WEBVTT
Kind: captions
Language: en-GB

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I'm Travis Bader
and this is The

00:00:10.490 --> 00:00:11.660
Silvercore Podcast.

00:00:13.280 --> 00:00:15.140
Join me as I discuss
matters related to

00:00:15.140 --> 00:00:17.180
hunting, fishing,
and outdoor pursuits

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with the people in
businesses that comprise

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of the community.

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If you're new to
Silvercore, be sure to

00:00:22.760 --> 00:00:26.960
check out our website,
www.Silvercore.ca where

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you can learn more
about courses, services,

00:00:29.060 --> 00:00:30.350
and products we offer.

00:00:30.710 --> 00:00:32.720
As well as how you can
join The Silvercore Club,

00:00:32.960 --> 00:00:35.120
which includes 10 million
in North America wide

00:00:35.120 --> 00:00:37.760
liability insurance to
ensure you are properly

00:00:37.760 --> 00:00:39.680
covered during your
outdoor adventures.

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Fishing, spey
fishing, tips, tricks,

00:00:46.180 --> 00:00:47.140
etiquette, and gear.

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Buckle up cause that's
this week's podcast.

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Tonight with Brian
Niska at the Skeena Spey

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Riverside Wilderness
Lodge in Terrace, BC.

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Brian is a fishing
guide, certified

00:01:00.570 --> 00:01:02.940
fishing instructor
and designated master

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castor and designer
of the Metal Detector

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series of Pieroway Rod.

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I've had the pleasure
of spending the last few

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days, fishing the Skeena
River with Brian and his

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guides here in Terrace,
and I'm excited to be

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sitting down to record
a podcast with you now.

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Brian, thank you very
much for taIking the

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time to do this podcast.

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Right on Travis,
thanks very much for

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coming up to visit us.

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So in the short period
of time that I've gotten

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to know you, I can
tell you are extremely

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passionate about fishing.

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Yeah.

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You know, it's something
that's always captivated

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me ever since I was a
kid, I remember being

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quite young, probably
three, four years old,

00:01:36.800 --> 00:01:39.590
if that, and just,
you know, sneaking

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into my grandfather
and my father's tackle

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boxes and checking
out all the lures.

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So, so I think
that's probably

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where it started.

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Really, that soon?

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Yeah.

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Just maybe it was the
bright colors or some

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of those salmon plugs
were pretty neat, I

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still remember them, so.

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Yeah.

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Yeah and then fly
fishing got into that

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when I was about 12,
my parents bought me

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in inexpensive fly
setup and away I went.

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So where were you fly
fishing at 12 years old.

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Well the first fish
I ever caught on the

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fly was in a slough
it's called the

00:02:07.970 --> 00:02:08.580
DeBoville Slough.

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It's in, Northeast Port
Coquitlam alongside

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the Pitt River there.

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Okay.

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And it was a Christmas
present, so it was out,

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you know, literally
Christmas morning with

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a little silver fly
and caught a cutthroat.

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That was the first fish
I ever caught on the fly.

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Wow.

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Oh, that's not too bad.

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Yeah.

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So tell me about
this Master Castor.

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That's, not exactly
an easy thing for a

00:02:30.255 --> 00:02:31.155
person to get is it

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Well that that's part
of the FFF Fly Casting

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Instructor Certification.

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There's three levels,
there's a basic,

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the master's in the
spey instructor.

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Okay.

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So the master's would be
the second level of the

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single hand instruction.

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And currently there's
just the one level

00:02:47.584 --> 00:02:48.304
of spey casting.

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You just fish so much
that you decided, I

00:02:52.024 --> 00:02:54.214
know what I want to
do, I want to open

00:02:54.214 --> 00:02:55.114
up my own business.

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You started in
Whistler didn't you?

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Yeah.

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You know, previous
to that, I was a

00:02:59.655 --> 00:03:00.495
ski instructor.

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I grew up working
at Grouse Mountain.

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My aunt worked there and
so I was lucky enough to

00:03:04.725 --> 00:03:07.515
get jobs at a young age,
started out selling ice

00:03:07.515 --> 00:03:10.065
cream, did a variety of
jobs there, but teaching

00:03:10.065 --> 00:03:10.995
skiing was one of them.

00:03:11.645 --> 00:03:14.995
And so teaching fly
fishing was just same,

00:03:15.390 --> 00:03:18.489
like an obvious extension
of that, you know.

00:03:18.489 --> 00:03:20.550
The casting instructor
certification was

00:03:20.550 --> 00:03:22.440
something that was
available locally

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through a gentleman
named Pete Caverhill

00:03:24.060 --> 00:03:25.080
and Pete Morrison.

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These were both
master instructors.

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So with the FFF, the
basic exams, are handled

00:03:31.320 --> 00:03:32.760
by, by two masters.

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Okay.

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To be honest with you,
I failed the first

00:03:35.010 --> 00:03:36.780
time because I was
like, I can cast a long

00:03:36.780 --> 00:03:38.850
way, I'll pass this,
it's a piece of cake.

00:03:38.940 --> 00:03:40.739
But it's really, like
a lot of instructors

00:03:40.739 --> 00:03:43.859
exams, it's more about
being able to demonstrate

00:03:43.859 --> 00:03:46.350
correctly, being able
to identify and explain

00:03:46.350 --> 00:03:50.609
casting faults and, you
know, basically being

00:03:50.609 --> 00:03:52.620
able to show beginners
proper technique.

00:03:52.970 --> 00:03:54.799
Well, how old were you
in when you did that?

00:03:55.570 --> 00:03:56.180
Great question.

00:03:56.299 --> 00:03:57.560
Let's see, that
would have been

00:03:57.560 --> 00:03:59.299
probably about 18.

00:04:00.120 --> 00:04:00.840
18 years old?

00:04:00.870 --> 00:04:00.960
Yeah.

00:04:00.960 --> 00:04:02.670
Maybe 18, 19 something.

00:04:03.170 --> 00:04:05.840
Is that common for an
18, 19 year old person

00:04:05.840 --> 00:04:07.830
to be a designated
master castor?

00:04:08.000 --> 00:04:09.080
Well, that was
a master's, that

00:04:09.080 --> 00:04:09.570
was the basic.

00:04:09.570 --> 00:04:09.690
Oh okay.

00:04:09.710 --> 00:04:10.250
So I got that.

00:04:10.250 --> 00:04:10.520
Okay.

00:04:10.550 --> 00:04:13.490
So the story is, I got
the basic and I got

00:04:13.490 --> 00:04:16.310
it prior to going to
Chile to guide down

00:04:16.310 --> 00:04:18.860
there because I felt
that, you know, this was

00:04:18.860 --> 00:04:20.149
going to be something
to be useful down there.

00:04:20.269 --> 00:04:22.190
And when I came back
from Chile, then I

00:04:22.250 --> 00:04:23.330
did the masters test.

00:04:24.110 --> 00:04:28.350
Which was, I believe
it, I want to say the

00:04:28.350 --> 00:04:31.140
kingdome it's the,
it was the stadium in

00:04:31.140 --> 00:04:33.355
Washington that they,
ended up, I think it.

00:04:33.515 --> 00:04:34.255
Yeah it's the kingdome.

00:04:34.255 --> 00:04:35.015
It was the kingdome?

00:04:35.045 --> 00:04:35.315
Yeah.

00:04:35.315 --> 00:04:35.795
Yeah, okay.

00:04:36.165 --> 00:04:36.585
Perfect.

00:04:36.935 --> 00:04:38.495
Here's what I remember
about it, I'm not a

00:04:38.495 --> 00:04:39.395
drinker, this is true.

00:04:39.555 --> 00:04:39.615
Yeah.

00:04:39.615 --> 00:04:41.075
I'm not a boozer at all.

00:04:41.645 --> 00:04:45.035
When I was in Chile,
I met the owner of

00:04:45.035 --> 00:04:46.715
a company called
Hexagraph Fly Rods.

00:04:46.845 --> 00:04:47.005
Okay.

00:04:47.275 --> 00:04:49.235
Now Hexagraph was
kind of a neat thing.

00:04:49.235 --> 00:04:52.775
So bamboo is a
material that a lot

00:04:52.775 --> 00:04:53.645
of people know about.

00:04:53.645 --> 00:04:53.865
Sure.

00:04:54.045 --> 00:04:55.745
And bamboo has an
exceptional feel for

00:04:55.745 --> 00:04:59.075
casting and bamboo
has power fibers on

00:04:59.075 --> 00:05:00.665
the outside and a
bit of a pithy core.

00:05:01.120 --> 00:05:03.409
And there's a material
called hexagraph,

00:05:03.430 --> 00:05:04.540
which was from
Bruce and Walker.

00:05:04.540 --> 00:05:05.700
They're making these
big, heavy spey

00:05:05.700 --> 00:05:06.370
roads out of it.

00:05:06.400 --> 00:05:06.700
Okay.

00:05:07.100 --> 00:05:12.030
And Walt Powell used his
taper, taper bars with

00:05:12.030 --> 00:05:15.150
the hexagraph material
and sold that company

00:05:15.150 --> 00:05:17.010
to a gentleman named
Harry Briscoe and Harry

00:05:17.010 --> 00:05:19.320
had the Hexagraph Rod
company, and he was one

00:05:19.320 --> 00:05:20.289
of my clients in Chile.

00:05:20.969 --> 00:05:22.950
And you know, Harry
caught a really

00:05:22.950 --> 00:05:24.420
exceptional fish with
me and I think that

00:05:24.450 --> 00:05:25.900
sort of solidified
our relationship.

00:05:25.900 --> 00:05:28.190
And you know, I
helped them out at

00:05:28.190 --> 00:05:30.270
some trade shows
and one of the trade

00:05:30.270 --> 00:05:31.440
shows was in Seattle.

00:05:32.010 --> 00:05:34.500
And so I went down there
and the test is going to

00:05:34.500 --> 00:05:38.049
be there and as it turns
out his rod builder liked

00:05:38.070 --> 00:05:40.979
tequila and, you know, we
were down there at some.

00:05:41.520 --> 00:05:43.229
This was like, I think
if I remember correctly,

00:05:43.229 --> 00:05:44.609
this was like, when
grunge was really

00:05:44.609 --> 00:05:45.699
popular in Seattle.

00:05:45.699 --> 00:05:46.329
Sure, sure.

00:05:46.329 --> 00:05:48.900
And we ended up at
some dive bar, drinking

00:05:48.900 --> 00:05:51.270
tequila, hanging out
with people and you

00:05:51.270 --> 00:05:52.500
know, the next morning
I was like, Oh shoot,

00:05:52.500 --> 00:05:53.340
I got this test.

00:05:53.370 --> 00:05:56.809
So what I remember
distinctly and Mike

00:05:56.809 --> 00:05:59.080
Maxwell and Denise
Maxwell were there and

00:05:59.715 --> 00:06:01.455
Mike was an old veteran
with this, so he knew

00:06:01.455 --> 00:06:02.565
what my issue was.

00:06:02.565 --> 00:06:06.025
But there I was in the
basement of the kingdome

00:06:06.025 --> 00:06:07.815
and they have these
concrete pillars, I've

00:06:07.815 --> 00:06:09.315
got my head pressed
against the concrete

00:06:09.315 --> 00:06:10.665
pillars, just to get
rid of this throbbing

00:06:10.665 --> 00:06:13.175
stinking headache
to pass this test.

00:06:13.335 --> 00:06:15.495
And like I said,
I'm not a drinker,

00:06:15.495 --> 00:06:16.845
this is totally not
something that would

00:06:16.845 --> 00:06:17.505
normally happen.

00:06:17.645 --> 00:06:17.965
Yeah.

00:06:18.415 --> 00:06:20.715
But yeah, stupid day to
choose to be hung over.

00:06:20.955 --> 00:06:22.515
But I did pass
the masters test,

00:06:22.575 --> 00:06:23.565
probably barely.

00:06:23.655 --> 00:06:25.875
And I feel like I've
put it to good use

00:06:25.875 --> 00:06:28.095
since then so, so yeah.

00:06:28.125 --> 00:06:28.325
And.

00:06:28.705 --> 00:06:30.085
I don't know if I
really drank tequila

00:06:30.085 --> 00:06:30.775
like that in my life.

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You gotta learn to
condition yourself

00:06:32.094 --> 00:06:32.695
a bit better.

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Yeah.

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But yeah, that was
a long time ago.

00:06:35.145 --> 00:06:38.955
So growing up, my family
had a part share in a

00:06:39.435 --> 00:06:41.265
fishing lodge up in the
Bonaparte Lake area.

00:06:41.294 --> 00:06:41.655
Cool.

00:06:42.075 --> 00:06:45.044
Lake fishing, beautiful
area, you hike in or

00:06:45.044 --> 00:06:46.215
helicopter into it.

00:06:46.935 --> 00:06:50.474
And as a kid growing
up, my idea of fly

00:06:50.474 --> 00:06:52.965
fishing was, you tie a
fly on the end of the

00:06:53.025 --> 00:06:55.395
single hand casting
rod, and you troll

00:06:55.395 --> 00:06:58.115
that behind a rowboat
until you catch a fish.

00:06:58.534 --> 00:07:01.594
And that's how
I fly fished for

00:07:02.075 --> 00:07:03.335
many, many years.

00:07:03.335 --> 00:07:05.914
And just recently I'm
being turned on to

00:07:05.914 --> 00:07:07.175
this spey fishing.

00:07:07.800 --> 00:07:11.070
What would draw a
person to take up

00:07:11.070 --> 00:07:14.010
space fishing over
top of, I don't know,

00:07:14.340 --> 00:07:15.510
just casting a spoon.

00:07:16.580 --> 00:07:16.910
Sure.

00:07:16.940 --> 00:07:19.400
Well, hey you had me
at the trolling cause I

00:07:19.430 --> 00:07:21.020
grew up trolling a fly.

