WEBVTT NOTE This file was generated by Descript 00:00:00.050 --> 00:00:04.040 Rupert Isaacson: Welcome to Live Free Ride Free, where we talk to people who 00:00:04.040 --> 00:00:09.680 have lived self-actualized lives on their own terms, and find out how they 00:00:09.680 --> 00:00:13.888 got there, what they do, how we can get there, what we can learn from them. 00:00:14.032 --> 00:00:18.839 How to live our best lives, find our own definition of success, 00:00:19.169 --> 00:00:21.689 and most importantly, find joy. 00:00:22.579 --> 00:00:24.259 I'm your host, Rupert Isaacson. 00:00:24.373 --> 00:00:27.463 New York Times bestselling author of the Horse Boy. 00:00:27.468 --> 00:00:31.456 Founder of New Trails Learning Systems and long ride home.com. 00:00:31.456 --> 00:00:37.074 You can find details of all our programs and shows on Rupert isaacson.com. 00:00:37.124 --> 00:00:42.104 Welcome back to Live Free, ride Free, where we talk to people who live 00:00:42.104 --> 00:00:46.634 self-actualized lives and find out how they did it and how they still do 00:00:46.634 --> 00:00:48.374 it, and what can we learn from them. 00:00:49.124 --> 00:00:50.924 What's the true meaning of success? 00:00:50.984 --> 00:00:52.574 What's the true meaning of fulfillment? 00:00:52.654 --> 00:00:53.594 Is it money? 00:00:54.524 --> 00:00:55.274 Is it career? 00:00:56.234 --> 00:00:58.064 Is it how you feel inside? 00:00:58.874 --> 00:01:00.644 Is it your creativity? 00:01:00.734 --> 00:01:01.754 Is it all of the above? 00:01:02.414 --> 00:01:03.374 Is it none of the above? 00:01:04.364 --> 00:01:05.504 What does it mean to you? 00:01:06.014 --> 00:01:10.714 So we have the amazing, by any standards, Jane Pike, with us 00:01:10.719 --> 00:01:13.744 tonight, who is jolly interesting. 00:01:14.164 --> 00:01:16.024 Why is Jane Pike jolly interesting? 00:01:16.054 --> 00:01:24.434 Well, Jane Pike was an early pioneer of, the online membership, equestrian 00:01:25.544 --> 00:01:29.234 learn to train your horse or learn to ride better type stuff That came 00:01:29.239 --> 00:01:31.334 out a few years ago on the internet. 00:01:31.454 --> 00:01:34.714 And, many, many, many people have done this. 00:01:34.714 --> 00:01:38.194 I myself have signed up for quite a few of these things because hey, 00:01:38.194 --> 00:01:39.484 it's always good to learn something. 00:01:40.174 --> 00:01:43.564 And I know some people who've certainly made money at it. 00:01:44.314 --> 00:01:51.154 I don't know many people who have managed to both be economically 00:01:51.154 --> 00:02:00.004 successful at it and also genuinely help people out and also do it from 00:02:00.004 --> 00:02:03.414 a perspective that is neurological. 00:02:04.114 --> 00:02:08.164 showing people how to really access what's in their bodies, the sort of 00:02:08.164 --> 00:02:12.884 wisdom of the nervous system, in a way that goes far transcends horses. 00:02:13.304 --> 00:02:15.434 she's also a poet but she don't know it. 00:02:16.044 --> 00:02:17.029 but you'll soon know it. 00:02:17.609 --> 00:02:21.779 cuz there'll be something published quite soon and she's sort of all around awesome. 00:02:21.879 --> 00:02:26.529 and she very definitely lives life on her own terms down there on the 00:02:26.529 --> 00:02:29.689 south island of New Zealand when she's not traveling all over the world. 00:02:30.349 --> 00:02:34.299 And so I feel that we could tap into some Jane Pike wisdom about 00:02:35.049 --> 00:02:37.119 how do you do something like this? 00:02:37.119 --> 00:02:41.199 How do you become financially, creatively, independent like this 00:02:41.259 --> 00:02:44.709 and live in this extraordinary place and help people out all over the 00:02:44.709 --> 00:02:47.679 world and still sort of remain cool. 00:02:47.799 --> 00:02:50.759 So, without further ado, welcome Jane Pike. 00:02:51.809 --> 00:02:52.619 Jane Pike: Thank you. 00:02:52.619 --> 00:02:56.399 That was a bit of, that was the loveliest introduction I've ever, ever had. 00:02:56.579 --> 00:02:59.299 And the, the stay cool bit is questionable, but we'll, we'll 00:02:59.509 --> 00:03:01.999 Rupert Isaacson: see how we will Well it's, it's, it's nothing but the truth. 00:03:02.039 --> 00:03:05.369 and, and there are many people who'll be listening right now 00:03:05.374 --> 00:03:07.374 who are, followers of Jpi. 00:03:07.514 --> 00:03:13.864 Jpi has a website called confident Writer Do com and a online Do com online. 00:03:13.864 --> 00:03:14.284 Sorry. 00:03:14.289 --> 00:03:14.674 Good lord. 00:03:14.679 --> 00:03:16.114 Jane Pike: I did No, that's alright. 00:03:16.114 --> 00:03:18.155 By the early pioneers and we'll just buy all 00:03:18.754 --> 00:03:19.414 Rupert Isaacson: writer names. 00:03:19.724 --> 00:03:20.014 Yeah. 00:03:20.464 --> 00:03:20.794 Online. 00:03:21.244 --> 00:03:24.484 I'll say it three times cuz if what, what I said three times is true Confident 00:03:24.484 --> 00:03:27.695 writer.online, confident writer, do online Confident writer.online. 00:03:27.954 --> 00:03:31.864 And her joyride program has thousands of people around the world. 00:03:31.894 --> 00:03:34.624 And I'm always running into people go, oh, I'm a Jerry Penk, 00:03:34.654 --> 00:03:36.424 so let's find out why they are. 00:03:36.574 --> 00:03:37.204 so Jane Pipe, 00:03:37.209 --> 00:03:37.664 Jane Pike: who are you? 00:03:39.774 --> 00:03:40.474 Who am I? 00:03:40.844 --> 00:03:41.864 in what sense? 00:03:42.524 --> 00:03:45.764 In what sense should we begin the who I who, who are you conversation? 00:03:46.634 --> 00:03:51.964 Rupert Isaacson: Well, you could begin it in the, physical sense as in I am 00:03:51.969 --> 00:03:54.094 this person who lives here and does this. 00:03:54.094 --> 00:03:54.184 Yes. 00:03:54.604 --> 00:03:59.254 You could begin it in the esoteric sense of I was once this person who lived there 00:03:59.554 --> 00:04:04.074 and did that, but then returned to source and came back as a, as a flee and then 00:04:04.904 --> 00:04:06.944 went through my reincarnation cycles. 00:04:07.304 --> 00:04:08.654 Or you could just tell us who you are. 00:04:09.809 --> 00:04:10.079 Jane Pike: Yeah. 00:04:10.079 --> 00:04:11.429 Well, I, I am Jane. 00:04:11.459 --> 00:04:12.119 I'm Jane. 00:04:12.179 --> 00:04:13.289 Thank you for having me here. 00:04:13.619 --> 00:04:18.479 At the moment, I live in a little corner of the south island of New Zealand, 00:04:18.599 --> 00:04:20.309 and I wasn't born here originally. 00:04:20.309 --> 00:04:21.449 I was born in Australia. 00:04:21.879 --> 00:04:27.099 but my travels took me to New Zealand when I was in my late teens, actually, which 00:04:27.099 --> 00:04:31.059 is kind of a funny story because, one of my best friends from school, Claire, 00:04:31.569 --> 00:04:37.209 we wanted to travel after we'd done a period of study and we wanted to go to 00:04:37.209 --> 00:04:41.019 Asia and we went to the travel agent and said, this is where we wanna go. 00:04:41.019 --> 00:04:43.179 And they were like, oh, well that's holiday time. 00:04:43.184 --> 00:04:44.019 It's all booked out. 00:04:44.079 --> 00:04:46.119 And she said, but what about New Zealand? 00:04:46.149 --> 00:04:50.319 And both of us went, oh, New Zealand, why would we wanna go there? 00:04:50.319 --> 00:04:51.459 It's just like Australia. 00:04:52.419 --> 00:04:56.979 That was kinda our thought, at the time in our ignorant Australian mindset. 00:04:57.059 --> 00:04:59.909 but then because we both wanted to get out of the country, we 00:04:59.914 --> 00:05:01.309 were like, oh, okay, let's go. 00:05:01.679 --> 00:05:06.639 And so we hired a little car and drove around the, south island 00:05:06.639 --> 00:05:11.709 of New Zealand for two weeks, and I instantly fell in love with it. 00:05:12.019 --> 00:05:16.879 and then we were, we decided, at that point that after the next semester 00:05:16.879 --> 00:05:21.679 of university that we would come back and do a longest in over the summer. 00:05:21.749 --> 00:05:25.139 and Claire pulled out on that longest stint and I decided to come by myself, 00:05:25.199 --> 00:05:27.539 and then I just didn't go home, basically. 00:05:28.199 --> 00:05:29.279 so that was my, 00:05:29.279 --> 00:05:31.279 Rupert Isaacson: this was in your late and now. 00:05:32.369 --> 00:05:36.729 You, you at this point, you know, we're fast forwarding to your current career. 00:05:36.729 --> 00:05:40.279 So you've got this hyper successful online, business doing 00:05:40.339 --> 00:05:43.369 equestrianism and the nervous system, the human nervous system. 00:05:45.169 --> 00:05:48.229 I presume you weren't doing that in your early teens. 00:05:48.279 --> 00:05:50.799 In your late teens, but no, what was the groundwork? 00:05:51.099 --> 00:05:53.079 What were you doing then that's led to that? 00:05:53.079 --> 00:05:53.649 Led to now? 00:05:54.729 --> 00:05:57.849 Jane Pike: Oh my goodness, that's like a lot of territory. 00:05:58.189 --> 00:06:00.479 a lot of territory to cover that's think we're doing so late podcast. 00:06:00.629 --> 00:06:03.439 When I think about it, late teens is probably an inaccurate, it 00:06:03.439 --> 00:06:05.149 would've been very early twenties. 00:06:05.489 --> 00:06:07.609 I'm, I'm my, I'm time morphing now in my mind. 00:06:07.709 --> 00:06:09.449 But, what led to it? 00:06:09.499 --> 00:06:14.929 a period of massive indecision and not knowing what to do with my 00:06:14.929 --> 00:06:17.059 life for like 10 years probably. 00:06:17.359 --> 00:06:22.424 But, I, my start point was I was very academic at school. 00:06:22.674 --> 00:06:26.959 and I was one of those people that had a very clear idea of what 00:06:26.959 --> 00:06:28.189 I was going to do with my life. 00:06:28.219 --> 00:06:31.499 I was like, right, I'm gonna tickle of these boxes and I'm 00:06:31.504 --> 00:06:34.049 going to come out of school. 00:06:34.049 --> 00:06:37.499 And I got a scholarship to Sydney University for Communications Law. 00:06:37.899 --> 00:06:40.060 and I knew that at that point I had to, 00:06:40.599 --> 00:06:42.489 Rupert Isaacson: get a specific Carlie Min Oak's lawyer 00:06:42.969 --> 00:06:45.099 Jane Pike: to get a specific score at school. 00:06:45.099 --> 00:06:46.509 And so my whole. 00:06:48.024 --> 00:06:52.584 Like life literally was oriented around study and getting this 00:06:52.584 --> 00:06:56.004 score that I needed to get, to get into the course that I wanted. 00:06:56.344 --> 00:06:57.659 and they were very selective. 00:06:57.659 --> 00:07:01.614 It was like, at that stage, the way that the school system worked, you took, you 00:07:01.619 --> 00:07:05.305 took your best five subjects out of like a series of subjects that you were doing, 00:07:06.144 --> 00:07:11.724 and each of those subjects had a score out of 20, and I had to get over 96 out of a 00:07:11.724 --> 00:07:14.184 hundred overall to get the scholarship. 00:07:14.284 --> 00:07:15.664 , and so that's what happened. 00:07:15.664 --> 00:07:21.264 And so, so I got into, I got into this degree, this double degree, and I, I went 00:07:21.264 --> 00:07:26.734 from a, a little town in rural Tasmania at that point, to, to the center of Sydney. 00:07:27.574 --> 00:07:31.684 And, I had like an apartment and it was like a, a complete 00:07:31.684 --> 00:07:32.974 shock to the nervous system. 00:07:33.334 --> 00:07:37.484 And I just remember sitting there a few weeks in thinking, what am I doing here? 00:07:37.954 --> 00:07:39.904 I was kind of like desperately homesick. 00:07:39.964 --> 00:07:44.364 And I also had this very clear. 00:07:45.124 --> 00:07:49.719 I don't know if you'd call it vision, but just sense of what the end of that 00:07:49.719 --> 00:07:53.859 particular period of study would most probably look like, which is me sitting 00:07:53.864 --> 00:07:59.539 in an office, sorting through paperwork, climbing my way up this chain of like, 00:07:59.539 --> 00:08:04.009 whatever it is I need to climb up to get, to whatever position that I wanted to be. 00:08:04.009 --> 00:08:06.799 And I just thought, I just, this is just not gonna make me happy. 00:08:06.889 --> 00:08:08.090 I was like, this is, this is not gonna 00:08:08.095 --> 00:08:08.269 Rupert Isaacson: make happen. 00:08:08.269 --> 00:08:10.819 How long did it take you to make, to come to that realization? 00:08:11.059 --> 00:08:11.899 Jane Pike: About four weeks. 00:08:12.139 --> 00:08:12.429 Okay. 00:08:15.199 --> 00:08:16.509 Rupert Isaacson: And so I remember pleading with, well, 00:08:16.509 --> 00:08:17.109 Jane Pike: expedited process. 00:08:17.129 --> 00:08:17.589 That's good. 00:08:17.819 --> 00:08:18.109 Yeah. 00:08:18.189 --> 00:08:20.899 I remember pleading with my parents and being like, can I 00:08:20.899 --> 00:08:22.009 just, I just wanna come home. 00:08:22.009 --> 00:08:24.919 And they were like, stay till the end of this, you know, period. 00:08:24.919 --> 00:08:26.749 Get it sorted, go and see the counselor. 00:08:26.749 --> 00:08:28.639 We think you're just homesick and all of these things. 00:08:28.639 --> 00:08:32.489 And in the end I had like a little, Mitsubishi cult, which was like a 00:08:32.494 --> 00:08:36.839 little red snotty car that, was probably questionably roadworthy. 00:08:36.869 --> 00:08:41.089 And I just packed it up to the ceiling and drove, three states across Australia home. 00:08:43.019 --> 00:08:46.519 And that was the end of, of that particular, moment in my life and also the 00:08:46.519 --> 00:08:48.579 end of clarity, for what I was gonna do. 00:08:48.579 --> 00:08:51.399 And then it just became like a hotchpotch for the next sort of, 00:08:51.519 --> 00:08:52.659 Rupert Isaacson: but look at you now. 00:08:52.664 --> 00:08:56.679 You've got, you've got nervous system expertise, which we're gonna dive into 00:08:56.679 --> 00:09:00.249 because if you're listening, you do want to know some of the things that 00:09:00.249 --> 00:09:01.689 Jane knows about your nervous system. 00:09:01.689 --> 00:09:02.679 They're useful. 00:09:02.829 --> 00:09:02.979 Mm-hmm. 00:09:03.339 --> 00:09:04.539 and horses. 00:09:04.544 --> 00:09:05.439 So where do 00:09:05.439 --> 00:09:06.159 the horses come in? 00:09:07.269 --> 00:09:10.809 Jane Pike: So my mom was and is a passionate horse woman. 00:09:10.939 --> 00:09:13.639 and I had horses from the moment that I was born. 00:09:13.639 --> 00:09:14.629 She had horses. 00:09:15.079 --> 00:09:20.629 And I think it was a huge convenience that I happened to be interested in 00:09:20.629 --> 00:09:24.680 what she was into, because I think if I hadn't been, I, I, I, I think I 00:09:24.680 --> 00:09:27.019 just would've had no option basically. 00:09:27.469 --> 00:09:28.939 So it was just kind of handy. 00:09:29.069 --> 00:09:36.779 and she had a, a horse called Icon who was a Arab Cross, something, something 00:09:36.784 --> 00:09:40.169 cross something, something that was, she had him since she was, he was a two year 00:09:40.259 --> 00:09:44.459 old and he, he actually only relatively recently passed away in his forties. 00:09:44.459 --> 00:09:46.619 So she had him literally his whole life. 00:09:47.049 --> 00:09:50.499 And she used to ride all of the time. 00:09:50.499 --> 00:09:54.389 And I've got photos of me plunked up on, on Icon from a very early age. 00:09:54.869 --> 00:10:02.589 And then when I was about five, my dad said to me, come with me. 00:10:02.589 --> 00:10:04.629 You're gonna come, come, we're gonna go for a walk. 00:10:04.779 --> 00:10:09.629 And the, the area that we lived there was a, a road that led up to like the 00:10:09.629 --> 00:10:11.489 end of a, a bush track or a clearing. 00:10:11.489 --> 00:10:16.199 And mom rode this pony from a friend's house that instantly she had 00:10:16.199 --> 00:10:17.239 got him from through the clearing. 00:10:17.519 --> 00:10:19.709 And that was captain who was gonna be my. 00:10:20.324 --> 00:10:21.854 Who was my pony, basically. 00:10:21.884 --> 00:10:25.894 and he was rescued out of a bramble bush, on the side of the road in 00:10:25.894 --> 00:10:29.724 kind of slightly dilapidated state and had been, brought back to health. 00:10:29.724 --> 00:10:35.054 And now I had this like black, wild main, unidentified breeding 00:10:35.059 --> 00:10:37.064 pony that was, that was mine. 00:10:37.064 --> 00:10:40.754 And we, we were very fortunate at the time, that the area that we 00:10:40.754 --> 00:10:42.734 were in was surrounded by farmland. 00:10:43.094 --> 00:10:46.424 And the farmer also bred riding ponies on the side. 00:10:46.424 --> 00:10:49.514 And so he was horse horse friendly and let us ride. 00:10:49.854 --> 00:10:56.034 Overall his paddocks, which was sort of about 500 acres and very like hill, 00:10:56.064 --> 00:11:00.024 massive h you know, hills and bush and rivers and all those sorts of things. 00:11:00.024 --> 00:11:05.064 So I just used to take off on captain and like, ride around the, the paddocks. 00:11:05.069 --> 00:11:08.844 And what was really glorious about it looking back was my lack of, 00:11:08.899 --> 00:11:12.019 Just self-consciousness about that experience because he was 00:11:12.019 --> 00:11:13.849 like a very wild looking pony. 00:11:14.029 --> 00:11:17.449 But I used to take him in all the competitions with all the fancy ponies 00:11:17.454 --> 00:11:20.839 that were all platted up, and I had no clue that I was like, completely 00:11:20.839 --> 00:11:22.069 inappropriate for that setting. 00:11:22.069 --> 00:11:25.489 I'd just be like, tering round, like, and both of our hair would 00:11:25.489 --> 00:11:26.599 be going all over the place. 00:11:26.599 --> 00:11:29.959 And all my, you know, I just didn't have the, didn't have the gear. 00:11:29.959 --> 00:11:31.909 I was the opposite of all the gear and no idea. 00:11:31.909 --> 00:11:33.499 I was like, no gear and no idea. 00:11:35.029 --> 00:11:36.504 But it was, it was pretty fun. 00:11:36.534 --> 00:11:36.894 Yeah. 00:11:36.894 --> 00:11:38.934 And mum used to come writing as well, 00:11:39.304 --> 00:11:41.794 Rupert Isaacson: with did at some point the gear and the ideas come together. 00:11:41.794 --> 00:11:45.364 So did you and, and mum sort of get the showing thing together 00:11:45.364 --> 00:11:48.774 and then end up sort of killing it in the shows at a certain point? 00:11:49.524 --> 00:11:50.094 Yeah, my sister. 00:11:50.554 --> 00:11:51.254 How, how'd that happen? 00:11:51.724 --> 00:11:53.014 Jane Pike: My sister as well. 00:11:53.019 --> 00:11:54.154 Well, I, I don't know. 00:11:54.154 --> 00:11:57.764 I think that, Like it really is this unclear in my mind about what made 00:11:57.764 --> 00:12:00.044 that decision come for my mom and dad. 00:12:00.404 --> 00:12:02.614 But, they were both competitive runners. 00:12:03.194 --> 00:12:07.779 and so that's how they met my mom was one of the first, was, was the first women, 00:12:07.829 --> 00:12:09.869 woman to run competitively in Australia. 00:12:09.869 --> 00:12:13.499 She came over on like the $2 ticket from the UK and there were 00:12:13.499 --> 00:12:15.149 no races for women at that point. 00:12:15.149 --> 00:12:17.489 So she started running with the men and she beat them. 00:12:17.589 --> 00:12:20.409 and they were very put out about that, which c created some 00:12:20.409 --> 00:12:22.409 women's races in Australia. 00:12:22.409 --> 00:12:27.149 And so she was running the five and 10,000 meters and my dad was a sprinter and 00:12:27.154 --> 00:12:29.029 so, they met and hit it off obviously. 00:12:29.589 --> 00:12:34.259 And I think that why I mentioned that was because they had like a competitive 00:12:34.259 --> 00:12:38.059 streak in them that , maybe when I was flying around with like main flying in 00:12:38.059 --> 00:12:41.389 the wind and they saw these other people and they saw how into it I was, they 00:12:41.389 --> 00:12:46.319 thought maybe there would be a possibility for me to take it a little bit further. 00:12:46.419 --> 00:12:51.139 And so, or maybe they just couldn't stand it and they wanted to do better. 00:12:51.199 --> 00:12:57.724 And so they brought me, they brought me a pony called Mini, who was a writing 00:12:57.724 --> 00:13:01.389 pony and she was, amazing actually. 00:13:01.394 --> 00:13:04.739 And I was just, I just remember being shocked cuz I went from like, I. 00:13:04.839 --> 00:13:09.129 This little bush pony to like this quite fancy little, other pony. 00:13:09.129 --> 00:13:11.559 You had lots of issues at the time. 00:13:11.559 --> 00:13:12.189 It's so funny. 00:13:12.189 --> 00:13:15.759 Retrospectively looking back where, you know, like she was very cold backed and 00:13:15.764 --> 00:13:20.349 had issues that I would now treat from, from a variety of perspectives like 00:13:20.349 --> 00:13:22.419 Rupert Isaacson: body wear, those who, who are not horsey. 00:13:22.419 --> 00:13:24.399 Cold back means your lighties get back, bucked 00:13:24.399 --> 00:13:25.029 Jane Pike: off when you Yeah. 00:13:25.029 --> 00:13:28.359 So I used to like leap on and then there would be like a moment where 00:13:28.359 --> 00:13:31.959 you'd go around the arena like two or three times and that was just standard. 00:13:31.959 --> 00:13:34.749 Like my parents never used to think anything of it, which is so weird 00:13:34.749 --> 00:13:38.649 because now if I put my child on a pony like that, I wouldn't do it. 00:13:39.069 --> 00:13:40.659 But it was just like, oh yeah, she's fine. 00:13:40.659 --> 00:13:42.489 You just need to sort of get through that first part. 00:13:42.789 --> 00:13:46.299 so that's what we did and she progressively got better and better. 00:13:46.299 --> 00:13:47.439 She was quite young when I got her. 00:13:47.659 --> 00:13:52.989 and so we had quite a successful showing career together and and I had sort of 00:13:52.989 --> 00:13:58.570 lots of other horses in between that were part of what I just did my whole life. 00:13:58.839 --> 00:14:01.869 I just used to get up before school and ride and I rode after school and 00:14:01.869 --> 00:14:06.739 I mucked out stables and did the whole works and, that was my life pretty much. 00:14:06.829 --> 00:14:07.159 Yeah. 00:14:07.579 --> 00:14:10.069 Rupert Isaacson: So you, you're in obsessive perfectionist, 00:14:10.399 --> 00:14:12.079 competitive horsey family. 00:14:12.379 --> 00:14:14.749 You are out there showing and 00:14:14.899 --> 00:14:17.689 Jane Pike: Well, that, that's a strong label, Rupert, it's a strong label. 00:14:18.889 --> 00:14:23.829 Rupert Isaacson: and then you decide to go off to university 00:14:24.519 --> 00:14:26.319 to become Carlie minnow's lawyer. 00:14:26.889 --> 00:14:27.459 Decide that 00:14:28.509 --> 00:14:30.939 Jane Pike: that might be, but I actually wanted to be a journalist. 00:14:31.059 --> 00:14:33.099 That was my, my true passion. 00:14:33.099 --> 00:14:35.819 But, they offered like a double degree. 00:14:35.819 --> 00:14:37.739 And so it was like, oh, why not? 00:14:37.739 --> 00:14:39.059 Like, that was just my thought. 00:14:39.059 --> 00:14:39.599 Why not? 00:14:39.699 --> 00:14:40.089 Rupert Isaacson: yeah. 00:14:40.329 --> 00:14:43.689 Then four weeks into that out of Tasmania, you decide, no, this is awful. 00:14:43.749 --> 00:14:44.949 I need to get back home. 00:14:45.449 --> 00:14:45.669 Yes. 00:14:45.739 --> 00:14:47.749 and then you say, that was the end of clarity. 00:14:48.229 --> 00:14:53.449 So knowing you now you are, you seem pretty clear. 00:14:53.569 --> 00:14:57.469 I see you mentoring people on how to run businesses. 00:14:57.469 --> 00:14:59.929 I see you mentoring people on how to do online stuff. 00:14:59.929 --> 00:15:02.239 I see you mentoring people on how do you get their nervous 00:15:02.239 --> 00:15:03.329 systems together and so on. 00:15:03.669 --> 00:15:07.999 So what if you say that non clarity hit you? 00:15:08.989 --> 00:15:12.499 how long did it hit you for and where did it lead you? 00:15:12.499 --> 00:15:13.609 What, 20 years. 00:15:13.969 --> 00:15:14.209 Okay. 00:15:14.209 --> 00:15:14.509 That's good. 00:15:14.899 --> 00:15:15.709 That's a good minimum. 00:15:16.039 --> 00:15:16.219 Jane Pike: I'm sorry. 00:15:16.219 --> 00:15:18.729 No, no, not quite that long, but I'm, I'm, I'm joking, but I'm 00:15:18.729 --> 00:15:18.969 Rupert Isaacson: not joking. 00:15:19.309 --> 00:15:20.479 We get to my 20 years. 00:15:20.479 --> 00:15:22.040 It's sort of Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. 00:15:22.429 --> 00:15:22.939 Only 20 00:15:22.939 --> 00:15:23.269 Jane Pike: years. 00:15:24.019 --> 00:15:26.959 You know, it's like clarity is an interesting word, isn't it? 00:15:26.959 --> 00:15:30.439 Because, I had been trained into an expectation of what I 00:15:30.439 --> 00:15:32.329 should do when I left school. 00:15:32.329 --> 00:15:36.269 And a smart person, who does well at school, you know, this is sort of the 00:15:36.269 --> 00:15:41.689 labels that, I did well at school because I was so afraid of not doing well. 00:15:42.409 --> 00:15:45.029 You know, from the point of like letting people down or getting in. 00:15:45.289 --> 00:15:50.029 It wasn't motivated from a place of like, wow, learning's amazing. 00:15:50.029 --> 00:15:51.799 Let's like make the most of this. 00:15:51.799 --> 00:15:55.549 It was like, if I don't do this, I'm gonna disappoint someone. 00:15:55.549 --> 00:15:55.609 Yeah. 00:15:55.669 --> 00:15:58.339 And if I, if I, I don't wanna disappoint someone. 00:15:58.339 --> 00:15:59.539 I don't wanna get in trouble. 00:15:59.789 --> 00:16:02.121 I, I, I don't know that I learned this. 00:16:02.126 --> 00:16:02.829 It's a lot of us, isn't it? 00:16:02.829 --> 00:16:03.109 Yeah. 00:16:03.219 --> 00:16:03.509 Yeah. 00:16:03.709 --> 00:16:07.399 I don't know that I learned as much as I really was good at playing the game. 00:16:07.519 --> 00:16:07.609 Mm-hmm. 00:16:07.849 --> 00:16:11.569 I'm like, okay, I know what you need for this exam, and I will 00:16:11.569 --> 00:16:13.159 learn exactly what you need. 00:16:13.159 --> 00:16:17.839 I will predict the questions, and when I get there, I will spew out everything I 00:16:17.839 --> 00:16:20.059 know and that will get me a perfect score. 00:16:20.089 --> 00:16:20.869 Which is true. 00:16:20.874 --> 00:16:27.439 Like, I, I was, I was smart in that I could decipher what was 00:16:27.439 --> 00:16:31.559 required of me, and I could predict it and, and I gave it to them. 00:16:31.919 --> 00:16:36.869 It's, it's different from learning, you know, because now I couldn't necessarily, 00:16:37.679 --> 00:16:42.269 think back to what it is that I learn and, and tell you with passion. 00:16:42.569 --> 00:16:43.799 I just knew that. 00:16:44.354 --> 00:16:48.644 In this particular area of study like history or English or that, 00:16:48.644 --> 00:16:51.824 this is probably the question that they're gonna ask me based on what 00:16:51.824 --> 00:16:53.684 we've studied or one of these. 00:16:53.684 --> 00:16:57.944 And so literally if I write the essay beforehand and I memorize it, I can 00:16:57.944 --> 00:17:01.574 change the introduction and I can change the conclusion around the question and I 00:17:01.574 --> 00:17:02.655 will just give you what you wanna hear. 00:17:02.874 --> 00:17:03.944 And that's what I did. 00:17:04.464 --> 00:17:08.364 and so I think that that brought me success at school. 00:17:08.464 --> 00:17:14.584 and so when I stepped outside of that and all of a sudden the framework 00:17:14.584 --> 00:17:18.154 that was comfortable to me, which was, here are my friends, here is 00:17:18.154 --> 00:17:22.274 this institution, here is this place that I know, what the rules are. 00:17:22.274 --> 00:17:25.154 And I notice, you know, the wider world. 