WEBVTT 00:00:03.075 --> 00:00:06.525 Neil McPhedran: Welcome to a live recording of Continuing Studies, 00:00:06.925 --> 00:00:10.525 a podcast for higher education podcasters to learn and get inspired. 00:00:10.745 --> 00:00:14.285 I'm Neil McPhedran, founder of Podium Podcast Company. 00:00:14.385 --> 00:00:16.725 Jennifer-Lee: And I'm Jennifer-Lee, founder of JPod Creations. 00:00:17.005 --> 00:00:18.765 Broadcasting is podcasting. 00:00:18.785 --> 00:00:20.525 We want you to know you're not alone. 00:00:20.985 --> 00:00:24.325 In fact, there are many of you higher ed podcasters out there, and 00:00:24.325 --> 00:00:25.885 we can all learn from each other. 00:00:26.505 --> 00:00:34.165 Neil McPhedran: Jen, we are fresh back from the first inaugural Higher Ed PodCon. 00:00:34.185 --> 00:00:35.745 Speaking of learning from each other. 00:00:36.365 --> 00:00:37.705 Wow, that was incredible. 00:00:38.575 --> 00:00:41.745 Amazing sharing of podcasting. 00:00:42.045 --> 00:00:42.865 So much learning. 00:00:44.105 --> 00:00:45.485 So much community forming. 00:00:45.945 --> 00:00:47.045 It was fantastic. 00:00:47.435 --> 00:00:50.045 I've had so many emails, so many LinkedIn notes. 00:00:50.195 --> 00:00:51.365 It's just been phenomenal. 00:00:51.625 --> 00:00:53.125 Jennifer-Lee: I'm really proud of you and the team. 00:00:53.165 --> 00:00:56.525 I know it's something that you have been working on for a very long time, and it 00:00:56.525 --> 00:01:00.165 was really great to be there and do this live interview, but I felt pretty proud. 00:01:00.205 --> 00:01:04.125 I was sitting there as like, I know the people that put this on. 00:01:04.804 --> 00:01:05.345 Neil McPhedran: That's awesome. 00:01:05.455 --> 00:01:07.505 Yeah, I mean the, the conference was amazing. 00:01:08.255 --> 00:01:11.225 This episode is quite special. 00:01:11.405 --> 00:01:13.465 It was actually a lot fun to be on stage. 00:01:13.735 --> 00:01:14.024 Yeah. 00:01:14.024 --> 00:01:14.705 Long time coming. 00:01:14.725 --> 00:01:18.425 And it was fun to be up on a stage doing a live episode. 00:01:18.905 --> 00:01:22.104 I mean, I've been involved with live episodes before on the other 00:01:22.295 --> 00:01:26.304 sort of production end, but this is my first time recording a live 00:01:26.304 --> 00:01:28.745 episode of a podcast up on a stage. 00:01:28.745 --> 00:01:32.445 And we had almost 150 people that we were speaking to. 00:01:32.664 --> 00:01:37.324 And if you're curious, on this one, we speak with Matt Abrahams 00:01:37.514 --> 00:01:39.964 from Think Fast Talk Smart. 00:01:40.164 --> 00:01:46.445 Matt is a professor at the Stanford Graduate School of Business where he 00:01:46.445 --> 00:01:52.164 teaches strategic communication and we've been wanting to have him on for a while. 00:01:52.505 --> 00:01:57.735 And what better way to do it than to have him on live in front of an audience. 00:01:57.955 --> 00:02:00.175 So this was a really cool episode. 00:02:00.405 --> 00:02:02.294 Jennifer-Lee: Yeah, it makes me wanna do more live's too. 00:02:02.565 --> 00:02:03.255 Neil McPhedran: Yeah, me too. 00:02:03.615 --> 00:02:06.494 I, I did come outta that feeling the same way. 00:02:06.494 --> 00:02:08.574 Like, we should do more, do more live. 00:02:08.734 --> 00:02:09.174 I liked it. 00:02:09.234 --> 00:02:09.734 It was fun. 00:02:10.134 --> 00:02:11.255 Jennifer-Lee: So, let's get into it. 00:02:12.674 --> 00:02:19.365 Gregg Oldring: So we have, for us today, the hosts Neil McPhedran and Jennifer-Lee 00:02:23.644 --> 00:02:26.655 here to interview and record as an episode. 00:02:27.555 --> 00:02:32.095 Our keynote today has had 215 episodes over five years. 00:02:32.545 --> 00:02:38.095 68 million plays, 2,600,000 followers. 00:02:38.565 --> 00:02:43.615 It's the number one careers podcast in 125 countries. 00:02:44.045 --> 00:02:51.545 The host of Think Fast Talk Smart, Stanford GSB Lecturer, Matt Abrahams. 00:02:51.795 --> 00:02:52.144 Jennifer-Lee: Hello. 00:02:52.394 --> 00:02:52.744 Matt Abrahams: Hello. 00:02:53.315 --> 00:02:54.024 Neil McPhedran: Hello, Matt. 00:02:54.035 --> 00:02:54.385 Matt Abrahams: Hello. 00:02:55.174 --> 00:02:56.625 Neil McPhedran: Matt, are you ready to get started? 00:02:57.274 --> 00:02:57.984 Matt Abrahams: Let's get started. 00:02:58.045 --> 00:02:58.265 Yes. 00:02:58.595 --> 00:02:59.024 Neil McPhedran: Let's go. 00:02:59.024 --> 00:03:00.025 Matt Abrahams: That's an inside joke. 00:03:00.084 --> 00:03:00.304 Yes. 00:03:01.065 --> 00:03:03.265 Jennifer-Lee: I am not part of it, so I don't know what's going on. 00:03:04.755 --> 00:03:07.704 Neil McPhedran: Let's start with why did you launch Think Fast, Talk Smart? 00:03:08.540 --> 00:03:10.510 Matt Abrahams: Well first thank you all for being here. 00:03:10.780 --> 00:03:15.070 Some of us had quite the time to get here and I appreciate people being here. 00:03:15.130 --> 00:03:18.030 So Think Fast, Talk Smart started as an experiment. 00:03:18.350 --> 00:03:20.190 I lectured Stanford's Business School. 00:03:20.450 --> 00:03:24.670 I'd been there probably five or six years, and I had done a talk, and 00:03:24.670 --> 00:03:28.550 the whole story behind the talk is interesting in and of itself, that 00:03:28.550 --> 00:03:30.430 ended up doing pretty well on YouTube. 00:03:31.170 --> 00:03:34.589 As a result, the school marketing comms team at the GSB 00:03:35.170 --> 00:03:36.630 wanted to get into podcasting. 00:03:36.630 --> 00:03:38.390 They'd never really done podcasting. 00:03:38.390 --> 00:03:41.429 They'd taken classes and edited them and called them podcasts, 00:03:41.429 --> 00:03:42.309 but they really weren't. 00:03:42.649 --> 00:03:44.109 And they said, hey, we want to try it. 00:03:44.209 --> 00:03:46.429 And you know, when it comes to trying it, we know that there's 00:03:46.429 --> 00:03:49.350 an interest in communication because of how this talk had done. 00:03:50.475 --> 00:03:53.415 And I teach strategic communication. 00:03:53.635 --> 00:03:57.135 An area of focus is around how to manage anxiety and stress 00:03:57.155 --> 00:03:58.495 and communication situations. 00:03:58.495 --> 00:04:02.135 So they figured this guy probably won't get too nervous if we have him do it. 00:04:02.475 --> 00:04:03.895 And so they asked, do you want to try it? 00:04:04.035 --> 00:04:04.695 And I said, sure. 00:04:04.755 --> 00:04:08.375 And so it was really an experiment to try new ways of getting information 00:04:08.525 --> 00:04:10.454 from the school out to the world. 00:04:11.265 --> 00:04:14.285 Jennifer-Lee: And has your vision changed over the years of doing it, 00:04:14.385 --> 00:04:16.324 or is it kind of still the same thing? 00:04:16.475 --> 00:04:18.965 Matt Abrahams: Well, we learned a lot, and I assume all of you working on 00:04:18.965 --> 00:04:21.725 your podcast have learned a lot if you listen to what the listeners tell you. 00:04:21.745 --> 00:04:25.725 So we started thinking we were a business podcast and then the world 00:04:25.725 --> 00:04:27.485 told us we are a careers podcast. 00:04:27.824 --> 00:04:29.845 And while similar, they're slightly different. 00:04:30.064 --> 00:04:34.645 So our direction changed a little bit knowing that we really want to help people 00:04:34.674 --> 00:04:36.365 hone and develop their communication. 00:04:36.965 --> 00:04:40.725 We'd gotten a little tighter in the way we approach each episode 00:04:40.745 --> 00:04:42.084 in terms of length and things. 00:04:42.385 --> 00:04:45.444 But our, our experimental vision, I think is still there. 00:04:45.444 --> 00:04:46.804 We still try lots of new things. 00:04:46.865 --> 00:04:49.084 Our goal is to help people and to have fun as we do it. 00:04:49.105 --> 00:04:53.444 So we've stayed that course, but we've become much more professional for sure. 00:04:53.544 --> 00:04:58.510 We were total Motley crew when we started and it was all MacGyvered with duct 00:04:58.510 --> 00:05:02.070 tape and everything, and now we're a little more professional as we do it. 00:05:02.350 --> 00:05:03.590 Jennifer-Lee: I feel like that's how we all started. 