Rachel  (00:00:06):
Welcome to Sober Banter.

Rachel  (00:00:07):
It's a girl's banter because Colin is not here.

Rachel  (00:00:10):
We're going to go throwback and open with an icebreaker.

Rachel  (00:00:14):
And Allison, I guess you have one that you can start to kick off.

Julie (00:00:18):
I do.

Julie (00:00:18):
Like what is the one thing in your kitchen that you can't live without right now?

Julie (00:00:24):
Because every meal that I make has to be in my air fryer.

Julie (00:00:29):
And it's like,

Julie (00:00:31):
it's gotten to the point where my family's like,

Julie (00:00:33):
are you going to ever use the stove?

Julie (00:00:35):
So what are you doing in your kitchen?

Julie (00:00:40):
Julie, you go first.

Allison (00:00:42):
I guess like a big pot because I like to make a soup that will last me for a few

Allison (00:00:49):
days because then I don't have to think about what I'm going to cook for the next

Allison (00:00:54):
couple of days.

Allison (00:00:54):
Is it like I'm living off of leftovers?

Rachel  (00:00:58):
Yeah.

Rachel  (00:00:59):
Yeah.

Rachel  (00:00:59):
Like spaghetti.

Rachel  (00:01:00):
Yeah.

Rachel  (00:01:00):
My spaghetti pot.

Rachel  (00:01:01):
That's pretty much...

Rachel  (00:01:03):
That would be my,

Rachel  (00:01:05):
I mean,

Rachel  (00:01:05):
I used to be so into cooking in early sobriety and then the autoimmune,

Rachel  (00:01:11):
I just,

Rachel  (00:01:11):
it's been,

Rachel  (00:01:11):
I want easy and I don't want to fight with my five-year-old.

Rachel  (00:01:17):
So I feel like embarrassed that I'm like, no, I am not.

Rachel  (00:01:22):
And I used to do the pressure cooker when I did Whole30,

Rachel  (00:01:26):
which is I did before,

Rachel  (00:01:28):
right before I got sober.

Rachel  (00:01:30):
I was so scared of the pressure cooker.

Rachel  (00:01:32):
Like I had the, and I love it.

Rachel  (00:01:35):
The food that comes out of it is amazing.

Allison (00:01:37):
Yeah.

Allison (00:01:37):
Are you afraid it's going to go off like a bomb in your kitchen?

Rachel  (00:01:39):
I used a spatula to use to twist the little thing.

Rachel  (00:01:44):
And I'm like, one, two, three, run away.

Rachel  (00:01:47):
And it's like, shh.

Rachel  (00:01:47):
And I'm like, oh God, don't burn the cabinets.

Rachel  (00:01:49):
And it is a whole ordeal.

Rachel  (00:01:51):
I can barely pop a can of biscuits without like...

Rachel  (00:01:56):
I'm just, I'm sad.

Rachel  (00:02:00):
I feel that.

Rachel  (00:02:01):
I like fast,

Rachel  (00:02:03):
edible,

Rachel  (00:02:03):
apples,

Rachel  (00:02:04):
grapes,

Rachel  (00:02:05):
anything that doesn't require a lot of go bars,

Rachel  (00:02:08):
protein bars,

Rachel  (00:02:09):
love them.

Rachel  (00:02:11):
In the pantry.

Rachel  (00:02:12):
So I thought this might be a cool time and space to talking about what it's like being a

Rachel  (00:02:20):
So I thought you guys might have some insights or some things you might want to share.

Rachel  (00:02:27):
Maybe a thing you might want your readers to know.

Julie (00:02:31):
From the jump,

Julie (00:02:32):
as far as sobriety is concerned,

Julie (00:02:35):
the biggest benefit,

Julie (00:02:36):
and it still is the biggest benefit to me,

Julie (00:02:38):
is that mourning.

Julie (00:02:40):
Just that feeling like actually being happy to wake up and not feeling like shit all the time.

Julie (00:02:47):
And just feeling like you have enough of yourself to give to anyone who needs it.

Julie (00:02:52):
You know, dropping all that shame, the hangovers, all of that obvious stuff.

Julie (00:02:57):
But more than that is like, now my mornings are just, that's my most creative time.

Julie (00:03:04):
And what I struggle with now is like,

Julie (00:03:07):
so that's the time where I do my reading and I do some of my writing.

Julie (00:03:12):
But I feel as though I've gotten myself into this habit of,

Julie (00:03:17):
thinking I can only do it under great certain conditions, like by myself insult.

Julie (00:03:25):
Like I,

Julie (00:03:25):
I,

Julie (00:03:26):
I struggle with the days where I can't have those two or three hours to myself in

Julie (00:03:31):
the morning.

Julie (00:03:31):
And I wish I was a little, I guess I wish I was a little more flexible with how I create.

Julie (00:03:42):
And from a sobriety standpoint, I think,

Julie (00:03:45):
That has a lot to do with the compulsion tendencies I have.

Allison (00:03:50):
I feel like it turns into this whole whack-a-mole thing.

Allison (00:03:55):
And I'm at a place in my newsletter where I've realized I keep adding stuff and not

Allison (00:04:09):
giving myself,

Allison (00:04:10):
like taking anything away.

Allison (00:04:12):
So I keep piling stuff on my own plate.

Allison (00:04:17):
which I'm very excited about,

Allison (00:04:20):
but also I feel like the behavior might be a little bit compulsive with everything

Allison (00:04:26):
that I feel my day with when I need to make time to rest.

Allison (00:04:31):
And me and Rosemary, we were talking about it last week.

Allison (00:04:35):
We had a conversation about just being a creator who shares on social media

Allison (00:04:45):
as a sober person like are you really sober because there's there is an element of

Allison (00:04:54):
it which uh like you're hitting those dopamine you know receptors in a way that it

Allison (00:05:03):
feels a little bit unhealthy um especially like

Allison (00:05:10):
with the feedback where you can get like, like hundreds of likes or whatever.

Allison (00:05:14):
It's like, Oh yeah.

Allison (00:05:15):
Like what, but trying to find the balance in being a creator who shares is such a challenge.

Allison (00:05:25):
And especially if you have like another job or kids or everything,

Allison (00:05:30):
um,

Allison (00:05:30):
uh,

Allison (00:05:32):
it can become something that you really

Allison (00:05:35):
are once again hurting yourself with.

Allison (00:05:38):
You know what I mean?

Rachel  (00:05:39):
Because there's just so many elements to it.

Rachel  (00:05:44):
Even the social media standpoint,

Rachel  (00:05:45):
you have to get everything out there and you got to have a Facebook and you got to

Rachel  (00:05:48):
have an Instagram.

Rachel  (00:05:49):
It's not as simple as just...

Rachel  (00:05:52):
writing,

Rachel  (00:05:54):
pressing publish and walking away,

Rachel  (00:05:57):
or maybe for some it is,

Rachel  (00:05:58):
at least I know when it comes to the prep work of the podcast,

Rachel  (00:06:04):
I've tried to put it into a newsletter and it takes a lot of work.

Rachel  (00:06:07):
And then I'm picky about, I don't like this template.

Rachel  (00:06:10):
I'm going to do a new template.

Rachel  (00:06:11):
And then I don't like that template.

Rachel  (00:06:12):
I don't like the font.

Rachel  (00:06:13):
And then I'm sitting there and I'm like, what am I doing this all for?

Rachel  (00:06:18):
Like,

Rachel  (00:06:19):
But it all matters.

Rachel  (00:06:21):
Yeah.

Rachel  (00:06:21):
Because it's part of like what you're presenting.

