Gina made a terrible lasagne. Boz debunks the myth of chicken.
Carl Buddig beef bags, Doritos, smoked soup, Colombian food,
HOKAs,
FULL TRANSCRIPT (unedited):
2 (10s):
And I'm Gina Pulice.
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We went to theater school together. We survived it, but we didn't quite understand.
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And at 20 years later, we're digging deep talking to our guests about their experiences and trying to make sense of it all.
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We survived theater school and you will too. Are we famous yet?
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Hello? Hello. Hello survivors. It is. I Gina reporting to you live. I mean, it's live to me, but it's not live to you because you most definitely aren't hearing it in the exact moment. I'm saying it, but you get the idea. It's Monday night, I'm here at my house sitting in my room where I always record when I talked to boss and I'm I'm, I'm coming on here to tell you that. Hmm. Do you know that expression inside baseball?
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I don't understand when people say, oh, that's too inside baseball. Because for me, all I care about is the inside of something. I don't even like baseball. I'd love to be inside baseball. You want to show me where they get the dirt off their cleats. Great. You want to show me what kind of savvy they have to use on their cracked hands from rubbing? Oh, that says this is going to sound sexual. I don't mean it that way, but from holding the bat. Yeah. I want to see that you want to, you want to tell me about contract negotiations? I mean, I want to hear that stuff. I want to hear that stuff more than I want to hear about, or, you know, like actually watch baseball anyway.
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I'm, I'm bringing this phrase up because I've never understood why people, don't, what people think it's bad to be inside baseball. And also by way of telling you that today's episode is going to be a little inside baseball. We record every week. We interview people every week. And at the very beginning, we had so many interviews stacked up that it was months between when we would record somebody and when it actually aired. But once all of that stack got aired, now we pretty much go week to week and that's fine, unless, and until we have a cancellation or two, as the case is for us right now, we had two back-to-back cancellations.
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So one time when we had this, I put, I repaired an old episode, which I thought was really a great episode. And I'm really glad I repaired it. And then a couple of times we've aired episodes with just BAAs and I talking with no interview. And the reason I like to put something up is because personally, when I listened to podcasts and people take a week off, I really hate that. I really hate when a podcast I'm really used to listening to, you know, coming out on a certain day and like, that's the day I'm gonna, Ooh, it's Tuesday. I get to whatever, walk my dog and listen to my favorite podcast.
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I hate it when those people take a vacation, but that's what I did. I took a vacation last week and boss was going to record one solo, but her interview canceled. And then the person that we're supposed to speak to tomorrow canceled. So honestly, we're probably gonna have the same problem next week, unless something magical happens. And we're able to interview somebody else before this weekends and who I'm saying all this to say, we do have an episode today. It is not previously aired material. It is boss and I talking, but it is not an interview.
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And if that's not your jam that I get it, you can, you can just skip this one. Maybe this is not, maybe this is not the one for you, but if you're like me and you are inside baseball and you like things that are inside baseball. And by the way, I mean, it's not like it's inside baseball in the sense that we're talking about, you know, like the platform that we're hosting our podcasts, it's not actually really inside baseball. It's just not, it's just not our typical episode. Anyway, I also want to take this opportunity to think we have actually kind of a surprising number of listeners in other countries.
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And I have never done something that I've always wanted to do, which is acknowledge all of these wonderful listeners. And so I'm going to do that right now. First we have New Zealand and I happen to know the person who listens to us from New Zealand or at least one of the people. And he Sean Spratt. And he went to theater school with us. And one day we'll have him on the podcast, but thank you, Sean Spratt for your listenership. Very much appreciated. We have listeners in Spain, the United Kingdom, Saudi Arabia, Germany, Singapore, Russia. Although not for the last couple of months.
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If you know what I mean. France, Jordan, Nepal, Canada, Australia, Brazil, Israel, Virgin islands, pork bowl, Rico, Mexico, Austria, Sweden, Palestine, the Netherlands, Morocco, South Korea, Japan, Finland. I heard Finland has great coffee. I'd like to go there someday. Bangladesh, Uganda, Slovakia, Poland, Ireland, Indonesia, and BA. Right? Thank you to all of you, whoever you are out there listening to our little podcast. I appreciate you.
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I do. I appreciate you deeply. I am also going to take this opportunity to recognize some fabulous comments that people have left on apple podcasts in the form of reviews. Something. I also greatly appreciate Larkin and Ellis says what a fun show to listen to and to have communion with other theater folks. So many of us survived, thrived or crashed. That's true. Afterschool and hearing tales of everyone's experience brings such humanity to the process. Jen and Gina are delightful and treat each, each guest with such grace, highly recommend. Thank you, Larkin Ellis.
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Next. We have Zoe incredibly warm, funny and fascinating. These hosts get the best out of their guests. If you are involved in any part of the acting business, this will be a fascinating podcast for you. If you went to any theater school, this could be an opportunity for immense healing and processing things you didn't even know needed more attention. I laughed so hard. I cried. It was bad. It was better than cats. Thank you, Sophie. All right, BJP. Oh, that's I know who this is. This is Brian Brian Polak, who has also a great podcast. I mean, he had an episode on ours, but he's the host of the subtext podcast, which is all about playwrights.
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And very interesting. If you haven't listened to it, please do his latest urban. I don't know if it's his actual latest, but one of his most recent ones features Tracy Letts. So that's cool. Anyway, Brian says not only are the interviews always free range and fascinating, but the conversations between Jen and Gina that begin each episode are warm and fun. It's like catching up with old friends every new time. Every time a new episode comes out. Thank you. Brian Love that. Scott says this podcast is such a gift, exclamation point. Anyone who has dabbled in the fine arts can relate to the conversations that the hosts and guests are discussing. I would also go as far as to say, listening to this podcast is like having a free therapist, especially if you are embarking on a career in the performing arts.
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Thank you, Scott. Lovely Scott. Oh, and then here's one I wrote for myself. Yes I did. This is an inside baseball moment. I wrote my own review because I feel at times very desperate to get reviews. So I wrote one for myself. Love the way it is to interrogate the psychological makeup of actors and others who pursue an education at a conservatory. Thank you, Gina. Thank you for your comments, Gina. What a sweet girl. You are. Jimmy McDermott says these ladies dig deep. Thanks Jimmy. Somebody who calls themselves four lifetimes ago, love that love listening to this podcast.
