WEBVTT 00:00:01.280 --> 00:00:41.680 When most people hear the name Lecrae, they think Grammy Awards, hit records, cultural impact, and one of the most recognized voices in Christian hip hop, and all of that is true. But today is not about Lecrae the artist. Today is about Lecrae the business owner, the entrepreneur, the multimillionaire who's had to steward fame and fortune and the good and the bad and the ugly that comes with that. Look. You've heard plenty of things about Lecrae, the music man, the family man, the faith man, but we're going to see another side of him. 00:00:41.920 --> 00:01:33.330 Lecrae, the businessman. The man who built companies, the man who made major financial moves, the man who created wealth, all while keeping his faith intact and his family too. Today, we're gonna unpack the principles behind Lecrae, making millions as a Christian. Welcome to the Stewardship Coach Podcast with yours truly, Lee Jenkins, where we help the financially frustrated to the extraordinarily wealthy learn how to make, manage, and multiply money God's way. So if you're looking for practical faith based wisdom on business, finance, and stewardship, you're in the right place. 00:01:33.570 --> 00:01:38.945 Now let's get into today's episode. What's up, Lecrae? 00:01:38.945 --> 00:01:39.825 What's going on? 00:01:39.825 --> 00:01:43.505 It's good to see you, man. Good to be here. Welcome to the podcast. 00:01:43.505 --> 00:01:44.225 Yeah. Yeah. 00:01:44.225 --> 00:01:50.950 It's so good to have you, man. I am just thinking about when we first met, probably five or six years ago 00:01:51.190 --> 00:01:51.510 Mhmm. 00:01:51.510 --> 00:01:52.870 During the pandemic. 00:01:52.870 --> 00:01:53.270 Mhmm. 00:01:53.270 --> 00:02:10.405 And I'll never forget that, man. I had been a fan of yours for so many years. And then when I met you, man, I said, man, this dude looked like he could play in the NBA, man. You were were tall, you looked like an athlete, you looked like a wide receiver, man, who I wanted to shut down. Because because see, played a little ball back in the day. 00:02:10.405 --> 00:02:12.725 So we've heard. So we've seen. 00:02:13.445 --> 00:02:33.145 You didn't look like a typical hip hop artist. Yeah. But, man, you've had a tremendous impact on my life and many others. So tell us about when we met during the pandemic, all the racial unrest. I think there were some controversy surrounding you at that time. 00:02:33.145 --> 00:02:33.545 Mhmm. 00:02:33.785 --> 00:02:38.105 Some people who, had kinda canceled you. 00:02:38.105 --> 00:02:38.665 Mhmm. 00:02:38.665 --> 00:02:51.800 And you were going through some things personally, professionally Yeah. Ministry wise. Talk to us about that. Yeah. That was a very that was an interesting time. 00:02:52.280 --> 00:02:53.480 During that time period, 00:02:55.265 --> 00:03:37.970 my faith compelled me to speak up for people who I felt didn't have a voice, who were being mistreated, and were essentially being racially profiled, to the point of being killed. And I felt it necessary to speak up on behalf of these people. I did not realize how divisive standing up for people was gonna become. And, you know, there were a a large swath of my fans who decided that my convictions were were, for them, too political. Mhmm. 00:03:37.970 --> 00:03:57.255 I didn't see them as political. I saw them as biblical. But as politics and faith started to merge, I think that's the only view they could see things through. And so for them, they said, oh, he's being political. I don't want anything to do with him. 00:03:57.895 --> 00:04:38.020 And I was just attacked viciously online, lost a lot of of supporters. There was one show that I remember having where there was probably 3,000 people showed up the year before, and then after, it was like 400 people showed up. So, was a pretty tough time, and I just needed some time to process. And by the grace of God, running into you who was more seasoned, wise, and had been through so many things, I could see you as a voice during that time period. And then come to find out you're a voice and and a mentor in so many other ways. 00:04:38.580 --> 00:05:02.960 I remember those those times, man. It was really tough Mhmm. For a lot of people just navigating through through not only the pandemic, but again, the racial unrest, the political sensitivity, people misunderstanding folks. And then you were just trying to stay alive, you know, because this this crazy pandemic. Well, did that hit you financially? 00:05:02.960 --> 00:05:33.220 I mean, when you stand up for your principles and your values and you are a public figure, you're a celebrity, you make your money from the public, you know, how did that hit you? And did you ever think about maybe I shouldn't, you know, be so bold because it might hit my bottom line. Actually, absolutely. I have I I I hadn't considered it was going to affect me financially until it did. Yeah. 00:05:35.085 --> 00:06:03.125 I was very fortunate that I had a financial advisor who, years prior, was an advisor to a lot of pro athletes. And what he told me was, he said, hey, a pro athlete has a window of earning, and similarly, so does an artist. And so you need to think of your earning window. So I was already kind of preparing for an end to my earning window. It just hadn't happened. 00:06:03.525 --> 00:06:30.855 So I was I was preparing in some other ways, investing and and alter alternative investments and different things, real estate, different things like that. So when it did hit, I was fortunate that I had thought of this time period. You know, I didn't expect it to come like this. Mhmm. But it did dry up a lot of my, like, just the income that I was functioning off of. 00:06:30.855 --> 00:06:47.940 And so I had to, you know, lean on savings, I had to lean on my salary. Thank goodness I made a salary from, you know, my business. But, yeah, that ancillary concert income, oh, it took a dip. And did I wanna be quiet? I didn't think I should have been quiet, but but I didn't think it 00:06:47.940 --> 00:07:06.965 was gonna be that crazy either. Man, it was crazy. So that's interesting that you compare your career, or at least your financial advisor. The way he advised you was similar to one who would advise a professional athlete Mhmm. Because you have a certain amount of time to make a certain amount of money. 00:07:07.285 --> 00:07:12.165 But in the entertainment business, a lot of people think that they can do that forever. 00:07:12.165 --> 00:07:12.485 Right. 00:07:12.485 --> 00:07:28.860 Because, you know, an athlete and when we know, you know, that shelf life is very short, and then you got the possibility of injuries. But with a lot of entertainers, they don't look at it like that. Right. Because they figure they can sing, they can rap, they can act the rest of their life. Yeah. 00:07:29.645 --> 00:07:43.005 How did that shape how you handled your money? Okay. As it was coming in, were you like, you know, splurging and like, you know, thinking it's gonna always be this way? What was your mindset? 00:07:43.165 --> 00:08:09.445 Well, I didn't grow up with a lot of money. So I grew up with a single mother, and she was doing her best to survive. And she had, you know, struggled financially, and, you know, I think when people start off without money, they move in two different ways. Either they move in in a way that says, I'll never have this again, so I'm gonna go crazy, or I'll never have this again, so I'm gonna hoard it. Yeah. 00:08:09.445 --> 00:08:27.830 And so I erred toward hoarding, and I'm not saying either one are right. Yes. I'm just saying that was the the way I would lean was toward the hoarding because I was afraid that I was gonna be broke again. So when my adviser told me that, it just like, oh, no. I'm not. 00:08:27.975 --> 00:08:57.255 I don't know when this can end. So I I I you know, I was very fortunate to have I I mean, even to this day, I've been doing music twenty years. But the window was like three years, and I and I was very fortunate to go past that. So every year past three, I was like, it could be this year, could be this year, I don't know, I don't know. So because of that, I was always thinking about what I needed to do and what steps I needed to take. 00:08:57.655 --> 00:09:20.230 So you didn't look at yourself as just an artist. You looked at music as the music business, meaning like it was a business. A lot of people just look at the art side of it. How did you handle the business side? I mean, were you did you consider yourself savvy as a business person when you first got into the music business? 00:09:20.795 --> 00:09:24.075 So, I I I didn't. I didn't really know 00:09:24.075 --> 00:09:42.330 much. What I a lot of what I learned, I learned because I was forced to. So, when I first got into the music business, I had the opportunity to be taken advantage of. The the beautiful part about it was the labels didn't want me. Right? 