1 00:00:05,190 --> 00:00:06,720 Welcome back to Count Me In, 2 00:00:06,940 --> 00:00:10,400 the podcast that explores the world of business from the management accountant's 3 00:00:10,401 --> 00:00:11,840 perspective. Today, 4 00:00:11,841 --> 00:00:15,960 we have a special edition as we take a closer look at the groundbreaking new 5 00:00:16,160 --> 00:00:19,720 DE&I solutions report produced in partnership by IMA, 6 00:00:20,140 --> 00:00:22,760 the International Federation of Accountants, or IFAC, 7 00:00:23,420 --> 00:00:26,200 and the California society of CPAs. The report, 8 00:00:26,520 --> 00:00:28,880 entitled Diversifying Global Accounting Talent: 9 00:00:28,881 --> 00:00:33,360 Actionable Solutions for Progress is now available on the IMA website. 10 00:00:33,830 --> 00:00:35,280 Just follow the link in the show notes. 11 00:00:36,120 --> 00:00:39,960 Here now to discuss the findings and why this report represents one, 12 00:00:40,020 --> 00:00:43,640 if not the largest collective of DE&I initiatives in the history of global 13 00:00:43,641 --> 00:00:47,880 accounting profession is Jeff Thomson, the president and CEO of IMA, 14 00:00:48,210 --> 00:00:52,159 Kevin Dancey, CEO of IFAC, and Denise LeDuc Froemming, 15 00:00:52,229 --> 00:00:55,360 president and CEO of CalCPA. Let's get started. 16 00:01:03,230 --> 00:01:06,880 Well, thank you so much, Kevin and Denise for joining this very, 17 00:01:06,881 --> 00:01:07,959 very important podcast. 18 00:01:08,410 --> 00:01:12,160 We're all committed to increasing the relevance and influence of our great 19 00:01:12,161 --> 00:01:16,480 profession and talent pipeline and talent retention, 20 00:01:16,580 --> 00:01:18,640 and certainly diversity, equity, 21 00:01:18,800 --> 00:01:22,480 and inclusion is an important part of that equation. I'm very, 22 00:01:22,481 --> 00:01:27,440 very proud and honored to have partnered with both IFAC and Cal state side 23 00:01:27,441 --> 00:01:31,840 of CPAs in this groundbreaking DE&I research our 24 00:01:31,841 --> 00:01:35,520 organizations have collaborated on over the past bunch of months. 25 00:01:36,600 --> 00:01:41,400 I believe that the breadth and depth of topics covered and really getting close 26 00:01:41,520 --> 00:01:46,520 to the issues at hand is arguably unsurpassed by any other study out there, 27 00:01:46,580 --> 00:01:48,440 but it's not a competition, 28 00:01:48,441 --> 00:01:53,320 it's about improving the profession and its its relevance and an age 29 00:01:53,321 --> 00:01:56,880 of disruption and uncertainty. You know, there were some hard truths, 30 00:01:57,390 --> 00:02:01,960 hard data points that came out of the surveys that we did 31 00:02:02,361 --> 00:02:05,880 both in the US and around the world, the Middle East, Africa, Europe, 32 00:02:06,260 --> 00:02:09,919 and Southeast Asia. Speaking about inequity, for example, 33 00:02:10,250 --> 00:02:15,160 fewer than 60% of the 8,000 sampled believe the profession is 34 00:02:15,190 --> 00:02:17,840 equitable or inclusive, that's a startling number. 35 00:02:17,860 --> 00:02:21,200 And so it very much is a call to action to partner together, 36 00:02:21,940 --> 00:02:24,960 to understand how we can create diverse pipelines, 37 00:02:25,380 --> 00:02:30,320 how we can create an incredibly diverse and inclusive profession because of 38 00:02:30,321 --> 00:02:34,639 an overarching perspective that improves the attractiveness of the profession 39 00:02:35,139 --> 00:02:40,000 to all types of individuals and our relevance and influence going forward is 40 00:02:40,001 --> 00:02:42,000 absolutely paramount. Look, 41 00:02:42,001 --> 00:02:46,960 we can't touch on every point in the research that came up in this particular 42 00:02:46,961 --> 00:02:51,040 podcast, but would love to hear your reactions. For example, 43 00:02:51,139 --> 00:02:55,840 to the more than 70 specific actionable practices 44 00:02:56,230 --> 00:02:57,680 recommended in the report. 45 00:02:58,260 --> 00:03:02,600 These over 70 actionable practices have been mapped back to the 46 00:03:03,000 --> 00:03:07,880 17 UN sustainable goals, sustainability goals for 2030, 47 00:03:08,460 --> 00:03:12,120 for example, goals on quality education, gender equality, 48 00:03:12,780 --> 00:03:14,560 and reducing inequality. 49 00:03:14,780 --> 00:03:19,760 So let's talk about some of the findings and I need to be quiet 50 00:03:20,041 --> 00:03:23,280 and listen and learn. So according to the research, 51 00:03:23,370 --> 00:03:28,320 there is greater diversity across the broader profession than in 52 00:03:28,321 --> 00:03:32,840 leadership positions. In a comparison of female respondents, job titles, 53 00:03:32,841 --> 00:03:34,639 across all regions, 54 00:03:34,640 --> 00:03:39,440 to those of male respondents with similar education levels and experience, 55 00:03:39,580 --> 00:03:44,560 it was revealed that male respondents are holding more senior positions 56 00:03:44,870 --> 00:03:49,120 than in females. And that typically also extends to other diverse groups. 