Josh: So just last night meta had their meta connect event where
Josh: they unveiled three new flagship devices at the
Josh: core of their ai hardware efforts the first
Josh: one called the ray-ban meta gen 2s they had the oakley meta vanguard and the
Josh: product that i think everyone's most excited about which is the meta ray-ban
Josh: display now basically what this is pair of glasses you put them on your face
Josh: and suddenly they have a display in one of the uh lenses that allows you to
Josh: see all the the compute overlaid on the real world.
Josh: So Ijaz, I want to talk about that first because that seems like the most exciting
Josh: thing. Can you walk us through what exactly was announced last night with these
Josh: cool new Meta Ray-Ban displays?
Ejaaz: So imagine a pair of fancy sunglasses, except it's AI.
Ejaaz: It has a high resolution display coupled with something called a metaneural wristband.
Ejaaz: So imagine like a wristband on your arm, something maybe akin to a Fitbit or
Ejaaz: a Whoop, And if you make any subtle gestures with your hand or your fingers,
Ejaaz: it controls the display that you're looking at through your glasses.
Ejaaz: And so you might be asking, well, what am I looking at through my glasses?
Ejaaz: Well, pretty much anything you can do with a phone. You can scroll text.
Ejaaz: You can reply to them. You can watch HD videos.
Ejaaz: You can take photos, edit photos, and send them to your friends all in real time.
Ejaaz: And if you're thinking, oh, this kind of sounds like Google Glass and we saw
Ejaaz: how that went, I'm afraid we've been brought into the 21st, maybe even the 22nd
Ejaaz: century here, where we have a full suite of apps.
Ejaaz: We have a 46 megapixel camera and we have almost 18 hours of runtime.
Ejaaz: But don't take my word for it. We have a video here demonstrated by none other
Ejaaz: than Mark Zuckerberg himself when he walked onto the stage with a live demo. Check this out.
Ejaaz: So for those who are listening, he's sitting in his trailer outside of the stage
Ejaaz: and he's wearing these glasses and a calendar event pops up,
Ejaaz: which says, hey, you've got your keynote now.
Ejaaz: So he's like, OK, I guess I need to go onto the stage.
Ejaaz: He selects a track because he wants to listen to some music whilst he walks
Ejaaz: onto stage. So he accesses his Spotify and he plays a song. I think it's called Enjoy the Ride.
Ejaaz: And the music is playing through headphones that are installed into the handles
Ejaaz: of these sunglasses. I know what you're thinking. You're thinking.
Ejaaz: This sounds obtrusive, right? I don't want people listening to my music on the train or whatever.
Ejaaz: It's isolated towards your own ears. So no one else hears it but you.
Ejaaz: It's a really remarkable attempt at a new form factor of technology where you
Ejaaz: can interact with different types of social media, music, or anything like that.
Ejaaz: What you can see on the screen now is he's chatting live with his friends in real time.
Ejaaz: He's saying, hey, I'm on my way. I'll be there in about 20 seconds.
Ejaaz: A friend replies saying, okay, cool.
Ejaaz: I'm over here. Sends him a photo of what he's seeing through his meta ray display bands.
Josh: It's all remarkably cool um before
Ejaaz: I go into the features josh i want to get your initial gut take is this cool
Ejaaz: to you or is this kind of novelty cringe.
Josh: So so throughout the presentation i feel like inside of me there were two wolves
Josh: there's like the techno optimist part of me that really wants this to be great
Josh: that wants to believe that this is very much the future this is here right now
Josh: these products are incredible and then there was like the more pragmatic,
Josh: realistic version who has been in the tech world for decades of time, who is just like,
Josh: oh my God, this is a toy.
Josh: This is not real. This is not a serious presentation.
Josh: This is like actually a joke. None of your demos work. Even the ones that do, the software is clunky.
Josh: The hardware is very much version one. And at times it felt like they were advertising
Josh: an action camera versus a real smart AI interface.
Josh: And that to me kind of rubbed me the wrong way. So I think in terms of wanting
Josh: progress, this is amazing.
Josh: I am very glad that they're building in public and they are doing this in a
Josh: way that is available to consumers starting September 30th for these glasses.
Josh: But also, it feels like it is so early and so half-baked that even if you gave
Josh: me one of these glasses for free, I would want to demo it, sure.
Josh: But I'm not sure I'd actually walk around and interface with my regular life with them on.
Josh: But there were some things that were really interesting. And I think throughout
Josh: this presentation, there were there were signs of life.
Josh: There were signs of hope that, OK, this very much is a new frontier that they're establishing.
Josh: There's a lot of potential here. There's a lot of technology that's built into
Josh: not only the glasses, but the wrist strap that we're going to talk about soon.
Josh: And that to me was the exciting part. It was more the promise of what we're
Josh: going to get versus what was revealed today.
Josh: And I'm wondering, Ijaz, you seemed pretty enthusiastic about it.
Josh: Did you have a different type of sentiment than me?
Ejaaz: Okay, so I went through the same rollercoaster that you did,
Ejaaz: which was incredibly pessimistic when a few of the demos that they tried to attempt live failed.
Ejaaz: And then I realized that what they were trying to achieve here,
Ejaaz: what they were trying to build was incredibly ambitious. And for a V1,
Ejaaz: this was actually pretty impressive.
Ejaaz: And I'll tell you why, right? My gut at the end of the presentation was,
Ejaaz: maybe this isn't the coolest V1, but for the price of $799, I would buy it.
Ejaaz: It has enough for me that I think it would be useful for me to at least try
Ejaaz: out and maybe see what it can do. You know what it reminded me of, Josh?
