Rupert Isaacson: Welcome to Live Free Ride Free, where we talk to people who
have lived self-actualized lives on their own terms, and find out how they
got there, what they do, how we can get there, what we can learn from them.
How to live our best lives, find our own definition of success,
and most importantly, find joy.
I'm your host, Rupert Isaacson.
New York Times bestselling author of the Horse Boy.
Founder of New Trails Learning Systems and long ride home.com.
You can find details of all our programs and shows on Rupert isaacson.com.
Welcome back to Live Free, ride Free, where we talk to people who live
self-actualized lives and find out how they did it and how they still do
it, and what can we learn from them.
What's the true meaning of success?
What's the true meaning of fulfillment?
Is it money?
Is it career?
Is it how you feel inside?
Is it your creativity?
Is it all of the above?
Is it none of the above?
What does it mean to you?
So we have the amazing, by any standards, Jane Pike, with us
tonight, who is jolly interesting.
Why is Jane Pike jolly interesting?
Well, Jane Pike was an early pioneer of, the online membership, equestrian
learn to train your horse or learn to ride better type stuff That came
out a few years ago on the internet.
And, many, many, many people have done this.
I myself have signed up for quite a few of these things because hey,
it's always good to learn something.
And I know some people who've certainly made money at it.
I don't know many people who have managed to both be economically
successful at it and also genuinely help people out and also do it from
a perspective that is neurological.
showing people how to really access what's in their bodies, the sort of
wisdom of the nervous system, in a way that goes far transcends horses.
she's also a poet but she don't know it.
but you'll soon know it.
cuz there'll be something published quite soon and she's sort of all around awesome.
and she very definitely lives life on her own terms down there on the
south island of New Zealand when she's not traveling all over the world.
And so I feel that we could tap into some Jane Pike wisdom about
how do you do something like this?
How do you become financially, creatively, independent like this
and live in this extraordinary place and help people out all over the
world and still sort of remain cool.
So, without further ado, welcome Jane Pike.
Jane Pike: Thank you.
That was a bit of, that was the loveliest introduction I've ever, ever had.
And the, the stay cool bit is questionable, but we'll, we'll
Rupert Isaacson: see how we will Well it's, it's, it's nothing but the truth.
and, and there are many people who'll be listening right now
who are, followers of Jpi.
Jpi has a website called confident Writer Do com and a online Do com online.
Sorry.
Good lord.
Jane Pike: I did No, that's alright.
By the early pioneers and we'll just buy all
Rupert Isaacson: writer names.
Yeah.
Online.
I'll say it three times cuz if what, what I said three times is true Confident
writer.online, confident writer, do online Confident writer.online.
And her joyride program has thousands of people around the world.
And I'm always running into people go, oh, I'm a Jerry Penk,
so let's find out why they are.
so Jane Pipe,
Jane Pike: who are you?
Who am I?
in what sense?
In what sense should we begin the who I who, who are you conversation?
Rupert Isaacson: Well, you could begin it in the, physical sense as in I am
this person who lives here and does this.
Yes.
You could begin it in the esoteric sense of I was once this person who lived there
and did that, but then returned to source and came back as a, as a flee and then
went through my reincarnation cycles.
Or you could just tell us who you are.
Jane Pike: Yeah.
Well, I, I am Jane.
I'm Jane.
Thank you for having me here.
At the moment, I live in a little corner of the south island of New Zealand,
and I wasn't born here originally.
I was born in Australia.
but my travels took me to New Zealand when I was in my late teens, actually, which
is kind of a funny story because, one of my best friends from school, Claire,
we wanted to travel after we'd done a period of study and we wanted to go to
Asia and we went to the travel agent and said, this is where we wanna go.
And they were like, oh, well that's holiday time.
It's all booked out.
And she said, but what about New Zealand?
And both of us went, oh, New Zealand, why would we wanna go there?
It's just like Australia.
That was kinda our thought, at the time in our ignorant Australian mindset.
but then because we both wanted to get out of the country, we
were like, oh, okay, let's go.
And so we hired a little car and drove around the, south island
of New Zealand for two weeks, and I instantly fell in love with it.
and then we were, we decided, at that point that after the next semester
of university that we would come back and do a longest in over the summer.
and Claire pulled out on that longest stint and I decided to come by myself,
and then I just didn't go home, basically.
so that was my,
Rupert Isaacson: this was in your late and now.
You, you at this point, you know, we're fast forwarding to your current career.
So you've got this hyper successful online, business doing
equestrianism and the nervous system, the human nervous system.
I presume you weren't doing that in your early teens.
In your late teens, but no, what was the groundwork?
What were you doing then that's led to that?
Led to now?
Jane Pike: Oh my goodness, that's like a lot of territory.
a lot of territory to cover that's think we're doing so late podcast.
When I think about it, late teens is probably an inaccurate, it
would've been very early twenties.
I'm, I'm my, I'm time morphing now in my mind.
But, what led to it?
a period of massive indecision and not knowing what to do with my
life for like 10 years probably.
But, I, my start point was I was very academic at school.
and I was one of those people that had a very clear idea of what
I was going to do with my life.
I was like, right, I'm gonna tickle of these boxes and I'm
going to come out of school.
And I got a scholarship to Sydney University for Communications Law.
and I knew that at that point I had to,
Rupert Isaacson: get a specific Carlie Min Oak's lawyer
Jane Pike: to get a specific score at school.
And so my whole.
Like life literally was oriented around study and getting this
score that I needed to get, to get into the course that I wanted.
and they were very selective.
It was like, at that stage, the way that the school system worked, you took, you
took your best five subjects out of like a series of subjects that you were doing,
and each of those subjects had a score out of 20, and I had to get over 96 out of a
hundred overall to get the scholarship.
, and so that's what happened.
And so, so I got into, I got into this degree, this double degree, and I, I went
from a, a little town in rural Tasmania at that point, to, to the center of Sydney.
And, I had like an apartment and it was like a, a complete
shock to the nervous system.
And I just remember sitting there a few weeks in thinking, what am I doing here?
I was kind of like desperately homesick.
And I also had this very clear.
I don't know if you'd call it vision, but just sense of what the end of that
particular period of study would most probably look like, which is me sitting
in an office, sorting through paperwork, climbing my way up this chain of like,
whatever it is I need to climb up to get, to whatever position that I wanted to be.
And I just thought, I just, this is just not gonna make me happy.
I was like, this is, this is not gonna
Rupert Isaacson: make happen.
How long did it take you to make, to come to that realization?
Jane Pike: About four weeks.
Okay.
Rupert Isaacson: And so I remember pleading with, well,
Jane Pike: expedited process.
That's good.
Yeah.
I remember pleading with my parents and being like, can I
just, I just wanna come home.
And they were like, stay till the end of this, you know, period.
Get it sorted, go and see the counselor.
We think you're just homesick and all of these things.
And in the end I had like a little, Mitsubishi cult, which was like a
little red snotty car that, was probably questionably roadworthy.
And I just packed it up to the ceiling and drove, three states across Australia home.
And that was the end of, of that particular, moment in my life and also the
end of clarity, for what I was gonna do.
And then it just became like a hotchpotch for the next sort of,
Rupert Isaacson: but look at you now.
You've got, you've got nervous system expertise, which we're gonna dive into
because if you're listening, you do want to know some of the things that
Jane knows about your nervous system.
They're useful.
Mm-hmm.
and horses.
So where do
the horses come in?
Jane Pike: So my mom was and is a passionate horse woman.
and I had horses from the moment that I was born.
She had horses.
And I think it was a huge convenience that I happened to be interested in
what she was into, because I think if I hadn't been, I, I, I, I think I
just would've had no option basically.
So it was just kind of handy.
and she had a, a horse called Icon who was a Arab Cross, something, something
cross something, something that was, she had him since she was, he was a two year
old and he, he actually only relatively recently passed away in his forties.
So she had him literally his whole life.
And she used to ride all of the time.
And I've got photos of me plunked up on, on Icon from a very early age.
And then when I was about five, my dad said to me, come with me.
You're gonna come, come, we're gonna go for a walk.
And the, the area that we lived there was a, a road that led up to like the
end of a, a bush track or a clearing.
And mom rode this pony from a friend's house that instantly she had
got him from through the clearing.
And that was captain who was gonna be my.
Who was my pony, basically.
and he was rescued out of a bramble bush, on the side of the road in
kind of slightly dilapidated state and had been, brought back to health.
And now I had this like black, wild main, unidentified breeding
pony that was, that was mine.
And we, we were very fortunate at the time, that the area that we
were in was surrounded by farmland.
And the farmer also bred riding ponies on the side.
And so he was horse horse friendly and let us ride.
Overall his paddocks, which was sort of about 500 acres and very like hill,
massive h you know, hills and bush and rivers and all those sorts of things.
So I just used to take off on captain and like, ride around the, the paddocks.
And what was really glorious about it looking back was my lack of,
Just self-consciousness about that experience because he was
like a very wild looking pony.
But I used to take him in all the competitions with all the fancy ponies
that were all platted up, and I had no clue that I was like, completely
inappropriate for that setting.
I'd just be like, tering round, like, and both of our hair would
be going all over the place.
And all my, you know, I just didn't have the, didn't have the gear.
I was the opposite of all the gear and no idea.
I was like, no gear and no idea.
But it was, it was pretty fun.
Yeah.
And mum used to come writing as well,
Rupert Isaacson: with did at some point the gear and the ideas come together.
So did you and, and mum sort of get the showing thing together
and then end up sort of killing it in the shows at a certain point?
Yeah, my sister.
How, how'd that happen?
Jane Pike: My sister as well.
Well, I, I don't know.
I think that, Like it really is this unclear in my mind about what made
that decision come for my mom and dad.
But, they were both competitive runners.
and so that's how they met my mom was one of the first, was, was the first women,
woman to run competitively in Australia.
She came over on like the $2 ticket from the UK and there were
no races for women at that point.
So she started running with the men and she beat them.
and they were very put out about that, which c created some
women's races in Australia.
And so she was running the five and 10,000 meters and my dad was a sprinter and
so, they met and hit it off obviously.
And I think that why I mentioned that was because they had like a competitive
streak in them that , maybe when I was flying around with like main flying in
the wind and they saw these other people and they saw how into it I was, they
thought maybe there would be a possibility for me to take it a little bit further.
And so, or maybe they just couldn't stand it and they wanted to do better.
And so they brought me, they brought me a pony called Mini, who was a writing
pony and she was, amazing actually.
And I was just, I just remember being shocked cuz I went from like, I.
This little bush pony to like this quite fancy little, other pony.
You had lots of issues at the time.
It's so funny.
Retrospectively looking back where, you know, like she was very cold backed and
had issues that I would now treat from, from a variety of perspectives like
Rupert Isaacson: body wear, those who, who are not horsey.
Cold back means your lighties get back, bucked
Jane Pike: off when you Yeah.
So I used to like leap on and then there would be like a moment where
you'd go around the arena like two or three times and that was just standard.
Like my parents never used to think anything of it, which is so weird
because now if I put my child on a pony like that, I wouldn't do it.
But it was just like, oh yeah, she's fine.
You just need to sort of get through that first part.
so that's what we did and she progressively got better and better.
She was quite young when I got her.
and so we had quite a successful showing career together and and I had sort of
lots of other horses in between that were part of what I just did my whole life.
I just used to get up before school and ride and I rode after school and
I mucked out stables and did the whole works and, that was my life pretty much.
Yeah.
Rupert Isaacson: So you, you're in obsessive perfectionist,
competitive horsey family.
You are out there showing and
Jane Pike: Well, that, that's a strong label, Rupert, it's a strong label.
Rupert Isaacson: and then you decide to go off to university
to become Carlie minnow's lawyer.
Decide that
Jane Pike: that might be, but I actually wanted to be a journalist.
That was my, my true passion.
But, they offered like a double degree.
And so it was like, oh, why not?
Like, that was just my thought.
Why not?
Rupert Isaacson: yeah.
Then four weeks into that out of Tasmania, you decide, no, this is awful.
I need to get back home.
Yes.
and then you say, that was the end of clarity.
So knowing you now you are, you seem pretty clear.
I see you mentoring people on how to run businesses.
I see you mentoring people on how to do online stuff.
I see you mentoring people on how do you get their nervous
systems together and so on.
So what if you say that non clarity hit you?
how long did it hit you for and where did it lead you?
What, 20 years.
Okay.
That's good.
That's a good minimum.
Jane Pike: I'm sorry.
No, no, not quite that long, but I'm, I'm, I'm joking, but I'm
Rupert Isaacson: not joking.
We get to my 20 years.
It's sort of Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Only 20
Jane Pike: years.
You know, it's like clarity is an interesting word, isn't it?
Because, I had been trained into an expectation of what I
should do when I left school.
And a smart person, who does well at school, you know, this is sort of the
labels that, I did well at school because I was so afraid of not doing well.
You know, from the point of like letting people down or getting in.
It wasn't motivated from a place of like, wow, learning's amazing.
Let's like make the most of this.
It was like, if I don't do this, I'm gonna disappoint someone.
Yeah.
And if I, if I, I don't wanna disappoint someone.
I don't wanna get in trouble.
I, I, I don't know that I learned this.
It's a lot of us, isn't it?
Yeah.
I don't know that I learned as much as I really was good at playing the game.
Mm-hmm.
I'm like, okay, I know what you need for this exam, and I will
learn exactly what you need.
I will predict the questions, and when I get there, I will spew out everything I
know and that will get me a perfect score.
Which is true.
Like, I, I was, I was smart in that I could decipher what was
required of me, and I could predict it and, and I gave it to them.
It's, it's different from learning, you know, because now I couldn't necessarily,
think back to what it is that I learn and, and tell you with passion.
I just knew that.
In this particular area of study like history or English or that,
this is probably the question that they're gonna ask me based on what
we've studied or one of these.
And so literally if I write the essay beforehand and I memorize it, I can
change the introduction and I can change the conclusion around the question and I
will just give you what you wanna hear.
And that's what I did.
and so I think that that brought me success at school.
and so when I stepped outside of that and all of a sudden the framework
that was comfortable to me, which was, here are my friends, here is
this institution, here is this place that I know, what the rules are.
