1 00:00:18,520 --> 00:00:20,260 Speaker 1: welcome to svelte radio 2 00:00:24,200 --> 00:00:28,200 Speaker 1: Hello everyone. Welcome to another episode of Svelte Radio. We're back. 3 00:00:28,560 --> 00:00:28,880 Speaker 1: Yes. 4 00:00:29,060 --> 00:00:30,020 Speaker 1: Hello Brittany. 5 00:00:30,700 --> 00:00:31,040 Speaker 2: Hello. 6 00:00:31,040 --> 00:00:32,380 Speaker 2: Hi Kev. Great to see you all again. 7 00:00:33,080 --> 00:00:36,860 Speaker 1: Yeah, likewise. How were your holidays? What did you do? Anything fun? 8 00:00:37,540 --> 00:00:41,500 Speaker 2: I'm not a holiday man, but this time it was great just chilling out. 9 00:00:42,060 --> 00:00:42,620 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah. 10 00:00:43,200 --> 00:00:43,740 Speaker 3: So you 11 00:00:43,740 --> 00:00:43,920 Speaker 2: don't 12 00:00:43,920 --> 00:00:45,760 Speaker 1: like Christmas? Is that what you're... 13 00:00:45,960 --> 00:00:47,040 Speaker 1: Ah, yes. That 14 00:00:47,040 --> 00:00:48,100 Speaker 2: is why. Not a fan. 15 00:00:48,650 --> 00:00:51,980 Speaker 2: And ever since I had kids, where the stakes are a bit higher now, 16 00:00:52,120 --> 00:00:53,280 Speaker 2: because kids love Christmas. 17 00:00:53,520 --> 00:00:55,180 Speaker 2: I dislike it even more. 18 00:00:56,800 --> 00:00:57,400 Speaker 1: That's interesting. 19 00:00:57,880 --> 00:01:00,600 Speaker 1: I've heard a lot of people that become parents 20 00:01:01,560 --> 00:01:03,980 Speaker 1: kind of rediscover the joy of Christmas 21 00:01:04,199 --> 00:01:04,360 Speaker 1: because 22 00:01:04,360 --> 00:01:04,860 Speaker 3: they get 23 00:01:04,860 --> 00:01:06,920 Speaker 1: to live Christmas through their kids. 24 00:01:06,920 --> 00:01:07,240 Speaker 1: That's my 25 00:01:07,240 --> 00:01:07,500 Speaker 3: wife. 26 00:01:08,860 --> 00:01:09,280 Speaker 1: I see. 27 00:01:09,440 --> 00:01:09,580 Speaker 1: Okay. 28 00:01:11,400 --> 00:01:14,540 Speaker 1: So you just have to do all the other boring stuff. 29 00:01:15,280 --> 00:01:17,880 Speaker 2: We still have Christmas decorations up in January, 30 00:01:18,400 --> 00:01:18,900 Speaker 2: end of January. 31 00:01:19,500 --> 00:01:22,080 Speaker 4: We just put ours away two days ago. 32 00:01:23,160 --> 00:01:27,600 Speaker 4: I was like, well, my oldest daughter, her birthday is January 17th. 33 00:01:27,610 --> 00:01:30,220 Speaker 4: And she told us we couldn't take them down until after birthday. 34 00:01:30,860 --> 00:01:32,740 Speaker 4: And so the other day I was like, okay, enough. 35 00:01:32,900 --> 00:01:35,020 Speaker 4: Like I drug the box up and I'm like, put it away. 36 00:01:35,420 --> 00:01:35,900 Speaker 4: It's got to go. 37 00:01:36,460 --> 00:01:36,640 Speaker 2: Yeah. 38 00:01:37,110 --> 00:01:37,920 Speaker 2: I don't want to be a bus girl. 39 00:01:38,010 --> 00:01:39,620 Speaker 2: I think it's great that if you buy stuff. 40 00:01:41,060 --> 00:01:41,940 Speaker 2: I think 41 00:01:41,940 --> 00:01:48,940 Speaker 4: I enjoy more now at my age giving and seeing the joy that they get from receiving the gift, 42 00:01:49,100 --> 00:01:53,420 Speaker 4: like the kids and stuff, then I personally don't really care anymore. 43 00:01:54,140 --> 00:01:54,260 Speaker 4: I 44 00:01:54,260 --> 00:01:55,080 Speaker 3: actually find it 45 00:01:55,080 --> 00:01:58,760 Speaker 4: very difficult to shop for my husband and he still wants a 46 00:01:58,900 --> 00:02:00,800 Speaker 4: gift and I hate like doing it. 47 00:02:01,080 --> 00:02:06,620 Speaker 4: I just like, just like go buy your own gift or something. 48 00:02:06,660 --> 00:02:09,320 Speaker 4: I don't know, but he wants you to put thought into it and care. 49 00:02:09,539 --> 00:02:13,140 Speaker 4: And I'm just, I don't have enough left in me to care. 50 00:02:14,020 --> 00:02:14,220 Speaker 1: Right. 51 00:02:14,800 --> 00:02:14,920 Speaker 1: Right. 52 00:02:15,440 --> 00:02:17,420 Speaker 1: Have you heard about Claude bot? 53 00:02:17,700 --> 00:02:18,800 Speaker 1: It's all on the internet, 54 00:02:18,840 --> 00:02:18,960 Speaker 2: right? 55 00:02:19,820 --> 00:02:21,020 Speaker 2: I guess that could buy a kid. 56 00:02:21,220 --> 00:02:21,940 Speaker 4: But it also like 57 00:02:21,940 --> 00:02:23,640 Speaker 2: empty like your bank account. 58 00:02:23,840 --> 00:02:24,940 Speaker 4: Can you tell me what to do? 59 00:02:25,560 --> 00:02:28,940 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah. So CloudBot is, I actually think they changed the name. 60 00:02:29,320 --> 00:02:32,740 Speaker 1: So it's called MaltBot now because of some, because of 61 00:02:32,740 --> 00:02:34,740 Speaker 2: the trademark. 62 00:02:35,160 --> 00:02:35,280 Speaker 1: Yeah. 63 00:02:35,500 --> 00:02:38,560 Speaker 4: I thought you were saying something like Cloud Code. 64 00:02:39,600 --> 00:02:40,920 Speaker 1: Right. It's very similar, right? But it's 65 00:02:40,920 --> 00:02:41,940 Speaker 4: a different company. 66 00:02:42,220 --> 00:02:49,040 Speaker 1: Yeah. So MaltBot, it's basically like a personal assistant kind of that runs 67 00:02:49,060 --> 00:02:52,020 Speaker 1: on your computer and you can have it read your email 68 00:02:52,440 --> 00:02:54,500 Speaker 1: and then you just chat to it through, 69 00:02:55,170 --> 00:02:57,640 Speaker 1: I don't know, WhatsApp or Telegram or iMessage 70 00:02:58,040 --> 00:03:00,220 Speaker 1: and just goes and does stuff on your computer for you. 71 00:03:00,750 --> 00:03:01,660 Speaker 4: So you can have it like, oh. 72 00:03:01,730 --> 00:03:02,620 Speaker 4: - I can chat with it through that. 73 00:03:02,690 --> 00:03:04,020 Speaker 4: It doesn't have like a web GUI 74 00:03:04,220 --> 00:03:05,480 Speaker 4: or a desktop app or anything? 75 00:03:05,760 --> 00:03:06,000 Speaker 4: - It 76 00:03:06,000 --> 00:03:08,240 Speaker 1: does, but if you have it on WhatsApp, 77 00:03:08,430 --> 00:03:10,600 Speaker 1: you can just chat to it on your iPhone, right? 78 00:03:10,640 --> 00:03:10,900 Speaker 1: - That is pretty cool. 79 00:03:10,900 --> 00:03:11,620 Speaker 1: - And you can just have it 80 00:03:11,620 --> 00:03:12,520 Speaker 2: say like, 81 00:03:13,280 --> 00:03:14,220 Speaker 1: add a calendar 82 00:03:14,220 --> 00:03:16,560 Speaker 2: event, blah, blah. 83 00:03:16,560 --> 00:03:18,200 Speaker 2: - I guess the idea is also that like your whole family, 84 00:03:18,420 --> 00:03:20,840 Speaker 2: it's a family of assistants that everyone has 85 00:03:20,840 --> 00:03:26,240 Speaker 4: to use claude i i do that i have the app on my phone 86 00:03:26,300 --> 00:03:33,540 Speaker 4: i have the desktop version i have claude code for cli stuff and i had it create an mcp server that 87 00:03:33,640 --> 00:03:36,700 Speaker 4: will create an apple note every two weeks for my invoice 88 00:03:36,700 --> 00:03:38,380 Speaker 3: oh nice wrap 89 00:03:38,380 --> 00:03:40,580 Speaker 4: the email like i i have claude 90 00:03:40,740 --> 00:03:44,700 Speaker 4: do so much stuff for me like my skincare routine i had it go through all of this 91 00:03:44,700 --> 00:03:45,660 Speaker 2: does claude do 92 00:03:45,540 --> 00:03:47,040 Speaker 2: your skincare routine it 93 00:03:47,040 --> 00:03:48,940 Speaker 4: it told me like the order to put everything 94 00:03:48,940 --> 00:03:49,840 Speaker 2: on and what 95 00:03:49,840 --> 00:03:50,740 Speaker 4: to do morning and 96 00:03:50,880 --> 00:03:56,800 Speaker 4: night like it it helped me with that like i mean everything like i'm just trying to get into using 97 00:03:56,960 --> 00:03:58,340 Speaker 4: it more because it's been 98 00:03:58,340 --> 00:03:59,200 Speaker 3: really helpful 99 00:03:59,200 --> 00:04:02,620 Speaker 4: at like organizing a lot of things that are tedious and 100 00:04:02,620 --> 00:04:07,760 Speaker 4: you don't want to do yeah i i'm all for it take all my data i don't care 101 00:04:07,760 --> 00:04:10,720 Speaker 1: well that's i guess that's 102 00:04:10,840 --> 00:04:15,500 Speaker 1: the the kind of the scary thing with with malt pot that it does what claw does but i think it 103 00:04:15,520 --> 00:04:17,920 Speaker 1: has even you can give it even more access 104 00:04:17,920 --> 00:04:18,920 Speaker 3: so you can just like 105 00:04:18,920 --> 00:04:20,880 Speaker 1: let it do everything um 106 00:04:20,880 --> 00:04:21,480 Speaker 3: i think 107 00:04:21,680 --> 00:04:21,760 Speaker 3: scott 108 00:04:21,760 --> 00:04:27,560 Speaker 1: tulinski posted posted something on on x about how he had let me see if i can find the 109 00:04:27,560 --> 00:04:27,900 Speaker 4: i 110 00:04:27,980 --> 00:04:30,440 Speaker 4: don't go to that site anymore i don't i can't no 111 00:04:30,440 --> 00:04:34,060 Speaker 1: i i know i know a lot of people don't but the tweet 112 00:04:34,360 --> 00:04:41,200 Speaker 1: was yeah so uh things my quad bot has done reorganized my nas created personalized custom 113 00:04:42,240 --> 00:04:47,020 Speaker 1: meditations started work on to-dos that were falling behind cataloging meals and recipes 114 00:04:47,380 --> 00:04:53,160 Speaker 1: adjusting custom total workouts blah blah blah tail scale like it just goes on it's just like 115 00:04:53,530 --> 00:04:54,660 Speaker 1: random stuff kind of 116 00:04:54,660 --> 00:04:59,320 Speaker 4: want to be done all of that you can do if you wanted to stay in the same 117 00:04:59,560 --> 00:05:03,940 Speaker 4: ecosystem like i pay for the max subscription so mine's a hundred dollars a month so if you're 118 00:05:04,180 --> 00:05:05,860 Speaker 4: already in that like you could do 119 00:05:05,860 --> 00:05:06,300 Speaker 3: all of 120 00:05:06,300 --> 00:05:09,120 Speaker 4: that i do my workouts through that and it'll add it straight 121 00:05:09,140 --> 00:05:13,680 Speaker 4: to my google calendar so it's on my calendar like yeah it is it 122 00:05:13,680 --> 00:05:16,160 Speaker 1: is it is very cool like like it's 123 00:05:16,320 --> 00:05:17,780 Speaker 1: super it's super nice um 124 00:05:17,780 --> 00:05:18,740 Speaker 3: yeah i've 125 00:05:18,740 --> 00:05:23,020 Speaker 1: been vibe coding like crazy these these last few weeks and i i don't 126 00:05:23,020 --> 00:05:29,420 Speaker 1: think i've written more than like 10 lines of code and i've vibe coded a gym tracking app i can 127 00:05:29,420 --> 00:05:31,160 Speaker 1: actually show it to you um 128 00:05:31,160 --> 00:05:32,140 Speaker 3: so if you go to 129 00:05:32,140 --> 00:05:37,320 Speaker 1: gym dot let me actually post link here um this is basically 130 00:05:37,340 --> 00:05:44,120 Speaker 1: just like I told it, build me a gym workout tracking app that works in the browser, but 131 00:05:44,200 --> 00:05:45,920 Speaker 1: that also has sync capabilities. 