Rachel  (00:06:25):
So do you have like a preferred social media platform?

Rachel  (00:06:28):
I am.

Julie (00:06:29):
Me, I have never once been on X or Twitter.

Julie (00:06:34):
I don't have an account.

Julie (00:06:35):
Like I've never been.

Julie (00:06:35):
I don't even know what it looks like.

Julie (00:06:38):
Facebook.

Julie (00:06:40):
I mean, I have a Facebook.

Julie (00:06:41):
I have an Instagram.

Julie (00:06:44):
I've gotten...

Julie (00:06:45):
To the point where I sort of hide it on my phone.

Julie (00:06:47):
Like I have all these guardrails with it.

Julie (00:06:49):
But I've never used those two.

Julie (00:06:52):
Not never.

Julie (00:06:53):
I didn't rely on those two for my writing.

Julie (00:06:56):
I, from time to time, would, on the story, like throw a link to the Substack.

Julie (00:07:00):
But I'm sort of,

Julie (00:07:02):
from a creative perspective,

Julie (00:07:04):
as far as getting my newsletter out and getting my writing out,

Julie (00:07:06):
I'm really doubling down on Substack.

Julie (00:07:08):
It's kind of the only thing I'm doing.

Julie (00:07:12):
I am part of like smaller little writing groups.

Rachel  (00:07:17):
which is really helpful.

Rachel  (00:07:19):
Did you find those through Substack or where did you go find the writing groups?

Julie (00:07:23):
A couple of them are through like some other writers on Substack who,

Julie (00:07:28):
like I offer a Zoom for paid subscribers.

Julie (00:07:31):
I just started it back up.

Julie (00:07:33):
I wasn't doing it,

Julie (00:07:35):
but it's sort of morphed into this like way that we're all sharing our writing and

Julie (00:07:41):
this sort of conversation,

Julie (00:07:42):
like the angst of like being a creator and how hard we can be on ourselves.

Julie (00:07:46):
And then I was, yeah, I also participated in, do you know Ann Dowsett Johnston?

Julie (00:07:53):
She wrote Drink, Canadian Riders.

Julie (00:07:58):
She offers a writing community.

Julie (00:08:01):
It's not free, but it's year long in two segments.

Julie (00:08:06):
And it starts with writing your recovery.

Julie (00:08:08):
So it's all primarily women in recovery.

Julie (00:08:12):
And then there's like a subset,

Julie (00:08:13):
like once you get through that,

Julie (00:08:14):
it's writing your discovery and it's kind of like the next step.

Julie (00:08:17):
Yeah, it's really cool.

Julie (00:08:20):
I'd started that even before the sub stack.

Julie (00:08:22):
So that's where I feel most comfortable writing.

Julie (00:08:27):
But to Julie's point, like it is definitely reminiscent of, I mean, there's addiction there.

Julie (00:08:35):
As for me, there's that pull and that, like when I think about

Julie (00:08:42):
how I knew it was time to stop drinking.

Julie (00:08:45):
It was because of how much brain space it took up.

Julie (00:08:49):
And if I'm going to be honest and say like,

Julie (00:08:51):
how much brain space is my Substack taking up?

Julie (00:08:54):
It's just as much as the drinking.

Julie (00:08:58):
So it's, it's, I don't know.

Julie (00:09:00):
It's,

Julie (00:09:01):
it's more good than bad,

Julie (00:09:02):
but I will say something that's really cute though,

Julie (00:09:05):
that I caught my daughter doing recently.

Julie (00:09:07):
And I am not calling her out on it cause she'll stop.

Julie (00:09:10):
But she's like,

Julie (00:09:11):
on her own little laptop, writing stories.

Julie (00:09:13):
And she's 11 and it's super cute.

Julie (00:09:17):
And she's like, mom, you want to hear me?

Julie (00:09:18):
It's all fiction.

Julie (00:09:19):
She's like, it's realistic fiction, mom.

Julie (00:09:21):
I'm like, all right.

Julie (00:09:21):
So she'll like start and she's got some good ideas.

Julie (00:09:25):
So, so like when I feel that mom guilt of like, oh, I'm too focused on this.

Julie (00:09:30):
And I'm like, look at that though.

Julie (00:09:31):
Like that's, that's cool.

Rachel  (00:09:32):
How did you feel in the managing of like publishing your book?

Rachel  (00:09:37):
Yeah.

Allison (00:09:38):
In the creation of the book,

Allison (00:09:40):
I had like the cover designer and I had a development,

Allison (00:09:43):
developmental editor and then a line editor.

Allison (00:09:47):
But after that, it was all like I've done every single thing.

Allison (00:09:52):
So, uh, I feel like I've learned so many new skills, um,

Allison (00:10:01):
And it's all because of sobriety.

Allison (00:10:05):
Like I would have never done this.

Allison (00:10:09):
But it has felt like very lonely as well.

Allison (00:10:13):
Like,

Allison (00:10:14):
of course,

Allison (00:10:14):
I have the support of all of my readers,

Allison (00:10:17):
but people who traditionally publish have,

Allison (00:10:20):
you know,

Allison (00:10:20):
a publisher that they know is like it has seen their story,

Allison (00:10:28):
their book and said,

Allison (00:10:30):
this is good enough for us to sell.

Allison (00:10:32):
And for me, I had to.

Allison (00:10:36):
I'm the one who has to tell myself, like, this is good enough to to

Allison (00:10:42):
to sell, to put out in the world.

Allison (00:10:45):
And I still have to remind myself every day that this isn't ridiculous because

Allison (00:10:53):
there's a part of,

Allison (00:10:54):
there's like a voice that says,

Allison (00:10:56):
this is like,

Allison (00:10:57):
who do you think you are?

Allison (00:11:00):
You think that your story is important?

Allison (00:11:02):
You're just another white lady who got sober in her forties, like big fucking deal.

Allison (00:11:09):
But

Allison (00:11:11):
But I feel like part of some of the amazing growth that happens when you make

Allison (00:11:20):
choices to live a better life.

Allison (00:11:22):
And I think it's so important.

Allison (00:11:27):
But it's like those two voices are always at war with each other.

Allison (00:11:31):
And then with the podcast,

Allison (00:11:34):
because i started decided to start my own podcast i've never felt more imposter

Allison (00:11:40):
syndrome than like the first time i when i recorded my um first episode with

Allison (00:11:47):
allison like that whole day after i was just thinking who don't like what who who

Allison (00:11:52):
do who do i think i am like like i'm a person out i don't know um

Rachel  (00:12:00):
like Dr. Phil, but just like, get real.

Rachel  (00:12:06):
Catchphrase.

Allison (00:12:10):
Like, be normal.

Allison (00:12:11):
I don't know.

Allison (00:12:14):
I don't even know.

Allison (00:12:14):
I don't even watch Dr. Phil, but

Allison (00:12:17):
Yeah, he's too mean.

Allison (00:12:17):
I can't watch him.

Rachel  (00:12:19):
I was like,

Rachel  (00:12:20):
I think that's his catchphrase,

Rachel  (00:12:21):
and I know that because the sports radio I listen to,

Rachel  (00:12:23):
they do a fake version of him,

Rachel  (00:12:25):
and it's very funny.

Rachel  (00:12:27):
Be real.

Rachel  (00:12:28):
Be real.

Rachel  (00:12:28):
Or get real, I think.

Rachel  (00:12:30):
He's like, about your addiction, get real.

Rachel  (00:12:33):
I don't know.

Rachel  (00:12:35):
It's very weird.

Rachel  (00:12:37):
I feel like...

