1 00:00:05,040 --> 00:00:08,795 Welcome to Working Towards Our Purpose, a podcast that 2 00:00:08,795 --> 00:00:12,635 offers a different perspective on what a job can be. For everyone 3 00:00:12,635 --> 00:00:16,430 out there that's heard that voice in the back of their head asking for something 4 00:00:16,430 --> 00:00:20,050 more, it's time to listen to it. I'm your host, Gino, 5 00:00:20,190 --> 00:00:24,029 and join me as I interview people who have decided to work in their own 6 00:00:24,029 --> 00:00:27,535 purpose. Together, we will learn, become inspired, 7 00:00:27,755 --> 00:00:31,135 and hopefully find our own path towards working in our purpose. 8 00:00:34,500 --> 00:00:38,340 Joe George is a songwriter, producer, Emmy nominated film 9 00:00:38,340 --> 00:00:42,180 composer, and he has 2 full length solo albums out. His 3rd on 10 00:00:42,180 --> 00:00:46,004 the way, folk cinema. He He also plays in a band called Intuit 11 00:00:46,004 --> 00:00:49,845 Over It where I found him, and I'm looking forward to getting to know him 12 00:00:49,845 --> 00:00:53,510 a little bit more today. Joe George, thanks for coming on working towards our purpose. 13 00:00:53,510 --> 00:00:56,949 How are you doing today? I'm doing great. Thanks so much for having me on. 14 00:00:56,949 --> 00:01:00,605 It's good to be here. Yeah. Of course. Of course. So, yeah, why don't we 15 00:01:00,605 --> 00:01:04,125 start with, you telling me a little bit about, like, your growing 16 00:01:04,125 --> 00:01:07,940 up and, like, maybe what you wanted to be as a kid and any 17 00:01:08,180 --> 00:01:11,940 schooling or anything like that? Yeah. I haven't 18 00:01:11,940 --> 00:01:14,360 quite grown up yet. But Nice. So, 19 00:01:16,355 --> 00:01:20,135 yeah, I grew up, I grew up in Central Illinois, 20 00:01:20,355 --> 00:01:24,135 Peoria. And the music was always 21 00:01:24,275 --> 00:01:28,060 in the house. Records were always playing. Mom 22 00:01:28,060 --> 00:01:31,500 was always playing music when she was cooking 23 00:01:31,500 --> 00:01:35,215 dinner in in the kitchen, and and, we would often 24 00:01:35,215 --> 00:01:38,655 sing along. And and I come from a big family and all of our aunts 25 00:01:38,655 --> 00:01:42,435 and uncles and cousins and everybody. Music was something that we all 26 00:01:42,920 --> 00:01:46,380 shared in pretty, pretty intensely at points. Like, like, 27 00:01:46,520 --> 00:01:50,354 full on family gathering. Like like 28 00:01:51,935 --> 00:01:55,774 it sounds ridiculous, but that is true. Like like like like, arm 29 00:01:55,774 --> 00:01:59,330 and arm singing along, like locked arms, like singing songs. 30 00:02:00,530 --> 00:02:03,490 So, you know, music was just part of the deal. Like, you had to, you 31 00:02:03,490 --> 00:02:07,125 know, to some degree, be be a performer. But I 32 00:02:07,125 --> 00:02:10,884 knew at a very young age, I wanted to play the guitar, got a guitar 33 00:02:10,884 --> 00:02:14,105 from from Santa Claus at a at a young age, 34 00:02:14,470 --> 00:02:17,930 and just was completely obsessed to play it every day. 35 00:02:18,390 --> 00:02:21,930 And so that was, let's see, maybe, like, 10 or 11 years old. 36 00:02:22,069 --> 00:02:25,685 And then a few years later, it was I I 37 00:02:25,685 --> 00:02:29,525 started, playing out in cafes, coffee shops, and stuff 38 00:02:29,525 --> 00:02:32,665 around town when I was, like 12, 13. 39 00:02:33,300 --> 00:02:36,980 And I was always trying to, like, write my own music as 40 00:02:36,980 --> 00:02:40,739 well. So I was I was playing those songs or little 41 00:02:40,739 --> 00:02:44,205 guitar pieces and stuff. I very quickly realized 42 00:02:44,945 --> 00:02:48,425 the desire to to do 43 00:02:48,425 --> 00:02:51,465 it for a living, I guess, or do it for a 44 00:02:52,345 --> 00:02:55,740 you you know, I remember first having the thought of, like, is 45 00:02:55,740 --> 00:02:59,120 this a thing that I could do, you know, 46 00:02:59,660 --> 00:03:03,435 for, you know, my life. I don't I don't even know if I was 47 00:03:03,435 --> 00:03:06,715 old enough to think of it as a living like, making a living, but, like, 48 00:03:06,715 --> 00:03:10,540 is it something that I could actually just, like, do forever and have that be 49 00:03:10,939 --> 00:03:14,640 what I, you know, how I contribute? So, 50 00:03:14,780 --> 00:03:18,480 yeah, playing nonstop through as a teenager, like, nonstop 51 00:03:19,315 --> 00:03:22,755 at bars and taverns around town and stuff. And and then went to 52 00:03:22,755 --> 00:03:26,215 college, studied studied music more intensely. 