WEBVTT NOTE This file was generated by Descript 00:00:11.975 --> 00:00:18.035 Jethro Jones: Welcome to Transformative Principle, where I help you stop putting out fires and start leading. 00:00:18.545 --> 00:00:20.045 I'm your host, Jethro Jones. 00:00:20.045 --> 00:00:22.745 You can follow me on Twitter at Jethro Jones. 00:00:22.745 --> 00:00:22.805 Okay. 00:00:35.402 --> 00:00:35.882 All right. 00:00:35.882 --> 00:00:37.922 Welcome to Transformative Principal. 00:00:37.922 --> 00:00:39.872 I'm your host, Jethro Jones. 00:00:40.112 --> 00:00:42.902 You can find me on all the social networks at Jethro Jones. 00:00:43.517 --> 00:00:50.477 Transformative Principal is a proud member of the BE Podcast Network, which has some of the greatest educational podcasts out there. 00:00:50.477 --> 00:00:53.717 You can find all of our shows@bepodcastnetwork.com. 00:00:54.077 --> 00:01:04.217 We got something for just about everybody, and if we have something or we don't have something in you, I. Want to have something, let me know and let's talk about it and we'll make a podcast. 00:01:04.487 --> 00:01:10.517 I love helping people make new podcasts and there's enough stuff out there that we could make things for everybody. 00:01:10.517 --> 00:01:12.677 So if you're interested, let me know. 00:01:12.737 --> 00:01:17.897 At Jethro Jones on our social media, uh, today I'm excited to have Derek Mitchell on the program. 00:01:17.897 --> 00:01:21.827 He's the CEO of Partners in School Innovation and Under. 00:01:22.667 --> 00:01:23.927 Derek's leadership of partners. 00:01:23.927 --> 00:01:31.397 The organization has adapted to a dynamic educational landscape and grown to address an expanding need for equity centered school improvement. 00:01:32.777 --> 00:01:33.947 He's done a ton of stuff. 00:01:34.037 --> 00:01:35.057 We're not gonna get into all that. 00:01:35.057 --> 00:01:37.607 You can read the bio at Transformative Principal dot org. 00:01:37.607 --> 00:01:40.007 Derek, welcome to Transformative Principal. 00:01:40.007 --> 00:01:40.847 Great to have you. 00:01:41.262 --> 00:01:41.862 Derek Mitchell: Thank you. 00:01:41.862 --> 00:01:42.762 Thank you, Jeff Row. 00:01:42.762 --> 00:01:47.742 It's wonderful to be here and uh, I've had a chance to experience some of your earlier work. 00:01:47.892 --> 00:01:48.852 Very exciting. 00:01:49.202 --> 00:01:51.242 Very, very proud to have this opportunity. 00:01:51.392 --> 00:01:51.962 Appreciate you. 00:01:52.142 --> 00:01:53.222 Jethro Jones: Th thank you. 00:01:53.222 --> 00:02:02.852 And, uh, the, this connection happened because, uh, will Parker had you on the show And Will Parker's a dear friend of mine, the Principal Matters podcast. 00:02:02.932 --> 00:02:03.222 Derek Mitchell: Yeah. 00:02:03.392 --> 00:02:07.712 Jethro Jones: so I would encourage everybody to go listen to that show also because it's good. 00:02:07.712 --> 00:02:13.547 And, and Derek said some good stuff on there that we're probably not gonna get to today 'cause we're taking a different. 00:02:13.827 --> 00:02:16.047 Uh, a different tack today. 00:02:16.107 --> 00:02:25.407 Uh, so what we're gonna talk about today is some of our hopes coming out of the pandemic, and it's been a, just a second. 00:02:25.677 --> 00:02:26.907 I'm gonna mute you there, Steven. 00:02:27.747 --> 00:02:28.377 There we go. 00:02:28.707 --> 00:02:28.977 All right. 00:02:28.977 --> 00:02:29.457 He's muted. 00:02:29.457 --> 00:02:30.117 So we're good now. 00:02:30.567 --> 00:02:31.047 Um, 00:02:33.507 --> 00:02:38.997 what we're gonna talk about today is about some of the hopes that we had coming outta the pandemic and how that would happen. 00:02:38.997 --> 00:02:39.482 It's been. 00:02:40.142 --> 00:02:42.962 O over five years since the pandemic started. 00:02:43.292 --> 00:02:53.852 And so, Derek, let's start by just talking about what were some of the hopes you had after the pandemic of how people would act and interact and, and do school? 00:02:54.002 --> 00:02:55.083 What, what did you hope for? 00:02:55.907 --> 00:02:56.297 Derek Mitchell: Yeah. 00:02:56.657 --> 00:02:57.917 Uh, thanks for that question. 00:02:58.037 --> 00:03:09.347 Uh, Jeff, I, I have to say that, uh, uh, I remain very disappointed at our society's response, um, to the pandemic overall. 00:03:09.797 --> 00:03:19.487 Um, and the, you know, shattered hopes that I had for how we would respond, um, and treat our public school system coming out of the pandemic. 00:03:20.237 --> 00:03:23.507 Uh, for some reason, I guess I was naive in thinking that. 00:03:24.497 --> 00:03:31.217 the role that schools play would be, uh, deeply and more powerfully respected. 