Topic 
Garage to Stadiums: The story of the band Rush

Speakers
Dave Anthony, host Garage to Stadiums podcast 
Sam Dunn of Banger Films, producer of documentary Rush: Beyond the Lighted Stage

Full Transcript of Episode

0:00
Hi there. I'm Dave Anthony and this is the garage to stadiums podcast. On each episode we tell you the story of how one of our music legends rose from obscurity to fame and play some of the songs that mark that journey.

Dave Anthony
0:18
Welcome to Garage to Stadiums. Today's story is about the band Rush. Rush is a Canadian band hailing from Toronto, Canada and consists of lead singer Geddy Lee, guitarist Alex Lifeson, and drummer Neil here. And this is a band known for its loyal legion of fans worldwide attracted to the precision musicianship of this band whether on record or in concert Rush is third, behind only the Beatles and The Rolling Stones in number of consecutive gold or platinum albums. And to talk about Rush and its journey is Sam Dunn, an award-winning documentary filmmaker Sam's first film Metal: A Headbanger’s Journey premiered at the Toronto International Film Festival in 2005, and has become the definitive documentary on heavy metal music and culture. He's also won the prestigious 2016 Peabody Award, and International Emmy Award for his work on the Netflix original series Hip Hop Evolution. Some of the bands that Sam has covered in his docs include ZZ Top, Iron Maiden, and Alice Cooper. Sam's documentary, entitled Rush: Beyond the Lighted Stage made its debut at the 2010 Tribeca Film Festival and earned the 2010 Audience Award. The film was also nominated for Best Long Form Music Video at the 53rd Grammy Award and features an array of rock luminaries commenting on the band Rush. Sam, welcome to Garage to Stadiums.

Sam Dunn
1:50
Thank you, Dave. Pleasure to be here.
Dave Anthony
1:52
All right, let's first talk Sam about Banger Films and your incredible array of projects, films, etc. What was the inspiration to start Banger?

Sam Dunn
2:03
Well, I co founded Banger with my business partner, Scott McFadgen in 2004. And it all began with an insane idea, which was that a smart in-depth documentary should and could be made about heavy metal music and culture, which at that time, for many people seemed like an absurd idea. But lo and behold, took us three years to raise the money two years to make the film. And the film premiered at TIFF 2005. And basically started us on this path of making documentaries and series firstly, with big rock and metal music artists like Rush, Alice Cooper and Iron Maiden and others. And then pivoting into doing series on genres in metal, hip hop, K, pop, and on so started with that idea, that film about a style of music that's pretty polarizing could be done in a way that could both be attractive to the fans who love and know the music, and accessible enough that it could appeal to a broader audience. We realized, well, if guys like Geddy or Tony Iommi of Black Sabbath, or Bruce Dickinson of Iron Maiden or Alice Cooper are appreciating the way we're approaching this, then well, maybe there's opportunities to tell their stories. So, you know, what are the bands from that first film that really deserved the big story and Rush was right at the top of the list? That's so

Dave Anthony
4:05
Cool. That first low budget film you guys did that was so successful, almost was a sampler pack for what was about to come through the entire career. And taking that point, you feature a number of rock luminaries in the Rush documentary, Rush beyond the latest stage. It's an incredible array of people that are in this one. Gene Simmons of Kiss, Billy Corgan, Smashing Pumpkins, Kirk Hammett, Metallica, Trent Reznor, Nine Inch Nails, Taylor Hawkins, Foo Fighters, I mean, a wide range of genres, even in that guest list. And so while Rush was not a band that was loved by the critics, it's incredible the effusive praise that all of these guys keep on the Rush. What was the common view that you know, they had of, of Rush? Well,