00:09:42.330 --> 00:10:00.135 Because when I first started making music, we went to the hip hop labels because we thought, you know, I had some supporters and they said, man, this is taking hip hop by storm. Nothing's like this. And the hip hop labels said, this is too gospel. You should go to the gospel label. So then we went to the gospel labels and the gospel label said, this is too hip hop. 00:10:00.390 --> 00:10:20.205 Go to the hip hop label. So we were in this unique position where there was nothing for us. So we had to just figure it out on our own and do it all independently. And that meant, like, taking every small step and learning every detail. Oh, what is a UPC code? 00:10:20.205 --> 00:10:36.640 And and and, you know, what is bookkeeping? And how does how do all these particular things work? And, you know, you're talking about a kid who's fresh out of college, and I'm just having to learn all of this stuff on the fly. I had never been to an attorney's office, I didn't know an attorney. Wow. 00:10:36.640 --> 00:10:53.815 So, you know, the concept of having to meet with an attorney was beyond my mind, and so I was very fortunate that the church world was very well resourced and would send me people that I needed to have discussions with and and to have conversations. 00:10:53.815 --> 00:11:10.030 Wow. Well, take me back to your childhood. Those those experiences, those people who shaped you as a financial steward, as a business person. How did you view money as a child? Was it scarce? 00:11:10.615 --> 00:11:18.615 Were you able to buy pretty much what you wanted to buy? And how do you think your childhood shaped you as a businessman? 00:11:19.175 --> 00:11:44.425 My mother raised me, you know, I was it was a stern household finances, in terms of, you know, she was like, I don't have a lot, so, you know, I can't do the above and beyond things. You won't have the new Nikes that all of your friends are gonna have. I I mean, when it came to, like, something as simple as Chuck Taylors, I had fake Chuck Taylors in So the eighth that's how that's how bad it was. 00:11:44.425 --> 00:11:45.145 Pretty bad. 00:11:45.145 --> 00:12:03.840 So what what what my mother did instill in me is a work ethic. Yes. And so, from a very young age, I understood if I want something, I'm gonna have to work for it. I was not afraid of work. I was not under the thought process that it's just gonna happen for me. 00:12:04.425 --> 00:12:28.670 And so I worked very hard. I was always hustling. I think the entrepreneurial side of me came as a kid because I realized I've gotta go mow some lawns, I've gotta go wash some cars, shovel some snow, whatever it takes to make this money. I worked as a I wasn't a paper boy, but I would get people subscribed to the newspaper. Younger audience may not know what a newspaper is. 00:12:28.670 --> 00:12:29.310 That's right. 00:12:29.310 --> 00:12:57.030 But I had to get people subscribed to the newspaper. I would sell candy. I would go to the dollar store with extra money I had, buy candy for a dollar and resell it for $2, know, door to door. So I was just always thinking entrepreneurial as a kid. Now, my my mother was was in a relationship with a guy and he was pretty financially savvy and and he gave me some tips. 00:12:57.030 --> 00:13:15.290 I don't think he understood that they stuck. Mhmm. But as a teenager, he told me it was very simple. He said, your money is a table with four legs, savings, investing, your your spending or checking Mhmm. And your emergency. 00:13:15.290 --> 00:13:23.690 Wow. And that's what he taught me as a as a teenager. So I was always like, okay, I gotta have money to save. Yeah. I gotta have money for an emergency. 00:13:24.090 --> 00:13:45.890 I gotta have money to invest. I didn't even know what investing was, but I was like, I need to invest it. And then I got money I I spend or, you know, emergency spending savings and investing. And he told me that, so I always had this concept of do I have my four legs at all times? And this is like at 16, so that stuck with me and I just built off of that. 00:13:45.890 --> 00:13:53.730 Man, that is great advice, man. Yeah. I wish I had heard something like that when I was a teenager. Yeah. But that's really awesome. 00:13:53.890 --> 00:14:11.625 What did you want to be when you were a teenager, when you thought about your future? Did you think about this celebrity artist, hip hop artist, multimillionaire? Was that a vision of yours, or did it just kind of happen and fall into place? 00:14:12.330 --> 00:14:20.250 Yeah. I fell in love with the craft of entertainment. Right? So I love music, I love acting. I actually wanted to be an actor. 00:14:20.250 --> 00:14:40.575 Yeah. So that was my first love, was acting. I did music as well, but I got a full scholarship for performing arts, for acting. You know, that's what I wanted to do. The money part, I don't think I considered that what I did professionally was gonna provide for me. 00:14:41.060 --> 00:14:54.420 I was always, like, very practical. So my mind, was always thinking, what's my backup plan? What's my backup plan? What do I Mhmm. And and I didn't have an aspiration to have more money until I was exposed. 00:14:54.665 --> 00:15:11.040 Mhmm. So I'll never forget, I was in Dallas, Texas about 18 years old, and I remember driving through this neighborhood over by SMU. Mhmm. And I looked at these houses and I said, woah, I didn't know this existed. Yeah. 00:15:11.040 --> 00:15:30.005 You know, and I was like, this is crazy. And it was a guy outside and he was walking his dog and I just said, excuse me, sir, I'm sorry. Can I just ask you a question? And he was like, what's going on? And I said, how do you get to live in a house like these? 00:15:30.005 --> 00:15:38.885 And he said, you work hard and make some good investments. And there was that word again, investment. Yeah. And I was like, what is that? What is that? 00:15:39.460 --> 00:15:50.980 And so I went and grabbed The Wall Street Journal. Didn't know what I was reading Mhmm. When I was 18. And I was like, I just gotta figure this out some kind of way. Whatever this is, I need to figure this out so I can live in this neighborhood. 00:15:50.980 --> 00:15:54.065 Man. So that just triggered something in you, man. 00:15:54.065 --> 00:15:55.665 It did. Yeah. Yeah. 00:15:56.945 --> 00:15:58.305 You wanted to be an actor. 00:15:58.385 --> 00:15:58.865 Mhmm. 00:15:58.865 --> 00:16:08.240 Let's go back a little bit more into your childhood. Yeah. You lived in a lot of different cities. I I think I read Dallas, San Diego, Denver. Mhmm. 00:16:08.240 --> 00:16:11.040 Why were you why was your family moving around so much? 00:16:11.440 --> 00:16:32.335 Well, when I was I was born in Houston. Okay. My father worked for UPS, and, him and my mother got married she got pregnant with me. They were very young, early twenties. While at UPS, a lot of his counterparts kept getting hired or I'm sorry. 00:16:32.335 --> 00:16:37.440 Promoted. Promoted. Mhmm. Before him. And he and he felt it was racial, but he couldn't prove 00:16:37.440 --> 00:16:38.160 it. Mhmm. 00:16:38.160 --> 00:16:54.395 And he he asked a woman after being there for for a while, hey, I've been doing this longer than most people and they're getting promoted above me. Mhmm. And she said, you should just be happy to have a job. Wow. And so that sent him spiraling because he felt like there was a ceiling he was never gonna get past. 00:16:54.875 --> 00:17:21.565 And that spiral turned him into using his job to to sell drugs. And he was selling drugs, and then he started using the drugs he was selling, and then after using the drugs, he became an addict. And that created tension in my household, of course, and they split up. My mother literally had to escape. And so so now we're move we're moving to wherever family was because she's young. 00:17:21.565 --> 00:17:39.620 She's in her early twenties and just needs support. And my grandmother's she's had different husbands, but her husbands were in the military. So wherever they were stationed is kinda where we would end up going. So there's a base in Colorado, we're going to Colorado. There's a base in San Diego, we're going to San Diego. 00:17:39.620 --> 00:17:45.060 That's how you got there. That's exactly what was happening. So we were just staying wherever there was family. 00:17:45.535 --> 00:17:48.415 Wow. Yeah. You needed I guess, she needed that support 00:17:48.735 --> 00:17:49.295 That's right. 00:17:49.295 --> 00:18:01.780 That's right. Man. So, you wanted to be an actor, didn't grow up around a lot of money, but you had a a mindset was developing, though. That's right. Because these words like investing and saving 00:18:02.020 --> 00:18:02.500 That's right. 00:18:02.500 --> 00:18:15.785 You know, and managing money. So tell me about your faith journey during that time. I mean, did something happen that kinda got you on this faith trajectory? Yeah. 00:18:15.785 --> 00:18:43.375 You know, I was I I I was a a very smart kid Mhmm. But but rowdy, rambunctious, always getting in trouble. I was bored very easily, And I had a lot of negative influences. The only men in my family were, like, uncles who were, you know, they were in gangs or they were just neighborhood guys. And I didn't have a model, you know, to follow after. 