1 00:00:02,180 --> 00:00:04,500 Bastian: My wish 2 00:00:05,550 --> 00:00:11,850 or my dream would be that everywhere in Europe or in the world, but 3 00:00:12,000 --> 00:00:14,840 let's stay with Europe for now. 4 00:00:15,750 --> 00:00:20,970 It can be a reasonable choice for a young person to decide that they want to 5 00:00:20,970 --> 00:00:27,150 work in youth work and it's not going to require them to sacrifice their future. 6 00:00:30,210 --> 00:00:30,720 Ismael: Hello everyone. 7 00:00:30,960 --> 00:00:34,260 And welcome to under 30, a podcast brought to you by the youth 8 00:00:34,260 --> 00:00:37,280 partnership between the European Commission and the council of Europe. 9 00:00:37,770 --> 00:00:40,390 I'm Ismael Paez Civico Civico and together with Marietta Balazs 10 00:00:40,390 --> 00:00:41,630 , we'll be hosting this episode. 11 00:00:41,960 --> 00:00:42,680 I hope you enjoy. 12 00:00:48,860 --> 00:00:51,260 Marietta: Welcome to the under 30 broadcast series 13 00:00:51,260 --> 00:00:53,490 of the youth partnership. 14 00:00:54,260 --> 00:00:57,900 Today's episode is a preview of one of our upcoming publications. 15 00:00:58,370 --> 00:01:01,700 Thinking together and leveling up, I thinking and action kit for the 16 00:01:01,700 --> 00:01:05,780 continuous development improvement and strengthening of the youth work 17 00:01:05,780 --> 00:01:07,460 field, which will be published. 18 00:01:07,460 --> 00:01:11,090 So it's part of our insights series and it's the first 19 00:01:11,090 --> 00:01:12,650 one, the focus on youth work. 20 00:01:13,160 --> 00:01:17,480 It summarizes the results of a large scale research project and presents it in 21 00:01:17,480 --> 00:01:21,930 the morning gauging format and language today we have with us Ajsa and Bastian 22 00:01:21,950 --> 00:01:23,470 the two authors of the thinking kit. 23 00:01:24,190 --> 00:01:27,290 Ajsa, Bastian, could you please say a few things about you. 24 00:01:29,620 --> 00:01:30,730 Ajsa: Thank you Marietta. 25 00:01:30,780 --> 00:01:37,200 So my name is Ajsa and I'm a youth worker, uh, and actually youth worker 26 00:01:37,210 --> 00:01:41,880 coming from a context where youth work is still really at the very early stages 27 00:01:41,880 --> 00:01:46,950 of being recognized, uh, while it is being practiced for quite some time. 28 00:01:46,950 --> 00:01:52,170 So in that sense, I was happy to be able to contribute to writing 29 00:01:52,170 --> 00:01:56,610 this Thinking and Action Kit that would help in different contexts. 30 00:01:56,809 --> 00:02:02,270 Uh, all of us will actually support youth work and development further. 31 00:02:04,600 --> 00:02:04,820 Bastian: Yeah. 32 00:02:04,820 --> 00:02:06,375 Hello, I'm Bastian. 33 00:02:07,135 --> 00:02:12,165 I'm a facilitator of learning and all kinds of different contexts. 34 00:02:12,415 --> 00:02:17,965 I grew up in the environment of the European youth centers in Strasburg 35 00:02:17,965 --> 00:02:21,835 and Budapest, where I learned my craft, I would say, uh, but now 36 00:02:21,835 --> 00:02:25,865 I work in all kinds of places and I think I came into this project. 37 00:02:26,485 --> 00:02:29,355 More as someone who's had some experience in writing. 38 00:02:29,355 --> 00:02:36,165 Who's had some experience in explaining stuff to people and who has a bigger, 39 00:02:36,465 --> 00:02:41,625 or a bit more of a distant view, a little bit farther away from it. 40 00:02:41,655 --> 00:02:47,775 And who can, uh, it's not so much in the field, but looks at it from the outside. 41 00:02:49,575 --> 00:02:52,815 Marietta: It is very important to keep a few things in mind before we dive 42 00:02:52,815 --> 00:02:54,565 into the content of the Thinking Kit. 43 00:02:55,105 --> 00:02:57,960 Youth Work development is a continuum without a final 44 00:02:57,960 --> 00:03:00,450 endpoint, we can always improve it. 45 00:03:00,900 --> 00:03:04,410 There is also diversity among different countries and different regions. 46 00:03:04,440 --> 00:03:07,230 For example, there might be different definitions or 47 00:03:07,230 --> 00:03:09,030 qualifications for youth workers. 48 00:03:09,420 --> 00:03:12,450 Therefore the thinking kit is not a step-by-step guide. 49 00:03:13,170 --> 00:03:16,950 It aims to support you finding the best path forward in your own country. 50 00:03:17,730 --> 00:03:21,450 In the thinking kit we talk a lot about your own context, this means your 51 00:03:21,450 --> 00:03:26,490 particular organization, your geographic location, the reality in which you work, 52 00:03:27,540 --> 00:03:32,250 the thinking kit is a reality check, it's a journey or checkpoint to bring forward. 53 00:03:32,310 --> 00:03:33,940 The European Youth Work environment 54 00:03:35,730 --> 00:03:36,290 Ismael: okay. 55 00:03:36,380 --> 00:03:36,880 Perfect. 56 00:03:36,900 --> 00:03:40,080 So thank you very much, Marietta for that short introduction of what is 57 00:03:40,080 --> 00:03:41,550 actually the thinking and action kit. 58 00:03:42,000 --> 00:03:44,160 And now I do have another question more towards our guests. 59 00:03:44,160 --> 00:03:48,120 So towards Ajsa and Bastian specifically, and what exactly 60 00:03:48,120 --> 00:03:50,460 is a thinking and action kit, but more from your perspective, a 61 00:03:50,460 --> 00:03:53,670 less theoretical perspective, what do you wish to achieve with it? 62 00:03:53,730 --> 00:03:57,780 And what exactly is its purpose button, please, if you might want to 63 00:03:57,780 --> 00:04:00,830 start with that question and then we can give the, give the word to Ajsa. 64 00:04:01,980 --> 00:04:02,880 Bastian: So when we were. 65 00:04:04,079 --> 00:04:07,260 Thinking about how we will approach this work. 66 00:04:07,370 --> 00:04:09,420 We didn't want to do a toolkit. 