Gap year on Steroids with Josh Sabo

Show Notes

Summary
High education is in crisis. Student debt in the USA is now past $1.6 Trillion and many students are coming out ill-equipped as well as disillusioned. Josh Sabo is trying to help students caught up in this. He is the founder of a non-profit called "The Industry". They help people sort out their careers and life, to develop a plan that sets them up for success in each area.

Where to Find Josh:

• His website: https://www.learntheindustry.org/

Transcription below (may contain typo's...):

[00:00:00] Josh: [00:00:00] and that's, what's so important about our line. We help young people clarify their career path. Just like you said, with those glasses, when it's clear, it's easy, maybe not easy but easier.

You, you know where you're heading. You know, you have a, the detailed plan, our students graduate with a detailed life plan. That means, what am I doing tomorrow the next day, next week, all the way to their end, a vision plan, where they have that house, they have that family, they have that job. That's perfect for them and we help them connect the dots all the way through. 

Mike: [00:00:33] Today's episode is all about college and careers. Did you know that the total us student debt is 1.6 trillion with a T trillion dollars. And that the average student holds about $30,000 of debt. Wow. Those are astronomical numbers. Maybe some of those you knew, but nonetheless [00:01:00] daunting. And so there's obviously a large crisis at hand here. And so I talked with Josh 

Who's the founder of a non-profit called the industry. And what they do is they work with, , future college students, current college students, and even graduates to sort out their life and help them plan out what the best path is for them. Sometimes that. Includes college. Sometimes it doesn't include college, but they are trying to beat this hat on to prevent students from racking up a bunch of debt, just to figure out they didn't want to do that thing. 

So let's jump into the episode with Josh. He   shares a little bit about what they are doing now, what the future of the organization is and where they are pro success, not anti college.  

welcome to another edition of the Tucson dad podcast. Today. I have the pleasure of speaking with mr. Josh SIBO, who runs the industry.

He's also a good friend of mine. He was a, I [00:02:00] lived with him when I was in college. So we go way back. So Josh, thank you so much for being on the podcast, man. 

Josh: [00:02:06] And it's good to be here. 

Mike: [00:02:08] So you are. You are disrupting the college kind of plan in a good way, in the sense like what the industry does is it helps people avoid getting into tons of debt.

And just going into colleges cause that's the default, right? Maybe I should let you pitch it. Cause I'm real excited. I love, I love what you're doing, man. 

Josh: [00:02:28] I mean, I don't know. I'm not sure if anybody can agree that a bunch of debt is a good thing, unless that debt is going to a degree, that's going to make you more money.

That'll pay it off and make you more money in the end. Uh, it was funny. I think it was Warren buffet that says I wouldn't invest in most kids' college education. So it's gotta be a real investment, but we are not against, we are pro success. We are anti failure. And with the amount of people that are graduating and not using their degree for its intended purpose, the amount of freshmen that are dropping out, I think it's at 36%.

[00:03:00] Um, there was a new study out that 60 something percent of young people are just disappointed with the jobs they have after college. They use their degree for, so the industry is a program that helps young people clarify their career path. Uh, IBM we just partnered with IBM and they said they wanted to partner with us because we have a listic view of education with the individual.

So essentially we'll look at the idea unity of the person, you know, a lot of people say, follow your passion. I say, follow your identity because passion is involved in identity. What's also involved as personality values, experiences, your whole life, all summed up in one semester with the industry. And then we take all that information and put it into three desired paths, three careers that would make sense for the individual.

So when they go to college, they are more. Confident in what they want to be doing. They'll get way better grades. They won't have as near as much anxiety or depression or fear of the future. And there's [00:04:00] just an enormous amount of, of success. So that's, that's what we do. 

Mike: [00:04:06] That's awesome. It, to me, it's almost like, sounds like a structured gap year.

You know, when people are like take a gap year and don't go to the default and rack up a bunch of debt, but the gap year is not really structured. Right. And maybe someone's like, well, I'm going to travel and you'll learn a little bit about yourself, but you're not in a structured way where you come out of that way, better off in terms of direction.

Right. 

Josh: [00:04:27] This did come from the idea of the gap here. A I consider it a gap year on steroids. One of the things that we didn't want is for students to take a full on gap here because a lot of times students lose their scholarships for college. And so we wanted to make it a three month program. So young people could take it while they're in high school or before they go to college.