57 00:03:50,100 --> 00:03:50,780 Second, 58 00:03:50,780 --> 00:03:55,240 the research points to women and members of other diverse demographic groups in 59 00:03:55,320 --> 00:04:00,200 each region believing there is some level of inequitable treatment and 60 00:04:00,270 --> 00:04:05,200 exclusive behaviors that impacted career decisions and prompted some 61 00:04:06,480 --> 00:04:10,120 actually about 12% to actually leave our great profession. 62 00:04:10,900 --> 00:04:15,120 So starting with Denise as a leader in our profession, 63 00:04:15,670 --> 00:04:20,400 what is your reaction to the findings in this area of gender and other 64 00:04:20,490 --> 00:04:22,360 forms and inequities, inequalities, 65 00:04:22,900 --> 00:04:27,279 and similar challenges you're facing in a very diverse state of California. 66 00:04:27,750 --> 00:04:28,583 Denise? 67 00:04:28,790 --> 00:04:30,320 Well, thank you first. Thank you, Jeff, 68 00:04:30,580 --> 00:04:35,120 for having me on the podcast today really appreciate being here and also 69 00:04:35,490 --> 00:04:36,560 thank you for just, 70 00:04:36,561 --> 00:04:41,279 we really appreciate partnering with IFAC and IMA on the 71 00:04:41,280 --> 00:04:43,960 survey. It's very important as you said, 72 00:04:44,020 --> 00:04:46,320 and there's a lot of great actionable items, 73 00:04:46,321 --> 00:04:48,320 which I was so happy to see within the survey, 74 00:04:48,640 --> 00:04:53,080 cuz it gives others a pathway to move forward. So that's important. You know, 75 00:04:53,081 --> 00:04:55,560 in regards to gender parity, I think COVID, 76 00:04:55,620 --> 00:04:59,080 we could all probably agree that it didn't really help on the advancement and 77 00:04:59,081 --> 00:05:03,960 the momentum that we had in 2019 on with women within the 78 00:05:03,961 --> 00:05:07,400 workforce. A lot of women left to take care of their families, 79 00:05:07,420 --> 00:05:09,800 no judgment there it's just what happened. It's the reality. 80 00:05:10,690 --> 00:05:15,600 Often I think women and diverse populations are underutilized 81 00:05:15,601 --> 00:05:16,640 within the profession. 82 00:05:16,950 --> 00:05:20,880 They aren't provided the opportunities to stand up and to 83 00:05:22,010 --> 00:05:26,760 learn new skills or competencies. So I did talk to Dr. 84 00:05:27,339 --> 00:05:30,200 Mithu Dey from Howard University. And she had said too, 85 00:05:30,201 --> 00:05:32,080 that there's research out there. 86 00:05:32,081 --> 00:05:35,640 And she mostly looks at the black accountants and their experience, 87 00:05:35,740 --> 00:05:40,240 but she said advancement and retention challenges are really the result of them 88 00:05:40,380 --> 00:05:42,960 not obtaining assignments that help them develop. 89 00:05:44,140 --> 00:05:48,520 And they don't have the social networks a lot of times to provide that informal 90 00:05:48,521 --> 00:05:51,040 career advancement. And I think we could all agree. 91 00:05:51,200 --> 00:05:55,760 I know myself that I've benefited from others helping 92 00:05:56,140 --> 00:05:59,600 me to move ahead, giving me opportunities. And if you don't have that, 93 00:05:59,900 --> 00:06:01,120 that's definitely a gap. 94 00:06:01,700 --> 00:06:06,560 And it also provides you with the thought that maybe you wanna leave the 95 00:06:06,561 --> 00:06:09,400 profession because you don't have the network and you don't feel that sense of 96 00:06:09,401 --> 00:06:14,320 belonging or welcomed environment within maybe the organization that you're in. 97 00:06:15,580 --> 00:06:20,320 And there's a lot of statistics out there that really promote the fact 98 00:06:20,470 --> 00:06:24,520 that there is not equitable treatment all the time. 99 00:06:24,700 --> 00:06:29,560 So a lot of times we say to see me is to be me. And I think, 100 00:06:29,700 --> 00:06:31,680 you know, Heather has said that at times as well, 101 00:06:32,060 --> 00:06:36,040 and it's really having that awareness and acknowledgement that there is a gap 102 00:06:36,260 --> 00:06:39,400 within the profession and understanding that gap. 103 00:06:39,820 --> 00:06:43,040 So you have to know where you're at to know where you need to go a lot of times. 104 00:06:43,980 --> 00:06:44,481 So it's, 105 00:06:44,481 --> 00:06:49,000 it's on the acknowledgement and awareness that the profession does have a gap. 106 00:06:49,060 --> 00:06:53,400 And then also the belief that there is an untapped resource out there and that 107 00:06:53,401 --> 00:06:57,640 will provide the leadership and the innovation to move the organization forward. 