The Modern Hotelier #245: How Hotels Can Leverage Assets & Technology in 2026 | with Kunal Shah
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David Millili: Steve, who do we have on the program today? 
Steve Carran: Yeah, David, excited about this conversation today we have on Kunal Shah, the Managing Partner of Travel and Hospitality Practice at ZS. Thank you for joining us, Kunal. How are you doing today? 
Kunal Shah: I'm doing great. Thank you for having me. How are you doing? 
Steve Carran: Good, good, good. 
David Millili: Alright, so we're gonna dive in. We're gonna go through a quick lightning round. We're gonna get to know you better, where you grew up, your career, and then we're gonna dive into some industry topics. Sound good? 
Kunal Shah: Sounds like a plan. 
David Millili: All right. First one, what did you want to be when you were growing up? 
Kunal Shah: Well, you know, every, generally people have nice, you know, I wanted to be a policeman, fireman, soldier, all that stuff, football player. I honestly always wanted to be a businessman, you know, ever since I was a little kid, I was always interested in business. My parents, grandparents, everybody who's been in business their whole life. And so, that's always drawn me, you know, here we are. 
David Millili: All right, so what's something that you wish you were better at? 
Kunal Shah: I wish I was better at golf, which I think most people will say. But I think, I'm kind of as most consultants are, I'm on this never ending journey of feedback. And so I wish I continue to get better and better at taking people's feedback and opinions and just getting better at what I do, whether it's professional or personal. 
David Millili: Alright. What's a luxury you can't live without? 
Kunal Shah: What's a luxury I cannot live without? Let's see. I don't think I can live without a TV, because I am an ardent sports fan. Go Hoosiers for the football and go Patriots for the NFL, and so I don't think I can live without watching sports. 
David Millili: All right. This is a good time for you. Yes. So what's a person, dead or alive that you'd like to take to lunch, and where would you take them? 
Kunal Shah: Going with the sports theme, I think I'd like to have lunch with Tom Brady and ask him a lot of questions about success, about life and, you know, his journey and go one or two steps behind the scenes and, and, and learn more about his mindset and just his experiences overall. And where would I go? I think I'd go to a nice restaurant in Del Mar, right on the beach here in San Diego. 
David Millili: That sounds pretty good. What's a superpower that you wish you had? 
Kunal Shah: Mind reading both professionally as well as it would help a lot with, uh, my conversations with my wife. 
David Millili: Alright, what's something that's on your bucket list?
Kunal Shah: So, for sure, without a doubt, getting in what they call the Centurion Club, which is getting to at least a hundred countries. I'm at about 45 and, um, my goal is to get to a hundred. So, I will get there. So not if, but when.
Steve Carran: Very cool. So Kunal, now we're gonna dive into your background a little bit. What makes you tick? So you did your schooling in Mumbai, in India. Where did you grow up? 
Kunal Shah: I have a sort of, let's just say a diverse growing up story. I was actually born in Boston. My parents used to live here. My dad did his MBA in San Francisco. Worked here for a few years, that's why I'm a diehard Patriot Celtics fan. And then my parents actually moved back to India. And I grew up in Mumbai as you, as you rightly pointed out, did my high school all the way up to high school in in Mumbai, and then I came back for college. I went to Indiana University in Bloomington, hence a big IU Hoosiers sports fan. And then I actually worked at United Airlines for five years and then did my MBA in London.
I moved back to the US and now I'm based in San Diego over the last 10 years. So it's a very long answer to your short question, but it's very hard to explain, you know, where I'm from and things like that. 'cause I've been all over the place. 
Steve Carran: How did growing up, you know, being born in the us, growing up in India, and now living in the us, how did that really shape you into who you are today?
Kunal Shah: I would say it's probably, you know, the biggest factor in my both professional and personal experiences, it has given me a sense of very diverse perspective that I don't think I would've ever had, or just the way I think about anything is so influenced by all the different places I've lived in.
Steve Carran: Gives a lot of perspective having those different.
Kunal Shah: It does, it does. Empathy, I think is really the key. You know, I mean, it just gives you a sense of your ability to understand people and see where they're coming from. 
David Millili: So you touched on that, but we're gonna dive into a little bit more. You got your degree in marketing and operations management at Indiana University, the Kelly School of Business. Then you got your MBA at the London Business School. So take us through, we knew when you were little, you wanted to grow up to be a business person, but what made you decide to go to those schools and focus on those majors? 