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As it leads me down memory lane, I'm also able to reflect on my own time, spent at theater school and what it meant to me and how it shaped me into who I am today. Gina and Jen are fantastic hosts, very welcoming with thoughtful questions. Thank you for lifetimes ago that we've got eat Beth James, this pod delightfully dives into fascinating memories and lessons from dream chasers in their youth. A must listen for everyone who has even entertained a life in theater, yay to Jen and Jayna for bringing this quirky subject to life in such a real and interesting way. Thank you. E Beth James, who was nice. Happy in Galveston.
2 (9m 48s):
Just finished listening to y'all's interview of my son's Seiler. Oh yeah. Okay. So this is sailor's mama y'all did an amazing, oh, I'm going to read it like I'm from Texas. Just finished listening to y'all's interview with my son, Tyler Siler, not Tyler. Tyler is a very Texas named Seiler. Of course y'all did an amazing job. I've known him for 47 years and I learned so much about him. I never thought for a minute that he'd be bullied at theater school, not my Sattler, but it was a real relief to know it didn't happen. Something he didn't mention is that he was a year ahead in school and contracted a ripper in case mano right before leaving for college. So he started college in Chicago as a 17 year old with the case of mano and Dave.
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Great. It was really fun. Hearing him recount the shows he was in that bear costume was the worst. I'll look forward to hearing interviews with Kevin and PJ. Great. And we did interviews with Kevin and PJ. So I hope you liked those Mrs. Siler. Thomas' mom. All right. You got the idea. I love these nice reviews. Thanks to everybody who gave one who wrote one. And if you are not among those who have read, reviewed us rated or reviewed us, what are you waiting for? Literally? What are you right this second? What are you waiting for? A pause.
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This rambling that I'm doing and go leave us a review. Okay. Thanks. Appreciate it. All right. I think I've, I think I've yammered long enough. Please enjoy this conversation. Or actually to be honest, it's like three different conversations that it edit it together. Please enjoy this chit chat sesh with me and buzz love you. I'm sorry to hear about your lasagna. I made the word, it was disgusting.
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I a leftover rotisserie chicken and I Googled like, what can I do with my leftover rotisserie chicken? And I saw this thing make a lasagna with mush. It happened to be all the ingredients that I had and needed to use mushrooms, spinach and rotisserie chicken. Now I will say, I thought to myself that doesn't sound like a good lasagna, like rotisserie chicken. Yeah. I don't know mushrooms are okay. It's finishes. Okay. But the rotisserie chicken and then it was a white sauce and girl, it was, I mean, simply inevitable. And I'm the person in the family who, because I make the food, even if it's not good, I eat it because I spent a lot of time making that, you know, I had this one had to make its way to the, to the trash and media Mente.
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Nobody, even nobody else. Even my son is lactose intolerant. So he really can't use something like that. Anyway, I had made him a special version. He can eat cheddar, I guess, letters like certain cheeses that are made to him. A version of it, the head cheddar cheese, he actually said it was really good. Maybe it was better than, you know, because it had more like Tang to it. But that's the thing you need to have some acidity. This had zero acidity. It was just right. That's very interesting. I was thinking about that on my walk over here. Cause I saw your posts and I was like, yeah, I think that white sauce is really hard to pull off. Like yeah, unless maybe you have to have like tons of butter and then, but then the rotisserie chicken, which reminds me of a story.
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So my, my mom, okay. After Thanksgiving, right at we'd have this Turkey carcass. Right. And then she'd make the Turkey soup. Okay. But one year my uncle, aunt and uncle came from San Francisco, you know, they're from San Francisco. So they wanted to smoke and brine the Turkey. Okay. Let me tell you something. If you've ever had a smoked Turkey soup, it's the most disgusting Turkey, Turkey noodle soup. I mean, I ate it and I was like, mom, what, what, what, what what's happening? And she was like, well, I just, I said, wait, this is the smoked Turkey. You can't have smoked soup.
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It's like the word wait, was your mama? No, no, but she, okay. So my mom was not ever like literally we, I grew up on McDonald's and I don't know if I've told the budding beef story here. Okay. So kind of one thing. So our lunch has kids. Oh my God. It's no wonder that I have food issues. Like our lunches kids and I don't look, she was doing the best she could. I don't, I I'm. I'm just sick. It's a travesty. What went on. So we had in a lunch bag, a whole bag of fake Karl budding beef bags, which are, which are just fake beef. I don't know if you've ever seen it in the store.
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Go in the cold cut section. I don't even know if it's legal to sell this shit anymore. But they had Carl budding beef, which wasn't real beef. Yeah. Oh, it was like a vegan thing or no, no, no. It's like spam, like processed beef. So like processed. Yeah. Like processed beef and beef beef. Did she say beef bag? Yeah. Okay. So it's in a bag in a bag and, and there's like 20, probably 24 slices in a bag. My mom would put the whole bag in our lunch. So we'd have 20 and it was salty. No wonder. I mean like it's all, she would just throw the whole bag in.
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It was probably $2 or bag at that time. So she would throw the whole bag of beef in and then yeah. Well she wasn't, I mean, my mom was literally like, let me just work and fuck these people. And then, okay. So that was that a bad and it wasn't like back then they didn't have the small snack size bags. So it was like a snack ish size bag of Doritos, which we would wrap each Dorito and a piece of beef. Oh God. Okay. So Doritos. Okay. It was Doritos, a beef fat. I'd be like, mom, there's no food. And she'd be like, grab yourself a beef bag for lunch. Be fat. Just a bag of obese.
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Yeah. And it was so that it was so salty. I remember it. Okay. So, so I'd have the Doritos and the beef bag and it have been so thirsty after lunch. Well, no wonder I have like I high blood pressure. I'm like, this is, this is the impetus for the whole thing. Then it would be a Capri sun to wash it down and then dessert for dessert. It was literally okay. My mom thought she was doing this great thing by getting hostess, went through a phase of doing hostess light. I don't know if you remember, they had light and they had light cupcakes. So it was like a plastic version of their real co she would throw one of those in there. That was my lunch for probably 10 years.