And I notice, you know, the wider world.
I notice that actually for the first time, like, well,
shit, this is actually my life.
This isn't like getting to the next stage of like 17 or 18.
This is like where I'm supposed to sit when I'm 40 or 50 or 60 or 70.
Like, and is that what I want?
I think I've always had that little spark in me thinking about that.
And I just, it rebelled at the, at the, at that moment.
And and then it threw me into a huge amount of conclusion, confusion
because I became somewhat of the joke.
And this was a bit of a ego bruise because, but I was the
person that if my friends.
Were like, oh, who's gonna make it or who's gonna do the thing?
They'd be like, oh, Jane, Jane will do it.
Like she's, she'll do it.
And then all of a sudden I was the one blanking out of university,
and I was the one trying a million different things and going to these
crazy places, and it became a thing of like, oh, Jane's doing another thing.
Or Jane's like, oh, Jane's doing this now.
And it was, it was very challenging for me to take, I'm sure in some ways
they meant it lovingly and, and that, or they didn't mean anything by it.
But for me, who had created a lot of my identity, I think, and value around
academic success, it was a lot.
Like, I, I really was wobbling inside with that.
and did wobble for the next sort of 10 years, even though retrospectively
I did a lot of stuff, which people would think was very cool.
And I think on reflection, I, I can see how it was, I, I know at the time
I probably didn't get the most out of it because I just really struggled with
who I was at that point and where it was
Rupert Isaacson: going.
So, talk us through these wilderness years.
We know that at a certain point, you had a look at New Zealand and have ended up
there, but there's more so, so, so, so you, you, you come back from Tasmania,
you're thinking, oh God, what do I do?
yeah, my identity's been right.
What happens?
Jane Pike: Where do you go?
Yeah, I just rack up some student debt, like trying lots of different things
that I never finish and have some kind of like financial, obligation
to, which was, you know, as an adult I wouldn't do that, but at the time
it just didn't really occur to me.
Yeah, it didn't really occur to me that that was gonna be a thing.
and I did study, health science and got into sort of naturopathy and
herbal medicine as part of that, which was the beginnings I think, of, of
leading to where it is that I am now.
Rupert Isaacson: What led you from, from being journalist and wanting to
be, Hugh Jackson and Kylie Menino lawyer to Herbs and her, I I had You
always had a bit of a yen that way or?
Jane Pike: Yeah, I think so.
I think so.
And there was a few, kind of key incidents in here, which, now again
retrospectively I see that fe have fed into what it is that I'm doing now.
So one of the big life changers at that point was that my parents moved from
where we'd always lived from my like duration of sort of 10 to 19, to Victoria,
which is in, on mainland Australia.
So we'd lived in Tasmania up until that point.
And, I moved over as well.
I, I, lived on a different property to them with my horses, and just had
a really, really hard time with like isolation and and kind of venturing
out into the adult world in a way that perhaps wasn't the most ideal
transition in that I moved to somewhere where I didn't know anyone, where I
was very isolated with the horses.
My parents were coming six months later, so my family wasn't there yet and it
was just like this, I think health-wise that really started to knock me around.
And again, looking back, I dunno why that was a supportive decision, but again,
it's just a different time, isn't it, when you just do different things than
what it is you do for your own kids now.
But the reason that this is relevant is because, at that stage I was
really suffering health-wise.
I had like a lot of different back issues, which I'd had my entire teens,
like to the point where my back would just burn and I couldn't escape, the
pain that I was feeling in my back.
And, I had a lot of anxiety.
There was, that was definitely a feature.
I would say I was a very imbalanced human at that moment in time for a
few different reasons that fed in.
And so I started to seek out different solutions to my own wellness.
And at 1.1 of those solutions was to, I went to a, a fair, like a wellness
fair and saw a chiropractor there who like got out all of the machines
and like read the amount of tension that was in my system and, and put
me on like this prescription of like ridiculous amounts of sessions with him.
And he popped a vertebrae, popped a vertebrae, popped a disc in
my back with his adjustments.
And so, yeah, so that was, so then I, I became even more, incapacitated
with my own stuff at that point.
And so that led me, like I said, into being interested in different alternative
therapies and I was quite stoic at that point in time and I didn't wanna take,
I don't really know why, but I didn't wanna take traditional pain medication
or painkillers and, and so I just, I, I think, well, when I say I dunno why,
like I, I had seen people in my family, you know, struggle with different,
medications for, for different reasons.
And I guess that part of me was like very much not wanting to be in that same ilk.
So that led me on the health science route rootin.
And that led me further down, wanting to study yoga at a different period of time
and breath work and all of these things.
And, and that was definitely a huge part of the next sort of 10
years that followed after that.
Rupert Isaacson: So you just said yoga and breath work.
And wellness.
So, okay.
You're, you're looking for solutions for your back.
Yeah.
You're there in Victoria wondering what to do.
You've got the family horses, is that right?
On a family property, but you are supposed to kind of look
after, but you dunno anybody.
Yeah.
and now you've got a bad back, which, isn't helpful of course if
you're gonna work with horses and it's young to have a bad back.
So what do you find and how does that lead you to yoga and breath work and
where does yoga and breath work lead you?
Jane Pike: So there's so many odd transitions in this part of the story.
This is like, you know, if you looked at like a ball of wool at this point,
this is like the bit where it's all like tangled in together and there's
lots of different moving parts.
Yoga and breath work.
So I decided at some point that I needed to do something a little bit different,
to what it was that I was doing.
And I really had got myself into a, a, a bit of a bad place mentally and
physically, at that point in time.
And, and the transition, came where I had horses that were, you know, that
were either very young or that were.
Able to be sort of semi-retired by that stage.
So I had no kind of middle ground horses at that moment.
And so what that meant is that my horses could go onto my parents' property and
essentially they could look after them without it being a really big deal.
Cause they had quite a lot of land at that point in time.
And so there was an opening, I guess, for me to do something different
because that, at that point my commitment to my animals would've
probably stopped me doing other things.
But it just so happened that that was possible, at that moment.
And that was where, I decided to go to New Zealand.
And with your back, back in New Zealand?
Yeah.
Well, my back was kind of like workable at that point, but it was sort of
like just permanently not okay.
So they thought I had rheumatoid arthritis.
They thought I had like loads of different things that were going on
because it was sort of unusual to have the degree of what I had, at
the age that I was like you said.
And so I went to New Zealand and the second stage of that, which is when
I sort of jumped ship and moved over there for the summer, I met an Israeli
and ended up going back to Israel with him like you do, like I do.
Yeah.
And that was after, living in New Zealand for a period of time and
starting to whle wobble around.
And at that stage, I was in Tel Aviv and there was a gym across the road.
I.
And the gym was the first place that I started to learn Hebrew because I
was doing this horrendous spin class, and they'd be like, LA, la la, la
which is like up, down, up, down.
And so I started to learn all, all my Hebrew was coming from, like the things
that the gym people were shouting at me, in, in classes to, to do.
And, and so I, I, I was just like, on a mission basically.
I had this like window, where I wasn't working necessarily.
I was living off savings.
And I, decided to just get well.
And as one of those classes was a yoga class, and I went into the yoga class
and I, in my competitive mindset was like, I am really bad at yoga, which
is like what a lot of people say.
And it was just because I was like, had the flexibility of a
concrete truck and , just kind of found everything quite challenging.
But I kept going.
And I thought, oh, maybe this is going to be able to help me in some way.
And that really was kind of the catalyst for seeking, out physical therapies
that would allow me to, find ease basically to just not be in pain.
and.
Alongside of that.
Again, like I find this really difficult to explain because
I can't make sense of it.
A lot of these transitions myself, it's all kind of like bound together.
But I think that there, like there'd always been a part of me that was
a seeker, and they'd always been a part of me that was interested in,
you know, spirituality and wellness.
And that was motivated by like another parallel thread in my life where,
you know, someone in my family was incredibly unwell for the duration
of my life in, mental health wise.
And I just remember thinking, that to be out of control of my own mind was
like the worst fate that I can imagine.
Rupert Isaacson: Before you, you were exposed to that as a kid, you saw
Jane Pike: Yes.
You saw mental illness within the family Yes.
And had to deal.
Yeah, very much so.
And I think that kind of also informed a lot of what I talked about earlier
as far as like, you know, just wanting to not rock the boat and to be the
good girl and to tick the boxes.
Because that just meant I could keep things as stable as possible,
and probably wasn't an element of control in my own life.
Right.
And I think that's where a lot of the pain came from
Rupert Isaacson: you.
Cause I think, I think, I think for a lot of reader, listeners, they, they
might be like, well, you know, hold on.
She's, you know, lifting the stuffy spot and then she's got these horses and Yeah.
This, but one of the things which we all know is that these things can mask
other things under the surface and.
So if you were indeed dealing with mental illness in a sort of, in your
face kind of a way, then yes, indeed.
No matter how many on the surface nice things are going on,
there's an underlying insecurity.
And as a child that is difficult because it's your security.
So do you feel that your Yeah, your, your, your, the seeds of
you as a seeker of human wellness?
I, I feel this is such an overused term, but, can't think of a better
one at this particular point.
Human, okayness, really?
Mm-hmm.
Human, the healing that brings us to, that started actually quite early in your life.
Do, do, do you feel that that was really
Jane Pike: actually yeah.
Very, very early.
And there are three strands that, that aren't necessarily altruistic in the first
instance, although they have hopefully become more so that, the first is to
wanna save someone that you love, right?
So, that was one of my initial motivations.
And after I, you know, absconded from the, the journalist and the law
degree, I thought, well, maybe I'll be a psychiatrist or maybe I'll be
a psychologist because that, or, or a, a, a researcher that could study
like the ways that the brain works and, and so that I could stop, will
help you know, this person and also stop it happening from other people.
And then the second thread of that was what if that's what
if that's my destiny, right?
Like, what if there's nothing I can do?
What if this is my lot?
What if this is what I'm going to become?
Wow.
And so that was the second thread of that.
And then the third thread was, I used to get quite nervous as a
competitor and I did love writing.
And so the psychology of like positive thinking and being able to control
yourself mentally and emotionally was always really interesting to me.
Like, ever since I can remember my bedside table was like
stacked with books about that.
That was what I heard.
Did you
Rupert Isaacson: find those books yourself or did other, did did your, your friends?
Jane Pike: I did find those books myself.
Yeah.
My mom had one.
oh, I can see the cover of it.
That winning feeling by, oh, she just recently passed away that her name's just
gone out of my head and she was such a,
Rupert Isaacson: I'm gonna look it up on my phone that
Jane Pike: way.
Yes.
But that was, my mom had that like very doggy book and so that kind of
sparked my, was that a helpful book?
Would you say?
Yeah.
You know, at the time I think it was well ahead of its time.
Now we'd see it as part of perhaps more the pop psychology, positive thinking,
James boy, that winning queen and boy.
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
I mean, because we're so fortunate these days to be exposed to so
much more because of the internet.
I think that a lot of what she mentions in there would perhaps say,
we'd say as part of the mainstream, movement within like, you know,
affirmations and positive thinking and visualization, that sort of thing.
But at the time, that was pretty revolutionary,
especially in the horse world.
And so I used to have that as my Bible.
Rupert Isaacson: And, did you used to do affirmations when you were Yeah, I did.
Like I going with
Jane Pike: the shows and such.
Yeah.
Did did it help?
Yeah.
Kind of hurt.
I did.
Okay.
Yeah.
Rupert Isaacson: Did you, did you feel a shift?
Did you feel AK in your chest sort of thing
Jane Pike: or No?
I, I, no, I think that I always had that underlying, disease within myself,
but it helped me hold it together.
Okay.
and then there were moments where, You know, there's a, it's kind
of a, a funny, juxtaposition and parallel that like, in some ways
the lead up was always the worst.
So that transition coming into it.
But as soon as I got on my horse, I did feel like I could conquer the world.
Okay.
so, and not from a, like, I'm gonna steamroll you type way, but just like,
I just felt so at home, riding and doing what I did and I was so proud
of my horse and loved my horse so much that it was, that was kind of
all I needed to, to get out there.
Rupert Isaacson: Did you, were you at the time were less successful, for
example, you know, when you made the tr the transition to university and then
found it wasn't for you, and then you became the sort of, you know, Jane Pike
trying this, Jane Pike trying that, people ribbing you about that in your community.
Were you also at that point trying affirmations in those areas of your
life and then finding it wasn't working?
Or did you sort of let it go and how mad Drift, did you really only
use the affirmations and that sort of thing in your competitive life?
Jane Pike: There was always a sense of something bigger than myself.
I don't know that I was using the affirmations at that point.
At that particular point you describe, I was struggling with a lot of things.
I was struggling with food and I was struggling with exercise.
And I used both of those things to punish myself.
Mm-hmm.
And I think I, I was so.
I was in such a dark place at that time.
And I was so full of self-loathing at that time.
And now retrospectively I can see that I was just trying to grab onto some
semblance of control in an experience that just felt completely out of control.
But I, I would, you know, I would exercise obsessively for like four
hours a day after I'd worked all day.
And then I was really, really strict with food.
And, and I can see that I had a very disordered eating and very
dysmorphic view of my own body.
And I, that is definitely, you know, that that's not a feature, thank
goodness of my experience anymore.
But it's, it was a very, at that particular moment in time,
I think I was so, and you're
Rupert Isaacson: dealing with this chronic pain?
Jane Pike: Yes.
Yeah.
And, and pain emotionally just of like where I was and, and just
reconciling lots of different things that had happened in my life.
So, yeah.
Rupert Isaacson: So then you find yourself in the Holy Land, doing, Hebrew aerobics.
Hebrew aerobics.
Yeah.
I can make that joke.
Cause I'm, and so, so I'm the rabbi rubric make this, but at this point,
and then you, and then you fall into yoga and you're saying, okay,
well I've been a seeker for a while.
This feels like you could have some answers for me.
Yes.
Where does this take you?
Jane Pike: So the particular relationship that took me to Israel ended, but I had,
I'd been there a little while and had quite a good community there and sort of
was, went back and forth, but obviously I wasn't allowed to stay there, because
I was foreign and didn't have the right visa requirements and that sort of thing.