Kunal Shah: For my undergrad when I went to Indiana, of course, you know, Kelley School of Business is very well known, prestigious kind of undergrad business school now very prestigious, MBA business school as well. And so, you know, for me that was the very natural extension about a year into college, wanting to, to sort of major in business and go down that path. And, you know, marketing or just let's say the commercial side of the business has always been very, very interesting to me. And you know, that has been my career actually, is just focusing on the commercial side of travel and hospitality. And then out of undergrad I worked at United. And you know, again, to your question earlier about global perspective. I mean, I worked on international revenue management and so I have a lot of exposure, let's just say, on the sort of international side of, of the airline business.
And for me, in the MBA program I was considering, US schools, of course, phenomenal schools here, but London Business School is such a well-known international school. I always joke that it's people are unable to provide a simple answer to the question, where are you from? And I think because everybody comes from so many different backgrounds and so many mixes and things like that, and for me, that sort of international element was key, and so LBS was a natural fit. 
Steve Carran: I wanna talk about the school you went to in Mumbai a little bit. It's called the, the Cathedral of John. Is it Canone School? 
Kunal Shah: Yeah, cathedral well known in Mumbai as Cathedral, but yes, cathedral. 
Steve Carran: Yeah. Okay. It's actually one of the best and one of the most prestigious schools in India. It was founded in 1860. What was that process like? And is that kind of where you really started taking education seriously, or was that kind of put into you a little bit more earlier with your parents? 
Kunal Shah: Cathedral was, I would argue one of the most sort of influencing factors for me growing up. You know, it's beyond just the education, which of course, you know, anybody who's familiar with Indian education system knows it's a very, very sort of difficult education system, you know, up until 10th grade all the way up until 12th grade, very, very tough curriculum and you know, a lot of studying and all that stuff, which is great, and that's kind of what, you know, people recognize. I think the, the piece that people don't see as much is, you know, for us high school in India was a big deal because within the, within the high school we have the, the Harry Potter reference of sort of houses, right. And there is a tremendous amount of leadership skills and competition and, you know, win and dealing with wins and, and dealing with losses and, uh, working as teams and things like that really shaped you.
Steve Carran: You mentioned the houses, you were captain of the Palmer House as well. I was. Right. I was And you were captain of the basketball team, right?
Kunal Shah: Wow. Very impressed. Yes, of both. And, you know, that house captaincy, I think I would say one of those pivotal years in my life where I learned a lot and I developed a lot and I'm grateful for the opportunity. 
Steve Carran: So you're like the coolest kid at one of the most pre pretigious schools in India. Congratulations. 
Kunal Shah: You know what's funny you say that is if any of my friends listen to this, they will chuckle and make a lot of fun of me. So thank you Steve. Thanks for doing that. 
Steve Carran: My pleasure. My pleasure. Well, that was a great discussion. Great to know your background, Kunal. Now we're gonna get into your career how you became one of the partners at ZS.
So you mentioned this earlier, you actually worked for United Airlines in between in going to Indiana and London Business School, you worked your way up to the senior Associate of distribution strategy. What did you learn in those early days working for the airlines that you still take with you today at ZS?
Kunal Shah: Oh, I mean everything because I started in international revenue management, so San Francisco, Sydney, San Francisco, Seoul. I still remember my routes. I still remember my fair classes. I still remember actually many of those fair levels I set in each of those. And so for me, just understanding the fundamentals of the airline industry by doing revenue management, myself, I was a pricing analyst, of course had a counterpart who was the yield manager or inventory manager. So just learning how revenue management works, which is foundational to the commercial engine in an airline is. Such a big factor for what I have now. You know, I look back in, in time and that was such a big influence in everything that came after that.
And then to your point, you know, I moved from revenue management into sales strategy and that was also a big learning for me because that is when I learned a lot about. Both the sales side of airlines, which is complicated corporate sales and you know, let's just say B2B sales, but then also learning a lot about distribution. And you can look at the travel industry today and airlines specifically and not know that distribution is probably one of the hottest topics right now, right? With NDC and everything that's offer orders and all of the big changes that are going on. I really learned the foundations of all of this.
During my time at United, right where I was responsible for, you know, sales and distribution strategy, reporting up to the MD at the time. And so for me that was a very pivotal piece. The other piece I think, which I think is important to recognize is the content was one thing, but the relationships I built.
When I was at United till today, I still have those relationships, some of them are my clients, some of them are my friends. Fun fact, I actually met my wife at United. You know, United has been a very a big part of my journey. And I'm grateful for everything I learned there because that has really positioned me to, again, have true empathy for clients and for the business and actually what makes these businesses tick?
David Millili: So once you got your MBA, you were a consultant for Roland Berger strategy, and then you became a consultant for ZS, what led you and how did you end up at ZS? 
Kunal Shah: I really came to ZS because ZS, you know, in my mind was exactly the area of depth that I was looking to grow and build in, which is on the commercial side of the business.
