1
00:00:05,238 --> 00:00:06,859
Good morning, Grid Connections listeners.

2
00:00:06,859 --> 00:00:10,311
Today we are thrilled to have John
Volcker, contributing editor at Car and

3
00:00:10,311 --> 00:00:14,153
Driver Magazine and host of Tempting Fate
Tours join us again.

4
00:00:14,173 --> 00:00:18,325
In this exciting episode, we dive deep
into the LACE EV sales numbers, providing

5
00:00:18,325 --> 00:00:21,797
you with the most up -to -date insights in
the electric vehicle market.

6
00:00:21,797 --> 00:00:25,429
John shares his first -hand experience
test driving GM's Ultium vehicles from

7
00:00:25,429 --> 00:00:29,402
their new electric crossovers to their
large electric SUVs and trucks.

8
00:00:29,402 --> 00:00:32,924
We explore the innovations and challenges
faced by GM with their current electric

9
00:00:32,924 --> 00:00:33,864
product

10
00:00:34,166 --> 00:00:34,937
But that's not all.

11
00:00:34,937 --> 00:00:38,740
John also takes us on a journey to England
where he recently met with the team at

12
00:00:38,740 --> 00:00:39,721
Polestar.

13
00:00:39,721 --> 00:00:42,683
We discussed their current EV offerings
and get a sneak peek into their future

14
00:00:42,683 --> 00:00:43,524
products.

15
00:00:43,524 --> 00:00:47,647
You can find a link to John's recent
articles on Polestar and many other in

16
00:00:47,647 --> 00:00:49,208
today's show notes.

17
00:00:49,609 --> 00:00:52,111
If you enjoy this episode, we do have a
small request.

18
00:00:52,111 --> 00:00:55,053
Please share with at least one other
person who might find it interesting as

19
00:00:55,053 --> 00:00:55,324
well.

20
00:00:55,324 --> 00:00:58,356
And don't forget to leave a pause review
on our podcast page.

21
00:00:58,356 --> 00:01:02,440
Your support helps us bring more
insightful content to you each week.

22
00:01:02,440 --> 00:01:03,260
With

23
00:01:03,798 --> 00:01:04,293
Enjoy.

24
00:01:04,532 --> 00:01:08,564
I know there's been a lot of great topics
since we talked last, it's been about six

25
00:01:08,564 --> 00:01:12,787
months and you've done some travels to all
sorts of different events.

26
00:01:12,787 --> 00:01:15,188
You've been testing new cars among other
things.

27
00:01:15,188 --> 00:01:20,531
So let's just kind of kick it off with, we
might actually, I guess, be working

28
00:01:20,531 --> 00:01:23,753
backwards, but I know one of the things we
wanted to talk about today was just the

29
00:01:23,753 --> 00:01:25,473
recent quarterly EV sales

30
00:01:25,473 --> 00:01:25,884
Sure.

31
00:01:25,884 --> 00:01:29,757
We don't analyze sales month by month
anymore because a lot of car makers have

32
00:01:29,757 --> 00:01:31,128
stopped issuing monthly sales.

33
00:01:31,128 --> 00:01:32,729
They do them quarterly.

34
00:01:33,590 --> 00:01:38,054
Made people like me very grumbly
initially, but quarterly is not so bad.

35
00:01:38,054 --> 00:01:42,958
And in some ways you may get less noise
level quarter to quarter.

36
00:01:42,958 --> 00:01:50,624
But EV sales continue to rise despite the
headlines you may have read.

37
00:01:50,624 --> 00:01:54,567
And I am at this point reduced to quoting
Barbie.

38
00:01:54,635 --> 00:01:57,175
math class can be hard.

39
00:01:58,115 --> 00:02:03,595
A decline in the rate of sales growth is
not a decline in sales.

40
00:02:03,595 --> 00:02:11,255
And in fact, one of the big questions for
analysts, we were at about 6 % EVs out of

41
00:02:11,255 --> 00:02:13,955
the total market sold in 2022.

42
00:02:13,955 --> 00:02:15,895
We were at about 8%.

43
00:02:15,895 --> 00:02:20,755
Last year, 2023, we hit 10 % this year,
2024.

44
00:02:21,635 --> 00:02:22,755
And...

45
00:02:23,197 --> 00:02:29,172
I tend to think that one of the factors
that we're not necessarily including when

46
00:02:29,172 --> 00:02:35,868
we look at the second half of this year is
GM finally, finally is starting to move

47
00:02:35,868 --> 00:02:38,060
significant numbers of Ultium vehicles.

48
00:02:38,060 --> 00:02:42,964
First out of, in Q2 really out of their
factories into their dealers, although the

49
00:02:42,964 --> 00:02:49,270
sales numbers ticked up, but I think in Q3
and Q4 we'll see some significant sales

50
00:02:49,270 --> 00:02:50,290
from GM.

51
00:02:51,165 --> 00:02:55,699
just as they've sort of washed out the
last significant numbers of Bolt EVs and

52
00:02:55,699 --> 00:02:56,640
EUVs.

53
00:02:56,640 --> 00:02:58,841
So I look forward to that.

54
00:02:59,622 --> 00:03:05,747
I'm actually driving a Chevy Blazer EV
this week, and that's the last of the

55
00:03:05,747 --> 00:03:08,830
Ultiums now on the market that I hadn't
driven.

56
00:03:08,830 --> 00:03:16,876
So Blazer EV, Silverado EV, most recently
the Equinox EV, which I liked quite a lot.

57
00:03:17,417 --> 00:03:19,915
And then prior to that, the Cadillac
Lyric.

58
00:03:19,915 --> 00:03:23,695
and the GMC Hummer EV in both of its body
styles.

59
00:03:24,115 --> 00:03:27,295
So there will be more Ultium vehicles
coming.

60
00:03:27,295 --> 00:03:32,615
They've already announced the Escalade IQ,
Cadillac Celestic, the ultra luxury sedan

61
00:03:32,615 --> 00:03:38,975
for $300 ,000, isn't really a major sales
mover, although it's a prestige car, but

62
00:03:38,975 --> 00:03:41,455
there will be others that GM hasn't
announced.

63
00:03:41,455 --> 00:03:45,415
There's a Cadillac, for instance, the
Vistic, smaller.

64
00:03:46,035 --> 00:03:48,675
So all in all, I

65
00:03:49,131 --> 00:03:53,291
If the rest of the market continues doing
what it did in the first and second

66
00:03:53,291 --> 00:03:59,731
quarters and you add GM to that, plus
there's Honda Prologues made by GM and

67
00:03:59,731 --> 00:04:04,771
Acura ZDXs made by GM, then we should see
some numbers.

68
00:04:04,771 --> 00:04:11,911
What happened in Q2 is that most of the
folks who are not Tesla were up.

69
00:04:11,911 --> 00:04:14,471
Not all of them, and I won't go through
the list.

70
00:04:14,471 --> 00:04:19,243
Tesla, however, being roughly 50 % of the
market in the US,

71
00:04:19,243 --> 00:04:25,023
If, as the saying goes, if they catch a
cold, no, if they sneeze, the entire

72
00:04:25,023 --> 00:04:27,103
industry catches a cold.

73
00:04:27,103 --> 00:04:32,943
And Tesla for the first time was less than
50 % of all the EVs sold in the US.

74
00:04:32,943 --> 00:04:37,803
Now that's battery electrics, which is all
Tesla makes, and plug -in hybrids.

75
00:04:38,403 --> 00:04:41,643
I have an article on plug -in hybrids
coming out within the next week or 10

76
00:04:41,643 --> 00:04:42,203
days.

77
00:04:42,203 --> 00:04:43,883
Watch for it.

78
00:04:44,503 --> 00:04:47,211
But I remain...

79
00:04:47,211 --> 00:04:54,131
Guardedly optimistic that 10 % of the
market is not an unreasonable thing for us

80
00:04:54,131 --> 00:04:54,931
to hope

81
00:04:55,751 --> 00:04:57,235
By what time?

82
00:04:57,471 --> 00:04:58,679
by the end of this

83
00:04:58,836 --> 00:04:59,376
End of this year.

84
00:04:59,376 --> 00:04:59,707
OK.

85
00:04:59,707 --> 00:05:02,598
No, I think that's a pretty realistic
expectation.

86
00:05:02,599 --> 00:05:06,821
Looking at it's funny you mentioned the
thing about Tesla sales because there were

87
00:05:06,821 --> 00:05:07,932
two things that I noticed.

88
00:05:07,932 --> 00:05:10,364
You're right that Tesla's

89
00:05:10,664 --> 00:05:13,956
sales brought down the overall market, but
then coincidentally, I forget not by a

90
00:05:13,956 --> 00:05:20,710
whole lot, but then ironically, because of
the cyber truck sales and the actual price

91
00:05:20,710 --> 00:05:26,024
of it, it caused the average EV price to
go up just slightly, which is kind of a

92
00:05:26,024 --> 00:05:27,445
funny twist.

93
00:05:27,445 --> 00:05:27,885
But you're right.

94
00:05:27,885 --> 00:05:31,237
If you kind of take them out and you start
looking at a lot of the domestic players,

95
00:05:31,237 --> 00:05:35,384
especially, there's pretty positive growth
signs with,

96
00:05:35,384 --> 00:05:39,266
I think the Cybertruck is really one of
the big unknowns for Tesla.

97
00:05:40,607 --> 00:05:46,330
I was told I have now met the owner of the
first Tesla Cybertruck in Woodstock, New

98
00:05:46,330 --> 00:05:52,424
York, who told me that it was clear that
everybody else was going to be driving

99
00:05:52,424 --> 00:05:53,154
these five years.

100
00:05:53,154 --> 00:05:58,247
Hence, it's so advanced that the Detroit
truck makers had no idea what to do, can't

101
00:05:58,247 --> 00:05:59,898
keep up and so on.

102
00:06:00,058 --> 00:06:01,919
And he expects there to

103
00:06:02,503 --> 00:06:05,804
many dozens of them in a woodstock three
or five years hence.

104
00:06:05,804 --> 00:06:07,304
That's one side of the equation.

105
00:06:07,304 --> 00:06:13,746
The other side of the equation is, is this
a vehicle once you get past Tesla's

106
00:06:13,746 --> 00:06:17,657
existing audience, the early adopters and
those people who really want to make a

107
00:06:17,657 --> 00:06:22,579
statement driving what I have tended to
describe as something that looks like a

108
00:06:22,579 --> 00:06:24,429
dystopian movie prop.

109
00:06:25,609 --> 00:06:30,931
Once you get past that set of people are
the truck users

110
00:06:31,583 --> 00:06:38,617
by hundreds of thousands of F -150s and
Ram 1500s and Chevy Silverados going to

111
00:06:38,617 --> 00:06:43,670
adopt something like the Cybertruck,
especially given its price points.

112
00:06:43,670 --> 00:06:45,711
Very much up in the air right now.

113
00:06:46,052 --> 00:06:50,164
I have my own thoughts, but I'm gonna wait
till the end of the year like everything

114
00:06:50,164 --> 00:06:52,265
else and then we can sort out the pieces.

115
00:06:53,137 --> 00:06:54,428
Yeah, I completely agree.

116
00:06:54,428 --> 00:06:59,571
I think at the price point, there's
definitely not going to be a strong room

117
00:06:59,571 --> 00:07:01,532
for it to scale beyond where it's at right
now.

118
00:07:01,532 --> 00:07:04,123
But at the same time, it's supposed to
come down.

