[00:00:00] Antony W: Welcome to the Grow My Salon Business podcast, where we focus on the business side of hairdressing. I'm your host, Antony Whitaker, and I'll be talking to thought leaders in the hairdressing industry, discussing insightful, provocative, and inspiring ideas that matter. So get ready to learn, get ready to be challenged, get ready to be inspired, and most importantly, get ready to grow your salon business.

[00:00:28] Antony W: Hello and welcome to today's episode of the Grow My Salon Business podcast. I'm your host, Antony Whitaker, and whether you're watching this on YouTube or listening to it on your favorite podcasting app, either way, it's great to have you here with us today. Now, today is part two of an episode I did with Jen LeBlanc, and if you didn't catch the first episode, it was episode 186.

[00:00:52] Antony W: So it is probably about, by the time this one comes out, it's probably about three or four episodes previous to this one And, uh, it was such a good, uh, conversation we were having that I wanted to, cut it when we got to the sort of 50 or 60 minute mark and do part two because, you know, we had a big topic that we hadn't even touched on. So, that's what we're going to do today. Now, uh, Jen is the operations manager. And director of marketing at Salon Route to Endz.
And if I've got that wrong, uh, she will tell us in a minute. And if I'm saying Medina wrong, she'll tell me about that as well, because Salon Rootz to Endz is in Medina.

[00:01:31] Jen B.: No. Oddly enough, you say Medina, right? The here in the states say Medina wrong. They always want to call it Medina, Ohio.

[00:01:40] Antony W.: Oh, good. cause I wasn't sure. I remember I asked you last time, as I was about to say, Medina? Is it Medina? I, I took a gamble and I went diner as an American diner. I'm going to call it So, uh, nailed it. So Medina, Ohio.

[00:01:55] Antony W.: Now in today's podcast we're going to talk about primarily the big, you know, nugget that we didn't get to last time, which was talking about combining both, business models, so the employee business model and the suite business model, uh, because that's what Jen has done and very successfully. And we're also going to talk about having your own e-commerce platform and generally all things that come under the banner of marketing. So with my little intro done, Jen, it's great to have you back. I'm really looking forward to, you know, getting into it today.

[00:02:32] Jen B.: Thank you for having me. I'm so excited to be here again. We had so much fun several weeks ago that we, we actually couldn't stop talking.

[00:02:40] Antony W: Exactly. And I had a great response about it as well. A lot of people reached out to me on Instagram or sent me emails and stuff, and, uh, and you know, I, I always think it's fabulous when, someone like yourself is so willing to share. You know, unfortunately, a lot of people, a lot of people still want to keep things secret, and I think it's, I think it's healthy for the industry if we all share. And
 
you are a great sharer. And, uh, I, I really appreciate that and I know that the listeners do as well, so, okay. So, um, I'm not sure if I'm even getting the bit right about Rootz to Endz because just explain to the audience what, what Rootz to Endz is and how that name came about, because that in itself, Describes what we're going to really be talking about here, isn't it?

[00:03:28] Jen B.: Sure. Absolutely. So Salon Rootz is our commission-based location. we just celebrated 17 years this past September. Endz Salon Studios is our studio rental business model in the same plaza. And our business model overall for a growth plan for the business is we grow artists from Rootz to Endz. So rootz is the, uh, I don't want to call it a training salon because it, it's more than that, but that is the entry level, commission based location, and then Endz is what I would call end game. For those that don't want to immerse themselves into being a part of our education team, don't want to be a part of the leadership team at Rootz. There are other avenues for those that want to be independent.

[00:04:15] Antony W: Got it. Okay. And are the studios called Endz or is that cause [00:04:20] Jen B.: Correct.
[00:04:21] Antony W: they are called Endz. [00:04:22] Jen B.: endz called studios, correct? [00:04:24] Antony W.: Okay. E n d z. Yeah. [00:04:26] Jen B.: E N D z. Yes. So rootz To Endz [00:04:28] Antony W.: Rootz
[00:04:29] Antony W: to Endz. Exactly. Exactly. Uh, and I like that. like that now. Um, so, you know, there's a lot of people that I, I, I won't say there's a love hate relationship. There probably used to be a few 10 years ago that was very, you know, they were the enemy. But I think now that the industry

[00:04:45] Jen B.: I love that. I love that very, I love that they were not very well received, you know? And the thing with us though is that when we created Endz, we didn't create Endz to harm anybody that was in our general area. We created Endz to be an insurance policy for ourselves because we had a group of artists that came to us and they wanted to chair rent. And we said, rootz will never be that model. But studio rental, booth rental, whatever you want to call it, was booming in our market area. So instead of fighting it and being, you know, obstinate to new ideas, we decided to make it part of our growth pattern. And now, 10 years ago when we first started doing this, we first started talking about it.

[00:05:36] Jen B.: It was, oh my God, are you, you, you're going to do that? You know, I, are you sure that that's going to work? Everyone will just go booth rent. And
 
it truly doesn't work like that. First of all, studio rentals not for everybody. Okay? You, you know, for some, it's a stepping stone from when they want to own their own location, okay? For some it's end game, meaning they've been doing hair 20 years and they don't want to work with the younger generation anymore, and they just want to come in, work their hours, do good hair, go home, run their own business. You know, there's, there's room for all of us. You know, and it's, it's how we embrace that, that I think is, is the difference. And what makes us different is we embrace it as part of our growth pattern.

[00:06:18] Antony W: Right. Okay. So I, I think I'm right in saying, I've heard you talk about this before and there was actually a story about how it came about in the, in the, you had some people working for you in, in the salon as employees, and they, and they left. And they left, they left to pursue a, a suite type business

[00:06:38] Jen B.: And they were, and they were our they were our golden children. Like they were the never going to leave. They'll be with us forever, you know, type scenario. And because we were operating out of an emotional space of how could we prevent this from ever happening again. You know, the, there were salons locally to us that were very, very upset. Very, very, you know, and actually reached out to us and told us that. But it wasn't, once they understood why we did it, There was less of that animosity because they eventually lost people to our studios. But it wasn't, it wasn't intended

[00:07:20] Antony W: Yeah,

[00:07:21] Jen B.: and it still isn't today. Do we get artists from all over? Yes, we do.
But the primary focus is rootz steps

[00:07:29] Antony W: right? So they're your, they're your people that start off in Salon Rootz, which is an employee based commission, uh, salon. And they have the opportunity at some point. We'll talk about that in a minute, to go to studio Endz if they want to. And then they are their independent business unit of one if they see that that is how they want to work for, as you just said. Uh, all, all sort of manner of reasons there. Okay. And, um, just to, to sort of reconfirm, cause I know you, you said it pretty quickly in with case people didn't hear it. You're literally next door neighbors, like

[00:08:04] Jen B.: are, we are. We are in the same plaza. We are separated by three businesses, two restaurants, and um, a hospice center. So we're, we're literally, I, I'm in the studio, my office is in the studio suite location, and I go back and forth all day long.