00:17:25.159 --> 00:17:28.154 I notice that actually for the first time, like, well, 00:17:28.154 --> 00:17:29.834 shit, this is actually my life. 00:17:29.864 --> 00:17:35.504 This isn't like getting to the next stage of like 17 or 18. 00:17:35.504 --> 00:17:39.374 This is like where I'm supposed to sit when I'm 40 or 50 or 60 or 70. 00:17:39.374 --> 00:17:41.684 Like, and is that what I want? 00:17:41.684 --> 00:17:44.804 I think I've always had that little spark in me thinking about that. 00:17:44.809 --> 00:17:49.774 And I just, it rebelled at the, at the, at that moment. 00:17:49.774 --> 00:17:54.094 And and then it threw me into a huge amount of conclusion, confusion 00:17:54.099 --> 00:17:57.154 because I became somewhat of the joke. 00:17:57.244 --> 00:18:03.574 And this was a bit of a ego bruise because, but I was the 00:18:03.579 --> 00:18:05.514 person that if my friends. 00:18:06.529 --> 00:18:09.124 Were like, oh, who's gonna make it or who's gonna do the thing? 00:18:09.124 --> 00:18:11.164 They'd be like, oh, Jane, Jane will do it. 00:18:11.164 --> 00:18:12.844 Like she's, she'll do it. 00:18:13.264 --> 00:18:17.044 And then all of a sudden I was the one blanking out of university, 00:18:17.044 --> 00:18:20.134 and I was the one trying a million different things and going to these 00:18:20.134 --> 00:18:24.364 crazy places, and it became a thing of like, oh, Jane's doing another thing. 00:18:24.544 --> 00:18:27.304 Or Jane's like, oh, Jane's doing this now. 00:18:27.304 --> 00:18:31.984 And it was, it was very challenging for me to take, I'm sure in some ways 00:18:31.984 --> 00:18:35.134 they meant it lovingly and, and that, or they didn't mean anything by it. 00:18:35.134 --> 00:18:40.414 But for me, who had created a lot of my identity, I think, and value around 00:18:40.414 --> 00:18:42.925 academic success, it was a lot. 00:18:43.374 --> 00:18:46.404 Like, I, I really was wobbling inside with that. 00:18:46.534 --> 00:18:50.524 and did wobble for the next sort of 10 years, even though retrospectively 00:18:50.524 --> 00:18:53.014 I did a lot of stuff, which people would think was very cool. 00:18:53.014 --> 00:18:58.184 And I think on reflection, I, I can see how it was, I, I know at the time 00:18:58.564 --> 00:19:02.554 I probably didn't get the most out of it because I just really struggled with 00:19:03.154 --> 00:19:05.014 who I was at that point and where it was 00:19:05.014 --> 00:19:05.494 Rupert Isaacson: going. 00:19:05.614 --> 00:19:07.204 So, talk us through these wilderness years. 00:19:07.204 --> 00:19:11.724 We know that at a certain point, you had a look at New Zealand and have ended up 00:19:11.724 --> 00:19:16.644 there, but there's more so, so, so, so you, you, you come back from Tasmania, 00:19:16.914 --> 00:19:18.204 you're thinking, oh God, what do I do? 00:19:18.634 --> 00:19:20.014 yeah, my identity's been right. 00:19:20.194 --> 00:19:20.914 What happens? 00:19:20.914 --> 00:19:21.424 Jane Pike: Where do you go? 00:19:22.129 --> 00:19:26.209 Yeah, I just rack up some student debt, like trying lots of different things 00:19:26.209 --> 00:19:30.879 that I never finish and have some kind of like financial, obligation 00:19:30.879 --> 00:19:34.929 to, which was, you know, as an adult I wouldn't do that, but at the time 00:19:34.929 --> 00:19:36.399 it just didn't really occur to me. 00:19:36.879 --> 00:19:38.759 Yeah, it didn't really occur to me that that was gonna be a thing. 00:19:39.379 --> 00:19:44.499 and I did study, health science and got into sort of naturopathy and 00:19:44.499 --> 00:19:49.079 herbal medicine as part of that, which was the beginnings I think, of, of 00:19:49.109 --> 00:19:52.529 leading to where it is that I am now. 00:19:52.889 --> 00:19:55.619 Rupert Isaacson: What led you from, from being journalist and wanting to 00:19:55.619 --> 00:20:04.259 be, Hugh Jackson and Kylie Menino lawyer to Herbs and her, I I had You 00:20:04.259 --> 00:20:06.359 always had a bit of a yen that way or? 00:20:06.429 --> 00:20:07.559 Jane Pike: Yeah, I think so. 00:20:07.799 --> 00:20:08.639 I think so. 00:20:08.639 --> 00:20:14.529 And there was a few, kind of key incidents in here, which, now again 00:20:14.529 --> 00:20:21.489 retrospectively I see that fe have fed into what it is that I'm doing now. 00:20:21.759 --> 00:20:25.659 So one of the big life changers at that point was that my parents moved from 00:20:25.664 --> 00:20:33.589 where we'd always lived from my like duration of sort of 10 to 19, to Victoria, 00:20:33.589 --> 00:20:35.029 which is in, on mainland Australia. 00:20:35.029 --> 00:20:37.189 So we'd lived in Tasmania up until that point. 00:20:37.789 --> 00:20:40.839 And, I moved over as well. 00:20:40.839 --> 00:20:45.244 I, I, lived on a different property to them with my horses, and just had 00:20:45.244 --> 00:20:49.564 a really, really hard time with like isolation and and kind of venturing 00:20:49.564 --> 00:20:53.074 out into the adult world in a way that perhaps wasn't the most ideal 00:20:53.079 --> 00:20:56.854 transition in that I moved to somewhere where I didn't know anyone, where I 00:20:56.854 --> 00:20:58.774 was very isolated with the horses. 00:20:58.774 --> 00:21:02.764 My parents were coming six months later, so my family wasn't there yet and it 00:21:02.764 --> 00:21:06.634 was just like this, I think health-wise that really started to knock me around. 00:21:06.734 --> 00:21:11.514 And again, looking back, I dunno why that was a supportive decision, but again, 00:21:11.514 --> 00:21:14.954 it's just a different time, isn't it, when you just do different things than 00:21:14.954 --> 00:21:16.694 what it is you do for your own kids now. 00:21:17.234 --> 00:21:21.234 But the reason that this is relevant is because, at that stage I was 00:21:21.234 --> 00:21:22.854 really suffering health-wise. 00:21:22.854 --> 00:21:29.064 I had like a lot of different back issues, which I'd had my entire teens, 00:21:29.064 --> 00:21:33.124 like to the point where my back would just burn and I couldn't escape, the 00:21:33.124 --> 00:21:34.804 pain that I was feeling in my back. 00:21:35.524 --> 00:21:38.234 And, I had a lot of anxiety. 00:21:38.414 --> 00:21:41.024 There was, that was definitely a feature. 00:21:41.124 --> 00:21:45.174 I would say I was a very imbalanced human at that moment in time for a 00:21:45.174 --> 00:21:46.644 few different reasons that fed in. 00:21:47.184 --> 00:21:52.314 And so I started to seek out different solutions to my own wellness. 00:21:53.019 --> 00:21:57.679 And at 1.1 of those solutions was to, I went to a, a fair, like a wellness 00:21:57.679 --> 00:22:01.939 fair and saw a chiropractor there who like got out all of the machines 00:22:01.939 --> 00:22:05.269 and like read the amount of tension that was in my system and, and put 00:22:05.269 --> 00:22:09.050 me on like this prescription of like ridiculous amounts of sessions with him. 00:22:09.759 --> 00:22:12.729 And he popped a vertebrae, popped a vertebrae, popped a disc in 00:22:12.729 --> 00:22:14.139 my back with his adjustments. 00:22:14.679 --> 00:22:20.224 And so, yeah, so that was, so then I, I became even more, incapacitated 00:22:20.229 --> 00:22:22.984 with my own stuff at that point. 00:22:23.514 --> 00:22:29.334 And so that led me, like I said, into being interested in different alternative 00:22:29.634 --> 00:22:33.714 therapies and I was quite stoic at that point in time and I didn't wanna take, 00:22:33.954 --> 00:22:37.974 I don't really know why, but I didn't wanna take traditional pain medication 00:22:37.979 --> 00:22:42.404 or painkillers and, and so I just, I, I think, well, when I say I dunno why, 00:22:42.404 --> 00:22:46.474 like I, I had seen people in my family, you know, struggle with different, 00:22:46.694 --> 00:22:48.464 medications for, for different reasons. 00:22:48.469 --> 00:22:52.514 And I guess that part of me was like very much not wanting to be in that same ilk. 00:22:52.514 --> 00:22:55.184 So that led me on the health science route rootin. 00:22:55.184 --> 00:22:59.094 And that led me further down, wanting to study yoga at a different period of time 00:22:59.094 --> 00:23:01.044 and breath work and all of these things. 00:23:01.044 --> 00:23:04.494 And, and that was definitely a huge part of the next sort of 10 00:23:04.494 --> 00:23:06.024 years that followed after that. 00:23:07.014 --> 00:23:09.684 Rupert Isaacson: So you just said yoga and breath work. 00:23:10.374 --> 00:23:11.244 And wellness. 00:23:11.244 --> 00:23:12.024 So, okay. 00:23:12.024 --> 00:23:13.764 You're, you're looking for solutions for your back. 00:23:14.284 --> 00:23:14.434 Yeah. 00:23:14.524 --> 00:23:17.044 You're there in Victoria wondering what to do. 00:23:17.074 --> 00:23:18.934 You've got the family horses, is that right? 00:23:18.934 --> 00:23:21.124 On a family property, but you are supposed to kind of look 00:23:21.124 --> 00:23:22.324 after, but you dunno anybody. 00:23:22.714 --> 00:23:23.004 Yeah. 00:23:23.094 --> 00:23:27.544 and now you've got a bad back, which, isn't helpful of course if 00:23:27.564 --> 00:23:31.404 you're gonna work with horses and it's young to have a bad back. 00:23:31.524 --> 00:23:36.984 So what do you find and how does that lead you to yoga and breath work and 00:23:36.989 --> 00:23:38.484 where does yoga and breath work lead you? 00:23:41.034 --> 00:23:45.554 Jane Pike: So there's so many odd transitions in this part of the story. 00:23:45.554 --> 00:23:48.104 This is like, you know, if you looked at like a ball of wool at this point, 00:23:48.104 --> 00:23:50.894 this is like the bit where it's all like tangled in together and there's 00:23:50.894 --> 00:23:52.274 lots of different moving parts. 00:23:52.734 --> 00:23:53.754 Yoga and breath work. 00:23:53.754 --> 00:24:04.404 So I decided at some point that I needed to do something a little bit different, 00:24:04.684 --> 00:24:06.154 to what it was that I was doing. 00:24:06.154 --> 00:24:10.264 And I really had got myself into a, a, a bit of a bad place mentally and 00:24:10.264 --> 00:24:12.104 physically, at that point in time. 00:24:12.704 --> 00:24:22.674 And, and the transition, came where I had horses that were, you know, that 00:24:22.674 --> 00:24:24.804 were either very young or that were. 00:24:25.329 --> 00:24:28.569 Able to be sort of semi-retired by that stage. 00:24:28.569 --> 00:24:31.509 So I had no kind of middle ground horses at that moment. 00:24:31.509 --> 00:24:35.559 And so what that meant is that my horses could go onto my parents' property and 00:24:35.559 --> 00:24:38.379 essentially they could look after them without it being a really big deal. 00:24:38.379 --> 00:24:40.689 Cause they had quite a lot of land at that point in time. 00:24:41.169 --> 00:24:44.769 And so there was an opening, I guess, for me to do something different 00:24:44.769 --> 00:24:48.909 because that, at that point my commitment to my animals would've 00:24:48.909 --> 00:24:51.219 probably stopped me doing other things. 00:24:51.219 --> 00:24:53.759 But it just so happened that that was possible, at that moment. 00:24:54.359 --> 00:24:57.459 And that was where, I decided to go to New Zealand. 00:24:57.659 --> 00:25:00.809 And with your back, back in New Zealand? 00:25:01.229 --> 00:25:01.519 Yeah. 00:25:01.769 --> 00:25:04.859 Well, my back was kind of like workable at that point, but it was sort of 00:25:04.859 --> 00:25:06.539 like just permanently not okay. 00:25:06.659 --> 00:25:08.819 So they thought I had rheumatoid arthritis. 00:25:08.824 --> 00:25:11.459 They thought I had like loads of different things that were going on 00:25:11.459 --> 00:25:15.809 because it was sort of unusual to have the degree of what I had, at 00:25:15.869 --> 00:25:16.959 the age that I was like you said. 00:25:17.259 --> 00:25:22.839 And so I went to New Zealand and the second stage of that, which is when 00:25:22.839 --> 00:25:28.359 I sort of jumped ship and moved over there for the summer, I met an Israeli 00:25:28.479 --> 00:25:33.919 and ended up going back to Israel with him like you do, like I do. 00:25:34.189 --> 00:25:34.549 Yeah. 00:25:34.609 --> 00:25:34.819 Yeah. 00:25:34.819 --> 00:25:37.919 And that was after, living in New Zealand for a period of time and 00:25:37.919 --> 00:25:39.479 starting to whle wobble around. 00:25:39.479 --> 00:25:44.764 And at that stage, I was in Tel Aviv and there was a gym across the road. 00:25:45.394 --> 00:25:45.514 I. 00:25:45.604 --> 00:25:49.834 And the gym was the first place that I started to learn Hebrew because I 00:25:49.834 --> 00:25:55.114 was doing this horrendous spin class, and they'd be like, LA, la la, la 00:25:55.474 --> 00:25:56.974 which is like up, down, up, down. 00:25:56.974 --> 00:26:00.424 And so I started to learn all, all my Hebrew was coming from, like the things 00:26:00.429 --> 00:26:03.865 that the gym people were shouting at me, in, in classes to, to do. 00:26:03.924 --> 00:26:09.084 And, and so I, I, I was just like, on a mission basically. 00:26:09.084 --> 00:26:12.244 I had this like window, where I wasn't working necessarily. 00:26:12.244 --> 00:26:13.564 I was living off savings. 00:26:13.564 --> 00:26:16.334 And I, decided to just get well. 00:26:16.334 --> 00:26:21.704 And as one of those classes was a yoga class, and I went into the yoga class 00:26:21.704 --> 00:26:26.714 and I, in my competitive mindset was like, I am really bad at yoga, which 00:26:26.714 --> 00:26:28.814 is like what a lot of people say. 00:26:29.184 --> 00:26:33.234 And it was just because I was like, had the flexibility of a 00:26:33.234 --> 00:26:37.144 concrete truck and , just kind of found everything quite challenging. 00:26:37.144 --> 00:26:37.914 But I kept going. 00:26:38.734 --> 00:26:41.764 And I thought, oh, maybe this is going to be able to help me in some way. 00:26:42.134 --> 00:26:51.014 And that really was kind of the catalyst for seeking, out physical therapies 00:26:51.014 --> 00:26:55.944 that would allow me to, find ease basically to just not be in pain. 00:26:56.344 --> 00:26:56.974 and. 00:26:57.704 --> 00:26:58.879 Alongside of that. 00:26:58.884 --> 00:27:01.489 Again, like I find this really difficult to explain because 00:27:01.489 --> 00:27:02.869 I can't make sense of it. 00:27:02.869 --> 00:27:05.929 A lot of these transitions myself, it's all kind of like bound together. 00:27:06.409 --> 00:27:10.129 But I think that there, like there'd always been a part of me that was 00:27:10.129 --> 00:27:13.854 a seeker, and they'd always been a part of me that was interested in, 00:27:14.294 --> 00:27:17.034 you know, spirituality and wellness. 00:27:17.254 --> 00:27:21.254 And that was motivated by like another parallel thread in my life where, 00:27:21.434 --> 00:27:25.394 you know, someone in my family was incredibly unwell for the duration 00:27:25.394 --> 00:27:27.634 of my life in, mental health wise. 00:27:27.634 --> 00:27:31.574 And I just remember thinking, that to be out of control of my own mind was 00:27:31.574 --> 00:27:33.704 like the worst fate that I can imagine. 00:27:33.704 --> 00:27:36.404 Rupert Isaacson: Before you, you were exposed to that as a kid, you saw 00:27:36.454 --> 00:27:36.674 Jane Pike: Yes. 00:27:36.894 --> 00:27:39.794 You saw mental illness within the family Yes. 00:27:39.894 --> 00:27:40.634 And had to deal. 00:27:41.564 --> 00:27:42.674 Yeah, very much so. 00:27:42.674 --> 00:27:45.974 And I think that kind of also informed a lot of what I talked about earlier 00:27:45.979 --> 00:27:50.024 as far as like, you know, just wanting to not rock the boat and to be the 00:27:50.024 --> 00:27:51.244 good girl and to tick the boxes. 00:27:51.734 --> 00:27:54.524 Because that just meant I could keep things as stable as possible, 00:27:54.554 --> 00:27:57.554 and probably wasn't an element of control in my own life. 00:27:57.554 --> 00:27:58.034 Right. 00:27:58.034 --> 00:27:59.634 And I think that's where a lot of the pain came from 00:28:00.254 --> 00:28:00.474 Rupert Isaacson: you. 00:28:00.474 --> 00:28:03.929 Cause I think, I think, I think for a lot of reader, listeners, they, they 00:28:03.929 --> 00:28:05.339 might be like, well, you know, hold on. 00:28:05.344 --> 00:28:10.829 She's, you know, lifting the stuffy spot and then she's got these horses and Yeah. 00:28:10.829 --> 00:28:18.179 This, but one of the things which we all know is that these things can mask 00:28:19.019 --> 00:28:21.059 other things under the surface and. 00:28:21.434 --> 00:28:28.004 So if you were indeed dealing with mental illness in a sort of, in your 00:28:28.004 --> 00:28:31.154 face kind of a way, then yes, indeed. 00:28:32.564 --> 00:28:36.914 No matter how many on the surface nice things are going on, 00:28:39.074 --> 00:28:40.634 there's an underlying insecurity. 00:28:42.174 --> 00:28:48.494 And as a child that is difficult because it's your security. 00:28:48.854 --> 00:28:54.164 So do you feel that your Yeah, your, your, your, the seeds of 00:28:54.169 --> 00:28:59.474 you as a seeker of human wellness? 00:28:59.474 --> 00:29:03.484 I, I feel this is such an overused term, but, can't think of a better 00:29:03.489 --> 00:29:04.864 one at this particular point. 00:29:05.374 --> 00:29:07.894 Human, okayness, really? 00:29:08.144 --> 00:29:08.564 Mm-hmm. 00:29:08.644 --> 00:29:13.594 Human, the healing that brings us to, that started actually quite early in your life. 00:29:13.714 --> 00:29:14.924 Do, do, do you feel that that was really 00:29:15.084 --> 00:29:15.394 Jane Pike: actually yeah. 00:29:15.574 --> 00:29:16.604 Very, very early. 00:29:16.964 --> 00:29:20.504 And there are three strands that, that aren't necessarily altruistic in the first 00:29:20.504 --> 00:29:25.614 instance, although they have hopefully become more so that, the first is to 00:29:25.619 --> 00:29:27.864 wanna save someone that you love, right? 00:29:27.954 --> 00:29:31.164 So, that was one of my initial motivations. 00:29:31.164 --> 00:29:37.404 And after I, you know, absconded from the, the journalist and the law 00:29:37.494 --> 00:29:40.724 degree, I thought, well, maybe I'll be a psychiatrist or maybe I'll be 00:29:40.724 --> 00:29:45.314 a psychologist because that, or, or a, a, a researcher that could study 00:29:45.314 --> 00:29:50.894 like the ways that the brain works and, and so that I could stop, will 00:29:50.894 --> 00:29:54.944 help you know, this person and also stop it happening from other people. 00:29:55.484 --> 00:30:01.274 And then the second thread of that was what if that's what 00:30:01.274 --> 00:30:03.524 if that's my destiny, right? 00:30:03.524 --> 00:30:05.774 Like, what if there's nothing I can do? 00:30:05.774 --> 00:30:07.544 What if this is my lot? 00:30:07.574 --> 00:30:09.194 What if this is what I'm going to become? 00:30:09.494 --> 00:30:09.714 Wow. 00:30:10.764 --> 00:30:13.254 And so that was the second thread of that. 00:30:13.334 --> 00:30:17.194 And then the third thread was, I used to get quite nervous as a 00:30:17.194 --> 00:30:19.264 competitor and I did love writing. 00:30:19.269 --> 00:30:24.604 And so the psychology of like positive thinking and being able to control 00:30:24.604 --> 00:30:28.144 yourself mentally and emotionally was always really interesting to me. 00:30:28.144 --> 00:30:31.044 Like, ever since I can remember my bedside table was like 00:30:31.044 --> 00:30:32.214 stacked with books about that. 00:30:32.624 --> 00:30:33.344 That was what I heard. 00:30:33.624 --> 00:30:33.774 Did you 00:30:33.774 --> 00:30:36.684 Rupert Isaacson: find those books yourself or did other, did did your, your friends? 00:30:36.684 --> 00:30:38.034 Jane Pike: I did find those books myself. 00:30:38.034 --> 00:30:38.334 Yeah. 00:30:38.339 --> 00:30:39.804 My mom had one. 00:30:40.194 --> 00:30:42.054 oh, I can see the cover of it. 00:30:42.164 --> 00:30:46.314 That winning feeling by, oh, she just recently passed away that her name's just 00:30:46.314 --> 00:30:47.984 gone out of my head and she was such a, 00:30:49.284 --> 00:30:51.384 Rupert Isaacson: I'm gonna look it up on my phone that 00:30:51.384 --> 00:30:51.544 Jane Pike: way. 00:30:51.549 --> 00:30:52.024 Yes. 00:30:52.074 --> 00:30:55.734 But that was, my mom had that like very doggy book and so that kind of 00:30:55.739 --> 00:30:57.704 sparked my, was that a helpful book? 00:30:58.894 --> 00:30:59.364 Would you say? 00:30:59.364 --> 00:30:59.509 Yeah. 00:30:59.509 --> 00:31:02.269 You know, at the time I think it was well ahead of its time. 00:31:02.299 --> 00:31:08.449 Now we'd see it as part of perhaps more the pop psychology, positive thinking, 00:31:08.479 --> 00:31:10.589 James boy, that winning queen and boy. 00:31:10.739 --> 00:31:11.029 Yeah. 00:31:11.029 --> 00:31:12.269 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 00:31:13.309 --> 00:31:13.310 Yeah. 00:31:13.315 --> 00:31:16.269 I mean, because we're so fortunate these days to be exposed to so 00:31:16.549 --> 00:31:18.079 much more because of the internet. 00:31:18.319 --> 00:31:21.679 I think that a lot of what she mentions in there would perhaps say, 00:31:21.739 --> 00:31:26.389 we'd say as part of the mainstream, movement within like, you know, 00:31:26.389 --> 00:31:29.779 affirmations and positive thinking and visualization, that sort of thing. 00:31:29.779 --> 00:31:32.434 But at the time, that was pretty revolutionary, 00:31:32.434 --> 00:31:34.554 especially in the horse world. 00:31:34.894 --> 00:31:37.114 And so I used to have that as my Bible. 00:31:37.114 --> 00:31:40.864 Rupert Isaacson: And, did you used to do affirmations when you were Yeah, I did. 00:31:40.869 --> 00:31:41.454 Like I going with 00:31:41.454 --> 00:31:42.174 Jane Pike: the shows and such. 00:31:42.284 --> 00:31:42.574 Yeah. 00:31:42.574 --> 00:31:43.134 Did did it help? 00:31:43.244 --> 00:31:43.534 Yeah. 00:31:44.394 --> 00:31:45.044 Kind of hurt. 00:31:45.684 --> 00:31:45.964 I did. 00:31:45.964 --> 00:31:46.244 Okay. 00:31:46.554 --> 00:31:46.844 Yeah. 00:31:47.424 --> 00:31:49.584 Rupert Isaacson: Did you, did you feel a shift? 00:31:49.794 --> 00:31:53.064 Did you feel AK in your chest sort of thing 00:31:53.064 --> 00:31:53.204 Jane Pike: or No? 00:31:53.204 --> 00:31:59.524 I, I, no, I think that I always had that underlying, disease within myself, 00:31:59.884 --> 00:32:01.864 but it helped me hold it together. 00:32:02.014 --> 00:32:02.044 Okay. 00:32:02.144 --> 00:32:05.509 and then there were moments where, You know, there's a, it's kind 00:32:05.509 --> 00:32:10.389 of a, a funny, juxtaposition and parallel that like, in some ways 00:32:10.389 --> 00:32:12.459 the lead up was always the worst. 00:32:12.459 --> 00:32:14.079 So that transition coming into it. 00:32:14.079 --> 00:32:16.899 But as soon as I got on my horse, I did feel like I could conquer the world. 00:32:17.289 --> 00:32:17.379 Okay. 00:32:17.479 --> 00:32:21.139 so, and not from a, like, I'm gonna steamroll you type way, but just like, 00:32:21.199 --> 00:32:25.249 I just felt so at home, riding and doing what I did and I was so proud 00:32:25.249 --> 00:32:29.179 of my horse and loved my horse so much that it was, that was kind of 00:32:29.449 --> 00:32:31.609 all I needed to, to get out there. 00:32:31.609 --> 00:32:34.789 Rupert Isaacson: Did you, were you at the time were less successful, for 00:32:34.789 --> 00:32:37.999 example, you know, when you made the tr the transition to university and then 00:32:37.999 --> 00:32:42.039 found it wasn't for you, and then you became the sort of, you know, Jane Pike 00:32:42.039 --> 00:32:45.909 trying this, Jane Pike trying that, people ribbing you about that in your community. 00:32:45.909 --> 00:32:49.719 Were you also at that point trying affirmations in those areas of your 00:32:49.719 --> 00:32:51.699 life and then finding it wasn't working? 00:32:51.909 --> 00:32:56.619 Or did you sort of let it go and how mad Drift, did you really only 00:32:56.829 --> 00:32:59.949 use the affirmations and that sort of thing in your competitive life? 00:33:01.639 --> 00:33:07.279 Jane Pike: There was always a sense of something bigger than myself. 00:33:07.284 --> 00:33:09.979 I don't know that I was using the affirmations at that point. 00:33:10.249 --> 00:33:14.569 At that particular point you describe, I was struggling with a lot of things. 00:33:14.679 --> 00:33:18.099 I was struggling with food and I was struggling with exercise. 00:33:18.199 --> 00:33:20.569 And I used both of those things to punish myself. 00:33:20.574 --> 00:33:20.949 Mm-hmm. 00:33:21.029 --> 00:33:23.589 And I think I, I was so. 00:33:24.639 --> 00:33:27.294 I was in such a dark place at that time. 00:33:27.684 --> 00:33:30.714 And I was so full of self-loathing at that time. 00:33:30.784 --> 00:33:36.154 And now retrospectively I can see that I was just trying to grab onto some 00:33:36.154 --> 00:33:40.054 semblance of control in an experience that just felt completely out of control. 00:33:40.424 --> 00:33:45.014 But I, I would, you know, I would exercise obsessively for like four 00:33:45.019 --> 00:33:47.354 hours a day after I'd worked all day. 00:33:47.454 --> 00:33:49.824 And then I was really, really strict with food. 00:33:49.824 --> 00:33:53.434 And, and I can see that I had a very disordered eating and very 00:33:53.439 --> 00:33:55.634 dysmorphic view of my own body. 00:33:56.104 --> 00:34:02.004 And I, that is definitely, you know, that that's not a feature, thank 00:34:02.004 --> 00:34:03.654 goodness of my experience anymore. 00:34:03.654 --> 00:34:06.239 But it's, it was a very, at that particular moment in time, 00:34:06.239 --> 00:34:08.659 I think I was so, and you're 00:34:08.659 --> 00:34:09.779 Rupert Isaacson: dealing with this chronic pain? 00:34:10.799 --> 00:34:11.019 Jane Pike: Yes. 00:34:11.409 --> 00:34:11.699 Yeah. 00:34:11.969 --> 00:34:12.259 Yeah. 00:34:12.479 --> 00:34:16.939 And, and pain emotionally just of like where I was and, and just 00:34:16.939 --> 00:34:19.789 reconciling lots of different things that had happened in my life. 00:34:19.789 --> 00:34:21.229 So, yeah. 00:34:21.469 --> 00:34:25.304 Rupert Isaacson: So then you find yourself in the Holy Land, doing, Hebrew aerobics. 00:34:25.794 --> 00:34:26.594 Hebrew aerobics. 00:34:26.594 --> 00:34:26.674 Yeah. 00:34:26.679 --> 00:34:27.474 I can make that joke. 00:34:27.479 --> 00:34:34.354 Cause I'm, and so, so I'm the rabbi rubric make this, but at this point, 00:34:34.354 --> 00:34:38.254 and then you, and then you fall into yoga and you're saying, okay, 00:34:38.254 --> 00:34:40.624 well I've been a seeker for a while. 00:34:40.744 --> 00:34:43.724 This feels like you could have some answers for me. 00:34:44.474 --> 00:34:44.834 Yes. 00:34:45.254 --> 00:34:46.634 Where does this take you? 00:34:48.814 --> 00:34:55.384 Jane Pike: So the particular relationship that took me to Israel ended, but I had, 00:34:56.224 --> 00:34:59.464 I'd been there a little while and had quite a good community there and sort of 00:34:59.464 --> 00:35:03.594 was, went back and forth, but obviously I wasn't allowed to stay there, because 00:35:03.654 --> 00:35:06.984 I was foreign and didn't have the right visa requirements and that sort of thing. 00:35:07.384 --> 00:35:11.614 And had been doing bits and pieces there and I'm just trying to piece together. 00:35:11.619 --> 00:35:17.334 It feels like such a, is such a long time ago, but I, so the bit that 00:35:18.664 --> 00:35:22.554 kind of came up in between, gosh, what's the order of operation here? 00:35:23.454 --> 00:35:26.484 I've completely confused this part of my life in my mind. 00:35:26.844 --> 00:35:31.594 So the, at one stage I was in Asia, so I was traveling. 