Intro: Even our lungs need a sense of purpose.
Let Me Run This By You: Boz is buying a house!
Interview: We talk to actor and documentary filmmaker
Cullen Douglas about
AMDA,
Florida School of the Arts,
Southeastern Theatre Conference,
Tyne Daly, character actors,
Jason Priestly, Patricia Crotty,
Our Town,
Lenny Bruce,
Dick Van Dyke,
investigative journalism, reusing caskets, David Carr,
Deadwood, playing Bilbo Baggins, being pen pals with
Andrea McCardle, singing If I Were A Rich Man,
The Pirates of Penzance, B
ye Bye Birdie,
Robert Sean Leonard,
Billy Flanigan: The Happiest Man on Earth,
Shonda Rhimes,
Twin Peaks,
Grey's Anatomy ,
Barry,
Bill Hader, documentary filmmaking,
The Humanitas Prize,
Private Practice.
FULL TRANSCRIPT (Unedited): 1 (8s):
I'm Jen Bosworth Ruez.
2 (10s):
And I'm Gina Paci.
1 (11s):
We went to theater school together. We survived it, but we didn't quite understand it.
2 (15s):
20 years later, we're digging deep talking to our guests about their experiences and trying to make sense of
1 (20s):
It all. We survived theater school and you will too. Are we famous yet?
3 (33s):
TikTok and I started looking at the videos and I was like, Ooh, I don't know about this. I think I need to start wearing wake up. So thank you. You
1 (43s):
Look gorgeous. How are
3 (43s):
You doing?
1 (44s):
Yeah, hi. I'm finally, Many things are happening. Many things are happening. So I finally, even though I'm coughing still little, I finally feel like I am, I like kicked the pneumonia bronchitis situation and little mostly thank you. I, yeah, I, we went away and then to Ventura and I slash Ojai and I really rested and I really, there was one day I worked, but I really mostly rested and I just really was like, okay, I need actual ass downtime. And yeah.
1 (1m 25s):
And then I started to heal and I was also on praise God for antibiotics. And then the thing that really helped me really kick it was I hadn't exercised my lungs in a really long time at all because I was so sick that I just was like, Who wants to like walk or, and, and it was 107 degrees, so it's like, who wants to exercise in that? So my cousin, my sister came in town, I, that's like a big eyebrow raise for, to drop my niece off to college. And we went on a hike to Griffith, but like a sloping hike, not a crazy hike. And I was like, I don't think I'm gonna be able to do it.
1 (2m 5s):
And it actually helped my lungs to like feel like they were contributing to fucking something and me like Forgot I
3 (2m 16s):
Like a sense of purpose. Right,
1 (2m 17s):
Right. And also like to, yeah, to have a job. And they were like, like to be exercised and I was like, Oh, I forgot that. Like the lungs. And, and it's interesting in this whole covid situation, like the lungs need to work too. And I never understood in hospitals, cuz I spent quite a long time in them, why they have those breathing like tube things that you blow the ball and the ball floats up. You have to, I thought that was so dumb until I had bronchitis and pneumonia and I was like, Oh, they have to work. Like they have to be expanded. If you don't use them and work them, they get, it's not good when,
3 (2m 58s):
When my dad, you know, my dad had this really bad car accident when I was like nine years old and yeah, he rolled 40 times and he wasn't wearing a seatbelt, which saved his life because he was in a convertible. But of course the reason he got into the accident was because he was drinking anyway. He broke everything. Like he broke six ribs and he had one of, he had to spend one year lying on an egg crate mattress on the floor one year. And for the rest of his life, every time he sneezed or coughed it hurt his ribs. But he,
1 (3m 34s):
Oh, and he
3 (3m 36s):
Had one of of those things like you're talking about. And as a child I could not get it to the height that I was supposed to go. I shuder to think what it would be like right now. Yes. So you're, that was a good reminder to exercise our lungs. I make sure my breathing capacity is good
1 (3m 54s):
And, and, and even wait and, and it's like, I always literally thought, oh, you exercise to be skinny. That is the only, only reason no other, like, if you had asked me, I'd say, Oh, there's no other reason. What are you talking about? But now I'm like, oh, these parts of us need actual exercising. Literally lie. I just, it blew my mind.
3 (4m 19s):
I was lies
1 (4m 21s):
The lies.
3 (4m 22s):
It's endless. Yes.
1 (4m 27s):
Hey, let me run this by you. Oh, I think we're buying a house. What? This is the craziest Oh my not in, Yeah. Okay. This is what went down. So this is so crazy. Miles' job stuff has evened out in terms of like, there's just so much going on that I can't talk about, but which is makes for terrible radio, but podcasting. But anyway, the point is we're we're a little stable, so we went to Ventura and I was like, I fucking love this town. I love Ventura. It's an hour away. It's a weird like, think lost boys, right? Like Lost Boys. The movie is, is really Santa Cruzi, but like, that's what this town reminded of.
1 (5m 9s):
It's not, so it's Adventurer county, so it's like an hour northwest. It's on the beach. And I was like, I love this town. I I I love it here. There's so many brown folk. It's heavily, heavily you Latina. And it's like, so anyway, I was like, I love it, but I bet I can't afford it like anywhere in California. Well it turns out that Ventura is about 500,000 less on a house than la. So I was like, wait, what? So we saw this darling house that was, that is was small but like beautiful craftsman and you know, I'll just say I'll be totally transparent with $729,000, which is still a shit ton of money.
1 (5m 49s):
But I looked at the same exact property almost in, in, in Pasadena for 1.3 million for two bedroom, one bath. Yeah. Two bedroom, one bath got preapproved. I've never been preapproved for anything in my goddamn light. We got preapproved for a mortgage. I couldn't, Gina, I couldn't. But when we got the preapproval letter, like I literally, speaking of lies, I was like, okay, well just expect him to come back and say we can't do anything for you.
3 (6m 17s):
Yeah, right.
1 (6m 19s):
Just really know it's not gonna work. And he wrote back and was like, Here's what we can do on this house the mortgage wise and it's comparable. It's in the ballpark of what we're paying in rent. And I was like, I don't wanna be going into my middle aged and later years in no space.
3 (6m 39s):
It really takes a toll. It really takes a toll on your psyche in a way that you can't really account for until you go from no space to having space. And then you go, oh my gosh, there's these three specific muscles in my shoulders that have been tense for the entire time I've been living in a city, you know, decades in some
1 (6m 56s):
Cases. So it's a whole different, I could build a little studio, like all the things. So yeah. So I'm grateful. Never would occur to me, never would have occurred to me. Never.
3 (7m 6s):
Do you care to say anything about your sister's visit?
1 (7m 10s):
Well, you know what is yes. And what is so comforting to me again, you know, if you listen to this podcast you're like, Oh my god, Jen, shut up. But about the truth. Okay. The truth is the fucking truth of, and even, even if it changes from person to person, that person's truth is the truth. And my truth is, I feel, So she came and she stayed not with me because I just, that what we were outta town. And then she stayed in my house while we were gone, which was fine with her, with my niece for one night. And then I saw her one day and that was, that was fine. And then she stayed with my cousin and it was, let's just say it was very, the, for me, my experience was, oh, someone else besides me sees the challenges.
