Meg (00:15) Welcome to the Creative Thread Podcast. I'm your host, Meg Loeks and I am so excited to talk to a fellow creative today who is an amazing astrophotographer. His name is Jack Fusco, and I've known him for a really long time. He's also a fellow Sigma ambassador, and his work is really incredible. Of course, capturing the night sky, but one of the things that I really love about him is that. He also has a wonderful storytelling aspect to his work. He'll often include things in the foreground. One of the photos that lives rent-free in my head of yours, Jack, is the sunflower one. So you've got like these amazing sunflowers in the foreground and then the night sky behind those sunflowers. So you've got these multiple layers. And so it's just a different viewpoint that. you don't always see with astrophotography. So I first of course want to just like welcome you. Thank you for being here. And yeah, tell us a little bit more about your work. Jack Fusco (01:21) Awesome. Well, thank you so much. I'm I'm so honored to be here. I I love your work. And I feel like even though our work is so different, I find so much inspiration just from following your work. And I've also really loved the podcast. So and thank you for all the kind words too. yeah, so Meg (01:36) of course. Jack Fusco (01:37) so I live in New Jersey and I grew up in New Jersey. and I think that shaped a lot of Of how I shoot the night sky. because New Jersey doesn't have the darkest skies. So for me, it's so much trying to tell the story of just being there and like sharing that moment or trying the best way to capture that moment of taking that photo and what it felt like being there. So trying to include something that isn't always like a landmark, but something that just feels like it you could be there, or it could be a spot that you know. So that's often what I'm trying to think about or look for when I'm trying to find a composition just something that can help someone imagine standing under the stars and hopefully find their way into the stars. Meg (02:20) Yeah, that makes me curious, in regard to do you normally shoot around where you live or do you have to go, you know, somewhere else to find like a good dark sky? Jack Fusco (02:34) I don't shoot in New Jersey a lot. So thankfully I guess luckily I I travel quite a bit. I do like shooting when I'm home and when I can because I feel like it's I joke and call them gateway stargazing locations. and I I think that's also what helped like early on in my like before it was career and kind of early on in my career was that I was taking photos of places that people didn't think they could really see the stars. And I was just like I was going to places that I grew up going to. So New Jersey doesn't have a lot of dark skies. the closest actual dark sky to me is probably a five or six hour drive. So Meg (03:07) Okay. Jack Fusco (03:08) it yeah, so it's quite a bit of a hike, but yeah, so a little bit of different of a view when I'm home. Meg (03:14) Yeah, very different from where I live because I think we have true dark skies here in in most places. I know I'm where in my yard I do. Um, Jack Fusco (03:23) Yeah. Meg (03:24) which is great. and we have the northern lights here. So it can make it of course easier to see those too as well. I'm curious, have you s did you grow up in New Jersey then? Is that that where you're from? Okay. Okay. And Jack Fusco (03:37) Yeah. Yeah. Meg (03:40) And in regard to your creative background, what were you doing b before photography became such a big part of your life or have you always been been doing photography? Jack Fusco (03:51) No, so I I feel like I always had I was always kind of on the creative side. I grew up, I would draw a lot. and then eventually I got into music and I played in bands growing up and then I was working like an IT job and playing in a bunch Meg (04:07) Mm. Jack Fusco (04:07) of like I think like three or four different like punk bands. and you listened to punk music, like a big punk band isn't really like a big band outside of punk in most cases. And I had an opportunity to join a band. It was the the singer and the guitar player from the band I grew up loving and fill in for their new band. So I said yes right away, I could fill in, you know, take time off of work to go on the this tour down the East Coast. And then shortly after that, they asked if I could come up to Europe with them to fill in, like a couple of days after we got back from the East Coast. And I asked my job. And he said no, that I couldn't get the time off. So I quit. And I bought a camera. And that was the first time that I actually owned a camera. That was kind of the start of it. And I toured for three and a half, four years, and I would just finish playing shows and just walk around and take photos. And that was kind of like the start of like kind of taking photos. Like I didn't really know what I was doing at the time. it was just kind of like snapshots with like a slightly nicer camera. And it was like when I stopped touring and still had that need create something. So I was living in Jersey and I didn't start taking photos of the stars right away. I would just wake up early and go take photos at sunrise because I lived not too far from the beach. And I kind of felt at some point someone's like, you should take photos at sunset too, like facing out over the ocean. like a Meg (05:26) Mm. Jack Fusco (05:26) real soft kind of like twilight light. And it was on one of those outings where I kind of like accidentally caught some stars in my photo and I was like, that's really exciting. Meg (05:34) Really. Jack Fusco (05:35) Like that's like it's different and I kept going back out and I would stay out later and later and that just kind of like fell into it that way. Meg (05:45) Okay, so that was really the start of it for you with with forgive me, I I always call it astrophotography. Jack Fusco (05:50) Yeah. Meg (05:51) Is that the correct that's the correct term? Jack Fusco (05:54) Yeah, it's I think it's changed over over the course of the genre evolving too. historically astrophotography would define more deep space photography, the nebula photos. But and I think early Meg (06:04) Okay. Okay. Jack Fusco (06:06) on it would be like prefix with like landscape astrophotography. but now it just kind of all falls under astrophotography. Meg (06:13) Okay, that's good to know. So was there a particular point, within your photography career where, you were of course