Or even after college, we have an enormous amount of 22, 23 year olds going through the program who have degrees and who regret it. They have debt and they have a degree for a career that they don't necessarily want [00:05:00] anymore. So, yeah, it's, it's formulated off of the idea of the gap year. Um, but it's a, it's a gap year on steroids.

Um, we are connecting with is Ireland right now. We're going to have a location in Ireland. We're hoping to have a lot of different locations around the world. So that students can have the option to go travel during this period of time. Maybe extend their time with the industry, go through the program while they're in Ireland to go through the program while they're in New Zealand.

So in the next two years or so, we're going to have that pretty much lined up so that students can come through the program in a different country that they'd like to be in. 

Mike: [00:05:35] Yeah, that's amazing, man. And tell me a little bit about like some of the students that come in and, and some of the progress that they make after going through the industry, like they're coming in, like you said that they're, maybe they already have a degree.

Maybe they're in high school, you know? W what, what are the, like, what are the, the pains that they have when they're coming in? And then when they come out and they say, [00:06:00] wow, You know, this is, this is the progress I made. Tell me a little bit about those 

Josh: [00:06:02] stories. Confidence. Confidence is the main one. I always like to say, uh, one of my, one of my greatest gifts is to be able to encourage somebody.

And that is to give somebody courage. A lot of people know a little bit about what they'd like to do, but their fears and their limiting beliefs keep them from pursuing those things. So a lot of times we hear this, I'm just going to go college and maybe I'll figure it out there. Uh, it's the safety net.

Um, but I say confidence for young people when they come in, they will, we have them fill out a survey. Uh, how confident do you feel about your future? How confident do you feel in yourself? Uh, but month one is all, like I said is all about identity and we do an enormous amount of mindset. So when a student comes in, a lot of times there'll be feeling insecure, afraid, and when they leave, uh, I'd say that's the greatest thing that happens at the industry is this [00:07:00] self-sufficiency.

Um, self confidence that comes out of our students a hundred percent across the board. That is one of our greatest successes. Um, yeah, it's very powerful for the individual. 

Mike: [00:07:13] Yeah. And, um, tell me about colleges is. Maybe would have answered that in some regard, but it seems to me that some people go, if they go to college, just by default, they say, this is what I'm supposed to do.

They're trying to figure out what they want to do. It can actually add to that, right? Because then they're doing something that they're not built for and it doesn't align with their values, values are their strengths. You know, tell me a little bit about the people that have gone through a degree. And then if come out the other side, maybe probably worse off, obviously from a financial standpoint, probably worse off, but worse off psychologically and even just, um, holistically and then have gone through the industry and like how they've transformed.

Josh: [00:07:59] Well, we had a [00:08:00] student that actually went through to become a social worker. And the two things that she said she wanted to go into social work for was because she liked families and she was nice. So she thought, well, social work I'll be able to work with people. So I think she went through six years.

And got like a master. I forget exactly what the details were, but she came back to my wife and I, and she said after she got a job in social work, she goes, I think I'm just, I'm going to kill myself. I've been suicidal. And we said, well, why she goes, I didn't really realize how many families I would be separating with was my, with my degree.

Um, so if we would have gone through that, we also make sure that the careers that they're going into make sense, the career culture a lot, right? A lot of young guys are going into a. Are thinking about going into trades in our program, which is amazing, the amount of young people that we send into trades, but, uh, some of them are really, really kind and those types of things.

And so I have to kind of explain to them that the culture [00:09:00] is a little bit rougher around the edges. Uh, you might want to start your own business in this round so that you can create the culture. Um, but yeah, I forget the question, but, uh, 

Mike: [00:09:10] yeah, no, just the stories. I mean, the stories around the transformation that's happened because, um, you, my perception in my experience to some degree in going through college and, and people that have gone through college with you kind of get trapped, like you have so much invested in that degree.

So you have to go down that path and you're blocked. Then into something that doesn't align with how you operate and that's just a huge recipe for disaster. Right. Um, which is so unfortunate because it's like the decisions that were made. We're just by default. They weren't by intentionally saying I want to, and I think one of the things that you say is build your life.

I think it says it on your hat right now. I can read it. It's like, they're not building, they're just reacting. And just following a plan that, you know, 

Josh: [00:09:56] for some already laid out for it and 

Mike: [00:09:57] laid out. Yeah, 

Josh: [00:09:58] exactly.  [00:10:00] so yeah, young people go to college and they'll declare a major. And they're two years in spend on this money.