1 (7m 60s):
And that's what I will say about that. There is something about being witnessed and having someone else go. I see, I feel what you're talking about.
3 (8m 11s):
Yes. Oh, I, I relate very deeply to that because people who are good at
1 (8m 19s):
Image image management,
3 (8m 22s):
At image management, a term I like is apparent competent.
1 (8m 26s):
Oh yes. Oh yes. I love that. I've never heard that. Apparent, competent. That is it.
3 (8m 30s):
Yes. Many, many people in life are apparently competent because all of their energy and effort goes into projecting very much just that idea and to be at home with them is a completely different thing. And I'm not saying like, Oh, you should always be competent in all areas of life or that I'm competent in all areas of life. I'm just saying like, yeah, there, there are some, some forms of personality disorders and just like, not even that, but just interpersonal problems are so kind of covert. And they're so, because I feel like people say, I feel like people are always trying to look for like the most broad, you know, big actions to determine whether somebody is
1 (9m 13s):
Whatever, nurse, whatever. They haven't been hospitalized, they've never been in rehab, they still have a house. You're like,
3 (9m 20s):
What? It's the same kind of mentality that says if you're not like in the gutter with a, with a mad dog in a paper bag that you're not an alcoholic, you know, it completely ignores probably what 85% of alcoholic for, which is highly functioning Correct. People who don't miss work and Correct. You know, maybe even people in their lives would never, ever know that they had a drinking problem. So yeah. So that is validating. I'm happy that for you, that you had that experience and sometimes it takes like 20, 30 years to get that validation. But the truth always, I mean, you know, it's true. That's the thing. It comes to the surface eventually.
1 (9m 56s):
Well, and the other thing is, I now as where I used to be so afraid of the truth and I still am, look, I I don't like getting, we know this about me, my feedback is hard for me. I'm scared of all the things, but I used to run from the truth like nobody's business in my own ways. Now I sort of clinging to it as, wait a second, wait a second, what is the truth of the matter? Like what are the facts here? Because I feel like that is the only way for me to not get kaka go, go crazy. And it is comforting. I am comforted in knowing that. Like, it was interesting. So I also am taking a solo show, writing class, I'm writing a new solo show, my third one.
1 (10m 41s):
And I'm just started and I thought, let me take a class with the woman who I taught. I did the first one in oh four in LA with, anyway, but I was saying on Facebook, like I, I, I'm taking this class with Terry and she's magic and I'm so glad I'm doing it and da da da. And she was like, Hey, I have a question for you. Can I quote you? And I was like, Yes. Because in her, in her like, for a and I said, of course it's all true. Like I didn't have to worry that my quote was somehow dirty or misleading or like, not really what I felt like I've done that so much in my life in the past where I've been like, oh shit, I told them I loved them or I loved their stuff, or I loved and I feel inside totally incongruent with that kind of thing.
1 (11m 30s):
No, I was like, no, these are what, these are my words now. I try to, it doesn't always work, but I try to just be like, okay, like what is the truth? And if someone had to quote me, would I be okay? And I, and I am a lot of the time I was like, of course you can. It's what I, I'm thanking for asking, but also it's what I feel in my bones about that, that you, that you have a magic when it comes to solo show teaching. That's it, it that is the truth. That my,
3 (11m 55s):
That is so cool. It's cool that you're doing that and I'll, that it, that gave me a reminder I had wanted to say on this podcast because you know, we had Jeremy Owens on the podcast. Yes. And he recently put on his social that he, he was doing it kind of as a joke, but I think he's actually doing it now, which is doing another solo show. And I had messaged him to say, you know, I meant what I said when I told you that you should do this and that I would help you and that goes for anybody cuz I said, I've said that to a lot of people on this podcast. Like, if you need help, you know, if this conversation has reinspired in you, a desire to go and do this other creative thing, please, I'm not saying like, I'm gonna co-write it with you.
3 (12m 37s):
I'm saying like, let me know if there's something I can do, if I can read it or, or, or bounce it off of you so that that stands for any of our previous guests. But tell us more about what, what's it gonna be about, what are you gonna be talking about? Well,
1 (12m 51s):
I don't entirely know, but where I'm leading is, it was interesting in this, See the thing I forgot means is that I like writing exercises. I never do them on my own. I never do. So this, she does writing exercises and a meditation before and I really longed and craved that because I spend so much of my hustle these days. How can I bring in income? How can I advance my career in Hollywood? And that is really shuts down the play aspect of all things. And I'm not saying, you know, I'm not saying that you, that I I'm not saying it's bad. All I'm saying is it totally eliminates for me the create like the really raw fun play creativity.
1 (13m 37s):
Okay? So in this, in this class, I just took it like, I just took the class. I was like, I'll do it. It's a masterclass in solo work, I'll do it. I like her. She called me, I was on the freeway and I was like, I'll do it. So right now the working title is, and also a solo show more or less. And I don't know if that's gonna change, but it is. Like I, and, and then in the exercise we did, we had our first class Sunday, it was all about, I realized that this solo show needs to be for me more of a call to action that that we, the, and it really comes from something you said, which is, I'm paraphrasing, but it's like we are our only hope, which is the good news and the bad news.
1 (14m 25s):
So like you said, we are the problem, I am the problem. Which is great. And also the, you know, terrible. So that is sort of this solo show is more gonna be about, it's like more activism based, but in a like creative arts activism way and, and not just a funny antidotes about my wacky family. And I mean, I would argue we could argue that like that my last solo show did have that underneath. But I think there needs to be a more like call to action for artists and people like us to start doing the things in the arts world that are gonna like help save the planet. And I don't know what that means yet, but she was like, oh this is like more of an activism piece based on what you're like it has that component to it.
1 (15m 11s):
And I was like, yeah. And then she said, if there was a banner, we did these cool exercise, she said, there's a banner all over town, whatever town you're in advertising your show, what would it say? And what came to mind in the meditation was it would be a red banner and it would just say, and it would say hope. And then in parentheses it would say sort of, So what I realized is I'm obsessed with the parentheses, like that's where I live. So I live in the world of I love my life parentheses, it's a fucking nightmare. So I love that kind of thing in my writing. And so I was like, okay, I'm really gonna embrace that. So it's like, it's like that, that stuff, I don't know where it's gonna go. I don't know what it's gonna happen.
3 (15m 52s):
Well two things. One is you have actually thrown out quite a few excellent titles for show, for solo shows. You'll periodically be like, that's the title of my new book or that's the title of my next, my next solo show. Yeah. So you might have to give a little re-listen to some episodes. I wish I could tell you which
1 (16m 11s):
I will.
3 (16m 12s):
Okay. The other thing is something that just came up for me when you said about the parenthesis, which I know exactly what you're talking about. I was saying like, oh yeah, she wants to show the good, the bad and the ugly. Oh. And something that occurred to me was like this concept of underbelly. Like you're showing yes, your soft underbelly. We are, I mean when I think when a person is maturing into themselves, that's what, that's the goal is to get to first accepting your own soft underbelly and then also contending with it and then representing it to the world. Because the thing that I've been on recently is like I have done myself and nobody else any favors for the amount of time I've spent misrepresenting myself because my misrepresenting myself has all been based on the lie that I thought there is a person that you are supposed to be, and your job is to be that person and you know, instead of like figure out the person that you are.
