WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:06.640 Music. 00:00:06.886 --> 00:00:14.313 Podcast. I'm Pastor Luke. And I am Pastor Cam. And this is the Uncut Podcast, where we have 00:00:14.358 --> 00:00:22.884 uncut and honest conversations about faith, life, and ministry. This week, we get to share some, 00:00:23.684 --> 00:00:31.604 kind of, I don't know, a mile marker for the podcast, kind of exciting. Over the course of 00:00:31.604 --> 00:00:41.392 Of the last two episodes, we've broken 2,000 downloads or listens across all the platforms. 00:00:41.604 --> 00:00:48.244 Awesome. That was kind of cool to find out, realize that we'd had that many people listen. 00:00:48.244 --> 00:00:50.889 Yeah, right. That's a lot of listens. So thank you. 00:00:51.244 --> 00:01:00.044 Thank you for downloading, watching, listening, commenting, rating, sharing, subscribing, all that. Yeah. 00:01:00.675 --> 00:01:04.844 Faithful group of you that listen fairly regularly and when you get the chance, 00:01:04.844 --> 00:01:09.524 and whether you're just popping in every week or when you get the chance to, 00:01:09.713 --> 00:01:11.288 we appreciate you taking the time to kind of. 00:01:12.724 --> 00:01:16.404 Hopefully you feel like you're joining in on a bit of a conversation here. 00:01:16.404 --> 00:01:22.055 We hope it feels like you're just listening to some friends kind of talk some things back and forth. 00:01:22.364 --> 00:01:26.244 That's what we want, yeah. And continue to want you to be able to engage 00:01:26.244 --> 00:01:29.914 with topics that are important and pertinent in your life, 00:01:30.564 --> 00:01:35.564 you know, through our text line, 716-201-0507. 00:01:36.124 --> 00:01:41.324 Very good. We got it memorized. Memorized, finally. I've been gone here for 10 days, too, 00:01:41.324 --> 00:01:43.884 and I don't even have my sticky note in front of me, so. 00:01:45.124 --> 00:01:53.844 But you can text us questions to that line any time, or if you have actual access to us, 00:01:53.844 --> 00:01:59.164 Then you just always just ask us or text us on our actual numbers. 00:02:00.324 --> 00:02:08.084 But yeah. So you went on a little vacation, that episode, we talked about Sabbath and vacation. Right. 00:02:08.084 --> 00:02:13.804 And 10 days and a part of the first part of that, those 10 days was camping with my 00:02:13.998 --> 00:02:17.500 family and our family campground in Randolph. 00:02:17.752 --> 00:02:23.044 And, uh, we had, uh, we fought the rain a little bit last week was quite a rainy 00:02:23.044 --> 00:02:25.624 week, but it ended up being okay. 00:02:25.827 --> 00:02:32.516 And I don't really get cell phone reception down there. So it was nice to be able to unplug and get away for a little bit. 00:02:32.584 --> 00:02:38.864 And, um, and then, um, back, um, in the weekend and still had, you know, five 00:02:38.864 --> 00:02:42.784 or six days that I had planned to take off just at home. 00:02:42.850 --> 00:02:45.024 So it was nice. 00:02:45.137 --> 00:02:45.425 Yeah. 00:02:45.904 --> 00:02:51.304 Yeah. That's cool. Well, I mean, it's funny that you say like no cell phone reception and being 00:02:51.304 --> 00:02:57.864 able to unplug because that's kind of the topic at least I thought we might kick around today is 00:02:57.864 --> 00:03:02.511 sort of I don't know exactly where it's going to land but kind of talking about like, 00:03:03.592 --> 00:03:08.075 the impact of technology and social media and thoughtfulness around that, you know, 00:03:09.227 --> 00:03:14.562 with just even as what it means to be human and to live a balanced life, 00:03:14.845 --> 00:03:18.319 but then also just like how that impacts us spiritually and stuff you. 00:03:21.056 --> 00:03:27.602 Couple weeks ago now, three, four weeks, maybe it was almost a month ago, I guess you gave a sermon, 00:03:28.357 --> 00:03:32.602 on starting in Mark, and your big idea was like, 00:03:33.389 --> 00:03:40.132 the retreating and spending time with the Lord, seeing Jesus' pattern in the gospel, 00:03:40.362 --> 00:03:45.562 getting solitude and time away, and at least in your application of that sermon, 00:03:45.562 --> 00:03:50.791 you spent a significant amount of time lamenting the negative impact of having a buzzing, 00:03:52.062 --> 00:03:56.522 tab of glass next to you, and that's impact. 00:03:56.522 --> 00:04:05.682 And then I've, over the last two weeks or so, I've been reading a book that it's been fairly easy to read, 00:04:06.682 --> 00:04:10.488 fairly well-written and researched book called Stolen Focus. 00:04:11.802 --> 00:04:18.802 Kind of, it's a little bit more broad than just technology. It's just kind of examining all the reasons 00:04:18.802 --> 00:04:25.602 why perhaps we're having more difficult time paying attention and giving our focus to things. 00:04:25.602 --> 00:04:33.668 But he spends a significant amount of time talking about the impact of technology, social media, phones, like. 00:04:34.776 --> 00:04:38.746 And it's fairly well researched. I don't agree with all of his conclusions. 00:04:38.746 --> 00:04:42.833 I think he's a little bit biased in some regards, but it's a book I would recommend 00:04:43.148 --> 00:04:45.146 just pretty much about anybody to read. 00:04:45.146 --> 00:04:51.826 I think it's a- Stolen focus. Stolen focus by, I believe, Johan Hari. 00:04:51.906 --> 00:04:57.578 I believe I'm saying his first name correctly, but so it's a good book, 00:04:57.746 --> 00:05:02.946 but that's all been stirring all this in my mind. So I thought today would be a cool day, 00:05:03.781 --> 00:05:04.699 to talk about some of that. 00:05:04.866 --> 00:05:11.786 Yeah, I think we should do it. It feels like a lifetime ago that I preach that sermon. 00:05:11.786 --> 00:05:23.208 But I do, you know, the main point, which you already kind of mentioned, it was just that Jesus 00:05:23.426 --> 00:05:30.311 was willing to lay aside what the world thought, 00:05:30.946 --> 00:05:34.666 his priority should be and what was important to the world, 00:05:35.626 --> 00:05:41.672 so that he could spend time in solitude with his Heavenly Father. 00:05:41.746 --> 00:05:50.647 And how even in our own lives where we maybe seek solitude with the Father, 00:05:50.786 --> 00:05:55.786 we do so with probably what is, I don't know, 00:05:56.066 --> 00:06:02.359 maybe the television, maybe you could say that the TV, the television is the most. 00:06:03.606 --> 00:06:10.668 Has like in our generation or historically been the most distracting technological device. 00:06:12.378 --> 00:06:18.158 But you can't carry that with you outside. Right, I think that that, you know. 00:06:19.256 --> 00:06:24.090 Now in the modern-day world 2023. I don't think that there's any doubt that. 00:06:25.766 --> 00:06:33.804 The most pervasive technological Distraction not even technological distraction technological device. Yes that. 00:06:35.397 --> 00:06:42.266 The world knows is the cell phone right or the smartphone Yeah, like if you were to look look through time like as far as like, 00:06:43.166 --> 00:06:51.736 media communication and technology intersection And there's like the printing press, maybe radio, 00:06:51.926 --> 00:06:54.014 television, smartphone. 00:06:54.126 --> 00:07:02.359 Yeah, or the internet. Or the internet and then smartphone. Like, you know, like those are like, 00:07:02.926 --> 00:07:08.246 like historians will always be talking about these things and the impact like, you know, 00:07:08.246 --> 00:07:13.549 our grandkids will be reading textbooks or history textbooks talking about, 00:07:14.170 --> 00:07:19.366 when the development of the iPhone was released and like how it impacted society and all that stuff. 00:07:19.366 --> 00:07:24.286 Like, it will be a thing, like to us, it's just so immediate that we're just like, 00:07:24.286 --> 00:07:30.006 oh, it's just kind of normal. But like, it has been so earth shattering to the way that we live life. 00:07:30.239 --> 00:07:34.166 Like it will be in the history books in 100 plus years. 00:07:34.848 --> 00:07:34.317 Yep. 00:07:35.006 --> 00:07:39.846 Yeah. early in high school. 00:07:39.421 --> 00:07:47.431 Uh, having classes called computer lab. Oh yeah. Learning the type on the computer. 00:07:47.471 --> 00:07:52.339 Yes. Or just learning how to navigate a computer and use its programs and being. 00:07:57.311 --> 00:08:04.502 How to use word. Right. Just being so overwhelmed with, I remember my first, 00:08:05.339 --> 00:08:10.002 I remember the first time that I used the intranet, independently used the intranet. 