Welcome to Digication Scholars Conversations.
I'm your host, Kelly Driscoll.
In this episode, you'll hear part two of my conversation with Christa Matlack,
career coach STEM at Bucknell University.
More links and information about today's conversation can be found on Digication's
Twitter, Facebook, and Instagram.
Full episodes of Digication Scholars Conversations can be found on
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I was curious if there are some elements, you know, in how the ePortfolios are
being introduced or maybe even how some of the content is being framed
by the students that's specific to STEM experiences or communicating who
they are and the skills that they've gained specifically towards STEM.
Um, could you share if, you know, I, I don't know if it is or if it's more
broad what that might look like for those that are, are thinking about it.
Yeah.
So right now it's just very broad.
Um, so the, the career course one and the my career journey
is geared towards a very broad.
Overarching, um, Career Readiness Concepts, but I have been working on
more industry specific, um, templates.
I just haven't been able to finish them.
Um, so there is one that's geared towards more of, let's, okay, now
let's explore the STEM industry because this is where we want to.
To focus our time and so I have a rough draft of something put together,
but then it's figuring out how do we incorporate this and how do we get it out
to students and get students using it.
But it does link in a little bit more of our STEM career community resources
that we're developing in our office.
To help them explore specific science, technology, engineering,
and math, um, career paths.
And then it, it still then starts, okay, if we picked these three
different types of jobs, you know, starting to envision a five year plan
of if I do this, what do I have to do in the next five years to get there?
Um, and so really starting to plan out, like, maybe it's grad school.
Maybe there's, like, this is what I have to do the next couple
years to get myself to grad school to be able to get to this job.
And so it, it's designed a little bit more for the juniors and seniors.
And what the idea was is to align it with our six career communities, which are all
aligned with different industry areas.
So mine would specifically geared towards STEM and exploring their,
um, their career journey in STEM and potentially envisioning their
future in that industry area.
Nice, nice.
And I was kind of curious, related to that, you know, you've only, uh, been
doing this for two years and have made so much progress and had such wonderful
results based on what I've seen in your institution's portfolio directory for
those that have been shared publicly.
What are your...
Yeah, what are some things that you're envisioning maybe for this next year,
or if you thought even more forward, what some of those next steps might be?
Yeah, I think, um, we are, we've already implemented some changes in the, um,
Jumpstart course to shift from while they're going to create a learning
ePortfolio, um, we've added a final project of, of a showcase ePortfolio.
So something that students could use, a tangible item they can
use for networking purposes.
So we have already started to make changes.
So we have a template for a showcase ePortfolio, so the students will leave
the course not only with a resume, a cover letter, LinkedIn profile, but now
also a showcase ePortfolio that They're going to work on building at least one
experience into that during our course.
And the hope is you already have it now, so just add to it, right?
Add a couple more experiences in here and, you know, start using it when you
email networking connections now, um, or are having networking conversations.
And so that's one change we've already made.
Um, and I think, you know, the envision for the future is, can we Develop the
career, like the industry specific templates and start to find a way to
push these out to students too, um, as a thing that they can use to, again,
not only explore these career options, but start planning their future.
And then we're even putting like a career toolbox in there where they can track
networking interactions or track and reflect upon interviews that they've had.
So that way they can go back like after you've had five
interviews to try to remember.
You know, what happened and how you were feeling like it's a
space for them to do that as well.
So when it comes time to I'd have three offers on the table, I don't remember
any of the interviews and what I felt.
So let's go back and look at this.
Oh, I thank you so much for sharing that and I think it's a
really important conversation.
Very often working with institutions that may be New to the whole idea
of ePortfolio, they feel like they kind of have to make a choice about
whether they're going to be, you know, communicating to students about the
value of the kind of learning portfolio versus, oh, you know, maybe right from
the get go, these really need to be polished and ready to share with outside
audiences and You know, our position has always been that the institution can,
can really embrace both for the benefit of the students and to create tools that
make it very easy for them to move things around and repurpose things, you know,
hop into the organizer and drag and drop things from course portfolios or specific
internship portfolios that they have so that they can really Kind of curate
whatever experiences and skills that they have to different audiences and maybe even
create different versions of this kind of showcase portfolio for very specific kinds
of jobs that they may be applying to.
You know, the way that you were probably framing who you are and what you've done.
And when you first got out of school, you mentioned that you were applying
to some positions that were related to soccer, but you were also pursuing
some things related to science.
And it's a very different story.