Sam Dunn
4:56
I think for those musicians, there's two things. Number one is just the undeniable musical prowess and talent of that band. So, you know, many  a young person grows up wanting to be the next Neil Peart, wanting to be the next Geddy Lee and wanting to be the next Alice life lesson. So there's that musical side of it that just appeals to young people who just want to become the best at their instrument that they possibly can. And that's very powerful. And it was powerful. For me, even though I didn't go on to be a professional musician, I grew up playing the bass guitar, and I sat my bedroom hitting, you know, stop, rewind, play, stop, rewind play on my cassette deck, trying to learn how to play Geddy Lee parts, so I could I could relate to that. I think the other big piece is Rush, have had a very unique ability to do their own thing and not bow down to accommodate the wishes of the mainstream, the wishes of commercial interests, etc. They are one of those very rare artists who have had long careers and have completely done it their own way, all the way through. Yeah. And I don't think there's a lot of artists that tick that box. I mean, Bowie would be an obvious other example. And there's probably others as well. But in the rock world, Rush occupy a very unique place and that they, they just said no to any outside influence on how they were going to make their music, how long the songs were going to be, how, how elaborate and ornate, their lyrical content was going to be, et cetera. And I think for musicians that you mentioned, that's like the gold standard. Yeah,

Dave Anthony
6:59
That's a great point. The point about the musicianship in particular, if anyone in the audience has seen Rush live, I mean, this is a note-for-note band. When you see these guys, it's like listening….. You’ve, you've got the crowd with you, which is great. But man, these guys are not just phoning it in. This is note for note playing these awesome songs. And that certainly came through when you talked to those guys. Let's go back to the beginning. Where did the guys in Rush Alex Lifeson, Geddy Lee, Neil Peart, where did they grow up? What was their family life like

Sam Dunn
7:36
Geddy and Alex were the sons of immigrant families that that grew up in the neighborhood Willowdale in the north of Toronto, which at that time, as I understand was a brand new suburb in the 50s, and 60s, you know, you go any north of any further north of Willowdale, and it was farmland, which, of course, for those of people that know the geography of the Greater Toronto Area, that that's no longer the case. The suburban sprawl goes on for kilometers beyond that now, but that was the neighborhood that they grew up, I suppose, in many ways, kind of a classic post war, largely immigrant neighborhood, Neil, quite differently, grew up in the farmlands of Southern Ontario. His father ran a farm equipment dealership. And so his upbringing was, was quite different in a lot of ways than Geddy and Alex’s.

Dave Anthony
8:42
Didn't Geddy’s parents meet in a concentration camp during the war, and eventually survived came to Canada. And then they opened a convenience store and his dad died at an early age. And, in fact, Geddy’s name Geddy Lee comes from his real name, which is Gary Weinrib. And his Polish mother had a difficult time saying Gary, and I came out as “Geddy”. And then, of course, his school friends started calling him Geddy and it stuck. And when he was looking for a stage name, he in fact, combined his middle name Lee with that moniker Geddy and came up with Geddy Lee .  Where did the guys first meet?

Sam Dunn
9:29
Alex and Geddy met in junior high school, I think around the age of 14 or 15. Their first shows were in you know, church basements, community hall basements, probably a few, you know, high school parties in the northern Toronto suburban area that's where they really cut their teeth.

Dave Anthony
9:56
These guys are 19 or 20. And they're in it's In the early 70s, they're playing bars six nights a week in Toronto. I mean, they can barely get into bars, but they're in there playing six nights a week, and something incredible happens. And tell us about what that was and how it broke Rush into the next level. 

Sam Dunn
10:17
The big breakthrough moment that really put Rush into a much bigger conversation was the result of a woman named Donna Halper based who was a DJ in Cleveland, who played working man on the radio, right. And the short version of the story is the phone didn't stop ringing. I think the joke goes, “is that the new Led Zeppelin song?” The name started to grow and it sort of paved the way then for the band to start touring throughout that area of the United States. And it was really that radio combined with those early touring days that really broke Rush.

Dave Anthony
12:01
You can see why Working Man would work in a working class blue collar town like Cleveland was in the 1970s. In fact, Sam that opening riff, man that sounds like an industrial machine in a factory.

