WEBVTT NOTE This file was generated by Descript 00:00:01.170 --> 00:00:05.460 Welcome to The Chemical Show, the podcast where Chemical means business. 00:00:05.910 --> 00:00:09.690 I'm your host, Victoria Meyer, bringing you stories and insights 00:00:09.690 --> 00:00:13.590 from leaders driving innovation and growth across the chemical industry. 00:00:14.550 --> 00:00:18.840 Each week we explore key trends, real world challenges, and the 00:00:18.840 --> 00:00:20.670 strategies that make an impact. 00:00:20.880 --> 00:00:21.720 Let's get started. 00:00:23.496 --> 00:00:24.546 victoria-meyer_1_08-14-2025_091758: Welcome back to The Chemical 00:00:24.546 --> 00:00:26.676 Show where Leaders Talk Business. 00:00:26.736 --> 00:00:27.366 Today, 00:00:27.366 --> 00:00:31.536 i've got a special guest and some of my friends call him the og, the 00:00:31.536 --> 00:00:33.306 Chemical Show Guest number one, Mr. 00:00:33.306 --> 00:00:37.746 Brad Beauchamp, who is the president and CEO of Carpenter Company, which 00:00:37.746 --> 00:00:41.406 is the world's largest producer of comfort cushioning products. 00:00:41.506 --> 00:00:43.996 Basically the things you're sitting on sleeping on. 00:00:44.621 --> 00:00:45.251 Et cetera. 00:00:45.591 --> 00:00:49.671 Brad was last on the podcast in 2022, and at that time he revealed, 00:00:49.761 --> 00:00:52.191 um, and dis discussed, we just talked about the cybersecurity 00:00:52.191 --> 00:00:54.021 attack that they had survived. 00:00:54.291 --> 00:00:56.121 So we've got a whole lot of other things going on. 00:00:57.011 --> 00:00:59.711 Today we're gonna be talking about a number of things in turn, including some 00:00:59.711 --> 00:01:03.281 of the acquisitions that they've made recently and how those are turning out. 00:01:03.281 --> 00:01:04.331 And a few other topics. 00:01:04.661 --> 00:01:09.281 And Brad doesn't know this, but I'm really hoping he's gonna make an announcement. 00:01:09.311 --> 00:01:10.121 No pressure, Brad. 00:01:10.511 --> 00:01:14.561 Um, because I'm feeling a little bit of FOMO right now because as we 00:01:14.561 --> 00:01:18.971 record this, Taylor Swift was just on the Kelsey Brothers podcast. 00:01:19.331 --> 00:01:19.751 Uh. 00:01:20.321 --> 00:01:23.471 New heights and she announced her new album. 00:01:23.711 --> 00:01:27.281 So I don't know if Brad's got something big and bold for us 00:01:27.281 --> 00:01:28.421 today, but we're gonna find out. 00:01:29.021 --> 00:01:30.581 Brad, welcome back to The Chemical Show. 00:01:31.639 --> 00:01:33.674 brad-guest15_1_08-14-2025_101758: That's, that's quite the introduction, so I 00:01:33.674 --> 00:01:38.174 don't know how, uh, I think it's only downhill from, from here on this, so we'll 00:01:38.291 --> 00:01:41.231 victoria-meyer_1_08-14-2025_091758: Well, you know, those, those of us 00:01:41.231 --> 00:01:44.531 who know you, know that you're better than Travis, uh, Kelsey and Taylor 00:01:44.531 --> 00:01:46.781 Swift, so we can make this happen. 00:01:47.399 --> 00:01:49.079 brad-guest15_1_08-14-2025_101758: Yeah, he's got much better hair than I do 00:01:49.361 --> 00:01:49.691 victoria-meyer_1_08-14-2025_091758: Yeah. 00:01:49.889 --> 00:01:51.719 brad-guest15_1_08-14-2025_101758: in a much bigger bank account, but other 00:01:51.719 --> 00:01:53.369 than that I got him beat, you know, so 00:01:53.471 --> 00:01:54.011 victoria-meyer_1_08-14-2025_091758: Perfect. 00:01:54.089 --> 00:01:55.289 brad-guest15_1_08-14-2025_101758: just, we'll just go from there. 00:01:55.289 --> 00:01:57.239 But I, it's a pleasure to be back on. 00:01:57.269 --> 00:02:01.919 You know, we were just talking before we started recording how great I think that 00:02:01.919 --> 00:02:05.579 this is for the industry overall, and you know, the more people that listen to. 00:02:05.999 --> 00:02:09.359 I, I get a lot of feedback from people that say they've heard me or they've heard 00:02:09.359 --> 00:02:11.489 others, and they grab things out of it. 00:02:11.489 --> 00:02:15.749 And I, I just really, I'm glad that you started this a few years back 00:02:15.749 --> 00:02:20.309 and that, uh, you know, obviously honored to be on again, which, happy to 00:02:20.309 --> 00:02:21.899 answer whatever questions are on your 00:02:21.951 --> 00:02:22.281 victoria-meyer_1_08-14-2025_091758: Yeah. 00:02:23.151 --> 00:02:23.601 I love it. 00:02:23.751 --> 00:02:24.231 Well, thank you. 00:02:24.231 --> 00:02:25.341 I, I appreciate you being here. 00:02:25.341 --> 00:02:28.401 And I, and I think actually one of the interesting things, I'm just gonna, um, 00:02:28.401 --> 00:02:29.751 throw in this a little bit of a plug. 00:02:30.111 --> 00:02:34.041 What's interesting and what I did not anticipate when I started the chemical 00:02:34.041 --> 00:02:40.251 show was, was this aspect of kind of just the longevity and the visibility of it. 00:02:40.551 --> 00:02:44.861 And we actually did some work, where guests that are on the chemical show, 00:02:44.861 --> 00:02:47.681 like on the podcast, end up in numbers. 00:02:47.681 --> 00:02:50.321 The average Google search rank is number seven. 00:02:50.351 --> 00:02:52.811 So think about it as being above the fold. 00:02:52.811 --> 00:02:54.311 And of course, Google owns YouTube. 00:02:54.311 --> 00:02:55.961 Everything gets published out to YouTube. 00:02:55.961 --> 00:02:58.781 So when people are on the chemical show, they show up. 00:02:59.076 --> 00:03:01.476 On YouTube, they show up on Google, they show up around 00:03:01.806 --> 00:03:03.126 everywhere, which is really great. 00:03:03.426 --> 00:03:06.456 Um, the other interesting thing, Brad, and I don't know if you've had this 00:03:06.456 --> 00:03:11.286 experience, but people have told me, and guests on the podcast have told me 00:03:11.736 --> 00:03:17.736 that they use these podcast interviews as preparation for their interviews 00:03:17.796 --> 00:03:21.966 with a company or, and they're, as they're doing research on an executive 00:03:21.996 --> 00:03:23.496 or research on a company, they're like, 00:03:23.626 --> 00:03:25.906 i'm talking to executive later this week. 00:03:26.236 --> 00:03:29.746 Um, I wanted to hear from their own words what they wanna say, 00:03:29.746 --> 00:03:31.640 and, I never expected that. 00:03:31.640 --> 00:03:36.213 I think it's just a really cool way of people, getting access to people 00:03:36.213 --> 00:03:38.073 and to companies and to insights. 00:03:38.528 --> 00:03:40.508 brad-guest15_1_08-14-2025_101758: Yeah, I've, I've had it a, a couple of times 00:03:40.508 --> 00:03:43.688 where people, I, I don't know if the term's right, have name dropped it Right. 00:03:43.688 --> 00:03:47.348 Have said, oh, you know, before they met me or something, or we sit down, they 00:03:47.348 --> 00:03:52.058 said, oh, I happen to catch your podcast, uh you did with the chemical show. 00:03:52.058 --> 00:03:52.328 Right. 00:03:52.328 --> 00:03:55.988 So, yeah, definitely people are using it as kind of a background to, 00:03:56.555 --> 00:03:56.855 victoria-meyer_1_08-14-2025_091758: Yeah. 00:03:57.038 --> 00:03:58.298 brad-guest15_1_08-14-2025_101758: research their subjects. 00:03:58.298 --> 00:03:59.438 So I, you know, 00:03:59.885 --> 00:04:00.095 victoria-meyer_1_08-14-2025_091758: Yeah. 00:04:00.215 --> 00:04:00.785 Kind of cool, 00:04:00.848 --> 00:04:01.178 brad-guest15_1_08-14-2025_101758: well. 00:04:01.415 --> 00:04:02.255 victoria-meyer_1_08-14-2025_091758: cool stuff. 00:04:02.315 --> 00:04:05.495 So let's get, let's turn this over to you a little bit, Brad. 00:04:05.615 --> 00:04:09.395 'Cause although you're the og, everybody may not really know who you are. 00:04:09.395 --> 00:04:13.655 So just gimme a brief introduction to, to you and to how you got 00:04:13.655 --> 00:04:14.770 to what you're doing and to c. 00:04:15.479 --> 00:04:15.809 brad-guest15_1_08-14-2025_101758: Sure. 00:04:15.809 --> 00:04:18.449 I mean, you know, I think that, and one of the interesting things when 00:04:18.449 --> 00:04:22.019 you ask the people the questions is, I'm, I'm always interested in what 00:04:22.019 --> 00:04:23.519 you call it, their origin story. 00:04:23.519 --> 00:04:23.759 Right. 00:04:23.759 --> 00:04:25.169 How they got to where they are. 00:04:25.169 --> 00:04:28.049 And when you look back on it, you're like, boy, it's, you know. 00:04:28.639 --> 00:04:29.269 Grateful Dead. 00:04:29.269 --> 00:04:30.349 A long, strange trip. 00:04:30.349 --> 00:04:31.099 It's been right. 00:04:31.149 --> 00:04:33.789 When I got out of high school in the eighties right. 00:04:33.789 --> 00:04:36.009 And going to college, uh, in the Midwest. 00:04:36.009 --> 00:04:37.569 So I'm from Chicago originally. 00:04:37.899 --> 00:04:41.109 You know, I studied biology and chemistry because I was interested 00:04:41.109 --> 00:04:45.189 in those subjects and I was also interested in art and figured you 00:04:45.189 --> 00:04:48.729 couldn't make any money in art, so we might as well stick to the sciences. 00:04:48.729 --> 00:04:52.119 And then when I graduated, I was like, okay, what are you gonna do with that? 00:04:52.219 --> 00:04:56.329 And naive me at the time was like, well, I really can't see myself working in 00:04:56.329 --> 00:04:58.969 r and d, so maybe I'll go into sales. 00:04:58.969 --> 00:05:04.369 And so I kind of applied to pharmaceutical and chemical companies and in Chicago, 00:05:04.369 --> 00:05:06.469 and this'll reflect how old I am. 00:05:06.829 --> 00:05:08.299 There was no internet searches. 00:05:08.299 --> 00:05:08.479 Right? 00:05:08.479 --> 00:05:11.569 You went to the library and you got a book, a list of companies 00:05:11.599 --> 00:05:16.129 by, by sector, and you sent out resumes to everywhere and, and. 00:05:16.519 --> 00:05:20.689 Several of them came back and, you know, like people like Ecolab and NCO and 00:05:21.079 --> 00:05:22.579 things like that that were in Chicago. 00:05:22.579 --> 00:05:25.699 And I happened to sign on with, uh, Steppen at the time. 00:05:25.759 --> 00:05:31.999 So in 1989, I started my venture into the surfactants in general chemical space, 00:05:31.999 --> 00:05:33.799 moving into polymers and everything else. 00:05:33.799 --> 00:05:37.774 And then did that for them, in a variety of regions. 00:05:37.874 --> 00:05:38.504 Got an MBA. 00:05:39.139 --> 00:05:41.719 Moved back to, uh, Chicago. 00:05:41.779 --> 00:05:45.709 So I was in Texas for a while, moved back to Chicago, uh, ran a couple 00:05:45.709 --> 00:05:49.819 of businesses for them and then left them to come to Carpenter to run the 00:05:49.819 --> 00:05:52.969 chemical business at the end of 2008. 00:05:52.969 --> 00:05:58.669 And I think you and I first really met each other in 2009 or 2010, um, when you 00:05:58.669 --> 00:06:00.619 were with, with, uh, Clarence at the time. 00:06:01.609 --> 00:06:06.319 and, uh, then, you know, ran the chemical business at Carpenter for 10 years. 00:06:06.319 --> 00:06:07.099 And then Mr. 00:06:07.099 --> 00:06:11.209 Polly, who was the owner of the company, asked me to become the president. 00:06:11.269 --> 00:06:13.159 I became president in 2018. 00:06:13.309 --> 00:06:15.109 He passed away in 2020. 00:06:15.109 --> 00:06:18.109 The board said, you're the president, chief Operating Officer. 00:06:18.109 --> 00:06:19.219 You should be the CEO. 00:06:19.219 --> 00:06:22.069 So I've really been the CEO since 2020. 00:06:22.069 --> 00:06:26.479 So when I kind of take a step back and think about that, it's almost five years 00:06:26.479 --> 00:06:28.609 as CEO, which seems like five minutes, 00:06:28.856 --> 00:06:30.476 victoria-meyer_1_08-14-2025_091758: That's actually a long time for 00:06:30.476 --> 00:06:32.096 A CEO as well, not Necessarily. 