00:08:11.131 --> 00:08:16.565 I had no idea how to do it, but I had to, it was like an eighth grade, 00:08:17.611 --> 00:08:20.796 eighth or ninth grade, and I had to write a report. 00:08:23.171 --> 00:08:29.969 For history on some aspect of slavery, and I didn't know how, 00:08:30.571 --> 00:08:34.137 and one of the research tools we could use was this thing called the internet. 00:08:36.371 --> 00:08:41.351 So I went to the library and I sat down at the computer and I opened the internet. Yeah. 00:08:42.571 --> 00:08:46.209 And I was like, what do I do now? 00:08:47.531 --> 00:08:54.212 And so I typed in www.slaves.com. What did that bring up for you? 00:08:54.331 --> 00:08:56.731 It was not what I thought it was gonna be. 00:08:58.371 --> 00:09:06.752 That was my first introduction to the internet. I was trying to do a very innocent report on slavery. 00:09:07.040 --> 00:09:20.319 I got an education that day, not in slavery, however, I said all that to say my first experiences 00:09:20.391 --> 00:09:29.131 with things like the internet and computers, which I thought was so powerful and like expansive. 00:09:29.131 --> 00:09:39.771 Little device here blows those things out of the water for accessibility, power, like utility, 00:09:39.771 --> 00:09:46.071 And so just like that the curve. 00:09:47.785 --> 00:09:52.915 Oh, the exponential curve. Yes. Exactly. Like if you, if you go from like, 00:09:54.428 --> 00:09:59.622 no printing press to printing press or like printing press to digital media, right. That 00:09:59.955 --> 00:10:07.553 curve is really wide, right? Cause like printing press was, I don't remember the date was back in 00:10:07.887 --> 00:10:13.555 what? 1500s, 1500s, 1500s, I think with like the reformation and all of that. And then it took us 00:10:13.555 --> 00:10:19.155 Until when till we got to like digital distribution of media. 00:10:20.031 --> 00:10:27.635 I mean, I guess it depends like large scale, I would say in the next, in the last few decades, like, you know, maybe in the last 00:10:27.635 --> 00:10:34.435 25 years, quarter of a century, but then if you talk about the change, uh, so that's a degree of change, like the printing 00:10:34.435 --> 00:10:41.875 press advanced, obviously, and it got better and better and we got to mass production books, but then, but that was a fairly 00:10:41.875 --> 00:10:48.577 slow level change. And then you get to digital media and how much digital media has changed 00:10:48.675 --> 00:10:56.328 since its advent to now. We've had more change since the, the internet has changed more than, 00:10:57.155 --> 00:11:02.915 the printing press. Like the internet has changed more in the last three decades than the printing 00:11:02.915 --> 00:11:10.035 press did in several centuries. Yes. 500, 500 years. Yes, for sure. You know, I remember my first cell phone. 00:11:10.675 --> 00:11:17.595 Well, I remember my, my first personal cell phone, but I remember the first time I encountered like a mobile phone. 00:11:17.635 --> 00:11:18.978 I remember my mom's brick. 00:11:19.203 --> 00:11:20.435 My mom had a bag phone. 00:11:20.697 --> 00:11:24.155 Oh, do you, you're familiar with bag phones? I've heard of them. 00:11:24.155 --> 00:11:26.098 I don't think I ever saw one as a kid. 00:11:26.170 --> 00:11:36.577 It had a, it was had a cord, you know, and the bag was like a little suitcase and then it had a cord on it with an antenna that, 00:11:37.075 --> 00:11:41.235 that you stuck out your window and it was a magnet, it had a magnet on it and you stuck it 00:11:41.235 --> 00:11:42.023 to the top of your car. 00:11:42.428 --> 00:11:43.770 Ha ha ha ha ha! 00:11:44.931 --> 00:11:54.901 And you and that's like some Vietnam War era like communication seriously Seriously, and I always wanted to like make a phone call on it 00:11:54.901 --> 00:12:01.621 And my mom was like we absolutely cannot in unless it's a dire emergency because it's so expensive to make a call. 00:12:03.021 --> 00:12:12.661 My grandpa my grandpa bought my mom one. She's a single mom. Okay, right He wanted her to have you know that but and then I got my first self 00:12:12.661 --> 00:12:16.403 I mean just think about the amount of time. I'm not that old, right? 00:12:17.726 --> 00:12:22.948 So think think about the the curve in technological advancement even in the cell phone. I, 00:12:24.127 --> 00:12:29.177 Got my first personal cell phone when I was a sophomore in college. Yep, 00:12:30.320 --> 00:12:35.021 So that would have been 2002 yeah, I think I got mine line late high school, 00:12:35.776 --> 00:12:40.741 No, I'm sorry. I got my freshman year of college that have been 2001. Okay, 2000 2001. Yeah 00:12:41.168 --> 00:12:55.741 But at that point, I didn't know how to enter phone numbers into the, like the phone book on the phone, you know, how you press like one, three times to get to see, right? 00:12:55.741 --> 00:12:57.181 So you got to go, like, go through the numbers. 00:12:57.561 --> 00:13:05.701 So everyone's, I couldn't even store anyone's number under their name because I didn't know how to write their name on the number pad. 00:13:06.140 --> 00:13:13.630 Right. And so, and now I just say, you know, hey Siri, find me the number for... 00:13:14.594 --> 00:13:19.821 Oh, Siri's about to do it. And Siri's doing it, you know? And so. 00:13:21.084 --> 00:13:31.774 That was 20 years ago. Yeah Well, I mean like just the small fact like your very first story and you said going on and turning on the internet, 00:13:32.643 --> 00:13:40.907 We don't turn the internet on anymore. It's always on it's alive It's alive and that's that's a distinction like if you're listening to this and you're you know, 00:13:42.015 --> 00:13:49.374 So young as to not remember when dial-up was a thing like before there was broadband and now it's just internet 00:13:49.621 --> 00:13:56.334 It's just all remember when there was no internet right, but I remember you know you had to you had to click AOL or, 00:13:56.940 --> 00:14:02.234 Netgear or whatever it was that you're in that scape or whatever you were using to access the internet, 00:14:02.819 --> 00:14:09.084 It was a specific applicant You didn't just launch a browser on your computer like you do now you click on Google Chrome or something or Safari, 00:14:09.679 --> 00:14:11.308 You had to click on, 00:14:11.902 --> 00:14:19.214 The the browser was also the thing that turned the internet on and could shut off your family's phone line, 00:14:20.054 --> 00:14:27.188 and and so Accessing the internet was kind of like an intentional choice. It was a thing that was on and off. 00:14:28.511 --> 00:14:34.723 Versus now our phones both right now are communicating with the internet updating our, 00:14:35.659 --> 00:14:41.914 You know updating our emails updating notifications tracking our locations, getting other people's locations 00:14:41.914 --> 00:14:46.954 of their phones, like all of that's happening just with the phones just sitting on the counter 00:14:46.954 --> 00:14:48.631 and us not even touching it. 00:14:48.874 --> 00:14:53.015 That's a very different way of living than pre-internet. 00:14:55.394 --> 00:15:04.394 Or even just pre-smartphone living. Which is back to the initial point of like the message, 00:15:05.634 --> 00:15:13.194 that I preached in the first chapter of Mark and what I see as the, 00:15:13.194 --> 00:15:18.834 I see as like the, maybe complexity's maybe not the right word, but. 00:15:23.083 --> 00:15:32.253 My penchant to avoid or to not counsel or to lead people towards doing personal devotions 00:15:32.253 --> 00:15:37.253 or getting time with the Lord via the phone. 00:15:38.373 --> 00:15:43.194 Or even having the phone in the same room. 00:15:44.301 --> 00:16:00.293 Because it is rare, the person who is able to ignore is able to ignore the, the, um, notifications, the pull towards scrolling, we shouldn't be 00:16:00.293 --> 00:16:09.893 surprised because there are extraordinarily smart and talented people who have even customized 00:16:09.893 --> 00:16:18.915 notification alert sounds to turn something on in the brain that says, I must do it. 00:16:19.253 --> 00:16:25.307 It. Yep. Right. It, it, it, like the amount of social engineering that has gone into like 00:16:25.533 --> 00:16:29.997 part of the book I'm reading talks about some of that stuff and I'm like, wow, like that, 00:16:31.013 --> 00:16:41.693 is a lot. Right. Which is why it reminds me, I'm not, I'm not too much into like documentary 00:16:41.693 --> 00:16:48.873 hit pieces like you, like we talked about, we talked about, but the documentary, the 00:16:48.873 --> 00:16:52.533 social experiment. 00:16:52.533 --> 00:16:55.893 Is that the social experiment or the social dilemma? The social dilemma. 