like experimenting with this, photographing the night sky, but there was was there a point where you were like, this is what I wanna do? This is what I wanna pursue? Jack Fusco (06:29) It happened pretty naturally. I Meg (06:31) Mm. Jack Fusco (06:32) after touring, I I went back to working IT at a certain point and but I took that photo of the stars and I was kind of hooked right away. So I just kept going out and taking photos. So I would, you know, work all day and then go find a different spot to take photos of the stars. Like I I also didn't really know anything about the stars at that point in time. Meg (06:52) Mm. Jack Fusco (06:52) So I would just go out and take photos, regardless of, you know. was in the sky or how bright the moon was. And yeah, I I started taking stills and then eventually I about a year into it, I started shooting time lapse. And that Meg (07:07) Okay. Jack Fusco (07:08) that was kind of like the start of like a turning point because I I worked on like my first time lapse project for about like 11 months, which didn't need like really 11 months of shooting because I was you know doing you know the work full time and then go experiment and come back out and something wouldn't work and go out a couple days later and do it and just took 11 months to shoot like four minutes worth of time lapse. And that when I finally like released that it was like all night skies in New Jersey. And I think it was pretty early in like the astrophotography like kind of genre becoming popular before it really became popularized. so I think that paired with the fact that it was New Jersey, someplace that someone or most people don't associate with the stars. was why it kind of like did well when I released it. I had released that and then it got picked up by National Geographic and a lot of Jersey outlets. shortly after that places started reaching out to hire me to do stuff. And for a long time it was just take time off of work. And it was just like, this is really cool that I get to do this. Now I get to travel somewhere and do it. And then I would come back to working IT. And so yeah, so it wasn't I I think even at that point I I wasn't like, how do I make this a job? It was just that I was excited that I got to do more of it. And it kind of kept Meg (08:20) Mm-hmm. Doing something you love. Jack Fusco (08:23) yeah, and just kind of kept going. And I just go, you know, take more photos of the stars and other places would reach out. And I I often like attribute that to the fact that I've been doing this for twelve or thirteen years now and I still get like super geeked out going out under the stars each time because I'm fortunate enough to only do astrophotography. And I think if I thought early on, how do I make photography a career, I probably would have explored other genres of photography that I may not have enjoyed as much, but may have been easier avenues Meg (08:51) Mm. Jack Fusco (08:51) of making money early on. Meg (08:54) Yeah. Yeah, that makes sense. That's I how fortunate that we're able to do something that we love as a career too, because it's not lost on me that that's not the case for a lot of people. So I mean I don't get me wrong, with that said, there's been a lot of work involved. It's not like always easy, right? It's uh but I Jack Fusco (09:11) Yes, yeah. Yeah, I I agree. Meg (09:15) yeah, I when you're running your own business, it's so it's so much work. And it I it's really hard, I think, sometimes too to like Separate when you're working from home, separate personal life from your work. Like make sure that you designate, at least for me, designate time. This is work hours. This is family time. So yeah. Jack Fusco (09:33) Yeah, it it is. I I think okay, I think you said it perfectly. It's very, very fortunate. I'm thankful every day. but it is like that. You're always like it's even if you're turning the turn off, it's always in the back of your head, right, what what is Meg (09:46) Mm-hmm. Jack Fusco (09:47) next? And what what is on my plate and what do I have to do when I do have that window of time. Meg (09:51) Yeah. Is there a particular night or photograph that has become a core memory for you? And may you may have already answered this, but I'm I am just curious if there's like a specific shot for you that was just like, this is it. Jack Fusco (10:08) That's so there's probably a couple that I I'll reference their There is one that I feel like very early on. So I drove up to Acadia National Park in Maine, which is like a 12-hour drive from where I was. I had a friend that was in the area. And that was like that night, and like with this there's one photo in particular where I was at this cove and we were looking at the Milky Way. So it's the first time I was like really seeing the Milky Way with my like my own eyes. And I remember just being blown away by that and the photos and being really excited and then looking out on the water and kind of having like this moment of not like pure like it was like a little bit of like confusion that like quickly changed to just awe because I was looking at like the reflection of the Milky Way on the water Meg (10:55) Hmm. Jack Fusco (10:55) and so like I had like this was like checking it on the back of the camera and seeing if I was actually seeing it and it was like showing up brighter in the camera in that moment it was like this is incredible and I can't wait to share this because it it is such a special experience. that I want other people to to have it also Meg (11:11) Yeah. Yeah, I have dabbled a little bit in in astrophotography. over the years, I've I feel like I've dabbled in all the genres. I've done some macro landscape. And there was a period of time for a good year, a couple years, where I did more astrophotography, but I am no expert. And um Jack Fusco (11:32) I feel like I've seen some of your Aurora photos. I don't know if I've seen a lot of uh the other ones. So I'll Meg (11:35) Yeah, yeah. Jack Fusco (11:36) have to look. Meg (11:37) Yeah. I I I've photographed the Milky Way a few times and but Jack Fusco (11:41) Yes. Meg (11:42) a core memory for me was I think it was last year and it was when the lights were out, the northern lights were out. But it was thankfully not very late. I am not a night owl. So I like to get up at four a.m. I like to get up really early. So if the lights are gonna be showing around that time, great. But they're usually not. And so this happened to be like ten o'clock at night. They