108 00:06:58,300 --> 00:07:03,279 And also having that as a priority within the organization and the tone 109 00:07:03,280 --> 00:07:04,060 at the top, 110 00:07:04,060 --> 00:07:08,800 making sure that it is within the fabric of the organization to have DE&I 111 00:07:09,660 --> 00:07:12,000 at the forefront and have programs that support that. 112 00:07:12,580 --> 00:07:15,800 So essentially having it hardwired within the organization. 113 00:07:17,360 --> 00:07:20,480 Right. Thank you, Denise so much. And you know, before I turn it over to Kevin, 114 00:07:21,640 --> 00:07:24,280 I think three of us would probably agree very, 115 00:07:24,281 --> 00:07:26,880 very passionately that we've got a great profession. 116 00:07:27,580 --> 00:07:31,240 We need to do a better job at telling the story of the professions, 117 00:07:31,420 --> 00:07:33,280 making a difference in society. 118 00:07:34,121 --> 00:07:38,760 But we also have to create a better story and to see it is very powerful. Kevin, 119 00:07:39,161 --> 00:07:43,720 what's your thoughts on the question of gender parity and retention or similar 120 00:07:43,770 --> 00:07:47,120 challenges for other diverse groups from an IFAC perspective, 121 00:07:47,620 --> 00:07:50,920 you get to see the world actually, which is pretty incredible. 122 00:07:51,790 --> 00:07:55,370 Thanks, Jeff. And thanks for having me here today as well. 123 00:07:55,610 --> 00:07:58,930 I think Denise has covered a lot of the points quite well, 124 00:07:59,030 --> 00:08:03,370 but it's very clear that in terms of advancement and retention 125 00:08:04,070 --> 00:08:06,290 we really have work to do as a profession. 126 00:08:07,330 --> 00:08:10,490 I think it's showing in the data from the four regional studies, you know, 127 00:08:10,491 --> 00:08:12,210 more than 60% of female respondents 128 00:08:13,790 --> 00:08:18,650 as well as members of diverse demographic groups explored in each regional study 129 00:08:19,390 --> 00:08:24,290 report personally experiencing inequitable or exclusive treatment in the 130 00:08:24,291 --> 00:08:29,170 accounting profession that they have perceived to be rooted in biased against 131 00:08:29,171 --> 00:08:30,010 people like them. 132 00:08:31,440 --> 00:08:36,290 Also 12% of women have also indicated that these inequitable and exclusive 133 00:08:36,291 --> 00:08:40,570 experiences have contributed to their decision to leave the profession 134 00:08:40,970 --> 00:08:41,803 altogether. 135 00:08:42,230 --> 00:08:46,890 So these numbers are upsetting but reinforced that we must do more as a 136 00:08:46,891 --> 00:08:51,170 profession to ensure a comfortable, inclusive work environment. But I think, 137 00:08:51,429 --> 00:08:51,731 you know, 138 00:08:51,731 --> 00:08:56,679 one of the great things about that report is that now not only do we 139 00:08:56,680 --> 00:09:01,600 have some really good data to base our risk responses 140 00:09:01,800 --> 00:09:02,633 on going forward, 141 00:09:03,220 --> 00:09:06,920 but that the report really tries to get to pragmatic solutions that the 142 00:09:06,921 --> 00:09:09,080 profession can adopt. And I know throughout this podcast, 143 00:09:09,580 --> 00:09:11,520 we will delve into some of those as well. 144 00:09:12,640 --> 00:09:17,559 Great. Kevin, thank you for those thoughts. By the way, just going back to, 145 00:09:17,780 --> 00:09:19,280 if we're allowed to go back on this podcast, 146 00:09:19,281 --> 00:09:24,040 but going back to something Denise said that I think you 147 00:09:24,590 --> 00:09:28,559 also alluded to is, you know, it does seem that disruptive events, 148 00:09:28,670 --> 00:09:33,559 whether it's the pandemic or other disruptions that we've all seen and 149 00:09:33,710 --> 00:09:37,760 felt does seem to disproportionately impact females, 150 00:09:38,130 --> 00:09:41,920 lower income caregivers, et cetera, et cetera. So we've gotta be very, 151 00:09:41,921 --> 00:09:46,640 very careful that as we plan for the future and make some bold 152 00:09:46,650 --> 00:09:47,483 steps forward, 153 00:09:47,500 --> 00:09:51,840 we take into account that things are probably gonna get more challenging rather 154 00:09:51,841 --> 00:09:53,559 than less. So thank you for that. 155 00:09:54,300 --> 00:09:58,240 So we've alluded to the fact that in this groundbreaking research 156 00:09:59,201 --> 00:10:03,880 there were well over 70 actionable practices that were 157 00:10:04,220 --> 00:10:08,800 put together through benchmarking through think tanks and through other 158 00:10:09,241 --> 00:10:11,520 means as we indicated earlier, 159 00:10:12,000 --> 00:10:16,559 they are mapped back to the 17 UN sustainable goals for 160 00:10:16,560 --> 00:10:21,080 2030. And there's many examples for instance, 161 00:10:21,660 --> 00:10:24,840 in attracting groups to the accounting profession. 