Josh: What's that?
Ejaaz: Do you remember Steve Jobs' keynote for the iPhone 4? I was like a little teenager.
Ejaaz: At that point but i remember him launching it and he did a live demo on stage
Ejaaz: i think it was demonstrating uh i think it was like some kind of like new camera
Ejaaz: feature and it flopped and,
Ejaaz: yeah safari and potentially facetime exactly and and
Ejaaz: it flopped in real time and that was because you
Ejaaz: know there was like wi-fi connections or whatever and that ended up being okay
Ejaaz: at the end of the day now i know this isn't v4 of these ray-ban uh glasses but
Ejaaz: i feel like it we can give it a little bit of room to to kind of grow um but
Ejaaz: the coolest part of these ai glasses josh,
Ejaaz: isn't actually the glasses to me it's the wristband i.
Josh: Think that is
Ejaaz: I i think that is super super cool um so to kind of dig into what the wristband
Ejaaz: does um for the viewers it's called an EMG neural band.
Ejaaz: It basically lets you scroll, pinch, or even write in the air,
Ejaaz: and it transcribes straight onto the display that you have within your glasses.
Ejaaz: And the reason why I think this is cool is this kind of like moves away from
Ejaaz: the Nintendo Wii controller to something that is a little more accessible to
Ejaaz: the average day-to-day person, something that is way more useful for someone.
Ejaaz: It is also a remarkable invention of technology.
Ejaaz: Josh, do you remember when we actually spoke about the research paper that Meta
Ejaaz: released of this neural band? I think it was like...
Ejaaz: It feels like a while ago, but
Ejaaz: I think it was literally only a month and a half, maybe two months ago.
Ejaaz: When we went through that paper on our show, it was remarkable how much detail
Ejaaz: and effort had gone into this.
Ejaaz: It's evident that Meta had been working on this for a number of different years,
Ejaaz: and Zuckerberg actually confirmed that on stage.
Ejaaz: But even the slightest of gestures can be picked up by this neural wristband,
Ejaaz: and it detects muscle movement.
Ejaaz: So it's not really kind of like checking your pulse or looking at any kind of
Ejaaz: sensory type of things. through your nerves.
Ejaaz: It's just muscle twitches. And you might be thinking, well, I might use my hand
Ejaaz: to do something else and it might cause the screen to do blah, blah, blah.
Ejaaz: It's incredibly intuitive, as we've seen from some of the demos that have been
Ejaaz: released so far. So that's the thing I'm most excited about, less so the glasses.
Josh: Yeah, same. So let's summarize. So basically, with these glasses,
Josh: you get two things, right?
Josh: You get the pair of wearable glasses, and then you also get this wrist strap, this EMG.
Josh: And the way these glasses compute and they connect to the world is through a tether with your phone.
Josh: So if your phone has connection, well, your glasses have connection as well.
Josh: The cool thing about the EMG sensor that you talked about, I kind of want to
Josh: walk through the technicals of it because I think a lot of people don't understand
Josh: the difference between an interface like the Apple Watch.
Josh: If you've used a new Apple Watch, it detects if you're pinching your fingers.
Josh: That's using muscular detection. It's not quite using the same technology that Matt is using today.
Josh: So EMG, it stands for electromyography, and the band works by using these surface
Josh: electromyography sensors to detect these tiny little electrical signals in your
Josh: muscle form, which is really cool.
Josh: So it contacts your skin, it detects the signals, and it processes it using
Josh: this machine learning algorithm to analyze the signals
Josh: Detect the subtle movements that allow you to interact with the actual device.
Josh: So I was watching a few demos of people using it.
Josh: A single tap with your pointer finger and your thumb is the select button.
Josh: And then a double tap with your middle finger and your thumb is the back button.
Josh: And you navigate the menus by actually moving your finger around your
Josh: hand and simulating the actual movement that the band then understands
Josh: and intuitively allows you to interact with the device with
Josh: so it's this really cool companion piece to
Josh: the glasses and i think in terms of of
Josh: this new frontier of computing the way that we
Josh: interact with it is really important like the last big one
Josh: we got was multi-touch and the way you interact with glass is actually
Josh: just with your fingers and it accepts multiple touches at once well the
Josh: way you interact with this like ar not that
Josh: these are ar glasses but this new like spatial world of computing
Josh: the the electro thing is like pretty freaking cool so that got me really excited
Josh: and i think that's the thing i want to test the most is how accurate it is and
Josh: kind of thinking about how much further they can push that because it feels
Josh: like this technology is certainly not limited to just navigating a simple menu
Josh: but there's a lot more here for them to unpack i
Ejaaz: Also want to bring it back to the glasses itself which is actually a pretty
Ejaaz: impressive invention in itself the amount of technology and compute that they're
Ejaaz: packed into what is essentially like something that is the weight of a couple of feathers is insane.
Ejaaz: So I've pulled up a few stats here, Josh, that I want to walk through because
Ejaaz: I know what a lot of people are thinking here, which was an initial thought that I had, which is,
Ejaaz: if I have a high resolution display over my eyes, how am I going to interact
Ejaaz: with the world? I'm going to walk into someone.
Ejaaz: I'm going to knock into something. They're going to be able to see what I'm
Ejaaz: seeing on my screen. That isn't actually the case.
Ejaaz: The 600 by 600 pixel resolution is only located in one of the lenses.
Ejaaz: So you can pretty much have about 85% of your view unobstructed.
Ejaaz: It's also a 20 degree field of view. So whereas you normally would see kind
Ejaaz: of like everything everywhere through a 180 perspective.