ZS is very well known on just anything, sales, marketing, you know, anything to do with revenue generation, top line, side of the business. And for me that was a big draw. And I had actually had experience with Zs when I was at United in 2008, 2009 timeframe. So I was familiar with the firm. I had some connections to that. And so to me, the firm was a perfect fit in learning that kind of commercial side of the business and getting into travel and hospitality, which was a, an important growth lever for the firm outside of, you know, some of the core businesses we have. 
Steve Carran: And you've been at ZS for 11 years. You've worked your way up from the consultant to now a partner. Can you tell us a little bit more about what your journey was like at ZS? And kind of what you're focusing now as the partner and leading the travel and hospitality space. 
Kunal Shah: It's exactly as you pointed out, Steve. It's been a sort of journey for me. You know, I joined as a consultant and now I'm a partner and I help lead our travel and hospitality practice. And for me, the journey has been amazing because through this process I've gotten to work with so many amazing travel and hospitality companies in the us uh, you know, a few in Europe. And so for me that experience has been tremendous.
And, you know, I'm excited to be in this position now where we really have a lot of. Backing of the firm to grow our travel and hospitality practice and continue to drive beyond just airlines, hotels, and supplier side of the business. But whether it's in distribution or it's in travel tech or, you know, so many of these other sort of areas that are now emerging as the travel industry continues to sort of expand into, you know, even the definition of what we consider travel is expanding and travel and hospitality is expanding. And so, I'm excited to be on this journey here and we have an amazing team of folks who really are very knowledgeable about so many different specific areas in the industry. And so, excited for what lies ahead. 
David Millili: So as Steve and I were doing, our research, we're not only surprised about how long ZS has been around the amount of offices, amount of employees, verticals that you guys are in, so those who aren't familiar with ZS as a whole and the travel side probably a little bit more. Tell us more about what you guys do. 
Kunal Shah: Yeah, so as you pointed out, you know, we are, you know, 40 plus years we've been around and our founders, Andy Zolner and Papa Sinha, the Z-N-D-A-S-N-Z-S, they were professors at Kellogg, which is where, you know, we still actually have our roots. Our headquarters are still located in Evanston, you know, a couple of miles away from Northwestern. At the core of who we are, we are in unit analytics. First firm, right? We originally, we used to have a tagline, which is, you know, we bring science to sales. And I think that's a very nice way of describing kind of how we think, which is, you know, we bring this sort of analytical mindset to anything we do.
So we really grew and our origins are in that, and until today, that sort of connective tissue continues. So, you know, when I think about Zs, I really think about us as. We are a truly analytics first kind of company. We, we, you know, every, everything starts with the data and numbers and science. We are deep in anything we go into.
So whether it's of course the healthcare side of our business, which is, you know, a large core part of ZS and has been our roots and continues to be obviously one of the biggest drivers of our business, even in travel and hospitality, an area which, let's say over the last decade we've spend a lot of time and continue to invest in our growth.
We are very deep in whatever we get into. So we aren't just a, hey, we're a blanket, travel and hospitality. We get into sales or revenue management or whatever it is in the industry. We really go deep. And so I always think of ourselves as a sort of a depth based firm. And then, you know, we do work outside of commercial, but really at the core of what we do is top line revenue generation for the companies, right?
And so when you triangulate those three things. I feel like that's a nice way of describing, at least how I see what we are doing in travel, right? Whether it's industry depth. Analytics really at the core of what we do and kind of commercial. You tie those three things together and I would say that's kind of, you know, at the core of who we are and what we do, especially in travel.
Steve Carran: So now we're gonna dive into the thought leadership section of the podcast. I can't believe to say this already midway through January. But as we look ahead to 2026, how do you see the year shaping up and what are the brands and operators talking about this year? 
Kunal Shah: Yeah, it's a great question. You know, I think 2026 is gonna be a very interesting year for the travel and hospitality industry, and specifically to hospitality, since that's what we are really focusing on here. I'll just say that, you know, we've had sort of continuous years post COVID on record sort of a DR growth occupancy, of course has bounced back post COVID. Let's just say the mix of business and trip purposes and so on have evolved a little bit, right? The business travel has been kind of different in terms of it how it's come back and leisure travel has been a little bit different, but I think we are at a point. For the first time, I think in the industry, since COVID, where we are seeing sort of, you know, plateauing adr, at least in the US domestically, you know, very high prices. All you have to do is check, uh, right now to, to stay at a hotel or book a flight and, and, you know, the prices are high. And so for the first time, we are seeing some level of sort of plateauing combine that with, you know, let's say higher interest rates coming in. 