00:03:31.952 --> 00:03:42.092 Um, coming out after the pandemic because we got a much more thoughtful appreciation for how teachers are, can innovate to better meet the needs of kids. 00:03:42.962 --> 00:03:54.752 how community communities around the schools can mobilize, um, and be adaptive, um, and responsive to a variety of both, you know, low Maslow and high Maslow needs. 00:03:55.352 --> 00:03:58.857 Um, and overall the role that schools play in our economy. 00:04:00.287 --> 00:04:06.617 uh, in our country, I mean, our schools are the places where every other career is, is born. 00:04:07.672 --> 00:04:07.972 Jethro Jones: Yeah. 00:04:08.147 --> 00:04:22.067 Derek Mitchell: and, and I thought that after having a period of time where we didn't have access in the traditional ways, um, folks would lean in more powerfully and more thoughtfully and say, oh my God, we have to do better by our teachers and our leaders. 00:04:22.532 --> 00:04:23.912 Um, than we have in the past. 00:04:23.942 --> 00:04:26.672 And frankly, that's simply not what's happened. 00:04:26.732 --> 00:04:36.302 There's higher degrees of disrespect, uh, much less appreciation for our public school system and frankly, a lot of, of disengagement 00:04:36.952 --> 00:04:37.372 Jethro Jones: Mm-hmm. 00:04:38.012 --> 00:04:39.872 Derek Mitchell: and importance, uh, of schooling. 00:04:40.472 --> 00:04:40.532 Um. 00:04:40.697 --> 00:04:41.147 Jethro Jones: Yeah. 00:04:41.507 --> 00:04:59.297 Well, and, and one of those things, uh, that you're talking about is this idea of the school being a community center and a place for everybody in the community to be able to go and, and have support and that your kids go through and, and then they bring you into the school also. 00:04:59.297 --> 00:05:01.577 And, and that definitely hasn't. 00:05:02.192 --> 00:05:03.092 Hasn't happened. 00:05:03.092 --> 00:05:21.842 And it, um, it coinciding with that are the fears around, um, school shootings and things where now schools are becoming hardened locations and, and by necessity that makes them less welcoming and less inviting places. 00:05:22.142 --> 00:05:28.322 And so I, I moved down to Spokane, Washington where I live now, uh, in, uh, June of 2020. 00:05:28.682 --> 00:05:29.102 And. 00:05:29.927 --> 00:05:31.307 It was in the middle of the pandemic. 00:05:31.637 --> 00:05:33.677 Uh, we homeschooled our kids for that next year. 00:05:33.707 --> 00:05:37.157 'cause the, the schools were all closed and they were all doing virtual school. 00:05:37.157 --> 00:05:40.367 And I knew that would be terrible with my kids not having any connection. 00:05:40.877 --> 00:05:47.747 And then when they opened back up, I, I'd been in the school system and all the previous places we'd lived, so I was connected. 00:05:47.747 --> 00:05:53.537 And then when I went back and tried to engage with the schools, I felt like I was blocked out. 00:05:53.657 --> 00:05:55.697 Like they didn't want me to be there. 00:05:55.697 --> 00:05:58.217 They didn't want me to be part of it. 00:05:58.217 --> 00:05:58.637 And. 00:05:59.337 --> 00:06:09.417 And so there's society that is let down our schools, but schools have also let down, uh, the rest of us in, in making it less welcoming and less inviting. 00:06:09.417 --> 00:06:12.417 And, and there are a whole bunch of issues that go along with this. 00:06:12.417 --> 00:06:13.887 What, how would you react to some of that? 00:06:14.357 --> 00:06:18.382 Derek Mitchell: Yeah, I, I totally understand and, and, and agree with that perspective there. 00:06:19.637 --> 00:06:25.757 Uh, partners works with dozens of schools around the country right now, and the most effective leaders have figured out a way. 00:06:26.447 --> 00:06:33.077 Um, to, to think about their school as something more than just what happens inside the walls of that building. 00:06:33.592 --> 00:06:34.012 Jethro Jones: Mm-hmm. 00:06:34.037 --> 00:06:34.367 Derek Mitchell: Right? 00:06:34.727 --> 00:06:38.207 Um, they figured out how to robustly partner with parents. 00:06:38.207 --> 00:06:46.142 I. How to thoughtfully create relationships and partnerships with industry around the school businesses in close proximity to it. 00:06:46.472 --> 00:06:49.712 Um, the public engagement around the community itself. 00:06:49.742 --> 00:06:57.692 Everything from crosswalk management to, you know, to, uh, strategic partnerships with, with, uh, uh, different stores nearby. 00:06:58.462 --> 00:07:02.752 Um, and, and it hinges on a couple of things that you alluded to. 00:07:03.142 --> 00:07:12.892 First, this, this idea of the school as a, as a central space for a robust set of services, offerings, and community. 