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Well, every day, like, yeah. Do you ever, could you ever by hotline? Yeah. So Friday, sometimes the hot lunch was literally the square pizza and tater tots. Right, right. Certainly were not, there was no chance of you getting nutrition. I had no vegetables or fruit ever, like ever. And then when she would cook and my dad, you know, he didn't do shit. So, but when she would cook, it would be like weird shit. Like she would make vats of like beef goulash. She's Colombian. What is she making beef goulash for? It was why didn't she make Colombian food? Not, it's not my favorite thing. It's a lot of, some of it's good, but she, she wanted to just assimilate and fuck her past understandably, but also it's a lot of starches.
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It takes a lot of time. It's a lot of like flowery doughy, everything. So it wouldn't have been that much more nutrition, but it might have tasted better. Yeah, dude, it was, and the goulash would be frozen. Oh my God. She would freeze the goulash. And it was egg noodles. And this meat that had the strange sauce, like tangy, speaking of tangy, but not tangy in the greatest way. And then we'd have to, and I'd be like dad, where, and she was always out of town. I'd be like, dad, I'm not eating this. So we'd order pizza. That was the first. Okay, well this is, this is really sounding so familiar to me. So when I was growing up, my, my mother who worked more than full time, came home every single night and made dinner.
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And you know, she had her repertoire, but I mean, she, she made dinner from, there was nothing she didn't even use. Like, and they didn't really have too much of it then, you know, nothing was really pre-made. She, she, she made dinner and of course I always hated it because it was something like, you know, she cooked fish or she, you know, she had these weird she's from New Mexico. So she has these looks, she puts all of us in her spaghetti sauce. It's just like some weird things like that. So there's lots of things that she made that I didn't like, but I so relate to it now. And I relate to your mother freezing the goulash because it's just like every night I have to cook dinner every night.
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And of course I have this panel of critics. That's just like everything I make disgusting. If it's, if it's nutritious in any way, if it's not nutritious, then, then they're really happy with it. Oh my God. That sounds horrible. It's horrible. So I've had this very like passive aggressive relationship and resentful relationship with cooking for my family. We end up ordering out, like I would say, well, definitely two nights a week, but some weeks three. And it's, I hate it. I just, I hate absolutely everything about it. And I also relate to being on the receiving end of food that, you know, it's just like, it's a no win situation.
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It really is. I mean, I think the only thing to do is like, when kids are like two and three, get them to start cooking and be like, fuck it. You're on your own because you know, so my son can really cook. He can really cook, but he's low on the motivation. He's like, that's, you know, that's kinda your job and he's not, he's not wrong. I mean, you know, as much as I, he's not wrong, it is sort of my job. But anyway, yeah. It's, it's, it's, it's not good, but okay. How do we get because of my lasagna? Oh, the lasagna. So yeah, I, I saw, I heard that and I, I, I read that this morning and I was like, Ooh, but the good news is that the chicken? I mean the chicken, well, I guess the chicken would have ended up in the garbage anyway, but did, did the dog eat any of it?
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No. You don't give that to them. I gave, well, I gave no, I gave the dog like the skin of the chicken that I wasn't using on the middle of Sunday. But I forgot to mention, I made it on Sunday, which is the day that you so graciously ordered my family pizza, which is why we didn't meet lasagna on Sunday. We ate it last night, but then we, it was gross. But on Sunday, I guess everybody have to tell everybody where we texting or talking on the phone phone about a funny audition situation. Yeah. And I was telling you, like Aaron had a stomach bug. My daughter had her broken arm. My son, oldest child always has some pains.
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Oh yeah. Yeah. He's like, I woke up, I walked out the door. The first thing I see is just blood all over the bathroom. Mostly has been going on for 30 minutes. It looked like a crime scene in there. I mean, it was just one thing after the other. So you sent me pizza. Yeah. I don't even feel that. And you sent these something we'd never had before. It's wings, boneless wings, but oh my God, those were a huge hit. So yeah, because you know what my thing is because I'm so greedy, Gina is that you don't want the bone getting in the way of the food. So just eat the goddamn, like who needs the bone?
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Like, fuck the bone. Like you want the food? I don't go in for like ribs. I don't go in for anything with a bone. I'm like, I mean, rotisserie chicken. Okay. But I just take the honk of breastfeed off. I don't need a bone getting in my way is what I'm telling you. Okay. But a bone, like, honestly, you might want to reconsider that because food meats cooked with Bonin are usually more flavorful and tender. True. That true debt to debt. So like, I think you're right. Like, but I also am known to love a dry as fuck piece of chicken. I don't yeah. The chicken breasts without anything on it. Yeah. I, there is some weird thing about me that I, and also, you know, which is sad that I love chicken so much because my doctor told me there's no nutritional value in chicken.
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Like, like literally, yeah. The protein, it's like a very small amount of protein in chicken. It's like garbage, garbage it's air. Like basically. So we're killing these chickens and we're thinking we're eating, being healthy. And really she's like, just eat fish like that. You, you just, chicken is not. And I was so sad when, cause she said eat before eight. If you're not going to eat beef, do fish. But like you don't count on a chicken for your protein is what Joe, Kayla, the chicken damn that's up ending my entire, we ate chicken all the time. I'm always like, that's the healthier thing to give my kids. No, I know. And like, I, it was like, I wish it was different, but chicken is like a non issue.
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Like a it's like not really a thing. No. And I was like, well, you know what? Like chick Chick-fil-A is going to be up in arms about this big that's right. And what about eggs? Can we have that's all protein. All. Okay. But she was like, literally I think she said, and I wish we had so many listeners that they would like write in and tell me I was wrong. So if you are listening and tell me that I'm wrong. But like, I think she said that like, there's more protein in like four florets of broccoli than a chicken breast. Oh, that isn't the same. This is reminding me of it's reminding me of when I found out that the reason that we all thought breakfast was the most important meals because the cereal companies put off that how much of our life is just a complete lie foisted.
2 (24m 18s):
Well, I advertising you asked Adam McKay all of it, all of it. All right. We are so influenced by every single thing. Yeah. So anyway that, yeah, I know. I know that. I know that's really true for me. I know 1000% that I will buy something with prettier packaging. Even if it's not as good quality as the other, that's it, it all goes back also to my, my Charleston chew a story. I never told you this. So what? I was little, another something fell. Oh, okay. When I was little, my mom said you can get any candy bar at the store. Right.
