1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:03,510 We're 2 00:00:05,101 --> 00:00:09,450 so happy you decided to come back and listen to Count Me In's 150th episode. 3 00:00:09,960 --> 00:00:13,500 Welcome to today's conversation. I am your host, Adam Larson, 4 00:00:13,800 --> 00:00:16,980 and the speaker for this milestone episode is Mfon Akpan, 5 00:00:17,310 --> 00:00:20,100 assistant professor of accounting at Methodist University. 6 00:00:20,610 --> 00:00:24,810 Mfon has a passion for emerging technologies and as an expert in virtual reality 7 00:00:24,811 --> 00:00:25,644 technology. 8 00:00:25,710 --> 00:00:29,730 He researches new technologies and educational methods to offer students 9 00:00:30,240 --> 00:00:34,230 occurrent effective and relative teaching experience and his conversation with 10 00:00:34,231 --> 00:00:35,130 my co-host Mitch, 11 00:00:35,790 --> 00:00:39,180 Mfon talks about the value of social media and its accounting implications for 12 00:00:39,181 --> 00:00:40,980 accountants and finance professionals. 13 00:00:41,160 --> 00:00:45,120 Stay tuned now and thanks again for listening to another episode of our series. 14 00:00:51,900 --> 00:00:54,720 Social media is not something that many, you know, 15 00:00:54,721 --> 00:00:58,920 accounting and finance people probably keep top of mind, but following, 16 00:00:58,921 --> 00:01:00,480 you know, initial conversation here, 17 00:01:00,481 --> 00:01:04,130 there are a lot of dots to connect between social media and accounting. 18 00:01:04,140 --> 00:01:06,060 So to kick off our conversation, 19 00:01:06,750 --> 00:01:10,410 can you please explain why is it important for our accounting and finance 20 00:01:10,411 --> 00:01:14,070 listeners to really understand the value of social media? 21 00:01:15,360 --> 00:01:19,530 Well, I would say that, well, first of all, that's a great question, Mitchell, 22 00:01:19,531 --> 00:01:24,390 and I would say in one word data and 23 00:01:24,630 --> 00:01:26,310 another word funnels. 24 00:01:27,210 --> 00:01:32,130 So when we look at the outage of Facebook and 25 00:01:32,131 --> 00:01:34,110 Instagram, that just happened, 26 00:01:34,620 --> 00:01:39,390 there was a huge disruption in both of those 27 00:01:39,420 --> 00:01:43,890 areas, one data, so information, 28 00:01:44,340 --> 00:01:49,140 two funnels. So you have many businesses that use social media 29 00:01:49,141 --> 00:01:52,890 to drive traffic, not only to their websites, 30 00:01:52,891 --> 00:01:56,130 but also to their physical locations. 31 00:01:56,131 --> 00:02:00,690 And this was completely disrupted. So, so many of those, 32 00:02:00,691 --> 00:02:04,980 those individuals may say, well, my business doesn't rely on, 33 00:02:04,981 --> 00:02:09,750 social media is not that important. What, when it was gone, many, 34 00:02:09,780 --> 00:02:12,270 many business owners felt the impact of that. 35 00:02:12,271 --> 00:02:16,350 And I think it's important as accountants for us to 36 00:02:16,351 --> 00:02:18,150 understand number one, 37 00:02:18,390 --> 00:02:22,800 to advise clients on their situation, 38 00:02:22,801 --> 00:02:25,020 but also the environment as a whole. 39 00:02:25,230 --> 00:02:29,370 And we need to also understand where the environment is going. 40 00:02:30,740 --> 00:02:31,980 So, one thing, 41 00:02:31,981 --> 00:02:36,570 and we talked about this a bit before the interview was 42 00:02:36,571 --> 00:02:41,370 I found out that Facebook was down because I started getting text 43 00:02:41,371 --> 00:02:45,840 messages from, from companies and place idea of business with that said, "Hey, 44 00:02:45,841 --> 00:02:49,050 come to our website, Facebook is down, 45 00:02:49,051 --> 00:02:51,570 this is a chance for you to check out certain things". 46 00:02:51,571 --> 00:02:55,830 That's how I found out because I was getting text messages from it. So, 47 00:02:55,831 --> 00:02:59,950 you know, understanding how this can impact the flow of business, 48 00:02:59,951 --> 00:03:01,420 I think is very important. 49 00:03:01,421 --> 00:03:06,400 And I think the outage of Facebook for many 50 00:03:06,401 --> 00:03:11,050 business owners was a wake up call on its importance and also the importance 51 00:03:11,051 --> 00:03:14,350 of having some type of backup plan, 52 00:03:14,440 --> 00:03:19,390 which translates to a strategy on what to do if 53 00:03:19,391 --> 00:03:21,220 it's not working. 