[00:08:21] Antony W: Right. Okay. And is it sort of common knowledge that it's the same business, that it's the same owners? It is.

[00:08:27] Jen B.: you know what, in our industry it is okay, but to the general consumer, I think it's become more common knowledge, but it's, you know, Endz will
 
get a phone call all the time and they don't really realize that they're calling a studio rental salon and or they don't realize that we're owned by the same commonalities.

[00:08:47] Antony W: So, so does Endz share a common, the studios, do they share a common receptionist?

[00:08:54] Jen B.: No, actually we have a corporate leasing line, which is myself, which [00:09:00] every now and again will receive consumer based phone calls.

[00:09:04] Antony W: Right. So they will call you thinking that, right.

[00:09:08] Jen B.: correct. Thinking that they're going to make a reservation, but everyone's independent, then they get directed to our website where everyone's own booking information is there, so on and so forth.

[00:09:16] Antony W: Okay. So as you've already said, it's not for everybody. And I, and I totally get that, but I can see, you know, the examples that you just said, that, you know, maybe someone's been doing it for 20, 30 years, whatever, they've got their own client base and they actually don't want to work with, you know, young, 18, 20 year old’s, whatever. They just want to do their own thing and lock the door and, and leave. And they're responsible for their clients and creating their own environment. I totally get that. I totally get that. Um, is it seen as an inevitability? Like is it seen as a promotion in any way?

[00:09:51] Jen B.: We treat it as a promotion at rootz. Okay. So we make a really big deal about it When somebody approaches us, there's a studio available, at Endz.
And they want to make that transition. We make it a big deal to our guests. We make it a big deal to our team because it is, it is the next step. It doesn't necessarily have to be everybody's next step. You know? I'll give you an example. I had a meeting yesterday with one of my rootz members who's going to make the transition in three months. So always plan in 90 day increments. Gives time for her to tell her clients. It gives time for her to organize how she wants to set up her business. We always advise them to be an employee of themselves so that they double W2 themselves. It gives her time to create LLC paperwork. It gives them time. Okay? She has been with us for five years-ish. She started in high school. She is 20 years old. I have employees that are in their early forties, late thirties, that are level five, level four artists for us and have absolutely zero.

[00:10:59] Antony W: Want to come over here? You know want to, they want to stay employees with all that

[00:11:02] Jen B.: They want to stay employees they want to come in, do hair, go home. They don't have to manage their book, they don't have to order their own color. The list of I don't have twos is really long. Okay. When I talked to my team member yesterday, I said, what's the push? You know what I'm, I always want to know perspective. she said, I want the freedom. Now, granted, she has a lot of freedom. Our teams make their own schedules. Okay? I mean, they, as we set them, we set hour blocks. Like we know how many hours we require them for the week, but
 
they essentially choose, choose their own. And she said, coming over here feels different. The freedom feels different. And I find that really interesting.

[00:11:47] Antony W: So let me just, let me just go back. Let me just go back to what you just said there. Your employees.

[00:11:52] Jen B.: yeah.

[00:11:53] Antony W: Choose their own blocks. You, like you say to them, we need you for 30 hours a week, or whatever the number is, but they can choose when they're going to book themselves in for those 30 hours. Is it, is it a

[00:12:05] Jen B.: is it a 12 or they choose a six.

[00:12:07] Antony W: and do, are they choosing this is what it is for the next year or six months, or week or month, or how do you, how do you do that?

[00:12:15] Jen B.: basically on the year. You know what I mean? So, but if somebody came to me and said, Hey, my kid plays soccer in the summer, I need to swap some of my hours morning, you know, some of my nights for mornings or something like that. Okay. You know, now we are growing quite rapidly,

[00:12:33] Jen B.: so we are converting into more of a true chair share. So if somebody works eight to two, somebody's in that chair, two to eight. I have eliminated those middle hours of I can come in at nine and I could work till four. We to be able to accept that, but now that I have more people, I can't be, I can't be on top of each other. So we need to make sure that, that's why we did it. Either you work eight to eight or you work eight to two. We really don't want you working twelves unless you are over a level three. If you're over level three, we will let you work a 12 hour shift. Anything less than that, you work in six hour increments. And that's just so that we try to eliminate the sitting around time.

[00:13:13] Antony W: Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Um, what, what qualifies people to go to Endz? Like if they're, if they're working for you, um, so internally, not an external person come knocking on the door, but if they're working for you and they've been there a couple of years, what, what are the criteria that they have to hit before you say, okay, this is now available for you if you want it.

[00:13:34] Jen B.: Yeah, so it, that's fun cause I literally just did this yesterday with one of my team members and when we're done here, I have another team member that I'm actually talking to. That's why I have, that's why I had a hard stop. We look at gross sales production. I look at their retail sales, but that's not as big of a player coming over here because retail, all girls here don't have it. You know? Or they might have a very small amount, so that's less of a player into it. Um, gross sales is, is the big one. Secondly, we look at how many of their guests are truly their guests. And that's an exclamation point behind that because it's one thing to be busy with the book of all salon rootz derived guests, meaning non requests. Okay? And it's another
 
thing to have a book filled with all of your people and maybe a handful of non requests over the course of the month. Where that makes a difference is when we say X, Y, Z is moving over, there's a good portion of those guests that are going to stay at rootz and they'll just go to somebody else within rootz.

[00:14:40] Jen B.: Okay? But if they're yours, they're going to go with you and we want them to. know, we give them their book, we give them all their appointments. We make that transition as smooth as we possibly can. We own both, you they're both, they're both our salons. So the other, the other big piece of that is when I talk to them, I want to know I'm gauging their discipline level. Okay. Because the thought that you're going to come over here and you're going to make your own hours and you're going to work, flex doesn't work. Like, Hey, I'm going to text my girlfriends that I'm working today. Okay? We want to set you up for long-term success because I don't want to have to replace you in your room.

