All right, how's it going everyone?
Welcome to another episode of Forward Thinking Founders.
We talk to founders about their visions for the future of the world, where the markets are going and how the two collide.
Today I'm very excited to be talking to Jared Lerner, who is the co-founder and ZZZEO of Napper.
Welcome to the show.
How is it going, sir?
Going well, thanks for having me, Matt.
Appreciate it.
Yeah, excited to have you on.
Looking forward to learning more about Napper.
We obviously know about each other.
You know, we've known each other for a bit, but the world may not know about you.
So I'm stoked to highlight what you're doing here.
So let's kick it off.
What is Napper?
Yeah, so Napper is a marketplace that offers thousands of two to 12 hour rates at brands like Marriott and Hilton, crypto 75 % off the overnight rate and with all the amenities
included.
We've got over 1,135 hotels in 29 countries and our mission is to really help people get through a hectic day when they don't have the means to rest or relax wherever they are.
Okay, so let's use an example.
am a founder and let's say I, you know, I need a place to stay but not sleep.
I just need a place to sleep for like five hours or six hours.
Like I don't need five days, but I need something temporary.
How would I, and let's say it's like, I don't know, San Francisco.
It's like, you know, I'm in middle of conferences or something.
Walk me through how I would use Napper.
Is there an app?
Do I go onto your website?
Is it through the hotel?
Yeah, how does it work?
Yeah, everything is booked right on our website or our mobile app.
We're on Android and iOS.
You go to our site or apps, you browse hotels, you can look at the amenities on there.
You could filter by distance from you, price, time, et cetera.
And you can book right on the site.
It takes a minute maybe.
And then you go to the hotel and pay there, just like any other stay.
You're just there for less time.
So it's very...
flexible and convenient and very seamless to book really.
Who was the ICP for this?
Who was your most common customer that uses this on a recurring basis?
Yeah, the most common is definitely the traveler, either for business or leisure.
uh If you think about getting off of Red Eye at 7 a.m.
or 8 a.m., you usually can't check into your hotel, your overnight hotel, until 3 p.m.
So you're kind of just stranded for seven or eight hours.
You're exhausted.
Most people don't sleep on planes.
I certainly don't.
And a lot of people just get by with caffeine right now.
They just chug three or four cups of coffee.
It's not healthy.
leads to burnout, this is a much more convenient way to get through the day, much healthier way.
uh At the end of the day, you just want to rest when you're tired and exhausted from jet lag.
So that's a big use case for us.
Also during layovers, who wants to spend four hours or five hours in an airport when you could be at a hotel instead?
Or on the same token, if you're delayed, if your flight's pushed back a few hours, it's a great use case for that as well.
So we definitely try to target
travelers who just have some extra time during their day and are probably pretty tired.
Yeah, that makes a lot of sense.
And, you know, don't give any of your secret sauce.
I say this every time, you know, I never try to get secret sauce.
I'm just trying to understand more.
Do you essentially, you partner with these hotels so they know who you are, they know who Napper is, you integrate, be like an API?
Like how does it work?
The fact that you integrate into so many hotels is wild.
Like what's going on behind the scenes there?
Yeah, it's all connected via APIs.
So we get times and prices sent to us.
We list them for the hotels.
And then whenever we get a booking, we just send it back their way.
A very seamless process.
They'll get an email whenever they get a booking.
And hopefully the front desk sees it.
They usually do.
99 % of the time, everything goes OK.
ah So yeah, on the tech front, it's pretty easy to do.
If hotels don't get a booking,
There is no charge for them.
It's free to list.
So it's very risk free for them to list this inventory.
And it's not really hard to convince them to do this sort of thing because they're just getting extra revenue from it.
So yeah.
What inspired you to start this?
Or what's the founding story here?
So this is a deeply personal mission for me.
I've always had sleep problems in my life dating back to like my 20s and I'm 40 now.
Still have them.
So it was very top of mind for me to help other people who are in a similar boat, struggling with their sleep every day and who don't really have the oh means to rest if
they're on the go.
Also, I experienced this while traveling many times, especially during red eyes and layovers, but
There's really few solutions out there, especially if you're at an airport.
Taking a nap at an airport is such a hard experience.
Even today, the best lounges don't have beds.
So it's really a tough thing to do.
It should be an easy thing to do because people are generally very tired when they're traveling.
And you have a high concentration of people there who just want to rest for a bit.
ah So yeah, that really all inspired me to start this and our mission is to really be everywhere someday so that no one has to go more than 10 or 15 minutes to find some
quality on-demand rest.
So have more questions about how it works, because it's such a fascinating, it's just a fascinating idea.
um You think of hotels and it's like, you get in at four, you stay, you check out at 11 or 10, and it is what it is.
But you're essentially letting people operate in a more flexible way.