00:06:32.096 --> 00:06:35.486 for privately comp health companies, but for many companies, 00:06:35.486 --> 00:06:37.646 five years is the long tenure. 00:06:38.059 --> 00:06:40.249 brad-guest15_1_08-14-2025_101758: So it, I was reading an article, 00:06:40.279 --> 00:06:42.799 uh, I think it was in the Harvard Business Review, but it might have 00:06:42.799 --> 00:06:47.359 been in another place that, that the public, CEO average lifetime is 3.1 00:06:47.359 --> 00:06:47.629 years. 00:06:48.439 --> 00:06:51.379 didn't see anything about private, but, you know, it is a, it's 00:06:51.379 --> 00:06:54.979 definitely a oriented kind of job 00:06:55.111 --> 00:06:55.471 victoria-meyer_1_08-14-2025_091758: Yeah. 00:06:55.549 --> 00:06:56.989 brad-guest15_1_08-14-2025_101758: it and you, you need to kind of 00:06:56.989 --> 00:06:58.789 deliver results and sometimes. 00:07:00.484 --> 00:07:01.204 help with that. 00:07:01.204 --> 00:07:03.064 And sometimes they hurt with that. 00:07:03.064 --> 00:07:03.364 Right. 00:07:03.364 --> 00:07:07.444 And if, if you had, like when I signed on in 2020, it was obviously 00:07:07.444 --> 00:07:11.134 some crazy stuff with COVID and we talked about, you mentioned earlier, 00:07:11.134 --> 00:07:14.644 the cyber stuff, but uh, we also had some good business conditions 00:07:14.644 --> 00:07:18.189 in 21 and 22, then we were dealing. 00:07:18.744 --> 00:07:24.444 Other business conditions since then and, uh, know, it's a crazy, crazy time and 00:07:24.444 --> 00:07:28.614 I'm thankful for the five years that I have and that I've had and look forward 00:07:28.614 --> 00:07:30.894 to more years and doing more things. 00:07:30.894 --> 00:07:31.194 So. 00:07:31.336 --> 00:07:31.886 victoria-meyer_1_08-14-2025_091758: Yeah. 00:07:31.976 --> 00:07:35.276 Yeah, And it has been, uh, crazy business conditions. 00:07:35.761 --> 00:07:39.241 Really for the last three years, I mean, really the entirety of the twenties. 00:07:39.241 --> 00:07:41.401 Twenties has been a little bit crazy. 00:07:41.621 --> 00:07:47.141 From a supply chain perspective, uh, just a business ups and downs perspective. 00:07:47.141 --> 00:07:50.351 Now we're facing tariffs have been facing tariffs, I guess, 00:07:50.561 --> 00:07:51.731 you know, for the last year. 00:07:52.408 --> 00:07:57.808 It's not been, uh, not been normal, but I guess nothing is ever really normal, Brad. 00:07:58.168 --> 00:08:01.348 But during this time you guys made some big moves. 00:08:01.348 --> 00:08:03.418 So you, it's interesting 'cause you talk about. 00:08:03.793 --> 00:08:07.843 As a CEO, that it's really about the results and it absolutely is. 00:08:07.903 --> 00:08:13.060 And yet it's also about vision, and where you can lead your company. 00:08:13.090 --> 00:08:16.150 And so since you've been CEO, I know that you guys have 00:08:16.150 --> 00:08:18.100 done several big acquisitions. 00:08:18.160 --> 00:08:20.530 Uh, the Rectus Hill acquisition, which. 00:08:20.997 --> 00:08:23.067 Really grew the company significantly. 00:08:23.067 --> 00:08:23.367 Right. 00:08:23.367 --> 00:08:26.637 And I think you would say that's like the first time you guys took on that 00:08:26.637 --> 00:08:28.557 big of an acquisition and took on debt. 00:08:28.857 --> 00:08:33.057 The Casper mattresses, which some people are probably sleeping on today. 00:08:33.057 --> 00:08:34.377 So I want to hear more about that. 00:08:34.647 --> 00:08:36.897 Um, and then what NCFI polyurethane. 00:08:36.897 --> 00:08:38.947 So tell us a little bit about. 00:08:39.532 --> 00:08:42.082 This approach to acquisitions. 00:08:42.142 --> 00:08:42.982 What prompted it? 00:08:42.982 --> 00:08:46.672 Because again, this is different than carpenter of the old. 00:08:47.002 --> 00:08:51.892 Um, and how are you bringing them into the fold and creating results outta that? 00:08:52.446 --> 00:08:53.856 brad-guest15_1_08-14-2025_101758: Yeah, that's, uh, we probably could 00:08:53.856 --> 00:08:57.276 go on for a couple hours about this, but, uh, I'll try and keep my answers 00:08:57.966 --> 00:08:59.856 informative and somewhat brief on it. 00:08:59.886 --> 00:09:03.946 So, uh, I would say that, uh, when I became CEO, Mr. 00:09:03.946 --> 00:09:04.726 Polly had been with the. 00:09:05.506 --> 00:09:07.126 Company for 65 years. 00:09:07.126 --> 00:09:09.436 Most people wouldn't appreciate that. 00:09:09.466 --> 00:09:13.396 Most people wouldn't think of somebody working at a company for 65 years. 00:09:13.396 --> 00:09:13.516 And 00:09:13.538 --> 00:09:13.828 victoria-meyer_1_08-14-2025_091758: Yeah. 00:09:13.876 --> 00:09:16.366 brad-guest15_1_08-14-2025_101758: do the math, yes, he was, he was in his early 00:09:16.366 --> 00:09:18.196 nineties and still came in every day. 00:09:18.226 --> 00:09:18.556 Right. 00:09:18.556 --> 00:09:22.246 And very influential dynamic leader throughout the industry, 00:09:22.246 --> 00:09:23.566 but let alone at Carpenter. 00:09:23.566 --> 00:09:26.386 And so, passes away and the board. 00:09:26.591 --> 00:09:29.861 Looks to me and says, okay, what's your plan for the business? 00:09:29.921 --> 00:09:30.251 Right? 00:09:30.311 --> 00:09:33.401 And it's yours now what, what are you gonna do on it? 00:09:33.461 --> 00:09:34.661 And you know, you have choices. 00:09:34.661 --> 00:09:36.881 You could say, well, this is a successful business. 00:09:37.241 --> 00:09:38.981 We'll just ride it out the way it is. 00:09:39.011 --> 00:09:42.131 Um, that's really not my nature is to say, let's coast on things. 00:09:42.131 --> 00:09:44.771 I'm kind of a, when I go on vacation, my wife like. 00:09:45.016 --> 00:09:47.836 To lay by the pool and I like to go do things right. 00:09:47.836 --> 00:09:50.640 So it's uh, you know, I'm one of those where I'm like, 00:09:50.640 --> 00:09:52.170 okay, how can we be improving? 00:09:52.170 --> 00:09:53.580 How can we be getting better? 00:09:53.910 --> 00:09:56.940 And so what I sat down with the board and said, there are opportunities 00:09:56.940 --> 00:09:58.380 for us to grow our business. 00:09:58.680 --> 00:10:02.693 We had a good footprint in Europe, but uh, we weren't the dominant player in Europe. 00:10:02.723 --> 00:10:04.323 So I'm like, there's opportunities in Europe. 00:10:05.403 --> 00:10:08.763 There's opportunities in the United States in segments that 00:10:08.763 --> 00:10:10.023 aren't furniture embedding. 00:10:10.413 --> 00:10:13.653 There's growth in automotive that's happening in the EV space. 00:10:13.653 --> 00:10:18.993 There's a acoustics, uh, sound, a attenuation, as we call it, aspects of 00:10:18.993 --> 00:10:20.178 polyurethanes, and they're not giant. 00:10:21.483 --> 00:10:23.733 but they're growing significantly, right? 00:10:23.733 --> 00:10:24.963 And they're opportunities. 00:10:25.293 --> 00:10:28.323 And so we said, look, these are opportunities for us to grow the business. 00:10:28.353 --> 00:10:32.583 And it it, at the time, it was interesting because in 2018, I want 00:10:32.583 --> 00:10:36.378 to think it was, there was a company called Foam Partner, and I went to Mr. 00:10:36.378 --> 00:10:37.953 Paul and I said, we should buy foam. 00:10:38.878 --> 00:10:42.658 And, uh, our European colleagues, mine were, were on board with that. 00:10:42.658 --> 00:10:44.008 They said, phone partners, great. 00:10:44.008 --> 00:10:46.558 It gets into a lot of these spaces that we're involved in. 00:10:46.978 --> 00:10:47.278 Mr. 00:10:47.278 --> 00:10:49.708 Polly was really obsessed with the geography and said, 00:10:49.708 --> 00:10:51.148 look, they're mostly European. 00:10:51.418 --> 00:10:52.438 It doesn't really fit. 00:10:52.438 --> 00:10:54.928 So we took a pass on it and Rec Decel bought them. 00:10:55.270 --> 00:10:58.810 And then we can go through a whole lengthy thing of how that didn't work. 00:10:58.810 --> 00:11:03.490 But what ended up happening is after they had bought 'em, not a year into 00:11:03.490 --> 00:11:09.190 it, they got a hostile takeover offer from Grinder, which is another Foamer 00:11:09.190 --> 00:11:14.260 who had been partners with recti sell in a joint venture in Eastern Europe. 00:11:14.550 --> 00:11:16.770 that's a whole different, like I said, a whole nother hour 00:11:16.877 --> 00:11:17.167 victoria-meyer_1_08-14-2025_091758: Yeah. 00:11:17.670 --> 00:11:18.810 brad-guest15_1_08-14-2025_101758: on the details of that. 00:11:19.080 --> 00:11:20.160 But needless to say. 00:11:20.565 --> 00:11:22.455 Uh, rectus cell didn't want to be. 00:11:22.485 --> 00:11:25.395 Hostly took over, so they reached out to the industry. 00:11:25.395 --> 00:11:29.388 They reached out to us and they said, Would you be interested in being the 00:11:29.388 --> 00:11:31.548 White Knight in this, in this situation? 00:11:31.548 --> 00:11:34.758 So, you know, the foam partner business was already interesting to me. 00:11:34.758 --> 00:11:38.448 Rectus Cell was kind of combining their technical foam and comfort 00:11:38.448 --> 00:11:39.828 business with foam partners. 00:11:40.218 --> 00:11:42.648 Uh, the board said, is this something you're interested in? 00:11:42.888 --> 00:11:46.728 We kind of looked at it in, we kind of have four ways we consider growing, right? 00:11:46.788 --> 00:11:49.788 How do we, how do we continue to expand the chemical business? 00:11:50.268 --> 00:11:52.458 How do we diversify flexible foam? 00:11:52.698 --> 00:11:56.118 How do we get some market diversification into the right markets for us? 00:11:56.118 --> 00:11:56.388 Right? 00:11:56.388 --> 00:11:57.558 And geographically. 00:11:57.828 --> 00:12:00.678 And then how do we, how do we look at sustainability as part 00:12:00.678 --> 00:12:02.088 of a strong business case? 00:12:02.088 --> 00:12:05.598 And so when we looked at the rec to sell side of it, it kicked, it 00:12:05.778 --> 00:12:07.278 ticked all four of those boxes. 00:12:07.278 --> 00:12:11.118 So it was easy for our board to say, I understand with Brad with what you're 00:12:11.118 --> 00:12:12.768 saying, carpenter's strategy is. 00:12:13.193 --> 00:12:14.723 That rectus cell fits within that. 00:12:14.723 --> 00:12:16.343 And so they said, go for it. 00:12:16.343 --> 00:12:16.673 Right? 00:12:17.033 --> 00:12:20.063 And that was in April of 2020. 00:12:20.063 --> 00:12:23.003 And we know what was happening in March, April of 2020. 00:12:23.003 --> 00:12:23.663 It was COVID. 00:12:23.723 --> 00:12:27.353 So I, I like to say I was one of the few people flying back and 00:12:27.353 --> 00:12:28.943 forth to Europe during COVID. 00:12:29.243 --> 00:12:33.293 I think when I looked back on it, I had 18 different COVID tests within 00:12:33.375 --> 00:12:34.290 victoria-meyer_1_08-14-2025_091758: Oh geez. 00:12:34.433 --> 00:12:36.023 brad-guest15_1_08-14-2025_101758: tested on the way there, the 00:12:36.023 --> 00:12:37.493 way back while you're there. 00:12:37.853 --> 00:12:40.163 Passed every single one of 'em, by the way, thankfully. 00:12:40.275 --> 00:12:40.695 victoria-meyer_1_08-14-2025_091758: deal. 00:12:40.823 --> 00:12:41.183 brad-guest15_1_08-14-2025_101758: but. 00:12:41.235 --> 00:12:41.745 victoria-meyer_1_08-14-2025_091758: amazing. 00:12:42.153 --> 00:12:44.223 brad-guest15_1_08-14-2025_101758: Really a, a crazy time to kind of 00:12:44.223 --> 00:12:46.353 buy a public company in Europe. 00:12:46.383 --> 00:12:47.703 Well, actually we didn't buy the whole thing. 00:12:47.703 --> 00:12:51.843 We were gonna buy the whole thing and we kind of took a pass on insulation and 00:12:51.843 --> 00:12:55.473 they kept that and we bought, you know, what was two thirds of their business. 