Unknown: Saw all right, buddy, we're rolling whenever you're
ready. Yes, we are back with another edition of circling the
drain. I'm Jay Harper, but the leader of the captain of the
ship, so to speak, Johnny B is is here. Of course, Fear not. I
mean, just because you see my face first is no reason to
panic. Johnny is here.
We're not gonna panic, Jay, you're a good looking cat. Man,
come on. Well, thank you girls. Dig here. I love you too.
Well, man, great to see you. Jim, great to see you. And of
course, we have, who else will you toss it to now?
Well, I'll toss it because it is baseball season, correct? Yep,
yes, we got Jim McCarthy, who runs this ship offsetting the
beauty?
Yes, well, don't about that. Well, I tell you no
handsomeness. I am always excited to get together with you
fellas, but I'm especially excited today to welcome a guest
that's a guy that I have looked up to for a long time, a true,
pro, real man's man that, of course, would be Benny Ray.
Shipley, Benny Yes. Benny Ray, joining us here. Yeah. Benny
Ray, yeah, yeah. I mean, during the the Benny and the Jets days,
did you get any mileage? Yeah.
Well, I when I meet someone for the first time, whether it be a
celebrity or a listener, they would always say, I introduce
myself. Oh, like Benny and the Jets. Actually, Benny was a
girl, b e n n, right, right. B e n n i e or I'd get Benny Hill.
Oh yeah, I
Yeah, and, and
when I introduced myself, we saw like Benny Hill. And I probably
got more Benny Hill than Benny in that time, but now it's more
like Benny.
Well, Benny is man, as I say, a guy that I've looked up to for
for many, many years, a radio Pro that has been through the
wars, a voice over veteran. I mean, you've done all these
national spots and stuff, but man, you come from real humble
beginnings in small town, Kentucky, and Johnny and I and
Jim. You know, we were all kind of kids when we got into radio,
but man, you were indeed a kid when you started right. So tell
us about that. Scottsville, Kentucky, right?
1965 I was 15,
and I worked at W, L, C, K for a couple of years, and then I was
still in high school, and I worked there on the weekends,
afternoons and weekends, and no one really paid any attention to
it, because, well, it was local. And then I got a job during the
summer of 67 at wcds, which was the Rock and Roll station in
high school. Yeah, and, man, when I went back to school, I
was popular. All of a sudden, I got elected to these offices,
you know, like vice president of some club, or president of this
club, or their journal journalism club or whatever. And
I thought, I'm the same person as I was before. All of a
sudden, it was like, Oh, you work at wcds. The kids love
wcds, and I loved working there. I was there eight years before
coming to Nashville. Oh, wow,
at 15 years of age, though. I mean, how did you get that gig?
Did you did you know somebody? Or did you just walk in and say,
hey, I want to work here. Were you one of those geeks that just
kind of hung around the station and they finally hired you.
Well, what happened a cousin of mine, the first cousin was
president of the Elvis Presley fan club, and they met once a
week on wlck, and it was kind of in contrast to the Beatles they
must say, Well, you know, the office is the king, so they had
a fan club. And so she got to know the manager of the radio
station there, and she knew I was interested in radio, so she
introduced me to it, and said, Well, my cousin just loves
radio. He really like come up and meet you and just watch. And
so luckily, being a small town radio station, they they have a
need for people to sit in. And so I studied to get my third
class radio telephone operators, yeah, back in the day when you
needed that right element nine broadcast endorsement. And
finally, hung around long enough that they put me on the air, and
I made $1.25 an hour, which I guess was a lot of money,
at least from radio. I
called Man, I've got money now. I went in, the first thing I
bought was a color television. Oh, wow. And. I was just
thrilled. But, and then a stereo after that, you think I'd have
gotten the stereo first, right? The television came first. I had
to see color. You know, the first, the first show I watched
in color was Gun Smoke. And it was great to see, you know, the
colors James aren't his shirt and and when someone got shot,
you actually saw red. And so that was, that was thrilling. Of
course, I was, you know, 1616, years old time,
yeah, but, but, man, you were rolling in the dough. Yeah. You
were Mr. Popular there, at least when you got to Glasgow.
In Glasgow, yeah. And that was a part time gig for until I got
out of high school and hired me full time. The guy that owned
the station, Johnny barrack, was such a wonderful person to work
with, and his kids would come over and help answer the phones
and things like that, and it was a great learning ground, because
he let me do anything I wanted on the air, as long as long as
he kept it clean, he was fine with it. But then I back in
those days, it seemed like disc jockeys wanted to hop around and
said, the more radio stations you work for, the bigger you
are, you know, the better. But I always thought
maybe I needed to do that. But
Ted Johnson, who was Assistant Program Director of WSM at the
time, had worked at wbgn in Bowling Green, and he had heard
me on the radio. I'd heard him on the radio, and then when he
found out I was kind of looking he offered me a job at WSM to
this was 1974 and that was to work with Harold Hensley, the
great Harold Hensley, yeah, he was, oh my gosh, I can think of
a better person to have worked with than Harold Hensley. Now,
if I said the great Harold Hensley in front of him, he was,
there's nothing great about me, you know, and that's what was
very charming. But he was a big cut up. He would pull pranks on
you. It was just hilarious, hilarious. And what I did, I was
like, his side gig, okay, yeah, you know. And I would answer the
phones. I would go let the guest in, and then I would do his
headline news, and every time, well, not every time, but a few
times, I'd go into the little room with which studio, WSM
studio, right through the next door was the UPI AP room, and of
course, he was insulated with sound, So I'd go in there and
start pulling the headlines, and he'd start the theme, and I
would just, I'd have a long piece of paper. He started the
news theme, and I had to run back in and
try to read, try to Yeah, decipher all that stuff. Yeah,
back in the days with the UPI and the AP machine and the Bing,
bing, bing, whenever breaking news would would happen. So how
old were you when? When you jumped over to WSN, 70?
