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Good morning Grid Connections listeners and Happy New Year.

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I'm thrilled to have Johnny Lieberman back on today's episode.

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He's the co-host of the Inevitable podcast, Motor Trend veteran and one of the spiciest
voices in the automotive world.

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In this episode, we talk about EVs and natural disasters sparked by Johnny's firsthand
experiences with the California wildfires.

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We explore the role electric vehicles can play in such emergencies and share insights into
charging challenges, off-road ready EVs,

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and how automakers are stepping up to assist communities in crisis.

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But it's not all heavy.

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Johnny and I geek out over upcoming electric vehicles that we're both excited for,
including off-roadable rigs and designs with new tech reshaping the EV market.

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Whether you're curious about electric vehicles, emerging trends in the auto industry, or
just looking for some candid car talk, this episode has something for everyone.

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If you enjoy today's conversation, help us grow by sharing this episode with someone who's
love it too.

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And don't forget to leave a pause review on our podcast page.

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It makes a world of difference so we can keep bringing you content like this today.

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With that, enjoy.

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Johnny, thanks again for coming onto our podcast.

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just for anyone who might be unfamiliar, who have missed the

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previous episode we did about six months ago.

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If you could just share a little bit about your background and we'll kind of jump into the
topics for today.

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I mean, you know, I'm a god almost almost 20 years and four months.

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I've been doing this professionally writing about cars, talking about cars, making videos
about cars.

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Yeah, the inevitable podcast is a podcast about the future of mobility, which I hate just
the future of cars.

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The E and the V are capitalized get it because you know, we are transitioning away as a
society, whether America likes it or not away from fossil fuels towards electrification.

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of stuff, everything else in your life is electric.

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Why not your car?

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and then I'm also on a podcast called spikes car radio.

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and, if you haven't heard of that one, it's like a comedy car podcast.

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spike Ferris didn't, he is a former writer of Seinfeld among many other things like the
Simpson space goes, the Letterman show.

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And he wrote the soup Nazi episode of, of Seinfeld.

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So he's pretty funny and, yeah, that's, that's what I do.

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but I guess over the last two decades I've driven almost everything and Had a pretty good
time doing it.

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So

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I think that's a great way to summarize it.

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yeah, I think, I guess one is just relevant.

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But two, the reason I'd been wanting to reach out to you anyway to catch up on stuff, but
I unfortunately was seeing all the stuff that was being posted about the LA wildfires in

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general.

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And obviously it seemed like you, especially in a lot of your close friends were
unfortunately being really impacted by it.

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And so one, I just want to kind of catch up and hear kind of more about what that's like
been like.

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But I mean, the first thing, and obviously given the focus of the podcast was just you
were talking about how your friends have been displaced and you're helping charge his

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review at your own home.

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just kind of like what, one, guess, just how are you doing and the experience right now,
but then also just like, what is it like?

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we always hear these horror stories of owning an EV and a natural disaster and you kind of
got to experience it recently.

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Yeah, well, we'll start with we'll start with my buddy Mark.

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So his house burned down as did his charger for his Rivian.

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Burnt down and then also their temporary housing.

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They were lucky enough that his partner's sister-in-law had an empty apartment in
Silverlake so they could live there, but had one parking spot.

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And, you know, if you've been to LA, lots of parking tickets.

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So he was like, A well, first of all, his, his Rivian, it wasn't level three charging.

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Meaning you could level two or level one.

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So level one is a plug in the wall level two is a home fast charger

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Essentially anything AC just having issues with DC fast charging.

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Yep

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couldn't for whatever reason.

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he said, can I stick my truck at your house and charge it?

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And because he has a review in primarily because they own some horses and no one's ever
thought about this, but man, Evie, no gears, tone horses.

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It's great.

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There's no there's no jerking around for the poor horses.

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So they love it.

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So anyways, they evacuated.

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They got their three horses out.

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But, you know,

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like they thought it was just evacuating for the night.

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they're gonna end, it's how do I put this really rare that a place can suddenly take three
horses and leave them there long-term.

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So they're having to move the horses around.

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So anyways, he wanted his truck.

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So I was sitting there and I'm like, all right, this, you know, I lost everything.

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I have a good relationship with Rivian.

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I have a Rivian.

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I call Rivian.

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Hey, my buddy's truck won't DC fast charge won't level three.

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A could you expedite the service because he was, you he put in a ticket for the service B
could you get him a truck so he can move the horses around or, know, I was also thinking

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maybe use my truck, but get to that in a second.

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Um, and they were like, Rivian was awesome.

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They were like, Oh my God, thanks for calling.

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Um, and this was like, I believe Wednesday morning.

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So everything kind of burned down Tuesday night or at least his house burned down Tuesday
night.

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Um, and they're like, we've been trying to think of ways to help, you know, um, uh,

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people do whatever fire victims.

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And they said, absolutely.

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And when he did take it in, they dropped everything they were doing and fix his truck
immediately, which was cool.

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The other thing was based on me saying like, Hey, know, evacuate large animals.

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They put out an internal bulletin.

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I don't think they publicize this, but they said like, Hey, if you're a riving employee
and you want to help grab a truck or an SUV, put a trailer hitch on it and go move a

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horse, you know, or move a whatever.

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Yeah.

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so they did that, which was really cool.

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Also, not to just make this a Rivian ad, but, um, my wife is a legal counsel for a group
called sidewalk project and they, it's a homeless, um, outreach group or help group,

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whatever you want to say.

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Since the fires, lot of like already unhoused people are like even more screwed.

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So they were like, you know, they can't be where they normally are.

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So the sidewalk project has been going around and delivering supplies to, um, these are
people who've already been suffering.

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Anyways, the vehicle they used to do that broke.

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So my wife said, do you think Rivian?

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And I said, I'll ask, probably not.

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And like a day later, she had an SUV and they like it so much that they're gonna buy one
because they've been using their own personal cars and puts a lot of miles on driving

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around LA day after day after day.

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So they're actually, they think it's perfect.

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They're gonna buy one.

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So anyways, horrible.

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It's been, I mean,

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zooming out.

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Yeah, man, the end time suck.

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We were packed and ready to go.

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We were like a half mile.

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So there's evacuation sites and there's evacuation warning.

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So we were like a half mile from both an evac site and an evac warning location.

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So we just sat there and this app called WatchDuty.

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Everyone in LA is using it.

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this is actually a great app and I, unfortunately living in Oregon, we are very familiar
with forest fires the past few years.

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So unfortunately I'm very familiar with everything you're talking about, but actually this
is great.

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We're going to these details because for anyone listening, if you're ever in this sort of
situation, I cannot recommend and watch duty and then also specifically what you're

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talking about.

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I think so many people hear these different fire notice, fire clearance, fire like

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And then there's even the different stages, but I'm sorry to continue.

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And these are just things to people kind of realize, understand that even though it's
like, I'm on fire warning.

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And sometimes that doesn't happen, but just in this case, you can get a quick, wind pick
up and then boom.

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What was a 30 minute kind of delay is nothing.

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Yeah, we had both cars packed.

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I mean, we also learned real quick that in actual, if our house had burned down, we would
have lost everything because we packed all the wrong stuff.

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but watch duty.

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Yeah, we knock on wood.

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Class half full.

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to stay positive about that, but totally.

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Watch duty is a 501 c3 charity.

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So if you have used them or you like them, you can subscribe It's like 25 bucks a year or
you can just make a tax-free donation I'm plugging them because I really leaned on that.

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Yeah, I gave him I gave him some money but it was horrible and then like this next part is
gonna sound crazy, but like I Mean I can probably stop and think of them, but I've lost

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track of the number of people I know

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that lost their homes.

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I'm saying they're my best friends.

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have two very dear friends in Altadena that lost their homes, Mark with the Rivian, my
friend Gene and like, you know, the number of times I couldn't even guesstimate.

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I go over to Mark's house like once a week to smoke a cigar and look at his horses.

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You know, my family were at Gene's.

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had a pool.

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We were there like all the time.

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She has two young kids.

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I have a young kid.

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You know, was just it was like a great backyard kind of house, you know, and it's burned.

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It's it's gone, like gone.

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And every house in their neighborhood is gone.

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The city of Altadena is, it's gone.

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It's not there.

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It's wild.

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And then it's happening in the Palisades.

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my brother-in-law, my brother-in-law and my nephew were evacuated twice from their house.

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Spike, who I do the podcast with, he's not back in his house.

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He's got National Guard sealed off his street.

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They're not letting him in.

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Cause I think they don't have power maybe is the reason why he can't go back.

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But like,

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Yeah, been at his house for a week.

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I was the guy I work with every week, you know, a friend of mine.

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Um, it's, it's just terrible.

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And like, it's better today, although supposedly, even though it looks really nice and
pretty out, like the air is terrible, although it really doesn't look okay.

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But like, I have a satellite photo, uh, from, from Wednesday of the smoke and like my
house was under it.

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Uh, and it was like a demarcation where you can like, you know, a satellite photo, you can
see land and freeways and then you can see smoke.

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was under the smoke.

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And we actually bugged out on Friday just because schools were closed.

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We had wet towels under the doors.

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I don't think it does anything, but whatever.

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A house is like 101 years old now.

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It's pretty drafty.

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So we went out to the desert and that was a nice little eight hour reprieve.

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But I just wanted to be around, help my friends out, and just help out in any way I can.

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My wife, she's helping out.

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Anyways, um, yeah, I've just absolutely horrible.

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I, you know, I've been through not that many, but a couple of natural disasters with the
scale and the scope and the suffering in this one.

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Uh, for the U S at least is, know, it's, it's a Katrina style event where it's like,

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gone, things are gone, you know, and I know this happened up in Northern California and
paradise, uh, and not to diminish that in any way, but just like, you know, I think, I

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think there's like 10,000 structures.

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Remember a structure is a house or a business or a school or church or whatever.

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And like burn down and it happened like within 24 hours.

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It was just total madness, total madness.

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Um, so yeah, it, uh, into

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There's no upside.

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Nothing.

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Yeah, I mean, some people are saying like, it's so nice that like people are coming
together and meeting their neighbors.

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Like, I don't I wish they didn't have to do that.

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Like, it's just it's just flat out.

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The, the reason they have had to is pretty unfortunate.

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Yeah.

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My, uh, my wife actually went to college in Occidental.

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And so she has a lot of friends and lit have lived in quite a bit in that area.

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And, um, and it's kind of interesting because especially just with the fires we've had on
the West coast up and down, I think, and I think those fires you just referenced kind of

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in Northern California, there's what is.

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I don't think fully appreciate by a lot of people is they, when they think forest fires or
wildfires, they do think of kind of more rural remote areas.

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And with just kind of the current state of things, unfortunately, it doesn't, it can be
kind of anywhere.

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You really just need dry conditions.

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And, uh, especially if you get heavy winds involved, it can happen pretty quickly and
sweep through whether it be remote forest or especially when you have really dense houses

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together.

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And, uh, I mean,

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Unfortunately, like you said, your house is a hundred years old and just the way houses
were designed and built have changed so much.

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And some of that does help, but it's just, you get the right conditions and it's going to
go up.

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doesn't really matter where it is.

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And I think that's why so many people are surprised.

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No, no, totally.

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nobody in the car community seems to want to mention it, but like this is climate change.

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This is this is what the scientists said is going to happen.

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You had the hottest year in recorded human history.

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2024 you have the hottest ever recorded ocean temperatures.

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Well, why does that matter?

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Well, when the oceans are hot, they heat the air so the air is hotter.

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You have Los Angeles or Southern California should say is.

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500 % below normal participation.

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0.2 inches by January, whenever the fire started, instead of five, at 500%, you had Santa
Ana winds, and I've lived here most of my life, I was born here.

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Yeah, Santa Ana winds are always strong and hot, but nothing like this.

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These were hurricane strength, 100 mile an hour winds.

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And then you had two years of totally

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abnormal precipitation proceeding this where everything was overgrown.

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And that's also due to climate change.

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So it's just, there's a perfect shit storm.

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Pardon my French.

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like, you know, yeah, nothing, sadly, what would have prevented this was, know, if like
Chevron back in the seventies, when they internally had the studies saying, Hey, you know,

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burning gas seems to like really, it raises the temperature of the earth.

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of the atmosphere, like maybe we should say something instead of burying it for 40 years.

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So anyway, yes, it sucks, but yeah, so it's climate change.

214
00:14:42,692 --> 00:14:46,274
And sadly, you might say, it's a natural thing.

215
00:14:46,274 --> 00:14:53,809
I'd I'd point to the six trillion tons of carbon dioxide mankind has dumped in the
atmosphere since the industrial revolution.

216
00:14:53,809 --> 00:14:55,801
I'd say that's actually the culprit.

217
00:14:55,801 --> 00:14:57,964
Our addiction is also a tool.

218
00:14:57,964 --> 00:15:05,646
I will be the first to push that like climate change and all these things are not getting
enough attention or all of that.

219
00:15:05,646 --> 00:15:09,828
I do think to try and be a little balanced.

220
00:15:09,828 --> 00:15:15,399
Obviously, the big part too is just like, are these individual things that haven't been
seen before?

221
00:15:15,399 --> 00:15:20,411
No, like it's these types of winds have been seen in Santa Ana have low precipit...

222
00:15:20,411 --> 00:15:20,904
this.

223
00:15:20,904 --> 00:15:22,224
As far as I know, honestly.

224
00:15:22,224 --> 00:15:31,592
far as I understand, it was seen like 30 years ago, but what I'm trying to get to that,
that points to your point or kind of backs up your point is like, those are like that

225
00:15:31,592 --> 00:15:34,434
happened, but there was high precipitation this, that year.

226
00:15:34,434 --> 00:15:43,812
You, you, you just get, you get all the, you do get these one-off things and that just
naturally does happen, but the frequency and then also the, the amount of these one-off

227
00:15:43,812 --> 00:15:49,187
things happening together and at that frequency is yeah, that is a thing of climate
change.

228
00:15:49,275 --> 00:15:55,550
is unfortunate and that is just something we have to face and kind of figure out like, how
do we, you're totally right.

229
00:15:55,550 --> 00:15:58,352
We can't go back to the seventies until Chevron did change their mind.

230
00:15:58,352 --> 00:15:59,474
Yeah.

231
00:15:59,474 --> 00:16:07,954
Well, but like, mean, what are the odds of this fire happening three months after, you
know, North Carolina was hit by a tropical storm or hurricane, you know?

232
00:16:07,954 --> 00:16:11,134
And, again, and again, I think it was 1964.

233
00:16:11,134 --> 00:16:21,054
There were Santa Ana winds that were close to this strong, but, like, that's like
sustained not with the, mean, there's 80 to a hundred mile an hour like bursts.

234
00:16:21,054 --> 00:16:25,394
mean, you know, there's, there's a photographer, Oh God, I'm blanking those names.

235
00:16:25,394 --> 00:16:26,922
Supposed to do a project with them.

236
00:16:26,922 --> 00:16:34,705
Come to me in second anyways, but he was not a Dina He's a fire photographer meaning he
puts on a fire suit and a respirator and he goes with the fire department and document

237
00:16:34,705 --> 00:16:48,451
stuff for Wall Street Journal and You he's got this video of this McDonald's like being
hit by this wind gust and it's like it's it's a fire hurricane like like nothing on planet

238
00:16:48,451 --> 00:16:54,074
Earth could have stopped it except for tsunami, know, I mean, there's just nothing could
have stopped it and

239
00:16:54,520 --> 00:16:56,033
Yeah, just horrible.

240
00:16:56,076 --> 00:16:58,403
I'm sorry to get so educated about it.

241
00:16:58,403 --> 00:17:03,343
think especially with where you are in this, I think everything you're saying is 100 %
valid.

242
00:17:03,383 --> 00:17:09,563
just, my, yeah, yeah, yeah.

