Welcome to the We Are More podcast.
My name is Alyssa.
And my name is Bri.
We are two sisters passionate about all things faith and feminism.
We believe that Jesus trusted, respected, and encouraged women to teach and preach His
word.
And apparently that's controversial.
Get comfy.
Stop.
I hate that.
I choked myself.
Good.
Happy coffee time.
Happy coffee time, world.
Happy cough?
Nope.
Happy cough drop time.
Yeah, for me.
Alyssa still has the plague.
I do have the plague.
If any of you have ever had pneumonia, first of all, how do you get pneumonia?
Explain this to me, because the internet basically says, we don't know.
I heard that a small pneumonia demon crawls into your room at night and into your lungs.
Frankly, at this point, I would believe it.
Actually, I had a patient tell me one time if he could have any superpower, it would
be to look at someone and slowly fill their lungs with liquid.
So maybe that happened to you.
Did you perchance call the police?
He gave us all pens for Christmas.
Maybe, maybe call the police.
That's not a good enough Christmas present.
Speaking of Christmas, have you people started purchasing Christmas gifts yet?
Yeah.
Because our mother, she is determined to be done Christmas shopping, I think in the next
like two weeks.
Soon.
She's a woman on a mission.
That overwhelms me.
I get that though, because there's like other things that you want to take care of during
that holiday season.
And Thanksgiving is really late this year.
So you have even less time to shop.
I get the desire to do it.
I don't get the motivation to do it.
Yeah, that's a very different thing.
I think every year I'm like, I'm going to start early.
And I do a little bit, but I'm not as proactive as mom.
I am a procrastinator.
However, the kids a lot of times will go, like during the summer, if you don't know
this, this is great, hot tip.
Hack!
During the summer, a lot of, I don't know, like grocery stores and stuff.
So like Target, Meijer, Walmart, whatever, they will start to get rid of all of their
previous year's toys.
So everything goes on clearance.
It's fantastic.
So if you've got little kids, check around, I want to say like June, July.
I think it was July.
Yeah, like Target had a ton of Melissa and Doug stuff on sale, like good clearance.
And then you just like stick it in the closet and don't forget that you have it.
That's the key.
Because that's a bad time.
Also don't purchase so much that your children get tired of opening presents because I did
that once.
It's not a great time.
But both of your kids have winter birthdays as well.
So you can just kind of spread the love.
It's actually really tough.
All the birthdays are like right in a row.
My husband's birthday is the month before Christmas and then there's Christmas and then
we've got a January birthday and then we've got February birthdays.
So it's just all right in a row.
Don't do that to yourself people.
Spread your children out a little bit.
So today we are going to be talking about something that's been on my mind and on my
heart for a couple of weeks now.
It's on your heart?
It's literally on my heart.
How did it manage that?
It was a little demon.
People are going to stop listening to us.
We're going to be talking about people pleasing today.
We're going to hurt some people's souls a little bit.
Sorry about that.
Sorry.
It's just something that I feel like specifically is forced on women and were conditioned from
a very young age to become very aware of other people's needs around us and not even put
ourselves on the list of who we care about.
There's also a lot of negativity around self-love and self-care because that was a big thing
for a while.
Take time for yourself, but then it seems like you're selfish because you're doing it.
I actually watched this TikTok today and it's this guy.
He actually responds to a lot of Christian podcasts, but he is not himself a Christian.
So it's really interesting.
I sent a couple of them to you.
He has a nice beard.
He does.
He has a lovely beard.
But one of the ones that he was talking about, he was like, okay guys, so this is embarrassing
for me.
I hope you're prepared.
And basically what had happened was several months prior, he recognized that his wife
was just kind of drained.
She was needing a break.
So he bought her a plane ticket to go out to New York to see some shows.
I don't know how much this cost him.
I realize that that's not something everyone can do.
But bought her a plane ticket for like a whole week.
Just go do your thing.
I've got the kids.
They've got three kids.
You know, just-
Karly Three too many.
Love we bring.
And the week before she was supposed to go, absolutely all of the children got sick.
Like puking toddlers.
They've got a puppy.
It's a bad time, right?
So she's feeling guilty.
She's feeling like she should stay.
She should cancel on this trip.
And he's like, no, absolutely not.
You go.
I'll be fine.
Everything will be fine.
So she went.
And he did this video about it.
Hey, look at the fun time she had.
Look what she did for herself.
This is great.
You know, kind of praising her.
And he said that most of the comments that he got were like, you're such an amazing dad.
She owes you a big favor when you get her when she gets home, blah, blah, blah, stuff
like that, you know?
And he's like, guys, this is embarrassing.
The bar is set so low for, in his case, dads.
But you know, we can kind of extrapolate that to men in general that simply a man staying
home with his children and, you know, being a parent is like, oh, she owes you big time.
She actually doesn't.