53 00:03:26,755 --> 00:03:30,480 And, Yeah. And and so that's kinda like the 54 00:03:30,860 --> 00:03:34,560 the growing years of of of being excited 55 00:03:34,700 --> 00:03:38,345 every day, coming home from school, going straight to the guitar all the 56 00:03:38,345 --> 00:03:42,025 way through, like, that being the the main 57 00:03:42,025 --> 00:03:45,690 driver of of, like, what I what I was whatever, you 58 00:03:45,690 --> 00:03:49,050 know, called to do or or or the thing that I felt like I 59 00:03:49,050 --> 00:03:52,570 was here to do. So, yeah, it happened 60 00:03:52,570 --> 00:03:56,355 early. And, you know, I played it every day since. That that since that's 61 00:03:56,355 --> 00:04:00,194 gone more so beyond just guitar playing and just music in 62 00:04:00,194 --> 00:04:03,340 general, but but I still do play a whole whole lot of 63 00:04:03,640 --> 00:04:07,480 guitar. Nice. Thanks for thanks for sharing all that. Do you do 64 00:04:07,480 --> 00:04:11,240 you have, like, a a first music memory or, like, 65 00:04:11,240 --> 00:04:14,765 maybe a first time you, like, remembered you 66 00:04:14,765 --> 00:04:18,365 wanting to do this forever? Was it, like, a significant thing, or was it just 67 00:04:18,365 --> 00:04:21,940 like a it was always present? Yeah. 68 00:04:22,960 --> 00:04:26,800 The first time so my brother and I are 69 00:04:26,800 --> 00:04:30,425 very close in age, so we grew up, you know, just right 70 00:04:30,425 --> 00:04:34,185 next to each other the whole way. So we we discovered a lot of music 71 00:04:34,185 --> 00:04:37,485 together, like, in the same moments, really. 72 00:04:38,030 --> 00:04:41,710 We we went to the 73 00:04:41,710 --> 00:04:45,470 CD store, which is where we we weren't supposed to go 74 00:04:45,470 --> 00:04:49,185 to just because it was across the the busy the busy street at the end 75 00:04:49,185 --> 00:04:53,025 of the neighborhood. So, like, you know, we the rule for us, you know, 76 00:04:53,025 --> 00:04:56,820 and and safely so, what was was that we could go anywhere in 77 00:04:56,820 --> 00:05:00,600 the neighborhood, ride our bikes, run around, climb any tree, but but we couldn't 78 00:05:01,060 --> 00:05:04,765 cross the the avenue that was where cars are driving 40 79 00:05:04,765 --> 00:05:08,285 or 50 miles an hour. But that's where the CD store 80 00:05:08,285 --> 00:05:11,965 was. So we, you know, we played it safe. We made sure there was no 81 00:05:11,965 --> 00:05:15,410 cars coming. We we were we were, you know, but then we jetted across that 82 00:05:15,410 --> 00:05:19,250 road, and we bought 2 CDs. And so 83 00:05:19,250 --> 00:05:22,975 it was kinda like my brother got Help by the Beatles, and I got A 84 00:05:22,975 --> 00:05:26,595 Hard Day's Night by the Beatles. And we brought those CDs home. 85 00:05:26,895 --> 00:05:30,590 We ripped that plastic off of them, and, and and 86 00:05:30,590 --> 00:05:33,969 we listened to help first. Unbelievable 87 00:05:34,189 --> 00:05:37,865 moment. I mean, just crazy explosions 88 00:05:38,005 --> 00:05:41,765 in the brain of of, like, wow. And then we listened to hard 89 00:05:41,765 --> 00:05:45,530 days night equally just insane. 90 00:05:45,910 --> 00:05:49,750 But it was on help when I've just seen a 91 00:05:49,750 --> 00:05:53,405 face, hit. And that is, I think 92 00:05:53,645 --> 00:05:57,105 oh, man. Track 8, maybe, 93 00:05:57,725 --> 00:06:01,129 on help. And, that's when I heard that 94 00:06:01,129 --> 00:06:04,569 song, I I was, like, I was blown away. And and and that's the first 95 00:06:04,569 --> 00:06:07,765 time that I remember thinking, wow. Somebody's 96 00:06:08,305 --> 00:06:11,765 playing that. Like, somebody's like, that that guitar intro. 97 00:06:11,905 --> 00:06:15,480 Somebody somebody they're they're playing that. It's either it's either George 98 00:06:15,480 --> 00:06:19,320 Harrison or Paul McCartney probably, and they're laying it, like, 99 00:06:19,320 --> 00:06:22,985 into a microphone, and I'm hearing it. You know? And it was like and it 100 00:06:22,985 --> 00:06:26,765 blew me away. Ran into mom and dad's room, asked them for a guitar. 101 00:06:27,145 --> 00:06:30,880 It was past my bedtime. They told me to go to bed. But that that 102 00:06:30,880 --> 00:06:34,639 year, you know, they they got me the guitar as, you know, from 103 00:06:34,639 --> 00:06:38,415 Santa Claus. And, it was and it 104 00:06:38,415 --> 00:06:41,695 was on. It was just so on. So that was the first time that I 105 00:06:41,695 --> 00:06:45,490 thought, like, wow. Somebody playing the guitar way 106 00:06:45,490 --> 00:06:49,169 back then that I'm hearing now. And, so, yeah, that was the 107 00:06:49,169 --> 00:06:52,824 that was that was the moment. Mhmm. Nice. That's that's 108 00:06:52,985 --> 00:06:56,745 it's funny how, like, certain moments are, like, burned into your brain. And I 109 00:06:56,745 --> 00:07:00,044 figured that maybe you had a similar one about your first music experience. 110 00:07:01,259 --> 00:07:04,780 Yeah. I'm gonna try it in there for sure. So yeah. 111 00:07:04,780 --> 00:07:08,219 So, you said you're playing, like, coffee shops and stuff throughout being a 112 00:07:08,219 --> 00:07:11,845 teenager in bars. What did music work 113 00:07:11,845 --> 00:07:15,625 look like for you, like, after college? Because I think that's probably, like, 114 00:07:16,324 --> 00:07:20,169 most people's first, like, interpretation of, like, doing music for a living is, 115 00:07:20,169 --> 00:07:22,810 like, well, how do you make money at? What do you do? Where do you 116 00:07:22,810 --> 00:07:26,490 go from there? So, yeah, just kinda maybe tell me about, like, what it 117 00:07:26,490 --> 00:07:30,195 looked like for you. Yeah. After college, moved 118 00:07:30,815 --> 00:07:33,955 here to Chicago where I still am. And it was, 119 00:07:34,815 --> 00:07:38,600 there's a lot of gigging. And I 120 00:07:39,000 --> 00:07:42,600 thankfully, I was I was in a spot from a young 121 00:07:42,600 --> 00:07:46,220 