Interior Integration for Catholics

In directness and clarity, we explore the common struggles that Catholics face in their sexuality, and how shame complicates the picture. We discuss why it's hard for Catholics to open up about their sexual struggles and how we can understand internal conflict around sexuality through and IFS-informed model of the person system made up of a core self and parts.

Show Notes

  1. Intro: Welcome to the podcast Resilient Catholics -- the podcast formerly known as Coronavirus Crisis: Carpe Diem!  That's right, in this new year we have a new name, and it's fitting because we have broadened our scope to do so much more than help you, our listeners deal with the Coronavirus Crisis.  
    1. When this started out.
       
      1. Coping skills, build resilience, not alone-- crisis management.  Now a long crisis.  

    3. Now not just about making it through the coronavirus crisis
    4. Now we are really about increasing resilience through transformation -- a radical transformation of self, overcoming anything that gets in the way of us loving God our Father and Mary our Mother with the trust and dependence of a little child. 
      1. Resilience from a Catholic perspective
      2. And there are both great similarities and great differences in resilience understood from a Catholic Perspective and Resilience from a secular perspective
    5. Resilience through Human formation --  a lot more to say about this in the future. 
    6. We are still all about rising up and embrace the possibilities and opportunities for spiritual and psychological growth right now, in these days, all grounded in a Catholic worldview.    
    7. I’m clinical psychologist Peter Malinoski and I am here with you, to be your host and guide.  
    8. This podcast is part of Souls and Hearts, our online outreach at soulsandhearts.com, which is all about shoring up our natural foundation for the Catholic spiritual life, all about overcoming psychological obstacles to being loved and to loving God and neighbor
    9. This is episode 49, released on January 4, 2021
    10. and it is titled: The secret impact of our shame on our sexuality
    11. This is the 13th and final episode in our series on shame.  We are wrapping up that series, but we will be coming back to shame over and over again in future episodes, because of how central it is in our lives.  
    12. This is also the first episode on a new series of episodes, a new series all about sexuality.  
      1. We are going to spend time on sexuality and in the coming weeks we will address many topics, including masturbation, pornography, adulterous affairs, pre-marital sex, asexuality, homosexuality, and sexual trauma and its effects.  
      2. And we're going to get into the topic of sexuality the same way we do with all the topics on this podcast.
         
        1. We assume that what the Catholic Church has always infallibly taught to be true is indeed true, and then starting from that theological, philosophical and metaphysical base, we bring in the best of what psychology offers.  And we harmonize the best of psychology with what we know  to be true by Divine Revelation.  Here we don't try to reshape Catholicism to fit the latest and greatest woke ideas from the world about sexuality.  

        1. So I will be coming from that Catholic base.  And that is a minority position in psychology -- if you want to know what the latest trends and beliefs are in the secular psychology community you can check out the guidelines that the American Psychological Association puts out on its website APA.org. This podcast is for people who really want to understand psychology harmonized with the perennial teaching of the Catholic church
      4.  
        1. And to that end, I invite feedback, especially if I teach anything that is in error.  Please get in touch with me at crisis@soulsandhearts.com or at 317.567.9594.  
          1. Citations -- Catechism, Canon Law, Denzinger's Compendium, Ludwig Ott Fundamentals of Catholic Dogma
          2. Don't email me and tell me that a confessor you went to ten years ago said that masturbation is normal and God doesn't mind it all.  That's not helpful.   

  2. Sexuality is such a huge and complex issue and so confusing for people.  One of the two most difficult topics for people to discuss.  The other one?  My relationship God, how I see God, all the personal or lack of personal connection with Jesus, with God our Father, with the Holy Spirit, with Mary, our Mother. 
    1. Sexuality is difficult and confusing for so many reasons
       
      1. Shame is at the center -- hard to talk about this because it is so personal and so intimate, and often so bound up with shame.  
        1. Sexuality not talked about, not discussed
           
          1. Modeling from parents -- conveyed a sense of embarrassment
        2.  
          1. No modeling from others
        3.  
          1. Deep feelings of incompetence, not knowing, not understanding
        4.  
          1. Not sure about what is normal and not normal, what is morally acceptable, what is not
        5.  
          1. Not wanting to embarrass a spouse or fiancé or girlfriend or boyfriend
        6.  
          1. Not wanting to make the listener uncomfortable
        7.  
          1. Not sure if the other person -- like a therapist -- will respect Catholic beliefs.
             
            1. Many clients reach out to Catholic therapists because of this fear -- if I am struggling with porn use or masturbation will this therapist inwardly mock my beliefs -- or outwardly say that masturbation is normal and porn use can enhance one's sexual experience.  

