WEBVTT NOTE This file was generated by Descript 00:00:38.448 --> 00:00:41.358 TestDuke: Man, I don't know about you, man, but I wanna talk about some stuff 00:00:41.958 --> 00:00:45.108 CJ: man, duke, you know, I've been in to talk about some stuff. 00:00:47.268 --> 00:00:48.078 TestDuke: actually, for real. 00:00:48.078 --> 00:00:51.588 We just did some chat GPT stuff like, Hey, what kind of episodes should we do? 00:00:51.588 --> 00:00:53.268 And we're so motivated right now. 00:00:54.078 --> 00:00:54.948 CJ: Seriously, man. 00:00:54.953 --> 00:00:58.284 Like chad GTP five, came through like a rockstar. 00:00:58.284 --> 00:00:59.874 this thing is nuts. 00:01:00.079 --> 00:01:01.909 TestDuke: it's like it ran our stuff. 00:01:02.689 --> 00:01:03.709 CJ: Well, maybe it did, 00:01:06.229 --> 00:01:06.619 TestDuke: All right. 00:01:06.619 --> 00:01:10.819 So, gosh, we had so many things, so many things to choose from. 00:01:10.819 --> 00:01:11.689 So what did we pick? 00:01:12.499 --> 00:01:14.234 CJ: we went with, uh, beyond Go live. 00:01:14.254 --> 00:01:15.634 The secret to Keeping Momentum. 00:01:16.608 --> 00:01:20.058 TestDuke: sometimes you get to the end of a deployment and it's like, 00:01:20.058 --> 00:01:21.678 whew, finally we got that done. 00:01:21.897 --> 00:01:25.077 And it's way easier than, legacy tools. 00:01:25.227 --> 00:01:25.767 , But. 00:01:25.999 --> 00:01:28.309 How do you keep that energy going? 00:01:28.679 --> 00:01:30.659 Sometimes it's natural. 00:01:30.659 --> 00:01:32.939 Sometimes it's just like, wow, that went awesome. 00:01:33.329 --> 00:01:35.099 Let's just do a whole bunch more. 00:01:35.339 --> 00:01:37.889 And sometimes, maybe it doesn't, not so much that way. 00:01:37.889 --> 00:01:38.249 Right. 00:01:39.139 --> 00:01:42.782 CJ: Sometimes you just struggle to get to the end, and you got there and everyone's 00:01:42.782 --> 00:01:45.392 like, okay, at least that's finally done. 00:01:45.942 --> 00:01:49.872 . TestDuke: And for our audience it matters because you don't wanna just 00:01:49.872 --> 00:01:54.402 be the person who helped us get across the finish line and congratulations. 00:01:54.402 --> 00:01:59.929 Now you're in stasis mode for the next, however long we are all about 00:01:59.929 --> 00:02:03.709 career progression and getting new skills and moving on up. 00:02:04.279 --> 00:02:07.939 And so you don't want it to stagnate post, go live. 00:02:08.749 --> 00:02:08.929 CJ: Yeah. 00:02:08.929 --> 00:02:10.999 And you wanna maximize the value of the platform for 00:02:10.999 --> 00:02:12.489 your, , organization too, right? 00:02:12.699 --> 00:02:17.349 Like ultimately, I where I see a lot of ServiceNow implementations failing is 00:02:17.399 --> 00:02:20.479 once you accomplish it, you don't take it to that next level, and then the, 00:02:20.502 --> 00:02:21.702 the organization you're with, right? 00:02:21.702 --> 00:02:24.312 Like they see that value from that initial implementation. 00:02:24.392 --> 00:02:27.362 but they're looking for like, what's the stage two value? 00:02:27.362 --> 00:02:28.442 What's the stage three value? 00:02:28.526 --> 00:02:30.236 ? Because that's part of the selling process, right? 00:02:30.236 --> 00:02:33.986 Everyone is looking to the future to see, okay, I know I can get this 00:02:33.986 --> 00:02:38.036 right here, but it's the stage two thing that's, really going to help us. 00:02:38.621 --> 00:02:39.851 TestDuke: And hard truths here. 00:02:40.004 --> 00:02:44.511 , The hardest lesson I learned in my sales enablement years was this concept of, 00:02:44.511 --> 00:02:46.401 yeah, but what did you do for me lately? 00:02:47.046 --> 00:02:47.226 CJ: Yeah. 00:02:47.226 --> 00:02:47.616 Yeah. 00:02:48.021 --> 00:02:51.566 TestDuke: Like, you can, you can knock somebody's socks off in year one. 00:02:51.566 --> 00:02:56.411 Like, this is amazing, but the very next year they're like, yeah, but come on. 00:02:56.411 --> 00:02:57.911 What did you do for me lately? 00:02:58.331 --> 00:03:01.871 CJ: Man, sales, consulting and politics are pick one, right? 00:03:01.871 --> 00:03:03.791 Like they're all this, they're all that. 00:03:05.782 --> 00:03:07.879 TestDuke: So, Corey and I did some thinking. 00:03:07.879 --> 00:03:11.449 We put some points together and here we go. 00:03:12.069 --> 00:03:12.609 CJ: All right, dude.. 00:03:12.769 --> 00:03:14.209 Let's start with one of your favorites. 00:03:14.389 --> 00:03:15.049 Reporting. 00:03:15.349 --> 00:03:16.429 TestDuke: Oh, yes. 00:03:16.694 --> 00:03:21.027 So whenever I see a post go live, that stalled. 00:03:21.187 --> 00:03:22.747 It went live. 00:03:22.957 --> 00:03:24.097 Yeah, whatever. 00:03:24.307 --> 00:03:28.237 And there's no more strategic outlook for what we can do next. 00:03:28.477 --> 00:03:32.317 It's because there wasn't a focus on reporting. 00:03:32.921 --> 00:03:34.631 beginning, middle, or end. 00:03:34.681 --> 00:03:36.871 We just didn't hit the mark on reporting. 00:03:37.261 --> 00:03:41.907 So this is something, you should always have a mind on. 00:03:41.907 --> 00:03:45.251 'cause good news spreads. 00:03:45.461 --> 00:03:49.631 Like if you can prove that something worked that was worth the money, 00:03:49.631 --> 00:03:53.081 like I don't think people realize just how rare that is in an 00:03:53.081 --> 00:03:54.947 industry where like the meme, right? 00:03:54.947 --> 00:03:58.577 75% of it projects fail or, or, or whatever, right? 00:03:58.637 --> 00:04:02.297 If you can show that, hey, we spent this time and energy and 00:04:02.297 --> 00:04:04.247 money and it was totally worth it, 00:04:05.192 --> 00:04:06.092 CJ: Absolutely. 00:04:06.407 --> 00:04:10.127 TestDuke: That news gets around fast and people all around are 00:04:10.127 --> 00:04:11.717 like, wow, I want some of that. 00:04:11.717 --> 00:04:16.117 I mean, Corey, you and I were lucky enough to be there at the beginning, ? Where, 00:04:16.460 --> 00:04:18.890 it had had these ticketing tools forever. 00:04:19.410 --> 00:04:19.700 CJ: Yeah. 00:04:20.015 --> 00:04:23.658 TestDuke: and the rest of the business didn't, , HR was working off of email. 00:04:23.658 --> 00:04:26.838 PMO was working off of email everybody, email, email, email. 00:04:27.048 --> 00:04:28.128 CJ: Excel spreadsheets, man. 00:04:28.218 --> 00:04:29.088 TestDuke: Yeah, exactly. 