119
00:07:04,764 --> 00:07:05,925
Right, right.

120
00:07:05,925 --> 00:07:07,916
You know, actually, I will I will push
back on that, though.

121
00:07:07,916 --> 00:07:12,018
What's really interesting is I was kind
looking at this the other day, going

122
00:07:12,018 --> 00:07:12,629
through the specs.

123
00:07:12,629 --> 00:07:16,381
And yeah, the big thing was that the
eighty thousand dollar one supposed to

124
00:07:16,381 --> 00:07:17,952
have five hundred miles.

125
00:07:18,024 --> 00:07:21,764
but the all wheel drive one actually has
more than they said it was only gonna have

126
00:07:21,764 --> 00:07:22,944
like 300.

127
00:07:23,124 --> 00:07:27,524
So I, but I will say obviously that's what
got everyone hyped up was this 500 mile

128
00:07:27,524 --> 00:07:28,404
range one.

129
00:07:28,404 --> 00:07:31,304
So it was just, it was just really
interesting to kind of look at like with

130
00:07:31,304 --> 00:07:36,124
inflation of these things since it's been
announced, like it is a miss, but numbers

131
00:07:36,124 --> 00:07:40,624
wise, I was actually surprised how close
it was than some people have been saying.

132
00:07:40,624 --> 00:07:45,364
It's still not one for one, but just, just
a caveat, just a caveat.

133
00:07:45,364 --> 00:07:45,799
Yeah.

134
00:07:45,799 --> 00:07:50,079
it is not, I mean, it would have been the
only pickup truck with 500 miles, right?

135
00:07:50,079 --> 00:07:55,359
It is not the only pickup truck, battery
electric, that has 300 miles of range.

136
00:07:55,379 --> 00:07:58,662
So in that sense, you

137
00:07:58,662 --> 00:08:00,022
Well, for sure, for sure.

138
00:08:00,022 --> 00:08:04,482
And I think with the GM products you're
seeing, I am curious to see, kind of

139
00:08:04,482 --> 00:08:09,182
talking about the Ultium platform, how
scalable the 200 kilowatt hour plus

140
00:08:09,182 --> 00:08:10,962
battery packs will be.

141
00:08:10,962 --> 00:08:14,202
And for those to scale at price point and
parity.

142
00:08:14,982 --> 00:08:21,142
But it is interesting you say that, not to
go down the Cybertruck rabbit hole, feel

143
00:08:21,142 --> 00:08:24,562
like that's something we've definitely
done before here.

144
00:08:24,937 --> 00:08:28,423
I have been, I think my surprise has just
been

145
00:08:31,329 --> 00:08:35,241
Impressions of people in real life versus
online are almost night and day.

146
00:08:35,241 --> 00:08:37,792
I don't have one personally, just to
clarify.

147
00:08:37,792 --> 00:08:42,094
But whenever I've been in public and one
goes by, I feel like the last month,

148
00:08:42,094 --> 00:08:45,455
especially I've seen a bunch of them go by
and people are like, what is that?

149
00:08:45,455 --> 00:08:46,556
That's really cool.

150
00:08:46,556 --> 00:08:50,197
And then you tell them the price point or
something like, okay, that makes sense.

151
00:08:50,197 --> 00:08:55,519
Which is kind of ironic to me also because
of like how basic it looks that they, the

152
00:08:55,519 --> 00:09:00,542
general public, the non -automotive space
seems to think that a very simple shape

153
00:09:00,542 --> 00:09:01,254
means it's

154
00:09:01,254 --> 00:09:02,494
expensive.

155
00:09:03,295 --> 00:09:04,506
But no, I agree with you.

156
00:09:04,506 --> 00:09:11,220
It'll be interesting to see if the average
traditional gas pickup buyer also adopts

157
00:09:11,220 --> 00:09:12,020
these.

158
00:09:12,020 --> 00:09:16,043
But that could be a podcast unto itself.

159
00:09:16,043 --> 00:09:22,183
Yeah, and my only only anecdote is you and
I live in different places in the world.

160
00:09:23,463 --> 00:09:29,523
Possibly the folks that you run into who
are repeatedly saying that's really cool

161
00:09:29,523 --> 00:09:33,943
are more forwarded looking.

162
00:09:34,363 --> 00:09:41,423
I have seen probably a 50 50 mix and I did
see one guy flip off a cyber

163
00:09:41,567 --> 00:09:45,334
just standing on the sidewalk, saw it, and
I won't do the gesture because you're

164
00:09:45,334 --> 00:09:50,123
recording, but you know what it looks
like, and it was not a respectful, that's

165
00:09:50,123 --> 00:09:51,165
cool gesture.

166
00:09:51,165 --> 00:09:52,847
So, we'll see.

167
00:09:53,249 --> 00:09:54,751
The market will tell

168
00:09:54,859 --> 00:09:55,319
Yeah.

169
00:09:55,319 --> 00:09:58,839
And I think one caveat also to say to that
is it does it does seem to be a

170
00:09:58,839 --> 00:10:03,599
generational if someone is like under 40,
there seems to be a much higher likelihood

171
00:10:03,599 --> 00:10:05,239
they think it's interesting.

172
00:10:05,239 --> 00:10:06,759
And I think you're 39.

173
00:10:06,759 --> 00:10:07,179
Right, John.

174
00:10:07,179 --> 00:10:08,039
So you're kind of right.

175
00:10:08,039 --> 00:10:09,699
Just on the precipice there.

176
00:10:09,699 --> 00:10:10,519
Yeah.

177
00:10:10,519 --> 00:10:14,699
As a 35 year old, I'm kind of on the
precipice, too, of depending, determining

178
00:10:14,699 --> 00:10:16,759
whether I like it or not.

179
00:10:17,339 --> 00:10:20,759
But I

180
00:10:21,022 --> 00:10:23,263
I let's change the subject.

181
00:10:23,603 --> 00:10:29,206
But no, I appreciate the the diversity and
thought on that because I agree with you

182
00:10:29,206 --> 00:10:29,956
like good or bad.

183
00:10:29,956 --> 00:10:33,498
I think if you're in the if you're a car
enthusiast, whether you hate or not, you

184
00:10:33,498 --> 00:10:36,890
just kind of have to respect it for being
so different with after like the last

185
00:10:36,890 --> 00:10:41,052
decade and a half of kind of having more
cars becoming a little bit more amorphous.

186
00:10:41,112 --> 00:10:43,333
I don't know if that was the right
direction.

187
00:10:43,478 --> 00:10:46,790
But at least I think it's what's kind of
opened the door for like companies like

188
00:10:46,790 --> 00:10:52,414
Hyundai and others to do more kind of
angular and edgier design and maybe make

189
00:10:52,414 --> 00:10:54,525
something that is more approachable.

190
00:10:54,846 --> 00:10:55,447
Really.

191
00:10:55,447 --> 00:10:56,347
effect.

192
00:10:56,467 --> 00:11:00,527
The question, I think, looking at
automotive history is, in terms of

193
00:11:00,527 --> 00:11:07,427
something really different, you know, is
this a striking design?

194
00:11:07,807 --> 00:11:15,687
Let's, I don't know, let's take the
Chrysler 300 in 2006, which was that

195
00:11:15,687 --> 00:11:18,507
square gangster looking sedan.

196
00:11:18,507 --> 00:11:20,287
No one had ever seen a sedan like

197
00:11:20,319 --> 00:11:25,962
before from an American maker, at least
since the 60s, that was widely admired, I

198
00:11:25,962 --> 00:11:29,504
think, as a striking form that a lot of
people looked at.

199
00:11:29,764 --> 00:11:32,526
Or is it the Pontiac Aztec?

200
00:11:33,194 --> 00:11:39,156
See, not to keep this conversation going,
I totally get the Aztec comparison.

201
00:11:39,156 --> 00:11:41,967
I almost think it's like more Lamborghini
Countach.

202
00:11:41,967 --> 00:11:46,159
The Countach looks better, but it's like
this absurd level of angular design that

203
00:11:46,159 --> 00:11:48,409
just doesn't look like it should work.

204
00:11:48,550 --> 00:11:53,762
And maybe it doesn't, but yes, yes, yes,
yes.

205
00:11:53,762 --> 00:11:55,182
No, let's, let's go back to Ultium though.

206
00:11:55,182 --> 00:11:59,273
Cause I'm really curious since you've
driven a lot more of those than I have

207
00:11:59,634 --> 00:12:03,185
around the actual, let's start with the
trucks, especially.

208
00:12:03,230 --> 00:12:07,390
What has been kind of your experience
talking about a truck that's got over at

209
00:12:07,390 --> 00:12:13,070
least 400 miles of range, but has these
heavy battery packs and they themselves

210
00:12:13,070 --> 00:12:16,670
are pretty heavy trucks, even by large
truck standards.

211
00:12:16,670 --> 00:12:20,890
What has kind of been your experience with
that product line?

212
00:12:20,890 --> 00:12:24,970
And I guess to ask the same thing, do you
think that that is something that the

213
00:12:24,970 --> 00:12:28,651
traditional truck buyer is going to be
open to?

214
00:12:28,651 --> 00:12:32,364
Or is it just inherently going to be a
still a huge hurdle for that market due to

215
00:12:32,364 --> 00:12:34,992
it being EVs and EVs are bad

216
00:12:38,475 --> 00:12:40,755
There's a lot wrapped into that question.

217
00:12:42,295 --> 00:12:51,295
First thing, I continue to question GM's
making what I think of as the Avalanche,

218
00:12:51,295 --> 00:12:58,235
which is to say a single body with sail
panels, four door truck, essentially like

219
00:12:58,235 --> 00:13:00,995
the Chevy Avalanche from what was it?

220
00:13:00,995 --> 00:13:05,775
2002 to 2011 or some period like that.

221
00:13:05,775 --> 00:13:06,595
Yeah.

222
00:13:06,855 --> 00:13:08,043
And

223
00:13:08,043 --> 00:13:14,023
That was beloved by its owners, but the
highest ever sales of the Avalanche in one

224
00:13:14,023 --> 00:13:20,843
year, if I remember correctly, was well
under 100 ,000 units.

225
00:13:20,843 --> 00:13:25,163
So it was not a substantial portion of...

226
00:13:25,163 --> 00:13:26,243
Yeah.

227
00:13:26,963 --> 00:13:33,923
So, and as Ford will point out frequently
and often is

228
00:13:34,815 --> 00:13:41,747
their F -150 Lightning uses all the
standard outfits that businesses have

229
00:13:41,747 --> 00:13:47,158
taken, created, or bought for their
existing gasoline F -150s.

230
00:13:47,158 --> 00:13:50,619
And you can just drop those directly into
an F -150 Lightning.

231
00:13:50,619 --> 00:13:55,061
So it shows the two companies different
approaches, really.

232
00:13:55,061 --> 00:13:56,531
GM, Mrs.

233
00:13:56,531 --> 00:14:02,083
Barra, the CEO, has maintained for years
that EV sales will be additive.

234
00:14:02,083 --> 00:14:03,935
They're not going to be substitutive.

235
00:14:03,935 --> 00:14:07,808
they will get new people who would not
necessarily have bought a gasoline or

236
00:14:07,808 --> 00:14:11,200
diesel Silverado who will buy an electric
one.

237
00:14:11,600 --> 00:14:18,065
Ford says essentially some of it will be
additive, some of it can be substitutive

238
00:14:18,065 --> 00:14:21,908
because of all the fleet benefits to
running an electric truck.

