Welcome to The Chemical Show, the podcast where Chemical means business.
I'm your host, Victoria Meyer, bringing you stories and insights
from leaders driving innovation and growth across the chemical industry.
Each week we explore key trends, real world challenges, and the
strategies that make an impact.
Let's get started.
victoria-meyer_1_08-14-2025_091758: Welcome back to The Chemical
Show where Leaders Talk Business.
Today,
i've got a special guest and some of my friends call him the og, the
Chemical Show Guest number one, Mr.
Brad Beauchamp, who is the president and CEO of Carpenter Company, which
is the world's largest producer of comfort cushioning products.
Basically the things you're sitting on sleeping on.
Et cetera.
Brad was last on the podcast in 2022, and at that time he revealed,
um, and dis discussed, we just talked about the cybersecurity
attack that they had survived.
So we've got a whole lot of other things going on.
Today we're gonna be talking about a number of things in turn, including some
of the acquisitions that they've made recently and how those are turning out.
And a few other topics.
And Brad doesn't know this, but I'm really hoping he's gonna make an announcement.
No pressure, Brad.
Um, because I'm feeling a little bit of FOMO right now because as we
record this, Taylor Swift was just on the Kelsey Brothers podcast.
Uh.
New heights and she announced her new album.
So I don't know if Brad's got something big and bold for us
today, but we're gonna find out.
Brad, welcome back to The Chemical Show.
brad-guest15_1_08-14-2025_101758: That's, that's quite the introduction, so I
don't know how, uh, I think it's only downhill from, from here on this, so we'll
victoria-meyer_1_08-14-2025_091758: Well, you know, those, those of us
who know you, know that you're better than Travis, uh, Kelsey and Taylor
Swift, so we can make this happen.
brad-guest15_1_08-14-2025_101758: Yeah, he's got much better hair than I do
victoria-meyer_1_08-14-2025_091758: Yeah.
brad-guest15_1_08-14-2025_101758: in a much bigger bank account, but other
than that I got him beat, you know, so
victoria-meyer_1_08-14-2025_091758: Perfect.
brad-guest15_1_08-14-2025_101758: just, we'll just go from there.
But I, it's a pleasure to be back on.
You know, we were just talking before we started recording how great I think that
this is for the industry overall, and you know, the more people that listen to.
I, I get a lot of feedback from people that say they've heard me or they've heard
others, and they grab things out of it.
And I, I just really, I'm glad that you started this a few years back
and that, uh, you know, obviously honored to be on again, which, happy to
answer whatever questions are on your
victoria-meyer_1_08-14-2025_091758: Yeah.
I love it.
Well, thank you.
I, I appreciate you being here.
And I, and I think actually one of the interesting things, I'm just gonna, um,
throw in this a little bit of a plug.
What's interesting and what I did not anticipate when I started the chemical
show was, was this aspect of kind of just the longevity and the visibility of it.
And we actually did some work, where guests that are on the chemical show,
like on the podcast, end up in numbers.
The average Google search rank is number seven.
So think about it as being above the fold.
And of course, Google owns YouTube.
Everything gets published out to YouTube.
So when people are on the chemical show, they show up.
On YouTube, they show up on Google, they show up around
everywhere, which is really great.
Um, the other interesting thing, Brad, and I don't know if you've had this
experience, but people have told me, and guests on the podcast have told me
that they use these podcast interviews as preparation for their interviews
with a company or, and they're, as they're doing research on an executive
or research on a company, they're like,
i'm talking to executive later this week.
Um, I wanted to hear from their own words what they wanna say,
and, I never expected that.
I think it's just a really cool way of people, getting access to people
and to companies and to insights.
brad-guest15_1_08-14-2025_101758: Yeah, I've, I've had it a, a couple of times
where people, I, I don't know if the term's right, have name dropped it Right.
Have said, oh, you know, before they met me or something, or we sit down, they
said, oh, I happen to catch your podcast, uh you did with the chemical show.
Right.
So, yeah, definitely people are using it as kind of a background to,
victoria-meyer_1_08-14-2025_091758: Yeah.
brad-guest15_1_08-14-2025_101758: research their subjects.
So I, you know,
victoria-meyer_1_08-14-2025_091758: Yeah.
Kind of cool,
brad-guest15_1_08-14-2025_101758: well.
victoria-meyer_1_08-14-2025_091758: cool stuff.
So let's get, let's turn this over to you a little bit, Brad.
'Cause although you're the og, everybody may not really know who you are.
So just gimme a brief introduction to, to you and to how you got
to what you're doing and to c.
brad-guest15_1_08-14-2025_101758: Sure.
I mean, you know, I think that, and one of the interesting things when
you ask the people the questions is, I'm, I'm always interested in what
you call it, their origin story.
Right.
How they got to where they are.
And when you look back on it, you're like, boy, it's, you know.
Grateful Dead.
A long, strange trip.
It's been right.
When I got out of high school in the eighties right.
And going to college, uh, in the Midwest.
So I'm from Chicago originally.
You know, I studied biology and chemistry because I was interested
in those subjects and I was also interested in art and figured you
couldn't make any money in art, so we might as well stick to the sciences.
And then when I graduated, I was like, okay, what are you gonna do with that?
And naive me at the time was like, well, I really can't see myself working in
r and d, so maybe I'll go into sales.
And so I kind of applied to pharmaceutical and chemical companies and in Chicago,
and this'll reflect how old I am.
There was no internet searches.
Right?
You went to the library and you got a book, a list of companies
by, by sector, and you sent out resumes to everywhere and, and.
Several of them came back and, you know, like people like Ecolab and NCO and
things like that that were in Chicago.
And I happened to sign on with, uh, Steppen at the time.
So in 1989, I started my venture into the surfactants in general chemical space,
moving into polymers and everything else.
And then did that for them, in a variety of regions.
Got an MBA.
Moved back to, uh, Chicago.
So I was in Texas for a while, moved back to Chicago, uh, ran a couple
of businesses for them and then left them to come to Carpenter to run the
chemical business at the end of 2008.
And I think you and I first really met each other in 2009 or 2010, um, when you
were with, with, uh, Clarence at the time.
and, uh, then, you know, ran the chemical business at Carpenter for 10 years.
And then Mr.
Polly, who was the owner of the company, asked me to become the president.
I became president in 2018.
He passed away in 2020.
The board said, you're the president, chief Operating Officer.
You should be the CEO.
So I've really been the CEO since 2020.
