1 00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:02,450 Carol Cox: If you've been in the ivory tower, it's time 2 00:00:02,450 --> 00:00:04,250 to escape it and step into thought 3 00:00:04,250 --> 00:00:06,230 leadership for greater impact. 4 00:00:06,260 --> 00:00:08,120 Listen to my conversation with Dr. 5 00:00:08,120 --> 00:00:10,250 Laura McGuire on this episode of the 6 00:00:10,250 --> 00:00:11,840 Speaking Your Brand podcast. 7 00:00:16,070 --> 00:00:18,620 More and more women are making an impact by 8 00:00:18,620 --> 00:00:21,350 starting businesses, running for office and 9 00:00:21,350 --> 00:00:23,330 speaking up for what matters. 10 00:00:23,360 --> 00:00:25,580 With my background as a TV political 11 00:00:25,580 --> 00:00:28,460 analyst, entrepreneur and speaker, I 12 00:00:28,460 --> 00:00:30,920 interview and coach purpose driven women to 13 00:00:30,920 --> 00:00:33,440 shape their brands, grow their companies, 14 00:00:33,440 --> 00:00:36,080 and become recognized as influencers in 15 00:00:36,080 --> 00:00:39,440 their field. This is speaking your brand, 16 00:00:39,440 --> 00:00:41,930 your place to learn how to persuasively 17 00:00:41,930 --> 00:00:46,880 communicate your message to your audience. 18 00:00:46,880 --> 00:00:48,110 Hi there and welcome to the Speaking Your 19 00:00:48,110 --> 00:00:50,240 Brand podcast. I'm your host, Carol Cox. 20 00:00:50,240 --> 00:00:52,760 We're continuing our series around inspiring 21 00:00:52,760 --> 00:00:54,740 you to use your voice no matter what your 22 00:00:54,740 --> 00:00:56,420 topic or industry. 23 00:00:56,420 --> 00:00:57,770 Now, if you've been listening to this 24 00:00:57,770 --> 00:00:59,780 podcast for a while, you know that I talk 25 00:00:59,780 --> 00:01:01,850 quite a bit about what I call the expert 26 00:01:01,880 --> 00:01:04,280 trap and how so many of us get stuck 27 00:01:04,280 --> 00:01:06,770 teaching and training in our presentations 28 00:01:06,770 --> 00:01:08,690 and don't step into thought leadership. 29 00:01:08,690 --> 00:01:10,550 Now, this applies not only to those of us 30 00:01:10,550 --> 00:01:13,520 who are entrepreneurs, but of course to all 31 00:01:13,520 --> 00:01:15,410 the academics out there as well. 32 00:01:15,410 --> 00:01:17,750 And my hand is raised because I was in 33 00:01:17,750 --> 00:01:20,030 academia in the early part of my career. 34 00:01:20,030 --> 00:01:22,580 This episode is a treasure trove of insights 35 00:01:22,580 --> 00:01:24,860 for anyone passionate about making a 36 00:01:24,860 --> 00:01:26,810 difference through their work, especially if 37 00:01:26,810 --> 00:01:29,270 you're in academia or any field where 38 00:01:29,270 --> 00:01:32,390 expertise is a given and is very highly 39 00:01:32,390 --> 00:01:35,030 valued. But thought leadership can make an 40 00:01:35,030 --> 00:01:36,590 even bigger impact. 41 00:01:36,590 --> 00:01:39,860 My guess is Laura McGuire, PhD, a social 42 00:01:39,860 --> 00:01:43,160 scientist, educator and entrepreneur whose 43 00:01:43,160 --> 00:01:45,740 journey and work exemplify transformative 44 00:01:45,980 --> 00:01:47,210 thought leadership. 45 00:01:47,210 --> 00:01:49,640 If you would like to find out what speaker 46 00:01:49,640 --> 00:01:52,370 archetype you are, take our free quiz. 47 00:01:52,370 --> 00:01:54,680 It just takes a few minutes and then once 48 00:01:54,680 --> 00:01:56,480 you take the quiz, you'll get your results. 49 00:01:56,480 --> 00:01:58,550 You'll find out if you're a stellar scholar, 50 00:01:58,580 --> 00:02:00,920 a fabulous facilitator, a provocative 51 00:02:00,920 --> 00:02:03,860 performer, or a spellbinding storyteller. 52 00:02:03,860 --> 00:02:06,200 Once you get your result, then you'll also 53 00:02:06,200 --> 00:02:08,840 get recommendations for how to amplify your 54 00:02:08,840 --> 00:02:11,120 natural strengths and what to add to it. 55 00:02:11,120 --> 00:02:13,820 To make you an even more dynamic speaker, 56 00:02:13,820 --> 00:02:16,040 you can take this free quiz as speaking your 57 00:02:16,040 --> 00:02:17,960 Brand.com slash quiz. 58 00:02:17,990 --> 00:02:20,540 Again, that's speaking your brand.com/quiz. 59 00:02:20,540 --> 00:02:22,550 Now let's get on with the show. 60 00:02:23,270 --> 00:02:25,190 Welcome to the podcast, Laura. 61 00:02:25,430 --> 00:02:27,380 Dr. Laura McGuire: Thank you so much for having me, Carol. 62 00:02:27,380 --> 00:02:28,820 I'm so happy to be here. 63 00:02:28,820 --> 00:02:30,230 Carol Cox: It is a pleasure. 64 00:02:30,230 --> 00:02:32,390 We have known each other for the past few 65 00:02:32,390 --> 00:02:35,390 years, mostly through email communication. 66 00:02:35,390 --> 00:02:37,160 Every once in a while you write back to one 67 00:02:37,160 --> 00:02:39,140 of my emails newsletters about the latest 68 00:02:39,140 --> 00:02:41,180 podcast episode and tell me how much that 69 00:02:41,180 --> 00:02:43,160 you enjoyed it. So I always appreciate 70 00:02:43,160 --> 00:02:44,450 hearing from listeners like you. 71 00:02:44,450 --> 00:02:46,430 And I know we had chatted a few years ago to 72 00:02:46,430 --> 00:02:50,240 kind of about what you do with the teaching 73 00:02:50,240 --> 00:02:52,040 and the writing, and then also speaking. 74 00:02:52,040 --> 00:02:54,920 So I wanted to have you on the podcast to 75 00:02:54,920 --> 00:02:58,340 give us a perspective from from academia and 76 00:02:58,340 --> 00:03:00,950 from fellow social scientists that you work 77 00:03:00,950 --> 00:03:04,190 with and how they can escape the expert trap 78 00:03:04,190 --> 00:03:05,750 and step into thought leadership. 79 00:03:05,750 --> 00:03:07,160 Because we know and I have a background in 80 00:03:07,160 --> 00:03:08,780 academia, so I get it. 81 00:03:08,780 --> 00:03:10,940 We are prized for being experts. 82 00:03:10,940 --> 00:03:12,380 That's what our degrees in. 83 00:03:12,380 --> 00:03:15,260 That's how we get promoted and and awarded 84 00:03:15,260 --> 00:03:17,240 in the context in our workplaces. 85 00:03:17,240 --> 00:03:19,160 Same whether you're if you're a scientist or 86 00:03:19,160 --> 00:03:21,620 an engineer or a physician or a pharmacist. 87 00:03:21,620 --> 00:03:24,230 And by all means, I always say, please be an 88 00:03:24,230 --> 00:03:26,330 expert in your workplace and with your 89 00:03:26,330 --> 00:03:28,040 clients and with your customers, because 90 00:03:28,040 --> 00:03:30,110 that's what they need. They need your your 91 00:03:30,110 --> 00:03:32,390 expertise. But when we think about stepping 92 00:03:32,390 --> 00:03:33,770 into thought leadership, whether it's 93 00:03:33,770 --> 00:03:35,330 through public speaking or through writing a 94 00:03:35,330 --> 00:03:37,850 book, I really want us to think about how 95 00:03:37,850 --> 00:03:40,970 can we encourage our audiences to think 96 00:03:40,970 --> 00:03:44,360 differently, to think bigger, to help us to 97 00:03:44,360 --> 00:03:47,180 solve all these big challenges that we have, 98 00:03:47,330 --> 00:03:50,090 both in the micro level and the macro level? 99 00:03:50,090 --> 00:03:52,550 So, Laura, let me have you first tell us a 100 00:03:52,550 --> 00:03:54,470 bit about what you do in your background, 101 00:03:54,470 --> 00:03:55,700 and then we'll go from there. 102 00:03:55,850 --> 00:03:59,150 Dr. Laura McGuire: So I am a social scientist, as you mentioned, 103 00:03:59,360 --> 00:04:03,350 being in academia and was in the university 104 00:04:03,350 --> 00:04:05,120 system and worked for the government for a 105 00:04:05,120 --> 00:04:08,840 while and loved what I did and loved what I 106 00:04:08,840 --> 00:04:12,290 do, but really wanted to be able to go 107 00:04:12,290 --> 00:04:13,850 wherever the need was for these 108 00:04:13,850 --> 00:04:17,120 conversations. So I my again, a little more 109 00:04:17,120 --> 00:04:19,100 of my background is that my degree is 110 00:04:19,100 --> 00:04:21,080 specifically are on educational leadership 111 00:04:21,080 --> 00:04:23,300 for change, which is social justice and 112 00:04:23,300 --> 00:04:25,430 educational systems. And then my research 113 00:04:25,430 --> 00:04:27,680 for my dissertation was focused on sexual 114 00:04:27,680 --> 00:04:30,740 health education. So in this space I focus a 115 00:04:30,740 --> 00:04:33,260 lot on misconduct prevention, trauma 116 00:04:33,260 --> 00:04:36,020 informed care, and preventing and responding 117 00:04:36,050 --> 00:04:37,490 to interpersonal violence. 118 00:04:37,940 --> 00:04:42,290 So like you said, very, uh, expert kind of 119 00:04:42,290 --> 00:04:46,250 field niche and evolving into being an 120 00:04:46,250 --> 00:04:49,100 entrepreneur and really making my full time 121 00:04:49,100 --> 00:04:51,890 living, teaching, writing and speaking, it's 122 00:04:51,890 --> 00:04:53,030 really been. 123 00:04:53,700 --> 00:04:57,060 Creating transformational environments where 124 00:04:57,060 --> 00:05:00,630 people can learn and imagine a different 125 00:05:00,630 --> 00:05:02,850 future for themselves and their industry. 126 00:05:03,750 --> 00:05:05,700 Carol Cox: Okay. I have so many questions for you, 127 00:05:05,700 --> 00:05:07,260 especially because you live in the state of 128 00:05:07,260 --> 00:05:09,150 Florida, just like I do. 129 00:05:09,150 --> 00:05:13,680 And we know what our current governor has 130 00:05:13,680 --> 00:05:15,870 been doing in the past couple of years with 131 00:05:15,870 --> 00:05:18,930 laws that he has sponsored and that the 132 00:05:18,930 --> 00:05:20,640 legislature has passed. So we can talk about 133 00:05:20,640 --> 00:05:22,410 that towards the end, if you would like, and 134 00:05:22,410 --> 00:05:24,240 how that's impacting the work that you're 135 00:05:24,240 --> 00:05:25,830 doing and the work that you're seeing going 136 00:05:25,830 --> 00:05:27,900 on, not just in Florida, but in other states 137 00:05:27,900 --> 00:05:30,180 who may have done similar things or may 138 00:05:30,180 --> 00:05:32,850 follow suit. But before we get there, may I 139 00:05:32,850 --> 00:05:35,760 ask what got you interested in trauma 140 00:05:35,760 --> 00:05:39,990 informed care and sexual assault prevention 141 00:05:39,990 --> 00:05:40,680 and care? 142 00:05:40,710 --> 00:05:45,030 Dr. Laura McGuire: Yes. So my personal story very much feeds 143 00:05:45,030 --> 00:05:47,190 into that, in that I'm a survivor of 144 00:05:47,190 --> 00:05:48,240 domestic violence. 