Allison (00:12:41):
doing these creative things and putting them out there is,

Allison (00:12:47):
I mean,

Allison (00:12:48):
it's important for us to just like gain back our,

Allison (00:12:53):
our sense of self.

Allison (00:12:54):
And it's important for other people to see it.

Allison (00:12:56):
I feel like, um, you know, I agree.

Allison (00:13:03):
And like the, the, like more we can like tamp down that voice that says like,

Allison (00:13:10):
Like, who are you?

Allison (00:13:12):
Get real.

Allison (00:13:14):
I mean,

Julie (00:13:16):
Julie,

Julie (00:13:17):
I have to say to your voice in the sober community,

Julie (00:13:20):
like you're doing something that I don't think a lot of folks are doing.

Julie (00:13:26):
And that's like really doubling down on the fact that you don't need to have a

Julie (00:13:30):
problem to get sober.

Julie (00:13:31):
Like you've in, I think people need to hear that.

Julie (00:13:35):
And, you know, there's so many,

Julie (00:13:38):
Yes, there's a lot of quitlet.

Julie (00:13:39):
Yes,

Julie (00:13:39):
there's a lot of like sobriety is having a hot moment,

Julie (00:13:42):
but most of it is,

Julie (00:13:43):
I don't even think it's definitely like based on the steps or AA.

Julie (00:13:49):
I mean,

Julie (00:13:49):
it could be of course,

Julie (00:13:50):
but there's a lot of curiosity around sobriety,

Julie (00:13:55):
but also like you don't have to have a,

Julie (00:14:00):
like a big rock bottom or problem and you're shining a light on

Julie (00:14:06):
this is normal to want to be healthy and not poison yourself.

Allison (00:14:12):
Yeah, I felt like a lot of my life was spent...

Allison (00:14:16):
waiting for something really terrible to happen so that I could quit drinking.

Allison (00:14:22):
And I feel like a lot of people can relate to that because they're like,

Allison (00:14:27):
okay,

Allison (00:14:27):
like once I hit rock bottom,

Allison (00:14:30):
then I can stop.

Allison (00:14:31):
Like once my family comes and has an intervention,

Allison (00:14:34):
then I'll know I have a problem,

Allison (00:14:36):
but you don't need that.

Allison (00:14:38):
It's okay to just take care of yourself.

Rachel  (00:14:43):
I kind of got lucky in that like,

Rachel  (00:14:46):
perfect timing that it was just kind of very serendipitous.

Rachel  (00:14:51):
But to hear how y'all just kind of did it a way different way, I think is super inspiring.

Rachel  (00:14:57):
And I think that's worth sharing.

Rachel  (00:14:58):
I feel like the AA,

Rachel  (00:15:00):
I'm just another person who went work the steps like millions of other people.

Rachel  (00:15:05):
It's much harder to be able to do it while writing, while putting feelings out there online.

Rachel  (00:15:13):
Like, I mean, that's a lot.

Rachel  (00:15:15):
I feel like it's kind of like RAA.

Julie (00:15:19):
Yeah.

Julie (00:15:20):
Yeah.

Julie (00:15:21):
And I think the three of us have in common,

Julie (00:15:24):
well,

Julie (00:15:24):
at least perhaps the three of us,

Julie (00:15:26):
but Rachel,

Julie (00:15:26):
what I hear in your story that I can relate to is you might have walked into that

Julie (00:15:33):
meeting because you made a promise to someone else.

Julie (00:15:35):
I made a promise to my husband.

Julie (00:15:37):
I was like, I'm going to get this under control.

Julie (00:15:39):
As 2020 went on, I was like, just let me do this and I will get this under control.

Julie (00:15:42):
And so I went like,

Julie (00:15:44):
crazy towards the end of the year in 2020 and then we both did a dry january and

Julie (00:15:50):
like come march he's like all right we're gonna drink again right and i was like no

Julie (00:15:54):
i'm like this is me now so like yeah i i think i would have told people or i was

Julie (00:16:02):
telling myself that like i have to do this for my kids i have to do this because my

Julie (00:16:06):
husband's like stop drinking every day at like two o'clock like stop um

Julie (00:16:12):
but it really was for me.

Julie (00:16:14):
Like it really became like,

Julie (00:16:17):
you know,

Julie (00:16:17):
once you started doing it,

Julie (00:16:18):
it was like,

Julie (00:16:20):
you just come back to yourself,

Julie (00:16:23):
you know?

Julie (00:16:23):
And I think that's, that's what's kept me here.

Julie (00:16:29):
And for some people,

Julie (00:16:30):
it takes a lot,

Julie (00:16:32):
whether they go to an AA meeting or they promise someone they're going to stop drinking,

Julie (00:16:35):
sometimes it takes a few stops and starts,

Julie (00:16:37):
stops and starts,

Julie (00:16:38):
like to figure out like,

Julie (00:16:39):
all right,

Julie (00:16:40):
I really got to fucking do this for me.

Rachel  (00:16:42):
And I think that's why I like one of the,

Rachel  (00:16:46):
we are the luckiest is the outlook of,

Rachel  (00:16:51):
wow,

Rachel  (00:16:51):
my OCD kind of saved me in that way.

Rachel  (00:16:54):
Like I hate that I have OCD sometimes,

Rachel  (00:16:57):
but I think having that part of me in early sobriety,

Rachel  (00:17:02):
I just was a very follow the rules.

Rachel  (00:17:04):
I was just like,

Rachel  (00:17:07):
And it got to a point where it was probably a little unhealthy.

Rachel  (00:17:11):
Like, and that's where you grow in transition and there's different phases of sobriety.

Rachel  (00:17:18):
But I would definitely say OCD.

Rachel  (00:17:22):
If I didn't have that,

Rachel  (00:17:23):
I don't know if I would have stuck as well or been as adamant,

Rachel  (00:17:26):
rule following.

Rachel  (00:17:28):
I thought if I didn't do whatever my sponsor said, like...

Rachel  (00:17:33):
I don't even know what I thought would happen.

Rachel  (00:17:35):
You'd be expelled.

Rachel  (00:17:36):
Expelled, yeah.

Rachel  (00:17:37):
I'd be banished.

Rachel  (00:17:40):
Shunned.

Rachel  (00:17:41):
I don't know.

Rachel  (00:17:43):
I got given homework and I went and did it.

Rachel  (00:17:49):
It was hard.

Rachel  (00:17:49):
It was a weird question.

Rachel  (00:17:51):
Again, you sit down and you read a book with someone.

Rachel  (00:17:54):
And I hadn't read in like 10 years because I was always too drunk to read.

Rachel  (00:17:59):
And like, we're just reading these paragraph by paragraph doing this popcorn.

Rachel  (00:18:03):
And there's something really beautiful in like even the simplicity of it.

Rachel  (00:18:09):
It's like, oh yeah, I can connect without alcohol.

Rachel  (00:18:14):
I never knew that.

Allison (00:18:16):
Did you make it through the whole book?

Allison (00:18:18):
I remember you said on our first interview that,

Allison (00:18:21):
like,

Allison (00:18:22):
it was hard for you to read the big book and you were trying to read the whole thing.

Allison (00:18:25):
Did you, like, read the whole thing?

Rachel  (00:18:27):
Oh, multiple times.

Rachel  (00:18:28):
Yeah, yeah.

Rachel  (00:18:28):
I read it a lot.

Rachel  (00:18:29):
Like, I was like, I like it.

Rachel  (00:18:33):
There are things I don't like.

Rachel  (00:18:34):
Like, there – and I definitely tailed back –

Rachel  (00:18:39):
and actually Collins is kind of scaled up,

Rachel  (00:18:40):
but it's very weird that I also relate that like Colin and I were like hardcore

Rachel  (00:18:47):
drinking buddies.