And had been doing bits and pieces there and I'm just trying to piece together.
It feels like such a, is such a long time ago, but I, so the bit that
kind of came up in between, gosh, what's the order of operation here?
I've completely confused this part of my life in my mind.
So the, at one stage I was in Asia, so I was traveling.
I traveled quite, quite a lot.
Yeah, yeah, I left, I went back to Asia, and I met some people in Did you,
Rupert Isaacson: did you go to Asia looking o on the yoga trail?
Was that what took you there or were you just traveling
Jane Pike: now following you?
I was traveling.
I was mainly traveling at that moment in time, but the yoga thing was
definitely like strong in my mind.
And then intermittently, I was going back to Australia at that
point, for work and I was working and and what were you doing?
I, so as part of the health science thing, I'd done like a
massage certifi certification.
So I did massage at a APRs, clinic that paid quite well.
Like, cuz you got like quite a decent amount of money for that.
Rupert Isaacson: But at this point you've entered the healing arts?
Jane Pike: Yes.
Yeah.
So I was doing that and I knew, you know, sort of a bit about, herbal
medicine and, and all of these sorts of things and I, I would ride for people.
So there was like a bit of a mishmash of things that, would
happen when I went home.
And, I'd met, someone in Thailand who worked for the Red Cross, and he was
from Belgium and he was doing some like local on the ground things in Belgium.
And and it ended up that we got talking quite a lot at that stage.
It was like, I don't think I, did I have a mobile phone at that stage.
I might have had a mobile phone, but it was like sort of the
Hotmail Messenger type thing.
Like that was like, you had to like log on at the same time and it was like, do
you remember that there was like an M MSN messenger or something like that?
It was something like that to me that only feels
Rupert Isaacson: like five minutes ago, but I, I, I remember, remember when
mastered on silver to mastered on Yes.
The swamp.
So yeah,
Jane Pike: so that was us chatting at that point.
And, and gosh, I'm trying to, I'm trying to place my years and the order that I
did things in, But when I was in, so I, when I was sort of dipping around in yoga
at home, there was a, there was a lady that I spoke to, so my natural inclination
coming from a competitive family and also coming from a, family, so coming
from a position where exercise was like self punishment and self-flagellation,
and I was like using it.
And your parents were
Rupert Isaacson: competitive runners too, so certain amount of grueling
exercise as part of the deal, right?
Jane Pike: Yeah, yeah.
It was, well, they just, like, we we're a very active family, but I
don't know that, you know, that I used necessarily the gifts that were bespoke
bestowed to me in the way that I do now.
But, at that point I did the types of yoga, which was like, you just feel
like you wanna die at the end of it.
And that to me was success.
Rupert Isaacson: What kind of yoga is that?
Jane Pike: Well, you know, you do, like, I did Ashtanga, and like,
couldn't sort of like talk us to, for
Rupert Isaacson: those people that dunno what Ashtanga yoga
is, talk to USGA yoga Ash.
Lemme ask you one quick question.
Yes.
Had you found, had you found the answer to the pain in your back at this point?
Jane Pike: No, but I, I could see that there was potential of moving
in the right direction with it.
Okay.
So I, I saw like a light for that.
Yeah.
So you felt that the
Rupert Isaacson: yoga was strengthening you?
Yes.
Yeah.
Okay.
So, so tell us about Aang
Jane Pike: Yoga.
Ashtanga Yoga comes out of, so there were three main teachers that were students
of the main kind of yoga guru who brought it to the west called Krishna Aria.
And, Patabi Joyce was one of those yoga students, and he, created, he
didn't really create, but he was the one that sort of popularized
this form of yoga called Ashtanga.
And there were two other teachers that were descendants of that lineage of the
Christian Aria lineage and they were aen.
So some, a lot of people will be familiar with yenga yoga, much more
structured, a lot of rules around I, ien yoga that deals with body alignment.
And they use quite a lot of props, like straps and blocks and like,
there's ways of, Of shaping the body towards this particular outcome.
And the third person who's much less known, was Mohan Ag Mohan
and his wife, who are very much into the therapeutic side of yoga.
And so there were these three, students that studied with him.
Patabi Joyce is from Myo in India.
There's kind of a big, movement in mys saw towards Ashtanga.
And Ashtanga originally was, the form of yoga that was designed
for teenage boys, basically.
So a very active, very strength-based, very dynamic form of yoga that would
suit, a boy with a lot of testosterone, a lot of strength, a lot of, you know, a
lot of just physical capacity to do that.
And not necessarily designed for.
Women especially, because of the types of, breath work that it utilizes
and the type of body movement that it utilizes has quite a strong
effect on the reproductive system.
And because women weren't in mind when that system was around.
And so it's just a very, very physical, yoga, you go through a set of,
postures that all form a part of a sequence that are constantly flowing.
And you tie in the breath with that.
And so it's, because there's these set sequences and set levels that you go
through, in order to kind of like graduate to the next level, you, your body needs
to be able to move in particular ways.
And for me, that wasn't part of how my body liked to move, you know, in
terms of, just my natural inclination.
And so I found it quite challenging, but again, it fitted in quite well with
trying to make my body do something.
Rupert Isaacson: why were you attracted to that one and not the other two times?
Why not the therapeutic type, or why not in the very structured type?
Why this dynamic made for 18 year old boys type?
Jane Pike: Well it was popular where I was at that moment.
And I didn't, reali didn't really realize the lineage that it was springing from.
And initially you were in,
Rupert Isaacson: you went to my saw.
Did you, you ended
Jane Pike: up in No, I didn't.
This was in, this was at home that I, that I was doing this and also, You
know, I really thought that in order to be doing something good for my body,
I ha you had to really feel it, like the no pain, no gain type philosophy.
So, it just went in line with, I, I was just trying to escape myself ru like I
was just so, I needed to sweat it out.
I needed to push myself.
I needed to like, punish myself to some degree, even though I wouldn't
have said that's what I was doing.
Yeah.
That's what I needed at the time.
And to think of being still just meant that I had to meet myself and that would
probably be one of the worst things that I could think of at that particular time.
And how
Rupert Isaacson: did you feel it was working for you?
Just in terms of building strength or, well, I
Jane Pike: was sore.
Like it wasn't really working for me.
I was, I had sore knees, I had sore elbows, I had sore, you know, shoulders
because I was, there's a lot of jumping and a lot of like, push up type motions
and a lot of, very physical things, which for me, if you are doing it repetitively
and you're not doing it in a way where the body's able to sustain itself,
you develop compensation patterns.
And so now it's like, oh gosh, my right shoulder hurts because I'm
using that arm more and I'm doing this like 50 times a session.
And so that starts to have a, have an effect.
But the, the way out of that, was actually following someone that had
most likely been in a similar position to me, who was one of my main Ashtanga
teachers, and then started studying with Mohan, who was the therapeutic.
Teacher and she came back from, Chenai, which is where he was based,
and just started teaching this like incredibly slow, form of yoga.
And I was like, what is this?
Like this is doing nothing.
I now need to go for like a 50 k run if I do this.
Like, that was my mentality, you know, it's not enough to kind of
keep me in shape or whatever it is I was supposed to be at that time.
And so she sort of sparked a seed in me and then from there I did some,
prodding around on the internet and decided that I was gonna go and study
with them directly, when I was in India, where I was gonna go to India.
Yeah.
Rupert Isaacson: So you end up in India and now you're studying
this therapeutic form of yoga.
Yes.
Is your pain
Jane Pike: getting better?
So, Mohan and his wife Indra are quite magical people.
And the first course that I did was eight weeks.
And you go and you sit on their concrete floor and you listen all day to them and
you do practices and they teach you the Vaers and they teach you the everything.
And you go and have a consultation with Indra.
And Indra is like, because she's a woman, she doesn't get the
same accolades as her husband.
But actually she's probably the most skilled of the two.
But she's just ag mohans wife, if that makes sense.
But she's studied the same as him.
She's actually, she's, she's really the magical, one of the two of them.
And she, because I was female, she was the one that saw me.
Cuz there's quite strict customs there in terms of who sees who.
So we go into the room and she asks me to, she does like a, gets me to
move in a couple of different ways.
And, and their approach is they give you a personal practice.
So they actually give you the postures to do based on your mind and your body.
Which is a first for me because everything else had been generic up until that point.
So they designed postures for you, they designed a sequence for you.
And, I went in, I can remember it really clearly.
I went into her little room and she is like, for the time you are
here, you're only doing what I say.
You're only doing these postures.
Because I was doing my Ashtanga Pro practice in the morning.
And then going to them, you see this is the level of my addiction actually.
Like, I was like, I was doing something that I thought would like keep me
strong and fear and then I was gonna go and do the therapeutic yoga,
which was like the nice thing on the side that I could tell other people.
And she was like, no, no, no, you you, you are not doing that anymore.
You're not doing that.
And that was like a crisis of, for me, for a month.
I, I did do what she said cuz I was like, I'm here.
It feels very disrespectful to not do.
What she is asking if I'm gonna be in this.
But I had a real moment with that, that was like the beginning, I think
of breaking, it was basically like an alcoholic arriving and them saying, you're
not drinking for the next eight weeks.
And you're like, what?
Like that, that's how it felt like I was, that's how I imagined it would feel.
It's like I was so addicted to that as a way of like keeping my mind
in a, in a container, that I could manage that to think about letting
that go was actually terrifying.
Rupert Isaacson: And so you felt that the Ashtanga was basically the keeping
the lid on your, wobbly mental health and that if you were to let that go, you might
wobble outside the jar sort of thing?
Jane Pike: Yeah.
Yeah.
And, and also beyond that, I think that, and I, I don't know, sorry, this is
going a little bit outside the REIT of what your podcast is about, isn't it?
But it's,
Rupert Isaacson: no, not at all.
It's, it's, it's how we get, it's how we get, it's how we
get to self-actualization.
Jane Pike: Yeah.
It's interesting as well.
I think that for me, and the reason that I talk about this, well, I have no
shame around it, but also I think that a lot of, I was gonna say women, but I
think a lot of people will go through this, where, the way that I controlled
my life was through controlling my body.
And so my.
Thought processes around controlling my body at that moment in time
was with punishing exercise.
And so if I let that go, I thought that would mean a, I would start looking
a certain way, which was, again, I didn't even really have ideas about,
like, I didn't, it's, it's funny to reflect on because it wasn't so much
that I was like judging people's body shapes, but for me it was just control.
Like, it was like I just was aiming to look a certain way
in order to stay controlled.
And that involved, I guess I had so much adrenaline crossing
through my system, that that was kind of burning that up as well.
And if it wasn't being burned up, then I had to deal with it in other ways.
Right.
But I found interestingly that, because I am a good student and I do do what
I'm told, if I, into a certain extent at that moment in time, that I followed the
practice, I was like, well, I'm here.
And I, it was actually so beautiful, aside from I would get up in the
morning, and for those of you who've been to India, it's like this very,
it's a mishmash of different things.
So on the one hand, you'd have the call to prayer that's very, very
beautiful, like so, so beautiful.
I'm up before the sun.
It's, I've, I've laid out my little yoga mat.
I'm on my little concrete floor.
My, my place is super basic.
You know, there's no toilet, no anything like that.
I've got the colder prayer, the air is warm.
I'm like, this feels lush.
And then all of a sudden someone starts like hoking outside my window,
like, like clearing your throat.
And like, and you know, like the abolitions begin, you're
like, what a j this is India.
Right?
Like the juxtaposition between this is the most sublime thing
that's ever happened to me.
And then all of a sudden someone starts like, just literally like throwing up.
Rupert Isaacson: Take your shit right outside your window.
Yeah,
Jane Pike: exactly.
You're like, well, right in the eye.
Back to reality.
And so that was, and what I noticed over the course of six weeks was
with this very, very, very soft and gentle practice, everything started
to shift for me, at that moment.
And so that was a really huge, transition.
And I kind of dedicated myself to them for a long period of time.
How long, years.
Like I studied with them for years and I did the practice for years.
And I, I thought
Rupert Isaacson: So you would say Indra all I want to do what?
So it's Mohan and Indra.
Mohan.
Mohan Mohan is the, is the family name?
Yes.
Yeah.
They were, were they're still practice.
The, the Mohans were your mentors basically?
Yes.
Yeah.
But for how long?
For like a decade.
For like five years.
Jane Pike: For, yeah.
A decade.
Yeah.
Okay.
And at that stage as well, like, I really, I, and, and I think this suited
me because it meant that I didn't have to show up in life for other things that
were challenging to me at that moment.
I thought I just wanted to go and be in a cave, and I was just gonna be that
person that like, meditated and did yoga and I just was going to get enlightened.
That was like my idea.
I was like, yeah, I'm just, that's what I'm gonna do.
I'm gonna like, check out.
I'm just gonna do this.
I'm gonna be in whatever way I need to be in life, as much as I need to be, and
then I'm just going to do this thing.
I'm just gonna be by myself and do the thing.
And I think that, again, retrospectively, that was very convenient.
Because it, you know, relationships are hard and like showing up
in the world notice is hard.
Yeah.
Really.
And, and if you can, like, if you can be like, wow, maybe actually the idea is
that you should just like, be in a cave and like, and secrete yourself away.
Like, was, that was quite a attractive, idea at that moment because, and
Rupert Isaacson: was that promoted by the, the mohans?
Was that more your, your own idea that that was what you had to do?
Jane Pike: They were very much, not necessarily in overt ways, because I
don't wanna seek to represent them at all.
They're, they're very encouraging and will create a supportive framework
around whatever your life is showing.
Okay.
But they're ultimately as a practice, you know, like they're aiming to bring the
mind towards one pointed focus, and that is about controlling earthly desires.
Okay.
Right.
So, leaving the
Rupert Isaacson: senses behind, leaving the body behind Yes.
The mind.
Yeah.
Transcendent everyth.
Jane Pike: Yeah.
So, and they're, you know, for instance, if I just remember hearing, him talk
one day and, that when he traveled, he didn't go looking around at things, he
would go back to his room and meditate.
And I remember thinking, wow, like, that's interesting, isn't it?
Like to not be interested in what's going on around you in a place that
you've never been before, but instead to just do the work that you came for
and then just go back and meditate was kind of like jarring thought for me.