00:12:55.473 --> 00:12:59.793 So we, you know, kind of took a publicly traded company in Brussels and put 'em 00:12:59.793 --> 00:13:04.233 into a carpenter private company, which some people on the podcast might not know. 00:13:04.533 --> 00:13:05.913 We're a private company. 00:13:06.303 --> 00:13:09.243 We're celebrating our 75th anniversary this year, so a 00:13:09.270 --> 00:13:10.030 victoria-meyer_1_08-14-2025_091758: Congratulations. 00:13:10.030 --> 00:13:10.990 That's a Big deal too. 00:13:11.085 --> 00:13:12.015 75 years. 00:13:12.015 --> 00:13:12.315 right? 00:13:12.573 --> 00:13:12.933 brad-guest15_1_08-14-2025_101758: Yeah. 00:13:13.230 --> 00:13:13.740 victoria-meyer_1_08-14-2025_091758: It's huge. 00:13:13.918 --> 00:13:16.098 brad-guest15_1_08-14-2025_101758: we, we, saw why it would strategically fit. 00:13:16.938 --> 00:13:20.328 In those regards that that made a lot of sense for us, right? 00:13:20.328 --> 00:13:22.608 To go, go for it, make it happen. 00:13:22.608 --> 00:13:24.708 We did that in the process of that. 00:13:25.128 --> 00:13:29.598 Then we were looking at, uh, so the rec to cell phone partner, business sold 00:13:29.598 --> 00:13:33.258 product into the us but didn't produce any of their own foam in the us so 00:13:33.258 --> 00:13:34.728 we're looking at IT, or North America. 00:13:34.728 --> 00:13:37.038 We're saying, how do we go about doing that? 00:13:37.218 --> 00:13:39.798 If you look at carpenter's facilities, they're really geared 00:13:39.798 --> 00:13:42.348 toward high efficiency, large 00:13:42.645 --> 00:13:42.945 victoria-meyer_1_08-14-2025_091758: Yeah. 00:13:43.578 --> 00:13:44.928 brad-guest15_1_08-14-2025_101758: you know, that type of stuff, and. 00:13:45.543 --> 00:13:50.083 We had a very strong polyol relationship and, and a good industry friendship, 00:13:50.083 --> 00:13:53.323 which I would put an advocate out for people that are in this industry. 00:13:53.563 --> 00:13:54.793 Make friends, right? 00:13:54.793 --> 00:13:58.483 You know, friends come to play in all kinds of things. 00:13:58.483 --> 00:14:01.693 So we were very good friends with the people at AT NCFI. 00:14:02.023 --> 00:14:05.833 They at that time were a single site flexible foam manufacturer 00:14:05.833 --> 00:14:08.323 and really thinking what did they want to do with that? 00:14:08.593 --> 00:14:12.133 They were having good growth in their spray foam, geotechnical other 00:14:12.133 --> 00:14:14.173 businesses, and really trying to say. 00:14:14.923 --> 00:14:16.933 flexible foam for us or is it not? 00:14:16.933 --> 00:14:19.543 They had been involved in it since the 1960s, right? 00:14:19.543 --> 00:14:21.793 It's always hard in a legacy business, what to do. 00:14:22.693 --> 00:14:24.583 I just kinda asked them, I said, well, would you be 00:14:24.583 --> 00:14:26.323 interested in selling that to us? 00:14:26.353 --> 00:14:29.833 And they were kinda like, aren't you a little busy with, uh, rectus cell? 00:14:29.833 --> 00:14:31.723 And I said, yeah, but I think your business. 00:14:32.113 --> 00:14:36.780 Fits that plan for us, it's, it's really like a custom shop for us. 00:14:36.780 --> 00:14:41.760 And so we we're kind of, the NCFI fit is really as a custom, custom 00:14:41.760 --> 00:14:45.570 colors, custom formulations, custom products opportunity for us. 00:14:45.570 --> 00:14:49.650 So, you know, bringing stuff from, instead of importing it from Europe, 00:14:49.770 --> 00:14:51.450 domesticating it, those kinds of things. 00:14:51.450 --> 00:14:54.180 And that's where those two pieces came together. 00:14:54.180 --> 00:14:58.300 Casper was a whole different thing, in and of itself, but those two kind 00:14:58.300 --> 00:14:59.980 of dovetailed into each other pretty 00:15:00.112 --> 00:15:00.412 victoria-meyer_1_08-14-2025_091758: That. 00:15:00.802 --> 00:15:01.132 Okay. 00:15:01.132 --> 00:15:04.852 So that really makes sense 'cause it really is this geographic diversification 00:15:04.852 --> 00:15:08.122 and product diversification to strengthen your business. 00:15:08.515 --> 00:15:08.845 brad-guest15_1_08-14-2025_101758: Right. 00:15:09.232 --> 00:15:10.672 victoria-meyer_1_08-14-2025_091758: what is the Casper story? 00:15:10.672 --> 00:15:13.132 So first of all, I just gotta say like. 00:15:13.147 --> 00:15:15.223 I, I'm a chemical engineer. 00:15:15.433 --> 00:15:18.823 I've been in the chemical industry for a long time, but as you and I both 00:15:18.823 --> 00:15:21.763 know, like you sit in certain parts of the industry and that's what you 00:15:21.763 --> 00:15:25.873 know, so it's rare to understand all the, the thousands of products that 00:15:25.873 --> 00:15:27.873 people, produce and touch and What. 00:15:27.873 --> 00:15:28.353 have you. 00:15:28.593 --> 00:15:30.063 You and I got to know each other. 00:15:30.138 --> 00:15:30.168 Okay. 00:15:30.318 --> 00:15:33.918 Really around the EO value chain and how it plays into surfactants. 00:15:33.918 --> 00:15:37.458 And then there's this whole polyurethane piece, which by the way, I still 00:15:37.458 --> 00:15:41.658 don't stink and understand, but I'm just gonna accept it and go and know 00:15:41.658 --> 00:15:43.278 that I'm using this stuff every day. 00:15:43.642 --> 00:15:47.692 but I think of Carpenter as a chemical company. 00:15:47.697 --> 00:15:49.522 That's how I got to know you. 00:15:50.242 --> 00:15:55.222 And yet you've got this whole consumer business, which I 00:15:55.222 --> 00:15:56.302 guess is where Casper fits in. 00:15:56.976 --> 00:15:59.076 brad-guest15_1_08-14-2025_101758: Yeah, so it, it's interesting from 00:15:59.136 --> 00:16:00.516 the overall perspective, right? 00:16:00.516 --> 00:16:04.553 When I came to Carpenter, I really looked at it as, there's a chemical 00:16:04.553 --> 00:16:09.203 business in here that a lot of people that existed within Carpenter didn't 00:16:09.203 --> 00:16:12.293 know a lot about and weren't familiar with, and I was a chemical guy, right? 00:16:12.293 --> 00:16:16.013 So I looked at that and said, here's an opportunity to grow a 00:16:16.013 --> 00:16:19.673 chemical business with a lot of good resources and assets that. 00:16:20.398 --> 00:16:23.008 don't know that they really un from that side, they didn't really 00:16:23.008 --> 00:16:24.718 understand the chemical side, right? 00:16:24.718 --> 00:16:28.528 So I, here I was, this bridge to say, look, been 20 years 00:16:28.528 --> 00:16:29.578 in the chemical business. 00:16:29.578 --> 00:16:30.658 I understand it. 00:16:30.898 --> 00:16:32.548 Let's get the right team in place. 00:16:32.548 --> 00:16:33.928 Let's build something here. 00:16:34.138 --> 00:16:35.308 Let's give us the opportunity. 00:16:35.308 --> 00:16:35.968 And, and Mr. 00:16:35.968 --> 00:16:39.103 Polly and the management of Carpenter at the time we're fantastic because 00:16:39.103 --> 00:16:42.268 they were like, we'll let you do what you think is best on it. 00:16:42.268 --> 00:16:44.398 Which is a freedom that you don't normally get. 00:16:44.428 --> 00:16:44.818 I mean, 00:16:45.305 --> 00:16:45.605 victoria-meyer_1_08-14-2025_091758: Yeah. 00:16:45.610 --> 00:16:46.130 That's amazing. 00:16:46.168 --> 00:16:47.758 brad-guest15_1_08-14-2025_101758: companies, you get promised a lot 00:16:47.758 --> 00:16:51.358 of things, but then to actually be given those things and look, we, 00:16:51.478 --> 00:16:55.078 we like to say here, you know, uh, investment follows profits, right? 00:16:55.140 --> 00:16:55.490 victoria-meyer_1_08-14-2025_091758: Right. 00:16:55.558 --> 00:16:57.778 brad-guest15_1_08-14-2025_101758: if, I had started the chemical business, 00:16:57.778 --> 00:16:59.278 ask for a bunch of money without. 00:16:59.633 --> 00:17:01.883 Having any growth, they would've been like, yeah, no. 00:17:02.093 --> 00:17:02.393 Right. 00:17:02.393 --> 00:17:04.643 But, but we had growth, we had opportunities. 00:17:04.973 --> 00:17:07.223 We were able to grow the business on that side. 00:17:07.523 --> 00:17:10.913 And then gradually I learned more about the flexible, I knew about 00:17:10.913 --> 00:17:13.978 the flexible film business as a supplier of raw materials, but not. 00:17:14.918 --> 00:17:15.998 Really knew the business. 00:17:15.998 --> 00:17:16.478 So I was 00:17:16.605 --> 00:17:16.865 victoria-meyer_1_08-14-2025_091758: Right. 00:17:16.958 --> 00:17:19.478 brad-guest15_1_08-14-2025_101758: that for that 10 years I kind of was sitting in 00:17:19.478 --> 00:17:23.978 meetings and attending things and learning kind of on the periphery about the 00:17:23.978 --> 00:17:26.318 business and how it works and how it fits. 00:17:26.378 --> 00:17:26.708 Right. 00:17:26.708 --> 00:17:31.398 And when you look at making a flexible foam, flexible foams, polyurethanes in 00:17:31.398 --> 00:17:33.108 general have been around for 90 years. 00:17:33.168 --> 00:17:36.138 So, you know, we can, I can talk long about. 00:17:36.328 --> 00:17:38.878 The polyurethane space, 'cause I've been in it a long time, but 00:17:38.878 --> 00:17:41.098 it's, it's a 90 year technology. 00:17:41.368 --> 00:17:44.608 I think the current estimate market size is, it's around a hundred 00:17:44.608 --> 00:17:46.498 billion dollar market worldwide. 00:17:47.085 --> 00:17:47.385 victoria-meyer_1_08-14-2025_091758: Wow. 00:17:47.638 --> 00:17:49.858 brad-guest15_1_08-14-2025_101758: significant chemical business. 00:17:49.858 --> 00:17:50.188 Right. 00:17:50.188 --> 00:17:51.568 And you got great. 00:17:51.698 --> 00:17:57.338 Companies in it like BASF and Covestro and Huntsman and Ivan and right? 00:17:57.338 --> 00:18:01.268 I mean, there's lots of really good companies in that space, and some of 00:18:01.268 --> 00:18:04.358 them are broad and they cover other markets of the chemical industry 00:18:04.358 --> 00:18:05.888 and some are more niche, right? 00:18:05.888 --> 00:18:07.238 And they specialize in those. 00:18:07.628 --> 00:18:10.928 But there's a lot of great chemistry going on, and in a flexible foam, 00:18:11.228 --> 00:18:14.858 about half of the foam itself that you're sitting on or sleeping on. 00:18:15.943 --> 00:18:16.243 right? 00:18:16.243 --> 00:18:20.113 So Carpenter 50 years ago, 53 years ago now said, Hey, we 00:18:20.113 --> 00:18:22.093 should make our own polio, right? 00:18:22.093 --> 00:18:26.683 We should have some control over that because not only did it make economic 00:18:26.683 --> 00:18:30.373 sense, but it also made sense when you're trying to develop and innovate products, 00:18:30.373 --> 00:18:34.423 if you're always having to go to somebody else to say, can you do this for me? 00:18:34.708 --> 00:18:37.873 They have to decide if that's a good business decision for them or not. 00:18:38.763 --> 00:18:43.023 a lot of the technology gets evolved from the additives and the polyols themselves, 00:18:43.023 --> 00:18:47.463 how long chain polyol you're making, you know, how many branches in the chain. 00:18:47.463 --> 00:18:50.883 So we're able to kind of work with those tools to kind of tailor new 00:18:50.883 --> 00:18:53.103 products from the chemical business. 00:18:53.103 --> 00:18:57.543 So it's, it's great to have that base load of business to run a chemical 00:18:57.543 --> 00:18:58.688 business off of where you have. 00:18:59.613 --> 00:19:03.303 A significant amount of what you're doing is being consumed internally for what 00:19:03.303 --> 00:19:07.893 we're doing, and that parlays itself into a little bit of the discussion on Casper. 00:19:07.893 --> 00:19:10.443 And you, some people might be like, where's he going with all of this? 00:19:10.443 --> 00:19:10.713 Right. 