132 00:05:46,590 --> 00:05:47,120 Speaker 3: And so I can 133 00:05:47,120 --> 00:05:50,600 Speaker 1: just enter this text string and then I can sync it with 134 00:05:50,640 --> 00:05:53,740 Speaker 1: my phone and I can do my workouts on the app. And it's just like 135 00:05:54,080 --> 00:05:54,280 Speaker 4: Oh, 136 00:05:54,330 --> 00:05:56,480 Speaker 4: does it use query parameters or like 137 00:05:57,180 --> 00:05:58,080 Speaker 1: I don't 138 00:05:58,080 --> 00:05:58,360 Speaker 1: remember. 139 00:05:58,620 --> 00:05:59,500 Speaker 4: What does it do? Like I haven't 140 00:05:59,500 --> 00:06:02,240 Speaker 1: really looked at the code, right? That's the thing. 141 00:06:02,740 --> 00:06:03,300 Speaker 4: You're just like, 142 00:06:03,360 --> 00:06:03,840 Speaker 4: I don't care. 143 00:06:04,680 --> 00:06:11,300 Speaker 1: Yeah, it just tracks my exercises that I've done and like the volume and like how much I've lifted and stuff. 144 00:06:13,140 --> 00:06:16,300 Speaker 1: And I mean, I had to, I've been vibe coding so much. 145 00:06:16,310 --> 00:06:18,680 Speaker 1: I had to upgrade to the, like the 20X 146 00:06:18,680 --> 00:06:20,480 Speaker 3: max plan. 147 00:06:20,950 --> 00:06:27,760 Speaker 1: And I had to get two other subscriptions, two other services because I'm using so much AI at LLMs at the moment. 148 00:06:28,640 --> 00:06:29,300 Speaker 3: For 149 00:06:29,300 --> 00:06:34,800 Speaker 1: example, I vibe coded CMS for conferences that I'm almost done with. 150 00:06:35,220 --> 00:06:37,480 Speaker 1: Haven't really written a lot of code for this. 151 00:06:37,620 --> 00:06:38,960 Speaker 1: That's for Svelte Summit, obviously, right? 152 00:06:39,140 --> 00:06:39,500 Speaker 1: I see. 153 00:06:41,060 --> 00:06:43,460 Speaker 1: And it's just got like, oh, CFP handling. 154 00:06:43,940 --> 00:06:46,760 Speaker 1: It's got sponsor handling, like everything. 155 00:06:47,340 --> 00:06:47,620 Speaker 4: Yeah. 156 00:06:47,920 --> 00:06:49,880 Speaker 1: And it's like, it just does it for you. 157 00:06:50,260 --> 00:06:51,520 Speaker 4: Have you ever tried Lovable? 158 00:06:52,160 --> 00:06:52,760 Speaker 1: I have not. 159 00:06:53,060 --> 00:06:54,820 Speaker 4: I did see a video 160 00:06:54,820 --> 00:06:57,820 Speaker 1: today with like a Swedish influencer that went to their offices because 161 00:06:57,960 --> 00:06:58,480 Speaker 1: it's here in Stockholm. 162 00:06:58,600 --> 00:06:58,760 Speaker 1: right 163 00:06:58,760 --> 00:07:00,120 Speaker 4: oh and the 164 00:07:00,120 --> 00:07:05,280 Speaker 1: the guy that started lovable he he lives in like a i don't know if you call it a 165 00:07:05,500 --> 00:07:10,120 Speaker 1: collective in english like so he lives with like 12 other people and he's just like 166 00:07:10,120 --> 00:07:10,820 Speaker 4: a 167 00:07:10,820 --> 00:07:11,260 Speaker 1: billionaire 168 00:07:11,540 --> 00:07:11,620 Speaker 1: right 169 00:07:11,620 --> 00:07:18,440 Speaker 4: oh my god yeah that's very random i i said that because uh the reason like my company got 170 00:07:18,600 --> 00:07:25,800 Speaker 4: into ai or is getting into ai is like lovable was one of the ceo's first like forays into it and she 171 00:07:25,780 --> 00:07:26,160 Speaker 4: would give 172 00:07:26,160 --> 00:07:26,640 Speaker 3: it like 173 00:07:26,640 --> 00:07:30,040 Speaker 4: the specifications and then she'd be able to see it and you can actually see 174 00:07:30,040 --> 00:07:32,880 Speaker 4: the website like as it's working so i think 175 00:07:32,880 --> 00:07:33,740 Speaker 1: that's one of the benefits 176 00:07:33,740 --> 00:07:34,700 Speaker 4: of that one but i've never 177 00:07:34,900 --> 00:07:36,160 Speaker 4: worked with it yeah 178 00:07:36,160 --> 00:07:43,220 Speaker 1: i i the thing with with most of these like ai kind of services is i get the 179 00:07:43,340 --> 00:07:47,940 Speaker 1: feeling that you you can get 80 there but then you kind of have to work 180 00:07:47,940 --> 00:07:49,000 Speaker 3: manually with 181 00:07:49,000 --> 00:07:49,759 Speaker 1: it to get it to 182 00:07:49,660 --> 00:07:52,940 Speaker 1: work, but I haven't tried lovable. So maybe that's not, maybe that's not the case. 183 00:07:54,820 --> 00:07:58,780 Speaker 1: So that, that, that was the, this week's AI chat. 184 00:07:59,540 --> 00:08:00,060 Speaker 1: Unless you guys. 185 00:08:00,080 --> 00:08:03,580 Speaker 4: I thought we were just going to go like full AI. Like that's the 186 00:08:03,580 --> 00:08:03,940 Speaker 1: title. 187 00:08:05,800 --> 00:08:09,280 Speaker 2: Inviting a fourth member to the radio, which is like this robot that talks. 188 00:08:09,400 --> 00:08:10,400 Speaker 4: Oh yeah. Just like. 189 00:08:10,800 --> 00:08:11,920 Speaker 4: We don't even have to talk to each 190 00:08:11,920 --> 00:08:12,940 Speaker 2: other. And then the listeners, 191 00:08:13,240 --> 00:08:16,400 Speaker 2: they can also have their AI listen to it. So they don't have to, I mean, 192 00:08:16,880 --> 00:08:19,000 Speaker 2: That's the piece I feel AI is 193 00:08:19,000 --> 00:08:20,520 Speaker 4: missing, is voice. 194 00:08:21,260 --> 00:08:22,700 Speaker 4: So we have Siri and 195 00:08:22,700 --> 00:08:22,940 Speaker 3: Google. 196 00:08:23,500 --> 00:08:23,580 Speaker 3: But 197 00:08:23,580 --> 00:08:29,480 Speaker 4: if I do, I don't feel like at least Claude can't speak to me. 198 00:08:29,520 --> 00:08:33,560 Speaker 4: And me speaking to Claude works 75% of the time 199 00:08:33,560 --> 00:08:34,500 Speaker 3: if you just 200 00:08:34,500 --> 00:08:36,080 Speaker 4: try to talk into it. 201 00:08:36,539 --> 00:08:38,760 Speaker 4: But it doesn't always translate my words correctly. 202 00:08:39,500 --> 00:08:41,159 Speaker 4: And it's not fluent. 203 00:08:41,780 --> 00:08:43,280 Speaker 4: And it's not like I'm talking to someone. 204 00:08:43,520 --> 00:08:44,400 Speaker 4: That would be. 205 00:08:45,040 --> 00:08:48,300 Speaker 2: So that's, I don't know if you, I think if you're on an iPhone, you don't have, but on 206 00:08:48,300 --> 00:08:50,080 Speaker 2: an Android, there's this Gemini thing. 207 00:08:50,130 --> 00:08:53,700 Speaker 2: And it has like this live talk where you can actually have a conversation and you can interrupt 208 00:08:53,860 --> 00:08:54,080 Speaker 2: each other. 209 00:08:54,150 --> 00:08:57,680 Speaker 2: I think that's, well, the AI doesn't interrupt you, but you can interrupt the agent. 210 00:08:58,340 --> 00:08:58,620 Speaker 2: Interesting. 211 00:08:59,720 --> 00:09:05,060 Speaker 4: So I think you can download Gemini, but I, I did end up having to switch the dark side 212 00:09:05,240 --> 00:09:07,340 Speaker 4: of getting an iPhone instead of an Android. 213 00:09:07,960 --> 00:09:12,240 Speaker 4: I've been an Android user and fan for a very long time, but 214 00:09:12,240 --> 00:09:13,940 Speaker 2: finally, I mean, now they have 215 00:09:13,940 --> 00:09:14,240 Speaker 2: a deal. 216 00:09:15,020 --> 00:09:15,520 Speaker 2: Gemini 217 00:09:15,520 --> 00:09:15,900 Speaker 1: will be 218 00:09:16,850 --> 00:09:18,000 Speaker 1: probably going to be a thing on Apple 219 00:09:18,030 --> 00:09:19,380 Speaker 1: on iPhones someday 220 00:09:20,300 --> 00:09:22,840 Speaker 2: but I think one thing just to stay on that track 221 00:09:23,030 --> 00:09:24,460 Speaker 2: one thing that annoys me a lot is like 222 00:09:24,850 --> 00:09:26,420 Speaker 2: when I do try to talk with 223 00:09:26,820 --> 00:09:28,780 Speaker 2: Gemini and I press this microphone button 224 00:09:29,160 --> 00:09:30,080 Speaker 2: it's not pushed to talk 225 00:09:30,560 --> 00:09:32,060 Speaker 2: it's just like when I have a pause 226 00:09:32,730 --> 00:09:34,820 Speaker 2: it just starts responding to me 227 00:09:35,520 --> 00:09:36,200 Speaker 3: please let 228 00:09:36,200 --> 00:09:36,640 Speaker 2: me think 229 00:09:37,100 --> 00:09:38,620 Speaker 2: please let me just have a slight talk 230 00:09:39,060 --> 00:09:39,680 Speaker 1: before you 231 00:09:39,680 --> 00:09:40,000 Speaker 2: into it 232 00:09:41,120 --> 00:09:42,800 Speaker 1: yeah because humans can do that 233 00:09:42,960 --> 00:09:44,980 Speaker 1: right humans can see that 234 00:09:45,000 --> 00:09:53,040 Speaker 1: probably going to say something else yeah after you yeah all right llms honestly i'm i'm a bit 235 00:09:53,260 --> 00:09:54,080 Speaker 1: scared about the future 236 00:09:54,080 --> 00:09:56,760 Speaker 2: oh i'm not i'm gonna be great yeah 237 00:09:56,760 --> 00:09:57,280 Speaker 1: well 238 00:09:57,280 --> 00:09:58,640 Speaker 4: i i think in 239 00:09:58,640 --> 00:09:59,340 Speaker 1: what way right 240 00:09:59,800 --> 00:10:06,340 Speaker 4: there still needs to be regulation and like in the u.s at least we have no regulation on it at all and 241 00:10:06,520 --> 00:10:12,860 Speaker 4: how much are we destroying the earth with this so like i i worry about like that piece of things 242 00:10:12,880 --> 00:10:18,900 Speaker 4: more than like ai taking over everything which i mean maybe but it just needs and maybe it won't 243 00:10:18,980 --> 00:10:22,200 Speaker 4: need so much oversight one day but it needs so much oversight right now 244 00:10:22,200 --> 00:10:24,240 Speaker 2: there's a lot of energy 245 00:10:24,440 --> 00:10:27,120 Speaker 2: and that's uh it's a bit too much yeah yeah 246 00:10:27,120 --> 00:10:30,220 Speaker 1: i mean for me it's more of a like does it even 247 00:10:30,860 --> 00:10:33,860 Speaker 1: matter what framework we're using does it even matter 248 00:10:33,860 --> 00:10:37,260 Speaker 3: what tools we're using because 249 00:10:37,260 --> 00:10:38,600 Speaker 1: like why 250 00:10:38,620 --> 00:10:41,640 Speaker 1: would I why would anyone care if I if you can just or 251 00:10:41,640 --> 00:10:42,420 Speaker 4: the users, 252 00:10:42,900 --> 00:10:46,700 Speaker 4: that's why. So what is the most performant for the users? What 253 00:10:46,760 --> 00:10:49,800 Speaker 4: can we use to get there? And that would be the only reasons 254 00:10:50,060 --> 00:10:52,860 Speaker 4: like, it doesn't matter what's on our end, the developer 255 00:10:53,060 --> 00:10:56,340 Speaker 4: experience matters zero anymore. Like I feel like, 256 00:10:56,340 --> 00:10:57,480 Speaker 3: like 257 00:10:57,480 --> 00:10:58,440 Speaker 4: our whole 258 00:10:58,620 --> 00:11:03,160 Speaker 4: likes felt stuff is just like, built on developer experience. 