had started and I just grabbed my things and went out to the beach. We live along Lake Superior. So I went out to the beach by myself at around eleven o'clock at night. And it was warm that evening. for us, it was like winter had just kind of like is a Just about done basically, but it was 50, 55 degrees, which is really, really warm. And there was, Jack Fusco (12:24) Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Meg (12:25) it was in the middle of nowhere. Dark sky along Lake Superior. There was a ton of people on the beach just like walking, but everybody's kind of talking quietly. And I was just out there with my camera photographing the lights. And you could hear people having different conversations and stuff, all kind of out watching because it was a really nice night. to do so and it was just that was a core memory for me because it was like man this is so awesome this is so therapeutic and peaceful and calming to just be out here by myself and just you know photographing the lights Jack Fusco (12:53) Yeah. That's what I I feel Meg (12:53) Yeah. Jack Fusco (12:54) like so often people will make that comment of you must be so patient. And like it's it couldn't be further from having patience. It is just so peaceful. And it really is very therapeutic. It's quiet and there's not a lot of distractions and just look up this endless sea of stars. And it is except it's common. I think it it Meg (13:14) Mm-hmm. Jack Fusco (13:14) is, you know, has always been that way for. For me. And again, I think that's just something that hopefully hopefully other people get to experience and was it and I think also because I grew up not having that experience. is maybe why that like I have like a a drive to to try and share it and have other people find it too, because it isn't something that like it's something I love, but it's not something that I've always like known. Meg (13:36) Hmm. Yeah. Yeah, that's that's so true. You know, one thing that fascinates me about astrophotography is just how much happens before you press the shutter, right? So you obviously have to do some planning. So how how much planning is typically involved with like if you were to go out and do a shoot? Cause you you did say to me that, you know, you travel a lot, so you're Probably not only is gear obviously important, but also you're probably looking at the weather, all of that. Jack Fusco (14:09) Yeah, there there is there's quite a bit of planning. It's especially for traveling, you're trying to look at at what's in the night sky, but also looking at Meg (14:17) Mm. Jack Fusco (14:18) historical weather data. So you're trying to not go somewhere that can just have poor conditions because obviously that's like Meg (14:23) Mm. Jack Fusco (14:24) astrophotography is you're hopefully gonna have clear skies and it's it's hard to make do otherwise, you can. Still takes some photos, but for the best results, you want those perfectly clear skies, and they also have to dark And that can be like light pollution. But you're also planning around the moon phase. there's obviously it's the new moon, but there's a lot of times where the moon can rise or set later in the night, and you can plan around those dates. And also just what's in the night sky, like what's going to be visible, like when you're going to be there and what time. So it is it's kind of like finding a location and then. working backwards with all that information and trying to figure out what the dates are and what the range of time then you can visit a certain spot. and that is I guess not considering you know the potential like if you have like a really specific composition in mind, then when if it's something in the night sky needs to align over that, then you're working with an even like narrower window. Meg (15:16) Hmm. Do you have a particular like composition in mind before you go to the location? you you obviously know the the landscape, at least somewhat before you're arriving there. Do you have a comp composition in mind or is it sometimes just like, you know, you go there and then and then figure that out? Jack Fusco (15:37) So it's a little of both sometimes. There's, Meg (15:39) Okay. Jack Fusco (15:40) you sometimes I'll have an idea for a composition of something that I I certain elements that I want to find. other times it's like it's very specific. I try to avoid going to really popular locations and you know, like taking like the same photo where that like has has been taken a lot. I know it's it's beautiful and they will always, Meg (15:56) Mm-hmm. Jack Fusco (15:59) you know, be popular because people relate to that. but it's not something that I've ever really enjoyed doing. Um, Meg (16:04) Mm-hmm. Jack Fusco (16:05) so depending on the spot, like if I've never been there, like I try to avoid looking at like a lot of other photos like from there, but I'll spend looking time looking at like Google Maps and like satellite views and trying to find stuff or looking at like hiking videos to just try and catch glimpses of certain areas. so yeah, it's it's a mix. And there's times that I have an idea for a photo, but I don't know where it's going to happen. but just like certain elements that I want to to work out. but I I like being there and trying to find something that feels right. Meg (16:37) Yeah. Have have you ever had anything go wrong? when you're out at a shoot? Let let's say maybe all hell breaks loose and weather turns on you or something of the sort. I'm sure you've had some stuff happen. Jack Fusco (16:53) Yeah, thankfully, nothing like overly dangerous. Meg (16:56) Mm. Jack Fusco (16:57) we've had a lot of like colder than expected conditions. There was a project that was Meg (17:01) Mm. Jack Fusco (17:02) on with a good friend of mine we were up in northern Alberta and Canada. And before I flew in, it was supposed to be negative 20. And like I landed and that it was in the negative 40s for the upcoming days. Meg (17:14) Mm-hmm. Jack Fusco (17:15) And we we were in Wood Buffalo National Park, which is the size of Switzerland. And it Meg (17:22) Yeah. Jack Fusco (17:23) was January. and we were we're do it was a tourism project. So we were like very close contact with the Parks Canada because they were, you know, concerned about our safety being the only ones in the park and like there's no service. So we had satellite phones and that additional, you know, like another negative twenty five degrees. drop from where it was supposed to be made a huge