I was 24 Okay, yeah, yeah. So I was old man by then.
Well, man, but you know that? I mean, come on, that's quite a
jump, that that's a real, that's a real testament to your talent.
I mean, you don't normally go from, you know, all due respect,
to Glasgow, but from Glasgow to WSM I mean, you had to really
be, really be proud about that.
I was in awe of everyone that worked there. And I'd sit there
and say, What am I doing here? How did I get through the door?
And when Ralph Embry or somebody like that would walk in while I
was on the air, I would just play songs back to back. I
didn't I thought, if I open my mouth, they'll find me out. But
no, I was humbled, and I was in awe of the people I've worked
with, legends, and I'm thinking, How did I get really, literally,
how did I get here, right?
I can only imagine now you and I met via your wife at the time,
who was Sheila Shipley. She was my boss at at MCA. Did did
Sheila? Were you two involved before you came here. I mean,
she's too She too was from Scottsville, right?
We were childhood sweethearts. Yeah, I met her when I was 15.
Oh, wow. And we got married in 1969, I was 19, and, yeah, she
was couple years younger than me, right, right? And then, of
course, we had a son Three years later, and then I got a job at
WSM, and that was such a big change. Oh, I can imagine used
to, yeah, it was like, I guess if you're a pilot and you're
flying a small cub around, then you jump in the seat of seven.
47 Oh my gosh. It's like flying 747. When you're sitting on
50,000 watt Clear Channel, right? And it's, it's mighty
powerful feeling. And you feel good, sure, I would really want
to do the job.
Did you feel some kind of, I would think you had to deal with
some culture shock. You come into the big city, and then
coming face to face with country music superstars and whatnot
that would come in to the radio station. I mean, what was that
adjustment like?
Well, luckily, did not happen all at once. I would meet some
famous people a little at a time. And back in those days, if
a star wanted to be on Harold's show, you know, Ralph Emery did
that show for a long time, they would take a little pebble in
and hit the window, which we could look down in the parking
lot. And so if you heard a pebble hit the window, you have
to look out and see who's there. Wow. And then they come around
back, which was right down the steps, and they put a like a
intercom doorbell. And then they started using that now one
night, yeah, time that I refused to do something with Harold, I
felt so bad about it. Wayland, Jennings, Willie Nelson, Chris
Christopherson, had been out partying, and so they decided
they wanted to come up and be on with Harold. But they were, you
know, and so Harold said, well, Willie Nelson and Waylon,
Jennings and Chris Christopher's down, they want to come up so
you tell them I can't have them tonight. Listen, you want me to
go down and tell Wayland Jennings, no, you can't make it
tonight. I'm not going to so they finally got on the security
guard just to tell them they were really mad. Oh yeah, but
no, Harold was great to work with us. The only time I said
I'm not going, but those lot of fun nights, I mean, I got to
know Marty Robbins, oh, he would come by a lot and bring his
guitar and sing it, thinking I'm sitting right beside Marty
Robbins, there he was with his daughter, and I'm hearing him
this close. I'm not having to hear him through a speaker or
radio. And there he is, that beautiful voice.
Oh, wow, yeah, he was special. Oh yeah. And I can remember when
he passed away. I remember it was like December 8 of 82 right?
December 8. December 9. I was working radio in Louisiana,
Baton Rouge at the time, and it's one of the only times I can
remember after hearing of someone passing I had grown men
calling the radio station in tears. He really, really
affected a lot of people.
Well, here, have to tell you this. I was working at music
country radio network, right, which was part of WSM, and I
just gotten off at two in the morning. Al risen. I got the
name of Al Rison was on from two until six. While I was on the
way home, I was listening to Al and Marty Robbins called, and
they were talking, and Marty complains, so I'm laying on the
floor right now, my back is killing me, and he had just
gotten off tour, and so I went home. I never thought anything
about it, but when I woke up the next day, I heard the news that
Marty Robbins had a massive heart attack. Now he was still
alive, but I don't
think well, he had heart issues all throughout his young life,
yeah.
And one thing I did love about Marty, whenever he played the
Opry and he was the last act, he would always run over, yes. And
I remember it used to make Ernest really mad, because
Ernest would be doing his midnight jamboree at his record
shop, and I got to hear it on the radio one night that shit
was hilarious. Would always do, yeah, he'd always do several
encores of El Paso.