259 00:11:03,440 --> 00:11:04,320 Speaker 4: And now it's like, 260 00:11:05,920 --> 00:11:06,940 Speaker 2: I don't agree with that. 261 00:11:07,260 --> 00:11:07,680 Speaker 4: You don't? 262 00:11:07,700 --> 00:11:08,040 Speaker 4: In 263 00:11:08,040 --> 00:11:12,360 Speaker 2: my experience, the A18s will give you like 70%. 264 00:11:12,440 --> 00:11:16,140 Speaker 2: You have to bring the 30% on your own to make it high quality. 265 00:11:16,520 --> 00:11:16,780 Speaker 3: I agree with that. 266 00:11:16,780 --> 00:11:17,680 Speaker 3: And for that to be easier, 267 00:11:17,930 --> 00:11:20,280 Speaker 2: you want the DX, you want the framework to be the right one. 268 00:11:21,700 --> 00:11:30,260 Speaker 2: And yeah, I don't believe in eyes closed, Vibe coding can bring you to an actual great multi-million 269 00:11:30,540 --> 00:11:31,260 Speaker 2: people product. 270 00:11:32,400 --> 00:11:32,900 Speaker 1: I don't know. 271 00:11:33,520 --> 00:11:37,440 Speaker 1: There are a lot of crappy products out there that make a lot of money. 272 00:11:38,080 --> 00:11:38,580 Speaker 2: That is true. 273 00:11:38,640 --> 00:11:38,940 Speaker 2: Oh, yeah. 274 00:11:39,320 --> 00:11:40,560 Speaker 1: You make a lot of crappy 275 00:11:40,560 --> 00:11:40,920 Speaker 2: products. 276 00:11:42,560 --> 00:11:42,820 Speaker 1: Yeah. 277 00:11:43,320 --> 00:11:48,160 Speaker 1: I mean, on the other hand, anyone can make an exercise app like me, right? 278 00:11:48,900 --> 00:11:49,000 Speaker 1: No. 279 00:11:50,060 --> 00:11:51,400 Speaker 4: So maybe it's 280 00:11:51,400 --> 00:11:52,240 Speaker 1: the case that... 281 00:11:52,240 --> 00:11:53,120 Speaker 4: A time ago, right? 282 00:11:53,700 --> 00:11:55,480 Speaker 4: But he actually coded it. 283 00:11:56,240 --> 00:11:56,500 Speaker 1: Right. 284 00:11:56,920 --> 00:11:57,040 Speaker 1: Yeah. 285 00:11:58,040 --> 00:11:59,520 Speaker 1: Wasted his time, didn't he? 286 00:12:02,000 --> 00:12:03,060 Speaker 1: I'm just kidding, Scott. 287 00:12:03,380 --> 00:12:03,900 Speaker 1: if you're listening. 288 00:12:06,580 --> 00:12:07,100 Speaker 1: All right. Yeah. 289 00:12:07,600 --> 00:12:10,320 Speaker 1: Let's talk about Svelte then on this very happy note 290 00:12:11,240 --> 00:12:13,920 Speaker 1: of LLMs taking over or maybe not. 291 00:12:14,480 --> 00:12:17,500 Speaker 1: So what is new in Svelte since last year? 292 00:12:17,980 --> 00:12:18,560 Speaker 1: It's a new year. 293 00:12:18,860 --> 00:12:21,220 Speaker 1: It's been there's been so many things that I've 294 00:12:21,220 --> 00:12:22,400 Speaker 2: been changing. 295 00:12:22,400 --> 00:12:24,120 Speaker 2: I mean, it feels like there's a lot of loose ends 296 00:12:24,340 --> 00:12:25,720 Speaker 2: that needs to be tied up soon. 297 00:12:26,780 --> 00:12:27,620 Speaker 3: Yeah. Remote 298 00:12:27,620 --> 00:12:28,060 Speaker 1: functions. 299 00:12:28,680 --> 00:12:31,220 Speaker 2: Yeah. SvelteKit 3.0 at some point. 300 00:12:31,660 --> 00:12:31,960 Speaker 2: Yeah. I'm 301 00:12:31,960 --> 00:12:32,760 Speaker 4: very excited. 302 00:12:32,980 --> 00:12:38,720 Speaker 4: Big milestone, right? Because focus has shifted now from regular spelt to spelt kit. 303 00:12:39,240 --> 00:12:40,380 Speaker 4: Yeah, it does feel like that. 304 00:12:43,180 --> 00:12:46,860 Speaker 1: Yeah. I mean, I guess we're all just waiting for remote funks to become stable 305 00:12:47,320 --> 00:12:51,620 Speaker 1: so we can start using them in production. I'm already using them in production. 306 00:12:52,180 --> 00:12:53,140 Speaker 2: I think it's a very 307 00:12:53,140 --> 00:12:55,280 Speaker 1: impressive 308 00:12:55,280 --> 00:12:59,120 Speaker 2: paradigm. Now we've seen a couple of takes on how do you do 309 00:13:00,600 --> 00:13:06,220 Speaker 2: remote functions or remote APIs in your meta framework. And I think the ones in SvelteKit 310 00:13:06,440 --> 00:13:10,640 Speaker 2: are something I've seen before. And so I think that's very important. 311 00:13:11,010 --> 00:13:14,900 Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah. Agreed. Agreed. Have you had a chance to try them yet, Brittany? 312 00:13:15,580 --> 00:13:15,700 Speaker 1: Nope. 313 00:13:16,000 --> 00:13:18,620 Speaker 1: Remote functions? Oh, you're missing out. 314 00:13:19,060 --> 00:13:19,780 Speaker 3: Maybe actually 315 00:13:19,780 --> 00:13:21,820 Speaker 1: wait until they're stable. 316 00:13:23,660 --> 00:13:27,319 Speaker 1: So you don't have to like, "Oh, I want to use this. I want to use this." But you can't because 317 00:13:27,220 --> 00:13:29,460 Speaker 1: it's experiment so understand 318 00:13:29,460 --> 00:13:33,100 Speaker 4: like when i first started coding i loved it so much i was like 319 00:13:33,240 --> 00:13:40,320 Speaker 4: taking in everything and you want to like build everything and make it better and iterate on it 320 00:13:40,380 --> 00:13:46,000 Speaker 4: but then a lot of times i would run into people and they were just like going day to day day in 321 00:13:46,100 --> 00:13:51,860 Speaker 4: day out just kind of like trying to do their job and check out and i kind of like am to that point 322 00:13:51,840 --> 00:13:57,040 Speaker 4: to where i understand that and that's because like when you're actually building like a brand 323 00:13:57,040 --> 00:14:02,540 Speaker 4: new product and you have to be like building new features and stuff you have no time to like look 324 00:14:02,660 --> 00:14:06,920 Speaker 4: at all of this stuff like you're just like oh i'm doing this this 325 00:14:06,920 --> 00:14:08,600 Speaker 2: is and then totally you're 326 00:14:08,600 --> 00:14:08,760 Speaker 4: just 327 00:14:08,860 --> 00:14:13,080 Speaker 4: always reiterating on it and there's no time for refactoring there's no time for looking at your 328 00:14:13,240 --> 00:14:15,540 Speaker 4: code base and going oh why did i do that 329 00:14:15,540 --> 00:14:19,519 Speaker 1: right right well you know now you can have claude 330 00:14:20,140 --> 00:14:21,800 Speaker 4: yeah you have to speed on the 331 00:14:21,800 --> 00:14:22,900 Speaker 1: latest news and stuff 332 00:14:22,900 --> 00:14:24,800 Speaker 4: yeah or you 333 00:14:24,800 --> 00:14:26,260 Speaker 1: can use the new svelte society 334 00:14:26,640 --> 00:14:26,820 Speaker 1: website 335 00:14:26,820 --> 00:14:31,720 Speaker 4: oh good see what i did there yeah yeah yeah my 336 00:14:31,720 --> 00:14:36,600 Speaker 1: segway um i think i mentioned the the 337 00:14:36,600 --> 00:14:42,300 Speaker 1: new svelte society website uh on on the podcast before but but not i haven't really talked that 338 00:14:42,380 --> 00:14:50,060 Speaker 1: much about it um it's been going nicely we've we've got a bunch of submitters uh and people 339 00:14:50,840 --> 00:14:51,700 Speaker 1: adding stuff to it. 340 00:14:51,990 --> 00:14:53,580 Speaker 1: So that's always nice to see. 341 00:14:54,360 --> 00:14:55,660 Speaker 1: I've restructured it a bit. 342 00:14:56,460 --> 00:14:57,900 Speaker 1: I like the search and everything 343 00:14:58,180 --> 00:15:00,020 Speaker 1: works without JavaScript, which 344 00:15:00,020 --> 00:15:00,380 Speaker 1: is kind of 345 00:15:00,380 --> 00:15:00,660 Speaker 3: cool. 346 00:15:01,360 --> 00:15:01,860 Speaker 1: It's an 347 00:15:01,960 --> 00:15:03,720 Speaker 1: omni-search bar, so you 348 00:15:03,720 --> 00:15:03,880 Speaker 5: can 349 00:15:03,950 --> 00:15:04,960 Speaker 5: search in tags and stuff. 350 00:15:05,960 --> 00:15:06,400 Speaker 5: Yeah, 351 00:15:06,400 --> 00:15:07,280 Speaker 1: it's pretty nice. 352 00:15:08,040 --> 00:15:10,020 Speaker 1: And tomorrow, or a couple 353 00:15:10,020 --> 00:15:10,940 Speaker 1: of days, we'll see 354 00:15:11,870 --> 00:15:13,740 Speaker 1: when it's done, I'm actually pushing 355 00:15:13,770 --> 00:15:15,840 Speaker 1: a new feature where people 356 00:15:16,120 --> 00:15:17,840 Speaker 1: or companies can submit jobs 357 00:15:18,190 --> 00:15:18,620 Speaker 1: on the website. 358 00:15:20,840 --> 00:15:23,660 Speaker 4: can i like website on live 359 00:15:23,660 --> 00:15:28,040 Speaker 1: absolutely absolutely what's what's the nav 360 00:15:28,040 --> 00:15:29,400 Speaker 4: on the left doesn't have 361 00:15:29,500 --> 00:15:35,500 Speaker 4: cursor pointer and like there's no like link tree so when you hover over it you don't see where 362 00:15:35,600 --> 00:15:35,980 Speaker 4: you're going 363 00:15:35,980 --> 00:15:37,460 Speaker 1: what mine 364 00:15:37,460 --> 00:15:38,360 Speaker 2: has cursor pointer 365 00:15:38,360 --> 00:15:40,580 Speaker 1: yeah mine as well is 366 00:15:40,580 --> 00:15:41,780 Speaker 4: it because i'm in full screen 367 00:15:42,400 --> 00:15:49,100 Speaker 4: no i'm i'm on a macbook and i'm in chrome and i have no cursor pointer and i don't see the links 368 00:15:49,220 --> 00:15:53,820 Speaker 1: That is weird because I can see the links and I have a cursor as well. 369 00:15:54,020 --> 00:15:54,580 Speaker 2: Yeah, me too. 370 00:15:55,240 --> 00:15:55,320 Speaker 2: I 371 00:15:55,320 --> 00:15:56,260 Speaker 4: can see 372 00:15:56,260 --> 00:15:57,020 Speaker 2: Cat's cursor. 