So we've always wanted students to know that they could create, you know,
as many Versions and presentations of who they are, what they've done
to, to share with specific people.
So, uh, it's wonderful to hear that Bucknell is already kind of priming
students for understanding the, the value in both and getting introduced to how
both can, uh, support them in their career and that they can make choices about.
You know, what part of their learning journeys, even maybe the challenging
experiences that they had or, you know, when things got messy and when they
needed to pivot, you know, that these stories are still extremely valuable for
those that are outside the institution that are thinking about how they might
fit into their organization's culture.
And, you know, we always value People that have, you know, gone through
challenges and persevered and learned from those and, and took next steps.
So I think that's wonderful that you're even thinking about having
students just reflecting on some of those interview experiences
because they can be very telling.
And, you know, in the moment you can be so kind of energized and
talking so much that, you know, it's important to just kind of sit down
and breathe and think about, you know.
What were some of the things that were said that resonated with me or you know,
where did I feel pushed back and Yeah, whether when those offers can come in
they can make yeah more and more informed decisions or if they keep countering
Conversations that aren't a good fit.
Maybe that they need for something else.
So That's that's fantastic.
And I was kind of Curious, um, for you with your background in sports
and, uh, coaching, you know, are there certain kinds of, um, maybe practices
or methodologies where you can find some common ground in the way that you
communicate with students that might have been taking place on the field that just
feels really familiar when you're working with students, Within these new realms.
Oh, yeah, absolutely.
Um, you know, it's definitely transferable skills, right.
Um, you know, now I'm, I'm not coaching Like, it used to be the content that I was
coaching was very, Soccer specific, right?
It was all about improving their soccer skills and breaking it down for them in a
way that they can understand so they can kick the ball the right way or, you know,
move in the right position on the field, um, make the right run, all of that stuff.
But, you know, now it's just shifted to, you know, trusting yourself, like
teaching them how to trust themselves and their skills and abilities and to
have confidence in it, you know, that, that confidence piece is definitely a
huge, huge transfer, um, that teaching them that they have the skills and
abilities, you know, I did that in both.
In soccer, in career coaching, um, and, you know, talking to them
about their strengths and, and ways that they can improve things.
Like now it's improving their resume, improving their cover letter, improving
how they phrase things, you know?
So there's definitely a lot of that, you know, transferability
from coaching soccer to coaching.
Um, Career, um, but I think the biggest thing is it's, it's
really empowering them, right?
And encouraging them and, and letting them know, like developing that
really foundation of trust, right?
With the student that I'm here to help you.
I understand what you're thinking, what you're feeling, and I'm here to
try to coach you on how to improve in your, your career journey.
And that, that could be from just trying to give them less anxiety
about which career they should pursue.
Um, Or what, what they should do.
Uh, we have students come in so anxious about, you know, what
student organizations should I join?
And it's like, just try some out, right?
Like we, it's okay.
You don't, it doesn't matter at the end of the day, which ones they have to be ones
that are meaningful to you, that you're going to contribute and make an impact.
Because otherwise it just becomes a bullet point on your resume.
It's just a line.
And, and there's no, there's no way to tell a story about that.
It's just, I was a member of this group.
Well, Instead of being a member of six groups, maybe you're only a member of
three and you're really heavily involved in them and just talking to them more
about, you know, like you had said earlier, living in the moment and enjoying
what you're doing and making sure that you're passionate about what you're doing.
Um, because if you're not, right, it's It's never going to align with you
and your interests, and you're just never going to be satisfied with it.
You're always just going to be a little bit unhappy with it.
So, there's definitely a lot of that, um, that is transferred
over into, into career coaching.
And it's, it's very interesting to see, um, and I think, I
think it's helped me, right?
Um, to be able to coach on the soccer field and then now, you know,
coach one on one appointments or in a classroom being an instructor.
Yeah.
And, uh, as you were speaking, I was thinking, I know.
In my experience teaching that, especially in undergrad, you know, I
would sometimes have encounters with students where they really felt like
they didn't have any skill gaps or um, you know, anything that was gonna, and
so undecided about what their interests were and what they wanted to do, maybe
they'd just been kind of Following what their parents had told them to do.
Um, now when you're, and I imagine you meet with students,
Like that sometimes too.
What are, what are some things that you might communicate to them
to, you know, kind of give them that coaching to maybe think about
themselves in a, a different light?
Yeah.
Um, I think when, when students come in and they feel kind of lost, like they
don't know either what major they want to.
To choose or they don't know which career path they wanna go down.