Ejaaz: This kind of like limits you in some sense, but gives you a wide enough angle
Ejaaz: such that you are aware of people that are walking around you,
Ejaaz: objects that are surrounding you, can interact with things in relative perspective.
Ejaaz: It has about 5,000 nits of brightness, which compared to the latest iPhone,
Ejaaz: which is around 3,000 nits, I believe, it's comparably larger, right?
Ejaaz: So this is no kind of meager effort or mediocre effort.
Ejaaz: This is high-grade, high-resolution technology for the new age, essentially.
Ejaaz: 2% light leakage. What this essentially means is for someone,
Ejaaz: Let's say I'm wearing the glasses right now, Josh, and you're looking at me and you're like,
Ejaaz: why there's some flashing lights in Ejaz's lenses, you actually won't see that
Ejaaz: at all because the light leakage just does not occur.
Ejaaz: It's all contained within these glasses, which is crazy because it's an open
Ejaaz: device, right? You can move the handles up and down.
Ejaaz: There are speakers on these handles. You would think otherwise,
Ejaaz: but it's super cool. And then they have microphones, speakers,
Ejaaz: and cameras, all the usual gizmos that you would get with your phone.
Josh: Yeah, so there's a lot of specs here. There's a lot of numbers.
Josh: I was really interested in the actual usability.
Josh: So late last night after the presentation, I kind of I went on X and I was scrolling
Josh: through and seeing videos of people actually using the device and the way it's
Josh: used seems pretty unique.
Josh: I think the the highlight features are the resolution is actually pretty good.
Josh: So when you are actually wearing the glasses it's not very pixelated because
Josh: of that 5000 nit display you can look everywhere but the sun and it will actually
Josh: show you a bright display so you don't have to worry about going outside or
Josh: being in direct sunlight and in fact the lenses are transition lenses so as
Josh: you go outside into brighter territory it may take a second to darken but once
Josh: it darkens the display will be very clear and obvious
Josh: so it seems like in terms of the actual user experience of the device it's pretty
Josh: good so long as you don't mind the limited functionality of the device and using
Josh: meta's ecosystem which we can probably talk about in a little bit but ijaz i
Josh: know we have a couple demos that we want to show or maybe the lack thereof demos
Josh: some worked some didn't which one are we going to start with here let's
Ejaaz: Uh let's start with the ones that actually worked.
Josh: Okay this one is cool I loved this one.
Ejaaz: Exactly, yeah. So one of the coolest features from the presentation was the
Ejaaz: fact that you could make subtle gestures for writing words on any kind of platform.
Ejaaz: In this example, it's Zuckerberg writing on a kind of like very conveniently
Ejaaz: placed pedestal, which is right next to him.
Ejaaz: And he's writing out words and it's appearing in actual text in his text chain
Ejaaz: or in his WhatsApp chat that he's having with someone live on stage.
Ejaaz: And this is all done live.
Ejaaz: So if you look at this video, So his hand is casually placed on this pedestal
Ejaaz: and he is just writing out words as if you would write in a notebook or a textbook,
Ejaaz: for example, and it appears live.
Ejaaz: On his screen in his WhatsApp chat. And then he clicks send.
Ejaaz: And what's interesting here is during this demo, he kind of makes the case that
Ejaaz: whilst you're talking to a human or whilst you're listening to a human,
Ejaaz: you might want to make notes.
Ejaaz: You might want to interact and have a conversation with someone else.
Ejaaz: And what he's suggesting is you can do this subtly because you can just use
Ejaaz: your hand and this EMG Neural Band.
Ejaaz: I don't know if I agree with that. I already get annoyed when people are wearing
Ejaaz: AirPods in real time when I'm having a conversation with them.
Ejaaz: I don't care if you're not listening to music.
Ejaaz: It's kind of disrespectful in my opinion.
Ejaaz: So I don't quite agree with that particular use case, but I think it's cool
Ejaaz: that I don't have to type out, that I don't have to whip out my phone and tap
Ejaaz: with my thumbs. I could just kind of make subtle gestures.
Josh: Yeah, this was one of the few things that it rubbed me a little bit the wrong way.
Josh: The first one being when he walked out and he kind of led the conference and
Josh: presentation with like, hey, this is the convergence of super intelligence and hardware.
Josh: And this is a very far cry from super intelligence and and
Josh: using the s word to lead the presentation it felt a little
Josh: disingenuous and not real this was the second one where okay you
Josh: have these glasses which it's bad enough that now if
Josh: anyone walks up to you with a pair of glasses the societal effects
Josh: of that will be a little awkward like hey am i being recorded uh like i know
Josh: even if you're not going to record it is meta recording and now am i going to
Josh: be part of meta's database but in addition during this demo he pitched it as
Josh: a multitasking device which i thought was really interesting to use the word
Josh: multitasking when you're already
Josh: going up against so much friction in this human-to-human interaction,
Josh: where now not only are you going to be
Josh: Maybe perhaps recording the person across from you, but now also kind of distracted
Josh: by this device on your face where now, oh, and not only am I barely listening
Josh: to you, but I'm looking at this display because when you look at the display,
Josh: your eyes kind of wander a little bit, you don't make direct eye contact.
Josh: And you're also like, oh, I'm also kind of writing on the side and I'm doing these things.
Josh: And he's kind of digging himself a deeper hole by pitching it as this multitasking
Josh: device, this intrusive device.