So when I kind of take a step back and think about that, it's almost five years
as CEO, which seems like five minutes,
victoria-meyer_1_08-14-2025_091758: That's actually a long time for
A CEO as well, not Necessarily.
for privately comp health companies, but for many companies,
five years is the long tenure.
brad-guest15_1_08-14-2025_101758: So it, I was reading an article,
uh, I think it was in the Harvard Business Review, but it might have
been in another place that, that the public, CEO average lifetime is 3.1
years.
didn't see anything about private, but, you know, it is a, it's
definitely a oriented kind of job
victoria-meyer_1_08-14-2025_091758: Yeah.
brad-guest15_1_08-14-2025_101758: it and you, you need to kind of
deliver results and sometimes.
help with that.
And sometimes they hurt with that.
Right.
And if, if you had, like when I signed on in 2020, it was obviously
some crazy stuff with COVID and we talked about, you mentioned earlier,
the cyber stuff, but uh, we also had some good business conditions
in 21 and 22, then we were dealing.
Other business conditions since then and, uh, know, it's a crazy, crazy time and
I'm thankful for the five years that I have and that I've had and look forward
to more years and doing more things.
So.
victoria-meyer_1_08-14-2025_091758: Yeah.
Yeah, And it has been, uh, crazy business conditions.
Really for the last three years, I mean, really the entirety of the twenties.
Twenties has been a little bit crazy.
From a supply chain perspective, uh, just a business ups and downs perspective.
Now we're facing tariffs have been facing tariffs, I guess,
you know, for the last year.
It's not been, uh, not been normal, but I guess nothing is ever really normal, Brad.
But during this time you guys made some big moves.
So you, it's interesting 'cause you talk about.
As a CEO, that it's really about the results and it absolutely is.
And yet it's also about vision, and where you can lead your company.
And so since you've been CEO, I know that you guys have
done several big acquisitions.
Uh, the Rectus Hill acquisition, which.
Really grew the company significantly.
Right.
And I think you would say that's like the first time you guys took on that
big of an acquisition and took on debt.
The Casper mattresses, which some people are probably sleeping on today.
So I want to hear more about that.
Um, and then what NCFI polyurethane.
So tell us a little bit about.
This approach to acquisitions.
What prompted it?
Because again, this is different than carpenter of the old.
Um, and how are you bringing them into the fold and creating results outta that?
brad-guest15_1_08-14-2025_101758: Yeah, that's, uh, we probably could
go on for a couple hours about this, but, uh, I'll try and keep my answers
informative and somewhat brief on it.
So, uh, I would say that, uh, when I became CEO, Mr.
Polly had been with the.
Company for 65 years.
Most people wouldn't appreciate that.
Most people wouldn't think of somebody working at a company for 65 years.
And
victoria-meyer_1_08-14-2025_091758: Yeah.
brad-guest15_1_08-14-2025_101758: do the math, yes, he was, he was in his early
nineties and still came in every day.
Right.
And very influential dynamic leader throughout the industry,
but let alone at Carpenter.
And so, passes away and the board.
Looks to me and says, okay, what's your plan for the business?
Right?
And it's yours now what, what are you gonna do on it?
And you know, you have choices.
You could say, well, this is a successful business.
We'll just ride it out the way it is.
Um, that's really not my nature is to say, let's coast on things.
I'm kind of a, when I go on vacation, my wife like.
To lay by the pool and I like to go do things right.
So it's uh, you know, I'm one of those where I'm like,
okay, how can we be improving?
How can we be getting better?
And so what I sat down with the board and said, there are opportunities
for us to grow our business.
We had a good footprint in Europe, but uh, we weren't the dominant player in Europe.
So I'm like, there's opportunities in Europe.
There's opportunities in the United States in segments that
aren't furniture embedding.
There's growth in automotive that's happening in the EV space.
There's a acoustics, uh, sound, a attenuation, as we call it, aspects of
polyurethanes, and they're not giant.
but they're growing significantly, right?
And they're opportunities.
And so we said, look, these are opportunities for us to grow the business.
And it it, at the time, it was interesting because in 2018, I want
to think it was, there was a company called Foam Partner, and I went to Mr.
Paul and I said, we should buy foam.
And, uh, our European colleagues, mine were, were on board with that.
They said, phone partners, great.
It gets into a lot of these spaces that we're involved in.
Mr.
Polly was really obsessed with the geography and said,
look, they're mostly European.
It doesn't really fit.
So we took a pass on it and Rec Decel bought them.
And then we can go through a whole lengthy thing of how that didn't work.
But what ended up happening is after they had bought 'em, not a year into
it, they got a hostile takeover offer from Grinder, which is another Foamer
who had been partners with recti sell in a joint venture in Eastern Europe.
that's a whole different, like I said, a whole nother hour
victoria-meyer_1_08-14-2025_091758: Yeah.
brad-guest15_1_08-14-2025_101758: on the details of that.
But needless to say.
Uh, rectus cell didn't want to be.
Hostly took over, so they reached out to the industry.
They reached out to us and they said, Would you be interested in being the
White Knight in this, in this situation?
So, you know, the foam partner business was already interesting to me.
Rectus Cell was kind of combining their technical foam and comfort
business with foam partners.
Uh, the board said, is this something you're interested in?
We kind of looked at it in, we kind of have four ways we consider growing, right?
How do we, how do we continue to expand the chemical business?
How do we diversify flexible foam?
How do we get some market diversification into the right markets for us?
Right?
And geographically.
And then how do we, how do we look at sustainability as part
of a strong business case?
And so when we looked at the rec to sell side of it, it kicked, it
ticked all four of those boxes.
So it was easy for our board to say, I understand with Brad with what you're
saying, carpenter's strategy is.
That rectus cell fits within that.
And so they said, go for it.
Right?
And that was in April of 2020.
And we know what was happening in March, April of 2020.
It was COVID.
So I, I like to say I was one of the few people flying back and
forth to Europe during COVID.
I think when I looked back on it, I had 18 different COVID tests within
victoria-meyer_1_08-14-2025_091758: Oh geez.
brad-guest15_1_08-14-2025_101758: tested on the way there, the
way back while you're there.
Passed every single one of 'em, by the way, thankfully.
victoria-meyer_1_08-14-2025_091758: deal.
brad-guest15_1_08-14-2025_101758: but.
victoria-meyer_1_08-14-2025_091758: amazing.
brad-guest15_1_08-14-2025_101758: Really a, a crazy time to kind of
buy a public company in Europe.
Well, actually we didn't buy the whole thing.
We were gonna buy the whole thing and we kind of took a pass on insulation and
they kept that and we bought, you know, what was two thirds of their business.