00:04:29.088 --> 00:04:34.848 And as, yeah, and as soon as ServiceNow got better at deploying the ITSM suite 00:04:35.148 --> 00:04:37.578 and doing good reporting behind it. 00:04:37.862 --> 00:04:42.662 The rest of the org was like, holy cow, what's this like, that's awesome. 00:04:42.692 --> 00:04:43.772 I want some of that. 00:04:44.447 --> 00:04:48.400 CJ: Yeah all it takes is like a creative, ServiceNow architect, 00:04:48.437 --> 00:04:50.777 to go to the business and be like, Hey, have you seen this? 00:04:52.457 --> 00:04:53.927 And then boom, uncork it. 00:04:55.007 --> 00:04:55.877 TestDuke: Yeah, exactly. 00:04:55.877 --> 00:05:00.975 And I feel like a lot of times reporting is an afterthought. 00:05:01.298 --> 00:05:07.208 and it's defacto ad hoc, like reporting is when somebody emails me and tells me, 00:05:07.418 --> 00:05:11.351 Hey, I just need this report, and it's, show me incidents by priority or show me 00:05:11.351 --> 00:05:13.408 incidents by category, blah, blah, blah. 00:05:13.558 --> 00:05:17.368 But nobody's really thinking about what are the things that 00:05:17.368 --> 00:05:25.348 indicate that the process is doing its job successfully or poorly. 00:05:26.038 --> 00:05:27.808 Like, I, I really don't care. 00:05:27.808 --> 00:05:28.078 Right? 00:05:28.078 --> 00:05:33.151 If you showed me that, we deployed and you built the reporting correctly, 00:05:33.331 --> 00:05:36.321 and all the metrics are coming back, like, Hey, this is a pretty shit 00:05:36.321 --> 00:05:38.091 situation here, to be honest with you, 00:05:40.731 --> 00:05:41.181 right? 00:05:41.541 --> 00:05:45.791 But the good news is we know how to improve, we know that we're doing badly 00:05:45.985 --> 00:05:48.415 Now what do we do to get it better? 00:05:49.360 --> 00:05:52.540 CJ: And look, the information , that we're doing poorly is 00:05:52.540 --> 00:05:54.460 valuable information, right? 00:05:54.460 --> 00:05:55.630 Like, just be right. 00:05:55.630 --> 00:05:59.090 Like, just because it's negative doesn't mean that it's negative, it 00:05:59.090 --> 00:06:00.710 gives you a sense of where you are. 00:06:00.710 --> 00:06:02.330 So you know, the changes need to be made. 00:06:02.390 --> 00:06:03.980 That's valuable to the organization. 00:06:04.215 --> 00:06:04.335 I. 00:06:04.745 --> 00:06:08.405 TestDuke: Yeah, my son's in jujitsu, And , they were showing him that, , you're 00:06:08.405 --> 00:06:10.025 doing this technique totally wrong. 00:06:10.216 --> 00:06:13.271 And he was sad about it, and I'm like, why are you sad about it? 00:06:13.941 --> 00:06:18.226 Because you wanna know now when you're in practice that you're 00:06:18.226 --> 00:06:19.516 doing this technique wrong. 00:06:19.796 --> 00:06:23.906 Where you don't wanna find out about it is when somebody is on top of you 00:06:23.906 --> 00:06:25.377 and pounding the crap out of you, 00:06:28.316 --> 00:06:31.166 you know, now is great. 00:06:31.256 --> 00:06:34.316 It's the best time to find out that you're doing it completely wrong. 00:06:34.406 --> 00:06:35.966 Now is the best time for that. 00:06:36.146 --> 00:06:36.596 CJ: Yes. 00:06:36.776 --> 00:06:39.056 So you don't want to know when you try that throw and 00:06:39.056 --> 00:06:40.526 you fall instead of They do. 00:06:40.811 --> 00:06:41.411 TestDuke: exactly. 00:06:41.621 --> 00:06:42.761 Exactly, exactly. 00:06:42.811 --> 00:06:46.891 Some movie is gonna make you super exposed or whatever, oh gosh. 00:06:46.891 --> 00:06:50.041 I think we could do an entire episode on the reporting alone. 00:06:50.448 --> 00:06:50.738 CJ: Dude. 00:06:51.081 --> 00:06:53.631 TestDuke: Have we, there's a hundred and some episodes, I'm sure. 00:06:53.631 --> 00:06:55.341 We've talked about reporting once or twice. 00:06:55.491 --> 00:06:56.661 CJ: Once or twice maybe. 00:06:56.686 --> 00:06:58.521 I, I don't know, duke, I'm losing track. 00:07:00.081 --> 00:07:01.911 TestDuke: We'll put some links in the description below. 00:07:01.911 --> 00:07:02.901 Everybody take a shot. 00:07:04.891 --> 00:07:06.631 CJ: because reporting is communication, right? 00:07:06.631 --> 00:07:13.201 And communication is the underlying basis of a successful platform, process, 00:07:13.335 --> 00:07:16.998 program, Organization, you name it,, if you don't have that communication set, 00:07:17.168 --> 00:07:18.458 You're never gonna be able to communicate. 00:07:18.668 --> 00:07:21.368 You can't say communication defines communication. 00:07:21.518 --> 00:07:21.758 Right. 00:07:21.758 --> 00:07:24.635 But you're never going to be able to, portray that value or the 00:07:24.635 --> 00:07:26.765 absence of it to the organization. 00:07:26.801 --> 00:07:28.181 And that's what reporting does, 00:07:28.916 --> 00:07:29.246 TestDuke: Yeah. 00:07:29.246 --> 00:07:33.730 Sometimes a platform owner, you gotta be an internal sales rep almost. 00:07:33.805 --> 00:07:33.925 CJ: Yeah. 00:07:34.135 --> 00:07:34.825 You always are. 00:07:34.825 --> 00:07:36.325 It's not even sometimes Duke. 00:07:37.885 --> 00:07:39.130 TestDuke: I stand corrected, bro. 00:07:41.290 --> 00:07:45.070 CJ: You are the de facto platform evangelist, 00:07:45.226 --> 00:07:45.676 TestDuke: Yeah. 00:07:45.936 --> 00:07:48.486 CJ: and if you're not doing it, nobody else is going to do it. 00:07:48.536 --> 00:07:49.556 And ultimately. 00:07:50.006 --> 00:07:54.386 Your job depends on the business buying into the platform, 00:07:54.596 --> 00:07:55.826 Because that's what you do. 00:07:56.156 --> 00:08:00.006 You are a Service now person now, Inside of this organization. 00:08:00.216 --> 00:08:03.816 And so your job is the care and feeding and attending of the platform. 00:08:04.056 --> 00:08:06.906 And in order to ensure that the business keeps the platform around, 00:08:06.966 --> 00:08:10.618 you gotta sell it, and so you need to go out , and you need to be knocking 00:08:10.618 --> 00:08:12.508 on doors inside the organization. 00:08:13.228 --> 00:08:15.658 Tell 'em, Hey, have you heard of our Lord and Savior service? 00:08:15.658 --> 00:08:17.278 Now, let me show you. 00:08:18.733 --> 00:08:21.228 TestDuke: Well actually remember that episode we did on the user councils. 