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Welcome to The Crucible, Conversations for the Curious.

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I am Hamish, your host.

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This podcast is for anyone going through awakenings, trying to make sense of life.

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Whether dark nights are the soul, needing to make life -changing decisions, struggling
with addiction or critical illness, or simply realizing that their life as they know it is

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not aligned to values and purpose.

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You are not alone.

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You can get through this, promise you.

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Life is far more beautiful on the other side.

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Hi everybody, today we are chatting with Gayle.

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She's a friend of mine, I met her a couple of years ago, and we chat from time to time
across the pond and things like that.

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So, Gayle, thanks for turning up this morning.

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Well, Hamish, thanks for asking me.

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I'm looking forward to the conversation.

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Lovely.

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Well, can you tell me a little bit about your awakening and your journey?

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Sure.

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Do you want me to start with the awakening and go backwards or start with the journey to
the awakening?

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I think it's always good to start with a little bit of a backstory.

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So what happened leading up to the awakening?

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Yeah.

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Okay, I started using drugs at, to me, a young age.

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Some people I know started younger.

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I was probably a freshman in high school.

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And I always had the sense that I felt like I didn't belong.

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And then I had a tragedy happen in my life that when something happens in your life and
you're young, you make up stories.

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And so I had a best friend.

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who got leukemia and passed away.

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And her mother, I heard her mother tell my mom that a doctor said that a shock to her
system activated this leukemia in her body.

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And the shock to her system was we were at the ocean together and got on some motorcycles
and were riding in the waves having fun.

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And to me, that triggered at that age that I was responsible for my best friend dying.

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And so add that to feeling that I'll never fit in.

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Alcohol and drugs became kind of my escape and was my escape from that time until I turned
50, so 40 some odd years.

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And I would consider myself a high functioning addict, alcoholic.

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I always maintained a job.

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I always showed up for work.

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However, I was also always in highly abusive relationships because I felt like I deserved
that, if you will, looking back on it, not in the process of relationships, but my

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relationships were always abusive.

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They started out physically and emotionally abusive.

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And as I got older,

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the physical abuse finally went away, but there was still the emotional abuse.

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I would say spiritual abuse, except at the time I wasn't a spiritual person.

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So that didn't get into the equation.

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And then I had a...

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a really,

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embarrassing, I guess, would be the thing that happened to me.

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And it kind of shook me to my core.

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I got really, really drunk with people that were younger than I was.

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We were all going to University of Phoenix together.

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and they had a party and I went and I, when I would get drunk, I'd drink myself into
blackouts so I wouldn't remember what I'd done or who I was with.

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And, you know, that's risky at best, but it shook me to the core.

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And then I kind of heard this voice that said, you know, if you don't change,

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what you're doing, you're gonna die, or you're going to kill somebody.

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And so it kind of put me on this quest like, maybe I should find some sort of spiritual
anchor.

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I didn't at that time think about giving up drugs and alcohol.

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But I thought about seeking out some sort of spiritual anchor for whatever reason.

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And I found Centers for Spiritual Living at the time it was called Religious Science,
which I am now an ordained minister of that organisation.

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I found that and started taking the classes.

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And I will say as I was taking the classes, I was still using alcohol, still taking drugs.

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You know, nothing had really changed except I was showing up.

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every day at this organisation and taking classes and being in community.

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And I went out to, I went out with a friend one night and did my normal behavior, you
know, drank too much, danced on tables, literally.

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came home, went to bed, and I call it a numinous experience.

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It's something that is, you can't explain, like what happened from the time I went to bed
and passed out to when I woke up.

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And the first thought I had when I woke up on October 19th of 2002 was, you're done.

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No more alcohol, no more drugs, no more cigarettes.

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And...

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I have never looked back.

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And so for me, that was my awakening experience and unexplainable.

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I mean, you know, people will say, well, you were taking classes, you know, yeah, that was
true.

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But I did not have a conscious thought of, wow, if you quit drinking and using drugs, your
life is probably going to change.

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drastically.

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That was not a thought.

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I was still, although I was scratching the surface of not feeling that I wasn't enough and
I was still struggling with belonging, that changed my life when I quit covering

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everything up with the drugs and the alcohol.

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You know, I say to people, it's like,

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When you're using it's like being on one of those wheels like hamster wheels.

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You know, you do something you're ashamed of.

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You drink and use drugs so you don't have to remember.

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So you can shut up the monkey mind.

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And then you do something to add to the last embarrassment when it just builds on itself.

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And once you stop...

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then you really have to look at yourself and go, okay, now what?

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Wow.

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That's, that is something, isn't it?

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I love the way you, you started to change.

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You went to that community and you got involved with it, but there was still all the old
stuff behind you, the drinking and the drugs and the partying and stuff like that.

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And it's, we don't sort of see how much we drag with us at all.

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but going back to that night, have you sort of deconstructed it and worked out what
happened or have you, have you given it a story or a name?

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You know, honestly, no.

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What happened was I do remember, and interestingly enough, which is kind of confusing, I
remember being with a friend.

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And in my mind, it's a different friend than it actually was.

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Does that make sense?

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You know, I have attached to...

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nights that I went out and made them kind of one but I but the reads and I know it was
this one friend is because we were supposed to go to a concert and I didn't go because

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once I realised there were going to be no drugs and alcohol in my life then all the fear
of being around people I didn't know because that was my courage and you take away the

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courage and now what?

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And so the thing that happened was, you know, she came over, we decided to go out.

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So we, you know, we used before we went out, we smoked pot, we snorted some coke.

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You know, we got the courage to go out and be around people.

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And then we drank.

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And, you know, I went, we went to two different bars.

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And I remember having a discussion with a gentleman at one of the bars and,

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you know, fortunately, you know, he, he was like, I want to come home with you.

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And I'm like, you're married, you know, and his, and he said to me, my wife doesn't care.

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And I said, well, give me her number and I'll call her.

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And if she really doesn't care, sure.

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And you know, he wouldn't give me the number, thank God.

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But so, you know, that is what I remember about the night.

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And I remember going home.

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And then I just remember waking up with this clear thought.

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I mean, I remember coming downstairs and my friend was downstairs and I sat on the bottom
step and I looked at her and I said, I'm not doing this anymore.

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You know, and she also not that year, but I think the following year, because we had a
long history on and off of, you know, partying to the hilt, even when we were raising our

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kids.

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You know, we'd party at home.

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You know, you think now about.

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the influence you have on your kids or the damage that you do to your kids.

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And our whole thing was keeping our kids safe.

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So, you know, they they were in the house with us as we're drinking and playing Pac -Man
and and things.

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And so, yeah, so I don't remember a lot about the night.

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I just remember waking up and just knowing that's done.

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So in one fell swoop you said, right, no more coping strategies, no more coping
mechanisms.

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How did you navigate that?

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How did you feel?

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Because when I stopped, it was scary.

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Yeah, I think, you know, I look back on that and I was either foolish or divinely
inspired.

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And, you know, it could go either way.

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You know, you're either there's that thin line between sanity and being crazy.

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And I think that there's that line between being not aware and being divinely inspired.

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I think that, and I've shared this with people and it's kind of hard to put into words,
what I realized was I was being pulled towards something.

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And had I known that, I probably would have dug my feet in and said, absolutely not.

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And so I always say that my higher power, my divine inspiration, whatever people want to
call it, tricked me.

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along the way.

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It was never glaring that this is the path you're going to be on.

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It was always veiled so I would walk through the next door without fear.

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And so I kept showing up in community.

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You know, I literally because without the drugs and alcohol, I was, you know, they say
that whenever you started, that's how, how emotionally old you are.

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So, you know, I am now a 50 year old adult and an emotionally 13 year old child trying to
navigate life.

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And it was it was scary.

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And it was I'm just going to keep showing up.