So let's say I, use your example, I fly into New York on a red-eye, get in at 7 a.m., I can't check in until the actual hotel at 4 p.m.
Is the ideal flow that I get a room in the same hotel,
from 8 a.m.
to 4 p.m.
so I can sleep and then I move into my actual room or would I but just book the whole stay through Napper because it's more flexible?
how does, yeah, what would I do in that scenario if I'm like I have a hotel but I can't check in for eight hours, what do I do?
Yeah, New York is a great example.
It's our headquarters, and we have 80 hotels there.
So even if you're not staying at your overnight hotel, you might find one on our platform that's like a block away, which wouldn't be too inconvenient.
You could book at the same hotel if they're on our platform and just kind of merge those two.
uh Your other reservation wouldn't be connected snapper, so
It'd be tough to integrate the entire stay together, but if you're just booking it on our platform from eight to two or eight to three, you could just go to the hotel front desk
and say, hey, I have an overnight stay also.
Can I just stay in this room?
ah They might let you.
That makes sense.
like, I feel like some people, you know this, you're building a software, I build software, like users use software in whatever way feels natural to them and they try to
like push the limits within the constraints of the software, right?
So I can imagine a person looking at this for the first time and not hearing from you the way it's supposed to be used, but just saying like, hey, I can book my hotel stay on
Napper and instead of checking it out at four, I can get one at 11 a.m.
I could just use it for four days when it's not supposed to be used like that.
So I'm curious, do you have guardrails baked in?
Like can you only book for up to eight hours at a time?
Or how do you think about people that may want to use it for a reason that's different from what you're intending them to use it for?
Yeah, we've been very cognizant to make the messaging clear on our website and our apps.
If you go to our website, you'll see it says two to 12 hour hotel rates, for up to 75 % off, front and center.
We still get questions in our chat widget and our email address that are asking about how long people can stay and if it's overnight as well.
So there's definitely some gaps there we can fill.
We try to...
put those in the FAQs much as we can.
But yeah, we definitely could make the messaging maybe a little more solid.
I think because it's a new concept, people don't always understand what it is.
assume, yeah, they assume a hotel is an overnight stay and that a short-term stay, know, historically short-term stays have had a bad connotation with
the wrong things happening in hotels.
We're trying to change that narrative as best we can and really educate people about us existing and that this is a thing and that it's a lot cheaper and it's not just for
travel.
It could be like you're at a conference and you just need to get away and take a phone call.
You could be getting tired while driving and just need to get an hour nap in.
There's a lot of use cases for this.
Sleep health is as big as it's ever been.
So we're really just trying to get out there and show people that this is a thing.
Hotels don't sell these rates directly.
So it's really just third parties that do this.
And we're trying to be the one that everyone knows.
How do you, it's kinda like hourly.
Like I say, hey, I need sleep.
You know, I'm feeling tired.
I'm a trucker.
I've been driving all day.
You know, I need three hours.
Is it like an hourly rate or how do you price out these rooms?
And how do you work it out with the hotel?
Yeah, the hotels are the ones who set the times and pricing.
So if they want to give uh one four-hour block, one six-hour block, and maybe a later evening four-hour block, we'll list all of them for them.
The minimum is two hours right now.
It's not that common, but we do see that.
Someone in Houston has booked a two-hour rate over 30 times now.
uh
It's out there, it exists, but the most common block is definitely four or six hours and you're paying for the whole block.
But yeah, eight and 10 and 12 hour rates are there too if you need them.
Typically the average hourly rate is 20 or 30 dollars, so it's not too bad when you price it out like that.
And it's usually a pretty steep discount, regardless of the hotel.
Do people try to use Napper as like a office on the go potentially?
Like, oh, I need a place to work.
I don't have a WeWork membership, so I'm gonna book a Napper.
This might not be what you want, so it's a two-pronged answer.
It's like, do people use that?
And is that something that you condone?
Like if someone books it, uses it within your infrastructure, but works instead, or maybe takes a three-hour nap, but they booked six hours, so they take the next three hours and
they just work while they have that slot.
How do you think about that?
Yeah, we actually encourage that.
We know that you're probably not going to nap for six hours.
That's almost a full night's sleep at that point.
ah So we want people to rest, obviously, but being productive and healthy is part of our mission.
So if you're working in your room, that's, in my opinion, a great use case.
We have people who are using it for that.
They tell us in our booking form they're using it.
for meetings or between meetings.
So there's definitely people who are taking calls and getting work done, and that's great.
Sometimes you just need to get a private room and get some work done on the go.
And it doesn't have to be for an apps, really.
I know it's in our name, but happy to accommodate other good use cases as well.
And I think just last question about like how it specifically works with the space and then I have some others.
It seems like it's like an Airbnb type thing.
It feels almost like something like this is gonna get big, right?
