had and like, I, you know, it just kind of gave me, I was just learning how to take care of myself. And then on top of all those things, like studying drama, like, okay, this is the perfect time to study drama now, you know, and even like doing all the things that we did, like, especially the movement stuff always had kind of profound effect on me.

7 (59m 8s):
Cause we were like retraining how to the nervous system, that sense of like freeing our natural voice and doing all these things. So I was really emotional, like the first two years a lot. And I would just leave to kind of like collect my thoughts and not like have a major breakdown in class or dumb about something that yeah.

4 (59m 25s):
To modulate. Right. Because that's what you, what you definitely have no control over is modulating the flow of feedback because it's not just feedback from your teachers. We're getting feedback from our peers. And sometimes you'd get feedback from peers that you didn't really respect them. So you were like, I'm not sure what to, I'm not sure what to make of this.

2 (59m 42s):
What's becoming clear. Is that based on what you experienced after that with the lab is that we needed a feedback class. Like we needed a literal class of how to give and receive feedback at the theater school would have been fucking phenomenal.

7 (59m 58s):
Oh my God. I know it wasn't until years later when I was a Neo that we learn, the, the show was on, I think east fourth street and right next to his New York theater workshop. And they do the Liz Lurman feedback method, which I love. And I'm like, oh my God, that was really a beginning point for me because then it just to follow that structure is brilliant. Like, just start with what you were struck by. I don't need your opinion right away on what to change. Look, just tell me what you were struck by what moments did you enjoy? What, you know, what questions do you have and then, or asking questions yourself. And I mean, maybe the school does that now, but I think that was really, that was really big for me.

7 (1h 0m 39s):
I, for any artist, whether you're a dancer or

2 (1h 0m 41s):
No matter whether you're a child getting feedback from your parent or a spouse, getting feedback from your other spouse or whatever, it, it, it works in all levels. And I think that what it does though, is disrupts the hierarchy of the power in an institution. And so nobody likes that. I mean, really like teachers need to feel like they're in control, right. Instead of what struck me, let's stay curious, let's stay open. That's not how conservatories are made. Like that's not the whole goal of them. And then maybe I hope they're changing, but like, yeah. Oh, I just love that you haven't had that experience after school with both the, the, the work in New York and the, the ensemble work you did and the Neo futurists sort of sh it sounds like it's really shaped your work moving forward as an artist, right?

7 (1h 1m 34s):
Yeah. I mean, it was really, I have to say, I mean, after that moment of being a Neo futurists, I was like, I don't think I can play a character ever again. I don't really know it can happen cause I, it just didn't, I, it really changed the dynamic I had with an audience. And I, I guess I didn't want to go back to what it was before also being a Neo. I had to let go of really all the things I had learned at school, in a sense, I mean, all I could really use was like maybe some of the voice and speech work we had done, but I, I mean, yeah, it really kind of shifted things for me, but being in that ensemble was great.

7 (1h 2m 14s):
Cause I, I, you know, we really learned how you really need to learn how to give and take and to, and, but also be an advocate for your own work because every week, you know, you had to kind of bring in something and you had to pitch it. You had to sell it to the five or six people who were deciding what was in the show that week. So it was, I think it's an experience that I, they do workshops, but like, I think everyone should do a workshop in that way because the show itself is living newspaper. So you have to think of like, what is relevant right now? What's relevant to this audience what's relevant in this moment, you know? And how can I bring that on stage?

4 (1h 2m 55s):
So wait, so you had an interest young in musical theater, but did you follow that? Have you remained interested in musical theater?

7 (1h 3m 6s):
No. You know what? I know you all have talked about the brochure and so I completely read the brochure wrong when I chose DePaul. Well, a couple of things I had for musical theater, I wanted to get a BFA musical theater. And there aren't a lot of schools that offer that. So I, you know, when I didn't get into some NYU, I was like, okay, well, what other school? So I had to be flexible with that. But the brochure I remember for DePaul the last year we took ensemble class. And I actually thought that that meant that we were in a theater company.