Josh: It's just, it doesn't really sit well with me in terms of how i
Josh: want to use it or how i would suggest other people use
Josh: it so i don't know the demos again a little weird
Josh: but the demo was great and one of the things that he
Josh: bragged about was i think he said it was 30 words per minute he was able
Josh: to achieve with the actual handwriting so it creates this cool thing where there's
Josh: this new acquired skill set you'll need to learn to engage with these devices
Josh: writing being one of them and i think that's that's a fun thing it's like okay
Josh: cool we have this like new tool we can learn how to use it learn how to optimize
Josh: it learn how to extracts more value out of it but yeah a little a little weird i
Ejaaz: Um i i just remembered that he announced a new feature with these glasses um
Ejaaz: which was conversation focus mode.
Josh: Which is antithetical
Ejaaz: To the case study that he's pitching on stage right now um for those of you
Ejaaz: who didn't catch it it's basically like a button or a gesture that you can make
Ejaaz: which um kind of like drowns out any other surrounding noise and amplifies the
Ejaaz: voice of the person that's speaking in front of you.
Ejaaz: So let's say you're in the room with me, Josh, and I'm speaking to you and you're
Ejaaz: like, whatever, two feet, three feet, whatever away from me.
Ejaaz: But we're in New York, there's a lot of traffic, there's a lot of construction.
Ejaaz: It drowns all of that out and your voice is amplified into my ear through the
Ejaaz: speakers in the handles.
Ejaaz: So it's kind of like this push and pull of like, what are you trying to achieve with these glasses?
Ejaaz: Is it multitasking or is it kind of focus or is it both it might work i don't know but i'm not
Ejaaz: convinced.
Josh: Yeah, you mentioned this earlier, the Steve Jobs demonstration.
Josh: I think growing up watching Steve do these presentations has permanently tarnished
Josh: all future presentations because they were really very, very focused.
Josh: You left with a very clear vision of the future. They delivered on a very clear value in the present.
Josh: And a lot of this presentation left me not only like feeling like it was kind
Josh: of like not a serious thing, but wondering where's all this going?
Josh: You're kind of seeing these small signs of life and small signs of this
Josh: AI convergence with hardware one of them being the demo
Josh: that you mentioned where it will actually pick up a voice and it will automatically amplify
Josh: that voice it's a smart feature but it's kind of pitched in
Josh: this weird convoluted confusing way where i'm not quite sure
Josh: what i would use it for today being someone who doesn't use meta's ecosystem
Josh: and i'm not quite sure what i'm going to use it for in the future because there
Josh: was really wasn't a clear vision of where it's going just like these things
Josh: are going to get better but i mean even if the voice amplification or the live
Josh: translation gets it's better, like, I still, it's not going to do it for me.
Josh: But there's another demo on screen. This wasn't the only demo that worked.
Josh: Here's the second one that worked.
Ejaaz: Yeah, yeah, it's a live translation feature. So for all my subtitle reader fans out here, I'm one of you.
Ejaaz: The ones who read the subs despite the movie being in your native language or
Ejaaz: in English or whatever it might be.
Ejaaz: This is the ideal feature for you. It is basically live subtitles as the person
Ejaaz: in front of you is speaking. So it appears on the high res display.
Ejaaz: So for those people who kind of like mumble or who talk quietly, no more.
Ejaaz: You'll understand anything and everything that they say in real time. It's pretty cool.
Ejaaz: I don't know if this is groundbreaking to me, but it was one of the few demos
Ejaaz: that actually worked. So we have to talk about it.
Josh: There was, there's an interesting thing where you could see how this would be
Josh: really cool for live translation in regards to like different languages.
Josh: We saw that recently with the Apple event. We saw it again with the Google event
Josh: where this live translation is becoming a cool thing.
Josh: So this particular example was English, which was left a little to be desired.
Josh: But I think the actual technology is pretty cool.
Josh: The latency, it appears like it was pretty quick. So it's almost real-time translation.
Josh: But again, it's like, okay, Do I want an $800 pair of glasses to amplify the
Josh: person I'm talking to and then give me subtitles?
Josh: It's like, I think these are a little uninspiring for the potential of this technology.
Ejaaz: And they should have demonstrated it with a different language.
Ejaaz: I looked up the features after this stream and apparently German and Portuguese
Ejaaz: is available for live translation.
Ejaaz: So why not demo that in the demo? It's just surprising.
Josh: And why only those two languages too? It's bizarre. yeah going
Ejaaz: Into uh yours maybe both of ours favorite topic the fail demos there were some
Ejaaz: there were some pretty pretty awkward fails um so.
Josh: I had i was looking at my notes i was
Josh: taking live notes last night as i was watching this and i have a line
Josh: in my notepad that says omg i can't believe
Josh: this is real and it was happening as this demo was going on this was i like
Josh: my my skin started to curl as i was watching this because it was so awkward
Josh: and i love that they did live demos and like i trust zuck and the fact that
Josh: like this this works sure but like my god that was tough to watch
Ejaaz: It was super tough. And you know why it was a double whammy?
Ejaaz: Okay, well, firstly, let me give you some context.
Ejaaz: For those who are listening on the screen here, we have Mark demoing a live
Ejaaz: video call that you can execute from these new glasses, except the call never went through.
Ejaaz: He got called maybe five times from the person that he was trying to demo with.
Ejaaz: And he was unable to pick up. He kept saying, answer the phone,
Ejaaz: or he would gesture with his hand to answer the call.
Ejaaz: And it just would not work. The reason why this is a double whammy is the app
Ejaaz: they were using was WhatsApp, which is their own feature as well.
Ejaaz: So it really wasn't a good demonstration of the technology or the app.