162 00:10:25,309 --> 00:10:29,640 There's the thoughts of more communications and outreach to 163 00:10:30,500 --> 00:10:31,600 underrepresented groups. 164 00:10:31,780 --> 00:10:36,280 Are we being creative and innovative and comprehensive in our 165 00:10:36,600 --> 00:10:39,880 outreach to bringing in new talent into our organizations, 166 00:10:40,340 --> 00:10:43,760 things like anonymizing - am I saying that - anonymizing resumes 167 00:10:46,010 --> 00:10:50,080 prior to having them received during the recruitment process to minimize the 168 00:10:50,320 --> 00:10:55,240 effect of bias and these 70 or so ideas or initiatives 169 00:10:55,260 --> 00:10:59,480 or practices are grouped into two categories in the report, 170 00:10:59,481 --> 00:11:03,240 if you recall on the there's the attracting talent, 171 00:11:03,500 --> 00:11:08,320 and then there's also retaining and developing or developing and retaining. 172 00:11:08,670 --> 00:11:13,280 Another example is in terms of attracting talent developed 173 00:11:13,281 --> 00:11:18,200 partnerships with primary schools and local organizations that demystify 174 00:11:18,201 --> 00:11:21,240 accounting roles to youth. So even starting earlier, 175 00:11:22,010 --> 00:11:26,800 right in the bid to tell the story of this great profession. 176 00:11:27,380 --> 00:11:29,120 So Kevin start with you, 177 00:11:29,121 --> 00:11:32,480 what's your take on the 70 practices? 178 00:11:32,780 --> 00:11:36,320 How do you prioritize them? How do you get going? 179 00:11:37,220 --> 00:11:42,040 What are some things perhaps IFAC has done either on the attract and or 180 00:11:42,220 --> 00:11:44,040 retain developed side? 181 00:11:45,300 --> 00:11:46,840 Thanks, Jeff. You know, 182 00:11:47,040 --> 00:11:51,200 while it appears as an easy to implement practice I don't think we should get 183 00:11:51,201 --> 00:11:54,679 ourselves and it will be quick or easy for that matter. 184 00:11:55,330 --> 00:12:00,120 Cuz I think removing unconscious bias from decision making really is a lifelong 185 00:12:00,400 --> 00:12:03,720 learning process. And we need to work on undoing, frankly, 186 00:12:03,950 --> 00:12:07,280 generations of systematic bias. You know, 187 00:12:07,309 --> 00:12:09,000 with respect to attracting talent, 188 00:12:10,340 --> 00:12:14,900 one de facto place to start which you alluded to is by utilizing software 189 00:12:15,421 --> 00:12:20,020 to remove names from resumes or gender specific language from job postings, 190 00:12:20,980 --> 00:12:25,100 because doing so puts the focus on the requirements of the job and the 191 00:12:25,101 --> 00:12:29,410 professional capabilities of the person without regard for demographic 192 00:12:29,470 --> 00:12:31,370 characteristics. So that's one example. 193 00:12:33,570 --> 00:12:37,250 I think another area that will be important for us to focus on is how we are 194 00:12:37,410 --> 00:12:40,490 encouraging young people to enter that profession to begin with. 195 00:12:40,690 --> 00:12:44,050 And I think this gets back to the point you alluded to earlier in terms of 196 00:12:44,051 --> 00:12:47,650 getting our story out there and getting our story out there in the right way. 197 00:12:48,429 --> 00:12:53,210 If we don't have good diversity, you know, right now at that point, 198 00:12:53,510 --> 00:12:54,450 why not, you know, 199 00:12:54,470 --> 00:12:59,170 for people entering the profession and are the job postings off putting 200 00:12:59,320 --> 00:13:02,050 towards, you know, specific demographic groups? 201 00:13:03,090 --> 00:13:07,610 I think these are the questions we need to explore because ultimately our work 202 00:13:07,611 --> 00:13:11,929 starts with marketing the profession as a viable and desirable career path to 203 00:13:12,030 --> 00:13:14,130 all. And I think, you know, 204 00:13:14,131 --> 00:13:18,900 with all the work going on in the world today around sustainability 205 00:13:18,901 --> 00:13:21,220 reporting and ESG reporting, et cetera, 206 00:13:22,260 --> 00:13:26,760 I really think we can position this profession as one with a real sense of 207 00:13:26,761 --> 00:13:30,679 purpose going forward, which I think will be attractive to the next generation. 208 00:13:31,120 --> 00:13:35,040 So I think it's really important to weave that into our story going forward in 209 00:13:35,041 --> 00:13:39,120 terms of the sense of purpose that an individual can have and also how that will 210 00:13:39,121 --> 00:13:43,240 lead to a viable and desirable career path, 211 00:13:44,600 --> 00:13:48,440 kind of another effective place to start could be by providing internship 212 00:13:48,640 --> 00:13:50,520 programs to undergraduate students. 213 00:13:50,940 --> 00:13:55,640 We've done this the last couple of years at IFAC and one of our interns from 214 00:13:55,641 --> 00:13:59,600 last year's summer program is now working for PWC. So again, 215 00:13:59,601 --> 00:14:04,600 just looking at different new ways in terms of engaging young 216 00:14:04,880 --> 00:14:05,800 people with our profession going forward. 