age to to to do solo gigs. You know, I I could just 122 00:07:46,425 --> 00:07:50,045 play for 3 or 4 hour gigs 123 00:07:50,345 --> 00:07:53,785 singing songs and, you know and so when I moved to 124 00:07:53,785 --> 00:07:57,509 Chicago, it was gig. I would ride my bike around 125 00:07:57,650 --> 00:08:01,490 and and just, like, get 126 00:08:01,490 --> 00:08:05,215 get I would ask each bar owners, managers, restaurant 127 00:08:05,215 --> 00:08:08,974 owner. I mean, I would just take a gig anywhere. And so for a 128 00:08:08,974 --> 00:08:12,600 couple years there, it was like playing 5 129 00:08:12,740 --> 00:08:16,580 to 7 or 8 times a week, and some of them were regular. You 130 00:08:16,580 --> 00:08:20,419 know, it was, like, Wednesday night was a standing gig at this spot. Thursday night 131 00:08:20,419 --> 00:08:23,315 was at this spot. Monday night was at this spot. There would be, like, a 132 00:08:23,315 --> 00:08:26,915 Sunday. You know, in the nicer months, it would be a Sunday 133 00:08:26,915 --> 00:08:30,639 afternoon at a at a farmer's market and then Sunday night at somewhere 134 00:08:30,639 --> 00:08:34,260 else, and it was just nonstop. And so I was just 135 00:08:34,799 --> 00:08:38,585 going around just singing songs, like, nonstop. And at the time, I was in 136 00:08:38,585 --> 00:08:41,425 a band. I was in, like, a a hard rock band too. And so we 137 00:08:41,425 --> 00:08:44,965 would we would play more like proper shows 138 00:08:45,345 --> 00:08:48,900 at, you know, Dumbledore RIP or 139 00:08:48,900 --> 00:08:52,660 Subtronion or the Beat Kitchen or Empty Bottle or Metro 140 00:08:52,660 --> 00:08:56,075 or whatever. And, but, like, the gigging 141 00:08:56,615 --> 00:09:00,135 thing, you know, I separated those worlds a little bit in my brain. It it 142 00:09:00,135 --> 00:09:03,460 was like there's, like, there's a show and there was a gig. And the gig 143 00:09:03,460 --> 00:09:06,760 was like that was like the work. That was like the 144 00:09:07,300 --> 00:09:10,755 you are continuing to to hone. You're 145 00:09:10,755 --> 00:09:14,035 you're continuing to, like, I don't know, just just, 146 00:09:15,235 --> 00:09:18,675 be on the constant, to to use the most 147 00:09:18,675 --> 00:09:22,240 overused word ever, grind, of of, 148 00:09:22,240 --> 00:09:26,080 like, you know, just keep at it, stay at it every every day or every 149 00:09:26,080 --> 00:09:29,705 few days. You know, try to, like, be playing and, like, in front of people 150 00:09:29,705 --> 00:09:33,545 and be performing and be meeting people and stuff. And so, yeah, that 151 00:09:33,545 --> 00:09:37,010 was going on at the time too. It was early early 152 00:09:37,010 --> 00:09:40,770 on in, like, film composing for me, but but a 153 00:09:40,770 --> 00:09:43,830 couple jobs here and there composing for film or episodes 154 00:09:44,665 --> 00:09:47,705 of some TV shows or or films or or, 155 00:09:48,185 --> 00:09:52,025 online, random random kind of stuff, which I had always wanted 156 00:09:52,025 --> 00:09:55,690 to do. And so that time, I was really trying to, like, take 157 00:09:56,310 --> 00:10:00,010 jobs like that as well and get that side of things going. 158 00:10:00,390 --> 00:10:03,965 So, yeah, it was just like, man, those were fun days and very, 159 00:10:04,825 --> 00:10:08,665 kind of like I don't know. They they were very free days, 160 00:10:08,665 --> 00:10:11,965 those those first few years in Chicago. Like, just like 161 00:10:12,970 --> 00:10:16,590 that that feeling when you're early twenties and just like, 162 00:10:16,970 --> 00:10:20,634 you feel like tiny in a big city and it's like, yeah, I don't 163 00:10:20,634 --> 00:10:24,475 know. You know that feeling of just like, oh, man, I there's so much 164 00:10:24,475 --> 00:10:27,595 opportunity. Oh, I could I could do I can do so much, you know, or 165 00:10:27,845 --> 00:10:31,690 and those were I I have fond memories of those of of those 166 00:10:31,690 --> 00:10:34,670 years. Yeah. That's 167 00:10:35,130 --> 00:10:38,625 interesting. It was almost like you're putting in your quote, unquote, 10000 hours 168 00:10:38,625 --> 00:10:42,305 to, like, play and, you know, to be that's what they say. You need to 169 00:10:42,305 --> 00:10:46,065 be an expert, I guess, whatever that means. Cool. 170 00:10:46,065 --> 00:10:49,610 But it it's interesting that you bring up, like, the the early twenties 171 00:10:49,670 --> 00:10:53,430 energy. It's something that I've been thinking a lot about recently because I 172 00:10:53,430 --> 00:10:57,005 interview people who have had different paths than me. And 173 00:10:57,005 --> 00:11:00,845 for me, I went from high school, like, directly to college, 174 00:11:00,845 --> 00:11:04,529 directly to working, and I don't 175 00:11:04,529 --> 00:11:07,910 like to be regretful, but I kind of think, like, I had so much energy 176 00:11:08,050 --> 00:11:11,670 in that time period, but I was so constrained by, like, the work 177 00:11:12,265 --> 00:11:16,045 that I had to be at 40 hours a week. And I, like, 178 00:11:16,105 --> 00:11:19,865 think about, like, what I maybe could have done, I guess, 179 00:11:19,865 --> 00:11:23,130 but also thinking about it in a way of, like, okay. Well, that 180 00:11:23,350 --> 00:11:27,190 that could be