Trey: Hello, and welcome back to another episode of MCU Need to Know, a podcast
dedicated to the Marvel Cinematic Universe and everything you need to know.
I'm Trey!
Jude: I'm Jude.
I almost said I'm Judey Booty just to mess with you.
I realize, you know, cause even friend Daniel sent me a message.
Like, I can't believe you left that in my sister's been calling me that
all my life, like that's just normal.
Trey: I didn't know that.
Jude: Yeah.
Like it's like what's best for the pod.
Uh, felt like an editing, just leaving that in there.
So here we are.
Trey: We all appreciate you for it.
Jude: Yeah.
I'm not, I'm not changing away from JHubbit though.
As far as like discord and all that other stuff.
Um, that JHubbit it stays, but that's fine.
Trey: I wouldn't take that away from you.
I'm going to be peppering in a Judy booty every now and then.
Well, you know, it's so funny that you were going to throw that in there
because I've been thinking about a lot how not necessarily routine, but I say
the same thing every time we opened up an episode and there's a part of me
that wants to find a way to shake it up.
You do it throwing into Judy booty every now and there would be great.
Jude: There you go.
I'll do that.
Cool.
Trey: I'll see if I
Jude: can come up with one for me.
Yeah.
Oh, we're just gonna made up names.
I'm the stream.
Uh, she, even with that, I go with J helmet, but okay.
Oh man.
Trey: Well, you know what, it's, it's always a weird feeling when
we do back to back episodes and we have this banter section because
it's like, we just did this.
We just got
Jude: up.
What do you want from, I know like what we'll see you again.
Well, it's, it's like that realization that when I was like, oh, Hours
of us out there on the internet.
And let's just talking, uh, which, which means like, as we're recording it back to
back, um, someone's going to come across Hawkeye in real time in terms of when
it's released and they're going to listen.
So we got, we're doing the separate episodes where
we're thinking of the future,
Trey: the backlog as we call them.
Yeah, yeah,
Jude: yeah.
In new listeners that find us and go through the back.
We truly appreciate you.
Yeah.
How's
Trey: 2022.
Let us know.
Please, please be better please.
Jude: Right?
Trey: Well, of course, if you downloaded this episode, then you know, we're going
to be talking about season one episode, two of Hawkeye titled hide and seek.
So the way we're going to do this is we've got some pre spoiler thoughts for you.
We will get into the episode without spoiling it, and then
you'll hear an audio cue, which will take us into the spoiler zone.
So before we get there, Jude, do you have any pre spoiler
thoughts for episode two of
Jude: Hawkeye?
Uh, yeah, so like I mentioned that I thought this was a good, uh, and the
priests, the priests rollers, thoughts that we posted on social media, that it
was a good blend totally of that Netflix Daredevil in the MCU and what I, what
I, I want to clarify that a little bit.
What I mean by that is two.
Um, it feels, especially when you think about Loki and even Falcon in the winter
soldier, this feels very grounded.
Yeah.
You're in New York, you're in the city.
Uh, it's feels very dark and gritty, but it doesn't lose
that MCU charmers aesthetic.
Also, if you go back, you know, the backlog is go back and listen
to because it's going to become relevant after Spiderman, no way home.
Um, our season one review of Daredevil that we started with, um, We talked about
those episodes, having this AB cadence, like you had to see two episodes together.
And I feel like this is, is one of them, uh, same thing there it's
like episode one, episode one, and two definitely are a pair.
So I think you can listen to our first episode on episode one, we,
I, we started mentioning are kind of holding back a little bit of getting
into episode two and that's just because they pair so well together.
So, so yeah.
Appreciate all their thoughts.
Trey.
My preschool
Trey: is that for this episode is it feels like there are a lot of callous wounds
at play here, but, you know, I mentioned the clunkiness of episode, one being
made up for, with sincerity sincerity.
And this episode is becoming a healing cell for our characters and that is
a wholesome place for this series to be going that I wasn't expecting.
Um, and I like it a lot.
Um, The other pre spoiler thought I have is that Kate and Clint are
clearly a very strong dynamic.
And I'm so glad that this episode gets them working
together and how they work alone.
So it, it is the, I guess if I could put it this with a call to action of all
the setup they did in the first episode.
So in that sense, the AB cadence that you were invoking is definitely
felt within my notes as well.
So yeah, that's where I'm going to leave it before we get into the spoiler zone.
So.
Like we said, you're gonna hear an audio cue.
And on the other side, it'll be fair game for all spoilers in the
MCU, excluding the internals, but we'll see you on the other side
and we're back.
So we're going to break this down into the most important topics and the
first one will be reluctant teamwork.
So this section is going to be used to highlight the working relationship between
Clint and Kate, as they learn to work together and figure out what they're
going to do about the missing Ronan suit.
So starting with you, Jude, where would you like to start
with a reluctant teamwork?
Jude: Reluctant teamwork section detailed relationships.
We collate in Clint.
Okay.
I'm going to share with us something that bothered me about this and it's not.
Like, like, I didn't like the show or something in there because I
actually, I really enjoyed it.
But part of me was just like, you know, Clint, your desire
to track down that suit.
People are going to put two and two together and feel as
you were the one wearing it.
Like, like there's an element of isn't it a little bit fishy that
there was that Avengers compound and you're the one tracking it down.
Uh, it's so important to you to track it down.
So yeah, there's, there's, there's that, that didn't quite sit white with
me, but it was one of those things where like, I'm going to let that slide
because I'm really enjoying this episode.
Trey: I'm going to go out on that limit you.
And I'm going to read my notes straight.
I have a feeling that Kate finding out that Clint is Ronan
will be a huge emotional moment, but I am slightly disappointed.
They really haven't established a reason for Kate to believe why
the suit is so important to Clint beyond just stopping the bad guy.
Right.
So it's a very thin.
Reason where anybody could really put two and two together, like you said.
Yeah.
Jude: Well, and, and again, Campbell, and the story in Dan Harmon and
the story circle hero's journey, story circle, like there's going
to be, and you don't really see it.
Um, and I feel like the first episode was misnamed or this
whole never meet your hero.
Yeah.
The episode when she finds out and has that kind of apifany glass shattering
moment of like, you're not perfect.
Cause you know, that's coming that I think should have been the title
episode for never meet your hero.
Um, but it's, it's basic stages of relationship, right?
Like you have this infatuation from a four, um, you build somebody up on
a pedestal, even when you first get to know them, how wonderful they are.
And the next thing, you know, like the relationship typically should
end the stage to disappointment.
Right?
All of a sudden this they're not the person you really thought they
were, or you built them up to me.
Um, you know, and, and typically that's the relationship ends or you
accept them as a human being and they accept you and there's growth
and you grow in a relationship.
Um, and not romantic, like it can be romantic, but we do that with our friends.
Yeah.
All relationships.
Yeah.
And so it, and so like, yeah, you know, what's
Trey: coming, but you know, something that's coming to me
now, you know, I was, I was, I was saying it was a disappointment, but
I'm maybe putting this together.
We had that long conversation last episode about parasocial relationships.
Maybe it is something that is supposed to be a red flag, but because of
the way, like you said, she has put them on the pedestal is being swept
under the rug, which will make that revelation that much harder when it hits.
Jude: Yeah.
Well, and it makes you wonder, is that revelation going to be just for Kate
or is it going to be more widely known.
Right.
Cause like, from what we see in these two episodes, his wife knows.
Yeah.
Um, but you get the sense and well, Natasha knows,
Trey: Rody knows for sure.
Jude: Rowdiness man.
Okay.
So now that I think about this, like that's, if they go down that
route where like everybody finds out, now you're talking about like
Avengers team covering that up.
Trey: I w oh, I
Jude: wonder how big we have to assume.
Val knows.
Cause you have enough, the black widow in tag and Val being Val
of what little we've seen of her.
I have almost
Trey: completely forgotten that that was a hook that Val has sent your lane.
After Clint, because she's framing it as though he killed Natasha.