145 00:05:48,240 --> 00:05:51,600 And even before that, when I was young, was 146 00:05:51,600 --> 00:05:54,690 very passionate about social justice, social 147 00:05:54,690 --> 00:05:57,120 change and transformation and thinking about 148 00:05:57,120 --> 00:06:01,500 how systems either support that or prevent 149 00:06:01,500 --> 00:06:03,330 it from happening in the way that it should. 150 00:06:03,330 --> 00:06:05,970 So I was a high school dropout. 151 00:06:05,970 --> 00:06:10,020 I got married super young and started having 152 00:06:10,020 --> 00:06:12,930 children a few years after that and then 153 00:06:12,930 --> 00:06:15,600 realized, okay, this is not a safe and 154 00:06:15,600 --> 00:06:16,980 healthy situation. 155 00:06:16,980 --> 00:06:18,480 What am I going to do? 156 00:06:18,480 --> 00:06:22,590 I had no GED, no nothing, ended up getting 157 00:06:22,590 --> 00:06:25,830 that in my mid 20s and then really realized 158 00:06:25,830 --> 00:06:28,590 that a lot of things that I had thought 159 00:06:28,590 --> 00:06:32,100 about, college had evolved in that time, and 160 00:06:32,100 --> 00:06:34,350 there were options to do more independent 161 00:06:34,350 --> 00:06:37,170 learning, um, and still get wonderfully 162 00:06:37,170 --> 00:06:38,850 regionally accredited degrees. 163 00:06:38,850 --> 00:06:42,330 So I went from my GED to my doctorate in 164 00:06:42,330 --> 00:06:45,240 education in four years and eight months. 165 00:06:45,240 --> 00:06:47,640 Carol Cox: Oh my God, that's amazing. 166 00:06:47,640 --> 00:06:49,140 Congratulations. 167 00:06:49,260 --> 00:06:53,670 Dr. Laura McGuire: Thank you. And that experience particularly 168 00:06:53,670 --> 00:06:56,850 getting the bachelor's degree at first, was 169 00:06:56,850 --> 00:07:00,060 something that really gave me the keys to 170 00:07:00,060 --> 00:07:02,370 spaces that I had not grown up with. 171 00:07:02,370 --> 00:07:04,860 I come from generationally poor people, um, 172 00:07:04,860 --> 00:07:06,990 first person in the family to go to college 173 00:07:06,990 --> 00:07:10,830 and enter into that kind of life and future 174 00:07:10,830 --> 00:07:12,150 that I would want for myself and my 175 00:07:12,150 --> 00:07:14,460 children. And so I became a teacher. 176 00:07:14,460 --> 00:07:15,870 I worked with the school that partners with 177 00:07:15,870 --> 00:07:19,770 JPS and really loved what I was doing with 178 00:07:19,770 --> 00:07:20,850 those students. 179 00:07:20,850 --> 00:07:22,770 I'll start working in victim advocacy and 180 00:07:22,770 --> 00:07:24,360 being a full spectrum doula. 181 00:07:24,360 --> 00:07:27,570 So all of this fed into me then doing 182 00:07:27,570 --> 00:07:30,270 corporate training for that entity of 183 00:07:30,270 --> 00:07:32,970 schools, and they taught me a lot about 184 00:07:32,970 --> 00:07:34,830 gender responsive care, strength based 185 00:07:34,830 --> 00:07:36,930 theory, and trauma informed care. 186 00:07:37,470 --> 00:07:40,020 So that became the focus of my doctoral 187 00:07:40,020 --> 00:07:42,480 work. And from there, kind of things just 188 00:07:42,480 --> 00:07:44,040 continued to expand. 189 00:07:44,040 --> 00:07:46,260 And then as an entrepreneur, that has 190 00:07:46,260 --> 00:07:49,140 continued to be the main thing that so many 191 00:07:49,140 --> 00:07:52,830 industries are still really hungry for and 192 00:07:52,830 --> 00:07:54,930 not receiving enough support around. 193 00:07:54,930 --> 00:07:57,780 So that has kind of become my my bread and 194 00:07:57,780 --> 00:08:01,080 butter, my main stake in this conversation 195 00:08:01,080 --> 00:08:02,940 as a thought leader and business owner. 196 00:08:03,180 --> 00:08:05,160 Carol Cox: So tell me a little bit about with your 197 00:08:05,160 --> 00:08:07,680 business, who are your ideal clients, who 198 00:08:07,680 --> 00:08:10,080 comes to you and what does it look like that 199 00:08:10,080 --> 00:08:11,700 you do with them, and what kind of what what 200 00:08:11,700 --> 00:08:13,260 are the outcomes that they get? 201 00:08:13,260 --> 00:08:13,860 Yes. 202 00:08:13,860 --> 00:08:15,600 Dr. Laura McGuire: So it's kind of funny. 203 00:08:15,600 --> 00:08:18,660 Who is my ideal client was very different, I 204 00:08:18,660 --> 00:08:20,550 think in the beginning because I was focused 205 00:08:20,550 --> 00:08:22,590 on industries I had worked in and I was 206 00:08:22,590 --> 00:08:26,580 familiar in, but what has really blossomed 207 00:08:26,580 --> 00:08:29,820 and continued to grow has been industries 208 00:08:29,820 --> 00:08:32,640 that I had not really thought, okay, I'm 209 00:08:32,640 --> 00:08:35,280 going to put a lot of energy here, but 210 00:08:35,280 --> 00:08:38,070 still, who is my ideal client no matter the 211 00:08:38,070 --> 00:08:40,170 field that they're in, are people and 212 00:08:40,170 --> 00:08:43,350 organizations that are passionate about deep 213 00:08:43,350 --> 00:08:45,390 systemic paradigm shifts. 214 00:08:45,390 --> 00:08:48,450 They want to do that work and they want 215 00:08:48,450 --> 00:08:49,860 support to get there. 216 00:08:49,860 --> 00:08:54,450 So one of our mottos as an organization is 217 00:08:54,900 --> 00:08:56,700 when you're ready to make a change, we're 218 00:08:56,700 --> 00:08:59,340 ready to help make that happen, right? 219 00:08:59,340 --> 00:09:00,630 So they have to be in a place where they 220 00:09:00,630 --> 00:09:02,490 say, yes, we see this. 221 00:09:02,490 --> 00:09:03,720 We have a vision for this. Maybe we've 222 00:09:03,720 --> 00:09:06,150 already got some training, some kind of 223 00:09:06,150 --> 00:09:09,240 shifts going on already, but we want to take 224 00:09:09,240 --> 00:09:10,770 it to that next level. 225 00:09:10,770 --> 00:09:13,230 And so that's where training on everything 226 00:09:13,230 --> 00:09:15,510 from restorative practices at work to trauma 227 00:09:15,510 --> 00:09:19,470 informed care, to responding to misconduct 228 00:09:19,470 --> 00:09:22,440 in productive and survivor supportive ways 229 00:09:22,440 --> 00:09:26,040 has become what we do through education and 230 00:09:26,040 --> 00:09:27,900 through also strategic planning. 231 00:09:27,900 --> 00:09:30,180 So it's not just that was a great talk. 232 00:09:30,210 --> 00:09:31,920 Right now. There's actually action steps 233 00:09:31,920 --> 00:09:33,420 that we're putting in place behind it. 234 00:09:33,750 --> 00:09:36,570 Carol Cox: Now, when organizations and companies seek 235 00:09:36,570 --> 00:09:38,130 you out or come to you. 236 00:09:38,160 --> 00:09:40,350 Has there been, you know, what is known as 237 00:09:40,350 --> 00:09:42,030 like an inciting incident? 238 00:09:42,030 --> 00:09:44,100 I don't mean like an a problem with an 239 00:09:44,100 --> 00:09:46,080 employee, but I mean, like, what is like the 240 00:09:46,080 --> 00:09:47,940 trigger for them to say, okay, like we are 241 00:09:47,940 --> 00:09:50,250 ready for this next step. 242 00:09:50,580 --> 00:09:52,200 So two things. 243 00:09:52,200 --> 00:09:53,750 Dr. Laura McGuire: Usually. Stand out, right? 244 00:09:53,750 --> 00:09:57,080 One is that they're noticing that often 245 00:09:57,080 --> 00:09:59,690 there's a lot of fatigue, burnout and high 246 00:09:59,690 --> 00:10:03,050 turnover, and they're trying to identify 247 00:10:03,050 --> 00:10:04,910 where that's coming from and what to do 248 00:10:04,910 --> 00:10:05,930 about it. 249 00:10:05,930 --> 00:10:08,570 And again, maybe they've taken kind of one 250 00:10:08,570 --> 00:10:12,470 on one overviews on understanding burnout or 251 00:10:12,470 --> 00:10:14,900 emotional intelligence, but they're trying 252 00:10:14,900 --> 00:10:16,640 to do some of this deeper work. 253 00:10:16,670 --> 00:10:19,820 The other thing that we see a lot is where 254 00:10:19,820 --> 00:10:22,250 they really want to be able to differentiate 255 00:10:22,250 --> 00:10:24,710 themselves from their competitors in these 256 00:10:24,710 --> 00:10:28,280 deeper psychosocial ways, so they know 257 00:10:28,280 --> 00:10:30,020 there's other people out there. I just 258 00:10:30,020 --> 00:10:33,590 literally yesterday in Florida, wonderfully, 259 00:10:33,590 --> 00:10:37,070 did a training for a law firm who will be 260 00:10:37,070 --> 00:10:40,280 the first law firm where every single person 261 00:10:40,280 --> 00:10:42,350 who is part of it is certified in trauma 262 00:10:42,350 --> 00:10:45,080 informed care as a legal professional. 263 00:10:45,080 --> 00:10:46,790 And that's something that they decided to 264 00:10:46,790 --> 00:10:47,960 do, right. 265 00:10:47,960 --> 00:10:49,850 In the first month that they opened. 266 00:10:49,880 --> 00:10:52,370 They said, we want to be known as the people 267 00:10:52,370 --> 00:10:54,320 in this area and honestly throughout the 268 00:10:54,320 --> 00:10:56,960 country who our entire firm has these 269 00:10:56,960 --> 00:10:59,690 competencies. So it's usually one of those 270 00:10:59,690 --> 00:11:01,160 two paths that triggers it. 271 00:11:01,550 --> 00:11:03,920 Carol Cox: Okay. And so when I hear trauma informed 272 00:11:03,920 --> 00:11:06,170 care, usually the context that I've heard it 273 00:11:06,170 --> 00:11:08,030 in is either as a therapist, your mental 274 00:11:08,030 --> 00:11:09,920 health counselor, or as a physician. 