00:05:03.970 --> 00:05:07.669 Neil McPhedran: So when you launched, what sort of support did you get from the GSB 00:05:07.730 --> 00:05:13.270 and how did you navigate getting attention at the GSB sort of in a sea of egos? 00:05:13.520 --> 00:05:14.669 Matt Abrahams: There are no egos. 00:05:14.669 --> 00:05:15.110 What do you mean? 00:05:15.110 --> 00:05:16.630 In academia, there are no egos. 00:05:17.010 --> 00:05:21.225 Uh, at first, I didn't know what I didn't know, so I thought we 00:05:21.225 --> 00:05:22.385 were getting wonderful support. 00:05:22.454 --> 00:05:24.265 They came to us and they said, hey, we have this team. 00:05:24.265 --> 00:05:24.905 We're gonna do this. 00:05:24.914 --> 00:05:25.385 Let's go. 00:05:25.765 --> 00:05:28.544 And then as we started growing, it became very apparent that 00:05:28.564 --> 00:05:29.824 we needed a lot more support. 00:05:30.084 --> 00:05:36.184 Now mind you, we released our very first episode in January of 2020, and six weeks 00:05:36.235 --> 00:05:38.105 later, literally the world shut down. 00:05:38.324 --> 00:05:40.465 And so that, we were actually canceled. 00:05:41.400 --> 00:05:44.579 So the business school said, you know, pandemic, we're shutting down. 00:05:44.760 --> 00:05:45.419 No more podcast. 00:05:45.839 --> 00:05:47.579 And we had done so much work. 00:05:47.600 --> 00:05:49.260 We had six episodes in the can. 00:05:49.600 --> 00:05:52.819 We released two on our first week and then we were gonna go 00:05:52.819 --> 00:05:54.459 week after, weekly after that. 00:05:55.120 --> 00:05:59.339 And because we were shut down, or they were shutting us down, and we were all 00:05:59.809 --> 00:06:03.980 home bound, I said, what if you let me keep it going and I'll manage it? 00:06:04.319 --> 00:06:05.539 And they said, okay, why not? 00:06:05.919 --> 00:06:09.980 And so my two high school boys and I produced the podcast for six months 00:06:10.775 --> 00:06:13.075 on my younger son's gaming computer. 00:06:13.575 --> 00:06:15.835 And he would get pissed off whenever I'd have to do an interview. 00:06:15.865 --> 00:06:17.794 He'd be like, you're taking away from my gaming time. 00:06:18.335 --> 00:06:22.475 And my, and my older son knew how to edit audio, so we had 00:06:22.475 --> 00:06:23.755 no support for six months. 00:06:24.015 --> 00:06:26.355 And you can hear it if you listen to those old episodes, for sure. 00:06:26.575 --> 00:06:30.794 If there was a silver lining in the pandemic, people wanted to know, how 00:06:30.794 --> 00:06:32.395 do we communicate in this new world? 00:06:33.095 --> 00:06:35.515 People had a lot of time to start listening because 00:06:35.515 --> 00:06:36.554 there was nothing else to do. 00:06:36.695 --> 00:06:40.534 So we actually saw a sharp increase in our listenership through the pandemic. 00:06:40.674 --> 00:06:44.294 And when we came back from it and we were still around, that's when 00:06:44.294 --> 00:06:47.044 I started to negotiate with some of the folks in marketing and 00:06:47.205 --> 00:06:48.604 communications, and they saw the impact. 00:06:49.145 --> 00:06:53.244 It is tricky to help people understand the value of podcasting. 00:06:53.284 --> 00:06:56.684 I think today people see it regardless of your political views. 00:06:56.844 --> 00:07:01.180 I think this most recent presidential campaign help people see the value 00:07:01.200 --> 00:07:04.700 of podcasts and the relationship that podcasters have with their listeners. 00:07:05.280 --> 00:07:10.380 So it was less difficult as podcasting became more prominent. 00:07:10.490 --> 00:07:12.780 What was more difficult is we needed more resources. 00:07:12.840 --> 00:07:16.460 As we grew it cost us more money to do the things we wanted to do. 00:07:17.669 --> 00:07:20.449 Jennifer-Lee: And obviously you're really good at getting people to work 00:07:20.469 --> 00:07:24.969 and using any of your resources around you, like your children, but maybe if 00:07:24.969 --> 00:07:28.849 we don't have children, how do we, you know, when we're first starting out, 00:07:29.650 --> 00:07:31.210 maximize people around us to help us? 00:07:31.210 --> 00:07:32.929 Because as you know, they take a lot of time. 00:07:32.949 --> 00:07:34.849 You said sometimes money. 00:07:35.209 --> 00:07:35.889 They're a lot of work. 00:07:35.960 --> 00:07:36.249 Matt Abrahams: Yeah. 00:07:36.569 --> 00:07:37.889 Podcasts certainly are a lot of work. 00:07:38.009 --> 00:07:39.650 I don't have to explain that to people here. 00:07:40.330 --> 00:07:45.189 So I leverage, uh, this summer I have six interns from, they are undergraduates, 00:07:45.189 --> 00:07:46.830 some from Stanford and some elsewhere. 00:07:46.889 --> 00:07:48.830 So anybody who's interested, we put to work. 00:07:49.590 --> 00:07:50.489 And that's a lot of fun. 00:07:50.590 --> 00:07:53.249 As a teacher, I just like working with people, learning from 00:07:53.249 --> 00:07:54.450 people, helping people learn. 00:07:54.789 --> 00:07:59.289 So we have always had volunteers, people who we pay, not a lot of money, 00:07:59.390 --> 00:08:00.849 who just want to get the experience. 00:08:01.229 --> 00:08:04.169 Any of you who are on faculty, writing letters of recommendation 00:08:04.189 --> 00:08:06.129 is a great incentive for students. 00:08:06.749 --> 00:08:09.689 And students like being able to put on their resume that they worked 00:08:09.749 --> 00:08:11.450 on a show that contributed value. 00:08:12.030 --> 00:08:13.650 And I think it helps differentiate them. 00:08:13.710 --> 00:08:15.489 So leveraging lots of resources. 00:08:15.599 --> 00:08:20.169 Finding ways to collaborate with others at the university, talking to the folks in 00:08:20.169 --> 00:08:22.770 marketing communications and their teams. 00:08:23.159 --> 00:08:26.169 They have a lot of people who are great at social media and other things, and 00:08:26.169 --> 00:08:27.409 they're always looking for content. 00:08:28.030 --> 00:08:30.850 One of the things that we spend a lot of time thinking about is how 00:08:30.850 --> 00:08:35.049 do we slice and dice our content and what can we do to make it one, to 00:08:35.049 --> 00:08:36.770 help us, but also to help others. 00:08:36.909 --> 00:08:39.530 So there are lots of ways to get people connected and involved. 00:08:40.169 --> 00:08:42.669 Neil McPhedran: So let's talk about some of that growth and global 00:08:42.669 --> 00:08:44.310 reach that Gregg shared with us. 00:08:44.570 --> 00:08:45.710 Was there a tipping point? 00:08:45.890 --> 00:08:49.030 Was there sort of a point where you, I mean, obviously you started in the 00:08:49.030 --> 00:08:52.830 first episode, had a few downloads and a few listens, and here we are today. 00:08:52.940 --> 00:08:54.150 What was that tipping point? 00:08:54.170 --> 00:08:55.550 Can you point to anything along the way? 00:08:55.930 --> 00:08:57.830 Matt Abrahams: You know, I've reflected on this for a long time. 00:08:58.050 --> 00:08:59.510 I'm not exactly sure. 00:08:59.950 --> 00:09:05.270 I know the pandemic helped, but we somehow, the appetite for 00:09:05.270 --> 00:09:08.194 the topic, I think is really, is one of the big reasons. 00:09:08.854 --> 00:09:12.275 We are very short bite size, 20 minute episodes. 00:09:12.365 --> 00:09:15.235 Every episode the goal is that somebody can finish listening 00:09:15.235 --> 00:09:16.675 and apply something right away. 00:09:17.074 --> 00:09:19.515 I think it is the applied nature of it that really helped. 00:09:20.015 --> 00:09:22.515 But I really can't say this happened on this date and 00:09:22.515 --> 00:09:23.875 that's where we really exploded. 