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Welcome back to Count Me
In. I'm Adam Larson. Today,

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we welcome back Michael
Teape to the podcast.

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Michael is a well known management
coach and co-founder of Teape Training

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International.

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And he is here today to
discuss how businesses can
maximize their human capital,

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as we begin year three of COVID 19 era,

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and the Great Resignation
continues. If you are a leader,

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trying to get your team
back to business as usual,

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you do not wanna miss this insightful
conversation. So let's get started.

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Michael, we really appreciate
you coming on our podcast today.

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It's a pleasure to speak with you again,
to have you come back to count me in.

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Thank you. It's great to be here,
Adam. Thanks for having me back.

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Definitely. So let's just jump
right into our topic today.

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So in your work with
clients across businesses,

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how are people doing with the crisis
as what we are heading into, what,

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the third year of it?

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Yeah. Can you believe it three years?
No, that's just, yeah. Crazy. Well, it,

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every year it's changed. Right?

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Cause you can imagine that and
as your listeners reflect back,

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they're gonna think, well, yeah,
there was absolutely in the beginning,

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we didn't know what we didn't know. We
were washing our vegetables, you know,

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we weren't going to the store
and now we're way beyond that.

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We're managing that with seen
threat come into our work.

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People have got COVID people have
not gone to the hospital. Some have,

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unfortunately, so you've
experienced it over two years.

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And as we come into the third,
it's kind of normalized.

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It's baked in, it's like you
get used to your environment.

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So, you know, most people are like,
well, this is a reality, Adam,

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if I'm honest, that's what
they're saying. And they're,

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going back to doing well, you
know, may as well do the training.

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And from my point of view, you know,
as a learning development specialist,

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face to face stuff was canceled the
first year. And now in the third year,

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it is back on again, you know,
they wanna do face to face.

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Haven't done it in a while.

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I'm not so sure that the
employees want to do face to face.

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Cause they've got used to the virtual
environment and they've worked out that

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actually it can work. It does work.

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We've been able to talk over, you know,

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over a virtual, just as much in
fact, better than face to face,

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because face to face, most
people wearing a mask,

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depending on which state you
go to, depending on their
level of infection. Yeah.

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So, you know, that's
where we are right now.

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Also what I'm seeing Adam is people are

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moving jobs, you know, you've
heard of the Great Resignation.

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So that's the other thing is really
picking up speed now in the third year.

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The thing with that is that people are
seeing opportunity. There is opportunity.

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So they're realizing that, well,

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I can work from home so therefore I
can work pretty much from anywhere.

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Right? Yeah. So it doesn't, they're
not as limited as they were before.

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So that's how people,

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I feel people are expanding their
horizons on the work they can do

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and getting so much more
comfortable with doing at home.

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So we've entered this era of
flexibility. Unfortunately,

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last thing I'll say. And if, and those
of you listeners who are leading others,

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I would say, this is that
they're not being flexible.

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All right. So leaders have got
to continue to be flexible.

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Even with the picture, the
move back to the office.

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We want all of you back in the office,
right? We want you all to come back and,

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you know what,

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we're losing some of that flexibility
we've had for the last two years in this

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third year.

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And I feel that if leaders learn
to continue the flexibility,

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they can continue to take advantage of
a more flexible workforce and make them

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want to stay, want to work
if you put in what I call,

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yeah. Of fake rules, unnecessary rules.

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Unnecessary. And I'll give you an example.

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There's a company that I
know that remain nameless.

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They're like, right! We're
all coming back to work.

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They've all been hundred percent
remote, fairly small company. And right.

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We want all back at work, but we want
you in Monday, Thursday and Friday,

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you can, you know, we'll be
virtual Tuesday and Wednesday.

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You're getting these unnecessary
rules and you must have your meetings.

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We want them face to face. So you need
to have your meetings on the Monday,

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Thursday or the Friday. So you can imagine
employees are like, hang on a minute.

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What if I wanna have a meeting on Tuesday,

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it creates all these unnecessary
rules and decisions to be made when

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wouldn't,

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it have been easier just to say to the
each team work out what days you wanna

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come in the office. We want to build up
to a hundred percent back, but you know,

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happy to do 60, 40,

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whatever works as long as we're serving
the client internally and externally,

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you know, I leave it up to your best
judgment to make sure the work continues.