I think you've just done uncovered a pretty big catalyst for how
this season's going to play out.
Jude: Yeah.
You know, we're not in the prediction section.
I'm just, you know, sifting
Trey: through.
Yeah.
That's really good.
I like that a lot.
Jude: Go ahead.
If you liked this episode, Nick, Sandy, I'm sorry.
Trey: We got the first mic drop of the season for anybody playing bingo.
We got the trucks drop last week and now we got the Nick
Jude: Sandy drop.
Yeah.
Well,
Trey: you know, I want to stay in this section about parasocial relationship.
The.
Imbalance between Clint and Kate we've.
We've talked a little bit about Clint on the Kate side of thing.
I stumbled into this feeling of you have the insincere, uh, novelty of running
into someone like Hawkeye, like we had in the restaurant and in the bathroom, and
then the genuine interest and inspiration that Kate has found from Hawkeye.
It's the same person and the different ways that they have
expressed their admiration.
I love how with Kate, you know, she's doing her best to be respectful and has
also trying to weasel her way into being like an unsolicited pupil of like taking
notes, like, oh, so this is how you do it.
You're just constantly surveying and looking for suspicious activity
or, you know, she was trying to learn all she could from him.
Uh, the other example is like, oh, are we going to get like
supplies from the Avengers?
And then they show up in like the pharmacy store to get like supplies,
um, like first aid kit stuff.
So I love how it is a mix of sincerity and the, I don't even want to say unwelcome.
I'm just going to use it again.
The unsolicited pupil.
Jude: My favorite of that when you miss into that unsolicited
pupil is where and how Kate got Barton's phone number and he's.
Only for emergencies and you know, that ain't like, and we see it later.
It's not, it, it doesn't happen.
She calls I'll call you.
Yeah.
It's it's of course that's going to happen.
You know, it's, it's the whole like happy Hogan and Peter Parker thing again, it's
like, Hey, you know, I helped this lady with her lost puppy or whatever it was.
I don't know.
It wasn't that, but this, and I got a chiro and like, you know,
and, and I, and I saved this.
Guy's a bike.
Like it's totally gonna be.
Trey: Well, two things, one that is the second time we have compared
Kate Bishop to Peter Parker.
And I'm very curious to see how that comparison keeps on through the series.
And two, it makes me think of another point that I wrote down
where we'll see this again in Ms.
Marvel, but I love that we were exploring this era of the MCU, where you have a
generation of people who were inspired by the Avengers and they are now of
this is going to sound weird to say, but within a superhero context, I think this
fits, but they are now of a superhero age where they can join in the fray.
Even though they're still on the young side, they're getting these powers and
going into the fight and you can see it in the way that like Kate has that admiration
of like, Hey, can you sign my bow?
Or the, uh, she's like, yeah, I kept my mask on like a pro yeah, just little
things like that, where they have lived in a vendor's world and you can feel it.
Oh yeah.
Jude: So the only relatable moment I could have.
And I totally felt Martin when he was like, are you 18?
She's like 22.
She's like same thing.
And I totally feel that in, in, like, as I talk about here, I'm a teacher.
Right.
Um, and I have all seniors this year and considering like when, when
they were born versus like when I graduated and that I'm starting to
get to that age range where it's like, well, this is 50 or 15 a me teaching.
So if freshmen are basically 14, 15, I'm starting to hit that age range of like,
I've been teaching longer than you've been alive, kind of, kind of age range.
And, and I was telling my seniors there.
I was just like, if your teachers in some way, think of you as
children, try not to get insulted.
I was like, because I work with people who are older than me.
That are, you know, that age wise, you are a child still,
they look at you in their notes.
Like you're their grandkids age.
You know, when I look at how old my oldest is in relation to you, two, you
guys, you're your kids still versus like 15 years ago when I first started
that there were the age gap was closer.
And so I that's what I just loved that interaction of just like, like you're a
kid and I have 22, it's the same thing.
Like I just, I just love that, you know, and I just, I always find it interesting.
Cause there's this weird moral question.
Um, it's not weird, but it's, it's what makes it weird is,
well, let me, let me backtrack.
It's it's not weird for the comic world.
Yeah.
But it's weird real life.
Okay.
And does like, should this happen?
And usually it's surrounded, but that manner.
Was Batman being irresponsible in having Robyn, right?
Like you're an adult and you have this kid and you're bringing this kid
up to basically be a crime fighter.
Like you, you know, was it, was he responsible?
Well, it's the same dynamic with Tony and Peter, right?
Like I have this guy and he goes back to Queens because the power set works
for his and what he needs to do.
But he's a high schooler, um, Kate Bishop, because, you know, you come from a family
of wealth, you're still in college and not in prison for destruction of property.
Like, you know, and it's it's so there is this moral thing of like, like
taking them under their wing and, and training them to be the next superhero.
That's messed up in the real world,
Trey: you know, I think it's always one of those things we'll bump up
into where you just kind of had to like, uh, it's a superhero world.
Cause we talked about it with Daredevil and how Matt was using his superhero
abilities to, in the courtroom to determine who is or isn't lying.
Jude: Yeah.
But at least with Clint, there's an element of, like you said, like we
titled the section reluctant teamwork.
He's like, you stay in the safe house, you do this, don't do that.
You know, this will be the last time we talked to each other, like, and
she's like, you haven't taught me anything yet, but just this, you know,
and you know, what about trickier?
I was, it was like chicken and it was, we're not going to talk to him like we're
done, I'm going to go see my family.
We're not at this point.
We are not friends, you know?
Um, you're not my ward, like, and so that, so that, that was really cool.
Part of the dynamic too.
Trey: So what you're saying is.
Clint is better than Batman.
Can we get you on the record with that?
Yes.
Okay.
So peek behind the curtains.
It is Thanksgiving today.
Well, we're recording and I got to meet up with brother Daniel and
we totally talked about how you angered him with the justice league.
Kate I'm.
This is I'm owning this family.
Daniel I'm prodding Jude to get you mad on this.
Jude: Well, I mean, let's be honest, like if, if it's a fight, like one V one
Batman and Hawkeye I'm kinda take Batman.
Oh, of course.
Right?
Like he hands down, love Hawkeye, you know what they're doing?
What they've done with him in the MCU.
But in terms of like that area of.
Like I'm doing this, and this is very much, I'm a shield agent.
This is my job.
And this is what I do that really resonates with me
that take on the character.
And so this idea of like, you're this 22 year old kid who just, you don't
understand what you're asking for and wanting to live this life, you know?
And, and you mentioned it before with Wanda is very clear.
Like you're here by choice.
If you walk out that door, This is what we do.
If you're not up for it, that's fine.
You don't have to be.
And so in that way, like, yeah, it, it feels better
than, um, he handles it better.
Trey: So you just sparked something I want to talk about
before I jump into my next point.
I don't know this for sure, but so much of what we're dealing
with with Clint here is key is a character that has lost hope before.
Like that is straight up the catalyst for why he became Ronan, why he was so
quick to sacrifice himself, our attempt to sacrifice himself an end game.
I wonder how much this keeping Kate at bay is residual feelings.
We don't know there's no text evidence, but I want to say it now, residual
feelings of potentially Wanda having taking her under his wing, kind of
maybe subtly and the ramifications of what have happened in Westview.
Like I wonder if that weighs in, on Clint at all.
Jude: You know what, I, I honestly didn't think you were going to take it that way.
I thought you were going to take.
The way of Natasha and Natasha's death.
The only
Trey: reason I went that way,
Jude: it's probably all I was going to say is it's probably a mix of both.
Yeah.
Trey: Yup.
Which I want to be clear here.
Cause it there's nuances to what has happened with Wanda and in west view.
But from what I imagine is just the public's perception
of what happened in west view.
I wonder how that factors into Clint psyche as well.
Yeah.
I
Jude: think they both have to, to some degree, you know, I feel like they're
going to, as a show, they're probably going to lean into black widow more is
as far as how that weighs on, on Clint.