00:16:55.893 --> 00:16:59.659 I'm sorry. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. 00:17:02.414 --> 00:17:13.464 It was I felt victimized by my Yeah, I felt I felt victimized by like they're like the, 00:17:14.513 --> 00:17:21.364 Social engineering. Yes of those things to the point where like I feel I thought this was like, 00:17:22.264 --> 00:17:27.224 I was just liking it because I was liking it. Yeah, but no there 00:17:27.278 --> 00:17:35.384 It I almost felt like they were forcing me to like it by the way They were designing and I know like I'm not I'm not rescuing myself from personal responsibility, 00:17:36.326 --> 00:17:40.665 But I think it was just very telling. Yeah. No, like if you haven't seen the social dilemma on Netflix 00:17:40.964 --> 00:17:48.317 It is worth a watch. I think it's got some I think it for all of its Production value. I think it, 00:17:49.224 --> 00:17:56.104 Oversimplifies a couple things sure it has some biases some of the same biases that I think are prevalent in the book that I'm reading 00:17:56.104 --> 00:18:01.804 Because the book I'm book I'm reading relies heavily upon the interviews of the people who made that documentary. 00:18:03.269 --> 00:18:14.964 But it's worth watching. It's worth considering that like One of the interesting studies that like they found is they had like people taking IQ tests some people taking them, 00:18:15.494 --> 00:18:19.735 with a phone next to them that would like get occasional notifications and, 00:18:20.404 --> 00:18:27.364 other people with no distractions and And there was a measurable score of like, 00:18:27.364 --> 00:18:34.273 I think something between like 10 to 15 difference in their IQ scores between being distracted 00:18:34.498 --> 00:18:35.930 versus non-distracted. 00:18:36.092 --> 00:18:40.924 And to put that in perspective, that's a higher difference than if they were stoned 00:18:40.924 --> 00:18:43.438 versus not stoned taking an IQ test. 00:18:43.564 --> 00:18:52.604 So you would be better off taking an IQ test high on like marijuana, then you are with taking it 00:18:52.604 --> 00:18:55.582 with your phone, giving you active notifications next to you. 00:18:55.724 --> 00:18:56.635 That's crazy. 00:18:56.804 --> 00:19:01.622 Yeah, just like, what? Like, the amount of like... 00:19:02.864 --> 00:19:10.291 Attention shifting that that causes just like cause because every time Like people love to kind of argue this point 00:19:10.514 --> 00:19:16.116 I know that you're like you've had some teacher at some point tell you you guys can't multitask and everyone's like, yeah 00:19:16.314 --> 00:19:19.285 Yeah, we can't multitask. I can multitask right you, 00:19:20.437 --> 00:19:27.814 What we're really just doing is quick page flipping in our minds. We can change topics so fast it almost feels 00:19:27.814 --> 00:19:32.334 simultaneous, but it's not really what we're doing is we're expending brain 00:19:32.334 --> 00:19:35.174 power, uh, pulling up. 00:19:35.174 --> 00:19:38.324 What was the last thing I was thinking about this particular topic? 00:19:38.954 --> 00:19:43.094 And then, okay, where am I going to go with that now? Okay. Now back over to this thing. 00:19:43.519 --> 00:19:46.414 Well, all the while, while we've changed topics, we're still holding what was 00:19:46.414 --> 00:19:48.344 just over here in our working memory. 00:19:49.163 --> 00:19:55.474 And our, like our functioning brain power, like diminishes over the day. 00:19:55.762 --> 00:20:04.534 Like, people have talked about how interesting study over like the severity of sentences 00:20:04.534 --> 00:20:08.131 is that judges levy out on court cases 00:20:08.314 --> 00:20:10.021 increases with the lateness in the day. 00:20:11.345 --> 00:20:17.515 Um, so like they found a correlation between end of the day court cases tend to get more severe, 00:20:18.006 --> 00:20:22.075 Punishments versus like first thing in the morning the judge is more likely to be lenient, 00:20:22.769 --> 00:20:25.375 brain power willpower like those decision-making, 00:20:26.171 --> 00:20:31.755 Elements of our thing are a finite resource And over the course of the day if we're constantly, 00:20:32.797 --> 00:20:39.115 Switching from one thing to the other we're losing focus brain power concentration. We're becoming more foggy, 00:20:39.594 --> 00:20:43.420 We're expending what is a limited resource we have over the course of a day. 00:20:44.195 --> 00:20:54.735 So just thinking about that alone and what you said, how does that impact me sitting 00:20:54.735 --> 00:21:01.555 down to read the Bible and I'm opening up, say, the Bible app, a great app that you probably 00:21:01.555 --> 00:21:02.555 should have on your phone. 00:21:02.555 --> 00:21:06.267 If there's an app that you should have on your phone, I think you should have that one. 00:21:06.555 --> 00:21:11.012 But if you're doing your devotions on it and you're getting updates on the sports game 00:21:11.129 --> 00:21:21.760 or your news or you're getting tweets, Instagram posts, messages, it has its own... 00:21:23.595 --> 00:21:28.548 While you have access to just about any Bible translation you could ever want for free, 00:21:29.075 --> 00:21:33.135 you also have all these distractions that are vying for your attention. 00:21:33.135 --> 00:21:37.307 Even if it is just a bubble that pops at the top of your screen and you swipe it back up, 00:21:37.695 --> 00:21:40.503 you're still losing some attention and some focus. 00:21:40.989 --> 00:21:48.605 Right, right. Yeah, I, you know, we talk a lot about and in fact, I asked you a question maybe a couple 00:21:48.895 --> 00:21:53.628 hours ago, you know, like, Hey, are you in a rhythm right now? 00:21:54.574 --> 00:22:02.335 Or can we take a break and do the podcast or whatever? Because there is this sense of like, when you I know it's true for me that when I get 00:22:02.335 --> 00:22:09.295 into a task, it's easier for me to accomplish the task if I don't pause it. 00:22:11.192 --> 00:22:19.842 I mean, obviously, yeah, but because to re reboot the creative process or the just intellectual 00:22:19.842 --> 00:22:28.882 process of getting back into it, it takes focus and time and energy, which is why I think most 00:22:28.882 --> 00:22:36.402 people will say, or, or at least for me, I think this is probably fairly common is that when you 00:22:36.402 --> 00:22:45.202 have an intellectual task to do that the most difficult thing in the task is usually starting 00:22:45.418 --> 00:22:45.806 it. 00:22:46.472 --> 00:22:53.562 And I think I've said this before, that when I write sermons, the most difficult part of 00:22:53.562 --> 00:22:58.841 writing a sermon for me is the first two or three sentences. 00:22:59.842 --> 00:23:05.016 If I can get the first two or three, if I can figure out how I'm going to open, then 00:23:05.442 --> 00:23:11.813 And the rest of it, it just feels like it's there, you know, almost like the Holy Spirit is. 00:23:12.282 --> 00:23:17.842 Well, it's like God has something to do with it, too, but yeah. 00:23:17.842 --> 00:23:26.415 And I think it's the way in which we interact with our phones as well. 00:23:27.801 --> 00:23:29.662 Yeah. Yeah, it's a. 00:23:31.807 --> 00:23:40.161 Well, like I don't know there was like I can't remember this statistic but it was something along the lines of ridiculous like workers, 00:23:40.872 --> 00:23:46.342 Like people who do work rarely get an unemployed or up did hour of work done a day 00:23:46.769 --> 00:23:52.881 Like you don't go like I'm sure it was even less than that. I just can't remember the exact right, you know, we 00:23:53.282 --> 00:24:00.038 Do you have there's such intentionality you have to take if you actually want to avoid, 00:24:00.650 --> 00:24:02.919 being interrupted by, 00:24:03.612 --> 00:24:06.022 You see and that's the thing that that's what that's so difficult. 00:24:06.022 --> 00:24:11.534 It's like, okay, I can't get in an uninterrupted hour of work a day. 00:24:11.802 --> 00:24:15.792 So I'm going to go somewhere by myself. 00:24:16.742 --> 00:24:20.158 And just hammer down and focus. 00:24:23.696 --> 00:24:22.262 You, 00:24:23.696 --> 00:24:26.918 Did you take it with you? I'm not by myself. All right, because you've brought your phone. 00:24:26.918 --> 00:24:28.990 Because I've brought my phone, right? 