3 (17m 10s):
So, you know, coming into your own power is, is is a lot what we spend, what I spent my thirties about, like coming into your own power and not say that I arrived at it, but that No,
1 (17m 23s):
But
3 (17m 24s):
You about that. And then I think my forties are more about coming into my own vulnerability and that both of those things are really two sides of the same coin. Your power and your vulnerability, right? Because you can't have any power unless you're being honest about, you know, what the situation is. Today we are talking to Colin Douglas. Colin Douglas is an actor, writer, director, and documentary filmmaker who has been on absolutely everything. Most recently you've seen him on Barry and I love that for you.
3 (18m 4s):
But he's been, I joke in the, in our interview that he's been an absolutely every television show ever made. And that's only a slight exaggeration. He's been on Grey's Anatomy and Private Practice and the 2017 revival of Twin Peaks Agents of Shield, Pure genius. He's just been on everything Deadwood. So he's very experienced, he's very wise and he's very warm. So I hope you enjoy our conversation with Colin Douglas.
0 (18m 34s):
Great.
3 (18m 36s):
So congratulations Colin Douglas, you survived theater school. You survived
4 (18m 42s):
Two
3 (18m 42s):
Theater schools as a matter of fact.
4 (18m 45s):
I did. I was a glut for punishment actually. Yes. I I couldn't get enough of it.
3 (18m 50s):
So it was a BFA and MFA both in acting?
4 (18m 54s):
No, you know what, it was a zero degree. I, I am still just kind of riding by the seat of my pants. I actually, when I attended amda, it was not a degree program yet. Now it is. But back in the day it was basically they just kind of said, okay, go audition. And then when I went to Florida School, the arts, it only had an AA degree and I literally am still to this day two credit shy of my degree because I had booked a job out of Sctc and it was gonna be starting and I was like, I'm not sitting around and getting my degree just so that I can go get a job.
4 (19m 42s):
So I went, I took the job and I never looked back.
1 (19m 45s):
I mean that is, here's, I was just talking to someone who went to the theater school last night, my friend Lindsay. And we were talking about how conservatory I wish, I wish that I had done things differently, but it is what it is. But what you are reminding me of just go and audition is like the most valuable piece of advice anyone could have given us, which we never got. Which was now you, the piece of paper that says you have a BFA is not for not, but it's also not, it doesn't directly correlate to getting jobs. Like, it just doesn't. So you, you got a job while you were in school and said, I'm going, you didn't even think about staying or how did that work in your brain?
4 (20m 30s):
Well it was, it was because I was literally just the two credit shy kind of thing. And actually the class was, it was sort of a lab where I, you know, I had to help strike sets, but I was so busy with doing shows that I never had time to go help out with strike. So it was one of those things, oh okay, I'll, I'll require, I'll get that when I can get it when I have the time. And I never did. And then the tour was starting before the fall session started and I was like, you know what? My only regret honestly was the fact that I felt like, and, and again, it's not, you know, if somebody were to ask me today, you know, should you go to theater school?
4 (21m 16s):
I would say yes, if that's what really where you wanna hone your craft if you wanna, you know, build your community, but don't, if you're gonna do something like that, go to a program that has an established alumni because that's where your connections are being made when you get out of school is that support network that you have at amda at the time, there really wasn't, you know, when I was there, the biggest sort of claim to fame at the time was Time Daily. She was a graduate of, of Amda. And so it was, it wasn't as if I could reach out to Time Daily all of a sudden.
4 (21m 59s):
And then Florida School, the arts was, and still is such a small arts school that there really wasn't anybody for me to reach out to. Had I gone to Northwestern, had I gone to Juilliard or Yale or, or or Tish, that I would've had a built-in network of working professionals on the outside. So that was my only regret in that, that if I had perhaps gone to a different theater school, maybe I would've had those connections. But I certainly got the education I felt I needed.
3 (22m 34s):
Well and also you got the connections while getting paid instead of having to pay, which is was just definitely preferable. And by and speak about, you know, work experience and getting connections. You have been on every television show that has ever existed and tons of films too. So was your experience that as soon as you started working, you were just off to the races? I mean, I'm not suggesting that it's easy because no life of an actor is easy, but have, has it been pretty consistent for you would you say for your career?
4 (23m 10s):
It's been consistently inconsistent in that,
1 (23m 16s):
Wait, I just have to say that has to be the name of your book. Okay. I, we were talking about earlier before you got on about titles of shows and books, your book could be consistently inconsistent. The Culin Douglas story, I'm just, I'm just putting it out there. Thank you. Please send me 10% check to my office.
4 (23m 32s):
Yeah, thanks. No, it really, it was one of those things that I, I had a very dear professor at Florida School of the the Arts, Patricia Kadi, she was the acting instructor there and I was doing all of the plays, I was in all of the productions there and I had kind of become the top dog in the school, so to speak. And she pulled me aside one day and she said, you know, the one thing you're gonna have to realize is you're probably not gonna start working professionally until you're in your thirties.
4 (24m 13s):
And I, and I didn't really understand what she was saying there. What she was basically commenting on was that I was a young character actor and I didn't look like Jason Priestly, I didn't look and yet I hadn't grown into my framer look either. So I was gonna be in this really sort of, where do we cast him? He's talented but we don't know where to put him. And so I did a lot of theater for a lot of years and then in my thirties is when I was able to transfer into television and film. So what, cause I finally had kind of caught up to my look.
1 (24m 45s):
Yeah. So what I appreciative aid about that is it sounds like she said it so she said it in a way that wasn't like being a jerk, right? Like my experience was feeling that way except having it told like there is something deficient in you so that you cannot be an ingenue cuz you're too fat, you're too this. So instead of, hey, go do some theater, do all the things and then you'll grow into your look, do not fret. This is like part of the technical side of the business of how a camera sees you and not about your talent. It would've been so much different. Instead it comes down to, I think a lot of people we've talked to from the DePauls, from the Northwestern say, nobody told me that in a way which was, I could make a plan about it.
1 (25m 35s):
It was always just, well you're never gonna be cast. So by, and instead of hey maybe you could do theater, maybe you could write, maybe you could do something else until Hollywood catches up to the character of you.
4 (25m 50s):
Exactly.
1 (25m 51s):
It good, Patricia. Good. Is Patricia still around?