            1. Many clients are afraid to disclose to a Catholic therapist their sexual experiences, for fear of being judged -- two-edged sword
               
              1. Some grounds for that -- some Catholic therapists are uncomfortable with hearing, may feel undue pressure to make sure some change happens,  May be overly concerned with their own "participation" in some way with sexual material coming up.  Not know what to do, and signal to the client that it's better "not to go there."  



        9. Sexuality part and parcel of our bodies, all about our bodies
           
          1. Body keeps the Score -- body is where we tend to hide all kinds of unresolved psychological issues
        10.  
          1. Catholics often hold Manichean and Jansenist ideas about the body.  

        12. Catholics who are serious about their faith often have a propensity to start with self-judgement and self-condemnation, like at the end of a trial, without really understanding themselves well.
           
          1. Internal self-shaming
        13.  
        14. And all of this makes sense, makes sense, because almost all of us Catholic adults have sinned sexually.  
        15. Review of Shame (Episodes 37, 38 for full picture)
           
          1. Shame is:  a primary emotion, a bodily reaction, a signal,  a judgement, and an action. (Click to episode 38 for a summary)
        16.  
          1. Qualities of shame
             
            1. Shame is hidden.  Hidden from others, hidden from God, often hidden from the therapist, hidden from self.  

            1.   Shame inhibits positive emotions
          3.  


      1. And a Catholic view of sexuality, in which sexuality is ordered to what is good, true and beautiful is so different than what the world offers us. Moral issues
         
        1. Stating a standard -- even reading a Bible passage can be considered hate speech.  
          1. Cancel culture.  

        1. Rule based rather than relationship-based approaches
      3.  

      1. So many needs and messages being expressed
    4.  
      1. Model of suppression and condemnation. Out of conscious awareness, then it doesn't exist any more -- Many clients -- why do we have to get into it -- it's just lust.  I just need to stop having these thoughts, or recalling these memories or whatever.  Parts that have very simplistic models, very simple ideas that are really lacking awareness of important realities.  

      1. External attribution -- it's the demons.  It's all temptation.  

      1. Teachings vs. interpretations, implementations -- prudential judgement. 

      1. Lots of bad advice out there.  
        1. Secular advice based off of a primary orienting principle of satisfaction of our carnal desires, whatever they may be, as long as anyone else involved is consenting freely guided by the spirit of our age, the sexual revolution.
        2. So-called well-intentioned "Catholic" advice that doesn't reflect what the Church actually teaches
           
          1. Freelancing theologians and philosophers that have rejected the perennial teachings of the Church and create confusion among the faithful -- priests and bishops who teach things that are contrary to the deposit of faith handed down through the generations.  

          1. Huge appetite for these novel pseudodoctrines on sexuality -- itching ears, so there is a receptive audience.  
            1. Proverbs 3:5  Trust in the Lord with all your heart And do not lean on your own understanding.

        5. Advice that is mistaken because the advisor isn't comfortable dealing with the sexual issues the person has
           
          1. Siloed -- Philosophical and theological explications on sexual ethics -- not really helpful to the traumatized former sex workers I was working with 20 years ago.   -- Hard to connect to their experience, not really sensitive to the pervasive impact of trauma.  

          1. Inexperience
        7.  
          1. Their own personal issues
        8.  
          1. Priest actively masturbating -- conflicted about it. Unresolved longstanding problem.  How are they going to handle this in confession?  Errors of being too lenient, too harsh, etc.  Sacrament still valid if the form is there and intentionality is there, but what about the human formation aspects
        9.  

    9. Definitional issues -- broad definition of sexuality = all those factors or elements within a person that are associated with sex.  
      1. Mindset:  Attitudes, thoughts, fantasies -- intellect
      2. Heartset:  Emotions, romance, relational factors
      3. Bodyset:  Physical sensations, somatic reactions such as orgasm, bodily impulses, reproduction
      4. Soulset:  Beliefs, conscience, spiritual aspects.
      5. Actions
    10. So many contradictory internal messages, ideas, passions -- internal battles about sexuality.  
  3. Sexuality is such an important issue to address
     
    1. So much confusion
  4.  
    1. So many sexual wounds and injuries that are often deeply buried.  

    1. Sensitive barometer
  6.  
    1. Stakes are high.  Our Lady of Fatima to St. Jacinta:  More souls go to Hell because of sins of the flesh than for any other reason. 

    1. Lots of grave matter in the sexual arena --   pornography use, masturbation, artificial contraception, extramarital affairs -- another way of saying adulterous affairs, pre-marital sex, another way of saying fornication -- committing rape or incest, and these are just the beginning.  