00:35:31.594 --> 00:35:33.424 I traveled quite, quite a lot. 00:35:33.424 --> 00:35:38.504 Yeah, yeah, I left, I went back to Asia, and I met some people in Did you, 00:35:38.504 --> 00:35:41.174 Rupert Isaacson: did you go to Asia looking o on the yoga trail? 00:35:41.174 --> 00:35:43.904 Was that what took you there or were you just traveling 00:35:43.909 --> 00:35:44.504 Jane Pike: now following you? 00:35:44.504 --> 00:35:45.404 I was traveling. 00:35:45.404 --> 00:35:48.374 I was mainly traveling at that moment in time, but the yoga thing was 00:35:48.374 --> 00:35:50.384 definitely like strong in my mind. 00:35:50.434 --> 00:35:53.374 And then intermittently, I was going back to Australia at that 00:35:53.374 --> 00:35:56.914 point, for work and I was working and and what were you doing? 00:35:57.899 --> 00:36:00.839 I, so as part of the health science thing, I'd done like a 00:36:00.839 --> 00:36:02.939 massage certifi certification. 00:36:02.939 --> 00:36:06.599 So I did massage at a APRs, clinic that paid quite well. 00:36:06.599 --> 00:36:09.329 Like, cuz you got like quite a decent amount of money for that. 00:36:09.329 --> 00:36:11.159 Rupert Isaacson: But at this point you've entered the healing arts? 00:36:11.609 --> 00:36:12.179 Jane Pike: Yes. 00:36:12.179 --> 00:36:12.539 Yeah. 00:36:12.544 --> 00:36:16.059 So I was doing that and I knew, you know, sort of a bit about, herbal 00:36:16.289 --> 00:36:19.349 medicine and, and all of these sorts of things and I, I would ride for people. 00:36:19.349 --> 00:36:21.639 So there was like a bit of a mishmash of things that, would 00:36:21.639 --> 00:36:22.749 happen when I went home. 00:36:23.319 --> 00:36:30.419 And, I'd met, someone in Thailand who worked for the Red Cross, and he was 00:36:30.419 --> 00:36:35.849 from Belgium and he was doing some like local on the ground things in Belgium. 00:36:35.849 --> 00:36:42.099 And and it ended up that we got talking quite a lot at that stage. 00:36:42.099 --> 00:36:46.269 It was like, I don't think I, did I have a mobile phone at that stage. 00:36:46.299 --> 00:36:48.549 I might have had a mobile phone, but it was like sort of the 00:36:48.554 --> 00:36:50.199 Hotmail Messenger type thing. 00:36:50.199 --> 00:36:53.409 Like that was like, you had to like log on at the same time and it was like, do 00:36:53.409 --> 00:36:55.959 you remember that there was like an M MSN messenger or something like that? 00:36:55.959 --> 00:36:57.329 It was something like that to me that only feels 00:36:57.329 --> 00:36:59.859 Rupert Isaacson: like five minutes ago, but I, I, I remember, remember when 00:36:59.859 --> 00:37:01.809 mastered on silver to mastered on Yes. 00:37:02.629 --> 00:37:03.159 The swamp. 00:37:03.219 --> 00:37:03.669 So yeah, 00:37:03.849 --> 00:37:05.529 Jane Pike: so that was us chatting at that point. 00:37:05.959 --> 00:37:13.064 And, and gosh, I'm trying to, I'm trying to place my years and the order that I 00:37:13.069 --> 00:37:19.574 did things in, But when I was in, so I, when I was sort of dipping around in yoga 00:37:19.574 --> 00:37:26.434 at home, there was a, there was a lady that I spoke to, so my natural inclination 00:37:26.439 --> 00:37:31.204 coming from a competitive family and also coming from a, family, so coming 00:37:31.204 --> 00:37:35.164 from a position where exercise was like self punishment and self-flagellation, 00:37:35.164 --> 00:37:36.635 and I was like using it. 00:37:36.640 --> 00:37:37.304 And your parents were 00:37:37.324 --> 00:37:39.964 Rupert Isaacson: competitive runners too, so certain amount of grueling 00:37:40.944 --> 00:37:42.364 exercise as part of the deal, right? 00:37:42.814 --> 00:37:43.414 Jane Pike: Yeah, yeah. 00:37:43.419 --> 00:37:46.744 It was, well, they just, like, we we're a very active family, but I 00:37:46.749 --> 00:37:51.034 don't know that, you know, that I used necessarily the gifts that were bespoke 00:37:51.124 --> 00:37:54.304 bestowed to me in the way that I do now. 00:37:54.304 --> 00:37:59.724 But, at that point I did the types of yoga, which was like, you just feel 00:37:59.724 --> 00:38:01.614 like you wanna die at the end of it. 00:38:01.664 --> 00:38:03.134 And that to me was success. 00:38:03.704 --> 00:38:04.634 Rupert Isaacson: What kind of yoga is that? 00:38:05.894 --> 00:38:09.194 Jane Pike: Well, you know, you do, like, I did Ashtanga, and like, 00:38:09.254 --> 00:38:10.814 couldn't sort of like talk us to, for 00:38:10.814 --> 00:38:12.464 Rupert Isaacson: those people that dunno what Ashtanga yoga 00:38:12.464 --> 00:38:15.144 is, talk to USGA yoga Ash. 00:38:15.944 --> 00:38:17.144 Lemme ask you one quick question. 00:38:17.149 --> 00:38:17.264 Yes. 00:38:17.324 --> 00:38:21.344 Had you found, had you found the answer to the pain in your back at this point? 00:38:22.604 --> 00:38:26.314 Jane Pike: No, but I, I could see that there was potential of moving 00:38:26.334 --> 00:38:27.974 in the right direction with it. 00:38:28.004 --> 00:38:28.034 Okay. 00:38:28.124 --> 00:38:29.834 So I, I saw like a light for that. 00:38:29.834 --> 00:38:29.835 Yeah. 00:38:29.840 --> 00:38:30.434 So you felt that the 00:38:30.434 --> 00:38:31.604 Rupert Isaacson: yoga was strengthening you? 00:38:31.664 --> 00:38:32.204 Yes. 00:38:32.264 --> 00:38:32.594 Yeah. 00:38:32.594 --> 00:38:32.654 Yeah. 00:38:32.714 --> 00:38:32.994 Okay. 00:38:32.994 --> 00:38:34.634 So, so tell us about Aang 00:38:34.634 --> 00:38:34.994 Jane Pike: Yoga. 00:38:36.009 --> 00:38:42.609 Ashtanga Yoga comes out of, so there were three main teachers that were students 00:38:42.614 --> 00:38:47.589 of the main kind of yoga guru who brought it to the west called Krishna Aria. 00:38:47.649 --> 00:38:53.534 And, Patabi Joyce was one of those yoga students, and he, created, he 00:38:53.534 --> 00:38:56.564 didn't really create, but he was the one that sort of popularized 00:38:56.564 --> 00:38:58.334 this form of yoga called Ashtanga. 00:38:58.784 --> 00:39:03.854 And there were two other teachers that were descendants of that lineage of the 00:39:03.854 --> 00:39:06.464 Christian Aria lineage and they were aen. 00:39:06.764 --> 00:39:10.124 So some, a lot of people will be familiar with yenga yoga, much more 00:39:10.124 --> 00:39:15.264 structured, a lot of rules around I, ien yoga that deals with body alignment. 00:39:15.484 --> 00:39:19.084 And they use quite a lot of props, like straps and blocks and like, 00:39:19.089 --> 00:39:22.854 there's ways of, Of shaping the body towards this particular outcome. 00:39:23.224 --> 00:39:28.284 And the third person who's much less known, was Mohan Ag Mohan 00:39:28.284 --> 00:39:33.144 and his wife, who are very much into the therapeutic side of yoga. 00:39:33.174 --> 00:39:36.044 And so there were these three, students that studied with him. 00:39:36.284 --> 00:39:38.864 Patabi Joyce is from Myo in India. 00:39:38.864 --> 00:39:41.904 There's kind of a big, movement in mys saw towards Ashtanga. 00:39:42.264 --> 00:39:46.114 And Ashtanga originally was, the form of yoga that was designed 00:39:46.114 --> 00:39:47.764 for teenage boys, basically. 00:39:47.764 --> 00:39:53.164 So a very active, very strength-based, very dynamic form of yoga that would 00:39:53.794 --> 00:39:58.449 suit, a boy with a lot of testosterone, a lot of strength, a lot of, you know, a 00:39:58.449 --> 00:40:01.479 lot of just physical capacity to do that. 00:40:01.879 --> 00:40:04.609 And not necessarily designed for. 00:40:04.984 --> 00:40:10.594 Women especially, because of the types of, breath work that it utilizes 00:40:10.594 --> 00:40:13.744 and the type of body movement that it utilizes has quite a strong 00:40:13.744 --> 00:40:15.244 effect on the reproductive system. 00:40:15.614 --> 00:40:19.154 And because women weren't in mind when that system was around. 00:40:19.514 --> 00:40:24.584 And so it's just a very, very physical, yoga, you go through a set of, 00:40:24.614 --> 00:40:28.004 postures that all form a part of a sequence that are constantly flowing. 00:40:28.254 --> 00:40:30.894 And you tie in the breath with that. 00:40:30.894 --> 00:40:35.304 And so it's, because there's these set sequences and set levels that you go 00:40:35.304 --> 00:40:40.564 through, in order to kind of like graduate to the next level, you, your body needs 00:40:40.564 --> 00:40:42.934 to be able to move in particular ways. 00:40:43.304 --> 00:40:47.724 And for me, that wasn't part of how my body liked to move, you know, in 00:40:47.729 --> 00:40:51.194 terms of, just my natural inclination. 00:40:51.199 --> 00:40:55.934 And so I found it quite challenging, but again, it fitted in quite well with 00:40:57.734 --> 00:40:59.504 trying to make my body do something. 00:40:59.654 --> 00:41:02.574 Rupert Isaacson: why were you attracted to that one and not the other two times? 00:41:02.574 --> 00:41:05.334 Why not the therapeutic type, or why not in the very structured type? 00:41:05.334 --> 00:41:08.394 Why this dynamic made for 18 year old boys type? 00:41:09.264 --> 00:41:11.524 Jane Pike: Well it was popular where I was at that moment. 00:41:11.944 --> 00:41:16.834 And I didn't, reali didn't really realize the lineage that it was springing from. 00:41:16.834 --> 00:41:17.514 And initially you were in, 00:41:17.704 --> 00:41:18.634 Rupert Isaacson: you went to my saw. 00:41:18.634 --> 00:41:19.264 Did you, you ended 00:41:19.264 --> 00:41:20.044 Jane Pike: up in No, I didn't. 00:41:20.044 --> 00:41:24.184 This was in, this was at home that I, that I was doing this and also, You 00:41:24.184 --> 00:41:29.164 know, I really thought that in order to be doing something good for my body, 00:41:29.854 --> 00:41:35.344 I ha you had to really feel it, like the no pain, no gain type philosophy. 00:41:35.344 --> 00:41:40.124 So, it just went in line with, I, I was just trying to escape myself ru like I 00:41:40.124 --> 00:41:42.075 was just so, I needed to sweat it out. 00:41:42.284 --> 00:41:43.544 I needed to push myself. 00:41:43.544 --> 00:41:46.664 I needed to like, punish myself to some degree, even though I wouldn't 00:41:46.664 --> 00:41:47.954 have said that's what I was doing. 00:41:48.254 --> 00:41:48.314 Yeah. 00:41:48.354 --> 00:41:50.004 That's what I needed at the time. 00:41:50.004 --> 00:41:54.444 And to think of being still just meant that I had to meet myself and that would 00:41:54.444 --> 00:41:56.994 probably be one of the worst things that I could think of at that particular time. 00:41:56.994 --> 00:41:57.234 And how 00:41:57.234 --> 00:41:58.464 Rupert Isaacson: did you feel it was working for you? 00:41:58.464 --> 00:42:00.864 Just in terms of building strength or, well, I 00:42:00.864 --> 00:42:01.374 Jane Pike: was sore. 00:42:01.704 --> 00:42:03.234 Like it wasn't really working for me. 00:42:03.234 --> 00:42:07.464 I was, I had sore knees, I had sore elbows, I had sore, you know, shoulders 00:42:07.464 --> 00:42:12.744 because I was, there's a lot of jumping and a lot of like, push up type motions 00:42:12.749 --> 00:42:16.524 and a lot of, very physical things, which for me, if you are doing it repetitively 00:42:16.524 --> 00:42:20.054 and you're not doing it in a way where the body's able to sustain itself, 00:42:20.054 --> 00:42:21.794 you develop compensation patterns. 00:42:21.794 --> 00:42:25.364 And so now it's like, oh gosh, my right shoulder hurts because I'm 00:42:25.369 --> 00:42:28.454 using that arm more and I'm doing this like 50 times a session. 00:42:28.694 --> 00:42:31.154 And so that starts to have a, have an effect. 00:42:31.154 --> 00:42:36.764 But the, the way out of that, was actually following someone that had 00:42:37.094 --> 00:42:42.314 most likely been in a similar position to me, who was one of my main Ashtanga 00:42:42.314 --> 00:42:45.584 teachers, and then started studying with Mohan, who was the therapeutic. 00:42:45.879 --> 00:42:50.669 Teacher and she came back from, Chenai, which is where he was based, 00:42:50.669 --> 00:42:56.549 and just started teaching this like incredibly slow, form of yoga. 00:42:56.579 --> 00:42:58.939 And I was like, what is this? 00:42:59.249 --> 00:43:00.779 Like this is doing nothing. 00:43:01.109 --> 00:43:03.869 I now need to go for like a 50 k run if I do this. 00:43:03.959 --> 00:43:06.329 Like, that was my mentality, you know, it's not enough to kind of 00:43:06.329 --> 00:43:09.509 keep me in shape or whatever it is I was supposed to be at that time. 00:43:09.839 --> 00:43:16.379 And so she sort of sparked a seed in me and then from there I did some, 00:43:16.649 --> 00:43:19.949 prodding around on the internet and decided that I was gonna go and study 00:43:19.949 --> 00:43:23.969 with them directly, when I was in India, where I was gonna go to India. 00:43:24.599 --> 00:43:24.869 Yeah. 00:43:25.469 --> 00:43:27.809 Rupert Isaacson: So you end up in India and now you're studying 00:43:28.139 --> 00:43:31.019 this therapeutic form of yoga. 00:43:31.079 --> 00:43:31.259 Yes. 00:43:31.799 --> 00:43:32.249 Yes. 00:43:32.369 --> 00:43:32.999 Is your pain 00:43:32.999 --> 00:43:33.599 Jane Pike: getting better? 00:43:34.529 --> 00:43:38.649 So, Mohan and his wife Indra are quite magical people. 00:43:39.909 --> 00:43:42.429 And the first course that I did was eight weeks. 00:43:42.429 --> 00:43:47.889 And you go and you sit on their concrete floor and you listen all day to them and 00:43:47.889 --> 00:43:52.389 you do practices and they teach you the Vaers and they teach you the everything. 00:43:52.439 --> 00:43:55.794 And you go and have a consultation with Indra. 00:43:55.824 --> 00:44:01.434 And Indra is like, because she's a woman, she doesn't get the 00:44:01.434 --> 00:44:04.524 same accolades as her husband. 00:44:05.334 --> 00:44:08.874 But actually she's probably the most skilled of the two. 00:44:09.544 --> 00:44:12.394 But she's just ag mohans wife, if that makes sense. 00:44:12.399 --> 00:44:13.894 But she's studied the same as him. 00:44:13.899 --> 00:44:18.274 She's actually, she's, she's really the magical, one of the two of them. 00:44:18.374 --> 00:44:21.615 And she, because I was female, she was the one that saw me. 00:44:21.620 --> 00:44:24.854 Cuz there's quite strict customs there in terms of who sees who. 00:44:25.454 --> 00:44:30.374 So we go into the room and she asks me to, she does like a, gets me to 00:44:30.374 --> 00:44:31.844 move in a couple of different ways. 00:44:31.849 --> 00:44:34.954 And, and their approach is they give you a personal practice. 00:44:34.954 --> 00:44:39.335 So they actually give you the postures to do based on your mind and your body. 00:44:39.554 --> 00:44:43.144 Which is a first for me because everything else had been generic up until that point. 00:44:43.754 --> 00:44:46.724 So they designed postures for you, they designed a sequence for you. 00:44:46.754 --> 00:44:49.464 And, I went in, I can remember it really clearly. 00:44:49.464 --> 00:44:53.124 I went into her little room and she is like, for the time you are 00:44:53.124 --> 00:44:55.364 here, you're only doing what I say. 00:44:55.784 --> 00:44:57.894 You're only doing these postures. 00:44:58.254 --> 00:45:01.054 Because I was doing my Ashtanga Pro practice in the morning. 00:45:01.054 --> 00:45:04.984 And then going to them, you see this is the level of my addiction actually. 00:45:04.984 --> 00:45:08.734 Like, I was like, I was doing something that I thought would like keep me 00:45:08.734 --> 00:45:11.164 strong and fear and then I was gonna go and do the therapeutic yoga, 00:45:11.169 --> 00:45:13.714 which was like the nice thing on the side that I could tell other people. 00:45:13.719 --> 00:45:16.534 And she was like, no, no, no, you you, you are not doing that anymore. 00:45:16.564 --> 00:45:17.494 You're not doing that. 00:45:17.854 --> 00:45:20.164 And that was like a crisis of, for me, for a month. 00:45:20.164 --> 00:45:23.134 I, I did do what she said cuz I was like, I'm here. 00:45:23.134 --> 00:45:25.414 It feels very disrespectful to not do. 00:45:25.804 --> 00:45:28.414 What she is asking if I'm gonna be in this. 00:45:28.714 --> 00:45:35.244 But I had a real moment with that, that was like the beginning, I think 00:45:35.244 --> 00:45:39.834 of breaking, it was basically like an alcoholic arriving and them saying, you're 00:45:39.839 --> 00:45:41.514 not drinking for the next eight weeks. 00:45:41.934 --> 00:45:42.784 And you're like, what? 00:45:43.214 --> 00:45:47.844 Like that, that's how it felt like I was, that's how I imagined it would feel. 00:45:47.844 --> 00:45:54.024 It's like I was so addicted to that as a way of like keeping my mind 00:45:54.024 --> 00:45:58.704 in a, in a container, that I could manage that to think about letting 00:45:58.704 --> 00:46:00.444 that go was actually terrifying. 00:46:00.574 --> 00:46:04.524 Rupert Isaacson: And so you felt that the Ashtanga was basically the keeping 00:46:04.524 --> 00:46:09.504 the lid on your, wobbly mental health and that if you were to let that go, you might 00:46:09.864 --> 00:46:11.844 wobble outside the jar sort of thing? 00:46:12.384 --> 00:46:12.674 Jane Pike: Yeah. 00:46:13.044 --> 00:46:13.284 Yeah. 00:46:13.289 --> 00:46:16.794 And, and also beyond that, I think that, and I, I don't know, sorry, this is 00:46:16.794 --> 00:46:19.704 going a little bit outside the REIT of what your podcast is about, isn't it? 00:46:19.704 --> 00:46:20.034 But it's, 00:46:20.034 --> 00:46:20.434 Rupert Isaacson: no, not at all. 00:46:20.624 --> 00:46:22.944 It's, it's, it's how we get, it's how we get, it's how we 00:46:22.944 --> 00:46:24.294 get to self-actualization. 00:46:24.744 --> 00:46:25.194 Jane Pike: Yeah. 00:46:25.199 --> 00:46:26.304 It's interesting as well. 00:46:26.304 --> 00:46:30.964 I think that for me, and the reason that I talk about this, well, I have no 00:46:30.969 --> 00:46:34.774 shame around it, but also I think that a lot of, I was gonna say women, but I 00:46:34.774 --> 00:46:38.734 think a lot of people will go through this, where, the way that I controlled 00:46:38.734 --> 00:46:42.064 my life was through controlling my body. 00:46:42.694 --> 00:46:44.554 And so my. 00:46:44.959 --> 00:46:49.129 Thought processes around controlling my body at that moment in time 00:46:49.579 --> 00:46:52.909 was with punishing exercise. 00:46:53.879 --> 00:47:00.539 And so if I let that go, I thought that would mean a, I would start looking 00:47:00.544 --> 00:47:06.359 a certain way, which was, again, I didn't even really have ideas about, 00:47:06.359 --> 00:47:11.309 like, I didn't, it's, it's funny to reflect on because it wasn't so much 00:47:11.309 --> 00:47:14.969 that I was like judging people's body shapes, but for me it was just control. 00:47:14.999 --> 00:47:17.369 Like, it was like I just was aiming to look a certain way 00:47:17.374 --> 00:47:18.629 in order to stay controlled. 00:47:18.999 --> 00:47:23.194 And that involved, I guess I had so much adrenaline crossing 00:47:23.194 --> 00:47:26.704 through my system, that that was kind of burning that up as well. 00:47:26.704 --> 00:47:29.554 And if it wasn't being burned up, then I had to deal with it in other ways. 00:47:29.744 --> 00:47:30.094 Right. 00:47:30.244 --> 00:47:36.404 But I found interestingly that, because I am a good student and I do do what 00:47:36.404 --> 00:47:39.664 I'm told, if I, into a certain extent at that moment in time, that I followed the 00:47:39.664 --> 00:47:41.044 practice, I was like, well, I'm here. 00:47:41.044 --> 00:47:45.184 And I, it was actually so beautiful, aside from I would get up in the 00:47:45.184 --> 00:47:48.844 morning, and for those of you who've been to India, it's like this very, 00:47:49.294 --> 00:47:50.974 it's a mishmash of different things. 00:47:50.974 --> 00:47:55.644 So on the one hand, you'd have the call to prayer that's very, very 00:47:55.954 --> 00:47:58.294 beautiful, like so, so beautiful. 00:47:58.294 --> 00:47:59.614 I'm up before the sun. 00:48:00.004 --> 00:48:01.924 It's, I've, I've laid out my little yoga mat. 00:48:01.924 --> 00:48:03.364 I'm on my little concrete floor. 00:48:03.394 --> 00:48:05.704 My, my place is super basic. 00:48:06.024 --> 00:48:08.004 You know, there's no toilet, no anything like that. 00:48:08.274 --> 00:48:11.184 I've got the colder prayer, the air is warm. 00:48:11.544 --> 00:48:13.524 I'm like, this feels lush. 00:48:13.524 --> 00:48:16.644 And then all of a sudden someone starts like hoking outside my window, 00:48:16.914 --> 00:48:18.294 like, like clearing your throat. 00:48:18.294 --> 00:48:20.574 And like, and you know, like the abolitions begin, you're 00:48:20.574 --> 00:48:22.044 like, what a j this is India. 00:48:22.044 --> 00:48:22.314 Right? 00:48:22.314 --> 00:48:26.034 Like the juxtaposition between this is the most sublime thing 00:48:26.034 --> 00:48:26.964 that's ever happened to me. 00:48:26.964 --> 00:48:31.104 And then all of a sudden someone starts like, just literally like throwing up. 00:48:31.104 --> 00:48:31.974 Rupert Isaacson: Take your shit right outside your window. 00:48:32.304 --> 00:48:32.544 Yeah, 00:48:32.549 --> 00:48:33.204 Jane Pike: exactly. 00:48:33.264 --> 00:48:34.724 You're like, well, right in the eye. 00:48:34.944 --> 00:48:36.294 Back to reality. 00:48:36.294 --> 00:48:37.374 Back to reality. 00:48:37.564 --> 00:48:41.344 And so that was, and what I noticed over the course of six weeks was 00:48:41.349 --> 00:48:45.934 with this very, very, very soft and gentle practice, everything started 00:48:45.934 --> 00:48:47.884 to shift for me, at that moment. 00:48:48.404 --> 00:48:52.704 And so that was a really huge, transition. 00:48:52.704 --> 00:48:57.924 And I kind of dedicated myself to them for a long period of time. 00:48:58.494 --> 00:49:00.634 How long, years. 00:49:00.814 --> 00:49:03.934 Like I studied with them for years and I did the practice for years. 00:49:03.934 --> 00:49:04.654 And I, I thought 00:49:04.659 --> 00:49:07.854 Rupert Isaacson: So you would say Indra all I want to do what? 00:49:08.584 --> 00:49:10.384 So it's Mohan and Indra. 00:49:11.074 --> 00:49:11.824 Mohan. 00:49:11.914 --> 00:49:13.744 Mohan Mohan is the, is the family name? 00:49:14.104 --> 00:49:14.584 Yes. 00:49:14.589 --> 00:49:14.614 Yeah. 00:49:14.804 --> 00:49:15.094 Yeah. 00:49:15.454 --> 00:49:16.574 They were, were they're still practice. 00:49:16.794 --> 00:49:19.684 The, the Mohans were your mentors basically? 00:49:19.689 --> 00:49:19.734 Yes. 00:49:20.314 --> 00:49:20.524 Yeah. 00:49:20.674 --> 00:49:21.424 But for how long? 00:49:21.424 --> 00:49:22.294 For like a decade. 00:49:22.294 --> 00:49:23.464 For like five years. 00:49:23.464 --> 00:49:24.294 Jane Pike: For, yeah. 00:49:24.334 --> 00:49:24.614 A decade. 00:49:24.804 --> 00:49:25.094 Yeah. 00:49:25.124 --> 00:49:25.414 Yeah. 00:49:25.444 --> 00:49:25.734 Okay. 00:49:25.924 --> 00:49:29.874 And at that stage as well, like, I really, I, and, and I think this suited 00:49:29.874 --> 00:49:35.724 me because it meant that I didn't have to show up in life for other things that 00:49:35.724 --> 00:49:38.814 were challenging to me at that moment. 00:49:39.024 --> 00:49:44.784 I thought I just wanted to go and be in a cave, and I was just gonna be that 00:49:44.789 --> 00:49:51.384 person that like, meditated and did yoga and I just was going to get enlightened. 00:49:51.414 --> 00:49:52.554 That was like my idea. 00:49:52.554 --> 00:49:54.264 I was like, yeah, I'm just, that's what I'm gonna do. 00:49:54.294 --> 00:49:55.554 I'm gonna like, check out. 00:49:56.064 --> 00:49:56.964 I'm just gonna do this. 00:49:56.964 --> 00:50:01.274 I'm gonna be in whatever way I need to be in life, as much as I need to be, and 00:50:01.274 --> 00:50:04.004 then I'm just going to do this thing. 00:50:04.454 --> 00:50:06.554 I'm just gonna be by myself and do the thing. 00:50:06.554 --> 00:50:10.934 And I think that, again, retrospectively, that was very convenient. 00:50:11.114 --> 00:50:16.904 Because it, you know, relationships are hard and like showing up 00:50:16.904 --> 00:50:17.924 in the world notice is hard. 00:50:17.929 --> 00:50:18.064 Yeah. 00:50:18.064 --> 00:50:18.224 Really. 00:50:18.374 --> 00:50:22.934 And, and if you can, like, if you can be like, wow, maybe actually the idea is 00:50:22.934 --> 00:50:27.284 that you should just like, be in a cave and like, and secrete yourself away. 00:50:27.284 --> 00:50:31.739 Like, was, that was quite a attractive, idea at that moment because, and 00:50:31.739 --> 00:50:33.599 Rupert Isaacson: was that promoted by the, the mohans? 00:50:33.599 --> 00:50:36.299 Was that more your, your own idea that that was what you had to do? 00:50:37.004 --> 00:50:41.094 Jane Pike: They were very much, not necessarily in overt ways, because I 00:50:41.094 --> 00:50:42.834 don't wanna seek to represent them at all. 00:50:42.834 --> 00:50:47.694 They're, they're very encouraging and will create a supportive framework 00:50:47.694 --> 00:50:49.704 around whatever your life is showing. 00:50:49.704 --> 00:50:49.734 Okay. 00:50:50.284 --> 00:50:56.914 But they're ultimately as a practice, you know, like they're aiming to bring the 00:50:56.914 --> 00:51:04.294 mind towards one pointed focus, and that is about controlling earthly desires. 00:51:04.714 --> 00:51:04.954 Okay. 00:51:05.014 --> 00:51:05.314 Right. 00:51:05.404 --> 00:51:06.709 So, leaving the 00:51:06.889 --> 00:51:09.799 Rupert Isaacson: senses behind, leaving the body behind Yes. 00:51:09.899 --> 00:51:10.319 The mind. 00:51:10.389 --> 00:51:10.679 Yeah. 00:51:11.319 --> 00:51:11.999 Transcendent everyth. 00:51:12.149 --> 00:51:12.439 Jane Pike: Yeah. 00:51:12.779 --> 00:51:18.189 So, and they're, you know, for instance, if I just remember hearing, him talk 00:51:18.189 --> 00:51:23.279 one day and, that when he traveled, he didn't go looking around at things, he 00:51:23.279 --> 00:51:25.139 would go back to his room and meditate. 00:51:25.679 --> 00:51:30.719 And I remember thinking, wow, like, that's interesting, isn't it? 00:51:30.719 --> 00:51:33.989 Like to not be interested in what's going on around you in a place that 00:51:33.989 --> 00:51:38.519 you've never been before, but instead to just do the work that you came for 00:51:38.519 --> 00:51:43.409 and then just go back and meditate was kind of like jarring thought for me. 00:51:43.509 --> 00:51:48.309 And that, you know, relationship has a purpose for recreation. 00:51:48.329 --> 00:51:52.719 And then, you know, beyond that, it's like, not that they weren't very loving 00:51:52.719 --> 00:51:56.139 towards each other, but the, they, they understood that their ultimate 00:51:56.139 --> 00:51:57.999 purpose was to unite with the divine. 00:51:58.089 --> 00:51:58.809 And that was. 00:51:59.209 --> 00:52:02.304 That was bigger than what either of them were individually or 00:52:02.304 --> 00:52:03.444 what their relationship was. 00:52:03.984 --> 00:52:07.364 And so, you know, there are a lot of beautiful things that came out of that 00:52:07.424 --> 00:52:12.204 experience for me and a lot of problematic things, that came out of that for me. 00:52:12.264 --> 00:52:15.774 I, I won't speak for them or their lineage, but for me from a, you 00:52:15.774 --> 00:52:19.974 know, cultural perspective and from the perspective of who I understand 00:52:19.974 --> 00:52:23.454 myself to be now and who I understand myself to have always been, but just 00:52:23.454 --> 00:52:25.234 didn't really recognize, because, so 00:52:25.414 --> 00:52:27.184 Rupert Isaacson: at, at a certain point, did you become like an 00:52:27.189 --> 00:52:28.734 instructor you were leading? 00:52:29.014 --> 00:52:29.254 Jane Pike: Yeah. 00:52:29.254 --> 00:52:29.264 Yeah. 00:52:29.264 --> 00:52:30.604 I was hard out teaching. 