1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:06,000 < Intro > 2 00:00:06,000 --> 00:00:07,334 – Welcome back to Count Me In. 3 00:00:07,334 --> 00:00:11,420 In today's episode, we have a special guest joining us, Paul McManus. 4 00:00:11,420 --> 00:00:15,667 To discuss the power of personal branding for accounting and finance professionals. 5 00:00:15,710 --> 00:00:19,859 Paul is a podcast host, the author of the book The Short Formula, 6 00:00:19,859 --> 00:00:23,590 and the co-founder and CEO of More Clients More Fun. 7 00:00:23,590 --> 00:00:27,667 We'll explore why personal branding is crucial in today's competitive landscape, 8 00:00:27,730 --> 00:00:31,167 and how it can elevate your status as an expert in your field. 9 00:00:31,167 --> 00:00:35,000 Paul, an accomplished author, with multiple bestsellers on Amazon, 10 00:00:35,000 --> 00:00:37,167 will share his insights on how creating a book 11 00:00:37,167 --> 00:00:41,110 can enhance your personal brand and establish you as a thought leader. 12 00:00:41,110 --> 00:00:44,333 We'll also touch upon the challenges professionals face when approaching 13 00:00:44,333 --> 00:00:47,500 the idea of writing a book and how to overcome them. 14 00:00:47,500 --> 00:00:48,500 Let's get started. 15 00:00:48,500 --> 00:00:55,000 < Music > 16 00:00:55,000 --> 00:00:57,333 Paul, I want to thank you so much for coming on the podcast, today. 17 00:00:57,333 --> 00:00:59,289 We're really excited to talk about personal branding 18 00:00:59,289 --> 00:01:02,329 and becoming better versions of ourselves through that type of work. 19 00:01:02,329 --> 00:01:03,667 And, maybe, we can start off 20 00:01:03,667 --> 00:01:06,333 by talking about why things like personal branding are, 21 00:01:06,333 --> 00:01:10,500 especially, important for today's accounting and finance professional. 22 00:01:10,500 --> 00:01:13,090 – Definitely, thank you for having me, I appreciate being here. 23 00:01:13,090 --> 00:01:14,970 I think personal branding is one of the things, 24 00:01:14,970 --> 00:01:16,750 whether you're a small business owner, 25 00:01:16,750 --> 00:01:21,310 or whether you work at a firm, as a professional. 26 00:01:21,310 --> 00:01:23,570 At the end of the day, when you're growing your business, 27 00:01:23,570 --> 00:01:28,833 or whether you're looking for promotions and to make a bigger impact in your world. 28 00:01:28,833 --> 00:01:32,833 Nothing, well, not nothing, but personal branding can be one of those things 29 00:01:32,833 --> 00:01:37,000 that help you differentiate yourself from everybody else. 30 00:01:37,079 --> 00:01:42,229 One of the ways that I, primarily, focus on to help professionals 31 00:01:42,229 --> 00:01:47,166 with their personal branding is to help them write and publish a book. 32 00:01:47,166 --> 00:01:52,640 Which I know is something, again, I talk to a lot of financial professionals 33 00:01:52,640 --> 00:01:57,570 and I ask them if they've considered it, and many have. 34 00:01:57,570 --> 00:02:00,549 But it just seems like one of those daunting tasks 35 00:02:00,549 --> 00:02:04,159 that it's on someone's bucket list, but they never quite get to. 36 00:02:04,159 --> 00:02:06,833 So, as part of the personal branding question that you asked, 37 00:02:06,833 --> 00:02:13,333 I'd love to deep dive, as appropriate, into how a book can really help accountants, 38 00:02:13,333 --> 00:02:17,333 and other finance professionals really take their personal brand to the next level. 39 00:02:17,410 --> 00:02:20,400 – Yes, definitely, when you think about writing a book, 40 00:02:20,400 --> 00:02:22,840 some people think, "Oh, no, I have to write this thousand-page book, 41 00:02:22,840 --> 00:02:25,620 and it's going to take six years, ten years of my life. 42 00:02:25,620 --> 00:02:28,270 But if anybody has looked at the show notes for this event, 43 00:02:28,270 --> 00:02:29,340 if they've looked at what you do. 44 00:02:29,340 --> 00:02:32,999 They've seen you written multiple books and they've been on Amazon bestseller. 45 00:02:33,120 --> 00:02:34,120 So how does creating that book 46 00:02:34,120 --> 00:02:36,840 really enhance your personal brand and elevate your status? 47 00:02:36,999 --> 00:02:39,666 – Yes, writing a book is one of those things 48 00:02:39,666 --> 00:02:43,999 that has a long history that people respect. 49 00:02:43,999 --> 00:02:47,832 I think there's really two things that help professionals stand out. 50 00:02:47,832 --> 00:02:50,832 One is writing a book, another is public speaking. 51 00:02:50,832 --> 00:02:53,832 There is the old quip from Jerry Seinfeld 52 00:02:53,832 --> 00:02:57,250 on the public speaking side that if you're at a funeral; 53 00:02:57,250 --> 00:03:00,920 would you rather be giving the eulogy or be in the casket? 54 00:03:00,920 --> 00:03:03,166 And the joke was, well, most people would rather be in the casket 55 00:03:03,166 --> 00:03:05,332 because they're terrified of public speaking. 56 00:03:05,332 --> 00:03:08,200 But I think just the act of getting up and speaking in front of people, 57 00:03:08,200 --> 00:03:11,910 is just one of those things that most people are afraid of, and so they respect. 58 00:03:11,910 --> 00:03:14,832 It's the same thing for writing a book. 59 00:03:14,832 --> 00:03:17,129 It's something that just in our culture, 60 00:03:17,129 --> 00:03:21,250 there's a tremendous respect for someone who's put in the work, 61 00:03:21,250 --> 00:03:26,332 done the work, and who has written and published a book. 62 00:03:26,332 --> 00:03:30,665 Because it's one of those things that really differentiate yourself 63 00:03:30,665 --> 00:03:32,499 from everybody else in the field. 64 00:03:32,499 --> 00:03:35,332 It's one of those things that people think about, talk about, 65 00:03:35,332 --> 00:03:38,332 and more often than not, never do. 66 00:03:38,332 --> 00:03:42,999 And there's a variety of benefits to doing it, personal branding be one of them, 67 00:03:42,999 --> 00:03:44,999 which we can go deeper on. 68 00:03:44,999 --> 00:03:50,499 And, then, there's also a variety of reasons why people never take that action. 