TestDuke: Man, I don't know about you, man, but I wanna talk about some stuff
CJ: man, duke, you know, I've been in to talk about some stuff.
TestDuke: actually, for real.
We just did some chat GPT stuff like, Hey, what kind of episodes should we do?
And we're so motivated right now.
CJ: Seriously, man.
Like chad GTP five, came through like a rockstar.
this thing is nuts.
TestDuke: it's like it ran our stuff.
CJ: Well, maybe it did,
TestDuke: All right.
So, gosh, we had so many things, so many things to choose from.
So what did we pick?
CJ: we went with, uh, beyond Go live.
The secret to Keeping Momentum.
TestDuke: sometimes you get to the end of a deployment and it's like,
whew, finally we got that done.
And it's way easier than, legacy tools.
, But.
How do you keep that energy going?
Sometimes it's natural.
Sometimes it's just like, wow, that went awesome.
Let's just do a whole bunch more.
And sometimes, maybe it doesn't, not so much that way.
Right.
CJ: Sometimes you just struggle to get to the end, and you got there and everyone's
like, okay, at least that's finally done.
. TestDuke: And for our audience it matters because you don't wanna just
be the person who helped us get across the finish line and congratulations.
Now you're in stasis mode for the next, however long we are all about
career progression and getting new skills and moving on up.
And so you don't want it to stagnate post, go live.
CJ: Yeah.
And you wanna maximize the value of the platform for
your, , organization too, right?
Like ultimately, I where I see a lot of ServiceNow implementations failing is
once you accomplish it, you don't take it to that next level, and then the,
the organization you're with, right?
Like they see that value from that initial implementation.
but they're looking for like, what's the stage two value?
What's the stage three value?
? Because that's part of the selling process, right?
Everyone is looking to the future to see, okay, I know I can get this
right here, but it's the stage two thing that's, really going to help us.
TestDuke: And hard truths here.
, The hardest lesson I learned in my sales enablement years was this concept of,
yeah, but what did you do for me lately?
CJ: Yeah.
Yeah.
TestDuke: Like, you can, you can knock somebody's socks off in year one.
Like, this is amazing, but the very next year they're like, yeah, but come on.
What did you do for me lately?
CJ: Man, sales, consulting and politics are pick one, right?
Like they're all this, they're all that.
TestDuke: So, Corey and I did some thinking.
We put some points together and here we go.
CJ: All right, dude..
Let's start with one of your favorites.
Reporting.
TestDuke: Oh, yes.
So whenever I see a post go live, that stalled.
It went live.
Yeah, whatever.
And there's no more strategic outlook for what we can do next.
It's because there wasn't a focus on reporting.
beginning, middle, or end.
We just didn't hit the mark on reporting.
So this is something, you should always have a mind on.
'cause good news spreads.
Like if you can prove that something worked that was worth the money,
like I don't think people realize just how rare that is in an
industry where like the meme, right?
75% of it projects fail or, or, or whatever, right?
If you can show that, hey, we spent this time and energy and
money and it was totally worth it,
CJ: Absolutely.
TestDuke: That news gets around fast and people all around are
like, wow, I want some of that.
I mean, Corey, you and I were lucky enough to be there at the beginning, ? Where,
it had had these ticketing tools forever.
CJ: Yeah.
TestDuke: and the rest of the business didn't, , HR was working off of email.
PMO was working off of email everybody, email, email, email.
CJ: Excel spreadsheets, man.
TestDuke: Yeah, exactly.
And as, yeah, and as soon as ServiceNow got better at deploying the ITSM suite
and doing good reporting behind it.
The rest of the org was like, holy cow, what's this like, that's awesome.
I want some of that.
CJ: Yeah all it takes is like a creative, ServiceNow architect,
to go to the business and be like, Hey, have you seen this?
And then boom, uncork it.
TestDuke: Yeah, exactly.