[00:15:22] Jen B.: Okay. So I am gauging how, how disciplined you are in terms of your ability to convert to being an entrepreneur. Even though we preach all of our artists behind, the chairs need to, should be entrepreneurs. They're not. You have to start thinking like one. So my team member I met with yesterday, that was her homework assignment I gave her. I said, in the next 30 days, every time you come to rootz, you need to start thinking like an entrepreneur. What does my day look like today? If I was at Endz, what does my day look like today? If it canceled, if my day fell apart, people are sick, people cancel, kid has a last minute baseball game. How am I going to react? If that happens to me and I have to handle it, how am I going to react? You know, how am I going to manage my book? You have to start thinking independently so that when you move on independently, it's not such a challenge for you.

[00:16:20] Antony W: Okay. Okay. Um, sorry, I'm scribbling down some questions for you.

[00:16:26] Jen B.: Yeah, yeah.

[00:16:27] Antony W: so, so the first one was you said, That the clients don't all want to go. So, you know, I'm a stylist, I'm working in rootz, and I've decided I'm going to go to Endz the studio, and you are telling all the clients that I'm going, but some of them say, actually I'd rather stay here. Why do the clients, why would the clients rather stay? What, what, what do they

[00:16:50] Jen B.: well, the environments are very different. Okay. The environments couldn't be any more polar opposite of one another. I'll paint a picture for you. rootz is a loud, robust, fun community. It’s an open floor plan where we're loud, we laugh. It's like cheers. Everyone knows everyone's name. Okay? a very open environment Endz is very quiet. Most of the girls work with their door closed. The radio, the, the music on the radio is a much more even keel, mellow environment. Everyone kind of keeps it themselves. They, they collectively, uh, communicate and enjoy each other's relationships, but it's very different.
 
[00:17:36] Jen B.: The majority of the girls here work with the door closed. Okay. It's very quiet. Very, it's a very different atmosphere. Now, on the flip side, some guests really, really like that. Well, they'll be like, rootz was so loud today, and you're like, I know. We love it. Like we love the chaos and the mayhem, some really prefer just them and their artists, a bunch of assistants running around, you know, so it's very, it's a very different guest experience actually as well,

[00:18:06] Antony W: Yeah, Yeah. I, I think a lot of people underestimate that. I mean, I would be the person who wants to be in the salon. Uh, you know, I want to be in that, in the noisy, bustling thing with the whole vibe going on around me. That's, that's what I would want. Um, so yeah, I, I get that. Uh, do any of them want to come back? Do any of them go from Rootz to Endz and then for exactly that reason that they underestimated you've never had it happen?

[00:18:31] Jen B.: Yeah. We've never had it happen. And they always ask. Okay. Like, matter of fact, my team member met with yesterday. That was her first question. Can I go back? I said, absolutely. She was like, oh, for real. I said, a hundred percent. You absolutely can go back. We've never, it's the most asked question. We've never had it happen.

[00:18:50] Antony W: Okay. interesting Alright. So, and, [00:18:53] Jen B.: I find that interesting too to be honest with you.
[00:18:55] Antony W.: yeah. But I think a lot of that is because of you and that you make sure that they really know what they're getting into before they go. So they've sort of worked through a lot of that. Would you think, would you say, Yeah. Let, let ask you this question as well. I, I know that, that you, you know, you are, you are the marketer and you are really into the whole marketing side of it. So rootz has got you as the sort of backbone now, the whole idea of going to Endz is now I'm self- employed. I'm a business unit of one, you know, uh, happens to be owned by the same people, but now I'm my own business. So what I'm asking is what support do they get from rootz? Like, you know, do you offer them support like in in any shape or form? Yeah.

[00:19:38] Jen B.: We do. So they are, they're invited to all education. Okay. So all continuing ed that occurs at rootz, they're invited too

[00:19:48] Antony W: Do they, do they pay for it?

[00:19:51] Jen B.: uh, if it's it depends. Okay. Like, for example, we have a weft educator, uh, coming in, in a couple months. rootz girls are paying for it. The, everyone here would have to pay for it. Um, Individually as well. If it is education based upon points, okay, like we redeem L'Oreal points and we have a cutter coming in, or we have a colorist coming in that they would just be able to come, like, that's comped,
 
[00:20:20] Antony W: Yeah.

[00:20:20] Jen B.: okay? There is is. a, they are, the amount of support they get actually at Endz is what differentiates us Endz from a lot of the other studio rental businesses that are in our market area, okay, because I'm in Endz, they have access to full-time business support anytime they want. Okay. How do I fill out my vendor's license? How do I fill out my tax information? How do I set up my LLC? What software should I choose? I. To set up my business. We do all of that for them, which is a big competitive difference than us. And a lot of the other studio suite businesses that are, are essentially like, here's your apartment building, there's your room.
However you do it is however you do it. [00:21:11] Antony W: Yeah.
[00:21:12] Jen B.: They, people have a lot of questions, [00:21:14] Antony W: Okay.
[00:21:15] Jen B.: you know what I mean? know, I mean, there's, there's a lot, there's a lot of fear that goes into it because they've never been in a position to, to do that.

[00:21:22] Antony W: Yeah. Now, and I get that. What, what I want to ask you about that is that, you know, people want to be self-employed. Okay? So put your big boy pants on, you are going to be self-employed now, and you know, you got to stand up for your by yourself now because you are now in business on your own. Great. So part of being a business on your own. Is that you have overhead. So what I'm asking is, do they, uh, I, I think I know the answers. No, but do they have to pay you for that? Do they have like a concierge fee or a, a marketing fee that they pay you because

[00:21:58] Jen B.: If I do anything, if I do anything like graphic design oriented where there's print material involved, there's a fee for the print material, but that is it. You know, everything else is part of them being in our community. It is a massive perk that it works out. The other thing is, is from a landlord maintenance perspective, we have, you know, a light bulb goes out, um, my chair's broken. Uh, an outlet doesn't work. I am in-house for all intents and purposes can make sure that the handyman is contacted today, or maybe I am the handyman today. You know what I mean? And is going to make sure that we have whatever we need to, to fix that situation. That is a lot different than a lot of businesses that are set up like this because like, well, we'll call, they'll be out this week where, because I'm here, we're going to try to solve the problem now.