And also, Marty would call and prank you on the phone. He would
disguise his way. He called me like that and said, I'm over
here this nursing home, and I'm listening to WSM radio. I really
enjoy and everything. But I was just wondering if you could I
saw, let me guess, you want to hear Marty Robbins song, right?
And he said, Oh, you son of a gun, but he would do stuff like
that. He was a sweetheart. He was a great guy.
So again, I mean, we would be here all day to to ask you about
the all the artists you've met and and dealt with over the
years, but you have to have some real favorites. I mean, you've
just mentioned Marty Robbins. I mean, there, there had to have
been others that really, really hit home with you.
Well, there were some that I met, that I thought I'd never
meet, and became, actually became kind of friends with. One
was. Lefty Frizzell, I just couldn't believe lefty actually
said he loved listening to me. And I thought, oh my god, yeah,
that's yeah, that would be and he would call me on the phone
and he said, I'm gonna bring my guitar up and, you know,
performs on the air for you. And he did that several times. He
said, I'm going to make it this weekend. Now he called me on, I
think it was Sunday, Sunday evening of this particular week,
and said, I am definitely going to come up and see you Friday
night after the Opry. See I was on after the midnight jamboree.
And I said, Great. And he said, I'm gonna bring my guitar and
I'll stay with you all night. So Wednesday, he died of a heart
attack, mercy, and that just killed me. I mean, not just
because he passed away, but we had had plans, you know, yeah,
but he was one of them Alabama. They were great guys. I met them
before they became stars. I actually, at that time, was
working at wsix FM, doing mornings and an independent
promoter, right promoter, brought a record. It was on a
self, one of these very independent labels that I think
they had had pressed up themselves and the song, and I
still have that record at home. The song was, I want to come
over the Alabama band. And I thought, This is great. So I was
the music director at that time, so I thought I'd put it on. And
this was before my home in Alabama was out. So I started
getting requests for it. People really liked it.
And, you know, he it just took off
after that. So they were the Alabama, they weren't still wild
country at no time.
At this time, they called themselves the Alabama band, and
then later, Alabama, yeah, but then that was fun. They would
come up and visit me when I was at wsix, and they would come up
an old black van. And so I saw a progression from the black van
to a limousine for someone else's diving. And they would
come in and, you know, chat with me for a little while. But they
were,
they were great. I mean, Benny, you had such a fabulous career
from the radio perspective. When I mean Johnny, can you imagine,
you know, gosh, Alan Jackson or George Strait throwing a pebble
on your window to come up and talk to,
you know, what an amazing what an
amazing time, though. Yeah,
that wasn't, you know, that's a magical moment, no, and that's
when Nashville, to me, was fun, yeah.
And at the moment, it wasn't that I wasn't aware of it. I
appreciate it every second. And I thought, I can't believe I'm
absorbing all this. I would even go in and watch Lester flat
record the the 15 minute bluegrass. So the Martha White
Oh yeah, Arthur, white flower, yeah, they had a 15 minute
program every morning before the waking crew, and grant Turner
was MC in it. I can't believe I worked with someone like Grant
Turner. GRANT Turner was great guy, yeah, the dean, they call
him, but one of the nicest guys ever met was Grant Turner, but I
would sit there and in the studio and watch them, where
they where they did the waking crew. They would come in and do
an entire week's worth, and Marty Stewart was with them at
that time, had a big flight cowboy hat, and it was playing
that dude is unbelievable, yeah, yeah, but of course, Earl
Scruggs had separated from Leicester flat, so I never did
get seal them together. Yeah, that was fascinating. I am
watching Lester flat and Marty Stewart do that Martha White
show. It was amazing.
So tell us about some of the wonderful women of country music
that you had an opportunity to interact with,
Reba McIntyre, right? You worked with Reba? Yeah, yeah. Now, I
met Reba when she first went with mercury record. Mercury,
yeah, a dear friend of mine,
Frank level, oh yeah. Remember Frank? Yeah,
he brought her by, and I did an interview with Reba. We recorded
one, and I put a little special together with her. And after the
interview, we went to this little steakhouse at
Murfreesboro road and had lunch that was fun. And Reba seemed
always remember. Remember me from those early days. You would
always, no matter what she was doing, she'd say, Hey, you come
over here, you know, give me a hug. And I remember seeing her
on the street. She was getting bigger and bigger, oh yeah,
time. And I didn't want to bother her, and so I'd seen her
on the street. Andy Williams' brother, I think it was Don
Williams, at the time, was managing her, yes, and so I met
her outside the old MCA, where they used to be in that smaller
building on 16th Avenue, and she would stop and say hi. And then
I was at one of the CRS conventions at the Opryland
hotel, and there was a big crowd around her, and you know, you
don't want to bother them when they're busier, going from point
A to point B. Well, I kind of passed her, and she passed me,
and she stopped and called my name and came over and gave me a
hug. She's always done that. Wow, even to this day,
who the thought? Because, you know, when I first, I first I
first started playing her records when she was on Mercury.