4 (25m 54s):
She is. And she literally just announced today that she's retiring from teaching. Well
1 (25m 60s):
Patricia, you did good work and you she did fantastic. You made it so call in part of it sounds like she encouraged you cuz you started with that story of her encouraged you to know that maybe later it would be your time to be on every single television show ever written. But for the twenties and the, you know, you were gonna do some theater and, and get your training right man, and,
4 (26m 23s):
And I honestly, I didn't completely understand everything she was saying in that little sound bite because, you know, I was, I was sort of standing there saying, Patty, look at all these job offers. I just got out of CTCs, you know, I'm gonna be working like crazy. And she said, No, no, no, don't get me wrong that the work is going to be there. But as far as what you're seeing in your mind's eye of, you know, Helen Douglas tonight on The Tonight Show, that's not gonna happen until you can kind of get into that other stream as it were. How
3 (27m 0s):
So did that match up? I mean, was that a surprise to you or did that match up with what you already thought about yourself? I don't think any 17 year old, 18 year old necessarily thinks of themselves as a character actor. Although it may just be because it never gets put to you that that's an option when you're a teenager. You know, the option is like, as Bos mentioned, Ingenu or not Ingenu, but they never really say like, Well, but you, you know, you're gonna fit into this different mold. So how did that butt up against what you already thought about yourself?
4 (27m 32s):
It actually kind of lined up okay with me in, in a weird way because at Florida School, the arts in particular, they were so gracious in the fact that when they picked their seasons, they picked shows that it made sense for me to be the lead in, in that I, I'm giving you an example, we did a production of Our Town and I was the stage manager and, you know, as opposed to being cast as the one of the young, you know, lead ingenue kind of a things. And then we did Bye by Birdie and I was cast in the Dick Van Dyke role.
4 (28m 12s):
And so they did it in such a way that, you know, or when we did Barefoot in the Park, I was Victor Velasco the old man who lived upstairs. So I was already sort of being primed that I was this character actor and would be gonna be doing that kind of stuff. And then quite honestly, as that look started to emerge, I mean in college I had sort of a flock of seagulls kind of hairdo thing going on, you know, and then it quickly all went away. And I had been playing about 20 years older in film and television and in theater than I've actually always been, you know, I was playing guys in my, when I was in my, you know, thirties, I was playing guys in my fifties.
4 (28m 59s):
Now I'm in my fifties and I'm playing guys in my in
1 (29m 1s):
In seventies. And I think that calling, the thing that I'm noticing too is like maybe for men it's a little different too, right? Like there's something about being, like, there's just, and it's a societal thing where like women who are play, like, it's, it's a insult for women when they're like, Oh, we're sending you in for a 50 year old and you're 30. But, and I think maybe if you have a certain kind of ego for a man as well, and we all have egos, I mean, it says, but, and I, I love the fact that you didn't, it doesn't sound like anyway, and you can tell me if I'm wrong, you took it as an insult that they were, that you were going out for roles that were for like the Victor Velasco of the world. You were able to embrace it as you were working.
1 (29m 43s):
Like that's, so I say this all to say, because I remember in our last class with Jim Ooff, who people call hostile prof and he said to me, You know who you are. And I was like, dying to hear you are Michelle Pfeiffer. That was never gonna happen. But I was dying to hear, he was like, That's who you, he's like, you are the next. And I'm waiting and, and I'm waiting. He goes, Lenny Bruce. And I was like, what the actual fuck is going on? What are you telling me?
3 (30m 13s):
No idea. What a great compliment that was.
1 (30m 15s):
I was devastated, devastated. I wanted to quit. I was suicide. Like it was just, But anyway, so what I'm saying is you didn't take that and run with it in a way that was like, I am not Jason Priestly and therefore my life is over. You were able to work and, and embrace the roles. It sounds like
4 (30m 34s):
I was able to embrace the roles and, and I was getting, okay, you are a young dick fan dyke, you're a young, this kind of a guy. So I was able to kind of make that connection. I honestly were being completely honest here. I think, how do I put this, that it does not sound completely like an asshole. It
1 (30m 54s):
Doesn't matter. We always sound like assholes here. Go ahead.
4 (30m 57s):
But at Florida school, the arts, I was one of, I was one of the only straight men at school and therefore undated a lot. So I was not, the fact that I wasn't looking like the young hot stud,
1 (31m 22s):
You were still getting it
4 (31m 23s):
Right? I was still getting it. So that didn't it, had it not been like that situation, I think I probably would've started to hyperventilate thinking, well hold it, I'm in my twenties, why are they making me play these old men? And this is affecting, you know, cus group. But that wasn't the case. And so I, I had sort of a, a false sense of ego I guess a little bit. But it was supporting the work that I was doing.
3 (31m 50s):
Yeah, absolutely. So did you grow up always knowing that you wanted to be an actor? Did you think, did you try any other paths first? Or were you, were you dead set on this?
4 (32m 2s):
I was dead set when the story goes, that when I was four I asked Santa for a tuxedo to wear to the Emmys and Santa delivered gave me a, a white dinner jacket and spats and stuff like that. So I was, I was ready to go.
1 (32m 18s):
Oh my god, do you have that picture? Can you please send us that?
4 (32m 22s):
Oh no, we have moved so many times. When I was growing up, my dad, when I was growing up was an undercover investigative reporter. And so wherever he was basically undercover was where we were living. Wait
1 (32m 36s):
A minute, wait a minute. Wait a minute, wait. Okay. This is fantastic because I do a lot of crime writing and so does Gina writes and undercover crime reporter father now, right there is sort of burying the lead. What in the hell? He was an undercover, What does that even mean? An undercover, He's not a police officer, but he's an undercover reporter.
4 (32m 57s):
He was an undercover investigative reporter. Well, what that for a period of time, So I'll give you an ex, there was a senator at one time back in the early seventies who was receiving kickbacks from his employees or hiring people on the books. And those people weren't actually having jobs. And so they would then send him the money. He was getting all of the money.
1 (33m 24s):
Sure. Like Chicago was like living in Chicago all time.
4 (33m 28s):
So the, somebody tipped my father off that this was happening. And so he went undercover and, and worked as sort of like an aid and things like that. Or there was a time where he, he worked at a meat packing place or he worked at a funeral parlor that was selling caskets with fake bottoms. And so people would buy these incredibly expensive things and then they would drop them and then they'd open up the hatch and the body would just drop into a pine box and then they would reuse the, the casket.
1 (34m 8s):
So this is the single greatest thing I've ever heard in my life, and I'm gonna write a pilot about it immediately called Fake Bottom. And it's
4 (34m 14s):
Gonna see, I've already wrote that was, I actually wrote a spec pilot. That's how I landed my lid agent. Oh, it was because what ended up happening is my dad, much to my mom's chagrin, used me in two of his undercover stings when I was a kid. One time, there was a situation where firemen had been hired and they weren't actually properly trained. It was another one of those kind of kickback situations. So it was a training session and they, I was supposedly, it was a staged event where they were gonna try to test the skills of the firemen or whatever.
4 (34m 55s):
And so I was gonna, I I practiced with a real fireman being fireman carried up and down a ladder from a second story kind of a thing. But once the word was out that it was an internal sting, they put me into one of those crane baskets. And so I was sort of floating over midtown in, in the basket kind of a thing. And then another time actually, there was a talent agent who was running a kitty porn ring. And so I was sort of used to expose, so to speak, this this person that was actually trying to take advantage of, of kids and parents.