243
00:17:09,723 --> 00:17:20,383
No, your Instagram feed is, but specifically not what you post, but the comments are
almost like great reasons why I avoid social media.

244
00:17:20,383 --> 00:17:22,405
Good or bad, yeah.

245
00:17:22,405 --> 00:17:22,616
heard it.

246
00:17:22,616 --> 00:17:32,744
But I mean, again, it's just like, know, again, yes, the Pacific Palisades is part of Los
Angeles, the city, but like Altadena is not, know, Karen Bass is not the mayor of

247
00:17:32,744 --> 00:17:33,945
Altadena.

248
00:17:33,985 --> 00:17:41,471
You know, there's no reservoir that was like one reservoir out of a bunch that was, it's
like, you're just picking and choosing.

249
00:17:41,471 --> 00:17:50,388
Like this was like, you know, disaster, catastrophe caused by climate change, you know,
and again, you know, like,

250
00:17:50,603 --> 00:17:58,636
The scientists have been predicting this for years and people just ignore them because
they you know whatever reason

251
00:17:58,823 --> 00:18:00,923
Yeah, and I agree with you 100%.

252
00:18:00,923 --> 00:18:09,149
I think my only thing is, and it's so unfortunate, like what has happened, what has, and
will unfortunately continue to happen.

253
00:18:09,149 --> 00:18:18,294
I think my, the thing that troubles me is I see people make that argument and then they
kind of just throw up their hands in the air like, then I guess we can't do anything.

254
00:18:18,294 --> 00:18:27,819
And that's where I kind of like to say that there are things, it's an uphill battle, yes,
but there are things we can be doing to be proactive, to minimize.

255
00:18:27,919 --> 00:18:28,277
Yeah.

256
00:18:28,277 --> 00:18:34,710
these things are going to happen, we can be reactive, but we can also be proactive to
really help with this.

257
00:18:34,931 --> 00:18:40,453
just personally, think wildfires are just something, and it's really unfortunate with this
incident.

258
00:18:40,614 --> 00:18:45,957
Wildfires personally are just something I've become really personally affected by.

259
00:18:45,957 --> 00:18:57,213
But too, I really just want to see what we can do because there's so much beautiful
landscape that unfortunately, and obviously lives lost, that we need to start coming out

260
00:18:57,213 --> 00:18:58,163
with a better

261
00:18:58,163 --> 00:19:05,870
We have to be, there, thinker pointing, sure, that is, there is some of that to be done,
but it, that's not going to solve the problem.

262
00:19:05,870 --> 00:19:08,432
We, we just, we, we have to be realistic and move forward.

263
00:19:08,432 --> 00:19:12,383
And so that is my little soap box about wildfires and stuff.

264
00:19:12,383 --> 00:19:19,165
greening greening power consumption, you know, worldwide is the best thing we can do to
curb it.

265
00:19:19,165 --> 00:19:23,946
like, know, you know, electric vehicles are totally helping with that.

266
00:19:26,007 --> 00:19:35,539
It just even like if you think about like how oil is moved around, right, it's put on
giant tankers and they spill sometimes in the Gulf of Mexico or near Alaska.

267
00:19:35,539 --> 00:19:36,970
We were familiar with that.

268
00:19:36,970 --> 00:19:38,884
Well, those ships burn this

269
00:19:38,884 --> 00:19:47,883
crap called bunker oil or bunker fuel, is just, it's the stuff that's so grody and
noxious, you can't even make gasoline or oil or Legos out of it.

270
00:19:47,883 --> 00:19:49,684
And so that's what they burn.

271
00:19:49,684 --> 00:19:50,826
It's horrible.

272
00:19:50,826 --> 00:19:55,540
as like, you know, you stop shipping oil because the cars are running on electricity.

273
00:19:55,540 --> 00:19:57,102
Well, then you stop burning bunker fuel.

274
00:19:57,102 --> 00:19:59,085
it just keeps adding up.

275
00:19:59,085 --> 00:19:59,316
right.

276
00:19:59,316 --> 00:20:03,036
And that's maybe snowball isn't the right term when you sound about global warming.

277
00:20:03,036 --> 00:20:07,897
But it but it is but it is that sort of experience where it's yeah.

278
00:20:08,351 --> 00:20:13,436
the other thing is like, know, EVs get greener the more you drive them.

279
00:20:13,436 --> 00:20:16,798
Whereas like, you know, gasoline powered cars do not.

280
00:20:16,798 --> 00:20:20,561
They stay the same level of filthy their entire lives.

281
00:20:21,122 --> 00:20:28,629
We had a guy on the inevitable from the, basically the California power grid, it's called
Cal ISO, or ISO Cal, not Cal ISO.

282
00:20:28,629 --> 00:20:30,543
And he was just explaining that like,

283
00:20:30,543 --> 00:20:31,353
sorry to cut you off there.

284
00:20:31,353 --> 00:20:39,618
It's so funny that one, I think this is what's so great about your podcast is that you
have conversations like this and you even know what that is.

285
00:20:39,618 --> 00:20:48,163
Whereas like the traditional automotive industry would have no idea what you're talking
about when you talk about Cal ISO, but especially with like people on our podcast, how we

286
00:20:48,163 --> 00:20:55,389
can't talk about, obviously automotive and electric vehicles are a big portion of it, but
it's just like combining how this isn't, this isn't the same as

287
00:20:55,389 --> 00:21:00,703
having a vehicle from a manufacturer and then you go to a gas station with this evolution
to EVs.

288
00:21:00,703 --> 00:21:08,869
Like all of these things are a platform and really intertwined to make, are kind of the
sum is greater than these parts that you have to deal with.

289
00:21:08,869 --> 00:21:10,050
But I'm sorry.

290
00:21:10,050 --> 00:21:10,439
Yeah.

291
00:21:10,439 --> 00:21:10,949
no, no, no.

292
00:21:10,949 --> 00:21:21,058
And he was just explaining that, you know, the, the, the grid is, you know, being more and
more decarbonized and a big part of that is actually EV adoption.

293
00:21:21,058 --> 00:21:31,937
And it may not be the reason people think, but because EVs have lowered the price of a
battery so much and because a used EV battery can be used as a storage device.

294
00:21:31,937 --> 00:21:33,198
Well, okay.

295
00:21:33,198 --> 00:21:34,308
Let's say, you know what?

296
00:21:34,308 --> 00:21:34,849
I'll look it up.

297
00:21:34,849 --> 00:21:36,130
I got this app on my phone.

298
00:21:36,130 --> 00:21:38,682
It's called ISO and,

299
00:21:38,746 --> 00:21:42,326
It's great because I can tell you like right now I'll give you some actual numbers.

300
00:21:42,346 --> 00:21:43,486
Okay, hang on a second.

301
00:21:43,486 --> 00:21:45,266
It's nice sunny day today.

302
00:21:45,306 --> 00:21:47,586
All right, ISO today is California grid.

303
00:21:47,666 --> 00:21:55,966
currently we are demanding the state of California 25.197 megawatts of electricity.

304
00:21:56,706 --> 00:22:02,926
And we have the capacity to basically double that 49,573 megawatts.

305
00:22:02,926 --> 00:22:06,066
Okay, well how much of that is renewable at the moment?

306
00:22:06,806 --> 00:22:07,286
72%.

307
00:22:07,286 --> 00:22:08,626
Sun goes down.

308
00:22:08,814 --> 00:22:10,534
Well, you wouldn't be able to have renewables.

309
00:22:10,534 --> 00:22:11,846
You wouldn't at least solar.

310
00:22:11,846 --> 00:22:13,017
Hey, wait a second.

311
00:22:13,017 --> 00:22:15,158
If you have battery storage.

312
00:22:15,319 --> 00:22:16,279
Well, great.

313
00:22:16,279 --> 00:22:20,148
All the electricity, because right now, again, the capacity is 49,000.

314
00:22:20,148 --> 00:22:26,666
We're using 29,000 megawatts that we can store that and then you deploy it at night.

315
00:22:27,307 --> 00:22:38,156
and, you know, and soon it's, it's, it's gonna, there's a, we had another company on
called mobility house and, basically sitting at home.

316
00:22:38,156 --> 00:22:40,727
A lot of work from home now, or even at work you can do this.

317
00:22:40,727 --> 00:22:52,090
EVs plugged in and instead of charging, maybe you can take some of the solar load that's
being generated, store it in your EV for a while and they'll pay you a storage fee.

318
00:22:52,090 --> 00:22:57,281
And then when they want it out, they'll take it out and deploy it at night for heaters or
lights or whatever.

319
00:22:57,281 --> 00:22:59,272
And they'll pay you a little bit too.

320
00:22:59,512 --> 00:23:03,413
So EVs actually help make the grid greener.

321
00:23:05,491 --> 00:23:07,732
I mean, I think I'd be curious about this.

322
00:23:07,732 --> 00:23:12,453
I think you're at the forefront, like I said, with your Instagram posts of always kind of
fighting these arguments.

323
00:23:12,453 --> 00:23:19,555
But one of the ones I've talked about lately is like, you know, let's, let's ignore the
climate change part of it.

324
00:23:19,555 --> 00:23:19,885
Sure.

325
00:23:19,885 --> 00:23:23,016
There there's a lot of, there's a lot of good data that kind of proves that.

326
00:23:23,016 --> 00:23:30,458
you, yeah, I'm just saying like when you're having an argument with something that you can
literally just say like, okay, let's say it's not making the earth warmer.

327
00:23:30,458 --> 00:23:31,258
Sure.

328
00:23:31,258 --> 00:23:35,503
But you can go to LA, you can go to so many great different cities.

329
00:23:35,503 --> 00:23:37,204
and look at the sunset.

330
00:23:37,264 --> 00:23:42,068
The sunset's beautiful, but you don't have to really, you kind of miss something.

331
00:23:42,729 --> 00:23:44,660
The one upside is the beautiful sunsets.

332
00:23:44,660 --> 00:23:47,532
The downside is the massive amounts of smog.

333
00:23:47,672 --> 00:23:50,775
And it becomes, you're right, you're right.

334
00:23:50,775 --> 00:23:55,859
And I think there's an element, like my background's in physics, and so I'm big on the
science of it.

335
00:23:55,859 --> 00:23:57,760
It's easy to kind of understand that.

336
00:23:57,760 --> 00:24:01,806
But when you're talking about the atmosphere and stuff, it's really hard for a lot of
people to see it.

337
00:24:01,806 --> 00:24:02,376
Totally.

338
00:24:02,376 --> 00:24:08,374
you look at, you see a sunset in LA and you're like, okay, you can see the smog, you can
see that difference.

339
00:24:08,374 --> 00:24:10,469
That is hard, that you can't ignore.

340
00:24:10,639 --> 00:24:15,780
a wonderful guest on, believe her name was, boy, I'm so bad at names, Chase.

341
00:24:16,041 --> 00:24:17,511
I think her name was Dr.

342
00:24:17,511 --> 00:24:18,982
Christine something.

343
00:24:18,982 --> 00:24:24,083
Anyhow, she was a climate scientist, PhD in the atmosphere.

344
00:24:24,263 --> 00:24:32,746
And she had this really interesting point she brought up that like when COVID shut down
the world, but shut down LA specifically.

345
00:24:32,750 --> 00:24:38,813
They have satellites and these satellites, measure like, know, noxious particles in the
air.

346
00:24:38,813 --> 00:24:46,717
And for like three days when no one was driving for the first time ever, they were gone
over LA instead of being this big yellow mush over the city.

347
00:24:46,717 --> 00:24:49,138
It was clear there were none.

348
00:24:49,939 --> 00:24:55,871
And yeah, it lasted three days, but still it was, it shows, it shows what's possible.

349
00:24:55,871 --> 00:24:59,571
And I think that's a great example of kind of what I like to focus on.

350
00:24:59,571 --> 00:25:08,491
What was so surprising about that was not only did it kind of show what everyone expected
to happen, everyone was kind of surprised by how quickly it happened.

351
00:25:08,891 --> 00:25:09,998
And so...

352
00:25:09,998 --> 00:25:11,388
Yeah, that's the hope.

353
00:25:11,388 --> 00:25:18,252
I mean, I keep reading these things and I'm sure, you sound like you have a much better
science background than I do, but like climate scientists are saying there's like nine

354
00:25:18,252 --> 00:25:29,817
barriers that hold off the apocalypse and we've eclipsed six of them and we're about to go
through the seventh, you know, like acidification of the ocean, ocean heat, percentage of

355
00:25:29,817 --> 00:25:33,349
Celsius, degrees Celsius, the average temperature rises a year.

356
00:25:33,349 --> 00:25:35,490
forget the others, but like...

357
00:25:35,928 --> 00:25:37,279
We can stop it.

358
00:25:37,279 --> 00:25:39,980
We do actually have it within our control.

359
00:25:39,980 --> 00:25:42,141
would take like effort.

360
00:25:42,141 --> 00:25:44,282
It might take a little inconvenience.

361
00:25:44,282 --> 00:25:51,285
And I always go back to the, you know, there's a great Dead Kennedys album, you know, give
me convenience or give me death.

362
00:25:51,565 --> 00:25:52,836
People are choosing death.

363
00:25:52,836 --> 00:26:01,590
It's a slow death, you know, unless you're in one of the houses that burned down or one of
the houses that got washed away in North Carolina in Asheville, but it's death.

364
00:26:02,189 --> 00:26:08,350
And, know, again, George Carlin made this point a zillion years ago, but like, it's not
that we're saving the earth.

365
00:26:08,350 --> 00:26:10,050
It's we're saving the earth for humans.

366
00:26:10,050 --> 00:26:14,830
The earth will still be here after the dinosaurs went extinct 70 million years ago.

367
00:26:14,830 --> 00:26:16,630
The earth was here for 70 million years.

368
00:26:16,630 --> 00:26:17,870
It doesn't care about us.

369
00:26:17,870 --> 00:26:21,150
know, that everything in this universe is trying to kill us.

370
00:26:21,150 --> 00:26:28,230
You know, if it's not like, uh, you know, a fusion reaction, 93 million miles away, it's
like, you know, zero degrees Kelvin.

371
00:26:28,230 --> 00:26:29,170
There's no air.

372
00:26:29,170 --> 00:26:29,910
There's no this.

373
00:26:29,910 --> 00:26:30,970
We have this.

374
00:26:30,970 --> 00:26:33,191
one inhabitable place.

375
00:26:33,191 --> 00:26:33,721
That's it.

376
00:26:33,721 --> 00:26:34,571
That's all we got.

377
00:26:34,571 --> 00:26:37,552
don't care about terraforming Mars or all this other nonsense.

378
00:26:37,552 --> 00:26:38,792
We got earth.

379
00:26:39,352 --> 00:26:41,393
and yeah.

380
00:26:43,053 --> 00:26:43,714
Yeah.

381
00:26:43,714 --> 00:26:45,484
mean, sure.

382
00:26:45,484 --> 00:26:47,354
Right.

383
00:26:49,755 --> 00:26:50,365
Right.

384
00:26:50,365 --> 00:26:50,685
Right.

385
00:26:50,685 --> 00:26:50,985
Right.

386
00:26:50,985 --> 00:26:51,646
Yeah, exactly.

387
00:26:51,646 --> 00:26:52,686
Yeah.

388
00:26:52,686 --> 00:26:59,758
so anyways, yeah, not to be, know, credit turnburg, but like, Jesus, man, we're shit's
bad.

389
00:26:59,818 --> 00:27:00,598
So

390
00:27:01,452 --> 00:27:05,363
And again, I've had a very rough week of, mean, just a rough week.

391
00:27:06,359 --> 00:27:18,994
Well, and I'm sorry, and I hope this doesn't push it further, I'd be curious with, I mean,
personally, when I've driven through LA recently with an EV, DC fast charging in LA, LA

392
00:27:18,994 --> 00:27:20,525
air is pretty bad.

