You're listening to African Men Speak. Five questions, real voices, honest perspectives. In this series, we listen to African men and women at home and in the diaspora sharing how they understand masculinity and how tradition and change are shaping their lives today. What does masculinity mean to you today?

Masculinity. There is so much for me it's a transformation I would say. I look at it more from a place of being less rigid in terms of how people think and do things because the previous masculinity was more of the rigid roles and responsibilities that people held, emotions, things like that but for me I feel like right now it's about the flexibility in understanding one yourself. I would say it comes from a place of emotional intelligence that is very key. And not many people really have emotional intelligence or can actually handle emotional intelligence.

Most times it's about we react before we actually do or say anything because people based on those reactions they are not able to know within which space to actually manage their emotions. And that's a key thing, being able to manage your emotions, having that emotional intelligence is very key. So for me, masculinity is about somebody being able to accept that at some point you can be vulnerable. And it's okay. Where we come from, especially being African, most times there's a notion that men can't be vulnerable, but it's okay for a man to be vulnerable.

And that's where we have aspects like emotional support and intelligence come in, where people are able to seek health issues. I remember I'm just thinking about a colleague we had recently that was actually going through mental health issues, but just because he was a man, he was not able to manage that. So for me it's about the emotional intelligence and being able to seek mental help and mental support where you need to because society deems us not to but it's okay. Being self aware and authentic. Place that we live in most sense we're not very authentic.

People are not very self aware because there's a fear because our culture dictates us to have that fear naturally so when you're not self aware and authentic you it's hard to be that yeah because our culture deems us to do that it's more like as a female told not to look at a man in the eyes, but when you look at them in the eyes now, they're like, I think she's disrespectful. But being a masculine person, it's also okay to be able to be self aware, be authentic. Especially when we talk about this, I keep talking about this issue of people saying gender mainstreaming, I feel like the male were forgotten in this process. For as long as they're inclusive and included in these processes, then we are going to have to deal with a very difficult generation moving forward. So that inclusion is very important.

Having compassion is also very key. When it comes to how you handle yourself, because most times they're like, a man shouldn't have emotions, you shouldn't have compassion, you can't show emotions. But they're only human. So that inclusion of men having also that other side, which they call the vulnerable side, I think it's okay. For me that's what masculinity is about.

And then maybe last, I would say it's about the roles that we share. Most times people assume because the woman's place is the kitchen, men can't enter the kitchen. They look at you like a vegetable, but that's not masculinity. Masculinity is about sharing roles, it's about recognizing that the other person or your partner whoever it is also does get tired. So it's okay to share roles, it's not about staying within your stringent ways of doing things, it's about exploring, it's about moving with the times because times have shifted.

I mean you gave a good example of just what you said moving almost three years down the road and there's a lot of emotions that go into it. Now you begin to recognize it's okay to do shared roles, it's okay for you to feed the kids, it's okay for you to be a stay home dad. But the African Menagerie is like no, I can't be home', you know, so it's a struggle, it's a fight. So for me that's how I would sum up masculinity. And maybe just one thing culture.

Do know culture has a way in which it influences our thoughts, our ideas, our emotions, and it can have its positives but also has its negatives. So for me right now, my community is about accepting the cultural shifts that we're experiencing right now and recognizing that we can't still stick to our previous norms and cultures, especially like us who have ended up married from another country. It may not necessarily be a race but also another country, it's about embodying those new cultural norms, it's about embodying the way of doing things and also accepting and seeing how do these two cultures converge but not necessarily clash. Because there will always be a clash but we are different meeting point. So culture does have a very strong ingraining but we just have to find that balance and being able to understand what is workable and what's not workable and finding that space to actually live even with a different cultural, you know, it's an understanding that your culture cannot be the superior one.

There have to be changes, whether it's a global perspective, whether it's an individual perspective, family perspective, it goes a long way.

Can you share a specific moment or experience that shaped your understanding of masculinity?

I think for me the experience has been one being a female in humanitarian space. It has changed my perspective in the sense that I realize I'm in a very male dominated society and being in a very male dominated society in terms of the workspace, in terms of the humanitarian space, there are not many women so we don't have much room to wiggle. The experience is recognizing that I can't be me always. There's a point where I have to remove off that hat of being soft but rather change my perspective and become more masculine than feminine actually. So that experience in itself has helped me to shape my perspectives on things.

It has helped me to look at things differently. It has helped me to now also understand our culture has an ingraining, but you can't carry your culture from Africa to Bangladesh, for example. You have to learn how to understand to stay in that space, survive in that space, but also at the same time respecting, but still being firm on certain things. I will give a specific example. When I worked in South Sudan a couple of years ago, I worked for USAID project and we had a colleague who was on the other side.