00:09:24.035 --> 00:09:27.635 I just think it's, we always encourage people to share and to 00:09:27.655 --> 00:09:31.074 let others know about the show, but it's really hard to tell. 00:09:31.810 --> 00:09:35.749 And as Neil knows, Neil helps me produce the show, every time I think a show's 00:09:35.749 --> 00:09:37.829 gonna be really bad, it does really well. 00:09:38.170 --> 00:09:41.430 And so I'm not really good at understanding that kind of thing. 00:09:41.530 --> 00:09:43.269 So we just are riding the wave. 00:09:43.649 --> 00:09:46.550 Jennifer-Lee: And because you've had such huge growth, and congratulations on 00:09:46.550 --> 00:09:48.714 that and the number one careers podcast. 00:09:48.854 --> 00:09:49.515 That's amazing. 00:09:49.655 --> 00:09:50.995 You're now moving the show. 00:09:50.995 --> 00:09:52.275 You've just recently done this. 00:09:52.275 --> 00:09:54.474 You're now independent from GSB. 00:09:54.625 --> 00:09:56.474 What was your decision around that? 00:09:56.614 --> 00:09:57.395 Why did you do that? 00:09:57.694 --> 00:10:01.795 Matt Abrahams: So we, in September, it will be a year as an independent podcast. 00:10:01.974 --> 00:10:05.155 If you would've asked me at my age, would I be a social media entrepreneur, 00:10:05.234 --> 00:10:06.314 I would've said, you're crazy. 00:10:06.574 --> 00:10:07.915 But apparently I am now. 00:10:08.214 --> 00:10:10.474 The problem was this, all of us who work in academic 00:10:10.474 --> 00:10:12.275 institutions, things move slowly. 00:10:13.005 --> 00:10:15.064 And we, podcasting does not. 00:10:15.285 --> 00:10:18.545 And so we were constantly running up against issues. 00:10:18.805 --> 00:10:21.185 It was, I call it a conscious uncoupling. 00:10:21.324 --> 00:10:22.865 The business school was very kind. 00:10:22.964 --> 00:10:24.464 We negotiated a separation. 00:10:24.725 --> 00:10:27.665 We are working very carefully and closely, hand in hand. 00:10:27.694 --> 00:10:28.944 They are just not paying the bills. 00:10:29.165 --> 00:10:30.464 We are now paying the bills. 00:10:30.915 --> 00:10:33.464 We're still supporting them, and they still support us. 00:10:33.485 --> 00:10:35.105 So it's actually the best of both worlds. 00:10:35.824 --> 00:10:38.685 We can move with the speed with which we need to move, we can 00:10:38.685 --> 00:10:40.084 make decisions more quickly. 00:10:40.435 --> 00:10:45.525 They still get the benefit of us helping bring eyeballs and ears to content. 00:10:45.905 --> 00:10:48.084 So I think everybody's very happy with how it's come out. 00:10:48.640 --> 00:10:49.219 Jennifer-Lee: That's great. 00:10:49.250 --> 00:10:52.380 Something else that you've started adding, which I know there's a lot 00:10:52.380 --> 00:10:55.699 of conversations at every conference about this, video to podcast. 00:10:56.560 --> 00:10:57.540 Now you're doing video. 00:10:57.990 --> 00:10:58.780 Again, why? 00:10:58.780 --> 00:11:01.020 Because that's more work, more resources. 00:11:01.170 --> 00:11:01.459 Matt Abrahams: Yeah. 00:11:01.459 --> 00:11:04.860 Video is expensive, and for me, what's important is high quality video. 00:11:05.130 --> 00:11:06.900 It's where podcasting is going. 00:11:07.130 --> 00:11:09.500 YouTube is the biggest discovery engine. 00:11:09.939 --> 00:11:14.204 I believe YouTube will very much lead where podcasting is going. 00:11:14.204 --> 00:11:18.964 Spotify and others are certainly involved in it, and so we're moving towards it. 00:11:18.994 --> 00:11:19.964 It's harder to edit. 00:11:20.265 --> 00:11:23.925 You have to think differently as a host and how you interact with 00:11:23.925 --> 00:11:25.124 people when people can see it. 00:11:25.425 --> 00:11:26.364 But I actually like it. 00:11:26.435 --> 00:11:26.964 It's fun. 00:11:26.984 --> 00:11:30.964 We get to do some more creative things and it certainly allows us to do more on 00:11:30.964 --> 00:11:33.745 social, which has been very helpful to us. 00:11:34.125 --> 00:11:35.344 So we're slowly there. 00:11:35.405 --> 00:11:37.064 Not every episode we do is video. 00:11:37.204 --> 00:11:40.344 We are getting more and more to that point, and we've made some recent 00:11:40.704 --> 00:11:42.145 decisions to really lean into it. 00:11:42.165 --> 00:11:46.305 The biggest challenge is cost and venue and figuring out how to do that. 00:11:46.405 --> 00:11:48.425 Neil McPhedran: So what's your strategy then for video? 00:11:49.125 --> 00:11:52.785 Produce full episodes, and then are you producing shorts and clips? 00:11:53.349 --> 00:11:53.569 Matt Abrahams: Yes. 00:11:53.670 --> 00:11:56.980 So we record in video, we use Squadcast. 00:11:57.000 --> 00:11:59.370 Some of you use Riverside, use Zoom, whatever. 00:11:59.630 --> 00:12:03.650 If I can, if the guest is local or I'm proximal to them, we'll actually 00:12:03.650 --> 00:12:04.930 go into a real studio and do it. 00:12:05.030 --> 00:12:07.689 We record it on video, edit it in Descript. 00:12:07.709 --> 00:12:09.650 We create an audio version of the podcast. 00:12:09.839 --> 00:12:13.489 That audio version then serves as the guide for editing the video version. 00:12:13.949 --> 00:12:18.050 And then we clip and cut, and we're trying to get very creative with that 00:12:18.050 --> 00:12:21.510 and the folks who do that work for us are in the room, so they can give 00:12:21.510 --> 00:12:22.870 you more input on how they do it. 00:12:23.330 --> 00:12:24.870 But it just takes more time now. 00:12:24.870 --> 00:12:27.390 We have to post across all the different platforms and then when 00:12:27.390 --> 00:12:30.189 you post, you have to respond to people who respond to your posts. 00:12:30.330 --> 00:12:33.310 So there's this whole machinery that you have to build to make it work. 00:12:33.330 --> 00:12:36.189 But it's been fun and I love engaging with our listeners. 00:12:36.260 --> 00:12:39.830 There's nothing more satisfying to me than when a listener will write and say 00:12:39.850 --> 00:12:41.790 how the podcast has impacted their lives. 00:12:42.070 --> 00:12:43.030 'Cause that's really why we do it. 00:12:43.130 --> 00:12:46.660 For four and a half years, we were non-profit and we're not making any money. 00:12:46.719 --> 00:12:48.580 We're barely covering our costs now. 00:12:48.640 --> 00:12:49.699 So we do it to help people. 00:12:49.920 --> 00:12:52.939 And so video is another way of reaching out to these folks. 00:12:53.199 --> 00:12:56.620 Jennifer-Lee: And whether it's recording in a studio or recording virtually, 00:12:56.770 --> 00:13:01.129 obviously there's a lot of challenges to video to make it look professional 00:13:01.150 --> 00:13:03.770 and polished, and you always wanna make sure you have good sound regardless. 00:13:04.189 --> 00:13:08.050 So for people thinking in this room, hey, I don't have video yet to my 00:13:08.050 --> 00:13:09.650 podcast, but I should probably do it. 00:13:09.650 --> 00:13:11.969 What do you think the advantages are of it and why? 00:13:12.239 --> 00:13:14.770 Matt Abrahams: Well, certainly a disadvantage is people get to see 00:13:14.770 --> 00:13:17.449 this, and I can't tell you the number of people say, oh, you don't look 00:13:17.850 --> 00:13:19.830 the way I thought you did, or would. 00:13:20.210 --> 00:13:22.190 So there are many advantages. 00:13:22.410 --> 00:13:24.750 One I think is people are more engaged by it. 00:13:24.890 --> 00:13:27.990 We live in a world where attention is our most precious commodity, 00:13:28.170 --> 00:13:29.950 and video draws more attention. 00:13:30.330 --> 00:13:31.550 And so I think that's one. 00:13:31.770 --> 00:13:34.110 Two, you can do some really interesting things with video. 00:13:34.210 --> 00:13:39.590 You can cut in other video, you can put in animations in 00:13:39.590 --> 00:13:40.990 ways that you can't with audio. 00:13:41.410 --> 00:13:44.550 And what's important to me is the educational aspect of what we do. 00:13:44.550 --> 00:13:46.830 There are just more tools in the toolkit when you have video. 