And that, you know, relationship has a purpose for recreation.
And then, you know, beyond that, it's like, not that they weren't very loving
towards each other, but the, they, they understood that their ultimate
purpose was to unite with the divine.
And that was.
That was bigger than what either of them were individually or
what their relationship was.
And so, you know, there are a lot of beautiful things that came out of that
experience for me and a lot of problematic things, that came out of that for me.
I, I won't speak for them or their lineage, but for me from a, you
know, cultural perspective and from the perspective of who I understand
myself to be now and who I understand myself to have always been, but just
didn't really recognize, because, so
Rupert Isaacson: at, at a certain point, did you become like an
instructor you were leading?
Jane Pike: Yeah.
Yeah.
I was hard out teaching.
Yeah.
Okay.
You, you are you like I did all of the things.
Rupert Isaacson: Yeah.
Yeah.
Being flown around the world, teaching wealthy Chinese businessman type thing.
Yoga or,
--- ------ Jane Pike: yeah.
I did work in China for food in Hong Kong and like, went to China and I,
I was teaching all over the place.
I was in Bali.
I was, going to set up retreat centers and yoga centers.
So this is success.
Rupert Isaacson: I mean, you've now found this, this thing with
this, this therapeutic yoga.
I presume it's making you feel better to some degree.
It must be making other people feel better.
Jane Pike: That's the irony, isn't it?
It gave me a focus.
I don't know that it made me feel better.
Okay.
It gave me a focus.
And, and I think that that was a relief having been.
Swimming around in this un, you know, what am I gonna do with my life thing
all of a sudden, like I was something that I could attach something to.
You're good at it.
Rupert Isaacson: People want you, you're marketable.
Yeah.
You've mastered it.
If you found mastery of something
Jane Pike: Yeah.
Enough to be able to impart
Rupert Isaacson: some stuff.
To where are the horses in this?
Have they gone completely by the by at this point?
Jane Pike: They have at this point, yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Rupert Isaacson: Are you missing them somehow?
Yes.
I Are you not thinking about them?
Jane Pike: Yeah.
No, I am missing them.
Yeah.
I am missing them.
Yeah.
And I, and I had like, you know, there's, I had crises of, of sorts again, because
I was traveling quite extensively and I was doing other work in between there.
But you know, you see a lot of people, in Bali for instance,
I saw people that were expats.
And there's like an expat community, and I just remember feeling deeply uncomfortable
with the situation in that they're, they're very affluent in the country
that they're, they've arrived in because obviously the currency that they have come
with is worth a lot more than the currency they're playing with in that moment.
They all have housekeepers and there's just this like residue of colonialism
and, hierarchical living that really, really made me uncomfortable.
And, and the.
Yoga community in those places is very much a part of that because
a lot of the reason why people go there in the first place is to seek
some form of wellness, and wellness solutions and wellness retreats.
And there's a lot of people that have set up things there, that are kind of
doing so under this pseudo idea that they're, you know, helping humanity.
But actually what I saw was just like, well, this is just a
convenient, I don't know, it just really didn't sit well with me.
And you, and you saw that in a, in a few different places that kind
of, oh, we're helping out here.
But actually it's like, no, you're under really good wicket and you are doing
so at the expense of some local people.
And it just is just, was weird to me.
Yeah, but, and so I, I, I, I al I always had this thought of like, this can't be
the end point because I watched, I just, I remember sitting in a cafe and I like
saw a group of, men come in that were all in their little, like, you know,
hos or whatever.
I was gonna
Rupert Isaacson: say seven dwarves outfits.
I'm, I'm, I'm on there.
Jane Pike: Like, they're in go.
It's like there's a, there's a look.
And I, I, and I looked at them and I thought, I can't be that.
I just can't end up like that.
Like I can't be that.
And, and I thought at some point when you've stayed away
too long, you can't go back.
You know, because you've either absented yourself from your culture
or financially you just can't go back because now you're used to living
in India and everything is so cheap.
And, and so I I, I always had this idea of this was temporary, but I wasn't quite
sure where things were gonna lead next.
Rupert Isaacson: so where did they lead next and what was the transition point?
Jane Pike: So the transition point was,
there are a few things that happened.
Cuz this is sort of like a few, you know, over a, the course of many years,
the, I was in Europe for a period and I went to see my friend who was
the Red Cross worker that I mentioned.
Oh, the Israeli
Rupert Isaacson: guy previously?
Yeah.
No,
Jane Pike: the Belgian guy.
Belgian, yeah.
Yeah.
And there were some local projects that they were involved with, that I was just
volunteering at and helping out with.
And then around that time, The tsunami happened, it was like 2000 and, 2004.
And so there were all people getting dispatched over there initially
to Thailand, then to Sri Lanka.
And, Chennai where I'd been studying in India was marginally affected
like Southern India, but not so badly, as the, as the other places.
And I had the opportunity to go.
And I'd already been doing, different pieces of work, that were like
aid humanitarian related, projects, whenever I could around the place,
both personally and then kind of hooking in with other groups.
And so I went, and decided to be a part of the, like,
dispatch that went to Sri Lanka.
and so shortly after that happened, that's where I arrived and was
there for the next 12 months.
Also, and I think that that was a real sort of turning point for me as well,
where I was like, I need something.
I, I, I just need to figure myself out.
Like I really need to figure myself out.
And I went back to New Zealand after that.
That's where I was
Rupert Isaacson: like, okay, I'll, oh, hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on.
You must have done something quite interesting down there.
And she like, what did you do?
In the aftermath of the tsunami.
Can't just gloss over that.
Come
Jane Pike: on.
Yeah.
Well there were sort of different, okay, that's enough.
Let's move on.
Yeah, there were different parts to it.
The first part was, anyone who's done any sort of aid work and, and I had
been doing things prior, so it wasn't sort of my first foray, but the,
there's a huge amount of corruption in Asia and in, you know, Indian
subcontinent and all around there.
And I'd been traveling and working all around there, so I was kind
of used to the use of the game.
But after the, tsunami kind of hit new levels, especially, especially
with the president of Sri Lanka, who was, female at that time.
I'm not quite sure who it is now, but she was, there was a huge outpouring
of public donations, because, I mean, this is one of the first times really
I think, where something to that scale had been caught on camera, for the
mainstream to be able to experience.
And so, you know, people holidaying had caught on their mobile phones
and it was all over the, the news and it was so shocking.
Like it was, it was really, really so shocking that, it moved people
to give money in ways that they hadn't really given money before.
And so, of course this goes to the powers that be initially in the country.
That doesn't go to the people that who need it.
It goes to the people who you hope are going to equitably distribute it.
And in Sri Lanka, that definitely wasn't the case.
So, she profited very handsomely and fabulously off people's,
donations in that first instance.
And so, When, when you work or are with a organization that are, that
have a huge administrative background, there is also limitations in what
you can do because everything has to go through, process of course.
So, how, how publicly, good this is to talk about.
But anyway, so that was the first part of it was with, with the organization.
Then what we decided was that we would come back independently.
And we thought, well, you know, if we had like you and a small
Rupert Isaacson: group
Jane Pike: of people there, yes.
Yeah.
If we came back and we independently raised money and we had like thousands
of dollars in our own bank accounts that were, we just directly like
went in and just helped people out.
We could do something faster than we could if we have to wait for
this whole process to happen.
And so, the person I was with, he was a, a very skilled photographer.
I had sort of other skills that were going on and the other thing that
we did at that point in time was, my main role was I worked with the,
the children quite a lot and it was very much making it up as you go.
So I could see that, the kids were quite traumatized but
also desperate to be children.
And so I said to them, cuz one of the things I was really aware of was the.
Sort of white savior thing that happens or you create that mentality
where, you are handing out money and it's a very disempowering situation
for people, especially individuals, you know, with their own pride
and their own, stuff going on.
And so with the children, I thought, well, how can we make it so that they feel
like they're actually raising their own money, even if it's not actually the case?
Like, so that there's like a sentiment that they have apart
in what they're receiving.
And so, I said, look, we've got a, art, a, a museum sort of art
gallery, a couple of different art galleries that are interested
in, auctioning off your pictures.
Cuz I know that you do really good art.
You've been drawing with me and you do really good pictures.
So I do wanna draw some pictures for me.
And so they started producing this artwork that was just like wild, like, and I
didn't ask them to draw about the tsunami.
I just said, you can draw whatever you want.
Like, it doesn't, doesn't matter.
And they drew these like big black waves with like teeth coming out of them and
like bodies floating on top of the water and like, People hanging off trees and
like, basically like whatever was in their subconscious, these little kids
that were just like la la la would come out with these like dark pictures of
like death and destruction and like metaphorical representations of the wave.
And I was like, oh, wow.
That's lovely.
Thank you.
Just be like, oh, like where am I gonna take this?
Like it was, it was, it was a thing.
And so I collected all of their artwork and I said, thank you.
We're gonna take it.
And there, there's people, you know, in places that might be able to help
us right now that are gonna auction off your work and then we're gonna
come back and, and, and help you.
And that's kind of, and that's kind of what we did.
And we also had prints and things that we made from there.
And we were just hard out fundraising when we got home.
And then we went back directly with the money in our bank accounts
and just worked as nobodies.
But already knew kind of the ins and outs of what was needed
and, and where to put the money.
So we just picked a few, we picked a village basically, and
we picked families that we thought we could most influence and help.
And, and then we just, did what we could there.
Yeah.
Rupert Isaacson: How didn't you keep doing that and what
happened to the yoga in between?
Jane Pike: Yoga, I was just practicing myself, but I wasn't, that, that was kind
of the core of my work was being there.
I mean, you can live very, very simply in places like that on next to nothing.
Rupert Isaacson: So.
Right.
So you're doing this and you're helping rebuild communities there.
Mm-hmm.
With money that you've raised, directly.
What takes you away from that?
Jane Pike: It came to a natural conclusion, I think, where you realize
the end of your capacity, well, a, you run out of money and b you
get to the end of your usefulness.
I think there's like a natural evolution of chapters that people go through in
those experiences where you realize like, now something bigger needs to happen.
And also just for myself, I had started to get to that place where I was like,
I, I have to make a decision about, I have to be a grown up basically.
Like what's, what can I, I I wanted to have roots a little bit.
Like I wanted to, to find a place where I could.
You've been traveling for a while by now?
Yeah.
I'd been traveling for a long time.
Yeah.
And a lot of it with a sort of lost feeling inside.
And so I was like, I think I'm gonna go back to New Zealand and
and I'm just gonna land there.
The landscape always felt really good to me there or here, and I never, you
know, there's aspects of Australia, which are always gonna be a part of
me, which actually has to do with the landscape as well, and smells and
animals and those sorts of things.
But I never really, wanted to stay.
I knew that wasn't the place that I was gonna stay.
And I think actually, you know, I have a nomadic tendency anyway that perhaps I
struggled to reconcile for a long time.
But yeah.
So
Rupert Isaacson: back, so you, you end up back in New Zealand.
Yeah.
You've, you've followed healing, you've followed, yeah.
You've become, you've achieved a certain mastery in a healing form of yoga.
You've then taken that healing into social healing with advocacy and, rebuilding
of communities up to the tsunami.
And this is all pretty significant work.
And then you arrive as Jane Pike again in New Zealand.
What do you do then?
Jane Pike: at first I was writing, at first I was writing, I,
well, I had two things going on.
I was just working in a shop, like just to have money.
And, the shop that was, it was a retail shop selling like
different clothes and other things.
And so I was sitting there and
Rupert Isaacson: Did that feel a little surreal after?
Yeah,
Jane Pike: it was very surreal.
It was very, very surreal.
But it was kind of welcome at the same time because I, I
just, Was I needed to regroup.
Like to put stable, right?
Yes.
Yeah.
It had been a lot.
And, and so the, it was something where I got like a regular amount of income
that was like very, very little and, but it was enough to kind of like pay
rent and eat and do all the things.
And then I started to, to write, because at that point, I wanted to write a book.
And also I, it sounds like I was just dropping things in, but I'm not quite
sure how they, how they happened.
I did have a column, I had like a column in a couple of newspapers at one point
in time, that I was writing for, and I'd managed to kind of whe on my way in there.
So you arrived back,
Rupert Isaacson: started freelancing a bit?
Yes.
Yeah.
Had you been dabbling and writing through this whole time?
Like, I just pitched myself.
Oh, really?
But you had, you always sort of wanted to write?
Jane Pike: I always considered, I always loved writing.
Yeah.
Words were always something that I loved doing.
And so I thought, initially I wanted to write a children's book, but I,
I don't know, I just, I always rose.
So that seemed like, I mean, that's where the journalism came from, right?
Like that's where,
Rupert Isaacson: and what would you, writing, you writing what, what, what
columns are you writing for these papers?
Stuff from what you've been doing.
Jane Pike: Yeah, so at one point I won a competition, and it was.
And then afterwards I said, oh, actually we kind of like your work.
Would you come
Rupert Isaacson: on as a regular?
We've had like, good responses to the work and it was, it was about, it was fashion.
It was like a fashion, of course, it was after the human rights and I won a, I won
a competition, to be like the reporter, if you like, over a fashion week.
And so I did that and then that stuff came out of that.
But it was such, I ended up quitting because it was such a,
like wildly misogynistic, place.
It was really stuck in the dark ages.
That actually, that's probably one of my proudest moments where I like quit on
principle of something and then later on, and they were really assholes about it.
And then later on, they begged for me to come back and I got to say no again,
which was like, you know, this beautiful moment in my life actually, you have a,
a little plaque on the wall, so Yeah.
No, to the misogynous.
Totally.
Yeah.
Okay.
So now you've fallen into writing.
Is it all fashion or do you start to go writing in retail?
Yeah, that's right.
Fashion and retail.
It, so that was just literally for bill paying practices and
then behind the scenes I was, playing with fiction writing.
Yeah.
And so the idea was that I was going to write my own thing, mm-hmm.
And just.
Be single and, and have enough money to get by so that I could do
that and just be free basically.
How long did that last?
Not very long.
I met my husbands fairly soon after that.
So then how, how does it go from your, you're back from
this significance adventure.