393
00:27:21,565 --> 00:27:33,450
Just as far as like, and I think it is changing, be wrong, but it is, I think it's one of,
like, if you look at the whole US, it's probably one of the worst areas, just with like

394
00:27:33,930 --> 00:27:35,687
usage and that stuff, which

395
00:27:35,687 --> 00:27:37,768
It's like a good, bad problem to have.

396
00:27:37,768 --> 00:27:41,490
And it's one of those scaling things that will eventually change and more of a short-term
problem.

397
00:27:41,490 --> 00:27:53,377
But I'm just kind of curious with, with the recent fires and that stuff, if there's been
any talk or what your takeaway has been with just like, you really do need to have AC

398
00:27:53,377 --> 00:27:54,277
charging even more.

399
00:27:54,277 --> 00:27:58,039
So, as far as that reliability and access to it.

400
00:27:58,264 --> 00:27:58,784
Yeah.

401
00:27:58,784 --> 00:28:03,278
mean, you know, I was mentioning my, my wife, no, no, no, no, no, no.

402
00:28:03,278 --> 00:28:08,062
was saying, I no, I saying my wife's, homeless advocacy group.

403
00:28:08,062 --> 00:28:14,508
you know, they want, they're interested in buying a Rivian, but I said to them, said, look
where you parked this vehicle, is there a charger?

404
00:28:14,508 --> 00:28:21,614
Cause if there's not get something else, because if you can't charge it home and you know,
this is, this is, it's a real problem.

405
00:28:21,614 --> 00:28:26,318
know, the, only out I've seen is in Norway where

406
00:28:26,318 --> 00:28:31,680
January 1st this year, they've outlawed the sale of internal combustion vehicles.

407
00:28:31,680 --> 00:28:44,193
So somehow this very Northern cold country with extremely long drives between towns,
because if you know Norway is longer than Europe, the rest of Europe, I should say, they

408
00:28:44,193 --> 00:28:45,504
can get by with EVs.

409
00:28:45,504 --> 00:28:53,846
And when I was there last March, February, March, and it's cold as hell and silent because
everyone's driving an EV.

410
00:28:54,318 --> 00:29:05,833
A friend of mine picked me up from the airport, drove me home in his Model 3, Tesla Model
3, got into his apartment garage and pulled a cable out of his car and plugged into a box

411
00:29:05,833 --> 00:29:06,843
on the wall.

412
00:29:07,103 --> 00:29:08,764
So they went and did that in Norway.

413
00:29:08,764 --> 00:29:11,845
That took some political will, took some money.

414
00:29:12,385 --> 00:29:24,164
think, know, and Gavin Newsom, if you're listening, you got to pass a law, at least, you
know, it should be nationwide, but in California, just like you have to have heat.

415
00:29:24,164 --> 00:29:28,916
You have to have a way for people to charge their electric vehicles if you're going to
rent them an apartment.

416
00:29:29,196 --> 00:29:34,638
And you're doing it for the greater good of the society, not the greater good of the EV
owner.

417
00:29:34,638 --> 00:29:39,940
because without that, like I know so many people that want an EV.

418
00:29:40,420 --> 00:29:44,462
But to your point, and it's not that there aren't chargers in LA, it's that they're full.

419
00:29:44,462 --> 00:29:45,958
Everyone's got an EV.

420
00:29:46,137 --> 00:29:48,950
so much of it is, one, there's two parts.

421
00:29:48,950 --> 00:29:54,705
One, a large part of it is like Uber drivers and other kind of ride share drivers who are
taking up the space.

422
00:29:54,866 --> 00:29:56,122
And two,

423
00:29:56,122 --> 00:29:57,353
why Uber drivers?

424
00:29:57,353 --> 00:29:59,824
Well, it's cheaper.

425
00:30:01,685 --> 00:30:07,267
It's cheaper to run an EV, even paying level three prices, which used to be cheap.

426
00:30:07,267 --> 00:30:09,015
Now it's like 57 cents a kilowatt.

427
00:30:09,015 --> 00:30:10,248
So it's not that cheap.

428
00:30:10,248 --> 00:30:12,650
Still half the price of gasoline, half the price.

429
00:30:12,650 --> 00:30:19,572
And in LA, it's probably like a third of the price, because we have outlandishly expensive
gas for no good reason.

430
00:30:19,993 --> 00:30:23,599
But yeah, so that's why, but I'm sorry, go ahead.

431
00:30:23,599 --> 00:30:29,903
Well, I mean, it speaks to that too, where it's one, you have the right to drivers who are
saving money by going electric.

432
00:30:29,903 --> 00:30:31,944
And sometimes there's incentives to do that.

433
00:30:31,944 --> 00:30:34,775
But second, it's exactly to what you're speaking of.

434
00:30:34,775 --> 00:30:40,258
They usually don't always have a great place to charge AC charge overnight.

435
00:30:40,258 --> 00:30:42,189
And so sometimes they have to do that.

436
00:30:42,590 --> 00:30:45,351
And I think there's two parts to this one.

437
00:30:45,471 --> 00:30:50,994
If you look at actual taxis that run combustion, they have, there are commercial fueling
station.

438
00:30:50,994 --> 00:30:52,479
And so I do think part of this is

439
00:30:52,479 --> 00:30:56,559
There actually needs to be commercial EV charging to kind of solve some of this problem.

440
00:30:56,559 --> 00:31:01,679
And a lot of it would go away overnight, but yeah, it is a growing pain.

441
00:31:01,679 --> 00:31:04,159
It's like a good thing that things are going this direction.

442
00:31:04,159 --> 00:31:09,979
But even as myself, I I'm sure you're kind of the same way I drive way more than most
people I know.

443
00:31:10,579 --> 00:31:15,959
And most people I know who are kind of kind of pushed back or complained about the idea of
an EV.

444
00:31:15,959 --> 00:31:18,459
One, they own their own house so they could charge at home.

445
00:31:18,459 --> 00:31:21,063
And then two, in everything I've talked to them about.

446
00:31:21,063 --> 00:31:24,664
Anytime they have to drive more than like 300 miles, they end up just flying anyway.

447
00:31:24,664 --> 00:31:34,707
And so like a lot of those issues do go away, but we there, there have been some pretty
cool, and I think it speaks to your idea of like, what we're seeing in Norway with just

448
00:31:34,707 --> 00:31:44,290
like making the infrastructure easier and simpler for apartments and other kinds of
multifamily living situations to, make you charging that much easier at home.

449
00:31:44,290 --> 00:31:46,231
So you don't have to deal with DC fast charging.

450
00:31:46,231 --> 00:31:48,583
And that's, that's, think, I think that's long-term.

451
00:31:48,583 --> 00:31:49,713
That's the key.

452
00:31:50,190 --> 00:31:51,490
I'll just say one more thing.

453
00:31:51,490 --> 00:31:59,901
And again, this is a small anecdotal thing, but, you know, we woke up Wednesday morning.

454
00:31:59,901 --> 00:32:03,504
the fires started really Tuesday evening, Wednesday morning.

455
00:32:03,504 --> 00:32:08,578
We just, my wife and I woke up at like, I don't know, four in the morning, something like
that.

456
00:32:08,578 --> 00:32:11,529
We just smelled like a campfire and,

457
00:32:12,250 --> 00:32:15,950
we had plugged in the Rivian and we'd set it to 70%.

458
00:32:15,950 --> 00:32:22,950
And I'm sitting there going like, boy, you know, at that point, we weren't even close to
an evacuation zone.

459
00:32:22,950 --> 00:32:25,910
And I'm like, you know what, maybe we should charge this thing up to 90%.

460
00:32:25,910 --> 00:32:32,530
And so in bed from my phone, because it was plugged into my house, just cranked it up to,
you know, have more range.

461
00:32:32,530 --> 00:32:35,770
Now get 70 % on that car is 250 miles.

462
00:32:35,930 --> 00:32:41,830
you know, if your disaster is going on for longer than 250 miles, like, that's actually
the end of the world.

463
00:32:41,830 --> 00:32:42,354
So

464
00:32:42,864 --> 00:32:45,027
That's yeah, that's that's a much bigger issue.

465
00:32:45,027 --> 00:32:50,454
That's pretty much as short of the Sun turning off Yeah But no, mean

466
00:32:50,454 --> 00:32:51,254
to go through a gas tank.

467
00:32:51,254 --> 00:32:59,534
No, my other car is gasoline and I was sitting there while I'm cranking up the Rivian
thinking like, oh shit, that's like below half a tank.

468
00:32:59,534 --> 00:33:01,905
Ugh, you know, so, you know.

469
00:33:01,905 --> 00:33:07,210
and so is it you have the riveting and the Toyota still or yeah

470
00:33:07,210 --> 00:33:11,610
I have a 914 on paper, but yeah, have a Giro Corolla drives.

471
00:33:11,610 --> 00:33:12,950
It's in my position.

472
00:33:13,490 --> 00:33:14,050
Yeah.

473
00:33:14,050 --> 00:33:14,660
Yeah.

474
00:33:14,660 --> 00:33:17,663
some of the updates you've made to that are definitely pretty sweet.

475
00:33:17,663 --> 00:33:19,995
guess that

476
00:33:19,995 --> 00:33:22,566
before anyone says it, I'm a giant hypocrite.

477
00:33:22,566 --> 00:33:23,317
I get it.

478
00:33:23,317 --> 00:33:27,567
I'm just like, we remember I was a couple of years ago.

479
00:33:27,567 --> 00:33:33,485
I was at the first Miami F1 race and was Sebastian, Sebastian Vettel's last year.

480
00:33:33,645 --> 00:33:43,062
And, we went to go talk to him and all he wanted to talk about was how there won't be a
Miami rice race soon because the ice caps are melting and this part of Florida will be

481
00:33:43,062 --> 00:33:44,153
underwater.

482
00:33:44,153 --> 00:33:45,754
And so the first thing we said to him was like,

483
00:33:45,754 --> 00:33:46,894
Isn't that hypocritical?

484
00:33:46,894 --> 00:33:49,014
Like you're racing these internal combustion cars.

485
00:33:49,014 --> 00:33:53,894
Worse than that, you're 747 loaded with hundreds of people.

486
00:33:53,894 --> 00:33:54,574
Yeah.

487
00:33:54,574 --> 00:33:54,934
Yeah.

488
00:33:54,934 --> 00:33:55,914
And he's like, oh yeah.

489
00:33:55,914 --> 00:33:56,694
He's like, I'm a hypocrite.

490
00:33:56,694 --> 00:33:57,414
A hundred percent.

491
00:33:57,414 --> 00:33:57,894
I'm a hypocrite.

492
00:33:57,894 --> 00:33:59,714
So everyone out there, I'm a hypocrite.

493
00:33:59,714 --> 00:34:00,574
I'm not perfect.

494
00:34:00,574 --> 00:34:02,274
Sorry to disappoint you.

495
00:34:02,274 --> 00:34:06,834
Um, but my little three cylinder, uh, car, yes, it burns gasoline.

496
00:34:07,214 --> 00:34:09,594
And I violated the warranty.

497
00:34:09,594 --> 00:34:11,274
can't even tell you how many times.

498
00:34:11,848 --> 00:34:13,289
But even then, like, think about that.

499
00:34:13,289 --> 00:34:17,534
The fact that it's a three cylinder little sports car verse.

500
00:34:17,534 --> 00:34:20,056
And I mean, there's there's definitely some asterisks to that.

501
00:34:20,056 --> 00:34:21,137
But in the.

502
00:34:22,059 --> 00:34:22,679
Yeah.

503
00:34:22,679 --> 00:34:23,501
very clean.

504
00:34:23,501 --> 00:34:28,624
I don't think my car is now in its current form is that clean.

505
00:34:28,624 --> 00:34:29,606
But I know.

506
00:34:29,606 --> 00:34:30,406
should...

507
00:34:31,047 --> 00:34:31,967
Yeah.

508
00:34:32,689 --> 00:34:33,970
Yeah.

509
00:34:33,970 --> 00:34:34,253
Yeah.

510
00:34:34,253 --> 00:34:46,067
reality, though, like even just go back 20 years, 15 years even, like what you could
unlock and do to that thing even then, especially if you're going to erase it or take it

511
00:34:46,067 --> 00:34:50,499
out on the track is still like leagues ahead of what.

512
00:34:50,499 --> 00:34:50,973
Yeah.

513
00:34:50,973 --> 00:34:51,603
just wild.

514
00:34:51,603 --> 00:34:51,963
Yeah.

515
00:34:51,963 --> 00:35:04,910
mean, you know, the, what I'm doing right now is there's a company out of England called,
I believe it's eco tech, but ECU tune, sorry, ECU tech, ECU space T E K and they're,

516
00:35:04,910 --> 00:35:07,382
they're a tuning company and they make this really cool thing.

517
00:35:07,382 --> 00:35:14,078
It's an app on your phone and, you plug in a little wireless dude into your OBD two port.

518
00:35:14,078 --> 00:35:19,234
I don't know why I always say, DB two, whatever that port, you know, we plug it in next to
your phone.

519
00:35:19,234 --> 00:35:27,096
And then a garage or, you know, they can send you, they can like, you know, get a hold of
your data logs, look at it, send you a file.

520
00:35:27,376 --> 00:35:29,227
Custom to your car.

521
00:35:29,817 --> 00:35:33,686
and then you, you upload it and, you just start tuning in.

522
00:35:33,686 --> 00:35:42,320
So, so what I've been doing is, actually after we're done, I'm to go do the 11th, tune and
then do a little data logging session with it.

523
00:35:42,320 --> 00:35:47,372
But, like, yeah, basically I get a new file.

524
00:35:47,372 --> 00:35:49,146
I download it, drive it around.

525
00:35:49,146 --> 00:36:00,907
And we look at different things like, okay, top end horsepower, like six to 7,000, that
felt strong, but like 2,400 to 4,000 was literally dead.

526
00:36:00,907 --> 00:36:02,999
okay, make some changes.

527
00:36:02,999 --> 00:36:06,842
Okay, that felt strong, but then it cuts out, whatever, getting this error message.

528
00:36:06,842 --> 00:36:08,944
And you can just fight through all that.

529
00:36:11,046 --> 00:36:14,889
I would say right now, and I've done, the reason,

530
00:36:15,442 --> 00:36:20,687
One of the many reasons I've gone with ECU tech is because my car has been physically
modified.

531
00:36:21,388 --> 00:36:28,826
So I've got a new intake by eVenturi, which is kind of the gold standard for aftermarket
intakes.

532
00:36:28,826 --> 00:36:30,572
It's just giant like.

533
00:36:30,572 --> 00:36:33,500
the photos you post of it are...

534
00:36:33,500 --> 00:36:34,421
Yeah.

535
00:36:35,164 --> 00:36:36,157
Especially on that car.

536
00:36:36,157 --> 00:36:37,649
It just looks so...

537
00:36:38,212 --> 00:36:39,193
Yeah,

538
00:36:39,242 --> 00:36:43,442
Yeah, it's literally as wide as the three cylinder engine block.

539
00:36:43,442 --> 00:36:46,242
And when I say literally, I know what that word means.

540
00:36:46,702 --> 00:36:48,122
So it's got a big cold air intake.

541
00:36:48,122 --> 00:36:58,142
It's got a Jackson Racing radiator, intercooler, new intercooler and a separate oil cooler
which is actually now on its own channel.

542
00:36:58,142 --> 00:37:01,622
So factory, the cooling,

543
00:37:02,266 --> 00:37:06,166
the radiator and the oil cooler use the same fluid.

544
00:37:06,186 --> 00:37:09,506
So what this does by breaking it out, it's just cooling the oil.

545
00:37:09,506 --> 00:37:12,566
So now it's just air to air cooling or air to oil.

546
00:37:12,566 --> 00:37:13,206
I don't know, whatever.