275 00:11:09,920 --> 00:11:12,290 And, you know, you have patients who come to 276 00:11:12,290 --> 00:11:15,290 you. So in the context of a law firm or 277 00:11:15,290 --> 00:11:18,200 other non-medical workplace, what is trauma 278 00:11:18,200 --> 00:11:19,580 informed care look like? 279 00:11:19,580 --> 00:11:22,640 Dr. Laura McGuire: Yes. So trauma informed care is is so 280 00:11:22,640 --> 00:11:26,120 interesting because it really is instead of 281 00:11:26,120 --> 00:11:28,040 something that you're saying, well, if a 282 00:11:28,040 --> 00:11:29,780 client comes in and I'm their therapist and 283 00:11:29,780 --> 00:11:32,210 they're traumatized or like you're saying a 284 00:11:32,210 --> 00:11:34,640 medical provider, okay, you know, somebody's 285 00:11:34,640 --> 00:11:37,880 injured, I address that it's changing the 286 00:11:37,880 --> 00:11:41,420 lens through which we see all of the people 287 00:11:41,420 --> 00:11:42,740 we interact with. 288 00:11:42,770 --> 00:11:45,740 And in my program, we expand that to not 289 00:11:45,740 --> 00:11:49,520 just main trauma informed theory, but also 290 00:11:49,520 --> 00:11:52,070 things like spoon theory and consent 291 00:11:52,070 --> 00:11:53,690 culture, which is something that I've 292 00:11:53,690 --> 00:11:55,040 written a lot about. 293 00:11:55,040 --> 00:11:59,210 And so it's having this approach to the way 294 00:11:59,210 --> 00:12:00,980 that you're working with your clients, the 295 00:12:00,980 --> 00:12:02,810 way that you're communicating with them, the 296 00:12:02,810 --> 00:12:04,970 way that you're responding to them, how you 297 00:12:04,970 --> 00:12:07,130 are reading, the way they're interacting 298 00:12:07,130 --> 00:12:08,150 with you. 299 00:12:08,150 --> 00:12:11,960 And then it is also building organizational 300 00:12:11,960 --> 00:12:15,260 cultures that give these competencies to 301 00:12:15,260 --> 00:12:16,370 each other. Right. 302 00:12:16,370 --> 00:12:18,800 Because so often the mistake I think that's 303 00:12:18,800 --> 00:12:22,670 been made is we ask people to give and give 304 00:12:22,670 --> 00:12:26,390 and give a certain approach and to be okay 305 00:12:26,390 --> 00:12:27,620 with never receiving that. 306 00:12:27,620 --> 00:12:29,480 And that's just not sustainable. 307 00:12:29,480 --> 00:12:32,210 So our program is really balancing both of 308 00:12:32,210 --> 00:12:33,020 those sides. 309 00:12:33,470 --> 00:12:36,230 Carol Cox: Mhm. Okay. That that that makes sense Laura 310 00:12:36,230 --> 00:12:38,030 and I and I appreciate the part about the 311 00:12:38,030 --> 00:12:40,400 culture as a whole because I think about 312 00:12:40,400 --> 00:12:43,070 this so much. Everything from, you know, our 313 00:12:43,070 --> 00:12:46,640 society and whatever behaviors we are seeing 314 00:12:46,640 --> 00:12:48,470 are the ones that people tend to mimic. 315 00:12:48,470 --> 00:12:50,750 Because as humans we are mimickers. 316 00:12:50,750 --> 00:12:53,900 So we can be told all day long, you know, 317 00:12:54,110 --> 00:12:55,490 behave in a certain way. 318 00:12:55,490 --> 00:12:57,410 But if the people around us, especially our 319 00:12:57,410 --> 00:13:00,080 leaders, are not doing that, we are probably 320 00:13:00,080 --> 00:13:02,570 not going to respond the way that we've been 321 00:13:02,570 --> 00:13:03,140 told. 322 00:13:03,560 --> 00:13:05,420 Dr. Laura McGuire: Exactly, exactly. 323 00:13:05,420 --> 00:13:06,110 Yes. 324 00:13:06,110 --> 00:13:08,840 Carol Cox: Okay. So then let's so it sounds like you 325 00:13:08,840 --> 00:13:11,480 have done a great job and kind of shifting 326 00:13:11,480 --> 00:13:13,160 out of the expert trap and into thought 327 00:13:13,160 --> 00:13:15,650 leadership. Again, not with the kind of, you 328 00:13:15,650 --> 00:13:17,600 know, on the ground trainings and things 329 00:13:17,600 --> 00:13:19,160 that you're doing for your clients. 330 00:13:19,160 --> 00:13:20,750 Because again, they need that expertise 331 00:13:20,750 --> 00:13:22,550 because that's why they're hiring you. 332 00:13:22,550 --> 00:13:25,580 Yet you have probably found that the thought 333 00:13:25,580 --> 00:13:28,580 leadership does come into play, even during 334 00:13:28,580 --> 00:13:30,830 workshop trainings, in order for them to 335 00:13:30,830 --> 00:13:32,450 kind of see the big picture and what's 336 00:13:32,450 --> 00:13:34,640 possible and kind of where where they're 337 00:13:34,640 --> 00:13:36,350 taking not only their organization, but 338 00:13:36,350 --> 00:13:38,030 everyone that they come into contact with. 339 00:13:38,030 --> 00:13:39,650 So tell me a little bit about how you've 340 00:13:39,650 --> 00:13:41,000 developed your thought leadership over the 341 00:13:41,000 --> 00:13:41,570 years. 342 00:13:41,570 --> 00:13:44,780 Dr. Laura McGuire: Yeah, that's such a good distinction, right? 343 00:13:44,780 --> 00:13:48,560 Is that I think sometimes, particularly as 344 00:13:48,560 --> 00:13:50,180 you've mentioned, we come from this 345 00:13:50,180 --> 00:13:53,480 background where we're so intensely trained 346 00:13:53,510 --> 00:13:56,420 to have all of our sources and cite them and 347 00:13:56,420 --> 00:13:58,100 give a million statistics. 348 00:13:58,100 --> 00:13:59,870 And that's what a lot of times people get 349 00:13:59,870 --> 00:14:02,030 frustrated with. They say, I've heard this 350 00:14:02,030 --> 00:14:04,640 concept, I went to that training or I saw 351 00:14:04,640 --> 00:14:06,950 that keynote and it was a lot of really 352 00:14:06,950 --> 00:14:10,220 great facts, but I have no idea what to do 353 00:14:10,220 --> 00:14:11,330 with that. Right. 354 00:14:11,330 --> 00:14:12,980 What does that look like in my day to day 355 00:14:12,980 --> 00:14:15,860 life? And so that's where I think I've 356 00:14:15,860 --> 00:14:17,660 really moved into, like you're saying, this 357 00:14:17,660 --> 00:14:20,540 thought leadership space of getting people 358 00:14:20,540 --> 00:14:23,840 to really be in that space of expansive 359 00:14:23,840 --> 00:14:27,980 imagination around what does this look like 360 00:14:27,980 --> 00:14:29,420 in practical application. 361 00:14:29,810 --> 00:14:32,000 Right. And so we break down, here's the 362 00:14:32,000 --> 00:14:35,900 theories, here's the science, but here's 363 00:14:35,900 --> 00:14:37,430 what that looks like in an email. 364 00:14:37,430 --> 00:14:39,140 Here's what that looks like in a text 365 00:14:39,140 --> 00:14:42,560 message. Now you tell me, how do you think 366 00:14:42,560 --> 00:14:45,140 this would look like in a conversation about 367 00:14:45,140 --> 00:14:46,400 an employee's performance? 368 00:14:46,400 --> 00:14:50,540 Right. So making sure that people are seeing 369 00:14:50,540 --> 00:14:52,490 those examples and then giving. 370 00:14:52,650 --> 00:14:54,570 Multiple opportunities throughout our time 371 00:14:54,570 --> 00:14:57,750 together to also include their own 372 00:14:57,750 --> 00:15:01,140 imaginings, because everyone is learning 373 00:15:01,140 --> 00:15:02,430 from each other as well. 374 00:15:02,430 --> 00:15:04,020 And that's really important when we're 375 00:15:04,020 --> 00:15:05,940 facilitating these kinds of discussions. 376 00:15:06,480 --> 00:15:08,970 Carol Cox: And have you found that it's helpful to share 377 00:15:08,970 --> 00:15:11,850 stories in your workshops and trainings and 378 00:15:11,850 --> 00:15:13,410 even obviously in your keynotes and other 379 00:15:13,410 --> 00:15:15,210 speaking that you do either your own stories 380 00:15:15,210 --> 00:15:18,870 or stories of, you know, obviously, uh, that 381 00:15:18,870 --> 00:15:20,490 have been, you know, all the identifying 382 00:15:20,490 --> 00:15:22,710 details have been taken out, but stories 383 00:15:22,710 --> 00:15:24,390 that you have come across as well. 384 00:15:24,390 --> 00:15:25,740 And tell me a little bit about that and what 385 00:15:25,740 --> 00:15:26,700 that looks like. 386 00:15:27,600 --> 00:15:31,800 Dr. Laura McGuire: Stories, I think, are one of the things that 387 00:15:32,130 --> 00:15:34,920 makes people light up the most. 388 00:15:34,920 --> 00:15:37,050 Right? Because I can even say, well, I've 389 00:15:37,050 --> 00:15:39,360 seen a lot of situations like this, or I 390 00:15:39,360 --> 00:15:41,820 know as a professional this is incredibly 391 00:15:41,820 --> 00:15:44,640 common, but until you can give them a story 392 00:15:44,640 --> 00:15:49,500 of one person who went through that or had 393 00:15:49,500 --> 00:15:52,740 an example of that, they maybe don't see 394 00:15:52,740 --> 00:15:55,620 that as real as it is. 395 00:15:55,620 --> 00:15:58,110 Right? It kind of stays in the cerebral. 396 00:15:58,650 --> 00:16:00,990 So making sure that. 397 00:16:01,840 --> 00:16:04,930 I think it's a lot curating what stories are 398 00:16:04,930 --> 00:16:06,580 going to be the most effective, right. 399 00:16:06,580 --> 00:16:08,380 Because there's a million people that I've 400 00:16:08,380 --> 00:16:10,360 interacted with that have powerful things 401 00:16:10,360 --> 00:16:12,970 that they've shared with me that I have 402 00:16:12,970 --> 00:16:15,730 permission to share with somebody else. 403 00:16:15,730 --> 00:16:19,810 But which of those is going to highlight the 404 00:16:19,810 --> 00:16:22,210 kind of 10,000 foot view of the topic that 405 00:16:22,210 --> 00:16:25,000 we're discussing, and how vital this 406 00:16:25,000 --> 00:16:27,430 conversation that we're having really is? 407 00:16:27,550 --> 00:16:29,770 And then making sure that, right, whether 408 00:16:29,770 --> 00:16:31,660 it's a keynote or a training, those are 409 00:16:31,660 --> 00:16:33,550 sprinkled throughout. So usually it starts 410 00:16:33,550 --> 00:16:35,740 with an overview of the theory. 