Um, I guess my, my go-to is that like, you don't have to know, like I'm, I'm
mid-career and I don't know what I want to do when I grow up either, right?
Like I might change my mind five years from now.
I don't know.
Um, there's always going to be uncertainty.
In career, right there.
You may find the perfect job, but the chances are, it's not
going to be your first job.
Your first job's usually never your last job.
So just shifting their mindset from.
The anxiety of having to select something to knowing that
one, it's not linked, right?
Your major is not linked to what you do, but two, that you just look
at it as there's no wrong decision to make in your career, right?
You just have to learn something every time you switch jobs, right?
So either you learn what you like, or you learn what you
don't like, and you use that.
To pivot you in the right direction towards something that's going to be more
meaningful to you at the end of the day.
And so, you know, to just not feel like you have to stay somewhere and that.
You have to understand yourself and really listen to yourself, and if you're
feeling unhappy, what's causing that, so then when I look for my next job,
it's something that's not, not going to bring those same feelings of unhappiness.
I don't want to put myself back in the same environment if I know that
environment's not for me already.
Um, so really just teaching them and coaching them to trust
their gut at the end of the day.
Yeah.
Yeah, and that's important.
And as we were speaking, I was also thinking about, you know, for maybe
some of the students that are coming to Bucknell that have already, um,
maybe been out in the field and are now coming back to either pursue a
different degree or maybe they have been working for a while and want
to, um, you know, maybe they never finished college and are coming back.
So.
For more of those adult students that have work experience, what,
what kind of coaching might you give them in using ePortfolios and
reflecting on their experiences that might pull in more elements of
prior learning or, you know, how to.
incorporate what they've done previously and what they're
now doing in their courses?
Because I can imagine that there's some older students that are
coming back into the fold also.
Yeah, I'm, there are, um, some non traditional students
that are, um, returning.
Either they've worked or they decided to work before they
wanted to go get a degree.
Um, so we do have some students like that.
Um, you know, and when they come in, Um, and we have grad
students, right, that maybe worked before they got their master's.
So I have met with some grad students as well.
Um, so when they come in, it's, it's really talking to them about, you
know, what did you do and how is it, how can we connect it, right, to what
you're doing now or where do you want to go and, and showing them that.
What they did and the path they chose is unique to them and being
able to tell their unique story from their perspective, right?
And, you know, they may not, some of them may not understand, um, really,
Um, Um, the value of that experience that they have already under their belt
and how it's going to help them when it comes to, you know, post graduation
job search and all of that stuff.
So really talking to them in depth about what they learned, what
skills they got, what they did, and making sure that they know how to
articulate the value of what they did.
In this new context of where they want to go, because sometimes
it's totally unrelated, right?
Sometimes they have experience doing one thing and they want to now get their
degree and go in a different direction and it's helping them connect the dots
and understand that it's not Always about the company and the position you're in.
It's about the transferable skills that you've got, that you can still
use and leverage in this new field.
Um, but at the end of the day, you know, communicating them with them
might be a little bit different, because they've already gone through
a little bit of a job search process.
Um, a lot of times it might be a little bit more of Okay,
like, how is this even relevant?
Just trying to talk them through that, that it still could be relevant,
and it's still probably something you should keep on your resume or
keep in your ePortfolio because it's part of your unique story that you
want people to understand about you.
And, and really giving them that ownership to, to put that in there if they want
it in there, if they want to highlight that experience, um, or if they, if
they don't, and they want to start from scratch, you know, okay, now what do
we got to do if we're starting over?
Um, if you don't want that in there.
We have to revisit, you know, what coursework have you done?
What labs have you done?
What, what stuff can we build you up?
And if you don't want that to be a defining characteristic on, on
your ePortfolio or your resume.
Yeah.
Oh, and that's a good point too.
You know, if crafting your.
Narrative, right?
And you know, what part of that prior experience that they feel
like they even want to be part of their, their story anymore.
So thank you for mentioning that too.
And, uh, I was thinking about, um, also, you know, as you're kind of supporting
students in this process, I imagine you're also kind of putting on the hat as the
individual that might be the audience.
For these ePortfolios, um, so whether they're going to potentially be using them
to get internships or try to get their foot in the door at one of these companies
that you mentioned that they really want to work in, um, you know, what's kind of
informing your process about what kinds of content they may want to include?
alongside, you know, listing some of the highlights of what their skills
are, because it is such a different medium than the traditional resume,
you know, where you can just kind of, you know, it's very flat, right?
You know, you can do those things.