00:19:11.013 --> 00:19:12.648 So historically. 00:19:13.258 --> 00:19:16.648 Prior to maybe 15 years ago, 12 years ago, something like that. 00:19:17.048 --> 00:19:19.898 The channels to market and the roles that people played were 00:19:19.898 --> 00:19:21.218 pretty straightforward, right? 00:19:21.218 --> 00:19:22.478 Carpenter made foam. 00:19:22.838 --> 00:19:26.258 If people came to us and they wanted to buy a block of foam, we sold it to 'em. 00:19:26.258 --> 00:19:29.378 If they wanted us to cut pieces and shapes, we did that for 'em. 00:19:29.738 --> 00:19:32.768 They would come to us sometimes and say, we want carpenter to contract 00:19:32.768 --> 00:19:36.758 manufacturer the whole mattress for us and ship it to our warehouse, or whatever. 00:19:37.088 --> 00:19:39.288 That was the role we played, and it was a great role that. 00:19:39.638 --> 00:19:44.588 That went in, but with kind of the bed in a box and some of the other disruptors 00:19:44.588 --> 00:19:48.368 that were going on, and with technology, the channels started getting muddied. 00:19:48.368 --> 00:19:48.638 Right. 00:19:48.638 --> 00:19:49.178 And so you 00:19:49.285 --> 00:19:49.665 victoria-meyer_1_08-14-2025_091758: Yeah. 00:19:49.988 --> 00:19:51.938 brad-guest15_1_08-14-2025_101758: people going upstream and downstream. 00:19:52.268 --> 00:19:55.898 You know, people that have kind of moved upstream or are the Ashleys of the world, 00:19:56.378 --> 00:19:58.268 uh, temper, Sealy pours their own foam. 00:19:58.268 --> 00:20:00.338 So you have people now that are pouring their own foam. 00:20:00.638 --> 00:20:03.368 You have people that are, are doing various things in there. 00:20:03.368 --> 00:20:05.978 So it's not a clear A to B2C channel. 00:20:06.308 --> 00:20:07.808 And so you're like, okay, what roles. 00:20:08.488 --> 00:20:09.658 everybody playing in this? 00:20:09.658 --> 00:20:11.398 What roles will they play in the future? 00:20:11.758 --> 00:20:14.908 Casper was one of the original bed in a Box people, so they were 00:20:14.908 --> 00:20:16.588 one of the original disruptors. 00:20:16.948 --> 00:20:20.548 A lot of people may not remember that they early on had investors 00:20:20.548 --> 00:20:24.928 like Leonardo DiCaprio and, and Ashton Kutcher and others. 00:20:24.928 --> 00:20:27.178 They were, they were, they were a hot star. 00:20:27.178 --> 00:20:29.518 I think at the time they called those companies unicorns. 00:20:29.518 --> 00:20:29.878 Right. 00:20:29.885 --> 00:20:30.755 victoria-meyer_1_08-14-2025_091758: Yeah. 00:20:31.648 --> 00:20:33.808 brad-guest15_1_08-14-2025_101758: they had a lot of interest and a lot of buzz. 00:20:34.238 --> 00:20:35.108 Uh, around it. 00:20:35.108 --> 00:20:37.748 And their message originally was, you don't need to go to 00:20:37.748 --> 00:20:39.158 a store to buy a mattress. 00:20:39.158 --> 00:20:40.358 You can just buy it online. 00:20:40.358 --> 00:20:41.528 We're cutting out the middleman. 00:20:41.528 --> 00:20:45.908 And that was effective marketing and it grew significantly from, but 00:20:45.908 --> 00:20:48.758 what they realized is when you're making a big ticket purchase. 00:20:49.088 --> 00:20:52.538 And, and a refrigerator, a, a mattress, a car. 00:20:52.958 --> 00:20:55.178 People like to touch and feel that product. 00:20:55.178 --> 00:20:58.718 And so there's a significant number of people that won't buy unless 00:20:58.718 --> 00:21:01.838 they can put their hands on it and actually see it for themselves. 00:21:02.168 --> 00:21:05.288 So Casper started launching stores to support that. 00:21:05.528 --> 00:21:06.368 They started getting, 00:21:06.495 --> 00:21:06.575 victoria-meyer_1_08-14-2025_091758: Hmm. 00:21:06.908 --> 00:21:08.228 brad-guest15_1_08-14-2025_101758: with other retails to do what's 00:21:08.228 --> 00:21:09.608 called omnichannel, right? 00:21:09.608 --> 00:21:12.068 So that they could get the product in front of more people. 00:21:12.638 --> 00:21:15.338 And as they did that, they were raising money and then they 00:21:15.338 --> 00:21:16.913 went public, uh, with that. 00:21:17.623 --> 00:21:21.883 Um, and they poured a lot of money into making the brand successful. 00:21:22.280 --> 00:21:22.610 victoria-meyer_1_08-14-2025_091758: Yeah. 00:21:22.633 --> 00:21:24.043 brad-guest15_1_08-14-2025_101758: say they didn't do, and when the 00:21:24.043 --> 00:21:27.368 role carpenter came in is they didn't look after the making of the product. 00:21:28.253 --> 00:21:31.673 Really well, they made a great product that's not, don't take that wrong 00:21:31.673 --> 00:21:35.693 and say this, but they, they weren't manufacturers, so they didn't really, 00:21:35.693 --> 00:21:38.423 they would farm out to different people and they would go around 00:21:38.423 --> 00:21:41.453 quarter to quarter and they would have different people making it for 'em. 00:21:41.813 --> 00:21:45.203 And you think, well, that's okay, as long as people can conform to the 00:21:45.203 --> 00:21:46.883 standards and the specifications. 00:21:47.183 --> 00:21:48.893 But if you're not really focused on. 00:21:50.273 --> 00:21:53.303 If you're not only focused on the actual production and you're not 00:21:53.303 --> 00:21:58.073 focused on what's your cost to deliver the product, things get outta hand. 00:21:58.073 --> 00:22:03.763 And so they came to us, at the end of 2023 and they were like, you know, we 00:22:03.763 --> 00:22:05.593 need help with the manufacturing side. 00:22:05.593 --> 00:22:07.958 And we looked at it and said, boy, you know, we've got. 00:22:08.523 --> 00:22:12.663 11 locations around the, around US and Canada that we can ship from. 00:22:12.993 --> 00:22:16.143 We may not ship from all of them, but just on a brief logistics, 00:22:16.143 --> 00:22:19.803 we were able to improve their cost structure with that and. 00:22:20.723 --> 00:22:23.243 I think if the market had been better, right? 00:22:23.243 --> 00:22:26.333 If the furniture demand and bedding demand had been better than it 00:22:26.333 --> 00:22:28.163 was the last two or three years, 00:22:28.600 --> 00:22:28.970 victoria-meyer_1_08-14-2025_091758: Yeah. 00:22:29.033 --> 00:22:30.353 brad-guest15_1_08-14-2025_101758: been sufficient for 'em, and they 00:22:30.353 --> 00:22:34.913 would've been able to, to, let's say, grow their way through this process. 00:22:34.943 --> 00:22:38.963 But as we all know, the market hasn't been what we'd want it to be, and so 00:22:38.963 --> 00:22:44.363 the combination of that plus some high kind of overhead costs related to. 00:22:44.753 --> 00:22:47.643 Leases of, corporate headquarters and other things like that. 00:22:47.943 --> 00:22:50.763 They just struggled and we looked at it and said, we think 00:22:50.763 --> 00:22:52.353 we can, we can help them right? 00:22:52.353 --> 00:22:53.883 The ship if we took it over. 00:22:53.883 --> 00:23:00.453 and really that was, was how we came about the Casper side of, of the business. 00:23:00.453 --> 00:23:02.823 And it's, it's a learning curve, definitely. 00:23:03.003 --> 00:23:03.243 So. 00:23:03.285 --> 00:23:05.325 victoria-meyer_1_08-14-2025_091758: I bet, and in fact I wanna come around 00:23:05.325 --> 00:23:08.295 to that learning curve piece and, and how you're bringing this all together. 00:23:08.295 --> 00:23:12.930 But what's interesting is, number one, I'm not remember that Casper was the original. 00:23:13.555 --> 00:23:14.695 Bed in a box, right? 00:23:14.695 --> 00:23:18.415 So I think of Casper and I see 'em at Costco, for instance. 00:23:18.475 --> 00:23:21.445 I don't, there are probably other places, I gotta be honest, 00:23:21.595 --> 00:23:22.855 I don't get out much anymore. 00:23:23.815 --> 00:23:27.115 Not since COVID, not since I've worked, I do everything outta my house. 00:23:27.115 --> 00:23:27.985 It's kind of crazy. 00:23:28.285 --> 00:23:31.615 But what's interesting about this story, and it's a story of 00:23:31.615 --> 00:23:38.005 a lot of innovative companies throughout, um, probably the late. 00:23:38.470 --> 00:23:39.760 Like the late 2010. 00:23:39.760 --> 00:23:42.340 So probably in the same timeframe that Casper started up, let's say 00:23:42.340 --> 00:23:49.390 2018 till now, and is that, um, it was this idea that a business, a billion 00:23:49.390 --> 00:23:53.830 dollar business could be grown on the strength of the brand and the strength 00:23:53.830 --> 00:23:58.330 of marketing and that all of the production could be contracted out. 00:23:58.330 --> 00:23:58.600 So. 00:23:58.870 --> 00:24:01.990 that, it sounds like that was at least part of the Casper story. 00:24:02.290 --> 00:24:05.950 . I'm thinking about Kylie Jenner, which we don't normally talk about Kylie Jenner 00:24:06.160 --> 00:24:10.630 on the show, but she had her lip thing and my, You know, I have a daughter, 00:24:10.630 --> 00:24:14.320 so they were all obsessed about the lip thing, but I still remember Kylie 00:24:14.320 --> 00:24:21.010 Jenner had like a billion dollar business valuation and didn't own a thing. 00:24:21.700 --> 00:24:25.930 Because it was all contract labs, contract manufacturing, et cetera. 00:24:25.960 --> 00:24:27.910 Now, where it is today, who the heck knows? 00:24:27.910 --> 00:24:28.420 I don't know. 00:24:28.420 --> 00:24:32.073 But I think it's an interesting just kind of sign of the times and the 00:24:32.073 --> 00:24:36.573 evolution that we've gone through in business is this idea that yeah, 00:24:36.573 --> 00:24:42.183 you can start small and nimble and outsourcing things, but eventually. 00:24:42.493 --> 00:24:46.063 As people across the industry know you have to get your cost under control, 00:24:46.063 --> 00:24:49.063 you actually have to get your supply chain under control, your logistics, 00:24:49.063 --> 00:24:51.133 manufacturing, um, et cetera. 00:24:51.133 --> 00:24:54.133 So, uh, that's a really, that's a really interesting story. 00:24:54.833 --> 00:24:59.667 But with this, so this is my part, I'm turning it back, is, carpenter's really, 00:25:00.147 --> 00:25:06.417 I mean, 75-year-old company, strong culture, what I would say is a very 00:25:06.627 --> 00:25:08.787 traditional culture in a lot of ways. 00:25:09.147 --> 00:25:14.127 You've brought three businesses into the fold in the last several 00:25:14.127 --> 00:25:16.767 years, that is a lot of change. 00:25:16.977 --> 00:25:22.503 So how are you guys navigating it, both in terms of figuring out how to bring 00:25:22.503 --> 00:25:28.713 those teams into carpenter, but also carpenter growing and embracing the 00:25:28.713 --> 00:25:30.483 best of what those companies bring? 00:25:31.073 --> 00:25:33.473 brad-guest15_1_08-14-2025_101758: it's a fantastic question and I, I hope 00:25:33.473 --> 00:25:36.863 that if we, if we get together this five years from now, you'd say, wow. 00:25:36.863 --> 00:25:40.703 That, look at how that all has come together, as you know, perfectly right? 00:25:40.703 --> 00:25:44.963 It's early on, you were talking about, hey, uh, you know, it's a crazy time, 00:25:45.053 --> 00:25:46.563 but, you know, thinking back on it. 00:25:46.925 --> 00:25:49.085 I think crazy is more than normal, right? 00:25:49.085 --> 00:25:49.475 The, the 00:25:49.622 --> 00:25:49.952 victoria-meyer_1_08-14-2025_091758: Yeah. 00:25:50.015 --> 00:25:50.585 brad-guest15_1_08-14-2025_101758: kind of thing. 00:25:50.585 --> 00:25:56.555 We can talk about 2008 into 2009 with the subprime mortgage situation. 00:25:56.915 --> 00:26:01.385 I'm sure in 15 or 16 I can find a hurricane that screwed things up, right? 