difference. And it was in the moment it was terrible. It was so cold. Like you could just like, you know, we were dressed properly, but there was, you know, only so much you can do just like feel like the cold coming through the bottom of your boots. And you know can only be outside for so long, but we had kind of like unex unexpected display of the Northern lights and you forget about it for a little bit. But then you know it's Meg (18:03) Mm. Jack Fusco (18:04) a you quickly remember it's like, this is getting a little painful and go have to go back and try to warm up a little bit and then move to the next spot. But yeah, thankfully nothing too too dangerous. But I guess that's Meg (18:16) We've we have this saying we have the saying here that there's no such thing as like bad weather, cold weather. It's just incorrect clothing, right? You layers is important. Jack Fusco (18:25) Yeah. Yeah. Meg (18:27) And yeah, we we every year we have it get that cold here. Um Jack Fusco (18:31) Yeah. Meg (18:31) sometimes for like a week at a time, it's like negative thirty-five, negative forty. And our schools, that's when they'll close. We won't close if we get like a foot of snow overnight. That's no Jack Fusco (18:39) Right. Meg (18:42) big deal, but we will close for those temps because at that point it gets it's so cold that kids can't be at the bus stop because of frostbite, you know. Jack Fusco (18:51) Yeah, it gets for it's not even like an extended amount of time. It's like that can be dangerous. It's okay, it's like more than fifteen minutes and it starts to become a little bit dangerous. Yeah. Meg (19:02) So no no crazy encounters with animals or anything like that. Jack Fusco (19:06) we've had so on that same project we heard we split up to go down different trails and we heard like wolves between us like howling. Meg (19:13) Mm. Jack Fusco (19:14) was a little you know unsettling at the moment. Yeah. Um Meg (19:15) Eerie. Yeah. Jack Fusco (19:19) and then like in the desert, there like rattlesnakes and um Meg (19:23) Mm. Jack Fusco (19:25) scorpions, like so not no like thank again, thankfully no Meg (19:28) Lot of things that could kill you. Jack Fusco (19:30) yeah. Um and were like, you know, not enjoyable and the kind of like a little Meg (19:34) Mm mm. Jack Fusco (19:34) thank thankfully no super close encounters. And then the the scorpion one was a little so I had I had Conan with me at the time and we were set up taking photos of it was Comet Neawise, which was maybe like four or five years ago at this point. And it was like a spot I'd been to like at least a dozen times and I'd never seen a single scorpion there ever. And we set up on a spot that I had this idea for the photo. And he was was sitting next to my tripod and I saw a scorpion in front of my tripod. I was like, that's strange. And so I just kind of pulled him back a little bit. And then I saw another one and another one. I was like, all right, we've this is we should get going. Because the ones I I can't remember the name of them, but they are like they're very poisonous. and Meg (20:19) Mm. Yeah, I'd be out of there. Jack Fusco (20:22) Yeah. Well and we we w we it was about a mile back to down the trail and Meg (20:26) of course. Jack Fusco (20:28) it was like every two or three feet there were scorpions like crossing the the trail. It was crazy. And like I I Meg (20:35) That's bizarre. Jack Fusco (20:36) was more concerned about you know about him than I was for myself. Like if I was there alone, I probably, you know, just would have you know not sat down, kept my bag off the ground. But like yeah, that was that was it, you know. said I I'd Meg (20:48) Mm-hmm. Jack Fusco (20:49) been there so many times I've not single seen a single one and that that was just crazy. So Meg (20:53) Yeah. That is wild. So I I am not a technical person, but I do want to just kind of briefly talk about the technical side of of things. So we'll keep this brief because I I also know how important the technical side is, especially for for what you you do. So my my question to you is how important is certain things in regard to to what you do, like Focusing, your your settings in general. what are some some really big technical things that you think are, you know, for somebody who's beginning that they need to understand? Jack Fusco (21:24) Yeah. this is so I that there's like that saying like it's not the gear that you own. like the best camera you have with you or best camera you is the one you have with you. Unfortunately for astro photography, that is not entirely true. it is there is still like a level of dependency on gear in terms of how high quality photos can capture. it's gotten a lot better. Like the barrier to entry for Astro has gotten a lot lower in the past like five or six years. But a camera that performs in really low light and the fast aperture lenses, like even like you know, like a 2.8 lens is a really fast aperture, but at night, like a 1.4, like is it just lets so much more light in both the foreground and the sky, and just that just results in so much more detail. so that you know, gear in that aspect is really important. But then, you know, everything is is manual. So you're focusing and you know. Most of the time that means we're using the Globe view on the back of your camera to just magnify into the stars and just slowly adjusting your focus rate, which is more difficult on some older cameras. And you know, our settings are based off of the focal length you're using in your your camera sensor. And then there's like a formula to factor in the rotation of the earth because you're limited on how long you can expose for while keeping the stars like looking like stars and not little. Dashes because if you expose for too long as the earth rotates, um it's and Meg (22:45) Mm, yes. Jack Fusco (22:46) your shutters still open, like you have like the little dashes instead of stars that look stars. Yeah. Meg (22:49) This I knew. I I knew this. Yep. is there a favorite lens that you have? Again, I know we're Sigma ambassadors, right? So Jack Fusco (22:56) Well yeah. Meg (22:57) but I I'm curious. Jack Fusco (22:59) so the the 14 1.4 is probably that sigma lens like it's it's always in my bag. but I especially over the last couple of years, I've enjoyed shooting the longer focal lengths more and more. and depending on like what my subject is. So I'd say if I had to pick a second one, maybe the 35 1.4, the sigma 35. I haven't I haven't gotten to use