It seems like almost obvious that there's a company in this space that's gonna dominate.
Do you find there's a lot of people going after this or is it because of the bad reputation from the past it's more of a, you know, it's a less crowded space?
Like what's your take on just.
all the players that are going for this.
And is it competitive?
Is it not?
What's your view?
Yeah, it's not a terribly crowded space, really.
There are some competitors in the US, there are some abroad who just focus on Europe or Asia.
But there aren't a ton of players.
So it really is a niche space.
And yeah, I agree.
There will be one or two big ones eventually that everyone knows.
We're trying to be one of them, of course.
But the barrier to entry
for us hasn't been incredibly high uh because there aren't a ton of competitors and there isn't a huge name yet that the world knows.
So, you know, that has helped.
But also we're the only one really focusing on health and wellness and rest.
So we're trying to establish ourselves as that versus, you know, some of our competitors push the romance use case and
are more broad in that regard.
So we're different uh in our messaging, of course.
So.
That makes sense.
How do you currently spread the word?
I think it's such a good idea.
I feel like for a conference, this is gold.
Like, do you want a bunch of podcasts?
Hopefully this helps, of course.
Maybe I'll plug you into my newsletter.
It's such a fun idea.
Yeah, how do get the word out about it?
Or how are you thinking about just making Napper the name that everyone thinks of in this space?
Yeah, we've been very scrappy with our marketing efforts.
I've gone out and put flyers up around New York City, probably a few thousand at this point, around convention centers and high traffic areas like Penn Station, Times Square,
Port Authority.
uh And that has helped.
We get a lot of scans from those flyers.
Last year, we did a really fun stunt where we took a bed around Manhattan with our branded sheet.
And we rolled it onto the Brooklyn Bridge.
We took it to City Hall, Washington Square Park.
And then for the finale, we took it onto a subway train and had people taking naps on the train.
Which, you know, New Yorkers are used to this sort of stuff.
So it didn't really faze anyone.
But yeah, that was, you know, like a fun little viral thing to get out there and get the name out there to people who didn't know we existed.
So we're very
creative and scrappy with that type of stuff.
uh Also Google Ads definitely help, of course.
Our CMO, Matt, is great at that.
So he's really uh helped get our name out there with those.
You said that you're based in New York?
Are you involved at all in the tech scene out there, the startup scene in New York?
um And if so, how is it?
How do you enjoy it?
And if not, then we'll go to the next question.
Now, I actually really enjoy the startup scene out there.
I see a lot of the same founders at events, rooftop mixers, pitch fests, all kinds of tech events.
The scene there is actually very good.
We're not Silicon Valley, we're Silicon Alley, but I think it's growing and more more companies are headquartering there.
And it is a pretty vibrant scene.
I like it.
The founders that I've met there are great, so I really enjoy seeing them again and catching up with them.
But yeah, it's a different vibe than out here in California, where I am right now, actually.
Yeah, you went to Tech Week, right?
SF Tech Week?
Yeah, we hosted an event this week at SF Tech Week.
Our CMO Matt's out here, so he was there with me.
We had a couple of co-hosts that we like to host events with, uh particularly for Tech Week, New York, San Francisco.
uh We're also at Toronto Tech Week this year, so all the Tech Weeks.
But they're always fun to host at.
We meet a bunch of new people, founders and investors, and people from all walks of the travel.
travel ecosphere.
So it's always a lot of fun.
If you have to describe like what is the difference between the SF scene and the New York scene?
I do feel like in the states these are the two biggest scenes.
I think SF is a clear number one.
I feel like New York is a clear number two.
And then maybe number three is LA and I don't know maybe Boston or not.
I think three and beyond is up for grabs but I feel like New York SF number one and two.
What are the differences and similarities if you're open to sharing from your observations?
think New York is more agnostic with the types of companies.
There are so many people in New York, millions and millions of people in this really compact area, the five boroughs.
You can really market anything there.
ah Your target market will probably be there, no matter what you're doing.
So I think you see a more diverse mix of companies out there.
Here it feels a little more fragmented, not that there aren't.
travel companies or hospitality companies here, but hospitality is such a big thing in New York, probably one of the capitals of the world in that area.
And so you'll probably see more hospitality tech in New York.
It just makes more sense for a company to be there.
So yeah, that's my observation so far with the two scenes.
I think there's just a huge array of all types of companies in New York.
Versus here.
like, do you feel like there's, there's, well, how do I ask this in a non leading way?
I feel like a lot of people would say that SF is in its own little bubble for better or for worse in many ways.
But like there's a shared context, a shared culture.
This is where they do things, et cetera.
um Would you say New York also has a bubble?
I'm not talking about bubble like market, like pop, everything crashes.
I just mean kind of a shared way of operating as a scene.