But yeah, so that's but, but in reality, Which is weird, like to
say that, cause I know we're talking about inworld Clint and stuff.
They could go, they could have gone either way and still get
that out of this character.
Whichever whichever one they want to emphasize or find a way to
emphasize both, they could make this look at the Clint Martin character.
With going either way.
Trey: So shifting gears into a similar point in my preschooler thought that I
put on social media, I mentioned feeling clunkiness within these two episodes,
but a conversation about branding was something that really hit hard for me.
And to sum it up, there is a scene where Clint and Kate are walking
and they see somebody who's like, Hey, look, you're a superhero.
And they run past Clint and it's costume people dressed up in costumes.
And Kate says that his problem is branding to which he scoffs off and
talks about how like, oh yeah, you know, surely not selling costumes or toys.
What, what am I selling?
And she says inspiration.
And the reason that I like this so much is so often we talk about Clint
and Natasha as these characters who are the stand in for hope and
the face of insurmountable odds.
And again, Clint is a character who lost that.
He lost that feeling of hope.
Uh, he straight up says it don't give me hope and end game.
And so even though he has been given this second chance from Natasha too, as we
see, try and rekindle the relationship with his family and spend time with
them, that's 16 layers of protection that Kate is talking about is the
internal loss of, of hope within himself.
And so for Kate to come in, who is somebody that straight up wears
their heart on the sleeve, and even in things that they don't pull off
like the clock tower or later on in this episode where they fall through
the roof in the interrogation scene, they're being genuine and earnest.
Like they are almost in flappable with, there are unflappable, I
should say, with the energy that they go into every moment with.
And so to have them.
Butting heads like this.
It's it's I don't know.
It's it's a pull at wholesomeness that I wasn't expecting.
Jude: Yeah.
Well, and you know what I like he's brought that up because I'm, I'm working
on the assumption that Kate was not blipped and Barton was in his family
was and so he had Clinton wasn't no, no, no, no, no, no, you're right.
He wasn't, Barton was not, but his family was, is what I meant to say.
Well, glad you caught that.
Um, and, and so in other words, he had that experience of what
those five years was like.
And so it makes sense that at this point in going from the way, the,
especially with, uh, Monica Rambo and her experience of his, I think she's
the only character we've seen come back and wrestle with those ramifications.
Um, no we did with Sam and Sam.
Peter Parker.
Yeah.
Not in the same
Trey: way I get what you mean.
I get what you mean.
Jude: Cause we saw Monica Rambo come back and where it's like, one
minute she's gone and her mom's there and next minute it's not.
And so her experience is like no time had passed.
And so you get to see it in a very different way than you do from Peter say.
Um, and Bucky, if that makes sense, 100% makes sense.
And so go ahead.
Trey: I'm just wanting to say the blip is something that happened to them and they
moved on Monica Rambo shaped them, if that
Jude: makes sense.
Right.
You know, and, and again, the way we saw them to deal with it.
And so it makes sense that you start this series with him out with the kids.
Because there is a, you need the time to reconnect and you're only going to
do that with the quality time, you know, and it seems like they're playing on this
struggle of him trying to reconnect with the kids, if that makes sense, right?
Like, oh, I wish you were here and makes it easier.
And, and, and those types of things, but I'm sure that there
was a reconnect time as well that you needed with, um, his wife.
So, so her experience, I'm assuming Kate's not being blipped in him
having that experience, I think also has a huge impact on where he's at
mentally and, and how that relationship is, is developing and progress.
You know, cause like she, again, she sees this parasocial relationship, she
sees this or like something really cool.
And I get to go jump off buildings and do all this fun stuff that I've
been training for all my life, but she hasn't really faced consequences yet
of living this life the way Clint has.
Yeah.
That's
Trey: a really good way to put it.
It's just, it's just such a tragic setup of a character that he doesn't
view himself as inspirational.
And he is still providing it for other people and cannot feel it internally.
And that's man, there's, they're, they're doing a lot with
Clint so far in two episodes.
Jude: Yeah.
Like I really enjoyed these two shows and are these two, these
two episodes and I'm super eight, you know, it was disappointed.
I wanted to go into the third, you know, and it was weird
because watching all the other.
Disney plus shows.
I was very much in the camp of I'd like the slow burn,
rather than just a binge watch.
But like I got so into these two shows that I was like, oh, where's the next one.
I was like, oh, it's next Wednesday.
So, oh.
And I'm probably going to have to go back to waking up early
to watch it Wednesday mornings.
How come?
Um, my young.
Have soccer practice on Wednesdays.
So like it will be coming straight home from work, picking her up and
go taking her to soccer practice.
And in the fall, because of her broken arm, she missed
like a whole soccer season.
So like coming home and watching it on a Wednesday was no, no big deal, you
know, with the recording on Thursday, um, would, that's just going to push back
how long it takes me to watch an episode.
Oh, so, so yeah.
Anyways, well that's what coffees for.
I've had two cups before we did this episode, but okay.
Trey: Me too.
I promised I'd never do it.
And I always do
Jude: that's all right.
You know what, after it's, after having Thanksgiving dinner and like with
family and like, and I'm gonna just.
I don't know if this is going to be an intake.
Maybe it shouldn't be now that I said the word, Fred Daniel, or if it's an episode
you're editing with, like, I've seen episode two, two and a half times now
and a half, because like I was watching it after getting home from Thanksgiving,
visiting with family, wonderful Thanksgiving eating and all that stuff.
And I just crashed on the couch.
Trey: So yeah.
I completely forgot.
You didn't have notes, which makes the, so where do you want to start, dude?
So much funnier to me now in retrospect.
Jude: Yeah.
Like I supposed to be taking notes, but I'm just relying on the fact
that I've seen it multiple times and you know, we'll tell you what,
actually right now, my notes.
We are all stuff that like popped into my head while we were recording
episode one, that was like, oh cool.
I'm going to take that out.
Trey: I'll tell you what, let's go ahead and move into the next section.
And we'll start with me this time.
And this next section is LARPing.
So this is going to deal with all the scenes of Clint clearly and the
LARPing section, but as a fun play on the words when he was LARPing as
a firefighter, in an effort to get the suit back from Kate's apartment.
So starting with me, I just have a question.
How effectively could a person pull off what he did at that, at that
apartment scene, where he just dawned on the firefighter suit, like, do
they just not talk to each other?
How did nobody notice?
Jude: Um, my experience of a scene like
Trey: that breaking into an apartment that's been on fire, go ahead is
Jude: there's no way.
Um, you know, and I, and I'm mixing a couple of things, right?
Like, so there was once where not far from my house, my stepbrother got in a car
accident and step-mom called me all upset.
It wasn't far.
So I took off right.
To go see, and, and these cars were turning around.
Right.
And it kind of had like these cones.
And I went through the cones around the cones and I pulled over and I got out of
the car and the police officer was like, was like, Hey, you need to turn around.
I was like, yeah, my.
My brother was in that in before, after I got down even saying that
was, the accident was like, my brother was the driver, you know,
um, it was a head on collision.
And even before they're like, his next thing was, you take another step,
I'm going to put you under arrest.
Whoa.
And so like, it was like, and I stopped.
I was like, look, that was my brother.
Right.
You know?
Um, and so, yeah, and then like with my neighbor's house, um, last
March, uh, caught on fire and you had multiple fire trucks and stuff.
And just seeing how the setup was and the number of there wasn't like a police
line, but it was just like, there was no way I could have gotten to the truth.
Put on a jacket and a hat and strolled in with out somebody noticing.
So, um, so that's why I'm like, I don't think so, but he's Hawkeye.
Trey: Yeah.
And I want to clarify this.
Isn't just like being nitpicky of the episode and it made it worse.
It's just, it's so funny to me how smoothly he pulled that.
Jude: Right.
Well, and
Trey: Hey, I'll interject this because I praised it last episode with Kate.
So maybe it's a double standard that I'm not praising it here.
We have Hawkeye.