00:07:12.892 --> 00:07:14.567 Will I. Because 00:07:14.617 --> 00:07:15.037 Jethro Jones: Mm-hmm. 00:07:15.107 --> 00:07:29.117 Derek Mitchell: place can be that, it should be the place where we, our children spend most of their waking hours, I mean, the schools are, are, are the center places for our hopes for our kids and their futures. 00:07:29.117 --> 00:07:34.487 And so it's natural that they become the place where, where we focus a lot of our attention. 00:07:34.937 --> 00:07:37.127 Um, but as you, as you described. 00:07:37.597 --> 00:07:44.707 There are so many different needs that we're expecting schools to meet now that weren't always traditionally a part of what schooling was. 00:07:45.097 --> 00:07:53.647 This idea that schools are, are these hardened spaces, um, to be more protective against different types of intrusions. 00:07:54.127 --> 00:07:58.572 Um, those of us who grew up in our inner cities have experienced that pretty much. 00:07:59.402 --> 00:08:01.712 As a basic way of doing schooling. 00:08:01.772 --> 00:08:06.272 You know, everything from metal detectors to armed guards, the, the, you know, the whole nine yards. 00:08:07.562 --> 00:08:21.662 and so and so you can do those things and also have a, a school that is embracing of community, that is respectful of parents and the partnership that you must have with them in order for their students to learn and thrive. 00:08:22.082 --> 00:08:22.322 Uh, it's 00:08:22.397 --> 00:08:22.847 Jethro Jones: Yeah. 00:08:22.982 --> 00:08:24.782 Derek Mitchell: school is properly prepared to do that. 00:08:25.367 --> 00:08:25.697 Jethro Jones: Yeah. 00:08:25.727 --> 00:08:26.627 E exactly. 00:08:26.627 --> 00:08:33.827 And I really appreciate how you, a couple times you said that schools partner with parents, not ask parents to partner with them. 00:08:34.187 --> 00:08:42.257 Because the reality is, is that our students, their first teachers are their parents and their last teachers are their parents. 00:08:42.317 --> 00:08:45.557 And regardless of the efforts we put in at school. 00:08:45.902 --> 00:08:49.502 We are not going to out teach the culture that they have at home. 00:08:49.832 --> 00:09:02.072 And so we have to understand that we have to work with the parents and, and partner with them, and, and that's important because a lot of people see it the other way, that we need to get parents to partner with us. 00:09:02.432 --> 00:09:09.212 But just in the language we use and you used it too, we need to partner with parents rather than the other way around. 00:09:09.212 --> 00:09:19.052 I so appreciate that you said that and expanding the school beyond the four walls, can you give a couple examples of how people are, schools are doing that right now, that you're working with? 00:09:19.547 --> 00:09:20.057 Derek Mitchell: Certainly. 00:09:20.327 --> 00:09:24.287 So, uh, there's a brilliant middle school in Los Angeles. 00:09:24.347 --> 00:09:24.407 Um. 00:09:25.307 --> 00:09:32.417 That is tackling like a lot of our middle schools, this chronic truancy epidemic that's happened as a result of the pandemic. 00:09:32.747 --> 00:09:38.957 Um, typically about in between 30 and 40% of middle schoolers are chronically truant. 00:09:39.677 --> 00:09:46.052 This means they're missing a. to 15 days of school, without excuse, right? 00:09:46.472 --> 00:09:52.802 Um, that was, it was never that much before, but it's become a kind of a, a of a epidemic in our, in our schools. 00:09:53.162 --> 00:10:08.642 Um, this principals, uh, tried a number of the ways that we typically try to reengage students calling their households, you know, um, connecting with other adults who we know, know the child, uh, trying to figure out where they are because in many cases. 00:10:08.937 --> 00:10:14.127 You know, they just relocated and moved around, um, no longer living where they were before, et cetera. 00:10:14.367 --> 00:10:16.437 And that didn't have much, much of a stake. 00:10:16.497 --> 00:10:21.777 And instead, this principal, uh, did what really smart school leaders do. 00:10:22.197 --> 00:10:29.277 Um, she asked the students, she asked them, why aren't many of you coming to school? 00:10:31.442 --> 00:10:35.072 And they gave her a whole host of answers. 00:10:35.462 --> 00:10:45.302 Um, and she identified a couple of those answers and, and, and developed strategies to kind of mitigate the problems that were or talked about. 00:10:45.482 --> 00:10:55.202 And in our work at Partners, we would never have thought of these things as, as potential solutions to a chronic truancy problem, but because she listened to students. 