67 00:04:09,450 --> 00:04:14,160 We didn't want to give a set of instructions that was okay, do this 68 00:04:14,160 --> 00:04:15,900 first and then do that and then do that. 69 00:04:15,900 --> 00:04:19,860 And then you'll be successful because the contexts across Europe are just 70 00:04:19,860 --> 00:04:25,350 so incredibly different and the starting points are so different. 71 00:04:25,380 --> 00:04:26,460 And also. 72 00:04:27,420 --> 00:04:32,100 The things that would work in each context, us so completely different. 73 00:04:32,100 --> 00:04:40,080 And so what we wanted to provide was a practical publication or a practical 74 00:04:40,080 --> 00:04:45,540 set of ideas that get people to think more questions than answers really, 75 00:04:45,900 --> 00:04:48,840 but that all a geared towards action. 76 00:04:49,140 --> 00:04:52,110 So that it's not just saying with all, let's think about interesting 77 00:04:52,110 --> 00:04:53,010 things, even though that's it. 78 00:04:54,164 --> 00:04:57,465 Thing to do in your free time, but if you want to change something, if you want 79 00:04:57,465 --> 00:05:02,445 to make things better than the thinking needs to be geared towards action. 80 00:05:02,474 --> 00:05:11,205 And so we wanted to give, uh, a tool that allows people to think deeply and think 81 00:05:11,205 --> 00:05:14,924 together and have meaningful conversations with the stakeholders that need to 82 00:05:14,924 --> 00:05:20,625 be around the table, but that are all geared towards improving the environment 83 00:05:20,625 --> 00:05:22,625 for youth workers all across Europe. 84 00:05:24,765 --> 00:05:27,380 Ismael: I think that is a, that's very interesting what you said, because of 85 00:05:27,380 --> 00:05:29,760 course youth work is not just there to give you answers , it's mainly there 86 00:05:29,780 --> 00:05:33,200 to give you the framework and the tools to actually get the, get the answers to 87 00:05:33,200 --> 00:05:34,400 the questions you're asking yourself. 88 00:05:34,580 --> 00:05:37,280 So even the approach itself is kind of interesting when you say that 89 00:05:37,280 --> 00:05:39,409 we're not there to give the answers we're there to ask the questions. 90 00:05:39,650 --> 00:05:43,280 I want everyone to think critically on what actually is the best outcome or the 91 00:05:43,280 --> 00:05:46,760 best solutions to the problems that we have at hand, especially when it comes to. 92 00:05:47,100 --> 00:05:49,765 a diverse continent as is Europe and every country has their 93 00:05:49,765 --> 00:05:51,205 own realities to deal with. 94 00:05:51,655 --> 00:05:53,035 Um, Ajsa please. 95 00:05:54,525 --> 00:05:58,545 Ajsa: Yeah, I completely agree that that was, that was our, our approach. 96 00:05:58,575 --> 00:06:03,855 Maybe I can add just the one little, little thing in adding to this thinking 97 00:06:03,855 --> 00:06:07,795 and action, which actually then became the title of the, of the kid. 98 00:06:08,745 --> 00:06:14,115 Um, we were looking, well, actually prepared. 99 00:06:15,180 --> 00:06:21,810 Ourselves and everyone who would be the future user of the, uh, kit, to 100 00:06:21,810 --> 00:06:27,360 start thinking and then to enter into action, because even to reflect, you 101 00:06:27,360 --> 00:06:31,530 know, you, you need to have a certain perspective on what's the situation. 102 00:06:31,530 --> 00:06:36,210 You need to have a certain understanding of what's happening in your own context, 103 00:06:36,659 --> 00:06:42,150 but then also, uh, what we found helpful from different experiences. 104 00:06:43,170 --> 00:06:47,220 Both as educators and youth workers is that it helps to know also the 105 00:06:47,220 --> 00:06:51,420 examples of how other people or in other contexts things can be done. 106 00:06:51,780 --> 00:06:58,320 Or it helps also to understand, to a simple story of how that affects me, 107 00:06:58,410 --> 00:07:04,650 or, you know, anyone, someone who is in the youth work field or, or, uh, in this 108 00:07:04,650 --> 00:07:08,490 particular, in this particular case who is a youth worker and these kinds of. 109 00:07:09,885 --> 00:07:11,505 Improvements in that, in the field. 110 00:07:11,625 --> 00:07:17,955 And that's, that's why, you know, in order to get to the reflection questions, to the 111 00:07:17,955 --> 00:07:24,375 thinking part, and then it will be really the best equipped to take some action 112 00:07:24,465 --> 00:07:29,655 and to, uh, actually work on improving the, uh, the youth work environment. 113 00:07:30,104 --> 00:07:31,275 In your own context. 114 00:07:31,755 --> 00:07:37,125 We also provided a bit of a, let's say, translation of what has been. 115 00:07:37,980 --> 00:07:41,880 Collected in an impressive knowledge book that Marietta was 116 00:07:41,880 --> 00:07:49,470 talking about summarizing it to the very core of the findings. 117 00:07:49,470 --> 00:07:52,890 And one was the, exactly the diversity of experiences across 118 00:07:52,890 --> 00:07:54,930 Europe, and then also what works. 119 00:07:55,920 --> 00:08:00,510 And we are really hoping that this will help also to inspire. 