Who would have thought at that time that she would be as big as
she is? No, you know, you you reach, you reach super stardom.
But all you have to say is the first name, yeah, you know, Reba
true, yeah.
I remember back in those days, she actually did a duet with
Jackie Ward, yeah. Jackie Ward, yeah.
I remember Jack mercury as well. Yeah,
Jackie was a great guy, and that was, I think that was a big
thing for her to do a duet with Jackie that time, because he
was, yeah,
he was established, yeah, he was a hit maker. You know, we've
had, we had Deborah Allen as a guest here, and you know, she
did those duets with through the magic with Jim Reeves, and that
introduced her to the world and made her, you know, a little
more credible in the eyes of radio programmers.
Yeah, I remember doing an interview with Deborah Allen
when she was married to Ray fenwol, right? And I had them
all together. And that is some more interviews with her. And
she was always sweet, yeah, oh, yeah, I know she and Ray Van Hoy
were writing a lot of songs these days, right? Ray fan hoy
is more of a writer than than an artist, although he did have
have a couple of records, yeah.
Now you mentioned that you were music director at wsix Back
then, did you have the autonomy to just play whatever the heck
you wanted, or did you have to run it by corporate or some
other well, entity,
I thought I had the power to do that until I got called down a
couple of times now, the program director at that time decided
that I should not have put Alabama on because nobody knew
who they were at that time, I want to come over. That was the
song we were playing, and I said I thought that we could as long
as the record sounded good and had a nice message. It didn't
matter whether they were known or not, as long as fit the
format. And he thought about, I said, Well, you're right, and he
put it back on. He because he pulled it off and he put it back
on after I needed pleaded with it.
So yeah, you ultimately got the the last laugh on that, right?
Yeah, because those fellas did, okay, well, so did he?
He did really, really, really, well, yeah. Can I mention his
name?
Yeah. Well, it's entirely up to you.
Jerry house, oh yeah, Jerry and I were actually really close for
a long time. We we kind of split with thoughts, but no, we're
good friends, and I always was proud to have worked with him.
He was great.
Yeah, you know that whole house foundation thing, boy, that was
a juggernaut.
Yeah, that's that's true. And I mean, he worked hard for it.
He really did. Now, did you ever work with the great Jerry
minchell, yes, I did
the great Jerry Minchew. You talk about a voice and wsix, I
was on FM, he was on AM, yeah. And then I worked with Jerry
again at WSM later, yeah. And of course, now he's my neighbor.
You've just meant to be together. Have
you ever had to call the police on him for too much noise. He
seems like a rowdy
guy's do, like, the home improvement over the fence
conversations with, like, fabulous radio voices. Well, the
neighbors perk up when it happens.
Like I'm on the second story. He's down in the first even
better, I can yell at him and say, Hey, Jerry,
Jerry had to call me one time. I got called to the carpet
because he was music director at the radio station we were
working at, and the uppity UPS told him to get in touch with
me. I played a David Allen co song called divers do it deeper.
And then they told. Him, said, Let him know if he ever does
that again, that he will no longer be working here. And
Jerry was very diplomatic about it. That low voice, Johnny, I
was told if you'd play that song again that well, they said,
that's the last time you're gonna play yeah.
What a great guy, though. Oh, and what a great talent. I
remember the first time I met David Alan Cole. I was scared of
it, because I heard all these rumors. And turned out the
really nice guy he is. He is a super nice guy, yeah. And then I
got to interview him when I worked at Ws, Sims, music,
country network a couple of times, and he was, he was
fabulous,
yeah, he was always fabulous to me. And I've heard other people
say that, you know, I had a bad experience with him, but I never
did well.
And Johnny paycheck, I'd met him. I never interviewed him,
but I met him one night. I was working with Harold, and of
course, I was going through the master control room to go to the
front of WSM. It's in the old WSM V building, yeah, where
Channel Four is. And we were there for quite a few years, and
I didn't know he was on the other side of the door, and I
opened the door, he was staring. I apologize, it wasn't, I
wasn't, you know, scared of you. I just wasn't expecting you.
Yeah, but
were you ever, were you still at WSM when they went over to the
Opryland hotel and were in that bubble, you know, in that in
that room, what kind of experience was that like to, you
know, have people with their nose pressed up against the
glass watching you do your thing.
Well, when I went back to WSM, we were still on the hill with
Channel Four and national life still home the company at that
time, which they were great to work for. They were absolutely
fabulous. I mean, they treated you like part of the family
anyway, we moved from the hill in 1982 out to the little white
building. They call it House on the Prairie, which is before you
get to the opry land hotel. I am Stanley. Tore it down the last
few months, but we were in that we even had trailers in the
back, and so we were there for quite a while, until Charlie
Douglas came up. So we were broadcasting, taking over the
WSM am studio at night for music country network. And then chuck
Morgan left and went to work for the Dallas,
Texas Rangers. Well, it's in Texas anyway.