And so, you know, when you think about hotel development and that's been slowing down a little bit in terms of just, you know, net unit growth hasn't been as, as strong so. You see that plateauing, you see a DR plateauing, we're already at sort of record occupancies and so on. And so you're at a time in the industry where I think a lot of people are looking for, Hey, how do I continue to grow revenue through the core business?
But also what are some of these other levers I can continue to pull to drive to increase revenue? So, you know, 2026 will be interesting, you know, we'll see how interest rates go, and that'll really determine and influence net unit growth. And that will be a big aspect of hospitality growth. But I think you combine all of these factors and it's gonna make for a year that's different, I think, than the last three post COVID.
So that I think there’s to come back to your original question, I think what people are really, I think people are kind of just watchful for what's to come, right? Because I think there are a few unknowns that will start to pan out here in the next, call it three to six months.
Steve Carran: Yeah. And I kind of have a follow up question from that, since you kind of were talking about hotel numbers. RevPAR has been a little bit stressful in this industry. We're seeing luxury and international travel, you know, super high, but upper, almost mid-scale economy section is, is. Kind of, it kind of stay at kind of flat right now. What are companies doing to help drive more rev power? 
Kunal Shah: It's a great, it's a great question. So actually if you look at any of the last, let's say, earnings calls, right of hospitality companies, the ones that have large international presence, continue to focus a lot more international, like you said, luxury is also a big focus.
And so, you know, when you even folks who are, let's just say deeper in the mid-scale side of the business or in the domestic US mid-scale side of the business even they are talking a lot more about international growth, about growth in luxury and so on. So that is clearly an area of growth for companies and an area of focus.
But I think what companies are doing is a couple of things, right? One is your domestic business is really important. No matter how much you wanna grow internationally, US domestic businesses is really, really important, both from a unit standpoint in terms of like locations in the US as well as point of sale business, because even for luxury, I think for the major luxury chains, regardless of what your international footprint.
I think something like 70 to 80% depending on brand is actually US point of sale business, right? So the money is coming from the US and so this continues to be, uh, you know, a big focus. I think the things that people are really talking about, and at least in my experience, has been, hey, the business that we are getting, how do we shore that out? Right? So how do we avoid, let's say things like just pure revenue leakage, right? So if I'm getting all of this business, how do I capture this demand and not sort of let it leak out, right? The second aspect of the business is, okay, we're capturing what we can and we're getting as much of our share of the pie as we can.
But what else is out there? And you're starting to see some interesting things, you know, by airlines and hotels in terms of the types of things they're starting to dabble into that previously, you know, people didn't do as much of. And so, you know, as I was saying earlier, they're really testing the boundaries of what is considered travel and hospitality.
And it's not just seats and beds. You know, it's a lot more than that now. And so, I think airlines are looking at, or I should say travel companies hotels, airlines are looking at this, you know, A, little bit in a collective way how do I shore up what I'm getting and make sure I'm not leaking this revenue, but B, how do I also look at some of these new revenue streams, whether it be, you know, growing internationally, growing in luxury, things like that. But also just testing the boundaries of what falls within travel. 
David Millili: Yeah. And so to keep on that topic, what do you see are some of the biggest opportunities, you've touched on some of them and challenges for hotels 2026?
Kunal Shah: Yeah. You know, I think if you talk to every hospitality chain, most or the large brands, I'll say everybody is sort of fighting for their piece of the pie, right? No one is sort of satisfied and say, oh yeah, you know, we're, we've got this covered. This year is gonna be, we've mapped it out and, you know, barring any, you know, black swan events where we're sort of you know, we're going to be just fine. Nobody is saying that, right? Everybody is trying to shore up kind of their business. So I think the challenge is going to be. Everyone is gonna fight for that same business. And generally, you know, that leads to potentially lower prices, uh, because you know you're fighting for occupancy and things like that.
I think the other aspect is that we haven't talked about this much, but the consumer or the end traveler is also changing a lot. Right? And I think that is by far the biggest topic. If you open any of the major publications in hospitality, right? You will, you will read about, you know, what people are ex, what the experiences people want and luxury is changing from, uh, you know what, like from wanting more to wanting a lot less and, and, you know, wanting exclusivity.
And this idea of sort of hyper localization. And so consumer preferences are changing and so that is a big factor, which is okay, how do hospitality brands actually evolve? Because just the other day I was reading about this idea around people are tying their trips to experiences much more than just the trip itself.
So how do you now tie yourself to as a brand, tie yourself more to experiences so you're along, you know, you're along for the journey, so that's a next factor. And then of course, you can't get through any conversation without talking about AI. You know, that's changing because of just how we are able to provide these insights, well, how we're able to learn about these preferences from travelers at scale, and then how we are able to curate offerings or whatever it is to them at scale in some sort of personalized way, AI now enables us to do that. And so, you know, you combine all of these pieces and you're looking at a year in which hospitality companies have a lot on their plate, right? Customers are changing, technology is changing, the macroeconomic environment is changing.
