WEBVTT

NOTE
This file was generated by Descript 

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Raphaël: Hey, and welcome to
the small tech podcast from EC.

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I'm your host Raph.

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And today we're going to be talking
about MVPs or minimum viable products.

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If you like the work that we
do, please hit that like and

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subscribe button and leave a review
on your podcast app of choice.

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Every little bit helps.

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We're a small team.

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It could really help us out.

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Let's talk about MVPs.

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What is an MVP, a minimum viable product.

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And what does that mean?

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Like, does that mean you're
going to be building out.

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Your thing, your product for real and
putting it into people's hands, or are you

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going to be putting together a prototype?

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What does a prototype mean?

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Is it something that you're
building and Figma and it's just

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visual, but people don't actually
store their data or what, yeah.

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What does it mean?

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Basically, at least from my
perspective and the work that

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we've done and that I've done.

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I see an MVP.

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As meaning the simplest easiest, cheapest
thing that you can do that actually

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provides some kind of value to the
person that you're providing it to.

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So, sometimes that means getting rid
of some things that you might value.

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But that your customer doesn't
and that's always a really

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difficult line to straddle.

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And I think, especially with entrepreneurs
and startups, who've got like a

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mission, a vision, this beautiful thing
they want to put out into the world.

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It's hard to like lop off the
bits that don't provide value

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to your end user, your customer.

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But that you know, is potentially
valuable down the line is

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potentially valuable to you.

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Or things that you think are just good.

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Sometimes that means losing some
polish being okay with bugs.

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Not always because there are customers for
whom a bug makes your product not viable.

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It doesn't provide value.

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So it's, it is not something that
they would be willing to pay for.

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And that's the thing that's always
like hard to straddle is to figure out.

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Where are the things that would
make the best product not quite

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as good but it would still be
good enough for enough people.

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To pay you.

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Or whether that is financially
or compensate you with

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their time with whatever.

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To use your product.

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So.

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That means different things
in different contexts.

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You might be able to get around,
like, depending on the value that

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you aim to provide, you might be
able to do that with a mailing list.

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For example, if the.

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Value that you aim to provide
is primarily informational.

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Maybe down the line.

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You need to have a custom platform because
the information you provide is complex.

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And for people to really get
the most out of it, they need

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a custom UI to navigate it.

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And to really break it
down into different.

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Whatever, like you can
imagine, for example, starting

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off a course or something.

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With a newsletter, maybe a blog.

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But then eventually moving
to a custom CMS or an LMS.

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A platform, a hosted platform, like
a Thinkific or a teachable and then

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moving into something custom because
you have specific requirements.

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But.

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That is always going to be dependent on.

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Your customer.

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And your relationship with them and
the value that you can provide to them.

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So.

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Yeah, it might be it
might be a newsletter.

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Or in some cases, let's say
you're providing infrastructure.

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Maybe you're building a platform
for people to deploy apps onto.

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You cannot really do that
with off the shelf tools.

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Like you're going to need to
build something technical.

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You will have to write code if your.

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Customer is a developer who
needs to deploy something.

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So where that line is
really, really varies.

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It's also going to dictate.

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How you're going to move forward,
what bootstrapping means whether

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you need to raise money or not.

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All of these things kind of feed
into your journey in different ways.

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And they change what an MVP means.

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So don't think of an MVP as a prototype.

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I don't think that's a real MVP.

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To me an MVP means something
that actually provides value that

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people are willing to pay for.

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If people are willing to
put dollars on the table.

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Or.

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There are contexts where
dollars don't matter as much.

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But where people are willing to
give you either their time, their

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money or something else, a value
to them to use your product.

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So yeah, and.

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In some cases that might be their time.

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But yeah, it could mean other things too.

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Like, are, are you somehow gating off
your product with information do they

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need to provide their I don't know,
phone number or some other information

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and not in a sort of creepy collecting
data about people way, but do they need

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to put in a certain amount of effort to,
for example, get past a free tier and

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actually start using your product fully.