00:18:43.375 --> 00:18:59.160 So, I didn't know what I was supposed to do. And it got me into a lot of trouble. I got brought home by the police, you know, often as a kid. And then, by the time I was a teenager, I really wanted to get my life together. You know, I was seeing friends go to jail. 00:18:59.640 --> 00:19:16.015 I was seeing peep you know, people getting pregnant, girls getting pregnant in high school, and I was like, I wanna be better. I just didn't know how. And I was like, how do I get better? How do I not succumb to this? So I said, you know, after a lot of trial and tribulation, I'm gonna go to church. 00:19:16.175 --> 00:19:33.920 So I was 17, I said, let me go to church. And sat in there as a 17 year old by myself because I wasn't raised in church, my mother was. But she had such a negative experience because, you know, it was a very legalistic Mhmm. Church environment. So she couldn't wear makeup, she couldn't go to sporting events, she couldn't wear pants. 00:19:34.455 --> 00:19:53.180 And so she said, I'm not raising my kid in that. And so so we didn't go to church much. So I said, well, this is the grown up mature thing to do. I'm gonna drive myself to this little storefront church. And I sat in the church and after service, this woman comes up to me and she says, are you saved? 00:19:53.180 --> 00:19:53.660 Man. 00:19:53.660 --> 00:20:10.115 And I and I didn't know what that word meant because I didn't I hadn't heard I didn't know the church language. Mhmm. And so I just looked at her and I said, no. And the look of horror on her face was like, what did I say wrong? And she just said, look, can I pray for you? 00:20:10.115 --> 00:20:39.035 And I said, sure. She prayed for me, but I I it stuck with me that something whatever I said bothered her so much she had to pray for me. And the next year, I got into college and I was on campus and they had all these little, like, this this clubs, the the club fair. Mhmm. And I didn't know anybody at this school except one girl that I had known in the past and she said, hey, you should come to our bible study. 00:20:39.515 --> 00:20:53.060 And I said, I'll I'll I don't know anybody. I'll go wherever, you know. And I go to the bible study and I see Christians, I'm like, oh, I didn't know there were young Christians, like, look at this. Mhmm. They invited me to a conference called Impact here in Atlanta. 00:20:53.060 --> 00:20:56.660 Yeah. I get to Atlanta, my mind is blown because Do you 00:20:56.660 --> 00:20:57.860 remember what year that was? 00:20:57.860 --> 00:21:06.345 9899. Okay. Yeah. Alright. So I remember seeing I think, my goodness, there were so many people there. 00:21:06.745 --> 00:21:32.375 Hayman Cross, Eddie Long, you know, the the sermon that actually hit me was by a pastor from North Carolina named James White. And I had never heard the gospel. And it was like it was the scale just fell off my eyes and I said, I want this. This is the change I was looking for. And from that moment on, it was like I was a new person. 00:21:32.535 --> 00:21:38.055 That's amazing. I used to speak at those conferences. It was in the early two thousands. 00:21:38.055 --> 00:21:38.375 Okay. 00:21:38.375 --> 00:21:40.950 I had never seen that many college students. 00:21:40.950 --> 00:21:41.430 It was amazing. 00:21:41.430 --> 00:21:44.150 Black college students who love the lord. 00:21:44.390 --> 00:21:45.430 You and me both. 00:21:45.430 --> 00:21:46.070 Oh, my god. 00:21:46.070 --> 00:21:47.430 I never seen it either. 00:21:47.670 --> 00:21:48.630 It was incredible. 00:21:48.630 --> 00:21:49.750 I didn't know it existed. 00:21:49.830 --> 00:21:54.230 Wow. Yeah. So that just, changed your life, that that whole experience. 00:21:54.230 --> 00:21:57.065 Changed my life. Yeah. I was never the same after that. 00:21:57.305 --> 00:22:12.160 So which came first, your, entrance into the, hip hop world Yeah. Or you meeting the woman of your dreams. Okay. Which which came first, or or were they kinda simultaneous? 00:22:12.160 --> 00:22:38.305 So that that's the funny part. I get to the University of North Texas. I'm on a acting scholarship. There's not many opportunities to act, but a guy there who was a student named his name was Art Hooker, and he was he would throw plays, but he was a Christian. And so they these plays would have these subtle gospel moments in them, but I didn't know that. 00:22:38.305 --> 00:23:04.045 I just wanted to act. So, you know, I auditioned and he said, yeah, you can be in this play. I'm a freshman and I'm in this play and he goes to the same bible study that the girl had invited me to. So I said, oh, I'll come back to the bible study. And in in that bible study, it was just a group of young black people and after bible study, they would do like a little cipher, little freestyle. 00:23:04.045 --> 00:23:16.730 And I was like, oh, they rap? I I've been rapping since I was 10. I can do this. I didn't know Jesus Yeah. But I was like, I can figure out how to make bible and disciple rhyme. 00:23:16.730 --> 00:23:33.145 And so I just started rapping and they were like, wow. This guy's pretty good. And, you know, I I didn't have any affirmation. You know, my dad had left. I didn't know anybody on campus, and so just getting affirmed in this community was pretty cool. 00:23:33.465 --> 00:23:57.735 One of the people who stood around watching me rap at that bible study was my wife. And so she was there as well watching me as an 18 year old kid, didn't know Jesus, but just trying to figure this thing out. And so it was all kinda happening at the same time. And then when I get to this conference, I see a group of rappers, Christian rappers named Cross Movement. And I was like, I didn't even know you could do this. 00:23:58.215 --> 00:24:09.655 And so now I'm just like, oh, I'm doing this. I'm doing this. And so now I'm a Christian. I don't my wife and I aren't dating, but we're really good friends. Mhmm. 00:24:09.655 --> 00:24:27.325 And I'm skipping class now in the music lab at the college writing songs and making beats. And I'm like, yo, I think I love this more than the acting stuff. And and I just said, nah, I think this is what I need to be doing. Wow. 00:24:27.325 --> 00:24:29.725 Yeah. So, man, you found your calling, man. 00:24:29.725 --> 00:24:30.365 Oh, for sure. 00:24:30.365 --> 00:24:44.870 It's kind of a a combination of a romance because you you met Yeah. Your wife to be. Your faith life was taken off. Mhmm. And then you found your calling as it relates to your passion. 00:24:44.870 --> 00:24:46.150 You thought it was acting, 00:24:46.150 --> 00:24:46.550 but it 00:24:46.550 --> 00:24:50.070 was really, rapping being in the hip hop world. 00:24:50.070 --> 00:24:50.310 Yeah. 00:24:50.310 --> 00:25:02.615 And speaking of that, how do you know I've always been intrigued by guys like you. How do you know you have a talent when it comes to to rapping, man? I mean, because, you know, everybody knows they can sing. 00:25:02.615 --> 00:25:02.935 Yeah. 00:25:02.935 --> 00:25:13.140 You know, and then you get that acknowledgement. Maybe you sing at church or or something like that. Mhmm. When did you know that you could that you were good at this? 00:25:13.300 --> 00:25:17.860 So I knew probably around 13 that I was good at 00:25:17.860 --> 00:25:18.340 it. Mhmm. 00:25:18.340 --> 00:25:35.080 I enjoyed it. Yeah. And as a kid, I would write raps and do raps in the lunchroom and all that cool stuff as a kid. It was fun. I had a little rap group, like, around 12 with some kids in my elementary school and and it was fun. 00:25:35.080 --> 00:25:54.105 We thought we were good, but we didn't we no way to know. The when I knew I was good is I transferred schools in eighth grade. So I had gone to two so many different high schools and middle schools, all of moving around. But I I had transferred schools in eighth grade and somebody had heard I could rap. Mhmm. 00:25:54.105 --> 00:26:14.590 And so they said, oh, the new kid can rap. We gotta see him battle Charles. Because Charles was the resident rapper at the school, and everyone's like, nobody beats Charles in a battle. Nobody can beat Charles. So now after school, it's like this matchup, you know, and it's and and I'm like, you know, why not? 00:26:14.590 --> 00:26:29.975 I'll do it. And and so I had a couple raps that I had written and I remember sitting there and just me and Charles, and Charles does his rap. And then I'm like, that was it? I was like, that was it? And so now, you know, I'm 13. 