547
00:37:13,206 --> 00:37:16,346
not on the radiator, but it puts the radiator on its own channel.

548
00:37:16,346 --> 00:37:18,406
It's more efficient, does lower the temps.

549
00:37:18,406 --> 00:37:20,726
And I've seen that.

550
00:37:21,046 --> 00:37:26,886
then, yeah, know, look, it adds costs and that's why it didn't come from the factory.

551
00:37:27,006 --> 00:37:29,686
And then it requires more oil.

552
00:37:29,686 --> 00:37:31,130
So it probably adds, you

553
00:37:31,130 --> 00:37:32,710
10 pounds of the car or something.

554
00:37:32,710 --> 00:37:37,573
And then it's got a Fi exhaust, which is just like a better looking, better sounding.

555
00:37:37,794 --> 00:37:39,114
Maybe it does something exhaust.

556
00:37:39,114 --> 00:37:39,775
I don't know.

557
00:37:39,775 --> 00:37:45,417
But anyway, there's all long way of saying stock 300 horsepower.

558
00:37:45,558 --> 00:37:46,151
What's that?

559
00:37:46,151 --> 00:37:49,890
I said long story of saying you're a hypocrite is what is that what we're coming back to?

560
00:37:49,890 --> 00:38:00,567
that obviously, yeah, yeah, I mean, you said you're living but, but so stock is like 300
horse 273 foot pound torque, which again, pretty good for 1.6 liters.

561
00:38:00,567 --> 00:38:06,547
yeah, it's I think the upgrades and I, I think, um, I mean, I'm in a similar boat because
I don't remember.

562
00:38:06,547 --> 00:38:15,767
I don't know if you remember this, but the reason I originally reached out to you was
obviously the vast majority of my, uh, driving we do as electric, but we also have a 1987

563
00:38:15,767 --> 00:38:18,427
Land Rover Defender 90.

564
00:38:18,447 --> 00:38:21,587
And you had posted this.

565
00:38:21,587 --> 00:38:21,887
Yeah.

566
00:38:21,887 --> 00:38:27,831
Well, and speaking of like what it came from the factory from the factory, which it was
doing 12.

567
00:38:27,933 --> 00:38:29,505
Well, not even the power.

568
00:38:29,505 --> 00:38:32,727
was saying it could get 12 miles per gallon.

569
00:38:32,968 --> 00:38:36,130
And I don't think we've ever hit the double digits, unfortunately.

570
00:38:36,130 --> 00:38:42,786
But I did do the math of between what we get in our Teslas and then what we get with the
Defender.

571
00:38:42,786 --> 00:38:47,501
And we're still at about high 90 mile per gallon annual equivalent.

572
00:38:47,501 --> 00:38:49,806
So I'm still feeling pretty good about that.

573
00:38:49,806 --> 00:38:59,622
See that, makes me feel bad because the, the, the Rivian is about a 65 mile per gallon
equivalent, which is still better than a Prius, still better than a Hummer by, by a

574
00:38:59,622 --> 00:39:00,492
couple.

575
00:39:01,373 --> 00:39:12,119
but, anyway, so probably right now, if I had to guess we're at about 340 horsepower and
320 or so through 30 pound feet of torque.

576
00:39:12,499 --> 00:39:14,521
Problem is everyone's seeing me doing this.

577
00:39:14,521 --> 00:39:16,922
Now I got like a turbo company, a fuel.

578
00:39:16,922 --> 00:39:24,262
Rails company, Clutch, well, Clutch, I don't mind, but Clutch company, Valves, top of the
engine.

579
00:39:24,422 --> 00:39:30,710
I don't, know, it's diminishing returns and also like, yeah, okay.

580
00:39:30,710 --> 00:39:33,892
with extreme costs going straight up.

581
00:39:33,892 --> 00:39:44,347
You know, honestly, I'm very fortunate that like my costs are are almost nothing because
they just want to get their name out there that hey, somebody makes somebody makes a

582
00:39:44,347 --> 00:39:45,218
turbo.

583
00:39:45,327 --> 00:39:45,787
what are you at?

584
00:39:45,787 --> 00:39:48,507
You got like a hundred thousand followers now on Instagram or something.

585
00:39:48,507 --> 00:39:50,887
So yeah, you also have a good following for what you do.

586
00:39:51,727 --> 00:39:52,307
I'm sorry.

587
00:39:52,307 --> 00:39:52,667
I'm sorry.

588
00:39:52,667 --> 00:39:54,507
I'm not trying to round down.

589
00:39:54,507 --> 00:39:55,283
I'm just messing.

590
00:39:55,283 --> 00:40:07,445
but was I say, you know, it's it gets into like, well, one of the nice things about a gr
Corolla, as opposed to like, I don't know, I use BMW is I think Toyota reliability, you

591
00:40:07,445 --> 00:40:14,968
know, so I start first, put in like, you know, schmuckos turbo not no French Marco, like,
you know, and like,

592
00:40:15,182 --> 00:40:20,645
All right, now you're really changing internals of like, it's like, it's like, if you look
at like a Lotus Elise, right?

593
00:40:20,645 --> 00:40:22,005
Camry motor.

594
00:40:22,405 --> 00:40:26,377
what's the one part that fails on the Lotus Elise camshafts?

595
00:40:26,377 --> 00:40:28,468
Why Lotus makes them.

596
00:40:30,169 --> 00:40:33,330
That's the only thing in the engine they change and it's the only thing that fails.

597
00:40:33,330 --> 00:40:37,592
And so I'm, not as wealthy as I'd like to be.

598
00:40:37,592 --> 00:40:41,874
And so if my car goes down and it's not warranted, it's like,

599
00:40:43,226 --> 00:40:50,806
So I'm, I don't know, I don't know, but I'm actually really liking it at the moment.

600
00:40:50,806 --> 00:40:51,586
I might leave it alone.

601
00:40:51,586 --> 00:40:58,346
I will say though, one of the cool things with this ECU tech is that you have various
engine maps.

602
00:40:58,346 --> 00:41:00,086
think there's like four available maps.

603
00:41:00,086 --> 00:41:03,766
So I could map it to like a hundred octane.

604
00:41:03,766 --> 00:41:10,946
There's actually 16 stations in LA that sell a hundred octane at double digits a gallon,
but.

605
00:41:11,626 --> 00:41:21,733
If I get a new fuel delivery system, E85, so E85 you can really, know, because it's just
ethanol is colder than gasoline.

606
00:41:21,733 --> 00:41:26,935
So for direct injection motors, you can really lower the combustion temp and big power.

607
00:41:27,615 --> 00:41:29,417
Do I want to change the fuel delivery?

608
00:41:29,417 --> 00:41:30,643
I don't know.

609
00:41:30,643 --> 00:41:38,983
mean, and that's kind of where it's an interesting thing because like, like I was saying,
I reached out to you originally because I had seen some defender guy that you're, uh, had

610
00:41:38,983 --> 00:41:48,043
to kind of mentioned it in a post on the West coast and go figure trying to find good
British, uh, sources for some of these parts domestically can be a bit of a challenge.

611
00:41:48,203 --> 00:41:50,343
But, uh, I think it goes to exactly that.

612
00:41:50,343 --> 00:41:57,143
It just like what our interests are, are definitely kind of more of the combustion vehicle
nerd side of stuff.

613
00:41:57,143 --> 00:42:00,167
And I think what's also interesting about your podcast.

614
00:42:00,167 --> 00:42:07,213
on inevitable, especially is it's trying to go kind of into the, EV car nerd side of stuff
too.

615
00:42:07,213 --> 00:42:21,515
But for most people like day to day, like there's 10 % on each side that are really
interesting and kind of fascinating, but an EV solves like 80 to 90 % of the market today

616
00:42:21,515 --> 00:42:23,906
as to what they actually want or need.

617
00:42:25,168 --> 00:42:29,097
but I, but I think that's, I think that's what's makes such a cool opportunity is like,

618
00:42:29,097 --> 00:42:31,210
There's a lot still to be done with combustion engines.

619
00:42:31,210 --> 00:42:34,094
And there's some kind of cool things for like, especially weekend projects.

620
00:42:34,094 --> 00:42:40,724
mean, I'm sure with your Corolla, don't want to be, there's a lot of times you don't want
to drive that around town.

621
00:42:40,724 --> 00:42:43,258
And that's where the Rivian and Canada is nicer to.

622
00:42:43,258 --> 00:42:47,461
Honestly, I'm one of those weirdos, like, you I don't mind driving a stick anywhere.

623
00:42:47,461 --> 00:42:49,482
love, I just love driving stick.

624
00:42:49,482 --> 00:42:51,693
That doesn't even bother me in traffic.

625
00:42:51,693 --> 00:42:53,965
Like at least I'm not bored, you know?

626
00:42:54,245 --> 00:42:56,847
So I love driving the Toyota.

627
00:42:56,847 --> 00:43:00,089
That's the one thing I'm not changing is actually anything to do with the suspension.

628
00:43:00,089 --> 00:43:01,850
Although, just take that back.

629
00:43:01,850 --> 00:43:08,175
I got some wheels and tires coming, which is probably gonna ruin everything, but they,
yeah.

630
00:43:08,175 --> 00:43:14,496
when you're driving around LA, if it's just you, do you take either car or if it's like
you and your wife, you and your kids?

631
00:43:14,496 --> 00:43:18,857
And to God, if I'm here by myself and I have one car to pick, I pick the Rivian.

632
00:43:18,857 --> 00:43:20,087
I like it better.

633
00:43:20,648 --> 00:43:26,009
Now, you know, we have to have two cars because sometimes she takes it.

634
00:43:26,009 --> 00:43:34,401
I mean, the funniest true story is I had an Alfa Romeo Giulia Least and it was time to get
another car.

635
00:43:34,401 --> 00:43:36,862
Least was up and I've been wanting the GR Corolla.

636
00:43:36,862 --> 00:43:37,242
I love it.

637
00:43:37,242 --> 00:43:38,392
I do love it.

638
00:43:38,453 --> 00:43:41,653
And my wife goes, could we get two Rivians?

639
00:43:41,713 --> 00:43:43,962
And I was like, ooh.

640
00:43:43,962 --> 00:43:47,542
I'm like, ooh, we could set up one for mileage and one for off-road.

641
00:43:48,682 --> 00:43:50,682
And I thought about it for a split second.

642
00:43:50,682 --> 00:43:52,442
said to her, said, you know what?

643
00:43:52,862 --> 00:43:55,222
You could, I couldn't.

644
00:43:55,362 --> 00:43:56,642
I already get accused.

645
00:43:56,642 --> 00:43:59,562
Now, again, I pay Rivian every goddamn month.

646
00:43:59,562 --> 00:44:01,822
I pay those people a lot of money.

647
00:44:01,822 --> 00:44:05,082
I get accused of working for them all the time.

648
00:44:05,242 --> 00:44:07,411
They make a product I really like.

649
00:44:07,411 --> 00:44:10,276
And I mean, don't be wrong, I'm a big fan of their products too.

650
00:44:10,276 --> 00:44:17,088
I've been accused of that and of Tesla ones just because I like both their products and
people accuse me for being a Land Rover show every now and then.

651
00:44:17,209 --> 00:44:19,612
And they're definitely not paying me.

652
00:44:19,734 --> 00:44:20,574
Let's put it that way.

653
00:44:20,574 --> 00:44:26,114
you know, I guess with the, the, guess the geo corollas is sort of like accepted, like,
that thing's great.

654
00:44:26,114 --> 00:44:33,414
But like, if you would have ever told me before I bought it, before I drove it, should
say, initially that like one day I would own a Corolla.

655
00:44:33,414 --> 00:44:34,674
I would have laughed at you.

656
00:44:34,674 --> 00:44:37,229
Like I hate Corollas, but I like this whole.

657
00:44:37,229 --> 00:44:42,506
have immediately think like, so my life took a change and then I became like a tax
accountant or something.

658
00:44:42,506 --> 00:44:43,722
Yeah, exactly.

659
00:44:43,722 --> 00:44:44,122
believed you.

660
00:44:44,122 --> 00:44:56,082
I honestly, now, if you, if you know me, I've, you know, boy, I bought my first WRX in
October of 2001, which was like the second month they were on sale in the U S you know

661
00:44:56,082 --> 00:44:56,382
what I mean?

662
00:44:56,382 --> 00:45:04,482
So, and I had two of those and I love little Japanese compact, Wagony fast things.

663
00:45:04,482 --> 00:45:06,362
I just, there's something, I know.

664
00:45:06,362 --> 00:45:07,822
I just, love them.

665
00:45:07,822 --> 00:45:08,222
Yeah.

666
00:45:08,222 --> 00:45:11,838
I just, and just to me, they make a lot of sense.

667
00:45:11,838 --> 00:45:15,382
Especially again, it has to be in hatchback form.

668
00:45:15,382 --> 00:45:18,525
don't know sedan hatchback or wagon.

669
00:45:19,267 --> 00:45:28,575
Yeah, so I would take the rib again, you know, you're asking like the fire so I went down
to

670
00:45:28,575 --> 00:45:30,495
Well, and I'm sorry, not, not to interrupt you.

671
00:45:30,495 --> 00:45:31,255
think it's just so funny.

672
00:45:31,255 --> 00:45:37,835
We went down this path because you were talking originally about the software on your
Rivian and how you could just do it all from your phone.

673
00:45:37,835 --> 00:45:47,195
And then we kind of went on a big tangent about the software and the two weeks tweaks
you've done to your Corolla, which are awesome, but it is, it is so fascinating to me that

674
00:45:47,195 --> 00:45:54,535
it's like it, um, combustion software and like EV software is almost like digital.

675
00:45:54,735 --> 00:45:58,135
This is a weird analogy, but it's like digital versus analog.

676
00:45:59,484 --> 00:46:02,218
where it's so manual versus yeah.

677
00:46:02,218 --> 00:46:07,778
like, you're not going to get any more power out of your EV, but there's a lot of cool
things you can do with the software.

678
00:46:07,778 --> 00:46:12,198
Um, but again, I'm, I'm, I'm tuning the damn Corolla with my phone.

679
00:46:12,198 --> 00:46:13,798
Uh, I'm not tuning them.

680
00:46:13,798 --> 00:46:16,998
I'm uploading and downloading, what was it?

681
00:46:16,998 --> 00:46:17,898
was good.

682
00:46:17,958 --> 00:46:18,848
Oh, go ahead.

683
00:46:18,848 --> 00:46:19,969
do you do that?

684
00:46:20,009 --> 00:46:23,632
I figured you were using a, but you do plug it in.

685
00:46:23,632 --> 00:46:24,673
You can't do it wirelessly.

686
00:46:24,673 --> 00:46:27,955
You have to do it through the phone and then you connect it via the OBD.

687
00:46:28,322 --> 00:46:32,323
It's a, it's a, it's a wireless transmitter that plugs into the OBD.

688
00:46:32,323 --> 00:46:32,743
Yeah.

689
00:46:32,743 --> 00:46:34,494
And you got to charge it every once in a while.

690
00:46:34,494 --> 00:46:36,504
It has an indicator light.

691
00:46:36,664 --> 00:46:40,985
I mean, it like, it's like a hundred, you know, I, I discharged it for the sake of it.

692
00:46:40,985 --> 00:46:42,086
didn't do anything.

693
00:46:42,606 --> 00:46:49,728
but yeah, it's like, so basically, the guy, the garage is helping me counter space garage.

694
00:46:50,248 --> 00:46:51,808
they push out a new file.

695
00:46:51,808 --> 00:46:53,849
My, my app on my phone receives it.

696
00:46:53,849 --> 00:46:56,790
get an email like, Hey, there's a new file for you.

697
00:46:56,790 --> 00:46:58,105
Install it in your car.

698
00:46:58,105 --> 00:47:00,685
It's a little two, three minute installation process.