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And my greedy ass was like, I'm going to get the biggest candy bar. The biggest one. I I'm going to get the biggest one because I was greedy. Right. And also food was loved to me. Right. So, I mean, that's the truth. So I was like, I'm going. So we went to the store and I remember looking Snickers that I'm like, look at that motherfucking Charleston shoe. It's like 10 feet long. But I didn't know. I never had a Charleston shoe. So my sister got probably something reasonable received, something like that. I got this huge Charleston shoe thinking. I fucking beat the system. I con this bitch out of a huge, it tasted like it was like a strawberry vanilla coaster.
2 (25m 39s):
Right. Just ripped out my retainer. Like that's all I was like, that was my first lesson in greed that in, you know, like the, so there's other stories. But like that, that, that story was like, oh my God, you can't trust. So we've learned this morning, Gina, you can't trust a chicken for your protein and you can't fucking trust a Charleston shoe or a white sauce or a white sauce. That was the first lesson this morning. That was the first lesson. Yeah. Anyway, how is miles? His birthday know? It was really good. It was okay. So there's this place in, in Pasadena that I, my friend works at and she's the funniest.
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I mean, she's like, we're friendly. We're not like good buddies, but she, she works at this place called noodle street. Okay. And you, and it's not noodles. And co which miles told everyone, I was taking him to noodles and fucking co for his birthday. I was like, is that a fast? It's like pancakes. I'm like miles. You can't tell people that I'm not that ridiculous. Not that there's any, well, there is wrong with that. Like, I can't take you there for your birthday. Like that for a celebration ticket, injured husband to Panera. I mean, some people probably do it look, but whatever it's like on the Pinera level, but noodle street is a handmade noodle company in Pasadena. And my friend Christina works there.
2 (27m 0s):
Who's hilarious. And I wanted to take him there. So we went to noodle street and it was one of those things where we're like, Christina, just give us a bunch of food. Right. She literally, there were like 10 dishes. I was like, it was so much food that miles miles does the same. And I love him. And, and look, I obviously have food issues, but he will eat until he throws up sometimes like that, that, or almost like, I've never, I haven't done that. And since I was a child, I don't think. But like he, he can't and it's not like we just so good. He can't stop himself. There's a problem area.
2 (27m 40s):
And so this happened at Ethiopian once where he literally threw up and had to do something in his mouth, you know what I mean? Like he can't stop himself. So he just went crazy and it's really like, they used, you know, she uses it's it's Asian fusion and there's all different, cool spices. Oh my God. So I didn't want to be the jerk. That's like, like censoring my husband, but, or like trying to food shaman, but I'm like, miles, you gotta slow down. Like this is not going to go. Well, like when he busted into the ramen, the beef, the pork res braised ramen after like six other dishes, I was like, oh dude. And so then he was, he was, he had a problem.
2 (28m 21s):
He didn't actually have the problem, but we were, so we, we had to close and we were going to go get ice cream and he's like, I can't do it. Luckily we walked. Right. So we could move a little bit. I was fine, but we don't do really. We don't do presence. So like, not that we don't either. Yeah. Because everything you buy is sort of like, I mean, you know, you, you have the money for what you need and then if you have extra money, it's usually for things that are going to be urgent, like you have to fix something in your car, right. Oh, for me, it's like any extra money goes towards my Hoka recovery sandals and my Hoka. Okay. What's a mile sent me a video of you doing a Hoka dance.
2 (29m 2s):
What is a Hoka? Okay. So whole, because our shoes that I believe hookah Ona, Ona, which is one, one, but it's, I believe Hawaiian, Japanese influent look, I'm ignorant. I don't know. But it is not pronounced one, one. That's all I know it's own. I own a, and so Hoka on it own, it is the name of a company they make for me, with my plantar fasciitis in my right foot and just getting old Sebas shoes. Like I'm wearing my hookup. I'm wearing them right now. You can't see, but like, they are there. Some of them are, but ugly like platform. Like, like they look like a platform sneakers sometimes, but like, like the janky brand, but they aren't, they are there's walking shoes and trail shoes.
2 (29m 52s):
And I tried to run a them and it's a little clunky, but their soul light and they're really expensive, but they also make a recovery slide. Okay. So this is a very Californian situation, but in your, my floors are so hard and because it's fake wood right. In our apartment and I have bad feet. So I, you know, feet problems right now. So my doctor was like, you cannot walk barefoot. And it's so warm in California. Barefoot is the worst you can't work or people shouldn't walk. You should not walk barefoot on hard surfaces. No, no, no. I know it's not a good deal. So even so in California, it's so warm.
2 (30m 34s):
You're like, I'll just put on my flip flops. Terrible idea. Flip-flops should be abolished unless they are orthotic flip-flops this is partially how I got into my problem. So I have higher arches, but even if you have regular arches, my friends, you need support on your feet, especially as you get older. So I didn't know this. It's not even like flip flops or the new high heels, like what we shouldn't be doing, you know? Oh my God, that's insane. And my acupuncture has been saying this Liz I'm so sorry. I'd never listened to you. She said this for years, I saw her 10 years ago. And she was saying this, so recovery slides are Hoka makes a recovery slide, which is basically like a slide, like an Adidas or van slide.
2 (31m 16s):
But they're like super orthopedic. They're not pretty, I mean, minor kind of pretty cause they're blue. But like, they look like, yeah, regular slides, but they're super tall. And this made out of this really light, plastic and rubber, and they are so comfortable for when you come home, you take off your shoes and you don't go barefoot, you go in your recovery. So it's like, how shoes, how shoes? But like for like people would stuff. Yeah. They're really expensive. Like hookahs are like $175, $200 shoes. And the recovery slides are one 50. It's not cheap. Like I had to save up, we used our fucking credit card points for my Hoka collection.
2 (31m 57s):
Like that's what I'm saying. Like that, that's what it's for. Right. So anyway, so my jam and like, you know, people, you know, like I feel like Eddie Vetter is a big Hoka fan. It's like a hippie kind of thing. Okay. Okay. All right. Well, I mean, you know, I'm sure any better has a good need for support. Just like the rest of us so old, like we are. But also I was gonna say like, I actually didn't know, my husband sent you that video. That's hilarious. What? Oh, so cute. He's only ever texted me twice, but both times he started with this is miles, which is adorable. And I want him to be like, I know I have your number saved into my phone, 55.