But, um, how are you kind of Coaching the students in, okay, you know,
you've made this claim that you have this skill, um, you know, how do you
kind of take them from that point to maybe, you know, what kind of project
or experience that they might want to share to kind of back up that claim?
Yes.
Yeah.
So we talk a lot about using the STAR method, um, to really craft and draw
that connection between, I have this teamwork experience and I need to tell
you about a time when I got it, right?
So really using that format of, you know, what's the situation, what tasks,
what were you tasked with, what was your action, and then what was the
result, but also relating it back.
So if we're going to tailor that, um, ePortfolio to a specific, because we
had mentioned before, you could make.
Small versions of it per employer.
Um, if you want to tailor it specifically to an employer or a position that you're
applying to, to forward on with your resume, you know, relate it back to the
company's mission, vision, values, relate it back to the position description
and, and show them and demonstrate to them that this experience over here
is very relevant and will give me the skills to help you here in your company.
Talking to them and breaking down that star method for them so they can start to.
really reflect on and describe how they got that skill and how they're
going to apply that skill at this new company in this new role.
Um, and that's kind of, you know, but then it's like, you have to pick and
choose which ones are the most relevant.
So then it goes back to what's what's your job that you're applying to.
And does my research experience better demonstrate it than
this internship that I did?
And trying to, you know, Curate their story to give them skills, but also like
give them something interesting, right?
Like you don't want everything to just be all engineering on your resume.
Like they know you're a great engineer on your resume, right?
So maybe the ePortfolio, yeah, we're going to have some of that stuff, but
like let's tell a little bit different story about more of who you are.
Like, instead of just a one liner about this club you're in, that you
did a lot of stuff for, but you didn't have room to explain it, maybe we
pick that to really talk about your event planning, or your supervision of
other individuals, and thinking about ways that you can And I think that's
Make yourself, um, like more three dimensional, like a more whole person
by using that ePortfolio to tell more of your story, not just what's on paper.
Because they already saw the paper, they already understand that.
So, um, trying to find different unique experiences in that ePortfolio, but
also, like you said, supporting them.
Do you have Pictures of the event that you planned.
Do you have pictures of your project of that thing you created in your
engineering course that you can show the process you went through to start from?
Here's my sketch to here's the end product.
Like, can you show that progression that you went through and demonstrate
that you know what the design process takes, um, and how it works?
And iterations, like, that's, that's a lot of the stuff that, you know, they
could put in an ePortfolio that you can't really put on a resume other than writing
one short bullet point statement about.
Yeah, yeah.
Thank you for sharing that and I, I do, that really resonates, uh,
a lot with how we approach the tools that we're creating too.
You know, we want to have it as a space where individuals can really
use it as that creation space.
So not just, you know, housing files.
You know, of course you can upload documents, um, but really using it
as a place where you can go deeper and create almost this kind of more
three dimensional presentation of who you are and related to that.
So there have been more and more research around whether, you know,
people that are making hiring decisions are interested in viewing ePortfolios.
And I was curious from your perspective, you know, if, you know, the, the world
could move in that direction, how you might hope that these could, this kind
of technology could be incorporated into the kind of hiring process, um,
maybe at what stage or how it might be viewed, um, or maybe even for
some of the organizations that are.
Recruiting from your institution, how might they be?
involved in viewing some of those e portfolios.
I'd love to hear your perspective on that as well.
Yeah, I think right now, obviously there are industries like education
where, you know, the ePortfolio plays a huge role and they still do the
paper portfolios, which are those massive binders that are like this big.
Um, so, you know, I think the ePortfolio has totally transformed education
use of Portfolio, um, and has made it, has made it more accessible.
Right.
It made it very much more accessible to, for the students to share what they've
done with those search committees and with the people that they're meeting with.
And, um You know, I think it would be really nice to see that transfer
into the other industry areas, right?
Like that, that is a very niche place where it's being utilized heavily.
I know that in the creative arts and like graphic design and stuff like that it is.
But it's really, like you said, when do we introduce it?
Um, because it can be a lot of information, right?
Um, and information overload.
Um, so sometimes it's, it's hard to know, like, when should that be put.
You know, into the hiring process at what point, um, you know, we, we talk
to students about the possibility, like, what are the possibilities I could do?
If I create one of these, how could I potentially use it in my hiring process?
One thing that some of the education students are, they're
putting a QR code on their resume.
So when they apply, it's just right there, right?
So why can't an engineering student do that?
And then it's at the mercy of the employer.
If they want to look at it.
Here's more for you.