the the mark two yet, but the the mark one. That's been like that's that's the other one that is flipped, I'd say eighty percent of the time. Meg (23:30) Do you do you have issues with satellites and stuff now? Because there's there's obviously a lot more satellites now than there was five years ago. So do you have problem Jack Fusco (23:38) Yeah. Meg (23:39) with that? Jack Fusco (23:40) Yeah, it's it has it's become definitely like a a it more of an issue for shooting time lapse, especially because like for Meg (23:49) Mm. Jack Fusco (23:50) if you're taking a single photo, you can you can remove them a little bit more easily. But Meg (23:54) Yeah. Jack Fusco (23:55) I shot some time lapse recently when I was back in Acadia a couple months ago and I set up a camera and then left it and then came back and when I looked at the time lapse footage, the amount of satellites, it's unreal. Like it is like so far, it made it made me like rethink of like how bad it was. Because like even before that, I was like, this is a problem. And then after that, I was like, this is it's crazy. And like it's a tough it's tough because there are a lot of satellites that collect helpful data. Um Meg (24:21) Yeah. Jack Fusco (24:22) but there it's like one of those things where it's there isn't a lot of regulation around it. And they they do have limited lifespan. So eventually they'll fall out of the sky and mostly burn up on the way in. and there's like that trade-off of, you know, it it is taking away a lot of the night sky or like the you know the untouched beauty of the night sky. but then like if they're doing good, like where where do you find that the correct balance of like what is it providing versus what is it taking away and then there's also another company that is trying to provide daylight at at night now with like satellites are launching, which feels awful. Yeah. Meg (24:58) I heard about this. What is this for f is this for farmers or something or? Jack Fusco (25:03) That's that is one of their one of their claims. Um yeah. Meg (25:06) Okay. Yeah. Got it. Yeah. Yeah, I I I Jack Fusco (25:11) Yeah, I it's Meg (25:12) feel like I saw something about this six months, six months ago. And I was like, this is crazy. This is wild. Um Jack Fusco (25:20) Yeah. Meg (25:21) it it does make me deeply appreciate where we live. Now there's sacrifices that that we have to make of because of where we live at the same time. It's not very easy. Like we don't have access to a lot of things, right? And if we were to order if I was an order from Amazon Prime, for example, it would take us. full week, if not longer, to get here. It doesn't happen quick. But, you know, with that said, then we just we don't have to deal with that sort of thing. But but I if I were to go and photograph the night sky, I mean would have to deal with like satellites, of course, and and the I don't know, you know, it's I consider it somewhat kind of like pollution in the n the night sky, right? So Jack Fusco (26:01) Yeah. Yeah. Meg (26:02) that's yeah, that's hard. That's really hard. Jack Fusco (26:04) Yeah, I think it's you know, like it's like if if the I guess like the potential benefit if it were actually like the you know, if it was really providing, you know, access to the internet to people that don't have it in certain locations. but you know, I I think the the ones that are just pure for profit as opposed to for good, heavily outweighed on anybody that going to benefit a very small group as opposed to the ones that are going to benefit a large group. I think that's, you know, why it's not regulated part. Meg (26:38) Yeah. Yeah, it's it is really important to talk about. I I was curious about that. So I'm glad thank you for answering that. I I Jack Fusco (26:47) Yeah, it's a great Meg (26:48) imagine it's very challenging. so let's talk a little bit about like the creative side of what you do because that that is my favorite part. when you Jack Fusco (26:59) Yeah. Meg (27:00) when you go to a location. you're capturing a lot of different shots. And, I I'm curious, you're maybe capturing some of just the night sky, but then you're also maybe capturing some that include some of the landscape as well. And you have like a foreground, middle ground, a background. I would love to hear more about your process in regard to like creativity. You shared a little bit about, you know, how you try not to look at like what other photographers are doing in at a specific location. But what are some like key things for you? before you go to a location in regard to creativity. Jack Fusco (27:35) yeah, so I guess before and while I'm there, I guess for better or worse, I want to capture whatever I am shooting I think early on I was I had like this idea or like I was always worried that I would take a photo and either remove something or add something to it and that National Geographic would ask for it. And because it was like something was removed, I like it would miss out on this opportunity. Um, Meg (27:59) Okay. Mm. Jack Fusco (28:01) so I think that vers and the fact that I want to capture something that represents that moment of being there. like all of my images, it's you know, the technique has expanded, but I don't composite anything that wasn't taken kind of like sequentially I don't switch lenses or focal lengths. so it might be a longer exposure for the foreground to capture detail that in a really dark area. but then like the sky is captured directly before or after. so it's I guess it's a lot of thinking about techniques that will allow me to do that and just kind of some something that like represents you know that moment and place as accurately as possible. Meg (28:36) Yeah, which is is is definitely the opposite of the way I work, where I'm doing Jack Fusco (28:38) Mm-hmm. Meg (28:40) so much composite work. But, you Jack Fusco (28:41) Yeah. Meg (28:42) know, there's something to be said about just doing the work in general, right? with your camera, with your hands, all that kind of stuff. Obviously, not AI. so, you know, I think that's like the beautiful part of the process and the reason why I'm a photographer is. is that entire process of of creating whatever it may look like. and I love that you I I didn't know that about you about not changing like lenses or s or anything. So thank you for sharing that. I think that's really cool. So yeah. Jack Fusco (29:13) yeah. And I I think something I, I admire about your work is exactly what I don't do is