00:07:21.320 --> 00:07:22.610
We used to do
family vacations

00:07:22.610 --> 00:07:23.510
on Pennask Lake.

00:07:23.600 --> 00:07:23.900
Right.

00:07:23.990 --> 00:07:25.610
And there's something
really exciting about

00:07:25.610 --> 00:07:27.555
a fast troll and the
fish just slamming

00:07:27.555 --> 00:07:29.265
that rod and that rod
just goes like that.

00:07:29.265 --> 00:07:29.525
Sure.

00:07:29.525 --> 00:07:29.615
Boom.

00:07:30.095 --> 00:07:31.605
And you know what, with
the spey, it's kind of

00:07:31.605 --> 00:07:33.465
the same in the sense
that you're always

00:07:33.465 --> 00:07:34.485
waiting for that take.

00:07:34.575 --> 00:07:37.185
And it's all about the
anticipation of that take

00:07:37.635 --> 00:07:39.975
and what you you'll often
hear people say is, Oh,

00:07:39.975 --> 00:07:42.165
I really felt like I was
going to get one there.

00:07:42.745 --> 00:07:45.165
And perhaps they felt
that because, you

00:07:45.165 --> 00:07:46.635
know, the way the fly
was moving, the way

00:07:46.635 --> 00:07:49.695
the water was nice and
smooth, whatever it was,

00:07:49.845 --> 00:07:51.915
it's that anticipation,
that's the thing right.

00:07:51.915 --> 00:07:54.485
And if you can go out
and fish all day, and

00:07:54.485 --> 00:07:57.784
you spend a decent amount
of that day feeling

00:07:57.784 --> 00:07:59.225
like you're going to
get one, you like the

00:07:59.225 --> 00:08:01.475
water, you like the way
you're fishing it, you

00:08:01.475 --> 00:08:03.885
know, that's the thing.

00:08:03.905 --> 00:08:07.055
And you know, so far
as throwing a spoon, a

00:08:07.055 --> 00:08:08.705
spoon is a great way to
cover a lot of water.

00:08:09.215 --> 00:08:10.835
Out of all the different
techniques to fish for

00:08:10.835 --> 00:08:12.575
steelhead spoon fishing
will allow you to

00:08:12.575 --> 00:08:13.890
fish all of the water.

00:08:14.520 --> 00:08:15.930
And you know, there's
something about the

00:08:15.930 --> 00:08:17.370
wobble of that spoon
that you just can't

00:08:17.370 --> 00:08:18.360
replicate with the fly.

00:08:18.410 --> 00:08:18.510
Right.

00:08:18.510 --> 00:08:20.460
And trust me, we tried
that with the flies.

00:08:20.460 --> 00:08:22.200
Today's flies are,
you know, they're

00:08:22.200 --> 00:08:23.220
like lures, right?

00:08:24.060 --> 00:08:26.780
But I think the big thing
was spey casting is,

00:08:26.780 --> 00:08:28.590
is in-between swings.

00:08:28.590 --> 00:08:30.300
We call it a swing
while you're fishing, in

00:08:30.300 --> 00:08:33.600
between swings, you have
the cast and some people

00:08:33.600 --> 00:08:34.890
really get into the cast.

00:08:35.310 --> 00:08:38.890
And if you're casting
well and you like the

00:08:38.909 --> 00:08:40.260
water you're fishing,
I mean that's the

00:08:40.260 --> 00:08:41.340
whole deal, right?

00:08:41.910 --> 00:08:42.210
Right.

00:08:42.470 --> 00:08:43.684
Unfortunately, there
are times when you

00:08:43.684 --> 00:08:45.975
catch fish on casts that
you're not very proud of.

00:08:46.314 --> 00:08:46.574
Sure.

00:08:46.595 --> 00:08:48.925
I don't know if it
diminished the whole

00:08:48.925 --> 00:08:52.084
experience, but it,
you know, it's nice

00:08:52.084 --> 00:08:53.194
when you're casting
well and you're not

00:08:53.194 --> 00:08:53.795
catching anything.

00:08:53.795 --> 00:08:54.814
And you're like, yeah,
that was alright,

00:08:54.844 --> 00:08:55.415
that was a good day.

00:08:56.344 --> 00:08:59.365
It seems completely
foreign thing to most

00:08:59.365 --> 00:09:01.555
people, who've spent
some time fishing, to

00:09:01.584 --> 00:09:04.045
now learn about the
brand new way to cast

00:09:04.045 --> 00:09:05.814
and all the different
accessories that go

00:09:05.814 --> 00:09:07.375
along with spey fishing.

00:09:07.950 --> 00:09:09.630
It's kind of
intimidating, honestly.

00:09:09.630 --> 00:09:11.640
I mean, there's whole
brand new lingo and

00:09:11.640 --> 00:09:13.260
there's all this
extra gear that you

00:09:13.260 --> 00:09:14.100
have to get into.

00:09:14.490 --> 00:09:16.530
What's the easiest
way for someone to

00:09:16.560 --> 00:09:19.170
kind of dabble in
and get into this?

00:09:19.935 --> 00:09:21.945
Well, the truth of
the matter is, there's

00:09:21.945 --> 00:09:23.475
really no such thing
as bad equipment right

00:09:23.475 --> 00:09:25.975
now, and lines have
come a long ways.

00:09:26.325 --> 00:09:28.905
So you can't go wrong,
any, pretty much any

00:09:28.905 --> 00:09:30.825
sprey rod can work as
long as you have an

00:09:30.825 --> 00:09:31.755
appropriate line on it.

00:09:31.815 --> 00:09:34.155
And by appropriate, I
mean, the line should

00:09:34.155 --> 00:09:37.065
be a length that
relates properly to

00:09:37.065 --> 00:09:39.525
both your height and
style of casting and

00:09:39.525 --> 00:09:40.245
the length of the rod.

00:09:40.305 --> 00:09:42.500
So in short, If you're
fishing a 12 foot

00:09:42.500 --> 00:09:45.199
rod, a shorter head,
like a Skagit head is

00:09:45.199 --> 00:09:46.550
going to pair better
than a long belly

00:09:46.550 --> 00:09:47.930
line and vice versa.

00:09:47.930 --> 00:09:50.030
If you're fishing a 15
foot rod, you're going

00:09:50.030 --> 00:09:52.250
to want something with
a longer head because

00:09:52.250 --> 00:09:53.810
the, you know, the
longer rod will move

00:09:53.810 --> 00:09:55.400
more line in the sweep.

00:09:55.560 --> 00:09:55.879
Sure.

00:09:56.060 --> 00:09:58.569
The sweep is by the
way, the portion of

00:09:58.569 --> 00:09:59.959
the spey cast where
load is created.

00:09:59.975 --> 00:10:01.815
So for those listeners
that don't know spey

00:10:01.835 --> 00:10:03.935
casting, all spey
casts start the same.

00:10:03.935 --> 00:10:05.735
They all start with a
lift of the rod tip that

00:10:05.735 --> 00:10:08.335
clears the line off the
water and then you have

00:10:08.335 --> 00:10:11.635
a move, a set move and
what the set move does is

00:10:11.635 --> 00:10:13.915
it positions the anchor
and the anchor is a fancy

00:10:13.915 --> 00:10:15.955
way of saying, where the
line's going to be in

00:10:15.955 --> 00:10:16.915
contact with the water.

00:10:17.310 --> 00:10:19.890
And from there we
sweep the rod, which

00:10:19.890 --> 00:10:21.690
is basically your
back cast, and this is

00:10:21.690 --> 00:10:22.620
where load is created.

00:10:22.620 --> 00:10:24.450
And load is a fancy
way of saying bend.

00:10:24.480 --> 00:10:25.860
So we're basically
trying to put a bend in

00:10:25.860 --> 00:10:28.680
the rod and then as we
complete the back cast,

00:10:28.950 --> 00:10:29.970
there's not a hard stop.

00:10:30.000 --> 00:10:31.200
Like we're single
handing, that's more

00:10:31.200 --> 00:10:33.090
of a transition into
the forward cast.

00:10:33.420 --> 00:10:34.680
And what we're always
trying to do is

00:10:34.680 --> 00:10:36.570
maintain as much of
that load as much of

00:10:36.570 --> 00:10:38.910
that bend, by keeping
tension on everything

00:10:38.910 --> 00:10:40.680
as we transitioned
from the back cast

00:10:40.680 --> 00:10:41.640
into the forward cast.

00:10:42.000 --> 00:10:44.985
And the really cool thing
about it you know, and

00:10:44.985 --> 00:10:47.655
it, to me, it has more
in common with a golf

00:10:47.655 --> 00:10:50.655
swing within a single
hand cast, but it's all

00:10:50.655 --> 00:10:55.185
about getting the rod to
carry the load and then

00:10:55.185 --> 00:10:55.995
releasing that load.

00:10:55.995 --> 00:10:57.944
So if you apply your
power too quickly, the

00:10:57.944 --> 00:11:00.074
load isn't there for
the full length of the

00:11:00.074 --> 00:11:02.745
forward stroke, you know,
you're not going to get

00:11:02.745 --> 00:11:03.854
the best possible result.

00:11:03.864 --> 00:11:06.944
So the equipment will
do the work for you when

00:11:06.944 --> 00:11:08.984
you're casting well,
and I think we learned,

00:11:09.275 --> 00:11:12.405
I think you've learned
that now that applying

00:11:12.405 --> 00:11:14.055
power, I mean, you're
a big guy, hitting it

00:11:14.055 --> 00:11:16.395
hard doesn't necessarily
give you line speed.

00:11:16.775 --> 00:11:17.365
Totally.

00:11:17.365 --> 00:11:18.845
Line speed is what
gives you distance.

00:11:18.965 --> 00:11:19.225
Right.

00:11:19.235 --> 00:11:21.005
You know, so it's all
about loop shape, which

00:11:21.005 --> 00:11:25.505
means, what we want is
the line to go out in a

00:11:25.505 --> 00:11:27.725
very tight pointed arrow.

00:11:28.175 --> 00:11:29.555
And what's going to
cause the line to

00:11:29.555 --> 00:11:31.745
take that shape is the
path of the rod tip

00:11:31.745 --> 00:11:32.525
when it accelerates.

00:11:32.525 --> 00:11:34.025
So if the rod tip
accelerates in a

00:11:34.025 --> 00:11:35.555
straight line path,
then you're going to get

00:11:35.555 --> 00:11:36.455
that nice tight loop.

00:11:36.815 --> 00:11:39.185
If you use too much of
your top hand, chopping

00:11:39.185 --> 00:11:39.995
wood, we might say.

00:11:40.025 --> 00:11:40.355
Okay.

00:11:40.385 --> 00:11:42.790
The loops going to open
up cause the rod tip now

00:11:42.790 --> 00:11:45.069
is traveling in a convex
path, rounded like the

00:11:45.069 --> 00:11:46.209
top of a basketball.

00:11:46.599 --> 00:11:49.420
So it's all about
not applying the

00:11:49.420 --> 00:11:50.349
power too quickly.

00:11:50.739 --> 00:11:52.689
Saying something like
no power before midnight

00:11:52.989 --> 00:11:56.739
or explaining to someone
about trying to use their

00:11:56.739 --> 00:11:58.910
bottom hand, as opposed
to their top hand.

00:11:58.910 --> 00:12:01.420
Right, just operate on
the fulcrum a bit better.

00:12:01.920 --> 00:12:02.250
Yeah.

00:12:02.280 --> 00:12:05.400
You know, at the end
of the day, just like

00:12:05.400 --> 00:12:08.400
golf, you know, you're
going to have some of

00:12:08.400 --> 00:12:10.280
them that don't work out
exactly the way you want.

00:12:10.280 --> 00:12:10.439
Sure.

00:12:10.439 --> 00:12:10.719
Right.

00:12:11.000 --> 00:12:13.430
But it's consistency and
consistency is something

00:12:13.430 --> 00:12:16.460
that comes with mileage
and understanding

00:12:16.610 --> 00:12:18.530
when things aren't
working out, how to

00:12:18.530 --> 00:12:19.520
break down the cast.

00:12:19.520 --> 00:12:21.380
So in the case of
spey casting, the

00:12:21.380 --> 00:12:23.390
foundation of the
house is your anchor.

00:12:23.630 --> 00:12:25.850
So if the cast isn't
working, is your anchor

00:12:25.850 --> 00:12:26.480
in the right spot?

00:12:26.689 --> 00:12:27.980
So, this is just a
very simple thing.

00:12:27.980 --> 00:12:30.140
And I bring that up
because today, when

00:12:30.140 --> 00:12:31.770
we were on the river,
there was a where your

00:12:31.790 --> 00:12:32.760
anchor was too far back.

00:12:32.760 --> 00:12:32.920
Right.

00:12:32.920 --> 00:12:34.610
And then as soon as
you made the adjustment

00:12:34.610 --> 00:12:35.810
to put it where it
was supposed to be,

00:12:36.140 --> 00:12:37.790
boom, the cast started
to work for you.

00:12:38.209 --> 00:12:38.599
Totally.

00:12:39.120 --> 00:12:42.240
Now I've noticed a
trend in the fishing

00:12:42.240 --> 00:12:44.420
lodge up in the
Bonaparte Lake area.

00:12:44.890 --> 00:12:48.829
One of the owners was a
lawyer, another one was,

00:12:48.860 --> 00:12:51.560
had his own accounting
firm, another guy was

00:12:51.560 --> 00:12:52.550
a securities trader.

00:12:53.209 --> 00:12:57.410
And it seems that fly
fishing tends to attract

00:12:57.410 --> 00:12:59.540
a certain type of person
or a couple of different

00:12:59.540 --> 00:13:00.589
types of people anyways.