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Yeah, I think that that was I just I signed up for every class they offered.

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I.

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You know, that if you go to AA, they talk about being of service, you know, make the
coffee, set up the chairs.

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I showed up early to everything and volunteered.

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And so I remember that she's now a very, very good friend of mine.

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She was the minister at the community I joined.

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And she used to say, I was her, you know, her golden child volunteer.

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because I just did things and got them done, you know, that corporate background.

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But now I had all of this energy, if you will, that wasn't tapped down by drugs and
alcohol and also driven by that fear of what if people find out that I don't, because I

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still didn't think I belonged.

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And I think the classes, because they were spiritual classes, helped me.

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peel back the onion if you will to get to my true self a lot quicker than if I didn't have

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a base of, you know, I, it was a, you know, the thing about.

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the community that I belong to and what I'm a minister of is that we teach taking
responsibility for your life.

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So you and I met, I believe in the Canfield organization.

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And what I teach the community I belong to is everything that Jack teaches, Jack Canfield,
everything that he teaches with a very spiritual element to it.

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And so it was a huge way to get clean and sober because it gave you not only the community
that you get in a 12 -step program, it gave you the psychological opportunity, if you

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will, all the things you'd get in going to a therapist.

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You know, how do you...

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How do you peel back that onion?

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How do you let go of all those old beliefs?

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So I think that helped.

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Brilliant.

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It is interesting, isn't it?

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Because AA has a religious aspect to it, which really upsets an awful lot of people now.

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A couple of things I want to ask you about.

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Did you sort of question your sanity?

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Because, I mean, you alluded to that a little bit, but did you question what was going on?

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Why am I suddenly going spiritual and woo -woo, perhaps?

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Because it was party, and now this is something completely different.

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Did I, you know, I probably always questioned my sanity.

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I think for me, and it's interesting you use the word woo woo, because, you know, for me,
what my husband has said, her halo is not on too tight.

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You know, I still swear like a truck driver.

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You know, I don't do it if I'm speaking on a Sunday morning, but, you know, I still.

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I don't dress up in goddess wear, if you will.

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I am more of the walk your talk, speak your truth, don't beat people over the head with
it.

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I read something today that it's not about telling people what they need to do, it's about
living your life.

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to a point that they're like, I want that.

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I want to know how did you change your life instead of saying, this is it.

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Because everybody's answer is going to be different.

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You know, my thing is AA is an amazing organisation and has helped millions of people.

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It's not the path that I took.

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And as you know, for people that are true,

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or I don't want to use the word militant.

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I'm trying to think of a word.

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You know, they're very pro, if you will, AA.

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You know, even in my organization where people have used the 12 -step program and this to
stay clean and sober, when I...

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got my, when I became a minister, their thing was, well, what do you mean you didn't use
AA?

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You have to go to AA.

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And literally said, you know, one of the conditions, if you will, to me becoming a
minister, to them saying that, you know, I could go on into the next step of ministry was

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I needed to start going to AA.

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And I look back on that now and I did it because I really wanted to be a minister, but...

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I look back on it now and I probably had I really been that confident said, no, you know,
it works for a lot of people.

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It's not my path.

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But instead I went and you know, I did AA for probably a couple of years and then I didn't
because it really isn't my path.

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And so for people who...

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find a path to get them clean and sober.

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All I care about is you're clean and sober.

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You know, how you do it, as long as you don't pick up a drink or as long as you don't use
drugs, I don't care.

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You know, celebrate the fact that you're not using.

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And so that didn't answer your question.

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Did I feel like I was crazy?

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There's a lot of times that I have felt like,

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I don't know, crazy, but not normal.

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Right?

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Like, I will look at something literally because I think that alcoholism is a disease.

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And so when I'm in a situation and I want to react out of my fear or my mental...

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acuity as an addict, even though I'm clean and sober, that brain is still there.

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I will stop and say, and I will pick somebody that I assume is normal, whether they are or
not, I don't know.

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And I'll say, if so -and -so was in this situation, let's say it's you, and I'll say, if
Hamish was here, how would he handle this situation?

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And it gives me an opportunity, just by asking the question, to take a breath.

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00:19:38,354 --> 00:19:57,534
and really think about how I want to respond because I think that my insanity is I respond
by shooting from the hip and that's not always wise and it's not always graceful or filled

212
00:19:57,534 --> 00:20:06,094
with grace and so just to take that breath and I think that's the insanity of being an
addict.

213
00:20:06,290 --> 00:20:25,103
And, you know, there's a blessing to that also.

214
00:20:25,103 --> 00:20:27,093
It is it is always that little pause, isn't it?

215
00:20:27,093 --> 00:20:29,562
That's when you can change the world.

216
00:20:29,562 --> 00:20:32,443
I was talking to someone last week and that's exactly what he said.

217
00:20:32,443 --> 00:20:36,163
He said that pause opens up every single potential.

218
00:20:36,163 --> 00:20:37,193
I can react.

219
00:20:37,193 --> 00:20:38,003
I can shoot them.

220
00:20:38,003 --> 00:20:38,753
I can get angry.

221
00:20:38,753 --> 00:20:39,393
I can be nice.

222
00:20:39,393 --> 00:20:40,033
I can run away.

223
00:20:40,033 --> 00:20:41,729
I can do anything.

224
00:20:42,499 --> 00:20:46,801
but I've just got to take that pause and that's where the magic is.

225
00:20:46,801 --> 00:20:52,355
It's knowing that we're always a choice.

226
00:20:52,355 --> 00:20:53,834
Yeah, absolutely.

227
00:20:53,834 --> 00:21:06,214
I remember, so before I got clean and sober, as you know, on a path to getting clean and
sober, we have little steps where we got clean and sober before, and it didn't take, or we

228
00:21:06,214 --> 00:21:07,554
chose to go back out.

229
00:21:07,554 --> 00:21:19,378
I remember being in, I was in a recovery group, and the person said to me, because I had,

230
00:21:19,378 --> 00:21:27,698
been arrested and the option was I would go to this counseling for a year.

231
00:21:27,698 --> 00:21:33,438
I would stay clean and sober for a year and my record would be expunged.

232
00:21:33,438 --> 00:21:35,878
And I was livid.

233
00:21:35,878 --> 00:21:40,370
I went in with a chip on my shoulder like I was forced to be here.

234
00:21:40,370 --> 00:21:44,830
And the counselor looked at me and she said, you were at choice.

235
00:21:44,830 --> 00:21:46,680
You could have chosen to go to jail.

236
00:21:46,680 --> 00:21:48,590
And I'm like, I would never do that.

237
00:21:48,590 --> 00:21:55,590
She said, I didn't say you do it, but you have to understand the choices on the table.

238
00:21:56,030 --> 00:22:02,850
Because when you don't look at what your choices are, then you assume that you were forced
into something.

239
00:22:02,850 --> 00:22:06,570
She said, you could have picked up and ran.

240
00:22:06,730 --> 00:22:07,786
I'm like,

241
00:22:07,890 --> 00:22:09,630
Again, I couldn't do that.

242
00:22:09,630 --> 00:22:14,510
She said, you wouldn't do that, but lots of people do, so there's a choice.

243
00:22:14,510 --> 00:22:17,810
Or you could choose to be here in treatment.

244
00:22:18,010 --> 00:22:22,870
So even though the court mandated it, you still had a choice.

245
00:22:22,870 --> 00:22:25,790
And it was like that breath.

246
00:22:25,930 --> 00:22:35,650
Now, at that time, I didn't believe her, but I always remembered what she said, that I'm
always a choice.

247
00:22:36,190 --> 00:22:37,330
So.

248
00:22:38,243 --> 00:22:44,583
I think that that is the most powerful thing at all when you realize you do have that
choice.

249
00:22:44,823 --> 00:22:49,683
And it sounds like you, your choices got more and more limited as things went downhill.