54 00:03:21,250 --> 00:03:26,060 And or if that platform that you are on 55 00:03:26,080 --> 00:03:30,430 for some reason is not as popular or as not as, 56 00:03:30,490 --> 00:03:31,323 effective. 57 00:03:32,050 --> 00:03:36,400 Yeah, those are great points. And, you know, we, we talk about data, obviously, 58 00:03:36,401 --> 00:03:41,020 data technology, evolution across accounting and finance and, you know, 59 00:03:41,021 --> 00:03:44,740 social media, it kind of lives on all of that. So, you know, you don't, 60 00:03:44,741 --> 00:03:46,480 like I said, it may not be top of mind, 61 00:03:46,481 --> 00:03:50,200 but through our conversation and considering everything that happened with 62 00:03:50,201 --> 00:03:52,420 Facebook and Instagram and, you know, 63 00:03:52,510 --> 00:03:56,950 we're talking events of the start of October, but, you know, 64 00:03:56,951 --> 00:04:01,900 I think there are, are a lot of other points to connect with our listeners. And, 65 00:04:01,901 --> 00:04:02,350 you know, 66 00:04:02,350 --> 00:04:07,270 we also heavily rely on metrics right in different benchmarks and other 67 00:04:07,271 --> 00:04:10,270 data points specifically. So as far as that goes, 68 00:04:10,271 --> 00:04:12,790 what kind of social media metrics, 69 00:04:13,090 --> 00:04:16,780 really affect the accounting and finance team as these, you know, 70 00:04:16,781 --> 00:04:17,614 events trickle down? 71 00:04:18,760 --> 00:04:23,740 Well, I think it goes back to, as far as social media, understanding that. 72 00:04:23,741 --> 00:04:27,640 So from a, I guess, putting at a very simple level, 73 00:04:27,641 --> 00:04:31,900 understanding the dashboards on the social media platforms that you're using, 74 00:04:31,901 --> 00:04:36,370 that's very important from the side of the accountant, 75 00:04:36,910 --> 00:04:38,020 because if you're going to advise your client, 76 00:04:38,021 --> 00:04:41,680 you need to have some type of understanding of it, 77 00:04:41,681 --> 00:04:45,490 what data is there and what may be relevant to your client. 78 00:04:46,030 --> 00:04:50,380 Your client needs to understand it cause needs to understand who's engaging with 79 00:04:50,381 --> 00:04:55,120 their content. And when we think about social media, 80 00:04:55,121 --> 00:04:58,090 it can be broken down into three areas. So you've got owned, 81 00:04:58,091 --> 00:05:02,830 you got paid and earned. And when you think about your, 82 00:05:02,831 --> 00:05:07,300 your own accounts, so what you're posting, 83 00:05:07,301 --> 00:05:08,890 if it's a Instagram, 84 00:05:08,891 --> 00:05:13,600 if it's a Facebook or if it's a Tik Tok understanding, okay, 85 00:05:13,601 --> 00:05:16,960 what I post who's looking at it, who's looking at it. 86 00:05:19,840 --> 00:05:23,020 What are their demographics? You know, are they moving? 87 00:05:23,320 --> 00:05:27,820 And you can also look to, to determine where the traffic is going. 88 00:05:28,040 --> 00:05:31,660 Are they coming into the store? If it's a physical location, 89 00:05:31,661 --> 00:05:35,620 are they going to the website? If they do go to the website, 90 00:05:35,621 --> 00:05:38,590 are they buying same thing. If they go into the physical location, 91 00:05:39,100 --> 00:05:43,540 they call that conversions. So understanding that, and really that, 92 00:05:43,541 --> 00:05:47,950 that movement of getting people from that social media to your website and 93 00:05:47,951 --> 00:05:51,100 location, that's, that's a funnel, what they call a funnel. 94 00:05:51,101 --> 00:05:55,720 So understanding that I think is important on both sides. 95 00:05:55,721 --> 00:06:00,260 So from the accountant side to the, to the, business owner side, 96 00:06:00,261 --> 00:06:05,090 the other thing is that what I tell people is, 97 00:06:05,091 --> 00:06:07,790 you know, many people are, are, overwhelmed. They said, well, 98 00:06:07,791 --> 00:06:12,620 this is a lot of stuff to learn. And I say, you know, 99 00:06:12,621 --> 00:06:15,920 you don't have to become an expert at it, 100 00:06:15,921 --> 00:06:19,760 but you should be knowledgeable, particularly if you're, 101 00:06:19,761 --> 00:06:23,330 if you're using it for your business, you're posting it. 102 00:06:23,331 --> 00:06:27,380 You may be missing out on opportunities by 103 00:06:27,381 --> 00:06:30,110 understanding that information. 