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You can gauge things that way.

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But to me, that's the, that's
the, that's the real MVP.

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Is when they are willing to give you
something in exchange for whatever you've

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provided them whether that is something
that truly looks like your end product

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or is maybe just a loose facsimile of
what you intend to build down the line.

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If someone is willing to give you
something of value to them in exchange for

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what you are doing and that it's the type
of value that you want to provide down the

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line, whether the product looks the same.

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That's, that's an MVP.

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So if we're talking about something like a
web or mobile app, I think what you start

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with like any business, really, whether
it's a digital product or not is kind

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of getting a sense of, is there a market
for this or are there people who actually

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have this problem and would use my
solution to  solve that problem for them?

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And.

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Most importantly, are they willing
to give me something for it?

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Ideally dollars.

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So.

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Yeah.

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Before you actually start building
anything, even if it is low fidelity

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MVP or, or something that is a
simplified version of what you want

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to accomplish in the end, still
want to sort of get a sense of.

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Do people care about this now
there's different levels of this.

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Like, I think it comes down to what
you're willing to put into it as well.

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Like if, you know, you've got
five people who are friends

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of yours who might pay for it.

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That might be a good
starting point like that.

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That's fine.

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If you're willing to only put
in a little bit of time, you're

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not putting a whole lot into it.

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But they're willing to pay for it.

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That's a good starting point.

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But always be aware that, you know, those
people might not be the actual people

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that you want to reach down the line.

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So if you can reach other people.

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Do that.

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If you can't, start with what
you got, but yeah, you want to

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get a sense of whether people are
interested in what you're doing.

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Next is designing something putting
together a user experience flow,

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like getting a sense of how they
navigate through this product.

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If it is something with a user
interface, which in our cases, web and

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mobile apps, that's kind of a given.

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Then you will do that.

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So make sure that you've got the
screens mapped out, how they're

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going to move through your product.

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Again, this, this might.

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Be like, if you're doing it as a
newsletter, for example, or you're

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using an off the shelf platform.

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Like you might just want
to map that experience out.

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You might not need to have specific
visuals of what each interaction looks

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like, the way you would with a mobile app.

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If you are going to build something
like a mobile app or a website.

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You do want to have a good sense of.

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These are the types of components we're
going to need even if they're simple.

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Uses much off the shelf stuff as you can.

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There are plenty of libraries
out there that make it a lot

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easier to build user interfaces.

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Depending on what you're doing.

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You can use no code, low code builders.

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There's tools like Bubble, AppSheet.

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I don't know, there's
a bunch of other ones.

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Bubble is the one that comes up
most often for me, there's whole,

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agency's built around Bubble.

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So you can find service providers
who will build you products on this.

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No code.

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Low-code tool.

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Yeah.

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So you get something
designed put together.

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And then you build it on some level.

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If you are doing this with
a low-code no-code tool.

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Great.

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That's a, that's a good place to start.

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A lot of products in the context
that we're talking about, will

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eventually need a developer.

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So be aware but do not be put
off by the fact that if you start

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with a no-code tool You will.

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Often need to transition off of that
and that transition may be painful.

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But it is worth doing it that way
initially, if you can, because that is

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how you're going to validate that people
are going to give you dollars for it.

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And that's what the MVP is for.

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There are some things that are a
lot harder to do with off the shelf

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tools, and that's when you build.

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And this is where things sometimes
get a little difficult with folks

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who have a certain idea about what
they want to see in the world.

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Which is you're going to have to...

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Building building tech is hard.

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Writing good clean code.

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Feel free to not be so clean
at the beginning, right?

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Like you might have to scrap a
good bunch of this eventually.

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Build something fast.

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And be willing to
sacrifice on the aesthetic.

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Depending on your use case.

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I find that a lot of effort
put into aesthetics is wasted

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on productivity style tools.

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And it's, it's not wasted down the line.

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But upfront the people who
you want as your sort of.