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Great, right? And then they can work
on it. What works best for them?

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I'm seeing this over and over again.

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So how are people doing the crisis?
I think they're doing quite well.

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They they're normalized it.
They're getting on with it.

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They're looking for
opportunities, other jobs.

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What we've gotta is being
overly formal with how leaders

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bring their people back and teams
back. We need to stay flexible.

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Yeah. So I can't imagine staying flexible
would allow you to keep your workforce

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better because if you become
more rigid, it says, well,

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if you're gonna be rigid,
then I can just move on.

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Are there other tips that we can offer?
Like for, you know, if you're thinking,

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okay, I lead a team,

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how can I adapt my team so that I
can continue like being flexible,

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but what are other things that I can
do to help keep my team together,

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but still be productive?

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The productivity is a funny thing. Yeah.

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So that's the first thing I'm
gonna talk about here. Is it relax?

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Have they been productive for
the last two years? Look at that.

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Has the performance been
where you wanted it? If it is,

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you don't have a productivity
problem. Yeah. If it isn't,

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then let's get into more communication
with the team about your expectations.

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So focus.

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I think leading through this time now
back to where people feel that COVID,

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isn't a day to day occurrence,

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or there's not another wave or they
don't know tons of people that have it,

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getting people back, they really need
to focus on what they want to achieve.

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And the way you do that with teams
is you communicate with them.

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You ask them how it's going. You set
expectations of what you're looking for.

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And then you coach them. You're really,
really good at communication on, well,

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how are you prioritizing?

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How can I help you prioritize what
you need to be doing in this time?

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What are some of the roadblocks getting
in your way is for that leader to switch

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from, "I've told you my expectations"
into a coaching style and

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that's how they help
their teams through it.

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Because the coaching style does two
things. It helps when you coach someone,

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it helps them put them in
an adaptive, calm mindset.

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They are reflecting on the question
you've asked, they're not in the, oh,

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make panic of getting the work
done. If they're under stress,

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they're not think of anything
else they're connecting with you.

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And you're giving them that reflective
time to calm and think about their

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position, which therefore
leads to more productivity,

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better prioritization. So yeah.
So they're the two things.

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And the last thing is
don't give up, you know,

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always come back to an employee. If
you've had a feedback conversation,

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you had a coaching conversation,
come back, come back and ask them,

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how did that go mention,
well, you mentioned you were
gonna try this this week.

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You were gonna try and be less
reactive to email. How did that go?

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So you end up coaching your people
rather than saying, look, this is,

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this is what you need to do. You're not,

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you're not getting all these
accounts done. We're 10% down.

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I need you to put another
hour in the day. You know?

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So we are moving from
autocratic style of leadership,

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which helps the leader feel in
control to much more democratic style.

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And with that comes
flexibility. But you know,

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I see a lot of leaders
jumping like, oh, you know,

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I've gotta keep productivity
up. And then I ask them, well,

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what's your productivity like? And
they're like, good question. I don't know.

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I've not thought about it. I just
assumed because everyone went virtual.

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I need to watch this space.
So it's unnecessary. Right?

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So I hope that answers a
question, Adam, and, you know,

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and helps management
accountants listening to this.

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How do I manage my team without
overdoing it? Don't overcook it.

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Yeah.

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You don't wanna overcook it cuz you don't
wanna put force on them to come into

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an office where remembering that it's
gonna tire somebody out more because

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they're seeing people in person
which means you're gonna have other

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conversations outside the
normal conversations you'd have.

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You're actually gonna be probably a little
less productive going into the office

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cuz you're gonna see people
you haven't seen in two years.

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So you're dealing with all those things.

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And so if you push everybody
to be into the office,

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especially like on a Monday and a Friday
who wants to be in office on a Monday

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and a Friday? Make 'em all come in
the middle of the week. Cause I mean,

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no one ever wants to be in the office at
the beginning and the end of the week,

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you know, you gotta find,
you gotta be flexible,

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but you have to take into account because
the wellbeing of your team is super

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important because, you gotta
remember, they've had two,

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almost three years of working
from home working, you know,

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working out schedules with kids and taking
people everywhere that you have your

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schedule set and all of a sudden's like
we're going back to work and you're

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disrupting people's lives. And
so as they adapt, you know,

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you have to kind of, you have to
adapt your style of leadership,

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but I think it's disrupting people cuz
they're either in the office or not in

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the office and they don't
know how to hybrid it.