00:08:21.953 --> 00:08:22.173 CJ: Yes. 00:08:22.718 --> 00:08:25.808 TestDuke: Maybe post-deployment, you go back to your user councils and be 00:08:25.808 --> 00:08:31.351 like, okay, listen, just to review, here's the capabilities that the current 00:08:31.441 --> 00:08:35.961 people on ServiceNow can, leverage, we've automated these kind of workflows, 00:08:35.961 --> 00:08:37.641 so there's less work to be done. 00:08:38.091 --> 00:08:40.821 We've got visibility to this kind of work. 00:08:41.391 --> 00:08:43.221 We've got governance on this kind of work. 00:08:43.535 --> 00:08:43.895 CJ: Yep. 00:08:44.060 --> 00:08:47.843 TestDuke: And we can definitively show the C-suite that, KPIs are 00:08:47.843 --> 00:08:49.103 improving here, here, and here, 00:08:49.388 --> 00:08:49.748 CJ: Right, 00:08:50.123 --> 00:08:53.483 TestDuke: but they're not gonna like, like people got stuff to do. 00:08:53.483 --> 00:08:56.926 That's their own jobs, They're not gonna be like, oh, hey, I 00:08:56.926 --> 00:08:58.276 should brag about ServiceNow. 00:08:58.276 --> 00:09:01.780 They're too busy figuring out how to increase their, 00:09:01.883 --> 00:09:03.473 performance in their own domain. 00:09:03.805 --> 00:09:04.125 CJ: Right. 00:09:04.695 --> 00:09:09.345 TestDuke: So you've gotta be the one that kind of showcases the capabilities 00:09:09.345 --> 00:09:13.616 that you've just, deployed into, those people who went live with you. 00:09:14.031 --> 00:09:17.521 CJ: and not only that, duke, ? This is just a good career move, ? No matter what 00:09:17.521 --> 00:09:19.351 you're doing, no matter what your role is. 00:09:19.441 --> 00:09:23.191 Even if you're listening to this podcast and you are not in the ServiceNow 00:09:23.371 --> 00:09:25.921 world, being able to communicate value. 00:09:25.986 --> 00:09:29.466 is just a great career move and that's what reporting allows you to do. 00:09:30.066 --> 00:09:35.046 So evangelists, no matter what you're doing, ServiceNow or not, 00:09:35.226 --> 00:09:36.306 but definitely if you're ServiceNow. 00:09:36.663 --> 00:09:37.828 All right, dude, what we got next? 00:09:38.618 --> 00:09:42.365 TestDuke: Curiosity, because people aren't always gonna come to you. 00:09:43.630 --> 00:09:48.080 I hearken back to my early, early experiences with ServiceNow, and we 00:09:48.080 --> 00:09:51.783 were working with legacy tools, so the main selling point of ServiceNow 00:09:51.783 --> 00:09:54.483 was just how much faster it could go. 00:09:55.248 --> 00:09:55.538 CJ: Yeah. 00:09:55.563 --> 00:09:56.223 TestDuke: You know what I mean? 00:09:56.733 --> 00:10:00.913 And we replaced HP Serv OpenView Service Desk. 00:10:01.288 --> 00:10:04.168 Probably the worst thing human beings have ever designed. 00:10:05.698 --> 00:10:10.858 But, but we had replaced OpenView service desk and we did it in like a quarter 00:10:10.858 --> 00:10:12.448 of the time that we thought we would. 00:10:13.468 --> 00:10:17.045 And so we were kind of low key scared like, 00:10:17.885 --> 00:10:19.100 CJ: We missed something. 00:10:19.535 --> 00:10:21.440 TestDuke: yeah, we have to look busy, right? 00:10:23.240 --> 00:10:28.283 And so, we started asking around, like we started talking to our peers throughout 00:10:28.283 --> 00:10:29.933 it, and , what are you struggling with? 00:10:30.533 --> 00:10:34.843 And I hit the mother load, man, I was talking to this guy Ron. 00:10:34.943 --> 00:10:39.117 and Ron was the type of guy, they would just say, Hey Ron, solve this problem. 00:10:39.267 --> 00:10:41.427 And he'd disappear for like two or three months. 00:10:41.625 --> 00:10:45.638 He'd come back with, piles of Excel sheets and he'd be like, 00:10:45.638 --> 00:10:46.868 all right, here's what's wrong 00:10:50.108 --> 00:10:51.428 and here's what we need to do. 00:10:51.998 --> 00:10:53.732 And he worked next to me. 00:10:53.960 --> 00:10:55.970 I'm like, Hey Ron, what's, what's going on in your world? 00:10:55.970 --> 00:10:58.370 And he is like, well, shoot, let me show you all these Excel sheets and 00:10:58.640 --> 00:11:01.880 how bad global onboarding sucks and blah, blah, blah, blah was just like, 00:11:02.150 --> 00:11:05.540 and he talked to me for like two hours straight and then it was like, Hey, how 00:11:05.540 --> 00:11:07.040 about we just put that in service now? 00:11:07.310 --> 00:11:09.080 But nobody asked for it. 00:11:09.715 --> 00:11:09.995 CJ: Right, 00:11:10.025 --> 00:11:12.875 TestDuke: Ron didn't know that he can come to us and say, Hey, wouldn't it 00:11:12.875 --> 00:11:14.435 be nice if we put this in ServiceNow? 00:11:14.705 --> 00:11:19.205 The C-Suite certainly didn't know all of the VP levels were 00:11:19.205 --> 00:11:20.735 preoccupied with other stuff. 00:11:20.735 --> 00:11:24.583 Everybody forgotten about Ron and this whole like global onboarding thing, but 00:11:24.583 --> 00:11:31.059 I swear that process saved, millions and millions and millions of dollars. 00:11:32.019 --> 00:11:34.689 Like I wish they'd had given me like a 0.1% 00:11:34.959 --> 00:11:35.349 just. 00:11:37.584 --> 00:11:42.434 Piece of that pie like you, because he had worked it all out and it 00:11:42.434 --> 00:11:44.684 never would've come to our desk. 00:11:44.874 --> 00:11:48.444 If I hadn't have gone to Ron and said, Hey Ron, I hear you're 00:11:48.444 --> 00:11:50.994 doing some onboarding analysis. 00:11:51.128 --> 00:11:54.768 tell me how badly that sucks and then just listen to 'em, rant. 00:11:55.413 --> 00:11:55.953 CJ: Yeah, 00:11:56.418 --> 00:11:59.778 TestDuke: So you really need to be curious about what's going on. 00:11:59.928 --> 00:12:03.798 Another time, like when I worked at Hyatt Hotels or finance, talking about people 00:12:03.798 --> 00:12:09.714 who are doing, dispute on their bill or they've got a chargeback or a global 00:12:09.714 --> 00:12:14.184 contact center for stuff that's like, it's not even it, it's just hotel experience, 00:12:14.259 --> 00:12:14.739 CJ: Right. 00:12:15.044 --> 00:12:17.054 TestDuke: And just sitting and talking with them and the 00:12:17.054 --> 00:12:19.724 struggle that they have with. 00:12:19.818 --> 00:12:24.018 The dozens of email accounts that people email or you know, the 00:12:24.018 --> 00:12:27.948 rigid processes that can't be rigid 'cause it's just sitting in email. 00:12:28.698 --> 00:12:30.846 So curiosity, That's the thing. 00:12:31.146 --> 00:12:36.726 Curiosity, they aren't going to come to you sometimes. 00:12:36.726 --> 00:12:39.756 You've gotta be the one that just says, Hey listen, tell me how 00:12:39.756 --> 00:12:41.211 badly your world sucks right now. 00:12:42.306 --> 00:12:42.786 CJ: Yeah. 00:12:43.026 --> 00:12:46.249 You know what, duke as a, corollary to that, There's problem leakage. 