00:26:01.502 --> 00:26:02.012 victoria-meyer_1_08-14-2025_091758: Oh yeah. 00:26:02.555 --> 00:26:03.215 brad-guest15_1_08-14-2025_101758: post COVID. 00:26:03.455 --> 00:26:06.275 So I'm not sure that normal, we like to, as humans, we probably 00:26:06.275 --> 00:26:09.665 like to think normal is the normal state of things, but probably. 00:26:09.945 --> 00:26:13.815 Chaos is more than normal and calm is probably the exception. 00:26:14.265 --> 00:26:17.715 Uh, and it's probably disheartening for lots of people to hear, but uh, 00:26:18.045 --> 00:26:21.645 you know, you just look back on it and you kind of have to be, I, I guess, 00:26:21.645 --> 00:26:23.655 adaptive and flexible in that, in that 00:26:23.702 --> 00:26:23.972 victoria-meyer_1_08-14-2025_091758: Yeah. 00:26:24.075 --> 00:26:25.755 brad-guest15_1_08-14-2025_101758: And that's somewhat the approach 00:26:25.755 --> 00:26:27.915 that we've taken a little bit with the acquisitions, right? 00:26:27.915 --> 00:26:30.015 When you're, when you're picking up a rectus cell, and 00:26:30.015 --> 00:26:31.335 as I mentioned, rectus cell. 00:26:31.735 --> 00:26:34.795 Had just recently acquired a company called Foam Partner, right? 00:26:34.795 --> 00:26:38.815 Which was a distinct different entity and people and foam partner. 00:26:38.815 --> 00:26:41.995 Three years before that, three or four had acquired a, a small 00:26:42.175 --> 00:26:44.005 systems house called Autobox, right? 00:26:44.005 --> 00:26:48.475 So you have these three different cultures rolling up into a company 00:26:48.475 --> 00:26:49.705 that then you pick up, right? 00:26:49.705 --> 00:26:50.935 So you really have four. 00:26:51.360 --> 00:26:55.710 Cultures and what you find is some people gravitate to the carpenter 00:26:55.710 --> 00:26:57.180 culture really easy, right? 00:26:57.337 --> 00:26:57.627 victoria-meyer_1_08-14-2025_091758: Yeah. 00:26:57.720 --> 00:26:59.310 brad-guest15_1_08-14-2025_101758: get there, they go, wow, 00:26:59.310 --> 00:27:00.780 I get it, I understand it. 00:27:00.780 --> 00:27:01.800 I fit right in. 00:27:01.980 --> 00:27:02.700 Away we go. 00:27:02.790 --> 00:27:06.630 And then you have a group of people that are, I get it or I understand it, but 00:27:06.630 --> 00:27:08.190 it's gonna take me a while to get it. 00:27:08.520 --> 00:27:13.260 You have some people that, that, you know, good people, good managers who look at it 00:27:13.260 --> 00:27:15.390 and say, this just is not for me, right? 00:27:15.390 --> 00:27:16.170 This is not. 00:27:16.560 --> 00:27:17.970 And sometimes those people. 00:27:18.380 --> 00:27:18.920 Hang on. 00:27:18.920 --> 00:27:21.260 And they try to make it work and we try to make it work. 00:27:21.260 --> 00:27:24.290 And, and ultimately they get frustrated. 00:27:24.290 --> 00:27:27.340 We get frustrated, and they leave, right? 00:27:27.340 --> 00:27:30.340 And so we didn't take the approach like in the beginning, we're gonna 00:27:30.340 --> 00:27:33.820 do this, we're gonna, we're gonna move head count from here to here. 00:27:33.820 --> 00:27:35.350 We're gonna consolidate, we're gonna do that. 00:27:35.350 --> 00:27:38.860 So we said, let's sit with the organization, let's understand 00:27:38.860 --> 00:27:40.450 it, let's understand the people. 00:27:40.720 --> 00:27:44.500 A good example that I would give is if you have a, a small manufacturing 00:27:44.500 --> 00:27:46.525 plant you go to 'em and you say. 00:27:47.740 --> 00:27:51.100 You're the division manager of that plant and you say, who are your best people? 00:27:51.850 --> 00:27:53.440 give you their five best people. 00:27:53.680 --> 00:27:57.700 You go to the next plant in a, in, maybe you go from Norway to Finland, and you 00:27:57.700 --> 00:27:58.990 ask 'em for their five best people. 00:27:59.650 --> 00:28:02.650 may not be the same roles at one, one job to 00:28:02.657 --> 00:28:02.877 victoria-meyer_1_08-14-2025_091758: Hmm. 00:28:03.070 --> 00:28:04.660 brad-guest15_1_08-14-2025_101758: So if you said, we're gonna eliminate 00:28:04.660 --> 00:28:08.170 this, somebody's gonna say, I'm fine with that, because that 00:28:08.170 --> 00:28:09.670 person wasn't that great anyway. 00:28:09.850 --> 00:28:11.770 The next person's gonna have a complete freak 00:28:11.942 --> 00:28:12.512 victoria-meyer_1_08-14-2025_091758: Yeah. 00:28:12.670 --> 00:28:14.230 brad-guest15_1_08-14-2025_101758: you're taking away my best person. 00:28:14.290 --> 00:28:14.650 Right. 00:28:14.680 --> 00:28:19.660 So I think you know, as much as the, maybe that's not the textbook way of doing it. 00:28:19.660 --> 00:28:22.090 You'd say, Hey, let's get to lean right away. 00:28:22.090 --> 00:28:23.350 Let's do these kinds of things. 00:28:23.770 --> 00:28:28.090 You know, you end up throwing out people who can make significant changes to your. 00:28:28.300 --> 00:28:30.790 Company and your culture and significant improvements. 00:28:30.790 --> 00:28:34.360 And it takes a little bit to figure out who those people are, right? 00:28:34.475 --> 00:28:37.180 And, and so we've kind of taken that approach. 00:28:37.510 --> 00:28:38.830 It's been a little bit challenging, right? 00:28:38.830 --> 00:28:41.920 Because of the, if the economy was booming, you'd be like, Hey, this is 00:28:41.920 --> 00:28:45.790 great, you know, but you always look back and say, are you moving fast enough? 00:28:45.790 --> 00:28:46.510 Are you too slow? 00:28:46.510 --> 00:28:47.440 Are you too fast? 00:28:47.440 --> 00:28:48.640 You know, it's, it's, uh. 00:28:49.300 --> 00:28:52.030 You know, when people say, what are the things that keep you awake at night? 00:28:52.030 --> 00:28:55.330 Some of that is for me, where it's like, are we going fast enough? 00:28:55.330 --> 00:28:56.440 Are we going too fast? 00:28:56.440 --> 00:28:58.330 Where's the right pace of change? 00:28:58.810 --> 00:29:02.140 Because again, you mentioned three acquisitions is a lot even for 00:29:02.410 --> 00:29:05.980 Legacy Carpenter people, which is not the way we've done it to take on. 00:29:05.980 --> 00:29:06.520 So you're always 00:29:06.532 --> 00:29:06.882 victoria-meyer_1_08-14-2025_091758: Right. 00:29:07.780 --> 00:29:10.090 brad-guest15_1_08-14-2025_101758: and I'm a, I'm a real people, first person. 00:29:10.210 --> 00:29:13.960 I mean, people would get to know me, would see that and say, you know, 00:29:14.110 --> 00:29:18.580 probably first and foremost I'm thinking, the right people in the right chairs. 00:29:18.970 --> 00:29:21.950 Make them, feel like they're part of that process and then 00:29:22.010 --> 00:29:23.810 the results will, will follow. 00:29:23.840 --> 00:29:24.110 Right? 00:29:24.110 --> 00:29:27.860 And so I'm really sensitive, like, are we, how fast are we moving? 00:29:27.860 --> 00:29:30.110 Or not fast enough in some of those kinds of things. 00:29:30.110 --> 00:29:30.410 So. 00:29:30.542 --> 00:29:31.022 victoria-meyer_1_08-14-2025_091758: Yeah. 00:29:31.022 --> 00:29:35.132 Well, and I think you also, I I, I would absolutely recognize, I think 00:29:35.132 --> 00:29:37.622 you're definitely people first, and your people would say that as well. 00:29:37.622 --> 00:29:40.232 The, the people I know that you work with, that work with you. 00:29:41.258 --> 00:29:44.498 I think that's such a great thing because I think sometimes, especially, 00:29:45.128 --> 00:29:48.818 you know, if you look at private equity across the industry as taking 00:29:48.818 --> 00:29:52.268 a bigger role, you could, you know, I think it's always been right. 00:29:52.268 --> 00:29:52.388 So. 00:29:52.388 --> 00:29:54.398 again, back to this whole, there's always this evolution. 00:29:54.698 --> 00:30:01.058 Um, it's often about just sheer dollars as opposed to the longevity of the business. 00:30:01.118 --> 00:30:04.718 Um, and that's one of the opportunities I guess you guys as carpenter have. 00:30:05.363 --> 00:30:10.853 Given that you're a private company, you have a bit more leeway in terms 00:30:10.853 --> 00:30:15.143 of reaching those goals, that it's, that you're not trying to hit an 00:30:15.143 --> 00:30:20.033 artificial quarterly target that your stockholders are looking for. 00:30:20.033 --> 00:30:21.953 And I know that your Shareholders. 00:30:21.953 --> 00:30:24.773 are looking for profitability and longevity and all that, right? 00:30:24.773 --> 00:30:26.723 They're all, every, every owner is doing that. 00:30:27.053 --> 00:30:29.333 But that you have a bit more leeway to. 00:30:30.068 --> 00:30:34.293 Create that plan to grow to that vision, um, and make things happen. 00:30:35.786 --> 00:30:38.476 brad-guest15_1_08-14-2025_101758: Well, a, a friend of mine, that I got to work 00:30:38.476 --> 00:30:42.346 with on the Rectus Cell deal, I didn't know him before Epic, a good friend. 00:30:42.706 --> 00:30:45.886 He gave me this phrase that I, that I like a lot, and it kind of resonates 00:30:45.886 --> 00:30:49.906 well within how we look at Carpenter, which he said Sales is vanity. 00:30:50.511 --> 00:30:53.511 Profit is sanity, but cash is reality, right? 00:30:53.511 --> 00:30:57.671 And so we are very focused on, is what we're doing building cash 00:30:57.671 --> 00:30:59.351 or is it taking away from cash? 00:30:59.373 --> 00:30:59.793 victoria-meyer_1_08-14-2025_091758: Yeah. 00:30:59.801 --> 00:31:02.051 brad-guest15_1_08-14-2025_101758: that's not just a, you know, alright, we're just 00:31:02.051 --> 00:31:03.521 looking at the windshield all the time. 00:31:03.521 --> 00:31:07.151 We're looking down the road, you know, we, we've invested 00:31:07.211 --> 00:31:08.856 you simple things like you say. 00:31:09.651 --> 00:31:11.781 put a betting line in X location. 00:31:12.531 --> 00:31:16.071 You know, a lot of times that is a million dollar plus investment. 00:31:16.521 --> 00:31:18.351 And you say, okay, let's think about that. 00:31:18.351 --> 00:31:21.651 And then you look at maybe a return on investment and say, okay, that's 00:31:21.651 --> 00:31:23.151 a three to five year payback. 00:31:23.391 --> 00:31:25.281 Sometimes that's right within that payback. 00:31:25.281 --> 00:31:29.691 And sometimes you get a win where it pays back in a year and a half or two years. 00:31:29.691 --> 00:31:29.991 Right. 00:31:29.991 --> 00:31:33.681 And the chemical side, those investments go up exponentially. 00:31:33.681 --> 00:31:33.951 Right? 00:31:33.951 --> 00:31:34.941 Investments aren't. 00:31:35.891 --> 00:31:37.751 to three to five to $10 million. 00:31:37.751 --> 00:31:40.031 They're 30 to 50 to a hundred million. 00:31:40.031 --> 00:31:44.771 And sometimes if you're a really big boy like a Lionel or a BSF or somebody, 00:31:44.771 --> 00:31:46.871 they're billions of dollars, right? 00:31:46.871 --> 00:31:48.628 And, significant stuff. 00:31:48.628 --> 00:31:50.158 And so you have to really say, okay. 00:31:50.638 --> 00:31:53.968 Is this the right thing to do 10 years from now or 00:31:54.200 --> 00:31:54.530 victoria-meyer_1_08-14-2025_091758: Hmm. 00:31:54.628 --> 00:31:55.048 brad-guest15_1_08-14-2025_101758: from now? 00:31:55.348 --> 00:31:58.378 I think Peter Huntsman was alluding to that on one of your earlier 00:31:58.378 --> 00:31:59.548 discussions with him, right? 00:31:59.548 --> 00:32:03.328 You have to be looking down the road and saying, I think that this is the 00:32:03.328 --> 00:32:05.128 right geography, the right market. 