00:13:01.260 --> 00:13:04.830
It seems to me from
my, sort of casual

00:13:04.830 --> 00:13:07.890
observation, and not
in it as deep as you

00:13:07.890 --> 00:13:10.830
are, that'll attract
people who are very

00:13:10.830 --> 00:13:12.930
particular about the
way that they like to

00:13:12.930 --> 00:13:14.210
have things done right.

00:13:14.210 --> 00:13:16.890
That may be very
methodical in

00:13:16.890 --> 00:13:17.610
their approach.

00:13:18.000 --> 00:13:19.560
And it also seems
to attract the type

00:13:19.560 --> 00:13:21.450
of people that just
absolutely love

00:13:22.395 --> 00:13:25.275
being in the outdoors
and experiencing it

00:13:25.305 --> 00:13:28.905
in as, I guess, as
rustic as possible.

00:13:28.905 --> 00:13:30.345
Is that a fair
observation?

00:13:30.905 --> 00:13:31.005
Yeah.

00:13:31.005 --> 00:13:32.314
You know what I
think within fly

00:13:32.314 --> 00:13:33.935
fishing itself, I
think that there's a

00:13:33.935 --> 00:13:34.625
lot of differences.

00:13:34.625 --> 00:13:37.385
Hey, I can say the same
thing within spey and

00:13:37.415 --> 00:13:39.275
you know, if we were
to come up with some

00:13:39.305 --> 00:13:42.275
stereotypes, let's
break it down this way.

00:13:42.275 --> 00:13:44.939
Let's say that, you know,
when I first started fly

00:13:44.939 --> 00:13:47.160
fishing, I really wanted
to have a fishing vest.

00:13:47.280 --> 00:13:49.500
And when I got a fishing
vest, I wanted to fill

00:13:49.500 --> 00:13:52.230
that vest with as many
boxes of flies and

00:13:52.230 --> 00:13:53.970
knickknacks and this,
that, and the next thing.

00:13:54.750 --> 00:13:56.340
I'm not sure what my
motivation was, I think

00:13:56.340 --> 00:13:59.110
I just wanted to be
prepared, but you know,

00:13:59.130 --> 00:14:00.870
what I learned over a
very short period of

00:14:00.870 --> 00:14:02.760
time is that it's not
comfortable to wear a

00:14:02.760 --> 00:14:04.440
vest full of a bunch
of crap, no matter how

00:14:04.440 --> 00:14:05.490
important that stuff is.

00:14:05.760 --> 00:14:07.440
And if you're trying to
spey cast that's stuff is

00:14:07.450 --> 00:14:08.220
going to be in your way.

00:14:08.520 --> 00:14:11.040
Now, if you're trout
fishing and someone

00:14:11.040 --> 00:14:12.360
who, and there's
different types of

00:14:12.360 --> 00:14:13.200
trout fishing, okay.

00:14:13.530 --> 00:14:16.320
So if you're the type of
trout fishermen who has

00:14:16.320 --> 00:14:19.485
a vest full of stuff,
and you know, you're,

00:14:19.495 --> 00:14:21.015
let's say you're really
technical kind of guy.

00:14:21.015 --> 00:14:21.105
Sure.

00:14:21.105 --> 00:14:23.594
And very organized and
all your boxes have

00:14:23.594 --> 00:14:25.874
little labels, and
these are your nymphs

00:14:25.874 --> 00:14:27.584
and these are your dry
flies and, you know,

00:14:27.584 --> 00:14:29.474
you've got everything
you might possibly need.

00:14:30.705 --> 00:14:32.925
You know, spey casting
is going to give you

00:14:33.105 --> 00:14:35.324
a bit of a relief from
that, because the truth

00:14:35.324 --> 00:14:37.745
of the matter is you
don't need a vest, you

00:14:37.755 --> 00:14:40.035
need three or four flies.

00:14:40.335 --> 00:14:42.074
Like really well,
you don't need

00:14:42.074 --> 00:14:42.705
a lot of flies.

00:14:42.735 --> 00:14:42.944
Right.

00:14:43.125 --> 00:14:44.505
You need maybe a
couple of sink tips

00:14:44.505 --> 00:14:45.355
to cover the water.

00:14:45.465 --> 00:14:47.335
If you have sort of a
plan already where you're

00:14:47.335 --> 00:14:49.555
going to be fishing, you
might not even need that.

00:14:49.555 --> 00:14:51.565
Just the one that's
on there, a spool

00:14:51.565 --> 00:14:53.425
of 15 or 20 pound
maximum Altra green

00:14:53.425 --> 00:14:54.145
and you're good to go.

00:14:54.145 --> 00:14:57.265
So it's very minimalist
and it's very free

00:14:57.265 --> 00:14:58.045
in that sense.

00:14:58.045 --> 00:15:00.055
And once you move
away from having this

00:15:00.055 --> 00:15:02.065
vest rain down on your
shoulders and you're

00:15:02.065 --> 00:15:04.045
trying to fly cast,
and you're just, you

00:15:04.045 --> 00:15:04.915
know, you don't have
to worry about that

00:15:04.915 --> 00:15:08.085
and where it's, yeah,
it's very liberating.

00:15:08.265 --> 00:15:10.725
So I think that within
fly fishing, you've

00:15:10.725 --> 00:15:13.425
got, you know, the
people who pursue big

00:15:13.455 --> 00:15:15.735
game in the warm water,
saltwater environment,

00:15:15.735 --> 00:15:17.115
like your tarp and
fishermen, your permit.

00:15:17.115 --> 00:15:17.215
Sure.

00:15:17.215 --> 00:15:19.395
Fishermen, these are
very dedicated bunch.

00:15:19.395 --> 00:15:20.775
These are like the
trophy hunters.

00:15:21.075 --> 00:15:23.415
Then you've got the
technical trout guys,

00:15:23.625 --> 00:15:26.485
and these are the type
of guys who, you know,

00:15:26.625 --> 00:15:29.565
they understand why
the fish is feeding,

00:15:29.565 --> 00:15:30.225
when it's feeding.

00:15:30.225 --> 00:15:33.285
And they're very, very
good at observing what's

00:15:33.285 --> 00:15:36.005
going on in the river all
the way around and, you

00:15:36.030 --> 00:15:38.319
know, they're essentially
trying to give the

00:15:38.319 --> 00:15:39.949
fish exactly what the
fish wants to eat.

00:15:40.170 --> 00:15:42.310
Then you've got
the trollers at the

00:15:42.310 --> 00:15:43.150
Lake like you were.

00:15:43.209 --> 00:15:43.540
Totally.

00:15:43.660 --> 00:15:47.050
You know, they're, you
know, they got a fly

00:15:47.050 --> 00:15:49.060
which they believe in
and they put it on there

00:15:49.060 --> 00:15:49.780
and they drag it around.

00:15:49.780 --> 00:15:51.099
If it doesn't work,
they change it up.

00:15:51.609 --> 00:15:53.380
Maybe not quite as in
tune with what's going

00:15:53.380 --> 00:15:55.870
on, hatch wise, you
know, maybe they're,

00:15:56.170 --> 00:15:57.370
you know, socializing.

00:15:57.370 --> 00:15:58.569
It's a fun, it's
a fun day out.

00:15:58.569 --> 00:15:58.839
Sure.

00:15:59.370 --> 00:16:01.890
You know, then you've
got the steelhead crowd

00:16:02.190 --> 00:16:04.230
and the steelhead crowd
is like, some of them

00:16:04.230 --> 00:16:05.880
come across as kind of
the spiritual thing,

00:16:05.880 --> 00:16:07.680
because steelhead
fishing is hard.

00:16:08.010 --> 00:16:09.780
Most of the time we
don't catch anything.

00:16:10.350 --> 00:16:13.095
If you're a numbers
guy and, I'm not going

00:16:13.095 --> 00:16:14.805
to pass judgment about
what it means to be

00:16:14.805 --> 00:16:17.145
a numbers guy, but
steelhead fishing isn't

00:16:17.145 --> 00:16:18.465
for numbers people.

00:16:18.735 --> 00:16:20.475
Numbers people are
happier fishing for

00:16:20.475 --> 00:16:23.464
pink salmon or bass
or coho in Alaska.

00:16:23.515 --> 00:16:23.935
Right.

00:16:24.334 --> 00:16:26.435
If you're a steelhead
person, you know, you're

00:16:26.725 --> 00:16:30.375
an optimist and you
probably enjoy crappy

00:16:30.375 --> 00:16:32.265
weather cause a lot
of times steelhead

00:16:32.285 --> 00:16:34.035
fishing takes place in,
you know, challenging

00:16:34.035 --> 00:16:34.875
weather conditions.

00:16:35.590 --> 00:16:38.080
And I suppose it's
almost like a communal

00:16:38.080 --> 00:16:39.910
suffering thing when
you have a lodge full of

00:16:39.910 --> 00:16:41.520
people who are soaking
wet and cold and.

00:16:41.660 --> 00:16:41.880
Yep.

00:16:41.880 --> 00:16:43.330
Maybe two of them
have had a bite, but

00:16:43.330 --> 00:16:44.260
everyone's really happy.

00:16:44.260 --> 00:16:46.390
And isn't it nice to come
back to a warm lodge at

00:16:46.390 --> 00:16:48.430
the end of the day, that
there's maybe something

00:16:48.430 --> 00:16:51.490
to that, but the longer
you go without a bite,

00:16:51.490 --> 00:16:53.260
you know, you go three,
four days with a tug,

00:16:53.260 --> 00:16:55.040
and then all of a sudden
you, a fish rips your

00:16:55.060 --> 00:16:57.130
arm off and away it goes,
you don't forget that.

00:16:57.460 --> 00:17:00.285
Versus some guy
who caught 32

00:17:00.285 --> 00:17:00.954
bass today, right.

00:17:01.104 --> 00:17:01.814
That's a good point.

00:17:02.094 --> 00:17:04.185
So it's a different
kind of deal, it's it's

00:17:04.185 --> 00:17:05.265
more about the hunt.

00:17:05.895 --> 00:17:08.085
And I say it's about
the hunt because you

00:17:08.085 --> 00:17:10.065
really have to believe
that what you're doing

00:17:10.065 --> 00:17:10.935
is going to work.

00:17:11.145 --> 00:17:13.484
So this is, it's really
a mental thing, right?

00:17:13.484 --> 00:17:16.724
So it's, you know, you
don't necessarily change

00:17:16.724 --> 00:17:17.835
your approach too much.

00:17:18.224 --> 00:17:20.744
You have a plan, you
believe where the fish

00:17:20.744 --> 00:17:23.264
are, you have a fly on
there that you think

00:17:23.264 --> 00:17:26.504
is gonna work and,
you know, you just

00:17:26.524 --> 00:17:28.845
execute that plan versus
running through your

00:17:28.845 --> 00:17:30.554
fly box with a bunch
of different flies and

00:17:30.554 --> 00:17:31.514
hoping someone will bite.

00:17:31.544 --> 00:17:33.975
Most of the time out here
on the Skeena there's not

00:17:33.975 --> 00:17:36.764
a fish in front of us,
but we're always doing

00:17:36.825 --> 00:17:38.925
what we believe to be
the right thing, meaning

00:17:38.925 --> 00:17:42.165
we're fishing the right
fly that we believe in,

00:17:42.254 --> 00:17:45.165
in a spot that looks
great to us and we're

00:17:45.165 --> 00:17:47.595
doing it with confidence.

00:17:48.210 --> 00:17:51.390
But you never want
to feel like, okay

00:17:51.390 --> 00:17:52.890
the river owes me
something, I need to get

00:17:52.890 --> 00:17:53.830
a bite, I need a fish.

00:17:53.830 --> 00:17:54.020
Right, right.

00:17:54.190 --> 00:17:55.380
You just have to
be kind of open

00:17:55.380 --> 00:17:56.100
to that happening.

00:17:56.100 --> 00:17:58.050
And, you know, keeping
that fly in the water.

00:17:58.740 --> 00:18:00.510
However many years of
guiding this is been,

00:18:00.570 --> 00:18:04.320
I don't know, I think
it's probably 28 or

00:18:04.320 --> 00:18:04.950
something like that.

00:18:05.430 --> 00:18:07.710
I can tell you two
things, first thing is

00:18:07.710 --> 00:18:10.080
that the best casters,
the people that can

00:18:10.080 --> 00:18:11.910
throw out the farthest
do not catch the most

00:18:11.910 --> 00:18:13.230
fish, this is true.

00:18:13.620 --> 00:18:14.970
And it's very
important because

00:18:15.449 --> 00:18:17.100
you know, the fish
are not that far out.

00:18:17.540 --> 00:18:20.310
The second thing is,
okay sure, you can go

00:18:20.310 --> 00:18:21.780
fishing for an hour
and catch something.

00:18:22.169 --> 00:18:25.139
But the folks that
spend the most time with

00:18:25.139 --> 00:18:27.960
their fly in the water
encounter the most fish.

00:18:28.840 --> 00:18:29.240
Sure.

00:18:29.240 --> 00:18:31.169
And you know, this
has been proven

00:18:31.169 --> 00:18:32.100
time and time again.

00:18:32.210 --> 00:18:37.199
It's okay to take a
break, but from a client

00:18:37.199 --> 00:18:39.300
standpoint, the more
time you keep that fly

00:18:39.300 --> 00:18:41.835
in the water, the better
your chances of success

00:18:41.835 --> 00:18:45.044
because you fish eight,
10 hours, you have fish

00:18:45.044 --> 00:18:47.355
in front of you, maybe
for a quarter of that

00:18:47.355 --> 00:18:49.004
time if you're lucky,
that would be huge.

00:18:49.544 --> 00:18:51.825
And if that happens to
be when you're sitting

00:18:51.825 --> 00:18:55.544
in the boat having
lunch, might not be the

00:18:55.544 --> 00:18:57.254
best use of your time
unless of course the

00:18:57.254 --> 00:18:58.155
lunch was fantastic.