00:10:55.502 --> 00:11:04.412 Um, the two strategies she put in place first is she partnered with a local laundromat to put a laundry center in the school. 00:11:05.912 --> 00:11:08.312 And it sounds crazy when you think about it. 00:11:08.432 --> 00:11:13.952 Um, why would there be a laundry center in the school, but a quarter of her students are housing insecure. 00:11:15.227 --> 00:11:18.827 And when you're housing insecure, you're not gonna have clean clothes all the time. 00:11:18.827 --> 00:11:26.567 If you're not gonna have clean clothes and you're a middle school student, you know, you're probably gonna find reasons not to show up in school, right? 00:11:26.567 --> 00:11:32.957 Because, uh, middle school is a hard place to be when you, when you can't be Stalin and profile, right? 00:11:33.407 --> 00:11:43.277 Um, and so she created this opportunity for kids to actually clean and dry their, their clothes before and after school, and the attendance popped. 00:11:44.117 --> 00:11:44.927 Because of that. 00:11:45.647 --> 00:11:56.687 second strategy, which I also would never have thought is she, she put a room in the school where, uh, young women for the school can get their hair done an hour before school starts. 00:11:58.187 --> 00:12:00.707 Who would've thought that not having your hair right. 00:12:01.157 --> 00:12:04.127 Would be a reason for young people to not come to school. 00:12:04.307 --> 00:12:18.377 But with social media the way it is now and students constantly taking photographs of each other and, and putting each other on blast in, in the social sphere, um, not having your hair right could be a real problem, uh, for young, uh, young ladies in the school specifically. 00:12:18.767 --> 00:12:26.597 And so she created this opportunity where work together with one another, um, by partnering with a salon that's down the street. 00:12:27.647 --> 00:12:35.147 she now has a, a, a, a pop-up salon in the school, uh, three mornings of every mornings of the week. 00:12:35.447 --> 00:12:43.547 And the, her attendance problems dropped by 50%, so she had 52% of the students chronically joined at the start of last year. 00:12:43.667 --> 00:12:46.007 It's down to 20% now. 00:12:47.057 --> 00:12:48.257 Jethro Jones: Yeah, that's. 00:12:48.272 --> 00:12:54.992 Derek Mitchell: all only strategies you can do if you're in, if you're open to the kind of innovative solutions that students themselves can come up with. 00:12:55.202 --> 00:13:03.362 But then you are also able to partner robustly with resources that are right, literally right on the other side of the wall in some cases, 00:13:03.977 --> 00:13:04.307 Jethro Jones: Yeah. 00:13:05.207 --> 00:13:05.567 Yeah. 00:13:05.597 --> 00:13:17.597 Well, and what I love about this is that people outside of schools see the value and benefit of working with a school for several different reasons, not the least of which. 00:13:17.852 --> 00:13:30.632 Is that especially if these kids are truant from school and they're out causing trouble in the neighborhood, then they, one can get to know these kids and see who they are and maybe find a way to build some common ground with them. 00:13:30.962 --> 00:13:46.442 But then if, if they bring those services into the school, then that's, that's the place where they can have some of these things, uh, happen and, and not be, you know, bound to only what's happening outside of this or inside of the school versus outside. 00:13:46.442 --> 00:13:47.102 It's not this. 00:13:47.417 --> 00:13:49.667 Uh, fight between them anymore. 00:13:49.997 --> 00:14:00.437 Um, I'll, I'll put a link in the show notes to my TEDx, talk about what we did to deal with our absenteeism and, and truancy and, and all that. 00:14:00.437 --> 00:14:09.407 And, you know, there's so many different ways to do it and all that it takes, and I hope that you'll, you'll gimme some insight into this. 00:14:09.617 --> 00:14:11.537 All it takes is stopping. 00:14:12.107 --> 00:14:16.727 Looking at the problem and really trying to design a solution to that problem that you're facing. 00:14:17.057 --> 00:14:19.487 What worked there may not work at your school. 00:14:19.547 --> 00:14:20.237 That's okay. 00:14:20.597 --> 00:14:22.277 There is something that can work. 00:14:22.307 --> 00:14:23.747 What would you add to that, Derek? 00:14:24.272 --> 00:14:27.722 Derek Mitchell: I, I would say, uh, once you stop, then you listen, 00:14:28.607 --> 00:14:29.057 Jethro Jones: Mm-hmm. 00:14:29.132 --> 00:14:29.462 Derek Mitchell: right? 00:14:29.492 --> 00:14:32.312 You, you listen to your, to your broader community. 00:14:32.312 --> 00:14:37.742 And in the case of this principal, she listened to her students, um, and, and the staff at the school. 