00:26:29.975 --> 00:26:44.900 I'm cracking my knuckles, and I'm like, slithering like a snake in the grass. Stinking care of a junior crew, you got to know it. I'm just eating them alive. And the crowd just goes, oh my goodness. And I in that moment, was like, I'm pretty good at this. 00:26:44.900 --> 00:26:46.180 Yeah. I'm pretty good at this. 00:26:46.385 --> 00:26:53.985 Man, I love stories like that, man. You were about 13 or so? Yeah. Man, that is amazing. Yeah. 00:26:54.385 --> 00:27:06.330 So, you leave college and what do you do after that? I mean, because now you got a you're in love by this time. I don't think you were married yet. 00:27:06.330 --> 00:27:08.730 No. So the funny thing is we were just great friends. 00:27:08.730 --> 00:27:09.050 Okay. 00:27:09.050 --> 00:27:25.915 We didn't get married until a few years after I graduated college. But what had happened well, this is what this is what actually happened. While I'm in college, I'm serving in campus ministry now. I've I've become a believer, and the next four years of my life, I'm just trying to figure out how to walk. 00:27:25.915 --> 00:27:26.235 Yeah. 00:27:26.235 --> 00:28:02.830 Right? I mean, you know, college student is tough because in the summer times, there's Christmas breaks, you go home and everyone's going to the club, and you're like, am I missing out? And so, there was there was a lot of, like, going back and forth and ping ponging. And I really had to put my flagpole in the ground and say, I wanna be serious about this, And and I moved after I graduated college, I I would volunteer at this juvenile detention center. So I moved close to the detention center, and I started to, you know, just rap for those kids on the on the weekends. 00:28:03.310 --> 00:28:24.015 And I was working for Comcast in the marketing department. I was a I was a marketing coordinator. So I ended up getting my degree and I went into marketing. So I'm I'm, you know, I'm at this this company and I'm sitting in board meetings and I'm writing raps. Wow. 00:28:24.015 --> 00:28:48.775 You know, I'm I understood the concept of marketing Mhmm. And it wasn't it was very fairly easy to me, so I learned I had a knack for that. Mhmm. But as I'm sitting in at this company, I'm writing these songs and I'm like, this is really what I wanna do. But my mom, I'm like she she's like, you got a job. 00:28:48.775 --> 00:29:04.730 Yeah. You got a salary, you know. So I'm working on my album at the same time, and I'm I'm going to the studio with my salary money and just putting together this album. And there's a guy named Will Reed, and he was a financial investor adviser. Right? 00:29:04.730 --> 00:29:17.495 This is the crazy part about it. He was a young black guy who was volunteering his time to mentor college students on my campus. Wow. Financial adviser. So Will is actually the first person that told me about compound interest Mhmm. 00:29:17.495 --> 00:29:35.190 And taught me all these particular things. So by the time by the time I got married, I had money saved up. I was in this great position. But Will tells me this. He says he says, Lecrae, you have a gift, and I think you should pursue it. 00:29:35.190 --> 00:30:03.190 Wow. Now, to hear this straight laced, financially savvy person tell me to pursue rapping while I'm working at this marketing gig was like the light bulbs went off. Because to me, it sounded like the most irresponsible thing I could do, but for him, he's like, you need to do it. And so that was kind of the the thing I needed. Now, I couldn't just quit my job because everyone would've had a fit. 00:30:03.190 --> 00:30:26.580 The way God worked it out was my department was getting stripped and everyone was getting laid off. And they gave me an option. They said I could move to Philly and work in sales or take a three month severance pay and be done. And I'm sitting here thinking, I got three months to make this music work. Right. 00:30:26.580 --> 00:30:37.380 That's right. I got three months to make this music work. And so I just said, man, I'm gonna take the severance pay. And I went all in and finished up that album and never looked back. 00:30:37.655 --> 00:30:45.575 That's amazing, man. Well, how did you get were you with a record label at the time? I mean, so you went in the studio, spent your own money 00:30:45.655 --> 00:30:45.895 Mhmm. 00:30:46.535 --> 00:31:05.070 And you had songs. Yeah. What what what really amazes me about great rappers is is the the the lyrics. I mean, you guys are incredible songwriters as it relates to how you talk about life Mhmm. And and personal issues. 00:31:05.310 --> 00:31:17.275 And you put it into words and rhymes, and and it's just amazing. But then there's a whole another part, which is the beat and the music. Mhmm. So you came in and you you pretty much produced your own 00:31:17.515 --> 00:31:30.360 I had to. Yeah. So I had to. I I took you know, I was making pretty decent money at the time. You know, for a 24 year old guy to be making $37,000 a year It's 00:31:30.360 --> 00:31:30.920 not bad. 00:31:30.920 --> 00:31:48.695 Back in that day Mhmm. My rent was only like $500 and I don't I mean, I get free cable because, you know, I work for Comcast. So I I really just had rent and utilities. I didn't have any real overhead. And so I went to at the time, they had Guitar Center, and I was like, I gotta make beats. 00:31:48.695 --> 00:32:11.755 I went and bought some equipment. I spent maybe $700 on equipment, and I bought all the things needed to kind of create music and and record music. And and then, you know, studio time was about fifty dollars an hour. Mhmm. So I had to be really, you know, I had to know my lyrics. 00:32:11.755 --> 00:32:37.730 I had to be right on because when you get in that studio, if you don't have it done, if you don't have it memorized, there's just no room to mess up. You know, today, a lot of times rappers have tons of money. They hang out in the studio all day. They just you know, I had four hours to get this stuff done, and I'm trying to get as many songs done in four hours as I can possibly get done. So that was my goal, just to get in that studio and knock this album out. 00:32:38.425 --> 00:33:04.110 My now at the time, I had met my now business partner, Ben Washer, and Ben and I met at a sports camp called Kids Across America. He was a leader there. And he knew this music because it's all these inner city kids from around the nation, and he needed music that would resonate with them. And so he was like, the songs you're making are gonna resonate. And so we formed our own record label. 00:33:04.190 --> 00:33:14.255 Right? Reach Records. And didn't know anything about creating a record label. And as I said, I didn't have any networks. I didn't know people, any of those things. 00:33:14.255 --> 00:33:23.200 Neither one of us did. We just did it, bootstrapped it. Yeah. And went one person at a time, one group at a time. We sent it to that camp. 00:33:23.200 --> 00:33:40.905 That camp spread it to other people. And then and then I'll forget, there's a group of people who came to that camp to listen to the music. And my wife was going to a church in Dallas. Obviously, you know the church, Oak Cliff Bible Great Church. Yeah. 00:33:40.905 --> 00:34:03.420 And I went on Sunday and I knew the youth pastor, his name was Von at the time, and I knew Von. And so I went to go say what's up to Von and the youth group, and and they were playing my music. What? And I was like, what in the world is going on? And another assistant youth leader there said, man, this is this guy, Lecrae. 00:34:04.195 --> 00:34:10.115 Yeah, man. You gotta yeah. He's dope, man. Like, his new album, you gotta listen to it. Because it was word-of-mouth. 00:34:10.115 --> 00:34:17.555 There was no, like, social media. So he didn't know I was the rapper. Amazing. You know? Because I it wasn't my my face wasn't popular. 00:34:17.555 --> 00:34:28.450 Nobody knew who I was. And so, it was kinda cool. Like, I was like, this music made it all the way to this big old mega church. And and that was like a big moment for me. 00:34:28.530 --> 00:34:31.490 Man, that is the epitome of entrepreneurial ship. 00:34:31.675 --> 00:34:32.155 Mhmm. 00:34:32.155 --> 00:34:33.515 You've spent your own money. 00:34:33.515 --> 00:34:33.835 Mhmm. 00:34:33.835 --> 00:34:45.035 You had to market yourself. You had to make connections. I mean, nobody came and gave you money, and and you had to take risk. That's that's the big thing. You had to believe in yourself. 00:34:45.035 --> 00:34:45.435 That's right. 