Yeah.
You, you've learned these skills, but now you appear to have abandoned them.
You, you're, you've gone a whole new direction.
You're writing now, you're doing bill paying fashion and retail stuff.
You're, you're writing, how does, how do you go from that to running this
really successful, interesting online equestrian and nervous system thing?
Yeah.
How does it happen?
So being back in New Zealand, I, I did start to sort of play in the
horse world again, although I didn't have my own horse to start with.
And then when I met my husband, he, I was on the north island at that point.
He was on the south island.
And, I ended up moving down here and he, and we had some land together down here.
And so, he said, do you wanna get a horse?
And I said, I don't think you understand what that means.
And he was like, oh, yes, so do, and I was like, no, no.
Like if I ha if I have horses, I horse like, I'm like, I, I'm not a casual horse.
I'm like, I, so it's either I'm in or I, and he is like, oh, no, no, no.
And I'm like, no, no, no, no.
I don't know that you, you really understand.
And so clearly he didn't because we got a horse.
And then that's led to me to where I am now.
So, but it was, it was beautiful, you know, in that like, this is, I guess where
all of the different seeds start to merge.
And the initial idea for it was that, I thought, okay, there are
a lot of people struggling with, physical things to do with writing.
And, with my background in like therapeutic yoga and like body
stuff, I, dabbled with starting to help people from that perspective.
And then it became apparent to me through our conversations that a lot
of what people were struggling with was like confidence and anxiety issues.
And, and I had things to say about that, that were helpful to people, but
they, I had never considered that to be something that would be like, it was so
natural to me to talk about that stuff.
And it was so.
In me to talk about it, that it wasn't anything that I considered to be a skill.
Mm-hmm.
Until I recognize that, oh, maybe I do have something to say that people
would, would like to hear about.
And so what mainly started was I started a Facebook page, and this was kind of
in the early days of Facebook where I just blogged like I wrote every day.
And I blogged about the things that to do with the mind and emotions
and the body from the perspective of all the things that I've been
studying and learning about.
And people were really interested in it.
like I started to have a really solid following.
I never sold anything for like years.
I literally just wrote and put lots of free stuff out there.
I just shared what I knew.
And I, and I started to get a, a bit of a following off the back of that.
And I'd always studied, like, it was in the meantime I was studying like loads
of different, like, mental skills and, and you know, like I've studied, I've
done masters in hypnotherapy and like, and like loads, loads of different
things, different psycho psychology studies and, Lots of different things
kind of running in the background.
I actually started another university course in violence and trauma that
when I got back from, the tsunami, how to cause it or how to recover
from it, how to recover from it.
But then I realized that, actually just at the time, that is something
that I'd wished I'd continued on with.
But being in the position I was at the time, I was one of the few people that was
sort of working full-time and trying to study full-time and I just couldn't do it.
I had no support from outside, so it was like I just, I can't actually, live and,
and eat and, and do this at the same time.
So that, that fell away at that point.
And it really did evolve from there when, when I had my first
child, Flynn, so he's 12 this year.
That was kind of the, the seed of like, like I think part of partially it was the
seed of frustration that bore the actual business in its form that it is now in
terms of like, I've lost my autonomy.
You know, my partner is working really, really long hours and is way a lot, and
I'm completely reliant on other people to look after my baby if I wanna do
anything that's like separate to me.
So what can I do that will like, Feed this sort of intellectual energy that I have
and creating Just by now, you're living in a remote part of the south island?
Yes.
Yeah.
Okay.
Yeah.
And, having gone from this completely cosmopolitan life, now you are Yes.
Yeah, yeah.
Down there.
Yeah.
In but isolated.
Yeah.
And so that's how it started.
I, I started putting together like little packages for, for well writing
initially, like continuing on with the blog that I'd started and then
putting together little packages.
And, at that stage, like anything internet wise was a very new endeavor.
Like now memberships and stuff like that are so common that everyone
has a membership at that point.
I remember talking to a software person, him not even knowing
what I was talking about.
He's like, oh, that's not a thing.
You can't do that.
It'll be, that would be like 20 million to like, create that.
And I was like, oh, I have no money.
Excellent.
So, so everything started with zero money.
Like I had no, no money.
I had to do it all myself.
If I wanted to figure it out, I needed to learn it and, or it
needed to cost like only $5 and it was basically like my budget.
And so I did, yeah, I'm, I'm sort of studying in the
background all the way through.
I'm studying to get like a small amount of people to the point where, The
first thing I offered was a bootcamp.
I called it a bootcamp and it went for six months and I gave people content
like at the start of each month.
That was, that was specifically focusing on like confidence type things.
And I remember thinking, oh my God, I am like, this is so much money.
I think I charged them like a hundred dollars each, and there
was maybe 15 people in it.
And I was like, this, I've made it like this is it.
I've got like something coming in that just felt like
this phenomenal achievement.
And there was another really kind of cataclysmic moment where, all the
way through I've had to teach myself.
So I've always been doing like business courses or I'd look for someone that
was doing something similar, in terms of a format that I thought was good, even
if it was a completely unrelated topic.
And I just studied their thing to like look at their format.
And so at one point I signed up for this business course and it was $800.
It was 800 New Zealand dollars, which for me was like, this is outrageous.
Like, and I didn't tell anyone.
I didn't tell my husband.
I just put it on the credit card, put it on my credit card, and I was like, okay,
I'm gonna put it on the credit card.
And then, and because I've done this so deceitfully, I have to
make it back by the end of it.
Like I have to make it back like that.
There's no choice about that.
And so, within the six weeks I did, I did, I created two.
Different courses off the back of that one, which was COMPETIT focused
and one which was confidence focused.
And then that kind of led me to the membership, just through
realizing what different people needed at different moments.
So yeah.
Now, confident Rider and Joy Ride are these known things and, you've
got a following all over the world.
What would you say now it is that you do an offer, if you were to put it in your,
not even the elevator pitch, but if you are, if you were to say more or less in
a nutshell what it is you give people through this online, thing involving
their nervous system now, what is it?
So it's a movement based program and we are ultimately looking to
create nervous system, adaptability.
So we're interested in, getting people into a position and a place where if
we, we think of it technically, their brain and body are responding accurately
to what's going on in their life.
And for lots of people, they're not responding accurately.
They're either in Groundhog Day situations, they're finding themselves
overreacting or underreacting.
And that, That shows up in writing, that shows up in life, that shows up
mentally, physically, and emotionally.
And so, I look at biomechanics, but I look at it from a nervous system
perspective, which is, which is quite a different lens to view it
from than traditional biomechanics.
We look at mindset and also, emotions within the template that
the nervous system creates as well.
But I think that there's a slightly different flavor, also to what I offered
that perhaps I haven't been so vocal about in the beginning, in that, I'm,
I'm really fascinated by the body and I have so much reverence and respect for
science and, everything that it offers us and have, you know, gone deeply down that
rabbit hole and will continue to myself.
However, there also has to be room for the mystical and the magical.
And I think that a lot of our conversations, while they're rooted
in that scientific understanding, also allow space for, just what it means to
be human and what it means to be, you know, a part of the world that we're
in and the landscape that we're in.
And, and to recognize that there is something bigger than us at play.
So, you know, it's, it's all of those things.
Does that make sense?
This, this sounds like it goes far beyond helping people out with
their confidence on horseback.
Yeah, the horses are such a gift in that they're, well firstly they give people
a reason to look at things that might not be, comfortable, acceptable, quote
unquote, or okay to look at without them.
So for instance, you know, people may well recognize that they struggle
with anxiety generally, or they're feeling like, gosh, is this kind of
it as far as their life is concerned?
But they don't give themselves permission to really look at those
things in isolation or they wouldn't go to someone to talk about them
because that would be just kind of not something that they would ever do.
But if it relates to their riding or they can use their horse as like the
thing outside of themselves, which is the conversation, Kickstarter, then it
takes the pressure off them, it takes the spotlight off them, and it just provides
a way in to have bigger conversations that, that just feel more possible.
What would you say?
That's what my experience has been.
Yeah.
What would you say is the prevalent thing about the nervous system in
the brain that you find yourself now helping people with the most?
So I think that one of the gifts of the.
The time that we're in is that this nervous system awareness,
is becoming much more mainstream.
That it is, it's not uncommon, especially in the world that you are moving in and
the world that I move in for people to have some kind of understanding about
the nervous system, whereas that used to be like 10 or 20 years ago, like
such a foreign idea to talk about.
And I think that just in science in general, it's really like
there's been huge leaps and, and evolutions in understanding that.
And so for me, what my work involves, which is not something that I see commonly
talked about and or offered is this understanding, of the different motor
reflex patterns that we move through when we're in the fight flight response.
And so if we consider, as we go into our sympathetic system, there are
these templates, if you like, that the body utilizers in order to fulfill the
function of that nervous system state.
So fight, flight, freeze.
And there's a couple of different statements say just for those,
for those people who are not, move, Nervous system people.
The sympathetic nervous system is the fight, flight, freeze,
fight, flight nervous system.
Yeah, that's right.
Yeah.
So go on.
Yeah.
So within, within the fight flight nervous system, there are these different,
reflex patterns, which are essentially structural or movement patterns.
That means that for any of us who move into a fight response for any of us
that move into a flight response or a freeze response, there is a way that
your body, moves itself a way that your body orients itself from the inside
out, that is observable and, and, discernible in that like if, if RU or
myself, whereas in a fight I can, I would be able to observe that by the
way the structure of the body moves.
So there's a template, that that creates.
And so alongside that physical template, and again, it, it, we
do that in order to maximize the purpose of that particular, state.
So for fight, I'm really wanting to maximize my force for flea.
I'm wanting to maximize my acceleration, and so the body orients itself in
order to fulfill that function.
And this has been such a revelation to me because a lot of, what we see
as dysfunction disease, disharmony in the body is the body operating more
often than not from one of these.
Sympathetic patterns from one of these fight flight patterns.
And the brain in and of itself, for a number of different reasons, has lost
the capacity to move fluently between the different nervous system states,
which is essentially, if I am, a human with adaptability and who isn't stuck
on a particular channel, I'm able to flip in between any of the states,
both fight, flight and parasympathetic.
So parasympathetic is like just optimal mode functioning, sort
of normal, everyday functioning, being okay, Bethany being okay.
And the survival nervous system is really only, designed for me
being under physiological threat.
So, for most of us, hopefully, who aren't in a position where we're
under physiological threat in the day-to-day, there is no reason for us
to be in our sympathetic nervous system.
But many of us are living there and that creates different,
problems for us on every level.
So would you say, would you say that, yeah.
Would you say that the majority of people that you find that you're
working with, despite the comfort of Western life, the physical comforts
of Western life, are in fact for a multitude of reasons, basically living
in their fight flight nervous systems?
Yes.
I would say that even when there is no elephant coming at them, Yes, exactly.
Yeah.
There's like a, you know, a, a meme that goes around saying, you know,
I want my, my nervous system to my fight flight nervous system to kick
on in response to the tiger not reading the email sort of thing.
And it's like, it's, it's true, right?
Like, I think Why do you think, why do you think we're, we're
all living in this fight flight freeze when we're not in war zone?
Because we have become 50 steps removed from our environment, we're no longer
getting the amount of movement, novelty or sensory feedback that we would if we were
part of a hunter gatherer type setting.
And that starts to intimately affect how our nervous system
is able to function and operate.
So basically we're stressed because we're not living in the natural environment
that our organism is programmed for.
Yeah.
It's what has happened now is that, meeting our life needs and meeting
our survival needs is a cognitive choice rather than a physical reality.
So if I was part of a, a living situation where I was required to
be in the world, and that that meant that I had to move, so I had to look
after the people in my community.
I had to go out and search for my food, I had to tend to my shelter.
I had to like be in my environment as part of that reciprocal economy.
I'm always moving, I'm always my sensory system.
My sensory nervous system is always getting stimulated.
I'm always encountering novelty, which means that, my brain is always receiving
information about my current reality.
And now we're in a situation where movement has become a choice.
And we are no longer required to be in the world, should we choose not to be.
And so the amount, I mean, we could sit in our, sit in our rooms and order Uber each.
Yes.
Okay.
Yes, absolutely.
Yeah.
So that's the example that I use.
You know, like I can, I can be in this office, I can order food, I can
ring someone to come and fix the roof.
I can get on Facebook and I could essentially sit in my chair.
Perhaps I wouldn't be thriving, but I could stay here for
decades and still live.
That's completely possible.
And so now, if we think of it, do the lesson to that.
Yeah.
Well, the, the, it's, it's even more than that.
It's like, if we use the example of a traumatic situation, if I go out and
ride my horse or I just go out into the world and something happens to me that
I register as upsetting to the point where I might label it as traumatic.
If I sit in my office essentially, In order for that experience to
have context in order for my brain to be able to contextualize it.
As that happened yesterday, or that happened this morning, or that
happened last year, I need to be constantly uploading new information.
I need to be constantly in the world.
My sensory system needs to be bringing in new information to my brain.
So my brain is not prioritizing or sitting front and center that experience.
It's because I'm, I'm required to be out there.
And so when that happens, things get contextualized.
It's like I had that kind of shitty experience with that happen last year.
Now what happens is that we have this unpleasant event.
We come and sit wherever it is, we are in our home and we don't go out,
we don't engage our, our sensory system isn't getting stimulated.
We're not moving in novel ways.
And so it becomes the dominant process for the brain.
It becomes the dominant pattern that isn't being challenged by
any other information coming in.
The, so basically the, the trauma doesn't get massaged out of us.
We don't, we don't.
We don't.
Is that what you're saying?
That, that, that this, I'm gonna go back to this novel movement thing.
Cause it, yeah.
It's a novel thing to hear.
It's still a novel term to me.
Novel movement.
I think.
I think listeners would like to have that explained to them.
Jane Pike: Yeah.
But basically these different form, are you saying that these different forms
of movement that we would encounter in a natural situation where we've
gotta walk or climb, we gotta swim, we gotta bump against the trees,
we gotta dig, we gotta, whatever.
Give us a certain input through the nervous system that assuages,
quote unquote traumatic events and then leads us to resilience.