217 00:14:07,400 --> 00:14:09,120 I think there are options there for to explore. 218 00:14:11,480 --> 00:14:15,480 Great, great thoughts, Kevin, and as a proud member of IFAC, 219 00:14:16,200 --> 00:14:21,080 I wanna thank you and IFAC for its proactive statements and initiatives 220 00:14:21,681 --> 00:14:23,400 working with the IFS foundation, 221 00:14:23,401 --> 00:14:27,040 others to make ESG environment, 222 00:14:27,041 --> 00:14:29,800 social governance and integral part of our profession, 223 00:14:29,801 --> 00:14:34,680 where we can make a difference in terms of unbiased results and 224 00:14:35,121 --> 00:14:37,040 results with a reasonable level of insurance. 225 00:14:37,700 --> 00:14:41,960 It's all about making a difference and being a purpose driven organization. 226 00:14:42,420 --> 00:14:43,480 If we do that well, 227 00:14:43,540 --> 00:14:47,920 we will attract a whole new set of inspired students 228 00:14:48,860 --> 00:14:52,080 not to mention the move toward data analytics. So Denise, 229 00:14:52,090 --> 00:14:54,840 going back to you know, the question at hand, 230 00:14:55,360 --> 00:15:00,320 I know in some media interviews yourself and Heather on your team have done a 231 00:15:00,321 --> 00:15:04,720 really nice job at articulating some of what you're implementing at Cal state 232 00:15:05,000 --> 00:15:05,801 side of CPAs, 233 00:15:05,801 --> 00:15:10,240 but what is your thoughts as well on the 70 plus actionable 234 00:15:10,600 --> 00:15:14,760 practices and how organizations can get going get started and 235 00:15:15,350 --> 00:15:16,183 keep it moving. 236 00:15:16,500 --> 00:15:18,600 Mm-hmm, I do agree. I mean, 237 00:15:18,601 --> 00:15:23,560 with both of you that having that 70 actionable practices provides a starting 238 00:15:23,561 --> 00:15:25,240 point, a great starting point for anyone. 239 00:15:25,550 --> 00:15:30,440 It's kind of a menu in which you can choose where you're at and 240 00:15:30,441 --> 00:15:32,240 the next step that you wanna move forward on. 241 00:15:32,241 --> 00:15:36,160 So it allows you to customize in a way, a pathway or a roadmap forward. 242 00:15:36,580 --> 00:15:40,400 So I think that's helpful cuz everyone's in a different spot and they need to be 243 00:15:40,401 --> 00:15:45,000 able to see and have that pathway of how others have implemented. 244 00:15:45,680 --> 00:15:49,840 I think a good starting point first is to really have a committee or a group 245 00:15:50,190 --> 00:15:53,720 that can be that village or that team to help promote, 246 00:15:53,721 --> 00:15:57,520 nurture and support a program. Because without that, 247 00:15:58,220 --> 00:16:00,760 you are just going in many different directions, 248 00:16:00,880 --> 00:16:02,960 a lot of time and you don't have a focus pathway forward. 249 00:16:02,960 --> 00:16:06,720 So I think that's a really good beginning point for anyone and to make sure that 250 00:16:06,721 --> 00:16:10,360 you have the members and you have buy in from various groups and stakeholders, 251 00:16:10,880 --> 00:16:14,240 cuz that helps you move forward in a more deliberate and intentional way. 252 00:16:14,840 --> 00:16:19,080 I would say also to have awareness and look at, do an audit, 253 00:16:19,180 --> 00:16:24,080 to see where you're at truly, what are, what position are you in currently? 254 00:16:24,640 --> 00:16:26,160 Cuz then you can know, like I said before, 255 00:16:26,161 --> 00:16:30,920 where you need to go and what you need to put into place and share the plan with 256 00:16:30,921 --> 00:16:32,600 others, have that tone at the top, 257 00:16:32,601 --> 00:16:36,520 make sure there is buy-in by others because without that, 258 00:16:36,550 --> 00:16:38,120 it's really difficult to move forward. 259 00:16:38,180 --> 00:16:40,880 And I would agree with what both you and Kevin said on the story. 260 00:16:41,380 --> 00:16:45,960 We have to be able to tell a compelling story that resonates with different 261 00:16:46,030 --> 00:16:48,640 audiences. So it isn't always the same message, 262 00:16:49,340 --> 00:16:54,240 but it has an element of a message that is really at 263 00:16:54,241 --> 00:16:59,080 the heart of what others are looking for because every different 264 00:16:59,081 --> 00:17:01,120 diverse group wants something different. 265 00:17:01,120 --> 00:17:04,920 We hear that a lot of individuals that want to come into accounting want that 266 00:17:05,260 --> 00:17:07,640 are attracted to the entrepreneurship that is available. 267 00:17:08,340 --> 00:17:11,560 So we have to be able to tell the story in different ways that resonate with 268 00:17:11,561 --> 00:17:14,800 different audiences. And I would say it's, 269 00:17:15,580 --> 00:17:19,160 it is a profession I love, I wear my I love CPAs button, 270 00:17:19,300 --> 00:17:20,880 but it is my profession. 