120 00:08:01,575 --> 00:08:05,805 To an extent to inspire also people who are thinking, okay, now we are stuck 121 00:08:05,805 --> 00:08:07,965 with all, you know, what else can we do? 122 00:08:07,965 --> 00:08:09,525 How can we move things forward? 123 00:08:09,975 --> 00:08:15,285 But those examples can actually inspire the little stories that we 124 00:08:15,285 --> 00:08:20,745 share them and actually show why is it important and how important it is 125 00:08:21,285 --> 00:08:26,055 that there are better conditions for youth work in every context in Europe. 126 00:08:28,539 --> 00:08:31,299 Ismael: For when it comes to, I mean, to the context of course, of, of 127 00:08:31,299 --> 00:08:34,900 youth, we we're speaking a lot about differences in different countries or 128 00:08:34,900 --> 00:08:38,500 in different actual realities, how youth work goes from one place to another. 129 00:08:38,740 --> 00:08:41,380 So if I understood correctly, is this a specific framework 130 00:08:41,409 --> 00:08:42,520 only for the European continent? 131 00:08:42,520 --> 00:08:45,730 Cause, cause you just said the world and of course when it comes to the world and 132 00:08:45,730 --> 00:08:47,290 itself, what do exactly mean by that? 133 00:08:47,410 --> 00:08:50,740 Uh, because Europe is very different from the rest of the 134 00:08:50,740 --> 00:08:51,670 countries around the world. 135 00:08:51,670 --> 00:08:53,140 So can, this may be thinking kit. 136 00:08:53,944 --> 00:08:57,305 From South Africa, for example, from Columbia, get the thinking and 137 00:08:57,305 --> 00:09:00,545 say, okay, I can actually replicate some of these things, uh, in Europe. 138 00:09:00,574 --> 00:09:04,474 Do, do you want to Europe to actually become like a pioneer in making an example 139 00:09:04,505 --> 00:09:09,005 of what an actual structural framework for youth work can be, uh, around the world. 140 00:09:12,555 --> 00:09:14,435 Ajsa: Two sides to that. 141 00:09:14,735 --> 00:09:16,635 To be answered to that question. 142 00:09:16,755 --> 00:09:22,185 Uh, one is primarily the thinking and action kit is for European context. 143 00:09:22,635 --> 00:09:27,435 And, you know, once you get to it, you can see that there is all this element 144 00:09:27,465 --> 00:09:35,070 of how can youth work at your context local national regional can be supported 145 00:09:35,070 --> 00:09:40,170 by certain developments or European level or resources developed at european level. 146 00:09:41,580 --> 00:09:46,320 However, with that said, I think, you know, contexts in within 147 00:09:46,320 --> 00:09:48,120 Europe are already so diverse. 148 00:09:48,479 --> 00:09:53,010 And the questions that we were asking, and we're really trying to be as 149 00:09:53,099 --> 00:09:58,229 inclusive as possible so that no one, basically really, even, I would say 150 00:09:58,660 --> 00:10:03,689 maybe Bastian can also jump in, but even anywhere in the world who say, well, 151 00:10:03,689 --> 00:10:05,310 this doesn't have anything to do with me. 152 00:10:06,329 --> 00:10:06,569 Okay. 153 00:10:06,569 --> 00:10:11,459 This question is good question to start thinking about what we can do. 154 00:10:11,849 --> 00:10:17,099 And I think that's the, that's the value of the thinking and action or such. 155 00:10:18,540 --> 00:10:19,950 So, right. 156 00:10:19,970 --> 00:10:24,990 Answer, provide a solution if you want in particular context. 157 00:10:25,050 --> 00:10:27,690 And of course it helps with the European level. 158 00:10:28,500 --> 00:10:32,040 So the resources and factors that are supporting towards you youth 159 00:10:32,040 --> 00:10:37,439 work and its recognition and its role for young people in society, 160 00:10:37,989 --> 00:10:38,550 Ismael: And you Bastian 161 00:10:38,620 --> 00:10:41,010 do you think that Europe, I mean, I'll ask you the same question. 162 00:10:41,010 --> 00:10:42,930 Maybe you have a different, a different perspective because we do 163 00:10:42,930 --> 00:10:45,270 know that Europe has been leading in some things, for example, the green 164 00:10:45,270 --> 00:10:48,420 transition, do you think can be the same thing with youth work in itself? 165 00:10:48,420 --> 00:10:49,920 And getting a general framework. 166 00:10:49,920 --> 00:10:52,800 Like you've been developing here asking the right questions in order 167 00:10:52,800 --> 00:10:54,420 to hopefully get the right answers. 168 00:10:54,630 --> 00:10:57,120 Do you think other countries maybe or continents. 169 00:10:57,120 --> 00:10:59,530 As a matter of fact, can take that same approach. 170 00:10:59,780 --> 00:11:05,520 Bastian: The entire story of humanity is, uh, going elsewhere, looking what 171 00:11:05,520 --> 00:11:12,000 works there and then transplanting it to some degree into one's own context 172 00:11:12,000 --> 00:11:13,590 and see if it flourishes there. 173 00:11:13,650 --> 00:11:14,070 I mean, the. 174 00:11:15,000 --> 00:11:22,980 Potatoes from Peru uh, nourished the Irish and Polish and everyone 175 00:11:22,980 --> 00:11:27,090 in Europe and chilies from Mexico are part and parcel of the Indian 176 00:11:27,090 --> 00:11:29,100 cuisine and et cetera, et cetera. 