239
00:14:21,908 --> 00:14:27,391
And of course they have Ford Pro, which is
all of the telematics data.

240
00:14:27,632 --> 00:14:32,305
They have a nice sort of way of charging,
tracking, charging data, et cetera, et

241
00:14:32,305 --> 00:14:32,939
cetera.

242
00:14:32,939 --> 00:14:37,439
GM has now started something like that,
but they are rather behind compared to

243
00:14:37,439 --> 00:14:37,899
Ford.

244
00:14:37,899 --> 00:14:41,259
So it's two different approaches, and I'm
very much looking forward to driving the

245
00:14:41,259 --> 00:14:47,499
Ram 1500, Rev, which is the battery
electric one, and Ram Charger, which is

246
00:14:47,499 --> 00:14:50,139
the series hybrid one.

247
00:14:50,719 --> 00:14:52,659
Series plug -in hybrid.

248
00:14:53,919 --> 00:15:01,519
So, whether or not all three of those
variants, all of whom have really loyal

249
00:15:02,091 --> 00:15:07,271
audiences remains to be seen.

250
00:15:07,271 --> 00:15:09,411
know, good to have another entrant.

251
00:15:09,451 --> 00:15:15,071
I do tend to point to the Japanese who
have been trying for 25 years to break

252
00:15:15,071 --> 00:15:18,031
into the US full -size pickup market.

253
00:15:18,611 --> 00:15:20,351
builds them in Texas.

254
00:15:20,351 --> 00:15:23,171
They have their truck development lab
there.

255
00:15:23,591 --> 00:15:29,515
The Toyota Tundra, after 20 plus years, is
just not a major factor in volume.

256
00:15:29,515 --> 00:15:35,955
I think it's 100, maybe 150 ,000, compared
to selling about a million F -series

257
00:15:35,955 --> 00:15:37,575
pickups for Ford.

258
00:15:38,295 --> 00:15:44,475
Similar numbers for Chevy Silverado plus
GMC Sierra, same truck, different clothes.

259
00:15:45,855 --> 00:15:49,555
And Nissan gave up, and they're out of
that market entirely.

260
00:15:49,555 --> 00:15:51,395
So we'll see.

261
00:15:52,115 --> 00:15:55,635
There is, of course, the meme that went
around.

262
00:15:55,635 --> 00:15:57,511
I don't know if you saw this.

263
00:15:57,511 --> 00:16:03,636
A whole bunch of letters stuck to the back
of a truck window that said, never mind

264
00:16:03,636 --> 00:16:05,938
Cummins versus Powerstroke.

265
00:16:05,938 --> 00:16:09,141
Forget about Ford versus Chevy.

266
00:16:09,141 --> 00:16:13,283
We all have to band together and defeat
this EV.

267
00:16:13,984 --> 00:16:18,128
So, don't know how that attitude will play
out.

268
00:16:18,128 --> 00:16:24,042
Fleet makers will like the lower running
costs, but you had asked me, umpteen

269
00:16:24,042 --> 00:16:27,645
minutes ago, about driving the trucks.

270
00:16:27,723 --> 00:16:32,743
You know, like most Americans, I actually
drive small trucks.

271
00:16:32,743 --> 00:16:35,183
I had a Subaru out back until recently.

272
00:16:35,463 --> 00:16:40,223
So my main impression is they're really
big and heavy.

273
00:16:40,223 --> 00:16:41,523
They have a great ride.

274
00:16:41,523 --> 00:16:47,423
They have good acceleration, good
regenerative braking, and the Hummer,

275
00:16:47,423 --> 00:16:51,203
which has rear wheel steering, is
shockingly maneuverable.

276
00:16:51,203 --> 00:16:57,493
It's really, I had not expected a 9 ,200
pound vehicle

277
00:16:57,493 --> 00:17:06,305
to be quite as, I'm not sure nimble is the
word, quite as easy to drive given that

278
00:17:06,305 --> 00:17:09,486
you're several feet off the ground and
you're driving something the size of a

279
00:17:09,486 --> 00:17:11,127
small municipal hospital.

280
00:17:11,127 --> 00:17:17,298
But I also took a photo at one of the
roads that leads to my house that says

281
00:17:17,298 --> 00:17:19,269
weight limit four tons.

282
00:17:19,329 --> 00:17:20,689
Yeah.

283
00:17:20,689 --> 00:17:26,041
Now, experience has told us quite frankly,
the truck owners do not care about such

284
00:17:26,041 --> 00:17:26,763
things.

285
00:17:26,763 --> 00:17:32,783
When I asked GM about the weight of the
Hummer EV as tested, I have in mind 9 ,240

286
00:17:32,783 --> 00:17:33,683
pounds.

287
00:17:33,683 --> 00:17:35,983
That was the top trim one.

288
00:17:36,563 --> 00:17:37,223
Yeah.

289
00:17:38,763 --> 00:17:43,223
GM said, oh, as it says in all of our
documents and in the owner's handbook, it

290
00:17:43,223 --> 00:17:48,503
is the responsibility of the owner of the
vehicle to comply with all state, federal

291
00:17:48,503 --> 00:17:52,923
and local ordinances regarding the
operation of the vehicle.

292
00:17:54,483 --> 00:17:56,287
If we go back in history.

293
00:17:56,287 --> 00:18:00,729
Remember when there was that tax break
where small businesses could write off

294
00:18:00,729 --> 00:18:05,492
certain types of vehicles in one year and
a whole bunch of people bought Hummer H1s

295
00:18:05,492 --> 00:18:07,833
because they were over the three ton
weight limit?

296
00:18:08,634 --> 00:18:13,596
They often, using those for commuting,
tended to live in pricey suburbs, which at

297
00:18:13,596 --> 00:18:18,449
least where I'm from, often have little
tiny winding 19th or 18th or 17th century

298
00:18:18,449 --> 00:18:22,041
roads, which have three ton bridges.

299
00:18:23,902 --> 00:18:25,843
Do you think they obeyed those?

300
00:18:26,047 --> 00:18:27,170
hell no.

301
00:18:27,255 --> 00:18:28,310
So we'll see.

302
00:18:28,310 --> 00:18:30,681
Let us hope there are no bridge failures.

303
00:18:31,408 --> 00:18:35,388
Well, and I think it's so funny too,
because I believe like back then the H2

304
00:18:35,388 --> 00:18:38,088
Hummer, whichever Hummer it was, like 6200
pound.

305
00:18:38,088 --> 00:18:41,108
Like it just, it crossed the line, but
just barely.

306
00:18:41,108 --> 00:18:46,648
And then you look at the EVs in this space
now, and it is good to see some of them

307
00:18:46,648 --> 00:18:48,888
are coming down weight, especially the
smaller ones.

308
00:18:48,888 --> 00:18:50,928
But yeah, you've got the Rivians of the
world and everything else.

309
00:18:50,928 --> 00:18:53,428
They just go blow right past that on the
weight size.

310
00:18:53,428 --> 00:18:58,988
And I think it, I think it is definitely
something that needs to be considered and

311
00:18:58,988 --> 00:19:00,622
talked about more.

312
00:19:00,622 --> 00:19:06,080
but it's definitely something I've also
seen picked up already by the anti -EV

313
00:19:06,080 --> 00:19:07,042
groups.

314
00:19:07,042 --> 00:19:08,564
They're like, these things are so heavy.

315
00:19:08,564 --> 00:19:14,580
Meanwhile, they are also driving their
F350 that is in the same ballpark.

316
00:19:14,580 --> 00:19:24,058
shocked at the sudden concern over the
terrible cardiopulmonary effects of excess

317
00:19:24,058 --> 00:19:26,110
thyroid particles from EVs.

318
00:19:26,110 --> 00:19:32,815
I must have missed those folks' concern
over that same issue before EVs

319
00:19:34,038 --> 00:19:39,024
I know it's the I missed that news to John
I'm not sure where it's being broadcast

320
00:19:39,024 --> 00:19:43,019
but it's definitely not on a rater I did
want to ask you you mentioned you recently

321
00:19:43,019 --> 00:19:48,195
owned a super you talked about a pickup so
I have to ask you was it the super Baja or

322
00:19:48,276 --> 00:19:50,059
okay okay okay yeah

323
00:19:50,059 --> 00:19:54,785
as my better half calls it, the BHAHAHAHA!

324
00:19:55,547 --> 00:20:00,073
No, they are still running around and
actually I guess they're reluctant to.

325
00:20:00,174 --> 00:20:00,708
Yeah.

326
00:20:00,708 --> 00:20:02,269
are a collector's item is so funny.

327
00:20:02,269 --> 00:20:03,990
It's not my cup of tea.

328
00:20:04,030 --> 00:20:08,143
But living here on the west coast,
especially in Oregon, they are they are a

329
00:20:08,143 --> 00:20:08,934
hot commodity.

330
00:20:08,934 --> 00:20:11,356
If you have one, it's kind of bragging
rights even.

331
00:20:11,356 --> 00:20:15,419
And it just seems like they only ever made
them in like red and a searing yellow.

332
00:20:15,419 --> 00:20:17,019
That seems to be the only.

333
00:20:18,101 --> 00:20:18,765
Yeah.

334
00:20:18,765 --> 00:20:21,506
Yeah.

335
00:20:21,847 --> 00:20:27,440
So I have somewhat less experience with
the big Altium trucks than I do with the

336
00:20:27,440 --> 00:20:28,990
passenger vehicles.

337
00:20:29,651 --> 00:20:34,514
Lyric, I said I was fairly impressed by
the Equinox.

338
00:20:34,854 --> 00:20:39,177
The Blazer that I'm driving now gets a lot
of looks.

339
00:20:39,177 --> 00:20:41,478
I can't tell if they're favorable or not.

340
00:20:41,478 --> 00:20:43,059
Haven't gotten any thumbs

341
00:20:43,071 --> 00:20:48,894
but it's that really lovely sort of deep
metallic, not quite maroon, but darker

342
00:20:48,894 --> 00:20:49,674
red.

343
00:20:49,674 --> 00:20:51,275
And it really pops.

344
00:20:51,275 --> 00:20:54,076
I just find this dialing a little bit
overwrought.

345
00:20:54,076 --> 00:21:00,128
The Equinox is a much simpler, fairly, I
don't want to say plain, because that

346
00:21:00,128 --> 00:21:00,752
sounds like a...

347
00:21:00,752 --> 00:21:05,338
you say the blazers almost over stylized
and the Equinox is like under stylized?

348
00:21:05,338 --> 00:21:07,401
I kind of feel like they're a little bit.

349
00:21:07,401 --> 00:21:11,226
They're not bad, but it just it is kind of
interesting that I think they're just a

350
00:21:11,226 --> 00:21:14,922
little bit off the mark, at least in my
taste, styling wise.

351
00:21:14,922 --> 00:21:17,313
the Equinox shape actually works.

352
00:21:17,313 --> 00:21:18,754
I spent a fair amount of time with it.

353
00:21:18,754 --> 00:21:25,579
I took an absolute ton of pictures and
it's color sensitive, but it's basically a

354
00:21:25,579 --> 00:21:32,363
shape that's not going to scare anyone,
which I think for the highest volume

355
00:21:32,363 --> 00:21:39,087
entrant in GM's growing EV line is the
right approach to

356
00:21:39,147 --> 00:21:41,587
The controls are fairly understandable.