00:32:05.428 --> 00:32:08.548 You know, I getting him back to the rectus sell side or the European side. 00:32:08.548 --> 00:32:11.698 I had somebody, don't know, it was probably now two years ago, 00:32:11.698 --> 00:32:14.158 said, you know, it's interesting, you're one of the few people, a 00:32:14.158 --> 00:32:15.808 few companies investing in Europe, 00:32:16.160 --> 00:32:17.480 victoria-meyer_1_08-14-2025_091758: Yeah, I was gonna ask about that. 00:32:17.480 --> 00:32:17.900 Yeah. 00:32:17.933 --> 00:32:19.403 brad-guest15_1_08-14-2025_101758: Yeah, I, I said, look, we, we 00:32:19.403 --> 00:32:20.843 go to where the consumers are, 00:32:21.080 --> 00:32:21.740 victoria-meyer_1_08-14-2025_091758: Yeah. 00:32:21.773 --> 00:32:24.233 brad-guest15_1_08-14-2025_101758: customers are people in the middle 00:32:24.233 --> 00:32:28.853 to upper middle class people who want to have a high quality sofa, 00:32:29.183 --> 00:32:32.363 and everybody wants to have high quality bed in sofa, but not everybody 00:32:32.363 --> 00:32:34.163 can afford those kinds of things. 00:32:34.163 --> 00:32:37.373 And so when we look at it, and I fundamentally come back to it saying 00:32:37.373 --> 00:32:39.383 the European consumer has money. 00:32:39.820 --> 00:32:42.730 They, even after you get through all this, they will still have money. 00:32:43.090 --> 00:32:47.140 They may be, they may be less well off down the next 15 or 20 years, 00:32:47.140 --> 00:32:48.940 but they still got money to spend. 00:32:49.572 --> 00:32:49.692 victoria-meyer_1_08-14-2025_091758: Hmm. 00:32:50.020 --> 00:32:53.020 brad-guest15_1_08-14-2025_101758: on us and our customers to find reasons for that 00:32:53.020 --> 00:32:59.515 consumer to say, I wanna buy what they're offering We think local production, 00:32:59.575 --> 00:33:03.685 you know our stuff and we talked about exporting stuff from Europe to the us. 00:33:03.925 --> 00:33:05.455 That's not a long-term play for us. 00:33:05.455 --> 00:33:07.195 Our job is to export stuff. 00:33:07.225 --> 00:33:08.395 Is to make stuff, sorry. 00:33:08.695 --> 00:33:09.475 In the region. 00:33:09.475 --> 00:33:10.405 For the region, right. 00:33:10.405 --> 00:33:10.885 We're making 00:33:10.922 --> 00:33:11.242 victoria-meyer_1_08-14-2025_091758: Yeah. 00:33:11.605 --> 00:33:12.655 brad-guest15_1_08-14-2025_101758: For North America. 00:33:12.955 --> 00:33:16.615 If we're making something in India or China, we're making it for that market. 00:33:16.615 --> 00:33:18.235 It's not to export it somewhere else. 00:33:18.935 --> 00:33:21.815 And so we're really focused on what are the consumers and what 00:33:21.815 --> 00:33:23.645 are the companies in that region. 00:33:23.975 --> 00:33:26.825 And so that's the reason why when people ask, you know, Hey, you're, 00:33:26.945 --> 00:33:29.855 you're, you're big in Europe, do you plan to stay that way? 00:33:30.065 --> 00:33:33.985 I look at it and say, yes, getting into the European side, right? 00:33:33.985 --> 00:33:38.695 So you look at that and you say, all right, I, I'm like Peter Huntsman. 00:33:38.695 --> 00:33:42.895 With this regard, I'm a big advocate of the chemical industry in Europe, right? 00:33:42.895 --> 00:33:44.515 I think the chemical industry in Europe. 00:33:45.385 --> 00:33:49.045 to survive and needs to thrive because of, of two things. 00:33:49.105 --> 00:33:50.695 One, I need the chemicals. 00:33:50.695 --> 00:33:54.925 So selfishly I want them to do it, but the more manufacturing jobs they have, 00:33:54.925 --> 00:33:58.645 call me old fashioned, the better off their consumers are and the more able 00:33:58.645 --> 00:34:00.565 their consumers are to spend the money. 00:34:00.565 --> 00:34:00.925 Right. 00:34:01.167 --> 00:34:01.457 victoria-meyer_1_08-14-2025_091758: Yeah. 00:34:01.465 --> 00:34:03.415 brad-guest15_1_08-14-2025_101758: you just outsource all of that, then 00:34:03.415 --> 00:34:07.165 at what point does that, is it, you know, not a, a sustainable loop? 00:34:07.345 --> 00:34:07.465 So, yeah. 00:34:07.742 --> 00:34:08.032 victoria-meyer_1_08-14-2025_091758: Yeah. 00:34:08.272 --> 00:34:09.022 I'm with you on that. 00:34:09.022 --> 00:34:12.592 In fact, that's one of the biggest things I see as I keep seeing 00:34:12.592 --> 00:34:17.422 announcement after announcement of shutdown of assets in Europe is those 00:34:17.422 --> 00:34:19.492 are, it's a lot of job loss like. 00:34:20.618 --> 00:34:22.298 What are those people going to do? 00:34:22.298 --> 00:34:26.918 Because I do think that manufacturing roles are critical and we know 00:34:26.918 --> 00:34:30.458 that manufacturing actually enhances communities, right? 00:34:30.458 --> 00:34:36.678 So, a CC has done some work that says that for every one job at a chemical 00:34:36.678 --> 00:34:41.268 plant, there's five to six jobs in the surrounding community, whether 00:34:41.268 --> 00:34:43.788 it be schools or taxi drivers, or. 00:34:44.360 --> 00:34:45.980 Whatever, all the things, restaurants. 00:34:46.220 --> 00:34:50.210 And so I think about that aspect of if we start pulling production away 00:34:50.210 --> 00:34:54.740 from regions, number one, it at the end of the day, and, you know, if 00:34:54.740 --> 00:34:59.090 you think about from a sustainability perspective as well, transportation 00:34:59.090 --> 00:35:01.220 is not our most sustainable activity. 00:35:01.550 --> 00:35:03.560 Sar all the transportation people. 00:35:03.770 --> 00:35:08.590 But you know, buying local, inherently has some sustainability benefits, 00:35:08.590 --> 00:35:15.310 but also this aspect of continuing to develop people, communities, the 00:35:15.310 --> 00:35:19.195 financials in those communities, et cetera, is really, really critical. 00:35:20.308 --> 00:35:22.798 brad-guest15_1_08-14-2025_101758: I mean at, at Carpenter we make stuff right? 00:35:22.798 --> 00:35:23.008 And, 00:35:23.215 --> 00:35:23.505 victoria-meyer_1_08-14-2025_091758: Yeah. 00:35:23.728 --> 00:35:25.078 brad-guest15_1_08-14-2025_101758: of the fact that we make stuff 00:35:25.078 --> 00:35:29.608 and I'm, and I'm happy when young people, engineers or whatever want 00:35:29.613 --> 00:35:31.173 to get involved in manufacturing. 00:35:31.173 --> 00:35:31.453 Right? 00:35:31.453 --> 00:35:35.308 Because I think making stuff a great way, it's been a great career for 00:35:35.555 --> 00:35:35.845 victoria-meyer_1_08-14-2025_091758: Yeah. 00:35:36.673 --> 00:35:39.763 brad-guest15_1_08-14-2025_101758: Roughly 7,000 employees now worldwide. 00:35:39.763 --> 00:35:44.113 And you know, some of those, obviously with Casper in the retail side, but, but 00:35:44.113 --> 00:35:50.353 fully 90% plus are in the manufacturing process in some form or fashion. 00:35:50.353 --> 00:35:50.593 Right? 00:35:50.593 --> 00:35:53.323 They're at the plant, they're helping to move the product to the 00:35:53.323 --> 00:35:54.913 customers, whatever it is, right? 00:35:54.943 --> 00:35:55.363 And. 00:35:55.853 --> 00:35:58.013 Those jobs are important to everybody. 00:35:58.013 --> 00:36:00.113 They're important to the, the people's families. 00:36:00.113 --> 00:36:03.173 They're important to the communities and, and they're involved in. 00:36:03.533 --> 00:36:06.773 One of the, the great things I like as a private company that that always 00:36:06.773 --> 00:36:10.523 brings a smile to my face is people will come to us and they've retired or 00:36:10.793 --> 00:36:13.763 they've been out in the community for a while, and they'll say, you know, I 00:36:14.003 --> 00:36:17.933 spent my whole career at Carpenter and because of your profit sharing plan. 00:36:18.268 --> 00:36:20.398 I, I have a really great retirement, right? 00:36:20.398 --> 00:36:20.578 And 00:36:20.755 --> 00:36:21.275 victoria-meyer_1_08-14-2025_091758: Yeah. 00:36:21.553 --> 00:36:24.118 brad-guest15_1_08-14-2025_101758: Carpenter, back in the day, the, the, 00:36:24.118 --> 00:36:28.618 the story goes that he was visiting a plant in North Carolina and saw an old 00:36:28.678 --> 00:36:31.708 gentleman working on the production line, went over and started talking to him and 00:36:31.708 --> 00:36:35.818 said, you know, and, and the guy basically alluded his, I can't afford to retire. 00:36:35.818 --> 00:36:38.003 And so on the, on the trip back, he said. 00:36:38.603 --> 00:36:41.183 don't want anybody to work at Carpenter because they have to. 00:36:41.183 --> 00:36:43.073 I want 'em to work here because they want to. 00:36:43.403 --> 00:36:45.383 So they started a profit sharing plan, right? 00:36:45.383 --> 00:36:48.893 And so we have a 401k, but we have a profit sharing plan. 00:36:48.893 --> 00:36:52.553 And it's really great to see people who've worked 30 years with the company 00:36:52.553 --> 00:36:56.423 say, I can afford a nice retirement because of the profit sharing plan. 00:36:56.453 --> 00:36:56.693 You know, 00:36:56.770 --> 00:36:57.970 victoria-meyer_1_08-14-2025_091758: That's really nice. 00:36:58.013 --> 00:37:00.113 brad-guest15_1_08-14-2025_101758: borrow against their 401k or they make. 00:37:00.753 --> 00:37:04.203 Bad long term decisions for the short term, but if you have a profit 00:37:04.203 --> 00:37:06.813 sharing plan, you can look back and say, we're trying to do the right 00:37:06.813 --> 00:37:09.873 things for somebody who says, I wanna make a career out of working here. 00:37:10.570 --> 00:37:10.810 victoria-meyer_1_08-14-2025_091758: Yeah. 00:37:10.978 --> 00:37:12.448 brad-guest15_1_08-14-2025_101758: there's, there's no better, I'm probably 00:37:12.448 --> 00:37:15.508 smiling a lot right now as we're talking about it, because to me, that's 00:37:15.508 --> 00:37:17.398 making a difference in people's lives. 00:37:17.398 --> 00:37:21.448 And so we really, at Carpenter, we say our, our purpose is to enhance 00:37:21.448 --> 00:37:22.678 the quality of people's lives. 00:37:22.678 --> 00:37:25.738 And a lot of times people draw an immediate connection to a 00:37:25.738 --> 00:37:27.148 furniture or a mattress, right? 00:37:27.178 --> 00:37:28.018 Oh, well, I get it. 00:37:28.018 --> 00:37:29.158 That's an easy connection. 00:37:29.488 --> 00:37:33.388 But people aren't just the customers, they're our employees as well, right? 00:37:33.388 --> 00:37:35.398 So we want to enhance the quality of their lives. 00:37:35.738 --> 00:37:36.848 Through what we're doing. 00:37:36.848 --> 00:37:39.428 We want their jobs to have purpose and meaning. 00:37:39.788 --> 00:37:40.088 You know, 00:37:40.225 --> 00:37:40.495 victoria-meyer_1_08-14-2025_091758: Yeah. 00:37:40.508 --> 00:37:42.218 brad-guest15_1_08-14-2025_101758: the, one of the earlier podcasts 00:37:42.218 --> 00:37:44.108 that you had was on ai, right? 00:37:44.108 --> 00:37:45.698 And so that's a big question, right? 00:37:45.698 --> 00:37:49.418 Is what, is AI gonna play the role if it can do everything 00:37:49.418 --> 00:37:52.028 for, for the basic level stuff? 00:37:52.028 --> 00:37:54.908 How does a young person coming into the industry get trained? 00:37:55.638 --> 00:37:55.908 Right. 00:37:55.938 --> 00:37:58.038 And maybe, maybe I'm missing the boat. 00:37:58.038 --> 00:38:01.908 Maybe they just, it's a different way of working five years from now and, and we 00:38:01.908 --> 00:38:05.628 say that's okay, that they don't have to have the basic blocking and tackling that 00:38:05.700 --> 00:38:05.990 victoria-meyer_1_08-14-2025_091758: Yeah. 00:38:06.108 --> 00:38:07.368 brad-guest15_1_08-14-2025_101758: or I had in the industry. 00:38:07.368 --> 00:38:11.088 I don't know the answer to that, but it is a question of like, how does a, 00:38:11.178 --> 00:38:15.228 uh, a lawyer become a seasoned lawyer if they don't do the junior lawyer? 00:38:15.868 --> 00:38:16.168 Right. 00:38:16.168 --> 00:38:18.088 And so for us it's the same kind of thing. 