00:24:29.438 --> 00:24:33.878 Which ends up being the most distracting thing I have. 00:24:34.798 --> 00:24:46.718 And so whereas before we've been able to get away in solitude and silence, now when we 00:24:46.718 --> 00:24:51.318 lead people towards or counsel people towards or encourage them or admonish them or exhort 00:24:51.318 --> 00:24:59.878 them towards getting away with the Lord. I think I said in my sermon, I'm okay with you taking your 00:24:59.878 --> 00:25:09.958 Bible. Don't take anything else. Don't take your phone. Just because of the penchant for 00:25:09.958 --> 00:25:12.538 for distraction. 00:25:12.538 --> 00:25:16.008 I even had times where, you know, I. 00:25:18.158 --> 00:25:27.486 Okay, pastoral dashboard confessions here. I had in my own personal goals for the year to take a quarterly. 00:25:28.858 --> 00:25:34.724 I was actually just thinking about this. Yeah, a quarterly prayer retreat. 00:25:36.298 --> 00:25:40.558 And I haven't taken any of those yet. here we are in the second quarter. 00:25:42.298 --> 00:25:45.131 I guess I should do that. We both should do that. 00:25:46.578 --> 00:25:51.972 And I was telling my wife about it and she was like, 00:25:52.658 --> 00:25:57.410 or I was like, I'm gonna like leave, I'm gonna essentially take my notebook and my Bible, 00:25:58.578 --> 00:26:01.308 my toothbrush, change of clothes, you know? 00:26:01.618 --> 00:26:04.441 And well, why wouldn't you take your phone? 00:26:05.611 --> 00:26:13.178 Like, well, cause it's distracting. It's a, you know, it was a temptation to work or to scroll or to do whatever. 00:26:14.271 --> 00:26:20.798 And even despite what for me is the most righteous of reasons, there was like, 00:26:21.365 --> 00:26:24.498 we had this conversation about like a, well, what if you get in trouble or what 00:26:24.498 --> 00:26:28.898 if you get hurt or what, if you need something or what if, what if, what if, 00:26:28.978 --> 00:26:30.691 what if we both played the game? 00:26:31.582 --> 00:26:35.618 It wasn't just her saying, no, like take your phone. It was like, well, yeah. 00:26:35.618 --> 00:26:42.178 How does it get a hold of you exactly how could I possibly survive right? How could you possibly survive without your phone? 00:26:42.547 --> 00:26:48.958 I don't know. Everybody must have just died in fields all by themselves lost because they couldn't they couldn't have Google Maps. 00:26:53.341 --> 00:27:01.458 You know Like I need a trip tick or something like that from triple-a You know quest to get anywhere, 00:27:02.280 --> 00:27:07.186 But I don't know where I was going with that, other than to say... 00:27:08.285 --> 00:27:15.748 Like you will survive you will well it brings up a really interesting dynamic that I've reflected about the phone is like it's. 00:27:17.548 --> 00:27:19.495 Like what do you use most? 00:27:19.495 --> 00:27:24.129 There's usually like there's usually probably a gazillion apps on anybody's given phone smartphone, 00:27:25.011 --> 00:27:28.027 You probably only use like five of them, right? 00:27:29.071 --> 00:27:36.535 Like if that like you use you whatever you listen to music on on Google Maps, probably, unless you're insane 00:27:36.535 --> 00:27:38.694 and you want to use Apple Maps for some reason. 00:27:40.415 --> 00:27:47.174 Whatever social media you prefer, your messages and maybe your phone and your email function. 00:27:47.335 --> 00:27:48.264 And then that's pretty much it. 00:27:49.353 --> 00:27:55.421 Like, it's pretty rare, like, I shouldn't say rare. There are other apps, you might have games, superfluous. 00:27:55.495 --> 00:27:59.985 But like, out of ones that you use, like, the most, right? 00:28:00.095 --> 00:28:04.774 Can kind of fit into probably five or seven in that kind of category. 00:28:04.895 --> 00:28:07.259 And you can figure that out by going to your screen time. 00:28:07.402 --> 00:28:12.575 Yeah, on your iPhones, they have a screen time built-in function. You can look and see how much. 00:28:14.091 --> 00:28:18.975 That's a sobering. I get a notification every Sunday morning of how much. Me too. 00:28:19.855 --> 00:28:22.735 What my screen time usage was for the week. At church. 00:28:23.517 --> 00:28:27.535 Yeah. And I'll look at it and I'll say like, your screen time usage was up 25%. 00:28:27.535 --> 00:28:31.135 And I was like think back on the week. I'm like how stressed was I very stressed? 00:28:31.529 --> 00:28:35.526 Yep, that aligns like that feels right like my percentage was up that much because I was that maybe, 00:28:36.955 --> 00:28:41.611 Distracted or wanted to be that distracted right we could talk about how we use our phones to escape things 00:28:41.935 --> 00:28:47.670 I usually know how Stressed out or distracted I've been by whether or not I have to plug my phone in before I go to bed. Oh. 00:28:50.658 --> 00:28:54.015 You know whether or not I need to recharge the battery before I go to bed, right? 00:28:54.367 --> 00:28:59.895 Mm-hmm. Yeah. Well, I think but back to this one point though is that I think 00:28:59.895 --> 00:29:03.075 I think it's not so much like you were saying, 00:29:03.406 --> 00:29:08.789 like our iPhones are more powerful than the computers that put men on the moon. 00:29:11.337 --> 00:29:20.227 How much of that computing power do we actually use? Like, or need or need need? Yeah. But the thing is, 00:29:20.227 --> 00:29:25.893 is we don't want to say no to the potential inside of our life. 00:29:26.147 --> 00:29:30.962 So you're saying that's we don't want to, or that's the existential question within us. 00:29:31.214 --> 00:29:33.787 That's a little bit like when we're asking that question of like, 00:29:34.787 --> 00:29:39.667 what is the likelihood of even if I'm gone and I go for a walk for an hour, 00:29:39.667 --> 00:29:46.887 hour, right? You're going to go for a walk, going to be gone for an hour. Why would you 00:29:46.887 --> 00:29:48.786 not leave your phone at home? 00:29:50.145 --> 00:29:57.687 In case someone needs to text me. Someone needs to text me or call me, right? The chances are is that actually, like as 00:29:57.687 --> 00:30:00.147 important as I think you are Cameron, you're probably not that important. 00:30:01.092 --> 00:30:01.695 Definitely not. 00:30:02.676 --> 00:30:08.487 Right? Right. And that's true for me, for everybody, but we all have this like anxiety when it talks 00:30:08.744 --> 00:30:13.687 about even just leaving our phone in the house and going outside for a limited 00:30:13.687 --> 00:30:18.527 amount of time say like a hour or half hour and I think part of it is is the 00:30:18.827 --> 00:30:24.647 potential that we're saying no to like what if I decide I want to look Google, 00:30:25.317 --> 00:30:32.771 something right like it we're saying no to all the potential power and possibilities that it has but when in reality on an average day we're only, 00:30:33.447 --> 00:30:37.487 using it to you know how much of that are we using to just look at like funny 00:30:37.487 --> 00:30:44.127 dog videos on Instagram. I'm calling myself out right there. But, um, like we're only using... 00:30:44.687 --> 00:30:54.386 Yep. Does that, does that book talk at all about the, like, and I'm not talking about like, uh, 00:30:54.809 --> 00:31:00.287 the funny ha ha, but like the actual addiction to... 00:31:00.287 --> 00:31:05.887 No, I was kind of surprised he didn't talk about, like, he doesn't get into any of the 00:31:05.887 --> 00:31:10.446 neuroscience, where he doesn't get into like the... 00:31:11.913 --> 00:31:18.070 Like the what's it called the gamblers ratio of like there's a certain, 00:31:18.883 --> 00:31:29.043 so like if you're Casinos right have figured out and the reason gambling is addictive is because there's a certain frequency at which you succeed, 00:31:30.034 --> 00:31:35.203 Uh that they've like scientifically named like there's a ratio of how many times you can lose 00:31:35.203 --> 00:31:41.723 versus win that will keep you sitting at the table or keep you pulling the lever. 00:31:41.723 --> 00:31:48.943 So if you've ever wondered or thought or had the illusion that perhaps that particularly the slot machines 00:31:49.119 --> 00:31:55.023 at a casino are not rigged, they are a hundred percent rigged to pay out a certain amount of times. 00:31:55.023 --> 00:31:59.805 And the reason for that is like to keep you sitting there. 00:32:00.523 --> 00:32:05.503 And so similarly, like, And that's all playing on like our neurochemistry, 00:32:05.503 --> 00:32:07.394 which I've looked at and stuff. 00:32:09.043 --> 00:32:16.183 And what it does is it keeps you, so this will be, so people, 00:32:16.183 --> 00:32:20.204 like a lot of times when you hear people talk about this, they're like, oh, like the dopamine 00:32:20.321 --> 00:32:22.095 just keeps you hooked on your phone. 