104 00:06:30,111 --> 00:06:34,700 And particularly you need to be knowledgeable if you're doing what's called paid 105 00:06:34,701 --> 00:06:39,260 media, you're paying for advertising. You really need to understand, 106 00:06:39,261 --> 00:06:42,350 are you effectively using your, 107 00:06:42,440 --> 00:06:45,890 advertising dollars on that platform? But if it makes sense. 108 00:06:46,820 --> 00:06:51,260 I think, you know, for accounting and finance, everybody's looking to, 109 00:06:51,950 --> 00:06:54,560 you know, make sense of the numbers, right. And quantify things. 110 00:06:54,561 --> 00:06:58,280 And obviously everything you're talking about certainly relates to that. 111 00:06:58,281 --> 00:07:02,180 And I think one of the best or most common, however you want to say it, 112 00:07:02,270 --> 00:07:05,840 metrics really is, you know, that ROI, what is the returns? 113 00:07:06,440 --> 00:07:10,940 So when we talk about that, what is the actual measurement, 114 00:07:10,970 --> 00:07:13,460 as far as social media impact, you know, 115 00:07:13,461 --> 00:07:18,260 what are some scenarios where understanding ROI is really most important 116 00:07:18,261 --> 00:07:21,380 for, you know, the business owner, the accounting function. 117 00:07:22,700 --> 00:07:23,061 Yeah. 118 00:07:23,061 --> 00:07:27,980 It is very important because you want to make sure that it's specifically 119 00:07:28,520 --> 00:07:33,260 would that pay media portion. You want to make sure that it's, 120 00:07:33,680 --> 00:07:37,850 it's being effective. It's being effective. There's measures, 121 00:07:38,570 --> 00:07:41,480 not in the dollar sentence, they call volume and valence, 122 00:07:41,990 --> 00:07:44,570 but you want to make sure that, okay, 123 00:07:44,571 --> 00:07:47,690 if I'm spending a thousand dollars a month, 124 00:07:48,140 --> 00:07:52,550 what does that equal in conversions? What, 125 00:07:52,551 --> 00:07:57,290 what is the return for me on that as a business owner and 126 00:07:57,350 --> 00:07:58,520 as an accountant, 127 00:07:58,940 --> 00:08:02,720 you want to be able to understand if these, 128 00:08:03,110 --> 00:08:06,260 these campaigns, as they call them are being a few, 129 00:08:06,261 --> 00:08:11,060 if you're advising your customers or your clients to, use paid media, 130 00:08:11,061 --> 00:08:14,300 is it being effective? So you, 131 00:08:14,301 --> 00:08:17,180 one of the measures as the impressions and the, 132 00:08:17,181 --> 00:08:20,270 the overall engagement with whatever, posts, 133 00:08:20,630 --> 00:08:24,560 which could lead to further awareness, or again, 134 00:08:24,680 --> 00:08:28,220 the end goal is conversion. So, 135 00:08:28,640 --> 00:08:32,810 and there's schools of thought on this, the awareness is, 136 00:08:32,930 --> 00:08:37,790 is more of the long game where they said that awareness will eventually 137 00:08:37,791 --> 00:08:40,310 lead to conversions or sales, 138 00:08:40,760 --> 00:08:43,610 and then the conversions. 139 00:08:43,640 --> 00:08:47,000 So immediate traffic and then purchases, you know, 140 00:08:47,001 --> 00:08:50,540 that that's the shorter term of, of the area. 141 00:08:50,840 --> 00:08:55,010 So it's important to understand all of that and to have some sort of strategy, 142 00:08:56,160 --> 00:08:59,910 whether it is formal or informal, and to be able to, 143 00:09:00,010 --> 00:09:03,660 to recommend and make recommendations to your clients. 144 00:09:03,990 --> 00:09:05,550 Also looking at trends. 