And I feel like a lot of times reporting is an afterthought.
and it's defacto ad hoc, like reporting is when somebody emails me and tells me,
Hey, I just need this report, and it's, show me incidents by priority or show me
incidents by category, blah, blah, blah.
But nobody's really thinking about what are the things that
indicate that the process is doing its job successfully or poorly.
Like, I, I really don't care.
Right?
If you showed me that, we deployed and you built the reporting correctly,
and all the metrics are coming back, like, Hey, this is a pretty shit
situation here, to be honest with you,
right?
But the good news is we know how to improve, we know that we're doing badly
Now what do we do to get it better?
CJ: And look, the information , that we're doing poorly is
valuable information, right?
Like, just be right.
Like, just because it's negative doesn't mean that it's negative, it
gives you a sense of where you are.
So you know, the changes need to be made.
That's valuable to the organization.
I.
TestDuke: Yeah, my son's in jujitsu, And , they were showing him that, , you're
doing this technique totally wrong.
And he was sad about it, and I'm like, why are you sad about it?
Because you wanna know now when you're in practice that you're
doing this technique wrong.
Where you don't wanna find out about it is when somebody is on top of you
and pounding the crap out of you,
you know, now is great.
It's the best time to find out that you're doing it completely wrong.
Now is the best time for that.
CJ: Yes.
So you don't want to know when you try that throw and
you fall instead of They do.
TestDuke: exactly.
Exactly, exactly.
Some movie is gonna make you super exposed or whatever, oh gosh.
I think we could do an entire episode on the reporting alone.
CJ: Dude.
TestDuke: Have we, there's a hundred and some episodes, I'm sure.
We've talked about reporting once or twice.
CJ: Once or twice maybe.
I, I don't know, duke, I'm losing track.
TestDuke: We'll put some links in the description below.
Everybody take a shot.
CJ: because reporting is communication, right?
And communication is the underlying basis of a successful platform, process,
program, Organization, you name it,, if you don't have that communication set,
You're never gonna be able to communicate.
You can't say communication defines communication.
Right.
But you're never going to be able to, portray that value or the
absence of it to the organization.
And that's what reporting does,
TestDuke: Yeah.
Sometimes a platform owner, you gotta be an internal sales rep almost.
CJ: Yeah.
You always are.
It's not even sometimes Duke.
TestDuke: I stand corrected, bro.
CJ: You are the de facto platform evangelist,
TestDuke: Yeah.
CJ: and if you're not doing it, nobody else is going to do it.
And ultimately.
Your job depends on the business buying into the platform,
Because that's what you do.
You are a Service now person now, Inside of this organization.
And so your job is the care and feeding and attending of the platform.
And in order to ensure that the business keeps the platform around,
you gotta sell it, and so you need to go out , and you need to be knocking
on doors inside the organization.
Tell 'em, Hey, have you heard of our Lord and Savior service?
Now, let me show you.
TestDuke: Well actually remember that episode we did on the user councils.
CJ: Yes.
TestDuke: Maybe post-deployment, you go back to your user councils and be
like, okay, listen, just to review, here's the capabilities that the current
people on ServiceNow can, leverage, we've automated these kind of workflows,
so there's less work to be done.
We've got visibility to this kind of work.
We've got governance on this kind of work.
CJ: Yep.
TestDuke: And we can definitively show the C-suite that, KPIs are
improving here, here, and here,
CJ: Right,
TestDuke: but they're not gonna like, like people got stuff to do.
That's their own jobs, They're not gonna be like, oh, hey, I
should brag about ServiceNow.
They're too busy figuring out how to increase their,
performance in their own domain.
CJ: Right.
TestDuke: So you've gotta be the one that kind of showcases the capabilities
that you've just, deployed into, those people who went live with you.
CJ: and not only that, duke, ? This is just a good career move, ? No matter what
you're doing, no matter what your role is.
Even if you're listening to this podcast and you are not in the ServiceNow
world, being able to communicate value.
is just a great career move and that's what reporting allows you to do.
So evangelists, no matter what you're doing, ServiceNow or not,
but definitely if you're ServiceNow.