00:32:22.572 --> 00:32:29.224 And that's true, but sometimes we don't actually understand what the dopamine is or what the function of dopamine is. 00:32:29.657 --> 00:32:32.744 Dopamine is the desire chemical in our brain. 00:32:33.212 --> 00:32:39.586 It's the thing that encourage us to pursue or to crave the thing that will get us the reward. 00:32:40.108 --> 00:32:47.193 So when I find a funny video or something interesting or something novel or new on Instagram, 00:32:47.553 --> 00:32:50.002 I'm not getting more dopamine, I'm getting more serotonin. 00:32:50.650 --> 00:32:57.221 But that like reward, that serotonin endorphin reward tells my system to give me more dopamine, 00:32:57.807 --> 00:32:59.292 so that I would keep doing that behavior. 00:32:59.623 --> 00:33:03.063 So dopamine is the seeking hormone. It's the seeking hormone. 00:33:03.063 --> 00:33:04.503 Serotonin is the reward. 00:33:04.503 --> 00:33:11.769 Is the reward. And so what you do is you get stuck, you can, particularly, like, this has happened, 00:33:12.237 --> 00:33:17.279 like, I had to kind of work myself out of a really bad funk after I was sick with COVID. 00:33:18.543 --> 00:33:21.762 I spent a lot of time on my phone because I was sick with COVID. 00:33:22.903 --> 00:33:26.236 And then I, but I was like, what I found myself doing is scrolling, 00:33:26.713 --> 00:33:31.143 And anyone who's binged a Netflix series or spent a ton of time scrolling on their phone 00:33:31.331 --> 00:33:35.643 will know what I'm talking about, where you're kind of still swiping, you're still watching, 00:33:36.039 --> 00:33:43.863 but your enjoyment level of it has dropped to almost zero. And you're like, why am I still here? 00:33:44.726 --> 00:33:49.165 I'm not actually like when I sat down, I was like, Oh, it was fun for like 10 minutes. 00:33:49.588 --> 00:33:54.023 But then you're like 30 minutes in and you're like, I'm not having fun anymore. I don't feel 00:33:54.023 --> 00:33:58.464 good. Why am I having such a hard time putting this down? It's because... 00:33:59.598 --> 00:34:04.448 The, our brains are like, well, this is such an easy thing to do. 00:34:05.189 --> 00:34:09.789 And it gives us such reliable input of positive rewards or association for new, 00:34:10.308 --> 00:34:15.308 things, novelty or, um, or hilarity or interest or whatever. 00:34:15.451 --> 00:34:19.768 Cause you know, let's say for like every four tick talks you watch, 00:34:19.898 --> 00:34:23.040 you stop on like the fifth one. I'm sure there's some sort of ratio like that. 00:34:24.580 --> 00:34:27.368 Um, and you find, Oh, that one was kind of funny. And then you keep going. 00:34:28.090 --> 00:34:31.592 Yep. And what you do is eventually the reward you're getting kind of tracks down, 00:34:31.934 --> 00:34:36.328 but the input that you're putting in is so low. Your brain is still just telling you to keep 00:34:36.408 --> 00:34:42.568 going, keep going. That dopamine is stuck and you have to kind of like set it away and let your brain 00:34:42.568 --> 00:34:47.928 to kind of recenter and readjust the things that your brain is encouraging to seek after. 00:34:49.048 --> 00:34:54.008 So that's a brief explanation of my, at least understanding of what I've read about like 00:34:54.008 --> 00:35:00.895 like the biochemical, neurological, like addictiveness that phones can have on us. Yeah. 00:35:02.928 --> 00:35:07.070 Yeah, I've often thought of it, well, like I have an addictive, 00:35:07.848 --> 00:35:13.208 and science is not clear on whether or not there are addictive personalities. 00:35:13.345 --> 00:35:14.048 Yeah. 00:35:15.168 --> 00:35:18.308 But I will tell you, and my wife will tell you the same thing, 00:35:18.308 --> 00:35:22.599 Sherry will tell you the same thing, is that I have an addictive personality. 00:35:22.848 --> 00:35:34.048 And like I seem to be more vulnerable to obsession over things, which really is addiction. 00:35:37.528 --> 00:35:41.945 And like whether or not it's a phone, 00:35:44.448 --> 00:35:50.028 or whether it was alcohol or whether it's a hobby or whether it is whatever, 00:35:50.452 --> 00:35:54.548 you know, I think that there is, there. 00:35:56.313 --> 00:36:03.487 Even anachronistically there is a sense of a addiction that comes with people are, 00:36:04.541 --> 00:36:08.327 They're acting as though right they are addicted to. 00:36:10.327 --> 00:36:16.415 Substances that we know that people get addicted to But the substance now is their phone. Yes, I, 00:36:17.767 --> 00:36:21.707 Remember the one one moment where I saw this very clearly in someone else's life 00:36:21.707 --> 00:36:31.872 I've felt it enough in my own life, but I had a I had a student friend in college, roommate, friend, and he was sick. 00:36:32.169 --> 00:36:36.238 He was very sick. He wasn't doing very well. I was like, hey man, how you doing? 00:36:36.346 --> 00:36:39.487 He's like, all good. And he's sitting there on the couch and he's got his phone 00:36:39.487 --> 00:36:40.883 and he's not looking up to me. 00:36:41.288 --> 00:36:47.727 He's like, I took enough ibuprofen so that my headache is not so bad so I can at least look at my phone 00:36:48.040 --> 00:36:49.847 and the headache be tolerable. 00:36:49.847 --> 00:36:57.407 And I'm like, you have a massive migraine, you're sick, and staring at your phone is aggravating your migraine, 00:36:57.407 --> 00:37:00.481 but the only thing you're concerned about is that you took enough ibuprofen 00:37:00.567 --> 00:37:04.370 that the migraine is tolerable enough that you can keep looking at your phone. 00:37:04.887 --> 00:37:13.247 Yep, that's addictive behavior, 100%. 100% is what can I do, 00:37:13.247 --> 00:37:18.152 like if I put it in terms of like alcohol, what can, I hate how I feel, 00:37:19.687 --> 00:37:26.263 I hate what it's doing to my life, how do I rearrange my life so that I can keep drinking more? 00:37:28.987 --> 00:37:36.985 And then it starts over again. And then you hate that you're drinking more and how that feels. 00:37:37.750 --> 00:37:47.950 And so what you do in order to get rid of the feelings of your shame is drink more. 00:37:48.727 --> 00:37:55.530 Right, and I hate this. This is, I hate this. What is, I hate this. 00:37:55.767 --> 00:38:01.247 Just keep going. When I find myself, when I'm able to do this, 00:38:01.247 --> 00:38:02.561 this is a good moment for me. 00:38:02.847 --> 00:38:07.998 I don't always do this, but if I'm able to, when I find myself on my phone, 00:38:08.457 --> 00:38:15.398 like maybe I'm scrolling or I'm, you know, on YouTube watching people pick locks. 00:38:17.747 --> 00:38:21.647 Lock picking lawyer. Lock picking lawyer. If for some reason you ever listen to this podcast, 00:38:21.647 --> 00:38:24.327 I've watched almost all of your videos. 00:38:24.327 --> 00:38:31.727 But anyways, if I'm like doing it and I'm like, and particularly if there's something else 00:38:31.727 --> 00:38:36.805 I ought to be doing, or I'm doing it to a point where I'm like starting to feel a little kind of ick, 00:38:37.372 --> 00:38:42.647 in my gut around like how much I've been sitting here or I'm hungry and I'm not getting up. 00:38:42.647 --> 00:38:44.187 Like, I have to ask myself, all right. 00:38:45.447 --> 00:38:54.257 What am I avoiding? What am I running from? What am I trying to not feel that I'm trying to cover 00:38:54.257 --> 00:39:00.177 up with distraction right now? It ends up being a question I have to ask myself. Sometimes it's like, 00:39:01.282 --> 00:39:07.719 it's a project or a task at work that I'm like, feeling anxious about, feel nervous about, 00:39:07.937 --> 00:39:11.937 trying to procrastinate on. I don't want to do this because I'm nervous about it, or I'm not 00:39:11.937 --> 00:39:17.137 sure I'm gonna do a good job, right? Like if I can name that I'm fearful of something or I'm 00:39:17.137 --> 00:39:23.617 avoiding something, or if I can name like I'm stressed about something or I'm trying to kind 00:39:23.617 --> 00:39:31.857 of like unwind, I'm like, okay, what can I do besides numb out to social media? Can I call a 00:39:31.857 --> 00:39:38.897 friend? Or more to the point, can I pray to God about it rather than just trying to ignore it? 00:39:39.218 --> 00:39:45.857 It? Can I actually take it somewhere that's meaningful, purposeful, and like, redemptive? Yeah, rather than 00:39:45.857 --> 00:39:50.577 just trying to stuff whatever feeling it is I'm trying to cover up with my social media use. 00:39:50.617 --> 00:39:54.817 And that takes an extraordinary amount of self or self awareness. 