I want to give you more of my story, and this is how I'm going to do it.
Um, Other ways that they could potentially use it is maybe in
an interview setting, right?
Like, have a business card with a QR code on it there.
And, oh, I have a really great project and I do actually have it on my ePortfolio.
Here's the QR code if you want to take a look while I'm kind
of answering your question here.
You know, there, there are ways that I think they could get really creative of
like, how do I insert this ePortfolio?
And then, They're still walking away with your ePortfolio because
they have the business card, right?
So, even if they don't read it, yeah, yeah, and, and they have a takeaway,
right, that they can, maybe they're not looking at the entire thing right
there and reading it word for word.
But maybe later on, after they're done, they're like, that's really interesting,
kind of want to see more of what this person has done, and it gives you that
opportunity to share that with them.
And so I think there are definitely ways that students could find to weave it in.
Other than networking, right?
Networking seems to make the most sense, right?
Of, you know, here's more, I'd love to, like, show you my ePortfolio
and, like, have a conversation about who I am and, like, how I could
potentially fit in the company.
And sharing it that way makes the most sense, I think, for, for most people,
but there are other creative ways, you know, even sending your thank you emails
and putting the link to it in your signature line, um, you know, finding
ways that you're still getting it out there and potentially getting views.
Um, but will it get to that point?
I have no idea.
I think it would be really nice, um, to, to start.
Allowing that to be an option, right, because I think it does tell you
more about the person than a one page resume can at times, uh, because
of the ability of them to curate who they are in a more visual form.
Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
And I know, Christa, we're getting close to the end of our time today, but I,
I had a question that's kind of been moving around in my head, kind of going
back to, Your experiences on the soccer field and then what you're doing now.
Um, I know from my background in playing sports is that feeling
you get when you've got a win.
And, uh, I was wondering, you know, in your experiences today, you
know, are there certain times where you might, uh, be coming home and
thinking, you know, I had a win today?
And if you could describe maybe some things that have led to that
feeling, maybe how that feeling may Come out in some of the work
that you're doing with students.
Yeah, I think majority of those wins come in the one on one, um, appointments.
Especially when they're students that have, have met with me multiple times.
Um, for example, um, I'm sure she won't mind me sharing.
But I had a student come in, and we have been working all summer on a
personal statement for graduate school, and she came in very stressed out.
Her word count was, like, almost 300 above what it needed to be, and so she was very,
feeling very stressed about it, right?
Um, but by, we spent a lot of time.
Going through, re rephrasing, cutting things, figuring out, you know,
what is the main points we're trying to get across and is there stuff
we can trim down on or rephrase?
And we got it down to about, I don't know, 50 words over the limit.
So, she was ecstatic.
She was like, Oh, we did a great job today.
This is awesome.
I'm so glad that I started working with you on this earlier and the
excitement, um, in her voice and just feeling that rewarding, like
I did help this person, right?
I helped her get closer to her goal of finishing her personal
statement for this graduate program.
Um, and another example is I had a student come in very anxious,
doesn't know what she wants to do.
She's a senior and You know, just talking to her and having that real,
real communication of it's okay.
We'll figure it out.
We'll find you your first stop.
But no, it's not your last stop.
Like, you're going to find, you just have to try something.
Um, and then the nice thing is, is once you have that job.
It makes looking for another job a lot easier because the
pressure is off at that point.
And I said, are you feeling okay?
Like at the end of the appointment, she said, I always
feel better when I leave here.
And when they say those things, like, it just like, it touches you.
And that's, those are the wins that I, I see now is knowing
that they're leaving my office.
Feeling so much better than when they came in.
Well, thank you so much for joining me today, Christa.
It was wonderful to talk to you and learn more about you and hear from
your experience and, and insights.
I'm really looking forward to, to sharing this with our community of listeners.
Yeah.
Thank you very much.
It was awesome.
I'm glad that I had the opportunity to meet you and talk to you, Kelly.
Good.
Thank you so much.
Take good care.
You too.
Bye.
Coming up next, we'll be chatting with Rebecca Thomas, Director of
the Pathways ePortfolio Program and Adjunct Assistant Professor of the
Electrical and Computer Engineering Department at Bucknell University.
Here's a quick preview.
I do hope, though, that being exposed to this, more students will be prepared
to take on these problems because I think that's a big part of the issue
is in the past and, you know, even kind of right now, a lot of students,
right, who are just prepared with a very technical focus, you know, don't
have the kind of preparation they need to, like, make solving these kind of
problems even a possibility, right?