Rachel  (00:18:48):
That's what our whole foundation was on.

Rachel  (00:18:51):
Um, my marriage and, um,

Rachel  (00:18:56):
we had love it or listed up the other day and we used to like take shots of

Rachel  (00:19:00):
guessing if they were going to love it or list it.

Rachel  (00:19:02):
And, you know, I was like, how could we ever even watch that show if we don't drink?

Rachel  (00:19:07):
And it's like, you see back and you're like, that's the stupidest thing.

Rachel  (00:19:10):
This is so silly.

Rachel  (00:19:12):
Uh, uh, just, I mean, the, the levels, um, I can't even it in the insanity.

Rachel  (00:19:22):
And, um,

Rachel  (00:19:24):
I thought we were just going to do nothing.

Rachel  (00:19:28):
And life has opened up so many different doors in sobriety.

Rachel  (00:19:32):
And like you learn all couples fight, all of them about different things.

Rachel  (00:19:39):
And like, there's never going to be a,

Rachel  (00:19:41):
Well, there could be a non-fighting couple, but I wouldn't trust it.

Rachel  (00:19:45):
Like it's no way.

Rachel  (00:19:49):
I also wanted to share.

Rachel  (00:19:51):
I've had two things.

Rachel  (00:19:52):
So since we haven't recorded in a minute.

Rachel  (00:19:54):
So Colin and I flew for my birthday.

Rachel  (00:19:57):
We went February 1st and we got the 5 a.m.

Rachel  (00:20:00):
flight.

Rachel  (00:20:03):
And my body doesn't do well flying anymore.

Rachel  (00:20:05):
But anyways,

Rachel  (00:20:06):
the thing I had wrote down and noted is as I'm going through security,

Rachel  (00:20:12):
there is this like group of the TSA employees and they're like...

Rachel  (00:20:17):
yes, dry January is over.

Rachel  (00:20:20):
And I was like, it is 5 a.m.

Rachel  (00:20:22):
on February 1st.

Rachel  (00:20:24):
And I was like, that would have been me.

Rachel  (00:20:27):
That probably would have been me at 1 a.m.

Rachel  (00:20:29):
And I didn't even realize or connect it was February 1st until I'm overhearing it

Rachel  (00:20:35):
and halfway at the airport.

Rachel  (00:20:37):
And I don't know if what those people's lives are like, but it made me so grateful.

Rachel  (00:20:43):
I was like, oh my God, I'm so glad I'm not thinking about like,

Rachel  (00:20:49):
the celebration of doing a month of like,

Rachel  (00:20:55):
that's the first thing I got to tell my coworkers when I walk in in the morning,

Rachel  (00:20:58):
you know?

Rachel  (00:20:58):
Yeah.

Rachel  (00:20:59):
And it just reminded me how this affects more people than like I think about.

(00:21:06):
Yeah.

Julie (00:21:07):
I think dry January is like getting a bad rap to some degree because there are a lot of people

Julie (00:21:19):
And I was one who would participate in it and be like, I don't have a problem.

Julie (00:21:23):
Like I didn't drink for 31 days and it wasn't so hard, you know?

Julie (00:21:28):
And like for me when that first month, yeah, it was hard.

Julie (00:21:33):
Don't get me wrong.

Julie (00:21:34):
It was hard, but like a lot of stuff is much harder now than that first year.

Julie (00:21:39):
I mean,

Julie (00:21:40):
I'm finding like,

Julie (00:21:41):
you really got to like get some traction and the sobriety thing for it to get like,

Julie (00:21:46):
to really try it on.

Julie (00:21:47):
You can't fucking do that in a month.

Julie (00:21:50):
And that's why I think they're like you hear so many like personally, I think.

Julie (00:21:56):
However, someone's going to dry up if it's just for a month, like, great, try it on.

Julie (00:22:00):
But.

Julie (00:22:00):
To use that as an excuse or like a conviction,

Julie (00:22:06):
like telling yourself,

Julie (00:22:08):
I don't have a problem because I do it every year or I I can't,

Julie (00:22:11):
you know,

Julie (00:22:11):
I don't know why.

Julie (00:22:14):
So it's, it's a weird, it's a weird thing.

Rachel  (00:22:16):
Some of the things we witnessed behind clothes,

Rachel  (00:22:19):
you know,

Rachel  (00:22:20):
the high bottom drunk,

Rachel  (00:22:22):
which I think all three of us kind of fall in.

Rachel  (00:22:26):
It's like behind the scenes though, it wasn't always so high bottom.

Rachel  (00:22:29):
Like, I think there's a lot of behind closed doors that.

Rachel  (00:22:33):
Yeah.

Rachel  (00:22:35):
The, it looks so good until it's like no one, but the like immediate family is around.

Rachel  (00:22:43):
How does your family feel about... I remember asking Julie this on the first one.

Julie (00:22:49):
Yeah, my dynamic is interesting because my husband still drinks.

Rachel  (00:22:56):
Oh, that's right.

Rachel  (00:22:57):
Okay.

Julie (00:22:57):
Yeah, not nearly as much as he did when I was still drinking.

Julie (00:23:03):
And our drinking was different.

Julie (00:23:07):
We were drinking buddies.

Julie (00:23:08):
We both drank, in my opinion, more...

Julie (00:23:12):
often in more quantity than we should have when we did.

Julie (00:23:15):
But,

Julie (00:23:16):
you know,

Julie (00:23:17):
he,

Julie (00:23:18):
he wasn't as dependent on it in the same ways that I was like,

Julie (00:23:21):
I depended on it for stress,

Julie (00:23:23):
for overwhelm,

Julie (00:23:23):
for coping,

Julie (00:23:24):
for like,

Julie (00:23:26):
he was just like,

Julie (00:23:27):
I mean,

Julie (00:23:28):
Yeah.

Julie (00:23:28):
Okay.

Julie (00:23:28):
Occasionally, but he was more just like, he's the fun guy.

Julie (00:23:30):
Like, let's fucking do a shot.

Julie (00:23:32):
Like, come on.

Julie (00:23:33):
Like, you know, but like he day to day stuff, he didn't need it.

Julie (00:23:35):
Like me, like just functioning.

Julie (00:23:37):
I just needed that one or two drinks to take the edge off.

Julie (00:23:40):
He wasn't the guy who needed to take the edge off or isn't the guy.

Julie (00:23:44):
So that's changed our marriage drastically.

Julie (00:23:49):
It's forced us to, to like have conversations about things, to talk.

Julie (00:23:53):
It's forced us to talk.

Julie (00:23:55):
And as far as the kids go, like,

Julie (00:23:57):
It's, you know, my son's 17, is a senior in high school.

Julie (00:24:01):
I had,

Julie (00:24:01):
yeah,

Julie (00:24:02):
I had a 17-year-old and 11-year-old and my son's getting ready to go off to college.

Julie (00:24:06):
And for the very first time about a month ago, I caught him drunk.

Julie (00:24:13):
And I, you know, it wasn't, it was, it's just, I didn't, I mean, I know he's drinking.

Julie (00:24:18):
I know he, I trust him, like all that stuff.

Julie (00:24:21):
He's a smart, like he's, you know, he had a ride, all of the things you hope that he,

Julie (00:24:25):
does or doesn't do when he decides to drink.

Julie (00:24:28):
So there's some good, honest conversations.