Wrong team. But no, Chuck was a great guy to work with, too, and
he's still with the Texas Rangers. And I ran into him in
October when WSM had the 100th anniversary. Yeah, and I hadn't
seen him in years, but still the same, same old Chuck. But
anyway, I set in for Chuck for six months as the interim host
of the music country network. So they got a replacement. And of
course, that replacement was Charlie Douglas in the right
game. Yeah, I had heard of Charlie, yeah, WWL, New Orleans.
So I didn't know what to expect, and I Charlie was one of the
most fantastic guys I had ever worked with. He loved to have
fun. It was like radio used to be. Yes, he was like, I tried to
compare him to a character called fizzy wig from the
Christmas Carol. Remember the fizzy wig character, when
Scrooge looked back on the life and there was fizzy wig always
having to, you know, it was his
first boss, yeah, his first boss. And in the Muppet
Christmas Carol, it's named Fozzie wig.
And his character was maybe not as animated, but his heart was
like that, very jubilant. He wanted us all to have fun. As a
matter of fact, speaking of the Christmas Carol, he wanted me to
put a Country Christmas carol together, which I produced. I
went to the library, found the shortest version of the
Christmas Carol I could find, and we used country music stars
as the characters. Bill Anderson was whispering Scrooge. That's
great. Grandpa Jones was the Ghost of Christmas Past.
How does whispering bill have the intimidation factor of a
scrooge of his whisper,
well, he did say humbug.
Sounds like Clint Eastwood, but
grandpa Jones will said it's.
Jerry Clower was also, Oh, wow. But the thing is, I recorded
them all separately, none. So I had to put it all together. I
actually suddenly some of them, I can read the lines to them.
But they were all just just loved it, because they were
doing something out of Yeah, yeah. What a project that was
like, an hour
project. Oh, Mercy. How long did it take you to put that too,
and was that? Was that real or real?
Real or real? Yeah, so we're you did have a
project, pencils and
razor blades? Yeah,
you put some calluses on those fingertips you
had some long nights on that
own sound effects, sometimes too, like the chains of one of
the ghosts. I borrowed one of the guys chains from his car.
You know, you know, snow chains, and made the sound effects of
that, and I borrowed people from the radio station as extras, and
I don't know how to put it together now, looking back,
because I didn't have multi track, I would
imagine you had to put the story line together and then improvise
the soundtracks onto another, Yeah, set of tape
sound effects. How neat it would be to hear that today. Oh, a
guy I know, Jim driver, whom I worked with at WSM years ago,
has a copy of it. Oh, wow. And he is promised to bring it to me
to one of the luncheons. Oh yeah, the radio luncheons. So
I'm hoping they get a copy of, Oh, man.
I mean, that needs to be in a museum where some radio Museum.
Well, the Country Music Radio Hall of Fame does have it in
their archives. Now it's in their archives, which doesn't
mean that nobody knows anything about it, but we present, I have
a picture actually, me, Johnny Russell and Charlie Douglas
presenting the master tape to the Country Music Hall of Fame.
Oh, wow, that's that's cool. Johnny Russell was tiny.
Tim. I mean, this was great typecasting. Yeah.
Charlie Douglas's humor, you know, you gotta get
Johnny to play time. What a
character he was. Johnny Russell.
Did you have any trouble convincing when you brought this
idea to these stars? Did they all just think that was great
and jump in? Or did you have to twist their
arms? Oh, no, I didn't have twist anybody.
I just can't imagine doing that today. You know, going to today
stars and wanting to do something like that? Yeah, I
don't think you'd get the Yeah, you'd have to go through their
manager and their publicist. Miss Swift.
Do you want to do this thing?
I would love to see that. I'd be surprised.
You know, it'd be kind of an interesting experience.
Interesting experiment.
Would be, yeah, but the whole theater of the mind thing is
what makes radio so special. And you know, you that had to while
the workload had to be arduous, as you've described, that had to
be an absolute blast.
It was fun. It was
creative, to be able to be that creative, yeah, yeah.
So, I mean, you know, the theater of the mind for this
podcast is the fact that the three of us are muscular.
Adonises, oh, wait a minute, we've got cameras in here.
Yes, right? Cameras kind of
Yeah. The Mystery of radio is now gone. That
was the nice thing about radio. People didn't have
to, it's true, yeah. Well, that was the great thing about radio
then as well. It was, I think even listening to the opry on
the weekend, you know, people would envision in their own mind
what, what everything looked like, what? And that's kind of
gone today with cameras everywhere. And I kind of hate
that radio, but you came up during a magical time.
Oh yeah, it was magical. And you, too, you were in radio
before you came to Nashville,
right, right, you know. And Johnny, of course, as well,
yeah, you know. And I came to Nashville kind of in the tail
end of a lot of the golden era that many people refer to it as,
you know, you know, I met Owen Bradley, and you know people
like that way back when, but you know, again, you had a wife at
the time that was with a record label, a number of them. Did you
ever get, you know, so many radio guys go to a label. Did
you ever have that opportunity or have the bug to work for a
record company? Oh no, yeah,
I admired what you did. I don't think I could have done it. I
would have been me in the. That time. And of course, you work
with other people in the music industry that was in radio, like
Roger rams,
Oh, of course, just about all of us that were at MCA at the time,
not everybody, but most of us were old radio guys, yeah, you
know. And that's the case with so many, at least back then, the
record label reps, at least the promotion radio promotion
people. But you know, let's face it, radio, record labels and
radio both are just so totally different these days. And I do
see a lot of the record reps that are out there now, they're
not radio people. They've never worked in radio. No, you know,
but so you know, you've transitioned. Well, let me ask
you this. You are a major talent when it comes to voiceover work.