00:12:46.864 --> 00:12:51.044 I know that sounds like a commercial for a new a condition that a new drug, treats. 00:12:51.044 --> 00:12:54.138 But the way I think about problem leakage is that you're in the company, right? 00:12:54.138 --> 00:13:00.148 And there's always somebody who has a need for thing, ? They're having a problem, but 00:13:00.178 --> 00:13:04.468 they might not necessarily be talking to you about it, but it's in the air in the 00:13:04.468 --> 00:13:10.138 organization, It's like, man, if we can only get this thing to do the other thing. 00:13:10.473 --> 00:13:14.313 It will save so much time and effort for everybody involved. 00:13:14.583 --> 00:13:18.123 And , it's not necessarily an IT thing, it's a business thing or whatever. 00:13:18.123 --> 00:13:22.653 It might not even be in your department, in your group, whatever, ? But it's 00:13:22.653 --> 00:13:28.556 in the air, And so now you gotta pluck it out the air and think, huh, my best 00:13:28.556 --> 00:13:29.786 service down could help with that. 00:13:30.063 --> 00:13:32.973 And then, so boom, two days later you gotta, a pilot, you gotta go 00:13:32.973 --> 00:13:35.013 find the people who are having this problem and say, look. 00:13:35.518 --> 00:13:38.428 This is what I, I, I genned up based on what I heard you guys are doing 00:13:38.534 --> 00:13:41.974 or what I heard you guys need, or even just before you even do all 00:13:41.974 --> 00:13:42.934 of that, just go knock on the door. 00:13:42.934 --> 00:13:46.948 Hey, I heard you guys are trying to, blah, blah, you know, you got this 00:13:46.948 --> 00:13:50.278 huge Excel spreadsheet trying to send these emails, et cetera, et cetera. 00:13:50.728 --> 00:13:51.658 I can help with that. 00:13:51.794 --> 00:13:54.971 And it's because you're listening, ? It's because you're curious about 00:13:55.026 --> 00:13:58.326 what the organization is doing outside of just what you do. 00:13:58.763 --> 00:13:59.663 That's important. 00:13:59.973 --> 00:14:03.063 And that's how you pick up some of those other struggles that you can 00:14:03.063 --> 00:14:04.473 then integrate into the platform. 00:14:05.128 --> 00:14:07.658 TestDuke: Yeah, man, I like, that's just another key word to this 00:14:07.658 --> 00:14:09.278 whole thing is just initiative. 00:14:09.833 --> 00:14:10.523 CJ: Oh yeah. 00:14:10.523 --> 00:14:11.108 That's what that is. 00:14:11.603 --> 00:14:17.303 TestDuke: Like there's, Islam has this saying that I just absolutely 00:14:17.303 --> 00:14:20.399 love, and they say if the mountain won't come to Mohammad, then 00:14:20.399 --> 00:14:22.199 Mohammad must go to the mountain. 00:14:22.559 --> 00:14:22.739 Right. 00:14:22.739 --> 00:14:24.629 It's just, it's one or the other. 00:14:25.064 --> 00:14:25.284 CJ: Yep. 00:14:26.129 --> 00:14:28.184 TestDuke: That mountain isn't moving anywhere. 00:14:28.834 --> 00:14:29.054 CJ: Yep. 00:14:29.514 --> 00:14:29.734 So. 00:14:31.019 --> 00:14:31.559 TestDuke: That's right. 00:14:31.619 --> 00:14:32.639 What are you gonna do? 00:14:32.999 --> 00:14:34.919 Well, Mohammad must go to the mountain. 00:14:34.919 --> 00:14:42.059 And so in these cases post go live, you're in a kind of stasis, it's up to you. 00:14:42.119 --> 00:14:48.329 Exercise your agency, exercise your initiatives, go out and get it. 00:14:48.689 --> 00:14:52.453 And that either means what we just talked about, , being curious about 00:14:52.663 --> 00:14:55.063 the struggles across the organization. 00:14:55.309 --> 00:15:00.289 Being unafraid to interrupt Conversa being Yeah. 00:15:00.539 --> 00:15:01.889 to interrupt conversations. 00:15:01.889 --> 00:15:03.959 Well, I think we can help you with ServiceNow, 00:15:04.574 --> 00:15:05.174 CJ: Yeah. 00:15:05.909 --> 00:15:06.209 TestDuke: right? 00:15:06.239 --> 00:15:08.159 , Familiarity breeds contempt, right? 00:15:08.379 --> 00:15:10.819 And we're at the stage now where sometimes people are like, 00:15:11.089 --> 00:15:12.739 oh, this ServiceNow, whatever. 00:15:13.309 --> 00:15:13.789 Right? 00:15:13.969 --> 00:15:14.389 CJ: yeah, 00:15:15.289 --> 00:15:17.239 TestDuke: But it's because they haven't been told. 00:15:17.769 --> 00:15:20.859 What do we have right now that can actually help you? 00:15:21.276 --> 00:15:21.756 CJ: yeah. 00:15:21.756 --> 00:15:25.806 And it's because they have , an impression of what the platform is already, and 00:15:25.806 --> 00:15:27.456 nobody's dis abused them of that notion. 00:15:27.876 --> 00:15:31.086 And so when you end up in that situation, you have to change minds. 00:15:31.086 --> 00:15:32.976 You gotta be unafraid to do so. 00:15:33.576 --> 00:15:36.626 And you gotta be unafraid to pull somebody's coattails, And you get in that 00:15:36.626 --> 00:15:40.806 conversation, get in that room and, say what, you can do to help or just, Hey, 00:15:41.346 --> 00:15:45.126 I don't know if I can help, but I'd like to listen to see, if maybe I can right it 00:15:45.126 --> 00:15:48.822 doesn't hurt anything to have you sit in the room and listen to the conversations. 00:15:49.212 --> 00:15:49.302 Right? 00:15:49.799 --> 00:15:51.089 and I think it's really important. 00:15:51.089 --> 00:15:54.049 This is one of the things I think that has helped my career, at various 00:15:54.049 --> 00:15:57.649 strategic points along the way, is just being unafraid to speak 00:15:57.649 --> 00:15:59.959 up or, and ask to be in the room. 00:16:00.019 --> 00:16:03.799 And when I get in the room, to be unafraid, to offer my input. 00:16:03.839 --> 00:16:05.069 When I think I can matter. 00:16:05.499 --> 00:16:07.269 I'll tell you a story real quick, duke, is this is. 00:16:07.869 --> 00:16:09.909 TestDuke: can we just try an organ in here and just. 00:16:13.779 --> 00:16:14.799 CJ: We'll do it in post. 00:16:20.409 --> 00:16:24.062 So at, at my last, job, And probably the last job that I'll ever work. 00:16:24.249 --> 00:16:25.929 it was early, early, my tenure there. 00:16:25.929 --> 00:16:29.769 I don't know, may, maybe I was there a couple months and our website went down. 00:16:30.309 --> 00:16:33.499 And it was a website for a company we had just acquired. 00:16:34.294 --> 00:16:36.364 And we have put a lot of money and effort into this. 00:16:36.414 --> 00:16:38.814 , So this is like 2000 or early 2001. 