something different now. Like, it doesn't only have to be in that 181 00:11:27,190 --> 00:11:30,975 time period of your life. It could also happen now or in 182 00:11:30,975 --> 00:11:34,815 5 years from now, and it doesn't have to be like, oh, 183 00:11:34,815 --> 00:11:38,195 that's gone, and it's too late. Like, you can always kinda 184 00:11:38,480 --> 00:11:42,320 change whatever happened, and and I'm sure that that period of my 185 00:11:42,320 --> 00:11:46,000 life happened for a reason. But, yeah, it's it's interesting, like, how wide open 186 00:11:46,000 --> 00:11:49,035 you are when you're, like, young like that and, like, how many different things you 187 00:11:49,035 --> 00:11:52,394 can do. And how I looked at that part of my life was I needed 188 00:11:52,394 --> 00:11:56,210 to just go do this, get this job, and it's not 189 00:11:56,210 --> 00:11:59,970 necessarily true. That's a really I mean, that's a healthy that's a 190 00:11:59,970 --> 00:12:03,405 healthy mindset to to to say and to realize 191 00:12:03,465 --> 00:12:07,145 rather to, like, that that doesn't have to just be some time period. That's that's 192 00:12:07,145 --> 00:12:10,985 a that's a that's a that's a mindset that we can that we can embrace. 193 00:12:10,985 --> 00:12:14,670 So that's that's great. And I try to as well. You know? 194 00:12:14,810 --> 00:12:18,650 Yeah. Like I said, I haven't grown up fully yet like that. Yeah. And I 195 00:12:18,650 --> 00:12:21,555 think that's good. I I don't wanna grow up either. 196 00:12:22,415 --> 00:12:26,014 Don't think it's fully necessary. So yeah. So you you were getting 197 00:12:26,014 --> 00:12:29,579 into, like, film scoring and your new album, folks, and then what like, 198 00:12:29,579 --> 00:12:33,420 there's a lot of imagery around, like, mixing movies and music. Tell me 199 00:12:33,420 --> 00:12:36,860 about, like, blending those two worlds and what intrigued you about both of 200 00:12:36,860 --> 00:12:40,485 them. Yeah. Oh, man. I mean, film 201 00:12:40,485 --> 00:12:43,705 music has always been, like, so 202 00:12:44,485 --> 00:12:48,270 powerful. And again, me and my brother, like, we, we, we watched a 203 00:12:48,270 --> 00:12:51,330 lot of movies, like, growing up and it was like, we would try to get 204 00:12:51,710 --> 00:12:55,405 all kinds of different movies to watch. And, you know, in that 205 00:12:55,405 --> 00:12:58,125 time too, in the nineties, when, you know, you had to, like, get a hard 206 00:12:58,125 --> 00:13:01,885 copy, get a VHS or, or then a DVD or whatever, but like 207 00:13:01,885 --> 00:13:05,690 that feeling of getting movie, whether you're renting it or borrowing it or 208 00:13:05,690 --> 00:13:09,370 whatever, and the movies we weren't supposed to watch, you know, the rated r movies. 209 00:13:09,370 --> 00:13:13,145 It was like you know, or the horror movies And that we had to, you 210 00:13:13,145 --> 00:13:16,825 know, that we had to sneak. You know? It's like, oh, well, we got, you 211 00:13:16,825 --> 00:13:20,584 know, you know, whatever. True Lies with Arnold Schwarzenegger. Oh, I 212 00:13:20,584 --> 00:13:24,329 completely get it open. We would also comment on the 213 00:13:24,329 --> 00:13:27,930 the music often. We would we we, you know, we would like recognize the 214 00:13:27,930 --> 00:13:31,665 music in in films. I feel like at a pretty young age, and and 215 00:13:31,665 --> 00:13:35,445 that was always something that was, like, that we loved about 216 00:13:35,745 --> 00:13:38,885 the the movies. You know, we'd watch Indiana Jones, and then we'd 217 00:13:39,630 --> 00:13:43,230 run around the house singing that theme, you know, just like it's 218 00:13:43,230 --> 00:13:46,590 such you know, it's it's it's it's such a powerful thing and did 219 00:13:46,590 --> 00:13:50,125 something did something to me at a at a young age. So 220 00:13:50,425 --> 00:13:54,105 when I went to school to study music, I I I knew 221 00:13:54,105 --> 00:13:57,770 that film composing was was gonna be part of the thing. 222 00:13:57,770 --> 00:14:01,530 Like, you know, guitar playing was, like, kind of the main thing, and it 223 00:14:01,530 --> 00:14:05,144 was something that I wanted to get more Just 224 00:14:05,264 --> 00:14:08,785 I I wanted to study more because I I as a kid, I never really 225 00:14:08,785 --> 00:14:12,545 studied it. I just I just learned learned how to play and and 226 00:14:12,625 --> 00:14:15,880 you know? But then, you know, so I wanted to really sink into that and 227 00:14:15,880 --> 00:14:19,560 study the instrument and the theory and everything. And then I also wanted to study 228 00:14:19,560 --> 00:14:23,195 film composition. And studying film composition was, 229 00:14:23,195 --> 00:14:26,875 again, just a mind blowing experience. And doing that starting to do that for the 230 00:14:26,875 --> 00:14:30,590 first time was a yeah. It was just, I 231 00:14:30,590 --> 00:14:33,630 mean, an immediate obsession that I could do that, that I could look at a 232 00:14:33,630 --> 00:14:37,325 picture and write something and get 233 00:14:37,325 --> 00:14:41,005 feedback on it and say, yeah. This character is going through this, and what 234 00:14:41,005 --> 00:14:44,524 they mean is this. And and what is that? How does that 235 00:14:44,524 --> 00:14:48,290 translate