00:39:54.857 --> 00:40:02.097 Yes. Like I said, I don't always do focus, right? If I'm able to do and sometimes I'm able to name it. And I'm like, I don't 00:40:02.097 --> 00:40:06.577 care. And I keep scrolling. Right? Yeah. Yeah, I get that. 00:40:06.577 --> 00:40:11.577 You know, it is, but it's impacting like. 00:40:13.552 --> 00:40:23.922 It's for something that has become so ubiquitous I feel like we sometimes just don't talk about how much of an impact it's had on pretty much everyone, 00:40:24.805 --> 00:40:26.390 Yeah, because well, 00:40:27.602 --> 00:40:29.602 Because it's not been stigmatized. 00:40:31.746 --> 00:40:41.459 It's it's normalized. Mm-hmm there's we talk about addiction because we're able because it's not a it's not a normative like we, 00:40:42.909 --> 00:40:46.262 Go bank going back to alcohol. We can talk about alcoholism because it's not a, 00:40:47.422 --> 00:40:51.742 Necessarily normative human experience, right? It exists, 00:40:52.702 --> 00:40:57.302 Relatively on the fringes of our lives. Well, everybody's always kind of said well 00:40:57.302 --> 00:41:01.507 Yeah, like if you're using alcohol to this degree that is not appropriate, right? 00:41:03.326 --> 00:41:08.421 But we've Completely normalized being on your phone five plus hours a day. Yes, 00:41:09.924 --> 00:41:13.291 Yeah, in fact, it's kind of and weird not to be. 00:41:13.502 --> 00:41:15.803 Yes. You don't have social media? 00:41:18.153 --> 00:41:23.582 Yeah. Like what? Yep. You know, or this is so funny. 00:41:23.582 --> 00:41:30.756 I was actually, when I was mindlessly scrolling early this morning, not wanting to go out of bed, 00:41:30.942 --> 00:41:35.284 I came upon a reel of Arnold Schwarzenegger. 00:41:35.742 --> 00:41:46.102 Ooh, the Arnold. The Arnold. The interviewer, he was in an interview, absolutely astounded. 00:41:47.482 --> 00:41:53.102 Arnold Schwarzenegger does not have a phone. He's got a hard line in his house, but does not have a cell phone. 00:41:53.102 --> 00:41:57.051 Sounds like an 80s action hero. Yeah. He has an iPad. 00:41:59.212 --> 00:42:04.496 And, and she was like, well, how, how do you get phone calls? 00:42:05.302 --> 00:42:14.651 And he's like, and he's like, I don't, she was like, well, how do you talk to people? 00:42:15.101 --> 00:42:17.942 He was like, I have an iPad and I use FaceTime. 00:42:18.756 --> 00:42:25.102 He was like, I would rather look at someone in their face to talk to them rather than 00:42:25.102 --> 00:42:27.263 have a phone and all of its trappings. 00:42:27.371 --> 00:42:31.656 And, well, what if they don't have FaceTime? 00:42:32.583 --> 00:42:37.502 Then I'm not going to talk to them. I won't be talking to them on that media, essentially, he said. 00:42:37.502 --> 00:42:44.430 And she just could not like, you could tell it was such an aberration, 00:42:45.742 --> 00:42:47.644 that she didn't have a box to put it in. 00:42:47.905 --> 00:42:55.998 Like he was some kind of like circus sideshow freak for not having a phone. 00:42:56.262 --> 00:43:01.262 And so to say, well, we have completely normalized. 00:43:03.983 --> 00:43:13.490 Completely normalized the use and by extension overuse of that form of media or form of technology 00:43:13.622 --> 00:43:21.382 that to not participate in it in the way in which everyone else is makes us the weird ones. 00:43:21.382 --> 00:43:29.222 The weird ones. Well, and, and so this, this is like, most of us have taken for granted 00:43:29.222 --> 00:43:36.031 that apps like Facebook, Instagram, TikTok, Twitter, whatever social media you prefer 00:43:36.302 --> 00:43:44.182 to use YouTube, um, doesn't cost you anything monetarily. Well, we could make an argument 00:43:44.182 --> 00:43:50.507 it costs you something monetarily, but it's costing your time. Um, but, um, it doesn't, 00:43:51.146 --> 00:43:56.982 don't typically have to pay a subscription fee. That seems to be slightly changing. There's some options for subscriptions in some of those 00:43:57.277 --> 00:44:07.182 platforms now. But we're like, oh it's like a free thing. And actually one of the interesting arguments that the author in the book I'm reading, 00:44:07.182 --> 00:44:10.342 one of the things where I think I would probably disagree with him a little bit, 00:44:10.870 --> 00:44:15.102 is he kind of says, well maybe what if we treated social media, what if we treated 00:44:15.102 --> 00:44:19.566 Facebook, like a social, like a social utility, like plumbing. 00:44:20.404 --> 00:44:23.770 Or like, like sewer systems and waterways and things like that. 00:44:24.257 --> 00:44:32.980 Like, you know, we have government bodies oversee, like sewers, like, why don't we have government bodies overseeing the 00:44:33.382 --> 00:44:42.792 internet and overseeing social media as like a social utility that everyone has a has a human right to have access to. And my, 00:44:43.161 --> 00:44:45.736 My problem with that is I was like I. 00:44:47.672 --> 00:44:52.321 Like, I think humans exist off of social media and I think they probably should. 00:44:53.289 --> 00:44:59.681 Like, I don't think it actually should be necessarily treated as a social utility 00:44:59.681 --> 00:45:01.001 that people have access. 00:45:01.001 --> 00:45:03.961 And there's a whole bunch of things that I would want to have. 00:45:04.281 --> 00:45:09.121 I don't know that I would agree with in his particular solution and conclusion in that direction. 00:45:09.745 --> 00:45:14.912 Um, but like one is to simply say that, like, you don't actually have to be on social media. Right. 00:45:15.938 --> 00:45:20.841 It does cost you something. It costs, like you're paying social media 00:45:20.841 --> 00:45:25.841 with all of your biometric interest and profile information. 00:45:26.921 --> 00:45:30.189 All your advertising wants and needs. All your advertising wants and needs. 00:45:30.603 --> 00:45:33.277 Like, look, if you were under the assumption 00:45:33.421 --> 00:45:40.677 that big tech does not have like multiple profiles of you that connected and have connected 00:45:40.767 --> 00:45:45.421 all of your accounts, all your email accounts, all your social media accounts. 00:45:45.952 --> 00:45:50.081 Like why do they ask for your email account when you make any profile? 00:45:50.081 --> 00:45:55.401 Well, because then it knows which, knows to connect you to that profile. 00:45:55.401 --> 00:45:58.600 And even if you've got multiple emails, I guarantee you they've got all those emails connected, 00:45:59.561 --> 00:46:01.148 to you as an individual. 00:46:01.481 --> 00:46:10.051 And then they know what types of videos you like to watch. And then depending on the type of like stuff that you like, 00:46:10.821 --> 00:46:15.533 if you use fitness material and stuff like that, They might even know how healthy you are. 00:46:16.801 --> 00:46:20.359 They know whether or not they need to be advertising you health medication. 00:46:21.041 --> 00:46:24.689 They know what life stage you're in, if you're getting married soon, 00:46:24.801 --> 00:46:26.904 or if you're getting ready to have kids. 00:46:27.321 --> 00:46:32.281 Like the amount of like, when I started getting engaged and everything, 00:46:32.281 --> 00:46:35.618 the amount of content I got that was geared towards, 00:46:36.121 --> 00:46:41.461 like couples, like newly wed people on the internet, like- 00:46:41.461 --> 00:46:44.611 You did not search for I did not search for got skyrocketed. Yeah, right, 00:46:45.621 --> 00:46:53.281 And of course because I'm like in that stage of life, I watched more of it So it fed more of it, but it knows like and I'm sure they've got an algorithm out there 00:46:53.281 --> 00:46:58.081 That's looking to say, you know, somebody who's like maybe a diaper or baby food, 00:46:58.621 --> 00:47:06.421 Advertisement or something like that? Like I'm sure or better yet I'll probably get like the advertisements for like the camo baby carriers or something like that 00:47:06.421 --> 00:47:10.661 that. They're like, okay, we want to look at people who are recently married this 00:47:10.661 --> 00:47:14.589 many years ago, and we're going to send them these types of advertisements that 00:47:14.781 --> 00:47:16.861 that are geared towards people who are thinking, 00:47:19.116 --> 00:47:27.547 That is a hundred percent the reality. Um, the, the book talks, they're interviewing, he interviews several people 00:47:19.116 --> 00:47:17.415 having kids. 00:47:27.547 --> 00:47:35.787 Who worked in big tech and then have left because of their consciences convicting them over how they were using people's information and stuff. 00:47:36.374 --> 00:47:43.927 And while the book, the book makes the assertation, cause if you've ever like said, like, I swear, my phone must be listening to my conversations. 