Another thing that I've always admired about you, were you
doing that while in radio? Or is that something that you really
started attacking once you you kind of left radio full time?
Well, I'd
always loved putting something together, putting commercials
together, was like,
Yeah, you're a production guy.
Yes, I Yes, very much. And if I always thought, if I wasn't
invited to the party, I would just make my own I'd throw my
own party, as far as getting into doing voice over work. But
I had, I guess I was blessed that I was able to step into it,
because I'd done all these commercials on radio, yeah, and
I'd keep, I keep the best ones, you know, for auditions, you
know, for my real, my voice over real. And so when I got to
Nashville, I was told I needed to hook up with talent model
land at the time, Betty Clark, God, rest her soul. Yes, she
was, she was great. I got with her, and looking back, I don't
know what she saw in me, but I went to her 111, time, and I
asked her, you know, I was getting rejected a lot, and
especially on camera things like that. I said, Betty, just be
honest with me. But she was very brutally honest with everybody,
which I loved about her. And I said, What's wrong? What do I
need to do? And he's she said, Well, look at yourself. She
come
on, look at yourself.
So she basically just broached the topic, hey, look at yourself
and then decide what you need to change? Not like, well, look at
yourself. I mean, you're a good looking guy. I mean,
well, I mean, I had like, a mustache. My hair was down to
here at the time. And she said, What do you need to clean up? A
little and which, all the information she gave me really
helped. Now, I recalled going into to visit with a dear
friend. He's a dear friend of mine. Now, his, can I say his
name is
all you want on him. We encourage it.
I don't know if you know him. Went to the sound shop for
years. He was also a WNYC radio and who was that again? Now,
Byron Warner, okay, and anyway, he was in charge of the
production at sound shop, which was owned by Buddy killing.
Yeah, right, right. And Byron took care of the commercials
that they did a lot of commercials there. So I went in,
and this first time I met Byron, I had in my little reel of my
voice work. And he put it on the reel to reel, and sat there
behind his desk, and
you do this, you know, you know,
as it was going like that,
and it was over, he says, well, it's not that was pretty good.
He said, I would have never thought you could have done that
when you walk through the door. I said, Thank you. So I started,
wow, how am I supposed to look? But, you know, I guess
presentation, the whole package is necessary.
It's like being told, Well, hey, you know, I didn't realize you
were this popular with the audience. People. You did that.
So back headed compliments, yes
and I reminded him of that
at one time. He said, I said that to you. I said, Yeah, I
said, I thought it was hilarious, but he was great guy.
And Byron was great. He is this great voice. And I told Byron, I
said, you know, I wish I was as consistently good as you are,
because you can go in the studio, drop sound at the drop
of the hat, and sound great. I said, I may sound great one day
and lousy, right?
The consistency is tough. It really is tough, yeah, and that
is what separates, you know, the Class A Voice Over people from,
you know, yeah, poor people like me, like me, Class G,
I got to the point where I lost my range. This was like 1616
years Whoa, there we go. 16 years
ago. Ty Garth Brooks, yeah,
but I really got concerned. I was called in to do a commercial
at Audio Productions. And when I went up there, I just thought,
Man, I hope they want a higher range. And I asked the engineer,
I said, Do you know what what they're looking for? And so they
love that very first cut on your demon. I thought, oh, boy, I'm
screwed. And I told the guy said I tried to call you because I
don't think I can do this. And that was just horrible, horrible
feeling. Yeah, I can imagine. Well, let's give it a try. So I
went and I just couldn't get down. And he said, Well, yeah,
yeah, you're right.
What was what was the like, the physical? You remember what the
mentality was, because I've been in that situation. Hey, you
know, on your demo, I want you to do this, and you go back and
listen to it, and you're like, you know, probably should change
that out. I did take it off. But, I mean, you remember, like,
the I always have to get, like, into a physicality mindset,
like, lay on the floor and, like, relax the diaphragm, you
know, kind of do, like, those types of exercises which would
help my register get back down where it was, because my balls
dropped about nine years ago, I was always, like, mid range, and
all of A sudden I could, you know, do borderline movie
trailers all of a sudden.
So, wow, I know I feel it. I feel the pain. I actually ended
up going to the Vanderbilt voice clinic. Oh, really. And they
helped me tremendously. I mean, they did a lot of weird things.