to a sound or to a melody or to a the 236 00:14:48,290 --> 00:14:52,089 the right chord or something? Still obsessed with it. Even just talking about it right 237 00:14:52,089 --> 00:14:55,870 now, just like that's the best. And so 238 00:14:56,755 --> 00:15:00,355 it's a tricky thing trying to get work in that 239 00:15:00,355 --> 00:15:04,090 realm because, you know, doing a gig, it's like you can go and like, 240 00:15:04,170 --> 00:15:07,210 hey. Hey. Listen. I can I can sing a song and I can, you know, 241 00:15:07,210 --> 00:15:09,930 you know, can I play in your bar? It's like, oh, yeah. Cool. You're you're, 242 00:15:09,930 --> 00:15:13,290 you know, yeah. You're you're good enough, and I'll pay you $10 and you can 243 00:15:13,290 --> 00:15:16,745 come in the corner and sing songs. I mean, film 244 00:15:16,745 --> 00:15:20,025 work is, like, that's that's a bit trickier. So it was like, how how do 245 00:15:20,025 --> 00:15:23,245 how do you break into that? How do you do that? And it's just like 246 00:15:23,420 --> 00:15:26,540 like a lot of other things, probably in like in a lot of other industries 247 00:15:26,540 --> 00:15:30,220 too. It's just meeting people, presenting yourself in a way, you 248 00:15:30,220 --> 00:15:33,774 know, talking to a director and saying, like, I can, you know, I 249 00:15:33,774 --> 00:15:37,295 can write music for your characters. I I can I can do that, you 250 00:15:37,295 --> 00:15:40,735 know? And and then from there, it was taking a lot of work for 251 00:15:40,735 --> 00:15:44,459 free and and offering that. I don't know if 252 00:15:44,459 --> 00:15:47,820 young people really think like that anymore. You know, that's that's 253 00:15:47,820 --> 00:15:51,135 that's maybe a bit tricky. So I'm I'm I I don't I'm not even sure 254 00:15:51,135 --> 00:15:54,975 if that's advice that that I would give, but that's what I did. 255 00:15:54,975 --> 00:15:58,815 And that's the advice that was given to me. The landscape is always changing, 256 00:15:58,815 --> 00:16:02,290 of course, but just getting a film, getting a 257 00:16:02,290 --> 00:16:05,730 director to to send me their film and say, like, okay. Yeah. Go go for 258 00:16:05,730 --> 00:16:09,545 it. That was the most exciting thing. That was just the most exciting thing. I 259 00:16:09,545 --> 00:16:13,225 just watched the movie. What does it need? What can I do? What's the 260 00:16:13,225 --> 00:16:16,779 best instrumentation? What's the best passion? You know? Making 261 00:16:16,779 --> 00:16:19,820 money didn't even, you know, getting paid didn't even matter. It was just like, this 262 00:16:19,820 --> 00:16:22,240 is gonna be this is gonna be fucking sweet. 263 00:16:23,395 --> 00:16:27,015 But that what that leads to oh, okay. Cool. You accomplished 264 00:16:27,075 --> 00:16:30,595 that with that film. That that was good, and and the director liked it. 265 00:16:30,595 --> 00:16:34,210 And they showed it, and then somebody else saw it, and they loved the 266 00:16:34,210 --> 00:16:37,410 music. And at the premiere, they came up to me and said, you did the 267 00:16:37,410 --> 00:16:40,835 music for that? Yeah. Totally. Oh, I got this film you gotta do or 268 00:16:40,835 --> 00:16:44,675 whatever. That that that it was simple like that, 269 00:16:44,675 --> 00:16:48,350 you know, or or or it seems simple. So, yeah, that's still 270 00:16:48,350 --> 00:16:51,870 going. I mean, I'm always always wanting to take 271 00:16:51,870 --> 00:16:55,709 on scoring to picture work. I just love it. I love it so much. I 272 00:16:55,709 --> 00:16:58,915 love I love horror music big time. 273 00:16:59,535 --> 00:17:02,995 And but I I love all kind of weird, you know, 274 00:17:03,214 --> 00:17:06,900 weird drama music. I love ambient music in film. 275 00:17:06,900 --> 00:17:10,740 I love ambient music in film. I love ambient music in general. Love the 276 00:17:10,740 --> 00:17:14,505 huge orchestral scores, and I love the quietest little single note 277 00:17:14,505 --> 00:17:18,345 on a piano scores as well. It's so cool. And another 278 00:17:18,345 --> 00:17:21,740 reason that it's so cool for me as a composer is that 279 00:17:21,900 --> 00:17:25,660 you learn this other skill of, or I've learned 280 00:17:25,660 --> 00:17:29,340 this other skill of, like, of communication. And if I 281 00:17:29,340 --> 00:17:32,855 can sit here in my studio and write a scene, you know, write the music 282 00:17:32,855 --> 00:17:36,315 for a scene and and and watch it and hear it and think to myself, 283 00:17:36,455 --> 00:17:40,020 oh, man. This is awesome. I'm nailing this. The director 284 00:17:40,020 --> 00:17:43,620 shows up to watch for the first time, and if the director 285 00:17:43,620 --> 00:17:47,380 says, no. It's not working. This is all 286 00:17:47,380 --> 00:17:51,044 wrong. It doesn't matter what I thought. It's wrong. It's 287 00:17:51,205 --> 00:17:55,045 it just is. It's their vision. It's their movie. It's their character. It's 288 00:17:55,045 --> 00:17:58,840 their you know? So that that kind 289 00:17:58,840 --> 00:18:02,620 of skill set to embrace your own 290 00:18:02,919 --> 00:18:06,414 your misses, you know, like, I I missed I missed the mark on that. I've 291 00:18:06,414 --> 00:18:10,015 got to, like, scrap this and restart. And then what I do is 292 00:18:10,015 --> 00:18:13,830 better, and it's a thing that needed to happen. And so 293 00:18:13,830 --> 00:18:17,669 that process of feeling really great about something and having it, not in 294 00:18:17,669 --> 00:18:21,210 like a mean way or anything, but in an honest way, having it be, like, 295 00:18:22,315 --> 00:18:25,755 told no. It's wrong. That's a that's a 296 00:18:25,755 --> 00:18:29,355 humbling and awesome, like, thing to go through. 