So we, you know, kind of took a publicly traded company in Brussels and put 'em
into a carpenter private company, which some people on the podcast might not know.
We're a private company.
We're celebrating our 75th anniversary this year, so a
victoria-meyer_1_08-14-2025_091758: Congratulations.
That's a Big deal too.
75 years.
right?
brad-guest15_1_08-14-2025_101758: Yeah.
victoria-meyer_1_08-14-2025_091758: It's huge.
brad-guest15_1_08-14-2025_101758: we, we, saw why it would strategically fit.
In those regards that that made a lot of sense for us, right?
To go, go for it, make it happen.
We did that in the process of that.
Then we were looking at, uh, so the rec to cell phone partner, business sold
product into the us but didn't produce any of their own foam in the us so
we're looking at IT, or North America.
We're saying, how do we go about doing that?
If you look at carpenter's facilities, they're really geared
toward high efficiency, large
victoria-meyer_1_08-14-2025_091758: Yeah.
brad-guest15_1_08-14-2025_101758: you know, that type of stuff, and.
We had a very strong polyol relationship and, and a good industry friendship,
which I would put an advocate out for people that are in this industry.
Make friends, right?
You know, friends come to play in all kinds of things.
So we were very good friends with the people at AT NCFI.
They at that time were a single site flexible foam manufacturer
and really thinking what did they want to do with that?
They were having good growth in their spray foam, geotechnical other
businesses, and really trying to say.
flexible foam for us or is it not?
They had been involved in it since the 1960s, right?
It's always hard in a legacy business, what to do.
I just kinda asked them, I said, well, would you be
interested in selling that to us?
And they were kinda like, aren't you a little busy with, uh, rectus cell?
And I said, yeah, but I think your business.
Fits that plan for us, it's, it's really like a custom shop for us.
And so we we're kind of, the NCFI fit is really as a custom, custom
colors, custom formulations, custom products opportunity for us.
So, you know, bringing stuff from, instead of importing it from Europe,
domesticating it, those kinds of things.
And that's where those two pieces came together.
Casper was a whole different thing, in and of itself, but those two kind
of dovetailed into each other pretty
victoria-meyer_1_08-14-2025_091758: That.
Okay.
So that really makes sense 'cause it really is this geographic diversification
and product diversification to strengthen your business.
brad-guest15_1_08-14-2025_101758: Right.
victoria-meyer_1_08-14-2025_091758: what is the Casper story?
So first of all, I just gotta say like.
I, I'm a chemical engineer.
I've been in the chemical industry for a long time, but as you and I both
know, like you sit in certain parts of the industry and that's what you
know, so it's rare to understand all the, the thousands of products that
people, produce and touch and What.
have you.
You and I got to know each other.
Okay.
Really around the EO value chain and how it plays into surfactants.
And then there's this whole polyurethane piece, which by the way, I still
don't stink and understand, but I'm just gonna accept it and go and know
that I'm using this stuff every day.
but I think of Carpenter as a chemical company.
That's how I got to know you.
And yet you've got this whole consumer business, which I
guess is where Casper fits in.
brad-guest15_1_08-14-2025_101758: Yeah, so it, it's interesting from
the overall perspective, right?
When I came to Carpenter, I really looked at it as, there's a chemical
business in here that a lot of people that existed within Carpenter didn't
know a lot about and weren't familiar with, and I was a chemical guy, right?
So I looked at that and said, here's an opportunity to grow a
chemical business with a lot of good resources and assets that.
don't know that they really un from that side, they didn't really
understand the chemical side, right?
So I, here I was, this bridge to say, look, been 20 years
in the chemical business.
I understand it.
Let's get the right team in place.
Let's build something here.
Let's give us the opportunity.
And, and Mr.
Polly and the management of Carpenter at the time we're fantastic because
they were like, we'll let you do what you think is best on it.
Which is a freedom that you don't normally get.
I mean,
victoria-meyer_1_08-14-2025_091758: Yeah.
That's amazing.
brad-guest15_1_08-14-2025_101758: companies, you get promised a lot
of things, but then to actually be given those things and look, we,
we like to say here, you know, uh, investment follows profits, right?
victoria-meyer_1_08-14-2025_091758: Right.
brad-guest15_1_08-14-2025_101758: if, I had started the chemical business,
ask for a bunch of money without.
Having any growth, they would've been like, yeah, no.
Right.
But, but we had growth, we had opportunities.
We were able to grow the business on that side.
And then gradually I learned more about the flexible, I knew about
the flexible film business as a supplier of raw materials, but not.
Really knew the business.
So I was
victoria-meyer_1_08-14-2025_091758: Right.
brad-guest15_1_08-14-2025_101758: that for that 10 years I kind of was sitting in
meetings and attending things and learning kind of on the periphery about the
business and how it works and how it fits.
Right.
And when you look at making a flexible foam, flexible foams, polyurethanes in
general have been around for 90 years.
So, you know, we can, I can talk long about.
The polyurethane space, 'cause I've been in it a long time, but
it's, it's a 90 year technology.
I think the current estimate market size is, it's around a hundred
billion dollar market worldwide.
victoria-meyer_1_08-14-2025_091758: Wow.
brad-guest15_1_08-14-2025_101758: significant chemical business.
Right.
And you got great.
Companies in it like BASF and Covestro and Huntsman and Ivan and right?
I mean, there's lots of really good companies in that space, and some of
them are broad and they cover other markets of the chemical industry
and some are more niche, right?
And they specialize in those.
But there's a lot of great chemistry going on, and in a flexible foam,
about half of the foam itself that you're sitting on or sleeping on.
right?
So Carpenter 50 years ago, 53 years ago now said, Hey, we
should make our own polio, right?
We should have some control over that because not only did it make economic
sense, but it also made sense when you're trying to develop and innovate products,
if you're always having to go to somebody else to say, can you do this for me?
They have to decide if that's a good business decision for them or not.
a lot of the technology gets evolved from the additives and the polyols themselves,
how long chain polyol you're making, you know, how many branches in the chain.
So we're able to kind of work with those tools to kind of tailor new
products from the chemical business.
So it's, it's great to have that base load of business to run a chemical
business off of where you have.
A significant amount of what you're doing is being consumed internally for what
we're doing, and that parlays itself into a little bit of the discussion on Casper.
And you, some people might be like, where's he going with all of this?
Right.
So historically.
Prior to maybe 15 years ago, 12 years ago, something like that.
The channels to market and the roles that people played were
pretty straightforward, right?
Carpenter made foam.