And my background and Catholic ingrainings always told me no, those are people we just don't associate with. But for me, it didn't mean he was less masculine or anything, but it also changed my perspective about looking at things from his perspective and his side. That experience over time has shaped me to one) to accept people the way they are two) is to understand our cultures are different, but we can still thrive and still be ourselves, can still be authentic, we can still do things Three is to understand that our roles will shift depending on the circumstances and situation, so that's where masculinity comes in very, very strongly. It's okay to be emotional in certain spaces and it's okay to also have male colleagues being emotional. They can be compassionate, can be emotional because they are also struggling to accept the fact that it's no longer a male dominated space, it is also female dominated and female can also be masculine in our own ways.

We can adopt it, we can become masculine, same as male can become feminine. So it really varies. Those are just thoughts about my experience.

How do you see the relationship between traditional and contemporary views of masculinity in your community?

Culture has a way in which it kind of dictates or really determines a lot of what we do. Now the traditional way of doing things in terms of masculinity in Africa is more like authority. I have to exude my authority to sham a man. I have to be strong. I have to be a provider.

I have to have control over the household. Culture is very key. Rituals, when it comes to clan leadership, for example, like my family, my dad is a clan leader. There are things that we can and cannot do because of that affiliation. So that traditional way of doing things still sticks.

There's an issue of strength, there's an issue of authority has to be exuded, which is the traditional way of doing things, but also there's misconceptionalization in terms of authority and what Podemas authority and Podemas control. From the traditional perspective, authorities like fear, you understand, you can't speak out your mind, you have to keep quiet. So most of it, even if it is, even if it's about respect, respect comes to fear and that's a challenge because we are living in the contemporary world today where everyone's views need to be respected. You can still respectfully object. The tradition always says do not object', you just say 'yes, yes, yes, yes, yes'.

And the moment you object, you become the bad person in the room. And that is wrong, because even if you are with a younger or older male or female, whatever it is, you still have your own perspective and idea of things. And that's what the contemporary does. So for me, I look at that as a positive in terms of the contemporary, and we need to shy away from the traditional way of doing things. The other thing I would say is basically around physical dominance.

Women can equally be strong. Masculine is not about you being physically dominant, it's about sexual prowess, it's about control. It doesn't work that more. It doesn't work anymore in that way. So we need to look at masculinity from the current way as still being able to hold things together, being able to respectfully say what you have to say, being able to communicate.

You can't be a yes, yes, sir every time. It's okay to say nay, but unfortunately that also ties to where the society deems you. We live for the society in a traditional way. I'll give an example, people don't like talking about divorce, but I've seen people who divorced. And it's not that they've chosen to divorce because they wanted it, because they went to the ablition because they wanted it, no.

It is because things got to a point they couldn't manage it. But when it comes to masculinity people, assume if you divorce you're not man enough. You can't control your wife. Control by word now says it's okay to do it and it's okay to even put your head high up. So it's quite interesting how we really view it.

So even this whole thing when I was talking about compassion, emotional prowess and openness, stress, etc, No pushing back. Now we can't do that anymore. We have to listen, even to the children. Kids have their voice now. It's not like back in the day when you would like just wake up and do stuff and be like, No, I'll dictate to my kids now.

They'll be like, This is my opinion. Whether you take it or not, they will speak back to you. So it's okay to push back and that's a bit of the contemporary versus the traditional.

Based on your understanding of masculinity, what experiences, resources or support do you think would most enrich the journey of African men today?

Like I mentioned, masculinity shapes a lot of things. I would say one of the key things would be about, you see how we talk about safe spaces? You'll always hear children friendly spaces, women friendly spaces, what about the men friendly spaces? It's probably going to be in a bar where he would just like and if he will do that he will probably say one or two things but not necessarily the depth of it because that's how they've been brought up not to speak, struggle internally. If we can only have men friendly spaces where they're able to speak out.

But also for me, it's from the recognition that this should start from the younger generation. We should be able to teach them that you can't even it's okay to be a man but it's also okay to cry. It's also okay to speak out. Speak freely. Especially if you have the male child, It's not always about focusing on you as a boy you can't cry, you can't speak out, you can't relay your emotions.

So if we have male friendly spaces where we're able to engage, speak out, I believe that helps to transform the media. It can bring the negative, it can bring out the positives, but how we choose to use it to our advantage because it really breaks people. Even the storylines in the media literally give you lines like oh he's a man and he broke down he was emotional that already it's there's that I'm trying to get the right word that people use it's in the it's in the mind already yeah it's like kept somewhere in the mind but it's from the perspective of a man can't be emotional you know so the media changes things so it's about either the public defining the media redefining you know, with relatable content. Like if you keep on playing the same thing over and over, then it brings things in a different perspective. Culture, faith, even the Bible.

People misinterpret the Bible. People pick specific verses in the Bible to present their case. It's like tithing. People will be like, you have to tithe 10%, da da da, and it's okay, that's fine. But most of them are preaching about tithing.