411 00:16:35,740 --> 00:16:38,440 We talk about more examples of that. 412 00:16:38,440 --> 00:16:40,390 And then we start getting into some of that 413 00:16:40,390 --> 00:16:43,180 storytelling. And I think that's one of the 414 00:16:43,180 --> 00:16:45,190 things that makes people who have the 415 00:16:45,190 --> 00:16:48,190 academic background so uniquely qualified to 416 00:16:48,190 --> 00:16:51,550 be thought leaders, because we can back up 417 00:16:51,550 --> 00:16:53,350 what we're saying with peer reviewed 418 00:16:53,350 --> 00:16:56,830 research. We also have a wealth of lived 419 00:16:56,830 --> 00:16:59,260 experience and stories to share. 420 00:16:59,260 --> 00:17:03,130 And that scholar survivor experience, 421 00:17:03,130 --> 00:17:04,840 especially in my field, is someone who's 422 00:17:04,840 --> 00:17:07,990 advocating for preventing violence is 423 00:17:07,990 --> 00:17:09,700 something that's so unique and I think a lot 424 00:17:09,700 --> 00:17:11,710 of people forget to tap into. 425 00:17:12,070 --> 00:17:14,380 Carol Cox: Yes. And I feel like for so many people in 426 00:17:14,380 --> 00:17:18,070 academia and other and even sciences, it's 427 00:17:18,070 --> 00:17:20,800 almost like for they've been trained out of 428 00:17:20,800 --> 00:17:23,470 storytelling and their personal experience 429 00:17:23,470 --> 00:17:26,410 by going through graduate school and then 430 00:17:26,410 --> 00:17:29,110 and then into the tenure track seeking 431 00:17:29,110 --> 00:17:30,760 positions and then into academia. 432 00:17:30,760 --> 00:17:33,610 And I it reminds me that last summer we 433 00:17:33,610 --> 00:17:35,440 worked with some University of California 434 00:17:35,440 --> 00:17:37,990 faculty members to help them develop their 435 00:17:37,990 --> 00:17:40,750 ten minute Ted style talks for an event at 436 00:17:40,750 --> 00:17:42,490 the University of California was putting on. 437 00:17:42,490 --> 00:17:44,800 So these were there were 8 or 9 of them. 438 00:17:44,800 --> 00:17:46,240 And of course, they and they wanted to 439 00:17:46,240 --> 00:17:48,910 present their research and everything from 440 00:17:48,910 --> 00:17:51,580 how to use concrete and cement in an 441 00:17:51,580 --> 00:17:54,010 environmentally sustainable way to the 442 00:17:54,010 --> 00:17:58,810 US-Mexico border to, uh, the history of 443 00:17:58,810 --> 00:18:00,640 resource extraction in Nigeria. 444 00:18:00,640 --> 00:18:02,500 I mean, there was like every, every single 445 00:18:02,500 --> 00:18:04,090 type of topic you can think of. 446 00:18:04,090 --> 00:18:06,130 And of course, they're super excited about 447 00:18:06,130 --> 00:18:08,080 their research, but they're so close to it 448 00:18:08,080 --> 00:18:10,540 because they live and breathe the minutia of 449 00:18:10,540 --> 00:18:12,370 it every single day. 450 00:18:12,370 --> 00:18:14,500 And so but they knew they needed it to be 451 00:18:14,500 --> 00:18:16,780 accessible to a lay audience, not to other 452 00:18:16,780 --> 00:18:18,580 people in their specific field. 453 00:18:18,580 --> 00:18:20,860 And so what we when we worked with them, we 454 00:18:20,860 --> 00:18:23,920 said, you have to bring out a personal story 455 00:18:23,920 --> 00:18:26,290 to make this relatable to your audience. 456 00:18:26,290 --> 00:18:28,660 So the woman who's an engineer with a 457 00:18:28,660 --> 00:18:30,700 concrete and cement, she has this great 458 00:18:30,700 --> 00:18:32,800 story of growing up on a on a farm where she 459 00:18:32,800 --> 00:18:35,020 convinced her mom to turn it organic because 460 00:18:35,020 --> 00:18:37,180 she realized the danger that the pesticides 461 00:18:37,180 --> 00:18:39,310 were having, not only to them, but to the 462 00:18:39,310 --> 00:18:40,330 horses. Right. 463 00:18:40,330 --> 00:18:41,470 Like that story. 464 00:18:41,470 --> 00:18:43,780 I remember that story, and I remember cement 465 00:18:43,780 --> 00:18:45,880 and concrete, but I'm not going to remember, 466 00:18:45,880 --> 00:18:47,920 like, all the details about the engineering 467 00:18:47,920 --> 00:18:50,560 part. So I'm sure, Laura, with the the 468 00:18:50,560 --> 00:18:52,780 social scientists that you come across, they 469 00:18:52,780 --> 00:18:54,700 probably kind of get challenged with the 470 00:18:54,700 --> 00:18:55,600 same thing. 471 00:18:55,600 --> 00:18:57,070 Dr. Laura McGuire: Yes. Exactly. 472 00:18:57,070 --> 00:18:59,500 Right. Because especially if you've ever 473 00:18:59,500 --> 00:19:01,300 defended whether it's a thesis or 474 00:19:01,300 --> 00:19:03,610 dissertation, you're so primed for. 475 00:19:03,610 --> 00:19:05,770 Well, let me point you back to the research. 476 00:19:05,770 --> 00:19:08,050 Let me point you back to these numbers and 477 00:19:08,050 --> 00:19:12,100 these tables and the schema that we coded. 478 00:19:12,100 --> 00:19:15,250 And the general public is like, that's 479 00:19:15,250 --> 00:19:17,350 lovely. I don't really care. 480 00:19:17,920 --> 00:19:19,810 I'm not even sure what you're talking about 481 00:19:19,810 --> 00:19:20,830 half the time. 482 00:19:21,190 --> 00:19:23,200 So exactly. 483 00:19:23,200 --> 00:19:25,960 Blending that with our stories. 484 00:19:25,960 --> 00:19:29,440 And I think that no matter our subject. 485 00:19:29,440 --> 00:19:31,300 Right. Like you're using concrete as a great 486 00:19:31,300 --> 00:19:34,870 example, whether it's something that, yes, a 487 00:19:34,870 --> 00:19:36,820 lot of people can understand, like I think 488 00:19:36,820 --> 00:19:39,040 my topic many people have concerns about, so 489 00:19:39,040 --> 00:19:40,840 they're excited to hear someone speak on 490 00:19:40,840 --> 00:19:43,690 that or it's something that's even more 491 00:19:43,690 --> 00:19:47,620 niche, like cement and organic farming. 492 00:19:47,620 --> 00:19:50,860 Right? People care about people. 493 00:19:50,980 --> 00:19:54,490 And when we hear someone's story and we 494 00:19:54,490 --> 00:19:57,760 connect to that and we see ourselves 495 00:19:57,760 --> 00:20:00,970 reflected in it, or we see someone that is 496 00:20:00,970 --> 00:20:04,060 encouraging us, that we feel inspired by, 497 00:20:04,060 --> 00:20:07,480 and then we start to buy into the concepts 498 00:20:07,480 --> 00:20:09,370 that they're sharing. Right? 499 00:20:09,370 --> 00:20:12,460 So building that bridge is something that I 500 00:20:12,460 --> 00:20:15,070 think we do need to train for more in 501 00:20:15,070 --> 00:20:17,920 academia. Uh, last summer and now will 502 00:20:17,920 --> 00:20:19,300 happen again this summer, I'm actually 503 00:20:19,300 --> 00:20:23,050 teaching a class for social science majors 504 00:20:23,050 --> 00:20:26,740 on entrepreneurship, because so many of them 505 00:20:26,740 --> 00:20:28,900 are not going to get a great paying job 506 00:20:28,900 --> 00:20:30,040 right after school. 507 00:20:30,040 --> 00:20:31,120 They're just not. 508 00:20:31,120 --> 00:20:33,550 And I fell into that trap myself of 509 00:20:33,550 --> 00:20:36,280 thinking, oh, you know, I'm abd all but 510 00:20:36,280 --> 00:20:38,260 dissertation I'll totally get a faculty 511 00:20:38,260 --> 00:20:41,980 position. Took five years, I think, to just 512 00:20:41,980 --> 00:20:44,050 get an adjunct position. 513 00:20:44,050 --> 00:20:46,840 It's so competitive and hard right now, but 514 00:20:46,840 --> 00:20:49,540 yet there are so many opportunities. 515 00:20:49,540 --> 00:20:51,280 And honestly, especially as someone who's a 516 00:20:51,280 --> 00:20:53,560 single mom for seven years, a lot of really 517 00:20:53,560 --> 00:20:56,560 good money in things like corporate training 518 00:20:56,560 --> 00:20:58,870 and speaking, and the people who are often 519 00:20:58,870 --> 00:21:00,550 on those stages are regurgitating the 520 00:21:00,550 --> 00:21:02,060 research we're doing. Weighing. 521 00:21:02,060 --> 00:21:04,460 And if we can just learn to explain these 522 00:21:04,460 --> 00:21:07,610 things in a more digestible way, we can have 523 00:21:07,610 --> 00:21:09,020 those opportunities to. 524 00:21:09,740 --> 00:21:11,870 Carol Cox: Oh, I'm so glad to hear that you are teaching 525 00:21:11,870 --> 00:21:14,420 them entrepreneurship, that I love that and 526 00:21:14,420 --> 00:21:17,360 I think, you know, so I'm abd for 22 years. 527 00:21:17,360 --> 00:21:22,820 So you know I know it's a long story, but 528 00:21:22,820 --> 00:21:24,680 yeah, I left graduate school with a master's 529 00:21:24,680 --> 00:21:27,260 instead of PhD back in 2002. 530 00:21:27,260 --> 00:21:29,480 Yeah, a very long time ago, because I 531 00:21:29,480 --> 00:21:31,700 realized at the time that the classmates, a 532 00:21:31,700 --> 00:21:33,980 year or two ahead of me were struggling to 533 00:21:33,980 --> 00:21:35,270 get tenure track positions. 534 00:21:35,270 --> 00:21:38,480 And Emory is like the top of the R2 schools. 535 00:21:38,480 --> 00:21:40,820 So it's a good school, but it's not an Ivy 536 00:21:40,820 --> 00:21:42,980 League. So yes, it's going to be it was much 537 00:21:42,980 --> 00:21:44,840 more, you know, competitive and harder for 538 00:21:44,840 --> 00:21:47,150 us to get into those tenure track positions. 539 00:21:47,150 --> 00:21:49,730 And I saw that and I was like, well, let me 540 00:21:49,730 --> 00:21:52,490 make a left turn into tech entrepreneurship, 541 00:21:52,700 --> 00:21:56,060 right? But it was funny that Emory and the 542 00:21:56,060 --> 00:21:58,340 alumni network come back to me periodically 543 00:21:58,340 --> 00:22:01,040 and say, can you talk to people about making 544 00:22:01,040 --> 00:22:03,170 the transition from academia into 545 00:22:03,170 --> 00:22:05,360 entrepreneurship because they realize that 546 00:22:05,480 --> 00:22:08,180 there are a lot of skills we learn that are 547 00:22:08,180 --> 00:22:09,590 transferable to entrepreneurs. 