3 (35m 38s):
Oh my God. Well, two things occur to me about that. One is your family was already full of drama before you came along. I mean, anybody who wants to, right, who wants to do this investigative journalism, Like that's, that's a dramatic person. I love David Carr. I love that kind of personality of per, you know, the person who wants to like really get in there, investigate and just as an aside, like, I'm sorry for the families who paid for those coffins, but at the same time, you know, good, good on them because it's such a waste. So much, many people spent putting mahogany boxes into the ground to to, to, to decompose over time. Okay. So did your parents like that you wanted to be an actor or did they have a different idea for plan for you?
4 (36m 19s):
Oh, they, they were 100% supportive. The very, very much so from day one, I think, because it was my mom who really sort of stepped in and said, Hey, let's figure out how we can get this new kid who's always the new kid to find his people. And so she took me when I was 11 years old to a local community theater, children's community theater. And they were doing a production, a musical version of The Hobbit. And you know, the intention was that I was just gonna audition and be, you know, number 40 in the background kind of a thing.
4 (37m 0s):
Third,
3 (37m 1s):
Third habit from the left,
4 (37m 3s):
Third habit from the, And so they auditioned and I remember you had to sing a song and God, I have not told this story, you had to sing a song. And I decided to sing tomorrow from Annie because I was me madly, deeply in love with Andrea Ricardo. And we were actually pen pals. And so I went in there and I sang tomorrow and jump cut to that weekend. And my mom came in Saturday morning smiling as I was watching cartoons and she said, You've been cast in the lead as Bill Bos. And that was sort of like, okay, I I I found my people.
3 (37m 47s):
That's amazing. Please tell us more about your penal with,
4 (37m 54s):
So I, I just, I, you know, I I had gotten the album when it came out and I listened to it and I memorized it. And even then I was casting myself as either Rooster or Daddy Warbuck, you know. And so somehow I found her address and sent her, you know, a, a letter as we used to write, you know, before texting. And she wrote back and then I wrote back, and then the thing that was really exciting was 20,
3 (38m 28s):
Wait a minute, are you married to Annie?
4 (38m 31s):
No, I am not married to Annie. Okay. But 20 some odd years later I was doing a national tour and staying in a hotel in Hershey, Pennsylvania. Andrea was on tour doing a national tour and was staying in the same hotel, kind of bumped into one another and was like, you know, you don't know who I am, but this. And it ended up, it was wonderful because I went to see her show on my dark night and she and her family came to see me on, on the other night. So.
1 (39m 7s):
Beautiful. Okay, so here we go. Your family's on board and why didn't you just go and strike it out either in New York or anywhere? Why did you end up going to school? Were you like, I wanna learn more, or how did that transition into schooling go?
4 (39m 24s):
It did, I did wanna learn more. It, it really was because up at that point, the only influences as far as acting I was going was from, you know, the, either the community theater directors or the high school drama teacher who had, you know, aspirations for theater, but was really just doing it because he didn't wanna coach the football team. So I felt like I needed a stronger foundation for myself. And, but always it was sort of like I was going to the theater school because I didn't feel like, Oh, I don't wanna go to a school where I'm gonna have to learn all of these other things that I'm not gonna ever use.
4 (40m 7s):
Now I look back and go, you know, I wish I had done some of that other stuff because I did not create any kind of a fallback plan for me. It would, this is either gonna work or it's not gonna work and you're gonna be screwed. I
1 (40m 21s):
Mean, here's the thing, here's the thing. I don't know what you, you two think, but like, there is this two schools of, well there's probably a bajillion schools of thought, but one of them is like, if you have a fallback plan, you will fall back. The other one is not everyone is gonna be a Colin Douglas or a John C. Riley that's gonna work, work, work, work, work, work, work. So a fallback plan for some of us might have been like another avenue to get into the industry, right? But a fallback plan can also literally have people go and not live their dreams and become, you know, actuary scientists because they're afraid. So it's like, it's so individual, which is why I think theater school training is so tricky is because you're taking young individuals who don't know shit and some know what they wanna do, some don't, some are good, some are talented, but not, it's so individual.
1 (41m 10s):
So it's like when people ask me, should I go to theater school? I'm like, I fucking don't know who, I'm like, who are you and what do you wanna do on the planet? But nobody ever asked me that as a 17 year old. So here we are. Gina, you were gonna say something? Oh,
3 (41m 23s):
I was just going, if you remember your audition,
4 (41m 30s):
My audition into theater school. Okay. So I do, I remember my audition into anda a, and again, I already recognizing I was a character actor. I sang if I were a rich man from Fiddler on the Roof, you know, you know, a skinny ass, you know, kid from, you know, suburbia singing that song. And then I did a monologue from a play that I had done in high school. And which
1 (42m 9s):
One do you remember? Or No,
4 (42m 10s):
It's okay. It was it, yes. No, actually it was weird because I look back on it now kind of thinking how the soul sometimes prepares. I think sometimes it was a, from a show called Juvie, and I played a young gentleman who was mentally challenged and I got a lot of incredible feedback from, from the role because I had researched, I had, I had gone to the library and this is, there was a thing called Microfish when you would go to the library and you'd have to look up stories on kind of like a big machine. And I did all of these kind of things and research the roles, and I saw images of babies and young people with different kind of cognitive delays.
4 (42m 60s):
And so I did that. I got into Amda, whatever, again, sort of jumping forward in life. In 1996, my oldest son was born and he happened to be born with Down syndrome. And when I met him for the first time at the bassinet, I immediately went back to that Microfish machine in high school and remembered seeing babies and images of people with Down syndrome. And so I made that kind of connection. So it was sort of like, all right, this is where life was going as far as Florida School, the arts went, I actually didn't audition for that.
4 (43m 43s):
What had happened is I was at, and I broke my foot during one of the dance classes. They would bring in dance captains from various Broadway shows and teachers routines. And we were doing a routine from cats and I jumped off of a piling and I came down flat for,
1 (44m 5s):
Let me tell you something. This is what, this is just one of the many reasons I don't care for that musical is that also what are you having people jumping around for that? Aren't I just, anyway, I'm glad they brought, I'm sure it was a great experience in some ways, but like, I just don't care for, that was my first musical I saw. And I even as a kid, I was like, I don't buy this at all. I don't know what's going on here, but I don't like it. But anyway, so you busted your foot. Oh, and can I just say about microfiche? I'm sorry to be an asshole, but like, I could never figure out how to slow the fucking shit down and I never could see a goddamn story, so I gave up on the microphone, so you made it further than me. I was like, why is it going too fast? That was my, that's like, like, that's like so indicative of my life. But anyway, so okay, so you, you broke your foot and so what happened?
1 (44m 49s):
You had to, why did you
4 (44m 50s):
So I, I, I broke my foot, I went home to my parents' place who were now living in Florida and kind of rehabbed for a while. I then auditioned for a play for Pirates of Penza, excuse me, that was up, up performances up near St. Augustine, Florida. And I went up there and I was playing Samuel the the second pirate. And the gentleman who was playing the modern major general in the show was actually the dean and artistic director of Florida School of the Arts. And he said to me, If you'd like to come to school, we'll offer you a full scholarship and you can start at the, as soon as the show closes.