2 (32m 39s):
So anyway. Yeah. I think he, I think he, you know, I think he thinks that you're the greatest thing ever, which I love because you are, and I'm glad that you have somebody who thinks you're the greatest thing. Oh, it's much better than what I used to have. Yeah. I know much better. The diametric opposite. Opposite. Yeah. No, if people like, no, I was telling someone's people in LA that are like younger than us, but approaching 40 are always like dating in LA is the worst. And I'm like, it is, it's really bad here. It's really, really bad. And I would tell them stories about when I was here in oh six and it was the worst or oh five.
2 (33m 22s):
And it was the worst. Is it really bad? Just because of the problem of like everybody's posturing. Cause it's like that in New York, I think to people, you know, people are at that phase of life where they're really just trying to make something of themselves. And it's a lot about like getting to the next, whatever. Yeah. I think it's what you talk about, which is just straight up sexism where like the men who are okay. So no one, my friend is like 38. I think she said my co-working friend. And she was just saying that like the men, her age, won't date, 38 year olds, they will only date 28 year olds. So she has to date 68 year olds or 58 year olds.
2 (34m 5s):
Okay. All right. That's the problem. It's so boring. I'm like, you know what? Fuck, this it's diagnostic too. Like when you, when you read about people, you know, the Leonardo DiCaprio's of the world who only ever it's like, okay, but so that's, that's either because you are psychologically, emotionally, whatever yourself, still 20. So you need, or it's because you are so narcissistic that you need somebody who's docile and who you can basically tell what, you know, whatever your garbage is too. And they'll believe you because they're so young. I always knew that about Leonardo DiCaprio, but I just recently read about somebody else who it's like, it's like everybody it's like Larry, David, it's not, it's not even like, like sexy young youngish dudes or middle-aged dudes.
2 (34m 53s):
It's like everyone. And, and, and it's just so other dudes will say, oh my God, look at that dude. He got that young chick women don't give a fuck. I said, the other thing is it's. It's interesting. Cause when I worked for Nick cage, he married someone 20 years younger. She was awesome. I loved her. I love that. He's still married. No, I loved Alice. I loved her and it wasn't her fault, but it was a really apparently a match that, you know, didn't last. But what I realized in getting to know Alice was that it's like, right. I it's not, it's not her fault.
2 (35m 33s):
Like she, she's just trying to live her life. And she's also 2020. I was basically five years old. So like let's not get right. So anyway, I also know, like I try not to shame the women in those situations because I'm also like, yeah, but, but it's just a bad situation. I'm just like the And minus your shirt, you did some change.
2 (36m 15s):
I did a costume change. I was listening to God. I love Leslie Odom Jr. In Hamilton so much. Oh, have we never talked about that? I have never seen Hamilton or heard the music. Me neither until like six months ago when Gisa gave me a ticket to Hamilton in LA and it was not obviously Leslie, it was not that cast, but I thought I would hate it. Like I literally was like, I cannot do this. Like I, and then despite my best efforts to hate it for some reason, and to just want to be a hater, I fell in love with that musical, like fell in love.
2 (36m 57s):
And I was like, I'm in I'm all in. I don't, I cannot explain. I think it was also because I was in a place where I was like, holy shit, people make stuff like this, it's it. He takes the acting, the singing, the dancing. I was like, this is like, why we have, you know, this is the best of humanity, the very, very, very, very best. And then I got obsessed with the original soundtrack because it's, it's just, they're they're just brilliant. And the guy who plays Aaron Burr is Leslie Odom Jr. Who I didn't know from shit. Right. Obsessed. Like the guy, Aaron Burr is my favorite character in the whole show. He's the guy who kills Hamilton.
2 (37m 38s):
Right. So yeah. Well Lin Manuel Miranda did. I'm not sure if it was all of the music, but certainly some of the music for, in condo. Have you seen in content? Yeah. So I have such a weird relationship with that movie. I was curious about that, considering that it's about Columbia. Well, the thing is like, and I think people think I'm crazy for saying this, but like they never say it's Columbia. Like they never, they like, they, they have some of the soups they use in the colors they use for the, the, the Colombian flag colors. And like, but they never are specific. And it's also written by so Lin, Manuel is not Colombian. And also Shariece Castro Smith who wrote and developed it is Cuban.
2 (38m 20s):
What do we do? I have to take issue with, they do say that it's Columbia, but it said in the lyrics, I said, oh, okay. I mean, but it's certainly not referenced like how many times Mexico is referenced cocoa. And I did have that thought like, well, Lin, Manuel Miranda is not collided, but the, but the music is really good. Music is brilliant. And I also think it's a huge step in the right direction. I just, I like wanted to love it more is one of those things. And that's a thing. And also I actually loved west side story. I didn't see it yet. See it, and let's have a talk about it.
2 (39m 1s):
I loved it. And people think also I'm insane for that. I was like the acting in west side fucking story is like, it's like a masterclass in this shit. Everyone, every single character I've heard that. I, I really haven't heard too many people not liking it. You know, people have find the musical very problematic and mama mama. And of course, of course everything is problematic. Like everything. Okay. Everything is so problematic. I know I just, yesterday saw the news that Pamela Anderson is going to be Roxie Hart and I you're making the same face that I made.
2 (39m 42s):
And then I saw today on Twitter people saying like, Hey, you know, this is a person who was recently publicly humiliate re humiliated after what re what she originally suffered, which is tantamount to, I guess it's the same it's revenge porn. Yeah. Let's give her this. And also Chicago has always cast stunt done stunt casting. That's that's Erika Jayne. The real Housewives of Beverly Hills was the last person who party. I'm not getting you. Oh my God. Yeah, no, I, I, I think it says, yeah. And also you're right.
2 (40m 22s):
It's like, why not? Like why don't we might as well just like, let her have it. And also she couldn't be fucking good. I don't know from this lady, it could be great. And also like it's Chicago, it's not Shakespeare. Right? Public. I have such a fear. It's funny Shakespeare at the public story. You do well, you might have to tell it cause we might have no interviews today. That's right. We can talk anyway. So I love the Hamilton song, wait for it, which is Aaron Burr's song. And he's talking about his family. And anyway, I just wanted to hate it so much.
2 (41m 4s):
Gina. I wanted to like be the one person that was like, this is garbage and this is, I really wanted that. And then when I saw it, I was weeping openly. And the people next to me were like, cause they had seen it. Everyone's seen it a million times. Right. So people who go to the LA show have seen it like on Broadway or like the Disney plus online situation. I didn't see shit. It was my first experience. And I was like, this is the greatest thing that ever was ever made. It's just, okay, I'm going to have to watch it. I I've been a hater for no good reason. And I should probably watch it. I think the thing that was off putting to me initially is like how much people liked it and how much like, I mean, just like older, white people, I just thought, okay, well you're really excited to hear rapping in this anachronistic way, but I, I think many, many people who I respect greatly think it's one of the best pieces of I did.