Like I understand that it's not always possible for parents to step away, that it's nice that
she's able to to take a break.
But let's flip this around and let's say he went on a five day hunting trip or a golf
trip or something.
Absolutely no one is going to get on there and be like, oh, he owes you big time when
he gets back.
You're such a wonderful mom.
It's just incredible that you can do this all by yourself.
No, that would absolutely never happen.
Right.
But because women are raised to be nurturing, to be maternal, to be people pleasing, and
men generally are not raised with that same expectation.
We get crap like that.
I was listening to a podcast and it was this male author of a book about people pleasing
and to promote his book, he made a podcast about it too.
But it was just very interesting hearing that he was a people pleaser.
I'm not saying that men cannot be people pleasers.
I absolutely think that they can, but just the different dynamics.
For women, it is in our DNA.
It's an expectation.
Yes, it's an expectation.
But for him, the way he was describing it was kind of like a bank and you have this
personal bank and every time you do something for someone else, you're giving away a little
bit of love that you have for yourself as well.
So one of his examples was after I go to the gym and all I want to do is take a 30 minute
long steaming hot shower.
But I know that there's other people in the house and I don't want to take up all the
hot water, so I'll just take a slightly less hot shower to accommodate the rest of the
people in the household.
Or I'm not going to take the very last bagel or whatever it is.
Maybe it's just kind of like being a decent human being.
Yeah, I don't know that I would look at that and say, oh, he's a people pleaser.
People pleasing.
Yeah.
I think it's just in general, you should consider the thoughts and feelings of the people around
you to some degree.
But for women, it's pushed so much further.
I'm not going to take the 30 minute hot shower.
I can't go to the gym because someone has to make dinner, get the kids ready for school,
etc, etc, etc.
Your needs and priorities aren't even on your radar.
So I looked up just in general, hey Google AI, what is a people pleaser?
It says it's a pattern of behavior where someone goes out of their way to please others even
at the expense of their own needs.
And I think that's the key is at the expense of your own needs.
It's not just, I'll take a slightly less hot shower.
Well, I think a big highlight of that is the word needs.
As opposed to, you know, when you're talking about, and I don't want to criticize this
man because I don't know anything about him.
But when you're talking about, oh I just want to take a hot shower, that's not necessarily
a need.
You know, if you have the time, if nothing else is necessary in the house and whatever,
okay, yeah, take your hot shower.
But it's not like a need, whereas women are expected to give up their needs.
They're expected to when the toddler comes up and says, I want your lunch instead.
Do give it to them.
I want all of those donut holes.
I want to lick each one.
Every day of my life, okay?
My son will go to Dunkin and he likes the little munchkins.
And we got, because they've got, Dunkin has the, it's not a boo bucket, but like a Halloween
bucket now.
It's surprisingly expensive guys.
Don't buy it.
It's a lot of donuts.
It's just a regular bucket.
It's just a bucket.
It's not super exciting.
No, but we bought it for the kids to share.
And I swear to you, that little boy took a bite or a lick of every single one.
But that's kind of the expectation with parents, with moms, is that, well, he licked every
single one, so I guess I'll be hungry for the rest of the day.
And it's almost like a sense of like a status.
You shouldn't have any time for yourself.
You shouldn't put any effort into yourself or care for yourself in any way because your
husband or your partner and your kids all come before you and you come dead last every
time.
And it's not like, it's okay for you to come last sometimes.
Yeah.
Sometimes you make sacrifices.
Yeah.
But you need to put your priorities and your mental health and your physical health at
the top sometimes.
So some other traits of being a people pleaser.
You're always available to help others.
Always available, again, at the expense of your own needs.
You're going to drop everything to pick up that phone and talk to your coworker because
they were having some drama.
Brianna.
Or, I don't know, any other examples, but I feel that.
And I think so many other women feel that.
You always have to drop everything.
Well, and what's the...
What are you looked at like if you don't?
If you don't pick up that phone when your coworker calls, you're kind of a word that
I shouldn't say on the Christian podcast.
A real witch with a B.
Yeah.
Like, you're a jerk.
You're anti-social.
You're not holding up your part of the deal.
Or even things like, hey, do you want to go out to lunch today and you feel like you can't
say no.
That's another trait of a people pleaser is the inability to say no without an excuse
attached to that.
I just don't want to.
That actually happened to me this weekend.
I got a text from another parent at my daughter's school and it was like, oh, hey, can she come
over and do whatever.
This is not a parent that I know, but they wanted her to come over.
My daughter's very social.
She's not like me, guys.
But I didn't want her to go, not for any particular reason.
Other than that, she's busy a lot and I don't get to see her a ton.
I wanted to spend time with her, but I couldn't just say no because then I'm a jerk.
So I was like, no, we're doing family things and this and that.
Let me explain 45 different things to you because you don't want to be the jerky mom
in line that everybody glares at.
For me, the other day I was at work and this rep came in and she was offering to buy us
crumble cookie.