If people came to us and they wanted to buy a block of foam, we sold it to 'em.
If they wanted us to cut pieces and shapes, we did that for 'em.
They would come to us sometimes and say, we want carpenter to contract
manufacturer the whole mattress for us and ship it to our warehouse, or whatever.
That was the role we played, and it was a great role that.
That went in, but with kind of the bed in a box and some of the other disruptors
that were going on, and with technology, the channels started getting muddied.
Right.
And so you
victoria-meyer_1_08-14-2025_091758: Yeah.
brad-guest15_1_08-14-2025_101758: people going upstream and downstream.
You know, people that have kind of moved upstream or are the Ashleys of the world,
uh, temper, Sealy pours their own foam.
So you have people now that are pouring their own foam.
You have people that are, are doing various things in there.
So it's not a clear A to B2C channel.
And so you're like, okay, what roles.
everybody playing in this?
What roles will they play in the future?
Casper was one of the original bed in a Box people, so they were
one of the original disruptors.
A lot of people may not remember that they early on had investors
like Leonardo DiCaprio and, and Ashton Kutcher and others.
They were, they were, they were a hot star.
I think at the time they called those companies unicorns.
Right.
victoria-meyer_1_08-14-2025_091758: Yeah.
brad-guest15_1_08-14-2025_101758: they had a lot of interest and a lot of buzz.
Uh, around it.
And their message originally was, you don't need to go to
a store to buy a mattress.
You can just buy it online.
We're cutting out the middleman.
And that was effective marketing and it grew significantly from, but
what they realized is when you're making a big ticket purchase.
And, and a refrigerator, a, a mattress, a car.
People like to touch and feel that product.
And so there's a significant number of people that won't buy unless
they can put their hands on it and actually see it for themselves.
So Casper started launching stores to support that.
They started getting,
victoria-meyer_1_08-14-2025_091758: Hmm.
brad-guest15_1_08-14-2025_101758: with other retails to do what's
called omnichannel, right?
So that they could get the product in front of more people.
And as they did that, they were raising money and then they
went public, uh, with that.
Um, and they poured a lot of money into making the brand successful.
victoria-meyer_1_08-14-2025_091758: Yeah.
brad-guest15_1_08-14-2025_101758: say they didn't do, and when the
role carpenter came in is they didn't look after the making of the product.
Really well, they made a great product that's not, don't take that wrong
and say this, but they, they weren't manufacturers, so they didn't really,
they would farm out to different people and they would go around
quarter to quarter and they would have different people making it for 'em.
And you think, well, that's okay, as long as people can conform to the
standards and the specifications.
But if you're not really focused on.
If you're not only focused on the actual production and you're not
focused on what's your cost to deliver the product, things get outta hand.
And so they came to us, at the end of 2023 and they were like, you know, we
need help with the manufacturing side.
And we looked at it and said, boy, you know, we've got.
11 locations around the, around US and Canada that we can ship from.
We may not ship from all of them, but just on a brief logistics,
we were able to improve their cost structure with that and.
I think if the market had been better, right?
If the furniture demand and bedding demand had been better than it
was the last two or three years,
victoria-meyer_1_08-14-2025_091758: Yeah.
brad-guest15_1_08-14-2025_101758: been sufficient for 'em, and they
would've been able to, to, let's say, grow their way through this process.
But as we all know, the market hasn't been what we'd want it to be, and so
the combination of that plus some high kind of overhead costs related to.
Leases of, corporate headquarters and other things like that.
They just struggled and we looked at it and said, we think
we can, we can help them right?
The ship if we took it over.
and really that was, was how we came about the Casper side of, of the business.
And it's, it's a learning curve, definitely.
So.
victoria-meyer_1_08-14-2025_091758: I bet, and in fact I wanna come around
to that learning curve piece and, and how you're bringing this all together.
But what's interesting is, number one, I'm not remember that Casper was the original.
Bed in a box, right?
So I think of Casper and I see 'em at Costco, for instance.
I don't, there are probably other places, I gotta be honest,
I don't get out much anymore.
Not since COVID, not since I've worked, I do everything outta my house.
It's kind of crazy.
But what's interesting about this story, and it's a story of
a lot of innovative companies throughout, um, probably the late.
Like the late 2010.
So probably in the same timeframe that Casper started up, let's say
2018 till now, and is that, um, it was this idea that a business, a billion
dollar business could be grown on the strength of the brand and the strength
of marketing and that all of the production could be contracted out.
So.
that, it sounds like that was at least part of the Casper story.
. I'm thinking about Kylie Jenner, which we don't normally talk about Kylie Jenner
on the show, but she had her lip thing and my, You know, I have a daughter,
so they were all obsessed about the lip thing, but I still remember Kylie
Jenner had like a billion dollar business valuation and didn't own a thing.
Because it was all contract labs, contract manufacturing, et cetera.
Now, where it is today, who the heck knows?
I don't know.
But I think it's an interesting just kind of sign of the times and the
evolution that we've gone through in business is this idea that yeah,
you can start small and nimble and outsourcing things, but eventually.
As people across the industry know you have to get your cost under control,
you actually have to get your supply chain under control, your logistics,
manufacturing, um, et cetera.
So, uh, that's a really, that's a really interesting story.
But with this, so this is my part, I'm turning it back, is, carpenter's really,
I mean, 75-year-old company, strong culture, what I would say is a very
traditional culture in a lot of ways.
You've brought three businesses into the fold in the last several
years, that is a lot of change.
So how are you guys navigating it, both in terms of figuring out how to bring
those teams into carpenter, but also carpenter growing and embracing the
best of what those companies bring?
brad-guest15_1_08-14-2025_101758: it's a fantastic question and I, I hope
that if we, if we get together this five years from now, you'd say, wow.
That, look at how that all has come together, as you know, perfectly right?
It's early on, you were talking about, hey, uh, you know, it's a crazy time,
but, you know, thinking back on it.
I think crazy is more than normal, right?
The, the
victoria-meyer_1_08-14-2025_091758: Yeah.
brad-guest15_1_08-14-2025_101758: kind of thing.
We can talk about 2008 into 2009 with the subprime mortgage situation.
I'm sure in 15 or 16 I can find a hurricane that screwed things up, right?
victoria-meyer_1_08-14-2025_091758: Oh yeah.
brad-guest15_1_08-14-2025_101758: post COVID.
So I'm not sure that normal, we like to, as humans, we probably
like to think normal is the normal state of things, but probably.
Chaos is more than normal and calm is probably the exception.