[00:23:03] Antony W: yeah, yeah. Because let me just turn it the other way around. In, in where rootz is, there is obviously a landlord, um, assuming you don't own the building, there, there there's a, there's a landlord. You are, you are in business, or the two girls are that own the business. Uh, if there's a problem with a chair or the plumbing or whatever, you, you don't call the landlord. You are in business. Like you
 
deal with that yourself. So, can you see what I'm saying here? They want to go in business by themself. Well, now you're in business by yourself. Like, you know, put your big boy pants on and sort it out

[00:23:41] Jen B.: Yeah. Yeah

[00:23:42] Antony W: so that they get a lot of support. Which is, which is great. I mean, it's, I'm not saying there's anything wrong with that. It's just, I, I was always amazed during Covid, how there were a lot of hairdressers that were in suites who didn't have to pay rent. Um, there were a lot of chair renters who didn't have to pay rent and they couldn't understand. But like, you're in business now. You are on your own. You wanted to be a business on your own.

[00:24:05] Antony W: You still have to pay rent. You had to pay rent to your landlord.

[00:24:09] Jen B.: Yeah, so that was a really, that was a, that brings up a great example. You know, during, let me go backwards. Any time for as long as we've been in business, we have advised. All of our independence to be employees of themselves in the event of catastrophe. Okay? This was even pre Covid.

[00:24:32] Antony W: Yeah.

[00:24:33] Jen B.: When Covid hit, only one girl in Endz took my advice to be an employee of themselves, and she got unemployment right away. She had no delays, okay? All of the independents had long delays, had a lot of red tape that they were working through in Ohio before they got unemployment during the shutdown.

[00:25:01] Antony W: right.

[00:25:01] Jen B.: We as a business decided that we weren't going to charge them rent. We did not. For the two months we were home, we, we had to pay rent. Okay?
Our landlord was
[00:25:11] Antony W: Exactly. You had to pay the rent. Yeah, yeah, [00:25:14] Jen B.: You got to pay the rent. Um, but we did stop theirs and we
stopped theirs because we. We had wished that our landlord would've stopped ours.
Okay. And they didn't. And we, we knew the position and the predicament that they were in, we wanted to do good by them.

[00:25:34] Antony W: Yeah. And, and that's good. And I'm, I'm not saying there's anything wrong with that. It's fantastic. And I know, I know other people whose landlords have
 
[00:25:39] Jen B.: Well, I get, I get asked that though, you know, that my, my team member yesterday was like, what happens when I take a vacation? I said, you pay rent. What happens? What when I'm sick? I said, you pay rent. know, I mean, that's, that's the other side of that, know,

[00:25:54] Antony W: Yeah. And a lot of them have, a lot of them have a problem with that. You know, I go on holiday, what do you mean you've got to pay for that? I'm on holiday. It's like, yeah, but you're a business, you're renting this space, you know?

[00:26:05] Jen B.: What happens if I have a baby? [00:26:07] Antony W: Yeah,
[00:26:07] Jen B.: You better plan for it. [00:26:09] Antony W: yeah, yeah.
[00:26:09] Jen B.: Okay. You're going to take maternity leave you plan for it. You know what I mean? Like those, but those are questions that we get and you're like, I am providing you a box. To do your thing, yes, you're going to get a tremendous amount of support, but you're not my employee. And sometimes it's funny, when they come over here, they want, because they want to be independent, they want to be on their own. Sometimes they find, I find them wanting to act like they work for me. You know, like asking, you know, and that’s

[00:26:39] Antony W: when it suits

[00:26:40] Jen B.: fine. Yeah. But you're like, I don’t know why you care what I have to say. You don’t work for me

[00:26:45] Antony W: Yeah, Yeah.

[00:26:48] Jen B.: It’s a mind shift That has to occur.

[00:26:50] Antony W: Yeah. And I think it's great. Like what you said, you know, at the beginning you said, the way we have set ours up in terms of how we market it, there's a lot of benefits for them. And that is, that is how you are marketing. That is a business opportunity for potential people to come in. That you offer a certain amount of support and that, and that's fabulous. And I totally get how uh, the studio thing, salon suite thing is really good for lots of people. Totally get that. Uh, I'm going to put the other hat on for a minute and, and talk about how. Some salon owners are sort of up in arms about it and oh my God, everyone's leaving to go rental, et cetera. And so the, the conversation I have with them, uh, and other people do, I'm sure you do as well, is Will you have to look at your business and go, well, how can we market our business, our employee based business to make people want to stay and want to be an employee? So that's the question I'm asking you. What, what is the, how do you
 
market to your team in Rootz that they should want to stay at Rootz and, and make it, you know, these are all the benefits of being an employee. What are some of the things that you have in place?

[00:28:00] Jen B.: That's a great question because there's, there's several different dynamics to that. Okay. On one end, yes, of course. I want rootz to be the Coziest Cushiest. All inclusive. How could you ever in a million years not want to work at Salon Rootz? Okay. On the other end of things, and I'll use current day as a, as an example, I have a couple open studios at Endz for the first time. Okay? We had somebody retire, we had somebody have a baby. We haven't filled those spots yet. So part of me wants that cycle of people. I want them to move in, okay? I want them to fill the void. However, for every one body that moves from rootz to Endz, I need two at rootz to replace them

[00:28:58] Antony W: Okay.

[00:28:59] Jen B.: financially. Okay? Even though it's one big pie. Okay. But we don't look at it like that. Once they move here, they're obviously, they're, they're just paying rent. Okay. But when a, a level four or five artist moves on, okay, there is two to three people that it's going to take from my levels, ones twos level zero to replace that revenue. Okay? Now, we are in a really good position right now. I have, I, we just hired two more people. I'm going to be at 20 people as of next week. We are really working our way up to higher employment numbers. That's a great position to be in when I have girls making the transition around follow

[00:29:44] Antony W: Okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,

[00:29:45] Jen B.: you know, but it's, it's being distinct. We use Endz to market for rootz from an employee level because there are a lot of people that know they can't do it right now, now, but they want to do it eventually. So if they get in the rootz pipeline, they know that in three years, four years, five years, eight years, this is an opportunity under the same umbrella that they could carry out their career and still stay under the same the same level

[00:30:17] Antony W: Yeah. Very easy segue. Yeah. Um, there was something I was going to ask you and I forgot now I've just remembered it. You, you were talking about during Covid and you had how one girl that made herself, I forget the terminology you used, you said like an employee of herself or something. Um, you, you, you said there was only one

[00:30:37] Jen B.: I did. I did. Yes.