In a different town was the closest crumble cookie.
So it was a good 10 minute drive, I would say.
She's like, I don't know if I can have it delivered.
I can drive over there though.
Do you want to come with me?
And I was like, uh, uh, uh, uh.
My brain went completely blank.
And to me, I just should have said no because I'm at work.
I can't just get up and go drive to crumble cookie with you.
Super weird.
Yeah.
But she laughed at me.
She's like, you can just say no, I don't want to.
It's okay.
Well, it was very nice of her to make that not like an awkward situation.
And then I just got up and I was like, I gotta go.
I'm the most awkward person.
I can't handle myself.
Another trait is to make plans and take care of details for others.
I think you do that a lot.
Yeah.
I think we've talked about this before, but we go, guys, we go to Disney a lot.
Okay.
I don't know if you know this or if you've been on the podcast or in our lives for any
amount of time, but we are Disney folk.
I think folk is too light of a word.
We are citizens of Disney.
We've lost our dang minds.
Right now we don't have a trip planned for like two years, two and a half years, I think.
And we're all over here just losing our crap.
Just in a deep state of depression.
I mean, I give it another two months before one of us books a trip.
Maybe.
It's just so comforting.
It's just such a happy place.
Anyway.
So whenever we go on the trip, our mom and I are kind of the designated planners.
And it's exhausting.
If you've ever planned a Disney trip, it is complicated.
There's so much that goes into it.
And it's not just like, okay, I'm going to take a week and plan the whole trip and be
done.
It's, okay, this has to happen at 180 days out.
This has to happen at 60 days out.
This has to happen at 30 days out.
Take restaurant reservations until 60 days ahead and you have to wake up at the crack
of dawn to schedule those.
Otherwise you're not going to get those reservations.
And I think the issue with that is I feel like people pleasers feel like they can't
ask for help or asking for, if they do ask for help, they're inconveniencing someone
else.
Well, I think there's an expectation, especially on Christian women, of just handling all of
these things.
That's your job as the woman, as the wife, as the whatever.
You're going to handle this because I don't know, because traditional gender roles, I
guess.
I mean, think about your holidays, right?
When you go over for Thanksgiving or Christmas, I feel like in a lot of families, there's
like one specific person who does not ask for help and takes on all the stress.
And it's not that people aren't offering to help, it's just that they feel like if they
were to ask for help, that would be inconveniencing the other person.
They don't want to do that desperately.
And I think there's two sides to that.
There's the side where other people, when you see someone struggling in that situation,
whether it's planning a holiday, whether it's planning your vacation, whatever it is, to
jump in and say like, hey, I'd like to take some responsibility, please give me something
to do.
But on the flip side also, women out there, even though you haven't been told you can
do this very often, you can and should ask for and demand help.
Especially if you feel like the people around you aren't offering it.
And it's okay to give away some of that control.
Maybe that's it.
Maybe you want to keep that control.
Or maybe you don't trust the people around you.
But you had to teach people how to treat you.
And I think part of that is demanding more.
Well, even with the podcast, so there was a long stretch of time, Bre works full time
and I work part time.
So a lot of times I take on a lot of the editing, the whatever, but I have the plague.
So I've had to hand over pretty much all the social media.
That's why it's a real record.
It's been great.
It's not.
It's been great.
It's not.
I don't have consistent fonts.
It's fine.
But the point is, that's a little tough for me, or the first couple times Bre edited episodes.
This is a joint effort.
Bre and I do this together.
It's our podcast.
But there's a sense of control.
I could do this the way that I want it done, or I could do it better.
Well I know exactly how I want it done.
And so it's hard for me to step back and say, no, Bre knows what she's doing.
She's going to do a good job, all is well.
That's tough for me.
And maybe that's why God has given me the plague.
Maybe.
But maybe for me too.
I've become very relaxed at just, okay, she's got this.
She can handle it.
She'll let me know if she needs help.
But maybe that's God's way of being like, Breanna, step up.
Well I think, and I've talked about this in therapy many times, because of planning
Disney trips and stuff.
My therapist said to me, I remember the first couple times she was like, have you ever just
said no?
Yeah.
I'm not going to plan this.
I'm not going to do this.
If you guys want to get on that ride, you can handle it.
I was like, no.
What do you mean?
Is that allowed?
Are you crazy?
No is a complete sentence.
You can't say no.
But, and that was a little jarring to me, to actually accept this concept of, I can
say, no this is my limit.
I've hit my limit and someone else has to take it from here.
Part of a people pleaser is the inability to set boundaries.
And I think I would also add to that, keep those boundaries.
Because you feel like, if you're a people pleaser, you're probably an empath too.
You feel like you don't want to hurt that other person.
Right.
I don't want to put more on you when I know how hard it is to have so much on me.
Right.
But those boundaries are set up for a reason.
