WEBVTT

NOTE
This file was generated by Descript 

00:00:00.210 --> 00:00:02.110
Rupert Isaacson: Welcome
to Equine Assisted World.

00:00:02.140 --> 00:00:05.260
I'm your host, Rupert Isaacson,
New York Times best selling

00:00:05.280 --> 00:00:08.330
author of The Horse Boy, The Long
Ride Home, and The Healing Land.

00:00:08.379 --> 00:00:11.889
Before I jump in with today's
guest, I just want to say a huge

00:00:12.000 --> 00:00:15.139
thank you to you, our audience,
for helping to make this happen.

00:00:15.229 --> 00:00:15.999
I have a request.

00:00:16.520 --> 00:00:22.009
If you like what we do, please
like, subscribe, tell a friend.

00:00:22.579 --> 00:00:24.319
It really helps us get this work done.

00:00:24.529 --> 00:00:27.299
As you might know from my
books, I'm an autism dad.

00:00:27.805 --> 00:00:30.645
And over the last 20 years,
we've developed several

00:00:31.345 --> 00:00:35.285
equine assisted, neuroscience
backed certification programs.

00:00:35.884 --> 00:00:38.485
If you'd like to find out more
about them, go to newtrailslearning.

00:00:40.664 --> 00:00:40.814
com.

00:00:41.065 --> 00:00:43.665
So without further ado,
let's meet today's guest.

00:00:44.604 --> 00:00:48.364
Today I've got Celisse Barrett.

00:00:49.234 --> 00:00:52.744
There's a lot of people who come
on the show who do the impossible.

00:00:52.874 --> 00:00:54.974
That tends to be why I select them.

00:00:55.464 --> 00:00:59.154
And many of you out there who are
involved in this equine assisted

00:00:59.154 --> 00:01:04.314
world do the impossible, but
Celisse really does the impossible.

00:01:04.704 --> 00:01:08.724
She and her husband Jason, run this
thing that shouldn't really work,

00:01:08.724 --> 00:01:14.464
but does called equestrian chaos,
where they not just trick ride

00:01:15.634 --> 00:01:21.604
professionally, not just mounted archery
professionally or girl team, but they

00:01:21.604 --> 00:01:24.364
also do it with and for special needs.

00:01:24.664 --> 00:01:30.934
So they go between the
professional shows and running

00:01:30.934 --> 00:01:33.034
this as a special needs program.

00:01:33.814 --> 00:01:36.364
When I first heard about
it, I was not skeptical.

00:01:36.364 --> 00:01:41.704
I was just intrigued, went and
witnessed it for myself with Rowan, my

00:01:41.704 --> 00:01:46.684
son, 2019, and Sise and her compadre.

00:01:47.524 --> 00:01:54.214
Brooke had my son, my anxious
son standing up on a horse.

00:01:54.724 --> 00:01:55.414
Incredible.

00:01:55.924 --> 00:02:02.854
And then I watched people with all
kinds of special needs from TBIs that.

00:02:03.799 --> 00:02:12.199
Had rendered the brain and the body,
let's say, compromised in the extreme to

00:02:12.589 --> 00:02:20.479
people with barely verbal, nonverbal to
the hypoxic, a DDH, you know, everything,

00:02:20.479 --> 00:02:22.459
everything, everything in the show.

00:02:24.079 --> 00:02:25.309
And it knocked me on my butt.

00:02:26.479 --> 00:02:30.079
There aren't many people out there
who can do what Sise Barrett does.

00:02:30.319 --> 00:02:33.649
So thank you Cise for coming on the show.

00:02:34.279 --> 00:02:37.729
Please tell us who you are, what
you do, why on earth you do it.

00:02:37.759 --> 00:02:42.089
'cause it's bloody hard work and
you know, how did you get here?

00:02:42.359 --> 00:02:43.859
Tell us about the program and you.

00:02:44.639 --> 00:02:47.189
Celisse Barrett: Wow, that's
a, that's a very big question.

00:02:47.289 --> 00:02:56.319
Well, I started because it was actually
honestly a selfish start in the beginning.

00:02:57.079 --> 00:03:05.029
I moved to Mobile, Alabama with
my husband and I really, I found

00:03:05.029 --> 00:03:06.679
trick riding right before I left.

00:03:07.549 --> 00:03:12.199
And when I found trick riding,
I found something that just, it

00:03:12.199 --> 00:03:17.179
inspired me to the fullest physically.

00:03:17.339 --> 00:03:20.879
When you don't know what you're able to
do and then you're finally suddenly able

00:03:20.879 --> 00:03:23.219
to do what seems like the impossible.

00:03:23.854 --> 00:03:28.474
You realize, well, at least for me, I
realized that I wanted to push my body

00:03:28.474 --> 00:03:38.554
much further into this extreme type
of writing, and it gave me confidence

00:03:38.554 --> 00:03:42.184
in a way that I had never felt before.

00:03:42.184 --> 00:03:47.664
And it wasn't really like a it wasn't so
much about being on stage as it was that

00:03:47.664 --> 00:03:53.154
I could physically achieve a certain goal.

00:03:53.434 --> 00:03:53.494
Yeah.

00:03:54.544 --> 00:03:59.674
And when I had physical confidence,
it gave me personal confidence.

00:04:00.214 --> 00:04:00.874
If that, were you

00:04:00.874 --> 00:04:02.914
Rupert Isaacson: not so personally
confident before trick writing?

00:04:03.754 --> 00:04:06.094
Celisse Barrett: I don't think
I really was, to be honest.

00:04:06.154 --> 00:04:09.484
And I think a lot of that
comes from my music background.

00:04:09.914 --> 00:04:11.714
I'm also a classical musician.

00:04:11.714 --> 00:04:12.619
Of course you are.

00:04:12.639 --> 00:04:15.134
And I went through

00:04:15.404 --> 00:04:16.724
Rupert Isaacson: What's
your, what's your instrument?

00:04:17.294 --> 00:04:17.774
Celisse Barrett: Flute?

00:04:18.044 --> 00:04:18.314
Rupert Isaacson: Yeah.

00:04:19.334 --> 00:04:21.284
Celisse Barrett: I played flute
for, since I was seven years old.

00:04:21.354 --> 00:04:22.644
And I played it all through high school.

00:04:22.644 --> 00:04:26.484
I actually went to Howard w Blake
School of the Performing Arts,

00:04:26.484 --> 00:04:29.064
and I had to audition in high
school to get into that school.

00:04:29.754 --> 00:04:30.954
And it was

00:04:30.954 --> 00:04:32.544
Rupert Isaacson: Where is that,
where in the US is that school?

00:04:32.634 --> 00:04:33.294
Celisse Barrett: In Tampa?

00:04:33.354 --> 00:04:33.924
Tampa Bay.

00:04:34.314 --> 00:04:34.374
Rupert Isaacson: Okay.

00:04:34.374 --> 00:04:34.764
Florida.

00:04:35.694 --> 00:04:39.384
Celisse Barrett: They had opened up as a
magnet school and I was the second year.

00:04:39.819 --> 00:04:42.739
Student they didn't have
seniors the first year.

00:04:42.739 --> 00:04:46.159
And the second year that was open
as a magnet performing arts school.

00:04:46.309 --> 00:04:47.209
I joined.

00:04:47.689 --> 00:04:52.969
And I think because of the
music background, you know,

00:04:52.999 --> 00:04:54.619
perfect practice means perfect.

00:04:54.619 --> 00:04:54.709
Right?

00:04:55.189 --> 00:05:00.529
That's how you get, and music is so
critical that I think all the years

00:05:00.529 --> 00:05:04.129
of being beat up classically training.

00:05:04.399 --> 00:05:04.489
Rupert Isaacson: Mm-hmm.

00:05:04.679 --> 00:05:05.939
Celisse Barrett: Because
it's, it's cutthroat.

00:05:05.939 --> 00:05:09.359
I mean, I guess all entertainment
and performing arts is cutthroat

00:05:09.359 --> 00:05:14.429
in a way, but with your instrument,
you're not able to hide behind your

00:05:14.429 --> 00:05:18.209
instrument the way you can hide,
I guess, somewhat behind a horse.

00:05:18.719 --> 00:05:18.899
Rupert Isaacson: Okay.

00:05:18.929 --> 00:05:22.499
Celisse Barrett: And if that, I don't
know if that makes sense or resonates.

00:05:22.509 --> 00:05:22.929
Oh, I've

00:05:22.929 --> 00:05:24.489
Rupert Isaacson: hidden behind
a few horses in my time.

00:05:24.879 --> 00:05:25.299
Celisse Barrett: Yeah, yeah.

00:05:25.929 --> 00:05:27.789
Like, oh, I didn't do it,
but maybe the horse did it.

00:05:27.789 --> 00:05:28.599
I don't know what happened.

00:05:28.929 --> 00:05:29.019
Rupert Isaacson: Yeah.

00:05:29.019 --> 00:05:29.139
But

00:05:29.139 --> 00:05:33.079
Celisse Barrett: when you're playing on
stage it's all out there from your breath

00:05:33.199 --> 00:05:36.829
to your, I mean, the second you walk out
there, you are in charge of everything.

00:05:36.829 --> 00:05:39.019
If you go flat, you can't blame the flute.

00:05:39.329 --> 00:05:40.169
It is all you.

00:05:40.169 --> 00:05:47.469
And I think I was just so, I was so tired
of being critiqued all the time that I

00:05:47.469 --> 00:05:52.779
had scholarships to go into college for
music, and I turned them down because I

00:05:52.779 --> 00:05:56.289
was, it was too much, almost too much.

00:05:57.099 --> 00:05:57.219
Mm-hmm.

00:05:57.489 --> 00:05:58.389
I had, like, at one point I had 20 pieces.

00:05:58.389 --> 00:06:03.029
I was playing from soloist,
pieces to I was a part of the,

00:06:03.029 --> 00:06:04.199
the school had a symphony.

00:06:04.289 --> 00:06:07.959
The school actually, when we did
musicals for musical, the musical

00:06:07.959 --> 00:06:11.529
theater department, the school
did not have recorded audio.

00:06:11.529 --> 00:06:14.199
It was all live, played by the
students in the orchestra pit.

00:06:14.199 --> 00:06:16.959
We were the first high school to
have an orchestra pit in the United

00:06:16.959 --> 00:06:17.379
Rupert Isaacson: States.

00:06:18.279 --> 00:06:18.369
Celisse Barrett: Wow.

00:06:18.404 --> 00:06:22.749
So when I say it was a heavy
music program, it was so heavy.

00:06:22.809 --> 00:06:26.259
We had to audition every year
for all county and all State.

00:06:26.259 --> 00:06:27.249
That was a requirement.

00:06:27.489 --> 00:06:29.169
We had to audition for Julliard.

00:06:29.979 --> 00:06:30.999
That was a requirement.

00:06:30.999 --> 00:06:31.029
Okay.

00:06:31.509 --> 00:06:34.239
Like that tells you how extreme it was.

00:06:34.299 --> 00:06:37.329
And so, and after every performance,
there's always that person in

00:06:37.329 --> 00:06:40.689
the background that's saying,
Hey, here's what you did great.

00:06:40.689 --> 00:06:41.739
Here's what you did bad.

00:06:41.739 --> 00:06:41.799
Yeah.

00:06:41.859 --> 00:06:47.079
And a lot of times I always felt
like it was more bad than good.

00:06:47.799 --> 00:06:47.889
Rupert Isaacson: Right.

00:06:47.894 --> 00:06:48.004
And,

00:06:48.369 --> 00:06:54.219
Celisse Barrett: and so no, I wasn't a
very confident person coming out of into

00:06:54.309 --> 00:06:57.189
the performing arts world at that time.

00:06:57.699 --> 00:06:57.909
My life.

00:06:57.909 --> 00:06:57.999
And

00:06:58.479 --> 00:06:58.749
Rupert Isaacson: you've always
been a horse woman, right?

00:06:59.529 --> 00:07:00.069
You'd always been around horses?

00:07:00.069 --> 00:07:00.099
Oh

00:07:00.669 --> 00:07:01.029
Celisse Barrett: yes.

00:07:01.029 --> 00:07:02.469
I've been around horses my whole life.

00:07:02.469 --> 00:07:03.789
Horses were kind of my hobby.

00:07:04.069 --> 00:07:10.699
I've been riding since I was three,
and they were, I tried to get outta

00:07:10.699 --> 00:07:13.789
horses several times throughout high
school, and I always just kind of

00:07:13.789 --> 00:07:15.529
found myself falling back to them.

00:07:16.009 --> 00:07:17.659
Rupert Isaacson: Why did you
try and get out of horses?

00:07:18.679 --> 00:07:20.659
Celisse Barrett: I think because I was so.

00:07:22.204 --> 00:07:25.054
Smothered in the classical music world.

00:07:25.714 --> 00:07:31.564
That time was an issue, and
especially in high school for me.

00:07:32.194 --> 00:07:38.824
And once I stopped competing with horses,
I kind of lost my way for a little while.

00:07:39.224 --> 00:07:41.504
When I got on my own and I'm
like, well, what do I do if I

00:07:41.504 --> 00:07:43.574
don't have $150,000 show horse?

00:07:43.574 --> 00:07:45.404
Which I never, ever had.

00:07:46.184 --> 00:07:50.774
How do I, what, what do I do with the
skills that I had acquired in horses?

00:07:50.774 --> 00:07:51.134
What was

00:07:51.134 --> 00:07:52.874
Rupert Isaacson: your showing discipline?

00:07:53.654 --> 00:07:57.374
Celisse Barrett: I showed American
Saddlebreds Morgan's saddle seat mainly.

00:07:57.569 --> 00:07:57.859
Rupert Isaacson: Okay.

00:07:57.909 --> 00:08:00.159
Celisse Barrett: But yeah, I showed
Morgan's Arabians, national Show,

00:08:00.159 --> 00:08:03.759
horses, American Saddlebreds, all those
really hotheaded horses that don't stand

00:08:03.759 --> 00:08:06.304
still when you're trying to mount up
onto them and take 'em into the story.

00:08:06.304 --> 00:08:06.664
And why do

00:08:06.664 --> 00:08:08.184
Rupert Isaacson: you,
why them, why that style?

00:08:09.249 --> 00:08:11.649
Celisse Barrett: The, I
loved how hot they were.

00:08:11.979 --> 00:08:12.069
Mm-hmm.

00:08:12.309 --> 00:08:15.009
I loved the energy underneath
me that I felt with them.

00:08:15.009 --> 00:08:15.519
Rupert Isaacson: Mm-hmm.

00:08:15.570 --> 00:08:19.290
Celisse Barrett: It was
like riding a firecracker.

00:08:19.500 --> 00:08:19.590
Rupert Isaacson: Mm-hmm.

00:08:19.830 --> 00:08:19.950
I mean,

00:08:19.950 --> 00:08:22.380
Celisse Barrett: you never
knew which way it was gonna go.

00:08:22.830 --> 00:08:23.820
At least for me.

00:08:24.240 --> 00:08:27.960
But I love the thrill of how
much energy I felt underneath

00:08:27.960 --> 00:08:30.630
me when I was showing on them.

00:08:30.630 --> 00:08:34.950
And I loved being in the competitive
show ring, but it was just so expensive.

00:08:36.220 --> 00:08:40.150
Every time we would compete to go
into a show, it was, I mean, this

00:08:40.150 --> 00:08:43.120
was what, 25, 30 years ago now?

00:08:43.270 --> 00:08:43.960
I mean, it was.

00:08:45.625 --> 00:08:48.625
I think my show bill at the end
of the year was over $10,000.

00:08:48.835 --> 00:08:49.345
Rupert Isaacson: Wow.

00:08:49.765 --> 00:08:50.395
Back then.

00:08:50.515 --> 00:08:50.875
Yeah,

00:08:50.905 --> 00:08:51.745
Celisse Barrett: that's back then.

00:08:51.745 --> 00:08:52.105
Right?

00:08:52.105 --> 00:08:52.705
And that's, yeah.

00:08:52.705 --> 00:08:54.145
So, and that was just, that wasn't

00:08:54.145 --> 00:08:55.315
Rupert Isaacson: even like the top shows.

00:08:55.315 --> 00:08:55.675
Yeah,

00:08:56.245 --> 00:08:57.445
Celisse Barrett: no,
that wasn't even the top.

00:08:57.505 --> 00:08:59.755
No, I never went to the
world or anything like that.

00:08:59.755 --> 00:09:03.535
I didn't have a horse competitive
enough I to even make it to the top.

00:09:03.535 --> 00:09:07.285
And so I kind of got in a funk because
I, I mean, I had horses, but I didn't,

00:09:07.420 --> 00:09:10.615
I had a horse, but I didn't really
know what I wanted to do with my horse.

00:09:10.615 --> 00:09:11.185
Rupert Isaacson: Mm-hmm.

00:09:11.360 --> 00:09:15.965
Celisse Barrett: And I finally found
a I was reading the newspaper when

00:09:15.965 --> 00:09:20.105
they actually had jobs listed in the
newspaper, and Dixie Stampede was

00:09:20.105 --> 00:09:22.415
coming into town to Orlando, Florida.

00:09:23.045 --> 00:09:26.255
And I was like, well, shoot,
I ride horses as a hobby.

00:09:26.345 --> 00:09:29.975
I play, I've been a performer
my whole life with music.

00:09:30.815 --> 00:09:36.005
Why don't I just go ahead and
get on stage with a horse?

00:09:36.365 --> 00:09:36.935
Like they were, they were

00:09:37.445 --> 00:09:39.095
Rupert Isaacson: auditioning
riders for the show.

00:09:39.095 --> 00:09:39.245
They were

00:09:39.245 --> 00:09:40.325
Celisse Barrett: auditioning for riders.

00:09:40.325 --> 00:09:40.775
Yes.

00:09:40.835 --> 00:09:44.405
They had opened up a brand new show
and they had no riders yet to fill the

00:09:44.405 --> 00:09:47.315
Orlando location in Orlando, Florida.

00:09:47.855 --> 00:09:51.485
And I was like, well, let me just drive
over to Kissimmee, Florida where they

00:09:51.485 --> 00:09:58.535
were holding the auditions and let
me see if I'm good enough to do it.

00:09:58.805 --> 00:10:03.495
And I had enough stage
presence from the, my music.

00:10:04.235 --> 00:10:07.355
For all those years that I knew
what I was supposed to do on

00:10:07.355 --> 00:10:11.315
stage, but I never really thought
about combining the two together.

00:10:11.735 --> 00:10:13.055
Um Mm.

00:10:13.055 --> 00:10:14.645
And trying out for an equestrian theater.

00:10:14.855 --> 00:10:16.805
And that's when they hired me.

00:10:16.805 --> 00:10:19.145
That's where I found trick
riding when I saw trick riding

00:10:19.145 --> 00:10:20.465
for the very first time ever.

00:10:20.915 --> 00:10:21.760
And I was blown, blown away.

00:10:21.760 --> 00:10:22.175
And what was Dixon

00:10:22.175 --> 00:10:22.835
Rupert Isaacson: Stampede?

00:10:23.075 --> 00:10:24.040
What kind of a show was it?

00:10:24.725 --> 00:10:31.925
Celisse Barrett: The Dixie Stampede
originally was a show between the

00:10:32.115 --> 00:10:33.675
Confederates versus the Yankees.

00:10:34.185 --> 00:10:35.115
North versus South.

00:10:35.115 --> 00:10:35.145
Okay.

00:10:35.745 --> 00:10:38.725
So the first part of the show
would be it would introduce all

00:10:38.725 --> 00:10:41.425
the rider in a 10 person drill.

00:10:41.605 --> 00:10:44.635
There would be a bunch of specialty
acts, trick riding, Roman riding some

00:10:44.635 --> 00:10:49.535
dancing different, some carriage stuff.

00:10:49.535 --> 00:10:53.435
They herded some buffalo in the beginning
of the show, and then they would go on the

00:10:53.435 --> 00:10:56.315
second half of the show was a competition
between the north and the south.

00:10:57.020 --> 00:10:57.905
And, and the

00:10:57.905 --> 00:10:59.435
Rupert Isaacson: competition
would be what trick riding?

00:11:00.105 --> 00:11:00.825
Celisse Barrett: Actually, no.

00:11:00.825 --> 00:11:03.075
The trick riding was one of the
specialty acts in the beginning.

00:11:03.105 --> 00:11:03.135
Okay.

00:11:03.375 --> 00:11:06.595
The competition started out
with like the ring game.

00:11:06.655 --> 00:11:09.925
They got the, the soldiers would take
out their swords and they would ride

00:11:09.925 --> 00:11:13.675
under this apparatus that came down
from the ceiling that held rings.

00:11:13.675 --> 00:11:13.765
Oh yeah.

00:11:13.765 --> 00:11:17.005
And whoever speared the most rings
won that side for their team.

00:11:17.065 --> 00:11:21.085
And then another show was, or
another game was barrel racing.

00:11:21.175 --> 00:11:26.035
The girls would do a serpentine pattern,
one for the north and one for the south.

00:11:26.035 --> 00:11:27.625
Three girls, three on each side.

00:11:27.715 --> 00:11:29.575
And the first person to finish.

00:11:30.790 --> 00:11:33.370
Won a medal for their
team, ostrich racing.

00:11:33.430 --> 00:11:36.250
That was at the time there was
ostrich racing in the show.

00:11:36.760 --> 00:11:37.120
And

00:11:37.175 --> 00:11:38.885
Rupert Isaacson: as if that had
anything to do with the civil War.

00:11:39.845 --> 00:11:40.265
Celisse Barrett: Absolutely.

00:11:40.265 --> 00:11:44.225
Of course, you know how many people rode
into the infantry on a freaking bird

00:11:46.385 --> 00:11:47.975
that you can't control, by the way.

00:11:47.975 --> 00:11:49.445
I don't, you can't control them.

00:11:50.015 --> 00:11:52.045
So, yeah, it was, it was a wild show.

00:11:52.045 --> 00:11:53.155
It was, it was fun.

00:11:53.515 --> 00:11:54.680
Rupert Isaacson: And where first
did you do, how did that for

00:11:55.705 --> 00:11:56.815
Celisse Barrett: I did that for four years

00:11:57.565 --> 00:12:01.045
Rupert Isaacson: and you ended up, you
could have been in any one of those acts.

00:12:01.045 --> 00:12:02.275
So why the trick writing?

00:12:04.225 --> 00:12:07.525
Celisse Barrett: I was blown
away when I saw this girl.

00:12:08.155 --> 00:12:13.845
Her name was Leslie, and I saw her
turn upside down on her horse, drop

00:12:13.845 --> 00:12:20.145
the reins and fly upside down in
the arena from point A to point B.

00:12:20.265 --> 00:12:26.925
And that it was just, to me it was magic
to see how well that horse ran for her.

00:12:27.165 --> 00:12:29.775
She had no control over
the horse whatsoever.

00:12:29.775 --> 00:12:31.275
And that horse just knew the pattern

00:12:31.725 --> 00:12:32.235
period.

00:12:32.745 --> 00:12:34.755
And that was the first time I'd
ever really witnessed anything

00:12:34.755 --> 00:12:36.555
like that coming from saddle seat.

00:12:37.095 --> 00:12:40.935
And I think between saddle seat and music,
everything is about personal control.

00:12:40.935 --> 00:12:42.705
Control, control, control, yeah.

00:12:42.765 --> 00:12:43.575
Rupert Isaacson: Perfectionism.

00:12:44.115 --> 00:12:44.505
Celisse Barrett: Yes.

00:12:44.505 --> 00:12:47.955
And then to all of a sudden, watch
this girl let go of the reins,

00:12:47.985 --> 00:12:51.855
her horse run the pattern and the
horse just carry her flawlessly.

00:12:52.275 --> 00:12:53.985
It blew me away.

00:12:54.435 --> 00:12:57.135
And then to see the next trick
and then the next trick, and then

00:12:57.135 --> 00:12:59.355
the next trick, and now it like,
but of course, trick riding,

00:12:59.355 --> 00:13:02.705
Rupert Isaacson: we all know
is like all stunt all about

00:13:02.705 --> 00:13:06.485
control and preparation and it is
otherwise you get killed, you know?

00:13:06.485 --> 00:13:06.935
So

00:13:07.355 --> 00:13:07.535
Celisse Barrett: yeah.

00:13:08.105 --> 00:13:10.625
Rupert Isaacson: It must to some
degree also appeal to that side of you.

00:13:13.085 --> 00:13:16.715
Celisse Barrett: The, the freeness
of it is what appealed to me so much

00:13:16.715 --> 00:13:20.405
because yes, even though it is the
way we practice it is so controlled.

00:13:21.005 --> 00:13:24.455
Of course you don't see that out
there when you see it in the arena.

00:13:24.455 --> 00:13:28.305
First time you just see the final
picture and you're going, holy cow.

00:13:28.305 --> 00:13:29.235
How do you get to that?

00:13:29.815 --> 00:13:30.145
Oh, I think

00:13:30.145 --> 00:13:36.145
Rupert Isaacson: we all can see that the
amount of precision and control is insane.

00:13:36.415 --> 00:13:36.985
Insane.

00:13:37.045 --> 00:13:37.165
Yeah.

00:13:37.225 --> 00:13:40.255
You know, I think we,
that is loud and clear.

00:13:40.315 --> 00:13:43.675
Even it, it does not appear
like chaos, you know, at all.

00:13:44.035 --> 00:13:47.805
It looks like a science
applied, you know, at speed.

00:13:47.805 --> 00:13:48.045
Yeah, sure.

00:13:48.585 --> 00:13:51.405
You know, but okay, so you
do this for four years.

00:13:51.405 --> 00:13:54.765
You get involved in trick writing
and you become very good at it.

00:13:55.335 --> 00:13:58.695
What gave you the idea to
mix special needs with this?

00:13:59.625 --> 00:14:00.075
Celisse Barrett: Well,

00:14:02.265 --> 00:14:03.525
I always had a passion.

00:14:03.525 --> 00:14:05.385
It was just something
I always did in school.

00:14:05.385 --> 00:14:08.625
When I was in sixth grade,
I was a peer facilitator and

00:14:08.625 --> 00:14:10.425
I worked with children that.

00:14:11.805 --> 00:14:14.625
Had special needs and I would
go and tutor them after school.

00:14:14.935 --> 00:14:15.300
My cousin.

00:14:15.320 --> 00:14:15.620
But why,

00:14:15.625 --> 00:14:15.805
Rupert Isaacson: why?

00:14:15.805 --> 00:14:17.365
There's usually a story behind it.

00:14:18.985 --> 00:14:20.755
Celisse Barrett: I don't,
I don't really know why.

00:14:20.755 --> 00:14:22.015
I was just always wrong.

00:14:22.555 --> 00:14:22.825
Did you wake

00:14:22.825 --> 00:14:24.445
Rupert Isaacson: up one day and like,
oh, I want to tutor special needs kids?

00:14:24.445 --> 00:14:26.755
I mean, and you had a lot
of stuff going on too.

00:14:26.755 --> 00:14:28.015
You didn't really have a lot of time.

00:14:28.705 --> 00:14:30.595
Celisse Barrett: I think because of

00:14:36.175 --> 00:14:41.185
how I grew up in middle school, in high
school and my personal experiences, I

00:14:41.185 --> 00:14:46.855
always had, I don't know, it was always
just instinctual for me to help others.

00:14:47.485 --> 00:14:47.935
Rupert Isaacson: My cousin.

00:14:47.935 --> 00:14:48.600
Were you bullied?

00:14:48.700 --> 00:14:49.825
Did you have a tough time?

00:14:50.485 --> 00:14:52.405
Celisse Barrett: I had a very tough
time, especially in middle school.

00:14:52.435 --> 00:14:52.705
Yes.

00:14:52.705 --> 00:14:52.765
Why?

00:14:52.795 --> 00:14:53.605
I had a very tough time.

00:14:53.605 --> 00:14:53.875
Why middle?

00:14:53.875 --> 00:14:54.680
What happened?

00:14:54.680 --> 00:14:55.495
I was bullied a lot.

00:14:56.015 --> 00:14:56.255
In what

00:14:56.255 --> 00:14:58.745
Rupert Isaacson: sort of a way and why
do you think, why were you bullied?

00:14:58.745 --> 00:15:00.095
What was, what was the target?

00:15:00.785 --> 00:15:02.405
Celisse Barrett: I think it was,

00:15:08.255 --> 00:15:09.995
I don't really know why I was bullied.

00:15:10.095 --> 00:15:15.585
To be honest, I was kind of, and my middle
school, it was also a magnet school,

00:15:15.765 --> 00:15:18.315
but we were not in a great part of town.

00:15:19.155 --> 00:15:24.825
And honestly, I was bullied
by a lot of the local kids.

00:15:24.945 --> 00:15:25.215
Mm-hmm.

00:15:25.315 --> 00:15:29.035
Magnet schools, you have to
have a percentage of, of the

00:15:29.035 --> 00:15:31.615
district children in with the

00:15:32.585 --> 00:15:32.965
the gifted

00:15:33.475 --> 00:15:34.860
With the gifted kids.

00:15:34.980 --> 00:15:35.370
Yeah.

00:15:35.430 --> 00:15:36.090
And.

00:15:36.840 --> 00:15:41.520
Back then, I think bullying was
just kind of part of, I mean, it

00:15:41.520 --> 00:15:42.870
was a kind of a rite of passage.

00:15:43.080 --> 00:15:43.535
Rupert Isaacson: Yeah, sure.

00:15:43.535 --> 00:15:43.800
And I can't

00:15:43.800 --> 00:15:48.065
Celisse Barrett: tell you how many
times on the basketball court when I,

00:15:48.070 --> 00:15:54.750
I hated basketball and PE because these
girls would come up to me and I can't

00:15:54.750 --> 00:15:57.780
tell you how many times I was called
the cream filling of the Oreo cookie.

00:15:58.290 --> 00:15:58.410
Okay.

00:15:58.440 --> 00:15:58.770
And they

00:15:58.770 --> 00:16:01.560
would, two of them would come up
and they would just be ready to

00:16:01.560 --> 00:16:04.050
like smash into me on both sides.

00:16:04.050 --> 00:16:06.240
And I'm like, oh my God,
this is gonna hurt so bad.

00:16:06.240 --> 00:16:09.030
And but you couldn't say, back
then, you couldn't say anything.

00:16:09.330 --> 00:16:11.880
You just took it and then you
just went on with your day.

00:16:12.570 --> 00:16:12.660
Yeah.

00:16:12.675 --> 00:16:17.760
And so I don't know if I just
had a compassion for those that I

00:16:17.760 --> 00:16:19.950
always thought were the underdog.

00:16:20.670 --> 00:16:23.760
But I always noticed the people
that were sitting by themselves at

00:16:23.760 --> 00:16:25.530
the lunch in the lunchroom, Uhhuh.

00:16:25.595 --> 00:16:27.540
And I would always go and
sit with those people.

00:16:27.660 --> 00:16:28.800
Like, you're sitting by yourself.

00:16:28.800 --> 00:16:29.610
Who are you?

00:16:30.330 --> 00:16:31.500
Tell me more about you.

00:16:31.500 --> 00:16:33.600
And I would always try to
befriend those that didn't

00:16:33.600 --> 00:16:34.770
seem like they had any friends.

00:16:34.770 --> 00:16:39.270
'cause I always felt, even I had
a story, no one wanted to hear it.

00:16:39.270 --> 00:16:41.040
But even I had one as a kid, so.

00:16:41.430 --> 00:16:41.460
Mm.

00:16:41.460 --> 00:16:41.790
I'm sure

00:16:41.790 --> 00:16:47.080
these, my other kids, my other
peers at the time had a story too.

00:16:47.185 --> 00:16:47.405
Rupert Isaacson: Mm.

00:16:47.545 --> 00:16:49.450
Celisse Barrett: And you know,
and middle school's tough.

00:16:49.450 --> 00:16:50.890
Middle school kids don't.

00:16:50.890 --> 00:16:51.100
Yes.

00:16:51.100 --> 00:16:51.645
The kids are mean.

00:16:52.420 --> 00:16:56.530
I mean, I'm sorry, but at that
time, I mean it, you just.

00:16:56.995 --> 00:16:58.915
I was the minority at the, at that school.

00:16:59.050 --> 00:16:59.340
Rupert Isaacson: Yeah.

00:16:59.455 --> 00:17:01.885
Celisse Barrett: And actually
both my schools, middle school and

00:17:01.885 --> 00:17:02.905
high school, I was the minority.

00:17:02.905 --> 00:17:05.685
Although it did change in
high school some the bullying

00:17:05.685 --> 00:17:08.085
definitely died away a lot more.

00:17:08.085 --> 00:17:09.555
I think it's just a middle school thing

00:17:09.885 --> 00:17:10.575
Rupert Isaacson: that really

00:17:11.475 --> 00:17:12.585
Celisse Barrett: hit me hard.

00:17:13.155 --> 00:17:15.465
So much so that I hate, like I
remember walking into high school

00:17:15.465 --> 00:17:18.405
dreading that I was gonna have to
endure four more years of this,

00:17:19.005 --> 00:17:24.325
Type of peer real, these
dealing with all these different

00:17:24.325 --> 00:17:25.585
peers and these relationships.

00:17:25.585 --> 00:17:28.375
But I realized it changed a little bit
in high school when it wasn't nearly as

00:17:28.375 --> 00:17:29.615
cutthroat as it was in middle school.

00:17:30.265 --> 00:17:33.535
Rupert Isaacson: So you started
volunteering to tutor special needs kids.

00:17:34.045 --> 00:17:39.685
But that's quite a long way from
trick riding with special needs kids.

00:17:40.495 --> 00:17:40.555
Yeah.

00:17:40.555 --> 00:17:41.455
That's a tall order.

00:17:41.795 --> 00:17:44.075
What gave you the idea to
do what, what, what made you

00:17:44.075 --> 00:17:45.425
think that was even possible?

00:17:46.565 --> 00:17:52.115
Celisse Barrett: Well, it, for
me, it started with an accident

00:17:52.575 --> 00:17:54.435
back to those ostriches Okay.

00:17:54.435 --> 00:17:55.815
That we mentioned earlier.

00:17:56.125 --> 00:17:59.395
I had an accident on one
of the birds at the St.

00:17:59.425 --> 00:18:04.595
Dixie Stampede, and I had to learn
how to walk again after that.