69 00:03:50,499 --> 00:03:55,500 So, on the plus side, we want to be clear about why do it. 70 00:03:55,500 --> 00:03:57,665 There's a great Simon Sinek talk about 71 00:03:57,665 --> 00:04:00,310 begin with why, and when your why is clear, 72 00:04:00,310 --> 00:04:04,410 then, you get that much more clear on the motivation and the how. 73 00:04:04,410 --> 00:04:09,498 And, so, let's talk about the why, from a multiple ways to think about it. 74 00:04:09,498 --> 00:04:14,498 So, again, if you are one of those professionals that does any work 75 00:04:14,498 --> 00:04:15,940 in the capacity, as a business owner. 76 00:04:15,940 --> 00:04:20,998 So let's say maybe you're a fractional CFO and you're looking to attract clients. 77 00:04:21,120 --> 00:04:24,540 Let's say that you work with clients themselves 78 00:04:24,540 --> 00:04:28,449 and, maybe, what you do is more difficult to understand. 79 00:04:28,449 --> 00:04:34,998 The ability to articulate your core knowledge through a book, 80 00:04:34,998 --> 00:04:40,498 way that is interesting and simplifies it to an outside audience. 81 00:04:40,540 --> 00:04:45,831 Especially an outside audience of non-experts, is a very powerful way 82 00:04:45,831 --> 00:04:47,498 simply to communicate. 83 00:04:47,498 --> 00:04:53,165 I find that writing a book, it's a personal growth endeavor. 84 00:04:53,165 --> 00:04:55,998 Oftentimes you start with a blank page 85 00:04:55,998 --> 00:04:58,498 and you think, "Okay, what do I know about this topic?" 86 00:04:58,498 --> 00:05:01,165 And after a few minutes, you're like, "Oh, that's it." 87 00:05:01,165 --> 00:05:03,770 And, so, you have to say, "Wait a minute, I know more than this." 88 00:05:03,770 --> 00:05:07,831 And it really challenges you to think about what you know, 89 00:05:07,831 --> 00:05:12,539 and why is that important, and who's interested in that. 90 00:05:12,539 --> 00:05:14,910 How can you communicate that in a way that's effective? 91 00:05:14,910 --> 00:05:16,165 How can you use stories? 92 00:05:16,165 --> 00:05:19,740 Oftentimes, especially, with accountants and other finance professionals, 93 00:05:19,740 --> 00:05:22,110 what I find is that there's a lot of jargon. 94 00:05:22,110 --> 00:05:23,331 There's a lot of technical terms. 95 00:05:23,331 --> 00:05:26,164 There's a lot of things that they understand implicitly 96 00:05:26,164 --> 00:05:30,831 through experience and study, but for a non-expert, they get lost. 97 00:05:30,831 --> 00:05:34,498 And, so, it's how do you communicate ideas in such a way 98 00:05:34,498 --> 00:05:38,498 that is relatable to whomever you're speaking to? 99 00:05:38,498 --> 00:05:40,331 And, so, throughout that process, 100 00:05:40,331 --> 00:05:43,331 and we talked about personal branding a little bit, but it really helps you 101 00:05:43,331 --> 00:05:49,164 create leadership skills, communication skills, and those things all come together. 102 00:05:49,164 --> 00:05:53,990 And, so, whether you're looking to sell more, get a promotion, 103 00:05:53,990 --> 00:05:55,998 or simply be more effective at your job. 104 00:05:55,998 --> 00:05:58,729 The act of writing and publishing a book 105 00:05:58,729 --> 00:06:02,164 is an amazing vehicle to help supercharge those efforts. 106 00:06:02,409 --> 00:06:05,620 – Mm, yes, it's interesting because when you think about it, 107 00:06:05,620 --> 00:06:07,370 if you don't know how to explain what you're doing. 108 00:06:07,370 --> 00:06:10,730 If you don't know how to articulate it in a very good way. 109 00:06:10,730 --> 00:06:15,497 How can you be that storyteller, be that business partner? 110 00:06:15,497 --> 00:06:19,130 Whether you're in a firm and you're trying to go alongside the C-suite 111 00:06:19,130 --> 00:06:21,831 and make sure you're telling the story right, of what's happening financially. 112 00:06:21,831 --> 00:06:25,980 But, also, if you're trying to build your own business, you got to be that. 113 00:06:25,980 --> 00:06:28,440 And there's that word that comes up, thought leader, 114 00:06:28,440 --> 00:06:31,997 and I think that word is thrown around a little too much. 115 00:06:31,997 --> 00:06:34,164 But, maybe, you can explain what does it mean to be a thought leader 116 00:06:34,164 --> 00:06:36,331 and how does that boost your brand, 117 00:06:36,331 --> 00:06:39,497 as you're building up this idea of writing a book? 118 00:06:39,497 --> 00:06:41,664 – Yes, I like that question. 119 00:06:41,664 --> 00:06:47,164 So before I get into thought leader, I want to talk about one of the opposites, almost. 120 00:06:47,310 --> 00:06:51,497 And it's an idea that you, probably, heard of and is known as Impostor Syndrome. 121 00:06:51,497 --> 00:06:56,497 And there are so many people that I talk to, come to me in one of two ways 122 00:06:56,497 --> 00:06:58,130 when we start talking about writing a book. 123 00:06:58,130 --> 00:07:01,997 On the one side, it's either "I have so much knowledge 124 00:07:01,997 --> 00:07:04,139 that I want to share with the world." 125 00:07:04,139 --> 00:07:07,669 And then, of course, they run into the challenge of "Where do I start?" 126 00:07:07,669 --> 00:07:11,370 On the other side, it's, "Who am I to talk about these ideas? 127 00:07:11,370 --> 00:07:13,664 What I do is very average and ordinary. 128 00:07:13,664 --> 00:07:16,900 Would people be interested in what I know?" 129 00:07:16,900 --> 00:07:19,164 And that's a form of Impostor Syndrome. 130 00:07:19,164 --> 00:07:24,664 And, so, as a starting point, in either case, what I love to be able to help people do. 131 00:07:24,789 --> 00:07:27,020 On the one side, if they have a lot of knowledge 132 00:07:27,020 --> 00:07:28,130 and ideas that they want to share, 133 00:07:28,130 --> 00:07:32,330 is how do you simplify and focus that to a core message. 134 00:07:32,330 --> 00:07:36,389 That you have a core audience for and it resonates with them, 135 00:07:36,389 --> 00:07:39,970 and they're motivated to learn more about, ultimately, 136 00:07:39,970 --> 00:07:43,630 how you can help solve a problem, in most cases. 137 00:07:43,630 --> 00:07:47,497 Help them create that transformation from where they are to where they want to be, 138 00:07:47,539 --> 00:07:51,663 and do so in a compelling way that engages them and interests them. 139 00:07:51,663 --> 00:07:54,497 Then on the other side, if someone is stuck and thinking, 140 00:07:54,497 --> 00:07:55,680 "What do I have to share?" 