7 (1h 3m 48s):
So I not only thought that the, like, after you graduated, you're part of an ensemble theater company. So I told everyone, I'm like, I'm going to DePaul. And then I'm in a theater company. And then I thought that like, that was one crazy thing. And then also the movement stuff, which was, I actually really loved, like all the movements that we did. Like, I'm a big, like I'm, I was a big fan of moving to music. Like that was my jam at school. So I thought I was going to be getting some dancing training there, but I kind of, I did let it go. Certainly like, as the years of the

2 (1h 4m 26s):
Rest of the school, were you in any

7 (1h 4m 29s):
I wasn't and I really wanted to be, I, we did like Peter pan one year. And Were you in that?

2 (1h 4m 38s):
No, but Eric was saying was Susan Lee and she talks about it on the podcast.

7 (1h 4m 45s):
I heard that one. Yeah, yeah, Yeah. But yeah, no, I didn't do any musical theater stuff. I did love all the, we learned like period dance, which I was a big fan of, like, that was

2 (1h 4m 57s):
Me too. There was a fucking structure and it was like slow. And like, there was a way to do it. I remember the Elizabethan situation maybe, or like there was like this dance with Romeo and Juliet situation. And I loved that. I felt like there were actual steps we could take, there was a pacing to it.

4 (1h 5m 21s):
And you knew if you got it or not. Right. Like it was, it wasn't nebulous. Like you either understood how to do it or you didn't.

7 (1h 5m 27s):
Yeah. I thought I was like, I love the ritual of it. And it was, it was great to learn about history in that way too. And I liked all the Labon stuff that we did with Betsy, I thought,

2 (1h 5m 38s):
Is that the buoyancy and the, this and the, that.

7 (1h 5m 42s):
Yeah. I loved all of that stuff.

2 (1h 5m 44s):
Yeah.

7 (1h 5m 45s):
I mean, it was, you know, it was physically challenging too. We, I remember that thing we did with it was called like chaos, where you had to like go crazy. And

4 (1h 5m 55s):
I don't remember that.

7 (1h 5m 57s):
Yeah.

2 (1h 5m 57s):
It was crazy. And I remember I got such a stiff neck. I had to go to the emergency Because we were going crazy. And the next day I was like, I think I broke my neck, but I didn't break my head. So I had to go to that. And they were like, what did you do where he's like at a headbanging concert? I was like, no, it's a theater school now.

4 (1h 6m 23s):
Oh, we got another one. We got another theater,

2 (1h 6m 27s):
Chaos lady. I was like, I can't move. Yeah.

4 (1h 6m 31s):
Okay. But wait, so tell us about Susan Laurie parks, 365 plays and 365 days.

7 (1h 6m 39s):
Yeah. So that was, we, the Neos were given a handful of S of days for our scripts from that. And then as an ensemble, we were tasked with like interpreting it in any way that we wanted to. So it was cool to like, do a show at the public. And I remember we did one piece called FedEx to my ex where we had, like, we used actual FedEx boxes, like maybe like 50 or 60 of them. And we, we had letters on them or words and like kind of configured them to, to give messages out to the audience on these boxes.

7 (1h 7m 24s):
So I love that experience just cause we, as an ensemble, get to LA to celebrate this playwright with other like theater companies from, I think it was from, from all over the place. And it felt, again, like another professional experience, something that we didn't really get a chance to do, because the show that we did on a weekly basis was like on knew sports street at like 11 o'clock at night, you know? And this was more of a, like, you know, a different audience for us, which wasn't,

2 (1h 7m 53s):
When did you stop working with, is it like once a Neil always said, Neil, can you stop pack in and do stuff? Or like, how does it work?

7 (1h 8m 1s):
You can. Yeah. So the, I was like a regularly scheduled Neo for about two years or so. And then I jumped in to do the show at other times. And like we did a pride show that I would do often, or I would come in and do a run. And then we also had primetime shows. So I was involved in like two or three prime time shows as either a performer or assistant director or a collaborator in some way. And I did that up until I did some marketing for the company. I did that up until I moved to LA. And even my first year in LA, I did a project at here art center with my, one of my theater heroes chucked me that I went back to to, to see.

7 (1h 8m 50s):
So, but yeah, when I moved here, I kind of just decided to let, let that go.

2 (1h 8m 60s):
They're always themes that emerged with people's lives when they come on the show. So for you then stop and starting, like ed Ryan's is being interrupted and yours is like letting things go. So when did you arrive in LA?

7 (1h 9m 13s):
I moved here. It's been five years. So 2017 or so. And you know, I finally feel like now I'm kind of getting settled. I mean, I'd go back to New York a lot just to hang out and spend time there. And I work remotely. So I'm able to like go there and like work for a couple of weeks. I've learned not to stay too, too long. Cause last summer I was there for six weeks and I was like, oh, I feel like I'm in my old life.