373 00:15:59,660 --> 00:16:00,760 Speaker 4: Maybe it's just a bug. 374 00:16:00,880 --> 00:16:01,600 Speaker 4: I mean, I'm in full 375 00:16:01,600 --> 00:16:02,640 Speaker 1: screen and I'm on 376 00:16:02,640 --> 00:16:03,680 Speaker 4: a trackpad, so maybe 377 00:16:03,680 --> 00:16:04,980 Speaker 1: it's me. 378 00:16:05,240 --> 00:16:05,520 Speaker 1: It 379 00:16:05,520 --> 00:16:06,040 Speaker 3: could very well 380 00:16:06,040 --> 00:16:06,540 Speaker 1: be a bug. 381 00:16:07,040 --> 00:16:07,920 Speaker 1: It's like browser 382 00:16:07,920 --> 00:16:08,680 Speaker 4: difference thing. 383 00:16:08,880 --> 00:16:10,220 Speaker 4: Oh, that's another thing. 384 00:16:10,639 --> 00:16:13,180 Speaker 4: I don't want to go on a tangent yet, so keep talking. 385 00:16:15,120 --> 00:16:16,940 Speaker 4: I'll save it in my brain maybe. 386 00:16:17,480 --> 00:16:17,800 Speaker 1: All right. 387 00:16:18,120 --> 00:16:18,200 Speaker 1: Yeah. 388 00:16:18,460 --> 00:16:18,540 Speaker 1: Yeah. 389 00:16:19,000 --> 00:16:23,980 Speaker 1: Yeah, so basically people can post their jobs on the site. 390 00:16:24,370 --> 00:16:29,500 Speaker 1: I'm sure you folks have seen the job postings channel on the Svelte Discord. 391 00:16:30,560 --> 00:16:37,520 Speaker 1: And unfortunately, like the quality of submissions and like the replies to posts, not the best. 392 00:16:37,830 --> 00:16:42,840 Speaker 1: Like it's very often low quality, like people that don't even read the 393 00:16:42,840 --> 00:16:43,200 Speaker 4: text and stuff. 394 00:16:43,200 --> 00:16:45,380 Speaker 4: Are you trying to take Svelte jobs from 395 00:16:45,380 --> 00:16:48,560 Speaker 1: the... 396 00:16:48,580 --> 00:16:48,840 Speaker 1: discord 397 00:16:48,840 --> 00:16:53,760 Speaker 4: isn't it buddy and chris uh that do uh svelte jobs the 398 00:16:53,760 --> 00:16:55,340 Speaker 1: yeah yeah but that that's that's 399 00:16:55,380 --> 00:16:58,700 Speaker 1: another site that's a that's uh i know i knew what 400 00:16:58,700 --> 00:17:01,420 Speaker 4: you were talking about i just like uh svelte jobs 401 00:17:01,600 --> 00:17:06,760 Speaker 4: is a site but you can get the newsletter sent to you and like so are you trying to take that from 402 00:17:07,220 --> 00:17:09,780 Speaker 4: them and put it on to the website i mean 403 00:17:09,780 --> 00:17:12,660 Speaker 1: it depends on how you how you look at it it's definitely a 404 00:17:12,780 --> 00:17:13,959 Speaker 1: competitor right of some 405 00:17:13,959 --> 00:17:15,180 Speaker 4: sort first 406 00:17:15,180 --> 00:17:17,860 Speaker 1: off i think there's definitely room for for more than one 407 00:17:18,260 --> 00:17:19,079 Speaker 1: job board. 408 00:17:20,000 --> 00:17:22,939 Speaker 1: But I've been talking about this job board for years. 409 00:17:23,240 --> 00:17:26,660 Speaker 1: So I feel like it's fine. 410 00:17:28,180 --> 00:17:28,400 Speaker 1: But yeah. 411 00:17:28,840 --> 00:17:33,280 Speaker 1: So it is a bit of a competitor, but I think we can both manage. 412 00:17:33,720 --> 00:17:35,960 Speaker 1: Anyway, so that's one feature. 413 00:17:36,240 --> 00:17:39,120 Speaker 1: Another feature is companies can buy sponsor slots on the website. 414 00:17:39,240 --> 00:17:40,480 Speaker 1: So that's interesting. 415 00:17:42,120 --> 00:17:44,880 Speaker 1: And also there's a newsletter coming as well. 416 00:17:45,300 --> 00:17:46,140 Speaker 3: Oh, that's great. 417 00:17:46,720 --> 00:17:48,900 Speaker 2: RSS? Or without RSS? 418 00:17:49,200 --> 00:17:55,780 Speaker 1: I haven't implemented RSS, but the idea is that the newsletters will be on the site as well. 419 00:17:56,580 --> 00:18:00,000 Speaker 1: So you can go and read it in the feed. That's the idea at least. 420 00:18:00,830 --> 00:18:01,900 Speaker 4: But it's 421 00:18:01,900 --> 00:18:03,220 Speaker 1: not implemented yet. Sorry? 422 00:18:03,360 --> 00:18:10,880 Speaker 4: Is there a way that we could go to Danny and maybe see if we could integrate what's new in Svelte? 423 00:18:10,880 --> 00:18:16,200 Speaker 4: Because I know a while ago he was looking for help and wanting someone to do that. 424 00:18:16,820 --> 00:18:24,240 Speaker 1: So I think the issue with like the, so for those that don't know, there's a Svelte newsletter that you can subscribe to. 425 00:18:24,390 --> 00:18:25,800 Speaker 1: I think it's on Substack at the moment. 426 00:18:26,380 --> 00:18:33,380 Speaker 1: But the issue is that like there's always this discussion that pops up about like, oh, where do we host the emailing list? 427 00:18:33,470 --> 00:18:35,740 Speaker 1: Where do we do this? 428 00:18:35,900 --> 00:18:36,820 Speaker 1: How do we do this? 429 00:18:37,040 --> 00:18:38,020 Speaker 1: And blah, blah, blah. 430 00:18:38,440 --> 00:18:41,760 Speaker 1: And the issue isn't so much how to do it. 431 00:18:41,820 --> 00:18:47,840 Speaker 1: it's more like deciding and having a lot of people in this in the svelte maintainers group decide on 432 00:18:47,980 --> 00:18:48,260 Speaker 1: what to do 433 00:18:48,260 --> 00:18:49,540 Speaker 2: because 434 00:18:49,540 --> 00:18:53,780 Speaker 1: i don't think they can they can come to a decision on on what they want to do i 435 00:18:53,900 --> 00:18:59,000 Speaker 1: think it's a huge missed opportunity to not have like a proper subscribe button on the on the 436 00:18:59,320 --> 00:19:00,680 Speaker 1: svelte website for example but 437 00:19:00,680 --> 00:19:01,440 Speaker 2: i mean it 438 00:19:01,440 --> 00:19:02,540 Speaker 1: is what it is um 439 00:19:02,540 --> 00:19:05,640 Speaker 2: but so i mean on svelte society if you're 440 00:19:05,660 --> 00:19:11,180 Speaker 2: curating now like a feed of news then like putting those into a weekly or 441 00:19:11,180 --> 00:19:11,500 Speaker 4: monthly 442 00:19:11,500 --> 00:19:13,120 Speaker 2: email or 443 00:19:13,120 --> 00:19:13,440 Speaker 4: i mean 444 00:19:13,540 --> 00:19:19,200 Speaker 4: that's essentially what oh you mean the the post on svelte society yeah 445 00:19:19,200 --> 00:19:19,460 Speaker 2: i mean 446 00:19:19,460 --> 00:19:20,160 Speaker 4: because those are 447 00:19:20,240 --> 00:19:20,380 Speaker 4: also 448 00:19:20,380 --> 00:19:21,120 Speaker 2: news right i mean 449 00:19:21,120 --> 00:19:22,540 Speaker 4: yeah you'll 450 00:19:22,540 --> 00:19:25,560 Speaker 2: probably have to like hand curate and you can't just put in every 451 00:19:25,720 --> 00:19:26,380 Speaker 2: post and i think 452 00:19:26,380 --> 00:19:27,980 Speaker 4: no he's gonna claude curate 453 00:19:27,980 --> 00:19:31,280 Speaker 2: of course no 454 00:19:31,280 --> 00:19:31,860 Speaker 3: i didn't say which 455 00:19:31,860 --> 00:19:32,340 Speaker 1: hand it was 456 00:19:34,520 --> 00:19:38,340 Speaker 1: I actually used a package called betterSvelte email, 457 00:19:38,960 --> 00:19:42,100 Speaker 1: which lets you write emails in Svelte. 458 00:19:42,500 --> 00:19:43,960 Speaker 3: So you write 459 00:19:43,960 --> 00:19:44,960 Speaker 1: like a Svelte, 460 00:19:45,480 --> 00:19:47,140 Speaker 1: you write like a template using Svelte, 461 00:19:47,640 --> 00:19:49,760 Speaker 1: and then you just pass in like props to it 462 00:19:49,860 --> 00:19:51,080 Speaker 1: and it renders out in a 463 00:19:51,080 --> 00:19:51,560 Speaker 4: proper email. 464 00:19:51,560 --> 00:19:52,180 Speaker 4: That sounds awesome. 465 00:19:52,800 --> 00:19:55,360 Speaker 4: Do you remember more from Stockholm? 466 00:19:57,120 --> 00:19:58,080 Speaker 1: Yes, yes, yes. 467 00:19:58,580 --> 00:20:00,300 Speaker 4: The one with the really cute mascot 468 00:20:00,580 --> 00:20:01,080 Speaker 4: that's like a little 469 00:20:01,080 --> 00:20:01,520 Speaker 1: smart. 470 00:20:02,740 --> 00:20:03,919 Speaker 4: They were using Svelte 471 00:20:03,940 --> 00:20:06,400 Speaker 4: and it's like an email template service. 472 00:20:07,380 --> 00:20:09,400 Speaker 4: Our schools here use that now. 473 00:20:10,200 --> 00:20:10,320 Speaker 1: Right. 474 00:20:10,440 --> 00:20:14,660 Speaker 1: It was like one of the biggest newsletters for schools or something. 475 00:20:15,060 --> 00:20:15,420 Speaker 4: Yeah. 476 00:20:16,380 --> 00:20:16,680 Speaker 1: Wild. 477 00:20:17,220 --> 00:20:17,840 Speaker 1: It's pretty crazy. 478 00:20:18,880 --> 00:20:22,020 Speaker 1: But yeah, so going back to the Spell Society website, 479 00:20:22,740 --> 00:20:24,160 Speaker 1: it's coming along nicely. 480 00:20:24,480 --> 00:20:29,360 Speaker 1: I hope we get a lot of high-quality submissions and job postings 481 00:20:29,680 --> 00:20:31,900 Speaker 1: and that more people use it as well. 482 00:20:32,260 --> 00:20:42,160 Speaker 1: So the idea is to kind of create a sort of a flywheel situation where people get an account on the Svelte Society website to apply to a job, right? 483 00:20:42,300 --> 00:20:45,260 Speaker 1: Because you need to log in and then you apply to the job, right? 484 00:20:45,660 --> 00:20:46,180 Speaker 1: Using your profile. 485 00:20:46,980 --> 00:20:48,700 Speaker 1: But then they also stay for the content. 486 00:20:50,100 --> 00:20:54,240 Speaker 1: And somehow it's going to end up being a sustainable thing, right? 487 00:20:54,440 --> 00:20:56,800 Speaker 1: So we can fund this long term. 488 00:20:57,820 --> 00:20:58,520 Speaker 1: But we'll see. 489 00:20:58,980 --> 00:21:00,080 Speaker 1: LLMs are going to take our jobs. 490 00:21:00,160 --> 00:21:02,560 Speaker 1: So I'm not a doomer. 491 00:21:02,680 --> 00:21:04,080 Speaker 1: I don't think anything's there. 