00:13:47.444 --> 00:13:50.944 So it, it opens it up to help us achieve our goal more. 00:13:51.285 --> 00:13:57.585 And I mean, bottom line is it's where all of the providers want you to be. 00:13:57.765 --> 00:13:58.985 So you're gonna get more love. 00:13:59.265 --> 00:14:03.385 I can tell you very specifically that we have been told by some platforms that 00:14:03.564 --> 00:14:07.105 if you're aren't on video, if you're audio only, you're not gonna get the 00:14:07.105 --> 00:14:09.625 love that will help you expand and reach. 00:14:09.725 --> 00:14:13.305 So it is in their best interest to push video and therefore 00:14:13.314 --> 00:14:14.465 we're playing that game. 00:14:15.119 --> 00:14:16.979 Neil McPhedran: So let's talk about what's next. 00:14:17.489 --> 00:14:19.739 What are you and the team focused on? 00:14:19.810 --> 00:14:23.099 What new channels, innovations, what's on the horizon? 00:14:23.560 --> 00:14:27.699 Matt Abrahams: So I've been reflecting a lot about AI and its impact on 00:14:27.699 --> 00:14:29.660 everything, but podcasting in particular. 00:14:29.920 --> 00:14:33.540 And I am convinced, and I would love to have a discussion and debate 00:14:33.609 --> 00:14:36.739 with any of you, 'cause I'm really trying to formulate these opinions. 00:14:37.819 --> 00:14:41.380 I think the role of podcasting and providing content is 00:14:41.420 --> 00:14:42.619 a ice cube that's melting. 00:14:43.470 --> 00:14:48.150 I think that creating content is now commoditized. 00:14:49.050 --> 00:14:55.790 The value I believe we bring is in curation and in community. 00:14:56.330 --> 00:15:01.550 And where we are taking our podcast is more, we're still gonna release, we're 00:15:01.550 --> 00:15:05.030 gonna do everything we've been doing, but I really wanna focus on curating 00:15:05.030 --> 00:15:10.150 content, helping the listeners who've chosen to listen to us find the content 00:15:10.290 --> 00:15:11.870 that's important and relevant to them. 00:15:12.555 --> 00:15:15.095 And then build a community where like-minded people can 00:15:15.095 --> 00:15:16.295 come together and interact. 00:15:16.815 --> 00:15:21.014 I really think just putting out content is, we're on a cliff. 00:15:21.689 --> 00:15:24.129 I think there's so many places and so many other ways that 00:15:24.129 --> 00:15:25.530 people can get content now. 00:15:25.719 --> 00:15:29.969 What we have to bring is the creativity and the curation and the 00:15:29.969 --> 00:15:32.849 community that breeds connection to really make the difference. 00:15:32.849 --> 00:15:34.449 So we are really focusing on that. 00:15:34.659 --> 00:15:37.530 We're building out a community hub where people will be able to access it. 00:15:37.589 --> 00:15:39.249 And when I say community, I wanna be very clear. 00:15:39.349 --> 00:15:42.129 I'm not talking about a premium offering where you get to listen to more content 00:15:42.129 --> 00:15:43.649 without ads or anything like that. 00:15:43.709 --> 00:15:44.369 That's important. 00:15:44.509 --> 00:15:45.249 And we have one of those. 00:15:45.779 --> 00:15:48.560 But I'm talking about a place where people can come together and interact. 00:15:48.560 --> 00:15:49.519 I'll give you a few ideas. 00:15:49.739 --> 00:15:51.719 We have a lot of guests on who have books. 00:15:52.050 --> 00:15:55.119 We're gonna start hosting book clubs in our community. 00:15:55.499 --> 00:15:58.560 We have people who are very interested in very specific skills 00:15:58.629 --> 00:15:59.919 that we cover in our podcast. 00:16:00.129 --> 00:16:03.040 We're gonna have threads and channels where people can meet with others, 00:16:03.189 --> 00:16:04.839 some will mediate, some we won't. 00:16:05.019 --> 00:16:05.919 We might offer courses. 00:16:06.219 --> 00:16:09.839 The whole idea is to bring people together where they can interact. 00:16:10.019 --> 00:16:14.159 That's what makes what I think all of us do special, and it builds a 00:16:14.189 --> 00:16:19.579 moat around the ubiquity of content creation that AI has now allowed for. 00:16:19.679 --> 00:16:23.179 So that's where we're headed, and I'm excited about it because I 00:16:23.179 --> 00:16:26.179 think we can really help people in a deeper, more connected way. 00:16:26.280 --> 00:16:28.699 Jennifer-Lee: And that authentic communication connection is something 00:16:28.699 --> 00:16:30.859 that I don't think anyone can replace. 00:16:31.050 --> 00:16:34.000 But that being said, you did touch upon AI. 00:16:34.139 --> 00:16:37.639 Are there other things as higher ed podcasters that we should be 00:16:37.639 --> 00:16:40.720 thinking about in the next two years or trying or experimenting with? 00:16:41.000 --> 00:16:42.800 Matt Abrahams: I would love to hear from all of you, 'cause I'm still 00:16:42.800 --> 00:16:44.000 trying to figure this thing out. 00:16:44.179 --> 00:16:46.240 We certainly leverage AI in the work we do. 00:16:46.460 --> 00:16:48.899 It helps me create the questions I ask. 00:16:48.899 --> 00:16:50.579 It helps me find guests. 00:16:50.869 --> 00:16:54.994 I know for sure it helps us create some of our social posts we create 00:16:55.305 --> 00:16:59.994 with Canva and AI, we put together things that our audience is digesting 00:16:59.994 --> 00:17:02.714 and liking much better than what we used to do because of AI. 00:17:03.035 --> 00:17:05.755 I would love to hear from all of you how you see using AI. 00:17:05.804 --> 00:17:08.324 We're still playing with it and trying to figure it out. 00:17:08.520 --> 00:17:12.560 I know that because we have so much content out there that we've been 00:17:12.560 --> 00:17:14.599 able to create our own chat bot. 00:17:14.619 --> 00:17:17.880 So we're gonna release a chat bot soon where we've ingested all of 00:17:17.880 --> 00:17:21.159 our episodes, talks and writings from my guests and that I've done. 00:17:21.259 --> 00:17:24.719 And you can actually go now and query the podcast in essence. 00:17:24.739 --> 00:17:27.599 So if you're somebody who has a job interview coming up, 00:17:27.619 --> 00:17:28.839 you can go to our chat bot. 00:17:28.839 --> 00:17:30.259 We're calling it Chat Matt. 00:17:30.279 --> 00:17:32.600 I wanted Matt GPT, but I couldn't get the URL. 00:17:32.860 --> 00:17:36.915 You can go type it in and you'll get a response from the collective 00:17:37.755 --> 00:17:42.634 learnings of the podcast, and it'll also spit out the episodes that it 00:17:42.634 --> 00:17:44.034 drew from to give you that answer. 00:17:44.054 --> 00:17:45.995 So it's a way of driving more listens as well. 00:17:46.174 --> 00:17:47.594 I'd love to hear how others are using it. 00:17:47.665 --> 00:17:48.955 Neil McPhedran: What about other languages? 00:17:49.295 --> 00:17:50.674 Are you exploring that? 00:17:50.984 --> 00:17:51.514 Matt Abrahams: It's so funny. 00:17:51.545 --> 00:17:53.965 He's asking questions he knows the answers to. 00:17:54.054 --> 00:17:57.300 Uh, yes, so we have quite a global reach. 00:17:57.320 --> 00:18:00.860 We have many more people who listen to us outside the US than inside the US. 00:18:01.239 --> 00:18:04.580 And we are exploring translating the podcast. 00:18:05.110 --> 00:18:07.659 First audio, and then we might explore doing video. 00:18:07.949 --> 00:18:10.020 We're looking to do Hindi and Spanish first. 00:18:10.775 --> 00:18:14.384 Primarily because we know we have large audiences in those regions, 00:18:14.725 --> 00:18:18.505 and the tools that we're looking to use are better in those languages 00:18:18.505 --> 00:18:21.384 than some of the other languages where we do well internationally. 00:18:21.614 --> 00:18:22.264 It's exciting. 00:18:22.444 --> 00:18:24.145 We have worries about translation. 00:18:24.205 --> 00:18:27.904 We don't want to cannibalize our English language channel, so we're trying 00:18:27.904 --> 00:18:29.344 to be creative on how we do this. 00:18:29.915 --> 00:18:32.795 But we think we can help more people if we translate. 