00:19:00.155 --> 00:19:01.685
Let's talk about
gear a little bit.

00:19:01.745 --> 00:19:02.044
Sure.

00:19:02.105 --> 00:19:03.814
So these Pieroway
Rods, you're a

00:19:03.814 --> 00:19:04.625
designer for one.

00:19:05.495 --> 00:19:05.794
Yeah.

00:19:05.794 --> 00:19:07.024
So Jeff's a good
buddy of mine.

00:19:07.024 --> 00:19:08.524
That's Jeff Pieroway,
Pieroway Rod

00:19:08.524 --> 00:19:10.284
company, he's got an
interesting story.

00:19:10.284 --> 00:19:13.080
He was a rod builder,
actually he was a

00:19:13.080 --> 00:19:14.320
stockbroker, to be fair.

00:19:14.340 --> 00:19:16.440
He was a stockbroker
from Newfoundland who was

00:19:16.440 --> 00:19:19.590
working in Calgary and
rod building was a hobby.

00:19:19.740 --> 00:19:22.170
And he had a friend
who lived in South

00:19:22.170 --> 00:19:23.700
Korea where a lot
of rods are built.

00:19:24.150 --> 00:19:25.740
And so he was over
there on a fishing

00:19:25.740 --> 00:19:28.170
trip and also sourcing
some hard to find rod

00:19:28.170 --> 00:19:29.910
material, like rod
building material.

00:19:30.450 --> 00:19:33.990
And he ended up
becoming friends with

00:19:33.990 --> 00:19:35.730
a gentleman who had a
rod factory, who was

00:19:35.730 --> 00:19:37.920
building rods for a lot
of big name companies.

00:19:38.460 --> 00:19:40.830
And, you know, probably,
knowing Jeff, maybe

00:19:40.830 --> 00:19:42.480
it was maybe over a
few beers or what have

00:19:42.480 --> 00:19:44.850
you, he, you know, he
carved out a little

00:19:44.850 --> 00:19:46.770
niche in this guy's
production schedule and

00:19:47.160 --> 00:19:48.280
he was off to the races.

00:19:48.280 --> 00:19:48.679
Nice.

00:19:48.830 --> 00:19:50.639
And the development of
his business is pretty

00:19:50.639 --> 00:19:53.370
cool because if you've
been to Calgary, you

00:19:53.370 --> 00:19:54.810
know, that the Bow River
runs right through it.

00:19:55.540 --> 00:19:58.330
And a lot of folks who
fish the Bow, float

00:19:58.330 --> 00:19:59.440
and drift boats right.

00:19:59.500 --> 00:19:59.770
Okay.

00:20:00.190 --> 00:20:01.570
But a lot of the
younger people don't

00:20:01.570 --> 00:20:02.290
have drift boats.

00:20:02.350 --> 00:20:02.470
Right.

00:20:02.470 --> 00:20:04.120
So a lot of the younger
crowd is, you know, there

00:20:04.120 --> 00:20:06.490
are these dog parks,
like dog-walking parks

00:20:06.490 --> 00:20:08.070
where you can access
the river, footbridges,

00:20:08.070 --> 00:20:08.890
that type of thing.

00:20:09.280 --> 00:20:11.560
And they're fishing from
the bank and so Jeff

00:20:11.560 --> 00:20:13.510
would kind of patrol
these sort of areas.

00:20:13.510 --> 00:20:15.520
And, you know, he was
basically selling his

00:20:15.520 --> 00:20:19.270
rods out of the trunk
of his car and picking

00:20:19.270 --> 00:20:21.160
up garbage as he went
and helping people

00:20:21.160 --> 00:20:21.910
with their casting.

00:20:21.910 --> 00:20:23.890
It was really a
grassroots kind of deal.

00:20:23.950 --> 00:20:24.190
Wow.

00:20:24.375 --> 00:20:26.085
But a lot of those
folks were the early

00:20:26.085 --> 00:20:29.865
adapters of spey casting
in Alberta because,

00:20:30.225 --> 00:20:31.305
and it's a little
different than here.

00:20:31.305 --> 00:20:33.045
What a lot of those folks
are doing are fishing

00:20:33.045 --> 00:20:35.130
like, you know, San
Juan worms or whatever,

00:20:35.130 --> 00:20:37.410
and they can fish more
than one fly underneath

00:20:37.410 --> 00:20:39.570
the bobber and the
spey rod fishing from

00:20:39.570 --> 00:20:41.390
the bank made it easy
to cover the water.

00:20:41.600 --> 00:20:41.700
Right.

00:20:42.030 --> 00:20:45.250
So, you know, Jeff was in
on the, for Alberta, Jeff

00:20:45.250 --> 00:20:48.389
was in on the spey really
early and I met him at

00:20:48.389 --> 00:20:51.750
the Canadian Fly Fishing
Show and, you know,

00:20:51.840 --> 00:20:54.180
struck up a conversation
with Jeff's rep and

00:20:54.210 --> 00:20:55.440
he said, Hey, what do
you think of the rods?

00:20:55.440 --> 00:20:57.129
And I said, Oh, they're
all right, but have

00:20:57.129 --> 00:21:01.129
you ever considered
maybe making the butt

00:21:01.150 --> 00:21:04.060
of the rod a little
bit softer in relation

00:21:04.060 --> 00:21:05.620
to the middle section
of the rod and making

00:21:05.620 --> 00:21:06.400
that a bit stiffer.

00:21:06.580 --> 00:21:08.889
Now, most rods, most
spey rods, and actually

00:21:09.130 --> 00:21:10.870
most, fly rods are
progressive in flex,

00:21:10.870 --> 00:21:12.430
meaning the tip is
softer than the button.

00:21:12.640 --> 00:21:12.910
Okay.

00:21:13.360 --> 00:21:15.030
When we spey cast,
as we've talked about

00:21:15.120 --> 00:21:18.300
earlier, we're creating
load in the sweep and

00:21:18.300 --> 00:21:19.950
we're not stopping
the rod to release the

00:21:19.950 --> 00:21:20.880
load on the back cast.

00:21:20.880 --> 00:21:22.230
What we're trying to
do is keep the load

00:21:22.230 --> 00:21:25.350
within the rod on the
back cast and load comes

00:21:25.350 --> 00:21:28.020
into the rod from the
tip, goes to the butt

00:21:28.020 --> 00:21:29.850
and when it leaves, it
goes out the opposite.

00:21:30.210 --> 00:21:33.390
And the problem with a
conventional progressive

00:21:33.390 --> 00:21:35.880
action rod that stiffen
the butt and soften the

00:21:35.880 --> 00:21:38.129
tip, is it doesn't want
to keep the load in the

00:21:38.129 --> 00:21:39.750
butt, and that's where
most of the power is.

00:21:39.840 --> 00:21:43.800
So, you know, the
concept was to build

00:21:43.800 --> 00:21:47.220
the flex pattern so at
12 o'clock, meaning at

00:21:47.715 --> 00:21:49.725
the part of the forward
cast where the rod would

00:21:49.725 --> 00:21:52.304
essentially be straight
up and down, and this

00:21:52.304 --> 00:21:54.435
is where the rod has to
be the most bent, has

00:21:54.435 --> 00:21:55.315
to carry the most load.

00:21:55.315 --> 00:21:55.565
Okay.

00:21:55.815 --> 00:21:59.395
So if you look at a flat
roof line, a horizontal

00:21:59.415 --> 00:22:02.915
line and you think,
okay, if my rod tip is

00:22:02.915 --> 00:22:04.475
going to accelerate in
a straight line, this

00:22:04.475 --> 00:22:06.304
is essentially the path
that it's going to take.

00:22:06.304 --> 00:22:07.715
So, you know, look
at this beam and you

00:22:07.715 --> 00:22:10.024
think, you know that
rod tip is on that.

00:22:11.135 --> 00:22:13.115
At what point is the rod
going to be most bent?

00:22:13.175 --> 00:22:14.705
Is it going to be
most spent at 12?

00:22:15.270 --> 00:22:17.510
Let's call it 11
and 1, or 10 and

00:22:17.510 --> 00:22:18.600
2, three options.

00:22:18.899 --> 00:22:20.199
And if you think
about it, it's gotta

00:22:20.199 --> 00:22:21.610
be when it's straight
up and down for.

00:22:21.610 --> 00:22:21.770
Sure.

00:22:21.770 --> 00:22:23.070
The rod tip to
be on that line.

00:22:23.535 --> 00:22:26.595
So, what we did is
we work backwards

00:22:26.595 --> 00:22:27.135
from there.

00:22:27.195 --> 00:22:28.905
So we wanted our flex
patterns to be nice

00:22:28.905 --> 00:22:30.435
and balanced end to
have the rod carry

00:22:30.435 --> 00:22:31.314
of the deepest bend.

00:22:31.785 --> 00:22:33.615
And by softening the butt
of the rod, basically

00:22:33.615 --> 00:22:37.025
underneath the cork,
we came up with a rod

00:22:37.025 --> 00:22:39.525
that would very easily
keep its load through

00:22:39.525 --> 00:22:41.504
the transition, at
the end of the sweep

00:22:41.504 --> 00:22:42.615
into the forward cast.

00:22:42.945 --> 00:22:44.715
And so you get a
ton of line speed

00:22:44.805 --> 00:22:47.175
without having to you
know, work very hard.

00:22:47.175 --> 00:22:49.485
The rod does all the work
for you and that's the

00:22:49.485 --> 00:22:50.565
Metal Detector series.

00:22:50.795 --> 00:22:51.115
Yeah.

00:22:51.615 --> 00:22:54.495
We started out with,
well we were going to

00:22:54.495 --> 00:22:57.515
start out with a couple
of different rods in

00:22:57.515 --> 00:22:58.935
it and we ended up
starting out with three.

00:22:59.385 --> 00:23:03.685
So we did a 12 foot 510.

00:23:03.705 --> 00:23:06.555
510 grain rod,
which is kind of

00:23:06.555 --> 00:23:07.275
like a seven eight.

00:23:07.575 --> 00:23:07.815
Okay.

00:23:07.815 --> 00:23:08.085
Okay.

00:23:08.085 --> 00:23:10.085
So this is kind of
your all around trout,

00:23:10.085 --> 00:23:10.995
light salmon rod.

00:23:11.475 --> 00:23:13.605
Then we did a heavier
rod, which I think you

00:23:13.605 --> 00:23:14.265
were fishing today.

00:23:14.265 --> 00:23:17.355
That's the seven
20,13 foot 5 inches.

00:23:17.625 --> 00:23:19.805
This was purpose-built
for Chinook and

00:23:19.825 --> 00:23:20.505
large steelhead.

00:23:21.675 --> 00:23:24.735
Then we also had a switch
rod, now switch rods,

00:23:24.735 --> 00:23:27.255
a rod that can be cast
single hand or a spey.

00:23:27.325 --> 00:23:27.815
Right.

00:23:27.815 --> 00:23:28.855
It's a compromise rod.

00:23:28.925 --> 00:23:29.125
Sure.

00:23:29.145 --> 00:23:31.775
So generally speaking a
switch rod doesn't spey

00:23:31.775 --> 00:23:33.555
cast as well as a two
hander and it doesn't

00:23:33.555 --> 00:23:35.835
single hand as nice as a
single hand, cause it's

00:23:35.835 --> 00:23:36.525
a little bit bigger.

00:23:36.555 --> 00:23:36.795
Right.

00:23:37.395 --> 00:23:40.605
And the failure of a lot
of switch rod designs

00:23:40.605 --> 00:23:43.145
are that they're too long
to single hand without,

00:23:43.205 --> 00:23:44.255
you know, getting tired.

00:23:44.315 --> 00:23:44.645
Right.

00:23:44.675 --> 00:23:47.855
So 10 and a half feet is
sort of the magic number

00:23:47.855 --> 00:23:49.695
and that's pretty much
where we were with that.

00:23:49.695 --> 00:23:52.125
And that's a 400
grain, so that's a

00:23:52.125 --> 00:23:54.795
six seven, perfect rod
for fishing the Bow.

00:23:55.575 --> 00:23:57.105
And so those were the
three initial ones.

00:23:57.675 --> 00:23:59.115
And then we wanted
to kind of like a

00:23:59.115 --> 00:24:01.605
heavier steelhead
rod to fill the gaps.

00:24:01.605 --> 00:24:03.945
So we came up with
a 600, which is 12

00:24:03.945 --> 00:24:04.905
foot, 10 inches.

00:24:04.965 --> 00:24:05.235
Right.

00:24:05.445 --> 00:24:07.135
And I think you actually
own one of those.

00:24:07.155 --> 00:24:08.264
I do have one
of those, yes.

00:24:08.264 --> 00:24:09.014
Actually you
have a couple of

00:24:09.014 --> 00:24:09.665
those pardon me.

00:24:09.725 --> 00:24:12.645
And that's my favorite
rod for fishing the

00:24:12.645 --> 00:24:15.035
Skeena, that's just the
perfect all-around-er.

00:24:15.615 --> 00:24:17.504
And now we have a
couple rods in the

00:24:17.504 --> 00:24:18.314
six piece series.

00:24:18.314 --> 00:24:23.095
We have a 675 grain,
which is basically, you

00:24:23.225 --> 00:24:26.175
know, a total middle
of the road, salmon

00:24:26.175 --> 00:24:27.885
steelhead rod, just
a little bit beefier

00:24:27.885 --> 00:24:32.580
than the 600 and a bit
of a de-tuned version

00:24:32.580 --> 00:24:33.699
of the Chinook od.

00:24:33.719 --> 00:24:35.490
And, you know, that's
a real popular one with

00:24:35.490 --> 00:24:36.410
Atlantic salmon guys.