And then if we don't have that, we kind of get stuck in those unpleasant experiences.
Is that basically what you're driving?
Yeah.
Is, is it alright for me to give a little background to it?
Please.
I think it's, without it, it's a little more difficult to understand.
If you think of it in very simplistic terms, the brain is always looking
to answer the question, are we safe?
That's the baseline of, of any type of conversation that the brain
is having with the environment.
And where relational creatures, meaning we're always looking to assess what it
is, how it is we fit in this situation, in any situation that we come into.
So the way that we do that is through sensory information.
Sensory information comes into the brain.
We have 19 different sensors that we're constantly feeling into the
environment with, and it's coming into this place in our brain called
the reticular activating system.
And the reticular activating system is using that information to
answer that question, are we safe?
The answer is either yes, no, or maybe right?
So if it's yes, then what gets sent out is a motor pattern, which
is a movement pattern, right?
So sensory in motor pattern out movement, pattern out.
That motor pattern can either be a parasympathetic pattern
or a sympathetic pattern.
It's either one of those two things.
If the brain says, yes, you are safe, then we create a new pattern that is
based on matching the circumstance.
So I create a whole new response based on what it is that I'm in, relationship with.
And that's something I haven't experienced before because it's not a reflex, right?
It's a new pattern that the brain creates.
When I am, when the answer is no, then the brain chooses which of these
reflex states are we gonna choose?
Are we gonna put 'em in fight?
Are we gonna put 'em in flight?
Are we gonna put 'em in freeze or collapse?
Those, that's the template that it chooses.
If it's maybe the brain always errs on the side of caution.
And so we go into the sympathetic system, right, just as a, just in case policy.
So that's it.
Sensory information comes in, a movement pattern gets set out.
The movement pattern is either parasympathetic or sympathetic.
That's, that's the sort of the basis of it.
So in order for our sensory system to stay alive and remembering the
sensory system is what the brain needs to make accurate decisions
about the situation that it's in.
In order for the sensory system to be alive, it needs to be constantly
stimulated and it gets constantly stimulated through interactions
with different experiences that capture our attention.
We're always looking to be efficient.
So basically the brains, as soon as something is no longer novel,
it creates a pattern for it.
It creates an understanding for it, so it doesn't constantly have to
process what it is that's going on.
And so novelty is what keeps our sensory nervous system alive.
Now, if you're constantly engaging in your environment, it's constantly
novel because it's constantly changing.
If you're constantly putting change, the wind changes,
the ground underfoot changes.
Yeah.
Nothing is ever the same, even if you're treading the same path every day.
Got it.
It could be hard depending if it's right.
Yeah, exactly.
And so, yeah, and, and if you put your awareness on different parts
of your body as you go through the world as well, that that's changing.
Like, because your body's in constant change.
And so what we have in traditional societies is a setup where, where,
where, where our nervous system is supported for optimal function.
And so when we get into modern day living, what we have now is if you ask any adult
that, you know, I will safely say this.
The majority of them, I would say perhaps 10% will fall outside this window, will
be able to tell you exactly what they do and how they do it over a given week.
Like, they'll get up on Monday and maybe they'll go to the gym and then they'll
go to go to work, and then they'll eat this lunch, and then they'll come home.
They'll be like a predictable set of ways that they move their body.
And most of the time they'll do that with headphones on, or they'll do
that with some form of distraction.
So they're not even really present with what it is that they're
doing in their environment.
And so the brain has already recognized this is no longer
novel, like there's no new sensory information coming in through this.
And so we get stuck in these sort of set patterns which start to become
predictable to the brain, and it's not being stimulated in any way.
And then as well, because of modern living, what happens as we enter
our fight flight nervous system is the sensory system gets turned off.
And so, and the reason for that is protective.
So if someone punches me in the face, I don't wanna feel all the
feelings because that limits my ability to respond in the moment.
and if I'm in conservation of energy mode, for instance, which is like
collapse essentially, it's sort of hibernation mode for humans.
Or it's essential MAMs.
Yeah, yeah.
But you Yeah, exactly.
You just, like, you, your, your sensory system is not,
what's feeling into the world.
You're, you are essentially in, in literally introverted
at that moment in time.
And so, By design.
We're not supposed to live in our sensory, our sympathetic
or fight flight nervous system.
We're supposed to be like flicking in and out of it.
But now we have a lifestyle set up where people are in their, in their sympathetic
nervous system and not coming out, they're not being stimulated to come out of it.
So the sensory system is getting switched off.
Rupert Isaacson: The brain pressure no longer has, has anxiety that's
no longer has fresh information.
Jane Pike: And so it's just always ing on the side of caution and
staying in the, in the reflex system.
And so now we have all of these pathologies and all
of these behaviors that are,
Rupert Isaacson: so what do you do, with your web-based business that helps people
to bust out of this and get back to a more natural way of moving that can then
bring them back to their parasympathetic.
Can you explain, how, how you help?
Jane Pike: Yeah.
So it's, it's, it's not even bringing back to parasympathetic, it's just
creating that accurate responsiveness.
So not nothing is good or bad.
It's just like if you are supposed to be there, then you wanna be there.
And if you're not, you're not, sort of thing.
But we talk about being dominantly parasympathetic, which for me, in
my life situation, for instance, I'm not under physiological threat,
so there's no need for me to be,
except for every time you climb in the saddle, you just, kid
yourself that you're not Yeah, yeah.
True.
But, but, you know, more than 50% of the time I would wanna be
operating out of the parasympathetic.
That might be different if I'm on the front line in Afghanistan than
it would be more appropriate for me to be operating for my sympathetic,
more than 50% of the time.
But I use movement-based, processes and a, a practice that really
activates the sensory system.
So it's all about reengaging the sensory nerves, habituating the sensory nerves
to send signals to the brain again.
and when that happens, you start to release some of the patterns
that have been held there in over different periods of time.
And so essentially what what I'm working with is a, a brain mapping
or a body mapping process, where we're updating the brain map.
Cuz your brain map gets distorted when you are, In sympathetic
for a long period of time.
I've probably complicated things now by introducing that, but basically just using
movement to activate the sensory system.
Rupert Isaacson: and how do you show, and what movements do you show people?
Are you falling back in your yoga or are you doing other things
and how are you all these things?
Jane Pike: I don't do any yoga anymore.
I don't do any yoga.
I don't do any breath work anymore.
I've completely, changed my tag and,
Rupert Isaacson: and so I'm, if I'm, if I'm a member on this website,
what, what are you showing me and how
Jane Pike: Yeah, so there are a few different things.
the movement practices themselves focus, the focus on specific body parts.
So we'll go through like, what's some examples?
So last week we did like the Tali bone, which is part of the ankle, and we'll
do, the heel next week and we'll do the shin and shoulder blades and ribs.
And we've done the rectus a dominous muscles, we'll do different
developmental movement patterns.
But basically it's based on the premise that, The body moves differently in
parasympathetic and sympathetic system.
the way that we start to activate sensory nerves is to bring awareness.
I work with like a two point awareness process where we focus on two points
in a specific part of the body and just observe what's happening.
And that starts to activate the sensory system, which overall kicks
back into the unconscious brain.
And then you start to habituate, habituate these sensory feedback loops.
But basically it's just like a movement practice that's, that
focuses on different body parts.
So we're like mapping the body by going through different structural
parts, noticing different points on the part of the body that we're
focusing on with view to activating the sensory system in that area.
And, and that overall starts to, kick the brain back into a
different mode of functioning.
Rupert Isaacson: Okay.
And then overall by then going through these various different parts of
the body, through these different types of observation and movement,
you get to a sort of a hole at a certain point where you've sort of
retrained the body and the brain to basically come to more functionality.
Jane Pike: Yeah.
So if you think of it or functionality, yeah.
Yeah.
The, we have, something in our brain called place cells and grid
cells and their cells of location.
So basically my brain is, has a map of everything that's in
my body, in relationship to.
Each other.
So for instance, it knows where my wrist is in relationship to my elbow
cap, and it knows where my knees in relationship to my ankle, and
it also knows where my organs are.
It's at the end of your hands.
Yeah.
It also knows where all my organs are and all of those sorts of things.
So that's part of my sensory motor map that's in my, in my brain.
And when that sensory motor map is, accurate, so when it's, it's updated and
the, the brain has accurate information about the different location landmarks of
the body, it's able to accurately place me in relationship to my environment.
And so that is through my sensory system.
I basically got a series of active sensory feedback loops that are feeling into the
environment, giving my brain information so my brain can respond accurately.
When we start to get into fight flight, more often than not that
brain map starts to get distorted.
It can get distorted through paying attention to sensation too much.
So how I feel, the sensation that's in my body, that's separate to location.
And when we have a distorted sensory motor map, the sensory system gets switched off.
And again, the brain's unable to accurately make decisions, and.
And you experience this all the time.
When you're in a place of like high anxiety, it's like you're no
longer responding accurately, or you can see that in someone else.
They just have this kind of complete discombobulated view of themselves
in relationship to the world.
And so you don't actually have to, for, for as long as the brain has a
few accu, few active sensory loops to go on, you can really start to
change your experience of the world.
And so we do that through this two point process, which is in line with
activating these play cells and grid cells, which is just an awareness process.
And the other thing is, everything that I talk about here might sound confusing.
You don't need to know any of it in order for it to work.
Like you don't need to know how it works in order for it to work.
It's kind of like the horse boy stuff.
Like if you experience it, it doesn't matter why or how, like it's just,
it, it will work because there's a way that the body responds to the process
that allows that to be the case.
And it's the same here.
Like my process is I love to understand things and there are other people
that love to understand things.
So I lay out these processes as to this is why it works.
But the reality is if you come in and just do the practice, you can
understand nothing and still get the benefits of it because it's just part
of the physi physiological process.
Rupert Isaacson: Did, did you have a mentor similar to, your mentor with yoga?
Your mentors with yoga?
Yeah.
Who, who, who mentored you in.
This, deep nervous system stuff because I, you know, I work a lot
with the nervous system with advance to autism and that sort of thing,
but I haven't dealt, I ha I have not dived into it as deeply as you have.
And I'm, I'm, I'm fascinated by this.
Who, who, who, who schooled you in this?
Where, what's the story again?
Jane Pike: Yeah, so I, I mean, I'm still being schooled.
I still have multiple schoolings schoolings a week, with it and, have
been now for the past few years.
So I initially, Alicia Fado is my mentor.
She works with holistic biomechanics and Alicia Fado.
Yes.
Yeah.
And so she is my, my person basically, that I refer to and talk to and
have learnt a huge amount off.
And so when, how did you find your way to her at?
Was it again, seeking answers for your own pain, or was it more curiosity?
No, I mean, I mean, that has been, when we talk about the pain
aspect, I've definitely, like I'm completely pain free now.
Rupert Isaacson: That's been the, probably the last five years or so since I study,
and that's been through this work.
So would you say you are the Yes.
This whole, this whole conversation we've had, which began with forms
of physical and psychological and emotional physical pain Yes.
Has been a asway.
You could say, I, Joan Pike have experienced this in my body and brain.
It's mm-hmm.
The shit works, basically.
Jane Pike: Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
And I see it in my membership as well, but it's not an easy process.
Rupert Isaacson: How did you, how did you encounter, Felicia?
I.
Alicia.
Yeah, sorry.
Jane Pike: Yeah, yeah.
I, so Alicia I got the Yeah, yeah, yeah.
You've got, yeah.
So I, let me just think.
So my initial interest, so I started the work, I guess from a much
more mental skills perspective, like a top down perspective.
And that was about, kind of like mental strength, I guess.
Kind of like harnessing mental strength and like positive thinking and and,
mental toughness and all of those types of words, which make me throw
up in my mouth a little bit now.
But all of those types of words, were, were my interests to start with.
And, one of the things about those things is that you're always
behind the eight ball, right?
You can only change a thought to a positive thought after you've
already had the negative thought.
And so you're always kind of chasing your tail a little bit there.
But, the interesting thing is that, I realized the, that those skills
and understandings had to shelf life.
As far as like, for some people they worked just sort of depended
on the start, at the start point.
And, and I got to a stage myself where I was having like
a meltdown in the arena one day.
That wasn't just in relationship to what was going on, it was more actually
just a life circumstance at the time.
This is at home Lone Horse in New Zealand.
Yeah.
And I remember thinking like, no, it was at a clinic.
Even worse.
I was at a clinic, with a public, with an audience, which is clinic.
Rupert Isaacson: For those, for those non horsey people does not
mean she went to the doctors.
It means, no, but she should have at that moment a public horse
training event for some weird reason.
We horsey.
People call them clinics.
God knows why.
True.
I've seen that kind of.
Yes, that's true.
What do you mean you went to a clinic with your horse or they, they
they allowed you to like tie it up outside or, and then Oh, see, yes,
it's, no, I didn't go to the doctor.
Ok.
So fine.
Yeah.
So you're at, you're at a horse training event and, and you are at,
you're there as a horse trainer?
Jane Pike: No, I'm there as a student.
Okay.
Yeah.
And you have meltdown?
Yes, I have a meltdown.
I mean, I'm not, I have an internal meltdown trying to hold it together
and, and I just backing up because, I think it was more dangerous,
the context of the situation.
I had two, young, very expressive horses, but that normal,
normal wouldn't bother me.
It was more just, I think that, expressive.
I had a closer.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
But, also just.
I guess I had a lot of respect for the trainer.
You know, I really wanted to do a good job and I felt like I wasn't doing a good job
and there was just, I just put a lot of pressure on myself to be something other
than what I was able to be in that moment.
And that was what precipitated the, experience.
But afterwards, it created a whole change because I was like, well, if I
can't do this based on all the things I teach and I live and breathe this
stuff, then how can I expect someone else to do it that perhaps isn't doing
20% of the work that I do, or thinking about it the way that I think about it?
How can I expect it to work?
And so I had a crisis of sorts after that.
And then I went on a whole different exploration, which led me in the first
instance to somatic experiencing, which is a lot of the work that's
based, the of Peter Levine's.
And he does a lot of, you know, nervous system, trauma based work.
And I did loads and loads of study and loads of different workshops with, people
who were his colleagues and or students.
And the work that I'm teaching now was, Alicia was a guest speaker
on one of those, workshops.