  9. How are we going to go about it differently
     
    1. Address the natural level aspects of human sexuality head on -- no skirting around the issues
       
      1. Clear, direct language -- so parents, be thoughtful about how much you may want your young children to hear from this series of episodes at their level of development.  


    1. Fidelity to what the Catholic Church has historically taught -- humility, let me know.
  11.  
    1. But like we have been doing with this series on shame, we are going to bring in findings from psychology, physiology, neuroscience, to more deeply understand the truths of traditional Catholic teaching about sexuality.
  12.  
    1. Focus on clarity within -- via parts -- listening to the parts of us which is listening to ourselves.  

    1. Instead of repression, suppression, denial, instead of simplistic ideas that if I'm not thinking about it, it's not there -- I'm inviting you to look at what our internal experiences are telling us about us.
  14.  
    1. Moral distinctions -- between what is morally wrong, and what is disordered but not morally wrong.  

  16. Discussion of Parts
     
    1. Discrete, autonomous mental systems, each with own idiosyncratic range of emotion, style of expression, abilities, desires, views of the world. 
      1. Modes of operating
      2. Subpersonalities
      3. Orchestra model
      4. Focus is on integration.  

    1. Each part had good intentions for us, is trying to pursue a good.  

    1. Each part has a different understanding of sexuality, a different perspective on sexuality, based on its experiences.  
      1. We discussed in episode 38 how each part has a God image, a way of understanding God -- this goes back to our God image series that ran from episodes 23 to 29.  
      2. Similarly, each part has a different experience of sexuality.
      3. These experiences and understandings of sexuality can be quite distorted based on the part's experience and the meaning that the part made from the experience.  
        1. Just like a part's God image -- the understanding of God can be very warped because of what a part experienced in relationship and how it made spiritual sense out of its experiences.  

    1. Parts get forced into extreme roles -- attachment injuries and relational traumas
  20.  
    1. Three roles
       
      1. Exiles -- 
        1. most sensitive -- become injured or outraged.  Threatens the system, external relationships
        2. Exploited, rejected, abandoned in external relationships, including sexual relationships
        3. Want care and love, rescue, redemption -- can be motivated to do almost anything to be seen, cared for.  
        4. shame.  Need for redemption 
        5. Often hurt sexually.  Often carry the burden of shame from sexual experiences.  
        6. Often desire sexual experiences that are corrective in some way
        7. May have experienced some kind of sexual contact in the context of relationships
        8. Often very young parts, caught in the past.  
        9. They hold the material that is really threatening and destabilizing to our systems.  

      1. Managers -- usually the ones in charge.  
        1. Protective, strategic, controlling environment, keep things safe, keeping the exiles suppressed
        2. Often guard against sexual experiences -- very self-protective
           
          1. Soulset -- moral issues
        3.  
          1. Bodyset -- body integrity
        4.  
          1. Heartset -- emotional intensity and relational attachments
        5.  
          1. Mindset -- keeping a clear head, not being overwhelmed.  

        7. Not all that interested in getting to know the exiles -- too much intensity there.  

      1. Firefighters
         
        1. Stifle, anesthetize, distract from feelings of exiles
      2.  
        1. No concern for consequences
      3.  
        1. Binge eating, drug/alcohol use, dissociation, cutting
      4.  
        1. This is where a lot of sexual acting out happens.  Desperately distracting from the exiles' pain and intensity.  



    1. Parts can take over the person
       
      1. Like in Pixar Movie Inside Out -- anger taking over the control panel of the main character Riley
    2.  
      1. We call it blending.
    3.  
      1. Explains radically inconsistent approaches to sexuality -- when different parts are blended
    4.  
      1. Explains polarizations -- parts locked into combat within a person   


  23. IFS on the Self (more in episode 42)
     
    1. Self defined as the seat of consciousness
  24.  
    1. When self accepts and loves parts, those parts transform back into who they were meant to be
  25.  
    1. Self-led mind is self-righting.
  26.  
    1. self -- Active inner leader -- more than mindfulness
  27.  
    1. Parts find the relationship with the self very reassuring
       
      1. But to reap the benefits they have to unblend from and notice the self
    2.  
      1. This is frightening can challenging to parts
    3.  
      1. Agency in the parts -- parts are making decisions about unblending in IFS model
    4.  