Jude: Well, there's a weird, the one weird thing that stood out to me about
this whole scene, which includes that was the portrayal of the firefighters.
And the police, um, like they would clearly had LARPing as something to
be made fun of, but they were also very explicit of like most of these
people are firefighters and cops.
Right.
And so you have this weird, like most of these people here are firefighters
and cops, but yet we're intentionally playing the scene for laughs.
You have a firefighter who stole from, uh, uh, a scene that they haven't yet
been able to determine investigative wise, if this is arson or not.
So like you're stealing from a potential crime scene at the point
that he was there, just cause there's a suit that looked cool for LARPing.
And then in the end of the scene, he's like, I don't get to be a hero.
Please let me win this.
And I'm like, that's a very different narrative than say something we
would've got 10 years ago, 15 years ago off still coming off of
first responders are our heroes.
And so that was something, well, I love the whole sequence, but that, you
know, and, and, and it, and it worked, but it was like, man, that, that was
something that really stood out to me.
That was a very different narrative of police officers and firefighters.
Trey: I changed my mind.
I am beginning to piggy back on that side.
I'm
Jude: Chrissy.
This is a little bit of like, well, there's for, for Barton to pull
this off, like it's believable.
Cause you're an Avenger, but there's also like.
And an aptitude on their part that he was able to pull it up.
Trey: Well, the thing that I'm at odds with is, and I just didn't put this
together and it's going to ruin a note.
I have later.
He's a huge thing that that person stole part of the crime scene
because like I got it like, oh, okay.
He made the connection, the LARPing, and then he found them online.
I was like, oh, how cool is it?
This is person that stumbled to the suit, but no, that was a person on the job.
So yeah, that is a little, that's a morally
objectionable.
Jude: Right.
And it's, and it's funny and it gets us to that sequence.
Um, so there is an element of.
A feeling of writing that it's like, so you didn't take this.
Yeah.
Like, well, it's like, yeah, clunky is a good word.
Cause it feels like, Hey, this would be a fun scene in a really cool scene.
The LARPing scene.
How do we get Clint there?
Okay.
The suit, how do we get the suit there?
Uh, you know what I mean?
And so in like the, like the device of getting the SIM separated
from the suit and it just.
You're right.
Clunky, you know, um, I love, again, I love the episode, but there were,
and I didn't think of it as clunky at the time, but it was like, there is a
very, as you said, kind of now clunky, now let's say that a little bit of
clunkiness to the, to the narrative.
Trey: It's writing to a moment and not letting it happen.
Like they, they have this in mind.
How do we get there?
Let's get there rather than like, what are the actions that would happen?
And so I think what this episode, again, what this episode has
going forward is the sincerity that it is wearing on its sleeve.
So I said it ruined my notes, but I'm going to go ahead and jump into it too.
Let's let's just pretend like the firefighter didn't steal an important
piece of the crime scene for this.
But, uh, you know, we talked about how Kate mentioned there, like 16 layers
of armor to get to cleanse heart.
And I appreciate how it took literally armor that Clint puts on to see the
heart finally come through, because even though he's putting on that, like,
ah, I really don't want to do this.
He's having a little bit of fun in that LARPing scene.
Like there are scenes where he's going in for like strikes and he's being
dramatic and he's getting into it.
And then he kind of stops himself again.
But he was in that moment of play that we saw something genuine come
out of him though, of just happiness.
And go
Jude: ahead.
Did you okay.
What I teach from that LARPing scene was, or no, th th what I teased about
the LARPing scene from our episode one for the pod was that I felt like this
scene was showing Clint's dad vibes.
Okay.
This whole willingness of like this, like, okay, this is ridiculous.
I don't want to do this, but I'm going to do it anyways for someone else.
And I'm going to pretend to like it.
Um, cause I mean, there's a number of things that I'm sure
my parents did and played with me that they were looking back.
It was like, they totally didn't enjoy themselves in terms of the
actual thing we were playing.
But the idea that they were playing with their kid was something they enjoyed,
you know, and parents experience that they're like, it's not what I want
to chose to play, but whatever you want to play, this you're my kid.
And it got that dad vibe feeling kind of like willingness to play by the rules.
And for your sake, I'm going to play by the rules.
You know, I'm doing this because I need that suit back so I can save Kate.
Now that Kate's mission is associated with the suit.
And so I just got these whole dad vibes out of that.
Trey: I really love that you brought that up.
Like that is a good catch in that feeling with Clint.
Yeah.
It's
Jude: it's like when the parent brings you, you know, from reference to eighties,
it's like how many parents really wanted to go to the new kids at the block
concert with their kids or, and then do in the late nineties, two thousands.
How many parents really wanted to go to the Backstreet boys and St.
Concerts with their kids and their kids loved it.
And they enjoy love being there with their, with their kids and seeing
their kids and having a good time.
But that might not have been their first choice of.
To go see,
Trey: I I'm immediately thinking of all the Pokemon movies my dad took me to.
Jude: Yeah.
That's what I got out of that scene.
Right.
Trey: That's really good.
Yeah.
I do have more to say almost in the opposite direction where I haven't fully
fleshed this out yet, but I'm trying to find more examples to bolster this.
As we go through this series, it's giving us a very civilian perspective of the MCU.
You know, last, last, last week, last episode was so uncanny with
the musical, but the LARPing.
Is again, this is where the point breaks down a little bit.
The LARPing feels even more special to me because grills frame it as like, this is
the closest I get to being a superhero.
Let me have this.
And it is that moment that Clint like goes along with it to like have that fantasy.
I guess I was trying to avoid that word because of LARPing, but it's
the only thing that comes to mind.
And so, because Clint services that desire to have that fantasy
of being a superhero, we see in turn, that grills keeps his word.
Like they could have easily gone down that cynical rabbit hole of
like, oh, he just wanted to win.
And then he takes off with a suit, but he shows, I was
like, Hey man, here's the suit.
And given everything that Kate was talking about with branding and about
how people don't want the cynical cool keeps to himself guy anymore,
this episode is I think is starting to make a statement about what it means
to be earnest in a cynical world.
Oh
Jude: yeah.
Yeah.
It's a great way to put it.
You know, cause he's, he's again, all struck.
We talked about this, how to, uh, how, how does the civilian
they'll just use it that way.
Um, interact with the superhero and Barton common Clint, you know, got the fist bump.
I can call you Clint.
Yeah.
Dude, call me Clint.
You know, and, and so yeah, it's, it's you're right.
I think that's a really good way to put it.
Trey: Yeah.
And I, and grills even gets him to admit, like you had fun high.
He's like, I'm glad I came.
So like it's, it's, it's special.
And maybe I've been watching a lot of Ted lasso, which is, which
has redefined wholesome for me.
And I'm not even going to try and put this on the same category of
that, but I am getting essence of that wholesomeness in this.
Jude: Yeah.
And so I can't comment to Ted lasso cause I haven't seen it.
Uh, it is something I'd like to see.
Um, it's has an issue with like subscription services and how many do
you actually want to pay for and rich reward of like, what am I paying for
and how much am I going to watch it?
Um, but there is, there is that wholesomeness of, you know, I really
hope, and again, I haven't read the article yet, um, and that critique, but
I started, I just off the headline, I'm seeing that, um, as a dad, I really hope
they're able to pull this thread through and that this is what really we're seeing
because there is an element of, one of my Chris' personal criticisms of media
in shows, um, is not having, uh, or misunderstanding maybe what a good male
role model is and how dads have been.
In particular.
Um, and, and honestly, the, one of the best examples for me is, um, from
the CW show arrow, Joe West, you know, you have strength, you have trust,
you have sacrifice, but he also, you know, does things that can lose trust.
Um, and he owns up to it and tries to, to regain it and make it right.
Um, you know, and so he's a kind of a complete character
there, uh, in, in that way.
And so I really hope that that's the thread they're going to pull through
and Parton cause it's, it's there and we're seeing that, you know, and so
much of being a dad is, is in a weird way, a choice, you know, and I mean,
you can say that'll be an, a mom too.