4 (45m 38s):
And so that's what I did. It was like, I just went straight to Flos Bureau Arts and I did not go back up to Amda after my footed here. Helen,
1 (45m 45s):
It's really interesting, like, and I was talking about, this was someone else yesterday about how one, obviously one thing leads to the next, Oh it was a showrunner actually, that was that I was listening to a lecture and she just said that what I've done is I have walked through doors that have opened to me without a lot of second guessing. I followed my heart in terms of who took interest in me and who opened doors for me. I walked through them. I didn't say no, but, or no, I just did it. And so it sounds like that's what you did. You were like, Oh, full ride, I'm in Florida now. You could have been like, No, no, no, I'm gonna go back to Amda because whatever.
1 (46m 26s):
But you were like, I'm gonna do this. And it sounds like it worked in your favor, but what was your experience like at Florida? Did you, I mean obviously we know you left early, but did you get stuff out of it? Did you love it? What was the deal?
4 (46m 41s):
I did love it in the sense that because it was such a small school and because where the school is located, it's in Plac of Florida, which is sort of geographically in the middle of sort of Jacksonville and Gainesville. And so on a Friday night there really wasn't any partying going on. It was all of us getting together and doing monologues for one another, you know, because there wasn't any place to really go. And then as far as the classes went, because it was such a small institution, so many of my classes were literally just myself and professor in their office.
4 (47m 26s):
And we would do, you know, that's how I learned dialects was literally just, you know, we were working on the Italian dialect or whatever and I would go in and the professor would speak to me in that Italian dialect and then I would have to answer him and that would be the entire class. And then the next week we would do the brooklynese. And so I had all of that and they were very, very gracious to me because when I came in as quote a freshman, I was taking all of the freshman courses, but then they also had me taking all of the second year acting courses as well, sort of accelerating me through the program and then allowing that by doing that I was able to be cast in all of their different productions.
3 (48m 15s):
So when you did school and enter the workforce, what surprised about sort of the business that maybe you weren't expecting or hadn't been prepared for? For in terms of your training or, you know, and it could have been a happy surprise or, or, or not such a happy surprise, but like what was some I always just feel like there's, people have their list of things. Oh, I never thought the one that people always bring up as coverage, I never thought, when I watched TV shows that they had to do the same thing 50 times.
4 (48m 58s):
I, I think for, for me, the biggest sort of, even though Patty Crotty, Patricia Crotty had said, you know, Hey, it's gonna be a while before you're gonna start to work. You know, although I did work immediately when I got outta school, it was, it was one of those things where I quickly realized that they really didn't care that I had played Albert and by by Birdie they didn't care that I was in all of the productions. It was basically, no, you've earned the right to stand in the back of a line and you're gonna have to, you know, get up at an ungodly hour, go to equity, sign in at 6:00 AM and then come back at two in the afternoon for your audition.
4 (49m 47s):
But by the time you come back, if you pick up backstage, you're gonna read that Robert Strong Leonard has already been offered the role that you're auditioning for at two o'clock. So those were sort of some of the realities of, oh, okay, this is not necessarily gonna be the projecting thing that's gonna get me into the room. It's just, it's gonna be more for me that, okay, I feel like I deserve to be here and I'm competent enough in my abilities. But I, I think that was as far as just working in general. But Gina, to answer the question as far as like the thing that I was most surprised by within the industry, I'm, I'm trying to think if there was anything that I really was sort of taken aback by,
1 (50m 31s):
Well I guess I can ask like, did you, what was your like, like in terms of getting an agent and all that, did anything there go like, Oh my gosh, I didn't understand that I would have to, How did your representation come about? Was that a surprise or did you just get an agent? Cause a lot of our listeners, some of them we talk, you know, we talk about like a showcase or, but you left early and just started working, so what was that transition like in terms of getting representation and going on, on auditions for film and TV or theater? And if you think of anything that surprises you along the way, just let us know. But sure,
4 (51m 4s):
I didn't have theatrical, I didn't have legit theater representation for a lot of years. I was literally very lucky in that, you know, just using relationships, you know, to help propel me into the next situation that one show would be closing and I would hear about the fact that they were looking for something else. Or I would go to the Southeastern Theater conference and audition and be able to pick up my next year or year and a half worth of work. And I was able to kind of keep it at that point. I finally did get an agent who was gonna cover me theatrically as well as, you know, commercially.
4 (51m 46s):
And I remember her telling me, she was basically saying the same thing that Patty Crotty had said is that, you know, you know, you're a good actor, I'll put you out there, but it's, it's probably gonna be a while before you're gonna book a commercial or any kind of television cuz you're just really hard to place. She was good to her words. She put me out there and a week later I booked a Budweiser commercial. So I was like, Oh, okay, I think I got this. I, I think the hardest lesson that I had to learn was that because it sometimes came easy, it felt like, like, oh, okay, this is what it was, is I would get say to that chunk of change.
4 (52m 29s):
And I, it took me a while to figure out that I had to make that chunk of change, stretch as far as I possibly could because I didn't know exactly when the next job was coming from and, and that it was hard when I met and fell in love with my wife who was coming. She had been a model, but she had also worked in the corporate world. And so she was very accustomed to, well no, you make this amount of money every month and this is what you can expect with your expenses. It was hard when we started to realize, oh no, CU just got a great windfall of money, but if you break it down and spread it out over a year, he's not making minimum wage.
4 (53m 10s):
So, you know, it was a really, that was a hard kind of thing to adjust with.
3 (53m 15s):
Yes. I mean that's, yes, that's a common story and that's something that they don't teach you about in theater school. They don't teach you money management and how you have to withhold taxes and all kinda stuff. Yeah. So that, that's that, that's, that's a whole education in and of itself. But you were also a writer and director. When did the writing and directing and producing come into your career?
4 (53m 40s):
The writing actually started in college in that we would have to have monologues for class and I had an affinity to writing the monologues and so I started writing monologues for my classmates for beer money or they would need an audition piece for something in particular. And so I would tailor it to sort of echo whatever play that they were auditioning for kind of a thing. And so it really just sort of came easy for me. And then whenever I was auditioning, my biggest thing was I don't wanna go in there with something that they have seen 3000 times.
4 (54m 23s):
And so I was like, Okay, you know what? I'm just gonna write my own thing. And it worked, it worked to a degree. And so that's where I sort of started to do it. And then personally after my oldest son Gabe was born, I had a lot of demons to be dealing with. I didn't understand why I had been chosen or whatever, or, or given a child with a disability and, and it took me kind of having to get outta my own way to realize that was the least interesting thing about him. And, but in doing so, I, I started to write in journals and then I ended up writing a one man play that I in turn tour the country with for a handful of years.
4 (55m 11s):
And it was that play that I then attracted some other attention and then got hired on to do some other writing in script doctoring or whatever. And then as I shared earlier, I wrote a spec script about that time of my life when we were kind of moving into hotels and things like that. And then that kind of just started to snowball. And then I was very fortunate back in 2010, I had the Humanitas Organization, Humanitas Prize. They tapped me as the first recipient of their New Voices fellowship program, which pairs you with showrunners to sort of mentor you in creating a television series.