177 00:11:29,100 --> 00:11:35,640 So I would hope that people from across the world can look at this and 178 00:11:35,880 --> 00:11:37,740 not say, oh, this is how you do it. 179 00:11:38,474 --> 00:11:43,185 Because that's not how this works, but they can, uh, that anybody who 180 00:11:43,185 --> 00:11:46,844 works with young people anywhere could look at this and say, okay, 181 00:11:46,844 --> 00:11:48,495 what could be my version of this? 182 00:11:48,555 --> 00:11:54,405 And what way could I be inspired to take a perspective on my context, 183 00:11:54,405 --> 00:11:55,745 look at the different stakeholders. 184 00:11:55,755 --> 00:11:59,745 In my context, look at the resources that I have available to me that 185 00:11:59,745 --> 00:12:00,915 other people might not have. 186 00:12:00,974 --> 00:12:06,495 Uh, but what do I have look around, uh, and really see. 187 00:12:07,425 --> 00:12:09,015 What might flourish here? 188 00:12:09,045 --> 00:12:10,485 What might work here? 189 00:12:10,485 --> 00:12:14,055 What kind of relationship between stakeholders is possible here 190 00:12:14,085 --> 00:12:15,375 and what is not possible here? 191 00:12:15,885 --> 00:12:26,375 And in what ways can I kind of create an ecosystem of a connection and of 192 00:12:26,425 --> 00:12:30,725 ambition and of, um, vision that can. 193 00:12:31,515 --> 00:12:35,505 Allow the young people that live here, have the resources and have 194 00:12:35,505 --> 00:12:41,405 the access and have a path into their future that is worth working for 195 00:12:42,845 --> 00:12:43,484 Marietta: what do you think? 196 00:12:43,484 --> 00:12:46,214 What can be the main impact of the thinking kit in Europe? 197 00:12:46,694 --> 00:12:50,295 Let's imagine we have already published the thinking kit, people start to use 198 00:12:50,295 --> 00:12:52,125 it and we can notice some changes. 199 00:12:52,604 --> 00:12:55,425 What do you hope to be the main impact of this publication on the 200 00:12:55,425 --> 00:12:59,285 life of a youth worker who works on grassroots level somewhere in Europe. 201 00:13:00,144 --> 00:13:05,285 Ajsa: I think our hope or my hope when, when we were working and 202 00:13:06,015 --> 00:13:10,455 discussing definitely initiates 203 00:13:11,010 --> 00:13:15,810 first of all thinking and, uh, saying, understanding the context, but then 204 00:13:15,810 --> 00:13:21,270 also initiates the changes and changes, hopefully, either in direction with 205 00:13:21,280 --> 00:13:23,459 improvement of conditions of youth work. 206 00:13:23,990 --> 00:13:29,100 Uh, we have seen, uh, in the, in the, in the knowledgeable how, uh, what, what 207 00:13:29,100 --> 00:13:35,160 the research has captured, how different situation it is from context to context. 208 00:13:35,730 --> 00:13:37,430 And our, our idea was. 209 00:13:38,564 --> 00:13:43,125 Each one can improve, you know, even in the, in the, let's say the most 210 00:13:43,125 --> 00:13:47,714 developed and supportive environment for youth work there are still uh, 211 00:13:47,775 --> 00:13:49,074 things that could be improved. 212 00:13:49,484 --> 00:13:53,324 And, uh, uh, in the let's say, least developed more. 213 00:13:54,314 --> 00:13:59,175 Those, the context where youth work is only at the early stages of being 214 00:13:59,175 --> 00:14:05,145 recognized, or even be back this sense, there is a horizon that you can see that. 215 00:14:05,745 --> 00:14:11,069 This is still a starting point from which we can take things forward. 216 00:14:11,910 --> 00:14:16,500 And when we were working on this we were thinking Not only about youth 217 00:14:16,500 --> 00:14:18,840 workers as initiators of change. 218 00:14:18,900 --> 00:14:20,670 And I think that's important too. 219 00:14:21,990 --> 00:14:27,810 Our idea is that actually anyone in the, in the field could recognize themselves 220 00:14:27,810 --> 00:14:33,660 as somebody who can initiate this thinking and then action taking to change things. 221 00:14:33,660 --> 00:14:39,990 So it can be equally a youth worker who recognize themselves in the situation 222 00:14:40,080 --> 00:14:42,450 as much as educators, youth workers. 223 00:14:42,710 --> 00:14:48,720 To do something with their curriculums or work from that point 224 00:14:48,960 --> 00:14:51,480 on onwards, it can be a policymaker. 225 00:14:51,480 --> 00:14:57,630 It can be a decision-maker looking at, you know, legislation surrounding 226 00:14:57,630 --> 00:14:59,760 the surrounding the youth work. 227 00:14:59,770 --> 00:15:05,490 It can be an employer, anyone in the civil sector or in the local authorities 228 00:15:05,490 --> 00:15:08,850 or in the you know again, very different from, from country to country. 229 00:15:08,850 --> 00:15:15,465 But every single actor we hope they'll recognize themselves as somebody 230 00:15:15,465 --> 00:15:19,935 who could be that hero offer youth work development, let's say would 231 00:15:19,935 --> 00:15:25,365 be that person of initiating the spark of change or improvement of, 232 00:15:25,515 --> 00:15:31,215 you know, putting things in motion toward reaching the better conditions. 233 00:15:32,055 --> 00:15:35,075 Ismael: So I want to, I actually relay now a question, uh, more towards 234 00:15:35,075 --> 00:15:37,935 Bastian because we are speaking about the disparities between the countries 235 00:15:37,935 --> 00:15:40,665 and that's one of the gaps that actually needed bridging on how we can actually 236 00:15:40,995 --> 00:15:44,535 find an architectural framework if you will, to put everything together. 237 00:15:44,895 --> 00:15:47,685 But we need to go of course, from a high resolution point of view, 238 00:15:47,685 --> 00:15:50,324 when it comes to very specific points and what actually happens. 