492 00:21:04,250 --> 00:21:05,220 Speaker 1: I mean, it definitely 493 00:21:05,220 --> 00:21:06,340 Speaker 4: takes some jobs. 494 00:21:06,600 --> 00:21:08,560 Speaker 4: I think it definitely will take some jobs, 495 00:21:08,800 --> 00:21:11,480 Speaker 4: but I think developers who know what they're doing and can, 496 00:21:12,340 --> 00:21:14,140 Speaker 4: like the LLM can't do it by themselves. 497 00:21:14,310 --> 00:21:17,260 Speaker 4: So you're still going to need some developer oversight. 498 00:21:17,940 --> 00:21:18,080 Speaker 1: Yeah. 499 00:21:18,600 --> 00:21:18,680 Speaker 1: Yeah. 500 00:21:19,880 --> 00:21:20,140 Speaker 1: All right. 501 00:21:21,100 --> 00:21:25,460 Speaker 1: That's pretty much what I got about the Svelte Society website. 502 00:21:26,980 --> 00:21:27,180 Speaker 4: Okay. 503 00:21:27,280 --> 00:21:27,760 Speaker 4: You wanted 504 00:21:27,760 --> 00:21:28,720 Speaker 1: to go on a tangent, Brittany. 505 00:21:28,940 --> 00:21:37,400 Speaker 4: Yeah, the tangent I was going to go on is because I was saying that about being on a browser or on a MacBook or whatever, like all the different browsers and things. 506 00:21:37,490 --> 00:21:40,580 Speaker 4: But Mozilla may be going away is what I hear. 507 00:21:40,940 --> 00:21:41,660 Speaker 4: We all heard this. 508 00:21:42,340 --> 00:21:42,520 Speaker 2: What? 509 00:21:43,120 --> 00:21:44,020 Speaker 3: Haven't you said that 510 00:21:44,020 --> 00:21:45,080 Speaker 2: for 10 years or something? 511 00:21:45,340 --> 00:21:45,800 Speaker 2: What's new? 512 00:21:47,400 --> 00:21:51,060 Speaker 4: So they released something about them like investing in AI. 513 00:21:51,620 --> 00:21:54,720 Speaker 4: And it was probably just like clickbaity stuff. 514 00:21:55,000 --> 00:21:58,560 Speaker 4: But somebody was saying like, oh, it was actually syntax. 515 00:21:58,860 --> 00:22:01,280 Speaker 4: and it was just a short that I saw just flash by, 516 00:22:01,420 --> 00:22:04,400 Speaker 4: but it was Wes and Scott talking Mozilla 517 00:22:04,780 --> 00:22:07,600 Speaker 4: and like, because now they're like into this AI stuff 518 00:22:07,840 --> 00:22:10,380 Speaker 4: and it was either this or they're just like gone. 519 00:22:10,820 --> 00:22:12,940 Speaker 4: Like, so if this doesn't pan out for them, 520 00:22:13,480 --> 00:22:15,060 Speaker 4: like it may just die out. 521 00:22:15,540 --> 00:22:15,920 Speaker 4: - Ah, right. 522 00:22:16,180 --> 00:22:17,680 Speaker 4: - I think it was a good take. 523 00:22:18,040 --> 00:22:23,020 Speaker 2: I think in general, Firefox and Mozilla 524 00:22:23,020 --> 00:22:24,780 Speaker 2: has always been like, hey, we're the nerdy guys. 525 00:22:25,800 --> 00:22:25,920 Speaker 2: And 526 00:22:25,920 --> 00:22:26,440 Speaker 3: the 527 00:22:26,440 --> 00:22:28,760 Speaker 2: audience of them, I mean, she's totally fine. 528 00:22:29,320 --> 00:22:33,160 Speaker 2: The audience of that is, please don't put AI into my product. 529 00:22:33,270 --> 00:22:33,400 Speaker 2: And 530 00:22:33,400 --> 00:22:34,140 Speaker 3: so then when Mozilla 531 00:22:34,140 --> 00:22:37,360 Speaker 2: comes out and says, hey, we're going to love AI, then what's left? 532 00:22:37,750 --> 00:22:38,480 Speaker 2: Who are you targeting? 533 00:22:39,020 --> 00:22:47,400 Speaker 2: And they already got under the 2% usage, which is like a marker in the US because the government 534 00:22:47,600 --> 00:22:50,260 Speaker 2: websites say that they support anything more than 2%. 535 00:22:50,680 --> 00:22:52,920 Speaker 2: So essentially government websites don't support Firefox. 536 00:22:54,960 --> 00:22:57,300 Speaker 4: What makes no support anything? 537 00:22:57,340 --> 00:22:59,900 Speaker 4: Have you seen a government website in America? 538 00:23:00,580 --> 00:23:02,080 Speaker 2: I've heard they're pretty brutal. 539 00:23:02,580 --> 00:23:05,820 Speaker 4: They are the worst code you will ever see in your life. 540 00:23:06,600 --> 00:23:07,600 Speaker 2: I've seen pretty bad code. 541 00:23:07,830 --> 00:23:09,360 Speaker 2: My husband had one one time 542 00:23:09,360 --> 00:23:10,840 Speaker 4: where you clicked into the input, 543 00:23:11,220 --> 00:23:13,160 Speaker 4: and instead of allowing you to type on your keyboard, 544 00:23:13,470 --> 00:23:14,220 Speaker 4: it had a keyboard. 545 00:23:14,410 --> 00:23:15,020 Speaker 4: It popped up. 546 00:23:18,660 --> 00:23:19,260 Speaker 4: What is 547 00:23:19,260 --> 00:23:19,500 Speaker 3: this? 548 00:23:20,380 --> 00:23:22,460 Speaker 1: It's pretty accessible, though, one could argue. 549 00:23:23,080 --> 00:23:23,820 Speaker 1: Like, if you 550 00:23:23,820 --> 00:23:24,360 Speaker 2: only have a mouse. 551 00:23:24,360 --> 00:23:25,340 Speaker 2: I don't want to argue that, really? 552 00:23:25,620 --> 00:23:26,340 Speaker 2: Like, really? 553 00:23:26,580 --> 00:23:27,320 Speaker 2: that I 554 00:23:27,320 --> 00:23:30,220 Speaker 3: need 555 00:23:30,220 --> 00:23:34,360 Speaker 2: to try that gym tracking app out that you're building Kevin that's where your idea of 556 00:23:34,960 --> 00:23:41,680 Speaker 2: accessibility then we need to know I mean I think I think that's that's an interesting idea about 557 00:23:41,780 --> 00:23:48,740 Speaker 2: Mozilla we thought that Mozilla would die because the like the Google deal was being struck down by 558 00:23:49,280 --> 00:23:56,960 Speaker 2: the government right they kept it alive in some court thing uh so we'll see 559 00:23:56,960 --> 00:23:58,060 Speaker 4: they did yeah 560 00:23:58,620 --> 00:24:04,620 Speaker 4: that's gone through with the government like trying to stop the monopolization of things like 561 00:24:04,780 --> 00:24:06,880 Speaker 4: i feel like it's not following through 562 00:24:06,880 --> 00:24:10,460 Speaker 2: right yeah they're following back and forth i 563 00:24:10,460 --> 00:24:11,820 Speaker 1: think so with 564 00:24:11,880 --> 00:24:22,600 Speaker 1: So my take would be, not having heard Scott and Wes's takes, is if they pivot to AI, they could potentially find a new audience 565 00:24:22,600 --> 00:24:24,380 Speaker 4: and grow their ears of bass. 566 00:24:24,780 --> 00:24:26,700 Speaker 1: That's their thinking, probably, right? 567 00:24:26,860 --> 00:24:27,320 Speaker 4: I don't think it's 568 00:24:27,320 --> 00:24:28,200 Speaker 1: going to happen, but 569 00:24:28,200 --> 00:24:30,100 Speaker 4: that's probably what they're... 570 00:24:30,160 --> 00:24:32,480 Speaker 4: Basically, their last hope is their 571 00:24:32,480 --> 00:24:33,560 Speaker 1: lifeline 572 00:24:33,560 --> 00:24:37,120 Speaker 4: of like, okay, we have to do this or we're just dead anyway. 573 00:24:37,850 --> 00:24:39,200 Speaker 4: So why not try this? 574 00:24:39,600 --> 00:24:39,780 Speaker 1: Yeah. 575 00:24:40,340 --> 00:24:40,840 Speaker 1: No, totally. 576 00:24:41,160 --> 00:24:51,900 Speaker 2: So I think there's a counter view, well, not directly to that, but have you seen Vivaldi's, they did a video of this. Vivaldi is like this other 577 00:24:51,900 --> 00:24:53,640 Speaker 1: from Norway. 578 00:24:53,900 --> 00:24:55,520 Speaker 1: I have not, I haven't seen it. 579 00:24:56,000 --> 00:25:06,820 Speaker 2: It's like very configurable browser. It's great for the power users. And they uploaded this post where it's like, this is our roadmap for 2006. And it's just the CEO coming out and saying, it's not AI. 580 00:25:07,060 --> 00:25:12,200 Speaker 2: i love that so much that was so bold 581 00:25:12,200 --> 00:25:15,300 Speaker 1: marketing yeah it was great 582 00:25:15,300 --> 00:25:17,220 Speaker 2: and he really knew how to speak 583 00:25:17,300 --> 00:25:18,180 Speaker 2: to his audience from 584 00:25:18,180 --> 00:25:21,240 Speaker 4: the short that i said i mean obviously i'm not going to speak for wes and scott 585 00:25:21,340 --> 00:25:28,640 Speaker 4: but wes was saying just that um oh i just lost my train of thought that um this is something that 586 00:25:28,820 --> 00:25:31,440 Speaker 4: they probably had to do but um 587 00:25:31,440 --> 00:25:32,680 Speaker 1: yeah i'm 588 00:25:32,680 --> 00:25:34,679 Speaker 4: gonna have to come back to it i i can't remember 589 00:25:35,160 --> 00:25:35,220 Speaker 4: a 590 00:25:35,220 --> 00:25:36,160 Speaker 1: lot yeah it 591 00:25:36,160 --> 00:25:38,360 Speaker 4: flew out of my brain i 592 00:25:38,360 --> 00:25:42,100 Speaker 1: i think the the thing that people don't like about most of 593 00:25:42,100 --> 00:25:48,760 Speaker 1: love is that they're one paying their ceo like insane amounts of money uh and it's like the 594 00:25:48,880 --> 00:25:50,240 Speaker 1: numbers are just dropping so 595 00:25:50,240 --> 00:25:51,380 Speaker 4: it's like how 596 00:25:51,380 --> 00:25:55,560 Speaker 1: do you how do you actually justify that amount of money 597 00:25:56,120 --> 00:26:01,539 Speaker 1: like i could see it if they were growing but yeah and there are all these other like services around 598 00:26:01,560 --> 00:26:06,500 Speaker 1: like they they do did like a password didn't they do like a password thing for a while and then they 599 00:26:06,600 --> 00:26:09,060 Speaker 1: did something like they they have all these like build their own 600 00:26:09,060 --> 00:26:10,000 Speaker 3: other stuff 601 00:26:10,000 --> 00:26:11,780 Speaker 1: yeah right right yeah 602 00:26:12,180 --> 00:26:17,640 Speaker 1: so there's all this other stuff why not just focus on the web browser people actually like to use but 603 00:26:18,060 --> 00:26:20,020 Speaker 4: i remember what it was now it's that it's 604 00:26:20,020 --> 00:26:20,820 Speaker 1: good good 605 00:26:20,820 --> 00:26:23,380 Speaker 4: for the web in general to have caution and so it's 606 00:26:26,120 --> 00:26:26,440 Speaker 3: Absolutely. 607 00:26:26,440 --> 00:26:26,900 Speaker 3: Other browsers 608 00:26:26,900 --> 00:26:27,400 Speaker 4: around. 609 00:26:27,570 --> 00:26:29,760 Speaker 4: I mean, what is Safari's percentage? 610 00:26:30,090 --> 00:26:30,500 Speaker 4: I wonder. 