Uh, and it's probably disheartening for lots of people to hear, but uh,
you know, you just look back on it and you kind of have to be, I, I guess,
adaptive and flexible in that, in that
victoria-meyer_1_08-14-2025_091758: Yeah.
brad-guest15_1_08-14-2025_101758: And that's somewhat the approach
that we've taken a little bit with the acquisitions, right?
When you're, when you're picking up a rectus cell, and
as I mentioned, rectus cell.
Had just recently acquired a company called Foam Partner, right?
Which was a distinct different entity and people and foam partner.
Three years before that, three or four had acquired a, a small
systems house called Autobox, right?
So you have these three different cultures rolling up into a company
that then you pick up, right?
So you really have four.
Cultures and what you find is some people gravitate to the carpenter
culture really easy, right?
victoria-meyer_1_08-14-2025_091758: Yeah.
brad-guest15_1_08-14-2025_101758: get there, they go, wow,
I get it, I understand it.
I fit right in.
Away we go.
And then you have a group of people that are, I get it or I understand it, but
it's gonna take me a while to get it.
You have some people that, that, you know, good people, good managers who look at it
and say, this just is not for me, right?
This is not.
And sometimes those people.
Hang on.
And they try to make it work and we try to make it work.
And, and ultimately they get frustrated.
We get frustrated, and they leave, right?
And so we didn't take the approach like in the beginning, we're gonna
do this, we're gonna, we're gonna move head count from here to here.
We're gonna consolidate, we're gonna do that.
So we said, let's sit with the organization, let's understand
it, let's understand the people.
A good example that I would give is if you have a, a small manufacturing
plant you go to 'em and you say.
You're the division manager of that plant and you say, who are your best people?
give you their five best people.
You go to the next plant in a, in, maybe you go from Norway to Finland, and you
ask 'em for their five best people.
may not be the same roles at one, one job to
victoria-meyer_1_08-14-2025_091758: Hmm.
brad-guest15_1_08-14-2025_101758: So if you said, we're gonna eliminate
this, somebody's gonna say, I'm fine with that, because that
person wasn't that great anyway.
The next person's gonna have a complete freak
victoria-meyer_1_08-14-2025_091758: Yeah.
brad-guest15_1_08-14-2025_101758: you're taking away my best person.
Right.
So I think you know, as much as the, maybe that's not the textbook way of doing it.
You'd say, Hey, let's get to lean right away.
Let's do these kinds of things.
You know, you end up throwing out people who can make significant changes to your.
Company and your culture and significant improvements.
And it takes a little bit to figure out who those people are, right?
And, and so we've kind of taken that approach.
It's been a little bit challenging, right?
Because of the, if the economy was booming, you'd be like, Hey, this is
great, you know, but you always look back and say, are you moving fast enough?
Are you too slow?
Are you too fast?
You know, it's, it's, uh.
You know, when people say, what are the things that keep you awake at night?
Some of that is for me, where it's like, are we going fast enough?
Are we going too fast?
Where's the right pace of change?
Because again, you mentioned three acquisitions is a lot even for
Legacy Carpenter people, which is not the way we've done it to take on.
So you're always
victoria-meyer_1_08-14-2025_091758: Right.
brad-guest15_1_08-14-2025_101758: and I'm a, I'm a real people, first person.
I mean, people would get to know me, would see that and say, you know,
probably first and foremost I'm thinking, the right people in the right chairs.
Make them, feel like they're part of that process and then
the results will, will follow.
Right?
And so I'm really sensitive, like, are we, how fast are we moving?
Or not fast enough in some of those kinds of things.
So.
victoria-meyer_1_08-14-2025_091758: Yeah.
Well, and I think you also, I I, I would absolutely recognize, I think
you're definitely people first, and your people would say that as well.
The, the people I know that you work with, that work with you.
I think that's such a great thing because I think sometimes, especially,
you know, if you look at private equity across the industry as taking
a bigger role, you could, you know, I think it's always been right.
So.
again, back to this whole, there's always this evolution.
Um, it's often about just sheer dollars as opposed to the longevity of the business.
Um, and that's one of the opportunities I guess you guys as carpenter have.
Given that you're a private company, you have a bit more leeway in terms
of reaching those goals, that it's, that you're not trying to hit an
artificial quarterly target that your stockholders are looking for.
And I know that your Shareholders.
are looking for profitability and longevity and all that, right?
They're all, every, every owner is doing that.
But that you have a bit more leeway to.
Create that plan to grow to that vision, um, and make things happen.
brad-guest15_1_08-14-2025_101758: Well, a, a friend of mine, that I got to work
with on the Rectus Cell deal, I didn't know him before Epic, a good friend.
He gave me this phrase that I, that I like a lot, and it kind of resonates
well within how we look at Carpenter, which he said Sales is vanity.
Profit is sanity, but cash is reality, right?
And so we are very focused on, is what we're doing building cash
or is it taking away from cash?
victoria-meyer_1_08-14-2025_091758: Yeah.
brad-guest15_1_08-14-2025_101758: that's not just a, you know, alright, we're just
looking at the windshield all the time.
We're looking down the road, you know, we, we've invested
you simple things like you say.
put a betting line in X location.
You know, a lot of times that is a million dollar plus investment.
And you say, okay, let's think about that.
And then you look at maybe a return on investment and say, okay, that's
a three to five year payback.
Sometimes that's right within that payback.
And sometimes you get a win where it pays back in a year and a half or two years.
Right.
And the chemical side, those investments go up exponentially.
Right?
Investments aren't.
to three to five to $10 million.
They're 30 to 50 to a hundred million.
And sometimes if you're a really big boy like a Lionel or a BSF or somebody,
they're billions of dollars, right?
And, significant stuff.
And so you have to really say, okay.
Is this the right thing to do 10 years from now or
victoria-meyer_1_08-14-2025_091758: Hmm.
brad-guest15_1_08-14-2025_101758: from now?
I think Peter Huntsman was alluding to that on one of your earlier
discussions with him, right?
You have to be looking down the road and saying, I think that this is the
right geography, the right market.
You know, I getting him back to the rectus sell side or the European side.
I had somebody, don't know, it was probably now two years ago,
said, you know, it's interesting, you're one of the few people, a
few companies investing in Europe,
victoria-meyer_1_08-14-2025_091758: Yeah, I was gonna ask about that.
Yeah.
brad-guest15_1_08-14-2025_101758: Yeah, I, I said, look, we, we
go to where the consumers are,
victoria-meyer_1_08-14-2025_091758: Yeah.
brad-guest15_1_08-14-2025_101758: customers are people in the middle
to upper middle class people who want to have a high quality sofa,
and everybody wants to have high quality bed in sofa, but not everybody
can afford those kinds of things.