239 00:15:50,535 --> 00:15:51,795 To a low resolution point of view. 240 00:15:52,035 --> 00:15:54,954 So go permit, uh, open up the scope towards the whole of Europe. 241 00:15:55,384 --> 00:15:58,895 Bastian what do you think may be the main pillars of that scope would be 242 00:15:59,165 --> 00:16:02,765 something that maybe everyone has in common, uh, are not focusing so much 243 00:16:02,795 --> 00:16:06,275 on the, uh, well on the specificities of each country or each reality. 244 00:16:06,875 --> 00:16:10,204 How would you be able to describe a bit how we can find a common ground 245 00:16:10,564 --> 00:16:13,095 and what will be the main things that maybe everyone needs to adopt? 246 00:16:13,620 --> 00:16:17,280 Bastian: That's a tricky question because the high risk solution is 247 00:16:17,280 --> 00:16:25,680 very fuzzy and there is really such a diversity of youth worker realities. 248 00:16:25,710 --> 00:16:30,510 There are places in Europe where it is a very feasible career and 249 00:16:30,510 --> 00:16:32,160 there is a structure around it. 250 00:16:32,160 --> 00:16:33,030 You can study it. 251 00:16:33,060 --> 00:16:37,380 There are employment possibilities, there are career paths you can grow in it. 252 00:16:38,100 --> 00:16:40,650 And then there are other areas where. 253 00:16:41,960 --> 00:16:43,370 It is a hobby. 254 00:16:43,670 --> 00:16:48,740 Uh, and then people exploit themselves essentially to do what they love, but 255 00:16:48,740 --> 00:16:51,170 they live in very precarious situations. 256 00:16:51,530 --> 00:16:54,860 And there's a huge degree of inequality when it comes to this. 257 00:16:55,220 --> 00:16:58,880 And so we see quite a lot of youth workers that are. 258 00:16:59,470 --> 00:17:03,790 Either going into these precarious situations and having very unstable lives 259 00:17:03,790 --> 00:17:07,089 around that, going from project grant to project grant and seeing how they can 260 00:17:07,089 --> 00:17:11,980 make a living from it or how they can keep surviving from it and who at some point 261 00:17:11,980 --> 00:17:17,110 move somewhere else, maybe where they can actually make a living and make it a 262 00:17:17,110 --> 00:17:19,630 profession and not just a glorified hobby. 263 00:17:19,750 --> 00:17:23,470 And so I think it's very difficult to say what is needed everywhere. 264 00:17:23,470 --> 00:17:24,310 I think what is. 265 00:17:25,215 --> 00:17:30,075 Needed everywhere is, uh, a dissatisfaction with the status quo 266 00:17:30,075 --> 00:17:33,375 and a belief that more is possible. 267 00:17:33,405 --> 00:17:36,915 But what is also needed, I think, is that from what ever vantage point 268 00:17:36,915 --> 00:17:40,465 you have, whether or not you're a practitioner or a politician or a 269 00:17:40,515 --> 00:17:43,075 professor who trains youth workers. 270 00:17:43,290 --> 00:17:44,909 Is that it can start with you. 271 00:17:45,179 --> 00:17:47,070 It doesn't have to start with someone else. 272 00:17:47,070 --> 00:17:49,530 You don't have to wait for someone else. 273 00:17:49,530 --> 00:17:52,050 It can always start with you. 274 00:17:52,110 --> 00:17:55,169 Which to me is a very empowering perspective. 275 00:17:55,379 --> 00:17:59,250 It also is an uncompromising perspective because then it means that if you 276 00:17:59,250 --> 00:18:02,399 want change, you actually have to do something and you can't wait for 277 00:18:02,399 --> 00:18:04,290 someone else for the European union. 278 00:18:04,935 --> 00:18:08,475 To give a framework or for the council of Europe to give some 279 00:18:08,475 --> 00:18:12,195 solutions to it, but it actually has to start with you because no one 280 00:18:12,195 --> 00:18:15,225 knows your context as good as you do. 281 00:18:15,765 --> 00:18:20,415 No one can find a solution that works for your context, as good as you can in 282 00:18:20,425 --> 00:18:22,275 dialogue with the other stakeholders. 283 00:18:22,305 --> 00:18:27,735 And I think that for me is the, is the main message here is that it has to 284 00:18:27,735 --> 00:18:30,795 start local or regional and it needs. 285 00:18:31,680 --> 00:18:33,690 All those factors, it needs policy. 286 00:18:33,840 --> 00:18:37,770 It needs pressure from practice that they need the policy. 287 00:18:38,250 --> 00:18:45,030 It needs also then an opening in academia to actually take youth work 288 00:18:45,210 --> 00:18:51,780 serious and provide actual educational pathways to become a youth worker maybe. 289 00:18:51,900 --> 00:18:53,250 And it needs all of this. 290 00:18:53,280 --> 00:18:58,110 And I hope also what this thinking could then provide when people go in and they 291 00:18:58,110 --> 00:18:59,700 read examples from other countries. 292 00:19:01,245 --> 00:19:05,055 It might instill healthy sort of competition. 293 00:19:05,505 --> 00:19:09,795 You're not, not, not every development is done for the altruistic reasons. 294 00:19:09,795 --> 00:19:10,665 That would be great. 295 00:19:10,665 --> 00:19:14,325 If the development would be motivated from that, sometimes it's just, you don't 296 00:19:14,325 --> 00:19:15,645 want to be out done by your neighbor. 297 00:19:15,705 --> 00:19:21,120 And if from that motivation, Possibilities for youth workers to 298 00:19:21,120 --> 00:19:25,960 do their work meaningfully without constant fear of precariarity then 299 00:19:25,960 --> 00:19:29,820 so maybe it, but at least, uh, we have development in the right direction. 