And if that other person respects you or loves you in any way, they'll understand why you
put up those boundaries and they'll respect them.
And I think a huge way to start down that path, a really good way, is to find those
people that you really trust and really believe in.
Like with the podcast, how Brie is one of the people that I trust the most in the world.
Good.
As it should be.
So I can hand that to her, knowing that she's not going to get mad at me for saying, I need
your help, or intentionally screw it up, or anything like that.
And then from there, maybe I can go to a person that I trust a little bit less, because I've
distanced myself from that need for control.
I've distanced myself from that need to people please.
I think for just in general, everybody out there, we talk about this at work a lot, is
situational awareness.
So at your holidays, as they're coming up, rather than constantly going up to that person
who's handling all that stress and saying, what can I do to help, what can I do to help,
what can I do to help.
Instead, just take something on.
And that's part of what love languages too, I know that that's controversial, but one
of mine is acts of service.
And not having to ask for help, that in and of itself shows so much love to me, is when
someone just shows up and takes something off my plate without having to have me ask
for it.
Well, because I think, and again, this was in that TikTok video that I talked about earlier.
He said, my wife didn't leave me a list of here's all the phone numbers for the doctors
and here's what to do if this kid gets sick and here's how to give the medication and
here's what dinners to make and whatever.
He's like, she didn't have to do that because I'm just the other parent and I should know
how to do those things.
But women are expected to, if they give you a job at all, to give you all of the instructions
on how to do that job.
I remember another post, I think it was Ezra Rising, who's on Facebook if you want to
look her up, she's great.
But she said that she went over to a friend's house, they were like, new to the area, trying
to make a friend, whatever.
And the husband, I think the wife was sick or something like that.
They had invited them over for dinner, but the wife was sick and so the husband was like,
no worries, I'll make dinner, whatever.
And she's like, that's great.
Love that for them.
So they get there and all he's done is bought ground beef to make hamburgers.
He's going to grill hamburgers, right?
And she's sick, she's still not feeling well.
He didn't buy buns.
He didn't get, he was like, I thought she was going to get those.
I thought she was going to make the sides.
Honey, where's the grilling tongs?
Honey, where's this?
And by the time that they sat down to eat dinner, which was just burgers at that point,
and they had had to go to the store to get the burger buns, by the time they sat down,
she had gotten up like 12 times to get XYZ.
Because women are expected, even if they give you a job, to still mostly do the job for
you, but then you're going to finish it and get all the credit.
These burgers are fantastic, Carl.
The turkey's amazing.
But I just think it's so interesting because that's what, you know, I know we talk about
things in a gendered way so often.
This is a feminist podcast, guys.
I don't know if you know this.
But it is, it just is so often gendered in that way.
This is not on topic, but I posted on our Instagram and TikTok today because I was in
Barnes and Noble a couple of days ago and there's this board book, essentially a children's
board book, and it says, a man, a can, a plan.
I just thought it was so funny and the table of contents are like, SpaghettiOs, beer, meat.
It was something, the subtitle was like, you can do this.
Yes, it was just ridiculous.
But that is the society that we live in.
We do not expect that a man could make himself dinner without a board book and a can of SpaghettiOs.
We need to expect more.
You're an adult, figure out how to feed yourself or wash your dog or wash your freaking dog.
Another trait of a people pleaser is that they have low self-esteem and I think so many
women out there are taught, hey, if I give you a compliment, just downplay it.
Or if I like your shirt, I can't just say thank you.
I need to tell you, oh, well, I got it on sale or oh, this old thing, it's been sitting
in my closet for 17 years.
Well, I think let's talk about the be humble comment.
Yeah.
There was, I mean, we talked about it last week, but the governor of Arkansas was speaking
out against Kamala Harris and saying, she said, I have kids that keep me humble, but
what is Kamala Harris, what's keeping her humble?
As an insult because she doesn't have any biological children of her own, but she does
have two stepchildren.
And her response was, well, first, I think there's a lot of women out there who for one
are not aspiring to be humble.
I think that's such a powerful quote.
Like it's not that there's anything wrong with humility.
I think that is something that we should have, but just because she's a woman doesn't mean
her number one aspiration in life should be to be humble.
She's a powerful, powerful person.
And again, you don't say this to men.
You don't say, well, what's keeping you humble?
Right.
And if we're going to call that a Christian attribute, because the Bible does absolutely
talk about humility.
If we're going to talk about it as a Christian attribute, then you have to ask men, what's
keeping you humble?
What's keeping you humble?
Drop the mic.
Right.
I mean, like where is your humility?
Because we can't, there's nothing in the Bible, there's no argument that says women should
be humble, but men get off the hook.
Well, I think anytime a woman shows that she has a backbone or is in a position of power
or expects more out of the people around her, she's called a witch with a B.
I mean, absolutely.
I think women have tried to change that narrative.
Yeah.
So they put a boss in front of it.
Right.