00:18:32.815 --> 00:18:35.475 And of course, for what we do, our topic is communication. 00:18:35.734 --> 00:18:38.634 We have to be very sensitive to the cultural differences and norms. 00:18:38.774 --> 00:18:42.955 We don't want to imply that the way we do it here in the US is the right 00:18:42.955 --> 00:18:44.114 way to do it in other cultures. 00:18:44.114 --> 00:18:45.274 So there are a lot of issues at play. 00:18:45.455 --> 00:18:46.154 I'm really excited. 00:18:46.185 --> 00:18:49.835 It's really freaky if you've not done this to hear your voice 00:18:50.154 --> 00:18:51.154 speaking a different language. 00:18:51.335 --> 00:18:52.995 So they'll actually take your voice and do it. 00:18:53.034 --> 00:18:55.444 I heard myself speak German, French and Spanish. 00:18:55.594 --> 00:18:56.484 They sent me the file. 00:18:56.594 --> 00:18:57.245 Just bizarre. 00:18:57.344 --> 00:18:58.364 Jennifer-Lee: So no one's dubbing you. 00:18:58.594 --> 00:18:59.165 It's all you. 00:18:59.395 --> 00:19:01.205 Matt Abrahams: Well, it's my voice that they've programmed to do it. 00:19:01.205 --> 00:19:01.645 Jennifer-Lee: Awesome. 00:19:01.645 --> 00:19:04.364 Well, speaking of communication, we're kind of having a meta moment 00:19:04.574 --> 00:19:08.324 right now because we're interviewing an amazing interviewer and I've been 00:19:08.324 --> 00:19:09.284 wanting to interview for a long time. 00:19:09.284 --> 00:19:11.085 Neil knows this, so I'm very excited about this. 00:19:11.185 --> 00:19:13.645 But what do you think makes a great interview? 00:19:13.795 --> 00:19:14.404 Matt Abrahams: Curiosity. 00:19:15.004 --> 00:19:19.574 Curiosity and listening deeply, and combining those two. 00:19:19.915 --> 00:19:23.335 If there's anything that I have really worked on to help, I really work on 00:19:23.335 --> 00:19:28.455 paraphrasing and trying to take what the person has said, digest it, and then 00:19:28.904 --> 00:19:33.734 share it in a way that helps, I hope, drive home for people the key point. 00:19:33.794 --> 00:19:34.855 And then connecting. 00:19:34.875 --> 00:19:37.335 So I think it's, it's about listening, being curious and 00:19:37.335 --> 00:19:41.384 paraphrasing, and that's what I really try to do as I interview folks. 00:19:41.679 --> 00:19:42.580 And editing helps. 00:19:42.710 --> 00:19:43.380 Let's face it. 00:19:43.759 --> 00:19:46.259 You know, people say, Matt, you're so fluent in everything. 00:19:46.259 --> 00:19:48.980 And I'm like, yeah, there's a lot of editing that's going on behind the scenes. 00:19:49.440 --> 00:19:54.100 Neil McPhedran: Any rituals, little techniques that you can share with the 00:19:54.300 --> 00:19:55.580 audience here when they're interviewing? 00:19:56.335 --> 00:19:57.625 Matt Abrahams: What are you trying to get at there? 00:19:58.004 --> 00:19:58.665 Jennifer-Lee: The secrets. 00:19:59.404 --> 00:20:00.904 Matt Abrahams: So I do a few things. 00:20:01.125 --> 00:20:04.864 One, everybody who helps me who's in this room knows I'm perpetually 00:20:04.895 --> 00:20:08.904 late, so they are often sitting on the call with a guest before I show up. 00:20:09.364 --> 00:20:14.025 One of the reasons I'm late is I always warm up before I do an interview. 00:20:14.165 --> 00:20:17.145 For me, doing interviews are very exciting, but they're draining because 00:20:17.284 --> 00:20:19.145 I'm super focused on what's going on. 00:20:19.484 --> 00:20:20.304 So I warm up. 00:20:20.464 --> 00:20:24.504 I, I say a tongue twister multiple times just to get my mouth and voice going. 00:20:25.225 --> 00:20:27.844 And I really take some deep breaths and do some things to really help. 00:20:27.945 --> 00:20:29.764 So there is a ritual that I go through. 00:20:29.965 --> 00:20:34.125 I, I'm superstitious and ritual bound, so I make sure to do those things. 00:20:34.784 --> 00:20:36.965 And I always challenge myself. 00:20:36.985 --> 00:20:39.324 We always record the tease at the beginning. 00:20:40.100 --> 00:20:43.159 The way our show starts is I start hopefully with something provocative, 00:20:43.159 --> 00:20:46.199 and then I introduce the guest, and I, I always challenge myself. 00:20:46.580 --> 00:20:47.400 To me, it's a game. 00:20:47.460 --> 00:20:48.880 What's the tease going to be? 00:20:48.940 --> 00:20:52.199 So in the interview, I'm constantly thinking, what's this 00:20:52.380 --> 00:20:54.960 one thing that will get people excited to listen to the episode? 00:20:55.020 --> 00:20:57.799 So that's part of my ritual as well, is I'm always playing this game. 00:20:58.270 --> 00:20:59.639 What is it that I'm gonna tease? 00:21:00.264 --> 00:21:02.964 And so those are the kind of things that help me keep focused. 00:21:03.314 --> 00:21:03.725 Jennifer-Lee: Love it. 00:21:03.725 --> 00:21:06.004 We're getting trade secrets right here, right now. 00:21:06.544 --> 00:21:09.884 So I've interviewed a lot of people and sometimes this happens, not 00:21:09.884 --> 00:21:12.125 in this interview, but sometimes you have an interview that 00:21:12.125 --> 00:21:14.364 goes sideways or lacks energy. 00:21:14.585 --> 00:21:19.245 So how do you as the interviewer, kind of take control and make it a better one? 00:21:19.625 --> 00:21:22.085 Matt Abrahams: No offense to anybody in the room, but academics 00:21:22.085 --> 00:21:26.804 can be dry sometimes, and so trying to make it more exciting. 00:21:27.145 --> 00:21:32.344 My trick is I really try to, uh, get people to think about how what they're 00:21:32.344 --> 00:21:34.185 talking about has direct application. 00:21:34.205 --> 00:21:35.025 So what does this mean? 00:21:35.085 --> 00:21:36.304 How has this played out in your life? 00:21:36.304 --> 00:21:39.904 Getting people to tell stories, uh, and inviting them to 00:21:39.904 --> 00:21:41.585 tell stories I work on a lot. 00:21:41.975 --> 00:21:45.594 All my interviews, people know the questions in advance to help them be 00:21:45.594 --> 00:21:48.715 focused, and then I tell them these are just starting points, so they 00:21:48.745 --> 00:21:50.715 come prepared, which helps as well. 00:21:51.225 --> 00:21:54.245 But there are times where I'm in the midst of somebody's answering for way too 00:21:54.245 --> 00:21:57.205 long, and I'm just thinking, we're gonna cut this part, we're gonna cut that part. 00:21:57.304 --> 00:22:01.365 And I actually, well, the next question, knowing that I will have eliminated the 00:22:01.524 --> 00:22:05.965 previous answer, can to the person feel very abrupt, because I know we're just 00:22:05.965 --> 00:22:07.085 gonna get rid of everything they've said. 00:22:07.544 --> 00:22:08.764 So it can be hard. 00:22:09.564 --> 00:22:14.064 Neil McPhedran: So speaking of preparing your interviews, you end all your 00:22:14.064 --> 00:22:16.664 episodes with three of the same questions. 00:22:16.884 --> 00:22:21.264 So we have tweaked your three questions to be focused on podcasting instead instead 00:22:21.705 --> 00:22:22.945 communication, 'cause that's what you do. 00:22:23.044 --> 00:22:25.424 Matt Abrahams: Before you ask the questions, Neil, we determined early 00:22:25.445 --> 00:22:28.784 on because we were running on a shoestring, that we would want to 00:22:29.104 --> 00:22:30.985 reuse our content as much as possible. 00:22:31.715 --> 00:22:34.935 And so we built in, and this is just a best practice that 00:22:34.935 --> 00:22:36.375 we have really benefited from. 00:22:36.435 --> 00:22:39.175 So those of you starting things, I might encourage you to think about this. 00:22:39.554 --> 00:22:43.254 We built in that we ask similar questions at the end of every episode, and we 00:22:43.254 --> 00:22:46.054 have gotten a tremendous amount of leverage out of that because we can 00:22:46.054 --> 00:22:51.419 then slice and dice our episodes and reuse content from different places. 00:22:51.959 --> 00:22:53.300 So there are lots of things. 