250
00:22:49,683 --> 00:22:50,543
Mine certainly did.

251
00:22:50,543 --> 00:22:58,923
It got to that point where I have to it's carry on drinking, driving drunk, and who knows
what happens or check into rehab.

252
00:22:58,923 --> 00:23:03,503
And it is scary, but we always have those choices.

253
00:23:03,503 --> 00:23:05,423
We always have two choices.

254
00:23:05,523 --> 00:23:22,431
Yeah.

255
00:23:22,431 --> 00:23:24,981
I want to ask you about friends and family.

256
00:23:24,981 --> 00:23:29,531
How did they respond to you no longer being the party girl?

257
00:23:30,194 --> 00:23:32,444
A couple of different ways.

258
00:23:32,444 --> 00:23:34,594
I did lose some friends.

259
00:23:34,594 --> 00:23:44,034
I remember having a friend that we'd spent a lot of time together through high school,
like we were best friends in high school.

260
00:23:44,034 --> 00:23:50,794
And we had been hanging out and partying together and then we hadn't seen each other.

261
00:23:50,802 --> 00:23:56,462
And when we finally saw each other again, she said, yeah, like, what have you been doing?

262
00:23:56,462 --> 00:24:03,352
And I said, so I found a spiritual community and I'm not drinking, I'm not using, I'm not
smoking.

263
00:24:03,352 --> 00:24:07,282
And she looked at me and she said, we can't be friends.

264
00:24:07,982 --> 00:24:11,002
And I was crushed.

265
00:24:11,342 --> 00:24:16,422
And to this day, I thank her for that because she's right, we couldn't have been friends.

266
00:24:16,422 --> 00:24:18,702
I couldn't have made that decision.

267
00:24:19,506 --> 00:24:27,706
And if I had maintained a friendship with her, it probably would have put my sobriety at
risk.

268
00:24:27,706 --> 00:24:33,806
And so again, I think it's that divine intervention of her making the statement.

269
00:24:34,726 --> 00:24:41,376
My mom, and I don't know how I handled it before I met my husband.

270
00:24:41,376 --> 00:24:44,526
I probably just said no.

271
00:24:45,386 --> 00:24:48,766
But my mom used to evidently...

272
00:24:48,914 --> 00:24:55,204
always offered me wine even after I quit using, you know, you want a glass of wine.

273
00:24:55,204 --> 00:25:13,054
Because I think she had a hard time with a daughter that was an alcoholic, knowing that it
is a genetic disease in my case and passed down from my family and that she also drank a

274
00:25:13,054 --> 00:25:15,894
lot.

275
00:25:15,894 --> 00:25:16,114
And...

276
00:25:16,114 --> 00:25:30,084
You know, it was that drinking a lot that was normal to me because I assumed every family
came home and had vodka tonics, like, you know, in water glasses, not in short glasses,

277
00:25:30,084 --> 00:25:33,414
but in water glasses, you know, two vodka tonics in the afternoon.

278
00:25:33,414 --> 00:25:35,922
I thought everybody's parents did that.

279
00:25:35,922 --> 00:25:37,782
and drank wine with dinner.

280
00:25:37,782 --> 00:25:38,922
You know, of course they did.

281
00:25:38,922 --> 00:25:39,652
Mine did it.

282
00:25:39,652 --> 00:25:42,982
Everybody, who knows what goes on behind closed doors.

283
00:25:42,982 --> 00:25:48,622
And so, you know, I was that visible mirror for her and it made her uncomfortable.

284
00:25:49,522 --> 00:25:55,442
When I met my husband and we went to my parents' house,

285
00:25:55,666 --> 00:25:58,486
And he can be pretty outspoken.

286
00:25:58,486 --> 00:26:08,576
We walked in and he still drank because we had the conversation before we started dating
about, he said, do you care if I drink?

287
00:26:08,576 --> 00:26:13,146
And I said, as long as you don't expect me to drink with you, I have no problem with it.

288
00:26:13,146 --> 00:26:16,826
And as long as you never get drunk.

289
00:26:17,646 --> 00:26:23,464
If it turns out you're an alcoholic, no, it won't work for me.

290
00:26:23,826 --> 00:26:32,666
And he wasn't because we've been together 22 years now, 20, 22, 22 years, 21.

291
00:26:32,766 --> 00:26:35,206
Clean and sober 22, we've been together 21.

292
00:26:35,206 --> 00:26:40,606
But he walked in and my mom said to him, to both of us, Paul, do you want a glass of wine?

293
00:26:40,606 --> 00:26:41,946
Gayle, do you want a glass of wine?

294
00:26:41,946 --> 00:26:47,066
And he literally said to her, what is wrong with you?

295
00:26:47,426 --> 00:26:52,168
This is the biggest thing your daughter has ever done.

296
00:26:52,594 --> 00:26:55,034
and you're offering her alcohol.

297
00:26:55,034 --> 00:26:58,274
And her response was, it's just wine.

298
00:26:59,194 --> 00:27:03,054
So clueless, I would say.

299
00:27:03,354 --> 00:27:07,384
And I don't know about you, but I'm the baby in our family.

300
00:27:07,384 --> 00:27:09,364
My brother was 12 years older than me.

301
00:27:09,364 --> 00:27:11,094
My sister was eight.

302
00:27:11,414 --> 00:27:15,042
I got to play the focus, right?

303
00:27:15,250 --> 00:27:16,770
I'm the kid with the problems.

304
00:27:16,770 --> 00:27:21,540
I'm the ones that everybody has to like, is she going to be okay?

305
00:27:21,540 --> 00:27:30,930
And you pull that out of the family dynamic and people have to start looking at themselves
and they don't want to.

306
00:27:30,930 --> 00:27:38,050
So they still want to look at you and find out what, you know, they want you to play your
part.

307
00:27:38,050 --> 00:27:44,242
I guess that's what happened in our family dynamic is when I quit playing a part, when I
quit,

308
00:27:44,242 --> 00:27:48,434
allowing them to...

309
00:27:48,434 --> 00:27:51,894
In some cases manipulate me.

310
00:27:52,074 --> 00:28:31,058
When that stopped, it severed a lot of relationships.

311
00:28:31,058 --> 00:28:36,888
for anybody out there, because that sounds pretty scary, like, my God, I'm going to lose
my family.

312
00:28:36,888 --> 00:28:38,878
I'm going to lose my friends.

313
00:28:38,998 --> 00:28:47,738
No, you're going to find new friends and you're going to find real friends, not friends
that are there because you're drinking and using.

314
00:28:47,738 --> 00:28:51,778
And, you know, what I noticed when I look back at.

315
00:28:51,826 --> 00:28:58,346
When I was in my disease, when I look back at being a drug addict alcoholic, I hung out
with drug addict alcoholics.

316
00:28:58,346 --> 00:29:09,726
I didn't realize it at the time, but people that didn't drink and use certainly weren't
the people that I was seeking out, nor were they seeking me out.

317
00:29:10,346 --> 00:29:10,866
So.

318
00:29:10,866 --> 00:29:29,103
you find a new, you find different friends and stronger relationships and your family
shifts to either accepting you or you find a different kind of family.

319
00:29:29,103 --> 00:29:30,333
that's hard, isn't it?

320
00:29:30,333 --> 00:29:34,623
I mean, you, you mentioned that before we, we do play roles.

321
00:29:34,823 --> 00:29:40,123
and when you start to change, somebody will, you know, I'm used to you doing this for me.

322
00:29:40,123 --> 00:29:41,983
I'm used to manipulating you.

323
00:29:41,983 --> 00:29:52,563
I'm used to you jumping when I say how high and that's one of the first things you have to
stop doing when you sober up or when you have any awakening, when you start to change and

324
00:29:52,563 --> 00:29:55,011
believe in yourself, you, you.