2 (42m 8s):
And I also just think like, you're right. Like I think it's all a combo platter, like super, super, super, super white people. Love it. And also, and all people love it too. Right. I mean, girl, I don't know. I just feel like, yeah, that was, it was, it was brilliant. So like on my spare time, like I listened to the soundtrack and I never thought I would do that. It's a very motivating, like I oh, okay. And also like if it's even one 18 super true to history, which I think it is super true in a way, then I've learned more than I ever have about his American history. So like, oh my God.
2 (42m 49s):
That's that is, I believe that I learned what kind of learner I am when I was in ninth grade. Yeah. Ninth grade. I took a very hard history class. It was honors world civilization. Oh my God. I remember that class. I took the same class and got exams were oral. What? So the exams were oral. So basically you had to say the hits, the broad points of the history of civilization from beginning to now.
2 (43m 32s):
Sounds very scary. It wasn't at all. Oh, I memorized it like a monologue and I freaking learned the history of world civilization that way. And it was news to me that I could have read that textbook a million times. I could have studied flashcards. So the cows came home. I would net I got a perfect score on this exam. And it's because I learn kinesthetically. Yeah. I need to have a story and I need to be involved with yes. I mean to the one number one way I learn is teaching others. And, and the funny, because I, I hate teaching. I hate teaching my husband.
2 (44m 13s):
That's a very, I should say I hate teaching my husband, but like teaching people that, that don't make me insane. I, I learn it. Like I remember I was like the best trainer at my hostess job because I loved it. I was like, oh, Hey one, you get to train people how to do it the way you like it to be done. And also you get to relearn it. And also to refresher, I loved being the trainer. I was like, I will do the training. I will do the training. Interesting. Very interesting. Okay. So what is your story about what'd you say you had a story about, oh, oh, oh, oh shit.
2 (44m 53s):
We are old. What the fuck it was about? I, all I keep thinking of is Charleston fucking shoe, but I told that story, wait a minute, wait a minute, wait a minute on it. Oh my God. We'd have to replay the fucking tape. Yo to little oh, oh Hamilton. Before we were talking about what was the first thing we were talking about. And I looked and I said it was when I was doing, see, we were distracted. We were both checking our emails, the email, when you, right. Well, anyway, I have a lot of shame stories, so it could be any kind of same story. So it was, oh, I said Monica times.
2 (45m 34s):
No, it was w it had something to do with like acting or Hamilton or I had a no, or, oh God. Or maybe you thought maybe it was maybe when I started talking about in content, maybe you said you had a story about Hamilton. No. And console, what side story? The acting all it. Well, I will tell you that, like, there is something about obviously the pandemic that has reignited my absolute awe for performers, that nail shit. Like I absolute all I I'm like, especially people that can sing and dance and act at the same time.
2 (46m 15s):
I'm like, are you fucking kidding me? I don't give a shit. So, oh. And the other thing that I was going to say about Hamilton was in the audience. People are like, like poo-pooing the LA production. They're like critiquing it at, at, at the, I was gonna say halftime at intermission. They're like talking shit about it. And I just said, the ladies next to me, because look, they've become so nitpicky because they've seen it for a thousand times in every different place and all that. And I'm like, I just turned to them. I was sitting by myself, she got me a solo ticket because they couldn't get tickets together with her sister and whatever. And the two ladies had clearly seen it. And the guy over here had been like, seen it like a million times.
2 (46m 57s):
And they were like talking to each other about like, oh, it's not that, you know, th this, the Hamilton's not that strong. And this is, and I said to me, I said to myself, and then I said to them, I said, wait a minute, wait a minute, wait a minute, wait a minute. Can you do that? Let me just tell you something. Our fat ass is sitting over here. These people are throwing chairs around on stage also while singing and while remembering Lear rap lyrics, like shut up. Yeah. Shut up. Oh, by the way. So what's, how are you your rewatch of drag race? Okay. Much better. So, so I think at the time I, I obviously was youngers.
2 (47m 38s):
What were unseasoned? What 13, 18. I don't know. I think it's 13, which I'm crazy. So at the time, when I first watched the first season, whatever year that was in, I did not have any appreciation for healing of any kind. And I also didn't. I was so entrenched in my little world in Los Angeles that like I thought I saw drag race as a gag. Right. It was all a gag. A RuPaul was a gag. I didn't take it seriously. I was like super at 20 in my late twenties, early thirties. And it's really good. And it's also really, I'm not, so, yeah.
2 (48m 18s):
Right. I'm not so interested in the drama. Right. I'm interested in the artistry of the whole thing and how they create the costumes and the characters. And this time watching it, I'm like, oh, these people are brilliant. They're, they're brave and brilliant humans that are doing a really brave thing come that has come out of the need to sort of the, the revolutionary act of not wanting to shrink. Right. Of like gonna kill themselves if they don't do this. And I have to say, like, I only rewatched the first half of the first season, because then I got hooked into this Brazilian crime drama, which is a documentary about fucking crazy shit in Brazil.
2 (49m 3s):
Brazil is a terrible, I could never live in Brazil, but anyway, so, so drag race. Now I have such a new found respect for the performers. And also as, as a revolutionary drag, as a revolutionary act of self-preservation yes, yes. Agreed. And if you want to skip to the good stuff you could skip to season five, season five has, I'm sending myself a cast, quite a cast. And, and as time goes on, not only does the show get better because it has a bigger budget, but also Ru Paul is honing in on what he's, it's actually very, it reminded me a lot of your understanding of the meaning of our podcast as time has gone by.
2 (49m 51s):
And you've been saying for a long time, it's a service we're doing and it's offering healing to people. I think we're Paul figure that out, you know, throughout the course of, and he's, he leans much more heavily into people because almost everybody who is on there has been traumatized, abused, kicked out of their house. All the shit. Parents don't know that they're on drag race. Parents don't know that they do drag P they think it's. Yeah. So I think you'll really like that aspect of it. If you, you know, if you, if you like it enough to stick with it. And I also just think that I, there it is impossible. This is the conundrum of life.