I get that, um,
Trey: being a parent.
Jude: Yeah.
Um, and again, it's, this gets a little.
You know, and I talked about it with Amity last year, cultural, like Western culture
and just the culture vibe that we've had.
Um, and the influences of, um, Judaism and Christianity, um, in Western culture
that has this whole God that intentionally chooses, you know, um, and, and talking
about God, his father and, and seeing that, that, that play out, you see that
in, in, um, in families and in particular fathers and, you know, in dads, um, and
I mean, you see it with, um, gun, right.
And guardians, the galaxy too, this whole distinction between
father and daddy and how much out.
Like, I might not have been your father, but I'm your daddy what's Yondu right.
And it was very much a, a choice, you know?
Um, and you get found family things as well.
Like we, this isn't a biological family, but this is the family
I've found and that's wonderful.
Like.
You know, but I, I, I really hope to see them pull that through the
rest of the way with, uh, part.
Trey: Yeah.
Well, I got one more thing I want to bring up here in this LARPing section and
I don't have too much to add other than I just love how Laura and Clint work.
I think they're very open and honest with each other.
And there is a clear implication, like you mentioned earlier that she
understands what happened with Ronan and it's something they talked about because
she calls it the problematic costume I believe, or, or something like that.
And she seems fine with it.
It's not something that's a revelation.
It's not something that she's holding against them.
It's just something that they have worked through.
And so there are little mini interactions with them within this episode that
are special and makes them feel like such a great couple on screen.
Jude: Yeah, I'll be honest.
I don't have a good thing to follow up on that.
Um, but I I'll say this I 100% agree with you.
Um, cause the thought that popped into my mind was yeah, and I
think LARPing would be fun.
I would love to try it.
I mean, it's, it's, it's Dungeons and dragons, but not
sitting at a table and dice.
I mean, I'm sure that might be dice and stuff involved, but it's
role-play but instead of like, you know, let me roll my hip die.
I'm actually going to hit you.
Trey: Remind me never to play D and D
Jude: I'm just saying, oh man.
Trey: I would definitely be a Clint in that, like, I would be grudgingly be in
there like, oh my God, this is whatever.
And then when I'm in there dragons, I know I have this, every, this conversation
with my friend too, like he's always held it against my head that I've,
I just don't have any interest in going into the Renaissance festival.
And it's just like, it's so much fun.
Yeah.
I like fantasy stuff, but I like it from the comfort of my screen.
I don't want to go actually pretending so much
Jude: fun.
It's so much fun, so much fun.
And my students will sometimes be like, you know, LARPing is like,
whatever, if I, if I could, if I told you, Hey, we're going to go Lark.
And the two teams are going to be the senior class and the
freshman class out on the football.
Yeah, totally would play.
And they're like, yeah, you're right.
You're like, yeah, you're right.
We would,
Trey: uh, I dunno, maybe, maybe I'm a fuddy-duddy, you know, th this now means
we've got to give us our podcast friends and all the friends of the podcast
together for a LARPing session someday.
Let's just start
Jude: with T and D I think, I think we'll work our way to LARPing
just cause we are in different areas of the country, Dungeons and
podcasts, Dungeons and podcasting.
Oh, well,
Trey: all right.
Getting back to the episode.
Uh, I think we can go ahead and move into the next section, which
is entitled fencing for the truth.
This section is going to be everything with Kate, as she is dealing with
Jack and her growing suspicion of him being the person who has murdered or
Mon the third, as well as getting used to him within her new family dynamic.
So Jude starting with you this time, uh, where would you like to start?
Jude: Let me scroll through my notes.
Take your time.
Um, well, I, I have one note here that, that I teased from the first
episode, but I don't know if this is the right place to put it.
So let me, let me, let me break this.
And a two notes cause you brought up, did Jack recognize Kate?
And if the answer's yes, that recontextualizes this whole scene for me.
Cause I don't cause my initial watches, I don't think he recognized her
and so that, you know what I mean?
Like, and so that changes, like his approach and his interactions with
her, um, in the fencing, in the actual light, I'm not trying to be like a
stepdad and let you win kind of thing.
Like I'm really being villainous toying with, you know, uh, I like the use of
the fencing and able to show the two of them already with the tension and combat,
but it's like, well, Hey, we know you're going to, I mean, we know how narratives
work, they're going to fight again.
Right?
Like, like he bested her in this secret.
You know, even though he fencing why she got points, he was letting
her, when she proved it with, I knew he was going to Perry and stuff.
So he's clearly skilled.
So we're going to see this again, because she now has to beat him and overcome this.
Um, if they don't do that, we're going to kind of, we'll be disappointed.
Cause it won't be that payoff.
Um, I think I'm talking myself into, he recognized her.
Okay.
So I just still, I'm not, I'm not sure like why yet we're suspicious of Jack to
this degree, you know, because, and, and again, I, but I resonate with Clint still
of like, you're at, you're still a kid.
You, you know what I mean?
And like, I know why from the stuff we watched and the shady stuff, I was
like, oh, the inheritance, I don't have the money, but I will get it.
And the stealing of the sor like I get all that.
Strictly from Kate Bishop's point of view, the motivation to follow suspicious
enough that I'm going to follow.
Like she followed her mom down and then Jack happened to be there as well.
You know what I mean?
And so that's why it's like, I don't, I don't feel like I've been
given sufficient information through Bishop's point of view to like, to
have that level of suspicion of Jack.
Trey: Well, I can read my note here and I want to preface it by saying I've cleaned
it up a bit, but I think the reason why we are supposed to be suspicious
of Jack instead turn eating grin like 100%, like he's got such a menacing
grin that it gets under your skin.
For some reason it gets under my skin.
For sure.
Jude: Yeah.
Well, and the casting is great because to me, he looks very similar
to her dad, but it's not her dad.
You know, and, and so I think that kind of builds this heightened tension that
there, that they're trying to use, that the, and it's a stereotype, um, you know,
some step parent relationships, step kids don't work really well, some too.
Um, you know, so the idea that like the step kids and step parents don't get
along, that's a stereotype and the show is more than welcome to play in that space.
But I think the casting of having someone that looks very similar to her
dad, but not her dad with the creepy smile and stuff, I think heightened.
That
Trey: suspicion.
And that's a Testament to Tony Dalton who plays Jack.
And I just want to say, like, he is phenomenal and better call Saul.
And so I'm very curious in what direction they will take him in.
And this he's been a bit awkward so far, but I think it goes to the tension that is
going on between Kate, Jack, and Eleanor.
So there's something here that is part of the mystery of
what we're seeing an unravel.
And I'm just going to put my money down.
And this is like, this is who I am as a person, because I am stubborn in that.
If something feels like it's supposed to be obvious, I'm going
to go in the other direction.
I'm going to put money Mo not actual money, uh, figurative money down that Jack
is not the villain that we think he is.
Um, and my reasoning being is I think there is genuineness when he, I
think it's genuine that he got goated into the fencing, not necessarily.
Because, oh, here he is trying to be a good stepdad.
I think it was this like, all right, you a little tore up.
I'll I'll play into this.
And then like the, the trying to fit in stepdad kicked in when he let her win.
But if he was trying to be low key, I don't think he does that.
And so I think there is some genuine aspects of him
trying in that fencing scene.
Well, it's
Jude: hard to hell right now of, cause they're, they're playing
into the whole trying to hard bit with this character, right?
Yeah.
Right.
I bought a book.
No, no, no.
It's okay.
And kind of explained her actions for the book or even beforehand
it's, you know, it's okay.
I'll have that moment in time.
Time will heal all wounds kind of kinda kind of thing.
And it's like that creates this tension and suspicion of this person.
Cause they're trying too hard.
Um, but you can also play the trying too hard and you're just like, Aw,
you're just a bumbling idiot, you know?
Cause you're trying too hard.
And so it, and it's right now, I'm reading it from the suspicion standpoint and
you kind of want to read it that way.