00:16:39.264 --> 00:16:42.504 And so this is our web strategy and our website is down, 00:16:43.014 --> 00:16:45.204 and the CTO is freaking out. 00:16:45.479 --> 00:16:49.559 And this is such a big deal that he's got the smartest guy in the company, in 00:16:49.559 --> 00:16:55.074 his office with his laptop, literally trying to debug what's going on. 00:16:55.304 --> 00:16:59.603 and you don't know how bad this stuff has to be for you to have 00:16:59.603 --> 00:17:04.853 like your top engineer in the CTO's office literally troubleshooting. 00:17:05.963 --> 00:17:08.783 And, and so while he's doing that, I'm just curious. 00:17:08.783 --> 00:17:09.594 I'm like, oh, this thing's down. 00:17:10.298 --> 00:17:11.498 Let me see what I can figure out. 00:17:11.738 --> 00:17:12.068 Right? 00:17:12.068 --> 00:17:13.482 And so I'm an IT guy, right? 00:17:13.482 --> 00:17:15.312 And I've done network and all that stuff in the past. 00:17:15.312 --> 00:17:18.125 So, I'm digging around like, okay, this site's not resolving what's 00:17:18.125 --> 00:17:20.465 going on, blah blah blue, you know, do some traders routing. 00:17:20.465 --> 00:17:21.635 It's say, oh, it's dropping here. 00:17:21.755 --> 00:17:22.925 Figure out what that site is. 00:17:22.925 --> 00:17:23.225 Boom. 00:17:23.345 --> 00:17:25.055 It's not us, right? 00:17:25.925 --> 00:17:29.178 we're down because, one of our providers went down and are now 00:17:29.178 --> 00:17:30.438 dropping all of our packets. 00:17:30.570 --> 00:17:33.510 I immediately called the CTO's office. 00:17:33.510 --> 00:17:37.050 Now, look, I've been there for months, not years, like a few months. 00:17:37.410 --> 00:17:42.450 I called the CTO's office, I'm like, Hey, it looks like our provider's 00:17:42.450 --> 00:17:45.300 edge router is down and that's why nobody can get to our site. 00:17:45.780 --> 00:17:47.550 And, and he's like, yeah. 00:17:47.587 --> 00:17:49.897 uh, Michael was just telling me the exact same thing. 00:17:50.287 --> 00:17:51.607 I'll tell you what that got me. 00:17:51.967 --> 00:17:57.100 I ended up going to lunch with the CTO the next week, and from then on I was on his. 00:17:57.125 --> 00:18:00.665 radar for the, my entire tenure there, for his entire tenure there. 00:18:00.945 --> 00:18:02.325 , We became close. 00:18:02.325 --> 00:18:10.395 He came to my wedding, like, all from that one conversation to that one piece 00:18:10.395 --> 00:18:14.115 of initiative not being scared, To get in there and get my hands dirty. 00:18:14.325 --> 00:18:18.478 And when I felt like I had a, fix or a solution or at least a diagnosis, right? 00:18:18.478 --> 00:18:20.428 To literally call his office. 00:18:20.668 --> 00:18:22.438 Like, who is this guy calling the CTO? 00:18:23.038 --> 00:18:23.518 Well. 00:18:23.538 --> 00:18:29.173 TestDuke: Man, I'm telling you, initiative is better than being right. 00:18:29.477 --> 00:18:30.197 CJ: Absolutely. 00:18:30.497 --> 00:18:33.737 TestDuke: it is better than being right because you either get the 00:18:34.107 --> 00:18:39.640 dividends Of being in the scrum of like, what the hell's going on here? 00:18:39.760 --> 00:18:41.620 Well, I think it might be this, right? 00:18:41.620 --> 00:18:45.670 You get the dividends of being in the scrum or you get corrected. 00:18:45.790 --> 00:18:46.750 I think it might be this. 00:18:46.750 --> 00:18:50.740 No, dude, it's not that it's this, but at least you are in the scrum. 00:18:51.100 --> 00:18:51.310 CJ: yeah. 00:18:51.310 --> 00:18:51.550 You're on 00:18:51.580 --> 00:18:51.875 TestDuke: know what I mean? 00:18:51.970 --> 00:18:52.360 CJ: now. 00:18:52.420 --> 00:18:53.500 You're on the team now. 00:18:53.650 --> 00:18:54.820 TestDuke: Yeah, exactly. 00:18:55.015 --> 00:18:59.725 They know you now, your name that was in the scrum, there's a hundred 00:18:59.725 --> 00:19:04.545 other names that maybe had an idea that weren't in the scrum. 00:19:04.620 --> 00:19:05.100 CJ: because they never 00:19:05.205 --> 00:19:07.665 TestDuke: I'm not talking the Agile scrum, I'm talking about the like. 00:19:08.325 --> 00:19:10.845 You know, I'm talking about the Aussie rules football 00:19:11.085 --> 00:19:11.375 CJ: Yeah. 00:19:11.805 --> 00:19:12.095 Yeah. 00:19:13.245 --> 00:19:13.665 TestDuke: right? 00:19:13.875 --> 00:19:16.755 And everybody's just trying to push this ball forward, another foot. 00:19:17.250 --> 00:19:17.670 CJ: Yep. 00:19:17.848 --> 00:19:22.088 TestDuke: there's just initiative is better than being right. 00:19:22.345 --> 00:19:23.485 Nobody's right all the time. 00:19:23.485 --> 00:19:24.205 Who cares? 00:19:24.518 --> 00:19:26.742 But the initiative is what counts. 00:19:26.742 --> 00:19:28.872 It's what puts your name in the headlights. 00:19:29.270 --> 00:19:31.730 Corey was there with us while we tried to get it. 00:19:31.735 --> 00:19:34.340 It just so happens you were right too, so that was an extra bonus. 00:19:34.490 --> 00:19:35.060 That's it. 00:19:35.210 --> 00:19:38.180 Like the dividends multiply if you're actually right too. 00:19:38.505 --> 00:19:40.035 CJ: Yeah, absolutely, man. 00:19:40.358 --> 00:19:41.378 Just, just step up. 00:19:43.510 --> 00:19:43.780 TestDuke: Wow. 00:19:43.780 --> 00:19:45.670 This went all kinds of different crazy places. 00:19:45.775 --> 00:19:46.615 CJ: it love it though? 00:19:46.615 --> 00:19:47.185 Love it. 00:19:48.055 --> 00:19:49.705 All of it valuable, right? 00:19:49.960 --> 00:19:52.180 TestDuke: so we did reporting, curiosity, grooming. 00:19:52.930 --> 00:19:54.190 No, no, we didn't do grooming. 00:19:54.265 --> 00:19:56.545 CJ: didn't do, yeah, we didn't do value validation. 00:19:56.545 --> 00:19:57.625 I wanna skip that one, right? 00:19:57.625 --> 00:19:58.785 Because that's , interesting 00:19:58.830 --> 00:19:59.940 TestDuke: Let's hit that one right now. 00:20:00.360 --> 00:20:01.800 What's value validation, Corey? 00:20:02.055 --> 00:20:05.835 CJ: when I think about value validation, I'm thinking about did the thing that we 00:20:05.835 --> 00:20:09.582 built for you actually solve your problem, you just paid us a ton of money If we're 00:20:09.582 --> 00:20:11.202 a consultant or if I'm internal, right? 00:20:11.202 --> 00:20:13.362 Like, you're paying my salary, so you're paying me a ton of money. 00:20:13.542 --> 00:20:16.542 You let me devote X amount of time to this project. 