All right, dude, what we got next?
TestDuke: Curiosity, because people aren't always gonna come to you.
I hearken back to my early, early experiences with ServiceNow, and we
were working with legacy tools, so the main selling point of ServiceNow
was just how much faster it could go.
CJ: Yeah.
TestDuke: You know what I mean?
And we replaced HP Serv OpenView Service Desk.
Probably the worst thing human beings have ever designed.
But, but we had replaced OpenView service desk and we did it in like a quarter
of the time that we thought we would.
And so we were kind of low key scared like,
CJ: We missed something.
TestDuke: yeah, we have to look busy, right?
And so, we started asking around, like we started talking to our peers throughout
it, and , what are you struggling with?
And I hit the mother load, man, I was talking to this guy Ron.
and Ron was the type of guy, they would just say, Hey Ron, solve this problem.
And he'd disappear for like two or three months.
He'd come back with, piles of Excel sheets and he'd be like,
all right, here's what's wrong
and here's what we need to do.
And he worked next to me.
I'm like, Hey Ron, what's, what's going on in your world?
And he is like, well, shoot, let me show you all these Excel sheets and
how bad global onboarding sucks and blah, blah, blah, blah was just like,
and he talked to me for like two hours straight and then it was like, Hey, how
about we just put that in service now?
But nobody asked for it.
CJ: Right,
TestDuke: Ron didn't know that he can come to us and say, Hey, wouldn't it
be nice if we put this in ServiceNow?
The C-Suite certainly didn't know all of the VP levels were
preoccupied with other stuff.
Everybody forgotten about Ron and this whole like global onboarding thing, but
I swear that process saved, millions and millions and millions of dollars.
Like I wish they'd had given me like a 0.1%
just.
Piece of that pie like you, because he had worked it all out and it
never would've come to our desk.
If I hadn't have gone to Ron and said, Hey Ron, I hear you're
doing some onboarding analysis.
tell me how badly that sucks and then just listen to 'em, rant.
CJ: Yeah,
TestDuke: So you really need to be curious about what's going on.
Another time, like when I worked at Hyatt Hotels or finance, talking about people
who are doing, dispute on their bill or they've got a chargeback or a global
contact center for stuff that's like, it's not even it, it's just hotel experience,
CJ: Right.
TestDuke: And just sitting and talking with them and the
struggle that they have with.
The dozens of email accounts that people email or you know, the
rigid processes that can't be rigid 'cause it's just sitting in email.
So curiosity, That's the thing.
Curiosity, they aren't going to come to you sometimes.
You've gotta be the one that just says, Hey listen, tell me how
badly your world sucks right now.
CJ: Yeah.
You know what, duke as a, corollary to that, There's problem leakage.
I know that sounds like a commercial for a new a condition that a new drug, treats.
But the way I think about problem leakage is that you're in the company, right?
And there's always somebody who has a need for thing, ? They're having a problem, but
they might not necessarily be talking to you about it, but it's in the air in the
organization, It's like, man, if we can only get this thing to do the other thing.
It will save so much time and effort for everybody involved.
And , it's not necessarily an IT thing, it's a business thing or whatever.
It might not even be in your department, in your group, whatever, ? But it's
in the air, And so now you gotta pluck it out the air and think, huh, my best
service down could help with that.
And then, so boom, two days later you gotta, a pilot, you gotta go
find the people who are having this problem and say, look.
This is what I, I, I genned up based on what I heard you guys are doing
or what I heard you guys need, or even just before you even do all
of that, just go knock on the door.
Hey, I heard you guys are trying to, blah, blah, you know, you got this
huge Excel spreadsheet trying to send these emails, et cetera, et cetera.
I can help with that.
And it's because you're listening, ? It's because you're curious about
what the organization is doing outside of just what you do.
That's important.
And that's how you pick up some of those other struggles that you can
then integrate into the platform.
TestDuke: Yeah, man, I like, that's just another key word to this
whole thing is just initiative.