271 00:17:21,340 --> 00:17:24,600 So it's important to me that it is sustainable going forward. 272 00:17:24,760 --> 00:17:29,000 And I think we're poised to really comment on and be involved in many of the new 273 00:17:29,270 --> 00:17:31,720 initiatives that are out there, ESG being one of them. 274 00:17:32,609 --> 00:17:36,720 Great. Great. Thank you. And Denise, while we're on a bit of a roll here, so, 275 00:17:36,721 --> 00:17:37,241 you know, 276 00:17:37,241 --> 00:17:42,240 we've spent a bit of time on the attracting talent and telling the story and 277 00:17:42,241 --> 00:17:43,320 making the story even better. 278 00:17:43,930 --> 00:17:48,800 Let's talk a little bit more about the retaining and promoting 279 00:17:48,801 --> 00:17:53,160 diverse talent for the longer term outcome of creating a sense of 280 00:17:53,270 --> 00:17:56,400 belonging, culture of belonging. You know, 281 00:17:56,401 --> 00:18:00,400 a quote I read on some of the research on hybrid work said belonging is all 282 00:18:00,401 --> 00:18:04,840 about leadership. It's not about location, right? Which we're all dealing with. 283 00:18:04,980 --> 00:18:09,800 I'm sure some of the recommendations in the report on the retain and promote 284 00:18:09,869 --> 00:18:12,440 side includes offering onsite daycare, 285 00:18:12,720 --> 00:18:15,040 establishing or expanding parental leave, 286 00:18:15,650 --> 00:18:20,440 collecting demographic data to assess equity Kevin's point about let's use 287 00:18:20,441 --> 00:18:25,160 data science to help in our recruiting efforts and regularly 288 00:18:25,161 --> 00:18:28,680 engaging with staff or members in a association, 289 00:18:28,740 --> 00:18:33,320 for example to assess employee sentiments toward DNI, DE&I, 290 00:18:33,740 --> 00:18:36,520 why are we even talking about it? Is that for us to be doing well? 291 00:18:36,580 --> 00:18:38,560 How is that an integral part of the profession? 292 00:18:38,660 --> 00:18:41,880 So what are your thoughts on some of these actions or, 293 00:18:42,240 --> 00:18:47,200 or thoughts initiatives in the area of promoting and retaining and how can we 294 00:18:47,201 --> 00:18:48,034 lead by example? 295 00:18:48,680 --> 00:18:50,840 I would say just to your point, 296 00:18:51,080 --> 00:18:55,640 facilitating that inclusive work culture and that sense of 297 00:18:55,641 --> 00:19:00,040 belonging is extremely important for everyone. 298 00:19:00,060 --> 00:19:01,440 And it isn't just, as you said, 299 00:19:01,540 --> 00:19:04,760 within the confines of the physical office space, 300 00:19:04,980 --> 00:19:09,760 but it is feeling that you're valued within that organization and 301 00:19:09,761 --> 00:19:14,680 having the DE&I programs that thrive in our avenues to 302 00:19:15,441 --> 00:19:18,840 really speak up and for you to be yourself at work, 303 00:19:19,190 --> 00:19:23,520 I've heard so many times is extremely important to everyone within the 304 00:19:23,761 --> 00:19:27,480 organization and to have that support with the tone at the top and having 305 00:19:27,481 --> 00:19:32,320 leaders that support kind of where you're going and understand really 306 00:19:32,790 --> 00:19:36,880 what you value within the organization and where you need to go professionally 307 00:19:37,260 --> 00:19:38,093 and having mentors. 308 00:19:38,280 --> 00:19:42,560 I think mentors are really important within an organization and sponsors so that 309 00:19:42,561 --> 00:19:45,000 you feel there is a pathway for you to move forward. 310 00:19:45,260 --> 00:19:47,520 And I hear that with the members as well, 311 00:19:47,820 --> 00:19:52,720 having that mentor so that they know the pathway that is available 312 00:19:52,859 --> 00:19:53,692 to them, 313 00:19:53,840 --> 00:19:58,680 cuz it's difficult sometimes to move forward and to know where to go and having 314 00:19:58,681 --> 00:20:03,640 someone that's in your corner that can provide the roadmap is extremely helpful. 315 00:20:03,780 --> 00:20:08,320 And I think a statistic that I've heard is that 70% of underrepresented 316 00:20:08,660 --> 00:20:13,280 racial and ethnic groups do not have equitable access to sponsors or mentors. 317 00:20:14,460 --> 00:20:16,359 And that's extremely important. 318 00:20:16,601 --> 00:20:21,240 Because we all need that support within the organization to help us move forward 319 00:20:21,241 --> 00:20:23,000 in our career. And without that, 320 00:20:23,180 --> 00:20:26,680 you just don't really know a lot of times where to go next and what that next 321 00:20:26,681 --> 00:20:27,514 step is. 322 00:20:27,859 --> 00:20:32,600 That's great. And Kevin alluded to the importance of internship programs, 323 00:20:32,619 --> 00:20:33,920 but mentoring programs, 324 00:20:33,940 --> 00:20:38,720 mutual coaching programs we have to dig deeper and more innovatively. 