325
00:29:55,011 --> 00:29:56,961
Don't jump when someone says jump.

326
00:29:56,961 --> 00:30:00,171
You don't dance to the music they're playing.

327
00:30:00,171 --> 00:30:02,611
And it does cause resistance.

328
00:30:02,611 --> 00:30:10,291
You know, you've mentioned that with friends and family not finding that comfortable and
that girl saying, well, we don't be friends.

329
00:30:10,931 --> 00:30:15,111
How would somebody deal with that when they are experiencing it?

330
00:30:15,111 --> 00:30:19,343
Because it's very uncomfortable and frightening.

331
00:30:19,494 --> 00:30:25,374
uncomfortable and I think that is where AA is so brilliant.

332
00:30:25,374 --> 00:30:29,094
The spiritual community that I had is so brilliant.

333
00:30:29,094 --> 00:30:33,534
You, I don't believe, I couldn't have done this alone.

334
00:30:33,650 --> 00:30:45,990
And it's not like when I say that, it's not like I had people cheering me on or my husband
has always been my number one fan and supporter.

335
00:30:45,990 --> 00:30:47,870
And I did have him.

336
00:30:47,870 --> 00:30:52,306
However, I think that you need community.

337
00:30:52,306 --> 00:31:06,266
not necessarily community, like I said, not a community necessarily that's going to
prevent you from drinking or using, but a community that is going to love you up so much

338
00:31:06,266 --> 00:31:08,006
that you're not going to want to.

339
00:31:09,046 --> 00:31:21,650
You know, that people that don't, aren't judging you because of your past, but people are
looking at you and saying, you know, you go girl, you go guy, you got this, right?

340
00:31:21,650 --> 00:31:27,650
that they're encouraging you always to be the best version of yourself that you can be.

341
00:31:27,910 --> 00:31:30,470
I think we need that as humanity.

342
00:31:30,470 --> 00:31:34,910
And I think that we forget that and we isolate.

343
00:31:34,910 --> 00:31:48,250
I think COVID gave all of us such an opportunity to isolate that to get back out into
community is scary.

344
00:31:48,466 --> 00:31:53,826
You know, I moved after COVID in 2021.

345
00:31:53,826 --> 00:32:01,306
I moved to a very small town on the ocean because I wanted to live on the ocean.

346
00:32:01,306 --> 00:32:08,546
And what I realized, I don't know about you, but whenever I do a big shift in my life, I
do it and I've got my reasons.

347
00:32:08,606 --> 00:32:15,338
And then when I look back on it, I went, that's why I did it.

348
00:32:15,538 --> 00:32:26,098
Again, it's that divine inspiration telling me to do something, but not saying, and this
is why you're gonna go there, because if I knew the why, I wouldn't go.

349
00:32:26,338 --> 00:32:40,146
For me, I needed the last couple of years to sit and really reflect on my path as a
minister, my path as a clean and sober person.

350
00:32:40,146 --> 00:32:45,306
Like what do I have my path now that I'm 72 years old?

351
00:32:45,306 --> 00:32:48,246
Like what do I have to offer the world?

352
00:32:48,686 --> 00:32:55,218
And it gave me time to just be without.

353
00:32:55,218 --> 00:33:04,048
kind of the noise, you know, because I got clean and sober and I got clean and sober where
I needed to get clean and sober.

354
00:33:04,048 --> 00:33:18,498
It was in a spiritual community and I took all the classes and I became a practitioner and
I became a minister and I started a church and it was a different hamster wheel, right?

355
00:33:18,498 --> 00:33:22,802
And I needed to step off and take a breath.

356
00:33:22,802 --> 00:33:33,022
and look at everything I'd learned and everything I did really well and everything I'd
want to do differently to reset.

357
00:33:33,862 --> 00:33:43,002
And so, you know, one of the things that I became really aware of is I love being at the
ocean.

358
00:33:43,002 --> 00:33:47,601
My spiritual community isn't here.

359
00:33:47,601 --> 00:34:03,461
And so we're putting our house on the market and moving to a place where there's, I have a
lot of opportunity to be around my spiritual community because that's a real hole in my

360
00:34:03,461 --> 00:34:04,580
life.

361
00:34:05,170 --> 00:34:17,560
And so I think that that's one of the things that some of the things you do as a sober
person that you'd never do as a drug addict alcoholic, right?

362
00:34:17,560 --> 00:34:25,039
You'd never take time to just reflect.

363
00:34:25,335 --> 00:34:28,975
It's incredibly important, isn't it?

364
00:34:29,315 --> 00:34:33,355
And I'm very aware, I'm not good at it.

365
00:34:33,355 --> 00:34:43,115
It's not something I enjoy doing, but when I do it, it's that's when synchronicities start
to happen because I realise I should be doing this or that makes sense.

366
00:34:43,115 --> 00:34:45,975
So I absolutely hear you there.

367
00:34:46,815 --> 00:34:49,245
You joined a spiritual community.

368
00:34:49,245 --> 00:34:52,641
Do you think people are inherently spiritual?

369
00:34:53,266 --> 00:34:55,226
Yes, I do.

370
00:34:55,226 --> 00:34:57,746
It's what I teach.

371
00:34:58,246 --> 00:35:11,166
So different from, I don't want to say normal religion, different from the very, very
popular religions, if you will.

372
00:35:11,166 --> 00:35:13,906
What I teach is that...

373
00:35:13,906 --> 00:35:16,726
God is in and through and as each and every one of us.

374
00:35:16,726 --> 00:35:25,746
So that's, we are inherently spiritual because we have that divine essence within us, a
soul that goes on and on forever and ever.

375
00:35:26,126 --> 00:35:34,466
And so, you know, if you think about that, then this experience on earth is like a
nanosecond in time if we really knew how to define being infinite.

376
00:35:35,046 --> 00:35:39,606
And I lost my train of thought.

377
00:35:39,606 --> 00:35:40,882
Give me a second.

378
00:35:40,882 --> 00:35:44,362
And I don't believe in heaven and hell.

379
00:35:44,362 --> 00:35:48,582
I think it's a construct that we create here.

380
00:35:49,522 --> 00:35:58,422
And we are, I believe we're here to love everybody, to be kind to everybody.

381
00:35:58,422 --> 00:36:05,402
When I say that, people go, well, what about so -and -so?

382
00:36:05,458 --> 00:36:09,938
So I will take an ex -husband who was physically abusive.

383
00:36:10,418 --> 00:36:17,178
And you know, the question that was asked of me is, so you still want to be married to
him, huh?

384
00:36:17,178 --> 00:36:19,898
And I was like, what?

385
00:36:20,078 --> 00:36:21,208
Why would you say that?

386
00:36:21,208 --> 00:36:23,858
And she said, well, you won't forgive him.

387
00:36:23,858 --> 00:36:30,998
So if you don't forgive him, his dirty little feet are walking across your mind all the
time.

388
00:36:31,058 --> 00:36:33,558
So you know, it's that.

389
00:36:33,586 --> 00:36:54,806
I can now love the essence of who he is knowing that the who he has shown up as on earth
as a as an abusive person is because of what he learned here as a human not how he was

390
00:36:54,806 --> 00:37:02,526
born into being human if that makes sense so he came he came

391
00:37:02,802 --> 00:37:05,282
whole, complete and perfect.

392
00:37:05,302 --> 00:37:11,562
And he was taught to be angry and to be hateful.

393
00:37:11,562 --> 00:37:15,522
I don't think those qualities are inherent in us.

394
00:37:15,522 --> 00:37:18,262
I think those are things we learn.

395
00:37:18,262 --> 00:37:28,520
And so to forgive him and to love the essence of him, that place in him that is divine.

396
00:37:29,426 --> 00:37:43,526
released me from my anger and my hurt and gives him, I think, a little laser of opening to
shift and change if he chooses.