4 (1h 9m 42s):
How do you satisfy? If you still have a craving for performance, how do you set it? Because now you have your own company you're self-employed, which is awesome. How do you, do you have to contend with a need to perform and how do you

7 (1h 10m 0s):
Yeah, well recently, I mean, I've been working on these personal essays or I've been working on some personal essays that I've been, you know, just kind of mulling over for a while. And then recently I did audio recordings of them, which kind of brought back a lot of things for me. I've never done that before. So I like it though. And I kind of got the idea. I went to see David Sedaris, like perform. And I was like, this guy has like a really good idea. Like he writes these essays, he performs them in front of an audience. He gets feedback from the audience makes adjustments. And he is in sense, like in a sense of performer and a writer. And I love, I love that model and I think, you know, other people do it too.

7 (1h 10m 45s):
And I think that's something that perhaps I'm aspiring to next is to be able to like write these essays and like share my stories in it. Doesn't have to be like, just reading it in front of an audience, but maybe in an interesting way. So it's kind of almost Neo futurists in a way, cause that's what we did during that show, but I guess it's not, you know, there's no race against the clock there and it's, you know, and it's longer than two minutes.

2 (1h 11m 13s):
Yeah. And I think that there's, it's interesting. Like there's different. What I'm noticing about your story is like the, that your art has sort of just taken and maybe this is the way it always is for all of us, but different incarnations at different times. And now is the time where you're exploring like audio and storytelling in a different way. But yeah, you're a storyteller through and through. And I think your, your, your content strategy is that what you have a con, like what, what do you do tell us what you do. Cause I, I saw your website. I want to know what that means.

7 (1h 11m 47s):
Yeah. So I, if someone asks, I say I'm a marketing consultant and manager, and then if someone asks, well, what does that mean? And I say, oh, okay, well I'm a content strategist. So I help service-based businesses develop content to generate leads and to promote their services. So what that, how,

2 (1h 12m 7s):
And as you get into it, know I'm selfishly like this is sounds fantastic. Like I'm always curious how artists then go into a field where they can get paid to do.

7 (1h 12m 20s):
Yeah. Yeah. Well, it started with the Neos because as part of the, as an ensemble member, we had to do some administrative tasks. So I was on the marketing committee, which basically meant like handing out postcards and maybe some promotional events. And then I, and that's what that's when like Facebook first came out, we were like promoting our show on Facebook. And then I went actually back to school, I went to fit and I studied marketing and advertising. Yeah. And then I even, like, I interned at Esquire magazine and like, I thought I wanted to work at a magazine, but then I realized I wanted to work at a magazine, like in the eighties, like I wanted to work at like interview or something

2 (1h 13m 8s):
Like,

7 (1h 13m 8s):
Oh, I love sassy. I remember that. Yeah. So then after that experience, then I, yeah, I graduated the year, the like the market crashed and like 2009 and then I started freelancing and then my first gig was like at a restaurant, like creating content for them. And then I started doing non-profit arts management work, like working at theaters. And then I went back to doing freelance stuff. So I, to me though, all the stuff that I, I consult with folks, like all the information I give them is based on all the stuff I learned at this company called organization called art, New York it's Alliance of resident theaters.

7 (1h 13m 51s):
And it's all audience development work. Like how do you develop an audience? How do you, you know, what tactics do you use to reach like a core connected and unconnected audience? So I use that kind of that fee theatrical, like, you know, marketing framework with, with my theater clients, you know, and it works really well.

2 (1h 14m 14s):
And then why do you think people hire you? Like, what do you bring? I'm like, this is turning into like a business development meeting. What, what do you have that people like, I guess is what I'm

7 (1h 14m 27s):
Yeah, I think a couple of things. One, I definitely have a New York sensibility. Like I work with a lot of urgency, which a lot of people in LA I think really appreciate. And then, you know, also that I have a strap, like an approach to the work and you know, one of the things I value is like the idea of good, better, best like,

2 (1h 14m 49s):
Oh, wait.