00:52:30.604 --> 00:52:30.904 Yeah. 00:52:30.904 --> 00:52:30.905 Yeah. 00:52:30.994 --> 00:52:31.264 Okay. 00:52:31.264 --> 00:52:33.934 You, you are you like I did all of the things. 00:52:33.934 --> 00:52:34.324 Rupert Isaacson: Yeah. 00:52:34.404 --> 00:52:34.694 Yeah. 00:52:35.014 --> 00:52:38.614 Being flown around the world, teaching wealthy Chinese businessman type thing. 00:52:38.614 --> 00:52:39.574 Yoga or, 00:52:39.604 --> 00:52:39.844 --- ------ Jane Pike: yeah. 00:52:39.844 --> 00:52:44.014 I did work in China for food in Hong Kong and like, went to China and I, 00:52:44.014 --> 00:52:45.484 I was teaching all over the place. 00:52:45.489 --> 00:52:46.684 I was in Bali. 00:52:46.689 --> 00:52:49.414 I was, going to set up retreat centers and yoga centers. 00:52:49.714 --> 00:52:50.674 So this is success. 00:52:50.674 --> 00:52:53.194 Rupert Isaacson: I mean, you've now found this, this thing with 00:52:53.194 --> 00:52:54.634 this, this therapeutic yoga. 00:52:55.024 --> 00:52:58.564 I presume it's making you feel better to some degree. 00:52:58.984 --> 00:53:01.144 It must be making other people feel better. 00:53:01.149 --> 00:53:02.344 Jane Pike: That's the irony, isn't it? 00:53:02.344 --> 00:53:03.544 It gave me a focus. 00:53:03.544 --> 00:53:05.254 I don't know that it made me feel better. 00:53:05.524 --> 00:53:05.644 Okay. 00:53:05.764 --> 00:53:07.324 It gave me a focus. 00:53:07.484 --> 00:53:11.739 And, and I think that that was a relief having been. 00:53:12.009 --> 00:53:16.179 Swimming around in this un, you know, what am I gonna do with my life thing 00:53:16.179 --> 00:53:19.509 all of a sudden, like I was something that I could attach something to. 00:53:19.514 --> 00:53:20.039 You're good at it. 00:53:20.219 --> 00:53:22.449 Rupert Isaacson: People want you, you're marketable. 00:53:23.199 --> 00:53:23.499 Yeah. 00:53:23.799 --> 00:53:24.729 You've mastered it. 00:53:24.909 --> 00:53:26.469 If you found mastery of something 00:53:27.069 --> 00:53:27.309 Jane Pike: Yeah. 00:53:27.429 --> 00:53:28.989 Enough to be able to impart 00:53:29.649 --> 00:53:29.979 Rupert Isaacson: some stuff. 00:53:29.979 --> 00:53:31.039 To where are the horses in this? 00:53:31.039 --> 00:53:33.249 Have they gone completely by the by at this point? 00:53:33.459 --> 00:53:34.809 Jane Pike: They have at this point, yeah. 00:53:34.814 --> 00:53:35.079 Mm-hmm. 00:53:35.169 --> 00:53:35.439 Yeah. 00:53:35.799 --> 00:53:37.269 Rupert Isaacson: Are you missing them somehow? 00:53:37.299 --> 00:53:37.509 Yes. 00:53:37.509 --> 00:53:38.319 I Are you not thinking about them? 00:53:38.549 --> 00:53:38.839 Jane Pike: Yeah. 00:53:38.939 --> 00:53:39.999 No, I am missing them. 00:53:40.029 --> 00:53:40.329 Yeah. 00:53:40.329 --> 00:53:41.199 I am missing them. 00:53:41.289 --> 00:53:41.589 Yeah. 00:53:42.009 --> 00:53:42.279 Yeah. 00:53:42.639 --> 00:53:47.649 And I, and I had like, you know, there's, I had crises of, of sorts again, because 00:53:48.509 --> 00:53:52.169 I was traveling quite extensively and I was doing other work in between there. 00:53:52.199 --> 00:53:56.639 But you know, you see a lot of people, in Bali for instance, 00:53:56.644 --> 00:53:59.699 I saw people that were expats. 00:54:00.099 --> 00:54:05.269 And there's like an expat community, and I just remember feeling deeply uncomfortable 00:54:05.769 --> 00:54:11.079 with the situation in that they're, they're very affluent in the country 00:54:11.084 --> 00:54:14.439 that they're, they've arrived in because obviously the currency that they have come 00:54:14.439 --> 00:54:17.769 with is worth a lot more than the currency they're playing with in that moment. 00:54:17.769 --> 00:54:22.809 They all have housekeepers and there's just this like residue of colonialism 00:54:22.814 --> 00:54:26.449 and, hierarchical living that really, really made me uncomfortable. 00:54:26.449 --> 00:54:27.929 And, and the. 00:54:28.559 --> 00:54:34.469 Yoga community in those places is very much a part of that because 00:54:34.469 --> 00:54:38.909 a lot of the reason why people go there in the first place is to seek 00:54:39.359 --> 00:54:43.569 some form of wellness, and wellness solutions and wellness retreats. 00:54:43.574 --> 00:54:47.659 And there's a lot of people that have set up things there, that are kind of 00:54:47.659 --> 00:54:52.699 doing so under this pseudo idea that they're, you know, helping humanity. 00:54:52.699 --> 00:54:55.339 But actually what I saw was just like, well, this is just a 00:54:55.339 --> 00:54:58.669 convenient, I don't know, it just really didn't sit well with me. 00:54:58.719 --> 00:55:02.199 And you, and you saw that in a, in a few different places that kind 00:55:02.199 --> 00:55:03.959 of, oh, we're helping out here. 00:55:04.269 --> 00:55:06.999 But actually it's like, no, you're under really good wicket and you are doing 00:55:06.999 --> 00:55:08.999 so at the expense of some local people. 00:55:09.759 --> 00:55:12.459 And it just is just, was weird to me. 00:55:12.789 --> 00:55:19.419 Yeah, but, and so I, I, I, I al I always had this thought of like, this can't be 00:55:19.449 --> 00:55:25.599 the end point because I watched, I just, I remember sitting in a cafe and I like 00:55:26.049 --> 00:55:31.029 saw a group of, men come in that were all in their little, like, you know, 00:55:31.414 --> 00:55:32.094 hos or whatever. 00:55:32.094 --> 00:55:32.334 I was gonna 00:55:32.334 --> 00:55:33.554 Rupert Isaacson: say seven dwarves outfits. 00:55:33.574 --> 00:55:34.394 I'm, I'm, I'm on there. 00:55:35.504 --> 00:55:36.354 Jane Pike: Like, they're in go. 00:55:36.354 --> 00:55:37.834 It's like there's a, there's a look. 00:55:38.304 --> 00:55:42.574 And I, I, and I looked at them and I thought, I can't be that. 00:55:42.574 --> 00:55:44.044 I just can't end up like that. 00:55:44.104 --> 00:55:45.514 Like I can't be that. 00:55:45.694 --> 00:55:49.954 And, and I thought at some point when you've stayed away 00:55:49.959 --> 00:55:52.534 too long, you can't go back. 00:55:53.074 --> 00:55:55.864 You know, because you've either absented yourself from your culture 00:55:55.894 --> 00:55:59.014 or financially you just can't go back because now you're used to living 00:55:59.014 --> 00:56:01.534 in India and everything is so cheap. 00:56:01.534 --> 00:56:05.954 And, and so I I, I always had this idea of this was temporary, but I wasn't quite 00:56:05.954 --> 00:56:07.814 sure where things were gonna lead next. 00:56:07.894 --> 00:56:10.564 Rupert Isaacson: so where did they lead next and what was the transition point? 00:56:11.404 --> 00:56:13.984 Jane Pike: So the transition point was, 00:56:14.550 --> 00:56:16.500 there are a few things that happened. 00:56:16.550 --> 00:56:20.630 Cuz this is sort of like a few, you know, over a, the course of many years, 00:56:20.960 --> 00:56:27.830 the, I was in Europe for a period and I went to see my friend who was 00:56:28.070 --> 00:56:30.330 the Red Cross worker that I mentioned. 00:56:30.550 --> 00:56:31.090 Oh, the Israeli 00:56:31.250 --> 00:56:32.050 Rupert Isaacson: guy previously? 00:56:32.080 --> 00:56:32.370 Yeah. 00:56:32.390 --> 00:56:32.610 No, 00:56:33.150 --> 00:56:33.830 Jane Pike: the Belgian guy. 00:56:34.010 --> 00:56:34.910 Belgian, yeah. 00:56:34.910 --> 00:56:34.911 Yeah. 00:56:35.360 --> 00:56:39.630 And there were some local projects that they were involved with, that I was just 00:56:39.630 --> 00:56:41.460 volunteering at and helping out with. 00:56:42.180 --> 00:56:49.450 And then around that time, The tsunami happened, it was like 2000 and, 2004. 00:56:49.450 --> 00:56:52.840 And so there were all people getting dispatched over there initially 00:56:52.845 --> 00:56:54.960 to Thailand, then to Sri Lanka. 00:56:55.650 --> 00:57:00.200 And, Chennai where I'd been studying in India was marginally affected 00:57:00.230 --> 00:57:04.600 like Southern India, but not so badly, as the, as the other places. 00:57:05.140 --> 00:57:07.330 And I had the opportunity to go. 00:57:07.490 --> 00:57:12.870 And I'd already been doing, different pieces of work, that were like 00:57:12.900 --> 00:57:17.400 aid humanitarian related, projects, whenever I could around the place, 00:57:17.530 --> 00:57:19.985 both personally and then kind of hooking in with other groups. 00:57:20.885 --> 00:57:24.435 And so I went, and decided to be a part of the, like, 00:57:24.440 --> 00:57:26.895 dispatch that went to Sri Lanka. 00:57:27.865 --> 00:57:33.025 and so shortly after that happened, that's where I arrived and was 00:57:33.025 --> 00:57:34.345 there for the next 12 months. 00:57:34.395 --> 00:57:40.185 Also, and I think that that was a real sort of turning point for me as well, 00:57:40.285 --> 00:57:42.715 where I was like, I need something. 00:57:44.035 --> 00:57:45.865 I, I, I just need to figure myself out. 00:57:45.865 --> 00:57:47.305 Like I really need to figure myself out. 00:57:47.305 --> 00:57:48.955 And I went back to New Zealand after that. 00:57:48.955 --> 00:57:49.435 That's where I was 00:57:49.435 --> 00:57:51.146 Rupert Isaacson: like, okay, I'll, oh, hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on. 00:57:51.505 --> 00:57:53.115 You must have done something quite interesting down there. 00:57:53.115 --> 00:57:54.535 And she like, what did you do? 00:57:55.235 --> 00:57:56.640 In the aftermath of the tsunami. 00:57:57.240 --> 00:57:58.260 Can't just gloss over that. 00:57:58.260 --> 00:57:58.500 Come 00:57:58.500 --> 00:57:58.590 Jane Pike: on. 00:57:59.250 --> 00:57:59.490 Yeah. 00:57:59.730 --> 00:58:00.210 Yeah. 00:58:00.670 --> 00:58:03.490 Well there were sort of different, okay, that's enough. 00:58:03.490 --> 00:58:03.970 Let's move on. 00:58:04.780 --> 00:58:06.370 Yeah, there were different parts to it. 00:58:06.370 --> 00:58:11.640 The first part was, anyone who's done any sort of aid work and, and I had 00:58:11.640 --> 00:58:14.760 been doing things prior, so it wasn't sort of my first foray, but the, 00:58:15.250 --> 00:58:20.080 there's a huge amount of corruption in Asia and in, you know, Indian 00:58:20.085 --> 00:58:21.701 subcontinent and all around there. 00:58:21.706 --> 00:58:23.950 And I'd been traveling and working all around there, so I was kind 00:58:23.950 --> 00:58:25.840 of used to the use of the game. 00:58:26.380 --> 00:58:31.330 But after the, tsunami kind of hit new levels, especially, especially 00:58:31.330 --> 00:58:34.060 with the president of Sri Lanka, who was, female at that time. 00:58:34.060 --> 00:58:38.745 I'm not quite sure who it is now, but she was, there was a huge outpouring 00:58:38.750 --> 00:58:44.175 of public donations, because, I mean, this is one of the first times really 00:58:44.175 --> 00:58:50.765 I think, where something to that scale had been caught on camera, for the 00:58:50.765 --> 00:58:53.045 mainstream to be able to experience. 00:58:53.050 --> 00:58:55.865 And so, you know, people holidaying had caught on their mobile phones 00:58:56.005 --> 00:58:59.885 and it was all over the, the news and it was so shocking. 00:58:59.885 --> 00:59:03.915 Like it was, it was really, really so shocking that, it moved people 00:59:03.920 --> 00:59:07.215 to give money in ways that they hadn't really given money before. 00:59:07.845 --> 00:59:12.115 And so, of course this goes to the powers that be initially in the country. 00:59:12.115 --> 00:59:14.555 That doesn't go to the people that who need it. 00:59:14.575 --> 00:59:18.715 It goes to the people who you hope are going to equitably distribute it. 00:59:19.145 --> 00:59:20.855 And in Sri Lanka, that definitely wasn't the case. 00:59:20.860 --> 00:59:24.865 So, she profited very handsomely and fabulously off people's, 00:59:24.945 --> 00:59:27.045 donations in that first instance. 00:59:27.050 --> 00:59:35.940 And so, When, when you work or are with a organization that are, that 00:59:35.940 --> 00:59:39.510 have a huge administrative background, there is also limitations in what 00:59:39.510 --> 00:59:43.275 you can do because everything has to go through, process of course. 00:59:43.785 --> 00:59:47.175 So, how, how publicly, good this is to talk about. 00:59:47.175 --> 00:59:49.875 But anyway, so that was the first part of it was with, with the organization. 00:59:49.880 --> 00:59:53.565 Then what we decided was that we would come back independently. 00:59:53.875 --> 00:59:56.480 And we thought, well, you know, if we had like you and a small 00:59:56.480 --> 00:59:56.690 Rupert Isaacson: group 00:59:56.690 --> 00:59:58.130 Jane Pike: of people there, yes. 00:59:58.130 --> 00:59:58.310 Yeah. 00:59:58.370 --> 01:00:04.340 If we came back and we independently raised money and we had like thousands 01:00:04.340 --> 01:00:09.140 of dollars in our own bank accounts that were, we just directly like 01:00:09.140 --> 01:00:11.030 went in and just helped people out. 01:00:11.690 --> 01:00:16.280 We could do something faster than we could if we have to wait for 01:00:16.280 --> 01:00:17.560 this whole process to happen. 01:00:18.180 --> 01:00:22.270 And so, the person I was with, he was a, a very skilled photographer. 01:00:22.270 --> 01:00:26.470 I had sort of other skills that were going on and the other thing that 01:00:26.475 --> 01:00:30.160 we did at that point in time was, my main role was I worked with the, 01:00:30.190 --> 01:00:33.910 the children quite a lot and it was very much making it up as you go. 01:00:33.910 --> 01:00:36.830 So I could see that, the kids were quite traumatized but 01:00:36.835 --> 01:00:38.390 also desperate to be children. 01:00:38.700 --> 01:00:43.670 And so I said to them, cuz one of the things I was really aware of was the. 01:00:44.375 --> 01:00:48.635 Sort of white savior thing that happens or you create that mentality 01:00:48.635 --> 01:00:52.925 where, you are handing out money and it's a very disempowering situation 01:00:52.925 --> 01:00:55.655 for people, especially individuals, you know, with their own pride 01:00:55.655 --> 01:00:57.895 and their own, stuff going on. 01:00:58.285 --> 01:01:03.565 And so with the children, I thought, well, how can we make it so that they feel 01:01:03.565 --> 01:01:06.625 like they're actually raising their own money, even if it's not actually the case? 01:01:06.625 --> 01:01:09.385 Like, so that there's like a sentiment that they have apart 01:01:09.385 --> 01:01:10.615 in what they're receiving. 01:01:11.245 --> 01:01:15.205 And so, I said, look, we've got a, art, a, a museum sort of art 01:01:15.210 --> 01:01:17.445 gallery, a couple of different art galleries that are interested 01:01:17.625 --> 01:01:20.985 in, auctioning off your pictures. 01:01:21.375 --> 01:01:22.845 Cuz I know that you do really good art. 01:01:22.845 --> 01:01:25.245 You've been drawing with me and you do really good pictures. 01:01:25.250 --> 01:01:27.975 So I do wanna draw some pictures for me. 01:01:28.025 --> 01:01:34.895 And so they started producing this artwork that was just like wild, like, and I 01:01:34.895 --> 01:01:37.655 didn't ask them to draw about the tsunami. 01:01:37.655 --> 01:01:39.155 I just said, you can draw whatever you want. 01:01:39.155 --> 01:01:40.535 Like, it doesn't, doesn't matter. 01:01:40.635 --> 01:01:45.795 And they drew these like big black waves with like teeth coming out of them and 01:01:45.795 --> 01:01:50.760 like bodies floating on top of the water and like, People hanging off trees and 01:01:50.760 --> 01:01:54.570 like, basically like whatever was in their subconscious, these little kids 01:01:54.570 --> 01:01:58.230 that were just like la la la would come out with these like dark pictures of 01:01:58.230 --> 01:02:03.000 like death and destruction and like metaphorical representations of the wave. 01:02:03.000 --> 01:02:03.840 And I was like, oh, wow. 01:02:03.840 --> 01:02:04.320 That's lovely. 01:02:04.380 --> 01:02:05.160 That's lovely. 01:02:05.160 --> 01:02:05.580 Thank you. 01:02:06.400 --> 01:02:08.850 Just be like, oh, like where am I gonna take this? 01:02:08.850 --> 01:02:10.800 Like it was, it was, it was a thing. 01:02:10.880 --> 01:02:13.190 And so I collected all of their artwork and I said, thank you. 01:02:13.190 --> 01:02:14.120 We're gonna take it. 01:02:14.120 --> 01:02:16.720 And there, there's people, you know, in places that might be able to help 01:02:16.720 --> 01:02:19.450 us right now that are gonna auction off your work and then we're gonna 01:02:19.450 --> 01:02:22.230 come back and, and, and help you. 01:02:22.230 --> 01:02:23.640 And that's kind of, and that's kind of what we did. 01:02:23.850 --> 01:02:26.700 And we also had prints and things that we made from there. 01:02:26.700 --> 01:02:29.130 And we were just hard out fundraising when we got home. 01:02:29.130 --> 01:02:32.700 And then we went back directly with the money in our bank accounts 01:02:32.700 --> 01:02:35.940 and just worked as nobodies. 01:02:35.970 --> 01:02:38.550 But already knew kind of the ins and outs of what was needed 01:02:38.550 --> 01:02:39.750 and, and where to put the money. 01:02:39.755 --> 01:02:42.880 So we just picked a few, we picked a village basically, and 01:02:43.170 --> 01:02:46.890 we picked families that we thought we could most influence and help. 01:02:46.970 --> 01:02:50.100 And, and then we just, did what we could there. 01:02:50.340 --> 01:02:50.580 Yeah. 01:02:51.180 --> 01:02:52.860 Rupert Isaacson: How didn't you keep doing that and what 01:02:52.860 --> 01:02:53.940 happened to the yoga in between? 01:02:54.970 --> 01:02:58.420 Jane Pike: Yoga, I was just practicing myself, but I wasn't, that, that was kind 01:02:58.420 --> 01:03:00.040 of the core of my work was being there. 01:03:00.040 --> 01:03:03.550 I mean, you can live very, very simply in places like that on next to nothing. 01:03:03.550 --> 01:03:03.910 Rupert Isaacson: So. 01:03:04.330 --> 01:03:04.690 Right. 01:03:04.690 --> 01:03:07.720 So you're doing this and you're helping rebuild communities there. 01:03:07.980 --> 01:03:08.400 Mm-hmm. 01:03:08.455 --> 01:03:10.620 With money that you've raised, directly. 01:03:11.400 --> 01:03:12.600 What takes you away from that? 01:03:14.610 --> 01:03:19.650 Jane Pike: It came to a natural conclusion, I think, where you realize 01:03:19.650 --> 01:03:24.900 the end of your capacity, well, a, you run out of money and b you 01:03:24.905 --> 01:03:26.640 get to the end of your usefulness. 01:03:26.670 --> 01:03:30.510 I think there's like a natural evolution of chapters that people go through in 01:03:30.570 --> 01:03:34.740 those experiences where you realize like, now something bigger needs to happen. 01:03:35.100 --> 01:03:40.320 And also just for myself, I had started to get to that place where I was like, 01:03:41.070 --> 01:03:48.120 I, I have to make a decision about, I have to be a grown up basically. 01:03:48.170 --> 01:03:54.800 Like what's, what can I, I I wanted to have roots a little bit. 01:03:54.805 --> 01:03:57.080 Like I wanted to, to find a place where I could. 01:03:57.085 --> 01:03:58.490 You've been traveling for a while by now? 01:03:58.490 --> 01:03:58.700 Yeah. 01:03:58.820 --> 01:03:59.180 Yeah. 01:03:59.180 --> 01:04:00.710 I'd been traveling for a long time. 01:04:00.740 --> 01:04:01.130 Yeah. 01:04:01.490 --> 01:04:01.790 Yeah. 01:04:01.790 --> 01:04:03.990 And a lot of it with a sort of lost feeling inside. 01:04:04.650 --> 01:04:08.130 And so I was like, I think I'm gonna go back to New Zealand and 01:04:08.240 --> 01:04:09.140 and I'm just gonna land there. 01:04:09.290 --> 01:04:14.310 The landscape always felt really good to me there or here, and I never, you 01:04:14.310 --> 01:04:18.180 know, there's aspects of Australia, which are always gonna be a part of 01:04:18.185 --> 01:04:21.121 me, which actually has to do with the landscape as well, and smells and 01:04:21.270 --> 01:04:23.070 animals and those sorts of things. 01:04:23.075 --> 01:04:25.520 But I never really, wanted to stay. 01:04:26.105 --> 01:04:28.175 I knew that wasn't the place that I was gonna stay. 01:04:28.205 --> 01:04:32.585 And I think actually, you know, I have a nomadic tendency anyway that perhaps I 01:04:32.585 --> 01:04:34.265 struggled to reconcile for a long time. 01:04:34.270 --> 01:04:35.465 But yeah. 01:04:36.615 --> 01:04:36.835 So 01:04:37.105 --> 01:04:39.245 Rupert Isaacson: back, so you, you end up back in New Zealand. 01:04:39.815 --> 01:04:40.145 Yeah. 01:04:40.575 --> 01:04:46.605 You've, you've followed healing, you've followed, yeah. 01:04:47.255 --> 01:04:52.535 You've become, you've achieved a certain mastery in a healing form of yoga. 01:04:52.535 --> 01:04:59.215 You've then taken that healing into social healing with advocacy and, rebuilding 01:04:59.220 --> 01:05:01.735 of communities up to the tsunami. 01:05:02.845 --> 01:05:04.205 And this is all pretty significant work. 01:05:04.865 --> 01:05:12.055 And then you arrive as Jane Pike again in New Zealand. 01:05:14.425 --> 01:05:15.565 What do you do then? 01:05:17.545 --> 01:05:21.145 Jane Pike: at first I was writing, at first I was writing, I, 01:05:21.175 --> 01:05:23.155 well, I had two things going on. 01:05:23.695 --> 01:05:27.715 I was just working in a shop, like just to have money. 01:05:28.135 --> 01:05:32.070 And, the shop that was, it was a retail shop selling like 01:05:32.520 --> 01:05:34.830 different clothes and other things. 01:05:34.830 --> 01:05:37.020 And so I was sitting there and 01:05:37.320 --> 01:05:38.940 Rupert Isaacson: Did that feel a little surreal after? 01:05:39.690 --> 01:05:39.980 Yeah, 01:05:40.050 --> 01:05:41.190 Jane Pike: it was very surreal. 01:05:41.190 --> 01:05:42.600 It was very, very surreal. 01:05:43.560 --> 01:05:48.750 But it was kind of welcome at the same time because I, I 01:05:48.750 --> 01:05:52.305 just, Was I needed to regroup. 01:05:52.305 --> 01:05:54.045 Like to put stable, right? 01:05:54.105 --> 01:05:54.675 Yes. 01:05:54.795 --> 01:05:55.125 Yeah. 01:05:55.215 --> 01:05:55.575 Yeah. 01:05:55.575 --> 01:05:56.445 It had been a lot. 01:05:56.445 --> 01:06:00.875 And, and so the, it was something where I got like a regular amount of income 01:06:00.875 --> 01:06:05.225 that was like very, very little and, but it was enough to kind of like pay 01:06:05.225 --> 01:06:07.356 rent and eat and do all the things. 01:06:07.495 --> 01:06:13.145 And then I started to, to write, because at that point, I wanted to write a book. 01:06:13.365 --> 01:06:19.755 And also I, it sounds like I was just dropping things in, but I'm not quite 01:06:19.755 --> 01:06:21.045 sure how they, how they happened. 01:06:21.050 --> 01:06:24.615 I did have a column, I had like a column in a couple of newspapers at one point 01:06:24.615 --> 01:06:28.195 in time, that I was writing for, and I'd managed to kind of whe on my way in there. 01:06:28.325 --> 01:06:28.955 So you arrived back, 01:06:29.465 --> 01:06:30.545 Rupert Isaacson: started freelancing a bit? 01:06:31.085 --> 01:06:31.625 Yes. 01:06:31.625 --> 01:06:32.045 Yeah. 01:06:32.050 --> 01:06:32.065 Yeah. 01:06:32.225 --> 01:06:34.535 Had you been dabbling and writing through this whole time? 01:06:34.535 --> 01:06:36.815 Like, I just pitched myself. 01:06:37.025 --> 01:06:37.415 Oh, really? 01:06:37.485 --> 01:06:39.365 But you had, you always sort of wanted to write? 01:06:40.235 --> 01:06:43.685 Jane Pike: I always considered, I always loved writing. 01:06:43.715 --> 01:06:44.015 Yeah. 01:06:44.015 --> 01:06:46.355 Words were always something that I loved doing. 01:06:46.355 --> 01:06:50.375 And so I thought, initially I wanted to write a children's book, but I, 01:06:50.465 --> 01:06:52.235 I don't know, I just, I always rose. 01:06:52.325 --> 01:06:55.415 So that seemed like, I mean, that's where the journalism came from, right? 01:06:55.415 --> 01:06:55.865 Like that's where, 01:06:55.865 --> 01:06:57.335 Rupert Isaacson: and what would you, writing, you writing what, what, what 01:06:57.335 --> 01:06:58.925 columns are you writing for these papers? 01:06:59.675 --> 01:07:00.965 Stuff from what you've been doing. 01:07:01.355 --> 01:07:06.635 Jane Pike: Yeah, so at one point I won a competition, and it was. 01:07:08.060 --> 01:07:10.460 And then afterwards I said, oh, actually we kind of like your work. 01:07:10.460 --> 01:07:11.510 Would you come 01:07:11.515 --> 01:07:12.350 Rupert Isaacson: on as a regular? 01:07:12.350 --> 01:07:16.230 We've had like, good responses to the work and it was, it was about, it was fashion. 01:07:16.230 --> 01:07:21.090 It was like a fashion, of course, it was after the human rights and I won a, I won 01:07:21.095 --> 01:07:26.330 a competition, to be like the reporter, if you like, over a fashion week. 01:07:26.440 --> 01:07:30.100 And so I did that and then that stuff came out of that. 01:07:30.100 --> 01:07:33.490 But it was such, I ended up quitting because it was such a, 01:07:33.490 --> 01:07:36.500 like wildly misogynistic, place. 01:07:36.500 --> 01:07:38.330 It was really stuck in the dark ages. 01:07:38.330 --> 01:07:41.541 That actually, that's probably one of my proudest moments where I like quit on 01:07:41.546 --> 01:07:46.550 principle of something and then later on, and they were really assholes about it. 01:07:46.550 --> 01:07:50.650 And then later on, they begged for me to come back and I got to say no again, 01:07:50.650 --> 01:07:54.760 which was like, you know, this beautiful moment in my life actually, you have a, 01:07:54.760 --> 01:07:56.570 a little plaque on the wall, so Yeah. 01:07:57.910 --> 01:07:58.810 No, to the misogynous. 01:07:59.240 --> 01:07:59.730 Totally. 01:08:00.200 --> 01:08:00.490 Yeah. 01:08:00.720 --> 01:08:01.010 Yeah. 01:08:01.200 --> 01:08:01.490 Okay. 01:08:01.495 --> 01:08:03.220 So now you've fallen into writing. 01:08:03.460 --> 01:08:06.700 Is it all fashion or do you start to go writing in retail? 01:08:06.760 --> 01:08:07.570 Yeah, that's right. 01:08:07.840 --> 01:08:08.980 Fashion and retail. 01:08:09.310 --> 01:08:14.021 It, so that was just literally for bill paying practices and 01:08:14.026 --> 01:08:17.880 then behind the scenes I was, playing with fiction writing. 01:08:18.510 --> 01:08:18.810 Yeah. 01:08:18.900 --> 01:08:23.771 And so the idea was that I was going to write my own thing, mm-hmm. 01:08:24.820 --> 01:08:25.540 And just. 01:08:26.080 --> 01:08:30.070 Be single and, and have enough money to get by so that I could do 01:08:30.070 --> 01:08:32.050 that and just be free basically. 01:08:32.210 --> 01:08:33.105 How long did that last? 01:08:34.045 --> 01:08:34.585 Not very long. 01:08:34.585 --> 01:08:36.565 I met my husbands fairly soon after that. 01:08:38.245 --> 01:08:44.185 So then how, how does it go from your, you're back from 01:08:44.190 --> 01:08:46.645 this significance adventure. 01:08:47.635 --> 01:08:47.925 Yeah. 01:08:47.935 --> 01:08:53.605 You, you've learned these skills, but now you appear to have abandoned them. 01:08:53.605 --> 01:08:56.245 You, you're, you've gone a whole new direction. 01:08:56.935 --> 01:09:01.565 You're writing now, you're doing bill paying fashion and retail stuff. 01:09:01.625 --> 01:09:06.245 You're, you're writing, how does, how do you go from that to running this 01:09:07.295 --> 01:09:16.295 really successful, interesting online equestrian and nervous system thing? 01:09:17.065 --> 01:09:17.355 Yeah. 01:09:18.395 --> 01:09:19.025 How does it happen? 01:09:19.075 --> 01:09:22.995 So being back in New Zealand, I, I did start to sort of play in the 01:09:22.995 --> 01:09:26.185 horse world again, although I didn't have my own horse to start with. 01:09:26.235 --> 01:09:30.585 And then when I met my husband, he, I was on the north island at that point. 