00:22:53.519 --> 00:22:57.139 You create a lot of content and we, I think, have done a pretty 00:22:57.139 --> 00:23:00.219 good job of thinking about how can we reuse that content in different 00:23:00.219 --> 00:23:01.860 ways, creating infographics. 00:23:02.080 --> 00:23:04.699 Now we're really working on playlists that are thematic. 00:23:04.699 --> 00:23:07.300 Once you have enough episodes, you can start doing things like that. 00:23:07.439 --> 00:23:11.699 So I encourage everybody to think about this content you have as a 00:23:11.699 --> 00:23:15.044 warehouse of content that you can then combine in lots of different ways. 00:23:15.185 --> 00:23:20.004 So it's not an accident that we have, you know, 215 episodes with people 00:23:20.004 --> 00:23:21.564 answering the same three questions. 00:23:21.564 --> 00:23:22.725 That was very purposeful. 00:23:23.225 --> 00:23:26.725 And in a world where content is so important, creating ways to mix and match 00:23:26.844 --> 00:23:28.284 I think has been really helpful for us. 00:23:28.584 --> 00:23:30.445 Neil McPhedran: So you kind of just answered the first question. 00:23:30.584 --> 00:23:30.965 Matt Abrahams: Oh, okay. 00:23:30.965 --> 00:23:31.405 Well, very good. 00:23:32.709 --> 00:23:35.459 Neil McPhedran: But, the, the key part to the question though is if you 00:23:35.459 --> 00:23:38.899 were to capture the best podcasting advice you've ever received in a 00:23:38.899 --> 00:23:40.739 single sentence, what would it be? 00:23:41.249 --> 00:23:42.459 Matt Abrahams: It's all about your audience. 00:23:42.959 --> 00:23:46.100 You are simply a, a mouthpiece and ears for your audience. 00:23:46.239 --> 00:23:50.179 So everything I do, I'm always thinking about how will this help the audience? 00:23:50.370 --> 00:23:52.159 What would the audience want to know? 00:23:52.510 --> 00:23:55.715 I often wanna know a lot of things, some of which is similar to what 00:23:55.715 --> 00:23:58.914 my audience wants, but I really try to focus on how the audience will 00:23:58.914 --> 00:24:01.995 get value, and I'm always thinking of myself from their perspective. 00:24:02.414 --> 00:24:04.554 One of the things we did, when was that? 00:24:04.554 --> 00:24:05.634 About two, two and a half years ago. 00:24:05.634 --> 00:24:06.594 Neil McPhedran: This is more than one sentence. 00:24:06.834 --> 00:24:07.114 Matt Abrahams: I know. 00:24:07.475 --> 00:24:07.634 Okay. 00:24:07.654 --> 00:24:08.074 Period. 00:24:09.454 --> 00:24:12.704 I'm an academic who teaches communication, this is what I do. 00:24:12.784 --> 00:24:14.184 I talk, people pay me to talk. 00:24:14.184 --> 00:24:14.584 It's amazing. 00:24:15.249 --> 00:24:16.949 We did a thorough audience analysis. 00:24:17.049 --> 00:24:19.229 We actually had a company interview our audience. 00:24:19.229 --> 00:24:21.909 We surveyed our audience and we have a much better idea of who 00:24:21.909 --> 00:24:24.109 they are and what's important to them as a result of that. 00:24:24.409 --> 00:24:27.229 And that really helped with know your audience, which 00:24:27.229 --> 00:24:28.429 was the one sentence answer. 00:24:29.094 --> 00:24:31.579 Jennifer-Lee: Well, now I'm gonna channel my best Matt Abrahams 00:24:31.579 --> 00:24:36.979 and ask you who is a podcaster or interviewer that you admire and why? 00:24:37.739 --> 00:24:38.860 Matt Abrahams: I really like Terry Gross. 00:24:39.139 --> 00:24:41.419 I think Terry Gross is an amazing interviewer. 00:24:41.620 --> 00:24:45.620 I like how it's very conversational, how she's vulnerable, how she 00:24:45.649 --> 00:24:49.339 expresses emotion and gets others to express emotion. 00:24:49.959 --> 00:24:52.620 Her interviews are very different than the type of interviews I do. 00:24:52.620 --> 00:24:55.860 Mine are just sort of very matter of fact, but I really respect Terry Gross. 00:24:56.209 --> 00:24:56.739 Jennifer-Lee: Good answer. 00:24:57.819 --> 00:24:58.959 Neil McPhedran: Question number three. 00:24:59.909 --> 00:25:04.869 What are the three ingredients that go into a successful podcasting recipe? 00:25:05.939 --> 00:25:06.179 Matt Abrahams: Teamwork. 00:25:06.789 --> 00:25:09.419 Podcasting is, at least in the way we do it as a team. 00:25:09.839 --> 00:25:12.819 And I have assembled, I work with an amazing team. 00:25:12.819 --> 00:25:13.899 Thank you, Neil, and others. 00:25:14.319 --> 00:25:16.659 So, teamwork, passion, and curiosity. 00:25:16.799 --> 00:25:17.979 I'm gonna put those two together. 00:25:18.739 --> 00:25:22.259 I am infinitely curious and very passionate about what we do. 00:25:23.039 --> 00:25:27.819 And while I am really poor at this, I have always tried to surround 00:25:27.819 --> 00:25:31.424 myself and I certainly have done this with the team we work with, detail 00:25:31.904 --> 00:25:33.464 oriented, being very detail oriented. 00:25:33.624 --> 00:25:38.144 I am very bad at that, but you need to be detail oriented to make this work. 00:25:38.324 --> 00:25:42.664 So those would be the three ingredients for sure that help, from my perspective. 00:25:43.324 --> 00:25:44.704 Jennifer-Lee: Was that answer short enough for you? 00:25:45.644 --> 00:25:45.864 Neil McPhedran: Yep. 00:25:46.294 --> 00:25:47.464 Jennifer-Lee: Well, thank you so much, Matt. 00:25:47.464 --> 00:25:51.384 We're gonna actually open up the questions to you, the audience, 00:25:51.384 --> 00:25:54.504 because I know that you probably have some burning questions for Matt. 00:25:54.564 --> 00:25:55.344 So let's get started. 00:25:56.239 --> 00:25:59.299 Audience Member 1: Can you speak a little bit more about the specifics of how you 00:25:59.449 --> 00:26:05.779 were gonna create the bank of answers that you have queried the AI database? 00:26:05.899 --> 00:26:06.119 Matt Abrahams: So. 00:26:06.519 --> 00:26:08.919 I can only share the level that I understand this at. 00:26:09.059 --> 00:26:13.479 So one of the advantages of teaching where I teach is we have amazing students. 00:26:14.259 --> 00:26:17.879 In a class, some, I don't even remember how this came up. 00:26:17.899 --> 00:26:22.519 We were talking about AI and I said, it would be so great if I could somehow 00:26:23.449 --> 00:26:27.459 take all the information we have in my podcast and share it through AI, and I 00:26:27.459 --> 00:26:30.419 had a student come up afterwards and said, oh, I can have that for you by tomorrow. 00:26:31.839 --> 00:26:32.739 And I kid you not. 00:26:32.759 --> 00:26:33.179 He did. 00:26:33.679 --> 00:26:38.059 He has written a program, I don't know the specifics of it, that allow us to simply 00:26:38.159 --> 00:26:45.054 put in the URL of our episode and it will within 20 minutes add it to this data bank 00:26:45.204 --> 00:26:47.494 that he has and you can query against it. 00:26:48.114 --> 00:26:49.614 I'm not sure what he coded it in. 00:26:49.714 --> 00:26:50.574 I'm not sure what he did. 00:26:50.584 --> 00:26:54.014 We're in the process of, it's going to be beta launched to our 00:26:54.014 --> 00:26:58.094 premium members in the next couple weeks to get their feedback. 00:26:58.314 --> 00:27:00.374 As with all AI, it can do some silly things. 00:27:00.464 --> 00:27:02.964 We're trying to, to learn all those silly things. 00:27:03.314 --> 00:27:06.104 There are companies that will do this for you, they cost a lot of money. 00:27:06.334 --> 00:27:09.104 Like I said, students, for those of you who work with 00:27:09.304 --> 00:27:10.584 students, they're very eager. 00:27:11.004 --> 00:27:14.104 And we have two students who are studying data science. 00:27:14.654 --> 00:27:16.464 They came to me and said, we'd love to be interns. 00:27:16.584 --> 00:27:18.624 I said, well, we've got some data science-y projects. 00:27:18.624 --> 00:27:22.784 They got really excited because they do problem sets that are, you know, 00:27:22.814 --> 00:27:24.424 data sets that they don't care about. 