297 00:18:29,355 --> 00:18:32,880 And and and for me, I I break through to 298 00:18:32,880 --> 00:18:36,420 more creativity and to more honesty, more genuine 299 00:18:36,640 --> 00:18:40,455 composition that way. Yeah. I I 300 00:18:40,455 --> 00:18:44,215 would imagine, you know, you mentioned, like, mindset earlier. That's also, 301 00:18:44,215 --> 00:18:47,950 like, a way of interpreting it, a mindset thing, because you could 302 00:18:47,950 --> 00:18:50,930 be crushed by it and give up or be resentful. 303 00:18:51,870 --> 00:18:55,065 What leads you to, like, take the positive 304 00:18:55,525 --> 00:18:59,285 road instead of the negative one and be like, okay. Completely scrap that even 305 00:18:59,285 --> 00:19:02,850 though I was really pumped about it and start over. Like, I imagine that's 306 00:19:02,850 --> 00:19:06,610 probably a, some sort like, you gotta let yourself be 307 00:19:06,610 --> 00:19:10,370 disappointed a little bit at first, I would imagine. Oh, there's somewhere in there, I 308 00:19:10,370 --> 00:19:14,164 guess. Some part some part of your body has to say, like, look. But wait. 309 00:19:14,164 --> 00:19:17,924 Oh, I really loved that. You know? I don't know 310 00:19:17,924 --> 00:19:20,799 what it is. I think it's like I think it is, 311 00:19:21,840 --> 00:19:25,600 just some kind of, like, what's the word? It's some 312 00:19:25,600 --> 00:19:29,375 kind of, like, acceptance that what you're 313 00:19:29,375 --> 00:19:33,055 doing, you've been doing alone in 314 00:19:33,055 --> 00:19:36,415 your studio for the last, whatever it is, 2, 3 weeks, month, 315 00:19:36,415 --> 00:19:40,159 whatever. And that, you know, you might be 316 00:19:40,159 --> 00:19:43,700 good at what you do. Sure. Then the the scene that you scored 317 00:19:43,919 --> 00:19:47,665 might sound really cool. It might be a good piece of music. It might be 318 00:19:47,665 --> 00:19:50,965 a really, really good piece, you know, 3 minutes 319 00:19:51,505 --> 00:19:55,205 of composition. But having it be right 320 00:19:55,265 --> 00:19:59,049 for the character, which which is a whole which is which is 321 00:19:59,049 --> 00:20:02,409 another multitude. There's many more layers of emotion and 322 00:20:02,409 --> 00:20:05,625 backstory and things that I didn't 323 00:20:05,845 --> 00:20:09,445 quite grasp yet, that the director or the 324 00:20:09,445 --> 00:20:13,145 writer or or whoever's providing this feedback is understanding 325 00:20:13,365 --> 00:20:17,130 fully, then there's this, like I I guess it's I guess 326 00:20:17,130 --> 00:20:20,890 it's there's the you sure disappointment and, like, damn it. I missed I 327 00:20:20,890 --> 00:20:24,225 missed the mark. Yeah. But then there's this excitement 328 00:20:24,284 --> 00:20:27,985 of, oh, well, then these other layers that I'm about to tap into, 329 00:20:28,605 --> 00:20:32,110 there's there's all this discovery waiting to happen. And that's where it's like, 330 00:20:32,110 --> 00:20:35,950 okay, as a creative person, you that creative switch has just gotta 331 00:20:35,950 --> 00:20:39,730 stay on, and you gotta go and dig in and find 332 00:20:39,870 --> 00:20:43,155 that, which ultimately, for me, takes over 333 00:20:43,695 --> 00:20:47,535 any other emotion. It just takes over the emotion of, like, ah, 334 00:20:47,535 --> 00:20:51,310 shit. I I didn't do the thing right. It's like, no. 335 00:20:51,310 --> 00:20:54,990 There's no time for that anymore. Just figure out what is right, and you're gonna 336 00:20:55,070 --> 00:20:57,090 and and then you're gonna love it even more. 337 00:20:58,505 --> 00:21:02,265 Yeah. Yeah. I love that. Yeah. That's that's a super 338 00:21:02,265 --> 00:21:04,845 good way to think about it or healthy way to think about it, I think, 339 00:21:05,590 --> 00:21:09,190 to be inspired by it instead of being, you know, dragged 340 00:21:09,190 --> 00:21:12,970 down. Yeah. Yeah. So, yeah, I did also wanna ask about your studio, 341 00:21:13,270 --> 00:21:16,925 Gentle Bear Studios. Is it the studio that, like, you kind of 342 00:21:16,925 --> 00:21:20,685 built because you're working on so many music projects, or is it 343 00:21:20,685 --> 00:21:24,530 a place where you, like, are seeking active people to come and 344 00:21:24,530 --> 00:21:28,210 record as, like, a producer or engineer? What what does the studio look 345 00:21:28,210 --> 00:21:31,945 like? Yeah. Both. It is this really great space. I 346 00:21:31,945 --> 00:21:35,465 guess you can kinda see nice. Yep. You know, there's a 347 00:21:35,465 --> 00:21:39,065 piano back there. There's a couple pianos in here, and 348 00:21:39,065 --> 00:21:42,669 there's just basically, everything I've got. This is, you 349 00:21:42,669 --> 00:21:46,429 know, right here within reach. I mean, I'm reaching side to side 350 00:21:46,429 --> 00:21:50,144 right