[00:30:39] Antony W: what did you mean by that? Are you talking about her? The way she'd set up her company legally, that she was an employee of her, of that company. Right. Okay. And so therefore she qualified. Yeah.
 
[00:30:51] Jen B.: what we advise is for you to be a W2 employee of yourself. So set up an LLC. And then be an employee of your own business. Okay? That way then if something happens, a pandemic world catastrophe, how Ohio unemployment and benefits and that works, you would get that because you're an employee.

[00:31:16] Antony W: Yeah. Okay.

[00:31:16] Jen B.: Your set up as an independent, how that works is very different than how it works if you're an employee. The other reason that we tell them that too, is let it automatically set up, get a payroll, a paychecks account, and let it tax you.
Okay? Because Cause inherently, You know, I'll give you an example. You look at your week and you're like, I did $4,000 this week, and you're like, no. Take your rent off. Take $300 off for rent, or 225 for rent. Okay? Now I'm down to 3,700. What did color cost you for the week? Okay, now I'm down to 3,500. Okay. I bought coffee, I bought wine, I bought pop for my guests. Okay, now I'm at 3,400. Now tax it,

[00:32:00] Antony W: Yep.

[00:32:01] Jen B.: okay? You didn't take home $3,100 you might have, but at the end of the 12 months, okay? That's a really common thing here. They hairstylists are inherently like, oh my God, I have to pay my taxes. Or you can set yourself up to where you already paid your taxes.

[00:32:18] Antony W: yeah. Now that's, um, uh, when you mentioned W2 for our non-American audience, W2, a W2 is a tax form basically that is for employees. So, that, that's all a wW2 means is that you're an employee. so what Jen is saying is that she'd set up her own company, limited liability company, whatever, and, uh, made herself an employee of that. So, yeah. And, and what, and the situation that you described that was the same everywhere. Just slightly different name. Well, I won't say everywhere, you know, and you never want to, as well

[00:32:53] Jen B.: you never really want to see those things play out that way, but you're like those that, you know, it seems like a daunting task to have to do that versus showing up. Today I have my square transaction to take the credit card payments or Venmo or whatever. It just seems easy. I show up, I do hair, you pay me Well in the big picture, picture, we're running a business now. business.

[00:33:17] Antony W: exactly.

[00:33:18] Jen B.: You can't operate, you can't operate that way anymore

[00:33:21] Antony W: Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Um, I think you already answered it. You just sort of dropped it in there. Uh, weekly rent. What, what would a studio, what would you be paying on in your studios as an average figure?

[00:33:34] Jen B.: Sure. So our singles are 225.
 
[00:33:37] Antony W: Yeah.

[00:33:37] Jen B.: Our oversized singles are 300, and our doubles are 430 [00:33:43] Antony W: Right. Okay. So yeah, that's,
[00:33:45] Jen B.: people,

[00:33:46] Antony W: yeah, exactly. Um, I mean, I talk to a lot of people with suites and they're paying around that sort of $400 mark depending on what city you're in. so you know that, that seems, you know, like that's in line with everything else I hear. Now then the other thing that you just spoke about, Is where that revenue goes. And, uh, and that's, there, there's always a, there's a lot of naivety when you hear young, I, I, I shouldn't say young, I'm trying to edit what I say before I say the wrong things. Uh, but there's a lot of naivety about, a lot of people say, I'm going to leave working for Joe Schmoe because he takes all my money, or he keeps half my money, or she keeps half my money. And it's like, really? You know, you surely, you're, you're smarter than that. You know what I mean? Like, you've, like, they don't get to keep very much of their half at all. Um, and you were sort of running through that and I was, I'd put some notes down to sort of ask you about this, and I know you said, I'm famous for asking direct questions for people and I, I hate listening to a podcast when I'm listening to it and I'm thinking, Ask them this, ask them that. And they don't. And they don't ask cause they're being super polite. Yeah, exactly. exactly. cause that's what people want to know. And so people want to know, well, how much do they pay in rent? and, and so the other part of that is always trying to understand, well, where does the money go? And so I've, I've put down, uh, some percentages here, uh, just to give young hairdressers an understanding of where does all that money go? Because if they're working for you as an employee, and they might be thinking Well only get 50% of what I do, and she keeps the other 50%. Let's talk about where that 50% goes. So you, if you're a stylist, you, I think you mentioned the figure four grand a week, if you are doing four grand a week, $4,000 behind the chair, which is good if you're doing that.

[00:35:33] Antony W: So not everyone can do that sort of money, but if you're doing four grand a week behind the chair and, let's say 50% of that you are going to keep for yourself. So there's, there's a couple of grand, uh, now out of the other, uh, couple of grand, you've also got to pay rent. So if I'm, I'm going to average it as a percentage, I'm going to say 10% of 4,000. So there's 400. So that's in line with what you said, a, a double suite, et cetera. and then as a product percentage, as a ballpark. And it varies depending on if they do a lot of color work or not. And let's face it, today they do a lot of color work. I'm going to say it's going to be 10% of that 4,000. So, you know, ballpark, let's aim for 10%. then of course you've got to pay, um, tax. So you know there's going to be 15% of that 4,000, it's going to go towards tax. And then you've got all those operating

[00:36:21] Jen B.: might low. That, might 15% might be low.
 
[00:36:24] Antony W: Yeah, exactly. That's, that's the low point. Exactly. Yeah. But, and, and then we've got, um, operating costs. So you are, you are in business on your own now, so you've got to pay your own insurance. You've mentioned Square, you've got to pay for all your own tech. You've got your own bank fees, you've got your own credit card fees. You're paying for generally not with you. Uh, generally you're paying your own training in education. You're paying for your own accountant, you're buying your own tools. It, it's all gone. The other 50% on the numbers that I wrote down, it's all gone. Like, you know, there's just,

[00:36:58] Antony W: that's the reality, isn't

[00:36:59] Jen B.: I'm gonna say the take home difference is, you know, we pay 50% at rootz, we have service fees, we have new client deductions. We talked about that in the last podcast.