4 (56m 0s):
And so I was shared with, paired with Shonda rhymes over at Shondaland and was able to develop a show, which was actually an adaptation of my one man play, about a family, you know, coming to terms and dealing with a child with a disability. But I had already actually had a relationship with Shawnda prior to that because I had gotten cast in an episode of Grey's Anatomy and she and her producing partner, Betsy Beers, put me up for an Emmy for that role. And then when I didn't get the nomination, Shawnda turned around and created a role for me over on private practice.
1 (56m 46s):
Okay. So you know, all these people, and I guess I'm mindful of time and I wanna know what the hell are you, are you doing now you have this documentary, What is your jam right this second? Colin Douglas. And if you could do anything, what would it be? And tell us about this documentary, because what I don't wanna happen is it's like 10 minutes go by and we haven't heard about the documentary and we haven't heard about like, what is your jam and your juice right this second.
4 (57m 13s):
Okay. So I, I made the documentary, I started working on it when we got locked out, you know, the world was hurting, the industry was shut down. I couldn't stand in front of a camera, I couldn't direct a bunch of actors in a narrative, but I knew I could still tell stories. And so I, at one point in my career, I detoured and I was an associate show director and a performer at Walt Disney World. I was there for about three years. And the level of talent in those theme parks is just incredible. You know, there are a lot of people who come outta theater schools and they get their job, you know, at Dollywood or at Bush Gardens or at Disney World or Disneyland, and they spend the summer there and then they go off and do whatever else with their life.
4 (58m 5s):
There are other individuals like the subject of my film, Billy Flanigan, who, he started right after theater school. He went to Boston Conservatory. He then opened up Epcot in 1982 as a kid at the Kingdom and has been working for 40 years straight as a performer out at Disney. When the Disney Park shut down because of the pandemic, Billy was without a stage for the first time in his 40 year career. So what he did is he took it upon himself to start doing singing and dancing telegrams for other performers who were out of work. And then he started to literally take it on the road because he's a cyclist and he started crisscrossing the entire country, delivering these sing in dancing telegrams called Planograms.
4 (58m 55s):
And my Facebook page was blowing up with, I got Planogrammed, I got Planogrammed and I, so I reached out to some old friends from Disney and I said, I've heard about this name Billy Flanigan for years. He's a, he's a legend. He was a legend 20 years ago when I was working, You know, can you put me in touch with him? And so I spoke with Billy. I reached out to my producing partner and I said, There's a documentary here, because Billy has just been so incredibly selfless. He's always a pay it forward kind of a guy. He's a performers performer, you know, even though he jokes about the fact that he'll get a nosebleed if he's not on center.
4 (59m 36s):
But it's one of those things where he just really is about making the other people on stage look good. So he's been the face of Disney. But then what ended up happening is he was so busy working and raising an entire family that a handful of years ago, Billy finally slowed down and realized that he had been living a different life than he perhaps should have been. And he came out and it really destroyed his family and, and brought things down. And so you had this guy who day in and day out was still having to give that Disney, you know, RAAs, but behind the scenes, as we all know, his performers, the show's gotta go on.
4 (1h 0m 20s):
And so his heart was breaking. And so I said to Billy, Look, if we tell your story, we're gonna have to tell all of it, because I feel like you sharing your humanity and your pain is gonna help other people out there within the L G B T community who are feeling bullied or feeling like they don't have their place. So if we can do this, this is, this is sort of our mandate. And he said yes. And his family said yes. And, and thankfully not as a direct link to the film, but I shared the final cut with Billy and his family, because obviously I had to have their final approval. And Billy called me and said, This film is helping heal my family now, because it had given them that creative distance that it was no longer them, it was these other people up on a screen talking about a period of their life.
4 (1h 1m 13s):
So right now, the film, it premieres digitally on October 7th, and then is available on D V D November 15th. And then after the first of the year, it'll be looking like landing on one of the major streamers.
3 (1h 1m 29s):
Oh, that's fantastic. I'm so excited to see it because I watched the trailer and that thing that you were describing about, you know, he's, he's, he's gotta always have a stage that comes through from the first frame. You see him, you think, Wow, this guy is like a consummate performer in a way that I could never imagine. I mean, yes, I, I love to be on stage. It's fantastic, but I, I don't have this thing where like, you know, I've gotta be performing every second. And that was really clear. And I didn't know, I didn't glean from the trailer that he was doing that for fun for other performers. I thought he was just starting his business with the singing telegram. So that is even more interesting. Okay, that's really cool.
3 (1h 2m 9s):
So after the first of the year, it'll come out on a streamer. And actually when you know which one it is, you'll let us know and we'll, we'll promote it on our socials. And I
4 (1h 2m 17s):
Wanted, but you can preorder now the DVD and the digital.
1 (1h 2m 22s):
Yeah. I didn't mean to like cut us off from Shonda land, but I really wanted to make sure that we talk about this documentary because I think that it is taking your career and your life in, it's like it's made it bigger and about other things other than, I mean, it's like there's a service component to documentary work that like, I think is not always there in other kinds of media. That documentary work is like at once, for me anyway, really personal, but also universal and also has a great capacity for healing. And so, or at least the truth, right? Like what is the truth?
1 (1h 3m 2s):
So that's why I wanted to make sure we covered that. But if there's other things you wanna say about your career and like what you're doing now and where you wanna go or anything else, I wanna give you the opportunity, but I wanted to make sure, So I didn't mean to cut off your Shonda land story because I know people are probably like, Oh my God, tell more about Sean Rhymes. But I wanted to talk about the, the Billy documentary.
4 (1h 3m 24s):
I appreciate that so much. No, I, I, you know, just to sort of bookend the, the documentary, I never felt like it was one of those things that I knew I could tell stories, but I didn't feel like I had any business telling the documentary. I don't necessarily even gravitate towards documentaries, but I just felt like, hold it. This truly is a story that that needs to be told and can maybe bring about a little bit of healing. And that's what I think good films and television do that you, we, we see ourselves mirrored back in many ways and we feel less alone.
4 (1h 4m 5s):
And so I felt like if I could do that with a narrative, maybe I can do it with a, a documentary. That's not to say that I wanna become a documentarian, because it's not that I wouldn't if the opportunity ever presented itself, but it's the same way in which, you know, writing a narrative feature, it's like, well, I've gotta be compelled to wanna tell this story kind of a thing. And this just happened to be the medium in which to tell it as opposed to making a, you know, a, a film about a guy named Billy who wants to start out being a performer.
1 (1h 4m 40s):
And I think that you've said a really good word that we talk about sometimes in other ways on this show and in my life I talk about is being compelled. So when someone is compelled to do something, I know that the art created from that feeling of being compelled is usually authentic, true necessary, and, and, and, and, and sometimes healing. So I love the word what doing projects that were compelled. So anything else that you're compelled to do right now?
4 (1h 5m 14s):
Work great, really, you know, I I, I really, I I still even after, you know, making this, this film, I, I am still very much an actor at heart and I love being on camera. I love the collaborative experience working with other actors. You know, I was very, very fortunate this past season to to work on Barry with Bill Hater and Bill, I guess if I, it was like, what's next? What's my next jam? I would love to be able to emulate what Bill is doing. You know, Bill is the lead. He's also writing, he's also directing all of the episodes.