01:09:30.585 --> 01:09:31.905 He was on the south island. 01:09:32.025 --> 01:09:36.335 And, I ended up moving down here and he, and we had some land together down here. 01:09:36.335 --> 01:09:39.595 And so, he said, do you wanna get a horse? 01:09:40.195 --> 01:09:45.445 And I said, I don't think you understand what that means. 01:09:46.180 --> 01:09:48.820 And he was like, oh, yes, so do, and I was like, no, no. 01:09:48.820 --> 01:09:54.190 Like if I ha if I have horses, I horse like, I'm like, I, I'm not a casual horse. 01:09:54.490 --> 01:09:58.241 I'm like, I, so it's either I'm in or I, and he is like, oh, no, no, no. 01:09:58.246 --> 01:09:59.340 And I'm like, no, no, no, no. 01:09:59.500 --> 01:10:01.810 I don't know that you, you really understand. 01:10:01.810 --> 01:10:04.480 And so clearly he didn't because we got a horse. 01:10:04.720 --> 01:10:07.300 And then that's led to me to where I am now. 01:10:08.340 --> 01:10:14.250 So, but it was, it was beautiful, you know, in that like, this is, I guess where 01:10:14.255 --> 01:10:16.410 all of the different seeds start to merge. 01:10:16.415 --> 01:10:22.900 And the initial idea for it was that, I thought, okay, there are 01:10:22.900 --> 01:10:27.470 a lot of people struggling with, physical things to do with writing. 01:10:27.470 --> 01:10:32.000 And, with my background in like therapeutic yoga and like body 01:10:32.005 --> 01:10:36.680 stuff, I, dabbled with starting to help people from that perspective. 01:10:37.580 --> 01:10:44.480 And then it became apparent to me through our conversations that a lot 01:10:44.480 --> 01:10:49.100 of what people were struggling with was like confidence and anxiety issues. 01:10:49.760 --> 01:10:57.020 And, and I had things to say about that, that were helpful to people, but 01:10:58.100 --> 01:11:03.380 they, I had never considered that to be something that would be like, it was so 01:11:03.380 --> 01:11:05.540 natural to me to talk about that stuff. 01:11:05.540 --> 01:11:06.500 And it was so. 01:11:06.915 --> 01:11:10.695 In me to talk about it, that it wasn't anything that I considered to be a skill. 01:11:10.835 --> 01:11:11.255 Mm-hmm. 01:11:11.625 --> 01:11:15.645 Until I recognize that, oh, maybe I do have something to say that people 01:11:15.645 --> 01:11:18.075 would, would like to hear about. 01:11:18.625 --> 01:11:23.275 And so what mainly started was I started a Facebook page, and this was kind of 01:11:23.545 --> 01:11:27.475 in the early days of Facebook where I just blogged like I wrote every day. 01:11:27.475 --> 01:11:31.255 And I blogged about the things that to do with the mind and emotions 01:11:31.255 --> 01:11:34.165 and the body from the perspective of all the things that I've been 01:11:34.165 --> 01:11:35.515 studying and learning about. 01:11:35.515 --> 01:11:37.255 And people were really interested in it. 01:11:37.355 --> 01:11:39.335 like I started to have a really solid following. 01:11:39.340 --> 01:11:41.135 I never sold anything for like years. 01:11:41.685 --> 01:11:45.015 I literally just wrote and put lots of free stuff out there. 01:11:45.015 --> 01:11:46.185 I just shared what I knew. 01:11:46.495 --> 01:11:50.035 And I, and I started to get a, a bit of a following off the back of that. 01:11:50.145 --> 01:11:55.395 And I'd always studied, like, it was in the meantime I was studying like loads 01:11:55.400 --> 01:11:59.985 of different, like, mental skills and, and you know, like I've studied, I've 01:11:59.985 --> 01:12:05.175 done masters in hypnotherapy and like, and like loads, loads of different 01:12:05.175 --> 01:12:08.615 things, different psycho psychology studies and, Lots of different things 01:12:08.615 --> 01:12:10.025 kind of running in the background. 01:12:10.025 --> 01:12:14.225 I actually started another university course in violence and trauma that 01:12:14.225 --> 01:12:17.885 when I got back from, the tsunami, how to cause it or how to recover 01:12:17.885 --> 01:12:19.715 from it, how to recover from it. 01:12:19.715 --> 01:12:23.610 But then I realized that, actually just at the time, that is something 01:12:23.615 --> 01:12:25.291 that I'd wished I'd continued on with. 01:12:25.310 --> 01:12:30.390 But being in the position I was at the time, I was one of the few people that was 01:12:30.390 --> 01:12:33.780 sort of working full-time and trying to study full-time and I just couldn't do it. 01:12:33.990 --> 01:12:39.010 I had no support from outside, so it was like I just, I can't actually, live and, 01:12:39.010 --> 01:12:41.710 and eat and, and do this at the same time. 01:12:41.710 --> 01:12:43.361 So that, that fell away at that point. 01:12:43.560 --> 01:12:46.890 And it really did evolve from there when, when I had my first 01:12:46.890 --> 01:12:49.920 child, Flynn, so he's 12 this year. 01:12:50.320 --> 01:12:57.430 That was kind of the, the seed of like, like I think part of partially it was the 01:12:57.430 --> 01:13:04.150 seed of frustration that bore the actual business in its form that it is now in 01:13:04.150 --> 01:13:07.750 terms of like, I've lost my autonomy. 01:13:07.870 --> 01:13:13.390 You know, my partner is working really, really long hours and is way a lot, and 01:13:13.395 --> 01:13:18.611 I'm completely reliant on other people to look after my baby if I wanna do 01:13:18.700 --> 01:13:20.800 anything that's like separate to me. 01:13:20.800 --> 01:13:26.020 So what can I do that will like, Feed this sort of intellectual energy that I have 01:13:26.080 --> 01:13:29.530 and creating Just by now, you're living in a remote part of the south island? 01:13:29.620 --> 01:13:29.830 Yes. 01:13:29.870 --> 01:13:30.150 Yeah. 01:13:30.220 --> 01:13:30.510 Okay. 01:13:30.640 --> 01:13:31.090 Yeah. 01:13:31.270 --> 01:13:34.560 And, having gone from this completely cosmopolitan life, now you are Yes. 01:13:34.900 --> 01:13:35.670 Yeah, yeah. 01:13:35.700 --> 01:13:36.150 Down there. 01:13:36.820 --> 01:13:37.110 Yeah. 01:13:37.200 --> 01:13:39.260 In but isolated. 01:13:39.330 --> 01:13:39.620 Yeah. 01:13:39.970 --> 01:13:41.180 And so that's how it started. 01:13:41.380 --> 01:13:46.870 I, I started putting together like little packages for, for well writing 01:13:46.870 --> 01:13:50.650 initially, like continuing on with the blog that I'd started and then 01:13:50.650 --> 01:13:52.090 putting together little packages. 01:13:52.090 --> 01:14:00.010 And, at that stage, like anything internet wise was a very new endeavor. 01:14:00.015 --> 01:14:04.840 Like now memberships and stuff like that are so common that everyone 01:14:04.845 --> 01:14:06.580 has a membership at that point. 01:14:06.580 --> 01:14:09.670 I remember talking to a software person, him not even knowing 01:14:09.675 --> 01:14:10.450 what I was talking about. 01:14:10.450 --> 01:14:11.410 He's like, oh, that's not a thing. 01:14:11.440 --> 01:14:12.070 You can't do that. 01:14:12.070 --> 01:14:14.770 It'll be, that would be like 20 million to like, create that. 01:14:14.770 --> 01:14:16.030 And I was like, oh, I have no money. 01:14:16.030 --> 01:14:16.510 Excellent. 01:14:16.700 --> 01:14:19.255 So, so everything started with zero money. 01:14:19.255 --> 01:14:20.605 Like I had no, no money. 01:14:20.605 --> 01:14:21.775 I had to do it all myself. 01:14:21.775 --> 01:14:23.995 If I wanted to figure it out, I needed to learn it and, or it 01:14:23.995 --> 01:14:27.475 needed to cost like only $5 and it was basically like my budget. 01:14:27.895 --> 01:14:31.885 And so I did, yeah, I'm, I'm sort of studying in the 01:14:31.885 --> 01:14:32.606 background all the way through. 01:14:32.815 --> 01:14:36.970 I'm studying to get like a small amount of people to the point where, The 01:14:36.970 --> 01:14:39.730 first thing I offered was a bootcamp. 01:14:39.760 --> 01:14:44.440 I called it a bootcamp and it went for six months and I gave people content 01:14:44.440 --> 01:14:46.060 like at the start of each month. 01:14:46.060 --> 01:14:49.600 That was, that was specifically focusing on like confidence type things. 01:14:49.900 --> 01:14:53.800 And I remember thinking, oh my God, I am like, this is so much money. 01:14:53.800 --> 01:14:56.290 I think I charged them like a hundred dollars each, and there 01:14:56.290 --> 01:14:59.260 was maybe 15 people in it. 01:14:59.260 --> 01:15:02.830 And I was like, this, I've made it like this is it. 01:15:02.830 --> 01:15:05.590 I've got like something coming in that just felt like 01:15:05.590 --> 01:15:07.180 this phenomenal achievement. 01:15:07.630 --> 01:15:12.580 And there was another really kind of cataclysmic moment where, all the 01:15:12.840 --> 01:15:14.460 way through I've had to teach myself. 01:15:14.460 --> 01:15:17.790 So I've always been doing like business courses or I'd look for someone that 01:15:17.795 --> 01:15:21.670 was doing something similar, in terms of a format that I thought was good, even 01:15:21.670 --> 01:15:23.440 if it was a completely unrelated topic. 01:15:23.440 --> 01:15:25.930 And I just studied their thing to like look at their format. 01:15:26.400 --> 01:15:31.950 And so at one point I signed up for this business course and it was $800. 01:15:32.010 --> 01:15:36.870 It was 800 New Zealand dollars, which for me was like, this is outrageous. 01:15:36.875 --> 01:15:38.040 Like, and I didn't tell anyone. 01:15:38.045 --> 01:15:38.880 I didn't tell my husband. 01:15:38.880 --> 01:15:42.300 I just put it on the credit card, put it on my credit card, and I was like, okay, 01:15:42.300 --> 01:15:43.500 I'm gonna put it on the credit card. 01:15:43.500 --> 01:15:48.530 And then, and because I've done this so deceitfully, I have to 01:15:48.530 --> 01:15:50.030 make it back by the end of it. 01:15:50.030 --> 01:15:51.950 Like I have to make it back like that. 01:15:51.950 --> 01:15:53.660 There's no choice about that. 01:15:54.080 --> 01:15:58.760 And so, within the six weeks I did, I did, I created two. 01:15:59.240 --> 01:16:02.765 Different courses off the back of that one, which was COMPETIT focused 01:16:02.765 --> 01:16:04.475 and one which was confidence focused. 01:16:04.895 --> 01:16:07.525 And then that kind of led me to the membership, just through 01:16:07.525 --> 01:16:10.435 realizing what different people needed at different moments. 01:16:10.435 --> 01:16:11.485 So yeah. 01:16:13.285 --> 01:16:19.135 Now, confident Rider and Joy Ride are these known things and, you've 01:16:19.135 --> 01:16:22.255 got a following all over the world. 01:16:22.975 --> 01:16:28.375 What would you say now it is that you do an offer, if you were to put it in your, 01:16:28.735 --> 01:16:35.395 not even the elevator pitch, but if you are, if you were to say more or less in 01:16:35.395 --> 01:16:43.615 a nutshell what it is you give people through this online, thing involving 01:16:43.615 --> 01:16:45.775 their nervous system now, what is it? 01:16:47.355 --> 01:16:53.085 So it's a movement based program and we are ultimately looking to 01:16:53.085 --> 01:16:54.625 create nervous system, adaptability. 01:16:54.765 --> 01:17:00.355 So we're interested in, getting people into a position and a place where if 01:17:00.355 --> 01:17:03.835 we, we think of it technically, their brain and body are responding accurately 01:17:03.835 --> 01:17:06.025 to what's going on in their life. 01:17:06.415 --> 01:17:09.295 And for lots of people, they're not responding accurately. 01:17:09.295 --> 01:17:12.715 They're either in Groundhog Day situations, they're finding themselves 01:17:13.015 --> 01:17:14.905 overreacting or underreacting. 01:17:15.245 --> 01:17:20.825 And that, That shows up in writing, that shows up in life, that shows up 01:17:20.855 --> 01:17:22.595 mentally, physically, and emotionally. 01:17:22.955 --> 01:17:26.795 And so, I look at biomechanics, but I look at it from a nervous system 01:17:26.795 --> 01:17:29.945 perspective, which is, which is quite a different lens to view it 01:17:30.035 --> 01:17:32.135 from than traditional biomechanics. 01:17:32.535 --> 01:17:36.560 We look at mindset and also, emotions within the template that 01:17:36.620 --> 01:17:38.720 the nervous system creates as well. 01:17:39.110 --> 01:17:44.220 But I think that there's a slightly different flavor, also to what I offered 01:17:44.220 --> 01:17:50.430 that perhaps I haven't been so vocal about in the beginning, in that, I'm, 01:17:50.430 --> 01:17:55.620 I'm really fascinated by the body and I have so much reverence and respect for 01:17:55.620 --> 01:18:01.300 science and, everything that it offers us and have, you know, gone deeply down that 01:18:01.305 --> 01:18:03.220 rabbit hole and will continue to myself. 01:18:03.880 --> 01:18:06.880 However, there also has to be room for the mystical and the magical. 01:18:07.450 --> 01:18:12.940 And I think that a lot of our conversations, while they're rooted 01:18:12.940 --> 01:18:18.800 in that scientific understanding, also allow space for, just what it means to 01:18:18.805 --> 01:18:21.950 be human and what it means to be, you know, a part of the world that we're 01:18:21.950 --> 01:18:23.270 in and the landscape that we're in. 01:18:23.270 --> 01:18:28.050 And, and to recognize that there is something bigger than us at play. 01:18:28.050 --> 01:18:30.530 So, you know, it's, it's all of those things. 01:18:30.770 --> 01:18:31.400 Does that make sense? 01:18:31.400 --> 01:18:35.270 This, this sounds like it goes far beyond helping people out with 01:18:35.270 --> 01:18:36.710 their confidence on horseback. 01:18:37.445 --> 01:18:42.725 Yeah, the horses are such a gift in that they're, well firstly they give people 01:18:42.725 --> 01:18:49.075 a reason to look at things that might not be, comfortable, acceptable, quote 01:18:49.075 --> 01:18:51.775 unquote, or okay to look at without them. 01:18:51.835 --> 01:18:57.015 So for instance, you know, people may well recognize that they struggle 01:18:57.015 --> 01:19:00.885 with anxiety generally, or they're feeling like, gosh, is this kind of 01:19:00.885 --> 01:19:03.585 it as far as their life is concerned? 01:19:03.925 --> 01:19:08.065 But they don't give themselves permission to really look at those 01:19:08.065 --> 01:19:13.495 things in isolation or they wouldn't go to someone to talk about them 01:19:13.495 --> 01:19:16.945 because that would be just kind of not something that they would ever do. 01:19:17.275 --> 01:19:21.925 But if it relates to their riding or they can use their horse as like the 01:19:21.925 --> 01:19:26.455 thing outside of themselves, which is the conversation, Kickstarter, then it 01:19:26.545 --> 01:19:31.615 takes the pressure off them, it takes the spotlight off them, and it just provides 01:19:31.735 --> 01:19:36.465 a way in to have bigger conversations that, that just feel more possible. 01:19:36.935 --> 01:19:37.705 What would you say? 01:19:37.705 --> 01:19:39.135 That's what my experience has been. 01:19:39.135 --> 01:19:39.435 Yeah. 01:19:39.735 --> 01:19:46.425 What would you say is the prevalent thing about the nervous system in 01:19:46.425 --> 01:19:50.625 the brain that you find yourself now helping people with the most? 01:19:51.895 --> 01:19:56.005 So I think that one of the gifts of the. 01:19:57.055 --> 01:20:01.765 The time that we're in is that this nervous system awareness, 01:20:02.315 --> 01:20:04.145 is becoming much more mainstream. 01:20:04.235 --> 01:20:08.346 That it is, it's not uncommon, especially in the world that you are moving in and 01:20:08.351 --> 01:20:12.545 the world that I move in for people to have some kind of understanding about 01:20:12.545 --> 01:20:16.925 the nervous system, whereas that used to be like 10 or 20 years ago, like 01:20:16.925 --> 01:20:19.475 such a foreign idea to talk about. 01:20:19.475 --> 01:20:21.995 And I think that just in science in general, it's really like 01:20:21.995 --> 01:20:25.325 there's been huge leaps and, and evolutions in understanding that. 01:20:25.330 --> 01:20:31.565 And so for me, what my work involves, which is not something that I see commonly 01:20:31.565 --> 01:20:35.945 talked about and or offered is this understanding, of the different motor 01:20:35.945 --> 01:20:39.575 reflex patterns that we move through when we're in the fight flight response. 01:20:39.905 --> 01:20:44.465 And so if we consider, as we go into our sympathetic system, there are 01:20:44.465 --> 01:20:49.295 these templates, if you like, that the body utilizers in order to fulfill the 01:20:49.295 --> 01:20:50.715 function of that nervous system state. 01:20:50.815 --> 01:20:53.435 So fight, flight, freeze. 01:20:53.435 --> 01:20:55.515 And there's a couple of different statements say just for those, 01:20:55.695 --> 01:20:58.275 for those people who are not, move, Nervous system people. 01:20:58.515 --> 01:21:01.185 The sympathetic nervous system is the fight, flight, freeze, 01:21:01.245 --> 01:21:02.265 fight, flight nervous system. 01:21:02.265 --> 01:21:03.075 Yeah, that's right. 01:21:03.135 --> 01:21:03.375 Yeah. 01:21:03.525 --> 01:21:03.825 Yeah. 01:21:03.875 --> 01:21:04.335 So go on. 01:21:04.335 --> 01:21:04.515 Yeah. 01:21:04.515 --> 01:21:08.445 So within, within the fight flight nervous system, there are these different, 01:21:08.505 --> 01:21:11.895 reflex patterns, which are essentially structural or movement patterns. 01:21:12.135 --> 01:21:16.695 That means that for any of us who move into a fight response for any of us 01:21:16.695 --> 01:21:21.045 that move into a flight response or a freeze response, there is a way that 01:21:21.045 --> 01:21:25.675 your body, moves itself a way that your body orients itself from the inside 01:21:25.675 --> 01:21:33.115 out, that is observable and, and, discernible in that like if, if RU or 01:21:33.115 --> 01:21:37.795 myself, whereas in a fight I can, I would be able to observe that by the 01:21:37.795 --> 01:21:39.325 way the structure of the body moves. 01:21:39.325 --> 01:21:41.795 So there's a template, that that creates. 01:21:41.795 --> 01:21:46.535 And so alongside that physical template, and again, it, it, we 01:21:46.540 --> 01:21:50.570 do that in order to maximize the purpose of that particular, state. 01:21:50.920 --> 01:21:55.690 So for fight, I'm really wanting to maximize my force for flea. 01:21:55.690 --> 01:21:59.110 I'm wanting to maximize my acceleration, and so the body orients itself in 01:21:59.110 --> 01:22:00.400 order to fulfill that function. 01:22:00.790 --> 01:22:09.045 And this has been such a revelation to me because a lot of, what we see 01:22:09.045 --> 01:22:15.175 as dysfunction disease, disharmony in the body is the body operating more 01:22:15.175 --> 01:22:16.585 often than not from one of these. 01:22:17.590 --> 01:22:20.020 Sympathetic patterns from one of these fight flight patterns. 01:22:20.410 --> 01:22:24.940 And the brain in and of itself, for a number of different reasons, has lost 01:22:24.940 --> 01:22:28.990 the capacity to move fluently between the different nervous system states, 01:22:28.990 --> 01:22:33.710 which is essentially, if I am, a human with adaptability and who isn't stuck 01:22:33.710 --> 01:22:38.660 on a particular channel, I'm able to flip in between any of the states, 01:22:38.660 --> 01:22:40.460 both fight, flight and parasympathetic. 01:22:40.460 --> 01:22:43.310 So parasympathetic is like just optimal mode functioning, sort 01:22:43.310 --> 01:22:46.970 of normal, everyday functioning, being okay, Bethany being okay. 01:22:47.150 --> 01:22:51.030 And the survival nervous system is really only, designed for me 01:22:51.030 --> 01:22:52.590 being under physiological threat. 01:22:53.050 --> 01:22:56.240 So, for most of us, hopefully, who aren't in a position where we're 01:22:56.240 --> 01:22:59.720 under physiological threat in the day-to-day, there is no reason for us 01:22:59.720 --> 01:23:01.490 to be in our sympathetic nervous system. 01:23:01.800 --> 01:23:04.440 But many of us are living there and that creates different, 01:23:04.540 --> 01:23:06.220 problems for us on every level. 01:23:06.240 --> 01:23:08.610 So would you say, would you say that, yeah. 01:23:08.740 --> 01:23:12.570 Would you say that the majority of people that you find that you're 01:23:12.570 --> 01:23:17.320 working with, despite the comfort of Western life, the physical comforts 01:23:17.320 --> 01:23:24.180 of Western life, are in fact for a multitude of reasons, basically living 01:23:24.180 --> 01:23:25.920 in their fight flight nervous systems? 01:23:25.925 --> 01:23:26.020 Yes. 01:23:26.850 --> 01:23:30.915 I would say that even when there is no elephant coming at them, Yes, exactly. 01:23:30.915 --> 01:23:31.215 Yeah. 01:23:31.215 --> 01:23:34.695 There's like a, you know, a, a meme that goes around saying, you know, 01:23:34.695 --> 01:23:38.325 I want my, my nervous system to my fight flight nervous system to kick 01:23:38.325 --> 01:23:41.295 on in response to the tiger not reading the email sort of thing. 01:23:41.300 --> 01:23:43.091 And it's like, it's, it's true, right? 01:23:43.390 --> 01:23:45.640 Like, I think Why do you think, why do you think we're, we're 01:23:45.640 --> 01:23:49.660 all living in this fight flight freeze when we're not in war zone? 01:23:51.270 --> 01:23:59.170 Because we have become 50 steps removed from our environment, we're no longer 01:24:00.190 --> 01:24:05.250 getting the amount of movement, novelty or sensory feedback that we would if we were 01:24:05.250 --> 01:24:07.600 part of a hunter gatherer type setting. 01:24:08.020 --> 01:24:11.470 And that starts to intimately affect how our nervous system 01:24:11.470 --> 01:24:12.570 is able to function and operate. 01:24:12.590 --> 01:24:16.210 So basically we're stressed because we're not living in the natural environment 01:24:16.210 --> 01:24:18.920 that our organism is programmed for. 01:24:19.030 --> 01:24:19.320 Yeah. 01:24:19.420 --> 01:24:25.150 It's what has happened now is that, meeting our life needs and meeting 01:24:25.150 --> 01:24:29.890 our survival needs is a cognitive choice rather than a physical reality. 01:24:30.280 --> 01:24:35.300 So if I was part of a, a living situation where I was required to 01:24:35.300 --> 01:24:39.770 be in the world, and that that meant that I had to move, so I had to look 01:24:39.775 --> 01:24:41.250 after the people in my community. 01:24:41.600 --> 01:24:45.800 I had to go out and search for my food, I had to tend to my shelter. 01:24:45.800 --> 01:24:50.870 I had to like be in my environment as part of that reciprocal economy. 01:24:51.200 --> 01:24:55.010 I'm always moving, I'm always my sensory system. 01:24:55.010 --> 01:24:57.800 My sensory nervous system is always getting stimulated. 01:24:58.070 --> 01:25:04.280 I'm always encountering novelty, which means that, my brain is always receiving 01:25:04.490 --> 01:25:06.670 information about my current reality. 01:25:07.470 --> 01:25:13.225 And now we're in a situation where movement has become a choice. 01:25:13.865 --> 01:25:18.305 And we are no longer required to be in the world, should we choose not to be. 01:25:18.605 --> 01:25:22.115 And so the amount, I mean, we could sit in our, sit in our rooms and order Uber each. 01:25:22.115 --> 01:25:22.625 Yes. 01:25:22.630 --> 01:25:22.785 Okay. 01:25:22.865 --> 01:25:23.915 Yes, absolutely. 01:25:23.915 --> 01:25:24.185 Yeah. 01:25:24.190 --> 01:25:25.745 So that's the example that I use. 01:25:25.745 --> 01:25:30.245 You know, like I can, I can be in this office, I can order food, I can 01:25:30.485 --> 01:25:32.285 ring someone to come and fix the roof. 01:25:32.315 --> 01:25:36.065 I can get on Facebook and I could essentially sit in my chair. 01:25:36.265 --> 01:25:38.695 Perhaps I wouldn't be thriving, but I could stay here for 01:25:38.700 --> 01:25:40.135 decades and still live. 01:25:40.445 --> 01:25:41.795 That's completely possible. 01:25:42.005 --> 01:25:45.305 And so now, if we think of it, do the lesson to that. 01:25:45.935 --> 01:25:46.355 Yeah. 01:25:46.445 --> 01:25:48.065 Well, the, the, it's, it's even more than that. 01:25:48.065 --> 01:25:53.655 It's like, if we use the example of a traumatic situation, if I go out and 01:25:53.655 --> 01:25:56.865 ride my horse or I just go out into the world and something happens to me that 01:25:56.865 --> 01:26:00.825 I register as upsetting to the point where I might label it as traumatic. 01:26:01.215 --> 01:26:05.745 If I sit in my office essentially, In order for that experience to 01:26:05.745 --> 01:26:09.525 have context in order for my brain to be able to contextualize it. 01:26:09.530 --> 01:26:11.745 As that happened yesterday, or that happened this morning, or that 01:26:11.745 --> 01:26:16.365 happened last year, I need to be constantly uploading new information. 01:26:16.485 --> 01:26:18.585 I need to be constantly in the world. 01:26:18.590 --> 01:26:21.655 My sensory system needs to be bringing in new information to my brain. 01:26:22.305 --> 01:26:27.435 So my brain is not prioritizing or sitting front and center that experience. 01:26:27.615 --> 01:26:30.135 It's because I'm, I'm required to be out there. 01:26:30.435 --> 01:26:33.765 And so when that happens, things get contextualized. 01:26:33.765 --> 01:26:36.585 It's like I had that kind of shitty experience with that happen last year. 01:26:36.945 --> 01:26:40.265 Now what happens is that we have this unpleasant event. 01:26:40.525 --> 01:26:43.965 We come and sit wherever it is, we are in our home and we don't go out, 01:26:43.965 --> 01:26:47.685 we don't engage our, our sensory system isn't getting stimulated. 01:26:47.685 --> 01:26:49.485 We're not moving in novel ways. 01:26:49.665 --> 01:26:52.815 And so it becomes the dominant process for the brain. 01:26:52.815 --> 01:26:56.055 It becomes the dominant pattern that isn't being challenged by 01:26:56.055 --> 01:26:57.385 any other information coming in. 01:26:57.975 --> 01:27:00.945 The, so basically the, the trauma doesn't get massaged out of us. 01:27:00.945 --> 01:27:01.935 We don't, we don't. 01:27:02.625 --> 01:27:02.985 We don't. 01:27:03.015 --> 01:27:03.735 Is that what you're saying? 01:27:03.735 --> 01:27:07.455 That, that, that this, I'm gonna go back to this novel movement thing. 01:27:07.455 --> 01:27:08.205 Cause it, yeah. 01:27:08.415 --> 01:27:09.705 It's a novel thing to hear. 01:27:09.825 --> 01:27:11.325 It's still a novel term to me. 01:27:11.325 --> 01:27:11.985 Novel movement. 01:27:11.985 --> 01:27:12.285 I think. 01:27:12.315 --> 01:27:14.385 I think listeners would like to have that explained to them. 01:27:14.445 --> 01:27:14.505 Jane Pike: Yeah. 01:27:14.845 --> 01:27:17.545 But basically these different form, are you saying that these different forms 01:27:17.545 --> 01:27:20.605 of movement that we would encounter in a natural situation where we've 01:27:20.605 --> 01:27:24.505 gotta walk or climb, we gotta swim, we gotta bump against the trees, 01:27:24.505 --> 01:27:26.365 we gotta dig, we gotta, whatever. 01:27:27.235 --> 01:27:33.985 Give us a certain input through the nervous system that assuages, 01:27:35.155 --> 01:27:38.665 quote unquote traumatic events and then leads us to resilience. 01:27:38.670 --> 01:27:42.985 And then if we don't have that, we kind of get stuck in those unpleasant experiences. 01:27:42.985 --> 01:27:44.846 Is that basically what you're driving? 01:27:45.235 --> 01:27:45.295 Yeah. 01:27:45.295 --> 01:27:47.695 Is, is it alright for me to give a little background to it? 01:27:47.700 --> 01:27:47.765 Please. 01:27:47.845 --> 01:27:51.025 I think it's, without it, it's a little more difficult to understand. 