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Yeah. Yeah.

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Making the most outta the
office experience is something
we should be coaching

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again, that word coaching, right. We
should be leaders should be saying, so,

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you know, you're coming
back to work in the office.

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What do you think is
gonna be the most useful

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use of your time in the office and you
know what it's meeting people face to

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face. It's not going through spreadsheets.
If you want the quiet time, you know,

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do that a bit later on. But the funny
thing is you mentioned, you know,

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I'm going back to this Monday, Friday
thing, yes, you are a hundred percent,

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right. Adam, it's known, look,

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let me get into the week and
I'll turn up Tuesday, Wednesday.

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So that the example I gave of the client
that got it around the wrong way. And,

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and when I spoke to some of the employees,
they were suspicious as to, well,

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do they not trust us to work on a Monday?

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Do they think we're gonna take a three
day weekend or a four day weekend?

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And my answer to that is, well, if you
are being measured, which you know,

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when you talk about
accounting, there's a very,

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very obvious result of your
work, your productivity,

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you get the accounts done, you know,

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certain spreadsheets done things ticked
in the box, regulatory deadlines.

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If you don't hit those, it's very
obvious you're gonna miss them.

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So giving someone a Monday as their
work from home makes no difference,

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cause they'll either need to get
it done on Monday or they won't,

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they were gonna do it anyway.
At least it's like really?

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And so now you've got a workforce
questioning why? So it's really, you know,

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controlling what's important and
letting go of everything else.

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And you know, in this world
of accountancy there's so

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it's so specific.

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It's very easy to let someone go
flexible and then just measure the

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results as they come in, have a
discussion, ask them about, look,

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this is actually,

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I need you to do my expectation is for
you to do twice as many accounts in three

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days, you know, how are
we gonna achieve that?

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But it's still a coaching technique.

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And that's how people wanna be talked
to right now. They wanna be included.

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And you mentioned wellness, wellbeing.

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So we shouldn't just leaders should
not just be talking about the work

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productivity they should be talking
about. Are they varying, you know,

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are they burning out? Are
your people burning out?

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Do they have the right
level of social interaction?

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Or are they just sitting here 24, 7,

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I'm coaching someone right now who's
incredibly bright off the scale.

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Fantastically, is gonna
be hugely successful.

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But that person who's struggling with
clocking on at six 30 in the morning and

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working through just
seven o'clock at night,

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barely taking lunch because they
feel that's the expectation.

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Couldn't that be sorted out by a leader,

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having a real discussion
about what are you, you know,

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what are you doing throughout your day?

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Understanding the cycles of work when
you should take breaks and a leader

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saying, it's okay to
take a break. You know,

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do you really need to log on that
early in the morning? I don't think so.

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So yeah, it's not about, it's funny. We,

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but people try and manage time
leaders try and manage time.

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They should be more managing
the conversations we have
and up the purpose and

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the why we are doing it. And
yeah, release that time element.

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I'm so surprised that people
are still so caught up on, well,

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I need this person at the desk.

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If you're acquiring somebody to be
there more than eight hours a day,

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the eight hours are not
productive. And that's,

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you know,

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that's what I find is really holding
people back from the wellbeing.

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And I don't think people are taking care
of their wellbeing, Adam, to be honest,

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not properly.

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Well, and we've talked a lot about
leaders looking at their teams,

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but what about the leaders? They're
not looking at their wellbeing either.

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And so as a leader, you have to
look at yourself and say, okay,

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am I well enough to be leading
my team, coaching my team?

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And am I using my time
properly? And you know,

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we have to apply the things that we're
trying to coach our team members on in

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ourself, right?

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Yeah. I mean,

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there's things we need to do around our
work to help our wellbeing now. CPAs

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and other accounting professions
have a crunch deadline, right? April,

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the end of the year. So
they're used to this,

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cramming the work in around
those months and then

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hopefully taking a bit of breather
afterwards. So they might be,

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they might be thinking about, well,

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actually just maintain this amount
of concentration, right now,

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right. We're coming up to
deadline time right now.