Um, but again, that can be one big misdirect.
They got their hooks in this dumping.
Well, they, well, they do cause again, what you know about
narrative and storytelling, right?
That's starts to come into play of like, again, my thought, uh,
God was show me eight episodes.
Cause I know there's four episodes left.
Yeah.
And if I take six episodes and pair them up into pairs and I start thinking about
narrative storytelling and thinking about the story circle or the hero's
journey, whichever is your preference, you know, to have a well-developed villain,
they need to be introduced fairly.
Um, you know, and they don't have go back to the Netflix Daredevil with
10 episodes or 13 episodes, right?
12, 12, okay.
12 episodes.
They have an episode to spend on a whole flashback episode.
Two, his training was stick to his relationship with his mini Matt
Murdock relationship with foggy a whole flashback episode on just Wilson, Fisk.
You know what 12 episodes, that's three right there, mid season, mid middle end
to season that, that you're getting these, these, the backstory filled in that.
You're just, you don't get with six episodes.
We have direction.
Yeah, go ahead.
Finish your thought.
No, I'm just saying, so you have to have that efficiency and to have a good,
compelling villain, which, you know, the in complicated villain, you have to have
time to develop that a little bit as well.
And that's the other thing of like, oh, it has to be him.
It has
Trey: to be so slight correction.
I looked it up, there were 13 episodes.
I was wrong.
I only thought there was 12 because I hate the stick episode that much.
Jude: Wow.
Trey: I thought I'd get a
Jude: laugh.
Wow.
Trey: The stick
Jude: was the original truck.
It was, it was like, and I get it.
Like to me, I look at it.
It was like, they did a really good job.
You weren't supposed to like, stick, like, like they, they, they did what they
set out to do mission accomplished, but yeah, I mean, cause you hated stick and.
I have different feelings about that episode after our,
our pod reviews of those, I'll
Trey: never forgive that beer can trick shot.
Ooh, well, we're, we're moving along here and just to kind of set expectations here.
Normally we do have a little bit lengthier episodes, but given that we've tackled two
episodes in one week, uh, we are moving right along, which is going to take us
to our next important topic, which is titled tracksuit mafia interrogation.
This section is essentially going to deal with the remaining action sequence.
At the end.
Once the tracksuit mafia has gotten a hold of Hawkeye.
Basically anything to do with them within this episode is going
to be the focus of this section.
So starting with me, uh, there's this show on HBO called Barry and a character
by the name of NoHo, Hank, who is very similar to the tracksuit mafia in that
they are a gang, but they are very comical in the way they get things done.
But the underlying point is they get things done.
So I am enjoying this blend of how they're both comedic of fact,
but still pretty intimidating.
If, if at least that's the pickup that I'm getting from them.
I do remember the last episode you've mentioned you wouldn't,
you wouldn't put them as capable of pulling off a heist though.
So I am curious to see if you have any rebuttals,
Jude: not in, cause it just felt like they were used as like comic relief, right?
So like he's tied up and he gets out, um, he has that line where it.
Uh, like, I feel like I'm talking to furniture, I'd like to see your manager.
So like he's clearly not under any kind of threat.
Like it's a catch and release plan, as it said, he was like,
come on, let's just get this over.
Um, oh, my favorite guys.
I can, I can see through the bag.
Yeah.
So it has the head on the back.
And so it's like, so I feel like we weren't clearly in those interactions,
like he caught one of their multiple of cough pills and threw it back.
And you had that interaction with the pizza shop owner at the, at the bottom.
Like they just, they, they were intentionally, they were
intentionally portrayed as incumbent.
And so that's why I'm looking at that.
I'm like, there's just no way they were doing the, the highest.
And you're probably right.
They probably were the same, because again, it's a, it's an ease and
efficiency and you spent a lot of time introducing the tracksuit mafia.
Um, but overall I'm just like, I just don't feel confident enough to do that.
Yeah.
Trey: So I, I, it's funny that I get that feeling because this was a note I pulled
up from earlier in my notes down to here.
And now that we're here in my notes, I also wrote, I love how Clint is in
control of this situation the entire time.
And that it feels contradicting in that I am feeling like, oh, these are
people who get done, but you were also right in that they are displayed as
incompetent, but it's, I am of the belief.
They were pulling off the high.
So they got that done.
They are caught off guard when Hawkeye is revealed to be in control, but they
do get him back under control with Kate as they have them both tied down again.
So it is this push and pull between them being comedy and serious.
The show Barry found a way to make that work.
I guess the question is will Hawkeye be able to make this work through
the series if this is where they want to take them moving forward.
And the other thing I want to add to it is if they're not going to be this blend
of comedy and competency, it is a pretty good, my first mafia for Kate as her being
like the, the, the hero in training here,
Jude: that's this whole time, right?
Like following the video game model.
Yeah.
You level up, right?
Like, like you, you're going to learn how to do this.
Against, you know, or Dungeons and dragons, right?
You start out at a level one, you work your way up to level
two and you fight harder.
Bad guys are, you know, it's always interesting.
It's bad guys.
It's never bad girls.
Um, and that always brings the Brad girls brings such a different connotation, um,
which is a whole world of CA you know, can of worms that we're not going to
get into because it's so problematic.
But anyways, I really think I need to get an ADHD medicine.
Um,
but yeah, right there is this leveling up that we're seeing Kate Bishop go
through and the incompetent track mafia, unfortunately, you know,
like, I mean, seriously, like you really think Kate Bishop was Ronan.
Like you've had a run in with Ronan already from what we understand.
And this Ronin ran from you and tried to get away in the.
You think Ronan was really going to do that, but you're
convinced Kate Bishop was Ronan.
Come on, like Kate Bishop, just beat you up.
Didn't chop you down with a sword.
Like they, all of a sudden Ronan just changes as emo.
No.
Trey: Well, I mean, Ronan quote-unquote as now out there
beating up people with a scarf.
So,
Jude: so yeah, so it's their incompetent.
Trey: Well, you know what we need to do, we need to set up a tally for
competency and comedy and see which tally has more by the end of the series.
Jude: Yeah.
Yeah.
And I can sometimes play in competence for comedy, but I don't think that that's
an, and you had that here, but I don't think that that's what they were doing.
I think that they needed a group or a villain because what you have what
Ronan did, but you don't want it to be.
Again, skill level at such that they're going to get bogged down
with this group because they need to move on with the story.
Trey: So in essence, the, my first month.
As Fisher price.
So we got one more thing to tackle before we move into stray thoughts.
And that is the buildup to the moment where after Clint and Kate have been
apprehended, once more in tied down, they have this ominous buildup to
somebody who wants to meet them.
And we go into a room that is all red and a woman who is listening to
music in a very loud, uh, volume and is communicating, I think would sign
language because the person that comes and gets her only half does it.
And then she just kinda like shoots him away.
So there feels like they're hinting at something there, but this feels
like a pretty big character, uh, that gets introduced here in this episode.
Jude: So, okay.
We don't know who this person is yet.
Right?
We
Trey: don't, but in the credits it says their name and that is how I know
Jude: what.
Maya Maya.
Okay.
So that's, that's what I thought.
The Maya is Maya Lopez echo.
Yes.
And I know echo is getting us the spinoff.
Right.
And so that that's the other thing is of like, this feels like a fill-in,
but with the announced spinoff of echo, is it like a villain who's going to
no longer be villainous at the end?
Or are they pre expecting us to like, love this anti villain?
I don't even like to use that term, maybe more of this quasi I villain like low-key
and like, we know you're going to love this character so much that you're gonna
want to see a villain with its own show.
Yeah.
Like, like, I I'm, I'm really curious of, of which way they're
playing that because that's clearly the vibe they got like, okay.
You know, oh, here's the big, bad.
Um, but again, it's.
It's not
Trey: clear.
Yeah.
And again, and this is all external knowledge, given the
one name Maya from the credits.
So, you know, there's a, there's still there.
It's something we're going to delve into next episode.