    1. Intrinsic qualities of the self
       
      1. Curiosity
    2.  
      1. Compassion
    3.  
      1. Calm
    4.  
      1. Confidence
    5.  
      1. Courage
    6.  
      1. Clarity
    7.  
      1. Creativity
    8.  
      1. Connectedness
    9.  
      1. Kindness
    10.  
      1. We want to approach issues around sexuality 


    1. The self can be easily occluded, obscured, hidden by protective parts who take over in response to fear, anger or shame
       
      1. General state for most people is to be quite blended
    2.  
      1. Leads to self-absorption
    3.  

  31. Examples -- made up, a composite
     
    1. Seminarian -- concerned about homosexual desires and thoughts 
      1. Uncle molested him as a child -- most involved male relative in his life.  Most affection, the most caring. Took him fishing, took him boating, listened to him.  
      2. Distant father found out -- threatened to beat up the uncle, banned him from the family's life. 
      3. Identity issues for a part -- wanting to connect with this uncle, wanting him back in his life.  Wanting to learn how to be a man from him.  Emotionally connection
      4. Part is attracted to older men who remind him of his uncle.  Confusing sexual aspects to it.  All mixed in.  Part isn't wanting sex with men per se -- that's not the focus.  The part is trying to find what it needs to become a man, especially a man not like father, but one that is both warm and strong, that is emotionally connected and relational.  
      5. Relieved that it is one part that is same-sex attracted.  

    1. Masturbation
       
      1. We will go into this much more in a future episode
    2.  
      1. Lots of reasons for masturbation
    3.  
      1. Part's idea of relating is fusion -- that's how he connects
    4.  
      1. Pattern of masturbating when feeling closer to God
    5.  
      1. One Part terrified of God -- terrible God image, we will be consumed by God, we will be lost in God, like a drop of water in the ocean, we will lose our identity, we will be annihilated. 

      1. Better to masturbate to get some distance from such a terrible God.  

      1. Sin separates us from God -- for this part, that's seen as a good thing, necessary for self-preservation.  Good intention, but that's not enough for an act to be ordered and morally good.  Ends don’t justify the means.  


 
  1. What heals the shame?  Real love.  What heals sexual injuries and traumas -- authentic love.  
    1. So the wounds have to come to light.  Time heals all wounds -- ridiculous notion.  Sexual wounds that are more than 60 years old, just as fresh and raw and painful as the day they were inflicted.  Frozen in time.  
    2. That's what we are looking for.  
    3. You may need help -- a therapist, a group, a 12 step program, but it's really, really helpful to have one person who knows you well, including your sexual struggles.
  2. Wrap up
     
    1. Next week continuing with Sexuality, several more episodes.  

    1. We have the resilient Catholic community.  That community is about transformation, about preparing the way for love in our souls. It's about being together as Catholics on a journey, on a mission to really enter into an intimate personal relationship with Jesus Christ our brother, the Holy Spirit who is Love Himself and with our spiritual parents, God the Father and Mary our Mother.  It's about sharing our experiences in that journey on that mission.
  4.  
    1. Will do a bonus podcast -- community members -- to work with your manager parts around why it may be really threatening for you to work with sexual shame.  -- Those bonus podcasts come out on Tuesday, one day later, so this one will release on January 5.  

    1. Second Wednesday Zoom meeting for community members on January 13 from 7:30 PM to 8:45 PM Eastern time-- discussing shame and sexuality.  I will have some more things to share with you and then questions and discussion.  

    1. Get on the waiting list  soulsandhearts.com/rccd so you will get information before the general public does.  Those on the waiting list -- thank you for your patience, hoping to reopen the community in March, possibly April.  

    1. Can start by sharing these podcast -- spotify, apple podcasts, google play, amazon.  Share it on social media -- buttons are on our website at soulsandhearts.com/coronavirus-crisis  -- get your word out there, with your personal recommendation -- how these episodes have helped you.  Share them, let others know 

    1. You can reach out to me at 317.567.9594 or at crisis@soulsandhearts.com 

    1.  Patronness and Patron.
  10.  

What is Interior Integration for Catholics?

The mission of this podcast is the formation of your heart in love and for love, Together, we shore up the natural, human foundation for your spiritual formation as a Catholic. St. Thomas Aquinas asserts that without this inner unity, without this interior integration, without ordered self-love, you cannot enter loving union with God, your Blessed Mother, or your neighbor. Informed by Internal Family Systems approaches and grounded firmly in a Catholic understanding of the human person, this podcast brings you the best information, the illuminating stories, and the experiential exercises you need to become more whole in the natural realm. This restored human formation then frees you to better live out the three loves in the two Great Commandments – loving God, your neighbor, and yourself. Check out the Resilient Catholics Community which grew up around this podcast at https://www.soulsandhearts.com/rcc.