548 00:22:09,830 --> 00:22:11,900 It just looks very different than the career 549 00:22:11,930 --> 00:22:13,850 path we originally set out on when we were 550 00:22:13,850 --> 00:22:14,600 younger. 551 00:22:14,600 --> 00:22:17,150 Dr. Laura McGuire: Yes, exactly, exactly. 552 00:22:17,150 --> 00:22:19,790 And I think if schools are going to be a 553 00:22:19,790 --> 00:22:22,100 good investment for students and they're 554 00:22:22,100 --> 00:22:23,840 seeing a lot of students leave because 555 00:22:23,840 --> 00:22:25,670 they're like, I'm not really seeing the 556 00:22:25,670 --> 00:22:28,220 return in this. The ROI is looking very 557 00:22:28,220 --> 00:22:33,050 good. Roi return on investment, but all the 558 00:22:33,050 --> 00:22:37,070 acronyms, if we can set them up for this 559 00:22:37,070 --> 00:22:41,540 kind of success for a world and any industry 560 00:22:41,540 --> 00:22:43,970 that is constantly going to be innovating. 561 00:22:43,970 --> 00:22:45,650 I think we talked about before we got on the 562 00:22:45,650 --> 00:22:47,930 air, I and how that's changing so many 563 00:22:47,930 --> 00:22:48,980 fields, right? 564 00:22:48,980 --> 00:22:51,080 You need to be in a place where you can 565 00:22:51,080 --> 00:22:54,560 quickly adapt and grow, and whether you work 566 00:22:54,560 --> 00:22:57,320 for someone and have your own business or 567 00:22:57,320 --> 00:22:59,600 your own businesses, the whole thing. 568 00:22:59,600 --> 00:23:02,660 I think people really need to be thinking 569 00:23:02,660 --> 00:23:05,240 more that way instead of, you know, I'll get 570 00:23:05,240 --> 00:23:08,330 this job, I'll have it for this many years 571 00:23:08,330 --> 00:23:10,040 and I'll retire. 572 00:23:10,310 --> 00:23:12,830 Um, those avenues are getting smaller and 573 00:23:12,830 --> 00:23:15,530 smaller. So making sure that people 574 00:23:15,530 --> 00:23:18,350 understand what does it look like to do this 575 00:23:18,350 --> 00:23:20,930 and succeed in these spaces, I think is 576 00:23:20,930 --> 00:23:21,710 really vital. 577 00:23:22,220 --> 00:23:24,140 Carol Cox: Yes. And great point about artificial 578 00:23:24,140 --> 00:23:26,630 intelligence, in that the skills that I feel 579 00:23:26,630 --> 00:23:28,160 like are going to be needed in the coming 580 00:23:28,160 --> 00:23:32,030 years are communication skills and all the 581 00:23:32,030 --> 00:23:34,760 the humanities and social sciences skills, 582 00:23:34,760 --> 00:23:38,030 which so many people have decided students 583 00:23:38,030 --> 00:23:39,590 in the past 20 years decided to go into 584 00:23:39,590 --> 00:23:41,300 computer science and Stem, which is great if 585 00:23:41,300 --> 00:23:42,830 they truly that was their passion and that's 586 00:23:42,830 --> 00:23:44,480 what they love. But I feel like humanities 587 00:23:44,480 --> 00:23:47,150 and social sciences kind of got a short, a 588 00:23:47,150 --> 00:23:49,070 short shrift in that time. 589 00:23:49,070 --> 00:23:50,780 And there's so many valuable things that we 590 00:23:50,780 --> 00:23:53,000 learn like critical thinking, research 591 00:23:53,000 --> 00:23:56,240 skills, synthesizing, understanding. 592 00:23:56,240 --> 00:23:58,190 You know, how, how things relate to each 593 00:23:58,190 --> 00:24:00,440 other, how ideas connect with each other, 594 00:24:00,440 --> 00:24:02,630 and then how to share those with different 595 00:24:02,630 --> 00:24:04,790 audiences. And so, Laura, let's talk about 596 00:24:04,790 --> 00:24:09,380 the social science, uh, professors and, you 597 00:24:09,380 --> 00:24:12,230 know, those who are in academia or academic 598 00:24:12,230 --> 00:24:16,070 adjacent and how you, you know, if there's 599 00:24:16,070 --> 00:24:18,050 any of them listening to this conversation 600 00:24:18,050 --> 00:24:20,990 right now, how they can start thinking about 601 00:24:20,990 --> 00:24:24,410 getting into paid speaking engagements and 602 00:24:24,410 --> 00:24:27,050 doing paid trainings so that they know that 603 00:24:27,050 --> 00:24:29,090 tenure at a university is not their only 604 00:24:29,090 --> 00:24:32,180 option, that there are other ways that they 605 00:24:32,180 --> 00:24:34,130 can use their skills in their degrees. 606 00:24:34,130 --> 00:24:39,710 Dr. Laura McGuire: Yes. Okay, so the first thing I want to tell 607 00:24:39,710 --> 00:24:43,070 any social scientist or any academic who's 608 00:24:43,070 --> 00:24:44,570 listening is. 609 00:24:45,790 --> 00:24:47,710 Publishing in journals is great. 610 00:24:47,710 --> 00:24:51,100 Being known by your colleagues is fabulous, 611 00:24:51,100 --> 00:24:53,680 but if you want to move into this space, you 612 00:24:53,680 --> 00:24:55,840 need to tell the world what you know, and 613 00:24:55,840 --> 00:24:59,260 you need to make it at a level where you 614 00:24:59,260 --> 00:25:01,810 could speak to a group of ninth graders. 615 00:25:01,810 --> 00:25:03,130 I always think that's like a good target 616 00:25:03,130 --> 00:25:06,250 audience to think about their reading level 617 00:25:06,250 --> 00:25:07,840 and their comprehension level. 618 00:25:07,840 --> 00:25:11,080 And how do I make that something that people 619 00:25:11,080 --> 00:25:12,520 are going to be engaged with? 620 00:25:12,520 --> 00:25:15,370 So starting with getting you're used to 621 00:25:15,370 --> 00:25:18,310 writing, think about taking little quotes 622 00:25:18,310 --> 00:25:21,010 from what you've written and putting that 623 00:25:21,010 --> 00:25:24,250 into posts and posting that on social media. 624 00:25:24,250 --> 00:25:26,140 Right. People see that. 625 00:25:26,140 --> 00:25:27,610 They want to know more. 626 00:25:27,610 --> 00:25:30,880 When you see things in your field showing up 627 00:25:30,880 --> 00:25:34,510 in pop culture in the news, post those 628 00:25:34,510 --> 00:25:36,250 articles and comment on them. 629 00:25:36,250 --> 00:25:38,110 Record a video where you share your 630 00:25:38,110 --> 00:25:39,670 expertise about them. 631 00:25:39,670 --> 00:25:42,940 I think especially where video platforms are 632 00:25:42,940 --> 00:25:44,020 becoming much more popular. 633 00:25:44,020 --> 00:25:45,910 Now we're seeing reels on Instagram and 634 00:25:45,910 --> 00:25:47,260 TikTok really exploding. 635 00:25:47,260 --> 00:25:49,660 We're seeing more academics really own that 636 00:25:49,660 --> 00:25:52,300 space, and people love it because they're 637 00:25:52,300 --> 00:25:53,860 like, okay, I don't want to hear just 638 00:25:53,860 --> 00:25:56,410 someone who has an opinion, oh, this person 639 00:25:56,410 --> 00:25:58,030 went to school for this. This is really 640 00:25:58,030 --> 00:26:01,060 cool. They're offering stuff that I've never 641 00:26:01,060 --> 00:26:02,500 seen highlighted before. 642 00:26:02,860 --> 00:26:05,200 So take this moment. 643 00:26:05,200 --> 00:26:07,120 This is an incredible opportunity to move 644 00:26:07,120 --> 00:26:08,530 into these spaces. 645 00:26:08,800 --> 00:26:11,170 Um, then you really need to think about what 646 00:26:11,170 --> 00:26:14,410 is your brand and how are you going to 647 00:26:14,410 --> 00:26:15,460 package yourself. 648 00:26:15,460 --> 00:26:18,130 Right. You need at least a basic website that 649 00:26:18,130 --> 00:26:19,840 tells people that you're awesome and that 650 00:26:19,840 --> 00:26:23,410 you're available how to contact you. 651 00:26:23,410 --> 00:26:26,620 Right. And one of the things I teach a lot 652 00:26:26,620 --> 00:26:29,380 about in this class is really understanding 653 00:26:29,380 --> 00:26:33,250 what are the market rates for speaking in 654 00:26:33,250 --> 00:26:36,100 your field? Um, because so many academics 655 00:26:36,100 --> 00:26:38,620 are also used to being grossly underpaid. 656 00:26:38,650 --> 00:26:40,690 Um, I was a teacher before I was an 657 00:26:40,690 --> 00:26:43,150 academic. Right? So like teachers, social 658 00:26:43,150 --> 00:26:48,070 workers, um, we make so little money that we 659 00:26:48,070 --> 00:26:49,810 think, well, you know, if I ask for like a 660 00:26:49,810 --> 00:26:52,120 few hundred dollars, that that'd be wild. 661 00:26:52,120 --> 00:26:53,680 That'd be amazing. 662 00:26:53,740 --> 00:26:56,050 And then you see, oh, these people with no 663 00:26:56,050 --> 00:26:59,140 degrees and no experience working in my 664 00:26:59,140 --> 00:27:02,800 field are commanding thousands and 665 00:27:02,800 --> 00:27:04,270 thousands, if not tens of thousands of 666 00:27:04,270 --> 00:27:06,910 dollars. You can get there, too. 667 00:27:06,910 --> 00:27:08,770 It's just getting your name out there 668 00:27:08,770 --> 00:27:12,640 consistently. So I think a lot of that is 669 00:27:12,640 --> 00:27:16,750 also learning to deal with the messages 670 00:27:16,750 --> 00:27:18,280 we've received about we don't do this for 671 00:27:18,280 --> 00:27:21,430 the money or we don't really need anything 672 00:27:21,430 --> 00:27:22,480 for this. 673 00:27:22,480 --> 00:27:25,900 Uh, you know, the university settings and k 674 00:27:25,900 --> 00:27:28,660 12 primes you for that mentality. 675 00:27:28,660 --> 00:27:30,130 And it's not helpful. 