Sam Dunn
12:14
Yeah, that's a super heavy song, you know, that's emblematic of Rush, as we were talking about earlier of really being inspired by the Zeppelins and The Whos and that late 60s, early 70s rock sound right, like that's where that song is coming from. It's about it's probably the most straightforward Rush tune ever created. We all know that from there they go off on a vast musical adventure into much more experimental territory. But that Working Man tune is about as bread and butter as it gets for Rush. So

Dave Anthony
12:54
Imagine, you know, for those of you that are listening, who have kids, or maybe you're this age, but they're 19, or 20. And this song breaks, as Sam said, in the Midwest, and they're put on the opening act circuit for bands like Kiss and Manfred Mann and Uriah Heep. And you're 20 years old, now you're playing not the bars in Toronto, but 10 to 15,000 people every night. It's just incredible…

Sam Dunn
13:21
As you say, they really started to hit their stride in those early days of touring, touring the Midwest. And you know, playing loud, heavy, aggressive, musically dense rock music, but they were the furthest thing from what you'd expect a band who plays that music to be like, you know, and that's what Gene Simmons gets at in our film is, you know, these guys were not out partying and hanging out with, with girls. Gene jokes I think he says, you know, they were in their rooms, hotel rooms, reading books. You know, that just gets to the uniqueness of this band in many ways. On the surface they were another, you know, they were another 70’s hard rock band, but they were different. And they were setting their sights ultimately, we now know, on far more ambitious and frankly, kind of intellectual territory when it comes to what they wanted to do with their music.  

Dave Anthony
14:31
How would you describe each of Geddy, Neil and Alex in terms of personalities?

Sam Dunn
14:37
Oh, wow. That's a great question. In a small nutshell as I can put them in, I mean, you know, Geddy firstly, my sense of Geddy is that he's a tremendously ambitious, highly, highly motivated individual to understand and absorb as much of the world around him as he possibly can, right? So he's very driven to be the best possible bass player he can be. He's very driven to know as much as he can about baseball. He's driven to know as much as he can about wine and photography and on and on. So that's Geddy to me. Alex is probably the funniest person I've ever met. Hands down, and it's something that a lot of people don't know about. Alex.

Dave Anthony
15:32
Wow, the funniest guy you've ever met, that’s saying something? I understand Alex's real name is Alex Zivojinovic. His parents emigrated from Yugoslavia, the former Yugoslavia. And of course, he changed his name to Alex Lifeson for the purposes of touring with Rush,

Sam Dunn
15:49
Alex. You know, my impression of Alex is that he is firstly a fantastic guitar player who plays a very interesting role in that band musically because Geddy and Neil are such busy players.

Dave Anthony
16:08
And Alex is underrated as a guitar player. In my mind.

Sam Dunn
16:13
I think Alex brings frankly, like a lot of the taste, to Rush's music. He's the one in many ways, and people often probably won't see it this way. That's, that's kind of brave enough to sit back and just layer on what needs to be layered on to the music, which I really admire him for. And I don't think he gets enough credit for that. Because, frankly, if he was ripping on as many notes as the other two, I don't know if Rush's music would be nearly as listenable as it is.  Neil rest in peace is the poet in a drummer’s clothing. You know, he's a deep intellectual. He's a deep reader. He's a deep observer of the world around him. I speak in the present tense, because I feel like he's still here because of the legacy of music that he's left behind, right? He's probably got the biggest brain of any musician. I've had the opportunity to meet. And I've interviewed hundreds and hundreds of musicians over the last 20 years. So, Neil, is a deep intellectual, lyricist, and probably one of the best rock drummers ever to walk the planet. 

Dave Anthony
17:40
Yeah, he definitively comes up in everyone's list, it seems. There's been a number of significant challenges the band has faced. After that initial success with Working Man from watching the film, they put out a couple of albums that are not that well-received after that album, that first album that the Cleveland radio station had discovered. And the crowds start to dwindle...to show up to see these guys. And what happens next is really interesting and results in a turning point. Effectively, it sounds like the record company, sort of put these guys up against the wall and said, “Okay, guys, this is it. What's it going to be? Because we need something to move some product here.” And the band has an interesting response.