now, and I got a Wurlitzer, a synth, and then another synth right 351 00:21:50,144 --> 00:21:53,505 here. And then I've got a midi keyboard right here. I'm at my desk, my 352 00:21:53,505 --> 00:21:57,264 workstation. There's a big TV monitor up on the wall for 353 00:21:57,264 --> 00:22:00,970 film scoring. There's just guitars everywhere and 354 00:22:00,970 --> 00:22:04,809 amps over on this side. And this is a space 355 00:22:04,809 --> 00:22:08,544 to, yes, bring in other art I mean, producing some other artists, 356 00:22:09,004 --> 00:22:12,445 and then I'm working on all of my own stuff as 357 00:22:12,445 --> 00:22:16,260 well. And so this this place of 358 00:22:16,260 --> 00:22:19,700 thinking and discovering, and, 359 00:22:20,820 --> 00:22:24,345 I don't know if you can tell from this, but it's pretty, it's pretty, 360 00:22:24,345 --> 00:22:27,945 like, low lighting. And I every morning, I come 361 00:22:27,945 --> 00:22:31,690 here and pour coffee and turn on a 362 00:22:31,690 --> 00:22:35,529 few lamps, and it's very quiet in here. And then I sit at 363 00:22:35,529 --> 00:22:39,055 the piano and play with no 364 00:22:39,055 --> 00:22:42,815 direction and with no intention other 365 00:22:42,815 --> 00:22:46,540 than just to try to, like, empty out 366 00:22:46,600 --> 00:22:50,440 and fill up with whatever it 367 00:22:50,680 --> 00:22:53,980 whatever happens in that moment. Sometimes it leads to a full on composition. 368 00:22:54,120 --> 00:22:57,825 Sometimes it doesn't lead to anything at all except for just 15 369 00:22:57,825 --> 00:23:01,585 to 20 minutes of peace. And so this space is 370 00:23:01,585 --> 00:23:05,390 just as much a kind of like a a zen think, a place to 371 00:23:05,390 --> 00:23:09,230 think as much as it is a place to make music. And the artists 372 00:23:09,230 --> 00:23:12,924 who come here, to record their stuff, they 373 00:23:12,924 --> 00:23:16,764 feel that too. And when we talk about that, and we, you know, 374 00:23:16,764 --> 00:23:20,544 and we have a cup of tea, and we sit, and we talk about 375 00:23:20,605 --> 00:23:24,429 music, and we talk about the world, and we talk 376 00:23:24,429 --> 00:23:28,270 about all all the the the crazy the the weird things 377 00:23:28,270 --> 00:23:31,775 that we go through as creative people. We discuss all these human 378 00:23:31,775 --> 00:23:35,615 things, and, and and we also make music. You 379 00:23:35,615 --> 00:23:39,215 know, it is a music studio. We do we do chords down on 380 00:23:39,215 --> 00:23:43,059 tape. But, but but there's something that is, 381 00:23:43,299 --> 00:23:47,000 I wanted to set it up in a way that didn't feel like, 382 00:23:47,784 --> 00:23:51,465 okay. You're in here. Here's the record button, and we're on the spot 383 00:23:51,465 --> 00:23:55,065 and the hour you know, and and it's and it's our release, and we're 384 00:23:55,065 --> 00:23:58,870 starting now, so let's go. I didn't wanna do that, and I 385 00:23:59,030 --> 00:24:02,870 you know, growing up and being in studios like that, it was 386 00:24:02,870 --> 00:24:06,684 very exciting, for sure but it was there was also this looming 387 00:24:06,745 --> 00:24:10,585 kind of clock on the wall and stress about what we're 388 00:24:10,585 --> 00:24:14,380 getting done what we're achieving in the whatever, in the 6 hours that 389 00:24:14,380 --> 00:24:17,920 we have booked or or or something like that. And I didn't want to 390 00:24:18,460 --> 00:24:22,065 I didn't wanna present that. I didn't wanna present it in that way. 391 00:24:22,544 --> 00:24:26,304 If somebody feels that way, I I I I don't ultimately have 392 00:24:26,304 --> 00:24:29,105 control over that, obviously, but I didn't wanna present it in that way. I wanted 393 00:24:29,105 --> 00:24:32,530 to present this place as as soft, warm, 394 00:24:32,750 --> 00:24:36,050 inviting, cozy, and a place to 395 00:24:36,430 --> 00:24:40,275 think and explore sound. And some most of the artists that 396 00:24:40,275 --> 00:24:44,115 have come to me that have come to Gentle Bear are looking 397 00:24:44,115 --> 00:24:46,855 for a way to to, like, 398 00:24:47,730 --> 00:24:51,490 they have, you know, a song that they're looking to really open 399 00:24:51,490 --> 00:24:55,190 up and explore and change the way that they have presented it before. 400 00:24:55,365 --> 00:24:58,985 And that's a really that's been a very cool process because we can 401 00:24:59,205 --> 00:25:02,905 try things out. I had the studio set up in a way where every instrument 402 00:25:03,639 --> 00:25:07,480 is within reach and easily inputted into the 403 00:25:07,480 --> 00:25:10,679 system. It's like, if we wanna try this synth, cool. If we wanna try the 404 00:25:10,679 --> 00:25:14,265 piano, if we wanna try the the whatever, everything's kinda right 405 00:25:14,265 --> 00:25:18,105 here, and it's like it's one room. It's not a control room and a live 406 00:25:18,105 --> 00:25:21,600 room situation. So we're in the room together. We're 407 00:25:21,600 --> 00:25:25,120 performing together. We're getting ideas together, and and, 408 00:25:25,520 --> 00:25:29,225 and that's the vibe. Yeah. And I was just looking 409 00:25:29,225 --> 00:25:32,745 at the the website a little bit, and it definitely 410 00:25:32,745 --> 00:25:36,185 presents itself