676 00:27:30,130 --> 00:27:32,140 What I always tell my students is someone is 677 00:27:32,140 --> 00:27:34,150 writing that big of a check and giving it to 678 00:27:34,150 --> 00:27:37,090 someone, it will be you, or it will be 679 00:27:37,090 --> 00:27:39,190 someone who knows half of what you do. 680 00:27:39,190 --> 00:27:41,950 Why not put yourself out there and try? 681 00:27:43,100 --> 00:27:46,010 Carol Cox: Laura, I am so glad that you shared that 682 00:27:46,010 --> 00:27:48,110 because I could not agree more. 683 00:27:48,110 --> 00:27:51,260 And I do feel like for so many of us who who 684 00:27:51,260 --> 00:27:53,720 do we love? What we do, we love speaking, we 685 00:27:53,720 --> 00:27:55,400 love sharing what we do. 686 00:27:55,400 --> 00:27:57,080 And so we kind of, you know, this was 687 00:27:57,080 --> 00:27:58,250 definitely me early in my career. 688 00:27:58,250 --> 00:28:00,320 I feel like, well, I would be here anyways, 689 00:28:00,320 --> 00:28:03,770 so right I and do I need to get paid for it 690 00:28:03,770 --> 00:28:05,540 as well. And like you said, yes, because 691 00:28:05,540 --> 00:28:08,210 they're going to pay someone and you've put 692 00:28:08,210 --> 00:28:11,990 in not only all of the education and the 693 00:28:11,990 --> 00:28:14,810 hard work and everything, but also just the 694 00:28:14,810 --> 00:28:18,830 creating a fantastic talk, you know, takes 695 00:28:18,830 --> 00:28:21,320 takes effort, it takes time, it takes 696 00:28:21,320 --> 00:28:24,500 iteration. And you absolutely should be paid 697 00:28:24,500 --> 00:28:25,880 accordingly for that. 698 00:28:25,880 --> 00:28:29,030 And it reminds me of a podcast episode that 699 00:28:29,030 --> 00:28:31,460 Brene Brown did before she stopped her 700 00:28:31,460 --> 00:28:34,040 podcast, which I really wish she would bring 701 00:28:34,040 --> 00:28:35,540 it back because I really enjoyed listening 702 00:28:35,570 --> 00:28:38,510 to it. But she shared that she was doing a 703 00:28:38,510 --> 00:28:40,790 talk and this was after she had become well 704 00:28:40,790 --> 00:28:43,130 known, so she had done her viral TEDx talk. 705 00:28:43,130 --> 00:28:44,210 She had written several books. 706 00:28:44,210 --> 00:28:46,280 By this point she was well known. 707 00:28:46,280 --> 00:28:48,920 She was backstage at an event and she was the 708 00:28:48,920 --> 00:28:50,570 headliner keynote speaker. 709 00:28:50,570 --> 00:28:51,920 They had some other speakers there, but she 710 00:28:51,920 --> 00:28:53,120 was the headliner. 711 00:28:53,120 --> 00:28:56,090 She was backstage, I think, and then another 712 00:28:56,090 --> 00:28:57,530 speakers agent was there. 713 00:28:57,530 --> 00:28:59,510 So not her agent, but someone else who was 714 00:28:59,510 --> 00:29:03,110 another speaker there said to her, Rene, you 715 00:29:03,110 --> 00:29:06,050 know. That, like my speaker and the other 716 00:29:06,050 --> 00:29:07,460 speakers here are getting paid a lot more 717 00:29:07,460 --> 00:29:10,080 than you are. I guess because the agent 718 00:29:10,110 --> 00:29:12,360 knew. And she's like, what? 719 00:29:13,110 --> 00:29:14,550 Like, what do you mean? 720 00:29:14,790 --> 00:29:16,500 They're all getting paid more than me? 721 00:29:16,500 --> 00:29:18,750 And they said, yeah, like double what? 722 00:29:18,750 --> 00:29:19,860 You're getting paid. 723 00:29:19,860 --> 00:29:22,920 And she had thought before that conversation 724 00:29:22,920 --> 00:29:24,390 kind of like, you know, again, she's in 725 00:29:24,390 --> 00:29:25,890 academia. That's where her background like, 726 00:29:25,890 --> 00:29:28,290 oh, like I'm getting paid this much to come 727 00:29:28,410 --> 00:29:30,120 do a show. She thought she was well 728 00:29:30,120 --> 00:29:31,980 compensated already. 729 00:29:31,980 --> 00:29:33,240 Then she finds this out. 730 00:29:33,240 --> 00:29:35,820 So she goes to her own agent after that and 731 00:29:35,820 --> 00:29:37,410 says, basically double my fee. 732 00:29:37,920 --> 00:29:41,340 Um, but she would have had no idea because 733 00:29:41,340 --> 00:29:43,170 people don't talk about it. 734 00:29:43,170 --> 00:29:44,670 They don't talk about what they're getting 735 00:29:44,670 --> 00:29:46,380 paid or what you should get paid. 736 00:29:46,380 --> 00:29:47,340 And that's why I want to make sure we're 737 00:29:47,340 --> 00:29:48,720 having this conversation. 738 00:29:48,720 --> 00:29:50,190 Dr. Laura McGuire: Yes. No. 739 00:29:50,190 --> 00:29:53,340 Exactly. And I also want to put the caveat, 740 00:29:53,790 --> 00:29:55,710 because I think sometimes we say, you know, 741 00:29:55,710 --> 00:29:57,240 we got to ask for more. We got to ask for 742 00:29:57,240 --> 00:30:01,380 more for people who come from any kind of 743 00:30:01,380 --> 00:30:02,790 marginalized community. 744 00:30:03,600 --> 00:30:06,870 It's partially knowing that you can ask for 745 00:30:06,870 --> 00:30:08,370 more and what you can ask for. 746 00:30:08,370 --> 00:30:10,830 And I think we need to talk to speakers who 747 00:30:10,830 --> 00:30:13,590 are in a more privileged place and say, tell 748 00:30:13,590 --> 00:30:15,750 me what I can be asking for that you think 749 00:30:15,750 --> 00:30:18,480 is just, you know, run of the mill has to be 750 00:30:18,480 --> 00:30:22,380 expected. But also we have to address that a 751 00:30:22,380 --> 00:30:24,270 lot of the people who are booking these 752 00:30:24,270 --> 00:30:26,460 spaces and writing these checks will push 753 00:30:26,460 --> 00:30:29,280 back. Yes, against women, against people of 754 00:30:29,280 --> 00:30:32,280 color, against queer folks, where they won't 755 00:30:32,280 --> 00:30:35,280 push back against a white, male, cisgender 756 00:30:35,280 --> 00:30:37,170 person. You know, they come to them and they 757 00:30:37,170 --> 00:30:38,400 say, I need this much money. 758 00:30:38,400 --> 00:30:40,950 And these many, you know, things that make 759 00:30:40,950 --> 00:30:44,430 me feel comfortable and well compensated. 760 00:30:44,430 --> 00:30:46,800 And I'm like, sure, of course you've got it. 761 00:30:46,800 --> 00:30:49,590 And marginalized people come forward and 762 00:30:49,590 --> 00:30:51,360 say, I think I deserve the same. 763 00:30:51,360 --> 00:30:53,880 Well, I don't know. 764 00:30:53,880 --> 00:30:56,100 So there's two sides to it, right? 765 00:30:56,100 --> 00:30:58,770 We're working in systems that are actively 766 00:30:58,770 --> 00:31:01,860 pushing back against us, getting to a place 767 00:31:01,860 --> 00:31:05,490 of equality. And at the same time, we have 768 00:31:05,490 --> 00:31:07,140 to keep pushing, right? 769 00:31:07,140 --> 00:31:10,710 We can't just sit back and accept that, um, 770 00:31:10,710 --> 00:31:12,510 there's no way it's going to change long 771 00:31:12,510 --> 00:31:14,220 term if we don't collectively do this 772 00:31:14,220 --> 00:31:14,910 together. 773 00:31:15,360 --> 00:31:16,980 Carol Cox: Oh, Laura, I am so glad you mentioned that. 774 00:31:16,980 --> 00:31:20,820 And you are absolutely right, because these 775 00:31:20,820 --> 00:31:22,920 organizations, they probably would have 776 00:31:22,920 --> 00:31:26,550 offered the male speaker more off the bat 777 00:31:26,550 --> 00:31:28,470 than a woman speaker or, like you said, 778 00:31:28,470 --> 00:31:30,540 LGBTQ or some or some other marginalized 779 00:31:30,540 --> 00:31:31,860 community person. 780 00:31:31,860 --> 00:31:33,120 And then. Right. 781 00:31:33,120 --> 00:31:37,140 And then when we push back, we seem pushy or 782 00:31:37,140 --> 00:31:40,230 aggressive or what have you in their minds, 783 00:31:40,230 --> 00:31:41,250 in their own minds. 784 00:31:41,250 --> 00:31:43,200 And so I wonder, you know, the first thought 785 00:31:43,200 --> 00:31:45,150 that I have is it's great if you have a 786 00:31:45,150 --> 00:31:48,180 speaker agent to do that negotiation on your 787 00:31:48,180 --> 00:31:50,610 behalf, because then kind of takes you out 788 00:31:50,610 --> 00:31:52,470 of it. It feels less personal, right? 789 00:31:52,470 --> 00:31:54,330 They're kind of like that, that that third 790 00:31:54,330 --> 00:31:55,950 party intermediary. 791 00:31:55,950 --> 00:31:57,570 But obviously not all of us have a speaker 792 00:31:57,570 --> 00:31:59,310 agent. Most of us don't because we're not 793 00:31:59,310 --> 00:32:01,380 Brené Brown or at that level. 794 00:32:01,380 --> 00:32:04,530 I don't know if, like an executive assistant 795 00:32:04,530 --> 00:32:07,320 could play that role or if there's, you 796 00:32:07,320 --> 00:32:09,330 know, someone that you could kind of, you 797 00:32:09,330 --> 00:32:11,790 know, within your, your business kind of I'm 798 00:32:11,790 --> 00:32:13,950 thinking, you know, for us and for listeners 799 00:32:13,950 --> 00:32:16,170 kind of task with that being that 800 00:32:16,170 --> 00:32:18,510 intermediary, like, you could still read the 801 00:32:18,510 --> 00:32:21,600 emails and like help your EA, you know, how 802 00:32:21,600 --> 00:32:23,430 to respond, but then you're kind of 803 00:32:23,430 --> 00:32:25,320 distancing yourself a little bit from the 804 00:32:25,320 --> 00:32:27,270 negotiation. And what do you think about 805 00:32:27,270 --> 00:32:28,650 that, Laura? And any other suggestions that 806 00:32:28,650 --> 00:32:29,430 you have? 807 00:32:29,610 --> 00:32:31,320 Dr. Laura McGuire: Yeah, it's interesting you bring that up. 808 00:32:31,320 --> 00:32:33,210 I mean, I've tried a little bit of that. 809 00:32:33,210 --> 00:32:35,550 I just haven't found kind of the right 810 00:32:35,550 --> 00:32:36,720 person. So I don't know if someone's 811 00:32:36,720 --> 00:32:38,070 listening to this and they're like, I'm the 812 00:32:38,070 --> 00:32:39,990 right person, right? Talk to me. 813 00:32:39,990 --> 00:32:42,900 Yes. Because yeah, I think a lot of speakers 814 00:32:42,900 --> 00:32:44,340 do need to get to that place. 