They think, I don't know if I really like this and, but they'll finish it anyways because they're already so invested. So it's a lot of like what you say when they get the degree. They think they have to be in that major, but a lot of times that degree can get them other jobs that they. Might that they might like, and then we'll see young people jump from job to job and still kind of be wandering.

Uh that's one of the things that we do a lot of too is vision. A lot of people ask the question, where do you see yourself in five to 10 years? And when I was in high school. Cool. I didn't, I didn't even have one idea. Yeah. So we'll ask, um, I think they say that most. Most people when they're asked that question, most young young men want to be an NFL football player, an NBA football player, or a basketball player.

Uh, so we asked the question, what, what do you see? Like what do you actually want in detail? Uh, the line is, uh, aim small, Ms. Small. If you aim at a target, very, very tiny, tiny target. There's a very, there's a [00:11:00] very. Small chance that you'll miss the, the, the target entirely. Um, you know, the, the, you know, the Bible says without vision, the people perish, which for an individual, right.

That means they'll just be wandering around without any purpose, without any, uh, without any passions. Um, so vision is a big thing. So we'll ask the questions. We have the whole, the whole worksheet laid out. How many bedrooms do you want in your house? Okay. Do you want a dog? What do you want acreage? Do you want to own your own home or rent in California?

I mean, what is the detail? Like, what do you envision? And so when you're going down this path, w w do you want a spouse? What kind of family culture do you want? Um, you know, we don't do just work on careers. We do, we do work with the entire life. Like you said, it's, it's build your life. So we do a lot with, with what marriage is supposed to look like, how a healthy relationship looks.

Um, so. We go through all that so that when they're on their daily path, every single day, their decisions are almost subconscious [00:12:00] consciously made based off of the vision that they want to have in the future. So that's a big thing for us as a, you know, the fear of the unknown is a major, major element in humanity.

And so when they know what they want in the future, there's a lot less fear. They're making confident decisions. Uh, one of the stories I like to tell the students is, uh, it's a little game. My wife and I used to play called. Called Doogie Dougie. No idea, but I love the sound. She made it up somehow or another.

It relates to Doogie Howser. I don't understand, but it's a fun game. So we were, were we drive in the car and anytime we see a yellow car, whoever hits the ceiling first and says, Doogie gets a point. And so when that was our goal and our vision, I started seeing yellow cars everywhere. You know, when you, when you start thinking about.

Uh, when you see a car with, with like wood coloring on it, you know, what do you know? Like you see that all the time and the same exact thing goes for opportunity. When you have a [00:13:00] strong vision, you know what you're looking for, you know, where you're heading, you're going to start seeing those opportunities everywhere to get to where you want to be.

So decisions wind up being made for you based off of your vision, which eliminates an enormous amount of stress, anxiety, and probably even depression. Wandering, wandering creates depression. Especially, I'm not trying to be, especially in young men when young men are just wandering, it creates a depression, it creates this, um, self image that is that they don't like.

And so when you have a vision, a strong detail vision of your future, uh that's that's gonna eliminate a lot of that. 

Mike: [00:13:41] So this is a fi I agree 110% with that, by the way. Um, so this is a fatherhood podcast and I, you know, I know you're a dad, um, and I know that you, you have young kids and your kids weren't that old when you started the, you know, building this whole industry, um, project, how [00:14:00] has that shaped your view on the industry and the cause that you're.

You're chasing because I think it's a noble cause, but now you have real world example of your own children that you're putting in the context. I know you have a large, um, or you have a, you have a long history of, of working with youth to help them through a lot of these things that now are, you're doing an industry.

So you're, you have like a lifetime of experience doing this, but tell me about how maybe it's made more real when you had your own kids. And you're like, wow, this is something that they're going to deal with. I better help them solve it, you know, or walk me through that a little bit. 

Josh: [00:14:35] Right. Well, my wife was pressured to go to college when she was in high school.

She went to college and came home of $121,000 of school. We accrued 16,000 more dollars because neither of us could come close to a job that could pay that $2,100 a month payment. So we understand that that debt is, is truly a, a it's a life [00:15:00] crusher. It's a soul crusher. So one is, uh, we don't want our kids to have debt, um, especially with college.

And we also don't want them to have a degree that they're not going to use. So with our kids, a lot of times we're teaching them little, uh, Little lessons about entrepreneurship sales. You know, my, my kids wanted to start selling bracelets. So my oldest started selling bracelets and wanted to start donating them, donating the money to kids that don't have food.