00:27:24.964 --> 00:27:26.024 And they're like, wow. 00:27:26.384 --> 00:27:28.344 I mean, these are people on the other end of this. 00:27:28.364 --> 00:27:32.079 So we have this one woman working for us that, she's 00:27:32.079 --> 00:27:33.239 doing things we never imagined. 00:27:33.399 --> 00:27:36.919 I mean, we're getting data on what titles of our podcasts 00:27:37.019 --> 00:27:38.439 do better than other titles. 00:27:38.549 --> 00:27:42.479 What time of the month that we released episodes, do they do better versus worse? 00:27:43.059 --> 00:27:44.079 All that data exists. 00:27:44.139 --> 00:27:45.359 We just didn't know what to do with it. 00:27:45.459 --> 00:27:47.039 And you know, our students are helping. 00:27:47.219 --> 00:27:49.919 So leverage students and see if they can help. 00:27:50.019 --> 00:27:54.039 And if you really want more information about the AI, I can dig into it, but 00:27:54.039 --> 00:27:55.239 I honestly don't know what he did. 00:27:55.879 --> 00:28:00.524 Neil McPhedran: A key part of that though is the transcripts and all 00:28:00.524 --> 00:28:02.344 of the show notes and the metadata. 00:28:02.344 --> 00:28:07.404 So we spend a lot of time developing chapters and really good show notes 00:28:07.664 --> 00:28:09.964 and very accurate transcripts. 00:28:10.144 --> 00:28:12.604 So that's really important 'cause that feeds into the AI. 00:28:12.604 --> 00:28:18.509 And when Matt says it goes to the webpage, each episode has its own webpage with the 00:28:18.509 --> 00:28:20.469 transcript and all of that data on there. 00:28:20.469 --> 00:28:23.429 So that's really, really rich data then that funnels into 00:28:23.429 --> 00:28:24.869 that AI so they can pull it out. 00:28:24.929 --> 00:28:27.709 So first and foremost, you gotta give it the data, and that's where 00:28:27.709 --> 00:28:30.549 we spend a lot of time making sure it's accurate and it's all there. 00:28:31.009 --> 00:28:33.429 Matt Abrahams: You see what I mean about detail oriented, surround yourself 00:28:33.429 --> 00:28:34.389 with the people who know the details. 00:28:35.329 --> 00:28:38.629 Audience Member 2: Now, you mentioned that you are working on creating curated 00:28:38.629 --> 00:28:40.269 content through custom playlists. 00:28:40.269 --> 00:28:42.669 Talk to me a little bit more about that, how you're doing that, how 00:28:42.669 --> 00:28:43.669 you're sharing that with your audience. 00:28:44.474 --> 00:28:46.024 Matt Abrahams: Again, I have interns who are doing it. 00:28:46.024 --> 00:28:47.264 They're really excited about it. 00:28:47.444 --> 00:28:51.424 Across our many episodes, there are certain themes and topics that we cover, 00:28:51.884 --> 00:28:55.744 and we can see how they do in terms of listens, plays, views, whatever 00:28:55.744 --> 00:28:58.784 you're monitoring, and so we know that there's an appetite for certain topics. 00:28:58.934 --> 00:28:59.784 I'll give you an example. 00:29:00.044 --> 00:29:03.144 We have done many episodes on the fear of speaking in public. 00:29:03.344 --> 00:29:04.704 A lot of people have that as a fear. 00:29:04.954 --> 00:29:06.384 Those episodes do very well. 00:29:07.039 --> 00:29:08.539 We have 6, 7, 8 of them. 00:29:08.669 --> 00:29:10.179 We're putting them together in a playlist. 00:29:10.759 --> 00:29:14.339 For our premium offering we have a similar playlist, but I actually 00:29:14.339 --> 00:29:17.139 put some additional content on it so it becomes a lesson. 00:29:17.299 --> 00:29:19.979 I wouldn't say it's a course, it's a little lesson where I'll say, 00:29:20.239 --> 00:29:21.739 listen to these three episodes. 00:29:21.739 --> 00:29:23.379 Here's some specific things to listen for. 00:29:23.379 --> 00:29:24.619 Here's how you might apply it. 00:29:25.294 --> 00:29:28.064 That takes a little heavier lift, and that's why it's part of our 00:29:28.064 --> 00:29:30.744 premium offering where people have to pay a little to get access to it. 00:29:31.124 --> 00:29:34.384 But the normal playlists, we're just combining them and so 00:29:34.484 --> 00:29:36.824 we post them on our website. 00:29:37.739 --> 00:29:40.359 And in Spotify and YouTube, we've mirrored them. 00:29:40.459 --> 00:29:42.639 So they have a name, they have a different show. 00:29:42.699 --> 00:29:42.919 Art. 00:29:43.209 --> 00:29:46.799 We're starting to tell people about them, and we are starting to monitor 00:29:46.939 --> 00:29:47.999 how many people listen to them. 00:29:48.259 --> 00:29:51.599 So we're practically tactically from a numbers point of view, it's just 00:29:51.599 --> 00:29:55.079 another way to get people to visit your content, but to help people. 00:29:55.219 --> 00:29:57.839 It really helps curate that content in a meaningful way. 00:29:58.499 --> 00:30:02.119 Audience Member 3: So since a lot of the work you're talking about is going through 00:30:02.319 --> 00:30:06.424 students, I'm always curious then, why engage with the students to have them 00:30:06.444 --> 00:30:10.024 all start their own podcasts so that they can start thinking about how do we 00:30:10.024 --> 00:30:14.584 bring guests on, start actually using the work you're teaching them, uh, to do 00:30:14.584 --> 00:30:15.944 that, help 'em get jobs and everything. 00:30:16.254 --> 00:30:16.544 Matt Abrahams: Yeah. 00:30:16.644 --> 00:30:19.904 So a couple of the people we've had help us over the years have had podcasts. 00:30:20.504 --> 00:30:21.764 And we're really excited about it. 00:30:21.904 --> 00:30:24.884 And what's so funny to me is a couple of them will come and say, I wanna see how a 00:30:24.884 --> 00:30:26.724 real professional podcast is put together. 00:30:27.064 --> 00:30:30.404 And I laugh and I say, this is not professional, this is, this is not. 00:30:30.864 --> 00:30:31.804 And they soon see that. 00:30:31.954 --> 00:30:34.404 Some come from a podcasting background, which is great. 00:30:34.404 --> 00:30:36.404 Others are interested in creating podcasts. 00:30:36.404 --> 00:30:36.964 We help them. 00:30:37.774 --> 00:30:41.194 The team has certainly mentored some of the students that have helped us. 00:30:41.574 --> 00:30:44.554 Our original founding executive producer did that a lot. 00:30:44.734 --> 00:30:45.874 Her name was Jenny Luna. 00:30:45.934 --> 00:30:48.594 She really helped, and we are doing that today with some of ours. 00:30:48.814 --> 00:30:52.394 So yes, we try to encourage podcasting and encourage them to do it. 00:30:53.144 --> 00:30:55.964 The other thing I would encourage all of you to do, and I have just started 00:30:55.964 --> 00:30:59.724 doing this at Stanford, is reaching out to the student community who are 00:31:00.044 --> 00:31:02.844 creators and have their own podcasts, and we're starting to bring people together 00:31:03.494 --> 00:31:04.604 and to really leverage each 00:31:04.604 --> 00:31:04.724 Matt Abrahams: other. 00:31:04.904 --> 00:31:10.524 We have a student who is one of the senior participants in Mr. Beast's group. 00:31:10.724 --> 00:31:13.844 I mean, this guy does all of their partnerships for Mr. Beast. 00:31:14.074 --> 00:31:17.924 He's a 26-year-old MBA student, and I met with him and he's 00:31:17.924 --> 00:31:18.844 giving us insight, I mean. 00:31:19.774 --> 00:31:21.034 Mr. Beast, it's nuts. 00:31:21.134 --> 00:31:23.834 The numbers, they're talking in terms of views and stuff. 00:31:23.894 --> 00:31:27.714 So harness in your communities, people who are doing this and leverage. 00:31:27.944 --> 00:31:32.354 When we pulled the podcast out from the business school, I reached out to as many 00:31:32.444 --> 00:31:36.234 podcasters as I could find very prominent podcasters, and I have been amazed. 00:31:36.384 --> 00:31:39.754 Everybody has been so kind and collaborative. 00:31:40.214 --> 00:31:41.074 No competition. 00:31:41.384 --> 00:31:43.594 Everybody's just been really helpful in giving insight. 