00:38:18.358 --> 00:38:21.208 We want to, we want to use AI to free people up. 00:38:21.238 --> 00:38:26.188 We want to take away the 20% of their job that is, is rote and, and, and 00:38:26.188 --> 00:38:30.328 doesn't have high value so that they can get more value out of their job. 00:38:30.508 --> 00:38:32.638 You know, that's how we're looking at the AI side. 00:38:32.755 --> 00:38:33.085 victoria-meyer_1_08-14-2025_091758: Yeah. 00:38:33.088 --> 00:38:34.978 brad-guest15_1_08-14-2025_101758: we have any answers on it, but 00:38:34.978 --> 00:38:36.748 it, it is very much a okay. 00:38:37.228 --> 00:38:40.918 Somebody gets rid of the 20% they were doing, that frees up their capacity 00:38:40.918 --> 00:38:43.228 to do more value added, right? 00:38:43.228 --> 00:38:44.578 That's our approach to ai. 00:38:44.578 --> 00:38:48.778 We're not anywhere we need to be yet on it, and, but we think that that's kind 00:38:48.778 --> 00:38:51.213 of the right path to think of ai, so. 00:38:51.460 --> 00:38:52.720 victoria-meyer_1_08-14-2025_091758: I, I think that's right. 00:38:52.720 --> 00:38:58.480 I think this whole idea of a, I don't think AI replaces relationships. 00:38:58.780 --> 00:39:01.300 It doesn't replace critical thinking. 00:39:01.433 --> 00:39:01.853 brad-guest15_1_08-14-2025_101758: Mm-hmm. 00:39:02.020 --> 00:39:03.100 victoria-meyer_1_08-14-2025_091758: but maybe it replaces the, 00:39:03.100 --> 00:39:04.510 really, the basic stuff. 00:39:04.510 --> 00:39:08.860 I mean, you know, if you think about it, back in the day, people used to, um. 00:39:08.915 --> 00:39:12.875 Take letters from point to point via the pony Express. 00:39:12.905 --> 00:39:15.305 Well, we now can text people. 00:39:15.965 --> 00:39:17.285 We still need to communicate. 00:39:17.375 --> 00:39:17.735 Right? 00:39:17.735 --> 00:39:20.855 So it's changed, it's faster. 00:39:20.885 --> 00:39:25.055 It's actually created, uh, so much more communication. 00:39:25.055 --> 00:39:28.670 I mean, you know, we started out talking earlier, maybe before we got on the 00:39:28.670 --> 00:39:32.795 thing about, you know, kids in college and what have you, and I used to go 00:39:32.795 --> 00:39:34.580 walk down the hall to the payphone. 00:39:35.635 --> 00:39:38.455 To call my parents when I'm encompass in college. 00:39:38.935 --> 00:39:44.305 My kids are sending me multiple text messages, calling me, doing whatever 00:39:44.712 --> 00:39:50.262 communication has amplified, not gotten less through the use of technology. 00:39:50.267 --> 00:39:50.387 I, 00:39:50.535 --> 00:39:52.215 brad-guest15_1_08-14-2025_101758: expectations have changed a lot 00:39:52.287 --> 00:39:52.577 victoria-meyer_1_08-14-2025_091758: yeah, 00:39:52.665 --> 00:39:54.555 brad-guest15_1_08-14-2025_101758: know, you, you talk about the phone, right? 00:39:54.885 --> 00:39:59.325 Your parents were probably thankful to get a call on Sunday night once a week, right? 00:39:59.325 --> 00:39:59.445 You 00:39:59.457 --> 00:39:59.807 victoria-meyer_1_08-14-2025_091758: right. 00:39:59.955 --> 00:40:00.495 brad-guest15_1_08-14-2025_101758: Now. 00:40:00.495 --> 00:40:05.205 Now, if you don't respond to your, your wife's text or your kids' text within five 00:40:05.205 --> 00:40:09.435 minutes, they're they're pointing fingers referring to the thing they sent you 00:40:09.435 --> 00:40:10.935 five minutes ago, and you're like, look. 00:40:11.165 --> 00:40:12.635 I'm in the middle of something, right? 00:40:12.732 --> 00:40:13.542 victoria-meyer_1_08-14-2025_091758: Yeah. 00:40:13.775 --> 00:40:15.365 brad-guest15_1_08-14-2025_101758: as a, as a young sales guy, right, 00:40:15.365 --> 00:40:18.215 you were, you would go to the payphone to get your messages, right? 00:40:18.215 --> 00:40:20.765 It's, it sounds like I'm from the 1930s, right? 00:40:20.765 --> 00:40:23.555 And we lived in black and white, but you did that stuff. 00:40:23.855 --> 00:40:27.575 But when email came along, you sent an email to somebody and the expectations 00:40:27.575 --> 00:40:31.895 around email was you gave the person the information and when they had their 00:40:31.895 --> 00:40:33.365 answer ready, they would get back to you. 00:40:34.252 --> 00:40:34.602 victoria-meyer_1_08-14-2025_091758: Right. 00:40:34.635 --> 00:40:35.955 brad-guest15_1_08-14-2025_101758: That's completely foreign. 00:40:35.955 --> 00:40:39.465 Now, the idea that, that you send an email to somebody in the next two or 00:40:39.465 --> 00:40:40.995 three days, they would get back to you. 00:40:41.145 --> 00:40:45.345 There's a lot of people that would be like, is not how email works today. 00:40:45.375 --> 00:40:45.705 Right. 00:40:45.705 --> 00:40:45.945 and 00:40:45.957 --> 00:40:48.147 victoria-meyer_1_08-14-2025_091758: I know it's a little crazy, in fact. 00:40:48.315 --> 00:40:48.585 brad-guest15_1_08-14-2025_101758: Right? 00:40:48.705 --> 00:40:49.035 Yeah. 00:40:49.647 --> 00:40:50.127 victoria-meyer_1_08-14-2025_091758: Yeah. 00:40:50.295 --> 00:40:51.195 brad-guest15_1_08-14-2025_101758: it's just different. 00:40:51.195 --> 00:40:54.585 And I think AI will make things different in the future and we'll look back on it 00:40:54.597 --> 00:40:55.077 victoria-meyer_1_08-14-2025_091758: Yeah. 00:40:55.215 --> 00:40:56.625 brad-guest15_1_08-14-2025_101758: Hmm, that was pretty crazy 00:40:56.625 --> 00:40:58.035 that we used to do this 00:40:58.308 --> 00:40:58.488 victoria-meyer_1_08-14-2025_091758: yeah. 00:40:58.488 --> 00:40:59.688 What are you guys doing digitally? 00:40:59.688 --> 00:41:02.988 I know you've talked about ai and I think about, again, I go back to 00:41:02.988 --> 00:41:08.148 thinking about Carpenter as being in, in a lot of ways, an old school company, 00:41:08.148 --> 00:41:12.738 and yet I know that you've used a lot of digital across your businesses. 00:41:12.738 --> 00:41:16.038 So what's, what are you guys doing and where are your priorities when 00:41:16.038 --> 00:41:17.478 we think about digital and ai? 00:41:18.336 --> 00:41:20.961 brad-guest15_1_08-14-2025_101758: so I, I, I kind of set a broad like 00:41:20.961 --> 00:41:24.741 strategy, you want to call it that way, but the phrase I use internally is we 00:41:24.741 --> 00:41:27.861 want to get the right information to the right people at the right time. 00:41:28.176 --> 00:41:28.506 Right. 00:41:28.776 --> 00:41:30.486 And I think those three things are important. 00:41:30.486 --> 00:41:30.816 Right. 00:41:30.821 --> 00:41:31.041 You, 00:41:31.458 --> 00:41:31.748 victoria-meyer_1_08-14-2025_091758: Yeah. 00:41:31.896 --> 00:41:33.366 brad-guest15_1_08-14-2025_101758: there's a lot of information right? 00:41:34.371 --> 00:41:35.901 There's a lot of bad information. 00:41:35.901 --> 00:41:37.821 There's a lot of not useful information. 00:41:37.821 --> 00:41:39.681 And how do people sort through that? 00:41:39.981 --> 00:41:42.531 You and I have been in the industry for a long time, so we're using 00:41:42.531 --> 00:41:46.011 our judgment to decide that this piece of information is good or bad. 00:41:46.341 --> 00:41:49.671 Somebody who's just coming into the industry doesn't have that 00:41:49.671 --> 00:41:52.521 kind of experience, so how do they know the information that's coming 00:41:52.521 --> 00:41:54.321 to 'em is useful or not useful? 00:41:54.591 --> 00:41:56.555 I can use, the laboratory side, right? 00:41:56.555 --> 00:41:59.195 So they get some information maybe out of AI that says. 00:41:59.696 --> 00:42:01.916 This is how you should create a starter formulation. 00:42:02.186 --> 00:42:05.336 They have no judgment to know whether that's a good starting point or a bad 00:42:05.336 --> 00:42:08.636 starting point where a 15 year chemist looks at and says, you know what? 00:42:09.056 --> 00:42:10.136 We went down that road. 00:42:10.136 --> 00:42:10.766 We tried it. 00:42:10.766 --> 00:42:11.666 It didn't quite work. 00:42:11.666 --> 00:42:12.926 Start at this point. 00:42:12.926 --> 00:42:13.766 Not at that point. 00:42:13.766 --> 00:42:14.036 Right? 00:42:14.243 --> 00:42:14.663 victoria-meyer_1_08-14-2025_091758: Yeah. 00:42:15.056 --> 00:42:16.016 brad-guest15_1_08-14-2025_101758: so Right. 00:42:16.016 --> 00:42:17.021 Information is important. 00:42:17.666 --> 00:42:19.016 the right people, right? 00:42:19.016 --> 00:42:23.336 So a salesperson needs information, and, and that's what they are, is 00:42:23.336 --> 00:42:26.846 they're purveyors of information to the customer and back, and they're, 00:42:26.846 --> 00:42:28.346 they're helping facilitate, right? 00:42:28.346 --> 00:42:28.616 They're the 00:42:28.683 --> 00:42:28.973 victoria-meyer_1_08-14-2025_091758: Yeah. 00:42:29.876 --> 00:42:30.746 brad-guest15_1_08-14-2025_101758: of what's going on. 00:42:30.746 --> 00:42:34.136 So the point guard needs to know what play the coach wants to run. 00:42:34.436 --> 00:42:36.716 He needs to get the players in the right spot, and he needs 00:42:36.716 --> 00:42:37.716 to deliver the past to them. 00:42:38.396 --> 00:42:39.296 At the right time. 00:42:39.296 --> 00:42:39.536 Right? 00:42:39.536 --> 00:42:42.056 It doesn't do you any good to throw a pass when a guy's being 00:42:42.056 --> 00:42:43.706 guarded, he's gotta get open, right? 00:42:43.706 --> 00:42:46.856 And so right time, right place, you know, right. 00:42:46.856 --> 00:42:47.576 Information. 00:42:47.576 --> 00:42:49.916 All that is the broad category. 00:42:49.916 --> 00:42:53.606 And then the, the how to make it happen is where the real difficulty comes in. 00:42:53.606 --> 00:42:53.756 It's 00:42:53.903 --> 00:42:54.233 victoria-meyer_1_08-14-2025_091758: Yeah. 00:42:54.566 --> 00:42:57.116 brad-guest15_1_08-14-2025_101758: as a CEO to say, here's the broad vision, right? 00:42:57.146 --> 00:43:01.166 Just right people, right, right place, right information, right time. 00:43:01.346 --> 00:43:02.651 You know, that sounds easy. 00:43:02.651 --> 00:43:05.921 And then you say, what softwares do I need to put in to do that? 00:43:06.161 --> 00:43:11.171 And we got various teams, you know, we got 30, I think it's 32, but over 00:43:11.171 --> 00:43:13.481 30 places that pour foam, right? 00:43:13.751 --> 00:43:14.051 And they 00:43:14.063 --> 00:43:14.363 victoria-meyer_1_08-14-2025_091758: Hmm. 00:43:14.441 --> 00:43:16.061 brad-guest15_1_08-14-2025_101758: on a continuous basis around the 00:43:16.061 --> 00:43:19.691 world, and they're generating data and information off of how 00:43:19.721 --> 00:43:21.461 that production's going every day. 00:43:21.881 --> 00:43:25.691 How do you take all those trillions of bytes of information, put 00:43:25.691 --> 00:43:27.431 'em into a useful thing so that. 00:43:28.151 --> 00:43:33.131 What we learned in, in, in Finland somehow makes its way to California. 00:43:33.311 --> 00:43:36.881 And so when the guy in California is gonna do this, he gets information 00:43:36.881 --> 00:43:39.671 and the system helps them waste. 00:43:39.761 --> 00:43:40.121 Right? 00:43:40.136 --> 00:43:40.356 and, 00:43:40.373 --> 00:43:40.763 victoria-meyer_1_08-14-2025_091758: Yeah. 00:43:41.336 --> 00:43:42.881 brad-guest15_1_08-14-2025_101758: and, and how do we do that? 00:43:42.881 --> 00:43:45.461 And we have customers that require. 00:43:45.785 --> 00:43:47.345 Perfect cell structure, let's say. 00:43:47.345 --> 00:43:49.115 So foam cellular material, 00:43:49.142 --> 00:43:49.382 victoria-meyer_1_08-14-2025_091758: Sure. 00:43:49.385 --> 00:43:51.005 brad-guest15_1_08-14-2025_101758: they have specifications that it can 00:43:51.005 --> 00:43:53.375 only be between one and five microns. 