611 00:26:31,050 --> 00:26:31,480 Speaker 4: Does anyone 612 00:26:31,480 --> 00:26:31,740 Speaker 1: know? 613 00:26:32,420 --> 00:26:32,980 Speaker 1: Oh, it's a lot. 614 00:26:33,360 --> 00:26:33,700 Speaker 1: Like, it's 615 00:26:33,700 --> 00:26:34,540 Speaker 4: like 40 616 00:26:34,540 --> 00:26:35,240 Speaker 3: % or something. 617 00:26:35,460 --> 00:26:35,520 Speaker 3: Yeah, 618 00:26:35,600 --> 00:26:35,780 Speaker 1: yeah. 619 00:26:36,420 --> 00:26:38,400 Speaker 1: Because you have to think about all the iPhones in Safari. 620 00:26:39,060 --> 00:26:41,640 Speaker 4: Is it because, are they using Safari? 621 00:26:42,060 --> 00:26:45,960 Speaker 4: Or is it because, like, does it count if it's Chrome on 622 00:26:45,960 --> 00:26:46,360 Speaker 1: iPhone? 623 00:26:46,470 --> 00:26:48,940 Speaker 1: It counts as Safari, right? 624 00:26:49,460 --> 00:26:49,560 Speaker 1: Yeah. 625 00:26:50,620 --> 00:26:51,160 Speaker 4: Oh, okay. 626 00:26:51,370 --> 00:26:51,980 Speaker 4: That makes sense. 627 00:26:52,220 --> 00:26:52,280 Speaker 1: Yeah. 628 00:26:52,720 --> 00:26:53,640 Speaker 1: Because I'm using Chrome 629 00:26:53,640 --> 00:26:56,120 Speaker 4: on my iPhone, but it's still Safari. 630 00:26:56,680 --> 00:26:56,960 Speaker 1: Yeah. 631 00:26:57,420 --> 00:27:02,020 Speaker 1: I think there's a couple of countries where they opened up that because of legal reasons. 632 00:27:02,140 --> 00:27:04,140 Speaker 1: I don't remember which ones, but yeah. 633 00:27:04,860 --> 00:27:05,180 Speaker 4: Interesting. 634 00:27:05,840 --> 00:27:09,040 Speaker 1: I hope Firefox continues and lives on. 635 00:27:09,540 --> 00:27:10,260 Speaker 2: Partly because I'm 636 00:27:10,260 --> 00:27:12,220 Speaker 1: using a Firefox fork. 637 00:27:13,320 --> 00:27:15,460 Speaker 2: I feel so torn about this, to be honest. 638 00:27:15,700 --> 00:27:22,100 Speaker 2: Because I agree that having multiple people from different companies working towards making the web better is awesome. 639 00:27:22,760 --> 00:27:25,900 Speaker 2: I mean, a Chrome-only web, I think that would be... 640 00:27:26,140 --> 00:27:26,260 Speaker 2: Yeah. 641 00:27:27,000 --> 00:27:32,520 Speaker 2: But also, I mean, it's just annoying to have to support three or four different browsers 642 00:27:32,740 --> 00:27:34,100 Speaker 2: when I look at the support tables. 643 00:27:34,280 --> 00:27:35,140 Speaker 2: Can I use this feature? 644 00:27:35,200 --> 00:27:37,660 Speaker 2: No, you can't because this browser doesn't support it. 645 00:27:37,750 --> 00:27:38,580 Speaker 2: So that's super annoying. 646 00:27:38,630 --> 00:27:45,580 Speaker 2: And it looks like Firefox sort of people or the product lacking behind the other browsers 647 00:27:45,630 --> 00:27:46,000 Speaker 2: at the moment. 648 00:27:46,290 --> 00:27:47,680 Speaker 2: And so that just annoys me. 649 00:27:47,920 --> 00:27:50,240 Speaker 4: Are any of the engines open sourced? 650 00:27:50,590 --> 00:27:50,800 Speaker 2: Oh, yeah. 651 00:27:51,620 --> 00:27:53,840 Speaker 4: like they're all open source so spider monkey 652 00:27:53,840 --> 00:27:54,760 Speaker 2: like 653 00:27:54,760 --> 00:27:55,940 Speaker 4: all of those are like 654 00:27:55,940 --> 00:27:57,200 Speaker 2: yeah so 655 00:27:57,200 --> 00:27:58,820 Speaker 4: i mean is it the 656 00:27:59,030 --> 00:28:04,480 Speaker 4: worst thing like i don't want firefox to die i i love firefox i actually stopped using it a little 657 00:28:04,550 --> 00:28:10,160 Speaker 4: over a year ago because just i feel like companies really invest in chrome and like google products 658 00:28:10,330 --> 00:28:15,460 Speaker 4: and then it's just all the more integrated all the apple like all of them like anytime you get 659 00:28:15,440 --> 00:28:19,040 Speaker 4: in an ecosystem, like you just get a better experience, I feel like. 660 00:28:19,200 --> 00:28:25,000 Speaker 4: But as long as the engines are open source and people can keep doing different browsers 661 00:28:25,300 --> 00:28:29,000 Speaker 4: and different things, there may still be the competition piece of it. 662 00:28:29,300 --> 00:28:31,340 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, you could have forks of Chromium, right? 663 00:28:31,500 --> 00:28:32,920 Speaker 1: But then, yeah. 664 00:28:33,140 --> 00:28:34,620 Speaker 1: But you can't really control 665 00:28:34,620 --> 00:28:36,780 Speaker 2: what you like, what the browser supports, right? 666 00:28:36,980 --> 00:28:38,060 Speaker 2: If you're just forking Chromium. 667 00:28:38,420 --> 00:28:38,640 Speaker 2: Yeah. 668 00:28:39,170 --> 00:28:39,300 Speaker 2: Right. 669 00:28:39,600 --> 00:28:43,880 Speaker 2: But what we did see, like when Microsoft, they went in and used Chromium on their edge, 670 00:28:44,380 --> 00:28:49,160 Speaker 2: I mean, that has led to a lot of Microsoft people now being part of the steering committees and 671 00:28:49,160 --> 00:28:50,780 Speaker 4: Microsoft 672 00:28:50,780 --> 00:28:52,420 Speaker 2: contributing a lot to Chrome. 673 00:28:52,690 --> 00:28:52,800 Speaker 2: So 674 00:28:52,800 --> 00:28:55,540 Speaker 4: that kind of thing would be good. 675 00:28:55,550 --> 00:29:01,720 Speaker 4: So if another company came along and but if Mozilla dies, does Spider Monkey go away? 676 00:29:02,740 --> 00:29:03,720 Speaker 1: Probably long term, right? 677 00:29:04,130 --> 00:29:06,080 Speaker 1: Because no one's going to keep working on it. 678 00:29:06,390 --> 00:29:08,920 Speaker 1: So it's just going to fall behind more and more because 679 00:29:08,920 --> 00:29:09,720 Speaker 3: there 680 00:29:09,720 --> 00:29:11,880 Speaker 1: are new features added to Chrome and Safari. 681 00:29:12,280 --> 00:29:12,500 Speaker 1: So 682 00:29:12,500 --> 00:29:14,260 Speaker 3: maybe 683 00:29:14,260 --> 00:29:18,580 Speaker 1: in 10 years, it's going to be one of those browsers that are just way, way behind. 684 00:29:18,920 --> 00:29:21,800 Speaker 1: But I mean, we do have other browsers coming up, right? 685 00:29:21,940 --> 00:29:23,560 Speaker 1: Like Lady Bird is a thing. 686 00:29:23,720 --> 00:29:24,000 Speaker 2: Oh, yeah. 687 00:29:24,940 --> 00:29:25,680 Speaker 2: That's wild. 688 00:29:25,980 --> 00:29:28,760 Speaker 2: It's like five people or even less than five. 689 00:29:29,000 --> 00:29:30,920 Speaker 2: That's like, let's do our own browser engine. 690 00:29:31,860 --> 00:29:32,800 Speaker 4: Oh, they're building their own. 691 00:29:33,020 --> 00:29:33,120 Speaker 1: Yeah. 692 00:29:33,679 --> 00:29:34,080 Speaker 2: Yeah. 693 00:29:34,520 --> 00:29:34,740 Speaker 1: Yeah. 694 00:29:35,559 --> 00:29:35,960 Speaker 2: Like 695 00:29:35,960 --> 00:29:37,880 Speaker 4: this one genius. 696 00:29:38,700 --> 00:29:39,500 Speaker 2: You said Lady Bird. 697 00:29:39,580 --> 00:29:39,920 Speaker 2: it's like 698 00:29:39,920 --> 00:29:43,980 Speaker 4: ladybird johnson like the vice president's or the president's wife 699 00:29:43,980 --> 00:29:45,040 Speaker 2: it's very 700 00:29:46,140 --> 00:29:51,020 Speaker 4: ladybird johnson was ladybird was the name of uh uh i can't 701 00:29:51,020 --> 00:29:53,160 Speaker 1: remember president johnson oh i see i 702 00:29:53,160 --> 00:30:00,760 Speaker 1: see yeah oh that was where my interesting yeah no this is a browser and i mean there are a couple 703 00:30:00,880 --> 00:30:06,919 Speaker 1: of other browsers as well like you have this uh is it servo that's also another one that's 704 00:30:06,940 --> 00:30:09,460 Speaker 2: Yeah, that's an engine that mostly by-- 705 00:30:09,500 --> 00:30:10,040 Speaker 2: Started by 706 00:30:10,040 --> 00:30:10,540 Speaker 1: Mozilla, 707 00:30:10,920 --> 00:30:11,660 Speaker 2: I think. 708 00:30:12,060 --> 00:30:14,060 Speaker 2: And then they don't use it anyway, as far as I remember. 709 00:30:14,160 --> 00:30:14,240 Speaker 2: No. 710 00:30:14,630 --> 00:30:15,980 Speaker 4: So they're going to compete with themselves? 711 00:30:17,060 --> 00:30:18,020 Speaker 1: I think maybe they tried to 712 00:30:18,020 --> 00:30:18,880 Speaker 2: disrupt themselves. 713 00:30:19,080 --> 00:30:19,500 Speaker 2: That's 714 00:30:19,500 --> 00:30:20,580 Speaker 1: not 715 00:30:20,580 --> 00:30:22,600 Speaker 2: unusual, that you need to do something new. 716 00:30:23,620 --> 00:30:24,560 Speaker 2: I think it was a good idea. 717 00:30:25,050 --> 00:30:25,160 Speaker 1: Yeah. 718 00:30:25,480 --> 00:30:30,540 Speaker 1: Because the idea was to parallelize the layouting of CSS and stuff. 719 00:30:30,760 --> 00:30:36,320 Speaker 1: So it would give you a pretty decent performance increase on the web. 720 00:30:36,880 --> 00:30:38,180 Speaker 1: There is something weird happening 721 00:30:38,180 --> 00:30:41,220 Speaker 4: with my computer, by the way, because now I can't even see the time. 722 00:30:42,820 --> 00:30:44,140 Speaker 3: I'm like slowly trying 723 00:30:44,140 --> 00:30:46,560 Speaker 4: to look at the time and it's not popping down. 724 00:30:46,750 --> 00:30:47,020 Speaker 4: Like I 725 00:30:47,020 --> 00:30:47,920 Speaker 3: probably need 726 00:30:47,920 --> 00:30:47,940 Speaker 1: to. 727 00:30:48,020 --> 00:30:48,240 Speaker 1: We have 10 minutes. 728 00:30:48,240 --> 00:30:49,620 Speaker 1: I'm just putting it on my computer. 729 00:30:49,730 --> 00:30:50,100 Speaker 1: I think. 730 00:30:50,680 --> 00:30:52,800 Speaker 4: I mean, yeah, that would be good timing for me. 731 00:30:53,360 --> 00:30:53,460 Speaker 4: Yeah. 732 00:30:54,020 --> 00:30:54,180 Speaker 4: All right. 733 00:30:54,530 --> 00:30:58,820 Speaker 1: So should we move on to hot takes? 734 00:30:59,560 --> 00:31:00,280 Speaker 3: Unpopular opinions, 735 00:31:00,480 --> 00:31:01,220 Speaker 1: I guess we call them here. 736 00:31:02,580 --> 00:31:03,680 Speaker 1: Does anyone want to go first? 737 00:31:04,200 --> 00:31:06,540 Speaker 1: I can go if you guys don't have one. 738 00:31:07,000 --> 00:31:27,740 Speaker 1: Yeah, LMs are here. We have to accept it. And we are in for a very bumpy ride. If you don't invest your time in how to use LMs, and particularly agents, I think you are going to be out of a job in four or five years if you're employed at the moment. 