00:34:45.940 --> 00:34:56.660 So when did you hit it big? Like, what happened? Because, I mean, I've always been a fan of of hip hop. And see, I I remember the days when the Sugar Hill Gang, man. Yeah. 00:34:56.660 --> 00:35:12.865 You see, I when hip hop first came you see, I you know, hip hop that comes from this song, rapper's delight Mhmm. By Sugar Hill Gang. Mhmm. Because they they started off, they say hip hop, a hippity bhippity, hip hip hopity, don't stop. And so everybody's like, what is this, man? 00:35:13.640 --> 00:35:33.865 And, man, this was in the nineteen eighties, man, the early nineteen eighties, and I was in college. And they were sampling these great r and b songs that I loved, man. And so you put these lyrics and these raps with these songs. And then Quincy Jones, believe it or not, had an album and a song called The Dude. And he had yeah, man. 00:35:33.865 --> 00:35:38.825 His album was called The Dude, and he had rapping on it. And it was before rap 00:35:38.825 --> 00:35:39.145 I gotta 00:35:39.145 --> 00:35:44.480 check became popular. You gotta check it out, man. Check it out. And so this thing was building steam 00:35:44.720 --> 00:35:45.280 Mhmm. 00:35:45.440 --> 00:35:52.640 But I never thought it would get as big as it got. So I had always been a fan. 00:35:52.720 --> 00:35:53.280 Mhmm. 00:35:53.920 --> 00:36:03.925 And then I started hearing about this guy named Lecrae. Okay? But I I didn't I didn't know your music. Mhmm. And then I was looking at TV. 00:36:03.925 --> 00:36:07.205 It must it might have been Jay Leno or somebody. It was a late 00:36:07.285 --> 00:36:07.765 Jimmy Fallon. 00:36:07.765 --> 00:36:09.605 Jimmy Fallon. That's what it was. 00:36:09.605 --> 00:36:10.245 Jimmy Fallon. 00:36:10.245 --> 00:36:19.030 And they said, we got Lecrae coming. And I was like, man, this dude is that big? And I remember checking you out, man. Yeah. And I was blown away. 00:36:19.030 --> 00:36:19.430 Wow. 00:36:19.430 --> 00:36:35.605 So what happened to get you from, you know, you know, selling, you know, at at churches and and selling CDs and all that to being on a national renowned show, Jimmy Fallon. 00:36:35.925 --> 00:36:46.940 Stewardship. Wow. I mean, that's really what it is. You know, I think if you there's there's there's two ways that I believe people attain success. Right? 00:36:46.940 --> 00:36:48.140 There's God's way Yeah. 00:36:48.220 --> 00:36:49.340 And there's the world's way. 00:36:49.340 --> 00:37:11.200 Mhmm. God's way is man, he just begins to the way I always like it, and I I say I think of it like like water vessels. Right? You got you got a raft, you got a speedboat, and a raft is where you're just out here, man. You're just floating. 00:37:11.200 --> 00:37:24.205 I don't know where I'm going or how I'm gonna get there. Wherever the waves take me, I'm going. And then you got a speedboat where you're just like, going as fast as you can, as hard as you can. Now, the problem with the speedboat is it runs out of gas. Yeah. 00:37:24.205 --> 00:37:45.780 And and a lot of times when you're doing it the world's way, you run out of gas trying to get it as fast as you can. You're you're hustling, you're you're sneaky, you're conniving, you're wheeling and dealing. And that's how the music industry works. It's why you see a lot of people end up in prison or getting taken advantage of. And but then you also have just the lazy way of people like, well, hopefully it just happens for me. 00:37:45.780 --> 00:37:54.125 They're just a raft. Like, I'm just really good. No one sees me. You know. And then they're mad because no one's come to the hood to find them. 00:37:55.085 --> 00:38:07.080 And what I've learned is God's way is a sailboat. Yeah. A sailboat does take work. You do have to raise those sails. You do have to deal with that rudder. 00:38:07.160 --> 00:38:20.645 But then, you've stewarded what God has given you, and now you're waiting on the wind. Yeah. And the wind is God blowing. But you've gotta be prepared for God to blow. And if you're not prepared, well, you you weren't a good steward. 00:38:20.645 --> 00:38:34.280 Mhmm. And so for me, it was stewardship. It was taking care of the relationships. And no matter what business you're in, you're in the people business. So taking care of people, serving people, building relationships, treating people well. 00:38:34.280 --> 00:38:42.920 Mhmm. You know, I can't tell you, I I shook every fan's hand after the show, gladly. Mhmm. Right? And I wasn't sitting you know, I wanted to talk to these people. 00:38:44.045 --> 00:38:53.165 I did a million shows. I went everywhere. I drove my car till it literally caught on fire. Right? I I wasn't overspending. 00:38:53.485 --> 00:39:12.315 I was spending what needed to be spent. As we started to grow a little bigger, our second year, the money that I would make, I put it right back into the company. Man. I put it right back into the company. I said, you know what, I was making $37,000 a year working at this company. 00:39:12.315 --> 00:39:17.275 And if if our company made a 100,000, I'm still I'm making 37 because I don't 00:39:17.355 --> 00:39:17.675 Yeah. 00:39:17.675 --> 00:39:36.200 This is what I was surviving off of. I don't need to go above that. That's right. And I just kept reinvesting in our company, reinvesting in our company and signing different artists and upgrading the the quality of the mixes and different things like that. You know, you start paying for more marketing and different things along those lines. 00:39:36.200 --> 00:39:55.740 It's it's just an investment. And from there, people begin to trust you, you begin to get your business acumen up, and you learn how the business works because you're working in it and you're working on it That's right. At the same time. And I think what just happened is we just kept getting better. Man. 00:39:55.740 --> 00:40:19.635 We just kept getting better and the audience kept getting broader. Wow. And as we got better and the audience got broader, I think there was just a tidal wave Yeah. That took place where the outside world was like, what the heck is going on over here? I looked up one day and it was like, we had the number one song on Apple Music at the time and all the Nicki Minaj fans were mad at me like, how who is this Lecrae guy beating Nicki Minaj? 00:40:19.635 --> 00:40:21.155 Was that Anomaly? 00:40:21.155 --> 00:40:22.195 That was Anomaly. Yeah. 00:40:22.195 --> 00:40:23.075 Yeah. Man. 00:40:23.640 --> 00:40:32.840 Yeah. So, I mean, that was the number one album on Billboard that year. It beat Maroon five, it beat everybody. But, again, it was it was stewardship. Yeah. 00:40:32.840 --> 00:40:33.480 You know? 00:40:33.480 --> 00:40:47.885 Yeah. So while you were talking, was thinking of two verses. First Corinthians, believe it's four two. It says, it is required in stewards that he be found faithful. So stewardship, we're all stewards 00:40:48.125 --> 00:40:48.525 Mhmm. 00:40:48.525 --> 00:40:59.640 Because we all manage what we have. Mhmm. The issue is, are we faithfully managing it? That's good. And then Luke sixteen ten says, if you're faithful in a little, you'll be faithful with much. 00:40:59.640 --> 00:40:59.960 Mhmm. If 00:40:59.960 --> 00:41:06.575 you're dishonest with a little, you'll be dishonest with much, which tells me that the way to get much is to be faithful 00:41:06.575 --> 00:41:07.615 That's good. With the little. 00:41:07.615 --> 00:41:12.815 That's good. So do you feel like what you're saying is you were faithful in the little? 00:41:13.055 --> 00:41:21.730 Yeah. Faithful with the little. Yeah. Like, for sure, faithful with the little. And then but, you know, my wife is so like, she's a simple woman. 00:41:21.730 --> 00:41:28.690 She doesn't need much and she was a blessing for me. Wow. Because, you know, I didn't grow up with much and I'm like, well, we got a little excess, 00:41:28.690 --> 00:41:29.170 babe. You 00:41:29.170 --> 00:41:37.105 know, put some rims on this car. And she's like, you better not. Wow. We we our college loans aren't paid off. You're not putting rims on the car. 00:41:37.105 --> 00:41:41.905 Man. You know? And I was like, okay, you're right. You're right. And and that's just the way she's always been. 00:41:41.905 --> 00:41:54.900 And so I don't have the wife who's like, I need 20 pair of red bottoms. I need a Rolls Royce. I need all these things. She's she was never like that either. So it was being faithful with the little God. 00:41:54.900 --> 00:42:06.515 It entrusted us with the little. And then we were working alongside of disenfranchised people. Yeah. And it didn't make sense for us to be flaunting that in front of them. It just didn't make sense. 00:42:06.515 --> 00:42:07.875 And so, yeah, I 00:42:07.875 --> 00:42:14.060 totally agree. Man, that's so good. So you ended up getting married. You married Dara. 00:42:14.060 --> 00:42:14.460 Mhmm. 00:42:14.460 --> 00:42:36.495 And she was perfect for you, man, because she did not feed into that materialistic world that you could have gotten caught up in. That's right. Because I'm assuming, did you make money gradually, or did it start coming in where, like, woah, like, was there ever a time where it just took a tremendous jump? 00:42:36.575 --> 00:42:40.015 Yeah. We were living in Memphis at the time, 00:42:40.670 --> 00:42:43.790 and I remember, man, we were living in 00:42:43.790 --> 00:42:50.830 a 700 square foot house. You know, I'm making $37,000 a month. Mhmm. And A year or? A year, I'm sorry. 00:42:50.830 --> 00:43:15.940 37 And, thousand a you know, I had finally gotten I had a song called Background, and Background was we had cooked it up. It wasn't out yet. Right? And so, we cooked up the song and, you know, we're we're about to pack up and move to Atlanta. Right? 