01:27:51.275 --> 01:27:55.265 If you think of it in very simplistic terms, the brain is always looking 01:27:55.265 --> 01:27:56.885 to answer the question, are we safe? 01:27:57.305 --> 01:28:00.605 That's the baseline of, of any type of conversation that the brain 01:28:00.605 --> 01:28:01.665 is having with the environment. 01:28:02.085 --> 01:28:07.175 And where relational creatures, meaning we're always looking to assess what it 01:28:07.175 --> 01:28:11.635 is, how it is we fit in this situation, in any situation that we come into. 01:28:12.055 --> 01:28:15.325 So the way that we do that is through sensory information. 01:28:15.325 --> 01:28:17.215 Sensory information comes into the brain. 01:28:17.215 --> 01:28:20.065 We have 19 different sensors that we're constantly feeling into the 01:28:20.065 --> 01:28:23.785 environment with, and it's coming into this place in our brain called 01:28:23.785 --> 01:28:25.405 the reticular activating system. 01:28:25.705 --> 01:28:28.645 And the reticular activating system is using that information to 01:28:28.645 --> 01:28:29.995 answer that question, are we safe? 01:28:30.415 --> 01:28:33.025 The answer is either yes, no, or maybe right? 01:28:33.235 --> 01:28:38.495 So if it's yes, then what gets sent out is a motor pattern, which 01:28:38.725 --> 01:28:39.815 is a movement pattern, right? 01:28:40.225 --> 01:28:43.255 So sensory in motor pattern out movement, pattern out. 01:28:43.945 --> 01:28:46.735 That motor pattern can either be a parasympathetic pattern 01:28:46.735 --> 01:28:47.845 or a sympathetic pattern. 01:28:47.905 --> 01:28:49.585 It's either one of those two things. 01:28:50.065 --> 01:28:54.805 If the brain says, yes, you are safe, then we create a new pattern that is 01:28:54.805 --> 01:28:57.685 based on matching the circumstance. 01:28:57.955 --> 01:29:02.750 So I create a whole new response based on what it is that I'm in, relationship with. 01:29:03.360 --> 01:29:06.840 And that's something I haven't experienced before because it's not a reflex, right? 01:29:06.840 --> 01:29:08.970 It's a new pattern that the brain creates. 01:29:09.570 --> 01:29:14.970 When I am, when the answer is no, then the brain chooses which of these 01:29:14.970 --> 01:29:16.410 reflex states are we gonna choose? 01:29:16.410 --> 01:29:17.460 Are we gonna put 'em in fight? 01:29:17.460 --> 01:29:18.570 Are we gonna put 'em in flight? 01:29:18.630 --> 01:29:20.730 Are we gonna put 'em in freeze or collapse? 01:29:20.735 --> 01:29:22.680 Those, that's the template that it chooses. 01:29:23.070 --> 01:29:26.910 If it's maybe the brain always errs on the side of caution. 01:29:26.910 --> 01:29:31.500 And so we go into the sympathetic system, right, just as a, just in case policy. 01:29:32.505 --> 01:29:33.195 So that's it. 01:29:33.195 --> 01:29:36.015 Sensory information comes in, a movement pattern gets set out. 01:29:36.315 --> 01:29:39.105 The movement pattern is either parasympathetic or sympathetic. 01:29:39.345 --> 01:29:40.965 That's, that's the sort of the basis of it. 01:29:41.355 --> 01:29:44.895 So in order for our sensory system to stay alive and remembering the 01:29:44.895 --> 01:29:47.925 sensory system is what the brain needs to make accurate decisions 01:29:47.925 --> 01:29:49.335 about the situation that it's in. 01:29:49.755 --> 01:29:52.635 In order for the sensory system to be alive, it needs to be constantly 01:29:52.635 --> 01:29:56.895 stimulated and it gets constantly stimulated through interactions 01:29:56.895 --> 01:29:59.415 with different experiences that capture our attention. 01:29:59.985 --> 01:30:02.025 We're always looking to be efficient. 01:30:02.055 --> 01:30:05.445 So basically the brains, as soon as something is no longer novel, 01:30:05.445 --> 01:30:06.915 it creates a pattern for it. 01:30:06.915 --> 01:30:09.585 It creates an understanding for it, so it doesn't constantly have to 01:30:09.590 --> 01:30:11.265 process what it is that's going on. 01:30:11.685 --> 01:30:14.955 And so novelty is what keeps our sensory nervous system alive. 01:30:15.315 --> 01:30:18.465 Now, if you're constantly engaging in your environment, it's constantly 01:30:18.465 --> 01:30:20.625 novel because it's constantly changing. 01:30:20.955 --> 01:30:22.845 If you're constantly putting change, the wind changes, 01:30:22.845 --> 01:30:23.815 the ground underfoot changes. 01:30:23.820 --> 01:30:23.895 Yeah. 01:30:23.900 --> 01:30:26.806 Nothing is ever the same, even if you're treading the same path every day. 01:30:26.915 --> 01:30:27.435 Got it. 01:30:27.490 --> 01:30:29.120 It could be hard depending if it's right. 01:30:29.120 --> 01:30:30.140 Yeah, exactly. 01:30:30.140 --> 01:30:33.470 And so, yeah, and, and if you put your awareness on different parts 01:30:33.470 --> 01:30:37.280 of your body as you go through the world as well, that that's changing. 01:30:37.280 --> 01:30:39.380 Like, because your body's in constant change. 01:30:39.830 --> 01:30:45.750 And so what we have in traditional societies is a setup where, where, 01:30:45.770 --> 01:30:49.850 where, where our nervous system is supported for optimal function. 01:30:50.350 --> 01:30:57.310 And so when we get into modern day living, what we have now is if you ask any adult 01:30:57.310 --> 01:30:59.110 that, you know, I will safely say this. 01:31:00.025 --> 01:31:05.545 The majority of them, I would say perhaps 10% will fall outside this window, will 01:31:05.545 --> 01:31:09.415 be able to tell you exactly what they do and how they do it over a given week. 01:31:09.475 --> 01:31:12.205 Like, they'll get up on Monday and maybe they'll go to the gym and then they'll 01:31:12.210 --> 01:31:15.955 go to go to work, and then they'll eat this lunch, and then they'll come home. 01:31:15.985 --> 01:31:18.485 They'll be like a predictable set of ways that they move their body. 01:31:19.185 --> 01:31:23.215 And most of the time they'll do that with headphones on, or they'll do 01:31:23.215 --> 01:31:24.955 that with some form of distraction. 01:31:25.045 --> 01:31:27.475 So they're not even really present with what it is that they're 01:31:27.475 --> 01:31:28.885 doing in their environment. 01:31:29.215 --> 01:31:32.155 And so the brain has already recognized this is no longer 01:31:32.155 --> 01:31:35.245 novel, like there's no new sensory information coming in through this. 01:31:35.665 --> 01:31:39.505 And so we get stuck in these sort of set patterns which start to become 01:31:39.505 --> 01:31:43.195 predictable to the brain, and it's not being stimulated in any way. 01:31:43.495 --> 01:31:47.605 And then as well, because of modern living, what happens as we enter 01:31:47.610 --> 01:31:50.455 our fight flight nervous system is the sensory system gets turned off. 01:31:50.995 --> 01:31:53.415 And so, and the reason for that is protective. 01:31:53.475 --> 01:31:56.955 So if someone punches me in the face, I don't wanna feel all the 01:31:56.955 --> 01:32:00.285 feelings because that limits my ability to respond in the moment. 01:32:00.615 --> 01:32:04.455 and if I'm in conservation of energy mode, for instance, which is like 01:32:04.455 --> 01:32:07.515 collapse essentially, it's sort of hibernation mode for humans. 01:32:07.565 --> 01:32:08.550 Or it's essential MAMs. 01:32:08.560 --> 01:32:09.210 Yeah, yeah. 01:32:09.270 --> 01:32:10.160 But you Yeah, exactly. 01:32:10.220 --> 01:32:13.050 You just, like, you, your, your sensory system is not, 01:32:13.330 --> 01:32:14.530 what's feeling into the world. 01:32:14.530 --> 01:32:17.260 You're, you are essentially in, in literally introverted 01:32:17.260 --> 01:32:18.310 at that moment in time. 01:32:18.940 --> 01:32:20.690 And so, By design. 01:32:20.690 --> 01:32:23.420 We're not supposed to live in our sensory, our sympathetic 01:32:23.540 --> 01:32:24.530 or fight flight nervous system. 01:32:24.530 --> 01:32:26.750 We're supposed to be like flicking in and out of it. 01:32:27.020 --> 01:32:32.120 But now we have a lifestyle set up where people are in their, in their sympathetic 01:32:32.120 --> 01:32:35.910 nervous system and not coming out, they're not being stimulated to come out of it. 01:32:35.910 --> 01:32:37.681 So the sensory system is getting switched off. 01:32:38.370 --> 01:32:40.770 Rupert Isaacson: The brain pressure no longer has, has anxiety that's 01:32:41.770 --> 01:32:43.440 no longer has fresh information. 01:32:43.440 --> 01:32:46.320 Jane Pike: And so it's just always ing on the side of caution and 01:32:46.320 --> 01:32:48.180 staying in the, in the reflex system. 01:32:48.180 --> 01:32:50.370 And so now we have all of these pathologies and all 01:32:50.370 --> 01:32:51.690 of these behaviors that are, 01:32:52.060 --> 01:32:55.125 Rupert Isaacson: so what do you do, with your web-based business that helps people 01:32:55.125 --> 01:33:01.635 to bust out of this and get back to a more natural way of moving that can then 01:33:01.635 --> 01:33:03.975 bring them back to their parasympathetic. 01:33:04.430 --> 01:33:05.810 Can you explain, how, how you help? 01:33:05.880 --> 01:33:06.120 Jane Pike: Yeah. 01:33:06.120 --> 01:33:09.180 So it's, it's, it's not even bringing back to parasympathetic, it's just 01:33:09.180 --> 01:33:11.130 creating that accurate responsiveness. 01:33:11.130 --> 01:33:12.690 So not nothing is good or bad. 01:33:12.690 --> 01:33:16.200 It's just like if you are supposed to be there, then you wanna be there. 01:33:16.200 --> 01:33:17.670 And if you're not, you're not, sort of thing. 01:33:17.940 --> 01:33:22.290 But we talk about being dominantly parasympathetic, which for me, in 01:33:22.530 --> 01:33:26.250 my life situation, for instance, I'm not under physiological threat, 01:33:26.670 --> 01:33:28.560 so there's no need for me to be, 01:33:28.590 --> 01:33:30.655 except for every time you climb in the saddle, you just, kid 01:33:30.655 --> 01:33:32.275 yourself that you're not Yeah, yeah. 01:33:32.275 --> 01:33:32.515 True. 01:33:32.515 --> 01:33:35.965 But, but, you know, more than 50% of the time I would wanna be 01:33:35.965 --> 01:33:37.525 operating out of the parasympathetic. 01:33:37.615 --> 01:33:39.855 That might be different if I'm on the front line in Afghanistan than 01:33:39.855 --> 01:33:43.165 it would be more appropriate for me to be operating for my sympathetic, 01:33:43.195 --> 01:33:44.515 more than 50% of the time. 01:33:44.795 --> 01:33:51.235 But I use movement-based, processes and a, a practice that really 01:33:51.265 --> 01:33:52.885 activates the sensory system. 01:33:52.885 --> 01:33:58.145 So it's all about reengaging the sensory nerves, habituating the sensory nerves 01:33:58.375 --> 01:34:00.145 to send signals to the brain again. 01:34:00.455 --> 01:34:04.075 and when that happens, you start to release some of the patterns 01:34:04.075 --> 01:34:07.045 that have been held there in over different periods of time. 01:34:07.050 --> 01:34:11.905 And so essentially what what I'm working with is a, a brain mapping 01:34:11.905 --> 01:34:16.755 or a body mapping process, where we're updating the brain map. 01:34:16.785 --> 01:34:20.735 Cuz your brain map gets distorted when you are, In sympathetic 01:34:20.735 --> 01:34:21.635 for a long period of time. 01:34:21.935 --> 01:34:25.525 I've probably complicated things now by introducing that, but basically just using 01:34:25.525 --> 01:34:27.595 movement to activate the sensory system. 01:34:27.695 --> 01:34:29.885 Rupert Isaacson: and how do you show, and what movements do you show people? 01:34:29.885 --> 01:34:32.375 Are you falling back in your yoga or are you doing other things 01:34:32.555 --> 01:34:34.055 and how are you all these things? 01:34:34.055 --> 01:34:35.795 Jane Pike: I don't do any yoga anymore. 01:34:36.065 --> 01:34:36.905 I don't do any yoga. 01:34:37.265 --> 01:34:38.765 I don't do any breath work anymore. 01:34:38.765 --> 01:34:41.595 I've completely, changed my tag and, 01:34:41.595 --> 01:34:44.085 Rupert Isaacson: and so I'm, if I'm, if I'm a member on this website, 01:34:44.425 --> 01:34:46.515 what, what are you showing me and how 01:34:47.445 --> 01:34:49.665 Jane Pike: Yeah, so there are a few different things. 01:34:49.775 --> 01:34:53.465 the movement practices themselves focus, the focus on specific body parts. 01:34:53.845 --> 01:34:56.705 So we'll go through like, what's some examples? 01:34:56.705 --> 01:35:00.035 So last week we did like the Tali bone, which is part of the ankle, and we'll 01:35:00.035 --> 01:35:04.035 do, the heel next week and we'll do the shin and shoulder blades and ribs. 01:35:04.040 --> 01:35:08.025 And we've done the rectus a dominous muscles, we'll do different 01:35:08.025 --> 01:35:09.615 developmental movement patterns. 01:35:09.795 --> 01:35:14.930 But basically it's based on the premise that, The body moves differently in 01:35:14.930 --> 01:35:16.670 parasympathetic and sympathetic system. 01:35:16.920 --> 01:35:20.600 the way that we start to activate sensory nerves is to bring awareness. 01:35:21.030 --> 01:35:24.990 I work with like a two point awareness process where we focus on two points 01:35:24.990 --> 01:35:27.570 in a specific part of the body and just observe what's happening. 01:35:27.900 --> 01:35:32.280 And that starts to activate the sensory system, which overall kicks 01:35:32.280 --> 01:35:33.600 back into the unconscious brain. 01:35:33.600 --> 01:35:37.410 And then you start to habituate, habituate these sensory feedback loops. 01:35:37.710 --> 01:35:41.030 But basically it's just like a movement practice that's, that 01:35:41.030 --> 01:35:42.380 focuses on different body parts. 01:35:42.380 --> 01:35:44.960 So we're like mapping the body by going through different structural 01:35:44.965 --> 01:35:49.020 parts, noticing different points on the part of the body that we're 01:35:49.020 --> 01:35:52.770 focusing on with view to activating the sensory system in that area. 01:35:53.190 --> 01:35:56.500 And, and that overall starts to, kick the brain back into a 01:35:56.500 --> 01:35:57.640 different mode of functioning. 01:35:58.230 --> 01:35:58.520 Rupert Isaacson: Okay. 01:35:58.520 --> 01:36:01.570 And then overall by then going through these various different parts of 01:36:01.575 --> 01:36:04.750 the body, through these different types of observation and movement, 01:36:04.755 --> 01:36:09.460 you get to a sort of a hole at a certain point where you've sort of 01:36:09.460 --> 01:36:15.820 retrained the body and the brain to basically come to more functionality. 01:36:16.570 --> 01:36:16.990 Jane Pike: Yeah. 01:36:16.990 --> 01:36:19.010 So if you think of it or functionality, yeah. 01:36:19.010 --> 01:36:19.250 Yeah. 01:36:19.480 --> 01:36:22.950 The, we have, something in our brain called place cells and grid 01:36:22.955 --> 01:36:25.650 cells and their cells of location. 01:36:25.920 --> 01:36:30.600 So basically my brain is, has a map of everything that's in 01:36:30.605 --> 01:36:33.000 my body, in relationship to. 01:36:33.345 --> 01:36:33.855 Each other. 01:36:34.215 --> 01:36:37.635 So for instance, it knows where my wrist is in relationship to my elbow 01:36:37.635 --> 01:36:41.085 cap, and it knows where my knees in relationship to my ankle, and 01:36:41.085 --> 01:36:42.285 it also knows where my organs are. 01:36:42.285 --> 01:36:43.395 It's at the end of your hands. 01:36:43.395 --> 01:36:43.965 Yeah. 01:36:43.970 --> 01:36:44.355 Yeah. 01:36:44.355 --> 01:36:47.115 It also knows where all my organs are and all of those sorts of things. 01:36:47.115 --> 01:36:50.475 So that's part of my sensory motor map that's in my, in my brain. 01:36:50.785 --> 01:36:56.640 And when that sensory motor map is, accurate, so when it's, it's updated and 01:36:56.640 --> 01:37:00.780 the, the brain has accurate information about the different location landmarks of 01:37:00.785 --> 01:37:05.680 the body, it's able to accurately place me in relationship to my environment. 01:37:06.110 --> 01:37:08.780 And so that is through my sensory system. 01:37:09.290 --> 01:37:14.330 I basically got a series of active sensory feedback loops that are feeling into the 01:37:14.330 --> 01:37:17.960 environment, giving my brain information so my brain can respond accurately. 01:37:18.350 --> 01:37:22.700 When we start to get into fight flight, more often than not that 01:37:22.700 --> 01:37:24.530 brain map starts to get distorted. 01:37:24.840 --> 01:37:28.620 It can get distorted through paying attention to sensation too much. 01:37:28.620 --> 01:37:33.220 So how I feel, the sensation that's in my body, that's separate to location. 01:37:33.520 --> 01:37:38.110 And when we have a distorted sensory motor map, the sensory system gets switched off. 01:37:38.480 --> 01:37:42.256 And again, the brain's unable to accurately make decisions, and. 01:37:42.870 --> 01:37:44.280 And you experience this all the time. 01:37:44.280 --> 01:37:46.530 When you're in a place of like high anxiety, it's like you're no 01:37:46.530 --> 01:37:50.160 longer responding accurately, or you can see that in someone else. 01:37:50.160 --> 01:37:52.980 They just have this kind of complete discombobulated view of themselves 01:37:52.985 --> 01:37:54.150 in relationship to the world. 01:37:54.550 --> 01:37:59.050 And so you don't actually have to, for, for as long as the brain has a 01:37:59.050 --> 01:38:02.950 few accu, few active sensory loops to go on, you can really start to 01:38:02.950 --> 01:38:04.810 change your experience of the world. 01:38:05.140 --> 01:38:09.130 And so we do that through this two point process, which is in line with 01:38:09.130 --> 01:38:13.100 activating these play cells and grid cells, which is just an awareness process. 01:38:13.100 --> 01:38:16.580 And the other thing is, everything that I talk about here might sound confusing. 01:38:16.730 --> 01:38:18.651 You don't need to know any of it in order for it to work. 01:38:18.656 --> 01:38:21.590 Like you don't need to know how it works in order for it to work. 01:38:21.590 --> 01:38:23.480 It's kind of like the horse boy stuff. 01:38:23.480 --> 01:38:28.430 Like if you experience it, it doesn't matter why or how, like it's just, 01:38:28.620 --> 01:38:32.870 it, it will work because there's a way that the body responds to the process 01:38:32.875 --> 01:38:34.490 that allows that to be the case. 01:38:34.490 --> 01:38:35.390 And it's the same here. 01:38:35.390 --> 01:38:40.370 Like my process is I love to understand things and there are other people 01:38:40.430 --> 01:38:41.600 that love to understand things. 01:38:41.600 --> 01:38:45.020 So I lay out these processes as to this is why it works. 01:38:45.020 --> 01:38:49.430 But the reality is if you come in and just do the practice, you can 01:38:49.430 --> 01:38:53.870 understand nothing and still get the benefits of it because it's just part 01:38:53.875 --> 01:38:55.880 of the physi physiological process. 01:38:56.620 --> 01:39:00.960 Rupert Isaacson: Did, did you have a mentor similar to, your mentor with yoga? 01:39:01.360 --> 01:39:02.530 Your mentors with yoga? 01:39:02.535 --> 01:39:02.610 Yeah. 01:39:02.710 --> 01:39:04.780 Who, who, who mentored you in. 01:39:05.275 --> 01:39:08.485 This, deep nervous system stuff because I, you know, I work a lot 01:39:08.485 --> 01:39:10.765 with the nervous system with advance to autism and that sort of thing, 01:39:10.945 --> 01:39:14.005 but I haven't dealt, I ha I have not dived into it as deeply as you have. 01:39:14.395 --> 01:39:16.585 And I'm, I'm, I'm fascinated by this. 01:39:16.945 --> 01:39:18.775 Who, who, who, who schooled you in this? 01:39:18.775 --> 01:39:20.815 Where, what's the story again? 01:39:20.815 --> 01:39:22.555 Jane Pike: Yeah, so I, I mean, I'm still being schooled. 01:39:22.555 --> 01:39:26.795 I still have multiple schoolings schoolings a week, with it and, have 01:39:26.800 --> 01:39:28.595 been now for the past few years. 01:39:28.595 --> 01:39:32.370 So I initially, Alicia Fado is my mentor. 01:39:32.400 --> 01:39:35.550 She works with holistic biomechanics and Alicia Fado. 01:39:36.030 --> 01:39:36.480 Yes. 01:39:36.480 --> 01:39:36.930 Yeah. 01:39:36.980 --> 01:39:42.230 And so she is my, my person basically, that I refer to and talk to and 01:39:42.230 --> 01:39:43.640 have learnt a huge amount off. 01:39:44.120 --> 01:39:46.760 And so when, how did you find your way to her at? 01:39:46.910 --> 01:39:51.350 Was it again, seeking answers for your own pain, or was it more curiosity? 01:39:51.350 --> 01:39:55.590 No, I mean, I mean, that has been, when we talk about the pain 01:39:55.595 --> 01:39:59.290 aspect, I've definitely, like I'm completely pain free now. 01:39:59.620 --> 01:40:04.270 Rupert Isaacson: That's been the, probably the last five years or so since I study, 01:40:04.270 --> 01:40:05.200 and that's been through this work. 01:40:05.200 --> 01:40:07.630 So would you say you are the Yes. 01:40:07.930 --> 01:40:11.230 This whole, this whole conversation we've had, which began with forms 01:40:11.235 --> 01:40:14.600 of physical and psychological and emotional physical pain Yes. 01:40:15.130 --> 01:40:16.030 Has been a asway. 01:40:16.030 --> 01:40:19.600 You could say, I, Joan Pike have experienced this in my body and brain. 01:40:19.600 --> 01:40:20.570 It's mm-hmm. 01:40:20.650 --> 01:40:21.650 The shit works, basically. 01:40:22.070 --> 01:40:22.490 Jane Pike: Mm-hmm. 01:40:22.870 --> 01:40:23.170 Yeah. 01:40:23.175 --> 01:40:26.860 And I see it in my membership as well, but it's not an easy process. 01:40:27.190 --> 01:40:29.420 Rupert Isaacson: How did you, how did you encounter, Felicia? 01:40:29.420 --> 01:40:29.480 I. 01:40:30.135 --> 01:40:30.555 Alicia. 01:40:30.555 --> 01:40:31.475 Yeah, sorry. 01:40:31.965 --> 01:40:32.565 Jane Pike: Yeah, yeah. 01:40:32.565 --> 01:40:35.555 I, so Alicia I got the Yeah, yeah, yeah. 01:40:35.555 --> 01:40:36.475 You've got, yeah. 01:40:36.575 --> 01:40:37.980 So I, let me just think. 01:40:37.985 --> 01:40:43.530 So my initial interest, so I started the work, I guess from a much 01:40:43.530 --> 01:40:46.100 more mental skills perspective, like a top down perspective. 01:40:47.160 --> 01:40:52.230 And that was about, kind of like mental strength, I guess. 01:40:52.230 --> 01:40:56.960 Kind of like harnessing mental strength and like positive thinking and and, 01:40:57.020 --> 01:40:59.840 mental toughness and all of those types of words, which make me throw 01:40:59.840 --> 01:41:00.890 up in my mouth a little bit now. 01:41:00.890 --> 01:41:04.620 But all of those types of words, were, were my interests to start with. 01:41:04.650 --> 01:41:08.770 And, one of the things about those things is that you're always 01:41:08.830 --> 01:41:10.000 behind the eight ball, right? 01:41:10.090 --> 01:41:12.490 You can only change a thought to a positive thought after you've 01:41:12.490 --> 01:41:13.540 already had the negative thought. 01:41:14.090 --> 01:41:16.635 And so you're always kind of chasing your tail a little bit there. 01:41:16.935 --> 01:41:24.440 But, the interesting thing is that, I realized the, that those skills 01:41:24.440 --> 01:41:26.030 and understandings had to shelf life. 01:41:26.585 --> 01:41:29.105 As far as like, for some people they worked just sort of depended 01:41:29.105 --> 01:41:30.965 on the start, at the start point. 01:41:31.335 --> 01:41:34.175 And, and I got to a stage myself where I was having like 01:41:34.180 --> 01:41:36.305 a meltdown in the arena one day. 01:41:36.365 --> 01:41:39.425 That wasn't just in relationship to what was going on, it was more actually 01:41:39.545 --> 01:41:41.315 just a life circumstance at the time. 01:41:41.375 --> 01:41:43.716 This is at home Lone Horse in New Zealand. 01:41:43.985 --> 01:41:44.045 Yeah. 01:41:44.050 --> 01:41:46.835 And I remember thinking like, no, it was at a clinic. 01:41:46.835 --> 01:41:47.525 Even worse. 01:41:47.525 --> 01:41:50.395 I was at a clinic, with a public, with an audience, which is clinic. 01:41:50.535 --> 01:41:53.155 Rupert Isaacson: For those, for those non horsey people does not 01:41:53.155 --> 01:41:54.355 mean she went to the doctors. 01:41:54.385 --> 01:41:57.825 It means, no, but she should have at that moment a public horse 01:41:57.825 --> 01:42:00.155 training event for some weird reason. 01:42:00.705 --> 01:42:01.215 We horsey. 01:42:01.215 --> 01:42:02.175 People call them clinics. 01:42:02.175 --> 01:42:02.515 God knows why. 01:42:02.775 --> 01:42:02.865 True. 01:42:03.225 --> 01:42:03.707 I've seen that kind of. 01:42:03.735 --> 01:42:04.195 Yes, that's true. 01:42:04.225 --> 01:42:06.765 What do you mean you went to a clinic with your horse or they, they 01:42:06.770 --> 01:42:10.305 they allowed you to like tie it up outside or, and then Oh, see, yes, 01:42:10.305 --> 01:42:11.985 it's, no, I didn't go to the doctor. 01:42:12.165 --> 01:42:12.345 Ok. 01:42:12.405 --> 01:42:12.765 So fine. 01:42:12.795 --> 01:42:12.945 Yeah. 01:42:12.945 --> 01:42:16.875 So you're at, you're at a horse training event and, and you are at, 01:42:17.145 --> 01:42:18.375 you're there as a horse trainer? 01:42:19.345 --> 01:42:20.205 Jane Pike: No, I'm there as a student. 01:42:20.815 --> 01:42:20.935 Okay. 01:42:20.995 --> 01:42:21.325 Yeah. 01:42:21.325 --> 01:42:22.245 And you have meltdown? 01:42:23.065 --> 01:42:23.965 Yes, I have a meltdown. 01:42:24.625 --> 01:42:28.075 I mean, I'm not, I have an internal meltdown trying to hold it together 01:42:28.405 --> 01:42:33.115 and, and I just backing up because, I think it was more dangerous, 01:42:33.355 --> 01:42:34.945 the context of the situation. 01:42:35.185 --> 01:42:39.580 I had two, young, very expressive horses, but that normal, 01:42:40.360 --> 01:42:41.710 normal wouldn't bother me. 01:42:41.950 --> 01:42:44.370 It was more just, I think that, expressive. 01:42:44.610 --> 01:42:45.600 I had a closer. 01:42:46.740 --> 01:42:47.730 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 01:42:47.735 --> 01:42:48.900 But, also just. 01:42:50.085 --> 01:42:53.640 I guess I had a lot of respect for the trainer. 01:42:53.720 --> 01:42:59.210 You know, I really wanted to do a good job and I felt like I wasn't doing a good job 01:42:59.210 --> 01:43:02.540 and there was just, I just put a lot of pressure on myself to be something other 01:43:02.540 --> 01:43:04.280 than what I was able to be in that moment. 01:43:04.280 --> 01:43:07.225 And that was what precipitated the, experience. 01:43:07.725 --> 01:43:13.765 But afterwards, it created a whole change because I was like, well, if I 01:43:13.795 --> 01:43:18.355 can't do this based on all the things I teach and I live and breathe this 01:43:18.355 --> 01:43:23.425 stuff, then how can I expect someone else to do it that perhaps isn't doing 01:43:23.455 --> 01:43:27.535 20% of the work that I do, or thinking about it the way that I think about it? 01:43:27.865 --> 01:43:29.665 How can I expect it to work? 01:43:29.745 --> 01:43:33.705 And so I had a crisis of sorts after that. 01:43:33.705 --> 01:43:38.535 And then I went on a whole different exploration, which led me in the first 01:43:38.535 --> 01:43:42.725 instance to somatic experiencing, which is a lot of the work that's 01:43:42.730 --> 01:43:44.535 based, the of Peter Levine's. 01:43:44.585 --> 01:43:48.905 And he does a lot of, you know, nervous system, trauma based work. 01:43:48.935 --> 01:43:55.735 And I did loads and loads of study and loads of different workshops with, people 01:43:55.995 --> 01:43:58.365 who were his colleagues and or students. 01:43:58.675 --> 01:44:03.295 And the work that I'm teaching now was, Alicia was a guest speaker 01:44:03.355 --> 01:44:05.275 on one of those, workshops. 01:44:05.305 --> 01:44:05.335 Okay. 01:44:05.785 --> 01:44:10.360 And I was there thinking, What is this? 01:44:11.500 --> 01:44:13.750 Like, this is so random. 