And so, you know, the folks that can really blend this all into, you know, the right recipe, you know, are the ones who are going to not only do well in 2026, but I imagine position them well, position themselves well for success beyond as well. 
Steve Carran: Great answer and it really leads us into this next question, you know, in this, in this environment, with those opportunities and challenges that you just mentioned, what advice do you have for commercial teams and how should they rethink not only improving the bottom line, but also help drive that total guest value?
Kunal Shah: Yeah. So, you know, it's a really good question because I think, you know, I don't wanna be naive, right? Because anybody gets here will say, oh, you know, you got a position for the future. You know, we've got a, you know, AI is coming, you know, it's a Gentech and MCP is the big discussion right now in travel.
And so, you know, everybody's always looking at the next shiny thing. I do think it's important to recognize that many commercial teams are focusing right now on the here and now problem versus, Hey, we've gotta solve for what comes ahead. I'm not saying you don't solve for what comes ahead, but I am saying that there are.
You know, real topics and priorities that, that these teams need to focus on here and now. And so I'm no one to give sort of advice and say, Hey, you know, you should do this, you should do that. I can tell you many of them are just focusing on saying, you know, focus, let's drive revenue here and now.
But I will say that this sort of leads to this point around prioritization, right? Because I think it's not either or it's sort of and right? Because I think if you constantly sacrifice the important for the urgent, you know, you run into this sort of issue of, okay, we keep keeping the lights on, but it's kind of hamster on the wheels kind of exhausting, right? Cause you're never positioned for the next thing. And so, you know, I think there are companies out there that are doing a very nice job prioritizing both those things, right? They're got a strategy in mind, they've got a vision of where they're looking to go, and they are taking steps towards that some are missteps, right? And then, but that's part of strategy execution is everything's not going to be perfect. And so, if I were to give any advice, it's really this ability to do both, right? It's this ability to focus on the here and now, but also continue to build this underlying infrastructure that enables you to be successful in 2027, 2028, because that's gonna come upon us quickly and I have a feeling like that's the time in which we're really going to see this. AI investments and all of the messiness that people are getting through right now, you're gonna start to see that come to fruition because all of that dust is gonna settle. And you know, the ones who had made the right investments, the right bets, you know, they're going to be able to yield some value from that at that time.
David Millili: Yeah, absolutely. So hotels are investing, or should be investing heavily in CRM, CDPs, RMSs, and now as you, you brought up AI, so many of them still struggle to see the impact beyond distribution efficiency. And where do you see technology enabling better guest engagement and incremental on property or pre-state even spend?
Kunal Shah: Yeah, this whole point around technology investments is a really good one because if you talk to many commercial or technology leaders, they'll say, you know, our teams were saying we need to invest in a CDP, you know, we need to invest in the, and then as soon as they do, they're like, well, okay, and where's the value? It's like, well, we need more. We need more. 
So the question really in my mind is these investments are important, right? Investing in A CDP is critical at this point. You're investing in, you know, high quality RMS is important at this point, you know, so from a commercial standpoint, there's no question that the technology investments are important. But it's not enough, right? Because I think what you really, what the companies that are doing this well are not just looking at, okay, I've invested in the technology and so now I'm gonna yield the value, right? It's that I'm, okay, I've invested in the technology. How do I connect this technology ecosystem very well and efficiently and effectively, so that actually I'm able to derive that value.
But in the end, I'm also changing the way my business operates. Right? And a very simple question is, you invest in all of this technology is the question I actually talk to my clients about quite often is if you asked every single person in the commercial team that interacts with this technology and so on, how much has their job changed?
Like, how much do they come to work every day and say, what I did five years ago is different from what I'm doing today? Right. And if the answer is, you know, it's give or take the same, just maybe here and there, a little bit here and there, well, that's your answer, right? Because your operating model has to change kind of the way you function has to change and the way you consume this information has to change. And you know, even if you think about what makes for a successful employee in today's ecosystem may not have been what made for a successful employee in an ecosystem five or 10 years ago. And so how do you continue to upscale? How do you continue to hire the right talent? You know, how do you continue to train these folks and keep them, coach them and keep them sort of up to speed so that they can keep deriving this value?
So, you know, I moved your question from technology investments. Much more into the answer is not more tech or less tech, right? You have to keep investing in tech, but the answer is not just tech only, right? It's this ability to then, you know, change the operating model and the people who use it, right, to actually derive the value, which is what I think people sometimes lose sight of they just think, oh, if I invest in this, it's suddenly going to solve all my marketing problems, and that's just not, that's just not reality. 