00:18:05.155 --> 00:18:05.515
Rupert Isaacson: Wow.

00:18:05.515 --> 00:18:05.610
What happened?

00:18:05.610 --> 00:18:05.810
And.

00:18:07.030 --> 00:18:10.840
Celisse Barrett: My, it was a rehearsal
and we had new birds that were in the show

00:18:10.900 --> 00:18:12.640
that were practicing to go into the show.

00:18:12.825 --> 00:18:13.045
And

00:18:13.045 --> 00:18:15.645
Rupert Isaacson: just the situations
one finds oneself in, in life, right?

00:18:15.645 --> 00:18:15.845
Yeah,

00:18:16.015 --> 00:18:16.365
Celisse Barrett: right.

00:18:16.365 --> 00:18:16.685
Right.

00:18:16.925 --> 00:18:17.725
Here I'm on an

00:18:17.740 --> 00:18:18.845
Rupert Isaacson: ostrich that, I dunno,

00:18:20.295 --> 00:18:23.600
Celisse Barrett: brand new ostrich
350 pound bird that had, there's a

00:18:23.600 --> 00:18:25.100
reason why they survived the Ice Age.

00:18:25.370 --> 00:18:25.520
Yeah.

00:18:26.390 --> 00:18:30.260
But so we were running this rehearsal
and I remember thinking like, man,

00:18:30.260 --> 00:18:33.440
this is, these birds are not running
well, let's just get this over with.

00:18:33.440 --> 00:18:35.960
We're we, I feel like we
need more people out here.

00:18:35.960 --> 00:18:37.790
It was just, it was complete chaos.

00:18:38.330 --> 00:18:41.480
And so they're like, all right, well we
wanna take these, this bird one more time.

00:18:41.480 --> 00:18:42.560
We need someone to ride it.

00:18:42.830 --> 00:18:45.650
And I could ride the birds without,
they had a little harness that went

00:18:45.650 --> 00:18:50.300
underneath their wings and that you held
onto, well, many times in the show, if

00:18:50.300 --> 00:18:54.080
you're getting imbalanced in the show
with your scores, if the south has like

00:18:54.230 --> 00:18:58.280
five medals and the north only has one,
you might wanna start thinking about

00:18:58.280 --> 00:19:03.410
throwing the race for audience, for the
audience's standpoint, because you don't

00:19:03.410 --> 00:19:06.800
want the show to be blown away and no
chance for the other side not to win.

00:19:07.010 --> 00:19:10.670
So during the ostrich race, I could
easily throw the race if I needed

00:19:10.670 --> 00:19:12.170
to, to even out the playing field.

00:19:12.170 --> 00:19:14.860
And I didn't necessarily
need a a harness to ride.

00:19:15.550 --> 00:19:18.910
Well, they didn't have a harness
ready during this rehearsal.

00:19:19.210 --> 00:19:20.980
And I was like, forget it,
let just get on the bird.

00:19:20.980 --> 00:19:22.210
Let's end this rehearsal.

00:19:22.870 --> 00:19:23.470
Let's go.

00:19:24.130 --> 00:19:29.200
And I get on the bird and
this bird is running wild and.

00:19:29.935 --> 00:19:33.715
Before I know it, I'm coming off
the bird and my leg slips in between

00:19:33.715 --> 00:19:35.335
the bird's legs while it's running.

00:19:35.665 --> 00:19:39.475
And I tore four ligaments
in my knee, like it snapped.

00:19:39.655 --> 00:19:42.265
Like I could, I heard my
knee snap, like rubber bands.

00:19:42.805 --> 00:19:43.315
Rupert Isaacson: Okay.

00:19:43.315 --> 00:19:45.805
And just from the kick that fell out.

00:19:46.645 --> 00:19:46.885
Celisse Barrett: Yeah.

00:19:46.885 --> 00:19:50.605
Well, it got caught the, into the, it,
it got caught between the bird's legs.

00:19:50.605 --> 00:19:53.275
So it was like putting my knee
into like a grinding wheel.

00:19:53.575 --> 00:19:54.235
Rupert Isaacson: Yes.

00:19:54.565 --> 00:19:56.305
Celisse Barrett: And
it just, there's, yeah.

00:19:56.605 --> 00:19:59.035
I mean, there's a reason why
those birds, they tell you

00:19:59.035 --> 00:20:00.295
stay away from the front legs.

00:20:00.535 --> 00:20:00.715
Yeah.

00:20:00.715 --> 00:20:02.575
They are so strong.

00:20:02.965 --> 00:20:03.385
Rupert Isaacson: Yeah.

00:20:03.385 --> 00:20:08.085
Celisse Barrett: And so I completely
jacked up my knee that day and it

00:20:08.085 --> 00:20:12.835
took me probably about two years
before I could walk without a limp.

00:20:13.315 --> 00:20:13.465
Rupert Isaacson: Okay.

00:20:13.825 --> 00:20:20.905
Celisse Barrett: And I remember saying, if
I can ever trick ride again, I will never

00:20:20.905 --> 00:20:26.335
take walking for granted because I finally
had found the thing that I love most.

00:20:26.335 --> 00:20:29.245
I found that thing that
put me in my flow zone.

00:20:29.520 --> 00:20:29.940
Mm-hmm.

00:20:30.020 --> 00:20:34.795
That place where I, it didn't matter
how many people that watched or

00:20:34.795 --> 00:20:36.685
didn't watch, I loved trick riding.

00:20:36.880 --> 00:20:37.300
Rupert Isaacson: Mm-hmm.

00:20:37.385 --> 00:20:37.705
I loved

00:20:37.705 --> 00:20:40.075
Celisse Barrett: how it felt
physically, mentally, emotionally,

00:20:40.525 --> 00:20:44.965
and, and the connection that I
had with my trick riding horses.

00:20:45.535 --> 00:20:48.355
And it's a different connection than
I've had with any other type of horse.

00:20:48.685 --> 00:20:48.835
Rupert Isaacson: Mm-hmm.

00:20:49.505 --> 00:20:52.055
Celisse Barrett: I mean, you're trusting
them with everything that you have and

00:20:52.055 --> 00:20:56.885
you're saying, carry me from point A to
point B and carry me fully confidently.

00:20:57.350 --> 00:20:58.280
Without flaw.

00:20:58.280 --> 00:21:02.150
And they, and my trick riding
horses, they did it so perfectly.

00:21:02.150 --> 00:21:09.110
And then when I tore my knee and had to
learn how to walk again, all I could think

00:21:09.110 --> 00:21:14.450
of was, oh my God, please don't let this
be the last time I ever experienced this.

00:21:14.720 --> 00:21:15.170
Rupert Isaacson: Mm-hmm.

00:21:15.290 --> 00:21:17.990
Celisse Barrett: Especially to
a stupid bird of all things.

00:21:19.080 --> 00:21:19.300
So

00:21:19.565 --> 00:21:21.755
Rupert Isaacson: I presume that you
then couldn't go on with the show

00:21:21.755 --> 00:21:23.165
after you had that accident, right?

00:21:23.885 --> 00:21:24.425
Celisse Barrett: Correct.

00:21:24.605 --> 00:21:28.555
I actually went up and auditioned
for Caval at the time and came back

00:21:28.555 --> 00:21:31.915
and had the accident a week later
and had to call Caval and tell them

00:21:32.545 --> 00:21:32.935
Rupert Isaacson: I can't

00:21:32.935 --> 00:21:33.265
Celisse Barrett: go.

00:21:34.135 --> 00:21:41.265
And so anyway, so yeah, that started
a very long road and that is basically

00:21:41.265 --> 00:21:50.325
the, that was the catalyst that
inspired me to work with those that

00:21:50.625 --> 00:21:52.515
didn't have the same abilities that

00:21:52.575 --> 00:21:53.235
Rupert Isaacson: I had.

00:21:53.835 --> 00:21:56.385
But what made you think
that you knew the dangers?

00:21:56.385 --> 00:21:59.745
I mean, what made you think that
that was possible to do with

00:21:59.745 --> 00:22:01.305
this very vulnerable population?

00:22:03.045 --> 00:22:05.235
Celisse Barrett: Because I was able
to get it back and do it again.

00:22:06.165 --> 00:22:06.465
Rupert Isaacson: Okay.

00:22:06.465 --> 00:22:06.675
If

00:22:06.675 --> 00:22:12.105
Celisse Barrett: I could rebuild
myself and really work hard and belief,

00:22:12.105 --> 00:22:14.155
belief was the biggest thing I had to.

00:22:15.235 --> 00:22:18.745
It took me a while to get out
of my mental funk that I was in,

00:22:18.745 --> 00:22:21.505
and I finally just had to believe
enough that I could do it again.

00:22:22.105 --> 00:22:26.455
And I remember pushing through pain
like nobody else had ever pushed

00:22:26.455 --> 00:22:27.655
through pain before in my life.

00:22:27.715 --> 00:22:30.865
Like, I mean, I know like there's,
there's a type of pain that you go through

00:22:30.865 --> 00:22:34.165
when you're trying to learn any type of
circus art, and you kind of take that

00:22:34.165 --> 00:22:38.005
pain as a rite of passage and it make
what doesn't kill you make you stronger.

00:22:38.185 --> 00:22:40.645
And I was like, all right, if
I can get through this, then

00:22:40.705 --> 00:22:42.925
I can get through anything.

00:22:42.925 --> 00:22:47.125
And I knew what it was like to
feel like I had everything and then

00:22:47.125 --> 00:22:48.505
to instantly have it taken away.

00:22:48.985 --> 00:22:49.105
Rupert Isaacson: Hmm.

00:22:50.005 --> 00:22:51.985
Celisse Barrett: And it wasn't
even doing the thing that I loved.

00:22:53.215 --> 00:22:53.275
Yeah.

00:22:53.275 --> 00:22:55.585
And I honestly hated the ostriches.

00:22:56.395 --> 00:22:58.345
It was like my least favorite thing to do.

00:22:58.645 --> 00:23:04.765
And but so anyway, once I got that,
once I got myself physically back my

00:23:04.765 --> 00:23:08.935
first show was at a special needs camp.

00:23:08.995 --> 00:23:10.945
And now my husband hasn't been involved.

00:23:10.945 --> 00:23:13.315
Jason has been involved with this
camp since he was 12 years old.

00:23:14.155 --> 00:23:16.555
And we were moving to Mobile, Alabama.

00:23:16.555 --> 00:23:17.185
We just had our daughter.

00:23:17.185 --> 00:23:17.455
And by the

00:23:17.455 --> 00:23:19.495
Rupert Isaacson: way, listeners,
we're gonna be having Jason, who's

00:23:19.495 --> 00:23:25.195
also incredible on our other podcast,
live Free, ride Free quite soon.

00:23:25.195 --> 00:23:27.025
So you will get a bit of Jason all.

00:23:27.640 --> 00:23:27.930
Yeah.

00:23:27.935 --> 00:23:28.135
Yeah.

00:23:28.135 --> 00:23:28.825
You're gonna love him.

00:23:28.915 --> 00:23:29.875
Celisse Barrett: He's he's great.

00:23:29.875 --> 00:23:29.885
Yeah.

00:23:29.885 --> 00:23:30.170
He's brilliant.

00:23:30.205 --> 00:23:30.745
Rupert Isaacson: Yeah, he's brilliant.

00:23:31.555 --> 00:23:33.265
Celisse Barrett: And so he is
like, well, I really wanna take you

00:23:33.265 --> 00:23:36.655
to this camp that I grew up with
as a kid, which was Camp Smile.

00:23:36.955 --> 00:23:39.775
And he had spent his whole life
working with special needs.

00:23:40.355 --> 00:23:43.835
And so I was like, awesome,
let's go check it out and see.

00:23:43.955 --> 00:23:46.355
Do you think they would
want me to trick ride?

00:23:46.845 --> 00:23:49.785
Now mind you, this is
not far past my injury.

00:23:50.215 --> 00:23:55.825
Since then, I've had a kid, Jason,
and I had a, a daughter in 2007,

00:23:56.845 --> 00:23:59.845
and my accident was in 2005.

00:23:59.845 --> 00:24:03.955
So my first trick riding show
outside of the Dixie Stampede

00:24:04.795 --> 00:24:06.805
was this special needs camp.

00:24:07.915 --> 00:24:12.385
And again, coming from that cutthroat

00:24:14.485 --> 00:24:19.285
era of entertainment, this accident
honestly, was probably the best

00:24:19.285 --> 00:24:20.455
thing that ever happened to me.

00:24:20.485 --> 00:24:23.725
And I can't believe I'm actually
saying that, but in hindsight, it

00:24:23.725 --> 00:24:28.225
really was because it forced me to
leave the Dixie Stampede, or it forced

00:24:28.225 --> 00:24:32.425
me to relieve all my peers, and it
forced me to find something completely

00:24:32.425 --> 00:24:34.885
hidden that I had no idea existed.

00:24:35.305 --> 00:24:41.275
And I remember standing up on my
horse for the first time to perform.

00:24:41.305 --> 00:24:41.885
D And this is your own

00:24:41.905 --> 00:24:43.915
Rupert Isaacson: horse that you
brought in, trained and brought

00:24:43.915 --> 00:24:45.505
to the camp, or you joined a team?

00:24:46.315 --> 00:24:46.495
Yes.

00:24:47.035 --> 00:24:47.065
Celisse Barrett: Okay.

00:24:47.065 --> 00:24:47.205
No, no, no.

00:24:47.205 --> 00:24:47.545
I'm sorry.

00:24:47.545 --> 00:24:47.755
Yes.

00:24:47.755 --> 00:24:48.655
I bought my own horse.

00:24:48.655 --> 00:24:51.805
I actually bought my trick riding horse
from the Dixie Stampede before I left.

00:24:51.955 --> 00:24:52.375
Rupert Isaacson: Okay.

00:24:52.465 --> 00:24:54.445
Celisse Barrett: And took him with me.

00:24:56.080 --> 00:24:57.085
And hope, and he'd been kind

00:24:57.085 --> 00:24:58.165
Rupert Isaacson: of out
of work all this time.

00:24:58.165 --> 00:25:00.475
And then you'd, you'd gone and had a kid.

00:25:00.475 --> 00:25:01.915
How'd you, how'd you feed yourself?

00:25:03.215 --> 00:25:07.155
Celisse Barrett: I actually temporarily
worked as a court reporter in Tampa

00:25:07.275 --> 00:25:08.835
at the courthouse for a while.

00:25:08.955 --> 00:25:11.275
And that's what I did when
I was pregnant with Marley.

00:25:11.905 --> 00:25:12.445
Rupert Isaacson: Okay.

00:25:12.895 --> 00:25:19.935
Celisse Barrett: And I worked for the
juvenile dependency courts for the,

00:25:21.165 --> 00:25:23.595
for Tampa's I think 15th Precinct.

00:25:24.005 --> 00:25:27.935
I worked under Judge Sheehan, and
that is probably the worst job you

00:25:27.935 --> 00:25:29.165
can ever have while you're pregnant.

00:25:29.675 --> 00:25:35.405
Because I was in there with all juveniles,
they were all kids that were either going

00:25:35.405 --> 00:25:37.235
through termination of parental rights.

00:25:37.805 --> 00:25:38.195
Rupert Isaacson: Okay.

00:25:38.295 --> 00:25:40.905
Celisse Barrett: It was a very hard,
it was easier for me to work in.

00:25:41.835 --> 00:25:42.165
Go ahead.

00:25:42.730 --> 00:25:43.410
Rupert Isaacson: I said oi.

00:25:43.410 --> 00:25:43.610
Yeah.

00:25:43.815 --> 00:25:44.925
I mean, that just must have been Oh yeah.

00:25:44.930 --> 00:25:45.410
Heartbreaking.

00:25:46.605 --> 00:25:48.165
Celisse Barrett: It was, it
was, it was very heartbreaking.

00:25:48.165 --> 00:25:52.635
I would've much rather been in 15
murder trials constantly then have to

00:25:52.635 --> 00:25:56.625
deal with kids with parental rights
and getting their parents taken,

00:25:56.775 --> 00:26:01.815
getting them taken away from their
parents or their parents just not

00:26:01.815 --> 00:26:05.295
being fit enough to care for them.

00:26:05.655 --> 00:26:09.105
And it was a very heartbreaking
thing to be put into.

00:26:09.615 --> 00:26:11.265
And it,

00:26:11.445 --> 00:26:13.515
Rupert Isaacson: by the way, how did you
end up, that seems, again, so random.

00:26:13.515 --> 00:26:14.895
How did you end up as a court reporter?

00:26:14.895 --> 00:26:16.725
That's a fairly specialist job.

00:26:17.520 --> 00:26:18.060
Celisse Barrett: It is.

00:26:18.090 --> 00:26:21.770
I had a friend working in the courts
at the time and she knew I was looking

00:26:21.770 --> 00:26:26.920
for work and she actually hooked me
up with the job and yeah, I did some

00:26:26.920 --> 00:26:30.850
training and it wasn't the same as a
stenographer because they're starting

00:26:30.850 --> 00:26:32.770
to change some of the courts houses.

00:26:32.770 --> 00:26:35.410
They changed how they do transcribing.

00:26:35.890 --> 00:26:35.980
Mm-hmm.

00:26:36.170 --> 00:26:39.290
And everybody is on their
own microphone Okay.

00:26:39.350 --> 00:26:41.330
When they're in these court cases.

00:26:41.330 --> 00:26:45.920
And so my job was to go in there, hook
up everyone's microphone to them and make

00:26:45.920 --> 00:26:53.000
sure that I annotated on my own program
who was speaking when, because when

00:26:53.000 --> 00:26:58.900
you're dealing with like a kid trial with
minors, you would have not only the, the

00:26:58.900 --> 00:27:02.200
parents would have their own attorney,
the kid would have their own attorney.

00:27:02.260 --> 00:27:04.670
They would also have a
guardian ad litem yeah.

00:27:04.730 --> 00:27:05.630
Speaking for them.

00:27:05.660 --> 00:27:07.130
They'd have social workers involved.

00:27:07.130 --> 00:27:09.770
Like sometimes I'd be sitting
at a table of 16 people.

00:27:09.770 --> 00:27:09.830
Yeah.

00:27:10.160 --> 00:27:10.520
Rupert Isaacson: And

00:27:10.580 --> 00:27:12.170
Celisse Barrett: you wouldn't
know whose voice was who.

00:27:12.170 --> 00:27:15.200
And so it was my job to
connect the voice to the

00:27:15.620 --> 00:27:15.950
Rupert Isaacson: Okay.

00:27:15.950 --> 00:27:16.130
And the

00:27:16.130 --> 00:27:18.140
Celisse Barrett: transcripts
to the court hearings.

00:27:18.800 --> 00:27:22.550
Rupert Isaacson: So again, I could see
how for your special needs training

00:27:22.550 --> 00:27:27.170
to watch children going through that
kind of trauma and pain, and a lot

00:27:27.170 --> 00:27:30.230
of these kids must have been special
needs as well of one kind or another.

00:27:30.230 --> 00:27:30.620
Some of them

00:27:30.620 --> 00:27:30.890
Celisse Barrett: were,

00:27:31.400 --> 00:27:31.610
Rupert Isaacson: yeah.

00:27:31.670 --> 00:27:34.750
Celisse Barrett: Some of them
were a lot of them was they,

00:27:34.750 --> 00:27:36.640
it was a product of poverty.

00:27:37.150 --> 00:27:37.540
Rupert Isaacson: Yeah.

00:27:37.960 --> 00:27:40.210
Celisse Barrett: And I hate to
say it, and at the time you don't

00:27:40.210 --> 00:27:43.870
realize how much poverty does affect.

00:27:44.260 --> 00:27:45.040
Families.

00:27:45.460 --> 00:27:47.260
But when you come from nothing,

00:27:49.840 --> 00:27:54.010
and there's nothing to give
and no life experience to give,

00:27:54.010 --> 00:27:55.900
you only learn one way to live.

00:27:56.560 --> 00:28:01.870
And a lot of these kids were
just part of the, they were just

00:28:01.870 --> 00:28:03.400
constantly wrapped up in the system.

00:28:03.760 --> 00:28:06.490
I mean, and if they weren't
in, some of them were foster

00:28:06.490 --> 00:28:07.840
kids that weren't working out.

00:28:07.840 --> 00:28:07.900
Yeah.

00:28:08.210 --> 00:28:09.560
Parents wanted to adopt them.

00:28:09.560 --> 00:28:12.560
And then they, I mean, there
were, there were some beautiful

00:28:12.920 --> 00:28:13.940
proceedings that happened.

00:28:13.940 --> 00:28:15.110
The adoptions were great.

00:28:15.110 --> 00:28:17.240
They were all adoptions
are done off the record.

00:28:17.660 --> 00:28:19.250
And those were wins.

00:28:19.400 --> 00:28:23.330
But for every win there was 50 losses.

00:28:23.690 --> 00:28:23.810
Rupert Isaacson: Yeah.

00:28:24.050 --> 00:28:26.960
Celisse Barrett: And to see it
in such a big city and see the

00:28:26.960 --> 00:28:31.400
system, I mean, it was very hard.

00:28:31.400 --> 00:28:31.460
Yeah.

00:28:31.550 --> 00:28:33.980
It was very hard to see it,
it was very hard to watch it.

00:28:34.380 --> 00:28:37.470
Some of it was poverty, some of
it was just, I mean, kids needed

00:28:37.470 --> 00:28:38.640
to be out of these situations.

00:28:38.640 --> 00:28:39.630
Some of it was not good.

00:28:40.080 --> 00:28:41.940
It was the best thing for them to leave.

00:28:42.060 --> 00:28:44.940
The hardest one though, was to
watch siblings be separated.

00:28:45.660 --> 00:28:45.690
Mm.

00:28:45.690 --> 00:28:48.030
That was where it really
kind of hit you in the gut.

00:28:48.750 --> 00:28:50.340
Rupert Isaacson: And why did, there
were, why did they separate siblings?

00:28:50.340 --> 00:28:51.180
Why would they do that?

00:28:51.730 --> 00:28:54.430
Celisse Barrett: Because maybe
they were coming from a bad home

00:28:54.760 --> 00:28:58.120
and maybe one foster family could
take two of the six siblings.

00:28:58.570 --> 00:28:58.600
Rupert Isaacson: Okay.

00:28:58.600 --> 00:28:59.110
They weren't,

00:28:59.110 --> 00:29:01.150
Celisse Barrett: some of the families
coming in weren't able to take all

00:29:01.150 --> 00:29:02.680
of the siblings into all together.

00:29:02.680 --> 00:29:02.770
Rupert Isaacson: Right.

00:29:02.775 --> 00:29:02.855
Yeah.

00:29:02.855 --> 00:29:03.375
Large families.

00:29:04.240 --> 00:29:06.670
Celisse Barrett: There were some great
families that would come in and try

00:29:06.670 --> 00:29:09.520
to take, I'll take two of the brothers
if you take two of his sisters and

00:29:09.520 --> 00:29:11.050
we'll have play dates together Yeah.

00:29:11.050 --> 00:29:12.820
Where they can kind of keep
the connection of the siblings.

00:29:12.820 --> 00:29:15.820
So they did have some
great outcomes like that.

00:29:15.820 --> 00:29:18.850
But you're talking Tampa
Bay, it is a huge city.

00:29:19.330 --> 00:29:19.420
Rupert Isaacson: Yeah.

00:29:19.500 --> 00:29:21.300
Celisse Barrett: Millions
of people in that city.

00:29:21.510 --> 00:29:21.540
Yeah.

00:29:21.540 --> 00:29:25.320
I mean, if it's that bad there, imagine
where it's like in cities that are bigger.

00:29:25.740 --> 00:29:25.890
Yeah.

00:29:25.995 --> 00:29:28.355
And and so that was a very
eyeopening thing for me.

00:29:28.535 --> 00:29:33.785
And so I did learn very quickly what
it was like to not have opportunity

00:29:33.845 --> 00:29:37.385
and to know that these kids may
never have anything in their life

00:29:37.805 --> 00:29:37.895
Rupert Isaacson: Yeah.

00:29:37.895 --> 00:29:38.165
Other than

00:29:38.165 --> 00:29:41.345
Celisse Barrett: just hopes to have a roof
over their head and a place to call home.

00:29:41.705 --> 00:29:42.095
Rupert Isaacson: Yeah.

00:29:42.185 --> 00:29:45.425
Celisse Barrett: And for a child
not living with any sort of

00:29:46.895 --> 00:29:48.155
what's the word I'm looking for?

00:29:48.255 --> 00:29:53.985
Connection and having some commonality
in life like daily where, you know,

00:29:53.985 --> 00:29:56.235
you know, you're gonna come home
and mom is gonna be there and dad is

00:29:56.235 --> 00:29:57.885
gonna be there and no support system.

00:29:58.335 --> 00:30:03.135
It's hard for kids and they just get,
I mean, as a kid you think you're,

00:30:03.135 --> 00:30:06.585
you're still growing and you're still
impressionable and all these kids

00:30:06.585 --> 00:30:08.175
are just being kind of chucked away.

00:30:08.535 --> 00:30:08.595
Yeah.

00:30:08.595 --> 00:30:13.455
And people are, the adults are trying to
do the best that they can, but none of

00:30:13.455 --> 00:30:15.225
it is setting the kids up for success.

00:30:16.605 --> 00:30:16.995
Rupert Isaacson: Yeah.

00:30:17.165 --> 00:30:18.905
Celisse Barrett: Because they're just
jumping from one home to another.

00:30:18.905 --> 00:30:20.495
And you gotta think from.

00:30:21.020 --> 00:30:24.920
Set from two and three years
old to 18, those are some very

00:30:24.920 --> 00:30:26.840
impressionable years of a child's life.

00:30:27.200 --> 00:30:27.380
Rupert Isaacson: Yeah.

00:30:27.380 --> 00:30:27.530
I mean,

00:30:27.530 --> 00:30:29.420
Celisse Barrett: that's where all
the major programming happens.

00:30:29.600 --> 00:30:29.810
Rupert Isaacson: Yeah.

00:30:29.870 --> 00:30:33.950
Celisse Barrett: And if you have
no constant programming, you, I

00:30:33.950 --> 00:30:35.180
mean, they're setting up to fail.

00:30:35.720 --> 00:30:36.020
Rupert Isaacson: Yeah.

00:30:36.830 --> 00:30:39.200
Celisse Barrett: And that was the
hardest part to think about the job.

00:30:39.200 --> 00:30:43.130
And I'm sitting here pregnant with
Marley and I'm like, oh my gosh, I'm

00:30:43.130 --> 00:30:44.480
about to bring a kid into this world.

00:30:45.020 --> 00:30:46.730
And I really didn't have
anything at the time.

00:30:46.730 --> 00:30:48.740
I had that job and I had my horse.

00:30:49.160 --> 00:30:49.250
Rupert Isaacson: Mm-hmm.

00:30:49.250 --> 00:30:49.460
But

00:30:50.150 --> 00:30:51.560
Celisse Barrett: I had
nothing outside of that.

00:30:51.560 --> 00:30:54.080
And Jason, we had just
gotten back together.

00:30:54.830 --> 00:30:57.650
I'm sure you'll hear more about our
story through him, but he'll, he

00:30:57.650 --> 00:31:03.470
had just gotten off of a cruise ship
and Marley was not even born yet.

00:31:03.500 --> 00:31:06.860
He, she was born two weeks after
he got off of his cruise ship job.

00:31:07.370 --> 00:31:09.850
And and that's how we were
bringing a baby into this world.

00:31:09.850 --> 00:31:13.180
And I'm like, oh my gosh, I hope
to God I can give her something.

00:31:13.540 --> 00:31:13.690
Rupert Isaacson: Hmm.

00:31:13.790 --> 00:31:15.410
Celisse Barrett: Outside of
what I'm seeing, because when

00:31:15.410 --> 00:31:18.950
you're in it just every day, it
was just too much negativity.

00:31:19.370 --> 00:31:19.700
Mm-hmm.

00:31:19.756 --> 00:31:25.576
And so I think that really port that kind
of unconsciously did turn over into my

00:31:25.576 --> 00:31:28.406
work building what we built with the kids.

00:31:28.406 --> 00:31:34.376
Because not only if your special needs,
but again, poverty plays a huge role

00:31:34.376 --> 00:31:38.906
into what people can and can't do and
what they're allowed, what they're

00:31:38.906 --> 00:31:41.186
accessible for and not accessible for.

00:31:41.186 --> 00:31:42.856
And and I never wanted.

00:31:43.471 --> 00:31:48.271
Any of our clients or students to
not have access to things that they

00:31:48.271 --> 00:31:52.171
wanted to try or possibly needed
because finances were an issue.

00:31:52.621 --> 00:31:53.011
Rupert Isaacson: Right.

00:31:53.971 --> 00:31:54.571
Okay.

00:31:54.751 --> 00:31:56.241
So you do this ca camp.

00:31:56.241 --> 00:31:58.401
You do a performance at
the Camp, camp Smile.

00:31:59.301 --> 00:32:06.141
And what gives you the idea to
start an act that is both a kind

00:32:06.141 --> 00:32:10.941
of professional level act and
also a special needs program?

00:32:12.111 --> 00:32:16.851
Celisse Barrett: Well, I now, mind
you, I came from the mental mindset of

00:32:16.851 --> 00:32:20.091
classical music and equestrian theater.

00:32:20.601 --> 00:32:28.131
Both were very cutthroat, but I went
into this camp and I did this horrific

00:32:28.941 --> 00:32:31.131
performance of trick riding in my mind.

00:32:31.131 --> 00:32:33.591
I'm like, oh my gosh, this was
the worst thing I've ever done.

00:32:33.591 --> 00:32:34.371
What am I doing?

00:32:35.691 --> 00:32:38.721
Those kids cheered so loudly.

00:32:38.726 --> 00:32:39.056
Mm-hmm.

00:32:39.136 --> 00:32:42.776
And they wanted to see the
same stunt over and over.

00:32:43.086 --> 00:32:43.376
Okay.

00:32:43.436 --> 00:32:45.201
And over and over.

00:32:45.261 --> 00:32:46.581
And I was like, you know what?

00:32:47.121 --> 00:32:47.841
Fine.

00:32:47.931 --> 00:32:48.741
I'll give it to 'em.

00:32:48.741 --> 00:32:50.781
If they wanna see it
again, I will do it again.

00:32:50.781 --> 00:32:52.611
And I did it again and again and

00:32:52.611 --> 00:32:52.881
Rupert Isaacson: again.

00:32:53.331 --> 00:32:53.721
Yeah.

00:32:53.916 --> 00:32:58.791
Celisse Barrett: And it was just as good
the first time as it was the eighth time.

00:32:58.911 --> 00:32:59.181
Rupert Isaacson: Absolutely.

00:32:59.181 --> 00:33:02.121
But I've performed it,
you know, it's so true.

00:33:02.171 --> 00:33:07.971
I've been on a play date, for example,
with kids in the forest with horses riding

00:33:07.971 --> 00:33:09.981
with them, and then there's a tree down.

00:33:10.471 --> 00:33:13.711
This has happened a couple of times,
particularly in Germany, and so I've

00:33:13.711 --> 00:33:21.091
had to give the kid to my sidewalk and
jump the horse over the log and then

00:33:21.631 --> 00:33:25.021
retrieve the kid on the other side, and
they'll make me do it like 20 times.

00:33:25.171 --> 00:33:26.551
They're like, well, you
know, that is, yeah.

00:33:26.616 --> 00:33:28.141
I, I, I so know what you mean it.

00:33:28.381 --> 00:33:28.921
Yeah.

00:33:29.521 --> 00:33:32.071
And it makes you look at the whole
thing through a very different lens.

00:33:32.761 --> 00:33:33.211
Celisse Barrett: Yes.

00:33:34.051 --> 00:33:37.621
And that was the lens that changed
everything, that it turned, it put

00:33:37.621 --> 00:33:41.011
on a new filter on my camera, and
I was like, wow, wait a minute.

00:33:42.691 --> 00:33:49.921
In my mind, from what I came from,
it was absurd to do it 10 times

00:33:49.921 --> 00:33:50.941
over and over and over again.

00:33:50.941 --> 00:33:54.211
The same stunt where people would
normally get bored, but these kids, it

00:33:54.211 --> 00:33:57.751
was like, they were like powerhouses and
they just kept getting more energized

00:33:57.751 --> 00:33:59.341
and more energized every time I did it.

00:33:59.341 --> 00:34:05.311
And that was like when the first
light bulb came on in my head, and

00:34:08.341 --> 00:34:12.121
I realized at that time that
what I had to offer was enough.

00:34:12.121 --> 00:34:12.151
Okay.

00:34:12.991 --> 00:34:16.771
I didn't have to be the best at that time.

00:34:17.161 --> 00:34:18.271
I just had to.

00:34:19.996 --> 00:34:22.816
Be exactly who I was
at that moment in time.

00:34:22.876 --> 00:34:28.326
And that was kind of my big, I guess,
epiphany into trying, well actually it's

00:34:28.326 --> 00:34:29.646
actually, it happened right after that.

00:34:29.646 --> 00:34:30.786
So I did my performance.

00:34:31.146 --> 00:34:31.896
They loved it.

00:34:33.666 --> 00:34:35.046
Same tricks over and over again.

00:34:35.136 --> 00:34:35.826
They didn't care.

00:34:35.826 --> 00:34:37.506
It was epic every single time.

00:34:37.806 --> 00:34:41.736
And then I went down, another woman was
directing the horse program at the time,

00:34:42.126 --> 00:34:45.336
and I wanted to walk down and see what
they were doing in their horse program.

00:34:46.236 --> 00:34:49.206
And I get down to the bottom of the
field where, and I'm watching them ride

00:34:49.986 --> 00:34:52.926
and they're like, Hey, ly, look at me.

00:34:53.196 --> 00:34:54.636
I can do a trick too.

00:34:55.386 --> 00:34:57.786
And then they would let go of the
horn and put their hands out to the

00:34:57.786 --> 00:34:59.226
side or put their hands up in the air.

00:34:59.226 --> 00:35:00.396
And that was their big trick.

00:35:00.786 --> 00:35:01.206
Rupert Isaacson: Yeah.

00:35:01.206 --> 00:35:01.386
And

00:35:01.386 --> 00:35:03.576
Celisse Barrett: that was
when I had the aha moment.