01:44:13.750 --> 01:44:19.660 Like I just, I a and a little bit like your, your, your reaction to the, to the 01:44:19.660 --> 01:44:21.610 more therapeutic yoga after the hard yoga. 01:44:22.330 --> 01:44:23.470 Yeah, exactly. 01:44:23.470 --> 01:44:26.550 Like, it was like, but there was a part of me which was super curious, 01:44:26.690 --> 01:44:30.820 and I think that was the intuitive part that just was like, keep going. 01:44:30.820 --> 01:44:32.350 You know, like I had the little, like, you applied it to 01:44:32.350 --> 01:44:34.300 yourself, you've found something. 01:44:34.300 --> 01:44:34.480 Yeah. 01:44:34.480 --> 01:44:35.260 You've found something. 01:44:35.260 --> 01:44:37.180 You need to like, investigate this further. 01:44:37.180 --> 01:44:43.205 And, a lot of the questions that I had had that had very loose answers 01:44:43.205 --> 01:44:46.925 that weren't satisfying to me, you know, and I think I'm in a fortunate 01:44:46.925 --> 01:44:52.175 position in that because I'm teaching things, I'm not just finding out 01:44:52.175 --> 01:44:53.885 things from a personal perspective. 01:44:54.125 --> 01:44:57.095 Loose answers don't hold because I'm gonna be questioned as well. 01:44:57.965 --> 01:45:01.275 So it's like, you need to be able to tell me what's going on here otherwise, 01:45:01.785 --> 01:45:03.195 because I need to know, right. 01:45:03.605 --> 01:45:06.125 I need to know who this best suits, who this best fits. 01:45:06.125 --> 01:45:07.985 Rupert Isaacson: And, and Alicia could give you these answers 01:45:07.985 --> 01:45:11.435 sort of suddenly she's explaining it in a way that Yeah, exactly. 01:45:11.435 --> 01:45:12.875 Source inside the nervous system. 01:45:12.875 --> 01:45:13.275 Mm-hmm. 01:45:13.505 --> 01:45:13.795 Yeah. 01:45:13.925 --> 01:45:14.825 Quick question. 01:45:14.945 --> 01:45:18.455 You say you don't do any yoga anymore, or any breath work? 01:45:18.665 --> 01:45:18.875 No. 01:45:18.905 --> 01:45:19.445 Why not? 01:45:19.595 --> 01:45:20.735 Why not integrate the two? 01:45:20.735 --> 01:45:24.035 What, what, what makes you say, okay, well I'm moving away. 01:45:24.035 --> 01:45:25.265 I've moved away from that now. 01:45:26.135 --> 01:45:26.555 Jane Pike: Yeah. 01:45:26.605 --> 01:45:32.225 So one thing that I always encourage people to do is to. 01:45:33.595 --> 01:45:39.055 To investigate the lineage of whatever it is that they are engaging in 01:45:39.085 --> 01:45:42.205 as far as processes and not all. 01:45:42.205 --> 01:45:45.885 Cause I will, you know, I don't wanna ever paint the brush, widely across 01:45:45.975 --> 01:45:51.015 everything, but a lot of the lineages of yoga and the ones that I were pr I 01:45:51.015 --> 01:45:53.655 was practicing come from, aesthetic. 01:45:54.905 --> 01:45:55.515 Aesthetic. 01:45:55.515 --> 01:45:56.515 What's not aesthetic? 01:45:56.675 --> 01:45:58.975 Aestheticism, aestheticism, aestheticism. 01:45:58.975 --> 01:46:00.085 They come from aestheticism. 01:46:00.090 --> 01:46:01.945 Ah, removing yourself from the body. 01:46:01.945 --> 01:46:03.235 Removing, yeah. 01:46:03.235 --> 01:46:07.045 And, and so, and, and a lot of meditation practices are for that as well, right? 01:46:07.050 --> 01:46:09.715 Ah, so like, it's about moving towards enlightenment. 01:46:09.715 --> 01:46:13.255 It's about moving towards emergence with the divine. 01:46:13.255 --> 01:46:16.795 Like in whatever way that manifests for you, it is body 01:46:16.795 --> 01:46:18.075 develop the system, in fact. 01:46:18.085 --> 01:46:18.475 Yeah. 01:46:18.480 --> 01:46:23.100 And, and it used to be, it used to be a, got it aspirational to hear 01:46:23.100 --> 01:46:27.330 about like these advanced yogis, quote unquote, who would sit for 21 01:46:27.330 --> 01:46:31.830 days and not have food, not need to go to the toilet, not need to drink, 01:46:32.100 --> 01:46:34.350 not have any sort of earthly desires. 01:46:34.350 --> 01:46:36.390 And you'd think, wow, that's amazing. 01:46:36.395 --> 01:46:39.120 And now I think, wow, that's dysfunctional. 01:46:39.125 --> 01:46:42.180 Like, that's like not normal for a body, right? 01:46:42.570 --> 01:46:48.210 And so I was starting to have a lot of different physical issues from yoga. 01:46:48.210 --> 01:46:52.470 Like, you know, it's very common for women to lose their period. 01:46:52.475 --> 01:46:58.080 It's very common for people to develop, to develop different body dysmorphic. 01:46:58.180 --> 01:46:59.770 Syndromes or disorders. 01:46:59.770 --> 01:47:00.640 It's very common. 01:47:00.640 --> 01:47:02.290 Rupert Isaacson: It's interesting cause that isn't talked about. 01:47:02.290 --> 01:47:05.050 I I, it's interesting you say it's very common because I mean, I know 01:47:05.055 --> 01:47:06.370 so many people in the yoga world. 01:47:06.640 --> 01:47:10.450 I myself had not for very long, but I had a, I had a, a pretty good 01:47:10.510 --> 01:47:14.990 aang yoga practice myself for a bit until I became a dad and, then 01:47:15.220 --> 01:47:16.570 began to self-medicate with beer. 01:47:17.040 --> 01:47:17.910 And that went out the window. 01:47:17.910 --> 01:47:17.970 Yeah. 01:47:18.250 --> 01:47:25.120 But at the, you know, you never heard any of the Yoginis or any of these 01:47:25.120 --> 01:47:27.040 people saying, oh, I lost my period. 01:47:27.040 --> 01:47:30.190 Or that if they were, they certainly it to themselves. 01:47:30.190 --> 01:47:32.890 Jane Pike: I was teaching in the up, I was teaching in the upper echelons 01:47:32.890 --> 01:47:36.220 of it at one point, and I'm watching people who are writing for Yoga journal 01:47:36.220 --> 01:47:40.090 and I'm watching people who are like on Gaia and I'm watching people that 01:47:40.090 --> 01:47:43.810 are like, you know, really at the top, top of the profession there. 01:47:44.410 --> 01:47:49.690 And I know them personally and I know that their reality is different 01:47:49.690 --> 01:47:50.530 from what they're teaching. 01:47:50.530 --> 01:47:50.560 Okay. 01:47:50.880 --> 01:47:54.970 Like, and I'm like, this is just not right. 01:47:54.970 --> 01:47:57.640 Like this is not, something is really not right here. 01:47:57.700 --> 01:48:02.825 And so, For me, you know what I understand now about many of the 01:48:02.825 --> 01:48:08.105 practices is that they take people into collapse, which is the point, right? 01:48:08.105 --> 01:48:11.075 Like you've got, you're supposed to be at the end of your nervous 01:48:11.080 --> 01:48:12.425 system when you pass over. 01:48:12.725 --> 01:48:15.395 But the, the collapse feels better to a lot of people. 01:48:15.400 --> 01:48:19.175 A because now sensation is absent in the body, which feels safer. 01:48:19.205 --> 01:48:21.695 Most people equate any sort of feeling or sensation in the 01:48:21.695 --> 01:48:23.165 body with a degree of danger. 01:48:23.795 --> 01:48:27.305 You feel more in control because now your conscious brain and your unconscious 01:48:27.305 --> 01:48:31.025 brain are more in alignment because again, you're not at war with your body. 01:48:31.305 --> 01:48:33.590 And so you feel like you have a semblance of control. 01:48:34.330 --> 01:48:39.310 And, that's kind of the, the, the two things that are most stand out. 01:48:39.310 --> 01:48:43.480 And you, you, you, you, you do lose like a desire because your body's just not in the 01:48:43.480 --> 01:48:46.030 place where it's robust enough to have it. 01:48:46.290 --> 01:48:51.360 Rupert Isaacson: When you, when you, so is that the euphoria in collapse? 01:48:51.360 --> 01:48:51.680 This is interesting. 01:48:51.810 --> 01:48:53.120 Would that be for example? 01:48:53.120 --> 01:48:53.280 Jane Pike: Yeah. 01:48:53.280 --> 01:48:57.180 In the later stages of collapse, so like motor neuron disease, ms, a lot 01:48:57.180 --> 01:48:59.640 of those things are like the later stages of collapse and a lot of the 01:48:59.640 --> 01:49:03.570 studies they've done with people show those people to be very happy. 01:49:03.790 --> 01:49:08.770 Because the, the, the self-protective mechanism of the body when it is in 01:49:08.770 --> 01:49:12.820 that advanced stage of nervous system, I don't wanna say degradation cause 01:49:12.820 --> 01:49:16.630 that's not the right word, but just of, of where it's sitting is to actually 01:49:16.630 --> 01:49:22.810 like, Create a degree of euphoria as a handholding mechanism basically. 01:49:22.950 --> 01:49:26.600 Pump you full of, pump you full of Gilbert with hormones to take 01:49:26.600 --> 01:49:28.730 you into a, a smooth transition. 01:49:28.730 --> 01:49:28.910 Yeah. 01:49:29.100 --> 01:49:30.240 Rupert Isaacson: Is that for as well? 01:49:30.500 --> 01:49:33.720 Is that the, that Abe has, you know, when they're looking at the, 01:49:33.980 --> 01:49:35.150 while dogs pulling their guts, 01:49:35.150 --> 01:49:37.800 Jane Pike: they've gone and they have the, they have the level of 01:49:37.960 --> 01:49:41.280 thoughts and the hallucinations and, and they're not feeling the Okay. 01:49:41.400 --> 01:49:43.770 Maybe DMT being produced in the pineal gland. 01:49:43.770 --> 01:49:44.040 Yeah. 01:49:44.100 --> 01:49:46.980 Well, like the, the thing about the nervous system is it is a, 01:49:47.190 --> 01:49:50.670 it is designed to lead you in the best way possible towards death. 01:49:50.970 --> 01:49:53.880 Like, if you think about it, I, I could see that, I see what you're saying. 01:49:54.250 --> 01:49:56.660 Like the body to work supposed work for you, right? 01:49:56.850 --> 01:49:57.140 Yeah. 01:49:57.450 --> 01:50:00.360 But it's only supposed to happen at like six, for six weeks, right. 01:50:00.360 --> 01:50:01.110 When you're old. 01:50:01.260 --> 01:50:05.370 But now we're stuck in like 40 years in, in the collapse stage, 01:50:05.480 --> 01:50:07.310 you know, for, for, for some people. 01:50:07.310 --> 01:50:11.510 And so there's, there's this, this wear and tear that happens, but, okay. 01:50:11.840 --> 01:50:12.020 Yeah. 01:50:12.020 --> 01:50:16.690 And you know, for me, with the yoga as well, and I, I'll, I don't know, I think 01:50:16.690 --> 01:50:22.270 I can speak for a wider audience when I say this, in that like a, aside from the 01:50:22.270 --> 01:50:30.580 body denial, that idea of like oneness with consciousness is also, somewhat of 01:50:30.580 --> 01:50:33.490 a relief for a lot of people who have. 01:50:34.780 --> 01:50:41.140 You know, cultural expectations and sometimes not great experiences around 01:50:41.140 --> 01:50:44.910 sex and relationship and, intimacy. 01:50:45.210 --> 01:50:48.760 And so it's a ticket out of that, right? 01:50:48.830 --> 01:50:52.380 Like if it takes your away from ticket, your body, and that's, it's a ticket out 01:50:52.380 --> 01:50:56.520 of that to, to think, okay, well I don't, I just don't even have to deal with that. 01:50:56.520 --> 01:50:56.790 Now. 01:50:56.790 --> 01:51:01.980 I can be like, I can just be little old me merging with the universal consciousness, 01:51:01.980 --> 01:51:05.130 and I get to deny everything that feels uncomfortable in my body. 01:51:05.130 --> 01:51:08.340 I get to deny everything that feels uncomfortable emotionally. 01:51:08.610 --> 01:51:11.400 I get to deny, deny, deny, and just move towards this. 01:51:11.940 --> 01:51:17.790 And because actually being in a body affirming, life-affirming 01:51:18.150 --> 01:51:20.520 practice is freaking hard, right? 01:51:21.300 --> 01:51:23.070 Because then you have to be in life. 01:51:23.580 --> 01:51:24.680 And life is hard sometimes. 01:51:25.110 --> 01:51:25.240 Rupert Isaacson: I get it. 01:51:25.520 --> 01:51:25.840 I get it. 01:51:26.010 --> 01:51:29.070 So if you're, but if you're a mom, you know, dealing with your ki you, 01:51:29.070 --> 01:51:29.920 you haven't got that option, right? 01:51:30.270 --> 01:51:32.700 You've gotta, you've gotta get up, you've gotta deal with your kids, 01:51:32.700 --> 01:51:33.930 you've gotta have these relationships. 01:51:33.930 --> 01:51:37.500 You've gotta, you've gotta deal with life with the sensory system, 01:51:37.500 --> 01:51:38.820 with other people's sensory systems. 01:51:39.030 --> 01:51:40.980 Jane Pike: Well, the, the mohans would say that this is not a 01:51:40.980 --> 01:51:43.800 practice for family age people. 01:51:44.000 --> 01:51:44.290 Okay? 01:51:45.660 --> 01:51:45.870 Okay. 01:51:45.875 --> 01:51:47.190 Because you have responsibilities. 01:51:47.220 --> 01:51:51.090 This is the practice for when you get to be, you know, older. 01:51:51.540 --> 01:51:55.550 Rupert Isaacson: So if you, if you are a mom or a dad, going through 01:51:55.550 --> 01:51:56.870 what moms and dads go through, then. 01:51:57.690 --> 01:52:00.845 And you are firmly stuck in the, 01:52:01.035 --> 01:52:05.015 Jane Pike: then the asana part of the yoga journey is your emphasis 01:52:05.015 --> 01:52:06.335 at that point, the posture part. 01:52:06.335 --> 01:52:06.365 Okay. 01:52:06.695 --> 01:52:08.525 But it becomes less and less about posture. 01:52:08.530 --> 01:52:08.615 Right. 01:52:08.945 --> 01:52:11.695 And then it becomes more and more about, , emergence with 01:52:11.700 --> 01:52:13.435 the divine and one point of, 01:52:13.515 --> 01:52:17.545 Rupert Isaacson: but, but with your, with your work, then if I'm me dad, 01:52:17.755 --> 01:52:20.625 I'm dad, you know, dealing with dad stuff, I'll be up early tomorrow 01:52:20.625 --> 01:52:21.795 morning dealing with dad's stuff. 01:52:22.285 --> 01:52:24.295 There is no choice but to deal with relationships. 01:52:24.295 --> 01:52:26.005 There is no choice but to Yes. 01:52:26.455 --> 01:52:26.635 Yes. 01:52:26.640 --> 01:52:36.085 Then, then delving into my nervous system can help me to respond 01:52:36.085 --> 01:52:38.155 appropriately to what's in front of me. 01:52:38.215 --> 01:52:39.145 Yeah, absolutely. 01:52:39.145 --> 01:52:41.785 It just depends what, what Give, give me tools, right? 01:52:41.965 --> 01:52:43.015 Jane Pike: Yeah, absolutely. 01:52:43.015 --> 01:52:48.805 It's just about like, now I have the capacity to show up and meet what I need 01:52:48.810 --> 01:52:51.385 to show up for in a way that's real. 01:52:51.955 --> 01:52:52.045 Okay. 01:52:52.235 --> 01:52:54.455 And some people will opt out of that, by the way. 01:52:56.015 --> 01:52:56.255 Yeah. 01:52:57.005 --> 01:53:00.515 Some people will opt out of that because it bring, brings a degree of discomfort 01:53:01.055 --> 01:53:02.345 to be able to meet what's real. 01:53:02.345 --> 01:53:06.035 Sometimes you recognize your situation needs to change or your relationship 01:53:06.040 --> 01:53:08.825 needs to change, or you are not actually doing something that fulfills 01:53:08.825 --> 01:53:11.225 you or this wasn't the choice that you would've liked to have made. 01:53:11.225 --> 01:53:12.455 And so you have to meet that. 01:53:12.845 --> 01:53:13.416 You have to meet that. 01:53:13.435 --> 01:53:15.665 And, and that's takes. 01:53:16.490 --> 01:53:17.090 Resilience. 01:53:17.095 --> 01:53:20.700 That takes courage, that takes, you know, a lot of what we're 01:53:20.700 --> 01:53:22.170 fed in the world at the moment. 01:53:22.200 --> 01:53:23.970 No, I'm gonna go to a cave and just meditate. 01:53:23.975 --> 01:53:24.510 Thanks very much. 01:53:24.510 --> 01:53:24.720 Really. 01:53:25.530 --> 01:53:27.571 But really you can see that's an attractive option, right? 01:53:28.080 --> 01:53:30.570 Meeting the reality is not necessarily an attractive option, 01:53:30.570 --> 01:53:33.930 but I, I decided that like I would rather meet the reality in the full 01:53:33.930 --> 01:53:35.700 discomfort than be in the delusion. 01:53:36.450 --> 01:53:39.720 Rupert Isaacson: So, and was it, in that meeting of the reality, would you 01:53:39.720 --> 01:53:42.180 say that your pain began to dissipate? 01:53:43.590 --> 01:53:49.390 Jane Pike: Yeah, so, the body, the way the body leverages movement is different from 01:53:49.395 --> 01:53:52.510 sympathetic, so different from the fight flight system to the parasympathetic. 01:53:52.690 --> 01:53:56.560 So when I'm looking to create movement in the fight flight 01:53:56.560 --> 01:54:00.250 system, it's my lower back and my neck that leveraged the movement. 01:54:00.670 --> 01:54:05.020 The, the lower back is what is fueling movement in the lower part 01:54:05.020 --> 01:54:08.090 of the body and the, neck fuels the movement of the shoulder girdle, 01:54:08.090 --> 01:54:09.560 so moving in and out of the tube. 01:54:10.070 --> 01:54:18.200 And I think one of the missing pieces of information out there is that the, 01:54:18.590 --> 01:54:22.190 oh, I've just lost my train of thought, is that when we, when we think about, 01:54:22.240 --> 01:54:26.680 movement patterns, your movement is either rooted in your sympathetic 01:54:26.680 --> 01:54:29.830 nervous system or it's rooted in your parasympathetic nervous system. 01:54:30.230 --> 01:54:34.770 And so the movement patterns themselves are. 01:54:35.465 --> 01:54:39.455 The way that your body creates movement is basically, a product of 01:54:39.455 --> 01:54:41.135 where your nervous system is sitting. 01:54:41.135 --> 01:54:45.995 And so for me, I was stuck in a dominant mode of functioning, if you think about it 01:54:46.000 --> 01:54:49.505 like that, like a dominantly sympathetic or fight flight mode of functioning. 01:54:49.775 --> 01:54:53.735 And the way that my body was achieving everyday activities like walking 01:54:53.735 --> 01:54:56.735 around, going up and down steps, like getting up and down off the 01:54:56.735 --> 01:54:59.915 couch was a fight flight action. 01:55:00.195 --> 01:55:03.355 The dominant, mode of functioning was fight flight. 01:55:03.685 --> 01:55:07.825 And so even if my emotional framework didn't warrant a fight, flight response, 01:55:07.830 --> 01:55:13.135 the way that my movement was dominantly geared was in the fight flight system. 01:55:13.135 --> 01:55:16.315 So I was just firing off my nervous system every time I moved around. 01:55:16.765 --> 01:55:21.365 So overall, because, my lu spine is working so hard and my cervical spine 01:55:21.365 --> 01:55:25.920 is working so hard, from such an early age, and we tend to be gifted the nervous 01:55:25.920 --> 01:55:31.210 system of our mothers and our primary caregivers, I was just creating so much 01:55:31.240 --> 01:55:36.710 compression and leverage in my body that it was resulting in, chronic pain. 01:55:37.010 --> 01:55:40.250 And so when I changed the underlying nervous system state and changed 01:55:40.250 --> 01:55:44.240 the way that my body was leveraging movement, I don't get the pain anymore. 01:55:44.500 --> 01:55:46.070 Rupert Isaacson: Was that the aha moment? 01:55:47.970 --> 01:55:51.050 What point, at what point did you realize, oh my gosh, this is happening? 01:55:51.530 --> 01:55:52.730 Jane Pike: I instantly changed. 01:55:52.730 --> 01:55:55.790 So when I got, when I had a couple of questions answered 01:55:55.790 --> 01:55:59.750 that I hadn't had answered for a long time, I was like, Shit. 01:56:00.770 --> 01:56:05.030 Basically that was my first response because it's like, I've built this body 01:56:05.030 --> 01:56:09.890 of work on all of this study I've done over the last 20 years, and now I'm 01:56:09.890 --> 01:56:17.120 sitting here on a Zoom call realizing that actually I've got some stuff wrong. 01:56:18.330 --> 01:56:22.950 And so I am going to completely redo my program from the ground up. 01:56:22.950 --> 01:56:23.640 And that's what I did. 01:56:24.060 --> 01:56:27.900 And I told people, I was like, so you know how you've been working 01:56:27.900 --> 01:56:30.930 with me for like a really long time and we've been doing this stuff? 01:56:32.230 --> 01:56:32.570 Rupert Isaacson: Oh really? 01:56:32.990 --> 01:56:35.850 You had to go to, by now you've got the online memberships and all that. 01:56:35.850 --> 01:56:38.770 You had to go back and say, oh, by the way, that was all redid. 01:56:38.830 --> 01:56:39.250 Jane Pike: The whole thing. 01:56:39.250 --> 01:56:41.040 That was all whole, now we have to, yeah. 01:56:41.100 --> 01:56:41.340 Wow. 01:56:41.345 --> 01:56:41.650 That's great. 01:56:41.810 --> 01:56:46.290 I didn't think, I didn't think it was all shy, but I was like, I, I've got 01:56:46.290 --> 01:56:50.760 some question, I've got some answers here to holes that have been in the 01:56:50.760 --> 01:56:53.970 program and we're gonna take it from the ground up and I'm gonna change it. 01:56:53.970 --> 01:56:57.330 So you've got six months to go through what I've got here, and in six months 01:56:57.330 --> 01:56:59.640 time we're wiping it and starting again. 01:56:59.700 --> 01:57:02.850 Rupert Isaacson: Was it when you went through that kind of reboot? 01:57:03.690 --> 01:57:06.840 So you, you, by this time, you've actually established an, a successful 01:57:06.840 --> 01:57:09.750 online business, which presumably is getting results and helping 01:57:09.750 --> 01:57:10.800 people otherwise people would Yes. 01:57:10.800 --> 01:57:11.400 It's right. 01:57:11.400 --> 01:57:11.520 Right. 01:57:11.520 --> 01:57:11.840 It is. 01:57:11.900 --> 01:57:14.250 So did you have, did you have some confusion for people 01:57:14.250 --> 01:57:14.840 say, well, hold on Jay. 01:57:15.510 --> 01:57:16.500 It's actually working for me. 01:57:17.100 --> 01:57:19.560 Why should I, why do I need to do this other stuff? 01:57:19.890 --> 01:57:20.100 Jane Pike: Yeah. 01:57:20.100 --> 01:57:22.470 There are definitely people that were a little cross with me. 01:57:22.520 --> 01:57:23.180 Not many. 01:57:23.185 --> 01:57:26.330 I think that what I, I guess. 01:57:27.635 --> 01:57:29.435 I don't know, maybe people just didn't tell me. 01:57:30.215 --> 01:57:30.995 That's another thing. 01:57:31.205 --> 01:57:34.385 The people that talked to me were very nice, but I guess one of the 01:57:34.385 --> 01:57:37.885 things that I have always, how long ago was this, would you say that? 01:57:37.885 --> 01:57:38.565 You, you said Okay. 01:57:38.645 --> 01:57:43.155 I, so probably two or three years ago that I really changed the whole foundation. 01:57:43.245 --> 01:57:43.455 Yeah. 01:57:43.460 --> 01:57:43.545 Okay. 01:57:43.545 --> 01:57:44.415 Quite recently. 01:57:44.420 --> 01:57:44.685 Yeah. 01:57:45.265 --> 01:57:47.785 And I, I took people a, i I gave people a chance. 01:57:47.785 --> 01:57:49.465 Of course, they didn't have to stay with me. 01:57:49.495 --> 01:57:54.235 And it was quite scary because Yeah, I bet, you know, I'm the breadwinner and 01:57:54.625 --> 01:57:59.515 I've created this successful thing, and now it's just so intolerable to me to 01:57:59.520 --> 01:58:01.375 not be in alignment with what I teach. 01:58:01.375 --> 01:58:04.255 I just could, once I knew something different and I was practicing something 01:58:04.255 --> 01:58:07.555 different, I'm like, I can't teach people any different to what I'm doing. 01:58:07.555 --> 01:58:10.015 Like I, that's just, it. 01:58:10.165 --> 01:58:13.735 Just So there was no decision, like it was, well, I guess you were inviting 01:58:13.735 --> 01:58:15.145 'em to go along with the evolution. 01:58:15.150 --> 01:58:19.045 Yes, but not, but nonetheless, that is, that is a brave step. 01:58:19.045 --> 01:58:20.965 Not everybody would, as you said. 01:58:21.025 --> 01:58:21.115 Yes. 01:58:21.115 --> 01:58:25.485 You know, some of the yoga people perhaps that you met were walking one 01:58:25.485 --> 01:58:30.085 talk and walking, one walking, and some things that I teach now are a complete 01:58:30.085 --> 01:58:31.915 180 from what I was doing before. 01:58:32.305 --> 01:58:32.515 Okay. 01:58:32.635 --> 01:58:36.595 And so, but I can say why and, and I think one of the advantages maybe 01:58:36.595 --> 01:58:40.930 that I have within my membership is that, this is an advantage or not. 01:58:41.170 --> 01:58:42.550 I've always been really honest. 01:58:42.580 --> 01:58:48.940 Like I'm just, I, I, I really see myself as adventuring with these, 01:58:49.540 --> 01:58:51.100 this group of incredible people. 01:58:51.105 --> 01:58:52.180 And I don't. 01:58:52.660 --> 01:58:56.830 Discount their opinion or their thoughts, or, it's not like my way or the highway. 01:58:56.830 --> 01:58:59.650 It's just like, this is, this is information. 01:58:59.650 --> 01:59:00.010 Right? 01:59:00.010 --> 01:59:05.220 And one of the things that I've really learned about teaching, and I attempt to 01:59:05.220 --> 01:59:10.111 practice in life to varying with varying degrees of success, is that in order to 01:59:10.116 --> 01:59:12.600 be honest, you have to be willing to lose. 01:59:12.870 --> 01:59:15.840 So I was willing for everyone to leave me. 01:59:16.470 --> 01:59:20.310 I had to be willing for everyone to leave me in order to be able 01:59:20.310 --> 01:59:24.090 to present something new, because if I wasn't willing for people to 01:59:24.090 --> 01:59:25.860 leave, I wouldn't have done it. 01:59:26.250 --> 01:59:30.180 And so I was like, okay, I'm just gonna lay it all on the table. 01:59:30.180 --> 01:59:32.970 And, I don't think hardly anyone left. 01:59:33.060 --> 01:59:36.570 Like, and then it took a while, there was a transition, but I'd already 01:59:36.575 --> 01:59:41.370 been practicing for a good period of time before I started teaching it. 01:59:41.620 --> 01:59:44.530 Because of course, there's a, and that was a really annoying part of the 01:59:44.530 --> 01:59:48.130 practice as well, because coming from someone who's like, okay, gimme the book. 01:59:48.130 --> 01:59:49.060 Give me all the shit. 01:59:49.180 --> 01:59:51.730 I'm gonna sit down for a weekend, and by Monday I'm gonna have this 01:59:51.730 --> 01:59:53.290 nailed, and then I'll teach it. 01:59:53.530 --> 01:59:57.090 It wa it wasn't something that I could, think my way through this 01:59:57.090 --> 02:00:00.831 was a, an unconscious, like I had to have a, a resonance in my body 02:00:00.836 --> 02:00:04.280 and understanding in my body of the process before I could teach it. 02:00:04.730 --> 02:00:07.835 And so that required some practice on my part. 02:00:07.835 --> 02:00:12.095 And then I just said, right, okay, July, we're changing. 02:00:12.155 --> 02:00:13.565 You've got this amount of time. 02:00:13.805 --> 02:00:16.505 And I started to like cross pollinate conversations. 02:00:16.510 --> 02:00:20.795 So to bring in the material in conversation before we taught it. 02:00:20.795 --> 02:00:24.095 And, and then, and then it took a while for people to get into. 02:00:24.095 --> 02:00:24.715 And, yeah. 02:00:25.705 --> 02:00:28.825 Rupert Isaacson: So, so back to the where we began, which is what this 02:00:28.825 --> 02:00:31.645 whole podcast is about, which is about self-actualization of people 02:00:31.645 --> 02:00:36.895 who led self-actualized lives or, and are leading self-actualized lives. 02:00:37.595 --> 02:00:42.395 from the outside observing your, you appear to be self-actualizing. 02:00:42.395 --> 02:00:51.495 What I mean by that, it's, you began with, a problem to fix and a quest to go on. 02:00:52.255 --> 02:00:54.265 Some of it unconscious, some of it conscious. 02:00:55.285 --> 02:00:59.965 And then there were multiple reboots where every time, this is just sort of 02:00:59.965 --> 02:01:04.975 observing the story from the outside, every time you had sort of achieved a 02:01:04.980 --> 02:01:08.725 certain thing in a certain area, whether it was being the good girl school, whether 02:01:08.725 --> 02:01:14.335 it was, the human rights work, whether it was getting a, a mastery of this 02:01:14.455 --> 02:01:17.335 certain aspect of yoga, and then say, actually no, it's this aspect of yoga. 02:01:17.335 --> 02:01:20.425 And then saying, no, actually I'm going back. 02:01:20.835 --> 02:01:24.195 I'm gonna work in retail, but I'm gonna, I'm gonna write. 