145 00:09:06,120 --> 00:09:10,980 So looking at seeing what works and what does it work. And the, 146 00:09:11,610 --> 00:09:14,100 a lot of this is tied into, you know, you, 147 00:09:14,160 --> 00:09:18,240 you have the marketing point where there's not a really, 148 00:09:18,480 --> 00:09:22,590 you're putting things out in the public public domain. So, you know, 149 00:09:22,591 --> 00:09:25,170 some things may work is a lot of trial and error, 150 00:09:25,350 --> 00:09:28,530 which may be daunting to some as well. 151 00:09:29,340 --> 00:09:32,970 So as far as keeping track of all this, right, you know, 152 00:09:32,971 --> 00:09:37,170 there are a number of data points that you just discussed and a number of ways 153 00:09:37,171 --> 00:09:42,030 to go about really figuring out that return, I suppose. But as far as, you know, 154 00:09:42,510 --> 00:09:43,950 providing some kind of insight, 155 00:09:44,220 --> 00:09:47,550 what can be used to track these different metrics, you know, 156 00:09:47,551 --> 00:09:48,780 are there tools out there? 157 00:09:48,781 --> 00:09:52,890 How can our listeners who are interested in learning and doing more in this 158 00:09:52,891 --> 00:09:56,340 space, start to apply what it is that we're talking about today? 159 00:09:57,300 --> 00:10:01,230 Sure. So I'll answer this from that. The answer is, yes, 160 00:10:01,260 --> 00:10:05,940 there are many tools and many of the tools that you may see there's different 161 00:10:05,941 --> 00:10:09,810 dashboards that will measure it. They, they, from, 162 00:10:10,080 --> 00:10:13,500 from my research and investigation, 163 00:10:14,130 --> 00:10:15,930 many of these tools, 164 00:10:15,931 --> 00:10:20,100 the vast majority are based on something called the Eisenberg EMV. 165 00:10:21,510 --> 00:10:23,100 The Eisenberg EMV, 166 00:10:23,101 --> 00:10:27,690 and they released what they call the social media index. So, 167 00:10:27,750 --> 00:10:30,570 and what this index is, 168 00:10:30,571 --> 00:10:35,370 is they put a dollar amount on the likes, 169 00:10:35,700 --> 00:10:36,840 the shares, 170 00:10:37,170 --> 00:10:41,730 the engagement from various social media platform 171 00:10:41,770 --> 00:10:42,603 comments. 172 00:10:43,890 --> 00:10:47,970 So from Twitter to Tik Tok to Facebook, to Instagram, 173 00:10:47,971 --> 00:10:49,230 they have a whole list. 174 00:10:49,890 --> 00:10:54,390 So then you're able to put a dollar amount on your 175 00:10:54,391 --> 00:10:59,220 engagement. Why is that important? Well, again, we talked about the ROI, 176 00:10:59,550 --> 00:11:04,140 but now you can start measuring the impact and effectiveness in a 177 00:11:04,141 --> 00:11:08,730 dollar amount. So you may have a spin, you know, 178 00:11:08,731 --> 00:11:12,540 you spend 12,000, 15,000 on paid ads. 179 00:11:12,961 --> 00:11:17,670 Now you can take a look at that engagement from the paid ads 180 00:11:18,150 --> 00:11:22,770 and put a number on it and say, well, okay, this is really the net of it. 181 00:11:22,771 --> 00:11:27,570 This is the return on that investment. What we've gotten back from it as well. 182 00:11:27,571 --> 00:11:32,550 Now, the power of that ties into what they call earned media, 183 00:11:32,551 --> 00:11:36,810 which is outside what you post and what people are, are, 184 00:11:36,900 --> 00:11:41,100 really talking about you putting a value on that. 185 00:11:41,430 --> 00:11:43,920 And that's something that I think is very interesting, 186 00:11:43,921 --> 00:11:48,300 which can tie into community impact initiatives 187 00:11:48,630 --> 00:11:52,620 and spending money in those areas. And then posting, 188 00:11:53,890 --> 00:11:58,330 and then getting an ROI on that earned media from those particular initiatives. 189 00:11:59,260 --> 00:12:02,860 So that community impact that you were just discussing, 190 00:12:02,861 --> 00:12:06,790 I think will probably lead nicely into the last question I have for you here, 191 00:12:06,791 --> 00:12:07,990 because, you know, 192 00:12:07,991 --> 00:12:12,250 we talked a lot about business impact and putting dollars, right. 