00:35:03.756 --> 00:35:07.146
And I'm like, oh, okay, wait a minute.

00:35:08.916 --> 00:35:12.336
Obviously know that holding onto a
horse with no hands is not a trick,

00:35:12.456 --> 00:35:14.376
but in their minds it was a trick.

00:35:14.376 --> 00:35:14.886
Absolutely.

00:35:14.886 --> 00:35:15.576
It's all a matter

00:35:15.576 --> 00:35:16.296
Rupert Isaacson: of perception.

00:35:16.671 --> 00:35:17.161
Celisse Barrett: Exactly.

00:35:17.496 --> 00:35:18.666
And I was like, you know what?

00:35:20.076 --> 00:35:21.126
I could work with this.

00:35:21.666 --> 00:35:21.936
Rupert Isaacson: Yeah.

00:35:21.966 --> 00:35:22.656
Celisse Barrett: This is cool.

00:35:23.196 --> 00:35:26.046
And never in a million years did I
ever, when I started trick writing,

00:35:26.046 --> 00:35:29.256
did I think I would be incorporating
it into the special needs world.

00:35:30.396 --> 00:35:30.426
Okay.

00:35:30.426 --> 00:35:35.826
And, but then I realized those kids
taught me how empowering it was.

00:35:37.356 --> 00:35:40.056
And I'm like, if they were this
empowered by what little bit that

00:35:40.056 --> 00:35:45.276
I did, how much more empowered can
they be if I actually let them try?

00:35:47.196 --> 00:35:48.486
And that's when it all started.

00:35:49.296 --> 00:35:56.286
Rupert Isaacson: Now I can immediately
hear like 25 old school therapeutic

00:35:56.286 --> 00:35:58.596
riding people going, it's so dangerous.

00:35:58.596 --> 00:35:59.496
You can't do that.

00:35:59.496 --> 00:35:59.766
You know?

00:35:59.766 --> 00:36:00.366
You can't.

00:36:00.371 --> 00:36:00.471
Oh

00:36:00.471 --> 00:36:00.551
yeah.

00:36:00.906 --> 00:36:02.166
Do you know, because I get all that right.

00:36:02.166 --> 00:36:05.376
You can't work with kids at
the Canor, you can't work with

00:36:05.376 --> 00:36:07.296
kids who can't wear a helmet.

00:36:07.566 --> 00:36:09.456
You can't do this, you can't do that.

00:36:10.536 --> 00:36:13.626
And of course, one absolutely can.

00:36:14.496 --> 00:36:18.756
And I, I'm being used to be the one who
gets the stick, you know, for doing those

00:36:18.756 --> 00:36:23.076
sorts of things and like right into you
and you're like, how do you even do it?

00:36:23.076 --> 00:36:24.456
It's like, my hat's off to you.

00:36:24.726 --> 00:36:25.926
So, yeah.

00:36:25.976 --> 00:36:27.476
So you decided to do this.

00:36:27.686 --> 00:36:33.986
Talk to me about how you envisaged
the program and how you got it going

00:36:34.046 --> 00:36:39.716
and then where you sort of encountered
reality with it and then Yeah.

00:36:39.716 --> 00:36:39.926
Yeah.

00:36:39.926 --> 00:36:43.016
The whole sort of growth and
maturation process of it.

00:36:43.526 --> 00:36:44.336
'cause it's intriguing.

00:36:45.206 --> 00:36:50.006
Celisse Barrett: So Ssie Lowell, she was
the director of Camp Smile at the time.

00:36:50.816 --> 00:36:55.376
The camp was moving and they were
moving to a location where the

00:36:55.376 --> 00:36:59.466
old therapeutic writing destruct
instructor who was PATH certified,

00:36:59.916 --> 00:37:02.016
could no longer travel that far.

00:37:02.196 --> 00:37:03.756
And I said, well, how, and did that,

00:37:03.756 --> 00:37:06.456
Rupert Isaacson: by the way, did that
PATH instructor like what you were doing?

00:37:06.606 --> 00:37:08.586
'cause path can sometimes be a little bit.

00:37:10.146 --> 00:37:12.996
Celisse Barrett: I don't think she
really, because at the time I had just

00:37:12.996 --> 00:37:17.796
done the demonstration, I hadn't really
do dove into therapeutic writing.

00:37:17.856 --> 00:37:18.066
Yeah.

00:37:18.316 --> 00:37:21.256
Or trained to do anything with
equine therapy at that time.

00:37:21.736 --> 00:37:27.196
And I don't, she really didn't
have an opinion either way of it.

00:37:27.196 --> 00:37:27.286
Right.

00:37:27.286 --> 00:37:29.176
She was just there to put the kids.

00:37:29.446 --> 00:37:29.716
Rupert Isaacson: Right.

00:37:29.716 --> 00:37:31.666
Because you weren you weren't
coming into her world as far

00:37:31.666 --> 00:37:32.596
as she was concerned, right?

00:37:32.601 --> 00:37:32.721
Correct.

00:37:32.726 --> 00:37:33.166
Celisse Barrett: Correct.

00:37:33.166 --> 00:37:34.201
I wasn't, I wasn't, yes, yes.

00:37:34.221 --> 00:37:34.816
But she wasn't like,

00:37:34.996 --> 00:37:36.826
Rupert Isaacson: wow, we
should do this with the kids.

00:37:36.886 --> 00:37:41.356
Like she must once she saw, or was
she, I mean, once she saw the kids

00:37:41.536 --> 00:37:45.016
throwing their hands in the air and
say, Hey Miss Ali, I have a trick too.

00:37:45.286 --> 00:37:48.346
Was she sort of inspired by that and
coming to you saying, Hey, we should

00:37:48.346 --> 00:37:50.626
do something like this here, or

00:37:50.656 --> 00:37:50.986
Celisse Barrett: no?

00:37:51.121 --> 00:37:53.896
I, I think it was more or
less a Oh, that's really cute.

00:37:54.646 --> 00:37:55.066
Rupert Isaacson: Yeah.

00:37:55.126 --> 00:37:56.326
Celisse Barrett: And
that's where it was left.

00:37:56.596 --> 00:37:57.016
Rupert Isaacson: Yeah.

00:37:57.406 --> 00:37:59.836
Celisse Barrett: And so, well, the
next year I called the camp, I called

00:37:59.836 --> 00:38:02.356
the director and I said, Hey, do you
want me to come back and trick ride?

00:38:02.356 --> 00:38:03.946
She said, well, we're moving locations.

00:38:04.306 --> 00:38:07.456
We're not gonna have a horse program
this year because the woman running

00:38:07.456 --> 00:38:10.216
it can't come down to run the program.

00:38:10.726 --> 00:38:14.566
And I said, well, what do you
mean you can't have, like,

00:38:14.566 --> 00:38:15.496
you're not having horses.

00:38:15.496 --> 00:38:17.356
Like they come to camp for horses.

00:38:17.476 --> 00:38:20.596
That is their, the one time of
year they actually get on a horse

00:38:22.006 --> 00:38:23.866
that's, they come to camp for that.

00:38:23.866 --> 00:38:24.796
You have to have horses.

00:38:24.796 --> 00:38:27.586
She's like, well, we don't have anyone
that we trust that can run the program.

00:38:28.396 --> 00:38:30.796
And I said, well, what does
it take to run the program?

00:38:32.206 --> 00:38:34.036
I mean, I've got horses that are great.

00:38:34.096 --> 00:38:34.606
I mean, they're.

00:38:35.326 --> 00:38:38.026
Circus horses, what, what can I do?

00:38:38.416 --> 00:38:42.666
And and she said, well, you would
use your professional horses.

00:38:42.756 --> 00:38:45.486
And I said, well, what
other horses would I use?

00:38:45.486 --> 00:38:47.226
I, they're the ones I trust the most.

00:38:47.376 --> 00:38:47.466
Mm-hmm.

00:38:47.616 --> 00:38:49.236
Of course I would use
my professional horses.

00:38:50.196 --> 00:38:56.676
And I had only had two horses at the
time, and I said, but I can train

00:38:56.676 --> 00:38:59.766
some other horses if you have any
horses that, or know of any of them.

00:39:00.126 --> 00:39:03.546
And the director happened to own a
couple horses and she said, well, let's,

00:39:03.666 --> 00:39:05.376
if you want to try it, let's try it.

00:39:05.376 --> 00:39:07.986
I'll help you get started.

00:39:08.056 --> 00:39:12.286
And I had other couple other people that
had helped with the horse program at the

00:39:12.436 --> 00:39:17.406
old camp and and she said, I'll hook you
up with these people and let's see what

00:39:17.406 --> 00:39:23.076
we can do and if you like it, then I'll
pay to go get you certified through path.

00:39:23.586 --> 00:39:23.976
Rupert Isaacson: Okay.

00:39:24.066 --> 00:39:28.086
Celisse Barrett: And I did it the first
year and of course I put on another

00:39:28.086 --> 00:39:29.676
little trick riding show for the kids.

00:39:30.486 --> 00:39:36.036
And we did that opening day and I
just started using the little things

00:39:36.036 --> 00:39:41.286
that I had learned at Dixie and a
couple of little circuses and shows

00:39:41.286 --> 00:39:45.906
that I worked for at the time, and
incorporated those skills on a very

00:39:45.906 --> 00:39:47.886
basic level into the therapy program.

00:39:48.646 --> 00:39:52.756
One because I didn't really
want my horses to be.

00:39:55.921 --> 00:39:58.351
They weren't really
lesson horses at the time.

00:39:58.436 --> 00:39:58.856
Mm-hmm.

00:39:58.861 --> 00:40:02.281
They were still my professional horses,
so I didn't want the kids to be up there

00:40:02.281 --> 00:40:04.466
and pulling on their mouths and mm-hmm.

00:40:04.471 --> 00:40:05.581
And hurting 'em.

00:40:05.581 --> 00:40:09.901
And I mean, it was completely out of
their territory, but I knew the horses

00:40:09.901 --> 00:40:13.231
were bombproof 'cause what they had been
ex what my horses had been exposed to

00:40:13.381 --> 00:40:13.681
Rupert Isaacson: mm-hmm.

00:40:14.251 --> 00:40:15.421
Celisse Barrett: Through my career.

00:40:15.961 --> 00:40:17.091
And so

00:40:20.181 --> 00:40:25.311
we did that for a year and then I was
like, look, I'll, I'll, I'll take it over.

00:40:25.311 --> 00:40:27.261
I wasn't actively performing at the time.

00:40:27.661 --> 00:40:31.111
I was still training for trick writing,
but I was doing little gigs here and

00:40:31.111 --> 00:40:32.671
there with, you know, a circus group

00:40:33.661 --> 00:40:33.751
Rupert Isaacson: Hmm.

00:40:33.751 --> 00:40:34.651
Celisse Barrett: Once or twice a year.

00:40:35.041 --> 00:40:37.411
And outside of that, I was
still looking for work.

00:40:37.411 --> 00:40:40.751
I was working at a pet store
down the road just trying to earn

00:40:40.751 --> 00:40:42.551
money and put food on the table.

00:40:42.611 --> 00:40:46.741
And Jason was working as a massage
therapist at the at a big spa

00:40:46.741 --> 00:40:47.971
downtown, at the Battle House.

00:40:48.481 --> 00:40:51.481
So we hadn't really
opened a huge program yet.

00:40:52.471 --> 00:40:52.981
And

00:40:53.031 --> 00:40:56.031
we were offered a place in West Mobile.

00:40:57.001 --> 00:41:02.971
A family had, a woman had moved
out of her house and the landowners

00:41:02.971 --> 00:41:05.191
were looking for somebody to kind
of take care of the property.

00:41:05.491 --> 00:41:09.331
And it happened to be a s there happened
to be a seven stall barn and seven acres.

00:41:10.171 --> 00:41:13.621
And they said, if you wanna move
your horses here and start a

00:41:13.621 --> 00:41:17.341
therapeutic riding program in mobile,
we'd love for you to do it here.

00:41:18.601 --> 00:41:22.531
And it was just like the golden
ticket I had driven by this property.

00:41:22.531 --> 00:41:24.091
I don't know how many hundreds of times.

00:41:24.811 --> 00:41:29.191
And the opportunity to leave
was, or to leave where I was,

00:41:29.191 --> 00:41:30.811
was, it was just perfect timing.

00:41:30.921 --> 00:41:35.571
And you know, when it says when the stars
align or when things just line up without

00:41:35.571 --> 00:41:36.951
question and you just, I don't know.

00:41:36.951 --> 00:41:38.481
I felt like I just had
to kind of run with it.

00:41:38.481 --> 00:41:41.841
How random was it that this person needed
somebody to watch their house live on the

00:41:41.841 --> 00:41:45.021
property and I could use it as my own?

00:41:45.501 --> 00:41:45.831
Rupert Isaacson: Mm.

00:41:46.076 --> 00:41:50.121
Celisse Barrett: And I knew there
was a need for therapy in town.

00:41:50.181 --> 00:41:53.691
I was the first path
instructor in Mobile, Alabama.

00:41:54.951 --> 00:41:55.431
Rupert Isaacson: Okay.

00:41:55.881 --> 00:41:59.181
But you don't normally meet path
instructors that are trick riders.

00:41:59.511 --> 00:42:00.951
You must be no one of a kind.

00:42:01.911 --> 00:42:05.351
Celisse Barrett: I definitely I actually,
when we did our path training, I stopped

00:42:05.351 --> 00:42:09.341
telling people what I did because I didn't
wanna talk about trick writing anymore.

00:42:09.341 --> 00:42:11.561
I was just, I, I don't know.

00:42:11.561 --> 00:42:13.301
I just, what was their reaction?

00:42:13.301 --> 00:42:14.621
Rupert Isaacson: The average path person?

00:42:15.667 --> 00:42:18.507
If you're in the equine assisted
field, or if you're considering

00:42:18.507 --> 00:42:22.427
a career in the equine assisted
field, you might want to consider

00:42:22.497 --> 00:42:26.766
taking one of our three neuroscience
backed equine assisted programs.

00:42:26.827 --> 00:42:32.407
Horseboy method, now established
for 20 years, is the original

00:42:33.002 --> 00:42:39.312
Equine assisted program specifically
designed for autism, mentored by and

00:42:39.312 --> 00:42:41.981
developed in conjunction with Dr.

00:42:41.981 --> 00:42:44.862
Temple Grandin and many
other neuroscientists.

00:42:45.202 --> 00:42:48.471
We work in the saddle
with younger children.

00:42:48.967 --> 00:42:53.917
Helping them create oxytocin in their
bodies and neuroplasticity in the brain.

00:42:54.577 --> 00:42:56.017
It works incredibly well.

00:42:56.017 --> 00:42:57.737
It's now in about 40 countries.

00:42:58.447 --> 00:42:59.197
Check it out.

00:42:59.877 --> 00:43:04.027
If you're working without horses,
you might want to look at movement

00:43:04.037 --> 00:43:07.407
method, which gets a very, very
similar effect, but can also be

00:43:07.407 --> 00:43:09.157
applied in schools, in homes.

00:43:09.357 --> 00:43:14.347
If you're working with families, you can
give them really tangible exercises to do

00:43:14.347 --> 00:43:15.887
at home that will create neuroplasticity.

00:43:17.242 --> 00:43:18.522
when they're not with you.

00:43:19.032 --> 00:43:22.472
Finally, we have taquine
equine integration.

00:43:22.832 --> 00:43:25.452
If you know anything about our
programs, you know that we need a

00:43:25.452 --> 00:43:29.452
really high standard of horsemanship
in order to create the oxytocin

00:43:29.482 --> 00:43:33.771
in the body of the person that
we're working with, child or adult.

00:43:34.212 --> 00:43:37.552
So, this means we need to train
a horse in collection, but this

00:43:37.572 --> 00:43:41.812
also has a really beneficial
effect on the horse's well being.

00:43:42.012 --> 00:43:46.301
And it also ends your time conflict,
where you're wondering, oh my gosh, how

00:43:46.302 --> 00:43:49.602
am I going to condition my horses and
maintain them and give them what they

00:43:49.602 --> 00:43:52.697
need, as well as Serving my clients.

00:43:52.937 --> 00:43:57.437
Takine equine integration aimed
at a more adult client base

00:43:57.767 --> 00:43:59.417
absolutely gives you this.

00:43:59.527 --> 00:44:01.282
Celisse Barrett: It,
it was more or less how

00:44:06.592 --> 00:44:11.242
I felt, I feel like, so for
the traditional path person,

00:44:11.722 --> 00:44:15.472
I feel like it was, oh.

00:44:15.997 --> 00:44:17.047
You're one of those,

00:44:19.207 --> 00:44:21.397
I'm like, one of what,
what does that mean?

00:44:21.847 --> 00:44:26.887
And I understand why, because if you
only have seen rodeo trick riding and

00:44:26.887 --> 00:44:33.217
you don't know what you're watching,
yes, it looks absolutely crazy and mad.

00:44:33.697 --> 00:44:35.827
And it looks like absolute chaos.

00:44:35.827 --> 00:44:39.577
But as you know, as well as I do
that, it is completely not like

00:44:39.577 --> 00:44:41.377
that when it comes to trick writing.

00:44:41.647 --> 00:44:41.767
Rupert Isaacson: Yeah.

00:44:41.827 --> 00:44:41.917
And

00:44:41.917 --> 00:44:45.727
Celisse Barrett: I also had the chance
for a while to work as a cosac writer with

00:44:45.727 --> 00:44:48.247
a circus family for a show called Cir.

00:44:48.337 --> 00:44:51.427
Well, it's now called Cir
Maceo, owned by Alicia Oppe.

00:44:51.517 --> 00:44:57.397
And Cosac Riding is really where I found

00:44:59.737 --> 00:45:01.567
how important it was for

00:45:04.417 --> 00:45:05.107
Rhythm.

00:45:05.977 --> 00:45:08.017
It's where I learned rhythm
and cadence with the horse.

00:45:08.017 --> 00:45:10.897
Because for trick riding, you're
in a open field and you're

00:45:10.897 --> 00:45:12.097
running from point A to point B.

00:45:12.097 --> 00:45:16.567
When you're in the circus ring, you're
running in a circle and you can constantly

00:45:16.777 --> 00:45:19.207
keep your flow going in the circle.

00:45:19.897 --> 00:45:24.607
And it's almost like you can,
it's a difference be, it's almost

00:45:24.607 --> 00:45:27.607
like you can feel like you can
break dance on the horse versus.

00:45:28.112 --> 00:45:30.332
Just throwing a trick out and
holding it for a second and then

00:45:30.332 --> 00:45:31.472
coming back up and being done.

00:45:31.472 --> 00:45:34.082
You can keep it, you can keep all
the movements going and flowing.

00:45:34.082 --> 00:45:36.962
And I, that's a show that you came
and saw was in our circus ring.

00:45:36.962 --> 00:45:37.712
The cossack ring.

00:45:38.462 --> 00:45:38.847
And so

00:45:39.077 --> 00:45:41.672
Rupert Isaacson: does cosac, is
cossack riding defined by the ring?

00:45:42.912 --> 00:45:43.362
Celisse Barrett: Yes.

00:45:43.392 --> 00:45:43.422
Okay.

00:45:44.742 --> 00:45:45.012
Yes.

00:45:45.012 --> 00:45:48.892
And I think also in Europe too, I
mean, a lot of them are cosac riders.

00:45:48.927 --> 00:45:49.347
Mm-hmm.

00:45:49.407 --> 00:45:50.802
Most of them train in the circle.

00:45:51.102 --> 00:45:51.342
Rupert Isaacson: Mm-hmm.

00:45:51.402 --> 00:45:53.762
Celisse Barrett: But you can do
it outside of the ring, but yeah,

00:45:53.762 --> 00:45:57.812
mostly it's in America, it's trick
riding if you're in the rodeo arena

00:45:57.812 --> 00:45:59.522
and cosac, if you're in the circus.

00:45:59.972 --> 00:46:00.152
Rupert Isaacson: Got it.

00:46:00.782 --> 00:46:03.062
Celisse Barrett: Although the tricks
are the same for the most part.

00:46:03.062 --> 00:46:07.112
Saddles are a little different, but
it all the same for the most part.

00:46:07.592 --> 00:46:09.842
But in the ring you have
more control of the horse.

00:46:09.842 --> 00:46:09.902
Yeah.

00:46:10.512 --> 00:46:13.272
You can counter along, you can run
alongside of the horse no matter how fast

00:46:13.272 --> 00:46:17.232
they're going there, there is more of
a rhythm and a more of a balance to it

00:46:17.232 --> 00:46:18.732
than there is just in a big open field.

00:46:18.732 --> 00:46:22.592
The horses require a little
more collection and a little

00:46:22.592 --> 00:46:25.442
more training, I think, than
the typical trick riding horse.

00:46:25.622 --> 00:46:28.022
Rupert Isaacson: I would say
that's, that I have found, observed.

00:46:28.022 --> 00:46:28.472
Yes.

00:46:28.922 --> 00:46:29.312
Celisse Barrett: Yes.

00:46:29.702 --> 00:46:32.582
Rupert Isaacson: So, but you find
yourself among all the path people and

00:46:33.032 --> 00:46:34.262
you're like, well, this is what I do.

00:46:35.522 --> 00:46:40.227
And, and did you have some
skepticism about, or I did.

00:46:40.227 --> 00:46:42.847
Did they just assume that you were
gonna not do that with your therapy?

00:46:43.977 --> 00:46:46.257
Celisse Barrett: I think they assumed
that I wasn't going to do that with

00:46:46.257 --> 00:46:50.187
my therapy, although they I actually
did put the students and one of

00:46:50.187 --> 00:46:53.667
the instructors through one of my
clinics at Path while I was there.

00:46:53.667 --> 00:46:54.262
Did you?

00:46:54.267 --> 00:46:55.227
Which was a lot of fun.

00:46:55.277 --> 00:46:59.157
One of the ladies I taught
her a cool trick and she was

00:46:59.157 --> 00:47:01.737
worried that she couldn't do it
because she had rods in her back.

00:47:02.217 --> 00:47:02.247
Rupert Isaacson: Uhhuh.

00:47:02.342 --> 00:47:02.697
She was actually

00:47:02.697 --> 00:47:05.977
Celisse Barrett: one of the, she was one
of my peers at the time her name was Ann.

00:47:05.977 --> 00:47:08.167
And I was like, I'm pretty
sure you can do this move.

00:47:08.197 --> 00:47:09.877
Like, you're, you're gonna be good.

00:47:10.177 --> 00:47:12.257
And sure enough she did it first try.

00:47:12.377 --> 00:47:16.397
And she was the oldest one
out of the students and and

00:47:16.397 --> 00:47:17.627
put everyone else to shame.

00:47:18.137 --> 00:47:19.277
And so that was really cool.

00:47:19.277 --> 00:47:21.797
'cause she got, she was super
confident after she was able

00:47:21.797 --> 00:47:22.937
to do this little maneuver.

00:47:22.937 --> 00:47:24.287
It was all outta standstill of course.

00:47:24.287 --> 00:47:25.307
And we kept it very safe.

00:47:25.367 --> 00:47:32.627
But yeah, I knew once I set foot in path
territory that my, what I was doing with

00:47:32.627 --> 00:47:35.237
my kids was going to be questioned a lot.

00:47:35.237 --> 00:47:35.297
Yeah.

00:47:35.327 --> 00:47:38.387
Because everything was
about saddles, helmets.

00:47:38.837 --> 00:47:41.687
Safety, safety, safety, safety.

00:47:41.717 --> 00:47:49.397
And yes, obviously you want to be safe
and no, you don't wanna get anybody hurt.

00:47:49.397 --> 00:47:49.457
Yeah.

00:47:49.967 --> 00:47:54.527
But when they just don't know that world
that you come from, they don't realize

00:47:54.527 --> 00:47:57.167
how many times I've practiced on a barrel.

00:47:57.782 --> 00:48:01.742
A stationary barrel before I ever
put that stunt on a horse, or

00:48:01.742 --> 00:48:04.832
how many pull-ups that I've done
before I ever tried to vault.

00:48:05.372 --> 00:48:05.492
Mm-hmm.

00:48:06.002 --> 00:48:08.792
I mean, there's so much behind the
scenes that people don't realize that

00:48:08.792 --> 00:48:10.112
happens when you're a true rider.

00:48:10.112 --> 00:48:10.172
Yeah.

00:48:10.172 --> 00:48:10.532
An insane

00:48:10.532 --> 00:48:13.382
Rupert Isaacson: amount of preparation
that goes into training the horses to be

00:48:13.442 --> 00:48:13.712
Celisse Barrett: Oh,

00:48:15.002 --> 00:48:15.662
Rupert Isaacson: absolutely.

00:48:15.722 --> 00:48:16.472
Reliable.

00:48:17.132 --> 00:48:17.792
Celisse Barrett: Absolutely.

00:48:17.792 --> 00:48:20.702
Rupert Isaacson: Probably more,
much more reliable and certainly

00:48:20.702 --> 00:48:25.922
fitter and more supple and happier
and more fulfilled than your average

00:48:25.952 --> 00:48:27.572
therapy horse in a therapy program.

00:48:27.572 --> 00:48:27.902
Yeah.

00:48:28.622 --> 00:48:29.822
Celisse Barrett: Yes, absolutely.

00:48:29.942 --> 00:48:33.182
And that was one thing that was really
interesting that I did find in this,

00:48:33.242 --> 00:48:36.932
along in this journey, was when I
was using horses for the program.

00:48:37.412 --> 00:48:42.212
'cause I, I went to path, did
my certification, and I was

00:48:42.212 --> 00:48:43.532
already teaching at the time.

00:48:43.592 --> 00:48:45.242
They didn't know exactly
what I was teaching.

00:48:45.242 --> 00:48:48.092
And I was so nervous at the time
to tell anybody, because I'm new

00:48:48.092 --> 00:48:50.372
to this therapeutic riding role.

00:48:50.372 --> 00:48:54.932
I didn't wanna lose my credentials
over something that I knew the

00:48:54.932 --> 00:48:56.342
kids, I mean, the kids loved it.

00:48:56.342 --> 00:48:58.892
They loved learning how to turn
around backwards on the horse.

00:48:59.342 --> 00:48:59.432
Rupert Isaacson: Mm-hmm.

00:48:59.432 --> 00:49:01.502
Celisse Barrett: Of course, we had,
we had someone leading the horse.

00:49:01.502 --> 00:49:02.522
We had two sidewalks.

00:49:03.452 --> 00:49:06.182
I mean, there was no chance this
kid was coming off the horse.

00:49:06.182 --> 00:49:07.922
And I knew how good my horses were.

00:49:08.222 --> 00:49:12.872
So unless a bomb went off, there
was nothing that was gonna happen.

00:49:13.922 --> 00:49:16.082
And but I was just
terrified to tell anybody.

00:49:16.082 --> 00:49:20.072
'cause as soon as I would open that door,
it was instantly just slammed in my face.

00:49:20.072 --> 00:49:20.582
I remember

00:49:20.642 --> 00:49:21.302
Rupert Isaacson: Absolutely.

00:49:21.302 --> 00:49:24.722
Now, the ju the negativity and
the judgments unfortunately

00:49:25.472 --> 00:49:26.942
with Path have been.

00:49:27.512 --> 00:49:32.832
Quite shocking to me actually through
the last 20 years of Horse Boy Method.

00:49:33.412 --> 00:49:35.662
And the limitations oh yeah.

00:49:35.847 --> 00:49:42.867
And the lack of preparation of horses
and really the lack, you know, and

00:49:42.867 --> 00:49:50.247
the knee jerk responses to condemn
anything new that comes in while sort of

00:49:50.247 --> 00:49:52.047
assuming that they're the gold standard.

00:49:52.047 --> 00:49:55.107
And you look at them from the
outside as a horse person, they're

00:49:55.107 --> 00:49:56.847
like a proper pro horse person.

00:49:56.847 --> 00:50:00.297
You're like, Hmm, sorry,
but that's not very good.

00:50:00.357 --> 00:50:00.807
You know?

00:50:00.807 --> 00:50:04.407
And your horses aren't happy and
they don't feel good, and if they

00:50:04.407 --> 00:50:07.827
don't have wellbeing, how can
they give wellbeing to a kid?

00:50:07.827 --> 00:50:12.147
So, you know, there are of course
many amazing path programs out there,

00:50:13.227 --> 00:50:17.877
but we definitely found that the
leadership of the organization was

00:50:20.967 --> 00:50:23.577
antipathetic really to healing.

00:50:24.927 --> 00:50:24.987
Celisse Barrett: Yeah.

00:50:24.987 --> 00:50:26.307
Because it, well, and you're
right, people can, the horses

00:50:26.307 --> 00:50:27.057
were miserable.

00:50:28.377 --> 00:50:29.187
Rupert Isaacson: Sorry, say that again.

00:50:29.187 --> 00:50:29.962
I coughed over you.

00:50:30.122 --> 00:50:30.242
I,

00:50:30.442 --> 00:50:31.167
Celisse Barrett: I, you're good.

00:50:31.167 --> 00:50:32.697
I said the horses were miserable.

00:50:32.847 --> 00:50:33.237
Rupert Isaacson: Yeah.

00:50:33.777 --> 00:50:35.787
Celisse Barrett: They had
35 horses in that program.

00:50:36.432 --> 00:50:39.642
At the time and you couldn't
take one horse up to that ramp

00:50:40.002 --> 00:50:41.202
before they would start biting.

00:50:41.562 --> 00:50:41.832
Rupert Isaacson: Yeah.

00:50:42.432 --> 00:50:44.082
Celisse Barrett: And I'm like,
these horses are not happy.

00:50:44.082 --> 00:50:44.742
These horses.

00:50:44.772 --> 00:50:47.292
Like, I don't, I loved it when
they wanted me to sidewalk.

00:50:47.292 --> 00:50:49.422
I didn't wanna be a leader of
any of those horses because I

00:50:49.422 --> 00:50:50.652
didn't want my arm shoot off.

00:50:51.102 --> 00:50:55.212
And I can't, I mean, not all path,
like, like you said, not all path

00:50:55.242 --> 00:50:57.402
instructors are bad by any means.

00:50:57.612 --> 00:51:02.782
But as soon as I would, I remember
we worked with one child who had very

00:51:02.782 --> 00:51:05.812
low tone, no head control whatsoever.

00:51:06.322 --> 00:51:08.152
And they put this big
helmet on this child.

00:51:08.152 --> 00:51:11.782
And I was like, well, why haven't
you used, have you thought

00:51:11.782 --> 00:51:13.132
about using wrestling helmets?

00:51:13.282 --> 00:51:14.662
Their foam, their lightweight?

00:51:14.752 --> 00:51:16.672
I use them all the time for the camp.

00:51:16.852 --> 00:51:16.942
Mm-hmm.

00:51:17.092 --> 00:51:20.872
I mean, 'cause the camp that I directed,
the pro the horse program that I

00:51:20.872 --> 00:51:25.732
directed at this camp, it was more
or less working with kids and adults.

00:51:25.732 --> 00:51:30.112
Not all of the kids and adults would make
the cut as a therapeutic riding candidate.

00:51:30.592 --> 00:51:34.072
A lot of it, a lot of them made
the cut as more like make a wish.

00:51:34.072 --> 00:51:37.222
Kids where you didn't know if
they were gonna be here next year.

00:51:37.672 --> 00:51:37.972
Rupert Isaacson: Right.

00:51:38.032 --> 00:51:41.602
Celisse Barrett: And their bodies
weren't gonna be able to hold

00:51:41.602 --> 00:51:42.892
up to a therapeutic program.

00:51:42.892 --> 00:51:45.742
But should they have the opportunity
to sit on the back of a horse?

00:51:46.462 --> 00:51:47.152
Absolutely.

00:51:47.152 --> 00:51:51.112
And who am I to sit there and say, if
the parents are saying yes, the directors

00:51:51.112 --> 00:51:55.372
are saying yes, the child is saying,
please, yes, let me sit on a horse.

00:51:57.022 --> 00:51:59.662
Well, if I can give that to
them, then why shouldn't I?

00:51:59.722 --> 00:52:01.132
Especially if this is gonna be their last.

00:52:01.132 --> 00:52:01.252
So you

00:52:01.252 --> 00:52:03.922
Rupert Isaacson: know how to prepare
a horse that's safe to do that job.

00:52:04.597 --> 00:52:05.857
And happy to do that job.

00:52:06.367 --> 00:52:06.577
Celisse Barrett: Yes.

00:52:07.027 --> 00:52:11.557
Rupert Isaacson: And I've seen your
horses and I, I know how supple and well

00:52:11.557 --> 00:52:16.747
muscled and mentally and emotionally
happy they are because of all the,

00:52:17.017 --> 00:52:21.097
you know, excellent training that
you guys do your, your whole team.

00:52:21.757 --> 00:52:24.937
So yeah, a horse like that is
going to be able to say yes.

00:52:25.507 --> 00:52:30.957
And it's, you know, I was upper in
Michigan earlier this year at a path

00:52:31.017 --> 00:52:34.077
center doing one, a training for
one of our programs called Renew.

00:52:34.317 --> 00:52:40.467
And they also were putting incredible
time and training into their horses.

00:52:40.467 --> 00:52:43.857
And suddenly it was, you know, I
walked into there and go, wow, I'm not

00:52:43.857 --> 00:52:47.607
used to seeing something, you know,
of this caliber where the horses are

00:52:47.607 --> 00:52:51.087
like fit and well and muscled and all
being lunged and all being worked and

00:52:51.087 --> 00:52:54.687
trail ridden and happy so that when
they come in with the kids and, you

00:52:54.687 --> 00:52:56.667
know, ridden in good dressage as well.

00:52:56.847 --> 00:52:58.527
So when they come in with
the kids, they're like, yeah,

00:52:58.527 --> 00:52:59.487
rock and roll, let's go.

00:52:59.487 --> 00:53:01.137
But in a soft, sweet way.

00:53:02.037 --> 00:53:02.337
Sure.

00:53:02.427 --> 00:53:05.127
But as you know, you know, so I,
you know, I thought, wow, that is

00:53:05.127 --> 00:53:06.627
a gold standard renew, by the way.

00:53:06.627 --> 00:53:08.247
I'm sh giving a shout out to renew.