Sam Dunn
18:31
Yeah, well, I think this arguably, is probably the most important moment in Rush's career. After that initial album, their music gets increasingly experimental. And they start really pushing themselves as musicians. Importantly, you know, the original drummer John Rutsey, who was on the first Rush album, leaves the band. And he's replaced by Neil on the second record, which is an enormously important moment in this band's story, of course, because it kind of opens this vast opportunity to kind of basically create whatever they want, because Neil is so tremendously talented on the drums. But what happens is, by the time they get to the album, Caress of Steel, which, you know, I think Geddy jokes in the film, I think we were pretty high when we made that record is that they've really pushed themselves to the outer limits of experimentation and progressive rock to the point where maybe, you know, they're starting to push it too far. And there's no semblance, as you say, of a Working Man, the band that made Working Man several years earlier, seems to have left the building and they get put under pressure by the label. The label is saying things like we want a hit. “Can you guys put something like a Bad Company song together?” This is where the labels are at at that time.

Dave Anthony
20:09
Yeah. And keep in mind, these guys are still what 21 probably at the time, like, I mean, you’d think that if the record company says “Jump! and a 21 year old is gonna go…Yes, I will deliver, sir.”

Sam Dunn
20:21
Yeah, they're they're right in their early early 20s This is 1975 I believe that Caress of Steel comes out. Anyway, the most important word was what Rush said to the record label and they said “No”. And they set their sights on creating, which still to this day is probably the most important record in the story of Rush, not necessarily the most commercially successful. But of course, that album is 2112. Right? And 2112 still stands as one of the most ambitious and successful, which is key, rock albums of all time. You know, famously, one side of the record is one song, including several movements, ala a classical composition. And the other important thing that happens of course is not only that they say “No”, but the audience says “Yes” in response to that music. And this is the moment when Rush earns their complete musical freedom right for the rest of their career. From now on, Rush does things the way they want to and that's the way it's going to be and so that's you know, that's why 2112 is such an important album in the restaurant.

Dave Anthony
22:57
Rush goes on to release a trio of albums that puts them into the top rock acts of the late 70s as a yield songs Closer to the Heart

Dave Anthony
23:20
….that was followed by another key song The Spirit of Radio

Dave Anthony
23:38
Sam next comes kind of the killer pinnacle album, Moving Pictures, in 1981 when the guys are still only in their late 20s. And they've got all the success. But man, this next album is the one that if you were in high school at the time, everybody talked about this album, the songs from it which we're going to play a couple of, Tom Sawyer and Limelight. Tell us about that incredible album Moving Pictures and what it did it do for this band?

Sam Dunn
24:10
Well, Moving Pictures, of course stands is, you know, the most well-known album by Rush to this day. This is the moment when they start to draw on other musical influences than the kind of classic rock and early heavy metal. The songs get shorter. They get a little leaner, if you will. The the keyboards become a bigger part of the actual bedrock of the songs. It's not just guitar riffs that are driving their music anymore. And, you know, you alluded to the fact that you know after this after what they've done on 2112 they push themselves even further out into the outer reaches of progressive rock, particularly on the album Hemispheres and songs like La Villa Strangiato, They were now creating songs that they could barely even pull off in the studio. Like they'd kind of they, you know, the fingers were bleeding to the point where they're like, “Okay, you know, let's take the foot off the gas here”. But anyway, so with Moving Pictures…

Dave Anthony
25:16
And that, and that's, I guess that speaks to the course correction that they constantly seem to do they go down a path, they course correct. To place these guys in any genre is difficult because they keep adapting. 

Sam Dunn
25:27
Yeah. And so, you know, the songs you mentioned, like Closer to the Heart, Spirit of Radio, and perhaps most famously, Tom Sawyer, you know, are our products of that new mentality that Rush is bringing to their music, you know, leaner, shorter, more direct, less meandering, less experimental, all have that kind of stuff. And, you know, as Neil says, in our documentary, all of a sudden, you had kids walking down the high school halls saying, “Hey, have you heard the new Rush song? Have you got the new Rush album?” And as I think he puts it, you know, it's like, that's actually the moment and quite possibly the only moment that it's “cool” to love Rush, right? Because those songs that I mentioned are like getting heavy, heavy, rotation on rock radio, and if you've got a radio on in 1981 you're pretty much guaranteed to hear those songs. Yeah. Moving Pictures is the next step forward. Because it's the moment when Rush becomes a full on popular band stream.  
27:01
 
Dave Anthony
27:11
we just heard the song Tom Sawyer, the incredible lyrics of Neil Peart, the synthesizers of Geddy and Alex, as you said, filling it in and making it sort of palatable. That song was everywhere in that era, and I've even heard the Foo Fighters sing that song. They love that song. If you want to see a funny version of the song Tom Sawyer, check out the movie “I Love You, Man”, starring Paul Rudd and Jason Segel. There's a hilarious scene where they both ride together on one Vespa singing the tune. And what's interesting, there's another tune that I think is a clue to the personalities in this band, in particular Neil, and that song is Limelight.