325 00:20:38,780 --> 00:20:41,600 So great. Thank you so much, Denise, shifting gears a little bit, 326 00:20:41,780 --> 00:20:45,480 I'm sure we'd all agree that one of the cornerstones or table stakes for our 327 00:20:45,481 --> 00:20:49,280 profession is commitment to professional ethics. 328 00:20:49,740 --> 00:20:53,480 The international ethics standards board for accounting takes this very, 329 00:20:53,481 --> 00:20:55,320 very seriously. Kevin, 330 00:20:56,180 --> 00:21:01,160 the general question is what is the relationship between DE&I 331 00:21:01,859 --> 00:21:05,400 and ethics and even ethics codes, for example, 332 00:21:05,520 --> 00:21:10,160 should there be direct or indirect reference to DE&I in 333 00:21:10,580 --> 00:21:15,520 ethics codes is probably the broader question for consideration. 334 00:21:16,920 --> 00:21:18,000 Thanks Jeff. Great question. 335 00:21:18,680 --> 00:21:23,040 I think I'd start by saying inherently ethics and DE&I are linked together. 336 00:21:23,619 --> 00:21:24,800 As accountants, 337 00:21:24,801 --> 00:21:28,480 we have a responsibility to uphold the highest standard of ethics and make fair 338 00:21:28,680 --> 00:21:32,760 decisions free from bias. So that's kind of a fundamental principle 101. 339 00:21:33,800 --> 00:21:34,680 And I think in the report, 340 00:21:35,109 --> 00:21:40,040 it's outlined that compliance along with the IESBA code of ethics principles 341 00:21:40,660 --> 00:21:43,760 can help support the effectiveness of DE&I programs. 342 00:21:44,300 --> 00:21:48,640 Now while the IESBA code does not expressly address DE&I 343 00:21:49,910 --> 00:21:54,000 it's overarching requirements note the importance of having ethical values that 344 00:21:54,001 --> 00:21:58,600 align internal organizational cultures to the principles of ethics in 345 00:21:59,040 --> 00:22:01,520 the code and compliance with the codes, 346 00:22:01,521 --> 00:22:05,880 principles of ethics can help support the effectiveness of DE&I programs, 347 00:22:06,820 --> 00:22:10,840 you know, for example compliance with integrity involves fair dealing. 348 00:22:11,869 --> 00:22:15,440 Fair dealing includes respecting and promoting values of DE&I. 349 00:22:17,490 --> 00:22:21,940 Also compliance with the principle of professional behavior lead a 350 00:22:21,941 --> 00:22:26,540 professional accountant to avoid being associated with discriminatory or biased 351 00:22:26,780 --> 00:22:30,580 practices that are not aligned with fundamental tenants of DE&I, 352 00:22:31,280 --> 00:22:36,180 and consequently, the organization's DE&I related programs and policies. 353 00:22:37,890 --> 00:22:41,790 The code also imposes our responsibility for professional accounts to take 354 00:22:41,791 --> 00:22:46,390 action if they become aware of or suspect non-compliance with 355 00:22:46,900 --> 00:22:48,070 laws and regulations, 356 00:22:48,440 --> 00:22:52,150 which would include DE&I related laws and regulations. 357 00:22:52,290 --> 00:22:57,230 So there's quite a bit of connectivity and alignment between DE&I 358 00:22:58,010 --> 00:23:00,070 and ethics for professional accountants. 359 00:23:00,970 --> 00:23:04,350 Thank you, Kevin so much for those thoughts on the fact that DE&I, 360 00:23:05,130 --> 00:23:09,710 and sound ethics are linked and joined at the Hep 361 00:23:09,930 --> 00:23:10,950 as mutual enablers. 362 00:23:11,330 --> 00:23:15,950 We already talked about the fact that as we evolve into ESG: 363 00:23:15,951 --> 00:23:18,310 environmental, social and governance aspects, 364 00:23:18,380 --> 00:23:21,070 that there too a diverse, 365 00:23:21,340 --> 00:23:25,750 equitable and inclusive environment goes hand in hand. So the S, 366 00:23:25,751 --> 00:23:30,630 the social aspect of ESG talks about human capital and board 367 00:23:30,631 --> 00:23:32,270 diversity, and so very, very, 368 00:23:32,271 --> 00:23:36,470 very important for professional and accountants and business to play a leading 369 00:23:36,540 --> 00:23:39,670 role. So, as we wrap up, as we know, 370 00:23:39,671 --> 00:23:44,670 more than 60 professional accountancy organizations around the globe joined us 371 00:23:44,810 --> 00:23:49,760 as we call DE&I advocates committing their organizations to collaborative 372 00:23:49,780 --> 00:23:50,760 action for change. 373 00:23:51,420 --> 00:23:56,320 This is a grand opportunity to address and mitigate the risk and 374 00:23:56,321 --> 00:24:00,520 seize opportunity to grow and expand the diversity, relevance, 375 00:24:00,521 --> 00:24:02,960 and influence of our great profession. So, 376 00:24:02,961 --> 00:24:07,040 given the magnitude of this and the opportunity here, start with Denise, 377 00:24:07,750 --> 00:24:11,720 what closing thoughts would you give to kind of capture the 378 00:24:12,921 --> 00:24:13,754 path forward? 