CJ: Oh yeah.
That's what that is.
TestDuke: Like there's, Islam has this saying that I just absolutely
love, and they say if the mountain won't come to Mohammad, then
Mohammad must go to the mountain.
Right.
It's just, it's one or the other.
CJ: Yep.
TestDuke: That mountain isn't moving anywhere.
CJ: Yep.
So.
TestDuke: That's right.
What are you gonna do?
Well, Mohammad must go to the mountain.
And so in these cases post go live, you're in a kind of stasis, it's up to you.
Exercise your agency, exercise your initiatives, go out and get it.
And that either means what we just talked about, , being curious about
the struggles across the organization.
Being unafraid to interrupt Conversa being Yeah.
to interrupt conversations.
Well, I think we can help you with ServiceNow,
CJ: Yeah.
TestDuke: right?
, Familiarity breeds contempt, right?
And we're at the stage now where sometimes people are like,
oh, this ServiceNow, whatever.
Right?
CJ: yeah,
TestDuke: But it's because they haven't been told.
What do we have right now that can actually help you?
CJ: yeah.
And it's because they have , an impression of what the platform is already, and
nobody's dis abused them of that notion.
And so when you end up in that situation, you have to change minds.
You gotta be unafraid to do so.
And you gotta be unafraid to pull somebody's coattails, And you get in that
conversation, get in that room and, say what, you can do to help or just, Hey,
I don't know if I can help, but I'd like to listen to see, if maybe I can right it
doesn't hurt anything to have you sit in the room and listen to the conversations.
Right?
and I think it's really important.
This is one of the things I think that has helped my career, at various
strategic points along the way, is just being unafraid to speak
up or, and ask to be in the room.
And when I get in the room, to be unafraid, to offer my input.
When I think I can matter.
I'll tell you a story real quick, duke, is this is.
TestDuke: can we just try an organ in here and just.
CJ: We'll do it in post.
So at, at my last, job, And probably the last job that I'll ever work.
it was early, early, my tenure there.
I don't know, may, maybe I was there a couple months and our website went down.
And it was a website for a company we had just acquired.
And we have put a lot of money and effort into this.
, So this is like 2000 or early 2001.
And so this is our web strategy and our website is down,
and the CTO is freaking out.
And this is such a big deal that he's got the smartest guy in the company, in
his office with his laptop, literally trying to debug what's going on.
and you don't know how bad this stuff has to be for you to have
like your top engineer in the CTO's office literally troubleshooting.
And, and so while he's doing that, I'm just curious.
I'm like, oh, this thing's down.
Let me see what I can figure out.
Right?
And so I'm an IT guy, right?
And I've done network and all that stuff in the past.
So, I'm digging around like, okay, this site's not resolving what's
going on, blah blah blue, you know, do some traders routing.
It's say, oh, it's dropping here.
Figure out what that site is.
Boom.
It's not us, right?
we're down because, one of our providers went down and are now
dropping all of our packets.
I immediately called the CTO's office.
Now, look, I've been there for months, not years, like a few months.
I called the CTO's office, I'm like, Hey, it looks like our provider's
edge router is down and that's why nobody can get to our site.
And, and he's like, yeah.
uh, Michael was just telling me the exact same thing.
I'll tell you what that got me.
I ended up going to lunch with the CTO the next week, and from then on I was on his.
radar for the, my entire tenure there, for his entire tenure there.
, We became close.
He came to my wedding, like, all from that one conversation to that one piece
of initiative not being scared, To get in there and get my hands dirty.
And when I felt like I had a, fix or a solution or at least a diagnosis, right?
To literally call his office.
Like, who is this guy calling the CTO?
Well.
TestDuke: Man, I'm telling you, initiative is better than being right.
CJ: Absolutely.
TestDuke: it is better than being right because you either get the
dividends Of being in the scrum of like, what the hell's going on here?
Well, I think it might be this, right?
You get the dividends of being in the scrum or you get corrected.