00:53:08.587 --> 00:53:11.377
And Melissa who runs Renew
'cause they, they are amazing up

00:53:11.377 --> 00:53:12.257
there in Grand Rapids mission.

00:53:12.257 --> 00:53:12.577
I was just

00:53:12.577 --> 00:53:13.227
Celisse Barrett: gonna ask you who was it?

00:53:13.352 --> 00:53:14.232
'cause I, I was curious.

00:53:14.232 --> 00:53:14.677
Yeah, it's

00:53:14.777 --> 00:53:15.857
Rupert Isaacson: I'll connect you.

00:53:15.927 --> 00:53:19.472
But yeah, renew is the
program, grand Rapids Michigan.

00:53:19.892 --> 00:53:22.562
And yeah, Melissa, who runs it,
I'll, I'll put you in contact

00:53:22.592 --> 00:53:25.592
'cause it's, it's, it's top notch.

00:53:26.012 --> 00:53:29.582
But these of course are people
who are also very, very educated

00:53:29.582 --> 00:53:31.862
horse people and very open to

00:53:34.562 --> 00:53:40.082
whatever field of excellence they
can find to bring into their thing.

00:53:40.257 --> 00:53:44.972
I, I can absolutely imagine how
people must have looked at you

00:53:45.392 --> 00:53:47.507
way back then and you Oh yeah.

00:53:47.507 --> 00:53:48.092
Would've felt, yeah.

00:53:48.097 --> 00:53:49.892
I just can't tell 'em, I just
can't tell 'em what I'm doing.

00:53:50.702 --> 00:53:53.552
Celisse Barrett: I couldn't, I had to,
I mean, I had to lie and I felt so bad

00:53:53.552 --> 00:53:57.002
because I wanted to be honest and I
wanted to share the work, but every time

00:53:57.002 --> 00:53:59.912
I did a door was slammed in my face.

00:53:59.972 --> 00:54:03.572
And that's actually what
led me to finding you.

00:54:03.992 --> 00:54:04.142
Yeah.

00:54:04.222 --> 00:54:12.712
Back in, I think we talked in 2017 or 2018
originally, and when you called me back

00:54:12.742 --> 00:54:17.662
over the phone, I remember recognizing
your voice from the documentary and

00:54:17.662 --> 00:54:22.612
I'm like, oh my gosh, I know this voice
and you left a message and I could not

00:54:22.612 --> 00:54:24.712
believe you actually called me back.

00:54:25.612 --> 00:54:30.202
I was floored that you were gonna
even give me the time of day because

00:54:30.532 --> 00:54:34.732
for so long, I mean, it was just
one slam after another and I'm just

00:54:34.732 --> 00:54:39.202
like, oh my gosh, is this, is anyone
gonna listen to what I have to say?

00:54:39.232 --> 00:54:40.447
Because that only word, can you describe

00:54:40.447 --> 00:54:41.447
Rupert Isaacson: some of those slams?

00:54:41.447 --> 00:54:43.942
Like, can you give us
a couple of situations?

00:54:44.822 --> 00:54:48.092
Celisse Barrett: So one was
the, like the wrestling helmet.

00:54:48.482 --> 00:54:53.192
That was one where I realized, okay,
what I'm doing is a little bit outside

00:54:53.192 --> 00:54:57.992
the box and I'm gonna have to be
very careful with how I present this.

00:54:58.302 --> 00:55:01.452
The lady had told me, I said,
well, have you tried a wrestling

00:55:01.452 --> 00:55:02.472
helmet on this student?

00:55:02.952 --> 00:55:04.272
The kid can't hold his head up.

00:55:04.362 --> 00:55:08.172
So you've got a two and a half
pound helmet on this child's head.

00:55:08.892 --> 00:55:11.682
Let's go to a wrestling helmet
that's half a pound or a quarter

00:55:11.682 --> 00:55:13.392
of a pound, like very lightweight.

00:55:13.992 --> 00:55:19.722
And the woman replied, well, it's
not gonna help the kid from, if

00:55:19.722 --> 00:55:21.312
the kid falls off and hit it head.

00:55:22.212 --> 00:55:24.162
It's not gonna stop the
kid from getting hurt.

00:55:24.282 --> 00:55:27.672
And I'm looking at the child
going, this child is so fragile.

00:55:27.672 --> 00:55:32.322
If this kid comes off the horse,
it's gonna get hurt no matter what.

00:55:32.922 --> 00:55:33.162
Hmm.

00:55:33.342 --> 00:55:37.332
So if your helmet's not gonna stop
the, I mean, if you're telling me

00:55:37.542 --> 00:55:40.632
that the wrestling helmet is not
gonna provide enough protection

00:55:40.632 --> 00:55:45.012
for the child in general, like this
kid has no head control, period.

00:55:45.402 --> 00:55:45.762
Rupert Isaacson: Well, right.

00:55:45.762 --> 00:55:48.762
And your, and your heavy helmet may
actually damage this child's neck.

00:55:49.377 --> 00:55:49.917
Celisse Barrett: Exactly.

00:55:49.917 --> 00:55:49.977
Yeah.

00:55:50.007 --> 00:55:52.557
Because with trick riding, we
don't, we don't pr I mean, I've

00:55:52.557 --> 00:55:54.477
been hurt trick riding with helmets.

00:55:54.657 --> 00:55:54.717
Yeah.

00:55:54.777 --> 00:55:56.457
Like, it, it hyperextends your neck.

00:55:56.487 --> 00:55:57.567
It can hurt your vertebrae.

00:55:57.567 --> 00:55:58.767
It can cause nerve damage.

00:55:59.067 --> 00:55:59.367
Yes.

00:55:59.367 --> 00:56:02.667
I believe helmets are a great thing for
certain things that you're doing, but

00:56:03.027 --> 00:56:06.987
for any type of gymnastic type sport,
you've got to have the flexibility

00:56:06.987 --> 00:56:08.697
in your vertebrae and in your body.

00:56:08.697 --> 00:56:11.367
And a helmet can actually cause damage.

00:56:11.757 --> 00:56:11.967
Yes.

00:56:11.967 --> 00:56:13.947
It keeps you from a traumatic
brain injury, but it doesn't

00:56:13.947 --> 00:56:14.997
keep you from breaking your neck.

00:56:15.057 --> 00:56:15.267
Rupert Isaacson: Yeah.

00:56:15.267 --> 00:56:17.757
It's very interesting that, for
example, the vaulters, you know,

00:56:17.757 --> 00:56:20.847
even at international level,
nobody makes them wear helmets.

00:56:20.847 --> 00:56:21.357
No one

00:56:21.837 --> 00:56:22.047
Celisse Barrett: no

00:56:22.257 --> 00:56:24.597
Rupert Isaacson: has anything bad to
say about them not wearing helmets.

00:56:24.597 --> 00:56:28.197
And they are standing up on horses,
you know, cantering around and

00:56:28.197 --> 00:56:33.057
jumping up and down on them, you
know, and somehow it's accepted.

00:56:33.177 --> 00:56:35.367
And of course it should be because
if they were wearing helmets they

00:56:35.367 --> 00:56:36.897
wouldn't, they'd injure themselves.

00:56:37.837 --> 00:56:40.627
But it's so interesting how
people separate, you know,

00:56:40.957 --> 00:56:43.327
what's acceptable and what's not.

00:56:43.627 --> 00:56:44.797
I'll tell you a funny story.

00:56:44.797 --> 00:56:50.367
When my wife IA and I went to do
our first trainings in Germany with

00:56:50.367 --> 00:56:56.017
Horse boy we were at the office of
the German Curatorium of Therapeutic

00:56:56.017 --> 00:57:00.127
Riding, which is not like Path
or RDA or Horse Boy or anything.

00:57:00.127 --> 00:57:02.077
It's not like some standalone nonprofit.

00:57:02.767 --> 00:57:06.617
It's a wing of government and it's
a wing of the health ministry.

00:57:07.427 --> 00:57:11.777
It's actually, you know, paid for
and all of that by government there.

00:57:12.227 --> 00:57:15.917
And because they were one of the first
early adopters of, of equine assisted

00:57:15.917 --> 00:57:18.257
staff, you know, way back in the fifties.

00:57:18.857 --> 00:57:21.577
And we were nervous.

00:57:21.797 --> 00:57:26.957
So we had put together, you know, a bunch
of pictures of us working with helmets.

00:57:27.227 --> 00:57:31.247
'cause we'd taken a lot of flack
even though we'd written our own

00:57:31.247 --> 00:57:34.307
insurance policies for when kids that
could not, and of course most of our

00:57:34.307 --> 00:57:37.877
kids did wear helmets, but the ones
that couldn't neurologically Right.

00:57:37.877 --> 00:57:40.487
We weren't going to traumatize
them by making them do that.

00:57:40.757 --> 00:57:40.847
Sure.

00:57:40.847 --> 00:57:45.797
Anyway, we're, we're sitting there
in the waiting room and we are

00:57:45.797 --> 00:57:49.727
going through all the official
literature and all the photographs.

00:57:50.057 --> 00:57:52.037
Not one kid wearing a helmet.

00:57:53.507 --> 00:57:58.457
We go into the, to have the interview
with the director and we are like,

00:57:58.487 --> 00:58:02.012
we've just been bricking ourselves
out there, you know, and Yeah.

00:58:02.152 --> 00:58:03.677
You know, what's the story?

00:58:03.677 --> 00:58:06.527
And they're like, oh, we went
through that 30 years ago.

00:58:06.737 --> 00:58:10.607
Yes, there are many, many kids for
whom wearing a helmet is deleterious.

00:58:10.667 --> 00:58:15.947
So, the, the whole point is prepare
your horse properly and yeah.

00:58:15.977 --> 00:58:21.227
Be prepared in your practice, and
then you're okay with this, but if

00:58:21.227 --> 00:58:22.697
you're not, then, then you're not.

00:58:22.817 --> 00:58:23.177
Yeah.

00:58:23.487 --> 00:58:23.697
Yeah.

00:58:23.757 --> 00:58:27.747
So, okay, so you, you, you ran into
that, what, what other, you know,

00:58:28.767 --> 00:58:30.237
'cause the standing up on the course I.

00:58:33.297 --> 00:58:38.067
Celisse Barrett: Oh, well, that I never
showed the videos of because I knew

00:58:38.127 --> 00:58:40.407
instantly I was gonna get flack for that.

00:58:40.707 --> 00:58:41.457
Rupert Isaacson: Mm-hmm.

00:58:41.508 --> 00:58:44.343
Celisse Barrett: Because how can
you ensure that the kid isn't gonna

00:58:44.343 --> 00:58:48.543
hurt themselves if they don't jump
off or, you know, whatever and

00:58:48.543 --> 00:58:53.343
Well, and at the time, path had just
changed their back riding rules.

00:58:53.883 --> 00:58:54.003
Yeah.

00:58:54.003 --> 00:58:58.353
So we did a lot of back
riding in our program.

00:58:58.353 --> 00:58:58.413
Yeah.

00:58:58.413 --> 00:58:59.283
I mean, we still do.

00:58:59.343 --> 00:59:02.013
We, we believe in it wholeheartedly
and we'll never change.

00:59:02.193 --> 00:59:04.833
I mean, you have to back ride with
some of these kids, and especially if

00:59:04.833 --> 00:59:07.113
you're teaching them a certain stunt
or you're teaching them a certain

00:59:07.113 --> 00:59:08.733
balance, you gotta be their safety.

00:59:09.363 --> 00:59:09.723
Absolutely.

00:59:09.723 --> 00:59:17.193
So, one of them was, I sent her
a video of Rock, my student who I

00:59:17.193 --> 00:59:22.023
based a lot of my program around
him because he was so untouchable

00:59:22.023 --> 00:59:27.063
for so many, but not for me and him.

00:59:27.303 --> 00:59:29.523
Like we had our thing and it was good.

00:59:29.973 --> 00:59:34.883
And he was my inspiration to keep
pushing and keep going for kids that

00:59:34.883 --> 00:59:39.483
had, that were dealing with major sensory
issues and overstimulation problems.

00:59:39.543 --> 00:59:44.313
And so I sent a video of him into,
I guess kind of like my path mentor.

00:59:44.673 --> 00:59:48.273
And the first thing she commented on was
not about the video at all, but what was

00:59:48.273 --> 00:59:50.073
about my lunge line touching the floor.

00:59:51.603 --> 00:59:55.203
And I'm like, that's what you saw over.

00:59:55.503 --> 00:59:57.843
Like, he just did all
this really cool stuff.

00:59:58.413 --> 01:00:00.813
It was all like he had a
sidewalk the whole time.

01:00:00.813 --> 01:00:03.243
There's a safety person there
jogging alongside of the horse.

01:00:03.243 --> 01:00:05.553
He would step off the side of the
horse, he would touch the ground while

01:00:05.553 --> 01:00:09.153
the horse was moving at a trot in the
sacking, and then he'd get back up on

01:00:09.153 --> 01:00:11.553
the horse and get back to the saddle.

01:00:11.673 --> 01:00:15.753
And I mean, not talking, I mean,
we're talking about proprio reception

01:00:15.753 --> 01:00:18.933
and the vestibular system and all
of these great things that are

01:00:18.933 --> 01:00:20.673
happening inside Rocky's brain.

01:00:21.663 --> 01:00:24.843
And the only thing she had to
say was, that was good, but

01:00:24.843 --> 01:00:26.133
your lunge line's on the ground.

01:00:27.333 --> 01:00:28.113
And I'm like, it.

01:00:28.173 --> 01:00:28.443
Yeah.

01:00:28.443 --> 01:00:32.013
Because he was dismounting and taking
a bow and I waster turning the horse.

01:00:32.673 --> 01:00:33.213
Nevermind.

01:00:33.633 --> 01:00:38.763
And so I was just like, okay,
I don't know if I'm gonna get

01:00:38.763 --> 01:00:40.203
anywhere with any of these people.

01:00:40.543 --> 01:00:43.423
And I couldn't bring any of this up,
but I mean, I went to the regional

01:00:43.423 --> 01:00:50.992
conference at the little Red Barn and
I wanted to speak so badly, but I was

01:00:50.992 --> 01:00:55.582
just afraid to share anything because
any little bits and pieces I would share

01:00:56.212 --> 01:00:58.042
would just get immediately shot down.

01:00:58.042 --> 01:01:04.133
I mean, you would have people
reamed, like for putting a child

01:01:04.133 --> 01:01:05.242
on a horse without a helmet.

01:01:05.692 --> 01:01:06.022
Rupert Isaacson: Yeah.

01:01:06.198 --> 01:01:09.262
And it's interesting that the whole
back riding thing, you know, one things

01:01:09.262 --> 01:01:13.403
that struck me as so strange about
that is it's completely racist because

01:01:13.403 --> 01:01:19.073
what it's saying is they're writing off
the entire culture of Northern Asia.

01:01:20.287 --> 01:01:24.347
Which is big like including Mongolia
and Kazakhstan is, and you know,

01:01:24.497 --> 01:01:28.547
it's how all the kids grow up riding
to ev all pretty much all of the

01:01:28.547 --> 01:01:30.257
Americas west of the Mississippi.

01:01:30.677 --> 01:01:34.517
'cause that's how most of the kids grow
up in front of mom and dad in a west

01:01:34.787 --> 01:01:36.917
and all of Central and South America.

01:01:36.917 --> 01:01:45.677
So you're gonna, and you're just going
to blanket from some White East coast

01:01:46.307 --> 01:01:52.667
hunty idea of what equitation is because
of course there are many equitation

01:01:54.017 --> 01:01:57.497
that it never occurred to anyone that
this was actually incredibly racist.

01:01:57.557 --> 01:01:57.977
You know?

01:01:58.087 --> 01:02:03.307
The, the people, the, the, the
Mongolians or the Texans or the

01:02:03.787 --> 01:02:07.807
Chileans or the, you know, would just
be outraged by this because they said,

01:02:07.807 --> 01:02:09.607
you know, we get around on horseback.

01:02:09.787 --> 01:02:11.198
You guys do this as a hobby.

01:02:11.287 --> 01:02:13.328
We live on horseback.

01:02:13.332 --> 01:02:13.453
Yeah,

01:02:13.613 --> 01:02:13.772
Celisse Barrett: absolutely.

01:02:14.173 --> 01:02:14.332
Absolutely.

01:02:14.332 --> 01:02:14.738
We rely on

01:02:14.738 --> 01:02:15.067
Rupert Isaacson: horseback.

01:02:15.158 --> 01:02:19.147
We do not have cars, you know, and we
know horses and we know how to look

01:02:19.147 --> 01:02:20.977
after horses 'cause we rely on them.

01:02:21.218 --> 01:02:22.057
You do not.

01:02:22.147 --> 01:02:22.388
Yeah.

01:02:22.392 --> 01:02:23.587
You, you board them.

01:02:24.077 --> 01:02:29.028
How dare you, you know, suggest that
we, but what was interesting, I I, I

01:02:29.028 --> 01:02:33.908
remember once 2018, actually the same
year I think you came out, I was speaking

01:02:33.908 --> 01:02:36.037
in Denver at the university there.

01:02:36.067 --> 01:02:38.197
'cause they have that amazing program.

01:02:38.197 --> 01:02:42.098
The human animal,
connection institute there.

01:02:42.337 --> 01:02:42.638
Mm-hmm.

01:02:42.877 --> 01:02:44.888
On by Nina Fry, who's a visionary.

01:02:45.337 --> 01:02:51.788
And I was quite honest on stage
about how obstructive and even quite

01:02:51.788 --> 01:02:54.817
vicious path had been towards us
when we first appeared on the scene.

01:02:55.268 --> 01:02:58.627
And what I didn't realize and how
sad it had made me as an autism dad

01:02:58.988 --> 01:03:02.528
because it made me realize, oh, you,
you don't really want to help people

01:03:02.528 --> 01:03:06.308
like my son because, you know, if you
did, you'd be looking at everything.

01:03:07.247 --> 01:03:08.537
But no, you're, you're closing off.

01:03:08.717 --> 01:03:12.708
So what I didn't realize was
that all of the puff board

01:03:12.708 --> 01:03:13.728
were actually in the audience.

01:03:14.268 --> 01:03:17.497
And but Betsy, I dunno if you
remember Betsy, wonderful.

01:03:17.497 --> 01:03:22.357
Betsy Carl, who was running the horse boy
program at the time, happened to be a very

01:03:22.357 --> 01:03:27.187
senior path instructor and still working
one day a week at the Big Path place

01:03:27.218 --> 01:03:32.678
in, in Austin, which is actually where
we pioneered our program with veterans.

01:03:33.218 --> 01:03:38.118
And I said, so what happened is I got
an email saying we were in the audience,

01:03:38.118 --> 01:03:40.278
should we talk from the path people?

01:03:40.278 --> 01:03:41.778
Like, oh, this actually
could be quite good.

01:03:41.778 --> 01:03:43.638
So I, I said, yes, absolutely.

01:03:43.908 --> 01:03:46.937
So, but I asked Betsy to be on
the call too because she's a path

01:03:46.937 --> 01:03:51.128
instructor and, so first thing I got
was, well, we've never badmouthed you.

01:03:51.128 --> 01:03:52.478
And we, I was like, oh, come on.

01:03:52.478 --> 01:03:53.978
Why are we even having this conversation?

01:03:53.978 --> 01:03:57.038
You know, of course you have,
you know, but my question is why?

01:03:57.278 --> 01:03:58.628
Like, what's your beef?

01:03:59.138 --> 01:04:01.028
And they finally said, well,
we think you are dangerous.

01:04:01.418 --> 01:04:02.408
And I said, well, why?

01:04:02.468 --> 01:04:03.398
What's the danger?

01:04:03.428 --> 01:04:09.068
Like touch wood if in 15 back then
now 20 years or more of practice,

01:04:09.068 --> 01:04:10.298
we've never had an accident.

01:04:10.298 --> 01:04:15.188
So, and we are op you know, we operate
in 40 countries with scores of location,

01:04:15.188 --> 01:04:18.248
so what danger are you referring to?

01:04:18.878 --> 01:04:20.018
And they said, well, it's the back riding.

01:04:20.618 --> 01:04:23.828
And I said, well, okay, but we
haven't had any accidents with this.

01:04:23.918 --> 01:04:27.758
And then they said, well,
when we did it path we had it,

01:04:28.478 --> 01:04:29.498
and then the penny dropped.

01:04:29.828 --> 01:04:33.698
And I was like, well, of course you did,
because you don't prepare your horse's

01:04:33.698 --> 01:04:38.048
backs, you don't prepare your riders, you
don't prepare the horses in collection.

01:04:38.198 --> 01:04:39.218
You don't do any of that.

01:04:39.218 --> 01:04:43.568
So if you take, yeah, some horse with
a saw back that's just been donated

01:04:43.573 --> 01:04:49.798
and you plunk some big old, you know,
western saddle on you know, that sore

01:04:49.798 --> 01:04:53.767
back and then you put a person and a
half up there that's not gonna go well.

01:04:54.397 --> 01:05:00.097
So fortunately Betsy, who was the
you know, on the call, said, she

01:05:00.097 --> 01:05:03.277
actually came, she cut in and she
said, listen, I'm a senior path

01:05:03.277 --> 01:05:07.687
instructor and I've never seen horses
as well prepared as horse sport.

01:05:07.687 --> 01:05:09.337
And it's, for me, it's the gold standard.

01:05:09.877 --> 01:05:13.537
And so I said, listen, I, I get it.

01:05:13.537 --> 01:05:19.867
You guys shouldn't back ride, but
why are you condemning other people?

01:05:19.867 --> 01:05:21.847
Who do you know who, who do, who do it?

01:05:21.847 --> 01:05:25.417
Well, surely we should all
be collaborating through

01:05:25.417 --> 01:05:26.587
our different fields.

01:05:26.707 --> 01:05:28.987
Surely that is what we should be doing.

01:05:29.677 --> 01:05:35.597
So anyway yeah, it, it's been a
struggle and I can only imagine

01:05:35.597 --> 01:05:39.257
for you because you're taking it
way further than, than we are.

01:05:39.257 --> 01:05:42.827
And even the name of your program,
equestrian Chaos, it's going to,

01:05:42.977 --> 01:05:44.537
it's, it's, it's a great name.

01:05:44.567 --> 01:05:47.957
'cause it's a great show and of
course it's going to trigger them.

01:05:47.957 --> 01:05:49.547
However, I have seen your show.

01:05:50.222 --> 01:05:53.042
And I have seen you do the impossible.

01:05:53.042 --> 01:05:54.812
And of course it's anything but chaotic.

01:05:55.332 --> 01:05:57.792
It's of course precision work.

01:05:58.182 --> 01:06:04.452
Can you talk to me now about, okay,
so you realized that you had to,

01:06:04.512 --> 01:06:07.242
you know, just go do your own thing.

01:06:07.482 --> 01:06:11.652
How did you get insured and then
how did you grow the program?

01:06:13.492 --> 01:06:16.552
Celisse Barrett: We were
insured through esure.

01:06:17.062 --> 01:06:23.332
And I will say that there were things that
I, and I hate to say this now, but there

01:06:23.332 --> 01:06:28.582
were things I absolutely could not list on
my insurance that I was doing, especially

01:06:28.582 --> 01:06:32.032
here in the US because I knew that it
wasn't, they were gonna look at it and

01:06:32.032 --> 01:06:34.192
they were gonna go, what are you doing?

01:06:34.792 --> 01:06:35.962
Why are you doing this?

01:06:36.052 --> 01:06:39.892
And, you know, for something that, I
mean, yes, I was certified as a path

01:06:39.892 --> 01:06:45.892
instructor and I tried as best as I
could to meet all of those standards.

01:06:46.402 --> 01:06:50.002
And yes, I So you're insured through that
agree that Yes, and I was insured through,

01:06:50.422 --> 01:06:52.432
Rupert Isaacson: but you must have
had a bit of a white knuckle going on,

01:06:52.432 --> 01:06:56.272
like, shit, you know, if, if there were
something were to happen and it turns

01:06:56.272 --> 01:07:01.222
out that the kids doing a, a trick,
would I, would my insurance hold up?

01:07:02.212 --> 01:07:03.352
Celisse Barrett: Oh yeah, absolutely.

01:07:03.402 --> 01:07:07.152
I was nervous as hell all the
time, to be perfectly honest.

01:07:07.152 --> 01:07:07.182
Okay.

01:07:07.342 --> 01:07:13.042
But when I had parents coming up to me
saying, Hey, can you teach my kid this?

01:07:16.852 --> 01:07:19.102
There's one part of me that's going

01:07:19.202 --> 01:07:23.883
do I do this for the greater good or
do I do it for the insurance companies?

01:07:24.683 --> 01:07:28.523
And I always had to pick the greater good
because these parents were desperate.

01:07:29.002 --> 01:07:31.643
They wanted something that worked
and they were leaving other therapy

01:07:31.643 --> 01:07:33.353
centers because they weren't getting

01:07:34.162 --> 01:07:34.493
Rupert Isaacson: Yeah,

01:07:34.613 --> 01:07:35.423
Celisse Barrett: the same.

01:07:36.412 --> 01:07:37.223
Rupert Isaacson: You're so brave.

01:07:37.252 --> 01:07:38.513
What gave you the courage?

01:07:40.553 --> 01:07:43.042
Because you had, you had a
kid, you had a, a livelihood.

01:07:43.048 --> 01:07:44.497
You know, what gave you the courage?

01:07:44.518 --> 01:07:44.738
It,

01:07:44.837 --> 01:07:46.702
Celisse Barrett: you know, it
was one of those things where

01:07:46.702 --> 01:07:49.103
you just, I just had to trust,

01:07:51.502 --> 01:07:54.683
I don't know, whatever you wanna
call it, universe, God, however,

01:07:54.683 --> 01:07:57.923
that, you know, you're just, you
just gotta go with a gut feeling.

01:07:58.372 --> 01:07:59.452
And that's what I did.

01:07:59.573 --> 01:08:03.653
And yes, I always kept
it very, very controlled.

01:08:03.773 --> 01:08:08.513
We never pushed, we never
took risk with the kids, ever.

01:08:09.112 --> 01:08:12.532
Just because I didn't, you know,
one, I didn't want the red tape and

01:08:12.532 --> 01:08:15.012
I didn't want people breathing down
my neck and I didn't want us to be

01:08:15.012 --> 01:08:18.462
shut down because it was such a cool
thing that we were doing with them.

01:08:18.462 --> 01:08:20.742
And it was working, it
was working phenomenally.

01:08:21.382 --> 01:08:24.352
Which is partly, again, reason
why I contacted your program.

01:08:24.352 --> 01:08:27.982
I mean, I couldn't find anybody to give
me any continuing education hours or

01:08:27.982 --> 01:08:29.662
to tell me why it was working so well.

01:08:29.902 --> 01:08:29.992
Rupert Isaacson: Mm-hmm.

01:08:29.992 --> 01:08:30.052
I'm

01:08:30.052 --> 01:08:32.002
Celisse Barrett: like, I'm having
these kids up here who are.

01:08:33.382 --> 01:08:36.352
I mean, I mean, we're not
doing anything wild and insane.

01:08:36.352 --> 01:08:40.402
I mean, they're moving at a walk and
at a trot, very few are moving at

01:08:40.402 --> 01:08:44.662
a canner, doing tricks, but stand
still at a walk and at a trot.

01:08:44.662 --> 01:08:48.802
And they're getting this full physical
workout, not including the, all the

01:08:48.802 --> 01:08:52.587
benefits that come with what's happening
physically within their bodies.

01:08:53.452 --> 01:08:59.632
And, but I know when it's unchartered
territory, it's hard to get those,

01:08:59.632 --> 01:09:03.472
to get others to believe you in
what you're in the work that you're

01:09:03.472 --> 01:09:04.852
doing and that it is beneficial.

01:09:04.882 --> 01:09:04.942
Yeah.

01:09:05.002 --> 01:09:06.202
Well, where's the, where's the data?

01:09:06.622 --> 01:09:07.342
That's what everyone wants.

01:09:07.342 --> 01:09:08.002
Where's the data?

01:09:08.122 --> 01:09:10.402
Show me the, show me the
medical benefits of it.

01:09:10.402 --> 01:09:12.622
I'm like, I'm a, I'm a nobody out here.

01:09:12.622 --> 01:09:13.822
Like I'm seeing the results.

01:09:13.822 --> 01:09:17.152
I've got a waiting list of 40 people
that wanna come in on this program,

01:09:17.152 --> 01:09:19.462
but I, I can't take anyone else.

01:09:20.182 --> 01:09:23.062
I don't have the funds
to show you all the data.

01:09:23.062 --> 01:09:25.192
I mean, I can give you my
notes that I wrote every day

01:09:25.192 --> 01:09:27.172
after every after every lesson.

01:09:27.592 --> 01:09:30.982
But I mean, I tried to get doctors to
come out and look at what I was doing.

01:09:30.982 --> 01:09:33.772
I tried to get physical therapists to
come out to watch what I was doing.

01:09:34.302 --> 01:09:37.632
And at the time, I mean, again,
we're talking now 10, 15 years

01:09:37.632 --> 01:09:40.332
ago, people were still afraid.

01:09:40.332 --> 01:09:45.907
I mean, and that's right when all
that, that path stuff happened and I

01:09:48.072 --> 01:09:51.732
just kind hidden the shadows for
a while and I probably could have

01:09:51.732 --> 01:09:54.102
grown the program much bigger.

01:09:54.552 --> 01:09:57.192
But when you are hiding in the shadows.

01:09:57.642 --> 01:10:01.902
It's hard to speak your truth when
you don't know how it's going to

01:10:01.902 --> 01:10:03.252
be reciprocated from Well, it's not

01:10:03.252 --> 01:10:05.682
Rupert Isaacson: a good idea to speak
the truth when the Spanish Inquisition

01:10:05.682 --> 01:10:06.822
are the ones you're speaking to.

01:10:07.662 --> 01:10:08.262
Celisse Barrett: Exactly.

01:10:08.382 --> 01:10:09.497
And so they're gonna

01:10:09.497 --> 01:10:11.142
Rupert Isaacson: be, they're not
gonna do good things with that truth.

01:10:11.382 --> 01:10:11.772
Yeah.

01:10:12.312 --> 01:10:14.382
Celisse Barrett: No, and, and back
to the path thing for a second, like,

01:10:14.382 --> 01:10:17.742
and it, it did bother me when they
did banned back riding because what

01:10:17.742 --> 01:10:21.582
bothered me most was if you offered
hippotherapy, you could back ride.

01:10:23.442 --> 01:10:26.082
I'm like, oh, so if you can
only bill it under insurance,

01:10:26.112 --> 01:10:27.432
you can offer back riding.

01:10:27.882 --> 01:10:32.082
But a therapeutic riding instructor
can't back ride with their students.

01:10:32.772 --> 01:10:33.012
Rupert Isaacson: Just

01:10:33.012 --> 01:10:35.382
Celisse Barrett: because I'm not a
physical therapist or an occupational

01:10:35.382 --> 01:10:38.532
therapist or a speech language
pathologist, I can't back ride.

01:10:39.132 --> 01:10:40.692
And that really turned me sour.

01:10:40.692 --> 01:10:47.562
I'm like, so they have to be approved
by insurance and I have to be able

01:10:47.562 --> 01:10:50.442
to bill insurance to be able to
do these things with these kids.

01:10:50.442 --> 01:10:53.352
And it was just for me, I'm like,
since when did the insurance

01:10:53.352 --> 01:10:57.822
companies have to dictate what
can and can't be done or approved?

01:10:58.632 --> 01:11:00.942
And that always soured me.

01:11:00.942 --> 01:11:01.662
And I was like, you know what?

01:11:01.662 --> 01:11:02.862
I'm just gonna keep doing what I'm doing.

01:11:02.892 --> 01:11:04.242
The parents are asking for it.

01:11:04.822 --> 01:11:08.842
I can't tell them No, the benefits
are, I mean, you could see the

01:11:09.022 --> 01:11:10.132
benefits right then and there.

01:11:10.492 --> 01:11:13.372
I mean, and it was empowering
these kids in ways that I've

01:11:13.372 --> 01:11:14.962
never seen any other program do.

01:11:16.342 --> 01:11:18.382
Rupert Isaacson: Well, you have a,
because I think, I think what's so

01:11:18.382 --> 01:11:21.262
wonderful is it's not just this,
this is not just the thing you're

01:11:21.262 --> 01:11:25.132
doing, you know, in the ring, in the.

01:11:26.857 --> 01:11:31.777
Equine assisted sessions,
which is amazing enough.

01:11:32.317 --> 01:11:34.057
Oh, that's my ghost.

01:11:35.887 --> 01:11:40.947
But you are including them in the
show, and that's something which

01:11:40.947 --> 01:11:42.507
I wanna go into in a little while.

01:11:42.747 --> 01:11:46.707
But just before we get to your show, and,
you know, some of the stuff I've seen you,

01:11:46.767 --> 01:11:53.307
you, you do in there at what point did you
sort of become, if you like, legitimized?

01:11:53.547 --> 01:11:55.197
Did it shift at a certain point?

01:11:58.647 --> 01:12:00.447
Celisse Barrett: It probably shifted,

01:12:03.387 --> 01:12:13.167
I wanna say around 2015 1415 when

01:12:16.827 --> 01:12:19.317
there was, with no doubt in my mind

01:12:21.477 --> 01:12:22.857
this is what needed to happen.

01:12:23.407 --> 01:12:28.897
And it wasn't for, there's nothing
big that really set it off that

01:12:28.902 --> 01:12:34.777
just, I was just tired of hiding
from it all, to be perfectly honest.

01:12:34.837 --> 01:12:34.897
Yeah.

01:12:35.197 --> 01:12:37.357
And I'm like, someone's
gonna have something to say.

01:12:37.357 --> 01:12:39.787
If they put me on the chopping
block, then whatever, I'll just go

01:12:39.787 --> 01:12:41.407
on the chopping block and I guess.

01:12:41.767 --> 01:12:44.137
No, I mean, all press is good press.

01:12:44.137 --> 01:12:45.547
I don't, I don't know.

01:12:45.877 --> 01:12:46.297
But

01:12:48.487 --> 01:12:50.077
I was tired of being nervous about it.

01:12:50.737 --> 01:12:50.887
Rupert Isaacson: Yeah.