815 00:32:44,340 --> 00:32:46,680 And even as business owners, if you aren't 816 00:32:46,680 --> 00:32:48,660 someone who wants to be on front of stages, 817 00:32:48,660 --> 00:32:50,550 whatever your product is that you're 818 00:32:50,550 --> 00:32:53,340 selling, I think there's a great strength in 819 00:32:53,340 --> 00:32:55,410 having somebody else be your sales and 820 00:32:55,410 --> 00:32:59,010 marketing person, because you are packaging 821 00:32:59,010 --> 00:33:01,170 your soul essentially, right? 822 00:33:01,170 --> 00:33:03,330 There is so much emotion with this. 823 00:33:03,330 --> 00:33:06,390 When people say no or it's too expensive or 824 00:33:06,390 --> 00:33:10,410 they don't like something about it, it is a 825 00:33:10,410 --> 00:33:12,330 direct attack. I mean, you can say it's not, 826 00:33:12,330 --> 00:33:15,180 but that is going to be how it feels. 827 00:33:15,390 --> 00:33:17,460 So if there's somebody else who says, you 828 00:33:17,460 --> 00:33:19,590 know what, this isn't my heart and soul. 829 00:33:19,590 --> 00:33:22,680 This didn't come from my mind and my years 830 00:33:22,680 --> 00:33:24,480 of experience. 831 00:33:24,480 --> 00:33:26,640 So I can go out there and I can deal with 832 00:33:26,640 --> 00:33:28,650 the pushback. I can deal with the negativity 833 00:33:28,650 --> 00:33:30,480 and find the right market for you. 834 00:33:30,480 --> 00:33:31,920 That's awesome. 835 00:33:31,920 --> 00:33:35,310 And if you're not at that place yet, or 836 00:33:35,310 --> 00:33:36,930 again, you haven't found the right person to 837 00:33:36,930 --> 00:33:38,310 really fit that. 838 00:33:38,310 --> 00:33:42,480 I think it is continuing to see what other 839 00:33:42,480 --> 00:33:44,550 people are getting and reminding yourself, 840 00:33:44,550 --> 00:33:46,290 even if there's pushback, even if someone 841 00:33:46,290 --> 00:33:50,040 says no, you're not imagining that this is 842 00:33:50,040 --> 00:33:52,650 what you're worth and standing firm in that 843 00:33:52,650 --> 00:33:53,520 foundation. 844 00:33:54,090 --> 00:33:55,260 Carol Cox: Mhm. Yes. 845 00:33:55,260 --> 00:33:56,550 Yeah that's a yeah. It is hard. 846 00:33:56,550 --> 00:33:57,600 It's hard being an entrepreneur. 847 00:33:57,600 --> 00:34:00,090 It's hard being a speaker or whomever you 848 00:34:00,090 --> 00:34:02,820 know putting yourself out there and you know 849 00:34:02,820 --> 00:34:06,030 facing the potential and real rejections 850 00:34:06,030 --> 00:34:09,690 that come. I will say that the more you put 851 00:34:09,690 --> 00:34:11,520 yourself out there and the more sales 852 00:34:11,520 --> 00:34:13,650 conversations you have, the easier it does 853 00:34:13,650 --> 00:34:15,570 get. You know, like sometimes I'll talk to 854 00:34:15,570 --> 00:34:17,490 women. Not everyone signs up. 855 00:34:17,490 --> 00:34:19,140 That's just the nature of business. 856 00:34:19,140 --> 00:34:21,720 And there are some of them where I feel 857 00:34:21,720 --> 00:34:23,760 like, oh my gosh, like, she would be so 858 00:34:23,760 --> 00:34:25,950 perfect. Like, you know, I love her energy 859 00:34:25,950 --> 00:34:27,090 and I love the work that she does. 860 00:34:27,090 --> 00:34:28,800 And it's just not a right fit or a right fit 861 00:34:28,800 --> 00:34:31,530 at the time. For her, it reminds me there's 862 00:34:31,530 --> 00:34:33,360 a book that I recently read called Self from 863 00:34:33,360 --> 00:34:35,850 love. It's actually really, really good and 864 00:34:35,850 --> 00:34:39,600 kind of changes your mindset around thinking 865 00:34:39,600 --> 00:34:42,240 about selling again, selling your speaking, 866 00:34:42,240 --> 00:34:43,650 or selling in your business. 867 00:34:43,650 --> 00:34:44,820 I'll put a link in the show notes. 868 00:34:44,820 --> 00:34:46,260 It's called sell from love. I forget the 869 00:34:46,260 --> 00:34:48,030 author's name, but she does a really good 870 00:34:48,030 --> 00:34:50,220 job of helping you, kind of thinking 871 00:34:50,220 --> 00:34:55,170 through, kind of like, you know, you're 872 00:34:55,170 --> 00:34:56,970 having these conversations with potential 873 00:34:56,970 --> 00:34:59,100 clients and ultimately you want to serve 874 00:34:59,100 --> 00:35:00,510 what's best for them. 875 00:35:00,510 --> 00:35:02,280 And I know that that's what I want to do. 876 00:35:02,280 --> 00:35:03,900 I know Laura, that's. You want to do in your 877 00:35:03,900 --> 00:35:06,150 business as well. So it's almost like you 878 00:35:06,150 --> 00:35:09,300 become that kind of collaborative partner 879 00:35:09,300 --> 00:35:11,400 for them to figure out what is best for 880 00:35:11,400 --> 00:35:13,590 them. Maybe it is our services, but maybe 881 00:35:13,590 --> 00:35:15,600 it's not. Or maybe it's not right now. 882 00:35:15,600 --> 00:35:17,520 Right. So you're kind of having a little bit 883 00:35:17,520 --> 00:35:21,450 of detachment from the the outcome, like the 884 00:35:21,450 --> 00:35:23,340 sales transaction outcome. 885 00:35:23,340 --> 00:35:25,230 And instead of looking at it as this 886 00:35:25,230 --> 00:35:27,390 collaborative, this collaboration with that 887 00:35:27,390 --> 00:35:29,160 person. So I'm like, okay, that helps. 888 00:35:29,160 --> 00:35:31,590 That helps. Yeah, no. 889 00:35:31,590 --> 00:35:34,260 Dr. Laura McGuire: I do I like that and I think. 890 00:35:35,080 --> 00:35:38,470 Right, considering am I the best fit? 891 00:35:38,470 --> 00:35:40,870 And also and this is really hard. 892 00:35:40,870 --> 00:35:42,850 So I say this with humility. 893 00:35:42,850 --> 00:35:46,420 Not saying it's easy, but accepting that you 894 00:35:46,420 --> 00:35:48,370 actually don't want to work with everybody. 895 00:35:49,440 --> 00:35:51,810 Some people are not going to be good for 896 00:35:51,810 --> 00:35:54,510 you, and you are going to be miserable if 897 00:35:54,510 --> 00:35:56,130 things move forward with them. 898 00:35:56,130 --> 00:36:00,240 So having the courage to be able to say, I 899 00:36:00,240 --> 00:36:04,380 don't want every single opportunity, I want 900 00:36:04,380 --> 00:36:06,900 the right ones at the right time for me. 901 00:36:07,260 --> 00:36:09,210 Carol Cox: Yes. And that goes with speaking engagements 902 00:36:09,210 --> 00:36:10,920 too. There could be a speaking engagement 903 00:36:10,920 --> 00:36:13,590 comes along and maybe it's a good fee and 904 00:36:13,590 --> 00:36:15,150 you're like, wow, that sounds great. 905 00:36:15,150 --> 00:36:16,620 But then you learn a little bit more about 906 00:36:16,620 --> 00:36:18,480 the event or the audience and you kind of 907 00:36:18,480 --> 00:36:21,150 realize, oh, like, that's just is not going 908 00:36:21,150 --> 00:36:23,820 to light me up like that type of event or 909 00:36:23,820 --> 00:36:25,680 audience or the topic they want me to speak 910 00:36:25,680 --> 00:36:27,060 on, whatever it happens to be. 911 00:36:27,060 --> 00:36:29,400 This doesn't this doesn't fulfill me in the 912 00:36:29,400 --> 00:36:31,470 same way. So then you have to decide, like, 913 00:36:31,470 --> 00:36:33,780 is is it worth taking that? 914 00:36:33,780 --> 00:36:36,390 And then you foreclose other opportunities 915 00:36:36,390 --> 00:36:37,860 on that in that period of time because 916 00:36:37,860 --> 00:36:39,480 you're only one person, right? 917 00:36:39,480 --> 00:36:41,340 You only be in one place at one time. 918 00:36:41,340 --> 00:36:45,900 Or do you do you let that go and in, you 919 00:36:45,900 --> 00:36:47,730 know, the hopes that something else comes 920 00:36:47,730 --> 00:36:49,170 along that is a better fit? 921 00:36:49,680 --> 00:36:51,690 Dr. Laura McGuire: Yes, exactly. 922 00:36:51,690 --> 00:36:54,030 And I think another thing in that too, is 923 00:36:54,030 --> 00:36:55,350 talking about the fees. 924 00:36:55,920 --> 00:36:57,780 One thing that I've really learned is 925 00:36:57,780 --> 00:37:02,130 prioritizing, really focusing on the bigger 926 00:37:02,130 --> 00:37:06,150 fee, higher pay opportunities, instead of a 927 00:37:06,150 --> 00:37:09,510 lot of smaller fee opportunities. 928 00:37:09,510 --> 00:37:11,340 And people come at this from different 929 00:37:11,340 --> 00:37:12,750 angles, right? Some people really want to 930 00:37:12,750 --> 00:37:14,460 saturate the market and they want to be 931 00:37:14,460 --> 00:37:16,530 everywhere. And someone turns around like, 932 00:37:16,560 --> 00:37:17,850 there they are, there they are. 933 00:37:17,850 --> 00:37:19,800 And that's great. That's their approach. 934 00:37:20,220 --> 00:37:23,190 But again, especially as parents, I know 935 00:37:23,190 --> 00:37:25,560 that being home with my children is a really 936 00:37:25,560 --> 00:37:26,820 important thing to me. 937 00:37:26,820 --> 00:37:30,450 And so being able to make what I would have 938 00:37:30,450 --> 00:37:34,440 made, doing maybe 20 engagements in two 939 00:37:34,440 --> 00:37:37,680 engagements, um, is, is really important. 940 00:37:37,680 --> 00:37:39,390 So I think that's always something to 941 00:37:39,390 --> 00:37:42,060 consider too. Do you want to be everywhere? 942 00:37:42,060 --> 00:37:44,490 And that is one approach and it's great. 943 00:37:44,490 --> 00:37:49,350 Or would you rather be a few places and have 944 00:37:49,350 --> 00:37:51,840 your time for other things as well? 945 00:37:52,230 --> 00:37:53,670 Carol Cox: Um, yes. Excellent. 946 00:37:53,670 --> 00:37:54,780 Excellent point. 