00:43:53.375 --> 00:43:57.695 And, and so you're trying to pour foam that's exactly perfect all the time and 00:43:57.695 --> 00:43:59.585 you need information and AI to do that. 00:43:59.795 --> 00:44:02.405 And you have other customers that, that's the antithesis. 00:44:02.405 --> 00:44:05.735 If you pour two uniform, it creates a problem. 00:44:05.735 --> 00:44:06.065 Right? 00:44:06.065 --> 00:44:06.425 So 00:44:06.707 --> 00:44:06.797 victoria-meyer_1_08-14-2025_091758: Hmm. 00:44:06.925 --> 00:44:08.645 brad-guest15_1_08-14-2025_101758: you're, trying to meet those needs. 00:44:09.080 --> 00:44:12.200 In varying categories for what the customer wants. 00:44:12.200 --> 00:44:12.440 I mean, 00:44:12.702 --> 00:44:12.992 victoria-meyer_1_08-14-2025_091758: Yeah. 00:44:13.130 --> 00:44:15.440 brad-guest15_1_08-14-2025_101758: what we serve the customer is we gotta 00:44:15.440 --> 00:44:19.400 create products the customer believes that they have to have, because 00:44:19.400 --> 00:44:22.580 that makes their product better, different that they can succeed with. 00:44:22.580 --> 00:44:25.790 And so we need to understand what their requirements are and how do 00:44:25.790 --> 00:44:29.805 we exceed their expectations and do it obviously in a way that we can. 00:44:30.290 --> 00:44:32.960 Be profitable and they can be profitable and everything else. 00:44:32.960 --> 00:44:33.860 But that's 00:44:34.007 --> 00:44:34.067 victoria-meyer_1_08-14-2025_091758: Yeah. 00:44:34.100 --> 00:44:36.410 brad-guest15_1_08-14-2025_101758: that type of information is really hard to 00:44:36.410 --> 00:44:38.600 kind of coalesce and, and get around. 00:44:38.600 --> 00:44:41.420 But that's what we're working towards in that regard, is 00:44:41.420 --> 00:44:43.040 supporting those kinds of things. 00:44:43.370 --> 00:44:43.640 So 00:44:43.772 --> 00:44:44.342 victoria-meyer_1_08-14-2025_091758: That's awesome. 00:44:44.470 --> 00:44:45.190 we are running. 00:44:45.250 --> 00:44:47.710 Um, I think we're running out of time, but I'm gonna give you one final 00:44:47.710 --> 00:44:49.120 question and then we're gonna wrap this. 00:44:49.337 --> 00:44:52.757 and as you know, I know you're, you listened, uh, loyally to the 00:44:52.757 --> 00:44:54.092 podcast and hopefully you listen. 00:44:54.617 --> 00:44:55.667 All the way through. 00:44:55.953 --> 00:44:59.163 so my final question is what's, let's talk about leadership. 00:44:59.193 --> 00:45:03.993 What's one piece of leadership advice, career leadership advice that you would 00:45:04.023 --> 00:45:09.633 offer to someone early in their career that perhaps started in sales and looked 00:45:09.633 --> 00:45:13.867 around and not knowing what else they were doing, that maybe ultimately leads 00:45:13.987 --> 00:45:17.647 to them being a CEO or to them just being super successful in their career? 00:45:17.647 --> 00:45:19.267 What would, what advice do you offer. 00:45:19.990 --> 00:45:21.910 brad-guest15_1_08-14-2025_101758: I would, I actually have two pieces of 00:45:21.910 --> 00:45:24.100 advice if I can, uh, double dip on it. 00:45:24.247 --> 00:45:24.607 victoria-meyer_1_08-14-2025_091758: Yeah, 00:45:24.670 --> 00:45:26.320 brad-guest15_1_08-14-2025_101758: first piece of advice I I give 00:45:26.320 --> 00:45:31.120 to people is nobody wants to give you your next job unless you're 00:45:31.120 --> 00:45:32.710 doing well in your current job. 00:45:32.980 --> 00:45:36.370 And a lot of times people lose track and they think about the next thing and 00:45:36.370 --> 00:45:38.230 they drop the ball on the current thing. 00:45:38.980 --> 00:45:41.950 you're doing a really good job in what you're doing, if you're the 00:45:41.950 --> 00:45:45.310 best in what you're doing, or one of the top people, people look around 00:45:45.310 --> 00:45:46.475 and they value that and they say. 00:45:47.230 --> 00:45:50.980 I think that person's capable of doing more, But if you, if you're not 00:45:50.980 --> 00:45:53.320 doing a very good job and you raise your hand and you say, I want to do 00:45:53.320 --> 00:45:57.280 something more, they're like, he, she's not even handling what they got. 00:45:57.280 --> 00:45:58.450 Why would I give them more? 00:45:59.042 --> 00:45:59.392 victoria-meyer_1_08-14-2025_091758: Right. 00:45:59.530 --> 00:46:02.140 brad-guest15_1_08-14-2025_101758: my, my message is, be really good at what 00:46:02.140 --> 00:46:04.525 you're doing and you'll get recognized. 00:46:04.525 --> 00:46:07.630 And if you don't get recognized in your current company, shame on them. 00:46:08.350 --> 00:46:10.900 get recognized by somebody else in the industry who looks 00:46:10.900 --> 00:46:12.370 at that person and says that. 00:46:13.240 --> 00:46:14.980 the old man phrase that kid's a winner. 00:46:14.980 --> 00:46:15.310 Right? 00:46:15.310 --> 00:46:15.700 We want 00:46:15.962 --> 00:46:16.202 victoria-meyer_1_08-14-2025_091758: Yeah. 00:46:16.300 --> 00:46:17.440 brad-guest15_1_08-14-2025_101758: team, let's get 'em right. 00:46:17.830 --> 00:46:22.390 And I think the other one is, uh, and, and is to, is someone put it this way, 00:46:22.390 --> 00:46:26.380 I think it was in actually Ted Lasso of All Things said to be curious, right? 00:46:26.800 --> 00:46:30.670 So a lot of people think that the learning stops when they get the degree and. 00:46:30.905 --> 00:46:33.245 And that, yeah, you move along at a slower pace. 00:46:33.245 --> 00:46:34.475 You kind of learn your job. 00:46:34.955 --> 00:46:39.485 But in, for me to, to become the CEO, not only did I have to do a good job 00:46:39.485 --> 00:46:42.905 running the chemical business, right, and, and I had to be recognized for that. 00:46:43.625 --> 00:46:46.685 I had to be somebody that asked questions and started to understand 00:46:46.685 --> 00:46:47.885 about the other businesses. 00:46:47.915 --> 00:46:48.725 'cause I don't think Mr. 00:46:48.725 --> 00:46:51.545 Polly would've looked at it and said, yeah, he's a chemical industry. 00:46:51.925 --> 00:46:56.185 Expert, but how do I project him being an expert of all these other things 00:46:56.185 --> 00:46:59.515 that you have to, you have to know, but it was because I was involved and 00:46:59.515 --> 00:47:03.025 I was curious, and I learned and asked questions, and they could kind of see, 00:47:03.115 --> 00:47:06.865 well, he's got an interest in things that are beyond just the chemical 00:47:06.867 --> 00:47:07.107 victoria-meyer_1_08-14-2025_091758: Yeah. 00:47:07.225 --> 00:47:07.525 brad-guest15_1_08-14-2025_101758: Right? 00:47:07.525 --> 00:47:10.015 So they, they looked at it and said, he's curious. 00:47:10.105 --> 00:47:11.035 He's capable. 00:47:11.305 --> 00:47:11.545 Right? 00:47:11.545 --> 00:47:12.565 He's doing a good job. 00:47:12.595 --> 00:47:13.885 Let's give him an opportunity. 00:47:13.915 --> 00:47:15.775 Now, that was a big opportunity, right? 00:47:15.775 --> 00:47:16.945 And I, it's hard. 00:47:16.945 --> 00:47:18.415 People say, Hey, it's, you know. 00:47:18.850 --> 00:47:22.410 Is there, there's a fair bit of luck or, destiny or whatever you want to 00:47:22.410 --> 00:47:26.100 call it in that way, you know, uh, that type of thing that, that happens to it. 00:47:26.100 --> 00:47:27.810 There's, you know, um, you know, 00:47:27.912 --> 00:47:29.472 victoria-meyer_1_08-14-2025_091758: in the right place at the right time. 00:47:29.472 --> 00:47:31.242 There's a lot to be said for that. 00:47:31.242 --> 00:47:31.632 Yeah, 00:47:32.160 --> 00:47:33.450 brad-guest15_1_08-14-2025_101758: others, they have turnover. 00:47:33.660 --> 00:47:34.560 They have great people. 00:47:34.560 --> 00:47:37.860 You're like, why did somebody get that CEO job and somebody. 00:47:38.985 --> 00:47:42.105 There's lots of factors that go into that that are beyond just 00:47:42.105 --> 00:47:43.275 the two things I was giving 00:47:43.417 --> 00:47:43.707 victoria-meyer_1_08-14-2025_091758: Yeah. 00:47:43.815 --> 00:47:46.665 brad-guest15_1_08-14-2025_101758: there is a bit of that whatever luck element 00:47:46.665 --> 00:47:50.355 or how people wanna look at those things that are, that's out of your control. 00:47:50.655 --> 00:47:52.935 But you can only control the two things I'm giving you. 00:47:52.935 --> 00:47:55.785 You can control how good you're doing at your job and you control 00:47:55.965 --> 00:47:58.185 how much curiosity you have. 00:47:58.245 --> 00:48:01.215 And if you put those things in control, then the other stuff 00:48:01.215 --> 00:48:02.325 you can't really worry about. 00:48:02.535 --> 00:48:02.805 So. 00:48:02.997 --> 00:48:03.407 victoria-meyer_1_08-14-2025_091758: Love it. 00:48:03.912 --> 00:48:04.182 Love it. 00:48:04.182 --> 00:48:05.982 That is great advice, Brad. 00:48:05.982 --> 00:48:10.752 Thank you Thanks for sharing everything, as always, a great conversation with you. 00:48:10.757 --> 00:48:11.047 Appreciate it. 00:48:12.090 --> 00:48:13.500 brad-guest15_1_08-14-2025_101758: Thank you for the time and I'm 00:48:13.500 --> 00:48:16.290 sorry I didn't have some really big announcement for you, you 00:48:16.482 --> 00:48:18.102 victoria-meyer_1_08-14-2025_091758: Well, actually, I was gonna ask you 00:48:18.102 --> 00:48:21.522 about your new tagline that you, kind of, you know, we make stuff, so, 00:48:21.522 --> 00:48:23.502 is that like, is that the new, the new 00:48:23.730 --> 00:48:24.060 brad-guest15_1_08-14-2025_101758: No, 00:48:24.162 --> 00:48:24.792 victoria-meyer_1_08-14-2025_091758: announcement? 00:48:24.792 --> 00:48:26.142 But I won't put that on you. 00:48:26.265 --> 00:48:26.595 brad-guest15_1_08-14-2025_101758: Yeah. 00:48:26.805 --> 00:48:27.015 Yeah. 00:48:27.072 --> 00:48:27.372 victoria-meyer_1_08-14-2025_091758: It's, 00:48:27.435 --> 00:48:29.145 brad-guest15_1_08-14-2025_101758: people, you know, people often ask 00:48:29.145 --> 00:48:30.705 on the acquisition side, right? 00:48:30.705 --> 00:48:34.005 And, and we, we always remain curious right, uh, 00:48:34.032 --> 00:48:34.212 victoria-meyer_1_08-14-2025_091758: yeah. 00:48:34.245 --> 00:48:35.955 brad-guest15_1_08-14-2025_101758: things and are there opportunities 00:48:35.955 --> 00:48:39.855 for us to partner with people to work, to, you know, fundamentally 00:48:39.855 --> 00:48:41.205 we want to grow our business. 00:48:41.205 --> 00:48:44.085 And so we're, we're open to all avenues of that, but there's 00:48:44.307 --> 00:48:44.817 victoria-meyer_1_08-14-2025_091758: Perfect. 00:48:44.895 --> 00:48:46.875 brad-guest15_1_08-14-2025_101758: that, that I can come on and give you an 00:48:46.875 --> 00:48:48.675 exclusive about something, you know, 00:48:48.927 --> 00:48:49.497 victoria-meyer_1_08-14-2025_091758: That's all right. 00:48:49.497 --> 00:48:50.637 I would not expect it. 00:48:50.637 --> 00:48:50.937 I 00:48:50.985 --> 00:48:52.245 brad-guest15_1_08-14-2025_101758: I'll let you know if there is, 00:48:52.827 --> 00:48:53.877 victoria-meyer_1_08-14-2025_091758: Okay, cool. 00:48:53.937 --> 00:48:54.327 I love it. 00:48:54.687 --> 00:48:54.927 Love it. 00:48:55.107 --> 00:48:55.527 Well, brand. 00:48:55.527 --> 00:48:56.102 Thank you so, much. 00:48:57.780 --> 00:49:00.660 brad-guest15_1_08-14-2025_101758: As always, and I look forward to this one 00:49:00.682 --> 00:49:00.972 victoria-meyer_1_08-14-2025_091758: Okay. 00:49:01.140 --> 00:49:03.240 brad-guest15_1_08-14-2025_101758: all the future ones that you, you put out as well. 00:49:03.450 --> 00:49:03.690 So 00:49:03.747 --> 00:49:04.047 victoria-meyer_1_08-14-2025_091758: thanks. 00:49:04.047 --> 00:49:05.697 Absolutely, and thanks everyone for listening. 00:49:05.697 --> 00:49:09.327 Keep listening, keep following, keep sharing, and we will talk with you soon.