699
00:47:00,685 --> 00:47:11,505
And then I open up a data logger on the app and you know, just it's every parameter like,
know, intake temperature, um, yeah, whatever, you know, uh, spark adjustment, you know,

700
00:47:11,505 --> 00:47:16,085
everything in the engine computer spits out, it logs it.

701
00:47:16,085 --> 00:47:22,185
And I go through, you know, I take it to red line and third gear, do this, do that, press
these buttons for five seconds.

702
00:47:22,205 --> 00:47:26,586
Um, you know, if something goes wrong, there's a mark, uh, function where it's okay.

703
00:47:26,586 --> 00:47:29,146
You know, and I tell him like, Hey, you'll see there's a mark.

704
00:47:29,146 --> 00:47:29,906
Here's what happened.

705
00:47:29,906 --> 00:47:33,186
This error popped up or I felt this or whatever.

706
00:47:33,226 --> 00:47:39,526
Um, and then he, I don't know what he does on a computer and sends me back a magical file
the next day.

707
00:47:39,526 --> 00:47:41,506
And we're about to install number 11.

708
00:47:41,506 --> 00:47:43,346
So it's been, it's been super fun.

709
00:47:44,126 --> 00:47:45,746
Um, Oh, but fire.

710
00:47:45,746 --> 00:47:54,906
So, uh, the civic center in Pasadena, uh, was turned into an evacuation center for
everyone in and of the, in Pasadena that was affected.

711
00:47:54,906 --> 00:47:59,246
Uh, friend of mine was kind of coordinating the early, uh, relief efforts.

712
00:47:59,246 --> 00:48:07,166
So I just bought like a bunch of like tampons and diapers and stuff like the toothbrushes,
whatever that people fleeing their homes wouldn't think to grab.

713
00:48:07,166 --> 00:48:09,486
Uh, and I brought it down there.

714
00:48:09,486 --> 00:48:13,726
First of all, I've never been in a war zone.

715
00:48:13,826 --> 00:48:21,750
Um, I have no idea what it's actually like, but I have to imagine like Pasadena Wednesday
night was like, everything was covered in.

716
00:48:21,750 --> 00:48:26,133
in soot, thick white soot, trees were down everywhere from the wind.

717
00:48:27,195 --> 00:48:32,880
Like you could see, I don't know, 75 feet in front of you because the smoke was so crazy
thick.

718
00:48:32,880 --> 00:48:37,916
And I rolled up and there were like, they cops kind of like, you know, kind of controlling
the scene.

719
00:48:37,916 --> 00:48:39,265
It kind of a madhouse.

720
00:48:39,386 --> 00:48:46,832
And I had a mask on and this cop standing there and I, you know, just waiting, I'm looking
at him and I go, hey, no mask.

721
00:48:46,832 --> 00:48:49,324
And he's like, man, they don't do an effing thing.

722
00:48:49,350 --> 00:48:53,793
And I like lowered my mask on my, my God, like he, it's, it's, was so bad.

723
00:48:53,793 --> 00:48:54,523
Like it did that.

724
00:48:54,523 --> 00:48:56,974
There's no way it was doing anything.

725
00:48:57,975 --> 00:49:04,819
but anyways, you know, I was really thankful to have the, I had a Tuesday night.

726
00:49:04,819 --> 00:49:12,683
So Tuesday was on the winds really started and I had a review car, a Maserati, grand
Cabrio Trofeo.

727
00:49:12,983 --> 00:49:17,686
And, sadly because of the fires, I didn't really get to do anything with it, but Tuesday
night I went out,

728
00:49:18,234 --> 00:49:21,454
some friends were in town from Tokyo, met him for dinner.

729
00:49:21,454 --> 00:49:27,834
And then I was driving back and it was like crazy because there was like trees down
everywhere and like, you know, the Maserati.

730
00:49:28,974 --> 00:49:33,274
Well, that night when I was rolling around Pasadena in the Riviera, it was like, it just
felt great.

731
00:49:34,074 --> 00:49:35,114
I've driven Humvees.

732
00:49:35,114 --> 00:49:38,114
It had that kind of feel to it where, tree go over it.

733
00:49:38,114 --> 00:49:39,174
Who cares?

734
00:49:39,234 --> 00:49:45,754
You I'm also on these really cool Toyo tires, these open country threes that are like, you
know, super tires for off-roading.

735
00:49:45,754 --> 00:49:47,090
And it was just,

736
00:49:47,222 --> 00:49:56,145
It's the thing to be driving around in and then I don't know if you've seen, I like the
video, it makes a lot of people upset, but there's this video, for some reason there's

737
00:49:56,145 --> 00:50:07,748
some university that tests guardrails and they punch cars through guardrails at like 60
miles an hour and they put a Rubian pickup truck through a guardrail and it just snaps the

738
00:50:07,748 --> 00:50:14,240
guardrail, hits a cement K-wall and shatters the K-wall and then like.

739
00:50:14,382 --> 00:50:15,853
The front doesn't even deform.

740
00:50:15,853 --> 00:50:17,314
Like I bet the hood would still open.

741
00:50:17,314 --> 00:50:25,109
you know, Rivian's the only pickup truck with like a safety plus pick rating.

742
00:50:25,570 --> 00:50:36,027
So I told my wife, I'm like, the kid moves around in the Rivian during this because people
were driving like maniacs because like, know, drunk or fleeing or both or whatever, know,

743
00:50:36,027 --> 00:50:37,037
who knows?

744
00:50:37,058 --> 00:50:40,420
So don't put them in the little Corolla, put them in the big truck.

745
00:50:40,420 --> 00:50:43,722
So I was very thankful to have the Rivian.

746
00:50:44,836 --> 00:50:55,023
you know, and then like we used it for a bunch of like, there was people, you know, you,
you, some people are on medication, like it was on pig, very popular in LA, but lots of

747
00:50:55,023 --> 00:50:58,155
other medications where you got to keep them refrigerated.

748
00:50:58,555 --> 00:51:00,447
and their house burned down, so they don't have refrigerator.

749
00:51:00,447 --> 00:51:06,931
So we got a bunch of mini fridges from home Depot and I was able to like move them around
with the Rivian, you know, just stuff like that.

750
00:51:06,931 --> 00:51:07,451
Like, yeah.

751
00:51:07,451 --> 00:51:10,904
So it was just, it was a good, what would any pickup truck do the same thing?

752
00:51:10,904 --> 00:51:11,644
Absolutely.

753
00:51:11,644 --> 00:51:12,825
Absolutely.

754
00:51:12,945 --> 00:51:14,546
I just happened to have this one.

755
00:51:14,973 --> 00:51:17,191
No, I mean, they are great off road.

756
00:51:17,191 --> 00:51:20,110
Yeah, I mean, yeah, that's true.

757
00:51:20,110 --> 00:51:21,214
Actually, they're there.

758
00:51:21,214 --> 00:51:22,025
Yeah.

759
00:51:22,066 --> 00:51:26,006
as much fun as it is to take the little Toyota up like Angela's Crest.

760
00:51:26,006 --> 00:51:34,826
I also enjoy driving my truck like Angela's Crest because you lower it and it into a
sports car with mine's 835 horsepower, which I like.

761
00:51:35,091 --> 00:51:42,206
Now, mean, I guess shared friend Kyle Connor, he's always talking about how much he loves
that about his too, that he can kind of have best of both worlds.

762
00:51:42,206 --> 00:51:48,131
It's obviously not the same as the Corolla, but it gives you so much of that that you just
don't expect from a truck.

763
00:51:48,131 --> 00:51:52,264
And especially, like I said, with the Land Rover, the Defender we drive, I love that
thing.

764
00:51:52,585 --> 00:51:56,547
And I am still like, say what?

765
00:51:57,859 --> 00:52:00,931
no, no, well, I mean, that's the thing is like, we were...

766
00:52:01,597 --> 00:52:05,290
And I think I still might or I might get another one to convert to being electric.

767
00:52:05,290 --> 00:52:11,155
But there is something kind of beautiful about it, just like, cause this not to go down a
completely different rabbit hole.

768
00:52:11,155 --> 00:52:17,353
were kind of talking about, essentially like just into world disasters and like, well,
solar flares and all that.

769
00:52:17,353 --> 00:52:18,160
And I'm like, yeah, that's true.

770
00:52:18,160 --> 00:52:19,391
No one's real cars would start in there.

771
00:52:19,391 --> 00:52:28,048
was, you know, actually our Land Rover has a carburetor and it just like, it would be kind
of, and it is such a, like just, it's not fast, but it goes over anything and everything

772
00:52:28,048 --> 00:52:29,242
at the same speed.

773
00:52:29,242 --> 00:52:36,942
It's funny, were, we had a guy, uh, company called moment motors and, they do, uh, they do
EV conversions.

774
00:52:37,082 --> 00:52:44,562
And he was talking about like, you know, like a lot of people feel that all cars are
improved by going EV, but there's some cars that are much more improved.

775
00:52:44,562 --> 00:52:52,822
And one of them was like a Mercedes Pagoda, which beautiful car engine and transmission
are nothing to write home about.

776
00:52:52,822 --> 00:52:56,902
Nobody's ever been like, man, the motor in my Pagoda.

777
00:52:57,382 --> 00:52:58,958
So it's like, oh yeah.

778
00:52:58,958 --> 00:53:03,863
quickly double the horsepower and actually because the batteries are that big, reduce the
weight.

779
00:53:04,004 --> 00:53:09,309
I bet you a Defender 90 is a great candidate for electrification.

780
00:53:09,390 --> 00:53:09,739
Yeah.

781
00:53:09,739 --> 00:53:20,419
I actually, uh, yeah, we we've had them on the podcast before, but, uh, some of the team
up, they're actually based in Wales and now I'm driving, uh, uh, Felton Felton's the name

782
00:53:20,419 --> 00:53:24,259
of the team that does a really amazing, uh, drop in conversion kit.

783
00:53:24,259 --> 00:53:27,379
And then I've worked with, uh, legacy EV and where they've been on the pocket.

784
00:53:27,379 --> 00:53:33,239
I took their classic car conversion course, actually a couple of years back, um, highly
recommend.

785
00:53:33,239 --> 00:53:34,159
And it was just fun.

786
00:53:34,159 --> 00:53:36,987
It was, uh, it was kind of a wild experience because.

787
00:53:36,987 --> 00:53:43,862
I had originally pitched it to my wife because we had the Land Rover and at the time this
is another this is a rabble and rabble.

788
00:53:43,862 --> 00:53:57,031
I actually had a 72 Ford Bronco body and I was actually looking at making I just had the
body beautiful kind of midnight metallic blue and I was like I'll make that electric long

789
00:53:57,031 --> 00:54:05,023
story short ween up game read that and so the defender became the prime candidate and I
came across this thing and I was like you know what

790
00:54:05,023 --> 00:54:07,983
I pitched it to my wife as like adult summer camp for a week.

791
00:54:07,983 --> 00:54:11,283
I'm going to go take this course down in Phoenix.

792
00:54:11,283 --> 00:54:21,283
Uh, we'll see if we get our money back, but it just, it's a lot of fun things playing
with, uh, tools, doing kind of electrical work in a car, playing with some wrenches here

793
00:54:21,283 --> 00:54:22,143
and there and learning stuff.

794
00:54:22,143 --> 00:54:22,923
So I was like, why not?

795
00:54:22,923 --> 00:54:25,183
And she's like, okay, go for it.

796
00:54:25,783 --> 00:54:34,803
Uh, the company is called legacy Evie and they originally started as mostly a education or
no, I'm sorry, not education.

797
00:54:34,855 --> 00:54:46,455
Part supplier for people to do EV conversions for classic cars and then they kind of they
still do that And they actually probably have one of the better online Just SKUs and stuff

798
00:54:46,455 --> 00:54:55,642
to if you're looking to do that But what they ended up I think has probably become a
bigger business for them Honestly, and it's a great program is teaching how to do the

799
00:54:55,642 --> 00:55:03,019
conversions And then if you want to buy the parts from that you can obviously and so I
took this course and I figured I was gonna be kind of a bunch of guys like me like yeah,

800
00:55:03,019 --> 00:55:03,859
I'll be

801
00:55:03,859 --> 00:55:10,142
the one, it'll be me and kind of like a bunch of average, kind of like garage guys that
kind of do this for the weekend.

802
00:55:10,142 --> 00:55:15,604
I was literally the only one there was a, it will, and that's actually what made it so
fast.

803
00:55:15,604 --> 00:55:17,905
And there were guys from Shelby America.

804
00:55:17,905 --> 00:55:21,306
There were guys from the Kindred Motorworks team.

805
00:55:21,306 --> 00:55:30,120
There were, I think the closest thing where there were two different guys, if I remember
right, who were actually high school shop teachers who had kind of gotten a grant to learn

806
00:55:30,120 --> 00:55:30,690
how to do this.

807
00:55:30,690 --> 00:55:32,991
And so they were taking the course and then teaching the kids, which was great.

808
00:55:32,991 --> 00:55:33,432
So

809
00:55:33,432 --> 00:55:34,585
That's great.

810
00:55:34,849 --> 00:55:35,321
That's great.

811
00:55:35,321 --> 00:55:37,097
There's still high school shop courses.

812
00:55:37,097 --> 00:55:39,695
that, that unto itself for sure.

813
00:55:39,695 --> 00:55:44,542
And so that, that was kind of the reason I was like, yeah, this would be so much fun to
convert the defender.

814
00:55:44,542 --> 00:55:46,583
And I think we probably still will.

815
00:55:47,134 --> 00:55:52,047
but it's also just kind of been kind of the more we think was like, yeah, if something
like was really just go.

816
00:55:52,208 --> 00:55:53,348
Completely sideways.

817
00:55:53,348 --> 00:56:00,373
It is kind of funny just to have like a really reliable, not fast, but just, but I'm sure
we'll do it anyway.

818
00:56:00,913 --> 00:56:03,645
but, I think that's the thing that so many people.

819
00:56:03,999 --> 00:56:14,179
don't realize is like, oh, these EVs, when the power goes out or some sort of issue, it's
like, well, yeah, the incident run a gas, you got to go to a gas station that's also

820
00:56:14,179 --> 00:56:15,779
dependent on electricity.

821
00:56:15,779 --> 00:56:16,389
Yeah, exactly.

822
00:56:16,389 --> 00:56:21,476
Yeah, and again, you just like, you know, you can charge it to whatever you want in your
house.

823
00:56:21,726 --> 00:56:24,080
They go many miles.

824
00:56:24,702 --> 00:56:25,098
Yeah.

825
00:56:25,098 --> 00:56:30,881
think Lucid's definitely one of the other ones that are kind of catching up with the
software side of stuff, but it is just wild.

826
00:56:32,062 --> 00:56:34,924
Between them, Tesla and Rivian domestically.

827
00:56:34,924 --> 00:56:38,977
then it's like some of the legacies, some of their apps are finally kind of getting
polished.

828
00:56:38,977 --> 00:56:46,482
Cause for so long, so many of them, would open the app and it just wouldn't do what you
told the car to do, which was like drive.

829
00:56:46,482 --> 00:56:49,253
just one of the most annoying.

830
00:56:49,254 --> 00:56:51,079
It's like, it shouldn't even be an app.

831
00:56:51,079 --> 00:56:53,081
Like it makes the, it's one thing to have it.

832
00:56:53,081 --> 00:56:56,095
It's so much worse in some ways to say, your car can do it.

833
00:56:56,095 --> 00:56:58,968
And then when you go to try and do it, it fails.

834
00:56:58,968 --> 00:57:01,362
And then you're trying to do it for like three minutes.

835
00:57:01,362 --> 00:57:09,429
mean, you see the advantage that like the new car companies have with software is like,
you know, I had the electric G wagon.

836
00:57:09,990 --> 00:57:16,716
and, it's an interesting car.