357
00:21:41,587 --> 00:21:50,087
They're pretty much the same screens as in
the latest combustion engine, GM cars and

358
00:21:50,087 --> 00:21:51,847
SUVs and trucks.

359
00:21:52,067 --> 00:22:02,667
so unlike the Model 3, which has gotten
even less understandable if a newbie sits

360
00:22:02,667 --> 00:22:08,619
down the first time and we expect the
Model Y to go that route at some point.

361
00:22:08,619 --> 00:22:16,119
The Equinox is relatively understandable
for someone fresh to get in it, figure out

362
00:22:16,119 --> 00:22:17,859
how to drive it.

363
00:22:18,419 --> 00:22:19,639
And I like the package.

364
00:22:19,639 --> 00:22:23,399
It's not light, but it's lighter than the
Blazer EV.

365
00:22:23,839 --> 00:22:25,359
Still has a lot of room inside.

366
00:22:25,359 --> 00:22:27,319
I can sit behind myself.

367
00:22:27,359 --> 00:22:32,899
It's pushing the upper limits of the
compact SUV designation, but everything

368
00:22:32,899 --> 00:22:34,559
has bracket grepped.

369
00:22:34,559 --> 00:22:38,795
I mean, it's probably the size of a Toyota
Highlander 20 years ago, but...

370
00:22:38,795 --> 00:22:43,662
The Toyota Highlander 20 years ago would
be tiny today.

371
00:22:43,662 --> 00:22:44,223
Exactly.

372
00:22:44,223 --> 00:22:50,652
I know one of the concerns or reviews of
it has just been overall good and then

373
00:22:50,652 --> 00:22:52,715
kind of where it fell apart was around the
charging.

374
00:22:52,715 --> 00:22:56,009
I was just curious if there was anything
or if in your experience you'd seen that

375
00:22:56,009 --> 00:22:56,810
too.

376
00:22:58,443 --> 00:23:03,663
So it seemed to charge well over a hundred
kilowatts.

377
00:23:03,663 --> 00:23:06,923
don't, I didn't get a chance to charge it
personally.

378
00:23:06,963 --> 00:23:11,503
Somebody else who did said he was in the
138, 145 range.

379
00:23:12,803 --> 00:23:18,223
It was never realistic to expect that it,
the Blazer TV and all the rest, we're

380
00:23:18,223 --> 00:23:20,443
going to have 800 volt charging.

381
00:23:21,603 --> 00:23:28,299
GM's take is that the, given the range of
charges at which people start, you

382
00:23:28,299 --> 00:23:32,099
Some people are like, oh my God, 50 %
battery, need to charge immediately.

383
00:23:32,099 --> 00:23:36,039
You're not gonna get the benefit of 800
volt charging if you're charging from 50

384
00:23:36,039 --> 00:23:36,879
to 80%.

385
00:23:36,879 --> 00:23:39,619
You're just, you know, one or two minutes
maybe.

386
00:23:40,699 --> 00:23:48,319
When I charged the Blazer yesterday, I saw
a consistent 154 kilowatts.

387
00:23:48,319 --> 00:23:56,839
I started with 24%, I think, and you know,
it took...

388
00:23:57,867 --> 00:23:58,747
What did it take?

389
00:23:58,747 --> 00:24:01,147
It took probably 12, 15 minutes.

390
00:24:01,147 --> 00:24:05,287
I'd have to look at the screen to get to
the point where I was well over half.

391
00:24:05,287 --> 00:24:11,527
had comfortable range and there was no
reason to sit there and pay 64 cents a

392
00:24:11,527 --> 00:24:14,707
kilowatt hour any more than I needed to.

393
00:24:15,087 --> 00:24:17,847
But, yeah.

394
00:24:17,967 --> 00:24:25,967
So I think the challenge comes and this is
really something that no automakers have

395
00:24:25,967 --> 00:24:27,807
dealt with because they don't have

396
00:24:27,819 --> 00:24:34,879
The challenge comes not with the first
buyer of these new EVs because four out of

397
00:24:34,879 --> 00:24:38,339
five, I've said this before, I think I
said this last time, four out of five

398
00:24:38,339 --> 00:24:44,459
households that have the income to be able
to buy a new car of any sort at an average

399
00:24:44,459 --> 00:24:48,299
price of $48 ,000 have dedicated off
-street parking.

400
00:24:48,299 --> 00:24:54,459
Only one in five really don't have a place
to charge, whether they street park or

401
00:24:54,459 --> 00:24:57,839
whether they're a really expensive condo
or whatever it may

402
00:24:58,045 --> 00:25:04,258
So those people will find their ways to
charging at home, overnight, and or at

403
00:25:04,258 --> 00:25:06,138
work.

404
00:25:06,399 --> 00:25:11,861
the automakers are kind of, you know,
that's how our data says people will

405
00:25:11,861 --> 00:25:12,982
charge.

406
00:25:13,482 --> 00:25:16,744
It's just that they don't have to, car
makers sell new cars.

407
00:25:16,744 --> 00:25:19,835
They don't have to care about the used car
market, which is two and a half times as

408
00:25:19,835 --> 00:25:20,666
large.

409
00:25:20,666 --> 00:25:24,327
It's a much harder problem for the used
car

410
00:25:26,036 --> 00:25:32,053
Yeah, it's, it kind of reminds me of a,
recently went to a dealership to help with

411
00:25:32,053 --> 00:25:35,897
Kevin education thing and it was very.

412
00:25:36,386 --> 00:25:41,846
interesting approaching them on both and
talking to them about not just the new

413
00:25:41,846 --> 00:25:48,506
used car sales of EVs but, I'm sorry,
selling new EVs but then also how to price

414
00:25:48,506 --> 00:25:53,646
it against like a used EV and then the
idea of the $4 ,000 credit that you can, a

415
00:25:53,646 --> 00:25:57,626
lot of people would qualify for it just
gets to a point, unfortunately, where it

416
00:25:57,626 --> 00:25:59,366
just seems like they don't want to deal
with it.

417
00:25:59,366 --> 00:26:02,906
It makes it too complicated in the sale
but you're totally right.

418
00:26:02,906 --> 00:26:06,646
I think that that is a market that's
really under

419
00:26:07,680 --> 00:26:12,405
I just talked about and kind of built for
the right support to get people who may be

420
00:26:12,405 --> 00:26:16,138
Interested or even have a lifestyle that
would work for an EV and don't fully

421
00:26:16,138 --> 00:26:20,332
appreciate that or understand that And
it's just the resources when you go to buy

422
00:26:20,332 --> 00:26:24,055
a car definitely do not incentivize that
kind of conversation Unfortunately, it

423
00:26:24,055 --> 00:26:25,796
seems like to me at least right

424
00:26:25,951 --> 00:26:30,193
Yeah, the folks who think most about this
are the ones who are involved in questions

425
00:26:30,193 --> 00:26:38,356
of charging equity and making public EV
charging available to those households

426
00:26:38,356 --> 00:26:45,299
that are not necessarily wealthy suburban
or urban households that can buy new cars.

427
00:26:45,299 --> 00:26:50,721
But how do you make it possible for lower
income families, people who are much more

428
00:26:50,721 --> 00:26:54,883
likely to live in multiple dwellings to
own an EV practically?

429
00:26:54,883 --> 00:26:55,983
And you

430
00:26:56,267 --> 00:27:01,947
a single public charging station eight
blocks away is probably not that.

431
00:27:01,967 --> 00:27:04,727
So these are tougher questions.

432
00:27:06,067 --> 00:27:12,087
Used EV prices seem, they plummeted at one
point, they seem to be returning, and

433
00:27:12,087 --> 00:27:15,787
there's a lot of variation depending on
what the car's range is.

434
00:27:15,787 --> 00:27:21,167
We now see a lot of used Tesla Model 3s,
so that's a range over 200 miles.

435
00:27:21,387 --> 00:27:28,847
use Nissan Leafs that started out at 76
miles or 115 miles or whatever and have

436
00:27:28,847 --> 00:27:32,547
battery degradation, that's an entirely
different piece of the market and

437
00:27:32,547 --> 00:27:35,607
justifiably many, many people simply won't
consider

438
00:27:37,042 --> 00:27:40,604
Well, I think it's really interesting to
the price point that a lot of those are

439
00:27:40,604 --> 00:27:44,005
like you can easily get one for like six
thousand bucks.

440
00:27:44,245 --> 00:27:47,947
And if it kind of goes back to exactly
what you're talking about, if you have two

441
00:27:47,947 --> 00:27:51,459
or three cars and you just need a round
town vehicle and you have that luxury, why

442
00:27:51,459 --> 00:27:51,699
not?

443
00:27:51,699 --> 00:27:53,490
It's kind of it makes a lot of sense.

444
00:27:53,490 --> 00:27:56,721
But if you're in the situation where it
needs to be your primary vehicle to get

445
00:27:56,721 --> 00:27:58,012
around day to day, you're totally right.

446
00:27:58,012 --> 00:27:59,732
There's definitely a struggle there.

447
00:27:59,933 --> 00:28:08,470
And I think there is data that shows that
lower income households put more miles on

448
00:28:08,470 --> 00:28:11,593
their vehicles than do higher income
households.

449
00:28:11,593 --> 00:28:15,646
I don't know that's because higher income
households can split among more vehicles.

450
00:28:15,646 --> 00:28:19,599
I think the average American household has
two point something vehicles.

451
00:28:19,599 --> 00:28:21,291
The average high income U .S.

452
00:28:21,291 --> 00:28:23,743
household has three point something
vehicles.

453
00:28:23,743 --> 00:28:28,086
But especially if they're living in a
place and they have to drive a long way to

454
00:28:28,086 --> 00:28:29,447
get to a job.

455
00:28:30,970 --> 00:28:36,811
a what we in the northeast call a commuter
car or a station car probably isn't going

456
00:28:36,811 --> 00:28:42,431
to cut it because that could be a 30 to 60
mile trip each way every

457
00:28:42,715 --> 00:28:43,975
Right.

458
00:28:44,175 --> 00:28:46,095
Now that's kind of the area where I'm at
too.

459
00:28:46,095 --> 00:28:49,535
It's like it's easily in that bracket
where just unless you unless you want to

460
00:28:49,535 --> 00:28:53,095
really risk it in the winter and you have
charging at work, it just doesn't seem

461
00:28:53,095 --> 00:28:55,975
feasible for a lot of people to have that
stress of it.

462
00:28:56,015 --> 00:29:00,595
But enough about the challenges of used
EVs.

463
00:29:00,595 --> 00:29:06,355
Let's talk about the Polestar 5 that you
recently drove and did an article on.

464
00:29:06,355 --> 00:29:07,275
Oh, OK.

465
00:29:07,275 --> 00:29:08,655
Oh, got you.

466
00:29:08,891 --> 00:29:11,051
So I give Polestar credit.

467
00:29:11,051 --> 00:29:16,311
They've been extremely quiet because they
really only had one vehicle for four years

468
00:29:16,311 --> 00:29:22,491
now, three years now, the Polestar 2,
which to their credit, they have

469
00:29:22,491 --> 00:29:24,071
continuously refined.

470
00:29:24,071 --> 00:29:28,351
I think the industry was quite shocked
when they said, nah, the single motor one

471
00:29:28,351 --> 00:29:31,591
front drive, that's for low end economy
stuff.

472
00:29:31,591 --> 00:29:33,051
We're going to make it rear drive.

473
00:29:33,419 --> 00:29:36,239
Which, to be fair, Volkswagen had done.