379 00:24:14,470 --> 00:24:17,630 I would say first, just have conversations. 380 00:24:18,210 --> 00:24:21,750 So you understand where you're at and you have the awareness that you need, 381 00:24:22,090 --> 00:24:26,910 and then take action, take a step forward, lean in and do something. 382 00:24:27,420 --> 00:24:31,109 Because a lot of times there's a lot of conversation and we need to really take 383 00:24:31,110 --> 00:24:31,530 action. 384 00:24:31,530 --> 00:24:36,310 So I would urge anyone who signed on our CalCPA members to take 385 00:24:36,630 --> 00:24:40,910 immediate action and utilize those 70 action steps, select one, 386 00:24:41,240 --> 00:24:43,990 reach out there's organizations that are noted on there, 387 00:24:44,109 --> 00:24:49,070 reach out to an organization and ask for help because everyone 388 00:24:49,300 --> 00:24:53,550 will help and assist. And they're more than willing to give you a hand up. 389 00:24:53,810 --> 00:24:56,270 So I would say, have a conversation, 390 00:24:56,740 --> 00:25:01,030 take an action and enlist those leaders and stakeholders that you feel could 391 00:25:01,031 --> 00:25:04,550 help you move forward. It's extremely important. And just, 392 00:25:04,560 --> 00:25:09,150 we're so happy that we had the 60 that signed on cuz it shows the interest and 393 00:25:09,151 --> 00:25:11,950 the commitment to DE&I, and moving forward. 394 00:25:12,830 --> 00:25:13,940 Great. Thank you so much, 395 00:25:13,941 --> 00:25:18,900 Denise and a hundred percent agree having conversations and many of them with 396 00:25:19,220 --> 00:25:21,900 multiple stakeholders critically important. Kevin, 397 00:25:21,930 --> 00:25:26,140 what are your closing words of inspiration here? Put you on the spot. 398 00:25:27,440 --> 00:25:29,660 I think the important next step, Jeff, 399 00:25:29,720 --> 00:25:34,660 is to begin to take new actions as a result of what we've learned and the report 400 00:25:34,690 --> 00:25:39,660 generated an inventory of more than 70 actionable DE&I practices each 401 00:25:39,680 --> 00:25:43,340 map to relevant UN SDGs, which millions of accountants can implement. 402 00:25:44,300 --> 00:25:45,200 And as you said earlier, 403 00:25:45,260 --> 00:25:49,880 the actionable DE&I practices fall into one of two overarching categories that 404 00:25:50,080 --> 00:25:53,280 represent necessary strategic objectives for the accountancy professions, 405 00:25:54,040 --> 00:25:55,080 DE&I efforts, 406 00:25:55,140 --> 00:25:59,000 the first was attracting diverse talent and the second was retaining and 407 00:25:59,001 --> 00:26:00,440 promoting that diverse talent, 408 00:26:01,680 --> 00:26:05,410 effective solutions are needed to increase representation at all. Career levels, 409 00:26:05,880 --> 00:26:09,290 effectively measure DE&I progress and at coordinated, 410 00:26:09,291 --> 00:26:13,490 widespread improvement across the profession. Bottom line, Jeff, 411 00:26:13,510 --> 00:26:17,050 is that the time is now to affect change and unite the profession in a 412 00:26:17,051 --> 00:26:19,130 collaborative approach to solving these challenges. 413 00:26:21,030 --> 00:26:25,500 Great. Thank you so much, Kevin and IFAC, and Denise and CalCPAs. 414 00:26:26,960 --> 00:26:29,300 It's been a privilege speaking with you today. 415 00:26:30,140 --> 00:26:32,700 I can't tell you how proud I am personally, 416 00:26:33,380 --> 00:26:37,580 and on behalf of IMA for partnering with you on this groundbreaking and 417 00:26:37,581 --> 00:26:39,540 actionable research. Look, 418 00:26:39,541 --> 00:26:43,320 we all want a fair and equitable workplace where people feel valued and belong, 419 00:26:43,320 --> 00:26:47,600 a sense of belonging and it's talent that's gonna move this 420 00:26:47,601 --> 00:26:49,960 profession forward more than anything else. And you know, 421 00:26:49,961 --> 00:26:54,680 when you think about it nothing less than the future relevance and influence 422 00:26:54,780 --> 00:26:56,560 of our great profession is at stake. 423 00:26:57,060 --> 00:27:01,560 So let's approach this challenge as Kevin and Denise have said with a sense of 424 00:27:01,800 --> 00:27:05,240 urgency, a sense of pride, and a sense of inspiration. 425 00:27:07,590 --> 00:27:08,880 This has been Count Me In, 426 00:27:09,510 --> 00:27:13,440 IMA's podcast providing you with the latest perspectives of thought leaders from 427 00:27:13,441 --> 00:27:16,160 the accounting and finance profession. If you like what you heard, 428 00:27:16,260 --> 00:27:19,160 and you'd like to be counted in for more relevant accounting and finance 429 00:27:19,270 --> 00:27:23,080 education, visit IMA's website at www.imanet.org.