Ejaaz: Now, to kind of give them a bit of slack, there has been Wi-Fi issues that have
Ejaaz: failed live demos before, but you're meta.
Ejaaz: You spent $25 billion to acquire 100 of the best AI researchers.
Ejaaz: Can you spend a couple of that on maybe better Wi-Fi infrastructure?
Ejaaz: I'm not trying to shit on you. I'm just trying to make a valid point here.
Ejaaz: If you're going to live demo something that is a new form factor that is meant
Ejaaz: to kill the iPhone, you need to kind of like be on it.
Josh: Yeah, I think the the live demos I actually really admire and I appreciate the
Josh: fact they did it because Google or Apple recently has strayed away from them.
Josh: And I think it's just it's kind of gross. Do it in real time. Let's see that it works.
Josh: The thing for me is that even if all of the live demos worked fine,
Josh: like I actually don't care that they failed. I believe that they do work and
Josh: I believe that they work well.
Josh: But even if those features do work, I still don't really care.
Josh: I'm looking at him use the interface. I'm looking at him navigate around.
Josh: And I'm realizing, well, by signing up for these glasses, you're signing up
Josh: for the meta ecosystem. And that is a place where I have zero roots or zero
Josh: allegiance or zero interest in actually using.
Josh: I'm seeing him. He's using WhatsApp and he's using Facebook Messenger.
Josh: And that's where all these messages are kind of populating. And I'm like,
Josh: this is not a device for me. And how many people is this actually a device for?
Josh: It's funny. I don't have glasses. I don't wear glasses for this episode.
Josh: I found a pair and I put them on because I was like, well, what does it feel
Josh: like to actually wear glasses? Because I never do.
Josh: And it's just like, if I if I have to wear an $800 pair of bulky glasses that
Josh: I don't think looked that great just to translate some subtitles in a native
Josh: language that i already understand it's like okay like where where are the really
Josh: cool use cases that get me fired up they were mia
Ejaaz: Okay i'm gonna do two things now i'm going to uh give you some counter arguments
Ejaaz: so what do you just propose because i kind of disagree with a few things and
Ejaaz: then i'm gonna kind of kind of agree with a few things and give examples of
Ejaaz: where they actually succeeded in the Yeah, it's sick.
Ejaaz: What do you got? So firstly, remember when the airports first came out and people
Ejaaz: were like, oh, these kind of look weird. I like my wired headphones.
Ejaaz: Now everyone and their mom wears them, right?
Ejaaz: And the reason why is because they were just about cool enough to make it without
Ejaaz: looking like chunky metal blocks in your ear. I think the same is going to happen with glasses.
Ejaaz: And to be honest, if I look at the progression from Google Glass,
Ejaaz: which was this futuristic, cringe-looking thing, to where we are with these
Ejaaz: new Oakley and Meta Ray-Bans. I mean, it's literally in the name. It's Ray-Bans, right?
Ejaaz: Ray-Bans have been known for killing the sunglass game for decades now.
Ejaaz: I think we have a good shot at maybe producing a consumer wearable that anyone
Ejaaz: and everyone will be cool with wearing, right? The second thing is...
Ejaaz: I actually like the live demos, and I think at the end of the day,
Ejaaz: I'm still optimistic about it because I know Meta will probably work through the bugs.
Ejaaz: They're going to fix all of them, and it'll probably end up being a coherent, usable product.
Ejaaz: The other thing is it's affordable.
Ejaaz: Now, they didn't do the Apple thing where they were like, this is going to be
Ejaaz: thousands of dollars or whatever the premium pricing is for whoever at this point.
Ejaaz: It is something that is affordable, at least for most people in tech, to try out.
Ejaaz: And I think the audience that they're going after is, you know,
Ejaaz: these Gen Z kids, which want a MacBook, which want their iPhone,
Ejaaz: which want a bunch of different things.
Ejaaz: You know, they're willing to kind of spend this extra money to try this.
Ejaaz: Now, where I agree with you heavily is the ecosystem.
Ejaaz: Yeah, I don't use WhatsApp. It's just Instagram. So when I think about,
Ejaaz: you know, being plugged into Meta AI and the quality of their AI assistant,
Ejaaz: which I don't know about you, Josh, but I've never actually used to any length
Ejaaz: of time outside of experiments.
Josh: Yeah.
Ejaaz: I'm not convinced. This kind of feels like me using some low-grade AI assistant. Dare I say Siri?
Ejaaz: Shout out Apple. Sorry. But I don't think it's coherent or usable enough for
Ejaaz: me to be really invested in these gases.
Ejaaz: I think the object, the device is super cool,
Ejaaz: but i think the technology and software which at the end of the day is going
Ejaaz: to be the thing that scales it it's going to be the thing that puts the nail
Ejaaz: in the coffin to an iphone if that ever exists is still unproved and yet to
Ejaaz: be kind of built out um and i'm not quite seeing it with this release.
Josh: Yeah so there's two two points that you made that i want
Josh: to talk about because i think they're both interesting is is the google glass reference because
Josh: google glass came out in 2013 that's 12
Josh: years ago and a lot of the times when we're kind of
Josh: analyzing these companies we're looking at the rate of acceleration the
Josh: rate of improvement year over year as things gets better as a
Josh: way to kind of judge future returns so you just kind of assume
Josh: that they're on the flat part right now of the exponential curve but the
Josh: progress that is being made year over year is is really
Josh: marginal relative to what it should be where i can
Josh: see the same presentation happening four years in advance with
Josh: kind of like iphone level incrementation like oh now the camera instead
Josh: of 3k it's 4k oh it has a wider field of view oh it
Josh: has double the pixel count in the displays and it still doesn't change
Josh: the fact that it's not an interesting product because it doesn't have the software ecosystem
Josh: to back it up and then the second thing was on price which is eight hundred
Josh: dollars you said it's like pretty affordable for what you're getting it's like
Josh: you're getting these cool glasses with this display you're getting the wrist
Josh: strap but he just do you not think that's subsidized in an attempt to gain users
Josh: early before other companies release actually good hardware and
Josh: I just bought, Apple has the Apple Watch Ultra. It drops tomorrow on Friday.