00:43:15.940 --> 00:43:32.795 So we're like, oh, here, we're gonna move to Atlanta. And I'm like, you know, we'll we'll find somewhere we can afford and and it's fine. And we record background, we put the song out, we found our place in Atlanta. And we were coming from very small means in Memphis. We get to Atlanta and it's it's a nicer townhouse Mhmm. 00:43:32.795 --> 00:43:45.480 You know, in like North Atlanta. It's nothing fancy. Mhmm. And background comes out, blows up. Song is on, like, the Wow Gospel and all those things. 00:43:45.480 --> 00:44:18.010 Remember that. And and so this song is one of the most downloaded songs I'd ever had at that point in time. And I remember, you know, getting a royalty check and and looking at it and saying, is this right? Because this is way more. And then, you know, I I was I was making $37,000 a year and I remember my I didn't have a financial advisor per se, but I had someone who was smart and could give me advice. 00:44:18.010 --> 00:44:27.325 Mhmm. And I got a check, and it was a 6 figure check. Wow. And I said, this is right. What do I do? 00:44:27.325 --> 00:44:36.525 What's going on? Now, was scared. Yeah. Because I went to him and I said, hey, I just got a 6 figure check-in the mail. Like, I'm scared, I'm a lose it. 00:44:36.525 --> 00:44:42.290 You know, I'm scared. What do I need to do? I was ready to just invest the whole thing, because I was like, I'm scared. Mhmm. I don't wanna be broke. 00:44:42.290 --> 00:45:00.545 Man. You know, I don't I never had a 6 figure check at one time. What the heck do I do? And so that was the the process of like, okay, money's starting to come in at a different scale now, and then it just kept growing and growing and growing. And it was kinda like, this is scary. 00:45:00.545 --> 00:45:04.385 I don't wanna get used to this because it could be gone at any minute. That was kinda my mindset. 00:45:04.385 --> 00:45:15.500 Gotcha. Yeah. Wow. So what were some of the temptations as the money came in? You know, some people say money changes people. 00:45:15.500 --> 00:45:20.700 Mhmm. I like to say that money doesn't change people. Money magnifies. 00:45:21.005 --> 00:45:21.405 Yeah. 00:45:21.405 --> 00:45:27.405 Amplifies Yeah. Who you already are. That's good. So it can bring out things in you that you didn't know were in you. 00:45:27.405 --> 00:45:28.045 Oh, yeah. 00:45:28.045 --> 00:45:29.565 Because you have choices 00:45:29.565 --> 00:45:29.885 Mhmm. When 00:45:29.885 --> 00:45:51.605 you have money, and you don't have those choices when you're broke and struggling. What good came out of you as you started to make money, as you started to become a multimillionaire and to see your wealth and your assets grow? What good did you see that came out of you? And then what were some of the things that came out of you that you said, uh-oh. Uh-oh. 00:45:51.605 --> 00:45:53.365 I I didn't know that was deep in there. 00:45:53.365 --> 00:46:04.965 There's a lot of uh-ohs. The good was that I didn't realize I was a generous person. I didn't realize that you know, I was generous with my time because it was all I had. Yeah. You know? 00:46:04.965 --> 00:46:16.060 So and I and I still wouldn't say, I'm a generous guy. Other people had to tell me, and I didn't realize that. You know, people were like, man, thank you for being so generous, man. Thank you for being so generous, man. Thank you for being so generous. 00:46:16.060 --> 00:46:38.080 And I was like, I didn't know that that I didn't you know, because to me, I'm like, oh, I guess so. But I I I think I just wanted to see other people do well. Mhmm. I wanted to see, you know, ministries and organizations and communities thrive. And and, yeah, I had a soft spot for disenfranchised people and communities. 00:46:38.080 --> 00:46:54.875 And I just I was like, if I saw something, I was like, babe, can we give to that? Babe, can we put some are you okay if we you know, because it stuff like that would break my heart. I would go on mission trips and I'd be like, hey, we could do it. You know, we we can afford to do this. We can give to this. 00:46:55.355 --> 00:47:05.380 And and that just became consistent with my character. Mhmm. I think it just was like especially when I started to learn, this isn't mine anyway. Yeah. This is God's. 00:47:05.380 --> 00:47:23.805 So I don't think God minds me helping his people. You know what I mean? Wow. So that was one of that's the good. The bad the bad is there's there's two people that needed therapy, okay, in me. 00:47:24.285 --> 00:47:49.605 One is a little boy who was insecure because he didn't have his dad. Because he would go to basketball games and and his teammates would have their dads in the stands or somebody would bring him some new Jordans, and I never had that. So that insecure kid was magnified. Right? And that what can I do to be to be seen as valuable? 00:47:49.685 --> 00:48:18.605 Because I don't feel valuable. So maybe if I buy something to add value to me, then I'll be more valuable to the outside world. So so that was an ugly part. But then that part of me is also fighting against another part of me, the little boy who grew up in scarcity and feels like if he does not have money in his account, he is his security is threatened. Yeah. 00:48:18.605 --> 00:48:48.585 That God is not my security. My bank account is my security. And so I gotta have money in there or I have no security whatsoever. And so this hoarder and this this kid who wanted to buy things to make sure he was valuable were bleeding out as well. And so those are two of the the things that got uglier, and I and, you know, just a couple realistic stories. 00:48:50.025 --> 00:49:06.270 You know, I remember the the hoarder in me is like, you know, we're not spending a bunch of money. Yeah. The insecure person in me is like, well, we need to spend something. And so I was like, I want a Range Rover. I want it for all the wrong reasons, though. 00:49:07.785 --> 00:49:27.110 I want a Range Rover because it'll make me feel valuable. Not because I understand the car, how how good and that's wrong with a Range Rover, but I didn't have good intentions. Mhmm. So I'll go buy a Range Rover, but I don't buy a brand new Range Rover because the hoarder in me is like, no, we not. So we're gonna get a used one that is cheaper. 00:49:27.430 --> 00:49:38.745 So I buy this Range Rover cash, and I'm riding around in this Range Rover, and I'm like, oh, I'm the man. Oh, I made it. I'm in my dream. You see me. I have arrived. 00:49:38.745 --> 00:50:06.605 And and, man, I I remember driving and I got to this little restaurant and I parked my car at the restaurant and I go inside and I go inside and I see a guy I know who was a follower of the Lord. But when I saw him, I didn't recognize him. He was flashy, he had all his jewelry on, his shades on in building, he had these two girls sitting beside him and he was married. And I 00:50:06.605 --> 00:50:08.205 said, hey, what's going? 00:50:08.205 --> 00:50:16.120 And he's like, yeah, I divorced her, man. You know, we getting money over here, da da da da. And I was like, could that be me? Man. That could be me. 00:50:16.440 --> 00:50:22.280 And it scared me. Wow. And and that was a moment where I was like, oh, this is who I have the potential to become. 00:50:22.280 --> 00:50:41.455 Wow. Yeah. Man, you were really grounded, man. So when I started making money, I was kinda becoming introduced to this whole bible based way of looking at your money. Mhmm. 00:50:41.455 --> 00:50:45.720 Okay? Meaning, God owns it all. Mhmm. Not me. Mhmm. 00:50:45.720 --> 00:50:57.535 I'm a steward. Mhmm. The purpose of a steward is to manage it in a way where your owner or master is happy. So it's not about me making myself happy. Mhmm. 00:50:57.535 --> 00:51:09.775 Even though in the process, you can make yourself happy. Sure. But it's about making God happy. Mhmm. So it seems like by the time you started making money, you were pretty grounded in some solid biblical principles. 00:51:10.360 --> 00:51:16.760 Did that come through you talking to people or going to churches, or where did that come from? 00:51:16.760 --> 00:51:37.485 Now that's a great question. I think, if I'm being honest, this is gonna sound kinda weird. I had an unhealthy perspective on money, biblically, because I was so far on the side of a poverty theology. Mhmm. Right? 