01:12:50.887 --> 01:12:51.097
I mean,

01:12:51.097 --> 01:12:52.927
Celisse Barrett: and just being
nervous on a daily basis is

01:12:52.927 --> 01:12:56.107
enough to send anyone spiraling.

01:12:56.387 --> 01:12:57.437
You know, emotionally.

01:12:57.467 --> 01:12:57.827
And

01:12:58.247 --> 01:12:58.457
Rupert Isaacson: yeah,

01:12:58.577 --> 01:12:59.867
Celisse Barrett: we knew
it needed to happen.

01:12:59.867 --> 01:13:02.627
We knew what we needed to build it.

01:13:02.627 --> 01:13:05.027
Just, if I couldn't get
anyone to listen, then fine.

01:13:05.057 --> 01:13:08.957
I'm just gonna do it on my own and
not worry about path, not worry about

01:13:08.957 --> 01:13:12.167
keeping my credentials, not worrying
about doing it by the book and making

01:13:12.167 --> 01:13:14.267
my own, just making our own thing.

01:13:15.377 --> 01:13:16.662
Rupert Isaacson: Did your
insurance status change?

01:13:16.802 --> 01:13:19.667
Did you, did you, did you
change it at a certain point?

01:13:20.537 --> 01:13:21.797
Celisse Barrett: No, I did not.

01:13:22.277 --> 01:13:22.607
Rupert Isaacson: Okay.

01:13:23.067 --> 01:13:25.077
Celisse Barrett: I went into it and
they all knew when they signed my

01:13:25.077 --> 01:13:27.807
release form, that trick writing
was not covered under my insurance.

01:13:27.807 --> 01:13:29.727
That, you know, this is at your own risk.

01:13:30.177 --> 01:13:30.267
Okay.

01:13:30.297 --> 01:13:34.377
And what was shocking to me was
that all the parents did not care.

01:13:35.187 --> 01:13:35.337
Rupert Isaacson: Okay.

01:13:35.517 --> 01:13:41.077
if you're a horse nerd, and if you're on
this podcast, I'm guessing you are, then

01:13:41.087 --> 01:13:46.077
you've probably also always wondered a
little bit about the old master system.

01:13:46.542 --> 01:13:47.852
of dressage training.

01:13:47.892 --> 01:13:56.462
If you go and check out our Helios Harmony
program, we outline there step by step

01:13:56.532 --> 01:14:02.812
exactly how to train your horse from
the ground to become the dressage horse

01:14:02.822 --> 01:14:09.342
of your dreams in a way that absolutely
serves the physical, mental and emotional

01:14:09.392 --> 01:14:12.162
well being of the horse and the rider.

01:14:12.222 --> 01:14:12.962
Intrigued?

01:14:13.162 --> 01:14:14.022
Like to know more?

01:14:14.892 --> 01:14:17.722
Go to our website, Helios Harmony.

01:14:19.422 --> 01:14:21.112
Check out the free introduction course.

01:14:21.672 --> 01:14:22.192
Take it from there.

01:14:22.696 --> 01:14:22.876
They

01:14:22.876 --> 01:14:24.946
Celisse Barrett: were like,
sign this up, we don't care.

01:14:25.516 --> 01:14:25.636
Okay.

01:14:25.636 --> 01:14:26.146
It's working.

01:14:26.506 --> 01:14:30.436
I'd have parents tell me we went to
Boston for treatment and the same

01:14:30.436 --> 01:14:33.526
benefits they would get in my backyard
were the same benefits that they kept

01:14:33.526 --> 01:14:36.376
flying to Boston and staying there for
two weeks and then coming back home.

01:14:36.976 --> 01:14:39.346
They're like, so why do we fly to
Boston if we can come just see you.

01:14:39.946 --> 01:14:40.396
Rupert Isaacson: Yeah.

01:14:40.901 --> 01:14:40.981
Absolute.

01:14:40.981 --> 01:14:41.806
And I'm, I'm like, wow.

01:14:42.346 --> 01:14:45.126
Celisse Barrett: That
was, that was big to hear.

01:14:45.666 --> 01:14:51.876
But also heavy at the same time because
I knew that, all right, this is.

01:14:52.461 --> 01:14:56.031
I gotta just keep fighting for what I
know we can do and what these kids need.

01:14:56.061 --> 01:14:58.911
I mean, it was great for the
horses, it was great for the kids.

01:14:59.121 --> 01:15:01.551
I mean, it was a win-win for
everybody all the way around.

01:15:01.551 --> 01:15:01.641
Mm-hmm.

01:15:02.091 --> 01:15:04.791
I mean, in the best horses for this
program were trick riding horses.

01:15:05.211 --> 01:15:05.601
Rupert Isaacson: Mm-hmm.

01:15:05.721 --> 01:15:06.471
No, I would agree.

01:15:07.521 --> 01:15:08.001
I would agree.

01:15:08.001 --> 01:15:11.901
Having seen your, having seen
your horses and your program, so

01:15:11.901 --> 01:15:14.841
talk us through your methodology.

01:15:16.431 --> 01:15:23.121
What tricks, what are your go-tos like,
I saw what you did with my son and he

01:15:23.121 --> 01:15:27.381
was standing by the end of it, you took
him through this very systematic step

01:15:27.381 --> 01:15:35.046
by step thing with the stationary horse
in the small Cossack arena and mm-hmm.

01:15:35.186 --> 01:15:40.011
By the end of that process, you
and Brooke had him standing on

01:15:40.011 --> 01:15:41.691
the horse and he came out of it.

01:15:41.931 --> 01:15:45.321
Do you remember how
ecstatic he was on that Yes.

01:15:45.831 --> 01:15:48.921
Visit with you And not just that,
but also all the stuff he was doing

01:15:48.921 --> 01:15:51.276
on the quad with Jason and mm-hmm.

01:15:51.381 --> 01:15:55.041
It's, for him it was
a, even that was 2019.

01:15:55.041 --> 01:15:57.921
It's one of the high point
memories that he has.

01:15:58.731 --> 01:16:04.311
So I watched you work in this
really systematic and Brooke way.

01:16:04.311 --> 01:16:07.011
Shout out to Brooke 'cause
she's incredible too.

01:16:07.581 --> 01:16:08.361
Your right hand.

01:16:08.891 --> 01:16:13.991
And also Marley, your daughter who's
in a league of her own talk us through.

01:16:16.136 --> 01:16:20.666
The step by step methodology of
equestrian chaos and what you do.

01:16:21.656 --> 01:16:29.366
Celisse Barrett: So I had to learn to
break it down literally from step one.

01:16:29.426 --> 01:16:30.536
If you want to,

01:16:34.946 --> 01:16:38.636
if you want to be able to, okay, let's
just use standing up, for example.

01:16:39.326 --> 01:16:42.386
Well, if you wanna be able to do
the hippodrome, you gotta be able to

01:16:42.386 --> 01:16:44.006
put your feet in the straps first.

01:16:44.336 --> 01:16:45.386
That's where it starts.

01:16:45.986 --> 01:16:46.766
And so

01:16:48.776 --> 01:16:51.086
that would be, for example,
that would be step one.

01:16:51.176 --> 01:16:54.596
Let's actually, no, that wouldn't
even be step one that, do you get

01:16:54.596 --> 01:16:56.096
your feet in the hippodrome straps?

01:16:56.246 --> 01:16:58.826
Well, we're gonna sit on the
croup of the horse for a second.

01:16:59.066 --> 01:17:02.666
We're just gonna go here and put our feet
in this position, if you can do that.

01:17:03.176 --> 01:17:03.746
Okay, good.

01:17:03.746 --> 01:17:04.766
You've got step one.

01:17:04.976 --> 01:17:06.206
Now let's go to step two.

01:17:06.356 --> 01:17:10.286
We're gonna slide back again in
this weird, uncomfortable area on

01:17:10.286 --> 01:17:13.046
the horse, and then we're gonna
put our feet in these straps.

01:17:14.126 --> 01:17:14.636
Excellent.

01:17:14.636 --> 01:17:15.326
You did that.

01:17:15.416 --> 01:17:15.956
Perfect.

01:17:15.986 --> 01:17:16.886
Let's take your feet out.

01:17:16.886 --> 01:17:18.476
Let's slide back to the saddle again.

01:17:18.896 --> 01:17:20.396
Now let's try step three.

01:17:20.996 --> 01:17:24.026
We're gonna slide back to the
horse, put our feet in the straps.

01:17:24.296 --> 01:17:27.986
Now we're going to sit back to
the saddle where you're in a

01:17:27.986 --> 01:17:29.606
more of a scrunched up position.

01:17:29.606 --> 01:17:33.146
It's a little more uncomfortable
if you're comfortable with that.

01:17:33.536 --> 01:17:34.226
Perfect.

01:17:34.766 --> 01:17:37.616
Now we're gonna go on to step
four, where you're gonna.

01:17:38.156 --> 01:17:41.696
Put your feet in the straps or slide
your feet back, put your feet up on the,

01:17:41.906 --> 01:17:44.156
into the straps slide back forward again.

01:17:44.396 --> 01:17:48.626
Then we're going to lift ourselves up
a little bit and hang onto the horn

01:17:48.626 --> 01:17:50.186
and hang onto the main of that horse.

01:17:50.546 --> 01:17:54.026
We're not gonna really stand up, we're
just gonna kind of crouch for a minute.

01:17:55.856 --> 01:17:57.026
Does that feel comfortable?

01:17:57.236 --> 01:17:57.776
Okay.

01:17:57.836 --> 01:17:59.906
If it's a yes, then we'll
continue from there.

01:17:59.906 --> 01:18:01.556
If it's a no, that's all we're gonna do.

01:18:02.006 --> 01:18:03.716
We're only gonna get to whatever.

01:18:03.776 --> 01:18:05.426
I mean, I'm talking, breaking it down.

01:18:05.516 --> 01:18:09.146
Every movement is a step
in this line of teaching.

01:18:09.686 --> 01:18:13.556
So rowan's sake, he, he did all of it.

01:18:13.586 --> 01:18:16.166
He got to the back of the horse,
got his feet in the straps.

01:18:16.406 --> 01:18:19.076
We will also provide security as well.

01:18:19.076 --> 01:18:20.966
We'll hold onto the ankle, into the shin.

01:18:21.876 --> 01:18:24.306
Just like you were, if you were
balancing on standing on somebody's

01:18:24.306 --> 01:18:26.616
shoulders, you're gonna give them
a little support on their shins.

01:18:26.856 --> 01:18:29.556
That way they can kind of
have a little more bracing

01:18:29.556 --> 01:18:30.636
and feel a little more stable.

01:18:31.056 --> 01:18:32.556
So that's what we did with Rowan.

01:18:33.126 --> 01:18:37.716
Now let's see if you can stand up higher,
because if you can crouch on the horse

01:18:38.736 --> 01:18:43.406
in that what kind of position, I guess
kind of a jockey type position, then

01:18:43.406 --> 01:18:46.256
you can absolutely stand all the way up.

01:18:46.646 --> 01:18:51.446
But mentally standing up is
a lot different than just

01:18:51.446 --> 01:18:52.916
crouching in your safety zone.

01:18:53.216 --> 01:18:53.576
So.

01:18:54.761 --> 01:18:55.511
That's what we did.

01:18:55.511 --> 01:18:58.121
Again, let's crouch and
let's see how that feels.

01:18:58.121 --> 01:18:59.291
Does that feel okay?

01:18:59.501 --> 01:19:02.831
Can you let go for a second
while crouching, you know?

01:19:02.831 --> 01:19:04.961
Now my first rule is always find the horn.

01:19:04.961 --> 01:19:07.781
So once they get into that position,
I'll have them let go for a second.

01:19:07.781 --> 01:19:11.441
Then I have them reach for the horn again,
and then I have them softly sit back down.

01:19:12.641 --> 01:19:15.311
And then all of a sudden, once they've
gone through all those little tiny

01:19:15.311 --> 01:19:18.611
steps, then the next one is, all
right, let's see if you can stand.

01:19:19.541 --> 01:19:22.181
And we're not gonna move, we're
just gonna keep the horse still.

01:19:22.241 --> 01:19:23.831
You're gonna stand, we're gonna count.

01:19:23.951 --> 01:19:25.991
We give, we give a count,
because that's a goal.

01:19:25.991 --> 01:19:29.561
If we can get to three, the person
is focused on hitting that number

01:19:29.561 --> 01:19:32.681
three and not so much, you know,
how long do I have to be up here?

01:19:32.741 --> 01:19:35.561
There's a clear focused
goal, number three.

01:19:35.981 --> 01:19:40.151
So we'll stand up 1, 2, 3, and then
we're gonna find that horn like we

01:19:40.151 --> 01:19:43.001
talked about, and we're gonna sit down
nice and soft on the horse's back.

01:19:43.661 --> 01:19:47.831
And if they can do all that, and with
somebody in the back, on the back of the

01:19:47.831 --> 01:19:52.121
horse, helping them, supporting them with
sidewalks and someone leading the horse,

01:19:52.331 --> 01:19:53.831
we can go through all those motions.

01:19:54.941 --> 01:19:59.981
Then we can put it into motion at a walk,
and then we start it all over again.

01:20:00.161 --> 01:20:02.741
Hey, you just went into this
position on the croup of the horse.

01:20:02.891 --> 01:20:05.171
You're gonna sit there and we're
just gonna walk, and you're gonna

01:20:05.171 --> 01:20:07.421
feel what that feels like, period.

01:20:08.681 --> 01:20:14.261
And then once they discover, oh, well
that doesn't feel so bad, I can do it.

01:20:14.441 --> 01:20:15.191
Okay, great.

01:20:15.251 --> 01:20:16.901
Now let's put those feet in the straps.

01:20:18.236 --> 01:20:21.446
Then once they realize they can balance,
I mean, if they can do everything that

01:20:21.446 --> 01:20:24.836
I put them through at a standstill,
they can definitely do it in motion.

01:20:24.836 --> 01:20:27.956
It's just being able to get
them to believe they can do it.

01:20:29.186 --> 01:20:35.426
So it's training in this very
basic baby step type method,

01:20:35.996 --> 01:20:39.716
but with the belief constantly
reassuring, Hey, look, you did it.

01:20:39.716 --> 01:20:40.286
Yes.

01:20:40.376 --> 01:20:40.706
All right.

01:20:40.706 --> 01:20:44.306
If you got this, then you
can definitely do this move.

01:20:45.056 --> 01:20:46.886
Rupert Isaacson: Tell me
about the support people.

01:20:47.036 --> 01:20:51.356
So you're talking about having someone
on the horse with them to stabilize

01:20:51.356 --> 01:20:52.826
them as well as the ground people?

01:20:53.216 --> 01:20:56.576
Because of course if, if someone is sort
of adult size and they need to come off

01:20:56.576 --> 01:21:02.156
quickly, it's hard if they're, if they're
standing up to sort of dismount them and

01:21:02.156 --> 01:21:03.896
they might weigh 200 pounds, you know?

01:21:03.896 --> 01:21:07.406
So, you know, and, and Brooke for
example, you know, I watched her

01:21:07.406 --> 01:21:08.606
when she was up there with Rowan.

01:21:08.606 --> 01:21:09.896
I mean, she's half his size right?

01:21:10.076 --> 01:21:10.286
Of course.

01:21:10.286 --> 01:21:14.396
She's incredibly strong, incredibly
athletic, and incredibly professional

01:21:14.396 --> 01:21:21.776
in what she does to see how you
could stabilize large people.

01:21:22.346 --> 01:21:27.086
Talk to us about how do you, what's your
system for organizing the support people?

01:21:28.356 --> 01:21:32.136
Celisse Barrett: So I use everything
from gait belts, different types

01:21:32.136 --> 01:21:36.836
of safety rigging, if I have to put
it on the person if they cannot.

01:21:37.946 --> 01:21:41.216
Feel, if they don't feel comfortable
doing everything at a standstill,

01:21:41.336 --> 01:21:42.986
we don't go onto anything in motion.

01:21:43.886 --> 01:21:45.026
We simply can, can,
and you'll have someone

01:21:45.026 --> 01:21:47.486
Rupert Isaacson: up there with the
horse on the horse with them stabilizing

01:21:47.486 --> 01:21:49.616
them sometimes also at the standstill.

01:21:49.616 --> 01:21:49.886
Right?

01:21:49.886 --> 01:21:50.156
Absolutely.

01:21:50.216 --> 01:21:52.916
Almost like a vaulting team on a horse.

01:21:53.426 --> 01:21:53.996
Celisse Barrett: Correct.

01:21:54.236 --> 01:21:54.386
Yeah.

01:21:54.386 --> 01:21:57.206
Those Olympic vaulting teams
that require four and five riders

01:21:57.206 --> 01:21:59.726
on a horse at one time, but yet
we can't back ride with ours.

01:21:59.966 --> 01:22:00.266
Yeah.

01:22:00.296 --> 01:22:00.626
Those

01:22:00.846 --> 01:22:01.036
Rupert Isaacson: yeah.

01:22:03.091 --> 01:22:03.211
Celisse Barrett: Yeah.

01:22:03.271 --> 01:22:06.071
So, yeah, I'll have somebody
up there to help stabilize.

01:22:06.071 --> 01:22:09.551
And now if they do get to a certain
weight where we don't, where we

01:22:09.551 --> 01:22:11.321
know we can't physically hold them.

01:22:11.771 --> 01:22:11.921
Yeah.

01:22:11.926 --> 01:22:13.781
We'll, we'll, we'll do another maneuver.

01:22:14.901 --> 01:22:16.086
'Cause we don't wanna put ourselves.

01:22:16.086 --> 01:22:16.286
Okay.

01:22:16.286 --> 01:22:16.551
What would you, what would

01:22:16.551 --> 01:22:19.761
Rupert Isaacson: you do in, in the
case of someone who's at that size?

01:22:20.581 --> 01:22:22.861
Celisse Barrett: I would probably,
let's start with learning

01:22:22.861 --> 01:22:24.241
how to ride backwards first.

01:22:24.721 --> 01:22:25.201
Rupert Isaacson: Okay.

01:22:25.861 --> 01:22:28.681
Celisse Barrett: Let's start with learning
how to do it around the world where

01:22:28.681 --> 01:22:33.301
they're still in control and if they do
slide off the horse, we are there to catch

01:22:33.301 --> 01:22:37.751
them and guide them to the ground at a
much slower pace where they're much lower.

01:22:37.751 --> 01:22:41.411
Rowan was an exception because yes, he
was tall, but he was still within the

01:22:41.411 --> 01:22:43.211
weight limit that we felt comfortable.

01:22:43.211 --> 01:22:43.636
Yeah, yeah,

01:22:44.411 --> 01:22:44.621
yeah.

01:22:44.731 --> 01:22:49.771
Whereas somebody who's, you know, 225
pounds, we probably wouldn't do that

01:22:49.891 --> 01:22:55.111
because that would be, unless I had, you
know, something, some belay rigging set

01:22:55.111 --> 01:22:58.201
up where, you know, we could actually
attach them to a harness, which is,

01:22:58.201 --> 01:23:01.871
that's one of our goals for the future
that maybe we'll get to in this podcast.

01:23:01.871 --> 01:23:02.471
But, yeah.

01:23:02.471 --> 01:23:06.101
Our goal even, well, what we would
like to do is be able to, when as we're

01:23:06.101 --> 01:23:13.301
rebuilding our program, have a facility
where you ever watch ice skaters practice.

01:23:14.081 --> 01:23:14.381
Rupert Isaacson: Mm-hmm.

01:23:14.381 --> 01:23:14.591
When they

01:23:14.591 --> 01:23:18.221
Celisse Barrett: practice all the lifts
and they practice the triple axles and all

01:23:18.221 --> 01:23:24.471
those spins, they have a, a belay system
that's on a track in the rink so they

01:23:24.471 --> 01:23:28.761
can practice these things without ever
killing themselves landing on the ice.

01:23:28.796 --> 01:23:30.126
Rupert Isaacson: Like a
sort of aerial support.

01:23:30.906 --> 01:23:31.126
Celisse Barrett: Yes.

01:23:31.526 --> 01:23:39.076
I would love, my dream is to build an
arena where I could use that track to be,

01:23:39.176 --> 01:23:46.731
to keep this program going where people
of all shapes and sizes could experience

01:23:47.691 --> 01:23:51.921
what we do, but with full safety rigging.

01:23:52.521 --> 01:23:52.611
Rupert Isaacson: Mm-hmm.

01:23:52.971 --> 01:23:56.301
Celisse Barrett: Somebody with
my knee injury, the best thing

01:23:56.301 --> 01:23:57.591
for my knees was Roman riding.

01:23:58.581 --> 01:24:00.621
If I, I never thought I'd
say that in a million years.

01:24:00.741 --> 01:24:01.221
That's counterintuitive.

01:24:01.221 --> 01:24:01.311
Yeah.

01:24:02.881 --> 01:24:07.471
The stability that I gained after
tearing both my acls and learning how

01:24:07.471 --> 01:24:10.711
to, like, teaching myself again how
to Roman ride, no matter what form of

01:24:10.711 --> 01:24:16.081
physical therapy I did Roman riding
made me so, made my knees so strong.

01:24:16.801 --> 01:24:20.101
The only problem with Roman
riding is what happens when you

01:24:20.101 --> 01:24:21.211
eat dirt and hit the ground.

01:24:21.781 --> 01:24:21.961
Rupert Isaacson: Yeah.

01:24:22.041 --> 01:24:25.161
Celisse Barrett: So if you
could have a safety contraption.

01:24:26.436 --> 01:24:31.026
Put in a covered arena where you
wouldn't have to worry about rehabbing

01:24:31.026 --> 01:24:34.326
people, you wouldn't have to worry about
hitting the ground, and you could still

01:24:34.326 --> 01:24:35.826
get all the benefits of Roman riding.

01:24:35.826 --> 01:24:38.916
And if for whatever reason they lost
their balance, it wouldn't hurt the horse.

01:24:39.126 --> 01:24:42.411
You would just catch 'em on
the rigging and, you know,

01:24:42.426 --> 01:24:43.836
you just have to reset again.

01:24:43.896 --> 01:24:49.026
You could, your goals could get so
much further than just having to

01:24:49.026 --> 01:24:50.616
worry about having so many spotters.

01:24:51.216 --> 01:24:54.906
So there was always limits to you follow
where I'm You follow what I'm saying?

01:24:55.481 --> 01:24:56.441
Rupert Isaacson: I do, absolutely.

01:24:56.741 --> 01:25:01.176
And I'm gonna, we're gonna get there where
actually I want to find out what it would

01:25:01.176 --> 01:25:07.296
cost to put that in and, you know, do a
bit of a shout out to our listenership and

01:25:07.296 --> 01:25:09.696
our viewership to perhaps help with that.

01:25:10.146 --> 01:25:13.686
Have you, but just before
we, we we go to that stuff.

01:25:14.136 --> 01:25:17.256
Have you had special needs
people Roman writing?

01:25:18.486 --> 01:25:19.236
Celisse Barrett: I have Incredible.

01:25:19.836 --> 01:25:20.796
Rupert Isaacson: You had Rock Roman

01:25:20.796 --> 01:25:21.156
Celisse Barrett: writing.

01:25:21.966 --> 01:25:23.706
Rupert Isaacson: Tell,
so tell us about Rock.

01:25:23.706 --> 01:25:24.996
Give us Rock's biography.

01:25:24.996 --> 01:25:25.026
Okay.

01:25:25.506 --> 01:25:28.566
And how did you get in Roman writing
and what was the result for him?

01:25:29.226 --> 01:25:30.006
Celisse Barrett: Oh, I love Rocky.

01:25:30.006 --> 01:25:30.666
Rocky's great.

01:25:30.666 --> 01:25:34.806
So Rock came to us back in
the, my very first days after

01:25:34.836 --> 01:25:37.386
me becoming a path instructor.

01:25:38.046 --> 01:25:40.746
And I was doing everything
by the book The Way Path.

01:25:40.746 --> 01:25:42.816
Said it, do it like this, do it like this.

01:25:43.266 --> 01:25:48.726
And I was like, okay, I'm gonna stick to
what I know, what I've been taught, and.

01:25:49.506 --> 01:25:50.316
It wasn't working.

01:25:51.426 --> 01:25:51.516
Yeah,

01:25:52.041 --> 01:25:55.896
he, he had a great, he had a great
like first month and then all

01:25:55.896 --> 01:25:57.966
of a sudden he's regressing bad.

01:25:58.416 --> 01:26:00.546
He's trying to bite me.

01:26:00.546 --> 01:26:03.276
He's hitting the horse, he's
hitting his family members.

01:26:03.276 --> 01:26:05.586
He's biting the sidewalks,
he's hitting them.

01:26:05.976 --> 01:26:10.956
And anytime he was on a horse,
it was just going backwards and

01:26:11.136 --> 01:26:12.726
I was failing him as a teacher.

01:26:13.386 --> 01:26:14.871
Rupert Isaacson: And why
was it going backwards?

01:26:16.211 --> 01:26:16.591
Celisse Barrett: I'm sorry?

01:26:17.971 --> 01:26:19.031
Rupert Isaacson: Why
was it going backwards?

01:26:19.251 --> 01:26:22.846
Celisse Barrett: Oh, why well, at the
time I didn't know why it was going

01:26:22.846 --> 01:26:27.556
backwards, but he was definitely not
comfortable and it was not putting him in

01:26:27.556 --> 01:26:30.076
that state that I wanted to see him in.

01:26:30.176 --> 01:26:33.176
He would get on the horse for a
minute and then he was off again.

01:26:33.506 --> 01:26:38.306
And Rocky, if you, once you know
about him and his family, like,

01:26:38.366 --> 01:26:39.956
oh, Rocky is an adrenaline junkie.

01:26:39.986 --> 01:26:43.316
He's the kid that you have to call the
fire department for because he's climbed

01:26:43.316 --> 01:26:44.786
a tree and he literally can't get down.

01:26:45.386 --> 01:26:45.476
Rupert Isaacson: Hmm.

01:26:45.896 --> 01:26:46.766
Celisse Barrett: And so

01:26:48.806 --> 01:26:52.286
I was hoping and praying
that his mom would ask me to

01:26:52.286 --> 01:26:53.306
teach him how to trick ride.

01:26:53.666 --> 01:26:58.766
I'm like, I feel like Rocky wants more
than he just, he doesn't want pony rides.

01:26:58.766 --> 01:27:01.676
He needs something where he can
physically challenge himself.

01:27:03.296 --> 01:27:05.486
Because when you know about his
history again, and he can obviously

01:27:05.486 --> 01:27:07.196
Rupert Isaacson: follow, follow direction.

01:27:07.196 --> 01:27:07.376
Right.

01:27:07.376 --> 01:27:08.876
He can follow top down instructions.

01:27:09.821 --> 01:27:11.111
Celisse Barrett: He can to a point.

01:27:11.171 --> 01:27:13.291
His brother was a huge cult.

01:27:13.291 --> 01:27:17.221
His brother was a huge asset to me,
teaching Rocky how to trick ride.

01:27:17.941 --> 01:27:20.281
So we stopped riding after a while.

01:27:20.341 --> 01:27:21.421
His mom's like, you know what?

01:27:21.421 --> 01:27:22.231
He's getting violent.

01:27:22.231 --> 01:27:23.281
Let's just stop for a minute.

01:27:23.281 --> 01:27:26.281
His mom happened to be a
professional dancer at one point

01:27:26.281 --> 01:27:28.021
in her life for a football team.

01:27:29.581 --> 01:27:31.441
I believe she was a dancer
for the Dallas Cowboys.

01:27:32.161 --> 01:27:37.141
And she called me up and
she's like, look, do you mind

01:27:37.141 --> 01:27:38.071
teaching him how to trick ride?

01:27:39.511 --> 01:27:41.041
And I was like, what?

01:27:41.611 --> 01:27:43.351
Rupert Isaacson: What was
his diagnosis, by the way?

01:27:44.191 --> 01:27:45.031
Celisse Barrett: Au Autism.

01:27:45.336 --> 01:27:45.626
Rupert Isaacson: Okay.

01:27:46.561 --> 01:27:46.891
Celisse Barrett: That's, that's it.

01:27:46.891 --> 01:27:49.021
I don't know where he is.

01:27:49.171 --> 01:27:53.671
He is, he gets overstimulated very easily.

01:27:54.011 --> 01:27:55.931
He has no patience to wait for anything.

01:27:56.661 --> 01:27:57.981
He's not very verbal.

01:27:58.611 --> 01:28:03.651
He will talk once in a while,
but it's, you're not gonna have a

01:28:03.651 --> 01:28:07.251
conversation with Rock the way you
and me and Rowan have a conversation.

01:28:07.251 --> 01:28:07.281
Okay.

01:28:07.921 --> 01:28:13.321
He is very different and when he does
get angry, he lashes out and or he runs.

01:28:13.741 --> 01:28:13.831
Mm-hmm.

01:28:13.831 --> 01:28:16.591
And that boy can run
like nobody's business.

01:28:16.621 --> 01:28:17.731
Um mm-hmm.

01:28:17.731 --> 01:28:18.631
That's the story for another day.

01:28:18.631 --> 01:28:21.161
But chase him down with
a car once he took off.

01:28:22.736 --> 01:28:25.691
He was, he was like a half mile down
the street before I could even get outta

01:28:25.691 --> 01:28:28.271
the driveway with his helmet on, though.

01:28:28.271 --> 01:28:32.321
He had his helmet on, so at least
everyone knew where he was running from.

01:28:32.561 --> 01:28:33.551
I'm like, oh my gosh.

01:28:34.541 --> 01:28:38.191
But anyway but I was really worried in
the beginning if it was going to work

01:28:38.191 --> 01:28:42.931
because for a kid who got overstimulated
about everything, now she's asking

01:28:42.931 --> 01:28:44.341
me to teach him how to trick ride.

01:28:44.491 --> 01:28:45.571
Now I have to touch him.

01:28:46.081 --> 01:28:49.621
I have to physically move him
in certain positions and how

01:28:49.621 --> 01:28:50.911
is he going to receive that?

01:28:52.081 --> 01:28:57.301
And as soon as he realized what I was
asking to do and he could tune into

01:28:57.301 --> 01:29:02.281
the sensation of having to balance
on the horse, everything changed.

01:29:02.281 --> 01:29:07.801
It was like a flip switched in
Rocky's head and he wanted more of it.

01:29:08.491 --> 01:29:12.961
So by the end, and we did this for
five or six years, when you came to

01:29:12.961 --> 01:29:19.621
the show, you saw Rock probably in
the most uncomfortable experience that

01:29:19.621 --> 01:29:23.641
he's had because he had just hurt his
leg and he wanted to be in the show so

01:29:23.641 --> 01:29:26.881
badly, but he didn't have the ability
to do all of the stunts that he was

01:29:26.881 --> 01:29:28.591
doing because his leg was in a cast.

01:29:29.141 --> 01:29:30.701
But he still wanted to be there.

01:29:30.851 --> 01:29:34.631
Rock when we would do shows,
our, our call time for every

01:29:34.631 --> 01:29:36.101
student was an hour before a show.

01:29:36.251 --> 01:29:39.971
Rocky's call time was five minutes
before the show started, because

01:29:39.971 --> 01:29:41.981
if he sat around, I would lose him.

01:29:42.671 --> 01:29:43.001
Yeah.

01:29:43.061 --> 01:29:46.091
Like he would, he, he, he
could not sit around and wait.

01:29:46.091 --> 01:29:47.261
That was not what Rocky did.

01:29:47.861 --> 01:29:54.041
So by the end of it, Rocky Could
Rock, could step off the side of the

01:29:54.041 --> 01:29:56.801
horse at a run, touch the ground.

01:29:57.206 --> 01:29:58.556
Get back up on the horse.

01:29:58.796 --> 01:30:03.446
He could do it around the world
of complete 1 360, turn on the

01:30:03.446 --> 01:30:05.186
horses in the saddle at a run.

01:30:05.936 --> 01:30:07.166
And he could stand, stand up with

01:30:07.166 --> 01:30:07.481
Rupert Isaacson: the horse in Cantor.

01:30:07.941 --> 01:30:08.576
Celisse Barrett: In a cantor.

01:30:08.636 --> 01:30:09.056
Yes.

01:30:09.716 --> 01:30:13.376
And he could stand up
on the horse at a run.

01:30:14.126 --> 01:30:14.521
Rupert Isaacson: At what age?

01:30:14.636 --> 01:30:17.816
Celisse Barrett: And, and he was 16 or 17.

01:30:18.356 --> 01:30:18.596
Rupert Isaacson: Okay.

01:30:19.286 --> 01:30:22.256
Celisse Barrett: When he was,
when before he, we program.

01:30:22.556 --> 01:30:23.366
It's funny, I can

01:30:23.366 --> 01:30:25.376
Rupert Isaacson: feel
my own neurons firing.

01:30:26.216 --> 01:30:26.396
Boom.

01:30:26.636 --> 01:30:29.726
As you talk through the
process, even at the standstill.

01:30:30.516 --> 01:30:30.576
Yeah.

01:30:30.696 --> 01:30:36.306
Let alone what the explosion of
neuroplasticity that this must cause.

01:30:37.326 --> 01:30:37.506
Celisse Barrett: Oh.

01:30:37.506 --> 01:30:37.716
Oh.

01:30:37.716 --> 01:30:38.736
And he learned how to vault.

01:30:39.666 --> 01:30:39.756
Rupert Isaacson: Okay.

01:30:39.756 --> 01:30:39.966
At a

01:30:39.966 --> 01:30:40.296
Celisse Barrett: trot.

01:30:40.296 --> 01:30:43.296
He never trotted at a canner, but he
trotted at a, he vaulted at a trot.

01:30:43.806 --> 01:30:47.976
And the day he figured out how to vault
up onto the horse, tr trying to teach

01:30:47.976 --> 01:30:56.346
a nonverbal man basically how to can't,
how to manipulate their bodies to jump up

01:30:56.346 --> 01:30:59.226
on a, on a moving animal was so tricky.

01:30:59.676 --> 01:31:02.016
But he did it.

01:31:02.196 --> 01:31:02.766
And

01:31:03.486 --> 01:31:04.086
Rupert Isaacson: incredible.