They will pick specific scriptures that talk about giving, giving, but never really talk about the context and background within which that was happening. It's the same thing as masculinity. People always be like a man has to be strong, a man has to be a provider, but people don't understand within what context this may or may not happen because our faith and our culture puts us in that space. Mental health people don't talk about mental health. I have come to recognize mental health is literally glaring at us and especially our African society, you don't talk mental health.

It's not what our society does. One of my experiences has been that we need to shift from that way of thinking and begin to recognize these are the realities we are facing. So you find people who just either pull I mean, I have a friend that killed himself, he actually just went and he committed suicide in his own house. He was in a humanitarian space, lost his job. I think he's now been, he's been led for about four or five years now.

And I worked with him, he was our then left the same, we all left the same agency, joined another agency, and then he was jobless for a couple of months but because the society deemed that he was supposed to be a provider etc, woke up one morning, saw the wife and the kids off and then just entered the bathroom and committed suicide and that's sad because the culture because mentally he knew I have to be able to provide, I'm not a man, I'm not man enough to provide. And it got to that point because he kept shrinking. We'd look at him and ask him, Where are you? Where are you? I was like, I'm around, but he'd never come out and speak openly.

And slowly he just went down the drain until he said take his life. So mental health, trauma support, very important because it helps us to address some of those emotional patriarchal expectations, the violence that comes, it tells us to address that. Masculinity, it's okay to also be mentally, to also have mental health issues, but masculinity doesn't fit in that way. Masculinity in the traditional African society was like, no, a man can't speak up, a man can't tell his woman his problems and that's wrong. Then I also think that in my experience, fatherhood and caregiving programs helps to reframe masculinity in so, so many ways because it's about nurturing, it's about responsibility.

Like I mean, just before we got on the call, you you were saying you were helping the kids. Now that, under normal circumstances, people will like, it's not man enough. And that's wrong because it's a shared responsibility. It's a caregiving role. And trust me, those kids are going to grow up and be like, we've had a present father.

And that's the most important thing. Most times when provide, I give the money to my family, that's done. It's not about that. That emotional investment, that physical investment, it goes a long way. And trust me, it will take me a couple of years down road, but yeah, those kids are very happy where they are.

So that's some of my few experiences, what I think can be done to support masculinity.

What message about masculinity would you want to share with young African men today?

There is so much to say. One is you need to be yourself. While society may be able to shape you because culture shapes us, religion shapes us, while all those things shape us, you can't compare yourself to every other person. Just because maybe we've had these experiences growing up, Ralph had different experiences growing up. You can still be you, you can't compare yourself to other people and for as long as you accept who you are, it takes you a long way.

So for me one is acceptance because most times we fail to act, it's the lack of acceptance and self worth that makes us lose a lot in the processes. So if we can accept ourselves, that's fine. You have to also redefine what you determine as strength. What is strength to you? Is strength being a dictator?

Is strength being silent about issues that are affecting you directly? Or is strength being able to speak out? Being able to even call and cry for help and speak. Tell people, need help. It's okay to ask for help.

Most times people don't view it in that people are like, No, I can't ask. They are too shy. Or because they're like, I'm a man, I can't ask. But that's not what no asklinti is all about. African men need to stand up to the occasion, rise up to the occasion and the occasion is picking up, asking for help if you need help.

Don't suffer in silence. It's okay to be a partner to somebody and still look at them as equal. Even if we have, I mean we can never be equal, but equal in the sense that you can do half half, you can be equal in certain spaces, you don't have to be, it doesn't have to be, I'm the man, I lead this. That's why even the Bible says that God gave man a helper, which is woman. A helper didn't mean that you suppress a person.

A helper simply means that they are able to rise up to the occasion where need be. They're able to give you counsel, they're able to be your companion, able to be your friend. So it's okay for you to say I've tried this out and I'm stuck, I failed. I need to change things and that is what is important. And the last one for me and I'll keep emphasizing is that we need to remember that we are enough.

Most times we think we're not enough or we're not good enough. And I've specifically seen this especially within our work circles, within our family circles, within our community circles, there's always like, that one is just that there. We need to first recognize it starts with us, how we feel, how we project, actually how we feel and project the things that we feel about, how we act comes from how we feel about ourselves. Like I must say, me one of the things I liked about you was that you were so confident, were bold, they said no. Yeah?

But most people looked at us as arrogance. But for you, you knew you were enough. You knew your space, you knew what you were worth, you knew what could work for you and that is one thing that I need African men to be able to do. You need to be enough. Enough doesn't mean that you're going to go and dictate and step over everyone else.

It's about speaking your mind, it's about saying what you need and that is how you shape the future. That's how you become different and set yourself apart. Just be enough and know that you are enough and that you're good enough. That's what I would say.