837
00:57:16,716 --> 00:57:21,119
It's, it's, it's, it like, it's, held back by the fact that it's a G wagon.

838
00:57:21,119 --> 00:57:28,606
Like if it was, you know, it's just like the battery should be bigger, but there's nowhere
to put it because this is what a G wagon is.

839
00:57:28,606 --> 00:57:29,348
Like if they were to

840
00:57:29,348 --> 00:57:32,700
take that powertrain and put it in a GLS, which I think they're doing.

841
00:57:33,061 --> 00:57:38,546
Like, boy, they'd really have something, because then you could get like another 40
kilowatt hour battery in there.

842
00:57:38,546 --> 00:57:42,939
But like I got it and I was just, I was like, God, this is so weird.

843
00:57:42,939 --> 00:57:47,443
I, you know, like I have never driven one before, but like, there's like no EV menus.

844
00:57:47,443 --> 00:57:48,674
Like I can't figure this out.

845
00:57:48,674 --> 00:57:50,555
Like it's like, legacy.

846
00:57:50,616 --> 00:57:53,579
And then I live like on a hill.

847
00:57:53,579 --> 00:57:57,232
So when I parked the cars are kind of pointed downhill and I backed it in.

848
00:57:57,232 --> 00:57:57,818
And so,

849
00:57:57,818 --> 00:58:01,118
I put it in drive and it starts rolling and then takes me about two seconds.

850
00:58:01,118 --> 00:58:05,158
I quickly realized like my foot has nothing to do with it rolling.

851
00:58:05,158 --> 00:58:08,158
It was just kind of a neutral and it just something weird that happened.

852
00:58:08,158 --> 00:58:09,478
It just died.

853
00:58:09,798 --> 00:58:12,858
Uh, it just, you know, like it was just, it was actually funny.

854
00:58:12,858 --> 00:58:15,278
It blocked in like a bunch of me and my neighbors.

855
00:58:15,538 --> 00:58:17,758
Um, they came and got it and they were like, Hey, you know what?

856
00:58:17,758 --> 00:58:18,578
We have another one.

857
00:58:18,578 --> 00:58:19,558
It's exactly the same.

858
00:58:19,558 --> 00:58:21,478
looked the same picture, same plate.

859
00:58:22,058 --> 00:58:25,836
And I turned that one on and it's like, Oh, this one.

860
00:58:25,836 --> 00:58:27,187
has the EV software.

861
00:58:27,187 --> 00:58:34,568
in other words, when they ship a G wagon somewhere in the G wagon software, you got to say
it's the electric, not the gas.

862
00:58:34,568 --> 00:58:39,031
So I had an EV that was running the gas software, which turned out to be the problem.

863
00:58:39,812 --> 00:58:42,563
but like, yeah, it was, it was crazy.

864
00:58:42,563 --> 00:58:47,585
So like, you got to write both and it's like, that's not good.

865
00:58:47,585 --> 00:58:50,436
You can't, you know, you can't be great at both.

866
00:58:50,436 --> 00:58:51,637
You can be good.

867
00:58:51,637 --> 00:58:54,638
Like, like I think Mercedes and BMW.

868
00:58:54,926 --> 00:59:00,951
they have good EVs and know, good specifically like the gas seven series is good.

869
00:59:00,951 --> 00:59:11,720
The electric seven series is great, but they're both held back by the fact that you gotta
have for the seven series, you gotta have a structure that can hold that battery and

870
00:59:11,720 --> 00:59:12,811
support all that weight.

871
00:59:12,811 --> 00:59:15,023
it's, it's the gas one's too heavy.

872
00:59:15,023 --> 00:59:23,661
And then, you know, like the way it's put together, although with the seven series, kind
of like through design out the window, but like, you know, it's like,

873
00:59:23,661 --> 00:59:25,867
kind of part of what makes it so.

874
00:59:26,793 --> 00:59:27,714
Yeah.

875
00:59:28,238 --> 00:59:29,039
Yeah.

876
00:59:29,195 --> 00:59:32,301
car I would love to own one day, the I7 M70.

877
00:59:32,301 --> 00:59:35,145
That's my kind of limousine.

878
00:59:35,145 --> 00:59:38,020
That thing is, that's a good vehicle.

879
00:59:38,020 --> 00:59:39,784
like 200 grand.

880
00:59:39,784 --> 00:59:46,799
it's an amazing around town vehicle or like driving around LA because you can go a cup,
really?

881
00:59:46,799 --> 00:59:47,704
Yeah.

882
00:59:47,704 --> 00:59:49,715
we put one stupidly on a race track.

883
00:59:49,715 --> 00:59:55,889
had a Bentley flying spur, the W12, I think it was even the Speed.

884
00:59:55,889 --> 01:00:04,834
And yeah, the BMW, the electric one beat it by like three seconds around the track and was
just way better in every way and accelerated better.

885
01:00:04,834 --> 01:00:07,546
Everything except for looks, the BMW did much better.

886
01:00:07,546 --> 01:00:10,897
Bentley did much better in terms of looks, I will say.

887
01:00:11,817 --> 01:00:13,595
They've got that pretty delved in.

888
01:00:13,825 --> 01:00:16,525
not good-looking is you know water is also wet

889
01:00:16,525 --> 01:00:19,916
of reason it's so fast, as they say with a lot of BMWs lately.

890
01:00:19,916 --> 01:00:21,785
It has to be fast so you don't see it.

891
01:00:21,785 --> 01:00:22,389
Yeah, right.

892
01:00:22,389 --> 01:00:23,218
Exactly.

893
01:00:23,391 --> 01:00:24,451
Yeah.

894
01:00:24,571 --> 01:00:26,091
Well, and I guess I'm kind of curious.

895
01:00:26,091 --> 01:00:30,351
That was one of the other things I want to talk to you about is just like looking towards
2025.

896
01:00:30,351 --> 01:00:31,731
And it's interesting.

897
01:00:31,751 --> 01:00:37,331
I mean, the electric G-Wagon to me, it's going so far.

898
01:00:37,331 --> 01:00:44,551
And I mean, you can say this in some regards, the this generation defenders too, but it's
going so far from its original roots to what it is.

899
01:00:44,551 --> 01:00:50,971
But I think the G-Wagon especially is the epitome of it where it's just like, what is it?

900
01:00:50,971 --> 01:00:52,327
Maybe one.

901
01:00:52,327 --> 01:00:57,549
out of every 10,000 goes on to gravel or any other hard service.

902
01:00:57,569 --> 01:00:58,970
it's, yeah.

903
01:00:58,970 --> 01:01:07,683
Well, I mean, I, and I've obviously I'm just making that up, but it's just like, see them
everywhere in LA or like Scottsdale and sure they're great vehicles, but it's like, they

904
01:01:07,683 --> 01:01:08,984
don't go on a road trip with it.

905
01:01:08,984 --> 01:01:16,217
And so in some ways, if, it is what it is being used for making electric, actually makes a
lot of sense.

906
01:01:16,217 --> 01:01:21,799
If you want to use it for like what it can do, then yeah, some of those come out more.

907
01:01:21,882 --> 01:01:22,922
So two things.

908
01:01:22,922 --> 01:01:33,502
One is very quietly, but I did get the pressure release Mercedes the day they launched the
G 580 as it's called, or actually it's got a horrible name.

909
01:01:33,502 --> 01:01:38,182
It's like G 580 with EQ technology is the official name.

910
01:01:38,362 --> 01:01:48,022
Uh, but it was when they launched it, they put out a pressure release saying, Hey, in 18
months, we're going to have a new battery chemistry that'll have 20 % more range.

911
01:01:48,182 --> 01:01:51,290
So it's a lithium sodium, I want to say battery.

912
01:01:51,290 --> 01:02:01,086
Um, so when that happened, it would be much better because right now it's like EPA to, I
can't remember if it's two 60 or two 40 and like, it's about.

913
01:02:01,086 --> 01:02:03,865
mean to its credit, it's a brick.

914
01:02:04,451 --> 01:02:05,793
Like Arrow has

915
01:02:06,425 --> 01:02:09,666
but it's like they wanted to keep all the off-road chops.

916
01:02:09,666 --> 01:02:16,319
They actually had to figure out how to do a live axle with two motors.

917
01:02:16,319 --> 01:02:17,699
But I mean, they're so German.

918
01:02:17,699 --> 01:02:21,371
I will say this, I will give them credit.

919
01:02:21,371 --> 01:02:22,321
I took it off-road.

920
01:02:22,321 --> 01:02:25,743
I thought the Rivian was good.

921
01:02:25,743 --> 01:02:27,263
The four motor was good off-road.

922
01:02:27,263 --> 01:02:29,504
I think the G-Wagon's better.

923
01:02:29,504 --> 01:02:32,005
And the G-Wagon was on like street tires.

924
01:02:32,084 --> 01:02:32,887
Damn.

925
01:02:34,392 --> 01:02:43,429
You know, I've made this point elsewhere, like, okay, lucid, they want to have a really
fast E V.

926
01:02:43,429 --> 01:02:47,632
So they figured out how to spin a motor faster, with software, right?

927
01:02:48,774 --> 01:02:50,765
Porsche runs into that problem.

928
01:02:50,925 --> 01:02:51,466
what do they do?

929
01:02:51,466 --> 01:02:54,178
They put a two speed transmission on the Tycon.

930
01:02:55,019 --> 01:03:00,123
it's hard to, you know, control, off road.

931
01:03:00,123 --> 01:03:04,157
So, you know, you're going from 80 miles an hour to one mile an hour control.

932
01:03:04,157 --> 01:03:04,953
Yeah.

933
01:03:05,043 --> 01:03:06,383
with a four motor system.

934
01:03:06,383 --> 01:03:08,865
So Rivian has spent a lot of time on the software.

935
01:03:08,865 --> 01:03:10,066
What does Mercedes do?

936
01:03:10,066 --> 01:03:12,097
Each motor gets its own two speed transmission.

937
01:03:12,097 --> 01:03:15,721
So there's eight gears, there's four transmissions.

938
01:03:15,721 --> 01:03:18,904
which like on paper it looks that means it almost looks the same as the regular one.

939
01:03:18,904 --> 01:03:20,561
It's like, both have eight gears.

940
01:03:20,561 --> 01:03:23,105
Just in a completely different way.

941
01:03:23,286 --> 01:03:24,387
Yeah.

942
01:03:24,629 --> 01:03:25,411
Yeah.

943
01:03:25,411 --> 01:03:26,201
Right.

944
01:03:26,471 --> 01:03:30,734
don't care what they say really, but maybe they have a point because it is the proofs in
the pudding.

945
01:03:30,734 --> 01:03:34,902
It is really good off road, but like, I think you could have done that with software.

946
01:03:34,902 --> 01:03:36,459
I don't think you had to gear it down.

947
01:03:36,459 --> 01:03:40,004
Whatever, they're German, they look for mechanical solutions.

948
01:03:40,004 --> 01:03:41,808
hardware versus software.

949
01:03:41,946 --> 01:03:42,786
In a way.

950
01:03:42,786 --> 01:03:53,926
And it was funny too, cause when I was in Norway, I actually, I drove, I was a passenger
in an electric G wagon from Norway to Ariaplog, Sweden, which is a big testing center up

951
01:03:53,926 --> 01:03:54,986
in the Arctic circle.

952
01:03:54,986 --> 01:03:58,286
Actually a little south of the Arctic circle, but they say Arctic circle.

953
01:03:59,746 --> 01:04:03,226
And I had a whole point.

954
01:04:03,226 --> 01:04:03,666
Oh my God.

955
01:04:03,666 --> 01:04:03,826
Sorry.

956
01:04:03,826 --> 01:04:06,006
I'm a little exhausted from these fires.

957
01:04:08,922 --> 01:04:10,962
So the proof is in the pudding.

958
01:04:12,202 --> 01:04:13,602
German engineering.

959
01:04:13,862 --> 01:04:14,462
Yeah.

960
01:04:14,462 --> 01:04:15,402
Oh yeah.

961
01:04:15,402 --> 01:04:18,122
And so I was with these guys and they were engineers.

962
01:04:18,122 --> 01:04:20,622
Engineers don't have like the best PR training.

963
01:04:20,622 --> 01:04:29,922
And I'm one of my strengths as a journalist is I know how to like, if there's not a PR
person around, I know how to like get answers out of these guys.

964
01:04:29,922 --> 01:04:34,062
Anyways, so there was four guys from Austria.

965
01:04:34,062 --> 01:04:36,262
One guy was from Czech Republic.

966
01:04:36,262 --> 01:04:38,762
Anyways, they were German.

967
01:04:39,338 --> 01:04:43,500
there were Magnus Steyer employees that work on the G-Wagen.

968
01:04:43,921 --> 01:04:49,158
Well, they were the employees, but whatever, they do the traction control on the G-Wagen,
stuff like that.

969
01:04:49,158 --> 01:04:56,288
I just kept asking them, I'm like, well, and this is a good question if you're a budding
journalist out there, what are your benchmark?

970
01:04:57,609 --> 01:04:59,690
And so they said, well, number one, had to be a G-Wagen.

971
01:04:59,690 --> 01:05:01,831
So everything, couldn't change a thing.

972
01:05:01,831 --> 01:05:04,613
They changed four things on the exterior.

973
01:05:04,613 --> 01:05:06,793
used to be a real nerd to see them, but.

974
01:05:08,366 --> 01:05:13,247
But they said, well, we benchmark every competitor, all crap, all terrible.

975
01:05:14,468 --> 01:05:16,879
This was bad, that was bad, except the Rivian.

976
01:05:16,879 --> 01:05:19,210
We really liked the Rivian.

977
01:05:19,210 --> 01:05:25,548
And one guy who was a non-German was like, we even really thought about the air
suspension.

978
01:05:25,548 --> 01:05:33,820
It was a real game changer being able to increase ground clearance by five inches, however
many centimeters that is, 14 centimeters.

979
01:05:35,215 --> 01:05:38,075
But G wagons don't have air suspension, we couldn't do that.

980
01:05:38,075 --> 01:05:42,659
But man, it really does pay dividends and blah, blah, blah.

981
01:05:42,659 --> 01:05:55,846
anyways, my thing is off-road, I think for turning out, unless it's extreme rock crawling,
because you can't connect the rear motors, although somebody will figure that out, it's a

982
01:05:55,846 --> 01:06:00,229
real advantage based on traction to have four motors.

983
01:06:00,229 --> 01:06:02,840
Individual wheel control is really

984
01:06:02,840 --> 01:06:04,396
A good thing, it turns out.

985
01:06:05,663 --> 01:06:17,906
Yeah, I mean, it is really impressive what Rivian and just Tesla and some of these others,
how they have kind of approached that idea of doing it software first and what I mean, and

986
01:06:17,906 --> 01:06:26,394
to your point exactly, actually Tom about the review, how good it still is off road with
some interesting kind of compromises as far as what like not having lockers and some of

987
01:06:26,394 --> 01:06:29,247
these having an E locker and that stuff and.

988
01:06:29,720 --> 01:06:32,447
Yeah, the Rivians don't even have e-lockers, but,

989
01:06:32,447 --> 01:06:34,367
Well, that's true, right.

990
01:06:34,367 --> 01:06:39,727
But like they're kind of software and kind of manipulating in a way to try and get around
that.

991
01:06:39,727 --> 01:06:45,807
It's definitely not perfect, but it is still wild how that is actually accomplished still.

992
01:06:46,136 --> 01:06:47,527
Yeah, no, for sure.

993
01:06:47,527 --> 01:06:50,978
And Rivian, look, they get away with it by having so much goddamn torque.

994
01:06:50,978 --> 01:06:59,168
It's like, okay, you're only using one motor, but that one motor is like over 200 pound
feet of torque.

995
01:06:59,168 --> 01:07:01,852
So that's enough to get a lot of things up a hill.