2 (50m 32s):
It's impossible to not be a self-centered asshole when you're in your twenties and thirties or late thirties. Right. Right. Right. And so I look back at some of the shit I did and said, and thought about other people and their cultures and their, and I thought, oh my God, how dare I? I was, I, I was not, look, I'm not saying an awful person, but really the audacity of youth to be like, yeah, you're not cool. Or you, you, this doesn't benefit me in any way. So I'm not going to pay it any mind. In fact, I'm going to shit talk. It just, I mean, it's summed up with my John C. Riley story of never having seen Punchdrunk glove and talking shit about it to the star or no, not punch drunk, love to the star of boogie nights, the audacity of, of, of, of my youth and trauma and whatever to lie.
2 (51m 29s):
So blatantly and do it and lie about a mean thing. What are you, my take on that story has always been, you felt so less than yeah. With him. Yeah. That you, that you, which is not typical for you, that you, that you found a way to make him feel less than you. Oh yeah. It's not typical, but I do it. I do it with my husband all the time, which is like, if I'm, I'm now going through, I'm doing all this deep, deep trauma work in therapy and it's, and I'm also gonna start, I'm going to do an MDM age journey on it. So, so, but I'm doing all this stuff is coming up.
2 (52m 10s):
And I w when I am it's, so you've said it I've said it hurt people, hurt people, but it's very more specific than that. What happens to me is I sense it. I say the same thing when my husband hurts my feelings and it's really not my husband, it's, my feelings are hurt because I'm going through trauma, we're in a pandemic. And we live in a S in an end-stage capitalism. Like that's what's going on, but my husband is the trigger. And I will literally say things like I'm going to leave and not come back. And it is because I want to leave my trauma. I want to leave this shit show and go somewhere where I don't have to look at my trauma.
2 (52m 52s):
And I mean, that's exactly what I want to do. And so we have to, but that's what I do with John C. Riley. It's like, I, I'm not enough. I hate myself. And so I'm wanting to destroy you the way I feel destroyed. Literally. Yeah. It, it comes up so fucked up. I saw on the media about watching Tinder swindler.
2 (53m 34s):
Did you watch it? Yes. Okay. What it comes down to ladies and gentlemen is a study in why people hate women. It's really sad. It's like, really? But, you know, he targets women who are wanting love. Is this a documentary or a fictional documentary? Okay. And there might be a reenactments, but it's a documentary about eight, eight guy who Swindells women. But what you, what I was left with was okay. He picks on women who want love, who also want a man who is not broke and not, they don't have to pay his phone bill.
2 (54m 16s):
Right. Cause that's the experience of a lot of us. So when he, of course, when he, this swindler presents himself as, as rich as hell, that doesn't hurt. But then what you get is the backlash of people saying, well, that bitch was a gold Digger. She deserved to be swindled. So they got a huge backlash for being victims of this guy. It's horrific because if you weren't a gold Digger, then you wouldn't. So it comes down to, if you want to look at it as I couldn't have pure fun with it, because it was at the expense of women looking for love, and then being blamed as the victim, as a gold Dick. It's like, it's like sexism on task plus sexism on top of sexism.
2 (54m 57s):
And I though it didn't raise me. Maybe I'm not going to watch it. Not fun is what I'm saying. Maybe if it was a woman swindling, the men, I think that would have been a better, more, anti-Trump kind of a situation. But like what you're getting is a guy who's literally gaslighting women. And, and for, for, for, you know, I don't know, it's a five-hour situation. I want to watch a documentary called grinder finder, or they just follow guys having their random hookups. What I'm interested to know about that is people, I guess it's not just men, but people who pursue only the hookup on these apps is this satisfying.
2 (55m 44s):
I mean, is it like, yeah, I met this person. We had sex. I never saw them again. It was great. Or, or is there any bit of it? That's you know what I mean? Oh, I know what you mean. It doesn't work. Doesn't work. Does it feel good? I mean, what I'm led to believe about men, sexuality is this is ideal for them, you know, just a nameless, anonymous sex with no, I think it comes down to like what the intention is behind it. But like, I just, you know, whenever people talk about polyamory or, and this, this is different than just a hookup, I'm not comparing polyamory to just hook up culture.
2 (56m 26s):
But what I am saying is it a lifestyle that is different from mine that I don't understand whenever I think about engaging in behavior like that, whether it's having multiple partners or just had gone for the sex, what I end up with is depression, anxiety, and suicidal ideation for myself. That's what I'm saying. Like, if you can do it without those things, I'm like, you go motherfuckers. But for me, I'm like, I don't see how this leads anywhere, but where I was at the age of 29, which was, yeah. And you know, then there's an argument to be made for, like, if you are in your twenties, you were going to do this one way or the other, you know, you're going to have these unsatisfying heartbreaking relationships one way or the other, maybe the advantage of doing it through these apps is that you have a little bit more data.
2 (57m 16s):
I mean, in the olden days, if you would just meet somebody and it was a one night stand and all you had was their Pedro, a number like that. That's all you had. That's all the information you had to go on this way. You can, which I've heard. It turns into a, a bad thing too. Like when people start stocking and they can't stop themselves from cyber-stalking like their one night stand their hookup. It's a double-edged sword. That would be me. I would be in jail if it were, if it were now I would be in jail for cyber-stalking like the only reason I'm not in jail for cyber-stalking is because we didn't have that because you were born in 1975.
2 (57m 57s):
Yeah. But I told you about the phone calls I made, right? No. Oh yes. When you called January. I think when the 85 times my boss was like, what? So that's probably a crime that's talking. So I am grateful that my, my anti-depressant has killed my sex drive in some ways. I'm also grateful to be married in some ways, like, look, do I miss the excitement of the chase of the, the, the, that, that butterflies in the stomach. I miss that, but I have to be honest, like the data for me, the evidence shows it never went in the right direction.
2 (58m 37s):
Like, no. And when you, and when your mind is all so consumed, and it is a nice feeling in a way, but when your mind is all so consumed by falling in love, everything else falls apart, you know what I mean? Like you stop pursuing your career, you stop pursuing like your other life goals. They had any kind of self care goes right out the window for me. And, you know, I'm and I did I ever tell you the story about the famous person who shall remain nameless? That I was in a, met in a, in a group setting that the trellis climbing incident. Okay. Okay. This is, this is fantastic. They needed to make a true crime about this. There's a woman who is who I'm not friends with in any way, but met, randomly and said we were, I was her, this is in I in 2000.