00:14:38.132 --> 00:14:43.652 Um, we school leaders we're often called upon to know everything, and it's not possible. 00:14:44.057 --> 00:14:46.667 It's not possible that any one person can know everything. 00:14:47.147 --> 00:14:51.737 Um, but instead, you know, the, the wisdom lies in community more often than not. 00:14:52.187 --> 00:15:04.607 And the solution set that's gonna be, you know, uh, responsive to your individual problems, uh, are more likely to emerge if you're actually engaging the, the folks who are closest to that challenge to that problem. 00:15:06.227 --> 00:15:14.057 It's a, it's a core principle of improvement science, by the way, to just engage the, the, those who are closest to the problem, to crafting potential solutions to it. 00:15:15.032 --> 00:15:15.482 Jethro Jones: Yeah. 00:15:15.602 --> 00:15:25.442 And, and that is definitely something that, uh, I've learned from interviewing so many people, um, and turning my schools around the same kind of thing. 00:15:26.132 --> 00:15:28.862 The people who are there know what the problem is. 00:15:29.072 --> 00:15:36.692 A lot of times they don't have the support to make any changes and somebody else is preventing them from making those changes. 00:15:36.962 --> 00:15:41.012 And other times they just don't have the courage to make those changes. 00:15:41.072 --> 00:15:46.802 And they think if they do it, they're gonna get slapped down or, or told to shut up and you can't make this change. 00:15:47.117 --> 00:15:57.797 When in reality they can solve the problem very quickly because they know exactly what the issue is and, but they may not be able to articulate it even, but they know some things to do to solve it. 00:15:59.369 --> 00:16:10.109 Derek Mitchell: So in our work we talk about, um, there really being three reasons why adults may not do what they need to do for kids to learn more powerfully and adaptively. 00:16:10.889 --> 00:16:12.719 we talk about it being about skills. 00:16:13.734 --> 00:16:18.984 So really having the actual technical skills to accomplish the thing that you need to accomplish. 00:16:19.074 --> 00:16:20.184 Whatever those skills are. 00:16:20.364 --> 00:16:22.524 If it's a teacher, it's the pedagogical skills. 00:16:22.524 --> 00:16:24.324 If it's a leader, it's the leadership skills. 00:16:24.774 --> 00:16:29.156 Um, we talk about the will, whether you really want to do it. 00:16:30.309 --> 00:16:38.079 Sometimes doing hard things require you to actually behave differently yourself as a leader, as a teacher. 00:16:38.109 --> 00:16:44.259 And adults just don't want They don't want to do what that thing is. 00:16:44.259 --> 00:16:45.879 They may not believe it's the right thing. 00:16:45.879 --> 00:16:51.549 They may not have enough, you know, energy to bring to the problem at this particular point in time. 00:16:51.729 --> 00:16:54.849 They may think it's so much like so many things we tried before. 00:16:55.314 --> 00:17:02.334 So why would it work in this context in this time when it didn't work another time, but whatever the reason, the will to actually change is that second thing. 00:17:02.664 --> 00:17:08.694 And the third is having a plan, having a way forward knowing what to do, right? 00:17:08.904 --> 00:17:18.954 Um, and so some combination of those three things are often the barriers for, for folks on the ground in schools to do what they need to, to deliver for kids. 00:17:19.104 --> 00:17:21.144 And they're all surmountable, right? 00:17:21.474 --> 00:17:23.604 You build will by developing community. 00:17:24.609 --> 00:17:33.819 Leveraging peers, um, you know, go to the teacher that that teacher really likes and say, Hey, how can we help Susie understand how to better 1, 2, 3, and a, B, c? 00:17:33.879 --> 00:17:36.039 I mean, you know, it's not, not rocket science. 00:17:36.399 --> 00:17:42.699 Um, having a plan is really the responsibility of leadership, Sometimes it's an articulation issue. 00:17:42.699 --> 00:17:47.409 Sometimes it's just a, a, a, a question of not believing in the strategy. 00:17:47.694 --> 00:18:03.444 But the point is, if you have a way forward that you believe can deliver for kids and families, it's your responsibility to communicate that thoughtfully, to engage others, to build deep understanding of it, and to then hold folks accountable, you know, to to, to moving along that path. 00:18:03.864 --> 00:18:08.094 Um, and then skill building is a core part of what every school's supposed to be about. 00:18:08.124 --> 00:18:12.234 Not just the skill of the kids, the skill of the adults too, right? 