One of the things I wasn't crazy about was a hope I don't get
gross here, but they had to run a camera down my throat here,
down my throat, and they had a video. They were videotaping it,
and had me to do and they say, you want to look at I said, No,
no, maybe later. No, that's your job, yeah. And so they did that
to make sure that there wasn't anything serious down there,
yeah. And so when I was talking to the the guy that helped me
get back the therapist, I would go and see him once a week, and
we'd go through exercises. And I asked him, Well, what, what
could be wrong? He says, Well, your voice is worn out. Said,
you you've gotten old. And I thought, you mean I can't get
back? He says, Well, maybe, but they did run me through some
exercises, and I did manage to get to the point where I could
could do it again, but that was really frightening.
Yeah, I can imagine. I mean, you know, you hear a lot of vocal,
you know, singers that go through that. I mean, nodes.
Elton John had that, you know, when he recorded that live album
in Australia, his voice was shredded, and he had had the
notes so you didn't have any surgery or anything you were
able to therapeutically resolve, oh,
yeah, yeah. They were little exercises. And this sounds
crazy, but you'd get a glass of water with a straw and blow into
that, making bubbles interesting, or go, yeah, which
is really crazy, almost like priestess people
do some crazy things, yeah, and
so he actually described, think of curly doing, you know, like
that, and just do it was kind of like on the odd couple Felix
would do that. That's,
that's the thing for me, is like, it's put, you know, talk
about getting gross. It's post nasal drip, yeah? Oh my gosh.
That's why I got, you know, the nose spray behind
one of the things they said is, drink water, yeah, drink water.
Drink water. Drink water. Green apples. Green apples.
Yeah, and lay off alcohol, caffeine, not nicotine, yeah,
not beneficial to one's throat.
I've always heard whiskey does a good job to your throat, though.
Oh, really, yeah, I'm serious, yeah, yeah. It's like supposed
to be actually, not bad for the voice. That's why a lot
of my voice was better when I drank.
I mean, I. Them, at least you thought
it was your
was there kind of like a moment in your mind where you said,
Well, how can I take what I have and just pivot a little bit and
capitalize? That's what I've had to do, like, all of a sudden,
I've had like a rasp sneak into my voice, where it's like a bill
like a bill clinton kind of thing, like this, where, where?
Sometimes it does. It's a good sound, you know, it's a good
down home. I always used to do the ACE true value up there.
And, you know, Harpeth, true value. And I would always read
the commercials with that little bit of rasp, yeah. And it was,
they just loved it, you know, it was like it just worked.
Always did, especially there was one guy that got me out of doing
the radio thing. Was a guy named Charlie pro Sykes. He had a
company called Charlie and friends. He was out of Texas,
worked at Texas radio for years, and he and his family came in
and had a very successful company, the Charlie and
friends, and he had his own studio. And I remember going in,
and I tried my regular delivery, and he said, I don't want that,
since I want little higher range and just just forget about
radio. And so I did that, and it was more almost like the guy did
with a name like Smuckers. It has to be good. I remember that,
yeah, yeah, Mason Adams. Mason Adams, yeah, and so, so I
started a little higher range, like that. And now, you know,
and that really took a load off of the old vocal chords.
Yeah, I can imagine now, you did a lot of spots, of course, in
radio over the years. But when did you feel like you really,
you know you're sag AFTRA, so you've done some major, major
voiceover work. What was the one spot, or client, or what have
you where you just really felt like you had broken through and
and were really, really proud of of what you had accomplished.
I'll have to give the credit to my old friend Milton Blackford.
You ever heard of Milton? Milton worked in ENR in radio, worked
for United Artists at the time, and also was in a group called
the glass hammer, which recorded for Warner Brothers rock. He
was, you know, pop and of course, Milton has written a lot
of country songs. He's one of the most talented guys I know.
And he also dabbled in advertising. Had very creative
mind. Milton was the guy who wrote me and my RC. Oh, wow.
BMI, RC, well, I still in touch with Milton. I got out of touch
with him for 20 years. But anyway, one of the largest
commercials I got was not by audition, but by association of
knowing the producer over the years. And it wasn't like, Oh,
I'm going to hire you because you're a friend. It was that he
knew I could do this particular thing and he didn't have to
audition. So I went in to do McDonald's, and we would do
maybe three,
three sessions a month, and maybe three to four spots per
session. Now, not only got paid for the voiceover for radio, but
they used it on television. Which I got paid again? You
know? Which was great. I did 46 of those commercials for over a
year. Wow. And thank goodness for Milton, he got me out of
debt. I bought my first condo. I my car was paid off, and made it
possible for me to fly to China to beat my love of my life,
which I'm married to now, yeah, going on 22 years being married,
and so it hadn't been for Milton. A lot of things that
happened to me over the last 20 years would have never happened.
Wow, that's that is sweet, yeah.
But I had talked to Milton every once in a while. He lives down
in Spring Hill, down in this area, and he's like, 82 and
talking to him on the phone is like talking to Milton 30 years
ago. I mean, it's, he's still Milton, yeah, and he still has
enthusiasm, still writing songs, I mean, beautiful stuff. And so
I have to credit Milton for really, bless his heart for
helping me out for my life. Oh, yeah, for the last 22 years.