2 (59m 23s):
And like, I dunno, I dunno. I met her in Chicago and this was like, once I started to get better in my brain about that mental health stuff. We were, I was talking about how I was so dysfunctional in my relationships with men and she's like, oh, you think you're just functional? And this is a gorgeous, stunning lady that you're like, no problem. She's got no problem. She's like, you think that's just functional? I was like, oh God. Oh God. And she said, I was married before. And two, this guy who was a player and I was like, okay. And she's like, and I, I just was obsessed with him. And I knew, I knew that he was cheating and he admitted it.
2 (1h 0m 4s):
And so then he said he was gonna stop. And then I got pregnant. She says, and I got pregnant. And I had this feeling. He was still cheating, but he kept saying he wasn't right. So she's pregnant. And she, I don't know how many months pregnant. And she's like, he just kept, I just had that, this crazy feeling. And of course it was like, you know, he would tell me I was crazy. It was a whole gaslighting situation. But anyway, so she, in the middle of the night, he was on a business trip and in the middle of the night, she's like, I fucking have to know. I ha she's pregnant. I have to know she goes to his office. Cause that's where he kept it somewhere else in, in the city, not in their home. He, she knew that there was going to be information in the office, but she couldn't get it.
2 (1h 0m 48s):
Right. She fucking climbs a trellis, pregnant, a trellis, like a trellis, pregnant endangering her life, her baby's life, a criminal, whatever trespassing, even though some husband climbs breaks into his office with like punches, like puts a, a towel around her hand, breaks it breaks office and go through stuff. He's cheating. She finds all kinds of data on his. And she thought to herself, that's when I, she said, that's when I hit bought my bottle and she's sitting there like kind of bloodied.
2 (1h 1m 28s):
Cause it didn't work all the way to cover her hand bloodied with the evidence she was. Right. Of course. And I think, remind it reminded me of something that an ex of mine had said, when I went, go snooping through his phone, Dave, who then died, who that's, you know, my, my ex and I was snooping through it. It wasn't even really an ex, but he is stupid snooping through his phone. And he goes, look, if you need to Snoop, you're going to find something you don't want to see if you, if that instinct in you, is there. Yeah, it was right. He was absolutely right. I found all kinds of stuff that I didn't want to didn't want to say.
2 (1h 2m 10s):
So these are these stories that I'm like, oh my God, it doesn't matter what you look like. It doesn't matter. And my heart breaks for that Chloe Kardashians and her fucking, except at the same time, I'm like, okay, but you keep picking these guys. You keep picking these people who absolutely will 1000%, never, never, never not cheat on you. What are you going to do differently? And her answer so far is I'm going to get more plastic surgery. I'm going to diet more. I'm going to exercise. I mean, she has a whole show called revenge body. That is disgusting. That your whole reason for making your body into a certain way is to get revenge on somebody.
2 (1h 2m 55s):
Like, what are we doing? It's gone all the way left. You want to know even more fucking left. I met someone who was a fucking contestant on that show or like, cool, really? Oh, I actually, I didn't realize it was a shit contest show. They had like a, and she was so fucking crazy. I I've never met a crazier human being in my life. Like wow, never met a crazier human being in my life. And I have treated all levels of crazy. She was the craziest. But anyway, so yeah, you're right. It is the lengths weak, like using our bodies as a weapon, using our bodies, hurting our bodies. It is. And it's one of those things where even if we sat down, you know, Chloe, you, if you ever listened to the show, you're welcome to come on.
2 (1h 3m 41s):
But even if we sat down and said, all the things you will, people do not change until they are a, in enough pain to change or be angry enough to change. It has to come from within. So like, I'm not sure any amount of intervention with these people. And that's what this woman said. And I know it to be true for me until my dad died. And I was stripped of all resources. Was I able to see that my previous behavior in relationships, especially with men was toxic and killing me and not nice to them either. But it took, it took that it took everything being stripped from me too, to even make any kind of small change.
2 (1h 4m 26s):
So like, I'm not sure it's so it's such a hard job to try to help someone change because, because they have to do it on the, and so encoded. And because for me, I had, I had to walk such a distance to figure out that the problem was me. I had to try, I had to exhaust every other possibility of who else I could blame. I had to chalk my behavior up to absolutely anything, but what it was, which is I'm recapitulating the same situation that I was literally in coded to, to, to look for B because I, you know, had a father who rejected me, like, yeah.
2 (1h 5m 13s):
And, and, and, and, and it surprised, I think her father rejected, there's all this stuff about who is her father. And if it's, yeah. I mean, magic people thinking in a funny way that a, an accused double murderer, who is people, you know, who has a plethora of problems and his own trauma is your fucking unknown father. Fuck, that's his claim to fame. It's not right. So here's what I wish. I wish that we all find that in ourselves, that that point without so much pain, but it usually comes with pain to say, oh shit, I don't want to climb any more trellises.
2 (1h 5m 55s):
I just don't want to risk my life. And my unborn child's life or whatever was risk, whatever the risk is to, to try to, to get this love or this, what I think is going to be the fix for my internal whole, you know, like, I, I wish for us that we would do it in a way we could find that sort of, we could make the realization without having to go through so much heartache, but maybe it takes what it fucking takes. And it takes what it takes. I wish it was different, but a, because somebody could tell you all of these things, a future you could come to, to yourself at 20 and tell you these things.
2 (1h 6m 38s):
And you might still not believe them because you have to, you know, a lot of experiences you just have to have and told me, stop doing this to yourself. Older women that I was friends with were like, this guy doesn't love you. Like you, like, this is not what you think it is. I didn't get, I didn't pay him any mind. Yeah. Because it's the same thing. Like with theater school, like, yeah. But I'm the exception for me. It's different. You, that's fine for you to say for other people, but for me, it's different. Yeah. If you liked what you heard today, please give us a positive five star review and subscribe and tell your friends.
2 (1h 7m 23s):
I survived. Theater school is an undeniable ink production. Jen Bosworth, Ramirez, and Gina plegia are the co-hosts. This episode was produced, edited and sound next by Gina <inaudible> for more information about this podcast or other goings on of undeniable, Inc. Please visit our website@undeniablewriters.com. You can also follow us on Facebook, Instagram, and Twitter. Thank you.