7 (1h 14m 50s):
Yeah. So with, with I say this a lot to my clients, I even have a little like sticker collection I made that was like a little sticker on it, but good, better. Best is just a way of like, again, not to let perfect be the enemy of goods to like say, Hey, we have this thing that needs to happen. What is the good version of this look like? What can we, what can we make happen today or tomorrow? What is the best version of this look like? Can we start with good and then work towards best? So that's one kind of approach that I have. And then I'm also, I'm a strategist, but I'm also a creator. So, so often people will hire a strategist and then they're like, okay, do the things I say, and then there's no one to do it.

7 (1h 15m 31s):
And then, so I usually say, okay, well here's the strategy and this is, this is the, these are the deliverables. This is the calendar I've made to like to, to send it out to the world. And I think a lot of people like that, I actually do the work and then I create the strategy for it as

2 (1h 15m 47s):
Interesting. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Okay.

4 (1h 15m 51s):
The thing that you said about, I never wanted to play a character again, that keeps, that keeps running through, through my head and to me, what that translates to is maybe something also that I feel, which is the real stuff that's really interesting is about. I mean, I guess it's, <inaudible>, it's about, it's about me and it's about my experience and how I'm, how I'm encountering the world. And that's where I'm best able to like, get my juice. Did you have that at theater school where you, were you more in the character phase of like, let me just try on these personas and see who I am, try to figure out who I am from that.

7 (1h 16m 30s):
Yeah. I mean, definitely all the roles that I got cast in were like characters. Like I, my, I have a, you know, I was kind of the character actor. I was told that too. And you know, I had moments in school where, you know, and I love Phyllis. Phyllis was such a nurturing, like presence for me at the time. And I think like she really encouraged me to have the creativity, to see myself in a different way, which I think is more important than anything. Oh God, I forgot the question. Where were you,

2 (1h 17m 11s):
What was, did you like, you know, we talk now about, I think this is what I'm getting from what Gina said was like, we talk now about how we are like, there's no more, we don't want to play characters anymore because like our, our experience and especially what you're saying, like our, our experience with an audience is like authentic when we're being a part of ourselves. So like at the theater school, did you feel like you were just, we were just had to like play to put something on we, could you not, did you feel like you could be yourself at the theater school, I guess, or no way

7 (1h 17m 44s):
Like in performance or in the classroom? Yeah. In the classroom. I definitely felt like I was able to, I, I was pretty bold, I think in, in class and a little punky at times. And I remember once when we were doing Shakespeare scenes, I was like, I want to play Juliet. And actually you all did a session with Noel who I reconnected with after like 20 years. And now we chat on the phone and stuff. So grateful, so grateful for that. But, you know, I think, and they did allow that to happen. I even remember in Dr.

7 (1h 18m 27s):
Bella's class, like we had to do the scene from the glass menagerie, and then it did the scene. I also did with Noel where I was like, let's make a giant menagerie of glass and that that'll be our set. And so we like put all these chairs on top of each other and tables and, and I remember, so I think there was some freedom to, to do that in performance. Maybe not so much because I think I didn't underst I was learning what the role was between director and actor. And I wanted to be more of a collaborator. And that's always when I, but you know, butt heads with people, especially maybe the student directors where I was like, I don't understand why I'm wearing a turtleneck.

7 (1h 19m 6s):
Like, why do I have, like, I once played this like philosopher and he was a real punk. And I was like, he should be in like a punk outfit, but I looked like Steve jobs, you know? And I, you know, It was a play called life during war time. Yeah. And I so remember, like having those moments where I, and this is exactly what the Neos do is like they, they throw ideas back and forth to each other collaborate. And I just realized that I wasn't going to be able to do that if I had a traditional, if I was a traditional actor. I mean maybe in some instances that works where you can have those conversations, but so often I think it's not the case.

2 (1h 19m 49s):
Yeah. No. And I I'm so grateful. You found some outlets for your creativity that really spoke to you because I feel like a lot of people, we talk to myself included. There's like this gap of not finding your place for like 20 years and then finally finding it and realizing, oh, I found it, but I'm now 45 years old and have student debt or whatever. So you, and, and you found a place, it sounds like an artistic home for a while, which is so great that I feel like a lot of us never find. Right. I don't feel like I ever found an artistic home as a theater performer, particularly.

2 (1h 20m 29s):
So, which is, brings me back to the brochure, which is what you wanted when you saw that brochure was like a place to belong. Post-graduation was an ensemble to belong to and you found it. I mean, you didn't find it at DePaul in the brochure, but you found it in New York, which is fantastic. And then I guess, do you ever have dreams of doing it again? Like, do you in LA, like, do you have dreams of starting like a Neos in LA?