Okay.
And I was there thinking, What is this?
Like, this is so random.
Like I just, I a and a little bit like your, your, your reaction to the, to the
more therapeutic yoga after the hard yoga.
Yeah, exactly.
Like, it was like, but there was a part of me which was super curious,
and I think that was the intuitive part that just was like, keep going.
You know, like I had the little, like, you applied it to
yourself, you've found something.
Yeah.
You've found something.
You need to like, investigate this further.
And, a lot of the questions that I had had that had very loose answers
that weren't satisfying to me, you know, and I think I'm in a fortunate
position in that because I'm teaching things, I'm not just finding out
things from a personal perspective.
Loose answers don't hold because I'm gonna be questioned as well.
So it's like, you need to be able to tell me what's going on here otherwise,
because I need to know, right.
I need to know who this best suits, who this best fits.
Rupert Isaacson: And, and Alicia could give you these answers
sort of suddenly she's explaining it in a way that Yeah, exactly.
Source inside the nervous system.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Quick question.
You say you don't do any yoga anymore, or any breath work?
No.
Why not?
Why not integrate the two?
What, what, what makes you say, okay, well I'm moving away.
I've moved away from that now.
Jane Pike: Yeah.
So one thing that I always encourage people to do is to.
To investigate the lineage of whatever it is that they are engaging in
as far as processes and not all.
Cause I will, you know, I don't wanna ever paint the brush, widely across
everything, but a lot of the lineages of yoga and the ones that I were pr I
was practicing come from, aesthetic.
Aesthetic.
What's not aesthetic?
Aestheticism, aestheticism, aestheticism.
They come from aestheticism.
Ah, removing yourself from the body.
Removing, yeah.
And, and so, and, and a lot of meditation practices are for that as well, right?
Ah, so like, it's about moving towards enlightenment.
It's about moving towards emergence with the divine.
Like in whatever way that manifests for you, it is body
develop the system, in fact.
Yeah.
And, and it used to be, it used to be a, got it aspirational to hear
about like these advanced yogis, quote unquote, who would sit for 21
days and not have food, not need to go to the toilet, not need to drink,
not have any sort of earthly desires.
And you'd think, wow, that's amazing.
And now I think, wow, that's dysfunctional.
Like, that's like not normal for a body, right?
And so I was starting to have a lot of different physical issues from yoga.
Like, you know, it's very common for women to lose their period.
It's very common for people to develop, to develop different body dysmorphic.
Syndromes or disorders.
It's very common.
Rupert Isaacson: It's interesting cause that isn't talked about.
I I, it's interesting you say it's very common because I mean, I know
so many people in the yoga world.
I myself had not for very long, but I had a, I had a, a pretty good
aang yoga practice myself for a bit until I became a dad and, then
began to self-medicate with beer.
And that went out the window.
Yeah.
But at the, you know, you never heard any of the Yoginis or any of these
people saying, oh, I lost my period.
Or that if they were, they certainly it to themselves.
Jane Pike: I was teaching in the up, I was teaching in the upper echelons
of it at one point, and I'm watching people who are writing for Yoga journal
and I'm watching people who are like on Gaia and I'm watching people that
are like, you know, really at the top, top of the profession there.
And I know them personally and I know that their reality is different
from what they're teaching.
Okay.
Like, and I'm like, this is just not right.
Like this is not, something is really not right here.
And so, For me, you know what I understand now about many of the
practices is that they take people into collapse, which is the point, right?
Like you've got, you're supposed to be at the end of your nervous
system when you pass over.
But the, the collapse feels better to a lot of people.
A because now sensation is absent in the body, which feels safer.
Most people equate any sort of feeling or sensation in the
body with a degree of danger.
You feel more in control because now your conscious brain and your unconscious
brain are more in alignment because again, you're not at war with your body.
And so you feel like you have a semblance of control.
And, that's kind of the, the, the two things that are most stand out.
And you, you, you, you, you do lose like a desire because your body's just not in the
place where it's robust enough to have it.
Rupert Isaacson: When you, when you, so is that the euphoria in collapse?
This is interesting.
Would that be for example?
Jane Pike: Yeah.
In the later stages of collapse, so like motor neuron disease, ms, a lot
of those things are like the later stages of collapse and a lot of the
studies they've done with people show those people to be very happy.
Because the, the, the self-protective mechanism of the body when it is in
that advanced stage of nervous system, I don't wanna say degradation cause
that's not the right word, but just of, of where it's sitting is to actually
like, Create a degree of euphoria as a handholding mechanism basically.
Pump you full of, pump you full of Gilbert with hormones to take
you into a, a smooth transition.
Yeah.
Rupert Isaacson: Is that for as well?
Is that the, that Abe has, you know, when they're looking at the,
while dogs pulling their guts,
Jane Pike: they've gone and they have the, they have the level of
thoughts and the hallucinations and, and they're not feeling the Okay.
Maybe DMT being produced in the pineal gland.
Yeah.
Well, like the, the thing about the nervous system is it is a,
it is designed to lead you in the best way possible towards death.
Like, if you think about it, I, I could see that, I see what you're saying.
Like the body to work supposed work for you, right?
Yeah.
But it's only supposed to happen at like six, for six weeks, right.
When you're old.
But now we're stuck in like 40 years in, in the collapse stage,
you know, for, for, for some people.
And so there's, there's this, this wear and tear that happens, but, okay.
Yeah.
And you know, for me, with the yoga as well, and I, I'll, I don't know, I think
I can speak for a wider audience when I say this, in that like a, aside from the
body denial, that idea of like oneness with consciousness is also, somewhat of
a relief for a lot of people who have.
You know, cultural expectations and sometimes not great experiences around
sex and relationship and, intimacy.
And so it's a ticket out of that, right?
Like if it takes your away from ticket, your body, and that's, it's a ticket out
of that to, to think, okay, well I don't, I just don't even have to deal with that.
Now.
I can be like, I can just be little old me merging with the universal consciousness,
and I get to deny everything that feels uncomfortable in my body.
I get to deny everything that feels uncomfortable emotionally.
I get to deny, deny, deny, and just move towards this.
And because actually being in a body affirming, life-affirming
practice is freaking hard, right?
Because then you have to be in life.
And life is hard sometimes.
Rupert Isaacson: I get it.
I get it.
So if you're, but if you're a mom, you know, dealing with your ki you,
you haven't got that option, right?
You've gotta, you've gotta get up, you've gotta deal with your kids,
you've gotta have these relationships.
You've gotta, you've gotta deal with life with the sensory system,
with other people's sensory systems.
Jane Pike: Well, the, the mohans would say that this is not a
practice for family age people.
Okay?
Okay.
Because you have responsibilities.
This is the practice for when you get to be, you know, older.
Rupert Isaacson: So if you, if you are a mom or a dad, going through
what moms and dads go through, then.
And you are firmly stuck in the,
Jane Pike: then the asana part of the yoga journey is your emphasis
at that point, the posture part.
Okay.
But it becomes less and less about posture.
Right.
And then it becomes more and more about, , emergence with
the divine and one point of,
Rupert Isaacson: but, but with your, with your work, then if I'm me dad,
I'm dad, you know, dealing with dad stuff, I'll be up early tomorrow
morning dealing with dad's stuff.
There is no choice but to deal with relationships.
There is no choice but to Yes.
Yes.
Then, then delving into my nervous system can help me to respond
appropriately to what's in front of me.
Yeah, absolutely.
It just depends what, what Give, give me tools, right?
Jane Pike: Yeah, absolutely.
It's just about like, now I have the capacity to show up and meet what I need
to show up for in a way that's real.
Okay.
And some people will opt out of that, by the way.
Yeah.
Some people will opt out of that because it bring, brings a degree of discomfort
to be able to meet what's real.
Sometimes you recognize your situation needs to change or your relationship
needs to change, or you are not actually doing something that fulfills
you or this wasn't the choice that you would've liked to have made.
And so you have to meet that.
You have to meet that.
And, and that's takes.
Resilience.
That takes courage, that takes, you know, a lot of what we're
fed in the world at the moment.
No, I'm gonna go to a cave and just meditate.
Thanks very much.
Really.
But really you can see that's an attractive option, right?
Meeting the reality is not necessarily an attractive option,
but I, I decided that like I would rather meet the reality in the full
discomfort than be in the delusion.
Rupert Isaacson: So, and was it, in that meeting of the reality, would you
say that your pain began to dissipate?
Jane Pike: Yeah, so, the body, the way the body leverages movement is different from
sympathetic, so different from the fight flight system to the parasympathetic.
So when I'm looking to create movement in the fight flight
system, it's my lower back and my neck that leveraged the movement.
The, the lower back is what is fueling movement in the lower part
of the body and the, neck fuels the movement of the shoulder girdle,
so moving in and out of the tube.
And I think one of the missing pieces of information out there is that the,
oh, I've just lost my train of thought, is that when we, when we think about,
movement patterns, your movement is either rooted in your sympathetic
nervous system or it's rooted in your parasympathetic nervous system.
And so the movement patterns themselves are.
The way that your body creates movement is basically, a product of
where your nervous system is sitting.
And so for me, I was stuck in a dominant mode of functioning, if you think about it
like that, like a dominantly sympathetic or fight flight mode of functioning.
And the way that my body was achieving everyday activities like walking
around, going up and down steps, like getting up and down off the
couch was a fight flight action.
The dominant, mode of functioning was fight flight.
And so even if my emotional framework didn't warrant a fight, flight response,
the way that my movement was dominantly geared was in the fight flight system.
So I was just firing off my nervous system every time I moved around.
So overall, because, my lu spine is working so hard and my cervical spine
is working so hard, from such an early age, and we tend to be gifted the nervous
system of our mothers and our primary caregivers, I was just creating so much
compression and leverage in my body that it was resulting in, chronic pain.
And so when I changed the underlying nervous system state and changed
the way that my body was leveraging movement, I don't get the pain anymore.
Rupert Isaacson: Was that the aha moment?
What point, at what point did you realize, oh my gosh, this is happening?
Jane Pike: I instantly changed.
So when I got, when I had a couple of questions answered
that I hadn't had answered for a long time, I was like, Shit.
Basically that was my first response because it's like, I've built this body
of work on all of this study I've done over the last 20 years, and now I'm
sitting here on a Zoom call realizing that actually I've got some stuff wrong.
And so I am going to completely redo my program from the ground up.
And that's what I did.
And I told people, I was like, so you know how you've been working
with me for like a really long time and we've been doing this stuff?
Rupert Isaacson: Oh really?
You had to go to, by now you've got the online memberships and all that.
You had to go back and say, oh, by the way, that was all redid.
Jane Pike: The whole thing.
That was all whole, now we have to, yeah.
Wow.
That's great.
I didn't think, I didn't think it was all shy, but I was like, I, I've got
some question, I've got some answers here to holes that have been in the
program and we're gonna take it from the ground up and I'm gonna change it.
So you've got six months to go through what I've got here, and in six months
time we're wiping it and starting again.
Rupert Isaacson: Was it when you went through that kind of reboot?
So you, you, by this time, you've actually established an, a successful
online business, which presumably is getting results and helping
people otherwise people would Yes.
It's right.
Right.
It is.
So did you have, did you have some confusion for people
say, well, hold on Jay.
It's actually working for me.
Why should I, why do I need to do this other stuff?
Jane Pike: Yeah.
There are definitely people that were a little cross with me.
Not many.
I think that what I, I guess.
I don't know, maybe people just didn't tell me.
That's another thing.
The people that talked to me were very nice, but I guess one of the
things that I have always, how long ago was this, would you say that?
You, you said Okay.
I, so probably two or three years ago that I really changed the whole foundation.
Yeah.
Okay.
Quite recently.
Yeah.
And I, I took people a, i I gave people a chance.
Of course, they didn't have to stay with me.
And it was quite scary because Yeah, I bet, you know, I'm the breadwinner and
I've created this successful thing, and now it's just so intolerable to me to
not be in alignment with what I teach.
I just could, once I knew something different and I was practicing something
different, I'm like, I can't teach people any different to what I'm doing.
Like I, that's just, it.
Just So there was no decision, like it was, well, I guess you were inviting
'em to go along with the evolution.
Yes, but not, but nonetheless, that is, that is a brave step.
Not everybody would, as you said.
Yes.
You know, some of the yoga people perhaps that you met were walking one
talk and walking, one walking, and some things that I teach now are a complete
180 from what I was doing before.
Okay.
And so, but I can say why and, and I think one of the advantages maybe
that I have within my membership is that, this is an advantage or not.
I've always been really honest.
Like I'm just, I, I, I really see myself as adventuring with these,
this group of incredible people.
And I don't.
Discount their opinion or their thoughts, or, it's not like my way or the highway.
It's just like, this is, this is information.
Right?
And one of the things that I've really learned about teaching, and I attempt to
practice in life to varying with varying degrees of success, is that in order to
be honest, you have to be willing to lose.
So I was willing for everyone to leave me.
I had to be willing for everyone to leave me in order to be able
to present something new, because if I wasn't willing for people to
leave, I wouldn't have done it.
And so I was like, okay, I'm just gonna lay it all on the table.
And, I don't think hardly anyone left.
Like, and then it took a while, there was a transition, but I'd already
been practicing for a good period of time before I started teaching it.
Because of course, there's a, and that was a really annoying part of the
practice as well, because coming from someone who's like, okay, gimme the book.
Give me all the shit.
I'm gonna sit down for a weekend, and by Monday I'm gonna have this
nailed, and then I'll teach it.
It wa it wasn't something that I could, think my way through this
was a, an unconscious, like I had to have a, a resonance in my body
and understanding in my body of the process before I could teach it.
And so that required some practice on my part.
And then I just said, right, okay, July, we're changing.
You've got this amount of time.
And I started to like cross pollinate conversations.
So to bring in the material in conversation before we taught it.
And, and then, and then it took a while for people to get into.
And, yeah.
Rupert Isaacson: So, so back to the where we began, which is what this
whole podcast is about, which is about self-actualization of people
who led self-actualized lives or, and are leading self-actualized lives.
from the outside observing your, you appear to be self-actualizing.