00:47:44.170 --> 00:47:44.767 Cause it is. 00:47:45.196 --> 00:47:50.724 Well, they say it's not their answer. they're like, they swear, they're like, your phone is probably not listening to you. 00:47:51.732 --> 00:47:57.247 The algorithm is actually just that good. It actually has that much information on you 00:47:57.439 --> 00:48:00.473 that it can make predictions about you without having listening to you. 00:48:02.363 --> 00:48:05.167 That is the conclusion that they... Jesus needs to come back soon. 00:48:05.167 --> 00:48:11.924 Put forth in the book, yeah. So if you think that using social media is not costing you anything, 00:48:12.221 --> 00:48:18.631 it 100% is. Because if they have enough information on you, they're definitely selling you things, 00:48:18.838 --> 00:48:24.287 and you're definitely paying in that way. And you're also just paying in loss of privacy and 00:48:24.287 --> 00:48:31.967 all of that, if that's a concern to you. But all that to say, I don't think that we actually have 00:48:32.134 --> 00:48:41.087 to be on social media. Like, um, the human, like the human brain, uh, like our, we, we kind of cap 00:48:41.087 --> 00:48:49.887 out around a hundred, like semi close connections, a hundred, 150 is about like where we kind of like 00:48:49.887 --> 00:48:58.927 cap out as far as having semi meaningful personal relationships. Um, some people can probably have 00:48:58.927 --> 00:49:03.727 more but like and I'm not talking like close friendships you can't have 150 close friends 00:49:03.849 --> 00:49:10.601 but like you can have 150, let's say 200, like meaningful acquaintances in your life. 00:49:11.726 --> 00:49:16.641 Social media like gives you access to thousands. 00:49:17.812 --> 00:49:24.436 If you've been on Facebook as long as I have like you have an inflation of friends that do not actually represent meaningful connections anymore, 00:49:25.266 --> 00:49:32.436 like I remember when I first got on social media. It's like I'm only gonna make say yes to friend requests of people who are like, 00:49:33.007 --> 00:49:42.577 meaningfully connected to me while I was in high school and like Like that, who those people have has changed and in slash I gave up on that, you know, 00:49:42.730 --> 00:49:43.656 thing. 00:49:43.656 --> 00:49:46.214 I just say yes to a bunch of friend requests because I met them once. 00:49:46.336 --> 00:49:50.016 Well, because people will say that that's the benefit of social media. 00:49:50.553 --> 00:49:54.568 Right. But you, you actually can't take advantage of it. 00:49:55.594 --> 00:50:00.496 You're, we don't have the intel, like we don't have the brain bandwidth or the emotional 00:50:00.496 --> 00:50:04.839 bandwidth to maintain even that many relationships and connections, right? 00:50:05.136 --> 00:50:12.626 You're supposed to maintain about as many connections as you can tolerate in person. 00:50:13.116 --> 00:50:21.232 Because about 150 or 200 meaningful acquaintances is about what you can tolerate for in-person connection. 00:50:22.796 --> 00:50:28.416 And so, what are we doing when we're demanding ourselves to, or trying to expect that we do more than that? 00:50:29.716 --> 00:50:33.107 And you end up with these weird parasocial relationships and everything. 00:50:33.224 --> 00:50:38.256 So I don't it's like I guess like all that to say that like I think that is slightly a myth, 00:50:38.886 --> 00:50:43.876 This idea of being I want to be connected to everybody. I think that's a bit of a myth 00:50:43.876 --> 00:50:49.696 Like you're not really you have like at best like you should probably just keep a phone book. 00:50:52.920 --> 00:50:57.410 Like, if you actually just want, like, well, I want to be able to, like, contact them if I want to 00:50:57.410 --> 00:51:01.851 catch up with them someday. Okay, keep their phone number. Keep, like, an email address. 00:51:01.905 --> 00:51:03.250 Do you know my phone number? 00:51:04.056 --> 00:51:08.930 Off the top of my head, no. I don't know my wife's phone number off the top of my head, Cameron. 00:51:08.930 --> 00:51:14.210 I don't. I don't. I know the zip code because I just typed it in several times yesterday. 00:51:14.210 --> 00:51:15.264 Yeah, we don't need to, right? 00:51:15.354 --> 00:51:21.730 But I don't need to, you know. But, like, yeah. Like, how many connections do you maintain 00:51:21.730 --> 00:51:28.010 Yeah on social media that like that are actually meaningful actually meaningful and you say well 00:51:28.010 --> 00:51:30.810 I don't want to unfriend them because like what if one day I want to, 00:51:31.540 --> 00:51:41.130 Look at their page and actually I mean gossip about what they're posting We all have people that we have as friends on social media that we if we see them across the room in in an actual, 00:51:41.930 --> 00:51:48.365 Situation we avoid yeah, because it's awkward. Yep. Why right because we are not actually connected to them or 00:51:48.474 --> 00:51:53.370 or wouldn't recognize them because we made connections with them so long ago. 00:51:53.370 --> 00:51:54.199 Right. 00:51:54.496 --> 00:51:59.582 It's like, oh yeah, we met one time, we may connected on social and then that was it, you know? 00:52:00.743 --> 00:52:08.850 Like, yeah. So I don't think, I think like that, to me at least a little bit debunks that personal excuse 00:52:08.850 --> 00:52:15.651 of like, I gotta stay on social so I can be reached and connected with people. Yeah. Yeah. No. 00:52:18.100 --> 00:52:24.856 Well, we encourage people, maybe we can put a link in the show notes or whatever in the 00:52:24.856 --> 00:52:31.513 description or maybe even do a fancy thing on the screen here, link to that book for you. 00:52:32.126 --> 00:52:36.906 Yeah. Well, you know, I'll also, I'll share like something that I have been doing personally, 00:52:37.176 --> 00:52:40.741 like in my own kind of trying to navigate my relationship with my phone. 00:52:43.027 --> 00:52:47.925 What? What is so funny about that? Is it that I answer more advice on your phone? 00:52:48.347 --> 00:52:55.296 I just trying to man it. It's a difficult relationship. It's really complicated on again, off again, relationship. Really? Yeah. 00:52:56.136 --> 00:52:58.136 She keeps talking to people behind my back. 00:53:03.856 --> 00:53:10.496 Yeah. The way we talk about it. Oh man. We live in such a dystopian world sometimes. Um, but like, uh, 00:53:10.536 --> 00:53:14.247 you can do things like set app limits on like your, your thing. 00:53:14.652 --> 00:53:19.016 I've been using an app called, by the way, none of this is sponsored. 00:53:19.016 --> 00:53:20.676 This is just- It can be, if you want. 00:53:20.918 --> 00:53:25.796 It can be. If you are the developers of these things, you can definitely pay us for this. 00:53:26.896 --> 00:53:30.536 I'm using an app called Opal. I've been using it like maybe the last month or so. 00:53:30.536 --> 00:53:36.960 It's a little bit more advanced than like the inbuilt screen time app on iPhones. 00:53:37.056 --> 00:53:42.976 You've got a little bit more features and stuff, but what I've got it, I'm not taking full advantage of it, 00:53:42.976 --> 00:53:46.853 but I do have a basic setup so that during the weekdays 00:53:47.236 --> 00:53:50.877 from essentially like midnight until one o'clock in the afternoon, 00:53:51.036 --> 00:53:54.334 all of my social media apps are like off limits blocked. 00:53:55.236 --> 00:53:59.105 So that means, cause that's when I get my most productive amount of thought 00:53:59.216 --> 00:54:04.723 and work time done is between like morning hours to like post afternoon slump. 00:54:05.316 --> 00:54:11.771 And so by putting a limit on it and that I cannot open those apps during that time. 00:54:12.636 --> 00:54:19.864 Allows me to be a little bit more focused. I had it on for a couple weeks, and then I took it off 00:54:20.261 --> 00:54:26.022 and did a couple days of work without having it on, and my productivity just went, foo, just dropped. 00:54:26.481 --> 00:54:29.166 So it actually did benefit me. And there's different levels. 