But I mean, that's just another sign of how much further we have to go as a society is
just because she is strong doesn't mean that she's a bad person.
Right.
Well, my husband and I have been watching the show Scrubs and this was a show, I mean,
like Bri and I have gone through quite a transformation over the years, okay?
This is a show we always used to like, I always have enjoyed Scrubs and it's funny and I think
it's hard to take today's standards and push them back.
This is a 20 year old show.
Yeah.
But still, I was watching it.
It's a pretty sexist show.
Any of the women in it, it's not that they don't make them strong and powerful, they
absolutely do, but it's almost like in a mocking sense.
Like they're too strong and powerful.
And there's one scene, I think I watched it yesterday, and he was talking about strong,
powerful women and how it's so sexy when women are strong and powerful because we've always
got a downplay.
Right.
If a woman is strong and powerful, we're going to turn it into a sexual thing because then
it's not as intimidating, I guess.
And so the scene shows these three women walking down the hall and they've just, all of them
have kind of taken control of particular situations or whatever.
And it shows them, the men, the three men that are with these three women, and it shows
them as children.
So the fact that these women were strong made the men feel like children.
Which is ridiculous.
And it truly hit me because the fact that I'm strong, the fact that I am independent,
the fact that I can handle situations in no way detracts from my husband also being all
those things.
It doesn't turn him into a child.
It doesn't mean that he has any excuse to not handle his own crap.
And yet you look at all of these things and it's like, oh, well, we love strong women
because it's so sexy, but also it allows us to be children or it makes us into children.
I don't know.
It's such a weird concept.
Yeah, that's very bizarre.
I think anytime you add that extra but, you don't actually believe the previous sentence.
So we love strong women, but, okay, so you don't actually love strong women.
Right.
Ridiculous.
I was reading this blog post about this woman who was claiming to be a people pleaser and
she's like, I need to stop being a passive spectator in my own life.
I really liked that statement because I felt like that so many times and I know everybody
does but when you're a kid, you're like, oh, if I could just get through high school, then
my life is going to begin.
Or if I could just get my license, then I'm going to have freedom and I'm going to have
a great fantastic life.
But as people pleasers, how often are we actually taking control of our own lives?
Not a lot.
How often are you actually doing what you want to do and have goals that you want to
achieve?
Not just your husband's or your family's or your boss's.
What's making your life worth living right now?
And we've talked about that a lot at my work lately, just creating a life for yourself that
you don't have to retire from.
And for me, a lot of that right now is this podcast.
Having something that I get to do that's not just work related that I'm doing on my own
time with you.
And I think what's keeping me going with that too, and I think you're absolutely right,
is doing something that's just for you.
We have to actively take time away from other things to do the podcast.
I calculated it out one time and it essentially equates to a part time job between research,
record, edit, posts on socials, whatever.
And so those hours, that 20 hours a week or whatever it is, has to come from somewhere.
And for a people pleaser, that's difficult because you have to step away and say, okay,
well, I'm going to take an hour right now and Nathan's going to have to watch the kids.
And the kids might not be napping yet or whatever, but it's still okay that I go do this.
And I think it's funny because if any of our family's still listening out there, we'll
see you for the holidays.
No, we see our family all the time.
That's actually quite a problem.
But I don't think anyone in our family would necessarily look at you and I in particular
and say people pleaser because we really don't fit the same mold as a lot of the people that
we love because we are much more outspoken.
We are much less likely to get my husband a plate at dinner time.
This crap is not happening here.
But at the same time, it's one of those things where it's like, who do you compare yourself
to?
If we compare ourselves to very conservative Christian women, we would not be considered
people pleasers, you and I.
But if we compare ourselves to alpha men of the world, we're very clearly people pleasers.
The inability to tell someone else to plan their own dang vacation.
The inability to say no.
Those things I think absolutely lean themselves to people pleasing.
Or just constantly in the back of your mind being like, I should get up and go do this
or go do that or take care of this.
Just constantly on your mind.
You can't just relax and be in the moment or give yourself a break.
You're constantly thinking, oh, I should be doing this.
I think it goes into the story of Mary and Martha too.
There are a lot of stories of Mary and Martha, but-
There's a lot of Mary and Martha's.
There are.
Shocking amount of Mary's.
But in the Bible, we see a really great example of this.
Jesus comes to his friend's house.
So Mary, Martha, and Lazarus are siblings and they're friends of Jesus.
Which how cool to be known in the Bible as a friend of Jesus.
A bestie.
You're not even talking like a disciple or something like that.
A friend.
He's just come into your house to hang.
Yeah, it's super cool.
But anyway, he's at their house and Mary is sitting there listening to Jesus.
Taking it all in.
Learning from her savior.
Martha is running around doing all the crap.
She's getting that charcuterie board.
She's pouring the wine.
And she gets pissed at her sister.
I would.
I would too.