397
00:37:43,586 --> 00:37:48,771
But again, his choice, not mine.

398
00:37:48,771 --> 00:37:55,811
I absolutely love that because that brings in ancestral beliefs.

399
00:37:56,790 --> 00:37:58,371
I'm going to go on a limb here.

400
00:37:58,371 --> 00:38:02,171
Let's assume that his parents passed on that knowledge.

401
00:38:02,171 --> 00:38:08,803
Maybe his mum and dad were abusive, aggressive, and it just goes back and...

402
00:38:08,803 --> 00:38:16,603
You what you've done there, you've chosen to believe you've chosen to make your life
easier by believing he's not inherently horrible.

403
00:38:16,603 --> 00:38:18,583
It was just behavior.

404
00:38:19,783 --> 00:38:22,643
and it's not him.

405
00:38:22,643 --> 00:38:24,683
It's just how he's shown up.

406
00:38:24,683 --> 00:38:28,973
And I think that's a really wise way of looking at things.

407
00:38:28,973 --> 00:38:35,763
Cause when I do that, when I realized throwing empty bottles out of my car window while
driving is just bad behavior.

408
00:38:35,983 --> 00:38:38,943
If I apologise and don't do it again.

409
00:38:39,459 --> 00:38:40,489
that is okay for me.

410
00:38:40,489 --> 00:38:42,059
That's the best I can do.

411
00:38:42,059 --> 00:38:43,528
And you're doing the same thing.

412
00:38:43,528 --> 00:38:45,219
You're saying it's just bad behavior.

413
00:38:45,219 --> 00:38:46,219
He didn't know better.

414
00:38:46,219 --> 00:38:48,739
It's all he was capable of doing.

415
00:38:49,459 --> 00:38:57,479
I forgive him as who he is and I'm not going to drag all that baggage with me and put that
on my next relationship.

416
00:38:57,479 --> 00:38:58,809
And you can't do that.

417
00:38:58,809 --> 00:39:06,619
You can't presume that the next person you're going to go out with, marry, talk to is
going to be like that previous person because that's just foolish.

418
00:39:06,619 --> 00:39:09,042
It's understandable, scary, but it's foolish.

419
00:39:09,042 --> 00:39:17,002
And I will say every relationship up till this one I was carrying my baggage with me.

420
00:39:17,002 --> 00:39:22,782
So every relationship was the same just in a different body.

421
00:39:23,202 --> 00:39:23,702
Right?

422
00:39:23,702 --> 00:39:38,066
Because I was still attracting to me because I was showing up as that I'm not competent, I
deserve to be harmed because I'm not good enough.

423
00:39:38,066 --> 00:39:39,846
You know, all of those things.

424
00:39:39,846 --> 00:39:51,506
And for people that, you know, it's, it's, you never want to blame the person that's being
abused, right?

425
00:39:51,506 --> 00:39:57,926
I don't want people out there to go, my God, she thinks that, that, you know, battered
women, it's their fault.

426
00:39:57,926 --> 00:39:59,166
No.

427
00:39:59,206 --> 00:40:03,986
And, right, there's that juxtaposition, if you will.

428
00:40:03,986 --> 00:40:05,806
No and.

429
00:40:05,938 --> 00:40:08,358
You need to take responsibility.

430
00:40:08,818 --> 00:40:10,428
Even as a battered woman.

431
00:40:10,428 --> 00:40:16,678
If you are a battered woman, there are ways to get out of relationships like that.

432
00:40:16,678 --> 00:40:29,078
And if you can extricate yourself from bad relationship and then put yourself somewhere
and change your behavior, then you're not going to attract that person into your life

433
00:40:29,078 --> 00:40:30,118
anymore.

434
00:40:30,198 --> 00:40:34,226
And you will, or at least I did.

435
00:40:34,226 --> 00:40:44,226
So I've got this, I consider him perfect husband that I met that was 180 degrees from
anybody I'd ever been with in my entire life.

436
00:40:44,246 --> 00:40:54,346
And I would run stories in my head about what, you know, like, my God, he's gonna, you
know, he's gonna do this.

437
00:40:54,546 --> 00:41:00,146
And instead of running the story and making a movie,

438
00:41:00,146 --> 00:41:06,686
and then making it happen because I would build up the big movie until I could make
something explode.

439
00:41:06,686 --> 00:41:10,706
I would just go and say, okay, we need to have a discussion.

440
00:41:10,826 --> 00:41:15,486
This is what's going on in my head and you have to understand it's not about you.

441
00:41:15,766 --> 00:41:24,566
It's about all of that back there, but this is what's going on and so tell me what's
really happening.

442
00:41:24,906 --> 00:41:27,546
You know, why did you do this?

443
00:41:27,546 --> 00:41:28,886
He's like,

444
00:41:29,298 --> 00:41:33,178
You know, first of all, sometimes it was like, I did what?

445
00:41:33,178 --> 00:41:35,158
What did I do?

446
00:41:35,158 --> 00:41:40,418
So, you know, it's that, that gets me into like the four agreements.

447
00:41:40,418 --> 00:41:42,198
Don't assume anything.

448
00:41:42,598 --> 00:41:48,611
You know, you have to have the courage to ask.

449
00:41:48,611 --> 00:41:50,551
Utterly beautiful.

450
00:41:50,551 --> 00:41:52,171
I love that.

451
00:41:52,411 --> 00:41:56,031
That is such an awareness.

452
00:41:56,191 --> 00:42:01,751
I'm going to guess here, but that only came when you sobered up.

453
00:42:01,751 --> 00:42:06,711
That only came when you started to change.

454
00:42:07,091 --> 00:42:10,871
Presumably, what did your self -care change?

455
00:42:10,871 --> 00:42:12,761
Did you start looking after yourself better?

456
00:42:12,761 --> 00:42:16,731
Did you start respecting yourself a bit more?

457
00:42:16,731 --> 00:42:18,363
How did that change?

458
00:42:19,894 --> 00:42:22,114
totally, totally.

459
00:42:22,114 --> 00:42:36,654
So I started a spiritual practice, which I'd never had before, which meant that I was, you
know, reading books like The Four Agreements, reading books like How to Change Your Life,

460
00:42:36,774 --> 00:42:48,786
you know, just kind of being a sponge, you know, because I had all of this spare time now
where I was awake and aware.

461
00:42:48,786 --> 00:42:56,326
So, you know, I could literally sit down with a book and read it and kind of absorb what I
was reading, which was a new experience.

462
00:42:56,866 --> 00:43:05,826
Taking, I took a lot of classes and all of the classes that we teach, and I say we because
not like I said, I'm a minister in the organization now.

463
00:43:05,826 --> 00:43:11,406
All of the classes we teach are about discovering who you are.

464
00:43:11,726 --> 00:43:12,016
Right.

465
00:43:12,016 --> 00:43:17,362
And so I was taking all of those classes and was really

466
00:43:17,362 --> 00:43:29,982
hungry and at the time I remember saying to people when I would talk about it if somebody
had said you need to take the penny and roll it with your nose for a mile and that'll

467
00:43:29,982 --> 00:43:44,734
change your life I would have done it because I was desperate to you know it was like okay
if I'm if I'm gonna do this I'm all in but what do I need to do and so you know I just

468
00:43:44,946 --> 00:43:47,806
It was about feeding my soul.

469
00:43:48,106 --> 00:43:59,866
And when I changed, then surprisingly, my friends changed and I attracted my husband into
my life.

470
00:43:59,966 --> 00:44:07,126
And we both agree, if we had met before I got clean and sober, we wouldn't have even seen
each other.

471
00:44:09,026 --> 00:44:12,526
He would have been too kind and I wouldn't have deserved that.

472
00:44:12,666 --> 00:44:13,290
And...