00:24:36.430 --> 00:24:36.610
Totally.

00:24:36.640 --> 00:24:37.070
Because.

00:24:37.070 --> 00:24:39.410
You fly with that, throw
them in your backpack.

00:24:39.410 --> 00:24:40.669
Yeah so, it's so easy.

00:24:40.669 --> 00:24:42.229
I think that's the way
of the future, because

00:24:42.740 --> 00:24:44.510
it's not that people
don't trust the airlines,

00:24:44.510 --> 00:24:45.800
but they just don't
want to give them extra

00:24:45.800 --> 00:24:46.790
money for another bag.

00:24:46.820 --> 00:24:48.919
So being able to stuff
it in their suitcase,

00:24:49.560 --> 00:24:50.890
makes it a lot harder
for me when I'm at the

00:24:50.890 --> 00:24:52.120
airport, by the way
and I'm trying to pick

00:24:52.120 --> 00:24:53.350
out who our guests are.

00:24:53.830 --> 00:24:55.150
Usually you're looking
for the rod tubes

00:24:55.150 --> 00:24:56.920
and these guys just
have like briefcases

00:24:56.920 --> 00:24:57.560
with rods in 'em.

00:24:57.580 --> 00:25:00.280
But, and now we have a
new one coming out, which

00:25:00.280 --> 00:25:02.170
is a different material,
I'm not probably supposed

00:25:02.170 --> 00:25:03.850
to talk about it yet
because it's not out,

00:25:03.850 --> 00:25:05.590
but it's definitely
something to watch for

00:25:05.590 --> 00:25:06.530
this year, hopefully.

00:25:07.050 --> 00:25:10.960
And that's going to
be a lighter stiffer

00:25:11.040 --> 00:25:11.980
steelhead rod.

00:25:12.180 --> 00:25:14.890
And, I forgot, we also
have a competition

00:25:14.890 --> 00:25:16.960
rod, a 15 foot, 1200.

00:25:16.960 --> 00:25:17.090
Geez.

00:25:17.090 --> 00:25:18.820
Grain thing that, so
this is a bunch of them.

00:25:19.000 --> 00:25:19.510
There's a bunch.

00:25:19.540 --> 00:25:20.100
No kidding.

00:25:20.100 --> 00:25:20.570
Of metal detectors.

00:25:20.570 --> 00:25:21.297
Started out for three
and you got like

00:25:21.297 --> 00:25:22.230
what, like six, seven.

00:25:22.230 --> 00:25:22.500
Yeah.

00:25:22.800 --> 00:25:25.050
It's added up and
then we've also

00:25:25.070 --> 00:25:27.399
done the X-Series.

00:25:27.500 --> 00:25:29.570
Which by the way,
Pieroway had before Sage

00:25:29.570 --> 00:25:30.680
copied him on that name.

00:25:32.620 --> 00:25:33.560
Yeah, yeah, true story.

00:25:33.950 --> 00:25:36.290
And they sent him a
letter saying you can't,

00:25:36.950 --> 00:25:38.990
he didn't, he never did
trademark or anything,

00:25:38.990 --> 00:25:40.850
but they said, Hey,
well it's a letter, you

00:25:40.850 --> 00:25:41.810
can't copy right it.

00:25:42.020 --> 00:25:42.380
No.

00:25:42.950 --> 00:25:43.820
You can't trademark it.

00:25:43.820 --> 00:25:44.040
Totally.

00:25:44.330 --> 00:25:45.740
I thought it was cheesy
to be honest with

00:25:45.740 --> 00:25:49.500
you, but copycats and.

00:25:49.570 --> 00:25:50.879
Yeah, you just can't
get away from that.

00:25:50.879 --> 00:25:52.480
It doesn't matter what
business you're in.

00:25:52.550 --> 00:25:54.390
Yeah, it's, so we took
it as a compliment

00:25:54.409 --> 00:25:55.159
gesture though.

00:25:55.699 --> 00:25:58.490
He's also done a shorter
space series called

00:25:58.490 --> 00:25:59.360
the Renegade series.

00:25:59.360 --> 00:26:01.699
And this is with Jerry
French, who's one of the

00:26:01.699 --> 00:26:05.090
originals Skagit guides,
one of the originators

00:26:05.149 --> 00:26:08.870
of the Intruder fly and
just an all around a

00:26:08.879 --> 00:26:09.889
magician on the water.

00:26:09.889 --> 00:26:13.560
So yeah, Pieroway coming
on strong and he's got

00:26:13.580 --> 00:26:15.110
a different business
model because he doesn't

00:26:15.264 --> 00:26:16.794
really sell to dealers.

00:26:17.065 --> 00:26:17.395
Okay.

00:26:17.455 --> 00:26:18.835
If you want to buy
a Pieroway Rod.

00:26:18.865 --> 00:26:20.034
You gotta be on
the Bow River.

00:26:20.095 --> 00:26:22.555
You got to go see Jeff
at his shop, which is

00:26:22.555 --> 00:26:24.355
basically his workshop
in a little retail

00:26:24.355 --> 00:26:25.115
store in Calgary.

00:26:25.695 --> 00:26:26.105
Okay.

00:26:26.105 --> 00:26:27.875
And then, you know,
a few lodges and

00:26:27.895 --> 00:26:29.784
stuff, sell them
where people use them.

00:26:29.995 --> 00:26:32.395
So yeah, happy to be
involved with Jeff.

00:26:32.395 --> 00:26:34.254
Jeff's just a really
good dude, but you're

00:26:34.254 --> 00:26:36.175
hard pressed to find a
bad Newfie, that's true.

00:26:36.385 --> 00:26:39.390
So on the side of that
rod, there's a picture of

00:26:39.390 --> 00:26:42.930
a fish sort of flames on
the fish or what is that?

00:26:43.490 --> 00:26:45.649
That was the logo for
Whistler fly fishing,

00:26:45.649 --> 00:26:50.565
so that was a design
my brother came up with

00:26:50.655 --> 00:26:52.845
many years ago and we
sell lots of hats and

00:26:52.845 --> 00:26:54.325
t-shirts, and that
type of thing with i.

00:26:54.555 --> 00:26:56.675
See I was told that
people who weren't into

00:26:56.675 --> 00:26:59.354
fishing at all, would
come by and purchase this

00:26:59.375 --> 00:27:00.985
gear just for that logo.

00:27:01.754 --> 00:27:03.095
You know, Whistler's
funny, people

00:27:03.095 --> 00:27:04.985
are always buying
souvenir type things.

00:27:04.985 --> 00:27:07.745
So yeah, we sold a
lot of stuff with that

00:27:07.745 --> 00:27:08.735
fish on it for sure.

00:27:09.065 --> 00:27:12.725
Fly fishing, spey
casting, this has

00:27:12.725 --> 00:27:16.695
typically been in days
of old, associated

00:27:16.695 --> 00:27:18.915
with more stodgy old
men on the river,

00:27:19.365 --> 00:27:21.015
but you're definitely
seeing a transition

00:27:21.015 --> 00:27:21.705
over the years.

00:27:22.379 --> 00:27:24.570
You're seeing a much
younger crowd getting

00:27:24.570 --> 00:27:26.879
into it, a much
wider demographic.

00:27:27.120 --> 00:27:29.280
I'm wondering how
much you had to play

00:27:29.280 --> 00:27:32.580
in all of that with
Whistler spey casting.

00:27:32.820 --> 00:27:33.880
I mean, locally anways.

00:27:33.880 --> 00:27:34.350
Yeah okay.

00:27:34.370 --> 00:27:36.560
So I think the first
thing to understand

00:27:36.590 --> 00:27:38.899
is that the best swung
fly fisheries in the

00:27:38.899 --> 00:27:42.860
world are places like
Argentina, Russia,

00:27:43.010 --> 00:27:44.540
Iceland, Norway.

00:27:45.290 --> 00:27:46.610
Sure BC, right?

00:27:46.639 --> 00:27:46.940
Sure.

00:27:47.030 --> 00:27:49.010
And the big difference
between BC and a

00:27:49.010 --> 00:27:52.410
lot of these other
places are the access.

00:27:52.440 --> 00:27:55.240
So I'll give you an
example, so might

00:27:55.240 --> 00:27:55.860
as well start here.

00:27:55.860 --> 00:27:57.900
Spey, Scotland, right?

00:27:57.930 --> 00:27:58.260
Sure.

00:27:58.590 --> 00:28:01.050
To fish in Scotland on
a really good stretch

00:28:01.050 --> 00:28:04.754
of river, typically,
perhaps not always, but

00:28:04.754 --> 00:28:08.534
typically requires a fair
amount of money okay.

00:28:08.735 --> 00:28:09.054
Sure.

00:28:09.155 --> 00:28:10.725
This is not something
you can just like

00:28:10.725 --> 00:28:11.625
buy rod and go.

00:28:11.655 --> 00:28:11.895
Yeah.

00:28:11.955 --> 00:28:13.575
You know, you need
to have the rights

00:28:13.575 --> 00:28:14.235
to fish there.

00:28:14.294 --> 00:28:15.254
Some land access.

00:28:15.284 --> 00:28:15.675
Yeah.

00:28:15.884 --> 00:28:17.715
And you know, I
think Norway is even

00:28:17.715 --> 00:28:18.645
more complicated.

00:28:18.885 --> 00:28:20.725
Iceland's become
less complicated, but

00:28:21.120 --> 00:28:23.550
there's a common theme
here and that usually

00:28:23.550 --> 00:28:25.230
you're going to have
some money to do this.

00:28:25.290 --> 00:28:28.980
And BC is totally
different because in BC

00:28:29.010 --> 00:28:30.930
you're not restricted
where you can go fishing.

00:28:31.470 --> 00:28:35.340
And so the average
age of a swung fly

00:28:35.340 --> 00:28:38.070
salmon angler here is
much lower then say

00:28:38.070 --> 00:28:39.430
England as an example.

00:28:39.710 --> 00:28:41.830
Which is a tremendous
investment in our future.

00:28:42.020 --> 00:28:43.330
It's just the way
it worked out.

00:28:43.330 --> 00:28:46.879
I mean the whole public
access thing here is

00:28:46.879 --> 00:28:48.129
just superb, right?

00:28:48.129 --> 00:28:48.739
It's phenominal.

00:28:48.769 --> 00:28:50.830
Yeah, as a BC resident,
you buy your license

00:28:50.830 --> 00:28:51.970
once, you can go
wherever you want.

00:28:52.690 --> 00:28:55.030
Sure, we do restrict
the non-residents a bit.

00:28:55.720 --> 00:28:56.740
You know, there's
certain rivers where

00:28:56.800 --> 00:28:58.810
can't fish on a weekend
or, or one day of the

00:28:58.810 --> 00:29:01.120
week or whatever it
is, at the Copper it's

00:29:01.120 --> 00:29:03.070
three days they can't
fish, but they still got

00:29:03.070 --> 00:29:04.030
lots of other options.

00:29:04.480 --> 00:29:07.720
So in Eastern Canada, we
have, you know, Quebec's

00:29:07.720 --> 00:29:09.310
got some of the best
Atlantic salmon fishing

00:29:09.310 --> 00:29:11.500
in the world and the
way that they control

00:29:11.500 --> 00:29:13.410
access there is for
something called the ZEC.

00:29:13.990 --> 00:29:15.669
And essentially what
they're doing is

00:29:15.669 --> 00:29:17.710
limiting the amount of
anglers on a particular

00:29:17.710 --> 00:29:18.490
section of river.

00:29:18.490 --> 00:29:19.810
So it's almost like
you have to make an

00:29:19.810 --> 00:29:22.300
appointment to be able to
go fish a piece of water.

00:29:22.629 --> 00:29:25.175
Whereas in BC, we can
travel around and fish

00:29:25.175 --> 00:29:26.885
at our whim provided
we have our license.

00:29:26.915 --> 00:29:27.185
Right.

00:29:27.485 --> 00:29:30.275
So I guess where I'm
going with all this

00:29:30.325 --> 00:29:32.705
is, you don't have
barriers for people

00:29:32.705 --> 00:29:33.665
to access the water.

00:29:33.695 --> 00:29:35.165
So they have to buy the
gear and they'll probably

00:29:35.165 --> 00:29:37.355
get some waders, but
then they're good to go.

00:29:37.925 --> 00:29:40.845
And, you know,
for myself, skiing

00:29:40.845 --> 00:29:42.755
and fishing always
been my passion.

00:29:43.025 --> 00:29:45.155
We talked about, you
know, how I started out

00:29:45.155 --> 00:29:47.764
as a ski instructor, so
obviously I'm in Whistler

00:29:47.885 --> 00:29:49.985
and what am I going
to do for the summer?

00:29:50.254 --> 00:29:52.805
Okay, well, I know I'll
be a golf pro okay.

00:29:52.925 --> 00:29:55.024
I'm not a bad golfer, but
I'm not a good golfer.

00:29:55.715 --> 00:29:58.745
And so I got a job on
the golf course, right.

00:29:58.745 --> 00:30:01.055
Nicklaus North, and I
was golfing all the time.

00:30:01.055 --> 00:30:02.284
I was like, I'll
figure this out.

00:30:02.284 --> 00:30:04.794
Like a couple of rounds
a day, I'll be pro

00:30:04.805 --> 00:30:05.485
before you know it.

00:30:06.055 --> 00:30:08.395
And meanwhile I had
done some fish guiding

00:30:08.395 --> 00:30:11.515
previous and you know,
I ended up starting

00:30:11.515 --> 00:30:12.445
to work fish guiding.

00:30:12.445 --> 00:30:13.735
And so I was volunteering
at the golf course,

00:30:13.765 --> 00:30:16.105
trying to bang out, or,
you know, let's say 10

00:30:16.105 --> 00:30:18.835
rounds a week because I
wanted to be a golf pro.