Steve Carran: Yeah. Agree. Hundred percent true. You mentioned earlier how the customer and the traveler has changed over the past few years, and I saw some research from ZS along from a other, couple other publications about how, um, revenue isn't just coming in from rooms anymore.
It's coming in from other areas, whether that's experiences, food and beverage partnerships, memberships, or other services that are out there. Which, which one of these, I guess other avenues of revenue has the most near term potential to help hotels. 
Kunal Shah: Yeah. So, I think what you're alluding to is we recently wrote, we wrote a report with ski in partnership with Ski on sort of growing beyond the core, right. And this idea that travel companies can grow beyond just what is, you know, the seats and the rooms and so on. And of course, you know, there have been very, to answer your question, there have been some very good use cases. In fact, you know, co-branded loyalty credit cards have been big driver of revenue for travel and hospitality companies, in fact was one of the big free cash flow drivers for travel companies during COVID because people were still spending on their credit card, and that was still generating margin for the businesses. So those have been important levers in existence for a while, but I'd say, you know, now more and more travel companies are testing the boundaries, right?
Actually, a really good example is one. I don't know if you guys read this, but very recently, uh, Delta announced the Sphere lounge. I don't know if you if you've seen this, but this idea that they're opening an airport lounge in the sphere in Las Vegas, and they're saying, well, why does a Delta Airport lounge just have to be in an airport? Why can't a Delta lounge. You know, outside of the airport. So you're starting to see these ideas of people saying, wait, hold on. These boundaries that I'm, I've set in terms of, you know, what I can do, you know, maybe I can test those boundaries. United is another very good example of, you know, all of these interesting investments that they're making in sustainability and sustainable fuel.
Sustainable aviation, fuel staff and things like that Marriott, it was the, actually the webinar we had with Marriott and AWS with Ski where we talked a little bit about how Marriott is connecting what they are doing more broadly with these four or five journeys that they've prioritized, like entertainment and sports and music and so on.
And they're saying, okay, how do we meet the customer where they are across these, these journeys, these customer journeys, and not just, Hey, I provide you the room, but can I be a partner with formula one? You know, can I be a partner with the Cricket Association recently they announced in Asia.
And so things like that where, you know, I think hospitality companies or travel companies in, in general are sort of really expanding how they're thinking about growing, you know, beyond the core. So that I think is gonna be very, very interesting, especially in this environment where we see some, you know, plateauing, RevPar and a DR numbers hospitality companies starting to look more broadly and say, Hey, what else is out there? And how does that fit into our strategy or into our vision of who we wanna be as a company, and as a brand. 
Steve Carran: Absolutely. And kind of a follow-up question to that, for any hoteliers that might be listening, do you have any advice or things that you've seen from maybe a successful launch to maybe a different type of revenue channel to maybe one that's stalled?
Kunal Shah: Yeah, I think, you know, my biggest advice is that hospitality companies are sitting on more assets, right? More monetizable commercial assets than they think, right? And I think some exercise to figure out what those assets might be. I'll give you a very simple example, right? In luxury hospitality, you are seeing, or at least there have been cases now of hotels actually saying, wait, hold on. I'm an ultra luxury hospitality company. I have some of the nicest art on my walls. What if I was able to sell that art on the walls? Right? And so somebody is, you know, perusing the walls in a very nice hotel in Paris and looks to the side and says, wow, this is a really nice piece of art.
Maybe there's something where they can purchase that piece of art. Right? And so there are so suddenly, you know, the walls or the art is an asset, is a commercial commercializable asset, right? And so, and it's not just in luxury. I think there are many, many things that hospitality companies can start to think about in terms of, Hey, what are some of those assets we might be having?
And in the report, you know, we categorize these into the five as, you know, things like attention, you know, you have somebody's attention when they're in a hotel. Can you commercialize attention without being a pain? Right. You know? You don't wanna go overboard either, but like, how do you actually, you know, use attention and, and is that a revenue generation tool?
And so things like that where I think hotels can think about, wait, we do have more of these assets that we could potentially use that fits within our brand. It fits within, you know, the experience we're trying to deliver for the guests, but, you know, generates revenue for the business as well.
David Millili: Absolutely. So for hoteliers management companies, ownership groups that will be listening to this, what advice would you prioritize to drive commercial impact? Within the same next 18 months without overwhelming the property teams. 
Kunal Shah: Yeah, so, you know, I would say that I've talked a lot about, you know, some of the, the bigger, broader things I would say that there, in my experience, I see so many leakage issues and opportunities, right? Which is, we're so focused on demand generation and hey, how are we visible, uh, let's say through AI searches and things like that, right? LLM searches. If I make a, if I search for a nice property on an, on a large language model, like, you know, ChatGPT, or Gemini or whatever.