00:18:12.564 --> 00:18:15.264 Um, creating the systems where they're learning all the time. 00:18:15.654 --> 00:18:18.894 You know how to better get better and better at whatever it is they're trying to do. 00:18:19.194 --> 00:18:19.404 Right? 00:18:20.194 --> 00:18:20.484 Jethro Jones: Yeah. 00:18:20.484 --> 00:18:31.854 Derek Mitchell: work at Partners is often about helping leaders craft the plan, develop the will of the other adults, um, and build the skills to execute against, um, the plans that they're attempt to do. 00:18:31.854 --> 00:18:35.274 And if the main thing is you may have chosen the wrong strategy. 00:18:36.654 --> 00:18:37.494 That happens. 00:18:38.514 --> 00:18:45.204 what we wanna do is help you fail faster so that you realize, oh, we gotta change course, right? 00:18:45.264 --> 00:18:50.034 Um, and so you've failed enough, fast enough to go, this isn't gonna get us where we need to go. 00:18:50.304 --> 00:18:58.704 So you feel okay letting go of that piece and picking up something that will, will help you get further along, uh, on your journey, right? 00:18:59.394 --> 00:18:59.784 Jethro Jones: Yeah. 00:18:59.814 --> 00:19:00.504 And, and 00:19:01.104 --> 00:19:01.464 Derek Mitchell: right? 00:19:01.464 --> 00:19:02.154 Jethro Jones: exactly. 00:19:03.084 --> 00:19:09.684 I, I love your point about schools are supposed to be about learning and, and that's for everybody involved and often they're not. 00:19:09.714 --> 00:19:21.564 And that's one of my big frustrations is that we had an opportunity to learn a lot during the pandemic and I feel like we didn't learn anything as schools and, and that's very frustrating for me because it was such a great opportunity to just. 00:19:21.924 --> 00:19:23.784 Like throw a bunch of stuff out. 00:19:24.204 --> 00:19:29.664 The reason why we have this truancy issue now is that we told kids school doesn't matter. 00:19:29.664 --> 00:19:33.024 When the pandemic happened, we froze all their grades. 00:19:33.024 --> 00:19:38.694 We canceled graduations, we canceled all the tests, and we said this was all made up. 00:19:38.904 --> 00:19:41.514 And the problem is, is that kids said, oh, it's all made up. 00:19:42.024 --> 00:19:43.104 Uh, okay. 00:19:43.224 --> 00:19:44.394 Then I guess it's all made up. 00:19:44.394 --> 00:19:47.844 And then, and then we came back to school and they're like, wait a minute. 00:19:47.844 --> 00:19:49.554 You, you told us this was made up. 00:19:49.764 --> 00:19:51.624 Why should I believe anything you say now? 00:19:51.714 --> 00:19:57.084 And we had an opportunity to reframe and change how we did things, and we could have done it. 00:19:57.084 --> 00:20:05.544 And some schools have, but a lot of schools just wanted to go back to the way things were instead of learning from it and growing from it. 00:20:05.544 --> 00:20:07.044 They, they didn't want to do that. 00:20:07.044 --> 00:20:09.984 And, and I find that that very challenging. 00:20:10.464 --> 00:20:10.824 Derek Mitchell: Yeah. 00:20:10.824 --> 00:20:10.974 To some, 00:20:11.334 --> 00:20:12.924 Jethro Jones: And I, I love what you said. 00:20:13.374 --> 00:20:13.644 Derek Mitchell: Yeah, 00:20:13.649 --> 00:20:13.809 Jethro Jones: ahead. 00:20:13.824 --> 00:20:14.634 Derek Mitchell: some degree. 00:20:14.799 --> 00:20:21.144 Um, the innovations that grew out of the pandemic happened around schooling, not within schooling. 00:20:21.909 --> 00:20:22.209 Right. 00:20:22.479 --> 00:20:27.579 It was, it was the, the parents who were frustrated that schools wouldn't reopen. 00:20:27.579 --> 00:20:36.759 And so they created their own pod schools that are in some cases now more effective at, at their students' learning than the original schools used to be. 00:20:36.759 --> 00:20:44.709 And so now schools want kids back, but parents have a better solution that they're implementing themselves for their, for their, for their clusters of kids. 00:20:45.039 --> 00:20:49.179 Um, and so what I, I also thought, um, that. 00:20:49.479 --> 00:20:55.089 The pandemic was an opportunity to do incredible innovations, right, um, in how schools should function. 00:20:55.299 --> 00:21:06.519 I, I, I rarely bemoan, um, career choices of my own, but I had, I had had an opportunity to, to go inside and lead a school district just before the pandemic, and I didn't take that opportunity. 00:21:07.194 --> 00:21:18.984 Um, and I kick myself now because I'm like, man, you could have been leading one of these systems at a time when you had more resources than you can spend, and every reason in the world to do things a different way, right? 00:21:19.044 --> 00:21:26.514 Um, uh, but we forget that was what was also happening was people were dying, right? 