And so we'd work on, okay, how can we make that sign a little better? How can we make that pitch a little bit tighter? Uh, what, what price can we really sell these at? And so she's already developing this. Sales and marketing mind, which I find in most, if not all jobs and careers, sales and marketing is probably are probably the two most valuable skills, especially in the future.

When what they're saying is 60% of jobs are going to be online. Um, so yeah, that's definitely, yeah, the [00:16:00] fact that how we're raising our children, um, especially helping them understand that they don't have to go that route. Um, my daughter might want to be, uh, Might want to be a veterinarian. Well, she's, she has to go to college.

Right. And so let's go ahead. And so we can do to, for her to start making her own money in high school so she can start. I think that off another big thing is I don't, uh, I don't, I subscribed to the idea that we have to pay for our children's everything. We see a lot of students come through our program.

One of my favorite stories is Caleb. Caleb came in and he actually couldn't pay for the program and we're a nonprofit. So he was able to raise money and he was also, we were also able to give him some pretty strong scholarships, but at the end of the program, he, uh, he actually said, you know, Josh, I would have worked a lot harder if I would have had some of my own skin in the game.

If I would have had some money in this, um, when you have some skin in the game, you work hard or you take things more seriously. And so I want my daughters to also understand money, [00:17:00] um, and they understand that while we're, you know, going through our lives as adults now, we can't really afford that. Yep.

We're still still paying down this debt, you know, it really does affect your children as well. It really does. Um, 

Mike: [00:17:14] no skin in the game is an interesting thing. I want to interject there because that's, that's one of the key issues I think with our current system with college is that it's very, very easy to rack up debt to chase after a degree that you.

Kind of think you should go into and you don't really have a context. I think it's, I think it's, I think it's morally wrong. How easy it is to get a hundred K in debt for icicle student that is not really. It's not the ramifications of that. They don't really understand. And you could argue, maybe they should understand that or whatever ever.

But at the end of the day, it's they don't have the skin in the game. I mean, they have it, but they don't even realize, right. 

Josh: [00:17:56] They don't recognize it. Didn't recognize it. 

Mike: [00:17:58] Yeah. You sure as heck [00:18:00] have skin in the game when you're paying that back, you know, but then you. You're you're so disheartened because you have such big debt.

So I strongly, I, that's why I love what you're doing, Josh, because I think it's, it is, I think it's morally wrong to allow someone to get into so far of debt for something that is not really that valuable. 

Josh: [00:18:20] You know, if you know, 

Mike: [00:18:21] you're not in it or if you're not pursuing the right thing and all of those, all the things that you're trying to correct with 

Josh: [00:18:25] that federal school debt is the only debt that you can't bankrupt.

Yeah. I mean, it is lifelong, no matter what. You could be at your least in your last and you still have to pay that off. Yeah. So debt is easy, especially in college. And you know, it goes back to what we were saying earlier about college. Not necessarily being an investment, um, debt, school debt being an investment.

Isn't. Oh, it's a lie. It's a lie. Unless you have a very strong plan to get out of it. And for that debt to make you great [00:19:00] money, uh, investors will buy apartment complexes because they know they're going to be making this amount of money after they're going to be making this amount of money to pay off this step, then.

We've got to start looking at college, like a true investment. And if it's not going to be an investment financially, then I S I should start looking at another position. I should start looking for degrees that will actually pay that are in the area that I want to live. You know, that's something else that we run into a lot is I have this degree and there's no jobs in the area.

Well, are you, are you willing to move? Nah, not really. I have this family. So then what are you going to do with that degree? If you don't want to move. What are you going to do with that $40,000 of average student debt? So we're solving a lot of problems and, uh, especially with, with college and with debt, um, and I'm hoping that college appreciates what we're doing because a lot of our students are coming out of college with way more success.

But a lot of times how we're talking [00:20:00] about college seems to turn them off, to do what we're doing. Um, some, some of our students start their own businesses or many. And few of them are actually making money before our three month program is even over. 

Mike: [00:20:13] Yeah. Well, I think, I mean, when you talk about how maybe your projecting your sediment about college, you said you guys are pro success.

You're not necessarily anti college, but I think what's happening in higher education is you have a correction back to a norm, right. You know, from my understanding of the whole system is, you know, maybe 30. 30 plus years ago, it was much different. And then what happened and was you had all this access to capital for your buyers.

So anytime that you're going to give your, your buyers a whole bunch of money, then they're just going to try to get that money. Right. And what they did was they said, okay, now we have all this free money, but not free money, but easy loans to rack up for students. So in college has started to say, okay, well, what does a student like?