4 (1h 5m 58s):
You know, I joked with him that he also ran craft services because it was literally doing all those things and just watching him effortlessly move from being Barry back to Bill, giving me a note and then giving a note to the DP and then stepping back into Barry was just a really wonderful thing. And it's like, you know what, if I can do that, and I have other friends and, and mentors like Tom Verica, Tom actually directed me in that first episode of Grey's Anatomy. And he and I have since become dear friends. He's now the executive producer and resident director on Bridger.
4 (1h 6m 39s):
He also was the resident director and producer on inventing Anna. And he and I have developed a narrative film that we're looking to produce as well. And, and, and so again, and yet, you know, Tom as sort of an aspiration or an inspiration for me. And he started out as an actor himself. And then, you know, he directed a lot of Grey's Anatomy and then the next thing you know, he's playing Vila, Viola Davis' husband on how to Get Away with Murder. And then he was also the lead producer on Scandal. So it's like, you know, not being defined by what this industry wants to put you in.
4 (1h 7m 20s):
I feel like I'm finally at the point in my career where Colin can direct a documentary and he could write something for somebody else and he could act. And, and again, you know, from day one when I, when I left Flow Arts early to go out and do the job, it's just because I wanna keep working. Yeah.
3 (1h 7m 38s):
And that's, that's, everybody says that. Everybody says, I just wish I could be working constantly. Cuz it's where it's where all the fun of, of the work is, you know, not auditioning and getting head shots and whatever. It's, it's, it's doing the work. By the way, Barry is how I came to ask you to be on this podcast, because I didn't watch it when it first came out. I, I kind of came to it late and of course binge the whole thing and it's fantastic. And, and I immediately went and looked up every single actor to see who went to theater school because I, I would love to have them all. What a fantastic show and what an interesting kind of nice little parallel somehow with your documentary and, and also your own story.
3 (1h 8m 18s):
There's a lot about actors like figuring out what they're doing on screen and, and kind of reconciling that with their offscreen life or, or even just with their career. Do I wanna be this type of actor? Do I wanna be this type of person? You know, Ha and Bill Hater has seamlessly gone, I mean, once upon a time you would not have really thought of a Saturday Night Live person making quite this kind of crossover. And the humor in that show about actors is so perfect. I've ne I've seen things that have come close to that, but I've never seen something that you're just dying laughing if you know anything about the acting profession, Right?
3 (1h 8m 58s):
Yeah. Or were you gonna say that?
1 (1h 8m 59s):
I was gonna say that. And also that like, his account, So I have suffered, you know, from panic attacks and anxiety disorder and his journey through that and with that has given me so much hope as a artist because he was one of the first people I knew, especially from snl, especially from comedy, to say, I was struggling with this and this is how I dealt with it. So it didn't totally destroy my life. And he could have chosen to be like, I'm having panic attacks on set at Saturday Live. I'm done, I'm done. But he worked through it and now is doing all of this. So it gives me a lot of hope. So if you talk to him, tell him there's a late, an anxious lady that really feels like I can, I can really reclaim myself as an artist and even maybe thrive through the anxiety.
4 (1h 9m 50s):
No, I, I, I so appreciate that, Jen. I really do. You know, I have dealt with panic attacks over the years, you know, again, being that new kid, I was kind of predisposed to, Oh my gosh, you know, and luckily I've never had it within my art. It's always been on the other side. But the way in which Bill has navigated all of that is really truly just, you know, motivating and inspiring on so many different levels. And I think the thing that I also recognize is the fact that Bill never had aspirations to be on snl. He wanted to be a filmmaker, you know, he was editing, he was doing all these types of things and he sort of fell in backwards to groundings and, and all that kind of stuff.
4 (1h 10m 38s):
And somebody saw him and said, Hey, let's do it. It's sort of like he had to kind of take that detour to be able to get back to doing the kind of things that he really wanted to be doing, you know, Which is great for me because I look at like, my time at Disney, okay? I never would've imagined that that brief time at Disney would've been able to fuel me in that it brought back into my life to allow me to direct a film about one of their performers 20 years later.
1 (1h 11m 6s):
It's a, your story. I'm so glad you came on because your story is a story about the, the consistent inconsistencies and the detours that aren't really detours. And for me, like just being like, I'm just knowing now going into into meetings, being a former therapist for felons. Like that is the thing that people are really interested in. And I fucking never could have planned that in my whole fucking life. And now I'm like, wait, what? So it all works all our lives. And you're a great example of this and it's a great way to sort of end the interview and, and say like, you are a great example of that detours seeming detours are maybe just like the thing that is called for and needed in the moment.
1 (1h 11m 53s):
And you don't know where you're gonna go. But it's not like, I think a lot of actors that I talk to, it's like, Oh my God, I'm taking a step back, I'm taking a step back, I'm going backwards in my career. And I'm like, wait a second. No, you're not. You're just doing other things on your path. So anyway, you're so,
3 (1h 12m 8s):
It's not a detour at all. It's the path. It's the path. It just goes that way.
4 (1h 12m 12s):
I literally said almost what you just said, Jen, to my youngest son Cameron, who has just started his junior year at the University of California, Santa Barbara as a film major. And he had taken a gap year just prior to the pandemic and had gone off and worked as a sous chef at a place in St. Croix and then came back and all of a sudden he was in lockdown and he was taking his college courses. And he felt the other day he was expressing like, I feel like I've had to take this. Really, I took a wrong turn in this Heart was like, No, buddy, no, this is awesome. Because now you've had this life experience that's bringing you to a different place in your art and in your life and in your relationships that just hold on because it's just gonna get more and more exciting at this point.
1 (1h 13m 5s):
Oh, well why, why? The other question is, why, why weren't you my dad? I mean, you're my age, so not gonna say that, but like, I wish that was, I mean, that's kind of weird, but I'm just getting vibes of like, Oh, your kids are lucky.
3 (1h 13m 16s):
Yeah, for sure.
1 (1h 13m 17s):
So thank
3 (1h 13m 18s):
You. This has been fantastic. Colin, where can people find you?
4 (1h 13m 22s):
Where can they find, They can find me on instagram@realcolindouglas.com. I believe that's my handle. I'm
3 (1h 13m 30s):
Not sure. Or just real Colin Douglas? Yeah. On Instagram?
4 (1h 13m 33s):
I think so. I think I have. And then they can certainly look up Billy Flanigan, the happiest man on Earth, and, you know, just keep your eyes peeled. I've, I've got a couple of film projects that are coming out yay and recurring on a television show that's gonna be coming out. Okay. So hopefully I'll just keep working. Oh
3 (1h 13m 54s):
Yeah, we'll be seeing you everywhere. We'll see you everywhere so much for your time.
2 (1h 14m 5s):
If you liked what you heard today, please give us a positive five star review and subscribe and tell your friends I Survive. Theater School is an undeniable ink production. Jen Bosworth Ramirez and Gina PCI are the cohosts. This episode was produced, edited, and sound mixed by Gina pci. For more information about this podcast or other goings on of Undeniable Inc, please visit our website@undeniablewriters.com. You could also follow us on Facebook, Instagram, and Twitter. Thank.