473
00:44:13,298 --> 00:44:16,538
I would have been too drunk.

474
00:44:17,118 --> 00:44:20,898
So, you know, quite frankly, I laugh, but that's who I was.

475
00:44:20,898 --> 00:44:23,907
So.

476
00:44:23,907 --> 00:44:26,347
Yeah, that's just the way it is, isn't it?

477
00:44:26,387 --> 00:44:30,487
We attract what we're used to, what we're familiar with.

478
00:44:30,587 --> 00:44:35,627
And I mean, I love the way you phrased it about the battered women.

479
00:44:36,227 --> 00:44:40,837
We have to change our perspective, how we view the world.

480
00:44:40,837 --> 00:44:42,727
We have to start being kind to ourselves.

481
00:44:42,727 --> 00:44:44,207
And it is difficult.

482
00:44:44,207 --> 00:44:45,457
It really, really is.

483
00:44:45,457 --> 00:44:47,867
I was not kind to myself.

484
00:44:47,907 --> 00:44:53,067
But as I went through my awakening, it became important.

485
00:44:53,636 --> 00:44:58,376
What would you suggest to people to do to start going through that awakening?

486
00:44:58,376 --> 00:45:12,434
What can they do to make sense of where they are and try and sort of build a foundation to
get to sort of move, make sense of what they're doing and move through it?

487
00:45:12,434 --> 00:45:20,874
So are you asking me as a person who is clean and sober and so they've had an awakening
and they're moving forward, how do they move through that?

488
00:45:21,507 --> 00:45:30,547
could be that or it could be they're watching this and they're going yeah or there's
there's something they're tapping on their shoulder and they're going like bugger off I

489
00:45:30,547 --> 00:45:33,554
don't want you but knowing that they've got a change

490
00:45:33,554 --> 00:45:35,134
Okay, right there.

491
00:45:35,134 --> 00:45:36,694
Right there is a good point.

492
00:45:36,694 --> 00:45:40,354
So you've got that tapping on your shoulder and you're going bugger off, I don't want to
listen to you.

493
00:45:40,354 --> 00:45:41,794
Listen to it.

494
00:45:41,974 --> 00:45:42,634
Right?

495
00:45:42,634 --> 00:45:50,610
Because that is to me, that's that internal wisdom that is saying, you know,

496
00:45:50,610 --> 00:45:51,670
It's time.

497
00:45:51,670 --> 00:45:53,270
I think we all have it.

498
00:45:53,270 --> 00:46:01,850
And I think a lot of people don't listen to their intuition because they don't think that
they're intuitive.

499
00:46:01,850 --> 00:46:03,350
We're all intuitive.

500
00:46:03,350 --> 00:46:09,610
It's just a matter of us practicing and listening.

501
00:46:09,730 --> 00:46:10,226
If.

502
00:46:10,226 --> 00:46:21,446
I was always intuitive, but if I am drinking and using, my intuition is so far down on the
spectrum of what my reality is, I don't think I'm intuitive.

503
00:46:21,446 --> 00:46:25,566
And then when you stop, then you've got the monkey mind going.

504
00:46:25,566 --> 00:46:32,114
And so you can't hear your intuition because you've got this loud speaker that basically
is...

505
00:46:32,114 --> 00:46:46,814
doing that to get you to go back to your old behaviors because for whatever reason and I I
don't know because I'm not a neuroscientist our subconscious mind is very comfortable

506
00:46:46,814 --> 00:46:57,490
where it is whether that's good bad or indifferent it likes where it is it doesn't like
change and so you kind of have to fool it.

507
00:46:57,490 --> 00:46:58,080
right?

508
00:46:58,080 --> 00:47:02,910
So that it doesn't get scared and try to make you go back to, okay, we're just going to be
comfortable.

509
00:47:02,910 --> 00:47:19,490
So for me, one of the things that I think is brilliant, you know, we talk about using
affirmations or Jack Canfield, and I learned that when I was in the organisation that I'm

510
00:47:19,490 --> 00:47:22,110
in, we teach affirmations.

511
00:47:22,350 --> 00:47:26,130
But the problem with an affirmation is if I say,

512
00:47:26,734 --> 00:47:34,674
I am a, I am a healthy, fit, flexible 125 pounds.

513
00:47:34,674 --> 00:47:40,374
My subconscious mind is going to go, did you look at the scale this morning?

514
00:47:40,374 --> 00:47:44,254
Because I don't think it said 125 pounds.

515
00:47:44,794 --> 00:47:49,574
However, our subconscious mind does like to solve problems.

516
00:47:50,174 --> 00:47:53,994
So instead of saying I am, say what if.

517
00:47:54,614 --> 00:47:56,106
What if...

518
00:47:56,370 --> 00:48:01,610
I'm a fit, flexible, healthy, 125 pounds.

519
00:48:01,610 --> 00:48:05,170
And the subconscious mind will go, I don't know.

520
00:48:05,330 --> 00:48:06,490
What if?

521
00:48:06,490 --> 00:48:17,850
So if you're a person who wants to get clean and sober and you're not, just ask yourself
every day, what if I quit drinking?

522
00:48:17,850 --> 00:48:20,210
What if I quit using?

523
00:48:20,230 --> 00:48:25,010
And just kind of open up the opportunity.

524
00:48:25,586 --> 00:48:31,426
Find a community, whether it's a spiritual community, whether it's an AA community.

525
00:48:31,966 --> 00:48:51,506
You know, the wonderful thing about AA that I found when I did go was you can tell stories
there that would shock your family and friends, and everybody in a room will laugh out

526
00:48:51,506 --> 00:48:52,334
loud.

527
00:48:52,722 --> 00:49:02,762
because they have either got a similar story or a story that will make yours look like, my
God, you're just a beginner.

528
00:49:03,502 --> 00:49:13,362
So, you know, find a community that is gonna support you on your transition because you're
not meant to do it alone.

529
00:49:13,362 --> 00:49:15,986
I'm not saying you can't do it alone.

530
00:49:15,986 --> 00:49:19,166
Because we can do whatever we want to do.

531
00:49:19,166 --> 00:49:21,626
You know, we can power through anything.

532
00:49:21,626 --> 00:49:25,816
But if you want to do it easy, find a community that's going to support you.

533
00:49:25,816 --> 00:49:30,116
Because it's going to make a huge difference in your life.

534
00:49:30,116 --> 00:49:31,646
You want cheerleaders.

535
00:49:31,646 --> 00:49:39,566
You don't want people who are going to say, come on, just one glass of wine isn't going to
hurt you.

536
00:49:39,706 --> 00:49:44,286
Or, you know, I had somebody ask me recently.

537
00:49:44,754 --> 00:49:48,314
because I guess they thought 21 years was a magic number.

538
00:49:48,314 --> 00:49:51,074
Do you think you could have a glass of wine now?

539
00:49:51,074 --> 00:49:54,074
I was like, yeah, I could.

540
00:49:54,074 --> 00:50:01,294
But the problem is the glass of wine would end up being a bottle and then the bottle would
turn into tequila.

541
00:50:01,654 --> 00:50:06,214
And it's a slippery slope because I've been there.

542
00:50:06,614 --> 00:50:08,778
I have...

543
00:50:09,394 --> 00:50:16,214
I had before this time tried different ways to be clean and sober, if you will.

544
00:50:16,214 --> 00:50:31,014
And so I think that just, you know, first of all, stop for a day and find out what that
feels like and it will be uncomfortable.

545
00:50:31,014 --> 00:50:36,891
But, you know, maybe one day I'll turn into two.

546
00:50:36,891 --> 00:50:38,238
Yeah.

547
00:50:38,238 --> 00:50:42,979
think community is probably the biggest thing.

548
00:50:42,979 --> 00:50:44,699
I think so too.