I'm assuming, because you can't leave it on that without revisiting her.
Um, it's just, it was an interesting build-up to that character that
I felt like we needed to at least talk about a little bit.
Oh
Jude: yeah.
Yeah.
Well, I mean, they, they left her sear for a reason.
Um, you know, we're, you know, we're going to come back to this.
Uh, we have the big announcement of echo.
Like we knew echo was going to show up in this series.
So, so, yeah.
So now I'm just curious of which way they're going to take this.
Trey: Hmm.
Well, I think that's going to wrap up this section for us.
Like I said, we are moving at a bit of a fast pace just because two
weeks need two episodes in one week.
Uh, but let's go ahead and move into our stray thoughts.
So, Jude, do you have any stray thoughts for this episode?
Jude: Um, Shree thoughts.
I have one overarching stray thought and it's, uh, we get to learn more about Kate.
You know, like this time she successfully picks the lock.
Uh, she was resourceful and buzzing and doing the pizza to get in.
Um, but there is this element of like, you know, we have the scene that we
didn't talk about with the police calling and she's like, You know, and
normally it's scripture written of like, can I, I'm going to ask what is
this pertaining to officer or whatever.
And she's like, I don't know how this works.
Can I ask what this pertaining to?
In other words, it is like the age range of that in college, about to
be out of college ish 22 year old.
I think they're doing a really good job of portraying that this,
the sense of confidence yet.
And some wisdom and the things that she said to, to Barton about branding and
not wearing his heart on his sleeve.
So you get both like this confidence, this wisdom, but also like, you
really don't know what's going on.
Cause you're still young, um, you know, to bring guns.
Yeah.
Like, you know, and it's just like, Uh, getting in and over your head.
Cause I mean, not on the scale, but whatever I was in my early twenties once,
and I remember getting it over my head of things and I remember that and then,
and those types of things, and I just feel like they're portraying that very
well, because that is something like I liked about the Spider-Man movies of like,
there's a lot of things they did that, that I'm like, oh, that's what the high
schoolers would have done completely.
You know, whereas the others are like, that's not how high schoolers act and that
actors 30, like, you know, and, and so I do that is something that I feel like I'm.
They're getting, I don't wanna say.
Right, but they're, they're definitely in the ballpark.
Trey: It's authentic.
Yes.
And that is a credit to Hailee Steinfeld, which I don't think
we have talked about enough.
We've talked about Kate, but I don't think we've talked
about how great she is in this
Jude: role.
Yeah.
Oh, this like stupid, wonderful.
It's going to be like, I can't wait to see her interaction with shonky and yeah.
I want to see her interaction with yeah.
Like, and I, I want to see her interaction with Yulaina because they relatively,
I would argue that have the same skill set, but Elena is probably more skilled
and, and they both have their view of the Avengers in a particular light where one's
kind of this hero worship and one's not, you know, And well, not a hero worship
of, of what you did, but it's like, it's a sibling kind of thing, especially a new
found respect to the unit black widow.
So yeah.
So seeing that interaction will be, I can't wait for, yeah.
I
Trey: think you just got me really excited about that potential interaction
that that would work really well.
And we may get it before, sooner than we
Jude: realize.
And unfortunately it's only going to be four more episodes in a six month.
Trey: What's so funny to me is when you wrote your preschooler thought of like,
I'm already dreading needing two more episodes, it came across as like very
down on the episode, but hearing you get so excited about it here in the episode,
it just makes it sound so much different.
Jude: Yeah.
Well, it's, it's just one of those things where it's just like, for some reason,
right now they're married to the idea of like, we're going to do six hours
and cut it up and it's like a movie.
And it was like, no, just embrace the TV format because it works.
It's probably budget.
And you know that the whole forest Gump running scene almost didn't
make the movie because of budget.
And they found a way to make it work that whole sequence.
So like, okay.
I get budget, but me and let's put the story first and this, these stories
need eight episodes at least to
Trey: quote your, your wisdom.
That's what I call job security with more episodes.
So, uh, my straight thoughts, uh, you mentioned it earlier.
I just want to say it again, catching the Molotov cocktail is one thing, but
Clint breaking the glass first and then catching it is a pro move and it may be
so happy to see him do that a second.
I think
that's right.
And he fought the Sonos if by
Jude: fighting Daniel and he made, I was going to say by that comment
that he made before LARPing and he's like, he's like, and I fought then us.
And then he had, and then he like, lets the guy kill him.
Like I was fantastic.
Trey: So good.
Uh, this, this is maybe prediction out of prediction.
I'll keep it straight thoughts.
I'm going to make a bet.
Now we get a reference to pizza.
Every episode, this season, we've gotten it twice so far, and I feel
good about this because with pizza dog, that field, which we haven't even
discussed, pizza dog at all, um, I'm going to say this because this is Disney.
I feel really bad about this because this is Disney.
Whenever they release the character poster for pizza dog,
I thought the dog was winking.
I thought they were doing their Disney thing.
Oh, here's a cute animal.
And that's not the case.
It is a one eyed dog.
And I feel so bad that I didn't realize that on the character
Jude: poster.
I I'm going to forgive you on that because that is a Disney thing to do.
Right.
I thought that's what they were doing.
And I haven't, I haven't read the comics yet.
Um, and I truly mean yet.
I plan on going through.
But I do know.
I think I know that the dog is important dynamic.
Okay.
And so like, this is like, I'm sure friend, Daniel's like nodding his
head, you got to read this and TK and the dog is so amazing, you know?
And so, and the comics,
Trey: the dog wore the gauntlet.
Jude: I know.
Right.
Like, so yeah.
So, so that's, so I think I'm just not connecting to the dog
cause I haven't read the comics.
Um, and honestly I just see a sandwich stealer.
Hey, Earl of sandwiches.
That's right.
Trey: All right.
Two quick, straight thoughts.
Uh, one hot guys allergic to cats.
That's fun to know just canonically uh, to, instead of getting the opening credit
sequences, it looks like we're going to be getting the, uh, credit sequences
with all the cool animations at the end.
Now really love the shot with all the Christmas lights, where it is one
singular purple bulb, surrounded by red bulbs that are cracking very, very cool.
Jude: Yes.
I love that.
They intentionally made.
Hey, Christmas holiday,
Trey: Phil.
I do too.
And I know I'm going to catch flack for this.
I'm going to catch flack for this for saying that all Christmas things
are the same, all Christmas movies.
It'll be fun to see where this plays out by the end of it.
Jude: Oh yeah.
So.
Trey: Well, those were our stray thoughts, but as we've been doing, uh,
since what if we really like hearing what you thought of the episode?
So since we put our priest, one of the thoughts out on social
media, we've got a few replies with people's first takes as well.
So we're going to read through some of those and comment on them now.
So starting with this one, uh, this one comes in from kin on Twitter,
and it says, agree with Trey about clunkiness, but definitely works best
when Kate and Clint are together.
I don't think it's clicked yet for me, but I'll give it a
chance to develop and grow on me.
Still want a full version of Rogers, the musical, and, uh, I'm right
there with the kids I I'm into, even though I said, it's like disturbing,
I, I, listen, I watched squid game.
I can use some, a disturbing, so
Jude: I have not watched good game, but I am definitely
hitting on the Rogers musical.
Let's see who else we have.
We have from just Mr.
Melt on Twitter.
These episodes.
Absolute delight.
I can't wait for the next one to be released.
And I'm with you.
Like as soon as the second episode was over, I'm like, oh
my gosh, I want to see the third.
Yeah.
Trey: Uh, this next one comes in from Ben Mattie on Insta and it
says I loved how grounded it was.
Haley was amazing.
And Maya's entrance was so cool.
Um, yeah, like we said, it, it took us too long to get to it.
Hailee Steinfeld is amazing.
Maya definitely has a very noteworthy interest entrance as
Jude: well.
So real quick, I was going to say Instagram, is that, am I like showing
age here saying Instagram over.
My favorite
Trey: thing about this it's really Schrodinger's age.