I mean, in that scenario, if I'm walking around trying to get- there's 20 people in my house
and I'm trying to get everything ready for everybody and trying to do all the things
and my sister has her butt sitting on the floor, we're gonna have words.
We're gonna catch some hands.
Is that what the kids say?
I don't think the kids are saying it.
I don't know.
I'm gonna hit you.
And so Martha goes up to Jesus and is like, Jesus, come on.
This is ridiculous.
I need some help here.
Can you tell my dumb sister to stop it?
And Jesus says, no, Mary's doing the right thing here.
The rest of it doesn't matter.
It doesn't matter if everybody's shoes are lined up by the door.
It doesn't matter if the wine is all poured properly.
People can handle it themselves.
None of it matters.
All that matters is sitting here and hearing the words that I'm saying.
Would you just calm down?
Yeah.
And yet, despite that very clear story where not only is Jesus saying that, but he's saying
it to a woman, despite that being in the Bible, the expectation of a Christian woman is to
make sure everybody's shoes are lined up at the front door.
Make sure the glasses are all poured.
Make sure everybody has a perfect plate.
Make sure the pies are lined up just so.
That is the expectation of a perfect Christian wife.
Not to stop and spend time with the people that she loves.
Not to stop and read her Bible.
Not to stop and be in the moment, but to handle all the crap while her husband watches football.
In spite of a very clear biblical command.
So Christian women out there that are told, this is your role, this is your job, Jesus
said it's not.
Jesus said it's not and he said it's okay to expect more of the other people around
you to demand more, to say get your butt up from that couch.
Go make a side dish.
Yeah.
I mean if you want a glass of wine, pour it yourself.
If you want to eat, make your own plate.
It's okay.
Another blog that I was reading, there was a quote from I think this woman's therapist
or something, I don't know, but she said raising a girl to be nice is like sending her out
to the world with one hand tied behind her back.
Isn't that good?
That hurts.
Yeah.
Because nice means not good, not bad, just nice.
That's a quote from Into the Woods.
But it's true.
How often are we teaching our girls, don't be rude to him even if he's making you uncomfortable,
just try to diffuse the situation, be nice.
When you're at work, maybe don't assert yourself as much as you think you should.
Don't stand up for yourself or your other coworkers, just be nice.
Don't make waves.
Yeah.
Don't make waves.
Stay in line.
But you're really doing her a disservice.
And like that other TikTok that we were talking about where Mark Driscoll was saying he did
not raise his daughters to be independent, but he did raise them to be strong.
I don't know how he thinks he's raising them with any kind of strength, but we're teaching
our girls, especially in the conservative Christian world, that they don't hold a lot
of value other than their niceness and their ability to raise children and make Thanksgiving
dinner and whatever.
But how are we raising our boys?
We raise them saying, you're strong.
Everything you do, everything you touch is a turn to gold.
Maybe we don't do that.
No, but I think that's a totally valid point.
We raise boys often, not always.
I think there's a huge turn in society as we look at what toxic masculinity is and how
it affects families.
But oftentimes, particularly in previous generations, we were raising boys saying, if you change
a diaper, it's a favor to your wife.
If you do the dishes, she should throw you a party.
Karly It's like that meme or the GIF, I don't know
the difference between the two honestly, where it's a husband or a dad and he is sitting
on his phone and he's taking his kids for a walk or he took the kids to the park and
he's sitting on his phone and everybody around him is saying, what a great dad.
He took his kids out for whatever activity.
Amazing.
But you see the exact same image, but it's a woman instead of a man.
She's sitting on her phone.
You think, wow, what a terrible mother.
She's not paying attention to her kids.
There's different expectations.
If a man does anything, he's praised.
Well, I think I've talked about this TikTok before, but there's this creator and I think
it's Jimmy on relationships.
Oh, Jimmy.
If you've ever seen him and he does a lot of role playing.
I don't know if he's therapist, he presents himself as a therapist.
I've seen Jimmy.
I've seen his wigs.
I think he's just got the one wig.
Cross-dressing Jimmy.
But he did one where, so he plays both roles.
He plays the female partner and the male partner.
The woman is washing dishes and the man comes out and he's like, hey, where's my cup, my
mug, whatever.
She was like, well, remember how I asked you to help out with the dishes?
You were going to do them half the time.
I was going to do them half the time.
This was not a chore that we decided was mine, but you've never ever done them.
So now I'm going to do my dishes and you're more than welcome to do yours.
And he got all pissy and was like, this is so ridiculous.
It would take you two extra seconds to wash this dish.
This is petty.
You're just trying to be vindictive.
Blah, blah, blah.
Goes on and on and blames her for it.
In this context, I think about that and it's almost cringy as a woman to sit there and
watch another woman.
It's really jimmy, but in theory, another woman be assertive like this.
It's hard to watch that because we're trained not to do it.
Right.