300 00:19:30,360 --> 00:19:33,450 Ismael: I like that idea of a healthy competition that actually does 301 00:19:33,450 --> 00:19:36,240 help cause some countries within, within Europe, uh, replicate some 302 00:19:36,240 --> 00:19:37,470 things I've already been working. 303 00:19:37,740 --> 00:19:41,220 We'll speak about a few examples a bit later on, but I have a question, uh, 304 00:19:41,250 --> 00:19:45,240 towards Ajsa because Bastian, you actually brought up policy and what politicians 305 00:19:45,240 --> 00:19:46,900 may be can do to actually facilitate 306 00:19:47,230 --> 00:19:51,900 uh, these processes, but more importantly, my question as a well, as a youth 307 00:19:51,900 --> 00:19:55,680 worker would be, how can we make sure that actually politicians don't dictate 308 00:19:56,010 --> 00:19:59,190 what youth workers do when maybe them themselves don't actually know what's 309 00:19:59,190 --> 00:20:02,990 going on at the local level, uh, how we can have that, that right balance between. 310 00:20:03,620 --> 00:20:06,590 What's the role of the youth worker specifically to actually create the 311 00:20:06,710 --> 00:20:10,610 viable framework in their own reality and how politicians can just leave 312 00:20:10,610 --> 00:20:14,810 a good platform for them to act upon and not necessarily impose ideas that 313 00:20:14,810 --> 00:20:16,310 might think that might be beneficial. 314 00:20:16,460 --> 00:20:18,260 But in the end don't end up working. 315 00:20:18,470 --> 00:20:21,270 What do you think might be the role of politicians in that case? 316 00:20:21,270 --> 00:20:21,630 Ajsa? 317 00:20:22,590 --> 00:20:26,000 Ajsa: I think it's really important here to understand that what we 318 00:20:26,000 --> 00:20:30,590 are talking about and what is being presented in the thinking and action 319 00:20:30,860 --> 00:20:36,090 kit or youth work is not about the content of youth work as such. 320 00:20:36,390 --> 00:20:42,780 It is really around about everything that surrounds and provides conditions 321 00:20:42,900 --> 00:20:48,390 for me to actually do the policy youth work meaningfully make a 322 00:20:48,390 --> 00:20:52,730 change in the life of a young person. 323 00:20:53,150 --> 00:20:53,590 What is it? 324 00:20:53,610 --> 00:20:58,170 That youth work is actually there for, and I think in that sense, 325 00:20:58,290 --> 00:21:01,980 politicians absolutely have a role to play and politicians, decision 326 00:21:01,980 --> 00:21:03,660 makers, policy makers, all of those. 327 00:21:04,415 --> 00:21:09,335 What creating conditions surrounding how youth work where, could it be 328 00:21:09,335 --> 00:21:13,785 practiced, with whom, under which conditions , would it be paid or 329 00:21:13,805 --> 00:21:18,245 not how sustainable that would be the, you know, really have the role 330 00:21:18,245 --> 00:21:21,875 to answer to those questions, to their whole problems of the society or not. 331 00:21:22,265 --> 00:21:27,335 And in that sense, I think what we were also trying to do for this kit is 332 00:21:27,905 --> 00:21:29,945 not to say that one of the actors. 333 00:21:30,034 --> 00:21:35,700 has bigger responsibility than the other, not to say that one needs to lead 334 00:21:35,700 --> 00:21:41,400 and the others will consult or advice, but rather than actually in the, you will 335 00:21:41,400 --> 00:21:45,750 see in, in, in the questions, one of the first things that we are asking people 336 00:21:45,750 --> 00:21:49,210 to think about is who else is around you. 337 00:21:49,590 --> 00:21:54,060 Which of the actors, which are the profiles of people with power in the, in, 338 00:21:54,060 --> 00:21:59,250 in, in different ways, power to influence the change that you want to see happening. 339 00:21:59,490 --> 00:22:02,710 And in that sense, I think if youth worker are initiating. 340 00:22:03,210 --> 00:22:04,350 Yeah, certain change. 341 00:22:04,410 --> 00:22:09,200 I mean, through them, it definitely needs to come this connecting with the 342 00:22:09,510 --> 00:22:14,250 political level and policy level so that the change could be more sustainable 343 00:22:14,280 --> 00:22:18,060 if it starts from the, from the political level, from, from the other 344 00:22:18,060 --> 00:22:21,540 side again, you know, it never works. 345 00:22:21,540 --> 00:22:27,240 And this is, I mean from more fields than, than, than one and youth work as well. 346 00:22:27,780 --> 00:22:28,710 So it's an exception. 347 00:22:28,830 --> 00:22:29,580 It never works. 348 00:22:29,580 --> 00:22:35,100 If you are just introducing solutions without actually involving the people to 349 00:22:35,100 --> 00:22:40,170 whom they are going to actually address with they're going to change that reality. 350 00:22:40,170 --> 00:22:44,590 So I'm hoping that we do put it, with our thinking and action kit it will be very 351 00:22:44,610 --> 00:22:49,050 clear that what we are proposing, even though they are asking questions that 352 00:22:49,050 --> 00:22:56,790 we are proposing, that it's a consensus building work around what needs to change 353 00:22:57,120 --> 00:22:59,610 positively to improve the situation. 