7 (1h 20m 58s):
Yeah. I don't think I would do that, but I have to say there were some projects that I've done over the years. Do you all remember Stephanie? <inaudible> Stephanie <inaudible> yeah. I just saw her.

2 (1h 21m 12s):
Yes. Now the name, there's two different names that might get the name. The name is familiar. Yeah.

7 (1h 21m 18s):
I just saw her this, this past weekend. Cause I was in San Francisco and like she did this project that a bunch of DePaul people did. It was a sock puppet version of Showgirls that was in Chicago and New York. I think they even brought it to LA and like Jason, Dennis, Zach was in it and I was in a, in Kelly, Holden who's.

2 (1h 21m 42s):
Yeah.

7 (1h 21m 43s):
And I love doing stuff like that. I just love like taking a piece of something and having like some funny late night parody of, of something. Like, I really enjoy that work where it's, it's a situation where people are like drinking beer and there's some audience engagement or interaction. So I think if there was a project like that, I think I would kind of jump in. And I, I thought of that particular show because it was such a fun experience with other DePaul people. Well, one of the things I wanted to say to you all too, was like, I love that you're doing this. Cause I feel like first it's like no easy feat to put together a podcast, but you are both like creating and helping cultivate community that I think I missed.

7 (1h 22m 31s):
Cause I, I graduated from school and I felt like everyone disappeared. And then there was no social structure for me to, to, to gravitate towards,

2 (1h 22m 44s):
Through line, through line. It's like you graduate and some people get famous, some don't and fuck the rest. And I mean like that's how it is. It's like we all live vicariously through the people that get famous. It's the weirdest thing.

7 (1h 22m 58s):
Yeah. Yeah. When I, I think there was there, I know there are conversation. People like, especially being in LA, like actually having that, anyone met up with anyone from DePaul since I've been here. I mean, I connect with, you know, there's my close friends up from school that I've stayed connected with for a couple of years. But you know, I think that's what I think was so hard for me when I left school was not having that community there. And then when I moved to New York, I actually reached out to all the DePaul people who were in New York and they became like good friends, you know, which was, which was nice. But there were only a few of us there.

2 (1h 23m 37s):
I think the thing is like people think that we are doing a podcast that sort of celebrates the awesomeness of the theater school. And also I think people just even hear the word theater school and flip out that went there and I can end it with saying that I was telling Gina that I recently saw Rick Murphy in the Aldi in Altadena. We can leave this part in, cause this is, and I ran away. Like I, well, first of all, he didn't have a mask on. I did. I was like, so it was weird to me. I thought he was sick. Someone told me he was sick. So when I saw him healthy and like bouncing around the Aldi, I was like, what is fucking happening?

2 (1h 24m 18s):
And also, should I say something? And he wasn't wearing a mask. It was like this weird thing. And I ultimately left, like I did not say shit. I was. And I think, look, I think it was a lot of things, but I think the underlying thing is like, I don't know if he'll remember me and I don't want to deal with the shame of not being remembered. And I don't want to get into all that with him unless it's in a container where he's on the show where I know we're in control of the whole conversation.

7 (1h 24m 45s):
Well, I think sometimes the challenge is when you see someone who used to do like theater with back in the day, the inevitable question that comes up is like, what are you doing? You know, which is always from,

2 (1h 24m 58s):
I say two things. I'm doing porn and murder.

7 (1h 25m 5s):
Oh my God. I'm stealing that feeling that

3 (1h 25m 17s):
If you liked what you heard today, please give us a positive five star review and subscribe and tell your friends. I survived. Theater school is an undeniable ink production. Jen Bosworth, Ramirez and Gina plegia are the co-hosts. This episode was produced, edited and sound mixed by Gina <inaudible> for more information about this podcast or other goings on of undeniable, Inc. Please visit our [e-mail]. You can also follow us on Facebook, Instagram, and Twitter. Thank you.

What is I Survived Theatre School?

We went to theatre school. We survived it, but we didn't understand it. 20 years later, we're talking to our guests about their experience of going for this highly specialized type of college at the tender age of 18. Did it all go as planned? Are we still pursuing acting? Did we get cut from the program? Did we... become famous yet?