Josh: And I paid $800 for a watch, just a single wrist strap.
Josh: And yeah, it's made of titanium and has the cool chips, but it costs $800.
Josh: And that is from Apple, who has a very well-established supply chain and manufacturing
Josh: capabilities and prices at reasonable margins because they have a lot of competition.
Josh: So for Meta to price a device this compelling in terms of frontier technology,
Josh: I strongly suspect there's no way, including all the R&D costs and everything
Josh: it took to get this thing out the door, that it really costs less than $800.
Josh: This device absolutely costs more than $800. They have the wrist strap. They have the glasses.
Josh: It's like, I very strongly suspect that they are subsidizing the price in order
Josh: to gain users to sync them more into the ecosystem before, I mean,
Josh: like I said earlier, before other companies actually make good products.
Josh: If Apple released a pair of glasses that were even marginally close to this,
Josh: I would spend twice as much.
Josh: Even if Google did, I would probably spend a lot more because Google makes good hardware products.
Josh: The reality is meta this is just like it's a mediocre hardware product
Josh: and they're probably doing all they can to gain gain uses early which is like
Josh: maybe a hot take in terms of the mediocrity because i mean again i don't want
Josh: to judge it without using it because we haven't used it and all the people who've
Josh: tried it said it's remarkable it's really cool so i think we should probably
Josh: reserve final judgment until we hit the demo but just based on first impressions
Josh: it's like okay this is probably their strategy let
Ejaaz: Me steel man um what mess his argument might be.
Josh: Right uh so what
Ejaaz: So what? They haven't been in the hardware game meaningfully.
Ejaaz: Yeah, they acquired Oculus and they've gone down the AR, VR route.
Ejaaz: But this is the first, I mean, correct me if I'm wrong, like homegrown product.
Ejaaz: Like they have been working on this neural wristband for years now.
Ejaaz: And it's their first kind of foray into a new form factor by far, right?
Josh: So maybe pricing it at
Ejaaz: A cheap enough point where the hardware is kind of gimmicky but good enough
Ejaaz: is good enough to get a distribution to a loyal fan base, of which they already
Ejaaz: have tons of online users, right?
Ejaaz: And then number two, I'm thinking maybe this is a problem that solves itself
Ejaaz: just by chucking money at it from the manufacturing perspective.
Ejaaz: That might be a super, super naive take, but I'm guessing that that might be
Ejaaz: a strategy that Zuck has thought about.
Ejaaz: And we might end up seeing a bunch of infrastructure or hardware manufacturing
Ejaaz: supply chain partnerships over the next couple of months. remains to be seen.
Ejaaz: Now, if I'm to look at your point around Apple, I would say that not only would
Ejaaz: people pay $800 or maybe even double that for the new watch,
Ejaaz: it's because you have ecosystem lock-in.
Ejaaz: It's because the software experience and the app experience is so damn good.
Ejaaz: And that's kind of Apple's leverage at this point. It's this kind of like coherent
Ejaaz: system where if they released an AI hardware product tomorrow, I'm there.
Ejaaz: I'm buying it. All my friends are using the Apple ecosystem anyway, right?
Ejaaz: So I'm still an Apple fanboy, and the meta AI stuff kind of icks me,
Ejaaz: but I can appreciate the attempt that they're going for.
Ejaaz: And if they have even one, Josh, okay, imagine this, just one novel use case that goes viral.
Ejaaz: And let me make a guess at what that might be. Please. Okay.
Ejaaz: Um it is going to be some form of
Ejaaz: streaming streaming content is becoming super popular
Ejaaz: amongst the gen z sports people social media
Ejaaz: is everywhere if i can stream a video or stream
Ejaaz: my life in general clip the cool clips post it on my social media it goes viral
Ejaaz: that might be good enough to sway me to use it now are all demographics of people
Ejaaz: using this probably not are you going to walk into your wall street job with
Ejaaz: these glasses on and stare at the charts,
Ejaaz: maybe 10 years from now, but certainly not now, right?
Ejaaz: I feel like this appeals to maybe a younger audience. That might be why Zuck
Ejaaz: is wearing gold chains every now and then.
Ejaaz: But I feel like that's the that's the demographic that he's going for.
Ejaaz: Kind of like Gen Z teenagers, social content people.
Josh: Yeah, we're not even talking about the outfits he walked out on stage.
Josh: We'll save that for later.
Josh: There was like two more things, I guess. One is the AI that runs locally on the device.