I feel like SF has that.
Yeah, and like does the people, there's like the certain players in different stages and it just kind of operates.
Do you think, does New York have that or is a little more, is a little more, I don't know, a little more random when it comes to who you meet and who does what and who invests in
what, if that makes sense.
I don't know that even makes sense, but feel free.
Good question.
I think it's a little more random.
I I tend to meet a ton of AI companies and founders.
That's the overwhelming theme for me in New York.
ah I almost expect the company to be .ai when I meet them at a networking event because I just meet so many um in a given hour or two.
So that's really the one theme I see out there.
It seems pretty random otherwise.
I often hear like five or 10 new ideas at any given event that I'm at.
So there's a huge amount of founders in New York City.
I don't know what the numbers are compared to here in San Francisco, but you just meet so many of them out there.
Yeah, yeah, totally.
I mean, there are two very strong scenes.
But what's interesting is, you know, if you didn't, if you never went to New York, if you never went to SF, and I'll speak for myself in Phoenix, if you just went to the local
stuff, you would also think there's a ton of founders here, which there are.
uh But you find as you go to these different scenes, you start to realize where the bar is uh for quality of founder and also the quality of investor.
And I think that's the, I always, feel like in every podcast, nearly everyone on this podcast.
we talk about SF, because it's just so top of mind where it's like, it's not perfect.
It's very far from perfect.
But like a lot of great people that are great, uh very smart, very ambitious, very technical live in SF.
So bubble or not, crazy people or not, know, too optimistic or not.
Like, you know, I do think going to SF and experiencing that culture is worth it.
But I also feel like New York is a very close second and maybe you could go to New York.
Go get in the right rooms and experience the same thing because there's so many great companies that have been built out of New York now, too.
Yeah, I agree.
It's a great, I would recommend someone to start in New York if they can, just because there are so many people there.
You know, it's a very easy way to grill a market, whatever you're building.
And it's also a more balanced city.
Like I think SF, like you go through all the billboard, or excuse me, you drive on the 101 or maybe it's the 202, and it's like only tech billboards.
When you go to events, it's just tech, tech, tech, tech, tech, tech, tech.
And of course not everyone in SF is in tech, obviously.
But professionally, if you're in tech, you're probably gonna find yourself surrounded by tech people.
But you mentioned this point, in New York, there is a lot of different personas that come to that city.
It's not just tech, tech has to actually be probably a minority, right?
Compared to finance people or maybe even entertainment or hospitality.
So you get a little more diversity of interest and like profession versus the Bay Area.
Yeah, or real estate, fashion.
I mean, there's so many industries that are huge there.
So I think it's definitely uh more so than here where you see a lot of tech.
Like there's obviously a lot of tech companies in New York, but it's not as dominant as the San Francisco scene.
100%, 100%.
Well, I guess, know, wrapping up here, what is kind of, with Napper, like, what does the next phase look like?
You know, you've been operating, maybe if you want to share how it's going, you know, don't share anything you don't want out publicly, but I know it's going well.
Like, it's going well, how do you think about the next couple years of growth?
What are your goals for the company?
And then we'll wrap soon after that.
Yeah, it's going pretty well now.
Revenues are increasing, so that's great.
We just had a month of August where we had Forex and then September was 50 % more than August was.
So really exciting times.
In the near future, we're getting 6,000 more hotels.
So we'll have 7,000 plus on our platform.
That's one of our goals, to get as many hotels as we can.
ah Beyond that, we
are close to introducing our consumer hosting platform where people can host their apartments and homes on an hourly basis.
Probably a lot of Airbnb hosts who have an open day every now and then.
uh And then longer term, we want to have our own brick and mortar stores in airports and maybe downtown in big cities so that you can just take a nap on the go right after you get
off a flight, right before you get on a flight or wherever you are.
So those are the three phases of our growth and that'll help us get to oh our vision and our mission of being everywhere.
We really want to be on every street corner if possible.
yeah.
If someone wanted to learn more or they wanted to try it uh or connect on social, where can people find you?
What's your website?
What are your socials?
Where can people find you online?
So our website is napper.io, N-A-P-P-R.io.
uh You could find us on both app stores, same spelling, N-A-P-P-R.
We're on all the socials, Instagram, TikTok, Facebook, X.
Our handle is napperapp, so just our name plus A-P-P.
And yeah, we're on LinkedIn, of course.
So you could find us at any of those.
All right, well, if you are traveling or you're in healthcare, you need some sleep and you don't wanna spend a whole night at a hotel, you know where to go if you're listening.
So Jared, thank you so much for coming on the pod.
uh I'm looking forward to seeing you in person in a couple of days.
You're coming out to the Matt Capital house in Phoenix, which should be great.
And yeah, man, thanks for coming on.
Thanks so much, I really appreciate it.