01:31:04.326 --> 01:31:07.116
Celisse Barrett: A lot of it was
us, like whisking him up there at

01:31:07.176 --> 01:31:10.056
just the right time to help him
understand what he was supposed to do.

01:31:10.056 --> 01:31:13.656
But Rock was a kid that he, if
he could feel it, he could do it.

01:31:13.961 --> 01:31:14.251
Okay.

01:31:14.251 --> 01:31:15.951
And once he felt it, he loved it.

01:31:15.951 --> 01:31:19.461
And I remember like in the show, the
show that you watched, I don't know

01:31:19.461 --> 01:31:20.961
if you were there the very last day.

01:31:21.021 --> 01:31:21.261
No.

01:31:21.261 --> 01:31:23.781
You had left, the people watched him.

01:31:24.081 --> 01:31:26.721
He was having a moment because
he had his leg in the cast and

01:31:26.721 --> 01:31:28.011
it was overstimulating for him.

01:31:28.671 --> 01:31:29.151
Rupert Isaacson: And I looked

01:31:29.151 --> 01:31:32.151
Celisse Barrett: at him, I said,
Rocky, do you want a canter on Romeo?

01:31:33.141 --> 01:31:34.131
And he said, yes.

01:31:34.131 --> 01:31:35.691
And I said, okay.

01:31:36.201 --> 01:31:39.021
So what we would do, and he was
overstimulated, was I'd just take him out

01:31:39.021 --> 01:31:45.081
there in the ring and I would just canter
I'd, I'd say, all right, Romeo Hop and

01:31:45.081 --> 01:31:47.301
Romeo would just canter in the circle.

01:31:47.661 --> 01:31:49.191
Everybody thought that was the trick.

01:31:49.581 --> 01:31:50.481
That was not the trick.

01:31:50.511 --> 01:31:53.481
That was me getting rocky
back, mentally focused.

01:31:53.911 --> 01:31:57.811
And we would just go around and
around and around and until I could

01:31:57.811 --> 01:31:59.791
see the calm just come over him.

01:31:59.971 --> 01:32:01.291
'cause he just, he loved the ride.

01:32:01.291 --> 01:32:01.681
He loved

01:32:02.281 --> 01:32:02.761
Rupert Isaacson: the, almost
like lunging a horse and

01:32:02.761 --> 01:32:04.081
waiting till the eye gets soft.

01:32:04.141 --> 01:32:04.621
Yeah.

01:32:04.741 --> 01:32:04.951
Celisse Barrett: Yes.

01:32:05.431 --> 01:32:07.261
That's exact It's, that's exactly it.

01:32:07.261 --> 01:32:07.621
Yes.

01:32:07.741 --> 01:32:11.941
I would lunge rocky on the horse
waiting till his eyes just softened up.

01:32:12.211 --> 01:32:13.531
And then he was like, okay, I'm good.

01:32:13.921 --> 01:32:15.451
And everyone started to cheer.

01:32:15.451 --> 01:32:19.411
And Rocky would look at me and I look
at him and we're like, we haven't

01:32:19.411 --> 01:32:20.491
even gotten started yet, guys.

01:32:20.491 --> 01:32:21.901
Like that was just, that was the warmup.

01:32:21.901 --> 01:32:22.321
Hang on.

01:32:24.001 --> 01:32:29.311
And so, but for a boy who couldn't be
touched to a boy who now wanted to perform

01:32:29.851 --> 01:32:37.201
in front of lights and sound and all this
other stimulate, stimulating environmental

01:32:37.201 --> 01:32:40.951
stressors, he freaking thrived in it.

01:32:40.951 --> 01:32:41.011
Hmm.

01:32:41.431 --> 01:32:47.431
And the reason why I always talk
about him is because I knew if I

01:32:47.431 --> 01:32:48.961
could get a breakthrough with rock.

01:32:50.476 --> 01:32:53.056
Then I could get a breakthrough
with so many others because he was

01:32:53.056 --> 01:32:56.086
so hard to get a breakthrough with.

01:32:56.086 --> 01:32:59.236
And it was just, again,
learning more about him.

01:32:59.236 --> 01:32:59.806
Who was he?

01:32:59.806 --> 01:33:00.796
He loved adrenaline.

01:33:01.216 --> 01:33:03.916
The Roman riding, he did very great.

01:33:03.976 --> 01:33:05.596
He did great with that in the beginning.

01:33:06.026 --> 01:33:06.866
How did you get, how did

01:33:06.866 --> 01:33:08.156
Rupert Isaacson: you
show him how to do it?

01:33:08.666 --> 01:33:09.956
Did you have to stand behind him?

01:33:10.736 --> 01:33:13.586
Celisse Barrett: Yes, there were
actually, oh, this was a lot of people.

01:33:13.796 --> 01:33:16.826
We had two per, two people on the
head of each Roman riding horse.

01:33:17.246 --> 01:33:20.216
And then we had a sidewalk on

01:33:22.406 --> 01:33:24.446
the one, the left side of the horse.

01:33:24.626 --> 01:33:25.496
On the left horse.

01:33:25.826 --> 01:33:29.846
A sidewalk on the right side of
the horse or on the, I'm sorry.

01:33:30.236 --> 01:33:33.716
The right when you're ro riding, you
have a left foot and a right foot horse.

01:33:33.836 --> 01:33:36.806
You have one side walker on the left,
one side walker on the right horse.

01:33:36.956 --> 01:33:38.306
And then we had two back riders.

01:33:38.306 --> 01:33:38.366
Wow.

01:33:39.416 --> 01:33:41.366
And I had ropes set up.

01:33:41.426 --> 01:33:41.636
Yeah.

01:33:41.636 --> 01:33:45.356
So to get him to rum and ride,
it took 1, 2, 3, 4, 6 of us

01:33:47.096 --> 01:33:48.446
to give him this experience.

01:33:48.446 --> 01:33:49.856
And so I would back ride.

01:33:50.336 --> 01:33:53.276
Brooke would back ride on
the other woman riding horse.

01:33:53.756 --> 01:33:57.236
And then as he would, and then we were,
her and I were on the cr of the horses.

01:33:57.386 --> 01:34:01.346
And then I would just show him, all
right, step one, you're gonna kneel.

01:34:01.436 --> 01:34:03.746
And rock was really great
at copying what we did.

01:34:04.496 --> 01:34:09.296
And so what was neat was once he
was able to stand up and he was

01:34:09.296 --> 01:34:13.136
holding onto ropes that I had onto
the, I had placed on the rigging.

01:34:13.941 --> 01:34:15.351
He never had the reins in his hands.

01:34:16.221 --> 01:34:20.181
But once he was able to stand
up, his body would self adjust.

01:34:20.721 --> 01:34:23.061
Like you could see him losing his
balance and he would pick up his foot

01:34:23.061 --> 01:34:26.151
and he would put it down in a new place
on the back of the horse naturally

01:34:26.151 --> 01:34:27.681
without me having to say anything.

01:34:28.341 --> 01:34:38.511
And so it was really teaching him to find
this self-awareness that he had to find.

01:34:38.541 --> 01:34:42.141
Instinctually, there's nothing but
when it comes to Roman riding, you

01:34:42.141 --> 01:34:46.131
can tell everybody in the world
what to do, but there's a matter

01:34:46.131 --> 01:34:49.071
of just doing it and getting up
there and standing on the animals.

01:34:49.071 --> 01:34:53.481
I mean, it, it's, I think it's
the hardest stunt to do, honestly.

01:34:53.481 --> 01:34:53.541
Yeah.

01:34:53.841 --> 01:34:56.181
I mean, it's the one stunt you're
not attached to the horse, to, you're

01:34:56.181 --> 01:35:00.201
literally surfing on two surfboards
that have two different minds of their

01:35:00.201 --> 01:35:03.921
own and they're not always going the
same speed and they're not always,

01:35:04.191 --> 01:35:06.051
you know, moving in the same rhythm.

01:35:06.411 --> 01:35:06.471
Yeah.

01:35:06.501 --> 01:35:07.281
And so

01:35:09.291 --> 01:35:17.301
what he was doing naturally was I was,
I was floored by it because he was being

01:35:17.301 --> 01:35:24.231
able to, being able to self adjust and he,
he wouldn't last very long in the arena.

01:35:24.231 --> 01:35:27.741
He would maybe last, he could maybe stand
for a full lap around the arena, which

01:35:27.741 --> 01:35:29.271
is actually pretty good
out a, that's lot Roman

01:35:29.271 --> 01:35:29.541
riding.

01:35:29.601 --> 01:35:30.501
Like, that's a lot.

01:35:30.981 --> 01:35:33.951
Before, like, it was a lot,
but, and he did it so well.

01:35:34.031 --> 01:35:35.561
And he just really learned
how to move his body.

01:35:35.561 --> 01:35:35.801
No.

01:35:35.801 --> 01:35:37.631
Did he ever take the reins and Roman ride?

01:35:37.631 --> 01:35:38.771
No, he did not.

01:35:39.041 --> 01:35:41.591
But could he stand on two moving
horses walking around an arena?

01:35:42.011 --> 01:35:42.611
Yes, he could.

01:35:43.761 --> 01:35:45.096
Rupert Isaacson: And he could
do that in the show, and that's

01:35:45.096 --> 01:35:45.296
Celisse Barrett: hard.

01:35:45.981 --> 01:35:47.091
He never did that in the show.

01:35:47.541 --> 01:35:47.661
Rupert Isaacson: Okay.

01:35:47.661 --> 01:35:47.721
No.

01:35:48.681 --> 01:35:48.981
But

01:35:49.211 --> 01:35:51.491
But even so, yeah, it's
a massive achievement.

01:35:52.151 --> 01:35:53.561
Celisse Barrett: Yes, absolutely.

01:35:53.951 --> 01:35:56.801
The show was, the show was
harder for Roman riding because

01:35:56.801 --> 01:35:58.421
we were in such a smaller area

01:35:58.691 --> 01:35:58.871
Yeah.

01:35:58.931 --> 01:35:59.771
Of our performances.

01:35:59.771 --> 01:36:04.121
And that for him to Roman ride, we really
needed to be like on our track at home

01:36:04.211 --> 01:36:08.991
where we had a lot of straight lines
so he could really find his balance.

01:36:08.991 --> 01:36:09.111
I could

01:36:09.111 --> 01:36:09.321
Rupert Isaacson: see that.

01:36:10.221 --> 01:36:13.761
But each of the fact that you
do it at all where is Rocky now?

01:36:13.761 --> 01:36:14.991
What, what, what's he doing?

01:36:16.791 --> 01:36:21.801
Celisse Barrett: I have not seen
Rock in probably for three, three

01:36:21.801 --> 01:36:23.271
years, probably since COVID.

01:36:23.421 --> 01:36:24.891
He has gone through,

01:36:26.991 --> 01:36:28.191
he's gone through quite a bit.

01:36:28.521 --> 01:36:33.291
I know with him he is, had some,

01:36:36.231 --> 01:36:38.631
he is, had some issues again
where he is become, I mean,

01:36:38.631 --> 01:36:40.401
he, he's outgrown his mom now.

01:36:40.401 --> 01:36:44.841
He's like six foot two or
whatever, and he's strong as an ox.

01:36:45.361 --> 01:36:48.481
And so there were some behavioral
issues that they were working.

01:36:49.396 --> 01:36:54.586
On with him and the horse that he was,
Roman Ro the hor Romeo has since retired.

01:36:54.586 --> 01:36:54.646
Yeah.

01:36:54.856 --> 01:36:56.206
Romeo's 23 now.

01:36:56.476 --> 01:36:57.131
So I

01:36:57.331 --> 01:36:57.826
Rupert Isaacson: remember Romeo.

01:36:58.336 --> 01:36:58.726
Celisse Barrett: Yeah.

01:36:58.756 --> 01:36:59.896
He's, he's still around.

01:36:59.996 --> 01:37:04.046
And so when Romeo kind of started
fizzling out and Rocky started

01:37:04.046 --> 01:37:07.856
getting bigger, I knew that I was
gonna have to find another horse.

01:37:08.396 --> 01:37:08.756
Rupert Isaacson: Yeah.

01:37:08.876 --> 01:37:11.126
Celisse Barrett: And 'cause Romeo
could only take, you know, do so much.

01:37:11.126 --> 01:37:17.636
And at that time, I mean that was, he was
19, Romeo was 19 at the time, 18 or 19.

01:37:17.636 --> 01:37:21.361
And so it was just becoming a little
bit much for Romeo to be able, and it,

01:37:21.776 --> 01:37:26.816
it all kind, everything kind of changed
during c for us in the equestrian

01:37:26.816 --> 01:37:29.006
chaos show that we were once doing.

01:37:29.576 --> 01:37:29.816
Yeah.

01:37:29.816 --> 01:37:35.036
And and so now that we have a new herd
of horses I haven't really seen rock,

01:37:35.036 --> 01:37:38.096
but I would like to bring him back out
and start doing some more stuff with him

01:37:38.096 --> 01:37:41.006
once the new horses are a little more,

01:37:41.631 --> 01:37:42.531
Rupert Isaacson: is he living at home?

01:37:42.991 --> 01:37:45.326
Is he in an assisted living situation?

01:37:45.926 --> 01:37:47.306
Celisse Barrett: He is at,
he is at home right now.

01:37:47.366 --> 01:37:49.526
He did go to a hospital for a while.

01:37:49.556 --> 01:37:51.326
He was becoming violent again.

01:37:51.816 --> 01:37:56.766
And unfortunately there was no
choice but to send him to a hospital.

01:37:57.196 --> 01:37:57.496
Yeah.

01:37:57.616 --> 01:38:03.676
Because he was becoming dangerous and
this is, no, it's not confidential.

01:38:03.676 --> 01:38:06.106
This is all stuff his
mother has posted online.

01:38:06.106 --> 01:38:06.136
Okay.

01:38:06.676 --> 01:38:07.276
And.

01:38:07.996 --> 01:38:10.216
I believe now what they
are doing with him.

01:38:10.216 --> 01:38:11.776
And that's been very helpful.

01:38:11.836 --> 01:38:13.846
I don't know how much you
know about ketamine infusions.

01:38:14.536 --> 01:38:15.736
Rupert Isaacson: I do, yes.

01:38:15.771 --> 01:38:17.806
Celisse Barrett: But he is actually
going through ketamine treatments.

01:38:17.866 --> 01:38:18.556
He goes once a month.

01:38:18.556 --> 01:38:19.096
How interesting.

01:38:19.576 --> 01:38:21.151
Have no infusion and has been, is

01:38:21.151 --> 01:38:22.606
Rupert Isaacson: that
in the state of Alabama?

01:38:23.146 --> 01:38:23.566
Celisse Barrett: Yes.

01:38:24.016 --> 01:38:25.276
Rupert Isaacson: And they've
legalized that there.

01:38:25.336 --> 01:38:27.946
That's so interesting to me because
it's such a conservative state.

01:38:28.816 --> 01:38:29.056
Celisse Barrett: Yeah.

01:38:29.186 --> 01:38:32.666
There's a place called Holistic Health in
Theodore, Alabama, and they do ketamine

01:38:32.666 --> 01:38:35.936
infusions, and they've been doing
it with rock, and it has been a game

01:38:35.936 --> 01:38:38.606
changer for him, according to his mom.

01:38:39.296 --> 01:38:39.716
Rupert Isaacson: Okay.

01:38:39.716 --> 01:38:39.776
So,

01:38:41.396 --> 01:38:44.786
Celisse Barrett: We talked about a
month ago about the infusions actually.

01:38:44.816 --> 01:38:48.346
And she's like, he still has problems,
but they're nothing like they were.

01:38:48.346 --> 01:38:49.696
And he can come, he's living at home.

01:38:50.476 --> 01:38:50.896
Rupert Isaacson: Okay.

01:38:51.256 --> 01:38:53.266
Celisse Barrett: But, but you
know, I mean, that is a, you know,

01:38:53.266 --> 01:38:56.926
I often do wonder a lot of my
students, what's gonna happen as they

01:38:58.141 --> 01:38:58.381
Rupert Isaacson: age, age out.

01:38:58.381 --> 01:38:59.986
Well, it would be very
interesting to bring him back.

01:38:59.986 --> 01:39:03.886
As you, you may know, I dunno if
you know that, you know, since we've

01:39:04.396 --> 01:39:09.136
been in contact, we, we have a new
program called INE Equine Integration.

01:39:09.136 --> 01:39:11.836
And Taine is a, is a Mongolian word.

01:39:11.836 --> 01:39:15.996
It's for the WildHorse, it means
honored one or revered one.

01:39:15.996 --> 01:39:19.596
And I've always rather like the fact
that the Mongolians sort of honor the

01:39:20.166 --> 01:39:21.816
essential wild nature of the horse.

01:39:21.816 --> 01:39:26.366
And so I wanted to nick that
for, you know, a program title.

01:39:26.936 --> 01:39:27.136
I like that.

01:39:27.186 --> 01:39:31.266
But what it is, is, you know, we, as
you know, incorporate all the dressage.

01:39:32.136 --> 01:39:36.716
And we started running out of time
because we had so many clients to

01:39:36.716 --> 01:39:38.006
train and condition the horses.

01:39:38.006 --> 01:39:41.846
And I went through a lot of stress
and then I had like a duh moment.

01:39:41.846 --> 01:39:44.366
I'm like, it's the clients
who are the trainers.

01:39:44.366 --> 01:39:45.446
They should be the trainers.

01:39:45.446 --> 01:39:47.756
They, they're so good with the horses.

01:39:48.066 --> 01:39:49.236
The horses love them.

01:39:49.536 --> 01:39:54.486
They can absolutely lunge horses, work
in hand with horses, long rein horses.

01:39:54.876 --> 01:40:01.686
And out of that, a program called Tacking
has arisen, which quickly took off also

01:40:01.686 --> 01:40:03.366
with veterans and first responders.

01:40:03.366 --> 01:40:06.876
And 'cause, you know, we could say,
Hey, this horse is broken in service.

01:40:06.876 --> 01:40:10.266
You know, 'cause donation horses
often are, would you help me put

01:40:10.266 --> 01:40:12.096
this horse back together please?

01:40:12.096 --> 01:40:15.006
So it can serve this
autistic person over there.

01:40:15.336 --> 01:40:17.046
And the horse gets what it needs.

01:40:17.046 --> 01:40:21.606
The adult artist or the veteran or
the person with trauma or whatever

01:40:21.606 --> 01:40:25.506
kind gets what they need without ever
having to talk because it's just, they

01:40:25.506 --> 01:40:29.166
are repairing this horse, which is
of course a metaphor for themselves.

01:40:29.676 --> 01:40:31.896
And learning to be like
really good horse trainers.

01:40:32.196 --> 01:40:37.446
And then of course the barn owner is
I me is, is getting what they need

01:40:37.446 --> 01:40:41.166
because that takes all the stress
away because suddenly the thing that

01:40:41.166 --> 01:40:45.516
I was battling for time to do is now
incorporated into the, it is a program.

01:40:45.786 --> 01:40:47.826
And I wonder if something like
that might be good for him.

01:40:48.186 --> 01:40:53.436
So that might be the next stage for us to
talk about, to bring that program perhaps.

01:40:54.501 --> 01:40:58.101
To equestrian chaos, because that was
gonna be my next question actually.

01:40:58.101 --> 01:41:03.501
You know, d as you describe what you have
to do, including sitting on the croup and

01:41:03.501 --> 01:41:05.901
that sort of thing, I know again, you'll
have, you know, a bunch of listeners,

01:41:05.901 --> 01:41:07.161
you can't sit on the croup of a horse.

01:41:07.251 --> 01:41:07.401
Yeah.

01:41:07.701 --> 01:41:13.851
Well, you can of course, if you
strengthen the croup massively.

01:41:13.851 --> 01:41:13.941
Right.

01:41:14.421 --> 01:41:16.251
And train the horse that way.

01:41:16.251 --> 01:41:20.241
But, you know, set the horse
up for success by, so talk to

01:41:20.241 --> 01:41:24.681
us about how you condition and
train and strengthen the horses.

01:41:24.681 --> 01:41:25.791
What's the process?

01:41:26.781 --> 01:41:31.921
Celisse Barrett: We always start in the
round, in the round pin first, always.

01:41:32.141 --> 01:41:35.501
We do a lot of working
in checks with the horse.

01:41:35.531 --> 01:41:39.591
We try to get the horse balanced
moving freely as much as we can.

01:41:39.591 --> 01:41:40.791
Without moving checks means

01:41:40.791 --> 01:41:41.391
Rupert Isaacson: like side res?

01:41:41.846 --> 01:41:42.456
Celisse Barrett: Side res?

01:41:42.531 --> 01:41:42.891
Yes.

01:41:42.896 --> 01:41:42.976
Yeah.

01:41:43.041 --> 01:41:43.341
Yeah.

01:41:43.401 --> 01:41:44.121
Just trying side res.

01:41:44.811 --> 01:41:45.231
Yes.

01:41:45.236 --> 01:41:46.791
All strengthening and balance first.

01:41:46.841 --> 01:41:49.811
I've learned very quickly that it's
very easy to throw horses back out Yes.

01:41:50.201 --> 01:41:52.001
If they're not ready for trick riding.

01:41:52.001 --> 01:41:52.091
Yes.

01:41:52.451 --> 01:41:55.721
So, we prepare them in the
ring equally on both sides.

01:41:56.541 --> 01:42:00.571
First then once we get a
little bit of flexibility, then

01:42:00.571 --> 01:42:01.741
we start working on cardio.

01:42:02.641 --> 01:42:08.051
And we do a lot of Marley's big into
Polo Cross and she's one of my main

01:42:08.471 --> 01:42:10.481
cardio trainers, I guess out here.

01:42:10.481 --> 01:42:13.061
But she can put some cardio on
a horse like nobody's business.

01:42:13.481 --> 01:42:15.131
And she controls their stats.

01:42:15.131 --> 01:42:16.001
She watches their.

01:42:16.406 --> 01:42:21.406
Still monitor their heartbeat, their
respira respiratory rate, and we

01:42:21.406 --> 01:42:25.246
wanna get them to a certain point in
their cardio so we can kind of push

01:42:25.516 --> 01:42:27.316
further into the flexibility work.

01:42:27.616 --> 01:42:27.706
Mm-hmm.

01:42:27.896 --> 01:42:32.456
And then when it comes to, and all this
happens, I mean, it sounds like it's

01:42:32.456 --> 01:42:34.016
fast, but it's not all this can happen.

01:42:34.016 --> 01:42:37.676
It depends on the horse, but
anywhere from a month to three

01:42:37.676 --> 01:42:45.256
months, depending on where the
horse is and how much they re but

01:42:45.256 --> 01:42:47.266
Rupert Isaacson: once they're,
and once they're in the program,

01:42:47.386 --> 01:42:51.166
what's your conditioning,
strengthening sort of day-to-day?

01:42:51.216 --> 01:42:51.306
Yeah.

01:42:51.336 --> 01:42:53.946
Celisse Barrett: For, so basically
once they're in the program, they're

01:42:53.946 --> 01:42:56.916
still working on a lunge line
between one to two days a week.

01:42:57.266 --> 01:42:57.296
Okay.

01:42:57.296 --> 01:43:00.716
Just if they're not working, then
they're, we don't ever bring them in.

01:43:00.926 --> 01:43:01.016
Yeah.

01:43:01.016 --> 01:43:02.096
Side brains on just

01:43:02.096 --> 01:43:03.206
Rupert Isaacson: working that back muscle.

01:43:03.211 --> 01:43:03.851
Working the top line.

01:43:03.851 --> 01:43:03.971
Yeah.

01:43:03.971 --> 01:43:04.051
Just

01:43:04.106 --> 01:43:05.096
Celisse Barrett: working the back muscles.

01:43:05.706 --> 01:43:08.876
And then we take them out
when we start with tricks,

01:43:09.806 --> 01:43:11.246
everything is done very slowly.

01:43:11.246 --> 01:43:13.706
It's much harder for a horse
to balance the slower that

01:43:13.706 --> 01:43:14.936
they are, the weaker they are.

01:43:14.936 --> 01:43:14.966
Okay.

01:43:15.716 --> 01:43:19.106
And so we start with very
little weight shifting on both

01:43:19.106 --> 01:43:20.546
sides of the animal first.

01:43:20.996 --> 01:43:21.176
Okay.

01:43:21.176 --> 01:43:24.356
We'll step off the side of the
horse, we'll say, okay, we'll walk

01:43:24.356 --> 01:43:27.386
this straight line down the side of
the arena, then we'll get back to

01:43:27.386 --> 01:43:29.966
the saddle, and then we're gonna do
the same thing on the other side.

01:43:30.506 --> 01:43:32.126
We may do that for

01:43:34.496 --> 01:43:36.506
another couple of weeks.

01:43:37.286 --> 01:43:42.836
Until I know that their back is good
and then we'll pick it up to a trot.

01:43:43.356 --> 01:43:46.356
Again, doing it all in very
small increments until it just

01:43:46.356 --> 01:43:49.116
becomes natural for the horse.

01:43:49.116 --> 01:43:54.786
We try our, we don't wanna ever soar
them too fast because we want them to

01:43:54.786 --> 01:43:56.411
always like what their job is and mm-hmm.

01:43:56.496 --> 01:43:57.006
What they do.

01:43:57.466 --> 01:43:59.236
We do a lot of trail riding when we can.

01:43:59.906 --> 01:44:01.886
Everyone needs a vacation
and the horses need it too.

01:44:01.886 --> 01:44:05.786
If they're constantly working in the
ring, they don't wanna go in the ring.

01:44:05.876 --> 01:44:06.416
So,

01:44:06.746 --> 01:44:07.076
Rupert Isaacson: yeah.

01:44:07.436 --> 01:44:10.076
Celisse Barrett: We do a lot of
liberty stuff with our horses as well.

01:44:10.646 --> 01:44:11.096
Rupert Isaacson: Okay.

01:44:11.666 --> 01:44:13.916
Celisse Barrett: Just to keep
it, keep it fun, keep them

01:44:13.916 --> 01:44:15.296
moving and keep them engaged.

01:44:15.686 --> 01:44:15.776
Mm-hmm.

01:44:15.966 --> 01:44:19.896
But normally, I mean, their work week,
it's typically when we're finished doing

01:44:19.896 --> 01:44:24.316
it all, usually we're trick riding on
them once or twice a week with practices.

01:44:24.316 --> 01:44:28.816
And then the rest is just the fine tuning
work, whether it's cardio, whether we're

01:44:28.816 --> 01:44:34.636
working on maybe tr working more off
fine tuning leg pressure or you know,

01:44:34.636 --> 01:44:39.496
Roman riding if they're, we kind of take
that as a win 'cause it kind of works.

01:44:39.496 --> 01:44:40.726
Both we're working cardio.

01:44:41.671 --> 01:44:45.121
Roman riding's a lot of cardio For
the horse, it's not so much, and for

01:44:45.121 --> 01:44:46.861
us, it's not really like trick riding.

01:44:46.861 --> 01:44:49.861
I mean, it's, you're taking the weight
off of you and you're putting yourself,

01:44:50.071 --> 01:44:52.981
I mean, you're distributing your
weight on two horses instead of one.

01:44:52.981 --> 01:44:53.826
And so, mm-hmm.

01:44:53.876 --> 01:44:55.946
We do a lot of ponying
with our horses as well.

01:44:56.156 --> 01:44:59.046
If we know one needs cardio, but it
maybe it's too weak, then we pony the

01:44:59.156 --> 01:45:01.916
one horse while we're long trotting
while we're riding the other horse.

01:45:02.996 --> 01:45:03.086
Mm-hmm.

01:45:03.087 --> 01:45:06.957
And so we just kind of constantly
try to change it up like that.

01:45:07.467 --> 01:45:07.827
Rupert Isaacson: Right.

01:45:07.827 --> 01:45:13.017
But with, with sort of solid lunging,
two to three times a week to keep that

01:45:13.047 --> 01:45:13.227
Celisse Barrett: Yes.

01:45:13.767 --> 01:45:15.717
Rupert Isaacson: Back muscle
in the loin and the croup.

01:45:15.717 --> 01:45:16.077
Strong.

01:45:16.797 --> 01:45:19.497
Celisse Barrett: Lots of
cavalletti constantly working on

01:45:19.497 --> 01:45:21.657
footwork, lunging over cavalletti.

01:45:21.687 --> 01:45:25.167
Sometimes we'll put a small jump in
the arena or in the ring just so they

01:45:25.167 --> 01:45:29.037
can really fine tune their footing
and get confident within themselves.

01:45:29.107 --> 01:45:29.197
Rupert Isaacson: Mm-hmm.

01:45:30.037 --> 01:45:32.517
Celisse Barrett: And that's, that's
a lot of it for the most part.

01:45:32.757 --> 01:45:33.327
Rupert Isaacson: Well, it's a lot.

01:45:33.327 --> 01:45:35.127
It, it, well, but it, you know,

01:45:37.947 --> 01:45:41.337
as you know, many, many therapeutic
riding places do not do this.

01:45:41.767 --> 01:45:48.127
And so horses may or may not be there
for really well in body and mind.

01:45:48.847 --> 01:45:53.167
And the question in my mind if, if they're
not, is how can they transmit wellbeing

01:45:54.057 --> 01:45:56.367
if they themselves don't have it to give.

01:45:56.677 --> 01:46:00.307
And it's often not the fault I think
of the people who might be running a

01:46:00.307 --> 01:46:02.107
program where that's not going on because.

01:46:03.307 --> 01:46:05.077
Maybe they haven't had that education.

01:46:05.497 --> 01:46:09.087
But it's you know, I know I'm always
looking for people who are really

01:46:09.087 --> 01:46:15.177
open to how, how can we get better
and better at our horsemanship?

01:46:15.777 --> 01:46:16.467
Not, yeah.

01:46:16.557 --> 01:46:20.337
Just say, well, I I don't do that stuff
because I only do this stuff, you know?

01:46:20.787 --> 01:46:21.357
Okay.

01:46:21.357 --> 01:46:27.027
So there's one other person I'd like
you to tell us about a little bit.

01:46:27.417 --> 01:46:33.537
I remember during the show there
was a very big African American

01:46:33.537 --> 01:46:37.377
young man who had, had suffered a
terrible football injury, right?

01:46:38.007 --> 01:46:38.877
Um mm-hmm.

01:46:39.232 --> 01:46:43.617
And I found him really intriguing because

01:46:46.197 --> 01:46:47.337
there was

01:46:50.187 --> 01:46:53.247
so much going on inside of him.

01:46:53.247 --> 01:46:53.337
Yes.

01:46:54.177 --> 01:46:59.577
But what he could express was so,
so, so just, you know, a twinkle

01:46:59.577 --> 01:47:05.037
in the eye and a half smile from
that man, you know, said volumes.

01:47:05.967 --> 01:47:09.117
Tell us a little about him and how
he ended up in your program and,

01:47:09.117 --> 01:47:10.767
and, and where he went with you.

01:47:11.667 --> 01:47:13.997
Celisse Barrett: That was
Tim . I met him at Camp Smile.

01:47:14.447 --> 01:47:19.967
He came to Camp Smile the year
after he had his football accident.

01:47:20.027 --> 01:47:22.817
He was given an award.

01:47:23.127 --> 01:47:24.447
He was on his way to pro.

01:47:24.907 --> 01:47:26.737
And people were starting to look at him.

01:47:26.827 --> 01:47:32.417
Scouts were looking at him and he was the

01:47:34.657 --> 01:47:35.887
What's the word I'm looking for?

01:47:35.967 --> 01:47:40.562
The result of the helmet defects
that were going, that were happening.

01:47:41.392 --> 01:47:41.802
What was that?

01:47:41.807 --> 01:47:44.107
So we got hit on the field in his helmet.

01:47:44.167 --> 01:47:45.847
He had a, he had a defective helmet,

01:47:46.507 --> 01:47:46.777
Rupert Isaacson: okay.

01:47:46.807 --> 01:47:48.517
Celisse Barrett: And suffered
a traumatic brain injury.

01:47:48.547 --> 01:47:50.497
He got hit on the field, was conscious.

01:47:50.557 --> 01:47:54.557
And then right about two or
three minutes after he was hit he

01:47:54.557 --> 01:47:56.957
collapsed and suffered a brain bleed.

01:47:58.787 --> 01:48:03.137
And that is what paralyzed him
on his left side completely.

01:48:03.947 --> 01:48:10.247
So when he came to us, he was probably
about 250 pounds strong as an ox

01:48:10.247 --> 01:48:15.677
because he just came from like a
full football career or on his way

01:48:15.677 --> 01:48:19.187
to doing a full-time football career,
to now living in a wheelchair.

01:48:19.787 --> 01:48:26.387
And the fight for Tim was to try to
get him as independent as possible

01:48:26.387 --> 01:48:32.057
in trying to get his brain to rewire
everything as best as we could.

01:48:32.157 --> 01:48:33.747
That was the doctor's plan.

01:48:33.747 --> 01:48:37.107
The mom, his mom was a warrior of
a woman, and I tell you, she fought

01:48:37.107 --> 01:48:40.467
for him like every person needs.

01:48:41.232 --> 01:48:44.652
Evelyn, his mom, like Evelyn
was amazing, is amazing.

01:48:44.682 --> 01:48:46.212
And just such a fighter for him.

01:48:46.872 --> 01:48:50.592
But he lost everything on his left side.

01:48:50.982 --> 01:48:52.242
He lost the ability to talk.

01:48:52.572 --> 01:48:53.772
He lost the ability to walk.

01:48:54.792 --> 01:48:55.602
And so

01:48:57.972 --> 01:49:02.052
when we started working with him, I'm
like, okay, if we can't, if you can't use

01:49:02.052 --> 01:49:03.912
your left side, let's use your right side.

01:49:04.932 --> 01:49:11.472
And coming from he, oh, and also before
Tim had his accident, he actually

01:49:11.532 --> 01:49:15.642
was a musician as well, and he cut
his own record in a recording studio.

01:49:15.702 --> 01:49:21.192
So in our show, when he would perform his
act, he wanted to perform it to his song

01:49:21.822 --> 01:49:23.592
and he wanted people to hear his voice.

01:49:24.072 --> 01:49:26.682
So we always played that
when he would take the stage.

01:49:27.342 --> 01:49:30.312
'cause we wanted people
to know who Tim was.