02:01:24.725 --> 02:01:26.355 And now I'm gonna build that. 02:01:26.360 --> 02:01:27.975 And what a confused individual. 02:01:28.485 --> 02:01:31.345 And meanwhile I'm gonna keep this writing thing going parallel. 02:01:31.345 --> 02:01:35.995 I've achieved a certain mastery sort of showing as a teen and young adult. 02:01:35.995 --> 02:01:39.445 But now moving away from that, I'm gonna move into this other aspect of horseman. 02:01:40.075 --> 02:01:42.295 You haven't really touched on that much, but I'd like to come back 02:01:42.295 --> 02:01:43.795 and do that in the next podcast. 02:01:44.455 --> 02:01:50.805 What, what, what emerges is a picture of growth where it's almost like you 02:01:50.805 --> 02:01:59.715 see, you know, from seedling to sapling to, I'm not suggesting that you're 02:01:59.715 --> 02:02:04.615 a big mature wide tree, but you know what I mean, you know, mighty, mighty. 02:02:05.295 --> 02:02:09.645 But you know, that, that that this maturing process and is so, 02:02:09.650 --> 02:02:13.575 it, it brings into my mind is, is self, is self-actualization. 02:02:14.715 --> 02:02:19.875 In fact, to a large degree maturing and not maturing mean, 02:02:19.880 --> 02:02:23.865 you know, you use growing up, God forbid any of us ever do that. 02:02:23.925 --> 02:02:27.525 And I wonder if the mighty yo, you know, considers itself to be grown up. 02:02:27.530 --> 02:02:30.135 Or it says, actually I still want to be a, I still want to be a 02:02:30.135 --> 02:02:33.105 big grown up tree one day, even though I'm now a hundred foot tall. 02:02:33.105 --> 02:02:33.495 And Yeah. 02:02:33.945 --> 02:02:35.235 is that what goes through trees minds? 02:02:35.235 --> 02:02:42.285 But the, it, it's really interesting to see, you know, people. 02:02:44.385 --> 02:02:47.325 I'd like to come back this, I think that every, a lot of listeners will 02:02:47.325 --> 02:02:49.725 have questions like, well, how did you build the business and how did 02:02:49.725 --> 02:02:52.575 you, you know, what is the secret of success of an online thing? 02:02:52.580 --> 02:02:56.625 And I, and, and I, I'd like to invite people to send those questions 02:02:56.625 --> 02:02:59.715 and we'll have Jane back Gifting your spleen to the universe. 02:02:59.805 --> 02:03:00.255 That's right. 02:03:00.315 --> 02:03:04.095 And, and Jane, we'll explain these things to you and we will have 02:03:04.095 --> 02:03:06.885 another podcast in which you will send these very natural questions. 02:03:06.885 --> 02:03:09.525 And, and Jane will tell you how to make billions on the internet. 02:03:09.975 --> 02:03:13.485 But that's not what you set out to do. 02:03:13.515 --> 02:03:15.285 That's, that's the interesting thing to me. 02:03:15.495 --> 02:03:19.845 You didn't sit down and say, okay, I'm gonna become this super successful 02:03:19.845 --> 02:03:23.415 online business showing people how to get back to their nervous systems in a 02:03:23.415 --> 02:03:24.615 way that's gonna improve their lives. 02:03:24.975 --> 02:03:34.905 It evolved out of a desire to share and write about that, which you 02:03:34.910 --> 02:03:36.825 knew, which you need to be helpful. 02:03:37.725 --> 02:03:43.755 And then from there, you learned some online business skills, which again, yes. 02:03:43.755 --> 02:03:46.275 We, I, I, I, I think we should have you back and it would be 02:03:46.280 --> 02:03:47.895 great to hear how you did that. 02:03:47.955 --> 02:03:49.395 Cause I think that's useful for a lot of people. 02:03:50.445 --> 02:03:54.015 But nonetheless, that doesn't seem to be in the primary motivation. 02:03:54.015 --> 02:03:59.115 It seems that the primary motivation was simply the acquisition 02:03:59.115 --> 02:04:00.165 sharing of this knowledge. 02:04:00.815 --> 02:04:02.715 Would I be right in saying that? 02:04:02.745 --> 02:04:03.555 Jane Pike: Yeah, totally. 02:04:03.555 --> 02:04:06.125 I just had a, an energy to do that. 02:04:06.125 --> 02:04:06.755 Mm-hmm. 02:04:07.385 --> 02:04:07.685 Yeah. 02:04:07.805 --> 02:04:10.435 That was, It's a seeking energy as well. 02:04:10.435 --> 02:04:12.620 Like it's, I talk about intellectual energy. 02:04:12.620 --> 02:04:17.810 I don't know if that's the right word, but like, I love to be considering 02:04:17.810 --> 02:04:22.690 and seeking and finding information and and sharing information. 02:04:22.690 --> 02:04:27.000 For me that was like a very rewarding process. 02:04:27.730 --> 02:04:32.550 It was, to, to do that and to share and to find people finding that useful. 02:04:32.550 --> 02:04:37.500 And like I said, it was, I mean, it was a couple of years before I even considered 02:04:37.500 --> 02:04:42.060 that that was a, anything there was anything financially viable in that. 02:04:42.060 --> 02:04:44.760 I mean, that was kind of a shock to even consider that someone 02:04:44.760 --> 02:04:47.460 would find me useful in a way that they would actually wanna pay me. 02:04:47.460 --> 02:04:50.310 And that wasn't like a, a thought in the beginning. 02:04:50.310 --> 02:04:55.020 And then, you know, the second thing out of that, just from a business perspective, 02:04:55.050 --> 02:05:01.510 cuz I kind of, well without downplaying other people's, experiences, I sort of 02:05:01.510 --> 02:05:05.260 chuckle to myself sometimes when people will email me and they'll like, now 02:05:05.260 --> 02:05:07.660 I've been doing this thing for three months now and I haven't made money. 02:05:07.660 --> 02:05:10.780 I was like, I work for five years without making any money. 02:05:10.785 --> 02:05:15.250 Like, it's like without even, it's just, you know, this kind of, I think the, 02:05:15.280 --> 02:05:20.830 the internet breeds like an instant idea of being able to financially translate 02:05:20.830 --> 02:05:23.110 something into dollars, you know? 02:05:23.210 --> 02:05:26.480 and so not to say that that's gonna be other people's experience, but just to, 02:05:26.900 --> 02:05:29.250 it is, it is sort of difficult to, Yeah. 02:05:29.280 --> 02:05:31.980 To, to put a, I've forgotten the question that you asked me. 02:05:31.980 --> 02:05:32.251 I feel like I, 02:05:32.820 --> 02:05:37.140 Rupert Isaacson: well, it, it's about self-actualization and, and so what, 02:05:37.140 --> 02:05:40.470 what, what comes to mind, maybe I'll pose this question slightly differently. 02:05:40.860 --> 02:05:44.250 Would you say that actually, one of the keys to self-actualization 02:05:44.250 --> 02:05:47.100 is putting what you do in service? 02:05:48.560 --> 02:05:48.850 Jane Pike: Yeah. 02:05:48.850 --> 02:05:50.490 And just being unemployable. 02:05:53.730 --> 02:05:55.620 I think I'm completely unemployable. 02:05:55.620 --> 02:06:00.540 Like the idea of working with someone else is so unacceptable to me that 02:06:00.545 --> 02:06:07.170 like, I, I just, I really loathe and I mean this, like, I really loathe having 02:06:07.230 --> 02:06:09.510 my schedule dictated by someone else. 02:06:09.570 --> 02:06:09.630 Yeah. 02:06:10.170 --> 02:06:11.970 Like the thought of having to get up and go. 02:06:11.970 --> 02:06:14.880 I just, I actually can't think of anything worse. 02:06:14.880 --> 02:06:18.480 Like, I love to be able to go and I work really hard actually, but I decide I'm 02:06:18.480 --> 02:06:21.990 Pick yourself Jane, your your schedule is completely dictated by your kids. 02:06:22.710 --> 02:06:23.290 That's true. 02:06:23.610 --> 02:06:23.851 That's true. 02:06:24.390 --> 02:06:27.540 They're your bosses, but yeah, that's true. 02:06:27.630 --> 02:06:28.020 Yes. 02:06:28.020 --> 02:06:28.350 Yeah. 02:06:28.650 --> 02:06:28.890 Yeah. 02:06:28.890 --> 02:06:33.780 Which is why I've struggled so much in very much I know the feeling. 02:06:34.070 --> 02:06:34.290 Yes. 02:06:34.295 --> 02:06:34.530 Yeah. 02:06:34.920 --> 02:06:37.320 Rupert Isaacson: But it, it seems to me too that that's been the other, 02:06:37.325 --> 02:06:41.770 that's been the other, long, you know, concurrent par, you know, thread 02:06:42.160 --> 02:06:46.130 through the story is that there's been an element of service at each step. 02:06:46.540 --> 02:06:47.080 Oh, totally. 02:06:47.350 --> 02:06:47.640 Yeah. 02:06:47.820 --> 02:06:52.590 And that without that, I wonder if one can self-actualize, because. 02:06:53.835 --> 02:06:59.970 Without that, you know, it, it's interesting, like, is somebody who 02:07:00.690 --> 02:07:06.840 makes an awful lot of money but without an element of service, without 02:07:06.840 --> 02:07:11.430 an element of sharing, without an element of, is that self-actualization? 02:07:11.435 --> 02:07:13.260 You know, that's, that's a question for the listeners. 02:07:13.260 --> 02:07:22.160 I, you know, I wonder, but it seems to me that the, you know, fulfillment must 02:07:22.160 --> 02:07:27.260 come with a feeling of satisfaction that you can't just get from dopamine. 02:07:27.290 --> 02:07:29.120 Haha, I got these zeros in my bank account. 02:07:29.120 --> 02:07:29.300 I got you. 02:07:29.780 --> 02:07:32.660 Well, it, it's gotta come from something richer. 02:07:33.147 --> 02:07:36.177 Well, I think my work, everything about my work is there's a, 02:07:37.587 --> 02:07:39.267 it's reciprocal in nature. 02:07:39.747 --> 02:07:39.867 Mm. 02:07:40.317 --> 02:07:46.487 Like it's, I benefit in the best possible way from my work. 02:07:46.907 --> 02:07:52.227 I benefit from it not only in knowledge and I get to share that knowledge, 02:07:52.607 --> 02:07:56.987 which if anyone has ever taught anything, you know, that you really 02:07:56.987 --> 02:07:58.397 have to know something to teach it. 02:07:58.427 --> 02:08:01.307 Cuz that's shut to show up what you don't know when you start 02:08:01.307 --> 02:08:02.567 to explain it to someone else. 02:08:02.567 --> 02:08:07.257 So there's a, you know, I've always launched myself into sharing knowledge, 02:08:07.257 --> 02:08:11.317 which has forced me to really understand what it is that I am. 02:08:12.057 --> 02:08:16.662 Sharing because, that process of like, you know, learn, do, teach, 02:08:16.872 --> 02:08:19.122 I, I, I activate very quickly. 02:08:19.452 --> 02:08:24.582 But beyond that, I, I have an incredible community of people that I work with. 02:08:24.942 --> 02:08:30.702 and I include my horses within that, and they save me many times. 02:08:30.762 --> 02:08:31.572 They save me. 02:08:31.692 --> 02:08:37.452 You know, I, on tough days or hard days that we all have, I, I still show 02:08:37.457 --> 02:08:41.682 up and I feel different after I've taught than I do at the beginning. 02:08:41.682 --> 02:08:44.292 And that's because it's not just me, right? 02:08:44.292 --> 02:08:50.382 Like it's an energetic exchange and, I feel equally valued and hopefully they 02:08:50.382 --> 02:08:56.622 feel valued and loved and appreciated and respected, as part of the process as well. 02:08:56.627 --> 02:09:00.042 And I think that that's, you know, that kind of experience is 02:09:00.047 --> 02:09:04.332 not something that you would ever gain by just selling a product. 02:09:04.572 --> 02:09:07.852 For me it's, you know, there's a couple of questions that I get asked, which is like, 02:09:07.852 --> 02:09:09.922 how do I get to do what you are doing? 02:09:10.252 --> 02:09:11.632 And I'm like, I've got no idea. 02:09:11.637 --> 02:09:15.052 Because so much of what I'm doing has been informed by my life experience. 02:09:15.052 --> 02:09:19.042 It's not so much just about like, sure, you can learn these things, you can 02:09:19.042 --> 02:09:23.482 study with these people and you can do that, but it's not quite just that. 02:09:23.662 --> 02:09:24.292 So I don't know. 02:09:24.292 --> 02:09:27.802 You kind of, you have to do you, which is like the, You know, a, a bit of a 02:09:27.802 --> 02:09:32.482 hard statement to say, but as well, you know, there's also a idea of passive 02:09:32.482 --> 02:09:35.212 income and of like floating off on the island and that sort of thing. 02:09:35.212 --> 02:09:38.302 And on the one hand, some days that sounds very, very appealing. 02:09:38.462 --> 02:09:42.462 But actually, ultimately when it comes down to it, I'm not really interested 02:09:42.467 --> 02:09:48.582 in just like the, the, the success in whatever way that has manifested, I 02:09:48.582 --> 02:09:50.652 believe comes through the connection. 02:09:51.862 --> 02:09:58.592 Having, seen your joy ride community in action, I was lucky 02:09:58.597 --> 02:10:00.752 enough to meet some of them. 02:10:01.652 --> 02:10:06.152 I can definitely attest to that. 02:10:06.152 --> 02:10:12.692 It seems an unusually mutually supportive, very incredible. 02:10:12.697 --> 02:10:16.142 Like, it's not like, you know, someone, someone going online to do multi-level 02:10:16.147 --> 02:10:17.072 marketing or something like that. 02:10:17.077 --> 02:10:20.522 Not necessarily anything wrong with that, but you know, you know why, you 02:10:20.522 --> 02:10:21.842 know why you're getting into that. 02:10:21.842 --> 02:10:24.812 You, I, I wanna go and I wouldn't sold these products in order to 02:10:24.812 --> 02:10:26.672 make money so I can get free. 02:10:26.672 --> 02:10:29.942 And, but really what people are saying I feel, I feel when they're going into 02:10:29.942 --> 02:10:31.832 those things is, yes, I want to be free. 02:10:32.162 --> 02:10:34.592 I feel that the money will make me free. 02:10:35.522 --> 02:10:40.322 You have achieved that freedom and to a large degree that it, 02:10:40.342 --> 02:10:43.532 that is also financial money does give one of these choices. 02:10:44.732 --> 02:10:45.812 Obviously you didn't start there, 02:10:46.306 --> 02:10:51.061 but I do wonder if, Those who are trying to go into an online business like yours 02:10:51.631 --> 02:10:59.101 with the idea of making money as the primary goal, even if they were to achieve 02:10:59.101 --> 02:11:02.011 that, would they feel self actualized? 02:11:02.011 --> 02:11:02.641 Would they feel, 02:11:04.591 --> 02:11:07.221 Jane Pike: I, I wonder if that's enough for what it takes, 02:11:08.381 --> 02:11:10.011 you know, for the longevity. 02:11:10.011 --> 02:11:15.441 I wonder if that's enough because it's, it's a lot of work. 02:11:15.541 --> 02:11:16.951 Not to say that people are work shy. 02:11:16.956 --> 02:11:18.451 It's definitely a lot of work. 02:11:18.451 --> 02:11:20.791 Like I, I work a lot. 02:11:21.991 --> 02:11:25.141 And so you are doing live sessions with people all the time. 02:11:25.141 --> 02:11:26.101 On, on, on, yeah. 02:11:26.101 --> 02:11:26.402 All the time. 02:11:26.791 --> 02:11:27.381 And then making content. 02:11:27.781 --> 02:11:28.081 Yeah. 02:11:28.081 --> 02:11:28.531 Yeah. 02:11:28.531 --> 02:11:28.532 Right. 02:11:28.591 --> 02:11:28.921 Yeah. 02:11:29.191 --> 02:11:31.171 On, on the daily Most, for the most part. 02:11:31.171 --> 02:11:32.971 And then, you know, there's hours, right? 02:11:33.211 --> 02:11:33.601 Yeah. 02:11:33.661 --> 02:11:36.121 There's lots of other things that come into it, but, and 02:11:36.126 --> 02:11:37.501 I mean, maybe it's enough. 02:11:37.531 --> 02:11:39.301 Maybe it's enough to keep going. 02:11:39.301 --> 02:11:44.411 But for me, I, I mean, I don't even know how much money I earn. 02:11:44.621 --> 02:11:45.341 I've got no idea. 02:11:45.571 --> 02:11:47.981 I mean, I don't mean that to sound like I don't even know how much money I own. 02:11:47.981 --> 02:11:52.411 Like I have enough to like, but, but I don't, I don't look at the Yeah, I don't, 02:11:52.441 --> 02:11:53.891 it's not the, you're not keeping score. 02:11:54.921 --> 02:11:55.141 No. 02:11:55.301 --> 02:11:58.901 And I guess that's a privilege because there must be enough coming in to not 02:11:58.901 --> 02:12:03.371 have to keep score to know that I can pay the bills each month, which is a thing. 02:12:04.196 --> 02:12:07.526 But yeah, it's not like, ooh, like it's, it's, it's just 02:12:07.526 --> 02:12:08.936 like I would keep doing it. 02:12:08.936 --> 02:12:12.956 Even if 10 people, five people, I, I dunno what else I would do. 02:12:13.046 --> 02:12:16.616 Like I, if someone said to me, you know, and, and occasionally you get 02:12:16.616 --> 02:12:18.916 used to this question like, what would you do if you won the lottery? 02:12:20.426 --> 02:12:23.007 It's like, well actually, I'd, I'd be doing the same thing. 02:12:23.306 --> 02:12:25.136 I, I would be doing the same thing. 02:12:25.406 --> 02:12:27.056 I'd probably have an indoor arena 02:12:30.596 --> 02:12:34.426 and there would be a few tweaks, but, but you know, as far as like where 02:12:34.426 --> 02:12:38.206 my life energy is being invested, I would be doing the same thing. 02:12:38.686 --> 02:12:38.836 Yeah. 02:12:39.016 --> 02:12:43.116 Just with like a really, really freaking nice saddle or something else like that. 02:12:43.176 --> 02:12:47.416 But like, yeah, like, I'm not gonna deny things, but Yeah. 02:12:47.421 --> 02:12:49.156 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 02:12:49.156 --> 02:12:50.866 But you, you're, you're doing that which you love. 02:12:52.006 --> 02:12:52.306 Rupert Isaacson: Yeah. 02:12:52.756 --> 02:12:56.606 Well, with that, I mean, we, we we're at two and a half hours here and, there's, 02:12:56.956 --> 02:12:58.336 there's more that we could go into. 02:12:58.336 --> 02:13:02.356 And I think, so one of the things that I promised the, the, the Liberty rivalry 02:13:02.356 --> 02:13:07.126 listeners is that we then will have each person back to answer the questions. 02:13:07.786 --> 02:13:08.566 Oh, I'm sorry about that. 02:13:09.796 --> 02:13:10.246 Throw in. 02:13:10.246 --> 02:13:14.481 So would you, would you, would you consent to come back and, absolutely. 02:13:15.431 --> 02:13:15.641 Yeah. 02:13:16.031 --> 02:13:19.101 So let's have them listeners, send in your questions to Jane. 02:13:19.331 --> 02:13:20.381 She's a wealth of knowledge. 02:13:21.231 --> 02:13:22.666 It can be on the, how did you do it? 02:13:23.086 --> 02:13:24.946 It can be on the how, on the, what do you do? 02:13:25.246 --> 02:13:26.896 It could be on the, tell me more about that. 02:13:26.901 --> 02:13:28.246 Parasympathetic or sympathetic. 02:13:28.876 --> 02:13:30.226 Tell me more about those body maps. 02:13:30.696 --> 02:13:32.916 Jane, turned me onto a book. 02:13:33.186 --> 02:13:34.926 Is it The Body Has A Mind of Its Own? 02:13:35.276 --> 02:13:36.126 Yes, yes. 02:13:36.576 --> 02:13:41.636 About body maps and, brain maps, which even though I thought I 02:13:41.636 --> 02:13:44.216 knew quite a lot about the nervous system, I realized I didn't. 02:13:44.456 --> 02:13:46.926 And it was fascinating. 02:13:47.046 --> 02:13:49.866 And there's much, much, much more to learn. 02:13:49.866 --> 02:13:53.796 And I think next time we come back, Jane, I want to talk to you 02:13:53.796 --> 02:13:57.066 in more detail about that because now we've sort of had your story. 02:13:57.756 --> 02:14:00.737 I'd like to go into more depth about this, with 02:14:00.976 --> 02:14:03.376 Jane Pike: Yeah, I'm, I'm happy to answer questions on anything. 02:14:03.376 --> 02:14:06.076 Like there's really No, because it's helpful. 02:14:06.076 --> 02:14:09.016 Rupert Isaacson: I, I, I think a lot of us walk around in a state of 02:14:09.021 --> 02:14:11.296 anxiety and we don't even know why. 02:14:11.386 --> 02:14:13.936 You know, I, I think, I think that that's one of the, one of 02:14:13.936 --> 02:14:15.046 the symptoms of the modern age. 02:14:15.051 --> 02:14:15.406 Hold on. 02:14:15.406 --> 02:14:16.366 You know, my life's good. 02:14:16.366 --> 02:14:17.206 I've got a nice job. 02:14:17.626 --> 02:14:19.876 I, you know, I've got enough to eat, blah, blah, blah. 02:14:19.876 --> 02:14:19.877 Why? 02:14:19.882 --> 02:14:21.166 Why do I feel so shit? 02:14:21.806 --> 02:14:28.176 And I think that this is a question at the heart of our, our 02:14:28.226 --> 02:14:30.296 societal experience at the moment. 02:14:31.046 --> 02:14:35.306 We've never had it so good, really as a species, and yet we seem to 02:14:35.306 --> 02:14:36.656 have never been quite so unhappy. 02:14:37.316 --> 02:14:37.676 Yeah. 02:14:37.896 --> 02:14:38.316 Why is that? 02:14:38.316 --> 02:14:43.136 Jane Pike: And I think as well, like one of the, platform that's not as 02:14:43.136 --> 02:14:45.026 openly or often discussed in this. 02:14:45.771 --> 02:14:48.866 I doubt it goes outside what you wanna talk about here, but maybe it does, but 02:14:48.866 --> 02:14:51.506 I'll throw it in here and we can always talk about it somewhere else as well. 02:14:51.506 --> 02:14:55.376 It's just like that, you know, you and me have done those vitality 02:14:55.376 --> 02:14:59.366 workshops together as well, and like discussed what that means or what that 02:14:59.366 --> 02:15:02.516 looks like to live in a vital way. 02:15:02.666 --> 02:15:11.156 And, to me, the essence of what I was attempting to escape from, I think 02:15:11.156 --> 02:15:14.576 with a lot of the yoga practices, just me personally, like, again, I don't 02:15:14.581 --> 02:15:18.936 wanna paint a brush, but like, is really common for people's experiences. 02:15:18.941 --> 02:15:23.176 You know, like the, the, the struggles that we have with like ourselves, 02:15:23.616 --> 02:15:26.706 our relationship to ourselves, our relationship to others, our relationship 02:15:26.706 --> 02:15:31.116 to intimacy, our relationship to sexual expression, our relationship 02:15:31.116 --> 02:15:34.756 to passion, all of those things like really, all the difficult stuff. 02:15:34.756 --> 02:15:35.776 We separate them. 02:15:35.781 --> 02:15:39.226 Yeah, we separate them, but then they're, they're not separate. 02:15:39.281 --> 02:15:44.051 And yet it's still kind of a little bit taboo when we talk about this type of, 02:15:44.591 --> 02:15:48.371 these types of conversations or just not as openly discussed or talked about. 02:15:48.371 --> 02:15:50.951 And so that's really interesting to me as well. 02:15:51.131 --> 02:15:54.011 I mean, I get lots of, get lots of, it's not quite the right word. 02:15:54.211 --> 02:15:57.821 I, I have the honor of working with a lot of women in my program that are. 02:15:58.266 --> 02:16:01.566 In their seventies or in their sixties, and they got married very 02:16:01.566 --> 02:16:05.586 young and it's like they have one foot in a time where women's rights 02:16:05.586 --> 02:16:07.266 and expectations were very different. 02:16:07.266 --> 02:16:11.736 And another foot in this modern era where they recognize and see all these 02:16:11.736 --> 02:16:13.176 different opportunities around them. 02:16:13.176 --> 02:16:16.346 And, and perhaps they've changed and their husband hasn't or like, 02:16:16.646 --> 02:16:19.206 you know, and how to negotiate that. 02:16:19.206 --> 02:16:21.966 All of the, when we talk about self-actualization, and I feel 02:16:21.966 --> 02:16:26.226 like there's a lot of people in this like transition point both 02:16:26.226 --> 02:16:29.526 in time and both physiologically and both mentally and emotionally. 02:16:29.526 --> 02:16:32.906 That means that they're kind of a little bit at war with themselves. 02:16:33.326 --> 02:16:36.586 And yeah, that being of a sort of inner schizophrenia almost. 02:16:36.856 --> 02:16:38.896 Yeah, this's just a really interesting point. 02:16:38.896 --> 02:16:42.226 I just wanted to throw that in there alongside the nervous system 02:16:42.226 --> 02:16:44.236 stuff and alongside the other stuff. 02:16:44.266 --> 02:16:44.926 Cause it's interesting. 02:16:44.926 --> 02:16:47.871 Rupert Isaacson: Well, if you, so, listeners, if you're, if you are, if 02:16:47.871 --> 02:16:52.491 you got that, you've got that inner conflict, send us in the questions. 02:16:52.491 --> 02:16:53.601 What do I do about it? 02:16:53.601 --> 02:16:54.141 Please, Jane. 02:16:54.231 --> 02:16:55.101 Jane will sort you out. 02:16:55.946 --> 02:16:58.606 Tell, tell us how people can contact you and where they can find you. 02:16:59.266 --> 02:17:00.556 Jane Pike: Well, you can send love. 02:17:00.556 --> 02:17:04.276 You can just sit there and send really good vibes all the way through 02:17:04.756 --> 02:17:06.106 and it'll be happily received. 02:17:06.346 --> 02:17:09.826 But if you do wanna directly contact me, you can jump on my website. 02:17:09.831 --> 02:17:13.036 Confident writer.online is the best place to find me. 02:17:13.306 --> 02:17:15.348 And I'm on, on the socials as well. 02:17:15.766 --> 02:17:19.156 Or you can email me Jane competent writer.online and, 02:17:19.256 --> 02:17:21.566 Jane Confident writer.online. 02:17:21.926 --> 02:17:22.286 Yeah. 02:17:22.286 --> 02:17:23.996 And I will merely online reply. 02:17:24.416 --> 02:17:24.776 Yeah. 02:17:24.956 --> 02:17:26.006 Give me a few days. 02:17:26.006 --> 02:17:31.196 Sometimes I'm a little behind on emails, but it's not personal. 02:17:32.686 --> 02:17:33.046 yeah. 02:17:33.106 --> 02:17:35.686 So that, that would be amazing to hear from people. 02:17:36.076 --> 02:17:36.466 Rupert Isaacson: Okay. 02:17:37.276 --> 02:17:39.726 Well then, I can't wait till we can have you back. 02:17:40.086 --> 02:17:44.466 Jane, thanks so much for such a pleasure gracing us with 02:17:44.466 --> 02:17:46.446 your story and your wisdom. 02:17:47.146 --> 02:17:47.816 Happy me. 02:17:49.526 --> 02:17:54.656 For those of you, who want to hear more, we'll be having Jane back, to hear 02:17:54.656 --> 02:18:00.856 our other podcast on equine assisted, interventions, equine Assisted World. 02:18:01.516 --> 02:18:06.406 go to us@longridehome.com and if you're interested in the work we 02:18:06.406 --> 02:18:11.156 do with Autism, the Brain, and all the other stuff, ntls.co. 02:18:11.246 --> 02:18:13.166 Neutra, Neutra Learning Systems co. 02:18:14.519 --> 02:18:18.033 Send your your questions to Jane, but do bother with me to send the questions 02:18:18.033 --> 02:18:19.713 so that I can ask them of Jane. 02:18:19.713 --> 02:18:23.463 So please send the questions, say, I've got these questions for Jane. 02:18:23.823 --> 02:18:24.423 How'd you do it? 02:18:24.543 --> 02:18:25.053 Blah, blah, blah. 02:18:25.263 --> 02:18:27.093 And then we can have her back and she can tell us. 02:18:28.353 --> 02:18:29.823 All right, Jane, thank you so much. 02:18:30.543 --> 02:18:31.283 Thank you so much. 02:18:32.103 --> 02:18:33.033 All right, see you next time. 02:18:33.553 --> 02:18:34.323 Okay, bye. 02:18:34.703 --> 02:18:34.923 Bye. 02:18:35.284 --> 02:18:36.394 Thank you for joining us. 02:18:36.424 --> 02:18:38.254 We hope you enjoyed today's podcast. 02:18:38.492 --> 02:18:43.532 Join our website, new trails learning.com, to check out our online 02:18:43.532 --> 02:18:48.722 courses and live workshops in Horse Boy Method, movement Method, and Athena. 02:18:49.430 --> 02:18:54.078 These evidence-based programs have helped children, veterans, and people 02:18:54.078 --> 02:18:56.088 dealing with trauma around the world. 02:18:56.415 --> 02:19:00.165 We also offer a horse training program and self-care program 02:19:00.165 --> 02:19:03.405 for riders on long ride home.com. 02:19:03.704 --> 02:19:07.754 These include easy to do online courses and tutorials that 02:19:07.754 --> 02:19:09.674 bring you and your horse joy. 02:19:10.210 --> 02:19:14.770 For an overview of all shows and programs, go to rupert isaacson.com. 02:19:15.100 --> 02:19:16.030 See you on the next show. 02:19:16.443 --> 02:19:19.133 And please remember to press, subscribe and share.