00:21:26.964 --> 00:21:30.714 People were deathly ill, you know, in large, large numbers. 00:21:31.104 --> 00:21:33.564 Um, and there was a great deal of fear. 00:21:33.564 --> 00:21:34.764 I. Right. 00:21:35.334 --> 00:21:42.114 Teachers were afraid to be in classrooms, you know, uh, kids and parents were afraid to have strangers over. 00:21:42.114 --> 00:21:44.844 I mean, there was a lot of fear at the same time. 00:21:45.294 --> 00:21:49.374 Um, and so you had fear, you had all these other different opportunities to innovate. 00:21:49.434 --> 00:21:53.004 You had all these resources poured in, you know, from the federal government. 00:21:53.334 --> 00:22:01.884 Um, and uh, and yeah, I agree that our response was so challenging, particularly in the use of technology. 00:22:03.204 --> 00:22:27.234 I mean, anyone who's been in the school reform work for any hot minute of time would tell you that to suddenly expect every teacher to master a technology based way of learning without any training or support, or to show up in the, you know, to a household, uh, where folks can't frying toilet paper with laptops and stay here, I mean, 00:22:27.369 --> 00:22:27.939 Jethro Jones: I know. 00:22:28.014 --> 00:22:29.724 Derek Mitchell: you those are nonphysical things to do. 00:22:30.619 --> 00:22:31.879 what we did right. 00:22:31.939 --> 00:22:32.329 In, in, 00:22:32.499 --> 00:22:32.919 Jethro Jones: Yeah, 00:22:33.679 --> 00:22:34.069 Derek Mitchell: Uh, 00:22:34.359 --> 00:22:34.539 Jethro Jones: I, 00:22:34.819 --> 00:22:38.779 Derek Mitchell: you know, it, it was a learning journey for everybody along the way, I 00:22:38.919 --> 00:22:39.279 Jethro Jones: yeah. 00:22:39.589 --> 00:22:40.579 Derek Mitchell: Um, and 00:22:40.749 --> 00:22:41.919 Jethro Jones: And, and so we need. 00:22:43.119 --> 00:22:49.389 Yeah, we need to have grace and compassion also, but we still need to continue to move forward and continue to improve. 00:22:49.689 --> 00:22:56.859 And I really like those, those three reasons you mentioned of why adults don't do what they should to help kids learn the skills, the will and the plan. 00:22:57.219 --> 00:23:01.569 And if any one of those is missing, then it, it becomes exponentially more difficult. 00:23:01.569 --> 00:23:06.639 So if you're not sure if you've got all those, then you better check and, and make sure. 00:23:06.849 --> 00:23:10.364 So we've, we've talked about a lot of, yeah, please go ahead. 00:23:10.854 --> 00:23:13.074 Derek Mitchell: is treat a skill problem like a will problem. 00:23:13.644 --> 00:23:14.274 Jethro Jones: Yes. 00:23:14.394 --> 00:23:15.024 Oh yeah. 00:23:15.084 --> 00:23:15.894 Derek Mitchell: like a way problem. 00:23:16.764 --> 00:23:16.794 I 00:23:16.794 --> 00:23:17.214 Jethro Jones: Yep, 00:23:17.304 --> 00:23:24.324 Derek Mitchell: you know, it's deeply disrespectful for teachers to be told, you know, uh, to try to build skills they already have. 00:23:24.984 --> 00:23:25.434 Jethro Jones: yep. 00:23:25.584 --> 00:23:26.484 Derek Mitchell: what are you doing? 00:23:26.754 --> 00:23:28.014 This is a waste of my time. 00:23:28.074 --> 00:23:28.524 Right. 00:23:29.004 --> 00:23:29.454 Jethro Jones: Yeah. 00:23:29.604 --> 00:23:37.314 Derek Mitchell: the same with, you know, really trying to build will with folks who the problem isn't will, they just don't understand what you're asking them to do. 00:23:37.944 --> 00:23:38.304 Jethro Jones: Yep. 00:23:38.514 --> 00:23:42.294 Derek Mitchell: Um, so you also have to adjust your pedagogy, your adult learning. 00:23:42.924 --> 00:23:45.024 To where the challenge is, right? 00:23:45.119 --> 00:23:45.539 Jethro Jones: Mm-hmm. 00:23:45.594 --> 00:23:50.604 Derek Mitchell: everybody like they're all having the same challenge, which is almost always not the truth. 00:23:51.534 --> 00:23:51.864 Jethro Jones: Yeah. 00:23:52.109 --> 00:23:52.459 Derek Mitchell: Right. 00:23:52.464 --> 00:23:54.654 Jethro Jones: Uh, so this has been a great conversation. 00:23:54.654 --> 00:23:57.234 Really appreciate you coming on Transformative principle and talking. 00:23:57.234 --> 00:24:05.274 Derek, my last question I ask everybody is, what is one thing that a principal can do this week to be a Transformative leader like you? 00:24:07.284 --> 00:24:18.204 Derek Mitchell: Um, what comes to mind right now for me, the one thing that I think our, our, our building leaders should do, is manage their time more strategically. 00:24:19.374 --> 00:24:19.704 Right. 00:24:20.004 --> 00:24:29.664 Uh, what I suggest for building leaders is to do two things that will make their lives vastly, uh, better, um, and enable 'em to be more effective. 00:24:29.664 --> 00:24:33.354 The first is to plan space between things. 