01:49:30.402 --> 01:49:31.362
'cause he was still Tim and he was a rap

01:49:31.362 --> 01:49:31.902
Rupert Isaacson: singer, right?

01:49:32.472 --> 01:49:33.612
Celisse Barrett: He was, yes he was.

01:49:34.182 --> 01:49:38.532
And so, in the beginning it took
five of us, five or six of us, to

01:49:38.532 --> 01:49:40.842
successfully give Tim a horse experience.

01:49:41.712 --> 01:49:48.522
And then by the time you saw him, he
could ride for short periods of time.

01:49:48.522 --> 01:49:51.612
He could ride totally on his
own with the right horse.

01:49:52.152 --> 01:49:53.892
We would never leave him alone

01:49:56.022 --> 01:49:56.832
very long.

01:49:57.312 --> 01:49:59.922
Because obviously if he were to fall.

01:50:01.437 --> 01:50:03.987
He was high risk with already
having a brain injury.

01:50:04.297 --> 01:50:07.537
We didn't want him to, we, we'd
always keep things very controlled.

01:50:08.257 --> 01:50:08.347
Mm-hmm.

01:50:08.347 --> 01:50:10.597
And in the show, the horse knew
exactly what he was supposed to do.

01:50:10.597 --> 01:50:14.167
Every single time we practiced
the same act over and over again.

01:50:14.167 --> 01:50:18.907
So it didn't throw the horse for any, we
didn't throw the horse any curve balls.

01:50:19.397 --> 01:50:23.297
Sebastian has the horse that he
rode, knew his job like a Saint.

01:50:23.477 --> 01:50:26.297
Sebastian knew when he goes into the
ring, he's gonna have to do this.

01:50:26.597 --> 01:50:29.177
And now Tim did all that
with Sebastian, but we did it

01:50:29.327 --> 01:50:31.067
over and over and over again.

01:50:31.497 --> 01:50:31.587
Right.

01:50:31.617 --> 01:50:36.417
What Tim loved, his favorite thing was
when the stunt guys would come out.

01:50:36.417 --> 01:50:40.387
Now, I used I've trained,
I, I dabble in movies.

01:50:40.387 --> 01:50:43.927
I can't say like I'm a
professional movie stunt person,

01:50:43.927 --> 01:50:45.937
but I've, I've been in a few.

01:50:46.477 --> 01:50:51.697
And so I would do stunt trainings for our
friends in the movie world and I would

01:50:51.697 --> 01:50:53.767
teach them how to fall off of horses.

01:50:53.947 --> 01:50:55.387
We had the best horses to do it.

01:50:55.387 --> 01:50:58.657
And so we would take our horses
to our friend's place that had a

01:50:58.657 --> 01:51:02.377
big sandpit, and we would let them
practice falls in a very controlled

01:51:02.377 --> 01:51:03.577
environment so nobody would get hurt.

01:51:04.477 --> 01:51:07.357
And Tim loved those days.

01:51:07.867 --> 01:51:10.837
He would line up in the line with
the stuntman in his wheelchair,

01:51:11.017 --> 01:51:14.047
ready to be put on a horse and
ready to be thrown off of the horse.

01:51:14.152 --> 01:51:16.027
I'm like, Tim, what are you doing, dude?

01:51:16.027 --> 01:51:17.377
I'm not gonna throw you off of a horse.

01:51:17.377 --> 01:51:18.457
You have a traumatic brain injury.

01:51:18.457 --> 01:51:18.907
You know this.

01:51:18.907 --> 01:51:19.207
Right.

01:51:19.477 --> 01:51:21.487
And he knew, like, he would
laugh about it, but he would

01:51:21.487 --> 01:51:22.927
just, he would try to be sneaky.

01:51:22.927 --> 01:51:26.147
He always had a funny sense of
humor about it and trying to sneak

01:51:26.147 --> 01:51:29.237
into the line like, I'm not gonna
see him for me to throw him up on a

01:51:29.237 --> 01:51:30.527
horse, just to throw him off again.

01:51:31.037 --> 01:51:34.997
But he loved I think coming from
football and coming from entertainment,

01:51:35.207 --> 01:51:37.097
he also loved the idea of the show.

01:51:37.787 --> 01:51:37.997
Rupert Isaacson: Yeah.

01:51:38.097 --> 01:51:40.737
Celisse Barrett: And when I asked him
if he wanted to be in it, he was the one

01:51:40.737 --> 01:51:45.837
that picked out that Viking outfit and put
himself in for like a freaking warrior.

01:51:46.197 --> 01:51:46.767
And

01:51:49.257 --> 01:51:52.317
he just, he, he never
took no for an answer.

01:51:52.887 --> 01:51:59.037
And I think that's, he, he had so much
heart, I I say has like, he's not here.

01:51:59.037 --> 01:52:00.057
He's still here with us.

01:52:00.107 --> 01:52:04.847
But he has, he has so much incredible
heart that nothing was going to

01:52:04.847 --> 01:52:07.607
ever hold Tim back in his world.

01:52:07.637 --> 01:52:07.937
Rupert Isaacson: Yeah.

01:52:08.357 --> 01:52:11.897
Celisse Barrett: And I think that's the
secret to a lot of what we do just in life

01:52:11.897 --> 01:52:17.057
in general, is if we could be more like
Tim and not give ourselves limitations.

01:52:17.597 --> 01:52:17.957
Yes.

01:52:17.957 --> 01:52:19.307
Tim knew what he used to do.

01:52:19.397 --> 01:52:22.097
He remembers grabbing the football
and running through the, the goal

01:52:22.097 --> 01:52:23.897
lines and making the field goals.

01:52:23.897 --> 01:52:28.547
And like he remembers that
he'll never do that again, but

01:52:28.547 --> 01:52:29.897
he could get up on the horse.

01:52:30.512 --> 01:52:35.732
We could get him on the horse and
we could put a spear in his hand and

01:52:35.732 --> 01:52:39.212
teach him how to manipulate a spear.

01:52:39.752 --> 01:52:42.722
That was so empowering to him,
and he always wanted to try

01:52:42.722 --> 01:52:45.212
to take it to the next level.

01:52:45.842 --> 01:52:46.442
And

01:52:50.612 --> 01:52:54.062
he was his, like, I would push him.

01:52:54.062 --> 01:52:56.672
He wanted to be, and he wanted
it to be pushed like an athlete.

01:52:56.822 --> 01:52:56.912
Mm-hmm.

01:52:57.492 --> 01:52:59.652
And if there was no pain,
there was no progress.

01:52:59.652 --> 01:53:02.232
And I remember like, I would
ask him like, you good?

01:53:02.232 --> 01:53:03.132
You wanna go again?

01:53:03.492 --> 01:53:07.722
And he would say more, whether I was
stretching him at the time or trying to

01:53:07.722 --> 01:53:11.442
get his arm to move to a certain position
where he could learn how to spin the

01:53:11.442 --> 01:53:14.172
staff properly or learn how to throw it.

01:53:14.172 --> 01:53:16.632
Sometimes he would catch it and it would
turn around and knock 'em in the head

01:53:16.632 --> 01:53:19.272
because he didn't have, you know, at
the time, he didn't have enough muscle

01:53:19.272 --> 01:53:21.522
stability to catch it with the momentum.

01:53:21.762 --> 01:53:27.762
Eventually he did, but he was just the
perfect example of not giving up on

01:53:27.762 --> 01:53:30.172
anything and wanting his independence.

01:53:30.232 --> 01:53:33.472
And so we tried to give that to
him as much as we possibly could.

01:53:34.552 --> 01:53:37.342
And everything that he did
in the show was done by him.

01:53:37.582 --> 01:53:39.682
He picked all of the
moves that he showed off.

01:53:40.232 --> 01:53:46.682
He basically wrote his own act and that's,
we wanted him to, I mean, he had a voice.

01:53:46.682 --> 01:53:46.772
Mm-hmm.

01:53:47.222 --> 01:53:49.572
Maybe not the same voice you and
I have, but he still had one.

01:53:50.222 --> 01:53:51.062
Or still has one.

01:53:51.362 --> 01:53:53.732
So he wanted to ride to his music.

01:53:53.762 --> 01:53:58.172
He wanted to manipulate the spear,
or I guess a bo staff really

01:53:58.172 --> 01:53:59.432
in a martial arts type fashion.

01:53:59.432 --> 01:54:01.472
He wanted to manipulate the staff.

01:54:01.472 --> 01:54:03.602
He would spin it around his his head.

01:54:03.602 --> 01:54:05.072
He would tuck it underneath his shoulder.

01:54:05.102 --> 01:54:07.952
He would strike at certain
things with the staff with one

01:54:07.952 --> 01:54:09.572
arm while he was on the horse.

01:54:09.572 --> 01:54:12.422
And then we'd throw it back and forth
to each other while he was on, I was

01:54:12.422 --> 01:54:14.072
on the ground and he was on the horse.

01:54:14.192 --> 01:54:14.282
Mm-hmm.

01:54:14.582 --> 01:54:19.262
Just little warrior moves that you
would see a martial artist do, and

01:54:21.392 --> 01:54:24.632
that gave him so much purpose.

01:54:25.082 --> 01:54:25.232
Mm.

01:54:25.292 --> 01:54:28.292
And he thrived on it.

01:54:28.592 --> 01:54:32.162
And he never would've gotten
that really anywhere else.

01:54:33.212 --> 01:54:33.422
No, I agree.

01:54:33.422 --> 01:54:33.572
Because

01:54:34.262 --> 01:54:38.282
he, you treat people with a
brain injury in a certain way.

01:54:38.282 --> 01:54:40.952
I mean, you treat anybody with
knee injury in a certain way.

01:54:41.372 --> 01:54:48.242
I mean, I'm doing physical therapy
right now, and it's walking

01:54:48.242 --> 01:54:49.442
into the doctor's office again.

01:54:49.442 --> 01:54:50.972
You're like, all right, here we go again.

01:54:51.302 --> 01:54:51.542
You know?

01:54:51.542 --> 01:54:55.502
And I am of sound, mind and body, and
I can't imagine people who have to

01:54:55.502 --> 01:54:57.692
live in it every single day, 24 7.

01:54:57.692 --> 01:54:59.312
It's just Yeah.

01:54:59.312 --> 01:55:02.227
Who spend their entire lives
walking into an office where, okay,

01:55:02.342 --> 01:55:03.542
well here's what we're gonna do.

01:55:03.662 --> 01:55:04.682
Let's open the book up.

01:55:04.682 --> 01:55:06.332
Here's what the exercises you can do.

01:55:06.332 --> 01:55:07.352
This is all you can do.

01:55:07.352 --> 01:55:09.002
Let's not think outside the box.

01:55:09.122 --> 01:55:09.632
Mm-hmm.

01:55:10.022 --> 01:55:13.442
And it, it just becomes
very, it feels very hopeless.

01:55:14.012 --> 01:55:14.102
Yeah.

01:55:14.102 --> 01:55:15.062
I think for a lot of people.

01:55:16.037 --> 01:55:18.767
And we never wanted it
to feel hopeless for Tim.

01:55:19.397 --> 01:55:21.797
And so we were always trying
to find the next cool thing.

01:55:21.947 --> 01:55:27.407
Oh, one thing we did with him was
if he got bored with the spear,

01:55:27.947 --> 01:55:31.847
we would give him a shield and I
would start throwing things at him.

01:55:32.877 --> 01:55:36.537
Those little stress balls or whatever
you'd find the little foam objects,

01:55:36.537 --> 01:55:39.507
I would find all sorts of random
stuff, and I'd just start chucking

01:55:39.507 --> 01:55:42.837
it at him and making him deflect it.

01:55:43.377 --> 01:55:45.597
And he freaking loved that game.

01:55:45.717 --> 01:55:47.577
And it, and it wasn't
like an easy game either.

01:55:47.577 --> 01:55:48.657
I wouldn't make it easy on him.

01:55:48.657 --> 01:55:50.697
Like I would try to
actually peg him if I could.

01:55:51.147 --> 01:55:52.557
'cause he didn't want me to take it easy.

01:55:52.617 --> 01:55:56.747
And and if he could deflect it fast
enough, I mean, he'd start laughing

01:55:57.107 --> 01:56:02.237
and, and it was again, another, another
empower, something so simple becoming

01:56:02.237 --> 01:56:06.377
so empowering by just putting a shield
in his hands saying, all right, dodge

01:56:06.377 --> 01:56:09.437
this and don't let it hit your horse.

01:56:10.157 --> 01:56:12.467
I mean, he was like, all right, done.

01:56:12.887 --> 01:56:14.327
But that was, that was his story.

01:56:14.327 --> 01:56:21.777
And they I remember his mom fighting
for him so hard to he was, they wanted

01:56:21.777 --> 01:56:25.407
to get him a standing wheelchair
so he wouldn't have pressure sores.

01:56:25.827 --> 01:56:28.077
That was a thing that they
were worried about battling.

01:56:28.737 --> 01:56:28.827
Rupert Isaacson: Yeah.

01:56:28.827 --> 01:56:29.067
Do you know

01:56:29.067 --> 01:56:30.357
Celisse Barrett: how
much those things cost?

01:56:31.677 --> 01:56:32.757
Rupert Isaacson: Hundreds of thousands.

01:56:33.787 --> 01:56:35.137
Celisse Barrett: About
the cost of a Mercedes?

01:56:35.612 --> 01:56:35.902
Rupert Isaacson: Yeah.

01:56:36.172 --> 01:56:36.462
Yeah,

01:56:36.612 --> 01:56:36.997
Celisse Barrett: yeah, yeah.

01:56:37.417 --> 01:56:37.567
Rupert Isaacson: I

01:56:37.567 --> 01:56:41.647
Celisse Barrett: think with
their, with their credit.

01:56:42.082 --> 01:56:48.262
That they got, whatever, I think they paid
out $65,000 for this standing wheelchair.

01:56:48.507 --> 01:56:48.907
They got one.

01:56:49.222 --> 01:56:50.242
They finally got one.

01:56:50.692 --> 01:56:51.742
But it wasn't without,

01:56:52.312 --> 01:56:56.722
Rupert Isaacson: it is, it is just
incredible to me that in countries

01:56:56.722 --> 01:57:00.952
as prosperous as our own, I'm sitting
here in Europe, you're sitting

01:57:00.952 --> 01:57:05.152
there in the USA, we are in the most
prosperous nations in the world.

01:57:06.352 --> 01:57:15.142
That this is not subsidized by
government is just, well, it's a

01:57:15.142 --> 01:57:16.942
poor show because we can afford it.

01:57:17.752 --> 01:57:18.142
Yeah.

01:57:18.442 --> 01:57:18.862
Yeah.

01:57:19.442 --> 01:57:21.452
I'm very, very glad to hear
that he got one though.

01:57:22.322 --> 01:57:22.472
Celisse Barrett: He did.

01:57:24.602 --> 01:57:28.652
Rupert Isaacson: And also to feel himself
standing must be so empowering too for,

01:57:28.682 --> 01:57:34.022
you know, big man and to, to, to regain
his, for anyone to stand, obviously,

01:57:34.022 --> 01:57:37.442
but to regain his power to some degree.

01:57:37.832 --> 01:57:39.092
Celisse Barrett: Yeah, absolutely.

01:57:40.142 --> 01:57:43.502
I mean, to be able to walk into a
grocery store and to be able to get the

01:57:43.952 --> 01:57:49.142
tomato soup off the top shelf instead of
having to ask somebody or to be able to

01:57:49.142 --> 01:57:51.332
talk, look at somebody eye level Yeah.

01:57:51.332 --> 01:57:53.132
And have a conversation with them.

01:57:53.642 --> 01:57:54.452
I mean, that's,

01:57:55.442 --> 01:57:57.122
Rupert Isaacson: well be
total of them that, yeah.

01:57:57.122 --> 01:57:57.782
Yeah.

01:57:58.907 --> 01:57:59.657
Celisse Barrett: We were there.

01:57:59.717 --> 01:58:02.117
The, his mom invited us the day he got it.

01:58:02.177 --> 01:58:05.087
They did a little party for him
and they presented him with it.

01:58:05.567 --> 01:58:06.627
And we played some music.

01:58:06.627 --> 01:58:08.577
And I remember dancing with
him for the first time.

01:58:08.847 --> 01:58:10.047
I was like, we can dance.

01:58:10.047 --> 01:58:10.767
Check it out.

01:58:10.857 --> 01:58:11.817
How cool is this?

01:58:12.297 --> 01:58:15.357
And the news came out and they
did this whole thing about it.

01:58:15.357 --> 01:58:18.047
And it was really, it was just fantastic.

01:58:18.047 --> 01:58:21.227
And to see him just light
up like a Christmas tree.

01:58:21.227 --> 01:58:21.287
Yeah.

01:58:21.647 --> 01:58:26.927
But I mean, you know, that wheelchair
didn't cost $65,000 to make

01:58:27.462 --> 01:58:28.967
Rupert Isaacson: No, no way.

01:58:28.967 --> 01:58:29.027
You

01:58:29.027 --> 01:58:29.687
Celisse Barrett: know, it didn't.

01:58:29.927 --> 01:58:30.497
No.

01:58:30.917 --> 01:58:34.097
And I'm like, why, why $65,000?

01:58:34.097 --> 01:58:35.987
That could better somebody's life.

01:58:36.407 --> 01:58:36.737
Rupert Isaacson: Yeah.

01:58:36.737 --> 01:58:37.607
Celisse Barrett: You're gonna charge them.

01:58:37.607 --> 01:58:41.507
I mean, they've already like, I
mean, this kid was on his way to

01:58:41.507 --> 01:58:45.257
going pro and heading, like colleges
were already recruiting him.

01:58:45.587 --> 01:58:48.707
And now his mom and his mom, he
was the last one, the youngest one.

01:58:49.067 --> 01:58:53.597
And now his mom, his senior year
of high school has to stop all of

01:58:53.597 --> 01:58:58.337
her life because her baby just got
hurt and now needs 24 hour care.

01:58:59.027 --> 01:58:59.357
Rupert Isaacson: Yeah.

01:58:59.747 --> 01:59:01.307
Celisse Barrett: Like,
that's, that's a hard hit.

01:59:01.997 --> 01:59:02.387
Rupert Isaacson: Yeah.

01:59:03.167 --> 01:59:07.847
Celisse Barrett: I mean, on everybody,
not just Tim, but the whole family.

01:59:07.967 --> 01:59:11.567
I mean, yeah, Tim just had his whole
life taken away just like that.

01:59:11.837 --> 01:59:14.837
And then now mom who thinks her son's
about to move out and go to college

01:59:14.837 --> 01:59:16.337
and have a family and wife of his own.

01:59:16.427 --> 01:59:19.217
Now all that's out the window.

01:59:19.217 --> 01:59:19.277
Yeah.

01:59:19.997 --> 01:59:25.577
I mean, so yeah, there's, there's
definitely something, I don't know.

01:59:26.642 --> 01:59:31.202
You just, you just wonder what's,
what the future holds for a lot of

01:59:31.202 --> 01:59:34.262
these people in these circumstances.

01:59:34.262 --> 01:59:38.282
Because we work with lots of programs
where a lot of the, we work with a

01:59:38.282 --> 01:59:44.087
program called the Dream Program, and
it's, they are all adults and a lot of

01:59:44.332 --> 01:59:46.912
the time they show up to our facility.

01:59:47.212 --> 01:59:51.772
And these adults are 40, 50 years
old and their parents are 80.

01:59:52.762 --> 01:59:53.062
Rupert Isaacson: Yeah.

01:59:53.122 --> 01:59:55.192
Celisse Barrett: And they're like,
we just, we're trying to create

01:59:55.192 --> 01:59:56.902
a network, a village for people.

01:59:57.172 --> 01:59:59.422
'cause when we pass away,
what are we gonna do?

02:00:00.292 --> 02:00:00.652
Rupert Isaacson: Yeah.

02:00:01.192 --> 02:00:03.972
Celisse Barrett: And you know, and
there's, there's just a lot of, a

02:00:03.972 --> 02:00:05.502
lot of things that need to change.

02:00:05.682 --> 02:00:07.332
I don't have the answers to all of that.

02:00:07.432 --> 02:00:10.912
But we try our best to help
bridge those gaps and be a, an

02:00:10.912 --> 02:00:13.222
oasis in a desert for those that

02:00:16.342 --> 02:00:17.932
I guess are kind of running dry.

02:00:17.962 --> 02:00:18.442
I don't know.

02:00:19.072 --> 02:00:21.712
But Tim, as far as Tim goes,
I know he is doing great.

02:00:21.712 --> 02:00:23.182
I haven't seen him in a couple years.

02:00:23.482 --> 02:00:25.902
But we talked to his mom not too long ago.

02:00:25.952 --> 02:00:29.302
She remarried to a great guy and he
is got a great support system now.

02:00:29.732 --> 02:00:31.352
And she's not having to
do it all on her own.

02:00:31.602 --> 02:00:31.632
Okay.

02:00:31.632 --> 02:00:33.042
That was a big thing for her.

02:00:33.222 --> 02:00:33.462
Yeah.

02:00:34.122 --> 02:00:34.512
I mean,

02:00:34.872 --> 02:00:35.022
Rupert Isaacson: good.

02:00:35.022 --> 02:00:35.202
You can

02:00:35.202 --> 02:00:36.372
Celisse Barrett: only
lift him for so long.

02:00:36.792 --> 02:00:39.102
I mean, he's still a full grown man, so,

02:00:39.852 --> 02:00:42.162
Rupert Isaacson: well, again, maybe he
can go into the horse training side.

02:00:42.162 --> 02:00:43.062
It's, it's interesting.

02:00:43.112 --> 02:00:48.262
My friend, henrik Bergoff and his wife,
giddy Bergoff, who run the amazing

02:00:48.262 --> 02:00:53.702
Horse Boy place at Green Care Farm in
central Germany and their son Julian,

02:00:53.702 --> 02:00:55.772
who's equally amazing in a wheelchair.

02:00:55.772 --> 02:00:57.212
We've taken him fox hunting.

02:00:57.892 --> 02:00:58.252
Celisse Barrett: Really?

02:00:58.492 --> 02:00:59.092
Rupert Isaacson: Yes.

02:00:59.277 --> 02:00:59.767
Awesome.

02:00:59.837 --> 02:01:01.217
Three years now.

02:01:01.247 --> 02:01:01.277
Okay.

02:01:02.327 --> 02:01:08.537
Spina bifida, big western south, and
yes, of course we're adapting it and

02:01:08.537 --> 02:01:14.747
working with the hunt to choreograph
it, you know, somewhat, but he's, he's

02:01:14.747 --> 02:01:18.227
crossing country and he's also trained.

02:01:18.257 --> 02:01:22.157
He can, he can train my horses
in pf in his wheelchair.

02:01:22.187 --> 02:01:22.247
Wow.

02:01:23.342 --> 02:01:24.202
Celisse Barrett: That's fabulous.

02:01:24.202 --> 02:01:24.442
And I

02:01:24.442 --> 02:01:25.817
Rupert Isaacson: think more and
more, that's kind of where we

02:01:25.817 --> 02:01:29.927
need to go as people get adult,
you know, to say, well come into

02:01:29.927 --> 02:01:31.337
the program and be a team member.

02:01:31.997 --> 02:01:33.497
No longer be a service user.

02:01:33.497 --> 02:01:33.857
Right.

02:01:34.097 --> 02:01:35.477
Be a service provider.

02:01:36.147 --> 02:01:39.547
You've reached that point Now here's
a question before we move to, because

02:01:39.547 --> 02:01:40.897
we're approaching the two hour mark.

02:01:41.137 --> 02:01:44.497
I just want to ask you a bit, you know,
to, to do what you do is predicated

02:01:44.497 --> 02:01:48.487
to some degree on people being able
to follow instruction, follow top down

02:01:48.487 --> 02:01:50.077
instruction with that kind of cognition.

02:01:50.347 --> 02:01:53.707
What do you do when you have, like,
when Rowan was very small, he,

02:01:53.767 --> 02:01:56.257
there's no way he could have followed
any kind of top down and strapping.

02:01:56.587 --> 02:01:58.147
What do you do in those cases?

02:01:59.167 --> 02:02:00.967
Go back to the back riding and such?

02:02:01.017 --> 02:02:05.097
Celisse Barrett: What we do in those cases
is we basically just follow their lead.

02:02:05.907 --> 02:02:05.997
Rupert Isaacson: Okay.

02:02:06.057 --> 02:02:06.387
And what

02:02:06.387 --> 02:02:07.677
Celisse Barrett: they enjoy
and what they wanna do.

02:02:07.677 --> 02:02:13.047
If all they enjoy doing is getting
on the horse and maybe just trotting

02:02:13.047 --> 02:02:16.947
around in the woods, and if I back ride
with them and they like that sensation,

02:02:17.037 --> 02:02:19.617
then we just kind of stop there.

02:02:19.797 --> 02:02:21.837
If that's where we're getting
progress, then we'll go to

02:02:21.837 --> 02:02:23.037
that point and then we mm-hmm.

02:02:23.517 --> 02:02:25.317
I don't push it further
than what they're Right.

02:02:25.317 --> 02:02:25.677
You're not a

02:02:25.677 --> 02:02:26.787
Rupert Isaacson: wedded
to the trick thing.

02:02:26.787 --> 02:02:27.117
Yeah.

02:02:27.177 --> 02:02:27.447
Yeah.

02:02:27.567 --> 02:02:27.717
Celisse Barrett: Sure.

02:02:27.777 --> 02:02:29.067
Yeah, absolutely.

02:02:29.247 --> 02:02:30.357
No, we do lots of things.

02:02:30.357 --> 02:02:34.077
We have a sensory, not right now, at our
new place, but we had a sensory trail in

02:02:34.077 --> 02:02:38.307
our woods where we would take them out
and we would draw on the trees with chalk.

02:02:38.377 --> 02:02:41.797
You would play hide and seek with the
hor on, on the horses or off the horses.

02:02:42.227 --> 02:02:45.677
It really just depended on
what the student wanted.

02:02:45.737 --> 02:02:48.142
One little girl that we
had, she loves, this is all

02:02:48.142 --> 02:02:49.702
Rupert Isaacson: dear to my
horse boy heart to hear this.

02:02:49.702 --> 02:02:49.902
Yeah.

02:02:49.907 --> 02:02:50.177
Yep.

02:02:51.047 --> 02:02:51.467
She loves

02:02:51.467 --> 02:02:52.127
Celisse Barrett: sign language.

02:02:52.307 --> 02:02:57.517
She, she understood words, but
she would not speak on her own.

02:02:57.787 --> 02:03:03.717
But once I taught her some sign language
then she, she jumped on board with that.

02:03:03.717 --> 02:03:09.007
And every time, like I, we had
this little snail statue on our

02:03:09.007 --> 02:03:12.007
trail and every time we had passed
the snail, she would sign snail

02:03:12.397 --> 02:03:12.427
Rupert Isaacson: okay.

02:03:12.427 --> 02:03:12.757
Or I would

02:03:12.757 --> 02:03:15.247
Celisse Barrett: say right or
left and give her the sign for it.

02:03:15.247 --> 02:03:17.857
And then she would tell me which
way she'd wanna go with her hands

02:03:18.247 --> 02:03:19.687
instead of having to verbalize it.

02:03:19.737 --> 02:03:20.337
And so.

02:03:21.387 --> 02:03:23.607
We, whatever they, whatever
they wanted to play.

02:03:23.607 --> 02:03:28.587
We had this game of with foam noodles
and one, these two twins that were

02:03:28.587 --> 02:03:31.647
autistic, they would come out and we
would play the telescope game and we

02:03:31.647 --> 02:03:34.767
put the foam noodles up to our eyeballs,
like telescopes, and we would try to

02:03:34.767 --> 02:03:37.077
find mom and dad through the telescope.

02:03:37.977 --> 02:03:39.837
And that was, that was what we did.

02:03:40.227 --> 02:03:43.647
And then we'd find them, we'd go and
we'd try to run mom and dad over.

02:03:43.857 --> 02:03:45.567
They want, they thought that
was the funniest thing, was

02:03:45.567 --> 02:03:46.797
to run them over on the horse.

02:03:47.502 --> 02:03:51.982
So, but we did so whatever, whatever
just made them want to be there.

02:03:52.042 --> 02:03:53.032
That's what we did with them.

02:03:53.032 --> 02:03:54.532
We tried to make it a complete yes.

02:03:54.532 --> 02:03:55.162
Environment.

02:03:55.162 --> 02:03:57.352
We tried to not make it
an environment of nos.

02:03:57.577 --> 02:03:57.997
Mm-hmm.

02:03:58.097 --> 02:03:59.417
Because they get told that enough.

02:04:00.047 --> 02:04:00.797
Rupert Isaacson: Absolutely.

02:04:00.857 --> 02:04:01.547
Absolutely.

02:04:01.787 --> 02:04:07.217
And yeah, I think for people who are
listening watches too, one really

02:04:07.217 --> 02:04:08.987
has to take this seriously, this yes.

02:04:08.987 --> 02:04:09.707
Environment.

02:04:09.707 --> 02:04:15.347
Because when you're dealing with
someone with autom, so many people say

02:04:15.347 --> 02:04:18.827
the word autism or work with autism,
don't even know what the word means.

02:04:19.007 --> 02:04:24.047
The word is the Greek word for, for the
self auto, like automatic moves by itself.

02:04:24.287 --> 02:04:25.937
Autom, selfism.

02:04:25.937 --> 02:04:27.137
So locked within the self.

02:04:27.137 --> 02:04:30.407
The difficulty is the relationship
with the exterior world.

02:04:30.407 --> 02:04:35.567
So there's not a massive
desire like there is between.

02:04:35.687 --> 02:04:39.227
So you or I who have more or
less the neurotypical brain.

02:04:39.587 --> 02:04:41.117
We are compulsive communicators.

02:04:41.117 --> 02:04:42.017
That's our species.

02:04:42.647 --> 02:04:43.367
This is.

02:04:43.997 --> 02:04:46.487
These are people within
our species who don't feel

02:04:46.487 --> 02:04:48.977
necessarily that same compulsion.

02:04:48.977 --> 02:04:56.177
So if somebody like Rowan, when he, my
son, when he was very small to speak

02:04:56.177 --> 02:05:01.307
or communicate directly, it was as
difficult as it for me to learn Cantonese.

02:05:01.337 --> 02:05:01.937
You know, something.

02:05:02.177 --> 02:05:07.907
So if you then, while I'm trying to
learn Cantonese, say no, so stop you

02:05:07.907 --> 02:05:11.897
know, well, I'm not gonna be very
motivated to keep going 'cause it's

02:05:11.897 --> 02:05:13.757
a schlep, it's a massive effort.

02:05:13.787 --> 02:05:16.127
You know, why would I
continue to make this effort?

02:05:16.127 --> 02:05:16.757
So, yeah.

02:05:16.757 --> 02:05:19.157
One of the things I really
appreciate about what you do is

02:05:19.157 --> 02:05:20.867
it is this environment of yes.

02:05:20.867 --> 02:05:25.577
And you absolutely set the environment
up so you don't have all the dangerous

02:05:25.577 --> 02:05:27.347
stuff that you would have to say no to.

02:05:27.557 --> 02:05:33.467
So, and then it's, it's, it's such
a, it's such a ridiculous irony

02:05:33.467 --> 02:05:36.887
that someone might sort of, from the
traditional path thing might look at

02:05:36.887 --> 02:05:38.387
you and say, oh, that's dangerous.

02:05:38.507 --> 02:05:43.967
Where in fact you take such care of
the safety to a level that's in the

02:05:43.967 --> 02:05:50.397
stratosphere compared to what's going
on at the average, you know, place

02:05:50.397 --> 02:05:52.227
and the level of professionalism.

02:05:52.227 --> 02:05:55.347
And yet there you are
having to justify it.

02:05:55.347 --> 02:05:59.517
But you create the absolute, you
know, your work is masterful, frankly.

02:05:59.877 --> 02:06:00.627
It's masterful.

02:06:00.687 --> 02:06:00.987
Celisse Barrett: Well, thank you.

02:06:01.077 --> 02:06:01.257
I,

02:06:01.257 --> 02:06:02.667
Rupert Isaacson: I, I take my hat off.

02:06:03.177 --> 02:06:04.737
You are one of my heroes.

02:06:04.837 --> 02:06:06.907
You and Jason, Beth
and Brooke, and Marley.

02:06:07.627 --> 02:06:09.907
And I still to this day, scratch my head.

02:06:10.822 --> 02:06:15.742
And when I watch you kind of create
this quantum world where what should

02:06:15.742 --> 02:06:17.272
not be able to happen happens.

02:06:18.232 --> 02:06:21.922
You know, at Horse Boy we obviously
train people to do what we do.

02:06:21.952 --> 02:06:24.352
There's horse boy method, there's
movement method, there's TAing.

02:06:24.352 --> 02:06:27.052
We have these different programs
to, to train people to do

02:06:27.052 --> 02:06:28.192
what you do is very difficult.

02:06:28.342 --> 02:06:34.132
Would you, do you have the desire to
sort of expand and train people in what

02:06:34.132 --> 02:06:35.992
you do and sort of create a methodology?

02:06:36.292 --> 02:06:42.322
Or are you content rather to be a,
sort of a flagship gold standard

02:06:42.322 --> 02:06:43.882
of showing what's possible?

02:06:44.152 --> 02:06:48.112
Because it takes, you know, so
much spec specific expertise

02:06:48.112 --> 02:06:49.672
to deliver what you deliver.

02:06:50.092 --> 02:06:53.332
And then in the, which case, where do
you want it to go and how can we help?

02:06:54.442 --> 02:06:56.332
Celisse Barrett: I would love to

02:06:58.582 --> 02:07:01.822
be able to bring this to other facilities.

02:07:02.092 --> 02:07:04.762
I think there is such a need for it.

02:07:04.762 --> 02:07:09.532
And once you could have a handful of
instructors that really understood how

02:07:09.532 --> 02:07:12.722
structured it was or how structured it is.

02:07:13.682 --> 02:07:13.712
Mm.

02:07:13.712 --> 02:07:18.362
They would not see, they wouldn't
see the chaos, but they would

02:07:18.362 --> 02:07:22.202
see the, I mean, even with chaos,
the name Equestrian Chaos, there

02:07:22.202 --> 02:07:24.482
is, there's an order to chaos.