00:20:17.082 --> 00:20:19.632 Ultimately because the business needs this outcome. 00:20:19.812 --> 00:20:23.412 Did it achieve the outcome that we thought it would at the beginning of the project? 00:20:24.072 --> 00:20:24.672 ? TestDuke: Yes. 00:20:24.770 --> 00:20:26.243 Yes, man. 00:20:26.343 --> 00:20:26.763 Okay. 00:20:26.853 --> 00:20:31.967 So I, for a while, I, worked in sales enablement and I had this 00:20:31.967 --> 00:20:33.827 great sales coach, Craig Pratt. 00:20:33.857 --> 00:20:34.397 Oh my God. 00:20:34.622 --> 00:20:34.982 CJ: Oh man. 00:20:34.982 --> 00:20:35.612 I know Craig. 00:20:36.243 --> 00:20:39.453 TestDuke: his motto was like, tell 'em what you're gonna tell them, then tell 00:20:39.453 --> 00:20:41.173 them, then tell them what you told them. 00:20:44.578 --> 00:20:45.268 CJ: Yeah. 00:20:45.288 --> 00:20:48.948 TestDuke: You're gonna pay a certain money and you're going to get this 00:20:49.070 --> 00:20:49.670 CJ: Right, 00:20:50.035 --> 00:20:53.185 TestDuke: it was to the point where , you would be stupid not to spend the money. 00:20:53.215 --> 00:20:54.745 'cause don't you want this? 00:20:55.000 --> 00:20:55.390 CJ: right. 00:20:56.365 --> 00:20:57.985 TestDuke: Isn't this valuable to you? 00:20:58.092 --> 00:21:02.442 And of simplifying it down to a two minute conversation when it was like months of. 00:21:02.917 --> 00:21:05.317 The absolute hardest coaching I've ever achieved. 00:21:05.420 --> 00:21:07.793 But what are you thinking? 00:21:08.333 --> 00:21:13.330 If you have this idea of what you can provide somebody and then you just 00:21:13.330 --> 00:21:15.457 deploy it and then you walk away? 00:21:16.237 --> 00:21:17.137 CJ: Yeah, nothing. 00:21:17.257 --> 00:21:23.507 TestDuke: Because remember, not your stakeholder's responsibility to understand 00:21:23.507 --> 00:21:25.097 what you just provided for them. 00:21:25.733 --> 00:21:25.943 They 00:21:26.123 --> 00:21:26.618 CJ: Ooh, ooh, ooh. 00:21:27.128 --> 00:21:28.208 No, no, no, no, no, no, no. 00:21:28.208 --> 00:21:28.898 Say that again, 00:21:29.933 --> 00:21:32.963 TestDuke: it's not your stakeholder's responsibility to understand 00:21:32.963 --> 00:21:34.343 what you just provided to them. 00:21:34.358 --> 00:21:34.748 CJ: man. 00:21:34.748 --> 00:21:35.288 Preach. 00:21:36.473 --> 00:21:39.863 TestDuke: And so they're not going to do it on their own impetus. 00:21:39.863 --> 00:21:41.243 They're too busy 00:21:42.038 --> 00:21:42.428 CJ: Yeah. 00:21:43.118 --> 00:21:43.298 And 00:21:43.408 --> 00:21:44.608 they don't always know how I. 00:21:44.863 --> 00:21:45.163 TestDuke: Yep. 00:21:45.223 --> 00:21:48.420 They don't always know how, and so it pays dividends. 00:21:48.450 --> 00:21:49.320 There's that word again. 00:21:49.690 --> 00:21:53.410 , Even if it's a month after deployment, hey, do these reports still work for 00:21:53.410 --> 00:21:58.410 you, are the reports that we provide, are the analytics that we provide? 00:21:58.651 --> 00:22:01.321 Actually improving the process for you. 00:22:02.186 --> 00:22:02.536 CJ: Right. 00:22:03.241 --> 00:22:06.301 TestDuke: It's not up to them to say, Hey, great job team. 00:22:06.484 --> 00:22:09.154 , A month later I'm so glad we did this. 00:22:09.514 --> 00:22:10.834 Not their responsibility. 00:22:10.834 --> 00:22:12.129 They have other things to do. 00:22:12.562 --> 00:22:14.869 CJ: and they might, but you can't depend on that. 00:22:15.259 --> 00:22:15.549 TestDuke: Yeah, 00:22:15.822 --> 00:22:20.502 CJ: But they asked you for a solution, and now you're delivering it. 00:22:21.072 --> 00:22:23.832 You need to make sure that the solution you delivered worked. 00:22:23.892 --> 00:22:25.062 Did it solve the problem? 00:22:25.062 --> 00:22:26.322 Did I address the issue? 00:22:26.772 --> 00:22:30.012 TestDuke: Because it might not have, and now you have the capability of 00:22:30.012 --> 00:22:31.876 going back and tailoring it back up. 00:22:32.511 --> 00:22:36.107 CJ: Yeah, and I'll tell you what else Duke, if you're a consultant, An 00:22:36.107 --> 00:22:40.617 independent like me, , the process of asking about that often unlocks additional 00:22:40.617 --> 00:22:42.477 value or additional work, right? 00:22:42.477 --> 00:22:44.187 You're like, Hey, did that thing I bill for you? 00:22:44.187 --> 00:22:45.327 Did that actually solve the problem? 00:22:45.507 --> 00:22:45.837 Yeah. 00:22:45.837 --> 00:22:46.527 You know, it did. 00:22:46.527 --> 00:22:47.337 But you know what? 00:22:47.517 --> 00:22:50.307 While I was using it, I realized that I could also use. 00:22:50.922 --> 00:22:51.372 TestDuke: Yep. 00:22:52.062 --> 00:22:57.432 Or, or even, no, it didn't, but it was like we had the wrong target all along. 00:22:57.432 --> 00:22:59.007 Please come back and help us get there. 00:22:59.307 --> 00:22:59.907 CJ: Yeah. 00:22:59.907 --> 00:23:00.177 Yeah. 00:23:00.177 --> 00:23:03.297 No, you just like, you actually know you built the thing for the thing we asked. 00:23:03.477 --> 00:23:06.147 It's just that we realized , we were targeting the wrong thing. 00:23:06.507 --> 00:23:10.257 And now we need to solve this other problem because your solution helped 00:23:10.257 --> 00:23:11.907 us at least rule out what it wasn't., 00:23:14.252 --> 00:23:16.382 You gotta validate the value that you're providing. 00:23:16.382 --> 00:23:16.652 Right. 00:23:16.652 --> 00:23:19.142 And you know, 'cause man, you know how 00:23:19.202 --> 00:23:22.262 TestDuke: dude, not, not, not just for you. 00:23:23.882 --> 00:23:24.302 know what I mean? 00:23:24.302 --> 00:23:28.652 Like if you're Acme's, ServiceNow person, An employee, 00:23:28.667 --> 00:23:29.017 CJ: Right. 00:23:29.770 --> 00:23:34.310 TestDuke: but also if you're in the partner ecosystem,, don't just go live 00:23:34.310 --> 00:23:35.840 and just like go on to the next one. 00:23:36.047 --> 00:23:37.632 Validate the value that you just did. 00:23:38.507 --> 00:23:39.257 CJ: Yes. 00:23:39.323 --> 00:23:40.103 Absolutely. 00:23:40.377 --> 00:23:41.997 How else do people know? 00:23:42.110 --> 00:23:43.370 You're good unless you tell 'em. 00:23:43.460 --> 00:23:43.730 Right. 00:23:43.730 --> 00:23:45.710 And I look, I think the problems still saying way. 00:23:45.710 --> 00:23:48.950 How else do they know that you solved this unless you ask them. 00:23:49.257 --> 00:23:49.797 TestDuke: bingo. 