739 00:31:28,280 --> 00:31:28,960 Speaker 3: That's scary. 740 00:31:29,640 --> 00:31:30,620 Speaker 3: Yeah, absolutely. 741 00:31:31,400 --> 00:31:32,020 Speaker 3: Why 742 00:31:32,020 --> 00:31:40,660 Speaker 1: would anyone hire someone that can output 50 points of something and then another person can output 400? 743 00:31:40,900 --> 00:31:41,120 Speaker 1: Like, 744 00:31:41,220 --> 00:31:41,840 Speaker 2: why? 745 00:31:42,140 --> 00:31:49,040 Speaker 2: There's a lot of legacy enterprises that are building these huge enterprise systems for the military. 746 00:31:49,500 --> 00:31:54,100 Speaker 2: And there's going to be a long time before they change that culture. 747 00:31:55,040 --> 00:31:56,040 Speaker 2: I mean, yeah, sure. 748 00:31:56,320 --> 00:32:01,600 Speaker 1: Like that, that, that is true. Like if, if you work in an enterprise company, that's like, 749 00:32:02,070 --> 00:32:05,540 Speaker 1: that probably today isn't even using modern tooling, right. That's, 750 00:32:05,800 --> 00:32:05,940 Speaker 3: it's, 751 00:32:06,220 --> 00:32:06,540 Speaker 1: it's going to 752 00:32:06,700 --> 00:32:12,700 Speaker 1: take them a while to, to adjust. But if you're in like a, more of a high velocity, uh, company, 753 00:32:13,040 --> 00:32:13,740 Speaker 1: like, uh, any 754 00:32:13,740 --> 00:32:14,100 Speaker 3: startup, 755 00:32:14,530 --> 00:32:18,240 Speaker 1: any, um, then, then you're, you're, you're going to be toast. 756 00:32:18,820 --> 00:32:19,440 Speaker 4: And I think if 757 00:32:19,440 --> 00:32:22,640 Speaker 1: you're, if you're starting out as a developer, you definitely need to, 758 00:32:22,900 --> 00:32:23,220 Speaker 1: to like 759 00:32:23,220 --> 00:32:29,500 Speaker 4: understand i think it's going to get worse because of it too like startup culture is going to 760 00:32:29,600 --> 00:32:37,980 Speaker 4: be even more like because you can use ai it's not like you can lay back and rest on your laurels you 761 00:32:38,040 --> 00:32:38,880 Speaker 4: just got to keep using 762 00:32:38,880 --> 00:32:40,280 Speaker 1: the right yeah you 763 00:32:40,280 --> 00:32:41,560 Speaker 4: did like so 764 00:32:41,560 --> 00:32:42,060 Speaker 1: it's 765 00:32:42,060 --> 00:32:43,300 Speaker 4: gonna make it worse i think 766 00:32:43,300 --> 00:32:44,820 Speaker 1: yeah i mean it 767 00:32:45,020 --> 00:32:50,759 Speaker 1: could also lead to more jobs right because like the the cost of building something goes down so 768 00:32:50,780 --> 00:32:53,100 Speaker 1: people can build more stuff i mean that's historically what 769 00:32:53,100 --> 00:32:54,220 Speaker 2: has always happened when 770 00:32:54,260 --> 00:32:54,380 Speaker 2: new 771 00:32:54,380 --> 00:32:54,740 Speaker 1: technology 772 00:32:54,740 --> 00:32:58,200 Speaker 2: came around we were all doomers and then it was actually more 773 00:32:58,200 --> 00:32:59,800 Speaker 3: jobs uh we got more 774 00:33:00,080 --> 00:33:00,740 Speaker 3: lawyers removes 775 00:33:00,740 --> 00:33:03,300 Speaker 2: uh the need for librarians the 776 00:33:03,300 --> 00:33:04,240 Speaker 4: uh interest rates 777 00:33:04,240 --> 00:33:04,540 Speaker 2: have 778 00:33:04,540 --> 00:33:05,860 Speaker 4: to go down and money has to 779 00:33:05,860 --> 00:33:08,500 Speaker 4: be free again for ah so 780 00:33:08,500 --> 00:33:09,980 Speaker 1: they have to be able to borrow 781 00:33:09,980 --> 00:33:11,780 Speaker 4: money for free again and then there will 782 00:33:11,780 --> 00:33:12,400 Speaker 4: be more jobs 783 00:33:12,400 --> 00:33:16,860 Speaker 1: yeah we'll see what happens but that's my unpopular opinion i 784 00:33:16,860 --> 00:33:18,000 Speaker 4: think i think that's a 785 00:33:17,960 --> 00:33:23,900 Speaker 4: pretty like safe unpopular opinion because I think we all kind of agreed with that but yeah 786 00:33:23,900 --> 00:33:24,260 Speaker 2: I do 787 00:33:24,320 --> 00:33:29,400 Speaker 2: think I do think that the that if you're sitting here listening to us then you are in a perfect 788 00:33:29,560 --> 00:33:32,300 Speaker 2: position to capitalize on this because there's going to 789 00:33:32,300 --> 00:33:34,580 Speaker 3: be a lot of new developers 790 00:33:34,580 --> 00:33:35,300 Speaker 2: coming in 791 00:33:35,700 --> 00:33:44,079 Speaker 2: who are like fully dependent on AI and they will not be able to to do the last 20 but because you 792 00:33:44,100 --> 00:33:51,060 Speaker 2: have written code before you can do the combination of your own skill set and I think that's 793 00:33:51,990 --> 00:33:52,280 Speaker 4: going to be. 794 00:33:52,280 --> 00:33:56,920 Speaker 4: And another thing we didn't mention in this, if you haven't heard of the Svelte MCP server 795 00:33:57,230 --> 00:34:01,000 Speaker 4: and you are using AI, make sure that you go and you look that up. 796 00:34:01,800 --> 00:34:06,180 Speaker 4: Someone just told me about it a couple of weeks ago and I integrated it into Cloud and 797 00:34:06,250 --> 00:34:08,139 Speaker 4: it just, it really helps. 798 00:34:08,139 --> 00:34:13,320 Speaker 4: It like puts the documentation right in the AI agent and makes them write better Svelte 799 00:34:13,460 --> 00:34:13,620 Speaker 4: code. 800 00:34:13,860 --> 00:34:15,580 Speaker 4: So make sure that you're doing that. 801 00:34:16,480 --> 00:34:18,560 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's great using it all the time. 802 00:34:18,899 --> 00:34:19,780 Speaker 1: Well, I'm not, but 803 00:34:19,780 --> 00:34:22,960 Speaker 4: my 804 00:34:22,960 --> 00:34:23,580 Speaker 1: agents are. 805 00:34:24,000 --> 00:34:31,440 Speaker 1: Like, I had 10, no, nine parallel agents working on, like, tickets for this gym tracking app. 806 00:34:31,860 --> 00:34:32,260 Speaker 1: Like, that's 807 00:34:32,260 --> 00:34:32,840 Speaker 4: crazy. 808 00:34:33,100 --> 00:34:33,940 Speaker 1: Like, just like. 809 00:34:34,320 --> 00:34:35,240 Speaker 4: Do you have these 810 00:34:35,240 --> 00:34:36,220 Speaker 1: integrated 811 00:34:36,220 --> 00:34:37,000 Speaker 4: in yours? 812 00:34:37,320 --> 00:34:37,440 Speaker 1: Yes. 813 00:34:38,140 --> 00:34:38,620 Speaker 1: Yeah, 814 00:34:39,139 --> 00:34:40,600 Speaker 4: that's another one that I've got. 815 00:34:40,919 --> 00:34:45,060 Speaker 4: And it's great with context switching and making sure that you don't get the amnesia. 816 00:34:45,679 --> 00:34:46,360 Speaker 4: I think we've talked 817 00:34:46,360 --> 00:34:46,740 Speaker 1: about that. 818 00:34:47,190 --> 00:34:51,260 Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm going to stop with the AI LLM doomerism. 819 00:34:51,480 --> 00:34:51,600 Speaker 1: Sorry. 820 00:34:53,120 --> 00:34:57,760 Speaker 4: Well, in light of today's episode, and since we've been talking about AI so much, I asked 821 00:34:57,980 --> 00:35:00,180 Speaker 4: Claude to give me a hot tech take. 822 00:35:00,510 --> 00:35:00,680 Speaker 4: And 823 00:35:00,680 --> 00:35:01,740 Speaker 3: Claude says, 824 00:35:01,820 --> 00:35:06,480 Speaker 4: TypeScript's right system has become its own form of technical debt. 825 00:35:06,940 --> 00:35:07,120 Speaker 4: And 826 00:35:07,120 --> 00:35:08,560 Speaker 3: I actually agree 827 00:35:08,560 --> 00:35:08,980 Speaker 4: with that. 828 00:35:08,980 --> 00:35:09,720 Speaker 4: I like that. 829 00:35:10,420 --> 00:35:11,760 Speaker 3: I think it is. 830 00:35:11,930 --> 00:35:20,800 Speaker 4: I think creating all of these types and like we have it all the time in our code base where something is strictly typed and it's required. 831 00:35:21,200 --> 00:35:26,220 Speaker 4: And then you get this new form of data where that piece is not required anymore. 832 00:35:26,450 --> 00:35:32,680 Speaker 4: And then you have to go back and you have to like look at your types again. Like, is this type right? And I don't know. It's like its own form. 833 00:35:33,260 --> 00:35:38,520 Speaker 4: It really is its own form of technical debt. Like it's just another thing to like take care of and look at 834 00:35:38,520 --> 00:35:39,620 Speaker 1: and organize. 835 00:35:39,700 --> 00:35:42,040 Speaker 1: I mean, it comes with upsides, right? 836 00:35:42,460 --> 00:35:43,520 Speaker 1: But it is boilerplate. 837 00:35:43,780 --> 00:35:44,280 Speaker 1: Or like, 838 00:35:44,440 --> 00:35:45,280 Speaker 4: it does 839 00:35:45,280 --> 00:35:46,500 Speaker 1: make you have to write more code. 840 00:35:47,020 --> 00:35:47,120 Speaker 1: Definitely. 841 00:35:47,560 --> 00:35:51,280 Speaker 4: What I wish is that, I mean, we have the API side. 842 00:35:51,520 --> 00:35:54,960 Speaker 4: Why can the API not just give me its typing? 843 00:35:55,460 --> 00:35:57,320 Speaker 4: There are 844 00:35:57,320 --> 00:35:58,240 Speaker 1: solutions for that. 845 00:35:58,500 --> 00:35:59,500 Speaker 4: I'm sure there are. 846 00:36:00,120 --> 00:36:04,080 Speaker 1: At the place where I used to consult, like last year, we used to do that. 847 00:36:04,220 --> 00:36:08,800 Speaker 1: Like we had a.NET backend and then we generated a TypeScript client from that. 848 00:36:09,100 --> 00:36:10,240 Speaker 3: but there 849 00:36:10,240 --> 00:36:14,120 Speaker 1: were there were some issues because some something about nullables not 850 00:36:14,120 --> 00:36:14,620 Speaker 3: being a 851 00:36:14,620 --> 00:36:15,220 Speaker 1: thing of 852 00:36:15,240 --> 00:36:20,500 Speaker 1: course and then it just became a pain so you had to like use uh i don't remember what it's called 853 00:36:20,500 --> 00:36:23,080 Speaker 1: in typescript but you know the the exclamation mark at the end 854 00:36:23,080 --> 00:36:23,980 Speaker 2: to 855 00:36:23,980 --> 00:36:24,380 Speaker 4: like say 856 00:36:24,380 --> 00:36:25,260 Speaker 1: i i know 857 00:36:25,260 --> 00:36:26,360 Speaker 4: no it's basically 858 00:36:26,520 --> 00:36:28,660 Speaker 1: like i i know that this is basically 859 00:36:28,660 --> 00:36:30,240 Speaker 4: oh okay it's 860 00:36:30,240 --> 00:36:30,560 Speaker 1: painful 861 00:36:30,560 --> 00:36:31,880 Speaker 4: but it's 862 00:36:31,880 --> 00:36:32,519 Speaker 1: better than nothing 863 00:36:34,360 --> 00:36:40,040 Speaker 4: it's better than js doc in my opinion i do like that js docs are like in the code and you don't 864 00:36:40,180 --> 00:36:46,780 Speaker 4: have to compile it and build it and all that but i yeah i can't write it it's ugly 865 00:36:48,660 --> 00:36:52,120 Speaker 1: good thing you don't have to write write it so much exactly i should 866 00:36:55,180 --> 00:36:58,160 Speaker 4: if you're going back through it i don't like that it's well 867 00:36:58,160 --> 00:36:59,260 Speaker 2: actually does 868 00:36:59,260 --> 00:37:00,519 Speaker 4: the same thing but 869 00:37:00,540 --> 00:37:06,640 Speaker 2: Are you still working on a library primary? Because like library types are usually way more gnarly than application types. 