354 00:22:59,679 --> 00:23:05,475 So that actually the youth work, ideally youth work how we see it as a meaningful 355 00:23:05,475 --> 00:23:10,275 practice contributing to the, to the young people, into the societies is 356 00:23:10,275 --> 00:23:15,285 being practiced in a way that, uh, that is optimal in, in certain politics. 357 00:23:15,855 --> 00:23:20,445 And that's, and that's what, uh, I would say that I think 358 00:23:20,445 --> 00:23:23,075 that's the most important part. 359 00:23:23,075 --> 00:23:26,355 We were stressing until now how, you know, the change can start from 360 00:23:26,355 --> 00:23:28,435 you and, you know, I can be the one. 361 00:23:28,945 --> 00:23:30,765 But I can be the one to initiate it. 362 00:23:30,765 --> 00:23:32,525 And this is important element. 363 00:23:32,975 --> 00:23:37,455 I don't need to be a superhero and kind of do everything on my own and actually 364 00:23:37,485 --> 00:23:45,675 like that it doesn't really work, but we are actually talking about initiating 365 00:23:45,735 --> 00:23:50,655 starting the process and involving all the other actors, all the other stakeholders. 366 00:23:50,655 --> 00:23:55,485 So that together you can both think about the change that needs to happen or the 367 00:23:55,784 --> 00:23:59,145 concrete step that needs to happen and then actually make it, make it happen. 368 00:24:00,504 --> 00:24:06,175 Bastian: Yeah, I think what it really needs, it is a collaborative, 369 00:24:06,205 --> 00:24:10,524 confident, humility on all sides, right. 370 00:24:10,524 --> 00:24:16,495 You need, uh, in order to really develop youth work infrastructure and. 371 00:24:17,640 --> 00:24:18,770 Practice architecture. 372 00:24:18,780 --> 00:24:23,520 So practice environments, you need every actor to, to come to the table, 373 00:24:23,520 --> 00:24:28,770 being really confident in how they can contribute and being really humble 374 00:24:28,770 --> 00:24:30,720 about where they need someone else. 375 00:24:31,470 --> 00:24:31,680 Right. 376 00:24:31,680 --> 00:24:35,640 You need policymakers who know like, yes, I know how to write 377 00:24:35,640 --> 00:24:38,640 good policy, but I really don't know how the practice looks like. 378 00:24:39,000 --> 00:24:42,510 And you need youth workers who come to the table and said, I really don't 379 00:24:42,510 --> 00:24:45,240 know how to work this policy stuff. 380 00:24:45,450 --> 00:24:48,300 But I really know the young people that I work with. 381 00:24:48,330 --> 00:24:53,160 And if both can come together with confidence in what they know and 382 00:24:53,160 --> 00:24:58,020 humility around what they don't know, that's a pretty good starting point. 383 00:24:58,020 --> 00:24:58,140 I see. 384 00:24:59,459 --> 00:25:02,429 Ismael: I really like how you both are presented the co-creation let's say of 385 00:25:02,429 --> 00:25:06,300 these frameworks, because usually it's either one way or the other it's either 386 00:25:06,300 --> 00:25:11,250 top-down or bottom-up usually, and then we never speak about what things can I 387 00:25:11,250 --> 00:25:14,790 actually do to complement your work and what can you do to complement my work? 388 00:25:15,149 --> 00:25:18,929 And I think this collaboration indeed, between decision makers and NGOs or, 389 00:25:18,929 --> 00:25:22,170 let's say international networks of youth workers, actually a big actor 390 00:25:22,170 --> 00:25:26,490 in Europe, uh, in itself is, um, it's basically the best way to go. 391 00:25:26,550 --> 00:25:30,210 And I think there's actual thinking kit and action kit gives the resources to not 392 00:25:30,210 --> 00:25:33,850 only decision makers, also youth workers, uh, and everyone in the field to say, 393 00:25:33,870 --> 00:25:34,080 okay. 394 00:25:34,605 --> 00:25:35,655 What do I need? 395 00:25:35,715 --> 00:25:38,835 What do I lack in and where can actually be of service? 396 00:25:38,835 --> 00:25:40,605 Because again, we can't change the world on our own. 397 00:25:40,605 --> 00:25:44,355 We actually do need help from other people and we need to collaborate together. 398 00:25:44,715 --> 00:25:47,025 And I think that's the whole basis of youth work is teamwork. 399 00:25:47,055 --> 00:25:47,595 Essentially. 400 00:25:47,685 --> 00:25:51,075 We're not alone, uh, in the, in the journey in some way. 401 00:25:52,379 --> 00:25:57,149 I would like to, uh, to, to ask a little closing question, let's say, um, 402 00:25:57,210 --> 00:26:02,879 what do you actually hope that youth work will, will be like in five years? 403 00:26:02,879 --> 00:26:04,379 Let's say, how would you see it? 404 00:26:04,409 --> 00:26:05,399 What do you think now? 405 00:26:05,669 --> 00:26:08,760 The adaptability we need to do, especially maybe COVID for example, 406 00:26:08,939 --> 00:26:12,615 we are seeing some complicated situations of youth like around Europe. 407 00:26:12,975 --> 00:26:17,235 Um, what are the actions you wish that young people actually do take 408 00:26:17,235 --> 00:26:21,735 all decision makers take in order to improve youth work around Europe and the 409 00:26:21,735 --> 00:26:24,524 framework in essence, that you've been describing all throughout the episode 410 00:26:24,735 --> 00:26:26,145 and in the thinking and action kit. 411 00:26:27,735 --> 00:26:29,895 Ajsa: It's a very difficult question. 412 00:26:29,895 --> 00:26:34,935 I'm thinking now is five years, uh, kind of too ambitious. 413 00:26:34,965 --> 00:26:36,995 For what I'm hoping. 