00:30:18.895 --> 00:30:19.165
Yeah.

00:30:19.675 --> 00:30:22.045
Cause it would supplement
my skiing in the winter.

00:30:22.675 --> 00:30:25.615
And then meanwhile, I
was sort of spending

00:30:25.615 --> 00:30:27.025
a little bit of time
fish guiding, which

00:30:27.025 --> 00:30:27.925
had already been doing.

00:30:28.195 --> 00:30:30.385
And I realized,
Hey, there's a lot

00:30:30.385 --> 00:30:31.285
of potential here.

00:30:31.705 --> 00:30:33.895
And the golf course, I
was also figuring out

00:30:33.895 --> 00:30:36.235
that unless you're a
really great golfer,

00:30:36.555 --> 00:30:39.135
a golf pro is going to
stand next to someone at

00:30:39.135 --> 00:30:40.785
the driving range right.

00:30:41.685 --> 00:30:43.395
Whereas when you're
teaching skiing,

00:30:43.395 --> 00:30:44.955
you're out on the hill,
when you're guiding

00:30:44.955 --> 00:30:46.095
fly fishing, you're
out on the river.

00:30:46.560 --> 00:30:48.660
It wasn't quite as
exciting as I sort

00:30:48.660 --> 00:30:49.290
of pictured it.

00:30:49.290 --> 00:30:49.750
I mean, I wasn't.

00:30:49.750 --> 00:30:50.350
That's a good point.

00:30:50.350 --> 00:30:51.780
Like imagining I'd
be like out on the

00:30:51.780 --> 00:30:54.480
tour or anything,
but, you know, I just

00:30:54.480 --> 00:30:55.350
decided that, okay.

00:30:55.350 --> 00:30:56.430
I was going, golf
was going to be a

00:30:56.430 --> 00:30:58.020
recreational thing for
me, besides it's really

00:30:58.020 --> 00:30:58.890
hard, I'm not that good.

00:30:59.550 --> 00:31:04.030
So, you know, Whistler
at that time, we had a

00:31:04.030 --> 00:31:06.370
ton of tourist traffic
that was looking for an

00:31:06.370 --> 00:31:07.420
activity in the summer.

00:31:07.930 --> 00:31:10.500
And, you know, you could
pick a thing, I mean,

00:31:10.500 --> 00:31:13.150
ATV tours, horseback
tours, mountain bikes,

00:31:13.180 --> 00:31:14.110
it's all there okay.

00:31:14.170 --> 00:31:14.440
Right.

00:31:14.560 --> 00:31:16.930
But float tubing, so
sitting in the floating

00:31:16.930 --> 00:31:19.150
tube on the local lakes
and there's some good

00:31:19.150 --> 00:31:21.690
lakes there, but that
was kind of your standard

00:31:21.690 --> 00:31:23.830
guided trip, but there
was some river fishing.

00:31:24.130 --> 00:31:25.930
It wasn't right in
Whistler, but there

00:31:25.930 --> 00:31:28.000
was some river fishing
and it was pretty good

00:31:28.240 --> 00:31:29.170
at the right time.

00:31:29.910 --> 00:31:32.220
But here's the thing the
right time wasn't really

00:31:32.220 --> 00:31:35.040
in the summer, the right
time was actually in

00:31:35.340 --> 00:31:37.669
the spring, the winter
and the fall okay.

00:31:38.280 --> 00:31:41.100
So the float tubes in the
summer, a lot of those

00:31:41.100 --> 00:31:43.050
people, you know, they'd
never done it before.

00:31:43.080 --> 00:31:44.450
So we put them in the
float tube and they

00:31:44.450 --> 00:31:45.910
kicked around and they
were trolling like, like

00:31:45.930 --> 00:31:47.550
you, like, you were only
there in a float tube.

00:31:47.639 --> 00:31:47.710
Yeah.

00:31:48.030 --> 00:31:49.710
But they all wanted
to learn how to cast.

00:31:50.340 --> 00:31:52.260
But learning how to cast
in a float tube is not

00:31:52.260 --> 00:31:53.400
the ideal situation.

00:31:53.430 --> 00:31:53.610
Right.

00:31:53.610 --> 00:31:55.010
Because you're
sitting down right.

00:31:55.010 --> 00:31:55.070
Yeah.

00:31:55.709 --> 00:31:57.645
So it was like, you
know, nevermind being

00:31:57.645 --> 00:31:59.535
a fishing guide, I'm
going to start a fly

00:31:59.535 --> 00:32:01.545
fishing school and I will
teach these people on

00:32:01.545 --> 00:32:02.715
the grass, how to cast.

00:32:03.255 --> 00:32:04.125
And then if they
want to go in the

00:32:04.125 --> 00:32:05.425
float too, we'll sell
them a guided trip.

00:32:05.425 --> 00:32:06.585
But this is, this
is kind of the

00:32:06.585 --> 00:32:07.335
whole thing started.

00:32:07.585 --> 00:32:08.295
Very smart.

00:32:08.355 --> 00:32:08.655
Yeah.

00:32:08.685 --> 00:32:11.895
And, and then we did
our real fishing in

00:32:11.895 --> 00:32:13.365
the other three months,
especially in the

00:32:13.365 --> 00:32:14.985
winter, that's when the
good trout fishing was.

00:32:15.345 --> 00:32:17.595
And so over the course
of a decade or more,

00:32:17.655 --> 00:32:19.245
you know, we built up
a pretty good winter

00:32:19.245 --> 00:32:21.735
steelhead clientele,
and a lot of those folks

00:32:21.735 --> 00:32:23.925
are still with us today
here at Skeena spey.

00:32:24.675 --> 00:32:28.275
But, you know,
certainly the local

00:32:28.455 --> 00:32:29.505
Whistler residents.

00:32:29.505 --> 00:32:32.505
And, you know, I want to
say your average Whistler

00:32:32.505 --> 00:32:34.515
resident is probably
in their thirties.

00:32:34.515 --> 00:32:35.595
I don't know if
that's true or not,

00:32:35.985 --> 00:32:36.495
you know, there's.

00:32:36.605 --> 00:32:37.235
Seems that way.

00:32:37.345 --> 00:32:37.755
Yeah.

00:32:37.755 --> 00:32:39.925
You know, it's a young
town, even old folks

00:32:39.945 --> 00:32:41.535
seem young there,
it's a young town.

00:32:41.535 --> 00:32:42.975
It's a great place,
tremendous sense

00:32:42.975 --> 00:32:45.555
of community, but
everyone is really

00:32:45.555 --> 00:32:48.885
outdoors orientated,
looking for something

00:32:48.905 --> 00:32:50.075
new to do outside.

00:32:50.105 --> 00:32:52.205
And I can't count
the number of ski

00:32:52.205 --> 00:32:53.705
and snowboard pros
that came through my

00:32:53.705 --> 00:32:56.225
shop and wanted to
get into fly fishing.

00:32:56.225 --> 00:32:58.385
And some of them now
are really accomplished,

00:32:58.385 --> 00:32:59.135
fly fishers.

00:32:59.565 --> 00:33:00.845
A lot of times it
would be because

00:33:00.845 --> 00:33:01.595
they had an injury.

00:33:01.705 --> 00:33:03.335
They, you know, they
couldn't ride up on

00:33:03.335 --> 00:33:05.205
the glacier in the
summer so they were

00:33:05.225 --> 00:33:06.754
going to fly fish and
learn how to fly fish.

00:33:07.405 --> 00:33:10.395
But, you know, I think I
did sel; a lot of people

00:33:10.395 --> 00:33:11.305
their first fly rods.

00:33:11.365 --> 00:33:13.135
I definitely sold a
lot of people at first

00:33:13.135 --> 00:33:17.685
spey rods and you know,
overall our clientele

00:33:17.685 --> 00:33:21.405
at, out of that shop was
much younger than say,

00:33:21.825 --> 00:33:23.655
you know, your typical
hardy's crowd right.

00:33:23.665 --> 00:33:24.385
Right, right.

00:33:24.725 --> 00:33:28.695
And I think for the lodge
too, I should mention

00:33:28.695 --> 00:33:31.740
this, your typical
steelhead lodge in BC.

00:33:31.740 --> 00:33:33.600
Sure, old, rich
white guys are there.

00:33:33.670 --> 00:33:33.850
Right.

00:33:33.850 --> 00:33:35.190
This is what you
would expect.

00:33:35.190 --> 00:33:35.300
Yeah.

00:33:35.760 --> 00:33:37.500
And I think our
clientele here is much

00:33:37.500 --> 00:33:38.400
more diverse than that.

00:33:38.400 --> 00:33:39.960
We do get a lot of
couples, we get a lot of

00:33:39.960 --> 00:33:43.709
families, we get a lot
of kids, lots of females.

00:33:43.820 --> 00:33:43.959
Yeah.

00:33:43.959 --> 00:33:45.750
You know, we've had
female guides, still

00:33:45.750 --> 00:33:49.920
have female guides and,
you know, I think it's

00:33:49.920 --> 00:33:53.264
just good business if
nothing else, because if

00:33:53.264 --> 00:33:55.695
you limit your clientele
to one type of client

00:33:55.965 --> 00:33:57.885
and they're older, how
many more years are you

00:33:57.885 --> 00:33:58.544
going to get out of them?

00:33:58.544 --> 00:33:58.804
Totally.

00:33:58.804 --> 00:33:58.995
Right.

00:33:58.995 --> 00:34:00.735
If you have a client
who's in their

00:34:00.735 --> 00:34:01.875
twenties, right?

00:34:01.905 --> 00:34:02.024
Yeah.

00:34:02.675 --> 00:34:03.794
And if it's some.

00:34:03.794 --> 00:34:04.725
You've got the
rest of your life.

00:34:04.845 --> 00:34:05.764
Yeah, yeah,
yeah, totally.

00:34:05.764 --> 00:34:09.304
And you know when
you have couples as

00:34:09.304 --> 00:34:12.545
clients, they tend to
be well-behaved, they

00:34:12.545 --> 00:34:14.495
don't keep the rest of
the guests up seeing who

00:34:14.495 --> 00:34:15.304
can get the drunkest.

00:34:16.264 --> 00:34:18.574
If the wife's into fly
fishing and she's trying

00:34:18.574 --> 00:34:21.120
to get her husband
into fishing, and he's

00:34:21.120 --> 00:34:22.650
doing it, she's happy.

00:34:22.650 --> 00:34:24.299
Regardless of whether
the river's full

00:34:24.299 --> 00:34:24.949
of fish or not.

00:34:25.080 --> 00:34:25.210
Right.

00:34:25.330 --> 00:34:26.759
If people are trying
to get their kids into

00:34:26.759 --> 00:34:29.159
it and the kids aren't
bored, they're stoked.

00:34:29.429 --> 00:34:32.929
And I think the crew
of the team that we

00:34:32.929 --> 00:34:35.330
have here, what would
they do exceptionally

00:34:35.330 --> 00:34:37.639
well is, is teach.

00:34:37.670 --> 00:34:39.170
You know, there's some
lazy fishing guides in

00:34:39.170 --> 00:34:43.350
this world and everyone
can have an off day and

00:34:43.409 --> 00:34:45.420
some fishing guides think
their job description

00:34:45.420 --> 00:34:47.100
is to sit in a boat and
drink coffee and if you

00:34:47.100 --> 00:34:48.540
hook something, they'll
come with the net.

00:34:49.009 --> 00:34:50.670
Other fishing guides,
they're going to stand

00:34:50.670 --> 00:34:53.040
at your shoulder and
do their best to, you

00:34:53.040 --> 00:34:55.170
know, if nothing else,
improve your casting or

00:34:55.170 --> 00:34:58.170
make you understand why
they have you fishing

00:34:58.190 --> 00:35:00.200
in particular spot
at a particular time.

00:35:00.890 --> 00:35:02.720
So if you don't catch
something today, at least

00:35:02.720 --> 00:35:04.549
there's some value that
down the road, maybe

00:35:04.549 --> 00:35:06.049
this knowledge will
still be there for you.

00:35:06.049 --> 00:35:09.870
So I think, one thing
we've done well as

00:35:09.870 --> 00:35:11.820
a business is get
new people into it.

00:35:11.820 --> 00:35:11.910
Right.

00:35:11.910 --> 00:35:14.250
And of course that's
creating new clients.

00:35:14.250 --> 00:35:16.410
So that's way better
than, you know, trying

00:35:16.410 --> 00:35:18.030
to steal clients
from another lodge or

00:35:18.030 --> 00:35:18.610
something like that.

00:35:18.610 --> 00:35:18.830
Totally.

00:35:19.290 --> 00:35:22.290
So yeah, I think, you
know if your client,

00:35:22.290 --> 00:35:23.470
if you're looking at
your clientele and

00:35:23.470 --> 00:35:26.640
your lodge owner, and
it's all a bunch of

00:35:26.640 --> 00:35:28.440
old, rich, white guys,
you should be really

00:35:28.440 --> 00:35:29.280
freaked out right now.

00:35:30.390 --> 00:35:31.290
Yeah, that's
a good point.

00:35:31.290 --> 00:35:33.970
Especially if they're not
Canadians, cause quite

00:35:33.970 --> 00:35:36.150
frankly, I think we're
going to be dealing with

00:35:36.150 --> 00:35:38.100
domestic clientele for
another year at least.

00:35:38.570 --> 00:35:39.590
I think you're
right on that one.

00:35:40.460 --> 00:35:43.520
For somebody wanting to
get into spey fishing.

00:35:43.550 --> 00:35:44.960
What does a season
look like if they're

00:35:44.960 --> 00:35:46.700
willing to travel
around BC a bit?

00:35:47.069 --> 00:35:47.399
Oh man.

00:35:47.529 --> 00:35:48.799
It's year
round, for sure.