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Your initial cohort and who
you're going to use to validate.

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I think you want people who
care more about what they get

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out of it than the experience.

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That being said, experience
can be a differentiator.

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So if there are other tools out there
that do what you want to do your MVP

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might be about saying, Hey, we don't
do everything that they do, but we

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provide you a better experience.

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So in that kind of context, feel
free to build something that is like

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really smooth looks really beautiful.

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Maybe does less, but that is the value
that you're trying to offer to people.

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I tend to find that with productivity
tools, you, you want to sacrifice on

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aesthetic for sort of consumer tools
you want to sacrifice on functionality.

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That's not always true but I think
aesthetic takes more effort than people

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think and functionality in my experience
often takes less effort than people think.

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Yeah, getting a really polished aesthetic
and smooth user experience and web or

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mobile app is actually really hard.

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Like doing it well is really, really hard.

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So if you can keep things
minimal clean simple.

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Good, but without making it really
beautiful and complex user inter

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interactions, user interface, elements
that move around, that would be amazing

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down the line, but that would take
actually a lot of time to build then

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that's, I think usually a good trade off.

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But it depends.

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And then, yeah.

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A thing that I think is really
important is if you're going to, if

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you're going to build this thing,
He want to measure what it's doing.

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Like you want to be able to
know, not just that people are

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using it and paying for it.

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But why and how?

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So it's really important that you
have at least ideally, and in, from my

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perspective, you should have analytics
tools installed in, in your products.

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Always.

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You can make decisions about what
kind of data you want to send how

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you want your users to consent
to that data being collected.

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But.

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Having something to get an
understanding of what people are doing.

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So that you can find.

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Faults in your product that
you can then improve on.

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But also to identify where things
really work, like are people doing

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a thing over and over and over
again, and obviously loving it.

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Or are they doing it over and over and
over again because it's not working

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and just gathering as much data.

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As you can intelligently, not, not
just vacuuming up everything, but

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really aiming for the things that you.

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Expect and have a qualified as pieces
of information that are valuable to your

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end users and really getting a sense
of those interactions around those.

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Yeah, those pieces of your
product is, is super valuable.

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We like to use tools like Segment.

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We've been using RudderStack
lately on a couple of products.

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And we use those tools to pipe data,
into other analytics tools like Mixpanel.

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Google's BigQuery, which we then hook up
to a Google data studio or Mixpanel and

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we can, we can just visualize stuff there.

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On websites it's really valuable
to have Google analytics, there's

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all kinds of analytics tools.

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Each of those have different use cases.

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It's also useful to have like with with
BigQuery, specifically having a data

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warehouse where you can just pump in.

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Your data from different
sources is also valuable.

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You don't need to get
complicated at the beginning.

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Just, I would say hookup Segment and
Mixpanel or RudderStack and Mixpanel.

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To me, those are, are the key tools.

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Just get a sense of what people are doing.

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Or if you're doing something that's
not technical, that you're not

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actually building out like a full.

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A full coded custom product.

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Make sure that you're hooking
into the analytics for the given

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platforms that you might be using,
whether it is something like Bubble.

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I don't know if they have
analytics built in you.

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Surely it can integrate with other
tools through them, but if you're doing

00:16:06.240 --> 00:16:10.350
a newsletter, for example, make sure
you get a good sense of like your open

00:16:10.350 --> 00:16:15.210
rate and click through rates and that
sort of thing, and really, really pay

00:16:15.210 --> 00:16:17.160
attention to what people are doing.

00:16:17.590 --> 00:16:22.950
And also ask them, like, if you can reach
out to those people and get a sense of

00:16:23.010 --> 00:16:24.990
why and how they're using your product.

00:16:25.650 --> 00:16:26.760
Do that a lot.

00:16:27.060 --> 00:16:30.660
I think, honestly, my favorite
thing is qualitative feedback.

00:16:31.060 --> 00:16:34.030
When you can really get a sense
of like how and why someone

00:16:34.450 --> 00:16:35.590
interacts with the product.