I think it might be this.
No, dude, it's not that it's this, but at least you are in the scrum.
CJ: yeah.
You're on
TestDuke: know what I mean?
CJ: now.
You're on the team now.
TestDuke: Yeah, exactly.
They know you now, your name that was in the scrum, there's a hundred
other names that maybe had an idea that weren't in the scrum.
CJ: because they never
TestDuke: I'm not talking the Agile scrum, I'm talking about the like.
You know, I'm talking about the Aussie rules football
CJ: Yeah.
Yeah.
TestDuke: right?
And everybody's just trying to push this ball forward, another foot.
CJ: Yep.
TestDuke: there's just initiative is better than being right.
Nobody's right all the time.
Who cares?
But the initiative is what counts.
It's what puts your name in the headlights.
Corey was there with us while we tried to get it.
It just so happens you were right too, so that was an extra bonus.
That's it.
Like the dividends multiply if you're actually right too.
CJ: Yeah, absolutely, man.
Just, just step up.
TestDuke: Wow.
This went all kinds of different crazy places.
CJ: it love it though?
Love it.
All of it valuable, right?
TestDuke: so we did reporting, curiosity, grooming.
No, no, we didn't do grooming.
CJ: didn't do, yeah, we didn't do value validation.
I wanna skip that one, right?
Because that's , interesting
TestDuke: Let's hit that one right now.
What's value validation, Corey?
CJ: when I think about value validation, I'm thinking about did the thing that we
built for you actually solve your problem, you just paid us a ton of money If we're
a consultant or if I'm internal, right?
Like, you're paying my salary, so you're paying me a ton of money.
You let me devote X amount of time to this project.
Ultimately because the business needs this outcome.
Did it achieve the outcome that we thought it would at the beginning of the project?
? TestDuke: Yes.
Yes, man.
Okay.
So I, for a while, I, worked in sales enablement and I had this
great sales coach, Craig Pratt.
Oh my God.
CJ: Oh man.
I know Craig.
TestDuke: his motto was like, tell 'em what you're gonna tell them, then tell
them, then tell them what you told them.
CJ: Yeah.
TestDuke: You're gonna pay a certain money and you're going to get this
CJ: Right,
TestDuke: it was to the point where , you would be stupid not to spend the money.
'cause don't you want this?
CJ: right.
TestDuke: Isn't this valuable to you?
And of simplifying it down to a two minute conversation when it was like months of.
The absolute hardest coaching I've ever achieved.
But what are you thinking?
If you have this idea of what you can provide somebody and then you just
deploy it and then you walk away?
CJ: Yeah, nothing.
TestDuke: Because remember, not your stakeholder's responsibility to understand
what you just provided for them.
They
CJ: Ooh, ooh, ooh.
No, no, no, no, no, no, no.
Say that again,
TestDuke: it's not your stakeholder's responsibility to understand
what you just provided to them.
CJ: man.
Preach.
TestDuke: And so they're not going to do it on their own impetus.
They're too busy
CJ: Yeah.
And
they don't always know how I.
TestDuke: Yep.
They don't always know how, and so it pays dividends.
There's that word again.
, Even if it's a month after deployment, hey, do these reports still work for
you, are the reports that we provide, are the analytics that we provide?
Actually improving the process for you.
CJ: Right.
TestDuke: It's not up to them to say, Hey, great job team.
, A month later I'm so glad we did this.
Not their responsibility.
They have other things to do.
CJ: and they might, but you can't depend on that.
TestDuke: Yeah,
CJ: But they asked you for a solution, and now you're delivering it.
You need to make sure that the solution you delivered worked.
Did it solve the problem?
Did I address the issue?
TestDuke: Because it might not have, and now you have the capability of
going back and tailoring it back up.
CJ: Yeah, and I'll tell you what else Duke, if you're a consultant, An
independent like me, , the process of asking about that often unlocks additional
value or additional work, right?
You're like, Hey, did that thing I bill for you?
Did that actually solve the problem?