141 00:07:55,680 --> 00:07:59,340 What I love doing with them, is really showing them 142 00:07:59,340 --> 00:08:02,830 it's like almost falling in love again, 143 00:08:02,830 --> 00:08:05,280 with all the amazing knowledge that you've learned. 144 00:08:05,280 --> 00:08:08,830 I mean, all of us, we've put years into our craft, into our profession. 145 00:08:08,830 --> 00:08:12,830 We've learned really cool things and, over time, because it becomes so routine 146 00:08:12,830 --> 00:08:15,996 and we don't actively think about it, let's say we get bored of it. 147 00:08:16,020 --> 00:08:19,669 Or it's just so routine that we forget how amazing it was, 148 00:08:19,669 --> 00:08:22,190 the first time that we, actually, learned how to do something. 149 00:08:22,190 --> 00:08:23,379 The first time I learned how to do something, 150 00:08:23,379 --> 00:08:24,830 I'm like, "This is the best thing ever." 151 00:08:24,830 --> 00:08:28,163 And, then, a week later, or a month later, it's like "I do that all the time." 152 00:08:28,300 --> 00:08:30,000 So I wanted to establish that first. 153 00:08:30,000 --> 00:08:33,850 Because, now, when you think about a thought leader—what is a thought leader? 154 00:08:33,850 --> 00:08:36,970 And there's a progression of what's considered a thought leader. 155 00:08:36,970 --> 00:08:41,663 But, I think, first and foremost, it's someone who's perceived 156 00:08:41,663 --> 00:08:43,663 to be an expert on a subject. 157 00:08:43,663 --> 00:08:48,230 I think a lot of people go to university, get degrees, 158 00:08:48,230 --> 00:08:50,663 have some initials after their name, 159 00:08:50,663 --> 00:08:52,160 but I don't think they're perceived as thought leaders. 160 00:08:52,160 --> 00:08:55,240 I think that's considered pretty standard, pretty average. 161 00:08:55,240 --> 00:08:59,329 But someone that's willing to go publicly and put their ideas out in public 162 00:08:59,329 --> 00:09:03,829 in the form of a book, or speaking and talking about a book. 163 00:09:03,850 --> 00:09:06,329 And when people listen to them or read their work, they see that 164 00:09:06,329 --> 00:09:11,496 they have a point of view, a cohesive set of ideas, and they can explain that 165 00:09:11,496 --> 00:09:15,339 in such a way that's informative or persuasive. 166 00:09:15,339 --> 00:09:19,170 That becomes the basis, in my mind, at least, of becoming a thought leader. 167 00:09:19,170 --> 00:09:24,496 Now, the more exposure you get, the more media you do, the more you write, 168 00:09:24,600 --> 00:09:25,910 the more people are aware of you. 169 00:09:25,910 --> 00:09:32,162 I think that, then, grows your influence and, by definition, your thought leadership, 170 00:09:32,210 --> 00:09:35,320 and that's just really a factor of awareness of what you do. 171 00:09:35,320 --> 00:09:39,162 And, so, the more people you talk to, the more people know your work, 172 00:09:39,162 --> 00:09:42,329 the bigger your, quote-unquote, "Thought leadership" becomes. 173 00:09:42,329 --> 00:09:44,680 I think at the end of the day, though, and what I do, 174 00:09:44,680 --> 00:09:49,662 I attract a lot of my clients through LinkedIn, and these are people 175 00:09:49,662 --> 00:09:51,800 that I don't know who they are. 176 00:09:51,800 --> 00:09:55,496 I've reached out to them in some form, or I've created awareness in some form 177 00:09:55,496 --> 00:09:57,662 because I work with financial professionals. 178 00:09:57,662 --> 00:10:00,829 And, so, they are attracted by marketing in one way or the other. 179 00:10:00,829 --> 00:10:03,190 They read my book, they listen to a podcast, 180 00:10:03,190 --> 00:10:05,496 and then, at some point, they show up on my calendar. 181 00:10:05,496 --> 00:10:09,662 And it's that awareness through ideas, thought leadership, 182 00:10:09,662 --> 00:10:13,500 it could be described as, that can take someone who's a complete stranger, 183 00:10:13,500 --> 00:10:17,270 but attract them to you in a way that you want them to. 184 00:10:17,270 --> 00:10:21,340 And there's a lot of different applications there to do that. 185 00:10:21,340 --> 00:10:23,410 I don't want to overemphasize what thought leadership is 186 00:10:23,410 --> 00:10:27,329 and make it this grandiose thing, that only a certain few select people do. 187 00:10:27,329 --> 00:10:30,370 I think any of us can be a thought leader, 188 00:10:30,370 --> 00:10:37,162 and it just takes the willingness and desire to package some of our knowledge, 189 00:10:37,300 --> 00:10:39,540 and be willing to put it out there in the public sphere. 190 00:10:39,540 --> 00:10:43,040 – Yes, I mean, the way you explained it, really makes a lot of sense 191 00:10:43,040 --> 00:10:46,495 because, I think, it's been a term that's been thrown around a little too much. 192 00:10:46,600 --> 00:10:49,180 But it's helpful to make it more applicable, 193 00:10:49,180 --> 00:10:50,930 saying, "Hey, anybody can be a thought leader 194 00:10:50,930 --> 00:10:53,495 because you have knowledge, you have experience, 195 00:10:53,495 --> 00:10:56,010 and it's just about sharing that knowledge." 196 00:10:56,010 --> 00:10:59,662 So how does one get over that Imposter Syndrome that you talked about? 197 00:10:59,790 --> 00:11:01,662 Because I feel like the first step 198 00:11:01,662 --> 00:11:05,090 would be to, "Hey, how do I overcome my Impostor Syndrome?" 199 00:11:05,090 --> 00:11:08,995 Because you may realize, listening to this podcast, "Hey, I do have a lot of things 200 00:11:08,995 --> 00:11:13,162 I can share, but I don't know if I'm able, I don't know if people want to listen to me." 201 00:11:13,170 --> 00:11:16,279 Right there, the definition of that Imposter Syndrome. 202 00:11:16,279 --> 00:11:19,649 So how does one start overcoming that to move to the next step? 203 00:11:19,662 --> 00:11:23,162 – Yes, there's a quote that I learned from one of my mentors, 204 00:11:23,162 --> 00:11:25,980 maybe, 10 years or so, ago, his name is Michael Port, 205 00:11:25,980 --> 00:11:28,579 and he talked about learning in action. 206 00:11:28,579 --> 00:11:31,070 And what that means, to me, because I've really built up 207 00:11:31,070 --> 00:11:36,750 my current business from the ground up, over the past nine years. 