870 00:37:07,140 --> 00:37:17,100 Speaker 4: So I own the design system piece, but most of that is done at this point and it's just maintenance and I'm more working on the feature side of the front end now. 871 00:37:17,540 --> 00:37:18,540 Speaker 2: I see. Okay. 872 00:37:20,440 --> 00:37:23,040 Speaker 2: So I also have a hot take that's not about all that. 873 00:37:24,520 --> 00:37:26,440 Speaker 2: More screen real estate is better. 874 00:37:26,820 --> 00:37:36,840 Speaker 2: It feels to me like whenever I see someone talk about their desktop setup or what to do, they're all like, I just work on my MacBook with like nine inch screen and it's perfect. 875 00:37:36,930 --> 00:37:38,800 Speaker 2: And if you have more than that, you're stupid. 876 00:37:40,240 --> 00:37:42,340 Speaker 2: And I just love my huge screens. 877 00:37:42,590 --> 00:37:43,460 Speaker 2: I love that I can have 878 00:37:43,460 --> 00:37:44,700 Speaker 3: four size 879 00:37:44,700 --> 00:37:48,540 Speaker 2: windows open and that I can look at my browser and my terminal. 880 00:37:49,010 --> 00:37:50,000 Speaker 2: I look at my editor. 881 00:37:50,640 --> 00:37:52,460 Speaker 2: I can even look at the console at the same time. 882 00:37:53,020 --> 00:37:56,720 Speaker 2: And I will hurt my neck because I look in 883 00:37:56,720 --> 00:37:58,460 Speaker 3: this curved 884 00:37:58,460 --> 00:38:01,240 Speaker 2: 180 degrees. 885 00:38:03,000 --> 00:38:04,860 Speaker 2: But that's a future Jeb's problem. 886 00:38:05,380 --> 00:38:06,800 Speaker 2: And I can't deal with him right now. 887 00:38:07,860 --> 00:38:09,120 Speaker 2: Yeah, you have work to do, right? 888 00:38:09,520 --> 00:38:10,200 Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly. 889 00:38:11,580 --> 00:38:12,780 Speaker 2: I can have pain when I get old. 890 00:38:14,240 --> 00:38:18,360 Speaker 2: So I'm just saying, I have two ultra-wide curved monitors 891 00:38:18,640 --> 00:38:19,100 Speaker 2: next to each other. 892 00:38:19,220 --> 00:38:19,980 Speaker 2: And it's fantastic. 893 00:38:20,380 --> 00:38:20,500 Speaker 2: I 894 00:38:20,500 --> 00:38:20,840 Speaker 1: love it. 895 00:38:20,940 --> 00:38:21,880 Speaker 1: Two ultra-wides? 896 00:38:22,120 --> 00:38:22,960 Speaker 4: Oh my God. 897 00:38:24,070 --> 00:38:25,840 Speaker 3: You have to take a picture 898 00:38:25,840 --> 00:38:26,200 Speaker 1: of this. 899 00:38:26,700 --> 00:38:26,840 Speaker 1: Right. 900 00:38:27,260 --> 00:38:28,440 Speaker 4: I used to be you. 901 00:38:28,750 --> 00:38:35,280 Speaker 4: I used to, so I had two 36, 32 inch monitors adjacent to each other and like on these movable 902 00:38:35,500 --> 00:38:37,700 Speaker 4: things so I could move them and had that. 903 00:38:37,700 --> 00:38:41,840 Speaker 4: And sometimes I would even put my Mac book next to it and use it as a screen. 904 00:38:42,480 --> 00:38:45,400 Speaker 4: But I think I've become the opposite now. 905 00:38:45,470 --> 00:38:49,400 Speaker 4: And I don't know if that's part of the thing of where I'm just like focused and doing my 906 00:38:49,580 --> 00:38:49,680 Speaker 4: work. 907 00:38:49,900 --> 00:38:55,220 Speaker 4: And so I use the three finger swipe on MacBooks to swipe between full screen. 908 00:38:55,500 --> 00:38:58,980 Speaker 4: So I have one of my browser, one of my code, and I just swipe back and forth. 909 00:38:59,120 --> 00:39:00,640 Speaker 4: And that's all I need. 910 00:39:00,980 --> 00:39:02,120 Speaker 3: And it's kind of focused 911 00:39:02,120 --> 00:39:02,600 Speaker 4: for me. 912 00:39:02,720 --> 00:39:06,780 Speaker 4: And I think I'm I think I may have always had ADHD that's undiagnosed. 913 00:39:07,420 --> 00:39:16,360 Speaker 4: And as I get older and the kids get older, it's becoming worse, which is why, like, the thoughts just fly out of my head like they did earlier. 914 00:39:16,660 --> 00:39:18,960 Speaker 4: Like I have I can't remember anything anymore. 915 00:39:19,900 --> 00:39:21,520 Speaker 4: and I need 916 00:39:21,610 --> 00:39:22,440 Speaker 4: like that little 917 00:39:22,980 --> 00:39:23,920 Speaker 4: I mean it's a 918 00:39:24,030 --> 00:39:25,740 Speaker 1: you need the forced focus 919 00:39:26,600 --> 00:39:27,460 Speaker 1: it's not 9 inches 920 00:39:28,100 --> 00:39:28,500 Speaker 4: like the Switch 921 00:39:28,500 --> 00:39:29,100 Speaker 1: 2 screen 922 00:39:29,720 --> 00:39:31,960 Speaker 4: I get mad playing on the Switch 2 screen 923 00:39:32,280 --> 00:39:34,240 Speaker 4: and the Switch 2 is bigger than the Switch 1 924 00:39:34,500 --> 00:39:35,940 Speaker 4: but the Switch 2 screen is too small 925 00:39:35,950 --> 00:39:37,840 Speaker 4: for me so I get it from that perspective 926 00:39:38,100 --> 00:39:39,580 Speaker 2: at some point I'm going to get VR 927 00:39:40,130 --> 00:39:42,060 Speaker 2: glasses and then I can just have as many 928 00:39:42,240 --> 00:39:43,480 Speaker 2: screens as I want all over it 929 00:39:43,680 --> 00:39:44,720 Speaker 4: Kevin used to do that 930 00:39:45,300 --> 00:39:47,480 Speaker 1: I mean I do have two Apple Vision Pros 931 00:39:47,900 --> 00:39:48,680 Speaker 3: two of them 932 00:39:49,299 --> 00:39:50,960 Speaker 4: What do you need to do? 933 00:39:51,350 --> 00:39:51,800 Speaker 4: Do you have four 934 00:39:51,800 --> 00:39:52,020 Speaker 2: eyes? 935 00:39:52,340 --> 00:39:52,900 Speaker 2: It's an accident. 936 00:39:54,070 --> 00:39:55,480 Speaker 1: With glasses, I have four eyes. 937 00:39:56,980 --> 00:39:57,560 Speaker 2: It's an accident. 938 00:39:57,700 --> 00:39:59,540 Speaker 2: So you just fell over and Abba was in prison. 939 00:39:59,720 --> 00:40:00,180 Speaker 2: No, 940 00:40:00,400 --> 00:40:00,880 Speaker 3: it's 941 00:40:00,880 --> 00:40:01,160 Speaker 2: a 942 00:40:01,160 --> 00:40:01,740 Speaker 1: long story. 943 00:40:02,440 --> 00:40:04,100 Speaker 1: I'll tell you about it sometime. 944 00:40:05,070 --> 00:40:07,160 Speaker 1: But I think we are running out of time here. 945 00:40:07,270 --> 00:40:07,740 Speaker 1: Oh, yeah, we are. 946 00:40:08,980 --> 00:40:11,320 Speaker 1: Brittany, you have to run to get your kid to 947 00:40:11,320 --> 00:40:12,440 Speaker 4: get your trish. 948 00:40:12,440 --> 00:40:12,980 Speaker 4: To a doctor's appointment. 949 00:40:13,280 --> 00:40:13,760 Speaker 4: And then we're 950 00:40:13,760 --> 00:40:14,320 Speaker 1: driving to 951 00:40:14,320 --> 00:40:14,720 Speaker 4: Chicago. 952 00:40:14,970 --> 00:40:15,920 Speaker 4: And then I'm going to Hawaii. 953 00:40:16,820 --> 00:40:17,340 Speaker 1: Oh, wow. 954 00:40:17,340 --> 00:40:18,220 Speaker 1: That sounds awful. 955 00:40:18,900 --> 00:40:20,500 Speaker 1: I wish 956 00:40:20,500 --> 00:40:21,740 Speaker 4: everyone could see how much 957 00:40:22,160 --> 00:40:23,740 Speaker 4: White garbage is outside 958 00:40:23,880 --> 00:40:24,280 Speaker 1: My window 959 00:40:24,280 --> 00:40:25,660 Speaker 4: right now it's so nasty 960 00:40:26,160 --> 00:40:27,680 Speaker 4: I'm so ready to be out of this place 961 00:40:28,120 --> 00:40:28,260 Speaker 1: Yeah 962 00:40:29,300 --> 00:40:30,960 Speaker 1: You have to take some pictures 963 00:40:31,660 --> 00:40:32,420 Speaker 4: Of Hawaii or 964 00:40:33,620 --> 00:40:34,380 Speaker 1: I mean Hawaii 965 00:40:34,940 --> 00:40:36,780 Speaker 2: We've all seen this now do the Hawaii thing 966 00:40:37,100 --> 00:40:39,220 Speaker 4: Okay I will take Hawaii and I will see them 967 00:40:39,540 --> 00:40:41,160 Speaker 1: Alright so we 968 00:40:41,380 --> 00:40:43,040 Speaker 1: Will have to do pics next week I guess 969 00:40:43,480 --> 00:40:45,080 Speaker 1: So with that said 970 00:40:45,400 --> 00:40:47,399 Speaker 1: Thank you all for listening and it's 971 00:40:47,420 --> 00:40:48,700 Speaker 1: Super fun to be doing this again. 972 00:40:49,140 --> 00:40:50,700 Speaker 1: We finally managed to find a time. 973 00:40:51,260 --> 00:40:51,560 Speaker 2: And now 974 00:40:51,560 --> 00:40:51,760 Speaker 3: I 975 00:40:51,760 --> 00:40:53,500 Speaker 1: think we can do this. 976 00:40:54,320 --> 00:40:55,160 Speaker 3: I'm hyping myself 977 00:40:55,160 --> 00:40:55,460 Speaker 2: up. 978 00:40:55,460 --> 00:40:57,040 Speaker 2: I think we're going to do this every week. 979 00:40:57,440 --> 00:40:59,140 Speaker 2: Now that we can build websites, we can also schedule. 980 00:40:59,340 --> 00:41:00,080 Speaker 2: I think it's going to be amazing. 981 00:41:00,660 --> 00:41:02,100 Speaker 1: So I've asked Claude to build 982 00:41:02,100 --> 00:41:02,740 Speaker 5: a website now. 983 00:41:04,640 --> 00:41:05,440 Speaker 5: I hate you. 984 00:41:05,860 --> 00:41:06,700 Speaker 5: I hate you. 985 00:41:08,100 --> 00:41:08,440 Speaker 5: All right. 986 00:41:09,460 --> 00:41:10,020 Speaker 5: Goodbye, everyone. 987 00:41:11,100 --> 00:41:11,380 Speaker 3: See you. 988 00:41:12,100 --> 00:41:12,380 Speaker 5: See you.