00:54:29.166 --> 00:54:34.493 You can block it so that you can take a break for a couple minutes, or you can turn it off early, 00:54:34.898 --> 00:54:41.326 or you can set a block that is unmovable and will not change until a certain time. 00:54:41.326 --> 00:54:47.159 So like you can do a thing like if you're trying to figure out a way of like you want to do like that retreat Cameron like you can, 00:54:47.654 --> 00:54:53.966 Set it default have it select all apps and disable them and then unselect like the few that you're like 00:54:53.966 --> 00:55:01.006 All right I need the phone call one and then and then that's it or like phone call and Google Maps or whatever, 00:55:01.482 --> 00:55:03.646 And those are the only two things that your phone can do, 00:55:04.462 --> 00:55:10.446 And then you set a like time limit or a date limit of when that app limit will turn up and you can set it, 00:55:11.132 --> 00:55:14.126 it either at a level where you can turn it off if you want to. 00:55:14.126 --> 00:55:18.026 Are the controls password protected or something like that? No, they're not password protected. 00:55:18.026 --> 00:55:24.105 But if you can set it so you can turn it off and that it just says, hey, do you want to take a break, 00:55:24.246 --> 00:55:25.410 how long are you going to take a break? 00:55:26.518 --> 00:55:29.246 And then you can set it for a time limit and it turns it back off. 00:55:29.246 --> 00:55:33.440 And if you want to take another break, you can turn it back on and have access to those. 00:55:33.526 --> 00:55:38.031 Or you can set it so it just sends you a reminder and says, hey, you said you didn't want to be on this. 00:55:38.566 --> 00:55:44.198 Or you can go all the way to the extreme of saying, there is no way to turn this limit off. 00:55:45.368 --> 00:55:47.799 Without uninstalling the app. 00:55:49.966 --> 00:55:54.086 So there's that. There's another, it does cost a subscription, 00:55:54.086 --> 00:55:58.565 which like, you know, if you need another subscription in your life, you know. 00:55:58.806 --> 00:56:03.526 But you're also, there's a little bit of a psychology thing behind it. 00:56:03.589 --> 00:56:07.253 I'm paying for it, so I should take advantage of it kind of thing. 00:56:07.566 --> 00:56:11.206 And then there was another product that isn't released yet, but I find really intriguing. 00:56:11.206 --> 00:56:12.636 I don't know if I'll get it yet or not. 00:56:12.766 --> 00:56:16.354 I don't know if it's on Kickstarter, or I'm sure if you Googled it, you could find it. 00:56:16.686 --> 00:56:19.118 Maybe I'll put a link to it. It's called a Brick, 00:56:19.626 --> 00:56:24.429 and it's this little round square brick looking thing. 00:56:25.126 --> 00:56:28.867 And it comes with an app, and you set up whatever you want to kind of, 00:56:29.306 --> 00:56:33.246 you set up whatever things, whatever apps you want to have access to, 00:56:33.246 --> 00:56:35.250 and the ones you don't want to have access to. 00:56:35.406 --> 00:56:40.390 You tap it to it, and then, foop, and your phone will essentially become up. 00:56:41.362 --> 00:56:47.932 It'll just be able to do only the five or four apps that you feel are absolutely in this necessity, 00:56:48.645 --> 00:56:52.892 Keep the phone with you and it is not until you come back and touch that brick, 00:56:53.506 --> 00:56:56.192 That you can disable that so like if you're going on a vacation, 00:56:57.035 --> 00:57:02.172 It's a really good way the brick home leave the brick home tap it. All right. I have now access to my, 00:57:03.238 --> 00:57:11.952 like phone And google maps and maybe spotify or something like that and that's it and I will not be able to turn that off until I come back home and, 00:57:13.041 --> 00:57:18.612 Tap that brick. That's cool idea, you know and like the physicality of it like brings some. 00:57:19.910 --> 00:57:25.452 You know You could do that even for like if you're one of those people who uses your phone as your alarm 00:57:25.452 --> 00:57:27.724 Which you probably shouldn't do but I do, 00:57:28.892 --> 00:57:37.888 or Like in you're like like I want to keep myself from scrolling in bed Like, okay, put the brick outside of your bedroom, 00:57:38.692 --> 00:57:41.894 tap it before you go to bed, and then take your phone with you into bed. 00:57:42.052 --> 00:57:43.262 Now you can't do anything on it. 00:57:43.452 --> 00:57:46.413 So now you should just read or whatever. You can still use it as your alarm. 00:57:47.552 --> 00:57:51.769 People can still get ahold of you in the middle of an emergency, but you've limited it. 00:57:52.092 --> 00:57:55.252 You know, so there's, there are some practical steps like that 00:57:55.252 --> 00:57:59.673 that you can begin to take to limit that. 00:57:59.852 --> 00:58:09.612 And so the book, Stolen Focus, would actually, he doesn't disagree with what I'm saying, but he would say that it's too short of a solution. 00:58:09.909 --> 00:58:14.852 Because his primary conclusion is, he's like, well, we have these big companies who've done this to us, 00:58:14.852 --> 00:58:19.852 and somewhat maliciously, not necessarily always intentionally, 00:58:19.852 --> 00:58:24.609 but somewhat maliciously. And now it's all personal responsibility up to fix it. 00:58:24.852 --> 00:58:29.172 Fix it. And I think that's an interesting conversation if you want to have it. 00:58:29.172 --> 00:58:32.312 But I think it's similar to the conversation just about like. 00:58:33.756 --> 00:58:42.290 Of Yeah, so like personal yeah personal responsibility like do we have the ability to say no, yeah, 00:58:43.109 --> 00:58:49.672 yeah, and so it's like a You know, we can debate. I think his his opinion is is worth considering that like well. 00:58:50.887 --> 00:58:56.206 Like yeah, maybe we should have companies that are doing this to us and trying 00:58:56.206 --> 00:59:02.086 actively to manipulate us to have some limits or accountability on them. I think 00:59:02.086 --> 00:59:07.126 that's a worthwhile conversation having, but I can't make that legislation happen 00:59:07.316 --> 00:59:12.526 tomorrow. So in the meantime, what's my personal responsibility and ownership 00:59:12.526 --> 00:59:15.606 over the things that I am doing with my time? Or what are the 00:59:15.606 --> 00:59:24.806 underlying issues, so why I am? Yes, I think that's a worthwhile conversation. So those are a couple things I'm looking at and 00:59:24.806 --> 00:59:29.526 trying to do and kind of my, uh, to try and curb tail some, not 00:59:29.858 --> 00:59:34.126 cause I use social media as part of what I do here. Conduit. Like, 00:59:34.326 --> 00:59:42.606 I'm like, Oh, not all, but a lot of the stuff that ends up on socials, I end up messing with. And so I want to be able to do 00:59:42.606 --> 00:59:47.466 that. And I enjoy social media usage within a certain limit. 00:59:47.673 --> 00:59:55.739 There's like a, uh, so much time I can spend so much time on YouTube before, I'm like, this is a now a net loss on me. Yeah. 00:59:56.126 --> 01:00:03.366 You know, so trying to live with inside what I feel are like healthy limits for myself, without just completely turning 01:00:03.366 --> 01:00:10.107 everything off and deleting it forever. Yeah, moderation, of course. Yeah. And so and for some people, moderation is none. 01:00:10.890 --> 01:00:16.686 Right? You know, and that's, that's a matter of conscience. And I don't know, I might, I might become convinced of that 01:00:16.686 --> 01:00:19.928 eventually. So we'll see. Good, 01:00:20.666 --> 01:00:24.606 conversation. Yeah, I feel like there's probably more there. But if you're listening to the 01:00:24.606 --> 01:00:29.326 podcast, and you've got thoughts or questions or experiences, 01:00:29.326 --> 01:00:33.819 like, drop a comment, drop us a message, let us know, like, how 01:00:34.086 --> 01:00:38.347 are you experiencing social media what you're like. 01:00:37.636 --> 01:00:45.406 A relationship with your phone or other tech devices, like how's that maybe been impacting 01:00:45.549 --> 01:00:49.726 your spiritual life or your relationships with your family or other responsibilities. 01:00:49.726 --> 01:00:56.686 We'd love to hear more of that, because I think if we get some, maybe some feedback on what you 01:00:56.686 --> 01:01:00.808 guys are dealing with and thinking through on this topic, I think we could definitely revisit this. 01:01:00.897 --> 01:01:09.146 Yeah, I would say maybe not necessarily a book solely focused on technology and focus 01:01:09.146 --> 01:01:16.266 and all of that, but the most recent classic is John Mark Comer's The Ruthless Elimination 01:01:16.266 --> 01:01:22.666 of Hurry, which kind of addresses some of these issues. 01:01:22.666 --> 01:01:29.624 He goes from a pretty wide perspective down to a granular perspective, so you could pick that book up. 01:01:30.146 --> 01:01:38.635 Deconstructs the idol of being busy. Yep. I'm just so busy. Mm-hmm. Yeah, as it's as if it's a badge of honor Yeah. 01:01:39.670 --> 01:01:45.684 All right. Well, thanks for listening, everyone, and we will catch you on the next episode. Yep. Bye. 01:01:46.000 --> 01:02:11.881 Music.