414 00:26:40,365 --> 00:26:45,705 But I, I would start with what I'm looking for already for some time. 415 00:26:45,855 --> 00:26:49,905 And I hope the thinking and action kit can contribute to that because 416 00:26:49,905 --> 00:26:52,065 of this initiating of changes. 417 00:26:52,605 --> 00:26:55,065 That that is somewhere in its purpose. 418 00:26:55,215 --> 00:27:00,415 I would, I would hope for consensus that youth work is a practice that is. 419 00:27:01,245 --> 00:27:06,505 Beneficial to young people and that access for youth work is really clear 420 00:27:06,525 --> 00:27:12,375 and, uh, enabled for every young person across, uh, different European contexts. 421 00:27:12,435 --> 00:27:18,615 And as I was saying also even for five years, maybe to be, to be, to 422 00:27:18,615 --> 00:27:21,375 be realistic and look at Europe. 423 00:27:21,735 --> 00:27:25,845 And I think everything that needs to happen around around that 424 00:27:26,145 --> 00:27:29,205 is, you know, this is the aim. 425 00:27:29,705 --> 00:27:35,445 Uh, would really come to, uh, come to place easily in a way, you know, if you 426 00:27:35,445 --> 00:27:40,905 are, if there is really no doubt about the benefits of youth work from young 427 00:27:40,905 --> 00:27:45,655 people and society, uh, I think it will be much easier for all actors that we 428 00:27:45,655 --> 00:27:50,895 were describing and talking about to divert resources over that, and actually 429 00:27:50,895 --> 00:27:56,145 come, come up with particular solutions for different contexts to make it happen. 430 00:27:57,300 --> 00:28:01,949 I again, we don't want to prescribe solutions and there are no clear 431 00:28:01,949 --> 00:28:05,070 solutions that could work, uh, everywhere. 432 00:28:05,070 --> 00:28:08,699 You, you have very different, different situations, but I think 433 00:28:09,360 --> 00:28:14,280 you need to have always this kind of horizon or kind of vision in mind. 434 00:28:14,310 --> 00:28:17,600 So why would we need to improve anything in the youth work field? 435 00:28:18,110 --> 00:28:21,659 You know, if this, if there is a clear answer to that question, then everything 436 00:28:21,659 --> 00:28:23,310 else I would say would come to play. 437 00:28:24,375 --> 00:28:27,924 I'm hoping in the next, you know, as soon as the figure of thinking and 438 00:28:27,924 --> 00:28:33,615 action kit is published and in years following that people feel more and more 439 00:28:33,615 --> 00:28:36,044 come to this question, you know, why? 440 00:28:36,165 --> 00:28:39,605 And then I think concrete steps to actually make it work. 441 00:28:40,945 --> 00:28:46,865 Bastian: I think for me, my, my wish or my dream would be that everywhere 442 00:28:46,865 --> 00:28:52,895 in Europe or in the world, but let's stay with Europe, for now, uh, that. 443 00:28:53,985 --> 00:28:58,425 It can be a reasonable choice for a young person to decide that they want to 444 00:28:58,425 --> 00:29:04,655 work in youth work and it's not going to require them to sacrifice their future. 445 00:29:04,815 --> 00:29:10,185 It doesn't require them to, uh, make really, really tough choices, 446 00:29:10,185 --> 00:29:13,965 but there is an infrastructure to become edgy that there is a support. 447 00:29:14,720 --> 00:29:20,270 Around, um, there, there's a way to make this your life to make this your work. 448 00:29:20,300 --> 00:29:25,670 And that there is an appreciation from society that this is crucial work, that 449 00:29:25,670 --> 00:29:29,000 this isn't, this isn't hobby stuff. 450 00:29:29,030 --> 00:29:31,370 This isn't free time activities. 451 00:29:31,400 --> 00:29:33,650 This isn't a luxury. 452 00:29:33,740 --> 00:29:36,740 This is actually foundational for a society. 453 00:29:37,100 --> 00:29:41,720 And I think in the, in the context of COVID, what we've seen is that the. 454 00:29:43,080 --> 00:29:47,760 The caring professions are the ones that are really foundational and 455 00:29:47,760 --> 00:29:52,950 really fundamental when it comes to, uh, uh, functioning of society. 456 00:29:53,370 --> 00:29:57,390 They've been labeled essential workers, but I would just call them 457 00:29:57,390 --> 00:29:59,340 the foundations of any community. 458 00:29:59,340 --> 00:30:05,010 The foundations of any society are the ones who care and nourish and 459 00:30:05,040 --> 00:30:11,010 nurture the wellbeing of the community and youth workers are such people. 460 00:30:11,610 --> 00:30:18,120 And I think if they be, um, if we can work towards a recognition of the 461 00:30:18,480 --> 00:30:25,440 importance of this work and the, um, the recognition that comes with that 462 00:30:25,620 --> 00:30:30,630 is then that there is actually career pathways and there is actually a way to. 463 00:30:32,010 --> 00:30:37,139 Make this, your work, raise a family on the salary that you are receiving from it. 464 00:30:37,620 --> 00:30:41,830 And, uh, and do this as your life's work, then that would be, 465 00:30:41,830 --> 00:30:44,909 uh, uh, a Europe I would be proud to be a citizen of, I think, 466 00:30:48,270 --> 00:30:51,270 Ismael: and on those lovely ending notes, we have reached an end to our episode. 467 00:30:51,810 --> 00:30:54,219 Remember that you can access this publication and many others on our 468 00:30:54,219 --> 00:30:59,580 website and also don't forget to follow us on Instagram at EUCoEyouth to stay 469 00:30:59,580 --> 00:31:01,500 up to date with all our future content. 470 00:31:01,890 --> 00:31:03,720 Thank you very much and see you next time.