How does my hotel show up? And so people are focusing, of course, on a lot of these bigger, broader topics, which they should. Right. But the, but the piece that I think is right in front of them that they often miss is things like. How quickly am I responding to my group RFPs, right? Mm-hmm. Because, you know, group RFPs, if you don't respond for a few hours and some of the smaller ones, they're gone.
Right? If you do it a day later or two days later, you might as well not respond, right? Or how, you know, Hey, for my corporate rates, and this is an area we work in quite a bit, but for my B2B rates. Are my rates actually visible to, you know, the corporate traveler on their end? And if they're visible, are they visible correctly? Have they been loaded correctly? Just things like this, like very you know, corporate RFP negotiations, like how long does it take me to actually get those rates in the system and how much friction is there through that process? And there are a lot of basic blocking and tackling things that I think hospitality companies should focus on because this is the perfect time to say.
Well, if I'm getting this revenue anyway, of course I should focus on demand generation and, you know, fill the top of the funnel with more opportunity. But as those opportunities come through the funnel, how do I make sure they don't leak? You know, how do I make sure I respond and I get high win rates and things like that, or if somebody comes to my website, how do I convert them quickly and things like that, right? Like there's ways in which hospitality companies can focus and actually drive real value here and now, while of course setting themselves up for the future as well. So I just think that if I were to give advice, I'd say, you know, you're going to hear all of the things everybody else is doing and you're gonna have this FOMO feeling of, you know, why am I not doing it? And you know, I'm behind the curve. I'm behind but don't forget about what's like right in front of you. And that is some stuff you can tackle with, you know, not that much investment and, you know, the ROI is quite meaningful. 
Steve Carran: Great advice. So I'm gonna ask you for another piece of advice here. What advice would you give to maybe somebody, a younger, a younger person, or a somebody coming up in their career who's looking to be a leader in the hospitality space? 
Kunal Shah: For me, it's advice my mentor at ZS gives me all the time, which is, um, you know, have intellectual curiosity like constantly be asking questions, constantly be trying to learn and like, you know, try to portray yourself as an expert.
Portray yourself as the person who just wants to know more and learn more. Feel like a never ending sort of a, you know, in unsatiable, if that's a word, sponge, uh, that just says, you know, Hey, I'll just keep taking it because I think that just allows you to grow and build so much more over your time as opposed to trying to very quickly become an expert that's trying to convince other people that you're an expert that would be, you know, one piece of advice. And the other piece of advice I'd say is relationships really matter. You know, we are not only entrapment hospitality, of course it matters a lot here, but. So many of my relationships from, you know, I was mentioning this, but my time at United, or my time in business school, or my time at Roland Berger, or even all my time at Zs, those relationships have come back to be very important for me, both in terms of ways they can help me, but also ways in which I can help them.
And I think really, you know, don't burn bridges, you know, don't do things thinking, oh, you know, this will pass and I'll move on and go on. It's a small world and these relationships really matter and it will just help you feel fulfilled professionally, but also personally, you know, it just help you feel good about who you are. And so that would be my advice is, you know, be intellectually curious and, you know, really treat your relationships with the care it deserves good advice. 
Steve Carran: Great advice, great advice. So, Kunal, we've been asking you questions this whole time. This is where we turn the tables and let you ask David and I a question.
Kunal Shah: Okay. What's the best piece of advice anybody has given you guys? 
Steve Carran: David, do you wanna go first? 
David Millili: Yeah. So I think, , we got asked this recently, and so for me, I tell people, I was told by my grandfather's, obviously he's passed away a while ago, but he basically said If you keep your emotions over your intelligence, you'll always be successful.
So he had this over I equals that he kind of taught me when I was very, very young, probably about nine years old, and I've always kind of kept that with me. So do your thing about not burning bridges. For me, it's always been about, okay, let me think this through before I react or before I get too heated or get too excited. So it could be both sides where you're either too upset or too excited. So it's really just emotions over intelligence for me. 
Kunal Shah: I love that you took or he took the advice and made it an equation. He should, if he wasn't a consultant, he would've been pretty good.
David Millili: Yeah. 
Steve Carran: My mine, I learned very early in life. Well, not very early, but you know, younger before teenagers, and it was just always to work hard and be humble. It was something that I grew up in the Midwest kind of just was installed for me at a very young age, so that's kind of always been one of my mantras, keep my head down and always be humble and not get a big head.
So, love it. But those are great questions. Great questions. So we're almost done with Kunal, our producer, Jon has been listening this whole time. He's gonna ask you one more question before we get outta here. 
Kunal Shah: Oh, wow. I didn't expect any of this. Okay. 