how curated and like how thoughtful like every element is. And like how you're able to like tell a story from like such a small moment. And I I think that's something that I've always I need to spend more time thinking about. And like if you're it's just like these these moments that you might that most people probably wouldn't think twice about. become like this incredible image. And I I also I think about it a lot with like songwriters too. And how if you interpret lyrics to like a certain song and it might be this one song where I never knew what was about and then I heard the singer talking about it. And it was just about like a walk that the band went on after like when they're at the studio and they would cut through a cemetery. And to me, like I would never think of making something like fix that little moment of of something happening into a full song. Or and I Meg (30:05) Mm-hmm. Jack Fusco (30:05) equate that to photography too, just that that ordinary moment of it's you know, like tying shoes or you know, just capturing everyday life type moment that is Meg (30:15) Mm-hmm. Jack Fusco (30:15) really something that is really special and deserves like to slow down and capture it. I just so often I I don't think that way or I have to try and like force myself actively. Meg (30:26) Mm. Jack Fusco (30:26) which I think I'm sure a lot of art is like training yourself to think a certain way, I think. Um, Meg (30:30) Mm-hmm. Jack Fusco (30:31) but I I have a admiration for that because it is outside of my typical approach. Meg (30:37) Yeah, I think it's really good to know, of course, your your strengths and your weaknesses too. And so, one of mine for sure is that, I when I'm shooting, I often include a a lot of environment and I don't think to get in close. And so I have to, I have to literally tell my brain, like, okay, I've captured this shot already. I don't need to do a million of this version. unglue my feet, get in closer. And then often what ends up happening when I do that, that image ends up ends up being my favorite, right? It's And I'm like, why didn't I do this sooner? But it's all part of the process. So it is something I have to constantly tell myself, get in closer and see what this is gonna look like. And yeah, you know. So Jack Fusco (31:12) Right. Yeah. I I've definitely had those cases where I plan out a shot months in advance for something to line up and then right before I'm about to leave, I'm like, that kinda looks pretty cool. And that's the photo of that last one that you just kinda saw as the one that's like, it's way better than what I planned out. I think that's yeah. Meg (31:31) Yep. That's so important. So we we talked a little bit about mishaps happening. So has failure has failure become part of the process for you? I I'm sure you've you've had your fair share of issues and a lot of it outside of your control. Is it it's gotta be somewhat part of the the process and maybe also help with growth as well. Jack Fusco (31:54) Yeah, it absolutely is. I I think it's and I'm not sure wh which shapes which, but my like weird desire to have to capture everything in that exact moment, I think it's part of the reason why, you know, there's been photos that have taken like two or three years before everything lines up in a certain spot. and you know, there's you know a handful that I can think of off the top of my head that took, you know, maybe four years before it finally worked out. Because because I travel and I'm not in a location that I can go back to, which I realize is it's also a luxury to be able to return to a place that is not easy to get to. but there there was like a when we were living in San Diego for a while and I had these this idea of shooting the Milky Way from inside of a sea cave. Like I didn't know where exactly that sea cave existed, if it was going be possible. So I always like I would look at Google Maps and try to find something that looked like a cave. And look at pictures and try to find something. And then I would drive there and see if everything would line up. And then I finally found these sea caves just north of Los Angeles in Malibu. And like they were pretty popular, like beaches, but I don't think anyone had shot the night sky from before. And the the first one, it took me a handful of times of going back and you know, having the tide work out in the right spot and the Milky Way be in the right position and not have coastal fog. And so that there were these. two different beaches that had these caves that I really wanted to get. And it took a while to get the first one. And I did. Super exciting. and ended up getting a bit of press. And so those spots became like a little bit popular. And it Meg (33:27) Mm. Jack Fusco (33:28) took about like two years before I was able to get that other the other photo. it's not always easy to find time to shoot personal work. and or like you know it might have clear conditions when I'm in different state. But in in that time of you know me trying to go back and forth and making like five hour drives to the spot and just having something not quite work out, I saw someone post a photo from there like with the the shot that I was hoping to get. And then I'm reading the caption and seeing that they also it's like I was here hoping to get the shot. It was cloudy and I dropped in a sky from somewhere else. And like it Meg (34:02) Oh Jack Fusco (34:02) felt like in the moment it felt like a gut punch. But like Meg (34:06) Wow. Yeah. Jack Fusco (34:08) And it took me a while to to kind of come to terms with like with not having it bother me much. Because I I, you know, I realized that like, you know, I enjoy like that failure of, you know, going back and trying to have everything, you know, work out and hopefully finally getting that, you know, everything to line up. And it was a couple months later where I finally did. And it not only did I get the Milky Way like from outside of the sea cave There's also a biluminescence directly under like where the Milky Way showed up. So like I took like one photo. Meg (34:38) That's amazing. Jack Fusco (34:40) It was like it's so funny. Like looking back on it, like I took this photo and the wave crashed and I looked at the back of my camera and it was like blue right under the Milky Way. And I was like, that's it. That's the shot. And like I left. And I I should have stayed there, like and continued to shoot. But I was like, I was so excited and you know, after all this time, I