549
00:50:44,699 --> 00:50:46,519
I think it is.

550
00:50:46,519 --> 00:50:49,489
Why can't we make our lives easier?

551
00:50:49,489 --> 00:50:51,929
Why can't we find tools to make our lives easier?

552
00:50:51,929 --> 00:50:54,249
Why can't we find communities?

553
00:50:54,249 --> 00:50:58,339
Why can't we change beliefs and stories to make our lives easier?

554
00:50:58,339 --> 00:51:02,199
Surely it makes sense if, you know, that's why we have a car.

555
00:51:02,199 --> 00:51:05,659
So we don't have to carry all our stuff back from the shops.

556
00:51:05,659 --> 00:51:07,219
So we don't have to walk to work.

557
00:51:07,219 --> 00:51:11,269
Why can't we find ways to make our lives easier?

558
00:51:11,269 --> 00:51:12,035
Is that

559
00:51:12,035 --> 00:51:12,955
Is that wrong?

560
00:51:12,955 --> 00:51:18,705
Is that making life easy when it really should be hard?

561
00:51:19,186 --> 00:51:27,746
It's see that's that's the thing I I You hear people say, you know, marriage is hard.

562
00:51:27,746 --> 00:51:29,326
No, it's not.

563
00:51:29,326 --> 00:51:30,486
Marriage is work.

564
00:51:30,486 --> 00:51:32,266
No, I have a job.

565
00:51:32,266 --> 00:51:34,706
You know, marriage is communication.

566
00:51:34,706 --> 00:51:37,186
Are you always going to make each other happy?

567
00:51:37,186 --> 00:51:37,906
No.

568
00:51:37,906 --> 00:51:41,326
However, and marriage to me, relationship, whatever.

569
00:51:41,326 --> 00:51:42,866
It's about communication.

570
00:51:42,866 --> 00:51:45,746
It's about being honest.

571
00:51:45,746 --> 00:51:48,242
It's and that's

572
00:51:48,242 --> 00:52:02,962
I think we are so conditioned to protect ourselves because we're afraid, well, if I say
something, they won't like me or I'll hurt their feelings or whatever.

573
00:52:02,962 --> 00:52:05,082
However, we've been conditioned.

574
00:52:05,082 --> 00:52:08,162
We've all been conditioned to build these walls.

575
00:52:08,242 --> 00:52:12,914
And by building these walls, what we're doing is we're shutting out.

576
00:52:12,914 --> 00:52:22,234
everything because if I and I truly believe God is in and through and as everything when I
build a wall who am I really shutting out?

577
00:52:22,854 --> 00:52:40,174
I'm shutting out the essence of the divine that is Hamish right so yeah it's it's it's
really conditioning out of fear and you have fear and you have love and most of us

578
00:52:40,562 --> 00:52:50,019
Most of us, I think, go through life letting fear be the driver without even knowing it.

579
00:52:50,019 --> 00:52:51,839
Yep, absolutely.

580
00:52:52,579 --> 00:53:05,283
Did you have to question a lot of your stories and beliefs and patterns when you sobered
up, when you joined that community?

581
00:56:02,322 --> 00:56:07,942
I had to stop thinking that I wasn't enough.

582
00:56:07,942 --> 00:56:09,602
That was huge.

583
00:56:11,202 --> 00:56:20,722
I, you know, I don't know, I had to really listen to how I talked about myself.

584
00:56:21,382 --> 00:56:30,024
So I evidently would say things like, I'm stupid, or I, you know,

585
00:56:30,066 --> 00:56:33,326
I always do this or I never do that.

586
00:56:33,326 --> 00:56:47,786
And I had a minister who would say, when I would say something negative about myself, she
would say, and so it is, because I believe our words are powerful.

587
00:56:47,786 --> 00:56:59,986
So if I say, I'm stupid, then the universe is saying, okay, so we'll prove to her that
she's stupid, you know?

588
00:56:59,986 --> 00:57:12,798
And so she would say to me, and so it is, because it would make me stop and think, am I
saying things that are positive about myself?

589
00:57:13,202 --> 00:57:20,302
which we don't do because we're raised to believe, I think, or I was, don't be too grand
dose.

590
00:57:20,302 --> 00:57:27,202
Don't go around saying, you know, people will think you're a snob or think people will
think you're you think you're better than everybody else.

591
00:57:27,202 --> 00:57:34,672
And so then we conditioned ourselves to think negative about ourselves, that we're not
good enough, that we don't fit in that, you know.

592
00:57:34,672 --> 00:57:41,906
And so I had to recondition and relearn.

593
00:57:41,906 --> 00:57:44,566
how to think and how to talk about myself.

594
00:57:44,566 --> 00:57:46,286
And that was huge.

595
00:57:46,286 --> 00:57:55,826
And that was not something that just went, okay, now she's gonna change how she talks and
thinks about herself and life's gonna become easy.

596
00:57:55,826 --> 00:58:04,046
It was a process that is still a process because something can happen in my life today.

597
00:58:04,338 --> 00:58:18,598
and you look at 50 years of one behavior and 20 years of another behavior, if I am in a
situation where I'm responding from fear, which behavior is going to win?

598
00:58:18,958 --> 00:58:20,198
This one.

599
00:58:20,198 --> 00:58:22,884
It's still there, right?

600
00:58:22,898 --> 00:58:25,048
it's a conditioning that's still there.

601
00:58:25,048 --> 00:58:27,878
It's just that I have a choice to behave differently.

602
00:58:27,878 --> 00:58:36,278
And that's, we get, you know, kind of come full circle getting back to taking that breath
and making a choice to respond from the new behavior.

603
00:58:36,278 --> 00:58:45,938
So for me, I had to recondition every aspect of my life, how I think, how I speak.

604
00:58:45,938 --> 00:58:59,478
you know about myself, how I respond to others instead of responding out of being timid or
responding with what I think they want to hear.

605
00:58:59,898 --> 00:59:11,238
You know just responding if I'm going to be truthful if somebody wants the truth then
taking that breath how do I do this in the kindest way possible and how do I make my

606
00:59:11,238 --> 00:59:15,218
response my response and not about

607
00:59:15,218 --> 00:59:16,658
them.

608
00:59:16,858 --> 00:59:20,808
So if somebody says to me, did I hurt your feelings?

609
00:59:20,808 --> 00:59:34,538
Instead of saying, yes, you hurt my feelings, saying, well, when you said this, this is
how I interpreted it and how it made me feel.

610
00:59:34,538 --> 00:59:38,818
Because you can't hurt my feelings.

611
00:59:38,818 --> 00:59:43,258
My feelings are mine and so you can just push some button.

612
00:59:43,634 --> 00:59:52,375
if you know I hope that makes sense so yeah I had to change everything about me how about
you?

613
00:59:52,375 --> 00:59:53,155
Absolutely.

614
00:59:53,155 --> 00:59:55,215
And it's very tiring.

615
00:59:55,215 --> 01:00:06,035
And I think, I think that is something that must be really explained to people that
certainly early recovery from addiction, from alcohol.

616
01:00:06,815 --> 01:00:09,155
in fact, changing anything is tiring.

617
01:00:09,155 --> 01:00:10,535
So allow yourself to sleep.

618
01:00:10,535 --> 01:00:16,995
I mean, I still put myself to bed three days a week in the afternoon because I'm just
exhausted.

619
01:00:18,015 --> 01:00:21,527
and you know, I've been clean five and a half years and that's, it's.

620
01:00:21,527 --> 01:00:26,947
I don't know why it is, but it's, it is tiring, changing, checking everything about
yourself.

621
01:00:26,947 --> 01:00:28,187
Just is that story true?

622
01:00:28,187 --> 01:00:29,337
Is that story true?

623
01:00:29,337 --> 01:00:31,207
Is that story true?