474
00:29:36,239 --> 00:29:38,159
Some of the Hyundai's are that way.

475
00:29:39,499 --> 00:29:46,819
But the Polestar 2 has indeed been
upgraded multiple times.

476
00:29:47,179 --> 00:29:50,179
And I had the interesting experience.

477
00:29:51,179 --> 00:29:57,719
I have driven right -hand drive cars, and
three weeks ago I drove one for quite a

478
00:29:57,719 --> 00:29:58,939
long distance.

479
00:30:00,139 --> 00:30:00,947
excuse

480
00:30:00,947 --> 00:30:04,558
I drove in a right -hand drive country in
a left -hand drive car, but driving a

481
00:30:04,558 --> 00:30:11,840
right -hand drive car in England for a
couple hundred miles really, it took a

482
00:30:11,840 --> 00:30:17,071
while for the, you'll never forget how to
ride a bicycle skills to come back.

483
00:30:17,792 --> 00:30:21,643
I've found I have to turn on a little
voice just behind my left ear that

484
00:30:21,643 --> 00:30:25,634
constantly says, stay left, stay left,
stay left, stay left, stay left.

485
00:30:25,634 --> 00:30:29,451
And it worked, didn't hit anything and
actually,

486
00:30:29,451 --> 00:30:33,611
The nice gentleman from Polestar the
second day said you're fine.

487
00:30:33,611 --> 00:30:40,211
I'm gonna ride with some of the other
people so but Polestar finally has a

488
00:30:40,211 --> 00:30:47,751
product line the Polestar 3 which is their
SUV same platform as the Volvo EX90 both

489
00:30:47,751 --> 00:30:52,471
of those vehicles are now entering early
production in South Carolina in a plant

490
00:30:52,471 --> 00:30:58,571
built for that purpose and Polestar will
also have the

491
00:30:59,339 --> 00:31:09,999
which is one of those peculiar coupe
crossover hatchback, fastback, somethings,

492
00:31:09,999 --> 00:31:12,439
and doesn't have a rear window.

493
00:31:12,439 --> 00:31:16,039
But those two cars will pad out the
lineup.

494
00:31:16,039 --> 00:31:20,099
So you'll have the two, three, four, and
now it's time for Polestar to talk about

495
00:31:20,099 --> 00:31:25,459
what's coming next year, which will be a
2026 Polestar 5.

496
00:31:25,459 --> 00:31:28,096
It is in simplest terms,

497
00:31:28,096 --> 00:31:35,241
their competitor for the Tesla Model S,
the Porsche, Panamera, and Taycan, and

498
00:31:35,241 --> 00:31:37,602
cars of that category.

499
00:31:38,743 --> 00:31:43,786
High dollar, luxury, sporty, four -door
sedans.

500
00:31:44,327 --> 00:31:52,893
And they built an R &D facility in England
because while England just has the remains

501
00:31:52,893 --> 00:31:56,629
of an auto industry, Jaguar Rover Triumph
is, or excuse

502
00:31:56,629 --> 00:32:01,823
Jaguar Land Rover is allowed to dispute
that, there's not what there used to be.

503
00:32:01,823 --> 00:32:07,028
England still is stuffed with really good
automotive engineering.

504
00:32:07,028 --> 00:32:12,082
It's where most of Formula One comes out
of, enormous amounts of motorsport, and

505
00:32:12,082 --> 00:32:15,954
that's all centered in the Midlands around
a town called Coventry.

506
00:32:16,235 --> 00:32:23,070
And so they opened an R &D shop there
three odd, maybe four years ago, and

507
00:32:23,070 --> 00:32:26,411
they've just expanded it and taken another
property

508
00:32:26,411 --> 00:32:30,251
more than twice as big because they found
their engineers were spending a lot of

509
00:32:30,251 --> 00:32:32,891
time just playing Jenga and parking cars.

510
00:32:33,891 --> 00:32:36,391
And so we got to tour both shops.

511
00:32:37,491 --> 00:32:41,751
The Polestar 5 is a bonded aluminum
structure.

512
00:32:42,071 --> 00:32:48,211
So in the new facility, they have a
gigantic oven that they simply put the

513
00:32:48,211 --> 00:32:53,311
prototype in to test out different glues,
different temperature cycles, none of

514
00:32:53,311 --> 00:32:54,871
which they'll talk about in detail.

515
00:32:54,871 --> 00:32:56,159
A lot of IP there.

516
00:32:56,159 --> 00:33:05,423
But they are developing the car, some of
the materials, and all of the handling and

517
00:33:05,423 --> 00:33:09,074
what they call the integration, is making
sure all the different pieces, the

518
00:33:09,074 --> 00:33:15,256
interior, the powertrain, the suspension,
the fabrication, all play well together.

519
00:33:16,677 --> 00:33:18,140
That's really interesting.

520
00:33:18,140 --> 00:33:19,924
I had kind been reading a little bit about
that.

521
00:33:19,924 --> 00:33:24,409
I'm curious in your kind of take and
experience of someone

522
00:33:24,409 --> 00:33:29,280
seen a lot of different automakers kind of
position different cars and their

523
00:33:29,280 --> 00:33:30,851
manufacturing styles.

524
00:33:30,851 --> 00:33:33,771
What about this really stood out to you?

525
00:33:33,931 --> 00:33:39,923
And was there anything that good or bad
that you're like, this should this will be

526
00:33:39,923 --> 00:33:41,203
the way moving forward.

527
00:33:41,203 --> 00:33:43,073
A lot of EVs are made.

528
00:33:43,094 --> 00:33:47,035
Or is this still kind of like, yeah, this
would work for a four door high end saloon

529
00:33:47,035 --> 00:33:50,736
like you're talking about, but we're not
going to be seeing more kind of entry

530
00:33:50,736 --> 00:33:52,576
level vehicles made this way.

531
00:33:53,547 --> 00:33:58,547
It is not a very high volume process.

532
00:33:59,167 --> 00:34:04,947
Stamping stuff out of steel is known and
above a certain volume of production.

533
00:34:04,987 --> 00:34:07,067
It's cheaper and easier.

534
00:34:08,667 --> 00:34:17,027
The Polestar 5 has a combination of cast,
milled, and sheet aluminum components

535
00:34:17,027 --> 00:34:20,757
which are bonded together.

536
00:34:20,757 --> 00:34:24,789
They didn't say glued, they always said
bonded, so I noted that.

537
00:34:25,690 --> 00:34:33,096
But it is inevitably a more step
-intensive process than stamping an entire

538
00:34:33,096 --> 00:34:37,377
side of a vehicle and simply having robots
welded all together.

539
00:34:37,899 --> 00:34:43,713
What it does allow, according to them, is
once you get the basic platform, you can

540
00:34:43,713 --> 00:34:49,927
do different vehicles, new top hats as
they call them, really, really

541
00:34:50,219 --> 00:34:54,439
And so, the Polestar 5 is the four -door
luxury sedan.

542
00:34:54,559 --> 00:34:56,179
They talked a little bit.

543
00:34:56,179 --> 00:35:02,179
They acknowledged the Polestar 6, which is
going to be their sports car, but on the

544
00:35:02,179 --> 00:35:03,379
same platform.

545
00:35:03,379 --> 00:35:07,119
Shorter, no foot garage in the battery, as
we discovered.

546
00:35:07,739 --> 00:35:12,879
But it'll have the same 111 kilowatt -hour
battery pack, 800 -volt architecture, et

547
00:35:12,879 --> 00:35:13,739
cetera.

548
00:35:13,779 --> 00:35:19,099
They expect the 6 to take only a fraction
of the development time.

549
00:35:19,145 --> 00:35:22,836
that the five did to develop the whole
platform.

550
00:35:22,937 --> 00:35:30,520
And I think it is inevitable there will be
Volvos and some other Geli brands on that

551
00:35:30,520 --> 00:35:32,520
architecture as well.

552
00:35:32,600 --> 00:35:40,674
As the CEO, name is Engelman, last said,
it would be selfish of us to keep it all

553
00:35:40,674 --> 00:35:42,324
for ourselves.

554
00:35:42,625 --> 00:35:45,106
Translation, yep, they're gonna use it
too.

555
00:35:45,106 --> 00:35:48,787
But they are, is Polestar's

556
00:35:49,579 --> 00:35:56,019
a unique platform, dedicated platform,
because the 2 was on the same platform as

557
00:35:56,019 --> 00:36:01,479
the, let get this right now, XC40 recharge
and C40.

558
00:36:02,139 --> 00:36:11,319
And the 3 is on the EX90 platform and the
4 is on, I'm forgetting the numbers, but I

559
00:36:11,319 --> 00:36:13,779
think it's a variant of the EX30 platform.

560
00:36:13,779 --> 00:36:17,499
So, this is for the moment unique to
Polestar.

561
00:36:17,821 --> 00:36:19,712
It was fun talking to British engineers.

562
00:36:19,712 --> 00:36:22,893
I have a little bit of Britain in my
background.

563
00:36:23,534 --> 00:36:27,086
one of the great things of all of those
engineers have worked on a prodigious

564
00:36:27,086 --> 00:36:31,478
variety of vehicles over their
professional careers.

565
00:36:32,239 --> 00:36:37,552
A portion of their team actually came from
a different consulting on a different G

566
00:36:37,552 --> 00:36:42,544
-Leap product, which was the plug -in
hybrid EV London taxi.

567
00:36:42,544 --> 00:36:45,186
Those black taxis are now plug -in
hybrids.

568
00:36:45,186 --> 00:36:47,227
You couldn't get more different than

569
00:36:47,627 --> 00:36:53,507
and the Polestar 5, but some of the
underlying technology, including aluminum

570
00:36:53,507 --> 00:36:55,307
bonding, same stuff.

571
00:36:56,207 --> 00:36:59,987
And the London taxi by nature is a fairly
low volume one.

572
00:36:59,987 --> 00:37:07,747
So I discovered that one of the engineers
as a very young man had worked on

573
00:37:07,747 --> 00:37:12,927
suspension tuning for my very own Isuzu
Impulse from 1991.

574
00:37:12,927 --> 00:37:13,827
Who knew?

575
00:37:13,827 --> 00:37:14,827
It's a car

576
00:37:14,955 --> 00:37:19,335
You know, I can show it to auto industry
people or other auto journalists.

577
00:37:19,595 --> 00:37:23,735
Even a lot of them don't really know what
it is because this is just not making cars

578
00:37:23,735 --> 00:37:26,115
32 years ago.

579
00:37:26,675 --> 00:37:31,895
And he grinned and he said, oh, I spent a
lot of time on that car at Fujisawa.

580
00:37:31,895 --> 00:37:34,035
So that was a nice little connection.

581
00:37:35,259 --> 00:37:37,422
That is quite the small world connection
there.

582
00:37:37,422 --> 00:37:39,014
But yeah, it is really interesting.

583
00:37:39,014 --> 00:37:40,965
The overlap

584
00:37:42,095 --> 00:37:45,727
a lot of these Chinese car brand, Chinese
EV brands, especially that are kind of

585
00:37:45,727 --> 00:37:49,238
doubling down, in the UK for your, you're
totally right.

586
00:37:49,238 --> 00:37:55,001
Of the kind of high density of, very
skilled automotive engineers.

587
00:37:55,041 --> 00:37:59,163
And some of that being from kind of racing
and formula one that I think not only is

588
00:37:59,163 --> 00:38:03,345
it platform building at scale, but it's
also trying to kind of get out a lot of

589
00:38:03,345 --> 00:38:06,666
the weight that have plagued some of the
traditional EVs.