[00:37:12] Antony W: Actually we talked about that off air, so I'm going to pick up on that with you in a minute. So we'll come back to there. cause I thought that was really interesting.

[00:37:19] Jen B.: yeah. So here at Endz I'm going to say that the average is taking true take home between 65 and 73% high end on the low end you're making in the 60 percent’s True. Take home. now that depends how you run your business too

[00:37:41] Antony W: Yeah, yeah,

[00:37:42] Jen B.: You know, that depends upon, you know, claiming tips. That depends upon, um, claiming cash. That depends upon, you know, lots of other things. You know, credit card fees are another part of that, know, that's not really talked about. That, you know, you might charge somebody $140. You're not getting all $140, you're probably getting 137. Okay. But over a period of time, those little dollars add up.

[00:38:09] Antony W: yeah, yeah. Exactly. Big time. And a lot of people forget about all that stuff, so,

[00:38:13] Jen B.: Yeah, it goes fast,

[00:38:15] Antony W: yeah. But from what you've just very clearly said in your Businesses side by side. You are saying that the independants earn more money?

[00:38:26] Jen B.: They do.

[00:38:27] Antony W: They do. They do earn more money. Great. Okay. Uh, but they have a lot more responsibility as well. Uh and they have to do their own marketing and all that sort of stuff.
 
[00:38:36] Jen B.: It's, it's deciding if that additional 10 ish percent is worth it.

[00:38:42] Antony W: Yeah. Because there's all that other downtime that they are running their own

[00:38:47] Jen B.: You're managing your own [00:38:48] Antony W: do their own
[00:38:49] Jen B.: your own color, you're, you know, you're handling your own back bar, you're handling your own beverage, you're

[00:38:54] Antony W: social media. Yeah. All that.

[00:38:57] Jen B.: social media, you know, you're marketing, all those things, know. Now what we find here, at least for us, the girls that are here are more along the lines on, they have a, a wonderful clientele they've had for 25, 20 years, 15 years.
And they're not really doing, they do that because they have to be current. They're not actually doing that to derive business, um, which is different.

[00:39:23] Antony W: Yeah. Um, now you, you just said also we, we, we are sort of switching between dollars and percentages and you said, you know, 60% as a, as a, as a take home for a renters, not uncommon. you say that the renters are doing the same sort of revenue each week for suite owners? As a stylist, that's an employee. Is there a difference there? Because 60% of,

[00:39:51] Jen B.: Um, that's a that's great [00:39:53] Antony W: what?
[00:39:54] Jen B.: Yeah, that's a great question. What I have found in my research has found, you know, we raise prices at rootz more readily than, than studio Suite renters do here. Matter of fact, I always encourage them, they need to be assessing their business every six months. You know, like, like any coach, any coach would,

[00:40:13] Antony W: Yeah.

[00:40:13] Jen B.: where they're a little bit less reluctant to do those things because they get comfortable here. You know, so because they're comfortable, they're less, they're not really thinking in that mind of like, Hey, everyone's color went up like three times the past two years, maybe

[00:40:28] Antony W: yeah, yeah,

[00:40:29] Jen B.: You should be compensating for that. You're eating into, you know, and they're a little bit reluctant to want to do that.
 
[00:40:37] Antony W: yeah. Because it's, there's no one to blame it on. [00:40:41] Jen B.: Correct.
[00:40:41] Antony W: like, wow, little old me, I just work here. Don't blame me.

[00:40:44] Jen B.: Yeah. Well, you know, some of them say it's awkward. It's awkward because they know that's coming to me and you're like, what? Your cost of operating business went up. a very basic conversation. I have to pass on this cost, whether it's minimal, whether it's 10%, regardless of what it is. At some point, that's going to catch up to you.

[00:41:02] Antony W: yeah, How do you separate your role in the, like you are overseeing both those businesses? Um, Yeah. How do you separate your role from a marketing perspective? Like you've got two very different businesses. It's not your job to be their marketeer, but it is your job to be the marketeer in, in, uh,

[00:41:23] Jen B.: to fill the, I need fill the, suites. I need to fill the suites here at end. So I'm the marketer behind filling the suites. Okay. So Endz, I'm selling a business at rootz. I'm selling a service.

[00:41:36] Antony W: Yeah. So at rootz you are filling a column, you're selling a column, you're filling a column at, at Endz, you're filling a, a suite. Yeah. Okay.

[00:41:45] Jen B.: It's suite [00:41:46] Antony W: So,
[00:41:47] Jen B.: So it's two very different perspectives with

[00:41:50] Antony W: yeah. Now, now from the salon owner's perspective, um, which business model is the most profitable for them? Yes, I would've thought so. Yeah. So, so you, yeah, because basically you're just a landlord, aren't you?

[00:42:08] Jen B.: but it's fixed. fixed. Okay. Now this amount goes out. This amount comes in. It's a very, very basic P and L math equation where rootz, there's, there's much higher volume and it's a much larger algorithm,

[00:42:23] Antony W: yeah exactly.
[00:42:24] Jen B.: which ultimately endz up in, in being more profitable. [00:42:27] Antony W: Yeah, yeah. Now you, you said something and I jumped in
and said, no, we actually didn't talk about that in the recording. I, at least I don't think
we did. Um, I know we definitely talked about it off air, and I was very interested in that, and I was going to ask you about that again today. So it's about this idea of a,
 
service fee for new clients. And I, and I find this fee, a service charge or what, whatever. So do you want to just tell us about that, because I thought that was really interesting.

[00:42:55] Jen B.: Sure. I get asked about this a lot actually. So we have, so we pay 50%. That is our, that is our commission. Right? The only reason we could be successful with the 50% commission rate is we have a service fee that the guest pays. Okay? So it's tacked onto each service and there's no commission paid out on it. That amount of money goes to the house. Okay? So example, um, $300 bailage volume. is a fixed rate of 15. $15,

[00:43:31] Antony W: So that comes off before the 15% is paid. Before the 50% is paid.