Jon Bumhoffer: Yeah. We like to surprise you. 
Kunal Shah: Oh, why not?
Jon Bumhoffer: Yeah. I'm curious, what have you seen lately, specifically on the hotel side, like an initiative that you've seen started that kind of just made you stop and think, oh, this is something different I've ever seen. I love what they're doing. 
Kunal Shah: I don't know if any of you have heard of the Lafayette Hotel here in San Diego.
Jon Bumhoffer: Oh, okay. That's a right segue to go. We just interviewed Steve Slack two weeks ago after they won their Michelin key. 
Kunal Shah: So, of course, as I'm sure you know, they were voted from by Esquire as the number one new hotel on the planet. Right. So of course when I heard the news, I was like, well, I gotta go see this thing, right? And like, what could it be? And I found it to be just really, really interesting. The thing is, when you go there, it's just a whole bunch of like misfitting things, right? It's none of it should work. It should actually be a little bit annoying. But it's not right, but it's the exact opposite, right?
Like you go there and you just love going and it appeals to every demographic. And that's the part I found so interesting is that in this world where we are trying to figure out all of these very, okay, what are the segments and which segment am I gonna go after? And who really is I'm gonna appeal to and I'm gonna make sure every doorknob and you know, every color palette and everything appeals to that one segment, we're like so focused. If you went to the Lafayette and you looked around, you would find the most diverse set of human beings in that place. Right? Everyone from old guy like me to all the, you know, young associates to everybody, right? And so I found that to be a very interesting sort of challenge to the norm, which is do we actually have to force ourselves into these, oh, I'm gonna fit this one segment and I'm gonna go after this. Or can I like actually have an appeal to everybody in a meaningful way? And if you said this theoretically, it'd be like, okay, consultant, you know, nonsense, usual stuff around, you know, just giving us some thought provoking ideas.
But these guys actually did it right? And this hotel. Incredibly successful and it just a joy and a pleasure to visit. And so I actually really think that they are doing something very interesting and cool. And, you know, hospitality companies, if nothing else, should at least look at it and say, what can we learn from it? And are there some learnings we can implement or even take inspiration from 
Jon Bumhoffer: If you haven't listened to the Steve Slack episode, go listen to it. And we have a hotel experience tour. 
Kunal Shah: I genuinely I have not and so I will. 
Jon Bumhoffer: Yeah, check it out. And then we have a hotel experience tour where we did, he gave us a tour of it and it's all video. So if you aren't in San Diego but you still wanna see what the hotel's about, you can go check that out on our YouTube page as well. 
Kunal Shah: Sounds like a plan. 
Jon Bumhoffer: You're preaching to the choir.
David Millili: I think, you know, as an GM and us always, you know, traveling so much, being in hospitality and we tend to, you know, deal a lot with independent hotels.
It was the first hotel, I think maybe any of us have been in where we just, it just didn't, it didn't make sense, like you said, it shouldn't work, but every time you turned or looked, you were just like, wow, this is incredible. And then on top of that, they delivered meaning whether it be drinks or food or the rooms. It wasn't just like, oh, this is kind of cool. And then you were like, eh, well, you know, I overpaid for this drink. Or the dinner was okay. It was just so they delivered on. This, I guess you didn't really know what to expect, but anyway, so it's funny you bring that one up. 
Kunal Shah: Yeah, I think that's a cool, you know, different story.
Steve Carran: Absolutely. And the patty melt at the beginner's diner is one of the best. I mean, I can go on right, I know we can do another episode on this. 
Kunal Shah: I love that like, you know, you're checking in, there's a coffee bar and you know, they serve one drink, one alcoholic drink, which is an espresso martini. Like, very cool, like, just random stuff that they've just peppered across the property, which I think is, you know, thought provoking. 
David Millili: Absolutely. That's amazing. That does it for another episode of The Modern Hotelier Kunal. This is where you can let people find out how they can get in touch with you and find out more about ZS. 
Kunal Shah: Honestly, first of all, before I give you any of those specifics, we work a lot in the hospitality industry. So ask some of your colleagues if you're around about us and I'm, you know, our references for our clients is, you know, what we're most proud of, so please, you know, ask around about us. But if you're looking to contact us directly, you can visit our websites, zs.com and they'll have a contact us form there. You can fill that out. We have a very active LinkedIn page where we post a lot, including a lot on travel and hospitality and other industries. So, you know, feel free to connect with us there and learn more about our firm there as well, and yeah, happy to help in in any way we can. 
David Millili: That does it for another episode of The Modern Hotelier Hospitality's Most Engaged Podcast. Whether you're watching or listening, we appreciate you and hope to be with you again soon. Thanks for joining us Kunal. 
Kunal Shah: Thanks for having me.