02:07:24.482 --> 02:07:27.062
There's an order to the cosmos
and we don't under, just because

02:07:27.062 --> 02:07:29.042
you don't understand it doesn't
mean that it's not there.

02:07:29.042 --> 02:07:29.882
That it doesn't exist.

02:07:30.062 --> 02:07:30.332
Rupert Isaacson: Absolutely.

02:07:30.782 --> 02:07:34.142
Celisse Barrett: And so even though it
says Equestrian Chaos is the name, and

02:07:34.142 --> 02:07:35.762
people go, oh my gosh, what is that?

02:07:36.497 --> 02:07:41.897
It's kind of a play on words because
it really, yes, horses can be

02:07:41.897 --> 02:07:44.417
absolutely chaotic in a second, but

02:07:45.857 --> 02:07:47.567
Rupert Isaacson: there's also not
doing kinds of things that you do.

02:07:47.867 --> 02:07:49.037
No, absolutely.

02:07:49.127 --> 02:07:54.467
But, you know, theatrically, and I think
in terms of the minds of the service

02:07:54.467 --> 02:08:00.167
users, the clients who are coming to
you, this idea that you're giving them a

02:08:00.167 --> 02:08:07.337
part of the show, equestrian chaos with
the, the excitement, the passion, the

02:08:08.717 --> 02:08:13.487
dreamlike setting free that, that, okay.

02:08:13.487 --> 02:08:17.977
It's actually incredibly structured and,
and a detail like all, all performances

02:08:17.977 --> 02:08:22.717
are as you started with your flute and,
you know, but I think to call it that

02:08:22.717 --> 02:08:28.897
name is both incredibly brave because you
caught the disapproval of the disapproves.

02:08:29.197 --> 02:08:34.447
And at the same time it means that anyone
who's like overly therapized being told

02:08:34.447 --> 02:08:40.087
what to do every day, they just, that
name alone is gonna make you think, Ooh,

02:08:41.317 --> 02:08:43.687
that might be an experience worth having.

02:08:44.287 --> 02:08:45.997
I think I wanna go check out those people.

02:08:47.297 --> 02:08:49.632
So do you feel, do you
feel it's transferrable?

02:08:49.632 --> 02:08:54.132
Do you feel, you, are you working on a
methodology, for example, to train people?

02:08:54.132 --> 02:08:55.092
Could I get trained?

02:08:55.812 --> 02:08:56.442
Celisse Barrett: Absolutely.

02:08:57.012 --> 02:08:57.822
110%.

02:08:58.102 --> 02:09:02.062
And I think it, it has to start
with the instructors first.

02:09:02.582 --> 02:09:06.332
I can teach, I mean, I can teach this
to kids all day long, but until the

02:09:06.332 --> 02:09:10.712
instructors believe that they can even
do it, the buck stops right there and it

02:09:10.717 --> 02:09:11.612
comes with, but you've got to train 'em

02:09:11.612 --> 02:09:13.622
Rupert Isaacson: how to produce the
horse that can do it too, right?

02:09:13.622 --> 02:09:13.802
Sure,

02:09:14.072 --> 02:09:14.402
Celisse Barrett: yes.

02:09:14.462 --> 02:09:15.182
Yeah, absolutely.

02:09:15.432 --> 02:09:17.862
But you can start at a very basic level.

02:09:17.922 --> 02:09:22.272
I mean, you don't have to train
the horse to be able to accept

02:09:23.592 --> 02:09:25.242
double vaults in a tail drag.

02:09:25.642 --> 02:09:25.702
Yeah.

02:09:25.702 --> 02:09:26.482
Or under the belly.

02:09:26.482 --> 02:09:27.232
Or under the neck.

02:09:27.232 --> 02:09:32.402
I mean, you don't have to go into that
deep of, of, of, of training with therapy.

02:09:32.407 --> 02:09:33.207
But you a horse, yours,

02:09:33.207 --> 02:09:34.892
Rupert Isaacson: horse, you could
absolutely trust even if you're

02:09:34.892 --> 02:09:37.742
doing it static or to walk.

02:09:37.742 --> 02:09:38.042
Celisse Barrett: Sure.

02:09:38.402 --> 02:09:38.702
Yes.

02:09:38.822 --> 02:09:39.002
Yeah.

02:09:39.342 --> 02:09:43.332
Even if you had a barrel, I mean, you
could do it on a, on, on a barrel.

02:09:44.022 --> 02:09:45.042
Rupert Isaacson: Ah, you
could do it on a barrel.

02:09:45.042 --> 02:09:45.822
That is so true.

02:09:45.822 --> 02:09:47.022
Yeah, absolutely.

02:09:47.022 --> 02:09:48.167
I mean, on a vaulting barrel.

02:09:48.822 --> 02:09:49.062
Celisse Barrett: Yeah.

02:09:49.062 --> 02:09:51.522
Until you finesse your, until
you finesse it yourself.

02:09:51.572 --> 02:09:55.542
But yes, we actually have a program
that we started to write years ago and

02:09:55.542 --> 02:10:00.202
it's still sitting in my Google Drive
folder that we had a step-by-step thing.

02:10:00.202 --> 02:10:01.072
You've got no time to develop it.

02:10:01.077 --> 02:10:01.357
Rupert Isaacson: Yeah,

02:10:01.702 --> 02:10:01.882
Celisse Barrett: yeah.

02:10:01.882 --> 02:10:06.142
We had names for every type of Mount
dismount that our, and our students,

02:10:06.352 --> 02:10:09.442
we followed them, whatever, however
they got on the horse, we put a name

02:10:09.442 --> 02:10:11.482
for it, and that's what we called it.

02:10:11.902 --> 02:10:14.542
And they actually helped us write
the program without even knowing it.

02:10:14.542 --> 02:10:21.442
And and I, I've kind of struggled
on, I try, I did a couple lectures on

02:10:21.442 --> 02:10:23.422
this program a couple years ago and.

02:10:25.987 --> 02:10:33.037
When you say circus, it almost puts a
halt on people that are older or older

02:10:33.037 --> 02:10:36.427
trainers that want to maybe learn it
because they're like circus trick riding.

02:10:36.427 --> 02:10:36.907
Whoa.

02:10:37.087 --> 02:10:39.877
That's, that's, I, I can't do that.

02:10:40.057 --> 02:10:40.117
Yeah.

02:10:40.117 --> 02:10:43.087
And immediately there's an instant
mental block and I'm like, no, that's,

02:10:43.087 --> 02:10:47.707
that's not what I'm, no, you don't
have to be a circus performer to do

02:10:47.797 --> 02:10:50.827
what I'm trying to share with you guys.

02:10:50.827 --> 02:10:52.837
Like, and you don't have to
have a circus horse to do this.

02:10:53.107 --> 02:10:54.577
You just have to have an open mind.

02:10:54.637 --> 02:10:55.207
That is it.

02:10:55.357 --> 02:10:55.807
Period.

02:10:56.267 --> 02:11:00.827
And so now I've toyed around with
changing it to maybe let's calling it

02:11:00.827 --> 02:11:03.017
a performing arts therapeutic program.

02:11:03.017 --> 02:11:03.317
I was gonna say,

02:11:03.317 --> 02:11:06.257
Rupert Isaacson: as soon as you say
like, circus arts or something, or as

02:11:06.257 --> 02:11:09.527
you say performance, it changes, it
changes the perception, doesn't it?

02:11:09.527 --> 02:11:09.707
Yeah.

02:11:09.767 --> 02:11:10.187
Celisse Barrett: Correct.

02:11:10.517 --> 02:11:15.107
And I think a performing arts program
would be more would be more accepting than

02:11:15.167 --> 02:11:17.237
saying circus, even though it's, well, you

02:11:17.237 --> 02:11:20.327
Rupert Isaacson: know, there's it,
this is a fortuitous bit of timing

02:11:20.327 --> 02:11:24.557
because I'm currently in conversation
with a, an amazing theater group in

02:11:24.557 --> 02:11:30.227
London called Chicken Shed Who, 'cause
it started in a chicken shed and it's

02:11:30.227 --> 02:11:31.307
now really this big, big theater.

02:11:31.457 --> 02:11:31.997
Yeah, yeah.

02:11:31.997 --> 02:11:34.697
They, they, they were given like a
shed, which had been a chicken shed.

02:11:34.817 --> 02:11:37.837
So it had the feathers, you know,
on somebody's, you know, farm.

02:11:38.077 --> 02:11:39.037
And that's where they began.

02:11:39.277 --> 02:11:40.627
And it's a special needs theater group.

02:11:40.657 --> 02:11:44.497
They're at the point now where they
actually run degree programs in.

02:11:44.937 --> 02:11:48.657
The performing arts for special needs
and through special needs through

02:11:48.807 --> 02:11:51.807
London, through universities, and
I think it's Middlesex University

02:11:51.807 --> 02:11:54.387
and they've kind of grown, grown,
grown, grown, grown like this.

02:11:54.387 --> 02:11:59.127
And we are you remember we had talked
ages ago and we still should be talking

02:11:59.127 --> 02:12:03.957
about, but adapting the horse boy
for a, a show with equestrian chaos

02:12:03.957 --> 02:12:05.517
and we need to pick this up again.

02:12:05.877 --> 02:12:07.527
And we are doing the same thing with them.

02:12:08.397 --> 02:12:11.517
And because they're not
riders, they're not.

02:12:12.147 --> 02:12:14.907
And a lot of the performers
are also special needs.

02:12:15.177 --> 02:12:19.347
So I wanted them to take the story
and see what they do with it.

02:12:19.407 --> 02:12:23.527
And also have Roan be, you know,
obviously a voice in this and a producer

02:12:23.527 --> 02:12:26.467
and a narrator and you know, a writer.

02:12:26.587 --> 02:12:30.607
But these people are going to need,
when, when you said vaulting barrels

02:12:30.787 --> 02:12:32.677
and just immediately thought, oh yes.

02:12:33.697 --> 02:12:42.217
In the show, in a theater in London,
you could have people riding and trick

02:12:42.217 --> 02:12:49.597
riding on barrels that are moving
to some degree and doing that thing.

02:12:49.597 --> 02:12:52.537
And we would need someone who knows how
to teach and we would need a consultant.

02:12:52.717 --> 02:12:56.767
And I think that person
might be Sice Barrett.

02:12:57.547 --> 02:12:58.352
Celisse Barrett: Oh, I know about that.

02:12:58.352 --> 02:12:58.672
What do you think?

02:12:58.807 --> 02:12:59.137
I know her.

02:12:59.857 --> 02:13:00.097
Yeah.

02:13:00.097 --> 02:13:00.432
Do you know her?

02:13:00.432 --> 02:13:00.712
That sounds great.

02:13:01.357 --> 02:13:02.322
Rupert Isaacson: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

02:13:03.157 --> 02:13:03.817
Celisse Barrett: We've done that.

02:13:03.817 --> 02:13:08.377
So when we teach, we also teach adaptive
archery since the archery has taken off.

02:13:08.857 --> 02:13:12.817
And the one thing we do is we
put, we actually strap barrels

02:13:12.817 --> 02:13:15.307
to a trailer, a flatbed trailer.

02:13:15.817 --> 02:13:20.467
And when they're learning how to load
the arrow in motion before putting

02:13:20.467 --> 02:13:25.037
on the horse and wasting the horse's
energy and theirs we hook it up to

02:13:25.037 --> 02:13:28.192
our car and we drive around the arena
and it's like a, that's a good idea.

02:13:28.197 --> 02:13:30.257
Can line up like a dang
rollercoaster ride.

02:13:30.257 --> 02:13:32.237
They're like me next, me next.

02:13:32.477 --> 02:13:32.567
Rupert Isaacson: Yes.

02:13:32.567 --> 02:13:32.752
I would do it.

02:13:33.912 --> 02:13:35.027
Celisse Barrett: I, oh, I totally do.

02:13:35.027 --> 02:13:36.347
I love it when we hook up the barrels.

02:13:36.627 --> 02:13:38.697
But yeah, we practice
loading in motion that way.

02:13:38.977 --> 02:13:39.107
Rupert Isaacson: Okay.

02:13:39.287 --> 02:13:41.912
Celisse Barrett: And yeah, put put a,
you could put a vaulting barrel easy

02:13:41.912 --> 02:13:46.172
on some wheels and make it a whole
theatrical thing and have people pull

02:13:46.172 --> 02:13:50.072
it through the stage and while doing
different tricks and things on the horse.

02:13:50.102 --> 02:13:50.432
Oh yeah.

02:13:50.432 --> 02:13:51.782
You could, you could totally do that.

02:13:52.712 --> 02:13:53.042
Rupert Isaacson: All right.

02:13:53.047 --> 02:13:57.512
That's, so I think, I think we need
to meet in London and workshop this.

02:13:58.292 --> 02:13:58.682
Celisse Barrett: Perfect.

02:13:58.782 --> 02:13:59.322
Rupert Isaacson: Yeah.

02:14:00.042 --> 02:14:00.312
Celisse Barrett: Yes.

02:14:00.312 --> 02:14:00.432
You

02:14:00.432 --> 02:14:01.152
Rupert Isaacson: willing to come?

02:14:02.112 --> 02:14:03.222
Celisse Barrett: Let's do
it when you wanna do it.

02:14:03.222 --> 02:14:03.402
Okay.

02:14:03.822 --> 02:14:04.302
Rupert Isaacson: Okay.

02:14:04.762 --> 02:14:10.172
It'll be this coming year and if
you can come up with your sort

02:14:10.172 --> 02:14:12.212
of level one entry training.

02:14:12.302 --> 02:14:12.332
Okay.

02:14:13.442 --> 02:14:14.462
For sort of points.

02:14:14.462 --> 02:14:15.572
I will, I will take it.

02:14:15.752 --> 02:14:20.352
You know, and I think most of our re most
of our viewers and listeners would too.

02:14:20.652 --> 02:14:21.492
So please.

02:14:21.492 --> 02:14:25.092
So we're all like, okay, when are we all
gonna do our equestrian chaos workshop?

02:14:25.672 --> 02:14:28.702
And you now have a new facility.

02:14:28.702 --> 02:14:32.092
I know you guys travel, of course, a
lot with the show, but you, you have

02:14:32.092 --> 02:14:38.272
a new facility in Mississippi, sort
of close to New Orleans, um right.

02:14:38.272 --> 02:14:40.552
It's sort of not far over the state line.

02:14:40.552 --> 02:14:40.612
We're

02:14:40.612 --> 02:14:42.622
Celisse Barrett: about two
hours from New Orleans.

02:14:42.672 --> 02:14:42.822
Right.

02:14:42.822 --> 02:14:43.977
We're 20, yeah.

02:14:44.172 --> 02:14:46.782
24 miles from the mobile state line.

02:14:46.782 --> 02:14:47.772
We're right on the state line.

02:14:48.132 --> 02:14:48.462
Rupert Isaacson: Right.

02:14:48.462 --> 02:14:49.062
So you are, you are.

02:14:49.062 --> 02:14:49.932
It's, it's, you know, yeah.

02:14:49.992 --> 02:14:50.832
It's, it's doable.

02:14:50.832 --> 02:14:53.742
So I think a lot of people would also love
to come out and check out your program.

02:14:54.552 --> 02:14:56.022
How do we support you?

02:14:56.672 --> 02:14:58.292
How do people donate to you?

02:14:58.592 --> 02:15:00.992
How do people come to you
to be working students?

02:15:01.262 --> 02:15:02.852
Just give us all the coordinates.

02:15:03.602 --> 02:15:06.992
Celisse Barrett: So right now our
website is equestrian chaos.com.

02:15:07.272 --> 02:15:11.202
There is a my email directly on
there, if someone wants to contact

02:15:11.202 --> 02:15:13.062
me about donating something specific.

02:15:13.452 --> 02:15:16.392
We are literally rebuilding
from the ground up.

02:15:16.872 --> 02:15:21.792
When we moved to this new facility,
the facility was, we weren't

02:15:21.792 --> 02:15:23.652
expecting to have to move so quickly.

02:15:23.712 --> 02:15:27.132
We were renting the other facility we
were at for 14 years and we had three

02:15:27.132 --> 02:15:30.852
months to move everything to find a
place to close on it, move the barn.

02:15:31.242 --> 02:15:34.132
So we are currently getting.

02:15:35.392 --> 02:15:39.922
Electricity run to the back 14
acres that we have that has no

02:15:39.922 --> 02:15:43.642
electric or water right now that's
actually happening as we speak.

02:15:44.062 --> 02:15:49.582
And the next step will be to build out
our arena the way we need to actually

02:15:49.582 --> 02:15:51.417
have it a professional arena that we need.

02:15:51.422 --> 02:15:51.742
We would

02:15:51.742 --> 02:15:54.402
Rupert Isaacson: love to have
a an aerial support system.

02:15:55.002 --> 02:15:56.412
Celisse Barrett: Oh my gosh, yes.

02:15:56.472 --> 02:15:57.432
Rupert Isaacson: That travels with people.

02:15:57.582 --> 02:15:58.812
What does that cost to put in?

02:15:59.772 --> 02:16:02.142
Celisse Barrett: That would be a,
that's a million dollar question.

02:16:02.242 --> 02:16:03.982
I don't know, to be perfectly honest.

02:16:03.982 --> 02:16:08.242
I know it's gonna cost, I would, I mean,
I would have to guess my first thought

02:16:08.242 --> 02:16:12.957
is anywhere between 25 to $50,000 to
put something like that in so much.

02:16:12.957 --> 02:16:13.637
So that's very doable.

02:16:13.637 --> 02:16:18.352
It may not, it, I, I mean, nowadays
I feel like it's definitely doable.

02:16:18.402 --> 02:16:23.292
I've never actually researched
it further than just looking

02:16:23.292 --> 02:16:26.167
at how it is set up, cost up.

02:16:26.232 --> 02:16:27.687
Oh, that would be great
to do if we could do that.

02:16:27.687 --> 02:16:28.062
And if you can do that,

02:16:28.062 --> 02:16:32.652
Rupert Isaacson: we'll do a, we'll do
a GoFundMe through Horse Boy to help

02:16:32.652 --> 02:16:34.422
you raise money for that, because

02:16:34.482 --> 02:16:35.622
Celisse Barrett: that would be phenomenal.

02:16:35.982 --> 02:16:39.492
Rupert Isaacson: I mean, I, I, I can't,
there's just no argument that that's

02:16:39.492 --> 02:16:43.187
gonna massively improve quality of life.

02:16:43.187 --> 02:16:46.272
And if you, and if you are also
training people, I think, in the

02:16:46.272 --> 02:16:51.012
circus arts and to be prac equine
practitioners or therapeutic

02:16:51.012 --> 02:16:54.402
practitioners within this sphere.

02:16:55.812 --> 02:16:58.332
They're gonna need to also go
through a certain amount of training

02:16:58.332 --> 02:17:02.082
that yes, these types of harnesses
would be really useful for.

02:17:02.082 --> 02:17:05.052
So we would get behind that.

02:17:05.842 --> 02:17:05.962
And

02:17:05.962 --> 02:17:07.852
Celisse Barrett: there's so many
people that could benefit from it.

02:17:07.972 --> 02:17:10.582
I mean, not just from the prac,
I mean, even the practitioners,

02:17:10.582 --> 02:17:11.962
nobody wants to fall and get hurt.

02:17:11.962 --> 02:17:12.742
I understand that.

02:17:12.742 --> 02:17:13.672
110%.

02:17:13.672 --> 02:17:16.222
I'm on that team 110%.

02:17:16.222 --> 02:17:18.682
And I don't want anyone falling and
getting hurt if they don't have to.

02:17:18.682 --> 02:17:23.422
And the rehab benefits, like,
yeah, I taught this woman into her

02:17:23.422 --> 02:17:26.302
seventies and there are so many times

02:17:26.782 --> 02:17:26.932
Rupert Isaacson: Yes.

02:17:26.932 --> 02:17:27.202
Where I

02:17:27.202 --> 02:17:29.842
Celisse Barrett: wish I just
had a har, a safety harness for

02:17:29.842 --> 02:17:31.647
her because her anxiety Yeah.

02:17:31.647 --> 02:17:34.282
Rupert Isaacson: I could totally see
this with people who've had suffer

02:17:34.282 --> 02:17:36.562
strokes, people who aren't so mobile.

02:17:37.612 --> 02:17:38.032
Yes.

02:17:38.032 --> 02:17:38.872
I mean, gosh.

02:17:39.442 --> 02:17:41.392
Celisse Barrett: And they could
gain it back without having any

02:17:41.392 --> 02:17:43.552
fear and without any risk of falls.

02:17:43.732 --> 02:17:46.462
Oh, I mean, that, that would be
you, you'd change the whole game.

02:17:47.032 --> 02:17:47.872
Rupert Isaacson: Yeah, it would.

02:17:47.877 --> 02:17:51.262
So yeah, I, that's my
So what K would do it?

02:17:52.372 --> 02:17:53.157
Well, let's, let's say what?

02:17:53.162 --> 02:17:54.172
Let's get that money.

02:17:54.202 --> 02:17:55.162
Let's get that money.

02:17:55.282 --> 02:17:55.342
Yeah.

02:17:56.032 --> 02:17:59.402
And by the way, listeners and
viewers they are a nonprofit.

02:18:00.572 --> 02:18:01.142
Correct?

02:18:01.232 --> 02:18:02.102
You are a nonprofit.

02:18:02.107 --> 02:18:02.587
Yes, we're a nonprofit.

02:18:02.592 --> 02:18:02.702
Yes.

02:18:02.702 --> 02:18:09.392
So you, you can donate tax deductible
and you should give Sise money now.

02:18:09.822 --> 02:18:12.822
Write to her, go to her
website, equestrian chaos.com.

02:18:13.482 --> 02:18:15.582
Do you have a donate button on there?

02:18:15.762 --> 02:18:15.942
Yes.

02:18:15.942 --> 02:18:16.812
Do you have We do.

02:18:17.322 --> 02:18:18.582
Okay on the website.

02:18:18.587 --> 02:18:20.592
Please go to equestrian chaos.com

02:18:20.802 --> 02:18:23.412
and hit the donate button and send.

02:18:24.192 --> 02:18:27.162
Money so that they can do more.

02:18:27.312 --> 02:18:27.612
Please.

02:18:27.612 --> 02:18:34.367
I'm asking you as Rupert Auntie Rupert
is, you know, making this request.

02:18:34.367 --> 02:18:34.632
Auntie Rupert.

02:18:35.532 --> 02:18:36.042
All right.

02:18:36.642 --> 02:18:40.492
Listen Sise, this has
been as always a delight.

02:18:40.492 --> 02:18:44.482
It's always a delight to talk to you
and to Jason, and to Brooke and to Mar.

02:18:45.292 --> 02:18:49.342
Let's talk further about these projects.

02:18:49.582 --> 02:18:49.702
Yes.

02:18:49.802 --> 02:18:52.822
And I'd like you to come
back on the show, Okay.

02:18:53.362 --> 02:18:56.152
You know, in a little while and tell
us, you know, how you're growing.

02:18:56.662 --> 02:19:01.282
'cause I, I think we all kind of want
more equestrian chaos in our lives.

02:19:01.702 --> 02:19:02.062
Yeah.

02:19:02.392 --> 02:19:04.162
Celisse Barrett: Everyone needs
equestrian chaos in their lives.

02:19:04.162 --> 02:19:05.032
Rupert Isaacson: Everyone
needs, whether it's my

02:19:05.032 --> 02:19:06.532
Celisse Barrett: chaos or their
own, but they all need it.

02:19:06.652 --> 02:19:07.312
It's good for 'em.

02:19:08.582 --> 02:19:10.622
Rupert Isaacson: I was building
cross country jumps today on the

02:19:10.622 --> 02:19:15.497
mountain behind our farm and going
around them and enjoying my equest.

02:19:18.512 --> 02:19:22.652
And whether it's happening at the
level that Tim was doing it or at

02:19:22.652 --> 02:19:26.792
the kind of extreme level that Rocky
was doing it, you know what, what

02:19:26.792 --> 02:19:32.882
occurred to me about what Tim and Rocky
were doing in your stories is I know

02:19:32.882 --> 02:19:36.182
many, many, many able bodied writers,
you've never done anything like that.

02:19:38.552 --> 02:19:40.802
Celisse Barrett: That was
really the inspiration behind

02:19:40.802 --> 02:19:42.272
the whole show when I wrote it.

02:19:42.752 --> 02:19:43.802
And it really wasn't.

02:19:44.942 --> 02:19:46.142
It was for them.

02:19:46.742 --> 02:19:49.532
But it wasn't for them,
it was for the audience.

02:19:50.162 --> 02:19:50.282
Rupert Isaacson: Yeah.

02:19:50.282 --> 02:19:50.702
Because I,

02:19:50.882 --> 02:19:55.052
Celisse Barrett: I got tired of
hearing, oh, I can't do this, or

02:19:55.052 --> 02:19:58.862
I'm too old, or, oh, I, there's
no way I could ever do that.

02:19:58.862 --> 02:20:03.152
And all of a sudden you just hear
immediate defeat out of people's mouths.

02:20:03.662 --> 02:20:04.082
Rupert Isaacson: Yeah.

02:20:04.442 --> 02:20:08.912
Celisse Barrett: And we're
human, like humans are amazing

02:20:09.482 --> 02:20:09.812
Rupert Isaacson: creature.

02:20:09.812 --> 02:20:09.872
Yeah.

02:20:09.872 --> 02:20:11.102
With the most adaptable species.

02:20:11.462 --> 02:20:17.347
Celisse Barrett: We adapt, we study, we
can, we can imitate, we can, I mean, yeah,

02:20:17.522 --> 02:20:21.782
if you could put all of our abilities into
one human, I mean, if you could believe

02:20:21.782 --> 02:20:24.572
that, you could do, I mean, there's
people that are blind that echo locate.

02:20:25.202 --> 02:20:25.502
Rupert Isaacson: Yeah.

02:20:25.532 --> 02:20:30.362
Celisse Barrett: So we have the
ability to be our own superheroes,

02:20:30.902 --> 02:20:33.542
but you have to believe that it
has to come from somewhere first.

02:20:33.542 --> 02:20:34.922
And it ha it starts with believing.

02:20:35.522 --> 02:20:39.302
And so the whole idea behind equestrian
chaos was to take our audience on

02:20:39.302 --> 02:20:43.862
this emotional rollercoaster of
all these different wow factors

02:20:43.862 --> 02:20:50.552
from extreme stunts to extreme
impossibilities becoming possibilities.

02:20:50.552 --> 02:20:58.262
Like watching people like Tim and Rock and
Sarah in the show who, I mean Sarah, she

02:20:58.262 --> 02:21:00.362
only wanted to be looked at as an equal.

02:21:00.842 --> 02:21:04.612
She's now, and she wrote that poem
and she wrote Romeo in the show.

02:21:04.882 --> 02:21:07.882
And she was the one that actually
did pretty, she did really well with

02:21:07.882 --> 02:21:09.482
the Mounted archery during COVID.

02:21:09.972 --> 02:21:13.392
But she's a pro, she's now
a professor at a university.

02:21:14.592 --> 02:21:17.712
And the professor who writes
Grant, she helps me write grants.

02:21:17.712 --> 02:21:19.572
She's a brilliant brain.

02:21:19.962 --> 02:21:24.422
And I mean, I call her to re
to read some of my grants and

02:21:24.422 --> 02:21:26.192
she'll, she'll refine them.

02:21:26.192 --> 02:21:26.517
So she really

02:21:26.517 --> 02:21:28.172
Rupert Isaacson: has, she
really has become a team member.

02:21:28.772 --> 02:21:29.222
Celisse Barrett: Oh yeah.

02:21:29.372 --> 02:21:30.212
She's phenomenal.

02:21:30.542 --> 02:21:33.272
And then now she calls me because
she called me a couple weeks ago

02:21:33.272 --> 02:21:37.082
wanting to know how to adapt her
class because she had a few people

02:21:37.082 --> 02:21:38.402
with special needs in her class.

02:21:38.402 --> 02:21:39.812
And she's like, all
right, I need your advice.

02:21:39.812 --> 02:21:40.472
I'm like, whoa.

02:21:40.562 --> 02:21:43.442
The doctor's coming to me for
advice because she's working on her

02:21:43.442 --> 02:21:46.922
doctorate now, and I've just been so
humbled by And what was her special

02:21:46.922 --> 02:21:47.222
Rupert Isaacson: need?

02:21:47.832 --> 02:21:48.792
Celisse Barrett: She has cerebral palsy.

02:21:49.332 --> 02:21:49.542
Rupert Isaacson: Okay.

02:21:50.172 --> 02:21:51.162
Celisse Barrett: Or has cerebral palsy.

02:21:51.792 --> 02:21:54.432
And her big thing was in the
show, we would dismount her

02:21:54.432 --> 02:21:55.992
in front of the audience.

02:21:55.992 --> 02:21:58.872
She would come out riding on the horse,
and then she would dismount off of

02:21:58.872 --> 02:22:00.792
Romeo and we would bring her, her canes.

02:22:00.792 --> 02:22:02.202
And nobody knew that she couldn't walk.

02:22:02.352 --> 02:22:02.562
That's right.

02:22:03.552 --> 02:22:05.322
And that was, that was her statement.

02:22:05.322 --> 02:22:06.402
She asked to do that.

02:22:07.632 --> 02:22:08.652
Rupert Isaacson: Do
you remember her phone?

02:22:10.252 --> 02:22:11.242
Celisse Barrett: I remember parts of it.

02:22:11.462 --> 02:22:14.842
It's actually on our I believe it's on our
website or on our YouTube video, but it

02:22:15.502 --> 02:22:18.562
Rupert Isaacson: What is the part
that springs to mind the fragment that

02:22:23.152 --> 02:22:24.142
Celisse Barrett: the last line.

02:22:24.802 --> 02:22:25.342
Rupert Isaacson: Okay.

02:22:25.932 --> 02:22:26.712
Celisse Barrett: In flight.

02:22:26.862 --> 02:22:27.612
She is free

02:22:28.482 --> 02:22:29.292
Rupert Isaacson: in flight.

02:22:30.162 --> 02:22:30.492
Cheers.

02:22:30.582 --> 02:22:31.032
Free.

02:22:31.542 --> 02:22:31.752
Celisse Barrett: Yeah.

02:22:33.042 --> 02:22:33.672
Rupert Isaacson: In flight.

02:22:33.697 --> 02:22:34.117
Cheers.

02:22:34.122 --> 02:22:34.572
Free.

02:22:35.712 --> 02:22:37.032
Celisse Barrett: That's the
very last line of her poem.

02:22:37.377 --> 02:22:41.607
Rupert Isaacson: If I could think
of anything that epitomizes you

02:22:41.607 --> 02:22:44.667
and what you do, it's in flight.

02:22:44.847 --> 02:22:51.657
She is free and by extension,
freeing everybody else who

02:22:51.657 --> 02:22:52.917
comes into contact with you.

02:22:53.637 --> 02:22:58.227
You know, I think that's
the perfect note to end on.

02:22:59.037 --> 02:22:59.547
Celisse Barrett: I agree.

02:22:59.647 --> 02:23:00.877
Rupert Isaacson: Sise, it's been an honor.

02:23:01.067 --> 02:23:02.237
Thank you so much.

02:23:03.077 --> 02:23:03.737
Celisse Barrett: Likewise.

02:23:04.217 --> 02:23:05.527
Rupert Isaacson: And let's keep talking.

02:23:06.487 --> 02:23:07.027
Celisse Barrett: Sounds good.

02:23:07.297 --> 02:23:08.017
Talk about London.

02:23:08.017 --> 02:23:08.797
I'm looking forward to it.

02:23:09.187 --> 02:23:10.717
Rupert Isaacson: Well,
all right, my friend.

02:23:11.317 --> 02:23:11.647
Celisse Barrett: All right.

02:23:11.882 --> 02:23:12.372
Rupert Isaacson: Talk soon.

02:23:12.482 --> 02:23:13.052
Till next time.

02:23:13.752 --> 02:23:14.012
All right.

02:23:14.042 --> 02:23:14.647
Love to work.

02:23:15.427 --> 02:23:15.847
Bye-Bye.

02:23:16.352 --> 02:23:16.572
Celisse Barrett: Bye.

02:23:16.589 --> 02:23:19.709
Rupert Isaacson: I hope you enjoyed
today's conversation as much as I did.

02:23:20.249 --> 02:23:25.149
If you like what we're doing here,
please do like, subscribe, tell a friend.

02:23:25.159 --> 02:23:29.329
It so helps us to get this valuable
work done and the message of

02:23:29.329 --> 02:23:31.209
Equine Assisted Stuff out there.

02:23:31.359 --> 02:23:34.439
And if you're interested in more
conversations, you might want to check

02:23:34.449 --> 02:23:37.129
out I'll live free ride free podcast.

02:23:37.519 --> 02:23:42.279
And if you'd like to support the
podcasts, please go to rupertisakson.

02:23:42.329 --> 02:23:44.819
com and click on the Patreon link.

02:23:45.519 --> 02:23:49.039
If you're a professional in the equine
assisted field or considering a career

02:23:49.389 --> 02:23:52.899
in the equine assisted field, you
might want to check out our three

02:23:52.909 --> 02:23:58.669
certification programs, horseboy
method, movement method, and taquin.

02:23:58.754 --> 02:24:00.224
Equine integration.

02:24:00.494 --> 02:24:05.444
You can find all of those over
on new Trails learning.com.

02:24:05.644 --> 02:24:09.034
And finally, if you want to check
out our cool rock and roll themed

02:24:09.034 --> 02:24:12.054
merch back on rupert isaacson.com,

02:24:12.384 --> 02:24:13.524
please click on Shop.

02:24:13.584 --> 02:24:15.264
You'll find all kinds
of fun goodies there.

02:24:15.444 --> 02:24:20.834
And if you're looking for a way to spend
time until the next podcast, you might

02:24:20.834 --> 02:24:24.944
want to consider reading the books that
kicked all this off The Horse Boy, the

02:24:24.944 --> 02:24:27.754
Long Ride Home and The Healing Land.

02:24:28.024 --> 02:24:29.644
So see you next time on Equine Assistant.

02:24:29.764 --> 02:24:30.094
world.

02:24:30.354 --> 02:24:31.544
Join us for the adventure.