590
00:38:06,867 --> 00:38:08,928
I'm, I am kind of curious on your
thoughts.

591
00:38:08,928 --> 00:38:11,909
I mean, you, you were having the same
issue I have all the time

592
00:38:13,253 --> 00:38:17,165
Polestar and Volvo making some really
interesting products, but there just seems

593
00:38:17,165 --> 00:38:23,848
to be a lot of gray area as to remembering
which is which and the kind of like how

594
00:38:23,848 --> 00:38:24,448
they divert.

595
00:38:24,448 --> 00:38:25,399
mean, it used to make sense.

596
00:38:25,399 --> 00:38:28,380
Polestar was Volvo's like in brand.

597
00:38:28,380 --> 00:38:30,251
So that was like the high end stuff.

598
00:38:30,251 --> 00:38:33,853
And now you're starting to see this kind
of more and more overlap.

599
00:38:33,853 --> 00:38:36,524
Some of that due to the parent company,
Gili.

600
00:38:36,524 --> 00:38:41,956
But I'm kind of curious in what you saw
and kind of touring the factory and having

601
00:38:41,956 --> 00:38:43,187
the kind of more hands

602
00:38:43,187 --> 00:38:44,068
experience.

603
00:38:44,068 --> 00:38:50,072
How would you define the Polestar brand
versus Volvo right now?

604
00:38:50,072 --> 00:38:56,608
Is it still kind of trying to be more of a
premium drivers car brand?

605
00:38:56,608 --> 00:39:01,782
Because it seems like both Volvo and to
some extent Polestar are kind of like

606
00:39:01,782 --> 00:39:05,034
Polestar is less about the hardcore driver
and it seems like Volvo with some of their

607
00:39:05,034 --> 00:39:07,676
products they've almost been pushing the
driver experience and I feel like there's

608
00:39:07,676 --> 00:39:09,867
been more and more overlap in that space.

609
00:39:09,931 --> 00:39:12,971
I think that's on the right lines.

610
00:39:12,971 --> 00:39:16,931
This is a question that I pressed in the
marathon fairly hard.

611
00:39:17,551 --> 00:39:21,391
When the Polestar 2 was introduced, I took
a picture of a slide that sort of said,

612
00:39:21,391 --> 00:39:24,231
here's what Volvo is, here's what Polestar
is.

613
00:39:24,271 --> 00:39:30,591
Volvo, both of them have versions of
clean, modern Swedish design.

614
00:39:31,111 --> 00:39:36,731
And Polestar is not a Chinese company, as
he said about 90 times, it is a Swedish

615
00:39:36,731 --> 00:39:38,451
and European company.

616
00:39:39,243 --> 00:39:43,903
that has chosen to manufacture in China,
but it is rapidly diversifying its

617
00:39:43,903 --> 00:39:48,603
manufacturing footprint all over the world
because trade tensions, obviously.

618
00:39:50,543 --> 00:39:59,543
Volvo, essentially, at least in 2021, was
more about the sensual feel, woods,

619
00:39:59,543 --> 00:40:08,331
leathers, making things interesting,
intuitive, and easier for its customers.

620
00:40:08,331 --> 00:40:14,091
Whereas Polestar was a much techier
audience, if you like, a lot on

621
00:40:14,091 --> 00:40:16,011
sustainable materials.

622
00:40:16,370 --> 00:40:20,111
The comparison was made between the
interior of a Polestar 2 and a really

623
00:40:20,111 --> 00:40:21,811
expensive running shoe.

624
00:40:21,871 --> 00:40:28,591
Lots and lots of sort of mesh weaves out
of recycled plastics, things of this ilk.

625
00:40:29,831 --> 00:40:32,431
Not the pastels so much.

626
00:40:32,431 --> 00:40:36,111
Many, many, different shades of black and
gray and silver.

627
00:40:36,132 --> 00:40:36,945
right.

628
00:40:38,507 --> 00:40:44,892
Polestar wants to be seen as a performance
brand in the traditional European vein,

629
00:40:44,892 --> 00:40:50,317
which is to say you can customize
suspension settings, steering settings,

630
00:40:50,317 --> 00:40:52,599
power delivery settings, etc.

631
00:40:52,599 --> 00:40:54,340
as much as you want.

632
00:40:54,340 --> 00:40:57,042
Volvo, think, is not going to let you do
that.

633
00:40:57,042 --> 00:41:02,917
Volvo has a sense of how its cars work,
how its drivers should use them, and it's

634
00:41:02,917 --> 00:41:04,669
all about cosseting.

635
00:41:04,669 --> 00:41:07,430
Whereas, if I had to put it in one word,

636
00:41:07,975 --> 00:41:09,796
much more about interacting.

637
00:41:10,185 --> 00:41:10,665
Interesting.

638
00:41:10,665 --> 00:41:11,566
Okay.

639
00:41:11,626 --> 00:41:15,598
And you mentioned that I know it had been
talked about, I believe, South Carolina is

640
00:41:15,598 --> 00:41:18,771
where Polestar's North American facilities
will be.

641
00:41:18,771 --> 00:41:22,243
Does that mean it qualifies for the IRA or
parts of it?

642
00:41:22,243 --> 00:41:26,464
Or are the batteries still imported so
it's not fully, do you know?

643
00:41:26,464 --> 00:41:29,097
Okay.

644
00:41:29,865 --> 00:41:37,368
Volvo and Polestar clearly are going to be
highly aware of the rules around those

645
00:41:37,368 --> 00:41:38,628
incentives.

646
00:41:39,329 --> 00:41:43,561
Volvo for a while, I think, was planning
to use the Get Out of Jail Free card,

647
00:41:43,561 --> 00:41:49,813
which is the tariff offset for exports
program.

648
00:41:49,813 --> 00:41:53,835
But they have now essentially suspended

649
00:41:53,835 --> 00:42:00,115
the arrival of the EX -30, the small cheap
one, which I drove last summer, or last

650
00:42:00,115 --> 00:42:06,575
fall I think, until they can be built in
Europe and exported to the U .S.

651
00:42:06,575 --> 00:42:12,795
because they might have been able to
swallow a 27 % tariff or offset it.

652
00:42:12,795 --> 00:42:17,855
Offsetting a 100 % tariff is a somewhat
different kettle of fish.

653
00:42:17,855 --> 00:42:20,875
And so in that sense, the U .S.

654
00:42:20,875 --> 00:42:22,255
will not have

655
00:42:22,371 --> 00:42:30,551
a cheap Chinese EV from a European brand,
the X30, until it can be made in Europe.

656
00:42:30,551 --> 00:42:32,543
And the question is, will it remain as

657
00:42:33,853 --> 00:42:34,313
for sure.

658
00:42:34,313 --> 00:42:38,473
And it's kind of interesting to see the X
30 launch because I've I've heard overall

659
00:42:38,473 --> 00:42:43,073
positive things about it as a car, but it
does seem like it's also suffered at least

660
00:42:43,073 --> 00:42:46,233
talking to some people in Europe, some of
the similar issues with a lot of the

661
00:42:46,233 --> 00:42:51,273
recent EV launches of software bugs and
kind of the day to day experience of it.

662
00:42:51,273 --> 00:42:53,673
But I guess I'm also curious.

663
00:42:55,453 --> 00:42:56,005
Yeah.

664
00:42:56,005 --> 00:42:58,995
driving a test fiscar when the company
declared bankruptcy.

665
00:42:58,995 --> 00:43:00,979
That has never happened before.

666
00:43:01,117 --> 00:43:01,958
I'm kind of curious.

667
00:43:01,958 --> 00:43:04,864
What is there anything for those listening
that you would like to share in your

668
00:43:04,864 --> 00:43:09,832
experience of not only just driving the
Fisker Ocean, but like literally reviewing

669
00:43:09,832 --> 00:43:12,796
it while that was all kind of happening in
real time.

670
00:43:12,875 --> 00:43:17,275
Luckily my contacts still answered my
texts the day after.

671
00:43:20,235 --> 00:43:23,015
That was the question for about 80 people.

672
00:43:23,015 --> 00:43:24,175
You're going to keep the car?

673
00:43:24,175 --> 00:43:26,515
No, they took our back.

674
00:43:27,735 --> 00:43:29,335
So a couple of things.

675
00:43:29,335 --> 00:43:33,095
It's a perfectly adequate SUV.

676
00:43:33,095 --> 00:43:38,335
It has some interesting features like
every single window, including the third

677
00:43:38,335 --> 00:43:41,135
window that's fixed on every other SUV in
the world.

678
00:43:41,705 --> 00:43:46,536
rolls down into the door, you can open the
glass roof so you have, I forget what it's

679
00:43:46,536 --> 00:43:49,257
called, beach mode, ocean mode, something
like that.

680
00:43:50,577 --> 00:43:51,968
California mode, thank you.

681
00:43:51,968 --> 00:43:54,118
I knew it was something like that.

682
00:43:54,479 --> 00:43:56,089
It's an interesting feature.

683
00:43:56,089 --> 00:44:00,380
I kind of chalk it up as a gimmick because
how often do you really want to put down

684
00:44:00,380 --> 00:44:04,501
all six windows, all seven windows,
because the tailgate one drops too, in

685
00:44:04,501 --> 00:44:05,442
your SUV.

686
00:44:05,442 --> 00:44:08,322
What's the use case for this?

687
00:44:09,082 --> 00:44:11,365
But the powertrain worked fine.

688
00:44:11,365 --> 00:44:16,869
My problem, and I had version two of the
Fisker software, I think they didn't

689
00:44:16,869 --> 00:44:19,562
really give out a lot of cars till that
was there.

690
00:44:19,562 --> 00:44:25,406
But my problem was that still it randomly
flashed, things are not working lights.

691
00:44:25,887 --> 00:44:31,151
And of course, while I was driving with my
better half, who seems to be with me

692
00:44:31,151 --> 00:44:37,756
whenever a British car fails to proceed
and an electric car melts down, I was

693
00:44:37,756 --> 00:44:41,299
driving with him when every single light
on the dash lit

694
00:44:41,387 --> 00:44:43,807
and it said basically pull over now.

695
00:44:43,967 --> 00:44:48,847
So I pulled over now and having had
virtually the same experience in other

696
00:44:48,847 --> 00:44:55,727
cars, go online, on your phone, look on
YouTube, how do you do a put it to sleep

697
00:44:55,727 --> 00:44:58,407
and do a full cold reboot?

698
00:44:58,507 --> 00:45:03,067
Luckily I found it, took less than 10
minutes and then only one or two of the

699
00:45:03,067 --> 00:45:09,047
lights lit up at random for the rest of my
three weeks and most of them went away

700
00:45:09,047 --> 00:45:10,067
after a

701
00:45:11,507 --> 00:45:16,036
If you're looking, apparently used Fiskars
with not a lot of miles are going in the

702
00:45:16,036 --> 00:45:17,688
mid -high 20s at the

703
00:45:17,688 --> 00:45:18,922
Which is wild.

704
00:45:21,730 --> 00:45:24,567
Which is, believe the price they were
saying they were gonna originally launch

705
00:45:24,567 --> 00:45:30,261
at and then it kinda came up to 60s, 70s
and unfortunately, we'll never know.

706
00:45:30,363 --> 00:45:31,087
Right.

707
00:45:31,087 --> 00:45:32,567
% out of the price.