Oh, a student likes, uh, you know, a [00:21:00] climbing wall. And then they, they like a really cool cafeteria and they like all of the stuff that really doesn't add value to the product that they're selling, which is the degree. Right? Oh, so you have this, they, they, they expanded to try to, they get like a, like a fun environment for the, for the students or whatever, but it didn't really add value to getting, making the progress in their life.

Right. And the, the degree they're selling. So now I think it's like, it's an old, it's a correction back to that, you know, they have to, they have to then correct back. To actually delivering the value, which is it, it's almost as if your program helps them put on glasses to say, okay, now I can actually see what I want.

And I see this is, this is a path and this is how I'm going to get there. And they develop a plan before. They're just, they're just chasing after. Who knows what 

Josh: [00:21:45] you know, and that's, what's so important about our line. We help young people clarify their career path. Just like you said, with those glasses, when it's clear, it's easy, maybe not easy but easier.

You, you know where you're heading. You know, you have [00:22:00] a, the detailed plan, our students graduate with a detailed life plan. That means, what am I doing tomorrow the next day, next week, all the way to their end, a vision plan, where they have that house, they have that family, they have that job. That's perfect for them and we help them connect the dots all the way through.

Um, and you know, we've got a student named Blake. Uh, he said, by this time I'm going to be in Florida. I'm going to be working at this company. And then I'm going to go ahead. And by my, by, uh, by my girlfriend or ring, I'm going to be engaged on this state. We're going to move back up to Michigan and we're going to get married up in Michigan and he is literally following every single step.

You think this kid has any anxiety? His life has laid out before him by himself. He laid it out there and he's just going to fall every day. He just looks at his life plan. So, okay. This is what I got to do next. And he's just rolling. Yeah. Very successful 

Mike: [00:22:51] students. And, and, and you can adapt that to, I mean, you adapt as you learn.

I mean, that's the thing, it's, you're not saying you're locked into this forever, which, which is [00:23:00] the case. If you're racking up a bunch of debt and you're going into a career that you you're not set up for. Um, but, but the back to what you said about the Doogie game, where you see yellow cars everywhere, when you have that plan, you know, people.

It's kind of like when things that you're, you're in a groove and everything's going your way. I think that's by nature of you, you have a plan, you have a direction and you have focus and people recognize that other successful people or other people with a plan recognize that, and they're willing to go out of their way to help you.

And they're willing to help you in that path. But if you're not that focused and you're wandering, there's less likelihood that someone is gonna. Is going to necessarily give that guy, which is kind of unfortunate to some degree. And not that people aren't generous, but it's just, it's just a fact. Yeah.

Josh: [00:23:52] Wandering creates insecurity. Clarity creates confidence. We had a student that actually went in for a job interview with so [00:24:00] much confidence. With his life plan and his personality and identity, he actually told, he told the interviewer. Yeah, I'm just not sure if this is going to be a good fit for me in my future.

And that guy was no. So he left with that in a, you know, cause we teach our students, you're interviewing the boss to the potential employer as well. And he was so, uh, He was so inspired by this young person's confidence. He called me, he said, what are you? That's just, it does happen. So companies are chasing our students because they see the confidence and they see that they can't really get their whole, their hands on them and control them there.

They there at their direction. They've got their path and they're confident in it. I'm not sure if I've ever heard any young people that would go to a, to an interview and say, you know, I just don't know if this is going to be a good fit for me in my life. You know, it's just such a powerful. Powerful thing.

Mike: [00:24:53] That's awesome. Well, Josh, where, where do people go to find you and more information about the industry? 

Josh: [00:24:59] Yeah, you [00:25:00] can go to learn the industry.org. If you just want to hop on and apply right away, you can go to learn the industry.org/apply. If you're in the blue water area. Um, soon we're, we're planning on having housing, which would open up this program to all of, uh, everywhere.

You know, anybody can fly in. Um, from some other places as well. So you can find us on learn the industry.org. Um, you can email me, learn the industry.org at gmail.com. Or you can just call me and get my cell phone from Mike. That's. Awesome. 

Mike: [00:25:32] Cool, Josh. Well, thanks for being our man. I really appreciate it. It was 

Josh: [00:25:35] nice, right?

This was awesome. Thanks so much for having me.

What is 2 Cent Dad Podcast?

Intentional fatherhood while living a life of purpose. Hosted by Mike Sudyk. www.2centdad.com