00:16:35.890 --> 00:16:36.970
I think that's amazing.

00:16:37.470 --> 00:16:37.860
Okay.

00:16:37.890 --> 00:16:43.290
So I'm going to give you a little sales
pitch from our end, which is twofold.

00:16:43.470 --> 00:16:46.080
First off, if you're thinking
of building a tech product.

00:16:47.070 --> 00:16:48.030
Whatever it might be.

00:16:48.530 --> 00:16:51.680
We're happy to talk to you
and help you figure it out.

00:16:52.050 --> 00:16:53.850
You can book a free consultation.

00:16:53.940 --> 00:16:56.340
I'm happy to honestly chat about.

00:16:56.760 --> 00:16:58.470
How you could do that
sort of thing, right?

00:16:58.520 --> 00:17:02.660
And if we chat for 30 minutes,
I can give you some ideas.

00:17:02.660 --> 00:17:05.540
If it's not something that you're
already aware of, how to do.

00:17:06.430 --> 00:17:11.020
If you do have something a bit more
substantial that you'd like to explore.

00:17:11.950 --> 00:17:16.330
We are really good at
whipping out products quickly.

00:17:16.750 --> 00:17:22.720
That are usable that are a
good starting point for someone

00:17:22.750 --> 00:17:24.700
to test their business model.

00:17:25.250 --> 00:17:29.000
We can also do bigger, more
full-fledged products, but I really

00:17:29.000 --> 00:17:32.750
think that one of the things that
we love is to test ideas with people

00:17:32.780 --> 00:17:35.690
and to get something off the ground.

00:17:35.720 --> 00:17:40.560
That is a good foundation to build
the rest of your product on top of.

00:17:41.250 --> 00:17:46.590
I think one of our strengths really
lies in figuring out what the needs are

00:17:46.650 --> 00:17:54.310
of our clients as businesses but also
exploring what their end users need.

00:17:54.970 --> 00:17:59.260
And figuring out how that intersects
with technology and design and really

00:17:59.260 --> 00:18:05.200
figuring out what are the right tools,
what are the right strategies to get

00:18:05.290 --> 00:18:11.260
from this idea to that initial value
that someone gets out of a product.

00:18:11.660 --> 00:18:17.360
So yeah, feel free to hit us up and we
can do  a free consultation or yeah,

00:18:17.390 --> 00:18:22.600
if you're further along, we're happy
to help you get something custom up and

00:18:22.600 --> 00:18:25.780
running and into people's hands that you
can start measuring and building off of.

00:18:26.280 --> 00:18:28.470
So, yeah, basically What did we cover?

00:18:28.520 --> 00:18:29.450
What is an MVP?

00:18:29.510 --> 00:18:34.310
It's the cheapest simplest
path to providing value to

00:18:34.310 --> 00:18:36.660
your customer as a product.

00:18:36.690 --> 00:18:40.440
Not necessarily as your final
product, but as a product.

00:18:40.740 --> 00:18:43.710
Yeah, I think we talked a little
bit about the structure of how

00:18:43.710 --> 00:18:45.270
you go about building something.

00:18:45.300 --> 00:18:48.690
Some of the options from a technical
and non-technical perspective,

00:18:48.720 --> 00:18:50.910
the no-code tools, low-code tools.

00:18:51.500 --> 00:18:54.620
And yeah, I think that's
that's pretty much it.

00:18:54.680 --> 00:18:59.150
I think that is most of what I
have to say about MVPs anyway.

00:18:59.660 --> 00:19:00.020
Yeah.

00:19:00.060 --> 00:19:04.010
What that word means to different
people is kind of interesting.

00:19:04.650 --> 00:19:08.610
Because it means a lot of different
things to a lot of different people.

00:19:09.110 --> 00:19:10.130
So, yeah.

00:19:10.160 --> 00:19:11.570
Thanks for listening folks.

00:19:11.600 --> 00:19:16.550
If you enjoy this stuff, please, please,
please like, and subscribe on YouTube.