Yeah.
You know, it did.
But you know what?
While I was using it, I realized that I could also use.
TestDuke: Yep.
Or, or even, no, it didn't, but it was like we had the wrong target all along.
Please come back and help us get there.
CJ: Yeah.
Yeah.
No, you just like, you actually know you built the thing for the thing we asked.
It's just that we realized , we were targeting the wrong thing.
And now we need to solve this other problem because your solution helped
us at least rule out what it wasn't.,
You gotta validate the value that you're providing.
Right.
And you know, 'cause man, you know how
TestDuke: dude, not, not, not just for you.
know what I mean?
Like if you're Acme's, ServiceNow person, An employee,
CJ: Right.
TestDuke: but also if you're in the partner ecosystem,, don't just go live
and just like go on to the next one.
Validate the value that you just did.
CJ: Yes.
Absolutely.
How else do people know?
You're good unless you tell 'em.
Right.
And I look, I think the problems still saying way.
How else do they know that you solved this unless you ask them.
TestDuke: bingo.
CJ: we got next one's grooming,
TestDuke: We allowed to say that.
CJ: man.
It has, it does like, it does have like some, some rather like disturbing
connotations sometimes, right?
We're not.
TestDuke: the Yeah, exactly.
We're talking about care and feeding , and selection.
Right?
I think that's the difference between a great product owner
and an adequate product owner.
Is the grooming, and I think you should go back and listen to our, episode on user
councils because we know for a fact that there's always more stuff that people want
than your ability and time to do it right.
CJ: Yes,
TestDuke: But.
the spoils go to the person who can A, pick the stuff that looks the
most impactful, and B, convinced everybody that we should focus on that.
CJ: Yeah.
Look, we got limited time, we gotta find , the most impactful things.
We gotta deliver those things, that's where the whole term story
grooming comes from, let's find those stories that actually matter
and let's get them to the top,
TestDuke: Yeah.
CJ: and maybe it doesn't come from that, but that's, that's where it
feels like it comes from for me.
TestDuke: Right.
It is some combination of prioritization plus definition.
CJ: Yeah.
And a lot.
Yeah.
TestDuke: like, yeah, this makes sense from a 10 foot thousand foot view,
but, what are we actually gonna do?
? That's grooming.
But also this is way more important than that, and that's also grooming.
And so I think a great way to, not stall the engine.
Go from victory to victory after deployment is good grooming.
CJ: Because that just allows you to ensure that you're delivering
top-notch, high impact value for the organization in a repeatable fashion.
that, you're never getting into this spot where , oh, well I guess I'll
just do this one UI action that nobody actually asks for, but is in the,
is in the backlog, so I'll build it.
Right?
Like, no, no, you're not gonna build that, you're gonna look at that
and you're gonna figure out here.
So what does that thing do?
And if nobody's asking for it, nobody wants it anywhere, you are
gonna leave it in the backlog.
You're gonna find something else.
TestDuke: Yeah, but it is also the political savvy to say okay,
listen, rejiggering the category tree for the umpteenth time this
year is probably not as important as.
new whole process that wants to come on the two chargeback management,
CJ: Yeah.
TestDuke: Any company that works with credit cards has to deal with chargebacks.
It's a bajillion dollar industry, And so if your finance team comes and says, Hey,
can we automate chargeback management?
You're gonna save millions and millions in dollars.
Something that.
Category trees will never, ever, you know what I mean?
Like it's just a, an and so you have to be the kind of person, again, unafraid
CJ: Yeah.
TestDuke: to kind of say what's more important to the whole
business right now, this or that.
CJ: I.
TestDuke: for the umpteenth time, this episode, I will say, remember , you
gotta have user councils to discuss this with, otherwise you're never gonna have
a seat at the table for that discussion.
They're just gonna say, do this.
We don't care.
CJ: Yeah, duke, and this one dovetails into the next one too, on
alignment, does the, is the system, meeting the needs of the business.
when you're thinking about grooming, what's gonna make a difference?