And so when we look at it, and I fundamentally come back to it saying
the European consumer has money.
They, even after you get through all this, they will still have money.
They may be, they may be less well off down the next 15 or 20 years,
but they still got money to spend.
victoria-meyer_1_08-14-2025_091758: Hmm.
brad-guest15_1_08-14-2025_101758: on us and our customers to find reasons for that
consumer to say, I wanna buy what they're offering We think local production,
you know our stuff and we talked about exporting stuff from Europe to the us.
That's not a long-term play for us.
Our job is to export stuff.
Is to make stuff, sorry.
In the region.
For the region, right.
We're making
victoria-meyer_1_08-14-2025_091758: Yeah.
brad-guest15_1_08-14-2025_101758: For North America.
If we're making something in India or China, we're making it for that market.
It's not to export it somewhere else.
And so we're really focused on what are the consumers and what
are the companies in that region.
And so that's the reason why when people ask, you know, Hey, you're,
you're, you're big in Europe, do you plan to stay that way?
I look at it and say, yes, getting into the European side, right?
So you look at that and you say, all right, I, I'm like Peter Huntsman.
With this regard, I'm a big advocate of the chemical industry in Europe, right?
I think the chemical industry in Europe.
to survive and needs to thrive because of, of two things.
One, I need the chemicals.
So selfishly I want them to do it, but the more manufacturing jobs they have,
call me old fashioned, the better off their consumers are and the more able
their consumers are to spend the money.
Right.
victoria-meyer_1_08-14-2025_091758: Yeah.
brad-guest15_1_08-14-2025_101758: you just outsource all of that, then
at what point does that, is it, you know, not a, a sustainable loop?
So, yeah.
victoria-meyer_1_08-14-2025_091758: Yeah.
I'm with you on that.
In fact, that's one of the biggest things I see as I keep seeing
announcement after announcement of shutdown of assets in Europe is those
are, it's a lot of job loss like.
What are those people going to do?
Because I do think that manufacturing roles are critical and we know
that manufacturing actually enhances communities, right?
So, a CC has done some work that says that for every one job at a chemical
plant, there's five to six jobs in the surrounding community, whether
it be schools or taxi drivers, or.
Whatever, all the things, restaurants.
And so I think about that aspect of if we start pulling production away
from regions, number one, it at the end of the day, and, you know, if
you think about from a sustainability perspective as well, transportation
is not our most sustainable activity.
Sar all the transportation people.
But you know, buying local, inherently has some sustainability benefits,
but also this aspect of continuing to develop people, communities, the
financials in those communities, et cetera, is really, really critical.
brad-guest15_1_08-14-2025_101758: I mean at, at Carpenter we make stuff right?
And,
victoria-meyer_1_08-14-2025_091758: Yeah.
brad-guest15_1_08-14-2025_101758: of the fact that we make stuff
and I'm, and I'm happy when young people, engineers or whatever want
to get involved in manufacturing.
Right?
Because I think making stuff a great way, it's been a great career for
victoria-meyer_1_08-14-2025_091758: Yeah.
brad-guest15_1_08-14-2025_101758: Roughly 7,000 employees now worldwide.
And you know, some of those, obviously with Casper in the retail side, but, but
fully 90% plus are in the manufacturing process in some form or fashion.
Right?
They're at the plant, they're helping to move the product to the
customers, whatever it is, right?
And.
Those jobs are important to everybody.
They're important to the, the people's families.
They're important to the communities and, and they're involved in.
One of the, the great things I like as a private company that that always
brings a smile to my face is people will come to us and they've retired or
they've been out in the community for a while, and they'll say, you know, I
spent my whole career at Carpenter and because of your profit sharing plan.
I, I have a really great retirement, right?
And
victoria-meyer_1_08-14-2025_091758: Yeah.
brad-guest15_1_08-14-2025_101758: Carpenter, back in the day, the, the,
the story goes that he was visiting a plant in North Carolina and saw an old
gentleman working on the production line, went over and started talking to him and
said, you know, and, and the guy basically alluded his, I can't afford to retire.
And so on the, on the trip back, he said.
don't want anybody to work at Carpenter because they have to.
I want 'em to work here because they want to.
So they started a profit sharing plan, right?
And so we have a 401k, but we have a profit sharing plan.
And it's really great to see people who've worked 30 years with the company
say, I can afford a nice retirement because of the profit sharing plan.
You know,
victoria-meyer_1_08-14-2025_091758: That's really nice.
brad-guest15_1_08-14-2025_101758: borrow against their 401k or they make.
Bad long term decisions for the short term, but if you have a profit
sharing plan, you can look back and say, we're trying to do the right
things for somebody who says, I wanna make a career out of working here.
victoria-meyer_1_08-14-2025_091758: Yeah.
brad-guest15_1_08-14-2025_101758: there's, there's no better, I'm probably
smiling a lot right now as we're talking about it, because to me, that's
making a difference in people's lives.
And so we really, at Carpenter, we say our, our purpose is to enhance
the quality of people's lives.
And a lot of times people draw an immediate connection to a
furniture or a mattress, right?
Oh, well, I get it.
That's an easy connection.
But people aren't just the customers, they're our employees as well, right?
So we want to enhance the quality of their lives.
Through what we're doing.
We want their jobs to have purpose and meaning.
You know,
victoria-meyer_1_08-14-2025_091758: Yeah.
brad-guest15_1_08-14-2025_101758: the, one of the earlier podcasts
that you had was on ai, right?
And so that's a big question, right?
Is what, is AI gonna play the role if it can do everything
for, for the basic level stuff?
How does a young person coming into the industry get trained?
Right.
And maybe, maybe I'm missing the boat.
Maybe they just, it's a different way of working five years from now and, and we
say that's okay, that they don't have to have the basic blocking and tackling that
victoria-meyer_1_08-14-2025_091758: Yeah.
brad-guest15_1_08-14-2025_101758: or I had in the industry.
I don't know the answer to that, but it is a question of like, how does a,
uh, a lawyer become a seasoned lawyer if they don't do the junior lawyer?
Right.
And so for us it's the same kind of thing.
We want to, we want to use AI to free people up.
We want to take away the 20% of their job that is, is rote and, and, and
doesn't have high value so that they can get more value out of their job.
You know, that's how we're looking at the AI side.
victoria-meyer_1_08-14-2025_091758: Yeah.
brad-guest15_1_08-14-2025_101758: we have any answers on it, but
it, it is very much a okay.