Even if you think, oh, I wasn't trained specifically, but look at the examples around you.
Watch those shows like Scrubs or any other show, Friends, you know, all of them.
It's all around you.
You've been conditioned as mostly a woman to be a people pleaser.
And it's not that I don't absolutely agree with what he's saying in that.
Yeah, she shouldn't.
If this isn't a chore that you've agreed that's hers, then she doesn't have to do it.
You handle your own crap, you're a grown up.
I agree with it, but it makes me uncomfy.
Right.
Because, and my husband would never.
But even so, it makes me feel like, oh, she shouldn't be doing that.
You know, like there's just this ingrained part of me.
Right.
Well, I think you expect more of your partner.
You sought out a partner who met your standards and you expected more.
There are so many times and out there in the dating world, you'll, y'all, y'all know, but
people say, well, just maybe give them a second chance or your standards are just too high.
That has been said to me recently.
Even when I know in my heart of hearts, this is not the kind of person that I want to lower
my standards for, to make exceptions for.
But women tell women to lower your standards.
And we excuse sexist behavior all the time.
Like that blog that I was reading, she was talking about her friend who's a female engineer
and how hard it is as a female engineer in a male dominated industry and how expectations
are different for her.
Her work environment is difficult, but she's like, well, they do the best they can.
Again, we're making excuses constantly.
She's just being nice in a situation that like they don't respect her.
And she says, well, they're doing the best they can.
Right.
I always, I try not to talk about feminism as much in real life.
I have a problem with it because I don't want to just be someone that that's all I talk
about.
But it's really difficult when you do watch shows that are older to not recognize so much
of that stuff.
Once your eyes have been open to it, it's like when you see, when you're looking for
a car and you're like, I'm just looking for Subarus and now all of a sudden all you
see is Subarus all around you.
Yeah.
Because you watch these shows and the women are caricatures.
It's like they're not real people.
You watch Friends, for instance.
I love Friends.
I probably watch Friends twice a year.
But each of the women is a caricature.
They don't have the same depth as a lot of the male characters do.
Or think of the secondary female characters even.
Yeah.
Like Janice.
Janice!
That's her name.
She has one character trait until the end where they kind of try and make her more of
a real person, but one character trait.
Any of the girls that Joey dates, one character trait.
They're single moment characters.
And yet you look at the secondary men and it's not the same.
Right.
There is depth.
There are mustaches.
Or with scrubs, the women are so often painted as just sexual objects.
Yeah.
And it's hard.
It's very hard to watch that.
Even though they're sitting there saying, look, this woman's a doctor.
She's so smart.
She's so great.
Whatever.
And every three seconds she is in a situation where she's making out with some guy or she's
half naked or whatever.
And I don't do that in any way.
I don't say that to slut shame in any way.
But just that that's how the writers are writing her.
Right.
She doesn't get to be any more of a person than that character trait or than that stereotype.
Even though obviously she's so much more than that.
She's a doctor.
She's a, you know, a scholar.
A scholar.
I don't know if I would go quite that far.
Not for scrubs.
So as we approach the 50 minute mark.
Oh hey, there was one more thing I wanted to bring up.
No.
Yes.
We're done.
No.
Goodbye.
No.
So we've talked before about how in church both Brie and I have done a program called
Rooted.
Yeah.
I think a lot of a lot of bigger churches do it.
It's like an intro to small groups.
And I remember in one of the weeks, I forget how many weeks the program is.
I don't know.
But in one of the weeks, everybody goes around and gives two or three character traits of
each person.
So they go around the room and they say, this is the impression that I have of you as a
person.
And it's towards the end.
So you've been with these people for a good bit and you know, whatever.
And I just, this one really sticks out to me.
So we were leading the Rooted group.
Big mistake.
I wouldn't trust you.
It's not even not trust me.
This is a terrible time.
But we are leading the group and both my husband and I were the group leaders.
It was not Nathan.
It was not me.
It was both of us.
And I remember one of the older men in our group.
And what I think, I think he only had one descriptor for me and it was maternal.
Eww.
Yeah.
Now, oh, that makes me uncomfortable.
I know.
I'm like, I'm not your mother.
Get out of here.
It was just such a statement to me.
I see you as nothing more than the woman that brings the snacks.
Which is bizarre to me because if anybody has met Alyssa in person, that is not the
first character trait I would say of you.
Not at all.
I don't even think it would make the top 10.
I don't, when he said it, I was like, have we met?
What?
Which just shows he didn't take the time to listen to you or get to know you at all.
Because if he did, even in the slightest, his top trait would be like a little aggressive.
Well, I think I was typecast.
You're the lovely wife of our leader.
You bring the snacks.
Yep.
I think I would fill his glass with laxatives.
You set out the pencils before everybody sits down, whatever.
Essentially you're the administrator.
Yeah.
That's just so different from my Rooter group because it was all female except for one guy,
but he left out later.