realized that, you know. the the satisfaction I get from going back over and over and over to a spot and finally having it work out is, you know, it's very likely that that's other person probably gets that same type of feeling from, you know, having it all come together in post processing and like there isn't like a right or wrong Meg (35:14) Mm-hmm. Jack Fusco (35:15) in general, just like a, you know, what's your personal approaches. And you know, I I'll still like advocate for kind of being transparent about it. especially because there there's so many variables of the night sky and you know. Hoping people will go experience it, but so not presenting something that isn't possible that feel like isn't also important to me. And I think that's part of where at this point in that like that would bother me a little bit still. If someone's like that, let's go, that's that isn't possible from that spot would kind of bum me out. Uh but yeah. Yeah. Meg (35:43) Yeah. Well, you're an educator, right? So that's that's yeah, that is very important. I mean it should be whether you're an educator or not, being honest and transparent in your work I think is important, but especially important being an educator. And this just Jack Fusco (35:55) Yeah. Meg (35:57) what you do requires so much patience, you know, for that one shot. And but I I feel like, you know And I can relate to this in a slightly different way, but I've had those moments happen where you get that shot and it makes it all worth it. You know, all the failures, the time that it took to actually get that shot, which might have been years in the making. and it's it is so funny you mentioned like that one shot because I tend to shoot that way. I know when I've got the shot. And I know, like, let's let's just be done, you know? And And sometimes working with kids and photographing kids, all you get is one shot. And then it's Jack Fusco (36:36) Yeah. Meg (36:37) done. And it's they just and you have to be so ready with your camera and you have to have your settings locked in and everything because they're not gonna give you much time, right? I and so it's just it's interesting. Jack Fusco (36:49) Yeah, that has to be A a different level of of difficult that like no no amount of planning is going to prepare you for how much time you're gonna have during that session. Meg (37:00) Yeah. Well, so wrapping this all up, I just have a couple more questions for you. Is there something that you haven't photographed yet? So some sort of like celestial event or location that you've kind of been like dreaming about that you really, really hope to get to at some point. Jack Fusco (37:19) So I it's funny. I haven't been to the some southern hemisphere to shoot the the southern night sky. there's been a couple of times where stuff was in the works but just didn't kind of pan out. So that is something I I hope to do at some point. and then yeah, I I think that's I don't know. I I feel like I I've also like shifted a lot between the locations and types of shooting that I've been doing, Meg (37:44) Mm-hmm. Jack Fusco (37:44) I, having more more about like having like people in my photos, um, which is a Meg (37:48) Yeah, I've noticed that. I love it. Jack Fusco (37:50) like a thank you. which becomes a little less like location dependent, but it's still important. So I I think like that that I would say has been maybe a more recent endeavor, like trying to find different ways to make that kind of make sense. Meg (38:03) Yeah. And gosh, that's gotta the technical side of that, Jack Fusco (38:08) Mm-hmm. Meg (38:08) I don't even know if my brain can handle it, you know. I will say I love a challenge and how how do you go about doing this? I'm I I know I think I know the answer to this, but I'm gonna ask anyway. You you Jack Fusco (38:19) It Meg (38:22) don't use strobe or anything like that, d do you? Okay, okay. Jack Fusco (38:25) No, so when I so I I've had people in my photos for a while, but most of the time it's like a further out in the photo silhouette can't really see any sort of detail. and then I tried having people in my photos like closer to the you know the camera where we could kind of see like faces and stuff. And I I tried experimenting with lighting and I'm sure it could be done, but I didn't like the results. I didn't, it felt like even in the shots that worked out, it felt like where's this light coming from? Meg (38:53) Yeah. Jack Fusco (38:54) like it didn't it was just this unexplained light source that didn't make sense to me. so I have a lot of it was finding locations that might have been like that balance of like not super dark, but having enough ambient light where you can shoot just using the ambient light or using moonlight. a certain look, there's certain phases of the moon where if it's not super high in the sky and you use it when it's closer to the horizon to place your subjects and have that just illuminate them by moonlight and then just try to find the the other part that's difficult is just trying to find poses and things for people to be doing at night that make Meg (39:26) Yeah. That's my Jack Fusco (39:28) sense. Meg (39:28) that that's my weak point. That that posing in general is something I need to get better at. Yeah. Yeah. And especially at night, like what it what would they be doing? Yeah. I get I get it. Jack Fusco (39:35) Yeah, I I I I feel it's right. Cause you can't capture someone mid action. Or at least like maybe that's something j just to me that doesn't make sense because I know it's a long exposure. And like so maybe someone also look at it and think, it's not weird that they were running at night. Because I prefer to run at night. Like maybe not me, but personally I don't run at night. Meg (39:55) Yeah. Jack Fusco (39:56) but I'm sure somebody does. Um, Meg (39:58) Yeah. Jack Fusco (39:58) but maybe someone wouldn't think twice about that where I would look at it and go, That's not possible, right? Like they were just like standing still in that pose for a little bit. So yeah, I think that is also part of maybe like either I have to get past my own inability to see something that's making sense or not making sense because I know like the kind of behind it, or just try to find some more ways to be creative about it and find stuff that makes sense. Meg (40:24) Yeah. So what do you have do you have anything coming up right now that you're excited about? Anything coming up soon? Jack Fusco (40:31) Yeah, so about three months ago