[00:43:36] Jen B.: correct. The new client deduction [00:43:41] Antony W: Yeah.
[00:43:41] Jen B.: is, comes off after, like, it comes off with the, with the split of commission. So example, I did $150 partial highlight, and the new client deduction is
$10. I'm going to get paid on 140 of the 150 one time

[00:44:00] Antony W: You get 50. Oh, so it's only one time. So new, a new client. The house gets, what percentage was it? or dollar? 10 bucks.

[00:44:09] Antony W: for whatever service of every new client, but it's only a one time thing, and then the stylist gets 50% of the remainder once that 10 bucks has come off. Right.

[00:44:19] Jen B.: and the reason behind that is, is we went through a period of years where we felt like our team was a little bit reckless in how many new guests that they got. And actually the level of service that they were providing, we felt like there was a level of unappreciation there, because they'll just get 10 new clients next week and they'll just get 10 new clients the next week. And we average well over a hundred new clients, 110 new clients a month. So we have a, a large pipeline of new guests. This is so that they want to take value and they want to. Make sure that they do everything so that, that whether that guest returns to them or that guest returns to the salon, there's no longer that deduction for that guest. You follow me?

[00:45:03] Antony W: it. Yeah. Got it. Okay. Alright. from a marketing perspective, I mean, that is your background, that's your profession is, isn't it? That's you've got a degree in marketing. Uh, this actually could be one of those questions that you never finishes. I was No, I was going to say to you, what do you do from a marketing perspective, because you are a marketer that most other salons don't do. So there, it's going to be a list, isn't it? There's a lot of stuff that you do that other salons don’t do
 
[00:45:34] Jen B.: Well, the, you know, we, we do everything in-house, so we don't outsource anything. Like some, some people think I'm the quarterback and there's some, a company does this and a company does that, and a company does this. I do, I am. Everything. So from building our own website, okay, I am, I'm going to call myself an expert in WordPress SEO Okay. Managing of the Google Business page. You know, everyone does the basics. They're on Facebook, they're, do Instagram, they do TikTok, things like that. We make all of our own in-house, instructional videos on YouTube. I do all of those, and I wasn't inherently, uh, that was, trial and error, self-taught, all of it, including, including WordPress. Okay? When I learned WordPress, rootz didn't even have a website at the time, and I had a friend who was a, a web developer, and he was like, this is a new format that's coming out. Once I set it up for you, you'll be able to use it. Now, 15 years later, I use different platforms. I use different templates. I'm very, very, very, very well versed.

[00:46:47] Jen B.: And WordPress and do, and do all of that. I run all the backend, all the SEO That probably is one that costs salons a lot of money that we don't have to pay out on because I do that, you know, some pay monthly, you know, there's a, there could be a very large fee that goes into running things like that. And I do that all in house. We also don't do any, uh, paid ever advertising. All of our new guests are organically derived, and we're really fortunate to be in a position to where we organically derive all of our new guests. We've never paid a penny for a boosted post on social platforms.

[00:47:25] Antony W: Yeah, sure. Okay. Do, do you think that salons, I mean, cause you're not a big business, often people would assume that, oh my God, if you've got an in-house marketing specialist, they must have 20 I mean, I know businesses with 20 salons, they don't have an in-house marketing specialist, or even a marketing department. It's sort of just one of the many hats that someone else is wearing. Uh, Obviously you'd, I, I think you'd say yes. Um, so talk to that. You know, do you think Salon should invest in having a marketing, you know, expert specialist

[00:47:55] Jen B.: I more are now than when I, when I first, rolled into this position with rootz, I was an anomaly. There wasn't one out of 500 had us, had somebody like me. Okay. Now, now, it's a much more readily available position within salons, but it's more, you know, I'm not just a director of marketing. I'm a, I run business operations, I do backend, I do budgeting. So it's more of a diverse role. It's not just a marketing role, but my position in salons is much more common now, 15 years later than it was 15 years ago. 15 years ago. Salon today was writing articles about the fact that they had me, And that's what was happening. Now, I don't want to call myself a dime a dozen, but it's a much more readily, common position

[00:48:48] Antony W: Even in your size? [00:48:50] Jen B.: yeah. Yeah.
[00:48:51] Antony W: Wow. Okay. All right. That's interesting. Uh, what's the number one bit of advice you'd give to salon owners everywhere when it comes to marketing?
 
[00:49:02] Jen B.: Ooh, I like that. Consistency is key. [00:49:07] Antony W: Yeah.
[00:49:08] Jen B.: And what I find nine times outta 10 when talking with salons that have a marketing hiccup is they believe that they could set, they could be active today

[00:49:20] Antony W: Yeah.

[00:49:21] Jen B.: and not touch it for three months. And they're like, oh, I did that three months ago. And they're like, well, that was three months been buried in social feed. Now your website is updated. You know, consistency is always the key. And it's making a concerted effort to do that. You know, it's making a concerted effort to make that happen because when you're behind the chair, when you're running a business, you know all the other things that go into operating a salon, if you aren't keeping, the fresh blood coming in the front door, eventually that well's going to run dry. And marketing now too, you know, there's marketing, there's branding, there's guest experience. Guest experience is a very large piece of marketing now, because that's your inward message for the guest, and that's what they're going to tell people And that's one thing that a lot of salons forget. they want to pride themselves on just customer service. Customer service is what happens when we drop the ball, when we failed. Guest experience happens naturally. That is how I feel. The second I walk in, I was like, well, my level of customer service is great. Every, that's not what you're shooting for. We are targeting guest experience, customer service is what happens when we have to fix a problem.

[00:50:41] Antony W: Yeah. Okay. That's a good distinction. Yeah, I like that.

[00:50:44] Jen B.: and keeping that separated is very important that's, again, that all falls under this marketing umbrella.