Somebody gets rid of the 20% they were doing, that frees up their capacity
to do more value added, right?
That's our approach to ai.
We're not anywhere we need to be yet on it, and, but we think that that's kind
of the right path to think of ai, so.
victoria-meyer_1_08-14-2025_091758: I, I think that's right.
I think this whole idea of a, I don't think AI replaces relationships.
It doesn't replace critical thinking.
brad-guest15_1_08-14-2025_101758: Mm-hmm.
victoria-meyer_1_08-14-2025_091758: but maybe it replaces the,
really, the basic stuff.
I mean, you know, if you think about it, back in the day, people used to, um.
Take letters from point to point via the pony Express.
Well, we now can text people.
We still need to communicate.
Right?
So it's changed, it's faster.
It's actually created, uh, so much more communication.
I mean, you know, we started out talking earlier, maybe before we got on the
thing about, you know, kids in college and what have you, and I used to go
walk down the hall to the payphone.
To call my parents when I'm encompass in college.
My kids are sending me multiple text messages, calling me, doing whatever
communication has amplified, not gotten less through the use of technology.
I,
brad-guest15_1_08-14-2025_101758: expectations have changed a lot
victoria-meyer_1_08-14-2025_091758: yeah,
brad-guest15_1_08-14-2025_101758: know, you, you talk about the phone, right?
Your parents were probably thankful to get a call on Sunday night once a week, right?
You
victoria-meyer_1_08-14-2025_091758: right.
brad-guest15_1_08-14-2025_101758: Now.
Now, if you don't respond to your, your wife's text or your kids' text within five
minutes, they're they're pointing fingers referring to the thing they sent you
five minutes ago, and you're like, look.
I'm in the middle of something, right?
victoria-meyer_1_08-14-2025_091758: Yeah.
brad-guest15_1_08-14-2025_101758: as a, as a young sales guy, right,
you were, you would go to the payphone to get your messages, right?
It's, it sounds like I'm from the 1930s, right?
And we lived in black and white, but you did that stuff.
But when email came along, you sent an email to somebody and the expectations
around email was you gave the person the information and when they had their
answer ready, they would get back to you.
victoria-meyer_1_08-14-2025_091758: Right.
brad-guest15_1_08-14-2025_101758: That's completely foreign.
Now, the idea that, that you send an email to somebody in the next two or
three days, they would get back to you.
There's a lot of people that would be like, is not how email works today.
Right.
and
victoria-meyer_1_08-14-2025_091758: I know it's a little crazy, in fact.
brad-guest15_1_08-14-2025_101758: Right?
Yeah.
victoria-meyer_1_08-14-2025_091758: Yeah.
brad-guest15_1_08-14-2025_101758: it's just different.
And I think AI will make things different in the future and we'll look back on it
victoria-meyer_1_08-14-2025_091758: Yeah.
brad-guest15_1_08-14-2025_101758: Hmm, that was pretty crazy
that we used to do this
victoria-meyer_1_08-14-2025_091758: yeah.
What are you guys doing digitally?
I know you've talked about ai and I think about, again, I go back to
thinking about Carpenter as being in, in a lot of ways, an old school company,
and yet I know that you've used a lot of digital across your businesses.
So what's, what are you guys doing and where are your priorities when
we think about digital and ai?
brad-guest15_1_08-14-2025_101758: so I, I, I kind of set a broad like
strategy, you want to call it that way, but the phrase I use internally is we
want to get the right information to the right people at the right time.
Right.
And I think those three things are important.
Right.
You,
victoria-meyer_1_08-14-2025_091758: Yeah.
brad-guest15_1_08-14-2025_101758: there's a lot of information right?
There's a lot of bad information.
There's a lot of not useful information.
And how do people sort through that?
You and I have been in the industry for a long time, so we're using
our judgment to decide that this piece of information is good or bad.
Somebody who's just coming into the industry doesn't have that
kind of experience, so how do they know the information that's coming
to 'em is useful or not useful?
I can use, the laboratory side, right?
So they get some information maybe out of AI that says.
This is how you should create a starter formulation.
They have no judgment to know whether that's a good starting point or a bad
starting point where a 15 year chemist looks at and says, you know what?
We went down that road.
We tried it.
It didn't quite work.
Start at this point.
Not at that point.
Right?
victoria-meyer_1_08-14-2025_091758: Yeah.
brad-guest15_1_08-14-2025_101758: so Right.
Information is important.
the right people, right?
So a salesperson needs information, and, and that's what they are, is
they're purveyors of information to the customer and back, and they're,
they're helping facilitate, right?
They're the
victoria-meyer_1_08-14-2025_091758: Yeah.
brad-guest15_1_08-14-2025_101758: of what's going on.
So the point guard needs to know what play the coach wants to run.
He needs to get the players in the right spot, and he needs
to deliver the past to them.
At the right time.
Right?
It doesn't do you any good to throw a pass when a guy's being
guarded, he's gotta get open, right?
And so right time, right place, you know, right.
Information.
All that is the broad category.
And then the, the how to make it happen is where the real difficulty comes in.
It's
victoria-meyer_1_08-14-2025_091758: Yeah.
brad-guest15_1_08-14-2025_101758: as a CEO to say, here's the broad vision, right?
Just right people, right, right place, right information, right time.
You know, that sounds easy.
And then you say, what softwares do I need to put in to do that?
And we got various teams, you know, we got 30, I think it's 32, but over
30 places that pour foam, right?
And they
victoria-meyer_1_08-14-2025_091758: Hmm.
brad-guest15_1_08-14-2025_101758: on a continuous basis around the
world, and they're generating data and information off of how
that production's going every day.
How do you take all those trillions of bytes of information, put
'em into a useful thing so that.
What we learned in, in, in Finland somehow makes its way to California.
And so when the guy in California is gonna do this, he gets information
and the system helps them waste.
Right?
and,
victoria-meyer_1_08-14-2025_091758: Yeah.
brad-guest15_1_08-14-2025_101758: and, and how do we do that?
And we have customers that require.
Perfect cell structure, let's say.
So foam cellular material,
victoria-meyer_1_08-14-2025_091758: Sure.
brad-guest15_1_08-14-2025_101758: they have specifications that it can
only be between one and five microns.
And, and so you're trying to pour foam that's exactly perfect all the time and
you need information and AI to do that.
And you have other customers that, that's the antithesis.
If you pour two uniform, it creates a problem.
Right?