00:35:48.850 --> 00:35:49.080
Really?

00:35:49.279 --> 00:35:51.930
So let's pretend
that they live in

00:35:51.930 --> 00:35:53.249
the Lower Mainland
cause most people do.

00:35:53.310 --> 00:35:53.890
Totally.

00:35:54.390 --> 00:35:55.109
Right.

00:35:55.109 --> 00:35:58.930
Sometimes you get a
real winter, but let's

00:35:58.930 --> 00:36:01.450
say January, so January
you, you can be up the

00:36:01.540 --> 00:36:04.765
Squamish system and
spey fishing for trout

00:36:05.065 --> 00:36:06.655
and then steel head
tend to start showing

00:36:06.655 --> 00:36:07.915
up in February, March.

00:36:07.945 --> 00:36:09.835
So you've got steelhead
fishing up there.

00:36:09.835 --> 00:36:11.125
You've also got steelhead
fishing out in the

00:36:11.125 --> 00:36:14.085
Fraser Valley, out in
the tributaries of the

00:36:14.085 --> 00:36:16.795
Fraser as well as the
Vedder itself, obviously

00:36:16.795 --> 00:36:17.865
Fraser tributary too.

00:36:17.935 --> 00:36:18.145
Yeah.

00:36:18.655 --> 00:36:22.285
Once we get into the
first bit of summer late

00:36:22.285 --> 00:36:24.875
spring, say like May,
your usually dealing

00:36:24.895 --> 00:36:26.355
with high water okay.

00:36:26.405 --> 00:36:26.535
Yeah.

00:36:26.535 --> 00:36:28.605
So this is, this
would be the time when

00:36:28.665 --> 00:36:30.345
you know, your spey
fishing options do get

00:36:30.345 --> 00:36:31.215
a little bit limited.

00:36:31.215 --> 00:36:33.285
Now there's certain
systems that are Lake

00:36:33.285 --> 00:36:35.835
fed and I don't want to
add pressure to them,

00:36:35.835 --> 00:36:37.515
so I'm not going to put
them to name right now,

00:36:37.545 --> 00:36:39.015
but there's certain
systems that are Lake

00:36:39.015 --> 00:36:42.359
fed that fresh it's
not quite as abrupt.

00:36:43.399 --> 00:36:45.359
And you can often
fish through May.

00:36:46.259 --> 00:36:47.790
June is going to be
the tough one, but then

00:36:47.790 --> 00:36:50.069
you have other rivers
that are quicker to

00:36:50.069 --> 00:36:52.710
recover and the Kitimat
is a good example.

00:36:52.710 --> 00:36:54.210
The Kitimat is a
great river in June

00:36:54.270 --> 00:36:55.379
for Chinook right.

00:36:55.379 --> 00:36:55.479
Okay.

00:36:55.479 --> 00:36:56.809
That's a prime
time to fish it.

00:36:57.359 --> 00:36:59.310
Then we get into July,
now you can fish the

00:36:59.310 --> 00:37:01.740
Skeena for chinook
salmon and  steelhead

00:37:02.390 --> 00:37:05.640
.Lots of, pretty much
any Chinook river is,

00:37:05.975 --> 00:37:08.825
that's open is good in
late June, early July,

00:37:09.275 --> 00:37:11.825
August is prime time
for steelhead migration

00:37:11.825 --> 00:37:13.444
through the Skeena
so that's happening.

00:37:14.075 --> 00:37:15.215
Once we get into
September and

00:37:15.215 --> 00:37:17.255
October, the tributary
start fishing good.

00:37:17.315 --> 00:37:20.495
You know, the Bulkley has
almost half of the Skeena

00:37:20.495 --> 00:37:22.775
steelhead returned in the
summer and it probably

00:37:22.775 --> 00:37:25.310
has at least half the
steelhead anglers.

00:37:25.330 --> 00:37:27.470
So, you know, with
almost a hundred fishable

00:37:27.470 --> 00:37:30.200
miles, the Bulkley is
really easy access and a

00:37:30.200 --> 00:37:32.810
great choice, especially
for a first, you know,

00:37:32.810 --> 00:37:34.700
do it yourself type
steelhead trip, just

00:37:34.700 --> 00:37:36.470
because the access is
so good around Smithers.

00:37:36.470 --> 00:37:36.710
Yeah.

00:37:37.310 --> 00:37:39.230
And you know, the latter
part of the fall, you

00:37:39.230 --> 00:37:41.540
could be back down on
the Fraser system, or

00:37:41.540 --> 00:37:44.029
you could be down on
the Squamish fishing for

00:37:44.029 --> 00:37:46.129
coho and chums, or you
could still be up here,

00:37:46.190 --> 00:37:48.589
fishing for steelhead in
the big Northern coho.

00:37:48.819 --> 00:37:49.100
Wow.

00:37:49.535 --> 00:37:50.885
So yeah, I mean,
it really, it

00:37:50.885 --> 00:37:51.695
goes on and on.

00:37:51.755 --> 00:37:53.825
You don't have to
have an off season

00:37:53.825 --> 00:37:56.075
because our, typically
our climate so mild.

00:37:56.815 --> 00:37:58.645
So here's a question for
you, so every odd year

00:37:58.645 --> 00:38:00.595
in the Lower Mainland,
the pink salmon will

00:38:00.595 --> 00:38:03.115
run up the Fraser
and it's always fun.

00:38:03.115 --> 00:38:06.535
We live in Delta area,
it's real close, easy

00:38:06.535 --> 00:38:09.565
access and people in
Richmond and Delta and

00:38:09.565 --> 00:38:12.865
up the river will just
spin cast and catch

00:38:12.865 --> 00:38:14.575
some pink salmons, put
them in the smoker.

00:38:15.025 --> 00:38:17.335
Would you spey cast for
something like that?

00:38:18.060 --> 00:38:19.470
I've never seen
somebody do that.

00:38:20.520 --> 00:38:20.790
Sure.

00:38:20.930 --> 00:38:22.430
You know, you can
swing flies for pinks.

00:38:22.460 --> 00:38:24.259
In the Squamish
it's very popular.

00:38:24.440 --> 00:38:26.299
So Squamish gets pink
at the same time you

00:38:26.299 --> 00:38:27.890
would get them down
there generally.

00:38:27.919 --> 00:38:28.460
Right, okay.

00:38:28.730 --> 00:38:30.799
And so this would be
typically fishing the

00:38:30.799 --> 00:38:32.779
lower reaches of the
Squamish, the popular

00:38:32.779 --> 00:38:34.609
area would be around
the most of the Mamquam.

00:38:34.669 --> 00:38:35.170
Right, okay.

00:38:35.690 --> 00:38:39.010
And yeah, just swinging
little pink flies, like

00:38:39.010 --> 00:38:41.000
a six, seven weight spey
rod works beautifully.

00:38:41.120 --> 00:38:41.840
But on the Fraser?

00:38:42.340 --> 00:38:42.880
You know, I've done it.

00:38:42.880 --> 00:38:43.810
I've never
actually seen it.

00:38:43.880 --> 00:38:45.350
I've absolutely done
it on the Fraser a

00:38:45.350 --> 00:38:47.370
long time ago, but it
was near Chilliwack.

00:38:47.390 --> 00:38:48.680
I've never fished
down your way on

00:38:48.680 --> 00:38:49.360
the lower river.

00:38:49.790 --> 00:38:50.230
Right.

00:38:50.770 --> 00:38:53.090
I don't know, you know,
what the depth would

00:38:53.090 --> 00:38:55.880
be like, or if there's
gravel bars there or, you

00:38:55.880 --> 00:38:57.860
know, if you'd be trying
to cast from a boat, but

00:38:57.900 --> 00:38:59.440
I imagine it's possible.

00:38:59.440 --> 00:38:59.980
Yeah, I guess so.

00:38:59.980 --> 00:39:01.110
I'm going to try it.

00:39:01.290 --> 00:39:02.390
Yeah, you should.

00:39:02.820 --> 00:39:04.049
You absolutely should.

00:39:04.049 --> 00:39:04.919
Absolutely I will.

00:39:04.919 --> 00:39:06.200
I'll take a picture
of it and I'll put

00:39:06.200 --> 00:39:06.860
it up on the website.

00:39:08.300 --> 00:39:09.190
How about etiquette?

00:39:09.660 --> 00:39:11.480
Like a little bit
about basic etiquette.

00:39:11.630 --> 00:39:14.720
Cause that's one of the
things that as, a getting

00:39:14.720 --> 00:39:17.420
new into any sport can be
intimidating for people.

00:39:17.420 --> 00:39:19.340
Like where do I,
where do I step in?

00:39:19.340 --> 00:39:21.700
Like, what's the right
thing to do and I mean,

00:39:21.860 --> 00:39:24.590
everyone talks about
these fights breaking

00:39:24.590 --> 00:39:27.050
over, out on rivers
that are crowded over

00:39:27.320 --> 00:39:28.340
improper etiquette.

00:39:29.835 --> 00:39:31.125
That's a superb question.

00:39:31.755 --> 00:39:34.935
And it's a complicated
issue because different

00:39:34.935 --> 00:39:37.125
rivers have different
systems, but generally

00:39:37.125 --> 00:39:40.605
speaking, most people
are fishing down the run.

00:39:40.665 --> 00:39:43.065
And what I mean by that
is, if you approach a run

00:39:43.075 --> 00:39:45.465
and there's a big run,
but there's already one

00:39:45.465 --> 00:39:47.660
person fishing it, but
it's a big run there's

00:39:47.660 --> 00:39:48.590
room for more than one.

00:39:49.190 --> 00:39:51.350
The appropriate thing
to do would be to go

00:39:51.350 --> 00:39:52.520
in behind that person.

00:39:52.580 --> 00:39:52.880
Right.

00:39:53.000 --> 00:39:54.680
Now, the actual
appropriate thing to do

00:39:54.680 --> 00:39:56.630
would be to go up and
have a brief conversation

00:39:56.630 --> 00:39:57.060
and say, Hey.

00:39:57.060 --> 00:39:57.310
Right.

00:39:57.310 --> 00:39:59.150
Do you mind if I
hop in behind you?

00:39:59.450 --> 00:40:01.569
And that person would
say, no, go ahead.

00:40:01.590 --> 00:40:04.190
And what's great
about doing that is,

00:40:04.250 --> 00:40:06.259
often there'll be an
exchange of information

00:40:06.259 --> 00:40:07.430
that's going to be
beneficial for you.

00:40:07.460 --> 00:40:09.590
So that that person might
say, Oh, by the way, I

00:40:09.590 --> 00:40:11.670
caught a fish earlier, I
had a bite or I've seen a

00:40:11.670 --> 00:40:13.720
few, you know, at least.

00:40:13.720 --> 00:40:13.890
Right.

00:40:13.890 --> 00:40:15.015
You'll have a better
understanding of

00:40:15.015 --> 00:40:16.005
what's taking place.

00:40:16.555 --> 00:40:18.705
You know at that point
you've identified

00:40:18.705 --> 00:40:20.865
yourself as a decent
human being, and you're

00:40:20.865 --> 00:40:22.365
not trying to wreck this
person's day and you're

00:40:22.365 --> 00:40:24.135
saying, Hey, do you mind
if I fished behind you?

00:40:24.135 --> 00:40:25.275
And they're going to
say, sure, go ahead.

00:40:27.105 --> 00:40:29.175
The wrong move
would be to walk in

00:40:29.175 --> 00:40:31.245
below that person,
meaning downstream.

00:40:31.275 --> 00:40:31.455
Right.

00:40:32.025 --> 00:40:34.004
And if they're trying to
work their way through

00:40:34.004 --> 00:40:35.475
the run, cause a lot
of times when people

00:40:35.475 --> 00:40:38.384
are spey casting,
they'll cast swing,

00:40:38.535 --> 00:40:39.915
take a step, you know,
they'll work their

00:40:39.915 --> 00:40:40.845
way, cover the water.

00:40:41.265 --> 00:40:43.125
And you've just like
made this roadblock

00:40:43.125 --> 00:40:43.855
in front of them.

00:40:43.855 --> 00:40:45.765
And if you're just
gonna stand there,

00:40:45.765 --> 00:40:46.694
man, that's even worse.

00:40:46.694 --> 00:40:48.525
It's bad enough if you
jump in in front of them

00:40:48.525 --> 00:40:49.904
and you're moving, right.

00:40:49.904 --> 00:40:51.795
But if you're going to
stand there then it's,

00:40:52.605 --> 00:40:54.615
but I think a lot of
times when this sort of

00:40:54.615 --> 00:40:58.035
situation happens, not
all, but I think a lot of

00:40:58.035 --> 00:41:01.395
times it's not that the
person's a real jackass

00:41:01.634 --> 00:41:04.004
or that they're doing it
on purpose, I think it's

00:41:04.004 --> 00:41:04.995
just, they don't know.

00:41:05.595 --> 00:41:08.504
And some fisheries,
like I use the

00:41:08.504 --> 00:41:10.334
Vedder in salmon
season as an example.

00:41:10.404 --> 00:41:12.495
It's a crowded river,
people aren't moving

00:41:12.495 --> 00:41:13.154
through the run.

00:41:13.185 --> 00:41:15.225
People just get their
rock and they hang out

00:41:15.225 --> 00:41:17.745
on their rock and they
hope that the fish

00:41:17.745 --> 00:41:18.555
are gonna come by.

00:41:18.800 --> 00:41:21.530
And you know, if you're
bar fishing on a river,

00:41:21.530 --> 00:41:23.760
like the Fraser or the
Skeena, obviously you're

00:41:23.810 --> 00:41:26.030
set up in one spot,
right, you're not moving.

00:41:26.030 --> 00:41:28.250
So it's important to
make that distinction.