[00:50:52] Antony W: yeah. Exactly. Exactly. Okay. e-commerce, I, I said at the beginning we were going to talk about e-commerce, and I know that's a big, big part of your business and I know it was something that was really important to you in Covid, and, you, it, it was sort of, i, I, I think you told me this again before we were recording, that you, it was fortuitous that you had sort of got all that ready and then Covid struck and it was like, just turn this baby on and watch it sing. So,

[00:51:19] Antony W.: So,

[00:51:19] Antony W: about that

[00:51:21] Jen B.: Yeah, so we had, that was a great position to be in. I mean, timing couldn't have been, timing couldn't have been any better. at the time we had talked about going online for two years and it took about a year and a half to build that platform. So that was actually set up two years, even pre Covid. Okay. And we would
 
actively sell online. Okay. We would do a couple hundred dollars a month here and there when, you know, something wasn't in stock, we had them buy it online. So it gives us time to order the product, so on and so forth. Okay. So we didn't lose the sale. Okay? We were still able to make the conversion, well Covid hit. And it was like, well, how are we going to generate business? We are going to blast the heck out of support us by buying retail, buying root kits, buying gift cards to be used in the future. Salons were scrambling to get that set up. And I was just like, like, turn, flip the switch. Now we're really going to push towards it. During Covid, I think I helped over 30 salons get their foot going of how to sell, how to get that e-commerce, uh, WooCommerce, you know, whatever platform they were using, set up for themselves so that they can start to sell something. Now, granted, the legwork that it takes to, um, get that going is hundreds of hours. You know, rootz has over 486 products available online. That's every picture, every product description, quantities, you know, there's quite a bit that rolls into all of that. That's not something that you're going to just flip on today. Okay. You know, setting up shipping and, and things like that are all pieces to that puzzle.

[00:53:08] Antony W: And, and post Covid have you maintained a, a strong e- commerce

[00:53:14] Antony W.: Yes, it changed everything. changed everything for our own internal clientele. and we tend to, Davines is one of the brands that we carry, and I find that we ship Davines to a lot of rural states where Davines isn't readily available.

[00:53:31] Antony W: Okay. All and it your existing her as well. [00:53:36] Jen B.: Yep. yeah.
[00:53:37] Antony W.: Yeah, I, I know someone, uh, someone else who's recently set up seo and he was a, uh, uh, e-commerce and he was saying that he was amazed at how many people in sort of rural, he happens to be in Australia, in, in rural Australia, were buying products, which, you know, he was shipping out to them. so you said couple of hundred bucks a week pre covid. so what sort of money would it, would you be happy with for it to do now?

[00:54:02] Jen B.: Uh, we do anywhere from 700 to a thousand dollars a in retail and for us, that's, I'm happy with that.

[00:54:09] Antony W: Good, good. Okay. And has it had an impact, a negative impact on your salon, retail or not?

[00:54:17] Jen B.: Oh, not at all. No, I mean, you know, our guests, our radius of our business, um, our clients are anywhere from, one mile to 45 ish miles away. so if you came in today and you forgot to buy your shampoo, you don't want to drive back to get it, you know, we ship it for you, you know, and for a long time, we shipped for free. I just recently started charging for shipping. and we, we still, we split the difference. So we don't even charge the full amount because we want, we want to encourage our guests to buy, you we want, to encourage them to buy online.
 
[00:54:53] Antony W: yeah. exaclty

[00:54:53] Jen B.: When, when it, when they can.

[00:54:55] Antony W: Yeah. and, and so, before we wrap up, I would need to ask you about AI. And it is just, Like, it's just incredible. It's like this year AI has just gone bang, and it's just every time I get an I've, I've got a folder in my email and I call it AI resource, you know? and I just keep putting all these emails in there under the, I must get to that and read it. It's just an avalanche of stuff happening, and it's incredible and it's exciting. and it is changing in a lot of ways, it's going to change, uh, it's going to change everything. What do you see, what impact do you see it having, in your business, in, in your role as a marketeer? Uh, what impact do you see it happening in the industry

[00:55:36] Antony W.: I mean,

[00:55:37] Jen B.: I think it's exciting. I think it's exciting. you know, I am on the fence with how much, okay. Like, I'll give you an example. I think it would be, it's amazing for auto replies to text messaging within our salon software. Okay. I think that could be, that could be amazing. There are. I'll say I'm excited to see where it goes, but also while being apprehensive of not putting all your eggs in one basket,

[00:56:08] Antony W: Yeah,

[00:56:08] Jen B.: You know, because with every big tech jump there could likely be, you know, there's, you know, five steps forward, two steps back while you work out the kinks, know,

[00:56:19] Antony W: Yeah.

[00:56:20] Jen B.: Uh, from a marketing perspective, the easier we could make it for our guests to do anything, the more accessible we could be, the easier we make absolutely. To make a reservation, to solve a problem, to buy a product, the more you're going to win, because you're in your, you're in their face, you're active, you're accessible, you're making it easy

[00:56:43] Antony W: Yep. Exactly. And that's, that's got to be a win. Well talk about a game changer though, isn't it? You know, like the industry I started in and the industry that I work in now are just like being completely reinvented like every industry, you know? and some of them will be decimated, like always happens, when there's any major leap forward in tech. Okay.

[00:57:05] Antony W.: right. We need to wrap up where, Jen, where can people, if they haven't listened to their last uh, episode, where can they connect with you on Instagram or other social media channels?
 
[00:57:15] Jen B.: Yeah, absolutely. So on Instagram is probably the best. It is. Jen LeBlanc. Underscore Ohio and LeBlanc is spelled L E B L A N C. Um, or you could follow us at Salon rootz and rootz is with the Z. I'd love to hear from you.

[00:57:31] Antony W: Great. Okay. Well, I will put those links, on our website, uh, at grow my salon business.com and in the show notes for today's podcast. So, if you are listening to this, uh, podcast with Jen LeBlanc and have enjoyed it as much as I have and got as much from it as, what I know you would've done and what I certainly have, do me a favor, take a screenshot on your phone. And share it to Instagram stories. And don't forget to subscribe and leave us a rating and review on the Apple Podcast app. So, to wrap up, Jen, thank you so much, uh, once again for being so generous with your, thank you, with your time and stuff, and we'll, we'll get you, but I'm sure there's lots of things we haven't spoken about that we

[00:58:08] Antony W.: I am sure. [00:58:08] Antony W: can, regroup with.
[00:58:10] Antony W: So, fantastic. Thank you very much for being with us and, uh, I'll look forward to the next time we talk.

[00:58:16] Jen B.: Absolutely. It's a pleasure. Have a wonderful day. [00:58:18] Antony W: Cheers. You too.
[00:58:19] Antony W.: Thank you for listening to today's podcast. If you'd like to connect with us, you'll find us at grow my salon business.com, or on Facebook and Instagram at Grow My Salon Business. And if you enjoyed tuning into our podcast, make sure that you subscribe, like, and share it with your friends .Until next time, this is Antony Whitaker wishing you continued success.