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We need to make sure that we are
going out and having rituals routines

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we're going for walks, reading
other material, taking a break,

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small breaks on a regular basis. Yeah.

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And then fueling the body
with the right energy,

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which is the food that we eat. Thinking
about that short term, food, coffee,

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soda, all those great things to
give you that punch that you need.

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Say if you're not feeling
great, but you know,

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you've got the next three
hours to get through,

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are not gonna help you long term.

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You need to be looking at foods that
released energy over a longer period of

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time. And really Michael,
you're talking about food? Well,

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I am because if you wanna sustain months,

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which I know they do anyway. But during
this time months of productivity,

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you have to be in it for the long
term and good routines around,

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movement

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that we are moving where
you actually look as well.

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I dunno if anyone's talked about this,

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but if you think about when we are
looking at the screen, as I am right now,

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I'm looking at my computer screen. When
I'm talking to you, it's a short term,

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it's a short vision. I'm looking
at the short range depth,

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and I'm looking at an
electronic screen, okay.

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That tires you out. Your optics,

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your eyes, all of that great stuff. Tired.

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You need to look away from the screen
and look at a view, a long depth.

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And what I do is I often say, if you
haven't got time to take a break,

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at least stop, instead of checking
your phone or your Facebook or your,

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whatever your social media is, I'm
showing my age. Cause I'm saying Facebook,

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and look out the window,
hopefully you've got a window.

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You need to find one and name what
you see, oh, bright sunshine. Oh,

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the weather's cleared up. The trees
are coming into bloom. You know,

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you are naming what you're seeing
the future. Cause it gives you more,

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a wider lens of your brain
and it calms your brain down.

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If you are only looking at the computer
screen, spreadsheets, emails, popups,

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and that,

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it will drain your energy and
definitely your critical thinking and

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decision making. For sure. So yeah.
They gave you a lot there to unpack.

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You, you have, I've read somewhere
where it says like you have to do that,

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like at least once every hour where
you do that like a couple minutes,

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and then that alone helps
reduce the strain on your eyes,

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the strain in your brain, just,

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just doing that alone throughout the
day will improve your wellbeing as

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if you're working on a computer all
day which can do wonders for everybody.

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Even just hand exercises, you know,

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making sure your hands
are stretched properly.

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If you're sitting there typing all
day, just simple things as that,

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that we have to do because,
and for some people,

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when they started working from home,

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they started working more
hours because they were home.

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They could just sit down and
go like from six 30 to seven,

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but it it's trying to making sure
your team is finding that balance.

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And even you as a leader,
finding that balance.

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Yeah. Most importantly, for
you as a leader to do it first,

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because you are the one that
everyone relies on, you know,

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you're the person having the
conversations, they need you on your game.

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And plus the techniques you
learn, you can then impart,

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share to your team what works and what
doesn't work. Everything I talk about,

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I'm doing myself now. Some days I'm
doing it badly, you know, I'm no Saint,

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but other days I'm like, oh, okay,

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well I use this and I then can
introduce it to my teams, my clients,

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and help move them forward.
Productively. Like I said,

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as long as they're focused, what
do I want to achieve is a focus,

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the approach is a flexible
communication style.

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I suggest that coaching style,

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cause you're asking questions about
the other person rather than telling.

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And then lastly,

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consistency that they consistently
meeting with their people.

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They know that the catch ups coming,
they know what it feels like, you know,

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know it's gonna be supportive.

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And then of course their own rituals
in the day to make sure that they are,

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you know, they're managing their
energy well, you know that they're

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clear on what they're
trying to achieve today.

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They're not over putting too much into a
day just because I don't have a commute

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anymore. You know,

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you still need some kind of
downtime between switching
from being in your office

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or your converted closet, whatever
you've using as an office,

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switching off the light, walking out
the door into whatever awaits you,

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your family life, your
personal life, walking the dog,

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those kind of things.

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This has been Count Me In,

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00:19:47,530 --> 00:19:51,500
IMA's podcast providing you
with the latest perspectives
of thought leaders from

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00:19:51,501 --> 00:19:54,180
the accounting and finance profession.
If you like what you heard,

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00:19:54,280 --> 00:19:57,220
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329
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