Julie (00:24:31):
Like he reads some of my sub stack,

Julie (00:24:33):
my son,

Julie (00:24:36):
my kids,

Julie (00:24:36):
like my daughter's 11,

Julie (00:24:37):
but she understands like twice a month,

Julie (00:24:39):
I host a online sobriety Zoom for TLC for the local subgroup.

Julie (00:24:44):
And like, mom, you have your TLC?

Julie (00:24:46):
Like she understands what I'm doing when I do it.

Julie (00:24:51):
But that's different than like to your point about

Julie (00:24:56):
like what really went on behind the scenes.

Julie (00:24:58):
Like if I'm going to write an honest book and I think I will someday,

Julie (00:25:02):
like there's going to be stuff in there that's going to be hard for all three of

Julie (00:25:04):
them to read.

Julie (00:25:05):
I know it, but.

Rachel  (00:25:08):
So do you guys find yourself,

Rachel  (00:25:10):
Julie,

Rachel  (00:25:10):
I know you love books,

Rachel  (00:25:11):
so I know that's hard,

Rachel  (00:25:12):
but do you find yourself like when you're trying to just not have a creative,

Rachel  (00:25:17):
are you more video?

Rachel  (00:25:18):
Are you shorts or listening to audio in the car?

Rachel  (00:25:23):
I mean, where do you default?

Rachel  (00:25:26):
I gobble it all up.

Allison (00:25:28):
Eyes, ears, mouth.

Allison (00:25:35):
I listen to podcasts, read newsletters, read books.

Allison (00:25:39):
I feel like Allison is the same way.

Allison (00:25:41):
We're media consumers.

Rachel  (00:25:47):
Do you prefer to do a Kindle reader or iPad?

Allison (00:25:54):
I like physical books.

Allison (00:25:57):
I have a Kindle, but it's annoying to have to remember to charge it.

Allison (00:26:02):
And I just, I like the feeling of the paper and turning the pages.

Allison (00:26:05):
It's just like been a love affair since I was five.

Allison (00:26:08):
So,

Allison (00:26:09):
and I like to go to the library when I find out that there's a book that I love,

Allison (00:26:14):
that I want to read that's at the library,

Allison (00:26:17):
put it on hold.

Allison (00:26:18):
And it's just amazing.

Allison (00:26:20):
I feel like libraries are so magic.

Allison (00:26:22):
I love them so much.

Julie (00:26:24):
I have a hard, I have, my preference is definitely the actual book versus Kindle.

Julie (00:26:30):
But my problem with like taking it from the library is I,

Julie (00:26:32):
I'm the one who like goes in the margin and writes and underlines and does all that.

Julie (00:26:37):
So if it's a library book, I'm like, oh shit.

Julie (00:26:39):
Like if I really, then I'll go, what I end up doing usually is like, I'll go and buy it.

Julie (00:26:43):
I really loved it to mark it all up and do my thing with it.

Julie (00:26:46):
Yeah.

Rachel  (00:26:47):
That's awesome.

Rachel  (00:26:48):
I never something I've done.

Julie (00:26:51):
My books are like, people will come over and be like, can I borrow this?

Julie (00:26:54):
I'm like, uh, okay.

Julie (00:26:56):
But they open it up and it's like, I graffiti the hell out of it.

Julie (00:27:00):
They're like, I'll just buy it myself.

(00:27:02):
Um,

Rachel  (00:27:03):
That was one of my favorite quotes that was related to AA.

Rachel  (00:27:08):
And I have it in the very front is,

Rachel  (00:27:10):
you know,

Rachel  (00:27:11):
a big book that's falling apart with the pages falling out and like the seals is

Rachel  (00:27:17):
usually owned by someone who's not.

Rachel  (00:27:20):
And it's like...

Rachel  (00:27:21):
I love the like that falling apart, gone through, highlighted, marked.

Rachel  (00:27:27):
And it's like you can tell every page has just been soaked up in information.

Rachel  (00:27:30):
And it's like I loved the idea that anyone who has a big book or a book that is

Rachel  (00:27:36):
falling apart is not falling apart themselves.

Rachel  (00:27:39):
And I've always loved that.

Rachel  (00:27:41):
Yeah.

Rachel  (00:27:43):
that quote.

Rachel  (00:27:43):
It's, I don't know.

Rachel  (00:27:45):
I look at books differently when everyone brings theirs to group.

Rachel  (00:27:48):
And I'm like, that's how I can tell when someone has a little more time.

Rachel  (00:27:52):
Now I used to look at different things and I'm like, that person who's got a beat up book.

Rachel  (00:27:57):
Yeah.

Rachel  (00:27:57):
They got some time and it's been, it's been places and it's, it's cool.

Rachel  (00:28:05):
It's cause you meet the most

Rachel  (00:28:10):
random unique people that you share this like really intense bond with and it's

Rachel  (00:28:19):
that's cool though people that would normally not mix yeah

Rachel  (00:28:25):
What for outside, like not even just creative, but with sobriety.

Rachel  (00:28:31):
So if not AA,

Rachel  (00:28:34):
I know when I was going to AA regularly,

Rachel  (00:28:37):
there's just a lot of like events and groups and like you can get your schedule

Rachel  (00:28:40):
pretty full with things to do.

Rachel  (00:28:42):
So what do you do outside like for hobbies or if you're not writing or you're not

Rachel  (00:28:48):
reading someone else's work?

Rachel  (00:28:50):
Are there other things outside or do you try to stay within the sober community or sober groups?

Julie (00:28:55):
I mean, I, I need it.

Julie (00:28:57):
I definitely will admit that I need that outlet with people who get it and are in it,

Julie (00:29:02):
but it's not,

Julie (00:29:03):
you know,

Julie (00:29:03):
I also have,

Julie (00:29:04):
I still have a group of friends who know my story,

Julie (00:29:08):
but that I'll still see regularly.

Julie (00:29:12):
And, you know, it's really like my kids' sports too.

Julie (00:29:17):
Like right now we're in the winter and they both play basketball.

Julie (00:29:19):
So when I'm not sort of doing the sober thing or writing,

Julie (00:29:23):
A lot of my time is in the basketball court, like watching the kids, which I love.

Julie (00:29:30):
But I will say that, you know, the dynamics of friendships have definitely changed.

Julie (00:29:36):
Some for the better.

Julie (00:29:38):
Like,

Julie (00:29:40):
yeah,

Julie (00:29:40):
surprisingly,

Julie (00:29:41):
I would like,

Julie (00:29:42):
there are certain friends who I never would have thought I'd become closer to in

Julie (00:29:47):
sobriety that aren't necessarily sober.

Julie (00:29:49):
They're just willing to listen to this stuff and like,

Julie (00:29:53):
want this sort of conversation too,

Julie (00:29:55):
because like it,

Julie (00:29:58):
it really like when you peel it back,

Julie (00:29:59):
it's not the alcohol,

Julie (00:30:00):
right?

Julie (00:30:00):
Like why we drank, it's really not.

Julie (00:30:02):
So I have some friends who I'm like,

Julie (00:30:03):
wow,

Julie (00:30:03):
I never would have thought we'd become closer this way.

Julie (00:30:06):
Um, so that's been like a cool little surprise.

Rachel  (00:30:12):
Yeah.

Rachel  (00:30:13):
Yeah.

Rachel  (00:30:13):
Like I was never present and I was always selfish and I was usually the one trying

Rachel  (00:30:19):
to entice like

Rachel  (00:30:21):
the next shot and it's, or the next drink or the next round.

Rachel  (00:30:25):
Um, is there any other topic or any other things you want to share?

Rachel  (00:30:32):
I feel like we've kind of gone a little different places.