Sam Dunn
28:15
I think this signals a transformation or a shift in the subject matter of Neil's lyrics, you know, for many, many albums, the subject matter has been fantastical, very literary, very lofty, lyrical matter. Now, I think it's almost like the lyrics are becoming more earthly and autobiographical, they start to become more about what's going on around them or in their own lives. And specifically, Limelight really kind of echoes what we talked about earlier, which is that this is not a band that does what they do, because they want all of the trappings that usually come with being a rock star. In fact, they're in many ways the complete opposite of that, particularly Neil, who is making this music, principally because he wants to make the music. And this may seem like a kind of minutia anecdote, but I think it speaks to something larger than when they recorded albums, Neil's favorite part was rehearsing and putting the songs together. And then as soon as he laid the track down in the studio, it's like “I'm done”. It was Geddy and Alex and as far as I understand, largely Geddy, who would spend days and days and days in the studio, tweaking and perfecting, and working on the nuances of the sound and the production and the levels and all of that stuff. It's the doing of the music that's most important and everything else around it is kind of uninteresting or uninspiring to him and, I think, that's kind of what Limelight is getting at, in my view.

Dave Anthony
30:03
Where would you say Rush sit, Sam, in music history? What will they be remembered for? You know, the documentary does a good job of telling what others thought, but where do you think they sit? It's funny, Gene Simmons says, “People always go, what are they? Are they this? Are they that?”  and he goes, “They're just Rush, man.”

Sam Dunn
30:23
I mean, on one hand, I think Rush will always be known as this band that just had the guts to push music, as far as it could be pushed within the rock context, you know, such tremendous musical ambition. I think the part of Rush that doesn't get highlighted enough and I think really what they should be recognized for now and into the future is, is, is actually tremendous integrity and tremendous work ethic. Because I've had the, you know, wonderful opportunity to spend time with them. Especially recently with Geddy. These guys work very, very hard. And it's maybe a mundane answer, but it's an answer that isn't given very often, because maybe it's not that sexy. It's not that appealing. But there's a tremendous amount of grit. There's a tremendous amount of old fashioned working class, like, this is what we do for a living. And there's also a tremendous business acumen that doesn't get talked about very often, either, the really good decisions along the way. It's a band that was very well-managed, as well. And I don't think it's those aspects of the band's career that get highlighted enough, but as I've spent more time with them and had a chance to have hindsight on working with them on the on the documentary now, I think it's, it's, it's those aspects, the work ethic, the business acumen and the integrity. That is really what made Rush who they are.

Dave Anthony
32:15
That's an interesting answer. You know, it really speaks to these bands are really entrepreneurs at the end of the day, and they're on this journey where they have to adapt and they have to, you know, adapt to the market conditions they have to do their thing they have to put in the work. And you know, in terms of success, it's interesting, while the critics may have said, well, you know, the prog rock, progressive rock, whatever, you know, the fans vote with their dollars and Rush, as we said at the beginning has the third most consecutive gold/platinum studio albums by a rock band, topped only by the Beatles and The Stones. So that's called a successful business. 40 million albums sold is the estimate.  If you wanted to give the folks listening, your all time. three picks, I know it's hard…, that they can choose to listen to now we'll have a more in depth Garage to Stadiums playlist for folks at our website. But I want to hear the Sam Dunn three picks that he would say reflect Rush to him.