208 00:11:36,750 --> 00:11:38,780 And when I started I didn't know a lot, 209 00:11:38,780 --> 00:11:41,328 and it was just I have to go out there and put up my shingle. 210 00:11:41,328 --> 00:11:44,520 And, then, as an entrepreneur, you have to figure stuff out. 211 00:11:44,520 --> 00:11:50,328 And it's just willing to take action, being willing to be uncomfortable. 212 00:11:50,328 --> 00:11:52,139 I think the two components that are important there 213 00:11:52,139 --> 00:11:54,390 is that, one, you have a desire. 214 00:11:54,390 --> 00:11:55,930 You have an end result that you want to achieve. 215 00:11:55,930 --> 00:11:57,600 I mean, if you don't have motivation, 216 00:11:57,600 --> 00:11:59,810 then, chances are you're not going to follow through on it. 217 00:11:59,810 --> 00:12:03,360 So you want to have that why clearly established. 218 00:12:03,360 --> 00:12:05,070 Why is this important to you? 219 00:12:05,070 --> 00:12:06,161 Why are you doing this? 220 00:12:06,161 --> 00:12:09,828 And once you're clear on that why, then, you have, ultimately, the fuel 221 00:12:09,828 --> 00:12:11,828 that's going to propel you forward. 222 00:12:11,828 --> 00:12:14,680 I think the second part of that is to not go it alone. 223 00:12:14,680 --> 00:12:20,040 I think in any endeavor, in life, having a coach, in some capacity. 224 00:12:20,040 --> 00:12:23,494 Someone that you have as a sounding board, someone you can bounce ideas off. 225 00:12:23,630 --> 00:12:28,161 Someone who's gone before you and can make the path that much easier to trot. 226 00:12:28,269 --> 00:12:31,310 I think those things are all extremely helpful 227 00:12:31,310 --> 00:12:33,494 in overcoming the Impostor Syndrome. 228 00:12:33,494 --> 00:12:35,994 So much of the time, it's just this small voice in our head 229 00:12:35,994 --> 00:12:37,779 that says, "You can't do this." 230 00:12:37,779 --> 00:12:39,769 Or "What are you doing?" 231 00:12:39,769 --> 00:12:44,600 And what you need, what's beneficial is to have someone supportive around you. 232 00:12:44,600 --> 00:12:47,328 Whether it's a coach or a group that can challenge you and say, 233 00:12:47,328 --> 00:12:49,828 "No, you absolutely have every right to do this." 234 00:12:49,828 --> 00:12:53,190 I want to share a story of one of my earlier clients. 235 00:12:53,190 --> 00:12:55,880 She's not an accountant or a finance professional, 236 00:12:55,880 --> 00:13:00,994 but she was a world-class expert in helping to rescue penguins. 237 00:13:00,994 --> 00:13:04,994 And her name, I believe it was, Diane, Dylan or Diane, I think, 238 00:13:04,994 --> 00:13:06,161 it's been a few years. 239 00:13:06,161 --> 00:13:09,920 But I was interviewing her on a podcast because I knew about her reputation, 240 00:13:09,920 --> 00:13:10,920 and she's written books, 241 00:13:10,920 --> 00:13:15,610 and she's one of like five people in the world, that can rescue penguins. 242 00:13:15,610 --> 00:13:20,827 When there's some global tragedy, the UN or whomever agency calls her. 243 00:13:20,827 --> 00:13:23,470 So that, I think, by definition, would be an expert. 244 00:13:23,470 --> 00:13:25,330 That would be a thought leader in the space. 245 00:13:25,330 --> 00:13:27,661 But when I interviewed her, on the podcast, it was just amazing, 246 00:13:27,661 --> 00:13:29,994 she was like, "Ah, who am I to do this?" 247 00:13:29,994 --> 00:13:33,494 I mean, it was just remarkable, considering that she's like one of five people. 248 00:13:33,494 --> 00:13:35,327 She's written books, she does this for a living. 249 00:13:35,327 --> 00:13:37,827 But it just goes to show you that this is very common. 250 00:13:37,827 --> 00:13:41,480 And, so, I think, another aspect of that is just being aware that it's okay. 251 00:13:41,480 --> 00:13:44,630 If you're having small thoughts, that's okay, we all go through it. 252 00:13:44,630 --> 00:13:49,994 And it's, ultimately, having that vision, that goal, that why that can help you say, 253 00:13:49,994 --> 00:13:53,994 "Okay, I'm willing to grow, I'm willing to stretch my comfort zone 254 00:13:54,040 --> 00:13:55,810 because there's a reason for me to do this." 255 00:13:55,810 --> 00:13:57,639 And, so, when you have those things in place, 256 00:13:57,639 --> 00:13:58,994 you can overcome the Imposter Syndrome. 257 00:13:59,327 --> 00:14:02,120 – Definitely, well, I like the idea of getting a mentor, 258 00:14:02,120 --> 00:14:04,994 getting somebody that has walked the road before you. 259 00:14:04,994 --> 00:14:06,640 And I want to preface this, too, 260 00:14:06,640 --> 00:14:09,329 is you're not going to get everything right the first time. 261 00:14:09,329 --> 00:14:12,110 You're going to fail, and you can't be afraid to fail, right? 262 00:14:12,110 --> 00:14:14,600 – 100%, myself, as an entrepreneur, 263 00:14:14,600 --> 00:14:18,839 one of the chief lessons I've learned is fail fast, fail forward, 264 00:14:18,839 --> 00:14:20,980 and we're going to get most things wrong. 265 00:14:20,980 --> 00:14:26,827 And the more you're comfortable failing, the faster you can become successful. 266 00:14:26,900 --> 00:14:30,270 It's not to say that you want to provide quality work 267 00:14:30,270 --> 00:14:31,910 and you want to do all these different things, 268 00:14:31,910 --> 00:14:37,993 but just being willing to fail is the fastest way to succeed. 269 00:14:37,993 --> 00:14:44,493 As an aside, I've taken Improv classes, and one of the key lessons that I learned there, 270 00:14:44,640 --> 00:14:48,500 and it's really a mindset, is that fail and fail big, 271 00:14:48,500 --> 00:14:51,160 don't get scared by it but embrace it. 272 00:14:51,160 --> 00:14:52,990 And, of course, in the Improv setting it's funny, 273 00:14:52,990 --> 00:14:55,279 the more you fail, the funnier it can be. 274 00:14:55,279 --> 00:14:56,993 But it really just becomes a mindset. 275 00:14:56,993 --> 00:14:58,660 And, so, just in your day to day, 276 00:14:58,660 --> 00:15:02,279 there are so many things that we act small on and we're afraid to do. 277 00:15:02,279 --> 00:15:04,800 But if you just have this mindset, "Hey, I'm just going to try it. 278 00:15:04,800 --> 00:15:06,100 What's the worst that can happen?" 