00:23:50.182 --> 00:23:51.707 CJ: we got next one's grooming, 00:23:53.230 --> 00:23:54.250 TestDuke: We allowed to say that. 00:23:56.545 --> 00:23:56.875 CJ: man. 00:23:56.875 --> 00:24:01.615 It has, it does like, it does have like some, some rather like disturbing 00:24:01.615 --> 00:24:03.295 connotations sometimes, right? 00:24:03.295 --> 00:24:03.955 We're not. 00:24:04.690 --> 00:24:05.350 TestDuke: the Yeah, exactly. 00:24:05.380 --> 00:24:07.950 We're talking about care and feeding , and selection. 00:24:07.950 --> 00:24:08.370 Right? 00:24:09.487 --> 00:24:12.637 I think that's the difference between a great product owner 00:24:12.667 --> 00:24:14.287 and an adequate product owner. 00:24:14.400 --> 00:24:20.440 Is the grooming, and I think you should go back and listen to our, episode on user 00:24:20.440 --> 00:24:25.597 councils because we know for a fact that there's always more stuff that people want 00:24:25.630 --> 00:24:28.815 than your ability and time to do it right. 00:24:29.405 --> 00:24:29.625 CJ: Yes, 00:24:29.977 --> 00:24:30.487 TestDuke: But. 00:24:30.597 --> 00:24:37.767 the spoils go to the person who can A, pick the stuff that looks the 00:24:37.767 --> 00:24:42.597 most impactful, and B, convinced everybody that we should focus on that. 00:24:43.055 --> 00:24:43.475 CJ: Yeah. 00:24:43.505 --> 00:24:46.939 Look, we got limited time, we gotta find , the most impactful things. 00:24:46.939 --> 00:24:49.839 We gotta deliver those things, that's where the whole term story 00:24:49.839 --> 00:24:52.945 grooming comes from, let's find those stories that actually matter 00:24:52.945 --> 00:24:54.025 and let's get them to the top, 00:24:54.715 --> 00:24:55.165 TestDuke: Yeah. 00:24:55.255 --> 00:24:57.085 CJ: and maybe it doesn't come from that, but that's, that's where it 00:24:57.085 --> 00:24:58.255 feels like it comes from for me. 00:24:58.465 --> 00:24:58.915 TestDuke: Right. 00:24:59.665 --> 00:25:03.145 It is some combination of prioritization plus definition. 00:25:03.345 --> 00:25:03.715 CJ: Yeah. 00:25:04.375 --> 00:25:04.825 And a lot. 00:25:04.825 --> 00:25:05.095 Yeah. 00:25:05.215 --> 00:25:08.125 TestDuke: like, yeah, this makes sense from a 10 foot thousand foot view, 00:25:08.125 --> 00:25:09.595 but, what are we actually gonna do? 00:25:09.595 --> 00:25:10.255 ? That's grooming. 00:25:10.555 --> 00:25:15.145 But also this is way more important than that, and that's also grooming. 00:25:15.329 --> 00:25:19.805 And so I think a great way to, not stall the engine. 00:25:20.075 --> 00:25:24.665 Go from victory to victory after deployment is good grooming. 00:25:25.075 --> 00:25:28.375 CJ: Because that just allows you to ensure that you're delivering 00:25:28.432 --> 00:25:33.352 top-notch, high impact value for the organization in a repeatable fashion. 00:25:34.489 --> 00:25:38.532 that, you're never getting into this spot where , oh, well I guess I'll 00:25:38.532 --> 00:25:42.642 just do this one UI action that nobody actually asks for, but is in the, 00:25:42.642 --> 00:25:44.382 is in the backlog, so I'll build it. 00:25:44.652 --> 00:25:44.832 Right? 00:25:44.832 --> 00:25:48.572 Like, no, no, you're not gonna build that, you're gonna look at that 00:25:48.572 --> 00:25:49.322 and you're gonna figure out here. 00:25:49.322 --> 00:25:50.672 So what does that thing do? 00:25:50.672 --> 00:25:54.212 And if nobody's asking for it, nobody wants it anywhere, you are 00:25:54.212 --> 00:25:55.052 gonna leave it in the backlog. 00:25:55.052 --> 00:25:56.222 You're gonna find something else. 00:25:56.750 --> 00:25:59.480 TestDuke: Yeah, but it is also the political savvy to say okay, 00:25:59.480 --> 00:26:03.670 listen, rejiggering the category tree for the umpteenth time this 00:26:03.670 --> 00:26:06.610 year is probably not as important as. 00:26:08.785 --> 00:26:12.625 new whole process that wants to come on the two chargeback management, 00:26:13.265 --> 00:26:13.555 CJ: Yeah. 00:26:14.059 --> 00:26:17.209 TestDuke: Any company that works with credit cards has to deal with chargebacks. 00:26:17.419 --> 00:26:21.362 It's a bajillion dollar industry, And so if your finance team comes and says, Hey, 00:26:21.412 --> 00:26:23.422 can we automate chargeback management? 00:26:23.772 --> 00:26:26.022 You're gonna save millions and millions in dollars. 00:26:26.022 --> 00:26:26.802 Something that. 00:26:26.849 --> 00:26:30.005 Category trees will never, ever, you know what I mean? 00:26:30.005 --> 00:26:34.835 Like it's just a, an and so you have to be the kind of person, again, unafraid 00:26:36.080 --> 00:26:36.140 CJ: Yeah. 00:26:36.365 --> 00:26:38.525 TestDuke: to kind of say what's more important to the whole 00:26:38.525 --> 00:26:41.015 business right now, this or that. 00:26:42.525 --> 00:26:42.645 CJ: I. 00:26:43.145 --> 00:26:46.685 TestDuke: for the umpteenth time, this episode, I will say, remember , you 00:26:46.685 --> 00:26:50.292 gotta have user councils to discuss this with, otherwise you're never gonna have 00:26:50.292 --> 00:26:51.882 a seat at the table for that discussion. 00:26:51.972 --> 00:26:53.232 They're just gonna say, do this. 00:26:53.742 --> 00:26:54.312 We don't care. 00:26:54.987 --> 00:26:58.397 CJ: Yeah, duke, and this one dovetails into the next one too, on 00:26:58.397 --> 00:27:02.214 alignment, does the, is the system, meeting the needs of the business. 00:27:02.572 --> 00:27:05.542 when you're thinking about grooming, what's gonna make a difference? 00:27:05.542 --> 00:27:07.012 Why is that going to make a difference? 00:27:07.012 --> 00:27:09.292 Because it's meeting the needs of the business, right? 00:27:09.292 --> 00:27:11.212 Do you know what the needs of business are? 00:27:11.382 --> 00:27:12.252 Yeah, you do. 00:27:12.252 --> 00:27:13.722 If you have that user council, 00:27:14.917 --> 00:27:15.207 TestDuke: Yeah, 00:27:15.432 --> 00:27:15.762 CJ: right? 00:27:16.362 --> 00:27:16.572 TestDuke: Yep. 00:27:16.955 --> 00:27:18.935 CJ: or are you just building to build? 00:27:18.969 --> 00:27:22.509 And if you're just building to build, I can guarantee you that the, that 00:27:22.509 --> 00:27:26.469 the platform internally does not have the reputation that it could have. 00:27:27.069 --> 00:27:29.379 TestDuke: Man, I'm getting getting goosebumps. 