996
01:07:02,473 --> 01:07:08,995
Yeah, no, it's like Tesla famously, well, why did they come up with their own language and
do a software-defined vehicle?

997
01:07:08,995 --> 01:07:11,636
They invented it because nobody would work with them.

998
01:07:11,636 --> 01:07:13,297
No supplier was like, what?

999
01:07:13,297 --> 01:07:14,007
You want what?

1000
01:07:14,007 --> 01:07:15,838
No, here, take our...

1001
01:07:15,962 --> 01:07:18,862
whatever, and it's like, no, I guess we're gonna make our own.

1002
01:07:18,862 --> 01:07:21,742
And then it turned out there's these huge advantages.

1003
01:07:23,382 --> 01:07:24,262
but anyways.

1004
01:07:24,607 --> 01:07:33,333
And I realized we're kind of going a little bit over time, but one of the things I wanted
to talk to you about were just like, if you have time for it, is just upcoming into 2025,

1005
01:07:33,333 --> 01:07:40,358
any vehicles and especially like EVs or even plug-in EV hybrids that you're kind of
excited for.

1006
01:07:40,358 --> 01:07:43,501
I know you're also a pretty big fan of Lucid's technology.

1007
01:07:43,501 --> 01:07:47,119
don't know if you've had too much time around like the gravity and that stuff or.

1008
01:07:47,119 --> 01:07:50,151
yeah, the big dog, the new, you know, gravity out here.

1009
01:07:50,151 --> 01:07:51,161
It's great.

1010
01:07:51,491 --> 01:07:55,442
I hear it's also very prototypey so far, the ones that have been driven.

1011
01:07:55,783 --> 01:07:58,264
but I, I imagine they'll get it right.

1012
01:07:58,264 --> 01:08:09,268
And that that's going to be cool too, because not only is it the SUV, but the, fascinates
me about Lucid is their, their motors, because they're so efficient.

1013
01:08:09,268 --> 01:08:12,730
Now, what does that mean to me and you powerful?

1014
01:08:13,499 --> 01:08:24,910
it turns out efficiency just you can use more energy to make power but so I think a lucid
is capable of something like five miles a kilowatt where my truck does like to barely and

1015
01:08:24,910 --> 01:08:25,364
these

1016
01:08:25,364 --> 01:08:26,606
I will push back on that.

1017
01:08:26,606 --> 01:08:29,429
Like I have yet to see those.

1018
01:08:29,851 --> 01:08:31,131
They're efficient.

1019
01:08:31,633 --> 01:08:38,836
I think they kind of, I think they kind of got a little ahead of themselves by saying
those numbers because I haven't really seen those in reality, but.

1020
01:08:38,836 --> 01:08:43,987
them when I did a thing with Lucid where we drove at 70 miles an hour.

1021
01:08:44,086 --> 01:08:45,298
It does do it.

1022
01:08:45,298 --> 01:08:46,368
does do it.

1023
01:08:47,168 --> 01:08:48,229
Yeah.

1024
01:08:51,170 --> 01:08:53,330
I've seen like over four though.

1025
01:08:53,330 --> 01:08:56,091
It's insane because my...

1026
01:08:56,931 --> 01:09:01,912
But so supposedly they'll be able to achieve like five and a half to six with the gravity.

1027
01:09:01,912 --> 01:09:03,883
So that'll be, that's new motor.

1028
01:09:03,883 --> 01:09:05,733
So that's pretty fascinating.

1029
01:09:06,294 --> 01:09:08,134
The new model Y,

1030
01:09:08,552 --> 01:09:13,947
you know, like say what you want about everything Tesla related, like, and it makes some
good products.

1031
01:09:13,947 --> 01:09:17,109
So that's, that's very intriguing.

1032
01:09:17,870 --> 01:09:25,216
obviously the small Rivian, the art to the R three scout, which is probably a couple of
years away, but I'm curious about that.

1033
01:09:25,216 --> 01:09:33,102
I'm also curious that are actually going to bother with a range extender that adds 150
miles only, which seems kind of like, what's the point, but okay.

1034
01:09:33,684 --> 01:09:36,723
cause you're going to compromise something's got to give.

1035
01:09:36,723 --> 01:09:37,208
Yeah.

1036
01:09:37,208 --> 01:09:37,419
Right?

1037
01:09:37,419 --> 01:09:41,729
If you're going to suddenly have an engine in a gas tank, where does that go?

1038
01:09:41,729 --> 01:09:43,678
I don't, I think they're just kind of saying that.

1039
01:09:43,678 --> 01:09:44,896
I don't know if that's going to make production.

1040
01:09:44,896 --> 01:09:45,879
That's just my guess.

1041
01:09:45,879 --> 01:09:46,079
interesting.

1042
01:09:46,079 --> 01:09:46,939
No, I agree with you.

1043
01:09:46,939 --> 01:09:48,499
That'll be really interesting.

1044
01:09:48,758 --> 01:09:53,573
You can't you can't just like, like, it's not like you want leather.

1045
01:09:53,573 --> 01:09:57,468
It's like that's like a real big engineering compromise.

1046
01:09:57,468 --> 01:10:00,340
You know, you're taking up a lot of space and

1047
01:10:00,574 --> 01:10:12,254
when it's kind of funny, and admittedly, I don't think the art too is like, maybe some
will like, like just barely roll off, like December 31 of this year, but it sounds like

1048
01:10:12,254 --> 01:10:15,414
it's more 2026 and then same with.

1049
01:10:15,454 --> 01:10:17,034
Okay, right.

1050
01:10:17,034 --> 01:10:17,774
Yeah.

1051
01:10:18,386 --> 01:10:18,606
Yeah.

1052
01:10:18,606 --> 01:10:18,786
Who?

1053
01:10:18,786 --> 01:10:26,566
I mean, I look, they, you know, RJ, uh, we had RJ on the inevitable RJ, uh, scrunch is the
owner CEO.

1054
01:10:26,566 --> 01:10:29,226
We used to be owner now CEO of Rivian.

1055
01:10:29,226 --> 01:10:32,466
And he said, he's like, we'll never be profitable until we launch the art too.

1056
01:10:32,466 --> 01:10:33,526
can't.

1057
01:10:33,526 --> 01:10:39,426
And you know, they probably IPO too early, but like, yeah, they have a lot of pressure to
like get that stock price up.

1058
01:10:39,426 --> 01:10:40,146
And how do you do that?

1059
01:10:40,146 --> 01:10:41,686
You got to have the art too.

1060
01:10:41,786 --> 01:10:43,346
Um, so.

1061
01:10:44,211 --> 01:10:45,304
No, I agree with you.

1062
01:10:45,304 --> 01:10:46,860
I'd love to see it come out.

1063
01:10:46,860 --> 01:10:50,111
I was just for anyone listening, just to clarify it probably.

1064
01:10:50,111 --> 01:10:50,652
Yeah.

1065
01:10:50,652 --> 01:10:56,936
the, the other thing is that they did say 26, but remember they said it was 26 out of the
Georgia factory.

1066
01:10:56,936 --> 01:11:01,359
They pause the Georgia factory and they're converting the existing factory.

1067
01:11:01,359 --> 01:11:03,671
So, you know, the Georgia factory is not built.

1068
01:11:03,671 --> 01:11:05,722
So they already have the factory.

1069
01:11:06,803 --> 01:11:12,486
boy, you know, and, and EVs are a lot easier to spool up than internal combustion turns
out.

1070
01:11:13,487 --> 01:11:16,149
so maybe, maybe sooner than later.

1071
01:11:16,329 --> 01:11:17,403
I'm curious about.

1072
01:11:17,403 --> 01:11:21,163
still within like a 12 to, it's coming.

1073
01:11:21,163 --> 01:11:22,923
I think that's for sure,

1074
01:11:23,100 --> 01:11:23,540
Yeah.

1075
01:11:23,540 --> 01:11:38,971
And then I'm also curious about, the Dodge, sorry, the Ram Ram charger, whatever they're
calling it, the, the EREV, truck, cause I'm, it sounds like a lot of, in the short term, a

1076
01:11:38,971 --> 01:11:40,792
lot of these EREV.

1077
01:11:40,792 --> 01:11:44,825
So EREV different than plugin hybrid where it's kind of like the Chevy Volt.

1078
01:11:44,825 --> 01:11:48,827
It's a, it's a, it's a battery electric vehicle that has a range extender.

1079
01:11:48,827 --> 01:11:49,914
It's the EREV.

1080
01:11:49,914 --> 01:11:56,474
range extender, internal combustion engine that is not unlike the Chevy wall that is not
connected to the drive wheels.

1081
01:11:56,474 --> 01:12:01,454
It just creates electricity, which, you know, I think it's good if you're a locomotive.

1082
01:12:01,454 --> 01:12:08,755
I think it's probably better just to be fully V but you know, people are like, well, what
if I have to go go on a road trip suddenly and I can't and there aren't any charges.

1083
01:12:08,755 --> 01:12:17,135
say, if you're make that argument, it does kind of make the most sense for like a Ram
pickup truck or something where it's just like, you need a lot of the torque, exactly,

1084
01:12:17,135 --> 01:12:18,960
towing and yeah.

1085
01:12:18,960 --> 01:12:21,782
you know that that's the thing nobody ever wants to talk about.

1086
01:12:21,782 --> 01:12:25,884
But like, yeah, EVs you cut the range in half when you hook up a trailer.

1087
01:12:25,884 --> 01:12:29,966
Guess what happens to a big diesel, you cut the range in half and you hook up a trailer.

1088
01:12:29,966 --> 01:12:33,388
It's just that they have humongous gas tanks.

1089
01:12:33,388 --> 01:12:35,349
And, you know, diesels.

1090
01:12:35,349 --> 01:12:35,751
Yeah.

1091
01:12:35,751 --> 01:12:46,891
to test out, and maybe this is for the scientists and you guys, you professionals at
Mudder Trend to test, is what's interesting is like you look at like, kind of going back

1092
01:12:46,891 --> 01:12:50,071
to when we were talking about the G-Wagon, talking about Arrow.

1093
01:12:50,331 --> 01:12:52,351
It's a brick, so it doesn't have the best arrow.

1094
01:12:52,351 --> 01:12:57,580
But in Rivian's defense, it actually looks like a brick, but its arrow is actually really
good for what it is.

1095
01:12:57,580 --> 01:12:58,490
It's so good.

1096
01:12:58,490 --> 01:12:59,758
Let me tell you how good it is.

1097
01:12:59,758 --> 01:13:00,659
Yeah.

1098
01:13:00,739 --> 01:13:06,699
I do want to talk to you about that, but it's kind of a follow this is like, so Rivian can
optimize their arrow.

1099
01:13:06,699 --> 01:13:07,719
The Cybertruck is crazy.

1100
01:13:07,719 --> 01:13:14,319
It looked actually kind of optimized this arrow, but then you've got like the Chevy
Silverado, which essentially didn't do a whole lot.

1101
01:13:14,319 --> 01:13:19,039
They kind of focused on being a brick and just shoved a bunch of batteries in it.

1102
01:13:19,039 --> 01:13:29,099
But talking about towing, what's really interesting is you see that because the arrow is
actually so bad on the truck, it actually

1103
01:13:29,179 --> 01:13:31,321
it does not affect the towing as much.

1104
01:13:31,321 --> 01:13:35,784
So the Rivian and the Cybertruck are kind of inversely affected by that.

1105
01:13:35,784 --> 01:13:43,569
And so what I'm kind of curious, I'd love to see someone do, and this is kind of
ridiculous and kind of over the top, but I've seen so many people do crazy towing things

1106
01:13:43,569 --> 01:13:57,519
just anecdotally over the years, that what I'd love to see is, can you optimize the aero,
even on a Rivian or one of these other, or any EV truck, by literally taking like a sheet,

1107
01:13:57,663 --> 01:14:07,103
and some magnets and essentially just optimize instead of you getting that huge arrow hit
because of the air going over the vehicle and then hitting the surface of what you're

1108
01:14:07,103 --> 01:14:07,643
towing.

1109
01:14:07,643 --> 01:14:17,723
Can you actually try and make it more like actually a semi and one long area that
minimizes that arrow drag hit and see what that Delta becomes?

1110
01:14:17,743 --> 01:14:18,263
Yeah.

1111
01:14:18,263 --> 01:14:19,162
Breaking up with the boys.

1112
01:14:19,162 --> 01:14:24,702
I was going to say I got this, I got a topper for my Rivian by go fast camping.

1113
01:14:24,782 --> 01:14:28,942
I'm helping them develop their Rivian product.

1114
01:14:28,942 --> 01:14:32,882
So they gave me the prototype and oh, it just killed my range.

1115
01:14:32,902 --> 01:14:35,482
It's the prototype and we knew it would happen.

1116
01:14:35,482 --> 01:14:40,655
But again, the Rivian truck is really optimized and it's like, yeah, it's like a

1117
01:14:40,655 --> 01:14:42,015
the good and bad of it.

1118
01:14:42,015 --> 01:14:45,110
It's like the instant you start kind of playing around with it, you see the penalty of it.

1119
01:14:45,110 --> 01:14:54,216
It's kind of like 8 % like, or yeah, 8 % from like two miles of kilowatts, like 1.8.

1120
01:14:54,216 --> 01:14:56,757
So it's pretty significant.

1121
01:14:56,757 --> 01:15:00,326
And you put pretty like you mentioned those Toyo tires on.

1122
01:15:00,418 --> 01:15:02,794
I have the least efficient rivet on planet earth right now.

1123
01:15:02,794 --> 01:15:04,042
Yeah, I it's terrible.

1124
01:15:04,042 --> 01:15:08,934
those, those kinds of tariffs, especially like you do actually, I don't be wrong.

1125
01:15:08,974 --> 01:15:12,135
My biggest issue with Rivian right now is nothing to do with their product.

1126
01:15:12,135 --> 01:15:14,616
has lately been their drivers where I live.

1127
01:15:15,337 --> 01:15:19,769
cause it has now become the, R1S specifically has become the new Range Rover.

1128
01:15:19,769 --> 01:15:28,983
And I swear to God, if I see another Rivian driver in an R1S just doing this with their
phone down the road, I'm going to lose it.

1129
01:15:28,983 --> 01:15:29,803
But,

1130
01:15:30,439 --> 01:15:40,828
Yeah, it's become the new, not once again, anecdotal, once again, anecdotal, and not to
stereotype, but it is now the new kind of like soccer mom Range Rover driving vehicle here

1131
01:15:40,828 --> 01:15:42,149
in Bend, Oregon.

1132
01:15:42,150 --> 01:15:45,973
Having said that, having said that it is, it is really cool what they've built.

1133
01:15:45,973 --> 01:15:47,715
And I think it is really interesting.

1134
01:15:47,715 --> 01:15:56,273
Like, if you're going to actually use it for what it's capable with, like you do getting
some, like their tires options are awesome, but if you really want to crank it up, yeah,

1135
01:15:56,273 --> 01:15:57,041
you kind of got.

1136
01:15:57,041 --> 01:16:00,826
have to go to something like a Toyo or like the Falcon kind of more off-road tire.

1137
01:16:01,106 --> 01:16:02,446
you know, it comes on the Pirellis.

1138
01:16:02,446 --> 01:16:05,306
I did plenty of off-roading on the Pirellis.

1139
01:16:05,706 --> 01:16:14,986
But I let my buddy drive the truck and I was walking next to it filming, some, doing some,
again, was a double black trail, hardcore trail.

1140
01:16:14,986 --> 01:16:18,026
And I'm looking at the tires and I'm like, those look terrible.

1141
01:16:18,026 --> 01:16:20,206
It just doesn't look like it's happy.

1142
01:16:20,206 --> 01:16:22,206
And yeah, so I put these on there.

1143
01:16:22,206 --> 01:16:24,626
Now I did kill the range by 7%.