279 00:15:06,100 --> 00:15:07,660 And you just say, "It doesn't really matter." 280 00:15:07,660 --> 00:15:09,993 Then that is the fastest way forward. 281 00:15:10,160 --> 00:15:12,993 – And it's interesting, when you were saying that, it made me think of a term 282 00:15:12,993 --> 00:15:14,993 that I've used a lot in my professional career, sometimes, 283 00:15:14,993 --> 00:15:17,160 like, "I'm just faking it till I make it." 284 00:15:17,160 --> 00:15:20,009 But, sometimes, I wonder if faking it till you make it 285 00:15:20,009 --> 00:15:22,980 is part of that Impostor Syndrome. 286 00:15:22,980 --> 00:15:24,640 Where "I'm just faking it till I make it." 287 00:15:24,640 --> 00:15:26,350 But you, actually, are doing a really good job 288 00:15:26,350 --> 00:15:29,540 and you're not faking it because you do know what you're doing. 289 00:15:29,540 --> 00:15:32,660 So I wonder if trying to getting over that mindset of "Faking it till you make it" 290 00:15:32,660 --> 00:15:35,993 and saying, "No, I'm just going to fail, fail hard, and keep going forward instead." 291 00:15:35,993 --> 00:15:38,610 –Yes, I hear you because, I think, "Fake it till you make it" 292 00:15:38,610 --> 00:15:40,493 almost has like a negative connotation, 293 00:15:40,493 --> 00:15:42,370 that you're not really qualified to do something. 294 00:15:42,370 --> 00:15:47,993 But, yes, it's how you frame it in your mind, and, I think, it could be similar. 295 00:15:47,993 --> 00:15:50,520 But it's, definitely, the way that I mean it's in a positive way, 296 00:15:50,520 --> 00:15:52,993 it's that that's the way to success. 297 00:15:52,993 --> 00:15:57,826 But, again, that's where you can fake it till you make it on your own. 298 00:15:57,826 --> 00:16:00,490 And, maybe, that's where you don't tell anyone that you're uncomfortable, 299 00:16:00,490 --> 00:16:02,069 or you don't quite know what you're doing, 300 00:16:02,069 --> 00:16:04,993 or this or that and, maybe, there are some negative connotations there. 301 00:16:04,993 --> 00:16:09,826 But that's where when you just understand that being uncomfortable is part of it, 302 00:16:09,826 --> 00:16:12,826 and you can surround yourself by like-minded people, or a mentor, 303 00:16:12,826 --> 00:16:17,470 or a coach, and they can help guide you, and set those boundaries, so to speak. 304 00:16:17,470 --> 00:16:20,600 Where it's okay to not get it perfect. 305 00:16:20,600 --> 00:16:25,159 It's okay to, fail, is a strong word, but imperfection is okay. 306 00:16:25,159 --> 00:16:28,110 I think another analogy might be perfectionism. 307 00:16:28,110 --> 00:16:30,159 It's like, "Well, if I can't write a masterpiece, 308 00:16:30,159 --> 00:16:34,826 if it's not going on the New York Times bestselling list, then, why even bother? 309 00:16:34,826 --> 00:16:41,540 And another analogy or another metaphor is being willing to write something 310 00:16:41,540 --> 00:16:45,992 or step out and not be perfect. 311 00:16:45,992 --> 00:16:47,920 Because the act of doing something 312 00:16:47,920 --> 00:16:51,326 is inherently more valuable than staying small. 313 00:16:51,326 --> 00:16:54,826 – Yes, I like that, I like that it's a kind of reframing that mindset 314 00:16:54,850 --> 00:17:00,825 of, "I'm not really faking it, but I'm learning as I grow, and things may not be perfect. 315 00:17:00,870 --> 00:17:04,992 But I'm putting myself out there and that helps me grow, as a professional." 316 00:17:05,209 --> 00:17:06,920 – It is, and I think it's authenticity. 317 00:17:06,920 --> 00:17:10,659 Again, that's where you just reframe it from the "Fake it till you make it" 318 00:17:10,660 --> 00:17:13,825 which can be a little bit of a negative connotation, it's just being authentic. 319 00:17:13,980 --> 00:17:17,492 It's like, "Hey, I'm learning something new, I'm trying something new. 320 00:17:17,492 --> 00:17:21,039 It's not going to be perfect, bear with me, but this is my goal." 321 00:17:21,039 --> 00:17:24,220 And if you tell people that they'll appreciate your authenticity, 322 00:17:24,220 --> 00:17:25,159 when it comes to it. 323 00:17:25,159 --> 00:17:30,020 At the end of the day, part of Imposter Syndrome is the fear of being judged. 324 00:17:30,020 --> 00:17:33,590 So it's like, "I'm really good at staying in this lane. 325 00:17:33,590 --> 00:17:36,419 I'm really good at it, and people respect me, 326 00:17:36,419 --> 00:17:39,325 and I get praise, and I get rewarded. 327 00:17:39,325 --> 00:17:42,060 And if I come into this other lane that I'm not comfortable with, 328 00:17:42,060 --> 00:17:44,658 then, I haven't developed my competency, yet. 329 00:17:44,658 --> 00:17:48,992 And, so, suddenly people see that I'm not perfect." 330 00:17:48,992 --> 00:17:54,158 And, so, again, it's all this mindset stuff that you need to grapple with. 331 00:17:54,158 --> 00:17:57,770 And, again, should you put yourself through the process 332 00:17:57,770 --> 00:18:00,100 and it goes back to your why. 333 00:18:00,100 --> 00:18:03,080 And we'll talk about personal branding or writing a book; 334 00:18:03,080 --> 00:18:05,140 what could it do for your career? 335 00:18:05,140 --> 00:18:07,200 What could it do for your personal brand? 336 00:18:07,200 --> 00:18:09,809 What could it do for your thought leadership? 337 00:18:09,809 --> 00:18:12,480 What could it do for your ability to communicate? 338 00:18:12,480 --> 00:18:14,658 What could it do for your confidence? 339 00:18:14,658 --> 00:18:18,640 I mean, I find that before I do anything now I want to start by writing a book. 340 00:18:18,640 --> 00:18:21,991 Because if I launch a service, or a company, or anything, 341 00:18:21,991 --> 00:18:25,658 I want to start by writing a book because I know that in doing so, 342 00:18:25,658 --> 00:18:27,825 I'm going to get my own thinking very clear. 343 00:18:27,825 --> 00:18:30,658 I'm going to be able to communicate my message that much better 344 00:18:30,658 --> 00:18:33,070 and, then, my path to success is that much shorter. 345 00:18:33,070 --> 00:18:35,679 – Mh-hmm, I'm sure somebody's been listening to us 346 00:18:35,679 --> 00:18:38,570 chat about writing a book, and personal branding, 347 00:18:38,570 --> 00:18:41,325 and I'm sure somebody has thought of the term white paper. 