624
01:00:31,267 --> 01:00:36,657
Because usually it's not, as you said, it's got 50 years of, of looking at it one way.

625
01:00:36,657 --> 01:00:41,407
And now we're trying to improve ourselves, trying to sort of be more aligned with who we
are.

626
01:00:41,407 --> 01:00:48,975
So it is tiring and it is uncomfortable, but I guess it's also really worth it.

627
01:00:49,042 --> 01:00:54,962
It's empowering and it does get easier.

628
01:00:54,962 --> 01:01:09,642
I think that what happens, I was trying to go back to five and a half, when I was cleaning
sober five and a half years and there was a lot more of checking in with, and now it's

629
01:01:09,642 --> 01:01:11,342
more automatic.

630
01:01:11,342 --> 01:01:18,866
So the behaviors, the new behaviors have become more of the norm, but you have to be
careful.

631
01:01:18,866 --> 01:01:28,706
Because it is, you know, the in AA, they say, HALT: Hungry, Angry, Lonely, Tired, are four
triggers for anybody that has addiction.

632
01:01:28,706 --> 01:01:38,656
And if you have any of those things going on in your life, then what's gonna happen is the
addictive behavior is gonna wanna respond instead of the new behavior.

633
01:01:38,656 --> 01:01:43,086
And so you just have to be, that's when you have to do the check and balance.

634
01:01:43,266 --> 01:01:45,686
You know, have I got enough sleep?

635
01:01:45,686 --> 01:01:48,082
Have I eaten healthy food?

636
01:01:48,082 --> 01:01:52,082
Am I isolating from people?

637
01:01:52,242 --> 01:01:53,982
You know, am I getting enough sleep?

638
01:01:53,982 --> 01:02:07,272
All of that really is important to everybody, but as addictive personalities, we tend to
do everything full out.

639
01:02:07,272 --> 01:02:10,712
And so we don't eat when we're hungry because we don't know we're hungry.

640
01:02:10,712 --> 01:02:17,714
And then when we eat, it's usually sugar because that's the replacement for the alcohol,
right?

641
01:02:17,714 --> 01:02:28,294
And so we isolate and and when we isolate then we feel lonely and when we feel lonely then
we think there's something wrong with us.

642
01:02:28,294 --> 01:02:29,354
Nothing wrong with us.

643
01:02:29,354 --> 01:02:30,214
What's wrong with us?

644
01:02:30,214 --> 01:02:35,034
We haven't opened up the door and said to somebody hey come on in I need to talk to
somebody.

645
01:02:35,034 --> 01:03:26,105
So yeah it does get easier it just never goes away.

646
01:03:26,206 --> 01:03:27,006
you know?

647
01:03:27,006 --> 01:04:00,887
And so I think that there is a cure for us and it's learning how to love ourselves.

648
01:04:00,887 --> 01:04:02,447
Fabulous.

649
01:04:02,607 --> 01:04:03,367
Right.

650
01:04:03,367 --> 01:04:08,207
Gayle, where can people find out a little bit more about you?

651
01:04:08,562 --> 01:04:13,512
So there is a website for, I have an online center.

652
01:04:13,512 --> 01:04:15,302
I don't have a physical building.

653
01:04:15,302 --> 01:04:20,082
I teach classes online and I do coaching via Zoom.

654
01:04:20,082 --> 01:04:24,441
So it's practical everyday wisdom.

655
01:04:25,222 --> 01:04:28,822
CSL .org is the website.

656
01:04:29,442 --> 01:04:33,860
We also have a Facebook page called Practical Everyday Wisdom.

657
01:04:34,482 --> 01:04:40,842
I released all other social media.

658
01:04:40,842 --> 01:04:42,272
I just stuck with Facebook.

659
01:04:42,272 --> 01:04:44,162
I know it's old school.

660
01:04:44,162 --> 01:04:47,422
I'm an older person, so it works well for me.

661
01:04:47,422 --> 01:04:51,252
It just got too many things to manage.

662
01:04:51,252 --> 01:04:55,622
I was just like, kind of just step back a little bit.

663
01:04:55,802 --> 01:05:01,682
And if they just want to reach out, there's always revgayle @ gmail .com.

664
01:05:01,682 --> 01:05:03,818
And they can email me and...

665
01:05:03,826 --> 01:05:08,936
We can, you know, I always do, I do do coaching.

666
01:05:08,936 --> 01:05:12,686
However, if you just need to talk to somebody, I also do that.

667
01:05:12,686 --> 01:05:14,446
And that's just a gift.

668
01:05:14,446 --> 01:05:22,466
I also do RevGayle wake up calls, which is an affirmation.

669
01:05:22,466 --> 01:05:25,706
It's a quote by somebody, not me, but a quote.

670
01:05:25,706 --> 01:05:29,714
And then I write an affirmation to that quote and I send that out.

671
01:05:29,714 --> 01:05:34,214
text message to anybody that's interested and that is also a free service.

672
01:05:34,214 --> 01:05:43,834
So if you're interested in that, they could email me and or text me and I will add them to
the list.

673
01:05:44,631 --> 01:05:46,091
Wonderful, thank you very much.

674
01:05:46,091 --> 01:05:47,491
That's super.

675
01:05:47,571 --> 01:05:49,811
Right, and then the last question.

676
01:05:49,811 --> 01:05:55,986
What is the gift that you got from your awakening?

677
01:05:55,986 --> 01:06:04,366
I know you asked me this before and I gave some brilliant answer, but the answer that
comes to me right now is myself.

678
01:06:05,026 --> 01:06:15,766
I really, really found the essence of who I am and I'm comfortable with that for the first
time in my life.

679
01:06:15,766 --> 01:06:18,366
I like myself most of the time.

680
01:06:18,366 --> 01:06:20,066
I'm not perfect.

681
01:06:20,066 --> 01:06:23,886
I don't do everything right and I'm okay with that now.

682
01:06:23,886 --> 01:06:26,162
We're all going to make mistakes.

683
01:06:26,482 --> 01:06:36,682
And so that is, you know, me being clean and sober was the biggest gift I could give to
myself.

684
01:06:36,682 --> 01:06:51,127
And the biggest gift I could give to the planet or humanity is the fact that I'm awake and
aware and willing to share my gifts with others.

685
01:06:51,127 --> 01:06:52,667
That is lovely.

686
01:06:52,667 --> 01:06:56,827
That's exactly what you told me last time, but a little bit more concise.

687
01:06:57,107 --> 01:06:57,827
Thank you.

688
01:06:57,827 --> 01:07:03,127
Thank you ever so much for your time, sharing your story, sharing that wisdom.

689
01:07:03,167 --> 01:07:09,967
And I know that there have been some people who've been listening to this and watching
this and going, I really need to hear that today.

690
01:07:09,967 --> 01:07:12,607
I'm going to start liking myself a bit more.

691
01:07:12,607 --> 01:07:14,034
So thank you ever so much.

692
01:07:14,034 --> 01:07:14,824
Thank you.

693
01:07:14,824 --> 01:07:16,174
It's been a pleasure.

694
01:07:16,174 --> 01:07:18,009
Always good to spend time with you.

695
01:07:19,516 --> 01:07:23,876
Thank you for listening to this episode of The Crucible: Conversations for the Curious.

696
01:07:23,876 --> 01:07:32,516
If these powerful stories of transformation resonated with you, be sure to like, subscribe
and share this show with anyone who you think could do with a dose of inspiration for

697
01:07:32,516 --> 01:07:33,456
their own journey.

698
01:07:33,456 --> 01:07:40,036
I would really appreciate it if you could make any comments on your favourite podcast
platform as well, that helps me reach more people.

699
01:07:40,036 --> 01:07:43,496
All the important links and information are in the show notes below.

700
01:07:43,496 --> 01:07:46,580
Thank you very much for listening and catch up with you soon.