What I mean by that, it's, you began with, a problem to fix and a quest to go on.
Some of it unconscious, some of it conscious.
And then there were multiple reboots where every time, this is just sort of
observing the story from the outside, every time you had sort of achieved a
certain thing in a certain area, whether it was being the good girl school, whether
it was, the human rights work, whether it was getting a, a mastery of this
certain aspect of yoga, and then say, actually no, it's this aspect of yoga.
And then saying, no, actually I'm going back.
I'm gonna work in retail, but I'm gonna, I'm gonna write.
And now I'm gonna build that.
And what a confused individual.
And meanwhile I'm gonna keep this writing thing going parallel.
I've achieved a certain mastery sort of showing as a teen and young adult.
But now moving away from that, I'm gonna move into this other aspect of horseman.
You haven't really touched on that much, but I'd like to come back
and do that in the next podcast.
What, what, what emerges is a picture of growth where it's almost like you
see, you know, from seedling to sapling to, I'm not suggesting that you're
a big mature wide tree, but you know what I mean, you know, mighty, mighty.
But you know, that, that that this maturing process and is so,
it, it brings into my mind is, is self, is self-actualization.
In fact, to a large degree maturing and not maturing mean,
you know, you use growing up, God forbid any of us ever do that.
And I wonder if the mighty yo, you know, considers itself to be grown up.
Or it says, actually I still want to be a, I still want to be a
big grown up tree one day, even though I'm now a hundred foot tall.
And Yeah.
is that what goes through trees minds?
But the, it, it's really interesting to see, you know, people.
I'd like to come back this, I think that every, a lot of listeners will
have questions like, well, how did you build the business and how did
you, you know, what is the secret of success of an online thing?
And I, and, and I, I'd like to invite people to send those questions
and we'll have Jane back Gifting your spleen to the universe.
That's right.
And, and Jane, we'll explain these things to you and we will have
another podcast in which you will send these very natural questions.
And, and Jane will tell you how to make billions on the internet.
But that's not what you set out to do.
That's, that's the interesting thing to me.
You didn't sit down and say, okay, I'm gonna become this super successful
online business showing people how to get back to their nervous systems in a
way that's gonna improve their lives.
It evolved out of a desire to share and write about that, which you
knew, which you need to be helpful.
And then from there, you learned some online business skills, which again, yes.
We, I, I, I, I think we should have you back and it would be
great to hear how you did that.
Cause I think that's useful for a lot of people.
But nonetheless, that doesn't seem to be in the primary motivation.
It seems that the primary motivation was simply the acquisition
sharing of this knowledge.
Would I be right in saying that?
Jane Pike: Yeah, totally.
I just had a, an energy to do that.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
That was, It's a seeking energy as well.
Like it's, I talk about intellectual energy.
I don't know if that's the right word, but like, I love to be considering
and seeking and finding information and and sharing information.
For me that was like a very rewarding process.
It was, to, to do that and to share and to find people finding that useful.
And like I said, it was, I mean, it was a couple of years before I even considered
that that was a, anything there was anything financially viable in that.
I mean, that was kind of a shock to even consider that someone
would find me useful in a way that they would actually wanna pay me.
And that wasn't like a, a thought in the beginning.
And then, you know, the second thing out of that, just from a business perspective,
cuz I kind of, well without downplaying other people's, experiences, I sort of
chuckle to myself sometimes when people will email me and they'll like, now
I've been doing this thing for three months now and I haven't made money.
I was like, I work for five years without making any money.
Like, it's like without even, it's just, you know, this kind of, I think the,
the internet breeds like an instant idea of being able to financially translate
something into dollars, you know?
and so not to say that that's gonna be other people's experience, but just to,
it is, it is sort of difficult to, Yeah.
To, to put a, I've forgotten the question that you asked me.
I feel like I,
Rupert Isaacson: well, it, it's about self-actualization and, and so what,
what, what comes to mind, maybe I'll pose this question slightly differently.
Would you say that actually, one of the keys to self-actualization
is putting what you do in service?
Jane Pike: Yeah.
And just being unemployable.
I think I'm completely unemployable.
Like the idea of working with someone else is so unacceptable to me that
like, I, I just, I really loathe and I mean this, like, I really loathe having
my schedule dictated by someone else.
Yeah.
Like the thought of having to get up and go.
I just, I actually can't think of anything worse.
Like, I love to be able to go and I work really hard actually, but I decide I'm
Pick yourself Jane, your your schedule is completely dictated by your kids.
That's true.
They're your bosses, but yeah, that's true.
Yes.
Yeah.
Which is why I've struggled so much in very much I know the feeling.
Yes.
Yeah.
Rupert Isaacson: But it, it seems to me too that that's been the other,
that's been the other, long, you know, concurrent par, you know, thread
through the story is that there's been an element of service at each step.
Oh, totally.
Yeah.
And that without that, I wonder if one can self-actualize, because.
Without that, you know, it, it's interesting, like, is somebody who
makes an awful lot of money but without an element of service, without
an element of sharing, without an element of, is that self-actualization?
You know, that's, that's a question for the listeners.
I, you know, I wonder, but it seems to me that the, you know, fulfillment must
come with a feeling of satisfaction that you can't just get from dopamine.
Haha, I got these zeros in my bank account.
I got you.
Well, it, it's gotta come from something richer.
Well, I think my work, everything about my work is there's a,
it's reciprocal in nature.
Mm.
Like it's, I benefit in the best possible way from my work.
I benefit from it not only in knowledge and I get to share that knowledge,
which if anyone has ever taught anything, you know, that you really
have to know something to teach it.
Cuz that's shut to show up what you don't know when you start
to explain it to someone else.
So there's a, you know, I've always launched myself into sharing knowledge,
which has forced me to really understand what it is that I am.
Sharing because, that process of like, you know, learn, do, teach,
I, I, I activate very quickly.
But beyond that, I, I have an incredible community of people that I work with.
and I include my horses within that, and they save me many times.
They save me.
You know, I, on tough days or hard days that we all have, I, I still show
up and I feel different after I've taught than I do at the beginning.
And that's because it's not just me, right?
Like it's an energetic exchange and, I feel equally valued and hopefully they
feel valued and loved and appreciated and respected, as part of the process as well.
And I think that that's, you know, that kind of experience is
not something that you would ever gain by just selling a product.
For me it's, you know, there's a couple of questions that I get asked, which is like,
how do I get to do what you are doing?
And I'm like, I've got no idea.
Because so much of what I'm doing has been informed by my life experience.
It's not so much just about like, sure, you can learn these things, you can
study with these people and you can do that, but it's not quite just that.
So I don't know.
You kind of, you have to do you, which is like the, You know, a, a bit of a
hard statement to say, but as well, you know, there's also a idea of passive
income and of like floating off on the island and that sort of thing.
And on the one hand, some days that sounds very, very appealing.
But actually, ultimately when it comes down to it, I'm not really interested
in just like the, the, the success in whatever way that has manifested, I
believe comes through the connection.
Having, seen your joy ride community in action, I was lucky
enough to meet some of them.
I can definitely attest to that.
It seems an unusually mutually supportive, very incredible.
Like, it's not like, you know, someone, someone going online to do multi-level
marketing or something like that.
Not necessarily anything wrong with that, but you know, you know why, you
know why you're getting into that.
You, I, I wanna go and I wouldn't sold these products in order to
make money so I can get free.
And, but really what people are saying I feel, I feel when they're going into
those things is, yes, I want to be free.
I feel that the money will make me free.
You have achieved that freedom and to a large degree that it,
that is also financial money does give one of these choices.
Obviously you didn't start there,
but I do wonder if, Those who are trying to go into an online business like yours
with the idea of making money as the primary goal, even if they were to achieve
that, would they feel self actualized?
Would they feel,
Jane Pike: I, I wonder if that's enough for what it takes,
you know, for the longevity.
I wonder if that's enough because it's, it's a lot of work.
Not to say that people are work shy.
It's definitely a lot of work.
Like I, I work a lot.
And so you are doing live sessions with people all the time.
On, on, on, yeah.
All the time.
And then making content.
Yeah.
Right.
Yeah.
On, on the daily Most, for the most part.
And then, you know, there's hours, right?
Yeah.
There's lots of other things that come into it, but, and
I mean, maybe it's enough.
Maybe it's enough to keep going.
But for me, I, I mean, I don't even know how much money I earn.
I've got no idea.
I mean, I don't mean that to sound like I don't even know how much money I own.
Like I have enough to like, but, but I don't, I don't look at the Yeah, I don't,
it's not the, you're not keeping score.
No.
And I guess that's a privilege because there must be enough coming in to not
have to keep score to know that I can pay the bills each month, which is a thing.
But yeah, it's not like, ooh, like it's, it's, it's just
like I would keep doing it.
Even if 10 people, five people, I, I dunno what else I would do.
Like I, if someone said to me, you know, and, and occasionally you get
used to this question like, what would you do if you won the lottery?
It's like, well actually, I'd, I'd be doing the same thing.
I, I would be doing the same thing.
I'd probably have an indoor arena
and there would be a few tweaks, but, but you know, as far as like where
my life energy is being invested, I would be doing the same thing.
Yeah.
Just with like a really, really freaking nice saddle or something else like that.
But like, yeah, like, I'm not gonna deny things, but Yeah.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
But you, you're, you're doing that which you love.
Rupert Isaacson: Yeah.
Well, with that, I mean, we, we we're at two and a half hours here and, there's,
there's more that we could go into.
And I think, so one of the things that I promised the, the, the Liberty rivalry
listeners is that we then will have each person back to answer the questions.
Oh, I'm sorry about that.
Throw in.
So would you, would you, would you consent to come back and, absolutely.
Yeah.
So let's have them listeners, send in your questions to Jane.
She's a wealth of knowledge.
It can be on the, how did you do it?
It can be on the how, on the, what do you do?
It could be on the, tell me more about that.
Parasympathetic or sympathetic.
Tell me more about those body maps.
Jane, turned me onto a book.
Is it The Body Has A Mind of Its Own?
Yes, yes.
About body maps and, brain maps, which even though I thought I
knew quite a lot about the nervous system, I realized I didn't.
And it was fascinating.
And there's much, much, much more to learn.
And I think next time we come back, Jane, I want to talk to you
in more detail about that because now we've sort of had your story.
I'd like to go into more depth about this, with
Jane Pike: Yeah, I'm, I'm happy to answer questions on anything.
Like there's really No, because it's helpful.
Rupert Isaacson: I, I, I think a lot of us walk around in a state of
anxiety and we don't even know why.
You know, I, I think, I think that that's one of the, one of
the symptoms of the modern age.
Hold on.
You know, my life's good.
I've got a nice job.
I, you know, I've got enough to eat, blah, blah, blah.
Why?
Why do I feel so shit?
And I think that this is a question at the heart of our, our
societal experience at the moment.
We've never had it so good, really as a species, and yet we seem to
have never been quite so unhappy.
Yeah.
Why is that?
Jane Pike: And I think as well, like one of the, platform that's not as
openly or often discussed in this.
I doubt it goes outside what you wanna talk about here, but maybe it does, but
I'll throw it in here and we can always talk about it somewhere else as well.
It's just like that, you know, you and me have done those vitality
workshops together as well, and like discussed what that means or what that
looks like to live in a vital way.
And, to me, the essence of what I was attempting to escape from, I think
with a lot of the yoga practices, just me personally, like, again, I don't
wanna paint a brush, but like, is really common for people's experiences.
You know, like the, the, the struggles that we have with like ourselves,
our relationship to ourselves, our relationship to others, our relationship
to intimacy, our relationship to sexual expression, our relationship
to passion, all of those things like really, all the difficult stuff.
We separate them.
Yeah, we separate them, but then they're, they're not separate.
And yet it's still kind of a little bit taboo when we talk about this type of,
these types of conversations or just not as openly discussed or talked about.
And so that's really interesting to me as well.
I mean, I get lots of, get lots of, it's not quite the right word.
I, I have the honor of working with a lot of women in my program that are.
In their seventies or in their sixties, and they got married very
young and it's like they have one foot in a time where women's rights
and expectations were very different.
And another foot in this modern era where they recognize and see all these
different opportunities around them.
And, and perhaps they've changed and their husband hasn't or like,
you know, and how to negotiate that.
All of the, when we talk about self-actualization, and I feel
like there's a lot of people in this like transition point both
in time and both physiologically and both mentally and emotionally.
That means that they're kind of a little bit at war with themselves.
And yeah, that being of a sort of inner schizophrenia almost.
Yeah, this's just a really interesting point.
I just wanted to throw that in there alongside the nervous system
stuff and alongside the other stuff.
Cause it's interesting.
Rupert Isaacson: Well, if you, so, listeners, if you're, if you are, if
you got that, you've got that inner conflict, send us in the questions.
What do I do about it?
Please, Jane.
Jane will sort you out.
Tell, tell us how people can contact you and where they can find you.
Jane Pike: Well, you can send love.
You can just sit there and send really good vibes all the way through
and it'll be happily received.
But if you do wanna directly contact me, you can jump on my website.
Confident writer.online is the best place to find me.
And I'm on, on the socials as well.
Or you can email me Jane competent writer.online and,
Jane Confident writer.online.
Yeah.
And I will merely online reply.
Yeah.
Give me a few days.
Sometimes I'm a little behind on emails, but it's not personal.
yeah.
So that, that would be amazing to hear from people.
Rupert Isaacson: Okay.
Well then, I can't wait till we can have you back.
Jane, thanks so much for such a pleasure gracing us with
your story and your wisdom.
Happy me.
For those of you, who want to hear more, we'll be having Jane back, to hear
our other podcast on equine assisted, interventions, equine Assisted World.
go to us@longridehome.com and if you're interested in the work we
do with Autism, the Brain, and all the other stuff, ntls.co.
Neutra, Neutra Learning Systems co.
Send your your questions to Jane, but do bother with me to send the questions
so that I can ask them of Jane.
So please send the questions, say, I've got these questions for Jane.
How'd you do it?
Blah, blah, blah.
And then we can have her back and she can tell us.
All right, Jane, thank you so much.
Thank you so much.
All right, see you next time.
Okay, bye.
Bye.
Thank you for joining us.
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