1144
01:16:24,626 --> 01:16:27,918
So I took them off and I put on some other.

1145
01:16:27,918 --> 01:16:28,641
kind of expected.

1146
01:16:28,641 --> 01:16:32,655
That's not great, but not as bad as it could be actually.

1147
01:16:32,858 --> 01:16:36,998
Right, well I combined that with this topper and I'm like, you know, I'm way down.

1148
01:16:36,998 --> 01:16:44,938
But I had some other tires on there and it was the, one of the wheels was out of alignment
and I just wore through one of them.

1149
01:16:45,818 --> 01:16:48,758
instead of buying another set, the Toyo's only had like a few thousand miles on them.

1150
01:16:48,758 --> 01:16:53,318
And that's the other thing too, is those last a long time.

1151
01:16:53,318 --> 01:16:55,638
They're just, such beefy things.

1152
01:16:56,198 --> 01:16:59,598
getting, know, cause they're like, they've basically been on there.

1153
01:16:59,598 --> 01:17:01,778
The truck has like 30,

1154
01:17:02,010 --> 01:17:03,290
2000 miles on it.

1155
01:17:03,290 --> 01:17:06,370
They've probably been on there like 20,000 of the miles, something like that.

1156
01:17:06,370 --> 01:17:07,690
More or more.

1157
01:17:08,230 --> 01:17:09,210
Yeah.

1158
01:17:09,250 --> 01:17:09,970
So.

1159
01:17:10,465 --> 01:17:20,549
Yeah, I guess one other question I had was like going back to looking at like the Gravity
versus some of these other cars like kind of coming out.

1160
01:17:20,549 --> 01:17:31,633
Where do you think, where do you think is a, I mean yeah, you mentioned Model Y, the new
one, the Gravity, Rivian R2 and all this stuff.

1161
01:17:31,633 --> 01:17:36,275
Where do you think there's still a gap or any areas that maybe

1162
01:17:36,465 --> 01:17:38,651
EVs need to serve better.

1163
01:17:38,651 --> 01:17:40,083
Yeah.

1164
01:17:40,487 --> 01:17:41,815
At least domestically for sure.

1165
01:17:41,815 --> 01:17:42,443
Yeah.

1166
01:17:42,443 --> 01:17:48,299
my, my GR Corolla, like, don't know if I, I don't know it's a hundred percent.

1167
01:17:48,299 --> 01:17:59,210
And I don't know if I could have been a two Rivian family, but had that R3X been out, when
it was time for my Alpha lease, like, you know, cause I think there's a tri motor version

1168
01:17:59,210 --> 01:18:01,302
that's going to be like the tri motor.

1169
01:18:01,302 --> 01:18:01,822
little thing.

1170
01:18:01,822 --> 01:18:04,322
That was the worst thing they could do though.

1171
01:18:04,762 --> 01:18:11,042
They should have just announced the R2 and left it at that because everyone talks about
and don't mean all the R3 looks cool.

1172
01:18:11,042 --> 01:18:14,162
I think it's gonna be a great vehicle, but they first just need to that R2 out.

1173
01:18:14,162 --> 01:18:16,382
And I think that's gonna be an awesome vehicle.

1174
01:18:16,582 --> 01:18:21,462
It wasn't until honestly, I saw the new Scout that I was like, actually I might be born to
that.

1175
01:18:21,562 --> 01:18:22,042
Yeah.

1176
01:18:22,042 --> 01:18:25,022
I mean, the art is size better than the scout.

1177
01:18:25,762 --> 01:18:29,062
Um, um, I'm not, I don't need a vehicle like that ever.

1178
01:18:29,062 --> 01:18:38,282
Um, I like odd vehicles, but that are three X again, and I couldn't get RJ to like say
either way, but I think he, I think I'm right here.

1179
01:18:38,282 --> 01:18:43,702
It's going to have the same power output as the tri motor, uh, R one.

1180
01:18:43,702 --> 01:18:47,462
So, uh, I want to say that's like, what is that?

1181
01:18:47,462 --> 01:18:51,276
850 horse, uh, 1100 pound feet of pork.

1182
01:18:51,276 --> 01:18:54,579
in a little tiny guy, like that's my kind of vehicle, you know.

1183
01:18:54,579 --> 01:19:02,843
Well, and it's just so cool, kind of like what it is, like the old rally be kind of cars
that you can buy modern and electric.

1184
01:19:02,843 --> 01:19:04,384
mean, it's awesome.

1185
01:19:04,724 --> 01:19:06,525
I get why it got so much coverage.

1186
01:19:06,525 --> 01:19:09,666
I just think it was kind of unfortunately.

1187
01:19:10,627 --> 01:19:16,310
I think the art is kind of a cool and a great product as well, but I think that that is
the downside by them announcing it.

1188
01:19:16,310 --> 01:19:19,046
It kind of overshadowed their the announcement of the art.

1189
01:19:19,046 --> 01:19:29,606
I mean the R3 should be a fast follow because I believe that the R2 and the R3 are going
to share almost everything, whereas the R1 is just sort of its own platform, more premium

1190
01:19:29,606 --> 01:19:37,346
and advanced, blah, But yes, aside from small, I think more choice in actual big three-row
SUVs.

1191
01:19:37,346 --> 01:19:43,304
know the Cadillac is just out, but I'd like to see an electric Tahoe suburban-sized
vehicle.

1192
01:19:43,304 --> 01:19:43,943
Yeah, yeah.

1193
01:19:43,943 --> 01:19:47,926
that makes a lot of sense and, you know, and, and, Americans like big vehicles.

1194
01:19:47,926 --> 01:19:48,967
just do.

1195
01:19:49,848 --> 01:19:55,493
so small and big, like, like, you know, there's enough model Y competitors right now.

1196
01:19:56,514 --> 01:19:58,616
and, and that's not an original thought.

1197
01:19:58,616 --> 01:20:09,018
RJ again was saying that, but if you look at like, you know, from the ionic five to the
Maki, like they're within like an inch of everything of the model Y.

1198
01:20:09,018 --> 01:20:16,398
And again, a model Y was, I think it was unseated by some Chinese thing called a BYD,
whatever, but it was the best selling vehicle in the world.

1199
01:20:16,398 --> 01:20:21,178
It surpassed know, Corolla for that, for that title, which is pretty amazing.

1200
01:20:21,178 --> 01:20:23,458
So it's an important car.

1201
01:20:23,858 --> 01:20:24,818
What else is lacking?

1202
01:20:24,818 --> 01:20:26,378
mean, sports cars are tricky.

1203
01:20:26,378 --> 01:20:33,518
don't, I'm not convinced that at the high end, top end of the market, like there'll ever
really be a place for an electric sports car.

1204
01:20:33,715 --> 01:20:43,490
Well, that is where I mean, I going back to our conversation earlier about your role and
stuff like that kind of makes sense for the weekend category to have a combustion vehicle.

1205
01:20:43,892 --> 01:20:46,228
If you're that kind of person that it's kind of fun to have that.

1206
01:20:46,228 --> 01:20:52,532
Yeah, yeah, look, and you know, I don't want it to be like, you know, you know, no, you
can't do this.

1207
01:20:52,613 --> 01:21:00,139
But it's just like, you know, lightness is not an EV attribute.

1208
01:21:01,020 --> 01:21:04,653
And so you get around it by just adding tons of power, but it's still heavy.

1209
01:21:04,653 --> 01:21:06,875
So, you know, I don't know, I don't know.

1210
01:21:06,875 --> 01:21:11,779
And you know, it's also it's the theory of the leisure leisure class, Thurston Veblen,
right?

1211
01:21:11,779 --> 01:21:13,249
So so

1212
01:21:13,902 --> 01:21:21,896
You know, when everybody, when nobody could afford electric lights, electric lights were
considered romantic.

1213
01:21:21,896 --> 01:21:23,391
It's only the rich could afford them.

1214
01:21:23,391 --> 01:21:29,937
And then once everybody got electricity candlelight dinner was romantic because only the
rich could afford to have candles and electric lights.

1215
01:21:29,937 --> 01:21:34,441
And so I think for like the top end, everybody has an EV now.

1216
01:21:34,441 --> 01:21:38,305
Cause it remember when EVs first launched model S only rich guys could buy them, right?

1217
01:21:38,305 --> 01:21:39,726
Rich rich guys.

1218
01:21:39,726 --> 01:21:45,152
And so once the masses get only the very rich can afford a V8 or a V12.

1219
01:21:45,152 --> 01:21:46,643
But I think there'll be a little.

1220
01:21:46,643 --> 01:21:50,077
can make the argument is already the case in a lot of ways.

1221
01:21:50,077 --> 01:21:51,558
Yeah.

1222
01:21:51,558 --> 01:21:52,730
I get what you're saying.

1223
01:21:52,730 --> 01:21:53,520
Yeah.

1224
01:21:53,881 --> 01:21:57,004
It's more like it becomes more of a luxury kind of status.

1225
01:21:57,004 --> 01:21:58,526
I totally get it.

1226
01:21:58,526 --> 01:21:59,169
Yeah.

1227
01:21:59,169 --> 01:21:59,459
right?

1228
01:21:59,459 --> 01:22:06,081
Okay, Matty Rimmatz just pulled the greatest trick in the world, right?

1229
01:22:06,081 --> 01:22:08,421
He got a bunch of billionaires to buy an EV.

1230
01:22:08,421 --> 01:22:08,982
How?

1231
01:22:08,982 --> 01:22:15,103
He put a V16 in it, but that's a Navara with three electric motors and a battery that he
couldn't sell.

1232
01:22:15,103 --> 01:22:16,584
How do you sell it?

1233
01:22:16,664 --> 01:22:18,684
Shove a V16 in it, same car.

1234
01:22:18,684 --> 01:22:23,686
I mean, obviously they're gonna say it's not, but if you look at them with their skin off,
it's the same car.

1235
01:22:24,186 --> 01:22:26,046
So he fooled them.

1236
01:22:26,046 --> 01:22:29,046
Nobody, no billionaire wants to admit that, but they bought an EV.

1237
01:22:29,086 --> 01:22:38,466
It happens to have this complication, which is a V16, but you know, it's going to get 700
horsepower out of the EV side of it.

1238
01:22:38,466 --> 01:22:41,154
Um, and so, yeah.

1239
01:22:41,154 --> 01:22:53,260
could see, speaking of that, do you think we could see a return to the hyper cars being
purely combustion or do you think because of the hybrid technology, it kind of makes it

1240
01:22:53,260 --> 01:22:55,483
really the pros and cons of

1241
01:22:55,559 --> 01:23:08,204
I wrote an article about this saying that like you'll never get rid of like the V12 and
some maybe a couple more 16 cylinders, but always be a market because of again is he was a

1242
01:23:08,785 --> 01:23:16,768
Economist slash philosopher but economist from Wisconsin University of Wisconsin the odd
name of Thorsten Veblen and Theory of the leisure class.

1243
01:23:16,768 --> 01:23:17,989
I recommend everybody read it.

1244
01:23:17,989 --> 01:23:18,769
I read it in college.

1245
01:23:18,769 --> 01:23:19,549
I should dust it off.

1246
01:23:19,549 --> 01:23:21,402
But you know

1247
01:23:21,402 --> 01:23:28,722
the as a Fitzgerald said, the richer, very different than you and I, they have more money
so they can afford to buy.

1248
01:23:28,942 --> 01:23:32,362
You know, I just drove the Pagani utopia.

1249
01:23:32,362 --> 01:23:33,062
Awesome.

1250
01:23:33,062 --> 01:23:35,722
Like, Hey man, what a great car.

1251
01:23:36,902 --> 01:23:40,622
It's 2.5 million to start and they're all sold out.

1252
01:23:40,622 --> 01:23:43,462
So if you want to buy one use there more.

1253
01:23:43,542 --> 01:23:49,942
Um, and it's a, it's a 25 year old Mercedes V12 with a, you know, a new plenum or
something on it.

1254
01:23:49,942 --> 01:23:50,866
Uh,

1255
01:23:51,054 --> 01:23:53,158
you know, it's, you know, wink, wink.

1256
01:23:53,158 --> 01:24:04,636
And again, back to the Bugatti Tourbillon, it makes less power than it's slower than the
electric one, but you gotta have it because it's got the V16.

1257
01:24:04,636 --> 01:24:05,696
You know, so.

1258
01:24:05,696 --> 01:24:06,096
wheel.

1259
01:24:06,096 --> 01:24:07,116
It's it's is funny.

1260
01:24:07,116 --> 01:24:09,137
Like what are the things that sell it?

1261
01:24:09,137 --> 01:24:10,808
But I mean, and that's you're totally right.

1262
01:24:10,808 --> 01:24:15,620
It's like almost no different than with the advent of the Apple watch.

1263
01:24:15,620 --> 01:24:26,585
Now there's the high end traditional watch space that obviously you and Matt Farrell of
like, and then you get into like the higher side of it too, where it's just like, it's

1264
01:24:26,585 --> 01:24:27,245
ornamental.

1265
01:24:27,245 --> 01:24:31,997
It's very cool, but it gets to a point where yeah, it's purely ornamental versus.

1266
01:24:32,005 --> 01:24:42,186
But again, it's like, you know, it used to be when I was a kid, you know, what mattered in
sports cars was who was the fastest and who was the quickest and now nobody cares.

1267
01:24:42,466 --> 01:24:46,786
They just think, like, if everybody has an EV, I need a gas car.

1268
01:24:46,786 --> 01:24:47,306
You know what I mean?

1269
01:24:47,306 --> 01:24:51,426
It's just, it's just, I got a lot of money, do what I want type of thing.

1270
01:24:51,426 --> 01:24:59,118
So, but yeah, that's, that's the greatest trick the devil ever pulled is convincing a
whole bunch of 450 billionaires to buy an EV.

1271
01:24:59,118 --> 01:25:01,530
by smashing a V16 into it.

1272
01:25:02,651 --> 01:25:03,571
And I think you're right.

1273
01:25:03,571 --> 01:25:06,293
That is going to be a great place for us to end today, Johnny.

1274
01:25:06,293 --> 01:25:07,462
Thank you so much for coming in.

1275
01:25:07,462 --> 01:25:12,437
Thank you for sharing kind of the updates and my apologies.

1276
01:25:12,437 --> 01:25:17,380
And I just thank you so much for coming out with everything going with the wildfires right
now.

1277
01:25:17,380 --> 01:25:21,013
And for anyone that can help or do anything, please let us know.

1278
01:25:21,013 --> 01:25:28,497
And definitely recommend following your Instagram story to kind of get the latest on that
and everything that you've been doing with the MotorTrend team as well.

1279
01:25:28,750 --> 01:25:29,651
Thank you.

1280
01:25:29,875 --> 01:25:30,817
Cool.

1281
01:25:30,820 --> 01:25:31,373
All right.

1282
01:25:36,533 --> 01:25:44,801
Huge thanks to Johnny Lieberman for joining us again and sharing his perspective on
everything from navigating California wildfires with an EV to the future of off-road

1283
01:25:44,801 --> 01:25:46,842
capable electric vehicles.

1284
01:25:46,903 --> 01:25:53,129
We hope you enjoy the deep dive into EV tech and the exciting lineup of upcoming models
reshaping the road ahead.

1285
01:25:53,129 --> 01:25:56,512
If you found today's episode insightful, don't keep it to yourself.

1286
01:25:56,512 --> 01:25:59,695
Share with at least one friend who would appreciate the conversation too.

1287
01:25:59,695 --> 01:26:02,261
And hey, we'd love to hear your feedback.

1288
01:26:02,261 --> 01:26:04,133
Leave us a review on our podcast page.

1289
01:26:04,133 --> 01:26:08,388
helps us connect with more listeners just like you and keep the conversation going.

1290
01:26:08,429 --> 01:26:11,565
Until next week, this is the Grid Connections podcast signing off.