Rachel  (00:30:35):
The only thing I'd want to say is,

Rachel  (00:30:37):
um,

Julie (00:30:37):
I feel like my writing has evolved a little bit in the sobriety,

Julie (00:30:42):
um,

Julie (00:30:44):
where I came to stop sec.

Julie (00:30:47):
I started writing really with a very,

Julie (00:30:49):
focused sober lens and with the consistent practice of writing like a weekly

Julie (00:30:56):
newsletter I have found myself I don't want to say getting tired of it but just

Julie (00:31:02):
finding myself wanting to do other things with my writing but there's another part

Julie (00:31:08):
of me that's like can you really do that Allison you know so it's that it's a new

Julie (00:31:14):
uncomfortableness that I'm trying to navigate um

Julie (00:31:18):
But it feels good.

Julie (00:31:19):
So I don't know if that's something I should be disclosing here.

Julie (00:31:23):
But yeah, I just think my writing is evolving, which I think is what sobriety is all about.

Julie (00:31:31):
Yeah.

Rachel  (00:31:32):
And that did make me feel like when I got sober and I,

Rachel  (00:31:37):
I also,

Rachel  (00:31:38):
the opposite thing,

Rachel  (00:31:39):
I'd never really read or listened to any sober podcasts.

Rachel  (00:31:44):
I did tiny bit of TikTok that I would follow,

Rachel  (00:31:48):
unfollow this girl because it just depended on which mood I was in.

Rachel  (00:31:51):
I was like, oh, that's inspiring.

Rachel  (00:31:53):
Or I'm like, oh, this bitch needs to go.

Rachel  (00:31:55):
Like, you know, like I depended on where I was at and

Rachel  (00:32:01):
but I would never be able to commit to like,

Rachel  (00:32:03):
cause I would,

Rachel  (00:32:05):
I still argued up until that day I walked in,

Rachel  (00:32:07):
like I was going to drink till the day,

Rachel  (00:32:10):
you know,

Rachel  (00:32:10):
like sobriety wasn't even something.

Rachel  (00:32:12):
Yeah.

Rachel  (00:32:15):
I would have rather died like at that day.

Rachel  (00:32:17):
And,

Rachel  (00:32:17):
uh,

Rachel  (00:32:20):
so it's interesting to hear the different ways that some people are like,

Rachel  (00:32:24):
yeah,

Rachel  (00:32:25):
they kind of like listen.

Rachel  (00:32:25):
And I wonder how many people are listening or tuning in that, uh,

Rachel  (00:32:29):
are still kind of like curious,

Rachel  (00:32:31):
testing it out,

Rachel  (00:32:32):
doing the research versus people that have long-term sobriety that are looking for

Rachel  (00:32:38):
something relatable.

Rachel  (00:32:39):
Do you have a way in which you try to direct or do you like some weeks you're like,

Rachel  (00:32:46):
it's more for maybe the sober established or the sober curious?

Julie (00:32:50):
I don't really, and maybe I should, but I don't have like a, um,

Julie (00:32:56):
this is for those of you out here who X,

Julie (00:32:58):
Y,

Julie (00:32:59):
Z,

Julie (00:32:59):
it's just,

Julie (00:33:01):
I've recently changed the name of my Substack from dare to be dry to dare to be just to.

Rachel  (00:33:07):
Oh, okay.

Rachel  (00:33:08):
I think I noticed that.

Rachel  (00:33:09):
I was like, I love dare to be dry.

Julie (00:33:11):
I love that.

Julie (00:33:12):
Yeah.

Julie (00:33:12):
I mean,

Julie (00:33:13):
and like,

Julie (00:33:13):
it'll always be like when I kind of made the announcement that I was changing the name,

Julie (00:33:17):
it was like,

Julie (00:33:18):
listen,

Julie (00:33:18):
that sobriety voice is always going to be humming in the background.

Julie (00:33:22):
Like it's always going to be there, but I just didn't want,

Julie (00:33:26):
to kind of pigeonhole myself into only writing from like about sobriety.

Julie (00:33:29):
Yeah, that's the evolving.

Allison (00:33:32):
Yeah, that's the same for me.

Allison (00:33:36):
That's why I love like a normal person because all my new addictions can fit into

Allison (00:33:42):
what I'm writing about.

Rachel  (00:33:43):
Well, I like that your podcast spinoff, it's the quick lit.

Rachel  (00:33:48):
So I mean, really, it could be about a book that has nothing to do with sobriety.

Allison (00:33:52):
Well, the idea with my podcast is it's going to be about books and I'm going to do seasons.

Allison (00:33:59):
So it's like the Quitlet season right now because I just wrote a Quitlet book.

Allison (00:34:04):
Um, and then next season it's going to be something different.

Allison (00:34:06):
I'm going to write about, or read books about sisters, sisterhood, um, of the traveling pants.

Rachel  (00:34:13):
Not that.

Rachel  (00:34:17):
Uh, I mean, and that's, uh, what, yeah.

Rachel  (00:34:22):
Other than this podcast, it's Colin and I've said so many times we're like,

Rachel  (00:34:27):
It doesn't, we don't really think about drinking.

Rachel  (00:34:29):
We don't.

Rachel  (00:34:29):
So other than the things I mentioned about being at the airport,

Rachel  (00:34:32):
like we noticed that or the,

Rachel  (00:34:34):
his mom,

Rachel  (00:34:35):
like there's just very little things,

Rachel  (00:34:36):
but it's,

Rachel  (00:34:37):
there comes a point where you're like,

Rachel  (00:34:40):
okay,

Rachel  (00:34:41):
like alcohol.

Rachel  (00:34:42):
So what?

Rachel  (00:34:42):
Like it doesn't really faze me anymore.

Allison (00:34:45):
I feel like that you, I want personally for me, I don't want my life to be about it forever.

Allison (00:34:53):
Um, that's,

Allison (00:34:55):
like why I quit is because I don't want my life to be about it so if I'm talking

Allison (00:35:00):
about so sobriety like every day for the rest of my life I I feel like that is a

Allison (00:35:07):
little bit of a stunted growth I guess yeah and it still owns you somewhat

Allison (00:35:16):
And a lot of the people who have written the books that I read,

Allison (00:35:21):
what they go on to do is start their sober,

Allison (00:35:24):
they become this sober community leader.

Allison (00:35:30):
I don't want that.

Allison (00:35:31):
I don't want that life because it does get a little bit monotonous.

Allison (00:35:42):
And one note.

Allison (00:35:44):
But I want it always to be the foundation from which everything else blooms, you know?

Rachel  (00:35:51):
Well, it is.

Rachel  (00:35:51):
And it's just like, it was such a big part of the life.

Rachel  (00:35:54):
It's hard to like, not be grateful instantly.

Rachel  (00:36:00):
It's, but yeah, you're right.

Rachel  (00:36:02):
It's as time goes on, it's like,

Rachel  (00:36:06):
we're going to talk about other things, right?

Rachel  (00:36:08):
Like, you know, I get it.

Rachel  (00:36:12):
And that's kind of probably where our podcast is very, very niche.

Rachel  (00:36:18):
If you're,

Rachel  (00:36:19):
I don't know how long it'll,

Rachel  (00:36:22):
I don't even know if the sober movement is like me seeing,

Rachel  (00:36:25):
you know,

Rachel  (00:36:26):
I saw a blue car and now I see them all over the highway.

Rachel  (00:36:29):
And it's like, it's actually always been there.

Rachel  (00:36:31):
I just never really noticed it.

Rachel  (00:36:34):
Or I think I've read enough about, again, I don't know what my algorithm is.

Rachel  (00:36:38):
Like sometimes it's wild and it chooses what it wants for me.