00:27:31.329 --> 00:27:32.649 Do you remember what it was like? 00:27:32.649 --> 00:27:36.149 Do you remember what it was like to be . The junior sub under drone in it is like 00:27:36.149 --> 00:27:37.979 that, that M effort doesn't look busy. 00:27:37.979 --> 00:27:38.909 Let's give him ServiceNow. 00:27:39.179 --> 00:27:40.694 CJ: Yeah, exactly that. 00:27:40.739 --> 00:27:41.489 TestDuke: You know what I mean? 00:27:41.489 --> 00:27:43.559 It's kinda like, who cares about that guy? 00:27:43.559 --> 00:27:45.599 He's just doing category three overhauls. 00:27:45.869 --> 00:27:48.239 And then you get ServiceNow, you deploy it. 00:27:48.244 --> 00:27:49.799 It's like, holy cow, that was awesome. 00:27:50.129 --> 00:27:53.369 And then you have such an opportunity to level up. 00:27:53.399 --> 00:27:58.589 Even now, 20 years later, you have this opportunity to become 00:27:58.589 --> 00:28:01.949 more than just this order entry. 00:28:02.067 --> 00:28:06.517 Drone that can possibly be replaced by agents, 00:28:07.267 --> 00:28:08.467 CJ: Yeah, nowadays. 00:28:08.467 --> 00:28:08.947 Right, 00:28:09.110 --> 00:28:09.470 TestDuke: Yeah. 00:28:09.557 --> 00:28:12.047 I still have goosebumps that it's still there. 00:28:12.467 --> 00:28:15.167 That energy is still there, but it's a human energy 00:28:15.334 --> 00:28:15.994 CJ: this dude. 00:28:16.024 --> 00:28:17.134 So story time, right? 00:28:17.134 --> 00:28:18.064 Like, it's so funny. 00:28:18.264 --> 00:28:24.424 I landed, magic Total Service Desk, back in the day because I was not busy. 00:28:26.494 --> 00:28:28.204 , We had done some organizational shifts. 00:28:29.039 --> 00:28:32.829 Some folks went over here, some folks went over there, I didn't wanna go over 00:28:32.829 --> 00:28:35.909 there, , because there was a lot of travel involved with going over there. 00:28:36.119 --> 00:28:40.382 And the team that was running Magic was our, , app dev team, and they 00:28:40.382 --> 00:28:41.642 felt like it was beneath them. 00:28:41.789 --> 00:28:45.224 And my, uh, director, was like, Hey, you wanna take this thing over? 00:28:45.535 --> 00:28:49.455 And , all I knew is that it had been run by developers and I 00:28:49.455 --> 00:28:52.715 didn't know how to code, but I was like, sure, I'll take it over. 00:28:52.775 --> 00:28:54.215 And I did that for two different reasons. 00:28:54.215 --> 00:28:56.855 One, I wasn't busy and I always like a challenge. 00:28:56.855 --> 00:29:01.455 And two, this was a project that was be lined straight to him. 00:29:01.742 --> 00:29:04.562 So not even my direct boss, his boss. 00:29:06.227 --> 00:29:08.207 . So I'm like, yeah, I'll take this. 00:29:08.207 --> 00:29:10.577 If I can take this and kill this man, I'm back on. 00:29:12.094 --> 00:29:13.384 and that's exactly what I did. 00:29:13.594 --> 00:29:14.854 I took it, I killed it. 00:29:15.364 --> 00:29:18.970 And all of a sudden a relationship with, my vp, which had been, you 00:29:18.970 --> 00:29:23.530 know, amicable at best before, became like we were bosom buddies. 00:29:23.680 --> 00:29:25.360 Now we're speaking the same language. 00:29:25.360 --> 00:29:27.340 I'm talking to him almost every day. 00:29:28.057 --> 00:29:31.350 the next thing I know, like I'm going out to London a few times 00:29:31.350 --> 00:29:34.854 a year, we're catching up and then boom, magic goes into life. 00:29:35.484 --> 00:29:39.177 ServiceNow comes, rest is history, It's those little things, man, 00:29:39.177 --> 00:29:41.154 that, life gives you opportunities. 00:29:41.454 --> 00:29:42.799 That's why I always say, say yes to everything. 00:29:43.157 --> 00:29:46.007 Because you never know which one of those decisions, is going to turn 00:29:46.007 --> 00:29:49.577 into your career making opportunity or your life changing opportunity. 00:29:49.817 --> 00:29:52.007 'cause this wasn't even a career making opportunity. 00:29:52.007 --> 00:29:57.137 It was, but it wasn't just that it completely changed my entire life. 00:29:57.734 --> 00:30:01.827 All because I was sat at my desk and I was not busy. 00:30:02.277 --> 00:30:06.507 And he was like, Hey, do you wanna do this thing that I had no idea if I could do. 00:30:08.037 --> 00:30:08.337 TestDuke: Yep. 00:30:08.367 --> 00:30:11.610 It's a paradox, it seems so low level, they wanna just 00:30:11.610 --> 00:30:12.810 give it to somebody, right? 00:30:12.810 --> 00:30:14.970 Like, and preferably somebody cheap, 00:30:15.810 --> 00:30:16.230 CJ: Yeah. 00:30:16.500 --> 00:30:16.860 Yep. 00:30:17.025 --> 00:30:21.585 TestDuke: you can be that person and then step up in an entirely new world 00:30:21.975 --> 00:30:27.029 of, job satisfaction and compensation even now, even all these years later. 00:30:27.259 --> 00:30:27.679 Wow. 00:30:27.709 --> 00:30:27.919 Okay. 00:30:27.919 --> 00:30:29.359 That was three, six minutes of record. 00:30:31.969 --> 00:30:34.215 So let's just go through a real quick, synopsis. 00:30:34.775 --> 00:30:40.055 to avoid that post implementation blues, the post implementation stall, 00:30:40.475 --> 00:30:48.605 concentrate on reporting, curiosity, value validation, grooming, and initiative. 00:30:48.635 --> 00:30:50.465 It's all in your hands. 00:30:50.465 --> 00:30:52.145 Also, checking the description below, we're gonna have that 00:30:52.515 --> 00:30:55.005 link to the episode we did on. 00:30:55.084 --> 00:30:56.224 User councils. 00:30:56.224 --> 00:30:58.024 That's gonna help you a ton in this process. 00:30:58.354 --> 00:30:58.684 Man. 00:30:58.684 --> 00:30:59.944 I hope you got some value outta this one. 00:30:59.944 --> 00:31:01.504 This was a lot of fun, man. 00:31:02.134 --> 00:31:02.584 CJ: This was a. 00:31:04.534 --> 00:31:06.424 TestDuke: I feel like I'm so happy we did this. 00:31:06.687 --> 00:31:08.577 I was about to go take a nap when you met. 00:31:11.742 --> 00:31:14.352 CJ: I just, dude, it was like, I, it was so funny. 00:31:14.495 --> 00:31:17.555 I was running with I AI earlier and then I just popped back over 00:31:17.555 --> 00:31:21.192 to the tab and it was like, . Chat GT five, Do you want to try it? 00:31:21.252 --> 00:31:23.892 I'm, lemme run this query again with chat GPT five. 00:31:27.987 --> 00:31:31.227 TestDuke: Episode five, we'll get something done. 00:31:31.242 --> 00:31:33.397 CJ: Yes, we'll do it live. 00:31:34.392 --> 00:31:35.562 TestDuke: Ask it for an outro. 00:31:35.592 --> 00:31:36.432 That's what we should do 00:31:36.612 --> 00:31:37.397 CJ: That's what we should do. 00:31:39.792 --> 00:31:39.882 TestDuke: The.