348 00:18:41,325 --> 00:18:43,991 And when you think of professional writing, people think of white papers. 349 00:18:43,991 --> 00:18:45,158 Maybe we can help distinguish 350 00:18:45,158 --> 00:18:48,030 the difference between this book that we're talking about writing, 351 00:18:48,030 --> 00:18:48,991 and a white paper. 352 00:18:48,991 --> 00:18:52,570 Let's help differentiate that in people's minds, as we're talking through this. 353 00:18:52,658 --> 00:18:56,030 – Yes, in my mind, from a strictly writing standpoint, 354 00:18:56,030 --> 00:18:57,690 they could have some similarities. 355 00:18:57,690 --> 00:19:02,324 I think from a status and impact level, though, there's a huge difference. 356 00:19:02,324 --> 00:19:07,991 One's author, what I love about the word, is that it's part of the word authority. 357 00:19:07,991 --> 00:19:10,324 And, so, people see someone 358 00:19:10,324 --> 00:19:14,491 who's an author and they have a completely different view of them, 359 00:19:14,491 --> 00:19:19,824 immediately, in terms of their competency, their expertise, all these different things. 360 00:19:19,824 --> 00:19:23,360 Rightly or wrongly, that's the immediate perception that people have. 361 00:19:23,360 --> 00:19:27,658 I think with a white paper you might have the same level of knowledge or skill set, 362 00:19:27,740 --> 00:19:32,991 but there isn't any status or additional credibility that is associated with it. 363 00:19:32,991 --> 00:19:35,740 There's no personal branding. 364 00:19:35,740 --> 00:19:40,991 Largely speaking, you don't go and tell people, "Hey, I wrote a white paper, no." 365 00:19:40,991 --> 00:19:42,020 And it's like, "What?" 366 00:19:42,020 --> 00:19:44,991 Whereas when you say you're an author everyone, suddenly, steps back 367 00:19:44,991 --> 00:19:46,670 and says, "Wow, that's really cool." 368 00:19:46,670 --> 00:19:49,800 So my recent book, it's called The Short Book Formula. 369 00:19:49,800 --> 00:19:53,970 And I think that one of the reasons everyone is afraid to write a book 370 00:19:53,970 --> 00:19:57,657 is that if you think about a 40,000-page business book, 371 00:19:57,657 --> 00:19:59,491 that could be a daunting task. 372 00:19:59,491 --> 00:20:02,324 And, then, conversely, if you actually want people to read your book, 373 00:20:02,324 --> 00:20:03,991 people have limited attention spans. 374 00:20:03,991 --> 00:20:08,657 And, so, the idea of reading six, 10, 12,15 hour book is a bigger task for the reader. 375 00:20:08,809 --> 00:20:12,470 And, so, what I've devised is what I call the Short Book Formula, 376 00:20:12,470 --> 00:20:17,157 which is based on writing a roughly 12,000-word book. 377 00:20:17,157 --> 00:20:18,870 Now, why is that important? 378 00:20:18,870 --> 00:20:23,990 12,000 words and the way we format it, is roughly 100 pages, and 12,000 words 379 00:20:24,120 --> 00:20:29,490 can be read or, in audio form, listened to in about 60 to 90 minutes. 380 00:20:29,490 --> 00:20:33,720 With 12,000 words you have the ability to, in our case, 381 00:20:33,720 --> 00:20:36,940 we help people write and publish a book within six to 12 weeks. 382 00:20:36,940 --> 00:20:39,820 And, so, it's not this year-long thing that they have to do, 383 00:20:39,820 --> 00:20:42,324 it's a lot more manageable. 384 00:20:42,324 --> 00:20:46,490 And, on the flip side, when you give your book or when people read your book, 385 00:20:46,490 --> 00:20:47,880 they're that much more likely to, actually, 386 00:20:47,880 --> 00:20:49,657 not just get the book and put on their bookshelf. 387 00:20:49,657 --> 00:20:51,990 They're that much more likely to actually read, listen to, 388 00:20:51,990 --> 00:20:53,070 and consume the message. 389 00:20:53,070 --> 00:20:58,550 Which, especially, if you're in the role of selling, is extremely important. 390 00:20:58,550 --> 00:21:00,157 Short books have a strong pedigree. 391 00:21:00,157 --> 00:21:04,490 I have a list right here that I talk about, so I'm going to name out a couple of titles 392 00:21:04,520 --> 00:21:06,120 that you may have heard of before. 393 00:21:06,120 --> 00:21:09,890 The Art of War by Sun Tzu, 96 pages. 394 00:21:09,890 --> 00:21:13,990 The Prince by Niccolo Machiavelli, 94 pages. 395 00:21:13,990 --> 00:21:17,000 This next one, have you heard of The Communist Manifesto? 396 00:21:17,000 --> 00:21:17,657 For better or worse? 397 00:21:17,657 --> 00:21:21,657 – I have, yes. – 40 pages. 398 00:21:21,657 --> 00:21:26,240 And, so, I share those examples because you can see the impact 399 00:21:26,240 --> 00:21:28,370 that short books have had throughout history. 400 00:21:28,370 --> 00:21:33,740 What I really love about short books is when someone reads it, 401 00:21:33,740 --> 00:21:36,559 if the message resonates, not only do they get through it 402 00:21:36,559 --> 00:21:39,960 and actually read the whole message, they're more likely to read it again. 403 00:21:39,960 --> 00:21:44,156 I mean, there are books that I've read multiple times because I really enjoyed it 404 00:21:44,156 --> 00:21:47,323 and I can get through it, relatively, quick. 405 00:21:47,323 --> 00:21:50,560 And, this also helps to answer the question of the person 406 00:21:50,560 --> 00:21:55,323 who has too many ideas, so to speak, knows a lot of things 407 00:21:55,323 --> 00:21:58,970 and is trying to focus in on what should my book be about? 408 00:21:58,970 --> 00:22:01,990 My answer would be, well, let's start with one book 409 00:22:01,990 --> 00:22:04,370 and get it really focused, in terms of your audience, 410 00:22:04,370 --> 00:22:06,823 what the message is, why they should read it, 411 00:22:06,823 --> 00:22:09,323 and write a book around that topic. 412 00:22:09,323 --> 00:22:13,656 But, then, from that point, you could start another book, 12,000 words. 413 00:22:13,780 --> 00:22:15,990 Maybe it's a new audience or it's a different topic. 414 00:22:15,990 --> 00:22:19,700 And, so, you have the ability to create, over time, a series of books. 415 00:22:19,700 --> 00:22:22,989 I mean, I've found that I've gone from publishing a book once a year. 416 00:22:22,989 --> 00:22:25,156 To, now, where I'm starting to hit two books a year 417 00:22:25,156 --> 00:22:29,730 just because I see the value of it and just the process of doing it, 418 00:22:29,730 --> 00:22:31,823 is that much more quick and effective. 