Rachel  (00:36:45):
And one question I guess I do have,

Rachel  (00:36:48):
as I trust both of y'all to ask,

Rachel  (00:36:52):
I am,

Rachel  (00:36:53):
I do have one other interview tomorrow and

Rachel  (00:36:57):
with someone who just wrote and published a memoir that's brand new.

Rachel  (00:37:01):
What questions do you wish people would have asked you about when you started your

Rachel  (00:37:05):
newsletter or your book?

Rachel  (00:37:07):
What questions did you like that made you feel good?

Rachel  (00:37:13):
Like what,

Rachel  (00:37:14):
for other people that might meet an author or meet someone,

Rachel  (00:37:18):
even if they're not doing an interview,

Rachel  (00:37:19):
like what are the questions you enjoy?

Rachel  (00:37:22):
Cause we talk about the ones that suck all the time.

Rachel  (00:37:24):
Like those go in like the mean comments, but what are the good questions?

Julie (00:37:31):
I think from like, go ahead, Julie.

Allison (00:37:33):
I was just going to say something that I always love to explore,

Allison (00:37:41):
especially with memoir is other people and how like that are in and how you

Allison (00:37:51):
navigate like other people's privacy.

Allison (00:37:56):
Um,

Allison (00:37:56):
because I feel like that can feel in a way so selfish to be using other people's

Allison (00:38:05):
lives for like your art.

Allison (00:38:12):
I don't know.

Allison (00:38:12):
Like it's, it's an interesting topic to explore.

Rachel  (00:38:16):
Yeah, that's interesting.

Rachel  (00:38:17):
I like it.

Rachel  (00:38:18):
And it's kind of,

Rachel  (00:38:18):
as we said earlier,

Rachel  (00:38:20):
I want to be transparent on this podcast,

Rachel  (00:38:23):
but to be transparent does involve using the last three weeks of having my

Rachel  (00:38:28):
mother-in-law in the hospital,

Rachel  (00:38:29):
you know,

Rachel  (00:38:30):
but you're right.

Rachel  (00:38:32):
And how,

Rachel  (00:38:33):
so then back,

Rachel  (00:38:34):
how did you feel when,

Rachel  (00:38:36):
how did you treat the fairness when you were writing your book?

Allison (00:38:40):
Well, I definitely just tried to,

Allison (00:38:43):
make sure that everything was my story and not,

Allison (00:38:47):
I mean,

Allison (00:38:48):
it's almost impossible not to put my judgments on people and their behaviors,

Allison (00:38:51):
but as much as I could,

Allison (00:38:53):
I just tried to tell the story.

Allison (00:38:55):
But I did address it even in the book.

Allison (00:39:01):
And I think like one of the reviews even talked about how they were uncomfortable

Allison (00:39:09):
with the way that I shared

Allison (00:39:12):
someone's story that didn't want to be shared.

Allison (00:39:15):
Um, and when I was reading the review, I was just like, yeah, me too.

Allison (00:39:21):
Yeah.

Allison (00:39:24):
I've already,

Rachel  (00:39:27):
I've had a few negative reviews,

Rachel  (00:39:30):
especially on working on my interview style and I just get excited.

Rachel  (00:39:33):
And again, ADD OCD, I'm trying to work on the

Rachel  (00:39:39):
pause i'm a no silence person so like not talking over anyone and i've had someone

Rachel  (00:39:45):
comment you're rude and you only care about yourself so why have guests on and i

Rachel  (00:39:50):
was like well that's freaking harsh i was like i mean it's me i'm it's he's not

Rachel  (00:39:57):
like completely wrong like i've also noticed it i edit the podcast like i'm like oh

Rachel  (00:40:02):
god rachel and

Rachel  (00:40:04):
I'm like, I listen to other people now, and it takes a long time.

Rachel  (00:40:09):
It doesn't come instantly.

Rachel  (00:40:11):
It's something that builds.

Rachel  (00:40:15):
We Are the Luckiest Club I heard used to be very small.

Rachel  (00:40:20):
The day I offered to host a Zoom, I was like, oh, I'm going to do a Zoom.

Rachel  (00:40:24):
I didn't put any paywall.

Rachel  (00:40:26):
I just wanted to see.

Rachel  (00:40:27):
I had more unsubscribers than people that showed up.

Rachel  (00:40:31):
So that was fun.

Rachel  (00:40:33):
I sent out the email and I got two immediate unsubscribes.

Rachel  (00:40:36):
I was like, solid.

Rachel  (00:40:37):
And then one person showed up.

Julie (00:40:39):
That always surprises me.

Julie (00:40:40):
It's like,

Julie (00:40:41):
do you...

Julie (00:40:41):
Like,

Julie (00:40:43):
you subscribe for something and then when you get mad when you get the email,

Julie (00:40:47):
it's like,

Julie (00:40:47):
well...

Julie (00:40:48):
I don't know.

Allison (00:40:49):
I feel like sometimes people don't know what, what they're doing when they subscribe.

Allison (00:40:53):
I feel like,

Allison (00:40:54):
well,

Allison (00:40:55):
like I've come,

Allison (00:40:56):
I've made peace with like,

Allison (00:40:57):
okay,

Allison (00:40:57):
every time you send out an email,

Allison (00:40:59):
people are going to unsubscribe and it's nothing.

Allison (00:41:02):
It might not have anything to do with you and you don't want them there anyways.

Allison (00:41:05):
Leave my party.

Rachel  (00:41:07):
But it's really hard to tell yourself when you get those comments of like,

Rachel  (00:41:12):
you're the worst interviewer ever.

Rachel  (00:41:14):
Go take classes, whatever you need to do, or like do a,

Rachel  (00:41:20):
I know, it's actually, I very much respect the interview game now.

Rachel  (00:41:24):
There is definitely an art to it.

Allison (00:41:28):
Well, any resources that you want to share with me?

Allison (00:41:32):
Because I'm learning, too.

Julie (00:41:34):
You're both doing great.

Allison (00:41:35):
I was going to say, though, I like...

Allison (00:41:39):
It's like confronting to listen to your conversations that you have with people and realize,

Allison (00:41:45):
oh,

Allison (00:41:45):
this is what I do.

Allison (00:41:46):
Like, this is how I try to steer things to like where I want it to go.

Allison (00:41:51):
And I didn't listen to what she said just then.

Allison (00:41:53):
And just like,

Allison (00:41:54):
you hear it and it like really forces you to examine your conversation style,

Allison (00:42:02):
which is something you just,

Allison (00:42:04):
I don't know,

Allison (00:42:05):
don't think about until like you're listening to that recording.

Rachel  (00:42:08):
Yeah.

Allison (00:42:09):
And then you try to catch phrase like the question yourself.

Rachel  (00:42:13):
Yeah.

Rachel  (00:42:13):
Yeah.

Rachel  (00:42:14):
And I mean,

Rachel  (00:42:15):
I even found myself yesterday,

Rachel  (00:42:17):
like wanting,

Rachel  (00:42:18):
as I was looking up questions of what to ask,

Rachel  (00:42:20):
like,

Rachel  (00:42:21):
you know,

Rachel  (00:42:21):
or to get,

Rachel  (00:42:23):
thoughts of just where to go.

Rachel  (00:42:25):
Uh, you know, you have the whole, Oh, how you need to have your podcast intro.

Rachel  (00:42:31):
It needs to be first sentence structure, second sentence, third sentence.

Rachel  (00:42:34):
And I'm like, again, my OCD kicks in.

Rachel  (00:42:36):
I want to be a rule follower.