Why is that going to make a difference?
Because it's meeting the needs of the business, right?
Do you know what the needs of business are?
Yeah, you do.
If you have that user council,
TestDuke: Yeah,
CJ: right?
TestDuke: Yep.
CJ: or are you just building to build?
And if you're just building to build, I can guarantee you that the, that
the platform internally does not have the reputation that it could have.
TestDuke: Man, I'm getting getting goosebumps.
Do you remember what it was like?
Do you remember what it was like to be . The junior sub under drone in it is like
that, that M effort doesn't look busy.
Let's give him ServiceNow.
CJ: Yeah, exactly that.
TestDuke: You know what I mean?
It's kinda like, who cares about that guy?
He's just doing category three overhauls.
And then you get ServiceNow, you deploy it.
It's like, holy cow, that was awesome.
And then you have such an opportunity to level up.
Even now, 20 years later, you have this opportunity to become
more than just this order entry.
Drone that can possibly be replaced by agents,
CJ: Yeah, nowadays.
Right,
TestDuke: Yeah.
I still have goosebumps that it's still there.
That energy is still there, but it's a human energy
CJ: this dude.
So story time, right?
Like, it's so funny.
I landed, magic Total Service Desk, back in the day because I was not busy.
, We had done some organizational shifts.
Some folks went over here, some folks went over there, I didn't wanna go over
there, , because there was a lot of travel involved with going over there.
And the team that was running Magic was our, , app dev team, and they
felt like it was beneath them.
And my, uh, director, was like, Hey, you wanna take this thing over?
And , all I knew is that it had been run by developers and I
didn't know how to code, but I was like, sure, I'll take it over.
And I did that for two different reasons.
One, I wasn't busy and I always like a challenge.
And two, this was a project that was be lined straight to him.
So not even my direct boss, his boss.
. So I'm like, yeah, I'll take this.
If I can take this and kill this man, I'm back on.
and that's exactly what I did.
I took it, I killed it.
And all of a sudden a relationship with, my vp, which had been, you
know, amicable at best before, became like we were bosom buddies.
Now we're speaking the same language.
I'm talking to him almost every day.
the next thing I know, like I'm going out to London a few times
a year, we're catching up and then boom, magic goes into life.
ServiceNow comes, rest is history, It's those little things, man,
that, life gives you opportunities.
That's why I always say, say yes to everything.
Because you never know which one of those decisions, is going to turn
into your career making opportunity or your life changing opportunity.
'cause this wasn't even a career making opportunity.
It was, but it wasn't just that it completely changed my entire life.
All because I was sat at my desk and I was not busy.
And he was like, Hey, do you wanna do this thing that I had no idea if I could do.
TestDuke: Yep.
It's a paradox, it seems so low level, they wanna just
give it to somebody, right?
Like, and preferably somebody cheap,
CJ: Yeah.
Yep.
TestDuke: you can be that person and then step up in an entirely new world
of, job satisfaction and compensation even now, even all these years later.
Wow.
Okay.
That was three, six minutes of record.
So let's just go through a real quick, synopsis.
to avoid that post implementation blues, the post implementation stall,
concentrate on reporting, curiosity, value validation, grooming, and initiative.
It's all in your hands.
Also, checking the description below, we're gonna have that
link to the episode we did on.
User councils.
That's gonna help you a ton in this process.
Man.
I hope you got some value outta this one.
This was a lot of fun, man.
CJ: This was a.
TestDuke: I feel like I'm so happy we did this.
I was about to go take a nap when you met.
CJ: I just, dude, it was like, I, it was so funny.
I was running with I AI earlier and then I just popped back over
to the tab and it was like, . Chat GT five, Do you want to try it?
I'm, lemme run this query again with chat GPT five.
TestDuke: Episode five, we'll get something done.
CJ: Yes, we'll do it live.
TestDuke: Ask it for an outro.
That's what we should do
CJ: That's what we should do.
TestDuke: The.