Well, that's, that is. That's really great. Well, Benny, I
tell you, man, it's, it's wonderful to see you. You know,
we met many, many years ago. We've kept in touch all these
years. And as I say, I've always. Really admired and
really looked up to the to what all you've done, you know, on
air, voiceover stuff again, man, it's, it's great to just kind of
document what you know, what all you've done in the some stories
about who you've met. That's one of the things that we kind of
value with the podcast. We, we talked to a lot of folks that
are, you know, in radio and music, songwriters and whatnot,
and we kind of take seriously documenting a lot of this stuff,
and our listeners, our viewers, they comment that very thing,
that it's so great that you guys are are documenting and getting
on tape, for lack of a better term, these these stories and
folks like you to tell us about the good old days.
They don't circle the drain, yeah,
and it seems like we all have a connection somehow, somewhere,
like I would listen to you with Phil Valentine and Johnny B it
didn't dawn on me that you were Johnny Bozeman, yeah, which I
knew your sister, Janet
for years. Yeah. A lot of people, yeah,
you know. And I always thought a lot of Janet, she was great on
the air. I What did she do now, after radio? Did she work at
MCA, CMA,
CMA and she also worked at Sony, okay? And then she became a
publicist, yes, publicist, okay. And now she's living in, of all
places, Alabama.
Now, when did you come to town?
I came to town in 7777 Yeah.
Now your dad bought a radio station, the F we know, we know,
yeah. He also put an FM on, yeah.
He did. JR Yeah. Wjrb was the am, I'm trying to think what the
WJ, kz, kz country was, which is now 100 lightning, 100 Yeah,
yeah, yeah.
So I visited Janet one time on 16th Avenue. And what's now the
curb? Well, we
see I was probably there, yeah, they kept me from Yeah.
But then, you know, when I met you at the luncheons thing with
Jerry, yeah, oh, I think I know you.
Well, you know, I feel really weird going because they're
they're called legends lunches. Well, and these guys are
legends. What am I? You know, Phil Valentine's butt boy.
Now that's my title.
I was Phil Valentine's butt boy.
But we have a lot of fun at those lunches. Oh yeah, we do,
yeah, and it's great to see see all those you need to be. Thank
you. You do.
You're a legend. Oh, good grief.
Well, Benny again, man, thank you so much for for making your
way to us. It's been a real treat to see you and hear some
of your amazing story and amazing career.
Well, thank you. Some somebody said, you know, you should write
a book. And I thought it would be a book of useless information
if I wrote a book.
I don't know about that, but I know he should. Yeah, I
gotta, I gotta say, though, coming up in I would say the
golden age of radio and voiceover and everything, and we
see what's happening. You know, radio just about has, you know,
the second to last nail being drilled into the coffin. Voice
Over is being affected all things the creative are being
affected by AI, what's your take, and what's what you think
of what might be a solution for radio moving forward?
Oh, my goodness, I wish I could come up with one. I could save
the world. But I am a little concerned that that AI, as far
as voice over work might get too popular, because it is
inexpensive. You know, you can, you can hire a really good voice
for nothing and but the creativity of of of AI is not
there yet. As far as little nuances
humanity, I'll give you a
really quick example. I know, I know need to close this out, but
I heard television a certain commercial, and the guy that was
doing that on camera, he was checking off how much he wanted
this particular product, and he says, I'll take 100 milligrams.
Thank you very much. And then they replaced him with AI, this
particular voice, and he does the same read. He says, I'll
take 100 milligrams. Thank you very much. There was no emphasis
there, right? And so those little nuances, those little
things, thank goodness, have not taken over yet, but they have
done an amazing job. Of, of creating a voice, but how do you
direct that? I mean, how do you key in on a computer while? I
want this lifted here, this down here, not as much here, and a
little bit more there. I don't know how you would do that.
So, and I am seeing, and we've talked about this, I'm seeing
the younger generation doesn't seem to be all that enamored
with AI
replace all their jobs Exactly.
They see the end.
They're looking for the authenticity,
and they even like vinyl over, you know, CDs or anything else,
downloads.
Yep, there's a lot of that. Yeah. Well, Benny, thank you
again. And hey, you know, hopefully we can get you back. I
know you got a lot more stories that that you could share with
us.
Well, I've always been told I was full of it. Yeah,
you fit right in. Well, I really am honored to be here.
Well, again, it's great that we could finally get you here. I
know we've tried to get our schedules together, and it
finally, finally worked out. Well, Johnny B, you normally
allow me to go through where all this, the the podcast, all the
platforms can be found. I'll let you do it. Wow.
Well, you can find us on Apple podcasts. You look at anywhere
podcasts are available, you'll find circling the drain. You can
also check out circling the drain.net, you can find a lot of
cool stuff there, including a lot of cool T shirts, caps. That
is correct even to see pictures of the three of us there, which
will just amaze families everywhere. And on top of that,
you can check out our YouTube channel as well, right?
Like and Subscribe. So we hope you'll do all that, and we also
hope you'll check in again with us on the next episode of
circling the drain.
All right. Well, thank you.