So we were just drinking wine.
That sounds like a much better time.
Having a good time.
Even still though, even still, we dealt with a lot of tough topics because-
Because women push this on women.
Women push this on women.
Women push submission, they push people pleasing, they push all kinds of things onto other women.
Yep.
Yeah.
There you go.
There's that.
How do you stop being a people pleaser though?
I Googled that too.
Don't worry.
I'm ready.
Don't worry.
I'm ready.
I'm Dr. Google.
Practice saying no.
I think-
No!
How was that?
That reminded me of Charlie Brown in the musical.
You know, Kristin Chenoweth.
She plays Sally.
Anyway.
I actually have no idea what you're talking about.
She goes, no!
Just saying no without an excuse.
Just say no.
Now you're not going to run into these situations every day, but give yourself a chance to just
flat out say no.
I don't want to.
Set healthy boundaries and don't break them.
I think that's the hardest thing.
Set those boundaries but actually put them into practice.
It's hard because a lot of times those boundaries are around people that you do love or situations
that you might, you know, it's just hard.
It is hard.
But prioritize yourself and set those boundaries.
Learn assertive communication.
I think something that women do specifically and you'll see it all over TikTok is they
use the word just a lot.
Like when you're sending an email, hey, I just wanted to check in with you.
Yeah.
You just want to try to make it softer, but be more assertive.
Say I am doing this or I need this from you.
I just need this from you.
Delay your response.
Oh, I do this all the time.
But it's mostly an anxiety response, so I'm not sure that's great.
Maybe set a time for yourself.
Something that I do is schedule a text.
Love that.
Did you know that you can do that everybody out there?
Schedule a text to go out at 2.30am.
You're not around your phone.
You don't have to deal with that person responding right away.
But yeah, I think maybe say, you know what?
I need some time to think about that.
Or I don't have a response to that right now, but I'll get back with you by X amount of
time to give yourself room to think, room to ruminate, room to be assertive.
Yeah, absolutely.
Allow time for yourself and don't think that it's being selfish.
And don't let people make fun of you if you just want to buy bubble bath and a candle
and a big, fat bottle of wine.
Just allow time for yourself.
Even if that means like, hey, I just left work and now I immediately have to go home
and feel like I have to get started and make dinner, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
Maybe you take the longer way home.
Maybe you spend time just listening to that podcast that you've been wanting to listen
to called We Are More Podcasts.
Binge it, people.
It's great.
Seven hours just to listen to talking about women.
At this point, we're at 27 hours.
Okay, that's a lot of hours.
I think this would be 28, right?
27 or 28.
We've learned this lesson.
Don't do this to me.
I think it's 28.
Don't use excuses and positive self-talk.
I wanted to talk a little bit about this too.
Think about would you want your daughter to say this to herself or your friend to say
this about herself or go through this situation?
Look yourself in the mirror and stop criticizing yourself.
Look in the mirror and say, I'm beautiful.
I'm smart.
I'm confident.
My boobs look great.
I love there's a Nicola Coughlin quote and she says something about how women like her
don't get represented very often on TV and you think it's about weight because that's
all anyone can focus on with her.
But she's like, women with perfect breasts.
I fell apart.
So she was just in the time like 100 something something and she responded to, she's like,
people need to stop calling me brave for being naked on TV.
What really, the truth is I have a great set of boobs and this was just me showing them
off.
On that note, and also one last thing, prepare yourself for rejection.
That's hard.
Because once you start saying no and once you start being assertive, you are going to
experience some rejection and that's okay.
That is part of life.
Prepare your heart for it.
Ouch.
Yeah.
On that note.
Yep.
So next week, which we're going to be recording soon, so I'll probably still be coughing.
Prepare yourselves.
But we're going to be, next week will be our Halloween episode.
I'm actually not sure it might come out after Halloween.
No, it'll come out on Halloween.
Does it come out?
Oh, we're good.
Look at us.
Yeah, it's a Thursday.
So we are going to be talking about the Salem witch trials.
I'm very excited.
I've been doing some research and we're also going to be talking about the Pendle witch
trials.
I don't know nothing about that.
Which were in England.
So get ready for a little bit of spooky and some fun.
We should have some haunted music.
I'll get right on that.
You could just do that the whole time.
Alright, so we will see you guys for that.
Look forward to it.
We're going to be apparently singing spooky songs.
And also laughing like we're just...
Wow.
That was good, wasn't it?
Alright guys, look forward to that one.
Oh, if you know anybody from...
Just pick a state this time.
Okay.
You know a state!
Texas.
There you go.
Send it to your friends in Texas.
Because they have a good steakhouse there.
Wow.
Also, make sure you follow us on Instagram and TikTok.
On TikTok we are we.r.more4.
And Bree's been posting some really fun stuff over there.
I did post a picture of a manikina plant.
So go check that out.
And we'll see you next week.
Byeeeeeeee!