00:31:43.744 --> 00:31:46.434 It's fun to be around others who do what we all do. 00:31:47.074 --> 00:31:50.534 And reach out to that and help encourage young folks, like you 00:31:50.534 --> 00:31:52.614 said, to create their own podcasts. 00:31:53.094 --> 00:31:56.574 I actually think they have the energy and excitement for it for sure. 00:31:57.784 --> 00:31:58.004 Yes. 00:31:58.504 --> 00:31:58.724 Hi. 00:31:59.174 --> 00:32:00.884 Audience Member 4: First of all, thank you for your insights. 00:32:01.314 --> 00:32:04.524 What are your ethical conversations like with students 00:32:04.524 --> 00:32:06.644 with regards to media and AI? 00:32:06.834 --> 00:32:09.004 What are the questions that they are asking? 00:32:09.354 --> 00:32:10.884 What are the resources you're bringing in? 00:32:10.904 --> 00:32:15.589 Who are you holding up as examples of, look at these people for these 00:32:15.599 --> 00:32:18.989 kinds of considerations or for examples of what has been happening 00:32:19.009 --> 00:32:20.509 in regards to ethics and AI? 00:32:20.949 --> 00:32:22.869 Matt Abrahams: I probably need to do more of that, to be honest. 00:32:23.209 --> 00:32:26.949 So we definitely talk about AI and the use of AI. 00:32:26.969 --> 00:32:29.989 So when I teach, we have a lot of conversations about AI, especially 00:32:29.989 --> 00:32:31.349 when you teach strategic communication. 00:32:31.769 --> 00:32:34.989 Our students take an ethics class, and so I try to tap into what 00:32:34.989 --> 00:32:37.389 they're talking about in ethics and reinforce what they have there. 00:32:37.989 --> 00:32:39.589 I share what I use AI for. 00:32:39.829 --> 00:32:42.229 I share some of the challenges that I have with AI. 00:32:43.224 --> 00:32:48.504 I encourage them to really leverage it as a tool to help, but to be very 00:32:48.504 --> 00:32:50.984 mindful of where that content came from. 00:32:51.064 --> 00:32:54.024 I mean, as creators, we are all creating content, and I think 00:32:54.124 --> 00:32:57.504 we deserve the respect and the effort that that effort requires. 00:32:57.504 --> 00:33:02.304 So I encourage them to do that, and I fear that AI will reduce 00:33:02.304 --> 00:33:04.224 people's ability to critically think. 00:33:04.684 --> 00:33:08.424 And so I really encourage my students to keep their critical thinking 00:33:08.424 --> 00:33:11.584 skills sharp and to really evaluate and judge what AI produces for them. 00:33:12.739 --> 00:33:15.239 Jennifer-Lee: We have time for one to two more questions. 00:33:16.099 --> 00:33:18.999 Audience Member 5: What's the process, 'cause the fun note, you know, you've 00:33:18.999 --> 00:33:22.849 got a popular podcast, so everybody and their brother wants to be on it now. 00:33:23.329 --> 00:33:25.399 So what's the criteria of choosing your guests? 00:33:25.899 --> 00:33:26.719 Matt Abrahams: That's a great question. 00:33:26.779 --> 00:33:32.159 So one is, is it in alignment with our theme and is there value that 00:33:32.159 --> 00:33:34.154 the person can bring to the audience. 00:33:34.154 --> 00:33:35.554 That's probably the number one thing. 00:33:36.014 --> 00:33:40.634 Two is, is there some unique perspective that the person brings? 00:33:41.254 --> 00:33:41.794 You are right. 00:33:41.814 --> 00:33:45.914 As we have gotten more popular, I think at least 5 to 10 requests 00:33:45.984 --> 00:33:49.074 come in sometimes per day for people who have books and other things 00:33:49.074 --> 00:33:50.154 that they want to be on the show. 00:33:50.574 --> 00:33:53.794 And I just have a standard boilerplate thing I send back to many of them. 00:33:54.554 --> 00:33:58.874 I would say probably 80% of our guests I solicit versus them coming to me. 00:33:59.334 --> 00:34:02.344 Because there are certain themes and ideas that we want to cover. 00:34:02.774 --> 00:34:05.544 Believe me, it's a nice place to be where people wanna be on the show. 00:34:05.784 --> 00:34:08.264 'Cause I remember starting out and having to beg people to be on the show. 00:34:08.684 --> 00:34:09.784 So that has been nice. 00:34:09.884 --> 00:34:11.625 But it has to add value to the audience. 00:34:11.944 --> 00:34:15.304 I have to, I will personally wanna learn from it and it has to be 00:34:15.304 --> 00:34:16.784 some kind of unique perspective. 00:34:16.915 --> 00:34:18.104 Those are the three criteria. 00:34:18.415 --> 00:34:18.705 Jennifer-Lee: Okay. 00:34:18.705 --> 00:34:20.544 So we're gonna go with the final question. 00:34:21.245 --> 00:34:22.304 Audience Member 6: You may hate this question. 00:34:22.614 --> 00:34:22.904 Matt Abrahams: Okay. 00:34:23.344 --> 00:34:25.264 Audience Member 6: When the ice cube melts, what will you be doing? 00:34:26.634 --> 00:34:26.854 Matt Abrahams: Ah. 00:34:27.874 --> 00:34:30.534 So I love teaching and I'm curious. 00:34:30.594 --> 00:34:35.334 So I'm gonna find, podcasting is, I mean, for those of us who do this, it's amazing. 00:34:35.434 --> 00:34:37.294 It scratches so many itches that I have. 00:34:37.454 --> 00:34:38.934 I love to talk to really smart people. 00:34:39.174 --> 00:34:39.894 I love to learn. 00:34:40.074 --> 00:34:42.854 I'm incredibly curious, so I will find other avenues for that. 00:34:43.694 --> 00:34:45.854 I think there is always a need to create content. 00:34:46.214 --> 00:34:49.734 I just think it's how we engage that content and how we bring value to people. 00:34:50.274 --> 00:34:53.494 So I don't know what it'll be, but it'll certainly be me asking questions 00:34:53.834 --> 00:34:55.054 and trying to learn from people. 00:34:56.339 --> 00:34:57.729 Jennifer-Lee: Well, thank you so much, Matt. 00:34:57.729 --> 00:34:58.830 We really appreciate it. 00:35:00.039 --> 00:35:00.509 Matt Abrahams: Thank you. 00:35:03.910 --> 00:35:06.629 I am, I'm happy to chat with all of you and learn from all of you. 00:35:06.669 --> 00:35:08.469 I want to hear what all of you are up to for sure. 00:35:10.299 --> 00:35:10.589 Neil McPhedran: Okay. 00:35:10.609 --> 00:35:11.269 That's a wrap. 00:35:11.819 --> 00:35:15.269 What a great conversation we had with Matt. 00:35:15.990 --> 00:35:17.709 I really enjoyed that. 00:35:17.939 --> 00:35:23.709 Lots of fantastic insights for higher education podcasters, no doubt. 00:35:24.009 --> 00:35:26.349 Jennifer-Lee: And I just love the live element because you 00:35:26.349 --> 00:35:29.950 know, you can hear the audience laughing, you can feel the audience. 00:35:30.219 --> 00:35:31.069 It's different, like yes. 00:35:31.979 --> 00:35:37.040 In the perfect world, the sound quality might not be there, but I like the 00:35:37.370 --> 00:35:39.759 whole live element versus studio. 00:35:40.019 --> 00:35:41.439 So I thought it was great. 00:35:42.019 --> 00:35:45.359 Neil McPhedran: Yes, all in all, great trip, great conference. 00:35:45.790 --> 00:35:52.289 Love this episode, and I'm so glad that we decided to record live while we 00:35:52.289 --> 00:35:54.849 were there and we got it all to work. 00:35:55.589 --> 00:35:58.490 Jennifer-Lee: And hopefully we'll be doing it again next year. 00:35:58.700 --> 00:36:00.569 Maybe Chicago, maybe not. 00:36:01.129 --> 00:36:02.209 Neil McPhedran: I think we're gonna be going to a different 00:36:02.209 --> 00:36:06.329 city, different university for next year's Higher Ed PodCon. 00:36:06.369 --> 00:36:09.450 That, that'll be decided over the next few months, but yeah, 00:36:09.469 --> 00:36:10.410 it was, but it was great. 00:36:10.929 --> 00:36:11.419 Jennifer-Lee: Perfect. 00:36:11.589 --> 00:36:15.499 Thank you so much for tuning into the Continuous Studies podcast, our 00:36:15.499 --> 00:36:19.779 very first live episode, a podcast for higher education podcasters. 00:36:20.200 --> 00:36:23.299 We hope you found this episode informative and inspiring. 00:36:23.759 --> 00:36:26.579 If you enjoyed the show, we encourage you to follow and subscribe to our 00:36:26.579 --> 00:36:29.779 podcast on your preferred platform, so you'll never 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