Josh: I'm unsure, EJ, if there is much of it. Like I'm very
Josh: interested in the intelligence because he led with that super intelligence line
Josh: he used the s word um but the intelligence seemed pretty rudimentary it was
Josh: kind of like they showed a demo where they were in a surf shop and you look
Josh: at a surfboard and they're like oh here's an email that you talked about a surfboard
Josh: and it feels kind of like what what i would imagine siri and apple intelligence
Josh: would be which is bad um but
Josh: moderately helpful um and then also there was
Josh: other things we probably should round this out with the rest of the stuff that
Josh: was announced during the presentation because it wasn't just this one
Josh: set of glasses there was a few things we could kind of speed run
Josh: through them if you'd like um the first
Josh: one oh here we are yes the oakley meta vanguard glasses so prior to making this
Josh: big announcement of the displays they released a few glasses and to me this
Josh: felt like so i love photography videography camera stuff this felt like i was
Josh: watching a gopro announcement it was an action camera they partnered with red
Josh: bull to do a promo video uh it's like it feels like a
Josh: Really bizarre anomaly for a company like meta who's
Josh: going for agi to drop an action camera attached to glasses um
Josh: friend of the pod host of the pod david hoffman
Josh: he messaged us he said i'm getting a pair of these this is
Josh: my pair david loves climbing he loves i
Josh: mean presumably recording the climbing and uses a bulky gopro setup
Josh: so this is cool for people like that a few
Josh: specs on these glasses because there was some interesting noteworthy
Josh: things for these um they're targeted at athletes first
Josh: sport specific glasses they are ip67 rated which means they're dust resistant
Josh: and water resistant you can wear them get them wet drop them in water they have
Josh: a 12 megapixel camera 122 field of view 122 degree field of view which is pretty
Josh: wide for a lot of people who aren't familiar with that uh the battery lasts
Josh: up to nine hours and it captures 3k video for
Josh: 499 so the 3k video i thought was funny um
Josh: it's like okay why like it's like people don't call 2k video 2k at just 1080p
Josh: because it's 1920 by 1080 and for 4k it's like 38 60 by 2010 uh so like the
Josh: 3k is just interesting marketing i guess it sounds cool i
Ejaaz: Don't think i've ever heard anyone market it at 3k before.
Josh: Yeah because like no like you do 1080p or 4k like you're just doing this weird
Josh: incremental thing that i don't love but whatever um but the glasses i mean here
Josh: they are they look interesting it's like my past self who was playing baseball
Josh: games in the outfield i'd love this i can get some live content and be catching
Josh: a fly ball but i'm not sure what
Ejaaz: Do you think of the camera smack bang in the center.
Josh: So look at this this is like this was not a
Josh: serious presentation like it really like i
Josh: don't know how what is this
Josh: but like this was a presentation that needed to be made in
Josh: two or three years this is like not a presentation that should have been made
Josh: today and what we're seeing is just like this is not i mean it's a cute little
Josh: action camera from a god knows how many hundreds of billions of dollars of r&d
Josh: budget so like okay cool they also did this not just with oakley but with uh
Josh: the ray-bans as well they released the ray-ban metagen twos which are like those
Josh: trademarked yeah here they are those like trademarked glasses you see everywhere
Josh: these look a little more compelling because they're just a little bit smaller
Josh: um these start a little bit cheaper at 379 but again like okay they'll talk
Josh: to you and you can kind of ask you questions there's no display integrated in
Josh: them it's like it's a little bit better than the last generation um and that
Josh: was that was it for the hardware there was three glasses one wrist strap and a lot of um
Josh: enthusiasm and open-ended questions i
Ejaaz: Have a question for you josh yes before we round up and this is a very important
Ejaaz: question so think about it are glasses the final form factor for AI consumer devices?
Josh: No, I don't think so. I think the final form isn't a single form.
Josh: And I think this is something that is going to take a while to train people's
Josh: brains because we've become so accustomed to relying on single devices like
Josh: our iPhone to do everything.
Josh: One of the benefits of AI that we get is a lot of context that is distributed across devices.
Josh: So if you think of like EJazz as being a singular profile that exists in the cloud,
Josh: that profile is it can be secured and it
Josh: can be full of context and it can be uniquely you and that
Josh: profile can be carried to a stream of devices that isn't one singular iphone
Josh: so in the case of this new frontier there's new types of form factors glasses
Josh: are absolutely not final form because there is no way in hell i'm going to be
Josh: wearing a pair of glasses to like a private dinner and chatting with people
Josh: and just letting it like it's just not it's too intrusive
Josh: To have a series, a suite of devices, you have your phone, you have a display
Josh: on the wall, you have glasses on your face, you have smart AI in your earbuds,
Josh: you have a little puck on your desk.
Josh: I think the future form factor is really varied.
Josh: It exists in a lot of different forms, but it uses this one type of intelligence,
Josh: which is AI, this context window.
Josh: And the term that people are using for that is ambient AI, ambient intelligence.
Josh: It just kind of exists in devices around you. it's very portable it's very modular
Josh: but it's not locked into a singular device so while i think glasses are part
Josh: of that ecosystem i do not like think they are the the single form that will
Josh: lead the way in terms of replacing something like an iphone
Ejaaz: Agreed it won't be the ultimate form i think the ultimate form of you and i
Ejaaz: probably both agree here it will be some form of like chip in the brain and
Ejaaz: the projection of display will be on our actual eyelids eyelids on our actual eye lens on.
Josh: Your neural cortex forget the
Ejaaz: Eyeballs those are lame okay there you
Ejaaz: go so so we have basically an ai brain um
Ejaaz: that does all the cool functions for us but that's
Ejaaz: gonna take decades like you said so in the
Ejaaz: intermediary what do you think is the new cell
Ejaaz: phone moment it could it be glasses or
Ejaaz: is it uh the puck like device that we
Ejaaz: discussed in the past i'll give you i'll give you my take yeah let's hear it
Ejaaz: i think i think glasses is a fantastic step in the right direction and i think
Ejaaz: it'll be one if not the only intermediary device that's going to work at least
Ejaaz: for the next decade and and here's my reasoning.
Ejaaz: You need something visual that you kind of can wear, but doesn't bother you too much.