708
00:45:32,646 --> 00:45:38,430
yeah, it is the definition of an orphan
make at this point.

709
00:45:38,430 --> 00:45:39,661
Yeah.

710
00:45:40,182 --> 00:45:45,426
I guess speaking of just EVs again in
general, we were just talking about the

711
00:45:45,426 --> 00:45:46,747
tax credit.

712
00:45:47,047 --> 00:45:51,231
What in your experience or what kind of
are your thoughts on is that really

713
00:45:51,231 --> 00:45:54,143
helping to move the needle or is it kind
of overcomplicated?

714
00:45:54,143 --> 00:45:59,568
Because it really does seem, I haven't
been checking it too closely the last few

715
00:45:59,568 --> 00:46:03,601
months, but it seems like the main company
that's probably getting it right now still

716
00:46:03,601 --> 00:46:06,383
is Tesla due to I think

717
00:46:06,792 --> 00:46:10,754
some Mockeys or some of the Ford products
maybe are getting a little bit more.

718
00:46:10,835 --> 00:46:19,541
But do you think that that is a benefit or
is that really like a motivating reason to

719
00:46:19,541 --> 00:46:23,603
go to an EV or is it a program that needs
to be maybe rethought about?

720
00:46:24,587 --> 00:46:28,569
I just look at it through the lens of
price.

721
00:46:29,389 --> 00:46:35,092
One of the concerns of late, and it's a
valid concern, is that EVs are more

722
00:46:35,092 --> 00:46:41,774
expensive still than vehicles in their
same segment with gasoline engines.

723
00:46:41,774 --> 00:46:44,666
True, in most cases.

724
00:46:44,666 --> 00:46:48,157
And the whole goal of the incentive was to
knock that down.

725
00:46:49,258 --> 00:46:52,799
So there were changes a couple years

726
00:46:52,875 --> 00:46:54,695
Good changes and bad changes.

727
00:46:54,695 --> 00:47:00,715
The best change was that instead of having
to wait somewhere between, you know, two

728
00:47:00,715 --> 00:47:06,015
and 16 months to see if you could knock it
off your taxes, it is now a point of

729
00:47:06,015 --> 00:47:10,335
purchase rebate, which dealers will call
cash on the hood.

730
00:47:10,335 --> 00:47:14,355
And cash on the hood is always a good
thing for buying a car.

731
00:47:14,675 --> 00:47:19,035
The tougher part, however, is that now
there are increasingly stringent

732
00:47:19,035 --> 00:47:21,407
requirements on where the car was built.

733
00:47:21,407 --> 00:47:29,914
has to be a NAFTA country, where the
battery is built and where the minerals

734
00:47:29,914 --> 00:47:33,736
for the cells come from.

735
00:47:34,838 --> 00:47:41,873
my personal opinion is that those are
necessary requirements to build a domestic

736
00:47:41,873 --> 00:47:45,346
industry, cell industry, mining, et
cetera.

737
00:47:45,547 --> 00:47:49,530
Things we haven't really done because we
were quite happy to outsource to China

738
00:47:49,530 --> 00:47:51,595
almost everything for.

739
00:47:51,595 --> 00:47:53,135
30 years.

740
00:47:53,515 --> 00:47:59,115
And unless we want China to control the
bulk of the cars that we buy, which I

741
00:47:59,115 --> 00:48:05,735
think is a bad thing for America, I think
these are appropriate measures.

742
00:48:06,655 --> 00:48:12,655
you know, my friends in Washington did not
call it the IRA.

743
00:48:12,655 --> 00:48:18,449
They called it the mansion bill because he
was behind a lot of those.

744
00:48:18,449 --> 00:48:22,862
there is of course the leasing loophole
which you could drive semi through.

745
00:48:22,862 --> 00:48:28,234
So those requirements on sourcing and
minerals assembly and so on only apply if

746
00:48:28,234 --> 00:48:29,465
you're buying the car.

747
00:48:29,465 --> 00:48:33,727
If you are leasing the car, every single
EV qualifies.

748
00:48:34,148 --> 00:48:39,521
dealers are ramping up their explanations
of how does the lease work for a whole

749
00:48:39,521 --> 00:48:43,252
bunch of people who never thought about
leasing but want an EV.

750
00:48:44,373 --> 00:48:47,115
So I don't have data

751
00:48:47,339 --> 00:48:54,234
talk about the effect, you're right that
Tesla's highest volume model qualifies for

752
00:48:54,234 --> 00:48:56,265
that incentive.

753
00:48:56,665 --> 00:48:58,946
Some of its other models do not.

754
00:48:59,267 --> 00:49:04,690
And I've almost given up trying to track
Tesla's spec changes, price changes,

755
00:49:04,871 --> 00:49:07,552
battery tech changes, et cetera.

756
00:49:08,293 --> 00:49:14,678
But clearly the trend is for more and more
automakers to onshore production.

757
00:49:14,678 --> 00:49:16,885
Hyundai and Kia have their EV plant.

758
00:49:16,885 --> 00:49:18,926
coming online later this year.

759
00:49:18,926 --> 00:49:27,131
Volvo did it, et cetera, et cetera, et And
so that's one of the components, sourcing

760
00:49:27,131 --> 00:49:29,162
minerals elsewhere and so on.

761
00:49:29,162 --> 00:49:34,745
I think three years from now, many, many,
many more vehicles will qualify for that

762
00:49:34,745 --> 00:49:38,046
credit on a purchase basis than do

763
00:49:39,854 --> 00:49:43,371
Yeah, it's interesting you mentioned that
and one, just want to say that was

764
00:49:43,374 --> 00:49:47,856
very articulate and well said breakdown of
its not only evolution of where it stands

765
00:49:47,856 --> 00:49:48,807
today.

766
00:49:49,667 --> 00:49:52,739
So if there is anyone listening that
didn't know the details, I'm sure they

767
00:49:52,739 --> 00:49:53,489
know all of it now.

768
00:49:53,489 --> 00:49:58,602
But yeah, I know a lot of you advocates
were actually really annoyed as you say by

769
00:49:58,602 --> 00:50:00,453
the mansion bill or kind of the addition
to it.

770
00:50:00,453 --> 00:50:03,695
I thought that that was personally a good
thing.

771
00:50:03,995 --> 00:50:07,537
I think it kind of gave more value to give
that sort of discount in addition to it

772
00:50:07,537 --> 00:50:08,998
being a UV.

773
00:50:09,018 --> 00:50:11,459
But I'm just kind of curious.

774
00:50:11,459 --> 00:50:12,379
Have you

775
00:50:13,197 --> 00:50:17,977
What have you like reviewed any hybrids or
even just combustion vehicles in the last

776
00:50:17,977 --> 00:50:22,637
year or two that Maybe I don't know you
did the new Prius right like anything

777
00:50:22,637 --> 00:50:27,117
that's under anyway 35 ,000 and I think
there's something to be said that new cars

778
00:50:27,117 --> 00:50:31,857
have become so expensive anyways but when
you look at the delta between most new

779
00:50:31,857 --> 00:50:37,737
cars and evs especially now with like the
Equinox and some others really coming out

780
00:50:37,737 --> 00:50:39,157
of the market right now like

781
00:50:39,539 --> 00:50:46,131
look at a lot of the new prices even
without the tax credit and EVs are already

782
00:50:46,131 --> 00:50:48,731
kind of cheaper and so I think that's
where it's been just kind of interesting

783
00:50:48,731 --> 00:50:54,213
to see and I don't know if that's due to
kind of the price war we're just seeing

784
00:50:54,213 --> 00:50:58,404
across the space in general but I'm kind
of curious on your thought as someone who

785
00:50:58,404 --> 00:51:03,825
reviews a lot more cars than I do around
the kind of current prices of not just EVs

786
00:51:03,825 --> 00:51:06,556
but also combustion vehicles.

787
00:51:07,525 --> 00:51:13,297
I so one of the things is that the
cheapest vehicles in America by and large

788
00:51:13,297 --> 00:51:14,697
are the smallest.

789
00:51:14,837 --> 00:51:17,358
It would have been small sedans and
hatchbacks.

790
00:51:17,358 --> 00:51:22,999
Now it's some small sedans and some small
SUVs and they're they're crossovers.

791
00:51:22,999 --> 00:51:24,470
A lot of them.

792
00:51:24,470 --> 00:51:29,101
A few of them you can't even get all wheel
drive, which for me is the defining

793
00:51:29,101 --> 00:51:30,581
utility benefit.

794
00:51:30,581 --> 00:51:36,445
But those vehicles don't have direct
straight across.

795
00:51:36,445 --> 00:51:38,777
equivalence in the EV world yet.

796
00:51:38,777 --> 00:51:45,462
You're really moving up a segment to the
larger compact crossovers where the

797
00:51:45,462 --> 00:51:51,037
Equinox comes in along with some Hyundai
Kia entries and I suppose the Mustang Mach

798
00:51:51,037 --> 00:51:53,549
-E sort of in there as well.

799
00:51:54,110 --> 00:52:00,875
But the bulk of the EVs available today
are luxury or premium or mid -sized or

800
00:52:00,875 --> 00:52:01,936
full -size.

801
00:52:02,997 --> 00:52:05,359
My standard lecture on this is

802
00:52:05,963 --> 00:52:14,277
Traditionally, new technology in
automotive vehicles comes in at the top of

803
00:52:14,277 --> 00:52:19,469
the market in either luxury or performance
because it's really expensive.

804
00:52:19,469 --> 00:52:23,911
And then over time, auto engineers are
extremely good at making it smaller, more

805
00:52:23,911 --> 00:52:26,972
reliable, more compact, less expensive.

806
00:52:26,992 --> 00:52:29,473
And over time, it filters down.

807
00:52:30,333 --> 00:52:31,794
Tesla understood that.

808
00:52:31,794 --> 00:52:34,411
They started with the Roadster, which was
six figures.

809
00:52:34,411 --> 00:52:37,491
Then they came in with the Model S, which
is 75 grand.

810
00:52:37,491 --> 00:52:40,151
Now they have the Model 3 and Model Y.

811
00:52:40,871 --> 00:52:45,891
I continue to be disappointed that they do
not appear to be pursuing the $25 ,000

812
00:52:45,891 --> 00:52:48,071
Tesla anymore, but we'll see.

813
00:52:48,071 --> 00:52:51,411
And I've learned not to make too many
predictions about Tesla.

814
00:52:52,211 --> 00:52:55,371
So I think it's a case of comparing apples
to apples.

815
00:52:55,371 --> 00:52:58,811
You can definitely get a car for 28 grand.

816
00:52:58,911 --> 00:53:01,231
It may be a Toyota Corolla sedan.

817
00:53:01,231 --> 00:53:02,771
There is not.

818
00:53:02,891 --> 00:53:08,071
an electric equivalent of a car in that
package at that price.

819
00:53:08,651 --> 00:53:13,611
I forget where the IONIQ 6 starts, but
that's really more of a Camry competitor

820
00:53:13,611 --> 00:53:16,291
than a Corolla.

821
00:53:17,640 --> 00:53:21,800
And I like like you said, it's so hard to
keep track of where Tesla stuff is now.

822
00:53:21,800 --> 00:53:28,140
And I just know like one of their long
range model threes now is 35 because of

823
00:53:28,140 --> 00:53:29,880
the tech trend magic and all that stuff.

824
00:53:29,880 --> 00:53:32,160
So it has just been really interesting to
see.