193 00:12:12,251 --> 00:12:15,490 Quantifying a lot of our activity and operations, 194 00:12:15,940 --> 00:12:20,470 but I'm sure there are parts of social media that businesses can't 195 00:12:20,471 --> 00:12:23,680 necessarily quantify or measure, right. So, 196 00:12:23,950 --> 00:12:27,730 and I guess if the answer to that is, yes, it's probably a two-fold response, 197 00:12:27,731 --> 00:12:30,550 right? There are certain things that the business can't measure, 198 00:12:30,760 --> 00:12:33,010 but can still be valuable, I suppose, 199 00:12:33,011 --> 00:12:35,680 kind of like what you were just talking about, but then, you know, 200 00:12:35,681 --> 00:12:38,980 maybe there are parts of social media that can't be measured and actually 201 00:12:38,981 --> 00:12:41,890 increases risk. I don't know. so, you know, 202 00:12:41,891 --> 00:12:45,310 are you able to share some insights into what other, you know, 203 00:12:45,311 --> 00:12:49,210 qualitative data points from social media businesses should be aware of? 204 00:12:50,200 --> 00:12:52,600 Oh, that's very good. So comments, 205 00:12:52,630 --> 00:12:56,650 so it's hard to measure comment what people are, 206 00:12:56,720 --> 00:12:58,300 are writing. I mean, 207 00:12:58,690 --> 00:13:03,670 you can and you'd have to read through all of the comments and try to find all 208 00:13:03,671 --> 00:13:05,740 of them, which can be challenging, 209 00:13:05,741 --> 00:13:08,380 but to find out what people are saying about you, that's, 210 00:13:08,381 --> 00:13:13,300 that's the hard part to measure and they call that 211 00:13:14,140 --> 00:13:16,450 consumer sentiment. So it's hard to quantify that, 212 00:13:16,451 --> 00:13:20,830 but you can take a look at your analytics as far as 213 00:13:21,160 --> 00:13:22,480 your, likes and, 214 00:13:22,481 --> 00:13:26,200 and your shares and engagement and impressions. 215 00:13:26,201 --> 00:13:31,090 So your engagement on your particular posts. One thing I would say for, 216 00:13:31,120 --> 00:13:35,770 let's say a smaller business owner that may be spending maybe 217 00:13:35,771 --> 00:13:40,660 $500 to $12,000 in paid 218 00:13:40,990 --> 00:13:44,080 advertisements. So their, their budget monthly, 219 00:13:44,320 --> 00:13:46,990 maybe between that $500. And, you know, 220 00:13:47,350 --> 00:13:52,300 let's say $12,000 range is to think about taking some of that 221 00:13:52,301 --> 00:13:54,910 money. And this is something we can advise our clients to, 222 00:13:54,911 --> 00:13:59,470 to try taking some of that money and potentially 223 00:13:59,500 --> 00:14:04,300 giving some of their product away, giving some of their product away, give, 224 00:14:04,360 --> 00:14:08,740 give $200 of the product, $2,000 of their product. 225 00:14:09,460 --> 00:14:10,140 If it's, 226 00:14:10,140 --> 00:14:14,830 let's say a t-shirt company give 2000 t-shirts to a 227 00:14:15,250 --> 00:14:19,720 boys club and then post it and then take a look at the 228 00:14:20,050 --> 00:14:22,660 engagement that they receive. 229 00:14:23,170 --> 00:14:27,400 Now there's indexes like the Eisenberg EMV. 230 00:14:27,700 --> 00:14:31,480 If you're not able to afford that, you can compare and contrast, 231 00:14:31,481 --> 00:14:32,680 take a look at the engagement. 232 00:14:32,681 --> 00:14:37,090 So this is why it's important to understand that dashboard and your data 233 00:14:37,091 --> 00:14:37,930 analytics, 234 00:14:38,080 --> 00:14:42,550 because you can take a look at your engagement from your paid ads, 235 00:14:43,380 --> 00:14:47,260 from your earned media. So from what you've done, 236 00:14:47,290 --> 00:14:52,250 and this can be an incentive for you to do some type of community initiative, 237 00:14:52,910 --> 00:14:57,650 right? And, and it could also generate more sales. 238 00:14:57,770 --> 00:15:02,000 So it could be a win-win on that side. So there's different ways to, 239 00:15:02,001 --> 00:15:06,560 to look at it, but I think it's important to understand it. 240 00:15:07,400 --> 00:15:11,630 And, and again, it comes down to, well, there's many points, 241 00:15:11,631 --> 00:15:14,600 but I think the two primary are the data and the funnels. 242 00:15:15,020 --> 00:15:17,870 So the information that engagement, 243 00:15:18,290 --> 00:15:22,580 and then the funnels leading to sales and understanding that. 244 00:15:25,220 --> 00:15:26,720 This has been Count Me In, 245 00:15:26,810 --> 00:15:31,100 IMA's podcast providing you with the latest perspectives of thought leaders from 246 00:15:31,101 --> 00:15:32,750 the accounting and finance profession. 247 00:15:32,870 --> 00:15:36,200 If you like what you heard and you'd like to be counted in for more relevant 248 00:15:36,201 --> 00:15:37,760 accounting and finance education, 249 00:15:37,880 --> 00:15:42,740 visit IMA's website at www.imanet.org.