00:24:34.584 --> 00:24:38.034 So zero back to back meetings, zero zippo. 00:24:38.184 --> 00:24:40.314 Not a none, not a single one. 00:24:41.339 --> 00:24:44.574 and, and they always look at me like I'm crazy when I say it. 00:24:45.564 --> 00:24:48.654 but the ones who are able to make this happen for themselves, they get it. 00:24:48.654 --> 00:24:55.884 And I explained it to them by saying, listen, in every meeting you're in with others, you're making promises, right? 00:24:55.914 --> 00:24:57.744 You're deciding on courses of action. 00:24:57.744 --> 00:25:11.694 You're, you're, you're thinking about new strategies, new tactics, new tools, new processes, new relationships, but, and you have no time to execute on what it is you're promising and thinking about if you back to back yourself. 00:25:11.694 --> 00:25:21.414 I. So force into every, every schedule, 30 minutes between everything and I mean everything, And if you have to travel, make it longer. 00:25:22.224 --> 00:25:26.664 that way you really do, uh, have the time to deliver against what it is. 00:25:26.664 --> 00:25:30.114 You're talking to all these folks in all these, these, these situations about. 00:25:30.264 --> 00:25:36.594 And the second is to schedule blocks of time where you're in classrooms without fail. 00:25:36.594 --> 00:25:37.899 I. Right. 00:25:38.109 --> 00:25:46.239 Um, just literally make it a, you know, there's a Tuesday block and a Wednesday block and a Friday block that there's nothing else happens in that time. 00:25:46.869 --> 00:26:01.449 But you being out there inspecting what you expect community with the other adults to help kids learn, knowing the students and their needs, um, uh, uh, being really present. 00:26:01.599 --> 00:26:05.859 'cause there's nothing communicates respect better than proximity. 00:26:07.864 --> 00:26:08.499 Jethro Jones: Y Yeah. 00:26:08.559 --> 00:26:15.969 And, and on that piece of being in the classrooms, a lot of people think that means that you're there doing observations and giving feedback to teachers, 00:26:16.194 --> 00:26:16.614 Derek Mitchell: Mm-hmm. 00:26:16.749 --> 00:26:19.179 Jethro Jones: that's not the only reason to be in the classroom. 00:26:19.179 --> 00:26:30.639 The, the more important reason in my mind is to talk with your teachers and understand where they're at and how they see the vision of where the school's going and whether or not we're living up to it. 00:26:30.999 --> 00:26:32.829 Because the cool thing is, is that. 00:26:33.204 --> 00:26:39.714 You don't have to do as many observations when you know that the teachers are doing the vision of the school. 00:26:39.924 --> 00:26:47.484 And so the observation, sure, they're important, but let's be honest, teachers don't want feedback from their principal all the time. 00:26:47.694 --> 00:26:51.564 What they want is a conversation that's ongoing, and sometimes there's feedback. 00:26:51.564 --> 00:26:53.784 Sometimes it's, Hey, gimme an idea about this. 00:26:53.994 --> 00:26:56.544 Other times it's, it's something else entirely. 00:26:57.024 --> 00:26:58.194 But the thing is. 00:26:58.554 --> 00:27:01.464 It can be so much more than just go in and do observations. 00:27:01.464 --> 00:27:04.224 At the beginning of my career, I thought I needed to just do observations. 00:27:04.434 --> 00:27:12.384 By the end, I was doing very little observations because that wasn't where the important work was happening, and I wasn't, that wasn't the best use of my time. 00:27:12.384 --> 00:27:15.144 So these are two very good suggestions. 00:27:15.144 --> 00:27:21.984 Plan space between meetings and scheduled blocks of time in classrooms, not only to observe. 00:27:22.374 --> 00:27:26.334 Um, if people wanna connect with you more, what's the best way to do that, Derek? 00:27:26.409 --> 00:27:31.149 Derek Mitchell: best way is to email me, um, at dMitchell@partnersinschools.org. 00:27:32.409 --> 00:27:37.659 Um, and you can find, you know, the partners work on our website to searching partners in school Innovation. 00:27:38.559 --> 00:27:39.099 Jethro Jones: Excellent. 00:27:39.099 --> 00:27:39.699 Very good. 00:27:39.969 --> 00:27:45.849 Well, I've got links to that in the show note, so please feel free to check that out at Transformative principle.org. 00:27:46.599 --> 00:27:49.809 Thank you so much for being here, Derek, it was great to have you on the show today. 00:27:50.169 --> 00:27:51.219 Derek Mitchell: It's wonderful to be here. 00:27:51.219 --> 00:27:52.659 Thank you for what you do. 00:27:52.689 --> 00:27:57.819 Jethro, for all the leaders and teachers who are learning what they can from this podcast.