I don't know if I'm showing my age by shortening it to Insta.
I don't
Jude: know if it's okay.
Okay.
Um, you know, take your pick.
Alright.
So TK on Instagram, I love how much it feels like a TV show.
And I mean that in the best possible way.
And I already feel like I understand Clint's so much better as a character.
I completely agree with her on the character.
Um, and the, the feel of the TV show.
It, it has that.
We talk about the AB cadence in a negative light a lot of times, but
I think that's part of what makes these shows work as a long form show.
Is that AB cadence, um, especially did that with Daredevil.
Uh, the difference being is Netflix putting everything out at once
versus having to watch it one week at a time, which I enjoy because
it stretches the joy mint out.
I have the episode, episode conversations.
Uh, with people which adds to me, for me, adds to the enjoyment of the show.
But again, it would that cadence it's like, uh, you know, go back to just Mr.
Milk.
Yeah.
Give me the next one now.
So yeah, I do
Trey: want to add I'm I love that TK is mentioning how they understand
clit so much better as a character.
I would love if by the end of this, that is a complete 180, because if I'm not
mistaken and, and they've, they've openly admitted it too on their show, how Clint
was never their favorite Avenger, if this ends up being a complete 180 for them.
Cause I know like, uh, 15 minutes of Marvel is also on that same,
like, oh, I don't like Hawkeye.
And I'm curious to see how they are receiving him after this.
Well,
Jude: it has to be, it has to, that's
Trey: almost the, the directive of the, uh, the series,
Jude: the director of the series, but like with, with TK being such
a black widow, Natasha Romanov fan to truly take her understanding of
that character, to the next level.
You got to understand Clint cause they were best friends.
Trey: Hmm.
Yeah.
Uh, moving along, we got one more first take, uh, this one comes in from none
other than friend Daniel on Insta.
And it says they adapted great elements from the comics while offering
a fresh, funny, emotional take.
And it, again, we mentioned it last episode.
I love how much fun Daniel and TK have been hyping up.
Matt fraction's run of Hawkeye and it is going to be fun seeing their
infectious excitement about this as we move through the series.
Jude: Oh yeah, absolutely.
Trey: Yeah.
So like we said, this was our listeners first takes, these are
people who reply to us on Instagram, Twitter, or even in our discord.
So if you are keeping along with our episodes and want to chime in with
what you thought of the episode, make sure you're looking for our preschooler
thoughts and replying to those.
So.
We're going to do something we haven't done since Loki, which is predictions.
And I'm so excited to bring this back.
Jude, do you have any predictions for episode?
Jude: All right.
I've been teasing them from episode one.
Uh, these are more show predictions and episode three predictions, but
I, well, one of them's more show prediction that is sure to go wrong.
And the other one we might find out in episode three.
So let's do this, the episode, we, the prediction that I'm going to say.
Yes, you're right.
That Jack recognized Kate, because he offered the butterscotch.
I think that was.
To like, I'm letting you know that I know by offering the butterscotch.
Um, and she has some training left to do.
She didn't do a really good job of hiding how uncomfortable that was,
uh, and getting out of that situation.
Um, but yeah, so like I definitely there, so I think we're going to find that out.
Uh, the next episode prediction, we kept wondering, you know, who got the
items for the auction who got the item for the auction, you know, these should
be with, you know, the department of the damage control, the power broker.
Yep.
That's what
Trey: I was going to say that until you said I'll save the prediction
and so I'm glad you got to it.
Jude: Yeah.
Yeah.
Because it's just, who has the access, um, and who is already
doing those kinds of things.
It's the PowerBroker has to be
Trey: the, the only thing that keeps me for being full-throated
about that what's the PowerBroker doing with a skull of a dinosaur.
Jude: Well, I don't know if the power broker provided the skull, but
the calm, the, cause the Avengers compound stuff though, for sure.
I think came from the power broker.
I agree with that.
Cause, cause like the auction house, right?
It's just an underground black market auction house and you know,
where do I take my black marketed stolen goods to be fenced off?
Right.
Well, I'm going to go to this place because that's what they do.
Um, so it though the skull doesn't have to come from the same.
Trey: Well, cool.
I think those are a very good predictions.
Yeah.
Okay.
I was trying to, I couldn't remember if you said you had more than
Jude: that.
No, that's it.
That's it that's it.
I, I have my, you know, my series one and my
Trey: all right, well, cool.
You know what?
I'm going to follow suit and I'm going to start with my episode three prediction,
which I'll admit is a pretty tame one, but we're still early on in the season.
So it's kind of hard to predict what's coming next.
But I think next episode, we get the Ronin revelation, whether it's through
Kate finding out or Clint's kids finding out, which I think will also be a very
emotional moment since they don't know, despite their mom and dad knowing.
And as for, yeah, as for the series revelation series revelation for this
series prediction, I'm calling it.
The final action set piece will end with whatever huge dramatic stakes are
happening, culminating to Clint with all his talk, or Kate's talk about branding
and being out there and being sincere.
We'll end with Hawkeye stumbling into Rogers, the musical, and taking the
place of ant man eat like accidentally.
Like it's just like whatever action piece is happening.
He ends up on stage during, at man's moment.
And that's his like victory lap of like, it's me, it's Clint.
And I'm the hero
Jude: that I hope that happens.
Yeah.
That I have this
Trey: feeling and it it'll be brief.
It'll be like, he runs on stage like, oh, I didn't know that was going.
And then runs off and continues with the
Jude: fight scenes.
Yeah.
Well, that's the thing though.
Like to the degree they went with.
I have a hard time believing that that's the only time we we see.
Trey: So they're going to get their mileage out
Jude: of it for sure as they should.
Trey: Well, there you have it.
We've got our predictions in the books now, but we want to know.
What are your predictions for episode three or the series itself?
And while you're at it, let us know what you thought about these episodes as a,
well, you can always do that by reaching out to us on social media at MC you
need to know on Twitter and Instagram, it is a great place to interact with
whatever we thought about the episode, as well as getting some extra content
that does not necessarily make it into the final cut of this episode.
So if that sounds interesting to you and you want to help support their
show, go ahead and give us a follow.
And, uh, yeah, we'll see you
Jude: there.
Yeah, of course.
It's always scroll down to the bottom, click on the link and join our discord.
It's a wonderful community, interested in all kinds of things.
In particular, the MCU, uh, interact with us friend, Daniel
Leach sometimes hangs around.
Um, I seen Rob Logan in there, all kinds of things.
Um, once you're there, make sure you go to the role, assign, click on the emoji,
have access to all the spoiler channels.
And since you're listening to this episode and enjoying what you hear,
be sure to share that joy with others during this holiday season,
by sharing the episode with a friend.
Trey: Yeah.
We'd also like to thank Nick Sandy for the use of our theme song, which is
his rendition of the Avengers theme.
You can find more of his work on a SoundCloud, which is linked
in the show notes as well.
Well, that's going to do it.
Thank you so much for listening and Jude.
Thank you so much for doing this.
Thank you tray.
We'll see you all next week.
This section is essentially going to deal with the remaining action sequence.
At the end, once the tracksuit mafia has gotten a hold of Hawkeye,
but basically anything to do with them within this episode is going
to be the focus of this section.
So starting with me, uh, I just got to say, there's this show
called Berry on ed, on SBO.
What was that?
Oh man.
All right, let me try over.
Jude: I believe there was just,
Trey: uh, how do you spell that?
The, what I said, how do you spell
Jude: a C H E.
Trey: That will never take off.
It's ridiculous.
Sort of called it like Amazon prime or something.
Jude: It's the chess sound.
It was along a cha B.
So there's a B and two E's.
Oh, the O is the O is a Val is okay.
It's like, it's like, if you're going to write it phonetically, I
think there's just a line over it because you just say the letter.
Oh, okay.
Trey: You're done.
Yeah.
Jude: Like there's nothing more.
It's just, it's just, that's how you spell it,
Trey: HBO.
All right.
Let me start over.
Okay.