00:41:28.250 --> 00:41:29.480
Is this an angler
who's staying in

00:41:29.480 --> 00:41:31.640
one spot, is this an
angler that's moving?

00:41:31.640 --> 00:41:34.160
So back to our initial
river conversation,

00:41:34.460 --> 00:41:35.990
you walked in, there's
a guy fishing, the

00:41:35.990 --> 00:41:36.650
run, that's okay.

00:41:36.650 --> 00:41:38.360
There's lots of space,
hey, how's it going?

00:41:38.900 --> 00:41:39.920
Are you moving through?

00:41:39.920 --> 00:41:41.250
I'm moving through,
okay perfect.

00:41:41.270 --> 00:41:41.390
Okay.

00:41:41.730 --> 00:41:42.960
Do you mind, I'll
hop in behind you?

00:41:43.320 --> 00:41:45.000
Or if the person's
like, no, I'm just, this

00:41:45.000 --> 00:41:46.620
is my spot, I'm just
going to hang out here.

00:41:46.680 --> 00:41:48.300
They might say, you're
welcome to go below me.

00:41:48.300 --> 00:41:49.620
They might say, you're
welcome to go above.

00:41:49.650 --> 00:41:49.980
Right.

00:41:50.040 --> 00:41:52.310
But at least you've had
the conversation right.

00:41:52.470 --> 00:41:53.640
They're not going
to say, Hey, this

00:41:53.640 --> 00:41:54.570
is my run, beat it.

00:41:54.600 --> 00:41:55.230
Right, right.

00:41:55.230 --> 00:41:55.600
Right.

00:41:55.600 --> 00:41:56.640
But you know, at
least you have a

00:41:56.640 --> 00:41:57.610
better understanding.

00:41:58.420 --> 00:41:59.640
And if for some reason
you don't want to

00:41:59.640 --> 00:42:01.530
talk to them, at the
very least, instead of

00:42:01.530 --> 00:42:02.760
hopping in, observe them.

00:42:02.790 --> 00:42:04.650
And if it looks like
they're moving through

00:42:04.650 --> 00:42:08.050
the run quickly, then
by all means, you know

00:42:08.050 --> 00:42:09.880
give them lots of space
and go well above them.

00:42:10.000 --> 00:42:10.640
Just jump in.

00:42:10.730 --> 00:42:11.120
Yeah.

00:42:12.150 --> 00:42:14.360
Angler etiquette is,
it's sort of a funny

00:42:14.360 --> 00:42:16.940
thing because once
again, I think a

00:42:16.940 --> 00:42:19.830
lot of times there's
misunderstandings at play

00:42:19.830 --> 00:42:20.910
when there are problems.

00:42:21.479 --> 00:42:23.459
And it is somewhat
localized, meaning there

00:42:23.459 --> 00:42:26.459
are certain stretches of
river where, you know,

00:42:26.549 --> 00:42:28.770
people just kind of walk
in and do their thing.

00:42:29.189 --> 00:42:33.560
But it's a funny thing
because if you and I were

00:42:33.690 --> 00:42:36.420
fishing just any river.

00:42:36.450 --> 00:42:37.319
How about the
river right here?

00:42:37.319 --> 00:42:37.509
A little.

00:42:37.509 --> 00:42:37.600
Sure.

00:42:37.799 --> 00:42:40.140
Tributary of the Skeena
and we were driving

00:42:40.140 --> 00:42:43.319
along it and we wanted
to fish a spot and

00:42:43.319 --> 00:42:45.359
there was a car parked
there, we would probably

00:42:45.359 --> 00:42:46.350
keep going because.

00:42:46.350 --> 00:42:46.930
Right.

00:42:46.930 --> 00:42:47.640
You don't want
to be around.

00:42:47.980 --> 00:42:50.279
We're not trying to go
and make me, we're just

00:42:50.279 --> 00:42:51.029
going fishing right.

00:42:51.029 --> 00:42:51.129
Right.

00:42:51.640 --> 00:42:53.009
We'll go to a
different spot.

00:42:53.609 --> 00:42:57.299
But as density increases,
as every parking spot

00:42:57.299 --> 00:42:59.399
we go by seems to
have a car, now we're

00:42:59.399 --> 00:43:00.810
like, Oh, well there's
only one there, so

00:43:00.810 --> 00:43:01.680
maybe we'll go there.

00:43:02.399 --> 00:43:04.020
And when it gets really
bad with, Oh, there's

00:43:04.020 --> 00:43:05.850
only five, there was
just so there's still

00:43:05.850 --> 00:43:06.899
probably room for us.

00:43:06.899 --> 00:43:11.175
So you know, when we
talk about regulation

00:43:11.565 --> 00:43:13.865
and I, this ties in
nicely with what we said

00:43:13.865 --> 00:43:16.345
before, about how they've
addressed maintaining

00:43:16.345 --> 00:43:18.725
equality, angling
experience in other

00:43:18.725 --> 00:43:21.425
places by limiting the
number of participants.

00:43:21.455 --> 00:43:23.285
And we don't want to go
down that road in BC.

00:43:23.825 --> 00:43:26.135
You know, we don't
necessarily need a

00:43:26.135 --> 00:43:27.905
law that says, okay,
there's only X amount

00:43:27.905 --> 00:43:29.585
of people allowed
to fish a particular

00:43:29.585 --> 00:43:30.425
stretch of water.

00:43:30.944 --> 00:43:34.095
In a period of time
because most people will

00:43:34.095 --> 00:43:35.775
go, okay, well, this
part is kind of crowded,

00:43:35.775 --> 00:43:37.214
this isn't the experience
I'm looking for.

00:43:37.214 --> 00:43:40.170
I will drive 20 minutes
further, or go to

00:43:40.170 --> 00:43:42.240
a different spot or
I'll get up earlier

00:43:42.240 --> 00:43:43.230
or I'll fish later.

00:43:43.529 --> 00:43:46.920
They will adjust their
own, you know, their

00:43:46.920 --> 00:43:49.620
own day in a way to
avoid the crowds.

00:43:49.860 --> 00:43:51.900
And some people, like I
think some people like

00:43:51.900 --> 00:43:53.940
the crowds, I think some
people will seek out

00:43:53.940 --> 00:43:55.590
places where there's
lots of people fishing.

00:43:55.590 --> 00:43:56.770
Yeah I don't get that.

00:43:56.790 --> 00:43:58.280
Because that must be
a good spot right.

00:43:58.470 --> 00:43:59.860
Oh totally.

00:43:59.890 --> 00:44:01.440
But you know, there
we are, we're driving

00:44:01.440 --> 00:44:02.220
along the river, okay.

00:44:02.220 --> 00:44:03.330
There's not a car
here, perfect,

00:44:03.330 --> 00:44:04.440
we'll go in right.

00:44:04.680 --> 00:44:07.080
So I think that certain
rivers, when they have

00:44:07.080 --> 00:44:08.700
space, when they're
not over, let's say

00:44:08.700 --> 00:44:13.990
oversubscribed, you
know, you have this real

00:44:14.060 --> 00:44:16.520
orderly way that people
conduct themselves,

00:44:16.520 --> 00:44:18.440
where they don't impede
each other's access

00:44:18.440 --> 00:44:20.330
or negatively affect
each other's day.

00:44:20.930 --> 00:44:24.120
And when we find
ourselves in a situation

00:44:24.120 --> 00:44:27.180
where, you know, the
density is such that,

00:44:27.299 --> 00:44:28.890
you know, it's not really
the experience we're

00:44:28.890 --> 00:44:32.160
looking for, it's a great
excuse to go elsewhere.

00:44:32.160 --> 00:44:34.740
And I also find that a
lot of times crowds are

00:44:34.740 --> 00:44:35.609
somewhat reactionary.

00:44:35.609 --> 00:44:38.009
What I mean by that
is if fishing has

00:44:38.009 --> 00:44:39.480
been productive, if
there's been a lot of

00:44:39.480 --> 00:44:43.859
fish caught, following
that period, days,

00:44:43.970 --> 00:44:46.150
or week, whatever,
you'll see an increase

00:44:46.150 --> 00:44:47.259
in people fishing.

00:44:47.560 --> 00:44:47.980
Sure.

00:44:48.009 --> 00:44:49.480
But often the
fishing will then

00:44:49.480 --> 00:44:50.529
slow down right.

00:44:51.070 --> 00:44:53.020
And then people say oh
fishing, then they'll

00:44:53.020 --> 00:44:54.550
stop fishing for a bit
and they'll wait for

00:44:54.550 --> 00:44:57.190
the next push of fish to
come in, but they're not

00:44:57.190 --> 00:44:58.060
out there all the time.

00:44:58.060 --> 00:45:00.525
So the folks that are
out there will reap the

00:45:00.525 --> 00:45:03.615
rewards, so to speak, and
then other people will

00:45:03.615 --> 00:45:05.265
hear that, Oh, there's a
bunch of fish around and

00:45:05.265 --> 00:45:07.035
then they will descend
on the river and by

00:45:07.035 --> 00:45:07.845
then it's kind of over.

00:45:07.845 --> 00:45:10.785
So there's no substitute
for time on the water.

00:45:11.085 --> 00:45:11.865
Just getting out there.

00:45:12.105 --> 00:45:12.345
Yeah.

00:45:12.345 --> 00:45:14.625
And you know, in this
day and age where

00:45:14.685 --> 00:45:17.345
the learning curve is
pretty quick, in the

00:45:17.345 --> 00:45:19.625
sense that you've got
Google Earth, you've

00:45:19.625 --> 00:45:20.945
got message boards.

00:45:20.975 --> 00:45:22.595
You can hit up
the tackle shop.

00:45:23.105 --> 00:45:25.145
It's very easy to
get information

00:45:25.445 --> 00:45:26.345
about where to go.

00:45:26.405 --> 00:45:28.745
So there's no such thing
really, as a secret spot,

00:45:29.255 --> 00:45:30.335
it's all about timing.

00:45:30.815 --> 00:45:33.545
And what I love about the
Skeena and our experience

00:45:33.545 --> 00:45:37.175
out here is, you know,
today, the river's

00:45:37.185 --> 00:45:38.945
still kind of high
for this time of year.

00:45:39.595 --> 00:45:39.755
Okay.

00:45:39.835 --> 00:45:41.615
But looking at our
forecast, it's going

00:45:41.615 --> 00:45:42.215
to be dropping.

00:45:42.215 --> 00:45:45.000
It's going to drop eight,
10 inches a day probably.

00:45:45.450 --> 00:45:48.720
So seven days from
now, the river will

00:45:48.720 --> 00:45:51.000
be, you know, five
feet lower vertically

00:45:51.060 --> 00:45:51.990
than it is today.

00:45:52.319 --> 00:45:53.670
And there'll be
new gravel bars

00:45:53.670 --> 00:45:54.660
and new spots.

00:45:55.170 --> 00:45:57.720
And, you know, existing
spots will change.

00:45:58.080 --> 00:46:01.320
So, you know, from one
day to the next, you

00:46:01.320 --> 00:46:03.120
know, you really have
to be paying attention

00:46:03.120 --> 00:46:04.860
to what's going on
to understand where

00:46:04.860 --> 00:46:05.670
to spend your time.

00:46:05.670 --> 00:46:07.290
Cause a huge river,
you know, you can't

00:46:07.290 --> 00:46:08.130
fish everything.

00:46:08.400 --> 00:46:10.650
So you have to pick
the spots and the

00:46:10.650 --> 00:46:12.270
spots within the
spots that you want to

00:46:12.270 --> 00:46:13.240
concentrate your effort.

00:46:13.240 --> 00:46:16.050
And it's such a dynamic
thing with the water

00:46:16.050 --> 00:46:18.360
level changing so
dramatically here.

00:46:18.450 --> 00:46:20.850
And then also, you
know, fluctuations

00:46:20.850 --> 00:46:23.070
in run timing for
fish, especially how

00:46:23.070 --> 00:46:24.140
it relates to tides.

00:46:24.370 --> 00:46:24.720
Right.

00:46:24.720 --> 00:46:25.010
Yeah.

00:46:25.040 --> 00:46:28.650
You know, it's not quite
as simple, perhaps as a

00:46:28.650 --> 00:46:30.410
smaller river that might
have, you know, this

00:46:30.410 --> 00:46:31.460
is the meat hole and.

00:46:31.460 --> 00:46:31.640
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:46:31.640 --> 00:46:32.750
You know, this
is the spot that

00:46:32.750 --> 00:46:33.710
everyone wants to go.

00:46:33.740 --> 00:46:37.170
On the Skeena that, with
the fish moving through,

00:46:37.640 --> 00:46:39.380
it's really about timing.

00:46:40.130 --> 00:46:40.460
Wow.

00:46:41.600 --> 00:46:45.250
And you know, there's
no substitute for

00:46:45.250 --> 00:46:47.540
confidence, keeping
your fly in the water.

00:46:47.630 --> 00:46:48.570
Just fishing with intent.

00:46:48.570 --> 00:46:48.800
Believing.

00:46:48.800 --> 00:46:48.880
Yeah.

00:46:48.880 --> 00:46:51.520
Just fishing, you know,
making a plan and then

00:46:51.520 --> 00:46:52.330
fishing your plan.

00:46:52.840 --> 00:46:53.740
Well, Brian.

00:46:54.180 --> 00:46:56.100
Thank you very much
for taking the time to

00:46:56.100 --> 00:46:58.470
talk to me and to share
your passion of fishing

00:46:58.470 --> 00:47:00.660
with The Silvercore
Podcast listeners.

00:47:01.290 --> 00:47:01.560
Cool.

00:47:01.560 --> 00:47:02.910
Hey, it's been fun
having you guys here

00:47:02.910 --> 00:47:03.900
and look forward
to doing it again.

00:47:04.140 --> 00:47:04.650
Absolutely.