Ejaaz: I think AirPods demonstrated that we're okay doing that with one form of medium,
Ejaaz: which is music and listening and calls, that part of our social life.
Ejaaz: But visual never really got kind of upgraded from staring at a metal slab and
Ejaaz: having to pick it up, having to go to a bigger metal slab.
Ejaaz: I'm gesturing to my laptop that's in front of me.
Ejaaz: It's kind of clunky. So I feel like something that follows me everywhere.
Ejaaz: Yeah, glasses kind of seem annoying, but I don't know.
Ejaaz: If you can do it in a way where my vision isn't impaired too much,
Ejaaz: where there's no like crazy filter or colored filter, I could wear it. Just make me look cool.
Ejaaz: And I could wear it. That sounds good, right?
Ejaaz: The other thing is last week, we spoke about Apple's new iPhone Air.
Ejaaz: I have mine arriving tomorrow.
Josh: I cannot wait. We're both getting new phones tomorrow. Let's go.
Ejaaz: We're both getting new phones and it's actually both of the different
Ejaaz: models so we can demonstrate that live but the amazing
Ejaaz: um part of the iphone air
Ejaaz: is the entire computer chips everything aside
Ejaaz: from the battery was contained in just the camera slot where you would normally
Ejaaz: see on your phone so like it's it's just in this tiny square for those of you
Ejaaz: looking at this screen i'm holding up an iphone and the camera part of it the
Ejaaz: plateau right um that suggests to me that they are also heading towards a world
Ejaaz: where they're going to release some kind of small device,
Ejaaz: most likely a wearable or something that you can wear on you that will do something
Ejaaz: similar to what these glasses are doing.
Ejaaz: It kind of indicates that glasses might be the thing. I might be getting ahead
Ejaaz: of my skis on this one, but I think it's the ideal form factor for the next day.
Josh: I've spent a lot of time thinking about it, and the mistake that I caught myself
Josh: making was thinking that there will be another iPhone.
Josh: And I really, I genuinely don't believe there will be another iPhone.
Josh: It is the singular moment in history that will not be replicated because the
Josh: future technology does not enable it to happen.
Josh: The glasses are awesome, and I very strongly agree that everyone's working on
Josh: them and everyone will be wearing them.
Josh: But it is part of a larger ecosystem that kind of exists in this ambient space
Josh: versus a singular device.
Josh: And I think that's what Meta is going for. I mean, that's why they changed their
Josh: entire name from Facebook to Meta.
Josh: They are building these devices for a metaverse, for a reality that exists multimodal.
Josh: It exists in this like meat space that we're in today, but also in an overlaid
Josh: world that is littered with virtual and digital avatars and worlds.
Josh: So that's kind of where we land with Meta.
Josh: It's like, OK, cool today. Ejaz, are you getting you're getting a pair?
Ejaaz: I'm going to get a pair. And I just want to point out, Josh,
Ejaaz: you're still wearing the glasses that you were demonstrating earlier.
Ejaaz: So I'm just saying, I'm just saying maybe you may not care about it.
Josh: They're comfortable. I can see why people wear these all day,
Josh: even if they don't have a choice.
Ejaaz: But these glasses come out on the 30th of September.
Ejaaz: They are priced at $799, which is for the fancy new thing, the one that comes
Ejaaz: with the neural wristband.
Ejaaz: So you're getting two devices for a singular price of $799.
Ejaaz: And if that's still out of your price range, you can get the Oakleys at $499
Ejaaz: and the Ray-Ban Gen 2s at, I think it was $345.
Ejaaz: Something like that. $379? Okay.
Ejaaz: So, so much, much cheaper than the Apple ecosystem, but you know,
Ejaaz: they come out on September 30th for the, for the new ones.
Josh: We were yapping today. We're at 45 minutes long. If you made it to the end,
Josh: thank you for sticking with us.
Josh: Guys, the comment section and the reaction to some of our most recent episodes have been insane.
Josh: You got like, whoever's been sticking to the end, whoever's been sending comments
Josh: and messages, it's been so generous.
Josh: And I woke up this morning and I messaged Ejaz, like just to go look at it because
Josh: it was really, it's, it's so special.
Josh: So we appreciate you not only sticking to the end of a 45 minute rant about
Josh: the new frontier of this meta hardware technology, but also just engaging with
Josh: all the content. You got a bunch of new subscribers.
Josh: We have a bunch of comments like, thank you. We are so excited to wake up and
Josh: record these episodes. We have so many more coming down the pipeline.
Josh: And yeah, just appreciate you sticking with us. So again, as always,
Josh: if you enjoyed, share with your friends. Any parting words, Ejaz,
Josh: anything to leave the people with?
Ejaaz: Leave more comments. Buy these glasses. Or will you not buy these glasses?
Ejaaz: Tell us if you're not going to buy these glasses.
Ejaaz: Tell us why it's not cool. Tell us why it's impractical or tell us why it's
Ejaaz: the next best thing. We don't know.
Josh: We want to hear from you. Yeah, prove me wrong. Tell me why it's sick.
Josh: And like, I didn't waste an hour of my time last night. I'm kidding, I'm kidding.
Ejaaz: It was cool, it was cool.
Josh: Technooptimist, keep shipping in public.
Ejaaz: We weren't going to do anything anyway last night, Josh, we're nerds.
Josh: That's so true, that's so true. But yeah, pro team Zuck, keep shipping,
Josh: keep spending those billions of dollars. We are building a brighter future.
Josh: So as always, thank you for watching. We appreciate it. And we'll see you.
Music: Music