Rachel  (00:42:38):
And I'm like, this isn't even me anymore.

Rachel  (00:42:41):
This like, I'm not the you're it's taking away my personality, but I'm reading too much into it.

Rachel  (00:42:46):
And the office authenticity is what I love so much about this in the beginning.

(00:42:50):
Uh,

Julie (00:42:53):
it's banter so like that's like why would you have too many rules around a banter

Julie (00:43:00):
like a banter is just like we're gonna come and we're gonna shoot the shit like you

Rachel  (00:43:04):
know so it was hard naming the podcast that was a whole other like naming your news

Rachel  (00:43:09):
are you talking about like the not wanting to limit yourself like there's just so

Rachel  (00:43:14):
much behind the creative process that

Rachel  (00:43:20):
so much more into it if if someone knew how much like work thought i don't know if

Rachel  (00:43:24):
y'all brainstorm i definitely do for podcast episodes like i even go to my little

Rachel  (00:43:30):
idea sheet and i can try and think of things i want to kind of say um or have

Rachel  (00:43:39):
reflections but if someone thinks i just come in here and plug and go it's

Rachel  (00:43:44):
A lot more thought.

Rachel  (00:43:45):
And like I said, I've tried to do, oh, you need to do a newsletter reviewing the podcast.

Rachel  (00:43:50):
I'm like, what are we doing?

Rachel  (00:43:54):
And then I got to make a short clip of that to put on Instagram and TikTok for the

Rachel  (00:43:58):
Gen A or Alpha,

Rachel  (00:44:00):
whatever.

Rachel  (00:44:01):
And now I'm like, okay.

Rachel  (00:44:03):
And now I have to post them on 20 different social media sites because I'm missing

Rachel  (00:44:08):
out on this one.

Rachel  (00:44:09):
And it goes on and on.

Rachel  (00:44:12):
And that sounds like, okay, yeah, just go post it.

Rachel  (00:44:15):
Yeah.

Rachel  (00:44:16):
No, that takes hours sometimes, like captions.

Rachel  (00:44:18):
And then you realize, oh, that doesn't sound right.

Rachel  (00:44:21):
And you don't want them all the same.

Rachel  (00:44:23):
And it can get very rabbit-holey very fast.

Rachel  (00:44:28):
I just think of Evan's little video.

Rachel  (00:44:30):
Smash that subscribe and like button.

Rachel  (00:44:35):
Like the video games?

Rachel  (00:44:37):
I don't know if your son watches them,

Rachel  (00:44:39):
but my son loves watching the video games like other people play.

Rachel  (00:44:44):
Yeah.

Rachel  (00:44:46):
It's crazy.

Rachel  (00:44:46):
Yeah.

Rachel  (00:44:46):
No, the YouTube nation that we live in.

Rachel  (00:44:49):
Yeah.

Rachel  (00:44:50):
Smash that subscribe button.

Rachel  (00:44:51):
And I'm like,

Rachel  (00:44:52):
well,

Rachel  (00:44:52):
I will,

Julie (00:44:53):
I will say as a family,

Julie (00:44:55):
the four of us last night spent at least a half hour watching YouTube videos of

Julie (00:45:00):
goats that faint.

Julie (00:45:02):
It was the funniest.

Julie (00:45:04):
You got to find it.

Julie (00:45:05):
Like it's, it was just the stream of like, like goats that fit like falling over fainting.

Julie (00:45:12):
And it's amazing.

Julie (00:45:13):
But they're not harmed.

Julie (00:45:14):
Like, no one gets hurt.

Julie (00:45:15):
Like,

Julie (00:45:15):
I guess goats have this thing where you're scared that,

Julie (00:45:17):
like,

Julie (00:45:18):
if they're startled,

Julie (00:45:19):
they just tip over.

Rachel  (00:45:20):
And their legs, they... We watch America's Funniest Home Videos for animals all the time.

Rachel  (00:45:25):
So I will Google that.

Rachel  (00:45:26):
That's cute.

Rachel  (00:45:27):
We will be 100% watching it.

Julie (00:45:29):
The four of us were dying laughing.

Julie (00:45:31):
And I was like, that was really fun.

Julie (00:45:33):
Right before bed, we were just like watching goats.

Rachel  (00:45:35):
Yeah, we watched a family.

Rachel  (00:45:36):
So I will be Googling goats.

Rachel  (00:45:38):
Actually, I'll do a video reaction even.

Rachel  (00:45:40):
I will post it.

Rachel  (00:45:41):
But I know I've gone over on time.

Rachel  (00:45:43):
And I just want to say thank you both.

Rachel  (00:45:46):
I am going to link both of y'all's sub stacks.

Rachel  (00:45:48):
I will tag you as creator too.

Rachel  (00:45:52):
And Julie, just like last time, I'll send y'all that.

Rachel  (00:45:55):
You guys will understand.

Rachel  (00:45:57):
so nice because a lot of people I'm like,

Rachel  (00:45:59):
I send them that secret draft link and I have to try and explain,

Rachel  (00:46:03):
like,

Rachel  (00:46:03):
please don't share this one.

Rachel  (00:46:04):
This is just for you.

Rachel  (00:46:05):
It's like, it'll expire.

Rachel  (00:46:07):
But both of y'all have subsects.

Rachel  (00:46:08):
You already know what that is.

Rachel  (00:46:09):
And I don't have to be like, I feel so weird saying it to someone too.

Rachel  (00:46:14):
Hey,

Rachel  (00:46:14):
here's the secret link,

Rachel  (00:46:16):
but it is going to expire after it posts,

Rachel  (00:46:18):
but that way you can view it.

Rachel  (00:46:20):
And

Rachel  (00:46:21):
You know,

Rachel  (00:46:22):
like when I interviewed the psychologist,

Rachel  (00:46:24):
the doctor,

Rachel  (00:46:24):
and I'm like telling him there's,

Rachel  (00:46:26):
I felt like I all had a tinfoil hat.

Rachel  (00:46:29):
Here's the secret link, but don't share it.

Rachel  (00:46:32):
It's going to go poof after midnight.

Rachel  (00:46:34):
Like, I don't know.

Rachel  (00:46:35):
It's just,

Rachel  (00:46:37):
I just sat there and I'm like,

Rachel  (00:46:38):
but I want everyone to have a chance to,

Rachel  (00:46:41):
if there's something you don't want on there,

Rachel  (00:46:42):
then we'll take it off.

Rachel  (00:46:43):
It's not a big deal.

Rachel  (00:46:44):
That's not going to hurt my feelings.

Rachel  (00:46:45):
I'd rather have people be comfortable than have to like,

Rachel  (00:46:52):
worry about someone hearing something they don't want on there.

Rachel  (00:46:54):
Like, it's just not worth it to me.

Rachel  (00:46:56):
And, um, I thank you both for coming on.

Rachel  (00:46:59):
So it'll be like a normal person will be all, it'll be linked again.

Rachel  (00:47:04):
Everyone has sub stacks.

Rachel  (00:47:05):
That'd be perfect.

Rachel  (00:47:06):
Um, and then I guess the dare to be anything.

Rachel  (00:47:12):
I love it.

Rachel  (00:47:13):
Anything, anything you can dare to, and I mean, that's, I can turn anything into an addiction.

Rachel  (00:47:17):
So,

Rachel  (00:47:19):
Same.

Rachel  (00:47:21):
Dare to be.

Rachel  (00:47:23):
Just, yep.

Rachel  (00:47:24):
I'm there.

Rachel  (00:47:27):
Thank you both, Allison and Julie.

Rachel  (00:47:28):
I'm going to end recording.