I released an astrophotography app. Um I did, and I I was Meg (40:37) You did. I feel I I feel like I knew this. Jack Fusco (40:39) saying I I don't know if I sent it to, and I apologize if I didn't. Um I guess I have not, but Meg (40:43) Yeah, I mean yeah. Jack Fusco (40:46) it's called Milky Way Tonight. And basically like I I have always used four different apps and a couple different websites to kind of find all that planning information. And then you have to interpret it and figure out when is a good night, even if it's just the night ahead or a couple months from now. but I I spent a I initially built some tools for myself to use and then I was like, this is really helpful. this is actually making it a lot easier and just fell into a full app over the course of time. so the app will read your location, look at the timing for the Milky Way core being above the horizon, and then it'll also look at the hourly cloud forecast to see if clouds are going to be a problem, the moon phase, rise and set times, and the light pollution for your location and just Meg (41:31) wow. Jack Fusco (41:31) tell you instantly if it's a good night. So the first thing you'll see is tonight a good night to photograph the Milky Way. And if not, when is the next good night? And then when you're in the field, you can hold it up and it has like one of those sky planners. and has like some technical stuff. So like I I put a lot of work into just having it. include all the information you need, but also being really easy to understand. and not feel like you need to you know have a tutorial course to to use the app. And um Meg (41:57) Rights for yeah. Jack Fusco (42:01) so that that's been really exciting. And I'm going to be releasing an update for it. probably that or a big content update for it that'll be probably end of October, early November. that will go beyond just the Milky Way. It'll just help people find other stuff in the night sky. And I'm I'm excited about that part of it and just trying to expand a little bit. Meg (42:22) That's amazing. Congratulations. That's really cool. You'll have to Jack Fusco (42:24) Thank you. Meg (42:24) send me the the link to it so I can share it. Uh Jack Fusco (42:29) Yeah. Meg (42:29) it's funny, one of my questions earlier that I had skipped over, but I was gonna ask you was on apps. So I'm glad that this came up because I I was Jack Fusco (42:37) Yeah. Meg (42:37) curious. It's like, well, what do you use? so that's perfect. Oh, that's awesome. Jack Fusco (42:41) Yeah. Thank you. Yeah, it's been I I think especially because I didn't set out to I didn't start with like I'm gonna build an app. It was just kind of like I said, you know, especially because like when I'm home, you know, if I've been traveling a lot, then I I don't shoot quite as often at home. Um, Meg (42:56) Mm-hmm. Jack Fusco (42:57) so I wanna but I still want to and I just wanted to be able to, you know, see like is tonight a good night without having to right, let's check, let's check the weather site, let's check what where the moon's at, let's see, Meg (43:06) Yeah, all the diff mm. Jack Fusco (43:07) what time the Milky Way is gonna be visible. Because earlier in the year, it's it's not just go outside and see the Milky Way. It's like you may not be able to go until 2 a.m. there's certain nights where you can go out even though the moon is out because it'll set earlier and you have to look at does the moon set before the Milky Way rises? And this just does all that. So I it's been exciting to to get the share with people. Meg (43:24) Hmm. It's amazing. Yeah. You've Jack Fusco (43:28) Thank you. Meg (43:29) you've simplified the process, which I'm all about that. let's not make it complicated, right? So let's Jack Fusco (43:33) Yeah. Meg (43:34) have everything in one place. That's really cool. Where can people Jack Fusco (43:37) Thank you. Meg (43:38) find you? Find, you know, work that you're you're posting, new work, all of that good stuff. Jack Fusco (43:45) mostly on Instagram, just Jack Fusco. I post on Facebook and I have accounts on the other platforms but are a lot less active on them. Meg (43:55) Yeah, stay away from threads. Just a a tip there. man, that's a that's aggressive territory. I I I I'm Jack Fusco (44:02) I I know. Meg (44:03) I'm always reminded I post there about once a month, if that, maybe every month and a half. And every time I post, I'm like, this is why I only post here about once a month, because it's aggressive, Jack Fusco (44:12) Yeah. Meg (44:13) it's aggressive. Jack Fusco (44:14) I know, I I feel like it it started off when I think when I first started off, people were just resharing their Instagram Meg (44:20) Yeah. Jack Fusco (44:20) content and it was pretty welcoming. And then I was like, I don't see the super point of resharing the same thing to the same people and adding something else that I have to do. And then when I finally went back to it, I was like, this is a lot different than than when I last looked at it. Like this is this feels like a lot more opinions. Meg (44:39) Yes. Yeah. I think it's it's like I like to try to share there because I feel like I reach an audience that I don't reach on Instagram. But with that said, it's it's people that aren't familiar with my work. And so I get a lot of AI accusations, which they don't have to look. Jack Fusco (44:54) Yeah. Meg (44:55) It doesn't take long to like look into my work because I share a lot of my process and the behind the scenes and Jack Fusco (44:59) Right. Meg (44:59) and all of that. So, you know, but people don't Jack Fusco (45:03) Yeah. Meg (45:03) look. They just immediately see red. And Jack Fusco (45:07) Yeah. Meg (45:07) I I totally get it with AI, I get that. But Jack Fusco (45:10) Right. Meg (45:11) it's no good when you're accusing like the wrong people either of Jack Fusco (45:15) Yeah. No, that's a it's a whole other frustrations. Meg (45:21) Yep. Yeah. Yeah. I'm sure yeah, we all have to deal with it, right? So well, thank you so much for coming on here. It was really nice to like talking to you and learning more about astrophotography because it is really fascinating. and again, I really love all that you do, especially your storytelling with it. It's just a different kind of a look into astrophotography, not something that you normally see. So I think that's really incredible. And I appreciate you being here. Jack Fusco (45:50) No, thank you so much. This was so much fun. Meg (45:53) Yeah, thank you.