947 00:37:54,990 --> 00:37:56,940 Laura, I just something just popped in my 948 00:37:56,940 --> 00:37:59,010 mind about ways that we can negotiate our 949 00:37:59,010 --> 00:38:02,490 speaker fees. So speaking of I, we could 950 00:38:02,490 --> 00:38:04,830 have at some point an AI bot. 951 00:38:04,830 --> 00:38:06,870 And this is coming whether we want it or 952 00:38:06,870 --> 00:38:08,430 not. So basically we're getting to the point 953 00:38:08,430 --> 00:38:10,740 where emails, exchanges that we have with 954 00:38:10,740 --> 00:38:12,510 other people, the AIS will be writing to 955 00:38:12,510 --> 00:38:14,310 each other anyways because, you know, like 956 00:38:14,310 --> 00:38:15,990 Microsoft Outlook is going to be doing that. 957 00:38:15,990 --> 00:38:18,180 And Gmail on certain at some point will be 958 00:38:18,180 --> 00:38:19,980 able to respond automatically. 959 00:38:19,980 --> 00:38:22,290 So then we can just have the AIS negotiate. 960 00:38:23,070 --> 00:38:24,510 Dr. Laura McGuire: That would be amazing. 961 00:38:24,510 --> 00:38:27,300 I would love yes, an AI assistant, just go 962 00:38:27,300 --> 00:38:30,690 find my work for me, negotiate the contracts 963 00:38:30,690 --> 00:38:32,550 and just tell me where to show up. 964 00:38:32,550 --> 00:38:33,600 That would be awesome. 965 00:38:34,260 --> 00:38:36,270 Carol Cox: And you know what? It is going to happen. 966 00:38:36,270 --> 00:38:38,820 It is. All right. 967 00:38:38,820 --> 00:38:41,220 Laura. So as I said at the intro, we both 968 00:38:41,220 --> 00:38:43,830 live in the state of Florida and our current 969 00:38:43,830 --> 00:38:47,340 governor is definitely, uh, on has been on a 970 00:38:47,340 --> 00:38:51,090 warpath with, with the all of the bills and 971 00:38:51,090 --> 00:38:53,580 legislation that he has been promoting and 972 00:38:53,580 --> 00:38:55,440 that they have been passing here in Florida 973 00:38:55,440 --> 00:38:57,060 over the past couple of years. 974 00:38:57,060 --> 00:39:00,570 Everything from wanting I, I'm, I'm a little 975 00:39:00,570 --> 00:39:02,130 bit fuzzy on the details of what actually 976 00:39:02,130 --> 00:39:04,920 got passed and not so you may if you if you 977 00:39:04,920 --> 00:39:07,500 know then please let me please correct me. 978 00:39:07,500 --> 00:39:11,190 But like not allowing gender studies at 979 00:39:11,190 --> 00:39:13,680 universities, uh, you know, I know that the 980 00:39:13,680 --> 00:39:18,030 African American AP class, they did disallow 981 00:39:18,030 --> 00:39:21,120 that. And I think the AP company made some 982 00:39:21,120 --> 00:39:22,350 changes. I don't know if is it allowed 983 00:39:22,350 --> 00:39:24,150 again. But obviously all these things about 984 00:39:24,150 --> 00:39:26,190 not being able to talk about gender identity 985 00:39:26,190 --> 00:39:28,560 in schools, I mean, just a whole rash of 986 00:39:28,560 --> 00:39:31,470 things, which, you know, for me, as a 987 00:39:31,470 --> 00:39:33,810 University of Florida bachelor's degree 988 00:39:33,810 --> 00:39:37,590 holder, I feel like it cheapens the degree 989 00:39:37,590 --> 00:39:39,330 that I have here in Florida, even though I 990 00:39:39,330 --> 00:39:41,370 got this degree way back in the 1990s. 991 00:39:41,370 --> 00:39:43,500 But I'm like, really? Like that is not the 992 00:39:43,650 --> 00:39:45,330 the quality of education that I got. 993 00:39:45,330 --> 00:39:46,860 That is not the quality of education that I 994 00:39:46,860 --> 00:39:49,440 expect from our Florida university system. 995 00:39:49,440 --> 00:39:51,030 So, Laura, your thoughts. 996 00:39:52,080 --> 00:39:54,570 Dr. Laura McGuire: Are this could be a podcast, right? 997 00:39:54,570 --> 00:40:00,810 Right. Succinctly my thoughts I am eternally 998 00:40:00,810 --> 00:40:06,240 amazed that I was a teacher in Florida over 999 00:40:06,240 --> 00:40:11,160 a decade ago, and things are so much worse 1000 00:40:11,160 --> 00:40:15,600 now. And actually I will include a story on 1001 00:40:15,600 --> 00:40:17,220 here. And if anyone watches the video they 1002 00:40:17,220 --> 00:40:23,280 can see this. So I have this flag and it's a 1003 00:40:23,280 --> 00:40:25,320 pride flag, and it's from one of my students 1004 00:40:25,320 --> 00:40:28,860 when I taught, uh, high school in Florida. 1005 00:40:28,860 --> 00:40:32,460 And you can see the edges of it are torn up. 1006 00:40:32,460 --> 00:40:36,150 And that's because the student came in and 1007 00:40:36,150 --> 00:40:39,300 said, I want to give you this flag to have 1008 00:40:39,300 --> 00:40:42,180 in our classroom because this is a space 1009 00:40:42,180 --> 00:40:43,590 that is about inclusion. 1010 00:40:43,590 --> 00:40:44,760 I feel safe in. 1011 00:40:44,760 --> 00:40:46,410 And the student was an ally. 1012 00:40:46,410 --> 00:40:48,660 They weren't LGBTQ themselves, but. 1013 00:40:48,800 --> 00:40:52,820 They wanted this flag up in their room, and 1014 00:40:52,820 --> 00:40:56,330 every night their stepfather would get very 1015 00:40:56,330 --> 00:40:58,850 drunk and he would come in their room and he 1016 00:40:58,850 --> 00:41:00,140 would tear it down. 1017 00:41:00,380 --> 00:41:03,020 And they said, in your classroom, this flag 1018 00:41:03,020 --> 00:41:05,900 will be safe. And I have brought it with me 1019 00:41:05,900 --> 00:41:08,060 to every place that I have worked since 1020 00:41:08,060 --> 00:41:12,890 then. And it's in my office to this day to 1021 00:41:12,890 --> 00:41:18,800 know that in 2024, I couldn't do what I did 1022 00:41:18,800 --> 00:41:21,230 all those years ago for this student and 1023 00:41:21,230 --> 00:41:25,220 their peers is heartbreaking beyond 1024 00:41:25,220 --> 00:41:26,750 quantification, right? 1025 00:41:26,750 --> 00:41:29,000 There's no way to really express how 1026 00:41:29,000 --> 00:41:30,650 shocking that is. 1027 00:41:30,920 --> 00:41:33,740 Um, as someone who debated coming out at that 1028 00:41:33,740 --> 00:41:37,700 time and felt supported in doing so now 1029 00:41:37,700 --> 00:41:42,950 knowing that I would have lost my job, I the 1030 00:41:42,950 --> 00:41:45,230 way I try to spin it for myself is the 1031 00:41:45,230 --> 00:41:47,300 positive is it's job security. 1032 00:41:47,360 --> 00:41:49,760 It means that the world needs the work that 1033 00:41:49,760 --> 00:41:51,920 I do and you do, and so many people do. 1034 00:41:52,070 --> 00:41:55,790 Um, the need is not going to go away, but it 1035 00:41:55,790 --> 00:41:57,920 is also something I think we really have to 1036 00:41:57,920 --> 00:42:00,860 sit in the magnitude of and grieve because 1037 00:42:00,860 --> 00:42:02,120 it is hard. 1038 00:42:02,540 --> 00:42:04,970 But especially as a queer and non-binary 1039 00:42:04,970 --> 00:42:07,730 person, every time I think about leaving the 1040 00:42:07,730 --> 00:42:09,740 South. I'm from the mountains of Tennessee 1041 00:42:09,740 --> 00:42:12,230 and have lived in the South most of my life. 1042 00:42:12,650 --> 00:42:14,930 I always think, you know, there's going to 1043 00:42:14,930 --> 00:42:18,950 be the next queer kid born somewhere in 1044 00:42:18,950 --> 00:42:20,780 Appalachia or in Florida. 1045 00:42:20,780 --> 00:42:23,570 And if all of the adults who are supportive 1046 00:42:23,570 --> 00:42:27,440 and safe leave, then who is going to be 1047 00:42:27,440 --> 00:42:29,840 there for them? So I will probably always 1048 00:42:29,840 --> 00:42:32,180 remain in the South where I know I'm needed. 1049 00:42:32,870 --> 00:42:34,700 Carol Cox: Oh well, Laura, thank you so much for sharing 1050 00:42:34,700 --> 00:42:36,920 that really beautiful story, and it is 1051 00:42:36,920 --> 00:42:39,020 heartbreaking to see what is happening. 1052 00:42:39,020 --> 00:42:41,420 And I, I like to be an optimist. 1053 00:42:41,420 --> 00:42:43,760 I kind of I'm an optimist by nature and I 1054 00:42:43,760 --> 00:42:46,070 and I really feel like the pendulum will 1055 00:42:46,070 --> 00:42:49,190 swing back at least more towards the other 1056 00:42:49,190 --> 00:42:52,910 side, because it has swung way too far now 1057 00:42:52,910 --> 00:42:54,320 with what has been going on. 1058 00:42:54,320 --> 00:42:55,220 Dr. Laura McGuire: Exactly. 1059 00:42:55,220 --> 00:42:58,700 Carol Cox: Yes. Well, Laura, thank you so much for this 1060 00:42:58,700 --> 00:43:00,410 kind of enlightening conversation. 1061 00:43:00,410 --> 00:43:01,910 We covered so much. 1062 00:43:01,910 --> 00:43:03,800 I'm sure the listeners have learned a lot. 1063 00:43:03,830 --> 00:43:05,780 What is the best place for them to connect 1064 00:43:05,780 --> 00:43:06,350 with you? 1065 00:43:06,350 --> 00:43:08,180 Dr. Laura McGuire: Yeah, you can go to my website. 1066 00:43:08,180 --> 00:43:09,290 Doctor. Dr.. 1067 00:43:09,320 --> 00:43:11,300 Laura. Laura McGuire. 1068 00:43:11,300 --> 00:43:13,640 Macguire. Com. 1069 00:43:14,180 --> 00:43:15,950 Carol Cox: Fantastic. I will make sure to include a link 1070 00:43:15,950 --> 00:43:18,080 to Laura's website and her LinkedIn profile 1071 00:43:18,080 --> 00:43:19,760 in the show notes. You can also check out 1072 00:43:19,760 --> 00:43:23,510 the video where so that you can see us and 1073 00:43:23,510 --> 00:43:24,800 heard the flag that she showed. 1074 00:43:24,800 --> 00:43:26,180 And thank you so much for doing that. 1075 00:43:26,180 --> 00:43:28,220 Laura. It's a pleasure having you on the 1076 00:43:28,220 --> 00:43:29,270 Speaking Your Brand podcast. 1077 00:43:29,270 --> 00:43:30,890 Thank you so much for the very important 1078 00:43:30,890 --> 00:43:31,880 work that you're doing. 1079 00:43:31,880 --> 00:43:34,550 Dr. Laura McGuire: Thank you so much for teaching me how to be 1080 00:43:34,550 --> 00:43:37,250 in this space and make a wonderful living, 1081 00:43:37,250 --> 00:43:38,390 and the work that you do. 1082 00:43:38,420 --> 00:43:40,010 Carol Cox: Thanks again to Laura for coming on the 1083 00:43:40,010 --> 00:43:42,410 podcast and sharing her insights with us. 1084 00:43:42,410 --> 00:43:44,360 We're continuing our series all around 1085 00:43:44,360 --> 00:43:46,190 inspiring you to use your voice. 1086 00:43:46,190 --> 00:43:48,890 So until next time, thanks for listening.