419 00:22:31,823 --> 00:22:37,156 – Mh-hmm, wow, and from somebody who's read your Short Formula Book. 420 00:22:37,156 --> 00:22:38,450 It, probably, took me about two hours, 421 00:22:38,450 --> 00:22:41,680 just because I'm a slower reader, and I was thinking more about it. 422 00:22:41,680 --> 00:22:44,011 But it is a very quick read and it's an easy read. 423 00:22:44,011 --> 00:22:46,910 And it's not like you have to write at a collegiate level, 424 00:22:46,910 --> 00:22:49,480 but you want to write at a level that people can understand, 425 00:22:49,480 --> 00:22:52,656 and get through it quickly, and understand what you're talking about. 426 00:22:52,656 --> 00:22:54,570 And, so, I think that's a huge difference, too, 427 00:22:54,570 --> 00:22:57,489 is that don't think that you have to write in this crazy way. 428 00:22:57,489 --> 00:23:00,489 Obviously, I mean, something like The Art of War, may not be easy 429 00:23:00,489 --> 00:23:04,156 for everybody to understand because of the way he wrote it. 430 00:23:04,309 --> 00:23:07,789 But other ones that went far like the communist one you mentioned, 431 00:23:07,789 --> 00:23:09,989 that one went far and wide to many different people 432 00:23:09,989 --> 00:23:13,789 because of the plain language, as an example of plain language, 433 00:23:13,789 --> 00:23:15,989 and how well that can affect people. 434 00:23:16,156 --> 00:23:20,220 – Yes, I mean, that's one of the things that a book well-written 435 00:23:20,220 --> 00:23:24,989 or well-read is, probably, the better way to say that, uses accessible language. 436 00:23:24,989 --> 00:23:27,489 It uses language that an average person, 437 00:23:27,489 --> 00:23:33,140 a non-specialist, can read, absorb, and learn from. 438 00:23:33,140 --> 00:23:35,380 And that might be another difference between a white paper and a book. 439 00:23:35,380 --> 00:23:37,822 I think, a white paper is more technical, 440 00:23:37,822 --> 00:23:40,989 in nature and it's geared more towards a technician. 441 00:23:40,989 --> 00:23:45,322 Whereas a book, fundamentally, you have a specific audience in mind. 442 00:23:45,370 --> 00:23:47,799 But you want to expand who that audience is 443 00:23:47,799 --> 00:23:51,160 and, actually, get them to read it because it's interesting and engaging, 444 00:23:51,160 --> 00:23:56,489 uses stories to make points, but the language should be accessible. 445 00:23:56,489 --> 00:23:59,655 I mean, when you're trying to impress people through fancy language, 446 00:23:59,655 --> 00:24:02,029 oftentimes, it's actually the opposite. 447 00:24:02,029 --> 00:24:03,989 You want to make them understand it better. 448 00:24:04,155 --> 00:24:05,590 – Yes, you want to make them understand it better. 449 00:24:05,590 --> 00:24:09,029 I've always heard that "If you could explain what you do to an eight-year-old, 450 00:24:09,029 --> 00:24:10,230 you can explain it to anybody." 451 00:24:10,230 --> 00:24:12,322 And I think it's having that mindset when you're writing. 452 00:24:12,655 --> 00:24:14,155 – Well, and, then, from there it goes back 453 00:24:14,155 --> 00:24:17,655 to the benefits of writing a book is that it helps you to clarify your thoughts, 454 00:24:17,655 --> 00:24:20,655 it helps you to communicate your ideas better. 455 00:24:20,655 --> 00:24:22,720 And, then, aside from the actual book, 456 00:24:22,720 --> 00:24:27,322 it translates into your ability to communicate with people. 457 00:24:27,322 --> 00:24:30,720 Whether it's internal, in the company, whether it's external, 458 00:24:30,720 --> 00:24:33,970 you're able to express your ideas that much more clearly 459 00:24:33,970 --> 00:24:36,270 to a wider audience and be understood. 460 00:24:36,270 --> 00:24:41,155 So for someone who is looking for, say, more speaking opportunities. 461 00:24:41,155 --> 00:24:43,155 I mean, at a corporation or a company, 462 00:24:43,155 --> 00:24:45,280 oftentimes, the higher you go up the ladder, 463 00:24:45,280 --> 00:24:49,322 the more it requires your leadership and your communication abilities. 464 00:24:49,322 --> 00:24:54,155 And, so, it's just a great way to hone in on those skills, develop those skills, 465 00:24:54,155 --> 00:24:55,960 and then be recognized for it. 466 00:24:55,960 --> 00:24:58,649 Someone who has a book is much more easily 467 00:24:58,649 --> 00:25:02,380 given an opportunity to speak, whether it's at a conference, 468 00:25:02,380 --> 00:25:08,155 whether it's at a podcast, for example, whatever it is because it's trust in advance. 469 00:25:08,155 --> 00:25:11,655 People trust that you have a message that can help inform and teach people. 470 00:25:11,799 --> 00:25:15,821 – Yes, and it allows you, and it grows your name, as you get out there 471 00:25:15,821 --> 00:25:17,321 and get those opportunities. 472 00:25:17,321 --> 00:25:18,655 – It does. – Yes. 473 00:25:18,655 --> 00:25:22,655 So as we wrap up the conversation, this has been a really great conversation. 474 00:25:22,655 --> 00:25:25,149 Thinking about the accounting and finance professional, 475 00:25:25,149 --> 00:25:26,920 and the people that you've worked with. 476 00:25:26,920 --> 00:25:29,488 Are there any examples you can give or any stories you can tell? 477 00:25:29,488 --> 00:25:33,821 That are success stories, that our audience can hear 478 00:25:33,821 --> 00:25:37,155 as they imagine how they could take this route? 479 00:25:37,155 --> 00:25:39,610 –Yes, definitely, one person that comes to mind, 480 00:25:39,610 --> 00:25:44,154 his name is Michael Poisson, and I met him, I want to say, a year or two ago. 481 00:25:44,154 --> 00:25:47,740 And Michael is, I think, he's really the epitome of everything 482 00:25:47,740 --> 00:25:49,700 that we've been talking about. 483 00:25:49,700 --> 00:25:58,309 He's a ESG data specialist and he works for a smaller company 484 00:25:58,309 --> 00:26:02,488 who, essentially, sells ESG data to, primarily, service-based companies, 485 00:26:02,488 --> 00:26:04,321 as well as to asset managers. 486 00:26:04,321 --> 00:26:06,570 And in his journey of it, part of what he was doing 487 00:26:06,570 --> 00:26:08,280 from a marketing and sales perspective, 488 00:26:08,280 --> 00:26:10,429 was that he was going to conferences, 489 00:26:10,429 --> 00:26:14,860 really as an attendee, and listening in, networking, doing all those things. 