825
00:53:32,160 --> 00:53:39,878
And I do agree with you, like a lot of the
entry entry EV sedans are more like a.

826
00:53:39,878 --> 00:53:42,949
decent entry premium because you kind of
have that added benefit of it being

827
00:53:42,949 --> 00:53:43,320
electric.

828
00:53:43,320 --> 00:53:44,430
It's just quieter vehicle.

829
00:53:44,430 --> 00:53:48,102
It's kind of these other kind of tech
features that would be traditionally

830
00:53:48,102 --> 00:53:51,493
reserved for a higher priced combustion
vehicle.

831
00:53:52,054 --> 00:53:55,195
I do want to realize, I realize we're kind
of coming on the end of our time, John.

832
00:53:55,195 --> 00:53:59,967
I don't want to be too selfish because I
could, feel like I can always catch up

833
00:53:59,967 --> 00:54:03,159
with you and talk about this stuff for so
long, but I really want to talk about what

834
00:54:03,159 --> 00:54:06,831
you're doing with the Attempting Fate
tours on YouTube and some of that and try

835
00:54:06,831 --> 00:54:07,511
and squeeze that in.

836
00:54:07,511 --> 00:54:08,271
I apologize.

837
00:54:08,271 --> 00:54:09,802
We didn't give it more time,

838
00:54:09,802 --> 00:54:13,258
I've really enjoyed the videos you're
doing and so for anyone listening, please

839
00:54:13,258 --> 00:54:17,395
just kind of share a little overview and
then I would love to talk with you about

840
00:54:17,395 --> 00:54:19,979
it as much as we can before you have to go
here.

841
00:54:20,203 --> 00:54:22,143
We got about 10 minutes.

842
00:54:22,583 --> 00:54:30,103
So Tempting Fake Tours grew out of me and
a friend in New Hampshire having really

843
00:54:30,103 --> 00:54:33,723
bad cabin fever after pandemic lockdown.

844
00:54:33,723 --> 00:54:38,983
And it was one of those late night emails
with a really stupid subject line that

845
00:54:38,983 --> 00:54:43,483
said something about awesome Sterling
trip, a Sterling being a badly built

846
00:54:43,483 --> 00:54:45,883
British rendition of the Acre legend.

847
00:54:46,923 --> 00:54:48,681
Suffice it to say we...

848
00:54:48,681 --> 00:54:54,774
wanted to take a Sterling from Portland to
Radwood, the show in Austin.

849
00:54:54,774 --> 00:54:56,916
And then we doubled down and bought two of
them.

850
00:54:56,916 --> 00:54:59,877
And we filmed the process.

851
00:54:59,997 --> 00:55:03,659
Somewhere in New Mexico, we discovered
Radwood had been postponed for four weeks,

852
00:55:03,659 --> 00:55:05,580
but we ended up making it to Radwood.

853
00:55:05,580 --> 00:55:07,721
People seemed to like the videos.

854
00:55:08,082 --> 00:55:10,523
We had fun doing goofy car trips.

855
00:55:10,523 --> 00:55:12,944
And so it has sort of sped up from there.

856
00:55:13,865 --> 00:55:17,606
The latest one is clearly our most
ambitious one.

857
00:55:18,379 --> 00:55:25,379
I found my first genuine barn find, a
Morris Minor Traveler, which is a genuine

858
00:55:25,379 --> 00:55:30,919
woody wagon that had sat in a garage in
West LA since 1968.

859
00:55:31,219 --> 00:55:34,699
Seriously, that was the last tag, had not
moved.

860
00:55:35,299 --> 00:55:42,239
Tom decided to buy that one and I have a
1949 very slow, very Art Deco Morris Minor

861
00:55:42,239 --> 00:55:44,299
with 27 horsepower.

862
00:55:45,116 --> 00:55:45,983
Yeah

863
00:55:45,983 --> 00:55:52,266
Condensing down a very long story that's
still slowly rolling out, Tom got the

864
00:55:52,266 --> 00:55:59,740
Traveler running and we are taking both of
those cars overseas to a drive event in

865
00:55:59,740 --> 00:56:04,383
Holland, which has the great advantage
that it's flat and is not very high speed

866
00:56:04,383 --> 00:56:09,055
because these are two really, really slow
cars.

867
00:56:09,916 --> 00:56:13,237
And we're in the process of rolling those
videos out.

868
00:56:13,558 --> 00:56:14,859
There's some explanation.

869
00:56:14,859 --> 00:56:15,915
Surprisingly,

870
00:56:15,915 --> 00:56:21,035
What really seemed to take off was the one
on my 49 minor.

871
00:56:21,035 --> 00:56:27,355
I guess a 1949 car with 19 ,000 miles that
has this really sort of late 30s Art Deco

872
00:56:27,355 --> 00:56:30,515
styling hit a nerve.

873
00:56:30,515 --> 00:56:33,815
But there's lots more to come in that
adventure.

874
00:56:34,075 --> 00:56:40,475
We also ran the Lemons Rally last fall in
a Rally 1 .5, which most people have never

875
00:56:40,475 --> 00:56:41,235
heard of.

876
00:56:41,235 --> 00:56:42,595
My friend Scott's MGB.

877
00:56:42,595 --> 00:56:43,715
We actually won a prize.

878
00:56:43,715 --> 00:56:45,215
Our evil plan worked.

879
00:56:46,155 --> 00:56:53,075
But you can find us at Tempting Fate
Tours, that's Tempting Fate Tours on

880
00:56:53,075 --> 00:56:53,895
YouTube.

881
00:56:54,315 --> 00:56:58,515
subscribe, we love subscribers, we love
comments, we do actually answer all our

882
00:56:58,515 --> 00:57:00,835
comments, but check it out.

883
00:57:01,035 --> 00:57:06,415
This is fun because it's so unlike what I
do professionally with electric vehicles.

884
00:57:06,475 --> 00:57:13,735
I went from driving a 1949 Morris Minor in
England on the left of the road to driving

885
00:57:13,735 --> 00:57:15,255
a 2024.

886
00:57:15,531 --> 00:57:20,471
Polestar 2 and you you would be hard
-pressed to get too much more different

887
00:57:20,471 --> 00:57:21,771
than those vehicles

888
00:57:22,003 --> 00:57:26,283
you're not even sure there's vehicles like
it's like is this comparing it to a steam

889
00:57:26,283 --> 00:57:30,683
engine versus and I have to admit I get a
sick satisfaction out of watching your

890
00:57:30,683 --> 00:57:35,663
videos because I our daily is an electric
vehicle, but then what our weekend vehicle

891
00:57:35,663 --> 00:57:39,483
is and I don't know if we talked about
this, but it's a 1987 Land Rover Defender

892
00:57:39,483 --> 00:57:41,471
90 and

893
00:57:41,471 --> 00:57:42,568
already contaminated.

894
00:57:42,568 --> 00:57:44,019
Got it, got it, got it.

895
00:57:44,019 --> 00:57:48,499
so I mean it's like oh yeah, I mean this
look at this look at what John's driving

896
00:57:48,499 --> 00:57:51,479
right now This thing is so unreliable
compared to a Land Rover.

897
00:57:51,479 --> 00:57:55,919
I don't know what and then the speed so
I'm just like oh, he's in the double

898
00:57:55,919 --> 00:58:01,519
digits This 140 horsepower we have just
seems overpowering but no that it's it's

899
00:58:01,519 --> 00:58:02,359
always

900
00:58:02,359 --> 00:58:04,637
of a Landy of that vintage?

901
00:58:04,637 --> 00:58:06,409
Well, no one's really known.

902
00:58:06,711 --> 00:58:08,334
just keeps going.

903
00:58:08,334 --> 00:58:11,890
You just never have enough road to get to
that top speed is the issue.

904
00:58:11,890 --> 00:58:14,964
those help a lot.

905
00:58:16,412 --> 00:58:20,072
But I mean, like I always say, it'll go 40
miles an hour over anything.

906
00:58:20,292 --> 00:58:23,692
It just takes a while to get there
sometimes.

907
00:58:23,932 --> 00:58:28,332
yeah, and anyone listening, the links to
the Attempting Fate tours will be in the

908
00:58:28,332 --> 00:58:33,372
show notes today, along with John's recent
articles on the Pulsar 5 and more.

909
00:58:33,652 --> 00:58:37,812
But John, I just want to say thanks again
for coming on and I need to have you on

910
00:58:37,812 --> 00:58:38,647
again soon.

911
00:58:38,647 --> 00:58:43,527
think we could probably do double the time
and I appreciate it.

912
00:58:43,527 --> 00:58:49,047
just have another event, but good talks
and more to come.

913
00:58:49,047 --> 00:58:53,867
The nice thing is I'll have more to talk
about until the end of my so -called

914
00:58:53,867 --> 00:58:55,747
career in the EV world.

915
00:58:55,747 --> 00:58:59,607
And it's nice to see it playing out after
15 years where there are cars.

916
00:58:59,607 --> 00:59:00,727
I got a lot of questions.

917
00:59:00,727 --> 00:59:04,395
I stopped to charge and people ask me
questions.

918
00:59:04,395 --> 00:59:06,295
and how long does it take to charge?

919
00:59:06,295 --> 00:59:07,755
Oh, I'm gonna spend 15 minutes.

920
00:59:07,755 --> 00:59:08,855
Oh, I could never do that.

921
00:59:08,855 --> 00:59:13,315
It's like, okay, so you're gonna go pee
and you're gonna go buy salty snack foods,

922
00:59:13,315 --> 00:59:14,375
then you're gonna play with your phone.

923
00:59:14,375 --> 00:59:15,635
How long did you take?

924
00:59:15,635 --> 00:59:18,835
And you just gotta sort of connect the
dots for people.

925
00:59:18,835 --> 00:59:25,475
So that's what I view my job as doing, you
too, in your own arena.

926
00:59:25,475 --> 00:59:27,675
So thanks, and till next time.

927
00:59:28,123 --> 00:59:28,696
Thank you, John.

928
00:59:28,696 --> 00:59:29,717
Talk soon.

929
00:59:29,717 --> 00:59:30,210
Take care.

930
00:59:35,800 --> 00:59:39,293
Thank you for tuning into this episode of
the Grid Connections podcast.

931
00:59:39,293 --> 00:59:42,565
We hope you enjoyed our conversation with
John Volcker, contributing editor at Car

932
00:59:42,565 --> 00:59:47,499
and Driver Magazine and host of the
Tempting Fate Tours on YouTube channel.

933
00:59:47,499 --> 00:59:51,052
From Lay's DV sales numbers to John's
thrilling experiences with GM's Ultium

934
00:59:51,052 --> 00:59:54,845
vehicles and his insightful trip to
Polestar in England, we covered a lot of

935
00:59:54,845 --> 00:59:56,406
exciting ground today.

936
00:59:56,446 --> 00:59:59,699
But remember, if you found this episode
valuable, we encourage you to share with

937
00:59:59,699 --> 01:00:01,810
at least one other person who would enjoy
it as

938
01:00:01,954 --> 01:00:05,497
Your support means the world to us and it
helps us continue to bring you the latest

939
01:00:05,497 --> 01:00:07,758
in EV news and insights.

940
01:00:07,759 --> 01:00:10,641
Don't forget to also leave a positive
review on our podcast page.

941
01:00:10,641 --> 01:00:12,903
Your feedback helps us improve and grow.

942
01:00:12,903 --> 01:00:16,609
Until next week, this is the Grid
Connections podcast signing