Sam Dunn
33:24
It’s a big catalog Dave! I would pick… I'd like to pick a few songs that span across the catalog. The first song that comes to mind is an instrumental and “La Villa Strangiato” off of the album Hemispheres. Alex's guitar solo in that song I think is one of the most beautiful parts of any Rush song and maybe doesn't talked about enough.
Dave Anthony
34:28
Yeah, people may not have listened to that that may be a lesser known song,

Sam Dunn
34:33
Which is always been one of my favorite Rush tunes. It just represents Rush at the peak. So so many songs to choose from, but a song I'd like to pick is also a song that maybe doesn't get talked about much. It's off of Moving Pictures, but it's the last song in the album called Vital Signs. 

Dave Anthony
34:57
Yes. That’s a cool tune.I didn't know anyone else knew that song so I'm just glad to hear it.

Sam Dunn
35:02
I may be biased because I'm a massive Police fan. And this is their most obvious tip of the hat to The Police that you could possibly imagine.
35:30
 
Sam Dunn
35:40
It's just such a shift in their sound. And I think they pull it off really, really well. It's got that kind of lean power trio vibe to it, and it's got beautiful, the vocal work on that song I think is beautiful. You know, people talking about Tom Sawyer, Limelight and Red Barchetta and all the other songs on that album. But the last track Vital Signs is tremendous. And I think it speaks to the fact that that's why that album is so incredible is because all of the songs on that album are so strong. So yeah, Vital Signs would be my other pick.  I would also pick a song off the album Counterparts. And this is in the 90s when, after moving into a very keyboard heavy direction in the band there.

Dave Anthony
36:27
Another another move a little too far that then kind of reeled it back in,

Sam Dunn
36:33
…they returned to a much more rock feel on Counterparts. And I've always loved the opening track Animate on that on that album

Sam Dunn
37:10
Animate I think is a song that kind of represents Rush into the 90s, which doesn't get talked about very much. But yeah, it's always been a favorite of mine.  1

Dave Anthony
39:26
Sam, this is kind of our final question. Tell us a little bit about the latest project that Banger Films has been working on?  

Sam Dunn
39:33
We have a lot of shows in production or in development at Banger which are too early to mention. But we do have a show on Paramount plus that stars Geddy Lee from Rush. And the title of the show is perhaps the longest title in the history of television which, of course, is apropos because it's about a member of Rush, and it's called Geddy Lee Asks are Bass Players Human Too. And essentially it's a travel show where each episode Geddy goes to meet with one of his favorite bassists and spends time talking a bit about music and a bit about the bass but it's largely about what these bassists do in their off-time. And so the episodes are on Les Claypool from Primus, Rob Trujillo of Metallica, Chris Novaselic of Nirvana, and Melissa Auf der Maur, who played bass in Hole and Smashing Pumpkins. So it's a it's a fun travel show with Geddy that we're super proud of, and I think shows the side of Geddy, which is beyond the masterful bass playing in the music side of him and really shows him as just a really interesting person that has infinite curiosity about the world around him.

Dave Anthony
40:53
Thanks Sam, I really appreciate this. 

Sam Dunn
Thanks Dave, my pleasure to be here

Special thanks to Sam, our guest today who produced in a record Rush beyond the latest stage. We can some are Sam Dunn
41:09
 
Dave Anthony
41:16
Some closing notes.... There’s a great video of Rush’s Rock and Roll Hall of Fame induction including a great video of Dave Grohl and Taylor Hawkins of the Foos playing that 2112 piece, complete with 70s wigs and rock outfits. If you want some recent clips of Rush playing without Neil paired there is that video of them playing the Taylor Hawkins tribute with Dave Grohl and also Chad Smith of the Chili Peppers, taking turns on the drums, playing 2112 and Working Man, respectively. And finally, if you want to hear in my opinion, one Rush album that demonstrates the incredible musicianship of this three piece band, I'd recommend you stream the album Moving Pictures widely considered their best album, and the one that led to their stadium success. For those of you who want the Garage to Stadium definitive playlist of Rush go to our website garagetostadiums.com, where we've posted that playlist including Sam's three picks, and the episode's transcripts. While there you can see our other episodes. We hope you enjoyed our show today. Special thanks to our guests Sam Dunn of Banger Films and our producer Rhy Waters. I'm Dave Anthony and you've been listening to Garage to Stadiums, another Blast Furnace Labs production. See you next time for another Garage to Stadiums story.