490 00:26:14,860 --> 00:26:18,700 And part of the value that he saw of writing and publishing the book, 491 00:26:18,700 --> 00:26:20,940 even though he was an employee for a company, 492 00:26:20,940 --> 00:26:22,710 not a business owner or an entrepreneur, 493 00:26:22,710 --> 00:26:25,049 was that it would elevate his personal brand. 494 00:26:25,049 --> 00:26:30,821 And it would give him more status to generate more speaking opportunities, 495 00:26:30,940 --> 00:26:35,990 to create more visibility, and credibility for what he does. 496 00:26:35,990 --> 00:26:39,650 So he published his book, I want to say, six months to a year ago. 497 00:26:39,650 --> 00:26:43,321 And I've spoken to him since then, and since then he's reported that, 498 00:26:43,321 --> 00:26:46,320 at these conferences, he's invited much more often to, actually, 499 00:26:46,320 --> 00:26:49,919 be a panelist or a speaker, which massively increases 500 00:26:49,919 --> 00:26:52,380 his awareness inside of his community. 501 00:26:52,380 --> 00:26:55,987 He's also gone on a number of podcasts, both as a guest. 502 00:26:55,987 --> 00:26:59,470 He hosts, now, his own podcast, and he invites thought leaders on. 503 00:26:59,470 --> 00:27:04,490 But, essentially, having the book has allowed him to elevate his game, 504 00:27:04,490 --> 00:27:07,740 meaning that he can create a lot more visibility for himself. 505 00:27:07,740 --> 00:27:14,154 He can much more effectively network with more influential people in the process. 506 00:27:14,200 --> 00:27:18,340 And it allows him to go from this person at a small company, 507 00:27:18,340 --> 00:27:20,654 and because of that elevated personal branded awareness, 508 00:27:20,654 --> 00:27:21,970 he can more effectively compete 509 00:27:21,970 --> 00:27:25,090 with the larger companies out there in the marketplace. 510 00:27:25,090 --> 00:27:27,987 What's interesting about his story, and it ties back to what we've been talking about, 511 00:27:28,110 --> 00:27:30,220 is that he's a really smart guy. 512 00:27:30,220 --> 00:27:31,919 And I knew this from day one, 513 00:27:31,919 --> 00:27:34,549 working with him, ton of knowledge, all these things. 514 00:27:34,549 --> 00:27:37,154 But to go back to Impostor Syndrome, throughout our work together, 515 00:27:37,154 --> 00:27:40,320 continuously, he would not refer to himself as the expert. 516 00:27:40,320 --> 00:27:43,090 He would refer to, "Oh, these people they're the experts, 517 00:27:43,090 --> 00:27:46,320 I'm just gathering data, I'm just presenting the information." 518 00:27:46,320 --> 00:27:49,350 And I had to tell him over and over again, "You are the expert. 519 00:27:49,350 --> 00:27:51,740 In doing this process and demonstrating 520 00:27:51,740 --> 00:27:55,130 what you know and all these things, you are an expert." 521 00:27:55,130 --> 00:27:57,653 So it just goes back to that whole personal journey. 522 00:27:57,653 --> 00:28:00,653 I think it was also rewarding because, again, we've been talking about, 523 00:28:00,653 --> 00:28:03,987 and I could see this during the time that we worked together and afterwards. 524 00:28:04,040 --> 00:28:10,320 But it really helped him deep dive in terms of ESG, and its value, 525 00:28:10,320 --> 00:28:15,820 and the stories, and why it's important, and he, obviously, knew this stuff beforehand. 526 00:28:15,830 --> 00:28:19,320 But just in going through the process, it really deepened his knowledge 527 00:28:19,320 --> 00:28:21,987 and his ability to communicate with others. 528 00:28:21,987 --> 00:28:25,653 He even had a college professor, who is pretty prominent in his field, 529 00:28:25,750 --> 00:28:29,486 come to him and say, "Hey, I want to use your book as part of my course." 530 00:28:29,486 --> 00:28:30,486 Which was pretty cool. 531 00:28:30,486 --> 00:28:32,580 – Yes, that's pretty awesome. 532 00:28:32,580 --> 00:28:35,986 And I like that you told the story about how even during the process, 533 00:28:35,986 --> 00:28:39,153 as he was going through it and learning more, he was still struggling with that 534 00:28:39,153 --> 00:28:42,986 Imposter Syndrome, and that's a big thing for a lot of us to overcome. 535 00:28:43,000 --> 00:28:45,110 Because you don't realize, "I am an expert." 536 00:28:45,110 --> 00:28:48,409 – Yes, a 100%, and that goes back to why you don't want to go it alone, 537 00:28:48,409 --> 00:28:49,486 you want a sounding board. 538 00:28:49,486 --> 00:28:53,153 But you also want someone who can give you positive encouragement 539 00:28:53,153 --> 00:28:55,653 and challenge some of, perhaps, the limiting thoughts 540 00:28:55,653 --> 00:28:57,320 that you might have on your own. 541 00:28:57,320 --> 00:29:00,986 – Definitely, well, Paul, we could probably talk about this for another half hour. 542 00:29:01,020 --> 00:29:04,653 But I really appreciate the insight you've given us, you've given our audience, 543 00:29:04,653 --> 00:29:06,986 and I really think that they're going to really benefit from this. 544 00:29:06,986 --> 00:29:08,570 I encourage everybody to look at the show notes. 545 00:29:08,570 --> 00:29:11,319 You'll see links to Paul's website, if you want to check out his books 546 00:29:11,319 --> 00:29:13,653 and the stuff he's written, and if you want to get in touch with him, 547 00:29:13,653 --> 00:29:15,319 there'll be ways to get in touch with him, as well. 548 00:29:15,319 --> 00:29:17,653 And just thank you, again, for coming on. 549 00:29:17,653 --> 00:29:20,153 – All right, thank you, I appreciate it, I enjoyed the conversation. 550 00:29:20,153 --> 00:29:22,319 < Outro > 551 00:29:22,319 --> 00:29:23,819 – This has been Count Me In, 552 00:29:23,819 --> 00:29:27,986 IMA's podcast, providing you with the latest perspectives, of thought leaders 553 00:29:27,986 --> 00:29:29,986 from the accounting and finance profession. 554 00:29:29,986 --> 00:29:32,486 If you like what you heard, and you'd like to be counted in 555 00:29:32,486 --> 00:29:34,819 for more relevant accounting and finance education, 556 00:29:34,819 --> 00:29:41,319 visit IMA's website at www.imanet.org.