00:51:37.485 --> 00:51:46.640 So I had heard sermons, and listen, this is not any knock against any of these people. Mhmm. But I had heard sermons from a John Piper 00:51:46.880 --> 00:51:47.120 Yes. 00:51:47.120 --> 00:52:15.030 Who said, don't waste your life. Now, I don't think I was his intended audience. He was speaking to an audience of people who were hoping to build up their retirement plans and go live on a beach and never think about the kingdom of God again. I'm coming from a community where we don't even know what a retirement plan is. And so, I took what he was saying very literal without thinking about the context that I was existing in. 00:52:15.030 --> 00:52:25.965 And I was like, well, I'm afraid to have money because money's gonna corrupt me. Yeah. I don't want it. It's gonna corrupt me, it's gonna corrupt me, it's gonna corrupt me, and I I gotta be poor, and I need to give it away. I give it all away, give it all away, give it all away. 00:52:25.965 --> 00:52:35.670 And I and I think I just I I knew the verse that said the love of money is the root of all evil, but I think I I interpreted it as money 00:52:35.830 --> 00:52:36.470 Oh my goodness. Yeah. 00:52:36.550 --> 00:53:00.135 Is the root of all evil. So I was scared of it. And I think because I was scared of it, I didn't go too far. I didn't move too far. It took a while for me to get to a healthy place, especially in Christian circles, certain Christian circles, if you have any semblance of wealth around you, it's like, oh, look at this guy. 00:53:00.135 --> 00:53:18.375 What is he doing? And so, man, I would drive a Dodge knowing that I wanted a Range Rover, knowing that I wanted a Mercedes because I was afraid of the criticism Yeah. That was gonna come back on me for stuff like that. So that's kind of the perspective. Alright. 00:53:18.375 --> 00:53:18.855 So a couple 00:53:18.855 --> 00:53:31.655 of words, and I want you to just kinda define them in your own way. Alright? And and did you lean that way or not? Alright. First one, prosperity theology. 00:53:32.190 --> 00:53:35.790 Oh, no. Never lean that way. Never lean that way. Yeah. How do you define it? 00:53:35.790 --> 00:53:44.190 Or because it was really big in the eighties, nineties, early two thousands. Yeah. What do you even think about the word prosperity? Yeah. 00:53:44.190 --> 00:53:55.605 I mean, prosperity would have made me cringe. The term would have made me cringe at that point in time. Yeah. Because to me, prosperity gospel was you use God to get what you want. Yeah. 00:53:55.605 --> 00:54:03.090 Right? You you don't want God. God is kinda like a stepping stool to get what you want. Yeah. And that's how I looked at prosperity gospel. 00:54:03.090 --> 00:54:09.090 I I if you would've said God wants me prosperous, I would've been like, get this person away from me Wow. Right now. Wow. 00:54:09.090 --> 00:54:16.035 Yeah. Amazing. What about the poverty mentality, which is the other end of that. 00:54:16.035 --> 00:54:18.675 Thought it was noble. Man. Thought it was godly. 00:54:18.675 --> 00:54:21.155 Struggling people you thought they were closer to god. 00:54:21.155 --> 00:54:49.265 Look at those godly people, man. I wish I could be more like them, but I unfortunately, god's gotta work on my heart because I just I I I can't give it all away. You know, to hear somebody wrote a book and it sold 4,000,000 copies and they gave all the royalties away, I was like, man, I aspire to be like that. I wish I could be like that. Knowing I'm the first person in my family to ever achieve any kind of financial stability, you know, my mom was freezing credit cards so she wouldn't use them. 00:54:49.825 --> 00:54:52.225 But I just thought, man, that's so godly. 00:54:52.225 --> 00:54:55.105 Wow. So those are obviously two extremes. 00:54:55.105 --> 00:54:55.345 Mhmm. 00:54:56.500 --> 00:55:17.675 Where do you fall now? Or how did you make that adjustment Yeah. From poverty mentality where struggling, giving it all the way Yeah. Was a virtue or at least you thought it was Yeah. Versus prosperity gospel where Jesus is your Santa God. 00:55:17.675 --> 00:55:18.315 Right. The 00:55:18.315 --> 00:55:30.640 church is your casino. Right. You know, where everything is about blessing, blessing, blessing, health, wealth uninterrupted. Yeah. How did you balance that? 00:55:31.520 --> 00:56:00.050 It took time, but I think I began to learn through reading, through talking to older, wiser people that it was a heart issue at the end of the day. Right? Like if if if my heart is wanting to honor the Lord with what I have, well, you can't I mean, all of us in America, to the rest of the world, we're all rich. Exactly right. Right? 00:56:00.050 --> 00:56:16.935 So so I was so self righteous and judgmental against people who have more money than me. But even when I was making $37,000 a year, I mean, I still am paying for cable. I still sleep on a bed every night. I still got running water. I still went to the corner store and bought a Snickers bar, and someone would say, that's wasteful. 00:56:17.095 --> 00:56:23.975 Right? How many pair of shoes do you have in your closet? Right? All you need is one, but I got multiple. So it was inconsistent. 00:56:24.560 --> 00:56:44.955 Right? It was really inconsistent. And I think now where I'm at is, it's like, man, I look at Abraham in the scriptures and I'm like, God made him pretty abundant. And then the story of the Israelites digging the wells and everywhere, they they land would get taken and they go dig a well and there will be water. It's like God just kept giving them provision. 00:56:45.515 --> 00:57:06.970 And and I'm like, God is not anti provision. He's not anti making people wealthy, Paul said. I mean, I've been content with a lot or with a little. And so now I'm like, okay, well Lord, if you bless me with a lot, it's not it's not it's supposed to flow through me. Yeah. 00:57:07.065 --> 00:57:09.865 You know what I mean? And and that's the heartbeat that I try 00:57:09.865 --> 00:57:21.870 to have now. Man, that's so so good. So two things. What's your biggest financial accomplishment? The thing that you're most proud of. 00:57:21.870 --> 00:57:41.445 Maybe it's an investment. Maybe it's a risk you took. Maybe it's something you did and it paid off and you say, yeah. But then what's your biggest financial failure or something that you're not proud of that happened financially and say, man, I would do that all over again Yeah. If I had another chance? 00:57:43.685 --> 00:57:56.140 I had you know, I've I've I've for years, you know, made at least a million dollars a year. Mhmm. Right? Consistently. At least. 00:57:57.340 --> 00:57:59.100 And so, that's been great. 00:57:59.100 --> 00:57:59.420 Yeah. 00:57:59.420 --> 00:58:00.780 Right? That's a blessing. 00:58:00.780 --> 00:58:01.020 Yes. 00:58:02.585 --> 00:58:21.690 And then I had a year where it was like, okay, we made a lot more than we normally make. What are we gonna do? Right? And at that point in time, I was like, I need to learn about investing more. I need to learn about alternative investments, I need to learn about VC and Angel and all these particular things. 00:58:21.690 --> 00:58:33.165 Right? So I'm I'm taking the classes and I'm trying to learn how all this stuff works. This is the the best and the worst decision at the same time, so I'm gonna give you both. 00:58:33.165 --> 00:58:33.645 Good. 00:58:33.645 --> 00:58:46.550 So, I'm taking all these classes. Now, mind you, I've always done real estate on the side. I have some different properties, I've done Airbnbs and rentals and stuff. All that's been great, it's been helpful. But now, was like, yo, we're gonna go big. 00:58:46.550 --> 00:59:04.585 Yeah. We're take some risks. Right? So I'm in this financial investment class, this VC class, and and I'm sitting with some guys, you know, and they're smart. Some guys from Sovereign Capital, and they're smart. 00:59:04.585 --> 00:59:20.970 And I'm listening to them, and they're like, well, here's the decision that we're about to make. And I was like, I'm a do the same make the same investment. And so we made an investment in the film industry. Mhmm. And it returned my investment, like, within six months. 00:59:20.970 --> 00:59:32.685 Wow. And it just kept paying and kept paying and kept paying and kept paying. And I was like, I'm good at this. I know what I'm doing. I got this figured out, man. 00:59:32.685 --> 00:59:36.605 I know what I'm doing. You know where I'm going. 00:59:36.605 --> 00:59:37.565 Yeah. Know where you're going. 00:59:37.565 --> 00:59:55.810 You know where I'm going. And so I'm like, well, shoot. I invested some money over here, it's returned tenfold. I'm just gonna do the same thing without having those people who really knew what they were doing. I'm like, I know what I'm doing. 00:59:56.505 --> 01:00:10.970 And, man, I started spreading money like seeds, like I was Elon Musk and just started throwing money. What do you got going on over there? We got a ice cream truck. Yeah. What you got going on over here? 01:00:10.970 --> 01:00:25.445 You okay. I'm gonna throw some and I just invest I invested in all kind of stuff, exercise equipment, all kind of people's ideas. Just just expecting it to all be like this. Then I haven't seen a dime of that money. Man. 01:00:25.685 --> 01:00:29.765 Not a dime. Not a dime. Nothing has come back. Man. Zero. 01:00:29.845 --> 01:00:45.670 Wow. So, I would say, thinking that I know and just throwing money at what I think I know was the biggest mistake. And then this this was God's money. Yeah. And I was like, you know, I didn't I didn't do due diligence, I just was prideful. 