00:19:16.550 --> 00:19:20.390
Leave a review in your podcast,
app of choice, and also subscribe

00:19:20.390 --> 00:19:22.160
in your podcast app of choice.

00:19:22.190 --> 00:19:25.040
That that is a thing that
is also helpful for us.

00:19:25.540 --> 00:19:28.600
We would love to hear
what you have to say.

00:19:28.600 --> 00:19:30.070
If you have questions also.

00:19:30.070 --> 00:19:30.550
Yeah.

00:19:30.580 --> 00:19:36.820
Leave us a question in the comments or
let us know what you think an MVP is.

00:19:36.820 --> 00:19:40.450
And have you built one, what
did you build and how did it go?

00:19:40.450 --> 00:19:43.000
And were you able to build
something bigger off of it?

00:19:43.500 --> 00:19:45.480
We would also love to have you.

00:19:45.980 --> 00:19:48.030
You there on the podcast.

00:19:48.060 --> 00:19:51.720
So if you want to talk to me on
this podcast, You want to talk

00:19:51.720 --> 00:19:57.360
about your startup journey or your
small tech journey, or you want

00:19:57.360 --> 00:20:00.780
to just talk about the tech world?

00:20:01.350 --> 00:20:03.780
Building products, that sort of thing.

00:20:04.140 --> 00:20:08.370
Then yeah, hit us up and we
will get you on this podcast.

00:20:08.870 --> 00:20:14.090
Also make sure to sign up for our
newsletter, the small tech newsletter,

00:20:14.090 --> 00:20:17.540
where we will be sharing all kinds
of stuff about building small tech

00:20:17.570 --> 00:20:22.060
products, including videos blog posts.

00:20:22.480 --> 00:20:26.950
Episodes that you may have
missed on this podcast.

00:20:27.450 --> 00:20:31.590
And plenty of other stuff, but
really mostly that stuff, but maybe

00:20:31.590 --> 00:20:34.350
other stuff, probably other stuff
there's going to be other stuff.

00:20:34.850 --> 00:20:40.880
So go to smalltechpodcast.com, where
you will see information, there will be

00:20:40.880 --> 00:20:45.950
buttons and links and stuff that will
guide you to the newsletter sign up.

00:20:46.400 --> 00:20:50.810
And we will see you in your
inbox at some point soon.

00:20:51.310 --> 00:20:52.540
Also a quick reminder.

00:20:52.840 --> 00:20:54.160
Free consultation.

00:20:54.550 --> 00:20:55.810
Like let me know.

00:20:55.900 --> 00:20:57.250
I am so happy.

00:20:57.250 --> 00:21:02.650
I love talking to folks about their
ideas and the possibilities, like

00:21:02.650 --> 00:21:04.120
the things that they could build.

00:21:04.490 --> 00:21:07.100
If you're someone who's interested
in building a tech product,

00:21:07.460 --> 00:21:09.710
And you're not a developer.

00:21:10.210 --> 00:21:13.480
Like that is, that is
my favorite thing to do.

00:21:14.020 --> 00:21:18.100
Is basically talking to people who
are not developers and helping them

00:21:18.100 --> 00:21:22.630
figure out what the possibilities
are like, what can you build?

00:21:22.940 --> 00:21:24.740
And really you can build anything.

00:21:25.520 --> 00:21:29.400
This is just a question of time
budget and some other stuff, but let's

00:21:29.400 --> 00:21:30.900
explore the possibilities together.

00:21:30.930 --> 00:21:32.460
So yeah, free consultation.

00:21:32.880 --> 00:21:33.660
Hit us up.

00:21:34.160 --> 00:21:38.300
So that's it for this week's
episode folks, and we all want to

00:21:38.300 --> 00:21:39.740
do something good in the world.

00:21:39.800 --> 00:21:43.640
So go out there and build
something good folks.

00:21:43.640 --> 00:21:45.320
I will see you next time.