So
victoria-meyer_1_08-14-2025_091758: Hmm.
brad-guest15_1_08-14-2025_101758: you're, trying to meet those needs.
In varying categories for what the customer wants.
I mean,
victoria-meyer_1_08-14-2025_091758: Yeah.
brad-guest15_1_08-14-2025_101758: what we serve the customer is we gotta
create products the customer believes that they have to have, because
that makes their product better, different that they can succeed with.
And so we need to understand what their requirements are and how do
we exceed their expectations and do it obviously in a way that we can.
Be profitable and they can be profitable and everything else.
But that's
victoria-meyer_1_08-14-2025_091758: Yeah.
brad-guest15_1_08-14-2025_101758: that type of information is really hard to
kind of coalesce and, and get around.
But that's what we're working towards in that regard, is
supporting those kinds of things.
So
victoria-meyer_1_08-14-2025_091758: That's awesome.
we are running.
Um, I think we're running out of time, but I'm gonna give you one final
question and then we're gonna wrap this.
and as you know, I know you're, you listened, uh, loyally to the
podcast and hopefully you listen.
All the way through.
so my final question is what's, let's talk about leadership.
What's one piece of leadership advice, career leadership advice that you would
offer to someone early in their career that perhaps started in sales and looked
around and not knowing what else they were doing, that maybe ultimately leads
to them being a CEO or to them just being super successful in their career?
What would, what advice do you offer.
brad-guest15_1_08-14-2025_101758: I would, I actually have two pieces of
advice if I can, uh, double dip on it.
victoria-meyer_1_08-14-2025_091758: Yeah,
brad-guest15_1_08-14-2025_101758: first piece of advice I I give
to people is nobody wants to give you your next job unless you're
doing well in your current job.
And a lot of times people lose track and they think about the next thing and
they drop the ball on the current thing.
you're doing a really good job in what you're doing, if you're the
best in what you're doing, or one of the top people, people look around
and they value that and they say.
I think that person's capable of doing more, But if you, if you're not
doing a very good job and you raise your hand and you say, I want to do
something more, they're like, he, she's not even handling what they got.
Why would I give them more?
victoria-meyer_1_08-14-2025_091758: Right.
brad-guest15_1_08-14-2025_101758: my, my message is, be really good at what
you're doing and you'll get recognized.
And if you don't get recognized in your current company, shame on them.
get recognized by somebody else in the industry who looks
at that person and says that.
the old man phrase that kid's a winner.
Right?
We want
victoria-meyer_1_08-14-2025_091758: Yeah.
brad-guest15_1_08-14-2025_101758: team, let's get 'em right.
And I think the other one is, uh, and, and is to, is someone put it this way,
I think it was in actually Ted Lasso of All Things said to be curious, right?
So a lot of people think that the learning stops when they get the degree and.
And that, yeah, you move along at a slower pace.
You kind of learn your job.
But in, for me to, to become the CEO, not only did I have to do a good job
running the chemical business, right, and, and I had to be recognized for that.
I had to be somebody that asked questions and started to understand
about the other businesses.
'cause I don't think Mr.
Polly would've looked at it and said, yeah, he's a chemical industry.
Expert, but how do I project him being an expert of all these other things
that you have to, you have to know, but it was because I was involved and
I was curious, and I learned and asked questions, and they could kind of see,
well, he's got an interest in things that are beyond just the chemical
victoria-meyer_1_08-14-2025_091758: Yeah.
brad-guest15_1_08-14-2025_101758: Right?
So they, they looked at it and said, he's curious.
He's capable.
Right?
He's doing a good job.
Let's give him an opportunity.
Now, that was a big opportunity, right?
And I, it's hard.
People say, Hey, it's, you know.
Is there, there's a fair bit of luck or, destiny or whatever you want to
call it in that way, you know, uh, that type of thing that, that happens to it.
There's, you know, um, you know,
victoria-meyer_1_08-14-2025_091758: in the right place at the right time.
There's a lot to be said for that.
Yeah,
brad-guest15_1_08-14-2025_101758: others, they have turnover.
They have great people.
You're like, why did somebody get that CEO job and somebody.
There's lots of factors that go into that that are beyond just
the two things I was giving
victoria-meyer_1_08-14-2025_091758: Yeah.
brad-guest15_1_08-14-2025_101758: there is a bit of that whatever luck element
or how people wanna look at those things that are, that's out of your control.
But you can only control the two things I'm giving you.
You can control how good you're doing at your job and you control
how much curiosity you have.
And if you put those things in control, then the other stuff
you can't really worry about.
So.
victoria-meyer_1_08-14-2025_091758: Love it.
That is great advice, Brad.
Thank you Thanks for sharing everything, as always, a great conversation with you.
Appreciate it.
brad-guest15_1_08-14-2025_101758: Thank you for the time and I'm
sorry I didn't have some really big announcement for you, you
victoria-meyer_1_08-14-2025_091758: Well, actually, I was gonna ask you
about your new tagline that you, kind of, you know, we make stuff, so,
is that like, is that the new, the new
brad-guest15_1_08-14-2025_101758: No,
victoria-meyer_1_08-14-2025_091758: announcement?
But I won't put that on you.
brad-guest15_1_08-14-2025_101758: Yeah.
Yeah.
victoria-meyer_1_08-14-2025_091758: It's,
brad-guest15_1_08-14-2025_101758: people, you know, people often ask
on the acquisition side, right?
And, and we, we always remain curious right, uh,
victoria-meyer_1_08-14-2025_091758: yeah.
brad-guest15_1_08-14-2025_101758: things and are there opportunities
for us to partner with people to work, to, you know, fundamentally
we want to grow our business.
And so we're, we're open to all avenues of that, but there's
victoria-meyer_1_08-14-2025_091758: Perfect.
brad-guest15_1_08-14-2025_101758: that, that I can come on and give you an
exclusive about something, you know,
victoria-meyer_1_08-14-2025_091758: That's all right.
I would not expect it.
I
brad-guest15_1_08-14-2025_101758: I'll let you know if there is,
victoria-meyer_1_08-14-2025_091758: Okay, cool.
I love it.
Love it.
Well, brand.
Thank you so, much.
brad-guest15_1_08-14-2025_101758: As always, and I look forward to this one
victoria-meyer_1_08-14-2025_091758: Okay.
brad-guest15_1_08-14-2025_101758: all the future ones that you, you put out as well.
So
victoria-meyer_1_08-14-2025_091758: thanks.
Absolutely, and thanks everyone for listening.
Keep listening, keep following, keep sharing, and we will talk with you soon.