01:00:45.670 --> 01:00:46.070 Like, I 01:00:46.070 --> 01:00:55.035 know Money what I'm can make you feel proud, prideful. Make you it can make you feel like you're smarter than what you really are. 01:00:55.035 --> 01:00:55.595 That's right. 01:00:55.595 --> 01:01:11.010 Yeah, man. And then that sets you up for some big mistakes, you know. Have you ever made a really big financial mistake, man, or have you ever been hit financially really hard? Not not in the early days. I mean, why you know, a bad investment or something. 01:01:11.010 --> 01:01:16.625 Oh, yeah. And how did it make you feel, and what did you learn from that? I 01:01:16.625 --> 01:01:38.370 think the biggest the biggest hit for me was COVID. Yeah. COVID was massive because not only did I take a massive hit in stocks, you know, we lost so much money in stocks. Mhmm. I also wasn't making money because I wasn't able to do shows, concerts, events, anything along those particular lines. 01:01:39.010 --> 01:02:01.050 And and and it put me in a weird position where I didn't realize I had built my business infrastructure off making all that tour money. And now I'm watching my my, you know, life savings just dwindle lower and lower. And I was like, oh, shoot. This is putting me in a a weird place. Like, I don't know what's happening. 01:02:01.050 --> 01:02:07.210 And then on top of that, my record label at the time, like, for whatever reason, streaming started taking a hit. 01:02:07.210 --> 01:02:07.770 Mhmm. 01:02:07.770 --> 01:02:22.985 So now, we're not streaming well. So there's no there's no real income happening in the music industry. I'm not getting any shows. And, you know, my savings is dwindling. Yeah. 01:02:23.320 --> 01:02:47.645 So it just put me in a really precarious position and I was like, yo, I don't know what I'm doing. And the the the thing the biggest hit so this is the big hit. What I had done was I had gone in and bought some apartment complexes in South Atlanta. And, man, I you know, the economy was was was in trouble. And so people couldn't pay their rent. 01:02:47.725 --> 01:03:00.500 And I was in the I had to fix stuff, but I wasn't gonna get any money back. And I mean, people weren't paying their rent at all. So now I'm like millions in the hole Yeah. For this apartment that I've invested in. I'm not getting any return. 01:03:00.500 --> 01:03:02.340 All I'm doing is paying. Wow. Every month. 01:03:02.535 --> 01:03:02.855 Wow. 01:03:02.855 --> 01:03:07.175 Just paying. Mhmm. Paying. So it was looking bleak. It was it was scary. 01:03:07.255 --> 01:03:16.855 Man, I know that feeling. So what's the future like from a business and even a financial standpoint for Lecrae Moore? 01:03:18.620 --> 01:03:28.540 What do you see? You know, honestly, from a business standpoint, it's building things and selling things. 01:03:28.540 --> 01:03:28.940 Yeah. 01:03:28.940 --> 01:03:47.295 Right? Acquiring things and selling things. I think David Geffen is a incredible leader in the music and the film industry. And I've I've read his book, The Operator, and essentially, that's what business is. It's it's acquiring things and then being able to sell it for a higher price, and then learning how to do that again and again. 01:03:48.240 --> 01:04:14.265 And so that's kind of what I wanna do. But but in doing that, I want other people to have opportunities they wouldn't have otherwise had. I love creating opportunities for people. So if I can help, let's say, a business owner who's been he's got a roofing business forever, I can help him have a liquidity moment where it's like, man, let me put some capital in your back pocket. You can go retire and go do whatever it is that you really wanna do. 01:04:15.040 --> 01:04:35.075 And now, I have this this this business. I don't wanna run this business. I just wanna figure out how to make it better. I've got some friends who really wanna make this business better, puts money in their pocket because they're getting paid to learn how to make it better, and then I sell it, and then put money back in their pocket and and do that process again and again. Yeah. 01:04:35.075 --> 01:04:41.235 So that's part of what I'm excited about doing, as a as a business owner and entrepreneur. I love it, man. 01:04:41.235 --> 01:04:47.690 Yeah. Alright, Lecrae. I wanna ask you some questions and I want you to answer them rapid fire. Okay? Alright. 01:04:47.770 --> 01:04:53.770 Business ownership and the risk that comes with it or big fat guaranteed salary? 01:04:54.090 --> 01:04:55.770 Salary is tempting, and there's a 01:04:55.770 --> 01:05:05.885 lot of stability, but there's upside with being a business owner, going business owner. I like it. Yeah. Alright. Digital bible versus a physical bible. 01:05:06.205 --> 01:05:15.325 I I'm just old school. I enjoy the physical bible. I use my digital bible all the time, but I like when I'm really sitting down, getting to it, physical. Alright. 01:05:16.020 --> 01:05:20.820 Would you rather have time, freedom, or financial freedom? 01:05:23.140 --> 01:05:38.925 Yikes. I feel like that's tough. I'm gonna say time only because if I have time, I can create financial Yeah. Opportunities. I like that. 01:05:38.925 --> 01:05:39.725 Yeah. Okay. 01:05:41.050 --> 01:05:49.210 Control or delegation? Delegation. Yeah. Absolutely delegation. I know what I'm not good at. 01:05:49.210 --> 01:05:54.810 Right. Alright. A great credit score or significant cash reserves? 01:05:55.615 --> 01:06:10.090 That's tough. I guess it depends on what significant is. Yeah. Because I'll take a terrible credit score if I got a billion dollars in cash reserves. Oh, that's right. 01:06:10.330 --> 01:06:12.730 Who cares about a credit score if you got 01:06:12.730 --> 01:06:17.530 a billion dollars? That's right. Alright. Last one. Yeah. 01:06:18.010 --> 01:06:22.970 Would you rather make more money or need less money? 01:06:24.775 --> 01:06:42.640 I think because I've made a lot of money and that money had to be put in a lot of places, I'd rather need less money. Sometimes you make a million and you gotta spend 999,000. 01:06:42.640 --> 01:06:43.840 Exactly right. 01:06:43.840 --> 01:06:46.960 So I'd rather need less money. 01:06:46.960 --> 01:07:05.550 I love it, man. Alright, Lecrae. We're about to wrap up here. I always end our podcast with allowing my guests to ask the Stewardship Coach anything that they want to ask me, especially in the area of business and finance. So you know me, man. 01:07:05.550 --> 01:07:10.430 Mhmm. I'm your friend. I'm your pastor. Alright? And I'm a fan. 01:07:10.510 --> 01:07:12.350 Yeah. What have you always wanted to 01:07:12.350 --> 01:07:28.295 ask me? Alright. You have been a financial adviser and now you're a pastor. Yeah. People don't think money and pastoral leadership go together. 01:07:28.295 --> 01:07:41.310 Yeah. It gives people the heebie jeebies. Yes. What do you say to calm the nerves of folks who are leery of pastors talking about money? Great question. 01:07:42.030 --> 01:07:44.670 I remind them that 01:07:44.945 --> 01:08:01.620 the first people Jesus chose to be his disciples were business people. He didn't go in the synagogue. He didn't go in the temple and say, I like the way that guy reads scripture. Come and follow me. He didn't he didn't say, I like your theological education. 01:08:01.620 --> 01:08:16.655 Come and follow me. He went to fishermen, tax collectors, and he said, come and follow me. Peter like Peter. They were business people. So the people who changed the world, who were the the early adopters of the gospel Mhmm. 01:08:16.815 --> 01:08:36.780 Were business folks. Okay? Who made an ministry impact. So people who feel a little uncomfortable with me talking about business and finances, especially with my former career for twenty five years, I was in the investment business. I'm just doing what the disciples did. 01:08:36.780 --> 01:08:54.145 That's all. Taking what I learned in business, applying it to the most important business in the world, the most important thing in the world, and that is the the spreading of the gospel of Jesus Christ. That's what Peter did, and that's what I try to do. 01:08:54.970 --> 01:08:57.530 So you're calling yourself Peter? Yeah. I'm Peter, man. 01:08:58.330 --> 01:09:02.650 No. I'm not quite Peter. Hey. Let me say one more thing. One more thing. 01:09:02.970 --> 01:09:06.970 The skills that I learned in business, marketing 01:09:07.210 --> 01:09:07.450 Mhmm. 01:09:07.530 --> 01:09:37.470 Sales, customer service, operations. It's the same thing I do as a pastor because we have to market ourselves, we have to sell, which means when we preach, it has to be done in a way that inspires people, that attracts people, that excites people. Same thing I did in business. In business, my bottom line was to make a dollar. In ministry, my bottom line is to make a disciple. 01:09:40.093 --> 01:09:42.573 That's what's up. Man's good. 01:09:44.573 --> 01:09:45.373 He's good.