as, like, a different sort of space more like you were saying, more 411 00:25:36,185 --> 00:25:39,039 of a space for, like, thinking and existing 412 00:25:39,980 --> 00:25:43,740 and then, like, making not, like, the opposite of how much can we 413 00:25:43,740 --> 00:25:47,179 get done in a little amount of time to make you the most efficient. Yeah. 414 00:25:47,395 --> 00:25:51,075 So I think that that, like, separates you from, like, other studios out there, and 415 00:25:51,075 --> 00:25:54,835 I think that that's cool to have that identity and to have that, 416 00:25:54,835 --> 00:25:58,450 like, come across because that's, like, a difficult thing to do, like, 417 00:25:58,450 --> 00:26:01,590 as any business, I think, to, like, try to 418 00:26:01,810 --> 00:26:05,535 articulate what it is you're trying to do. Yeah. Yeah. Totally. 419 00:26:05,535 --> 00:26:09,375 And and it's not even you know, like, another big thing was, like, to not 420 00:26:09,375 --> 00:26:13,135 contend, which is which is an, something that I I try 421 00:26:13,135 --> 00:26:16,740 to do or try not to do in in every 422 00:26:16,960 --> 00:26:20,799 aspect of my creative life, is to not contend. It it's not 423 00:26:20,799 --> 00:26:24,534 it's not in this Gentle Bear is not in competition or not 424 00:26:24,534 --> 00:26:28,375 contending with other studios in Chicago. So 425 00:26:28,375 --> 00:26:31,800 amazing studios in Chicago and engineers and producers who are just 426 00:26:33,000 --> 00:26:36,760 masters. I mean, complete masters. And there's no I I'm 427 00:26:36,760 --> 00:26:40,280 not here to contend with my music, with my room, with 428 00:26:40,280 --> 00:26:43,865 my microphones, with you know, there is no 429 00:26:43,865 --> 00:26:47,625 competition for me. I know a lot of people feel different differently 430 00:26:47,625 --> 00:26:51,330 about that, but I I'm not in competition. Mhmm. 431 00:26:51,330 --> 00:26:55,169 Yeah. I love that too. I I think that in anything that you 432 00:26:55,169 --> 00:26:58,230 do, like, the competitive energy is usually 433 00:26:58,955 --> 00:27:02,635 not a good thing, I would say, maybe in my experience. Because I think even 434 00:27:02,635 --> 00:27:06,395 if you are doing the same thing as somebody else, like, if you succeed, 435 00:27:06,395 --> 00:27:09,890 it just helps the other person also. Like, it collaboration 436 00:27:10,030 --> 00:27:13,870 over competition. Like, I used to have a podcast studio, and 437 00:27:13,870 --> 00:27:17,615 it was kind of the same thing of, like, at first, I was, like, afraid. 438 00:27:17,615 --> 00:27:21,294 Oh, no. They're taking my clients, but it's like you do something 439 00:27:21,294 --> 00:27:24,950 differently than anybody else can do it. Like, it nobody can match who you are 440 00:27:24,950 --> 00:27:28,630 because you're an individual. And that, I think, is the thing to lean 441 00:27:28,630 --> 00:27:32,465 on, like, when you start becoming afraid of competition 442 00:27:32,465 --> 00:27:36,304 or stealing clients or something like that. Oh, I it's I totally agree with you. 443 00:27:36,304 --> 00:27:39,524 Yeah. Yeah. So, yeah, 444 00:27:39,940 --> 00:27:43,620 I wanna talk about your other projects too. So let's talk about into it over 445 00:27:43,620 --> 00:27:47,380 a little bit. How how did you first get into that band? And, 446 00:27:47,940 --> 00:27:51,655 you know, let's tell me about what you're doing. Yeah. Oh, man. What 447 00:27:51,715 --> 00:27:55,415 Intuit Over It is is just this really great family, 448 00:27:55,955 --> 00:27:59,320 and I joined the band 449 00:27:59,860 --> 00:28:02,919 Valentine's Day 2020. Mhmm. 450 00:28:03,299 --> 00:28:06,840 And, I've been, you know, I've been there 451 00:28:06,980 --> 00:28:10,485 ever since. And we, you know, it was really cool 452 00:28:10,485 --> 00:28:13,925 to to kind of jump on to a to a 453 00:28:13,925 --> 00:28:17,539 minority, a very a very existing, a 454 00:28:17,539 --> 00:28:20,980 very, you know, in a lot of ways, well oiled 455 00:28:20,980 --> 00:28:24,725 machine, you know, something that was in motion, you 456 00:28:24,725 --> 00:28:28,264 know, something that didn't need, you know, 457 00:28:28,725 --> 00:28:32,565 me to to, like, you know, jump start 458 00:28:32,565 --> 00:28:36,160 anything or to, like, oh, we really gotta get this going. You know? 459 00:28:36,540 --> 00:28:40,140 This thing is in motion. It is you know, there are fans and 460 00:28:40,140 --> 00:28:43,785 there's energy and there's originality and 461 00:28:43,785 --> 00:28:47,085 constant writing creating. So I was 462 00:28:47,705 --> 00:28:51,430 just kind of jumping on. And that's what it felt like at first. Like, okay, 463 00:28:51,430 --> 00:28:55,130 jumping, like learning. Okay. Learning, obviously, learning the parts 464 00:28:55,510 --> 00:28:59,305 and learning how to be in this family and learning how 465 00:28:59,305 --> 00:29:02,765 to be in this in this room 466 00:29:03,225 --> 00:29:07,050 with these with these guys, and it came 467 00:29:07,430 --> 00:29:11,030 very naturally. They made it very just open for 468 00:29:11,030 --> 00:29:14,870 me to be there and to be to be able to contribute in 469 00:29:14,870 --> 00:29:18,615 whatever way I wanted. You know? Of course, in the early days, had, 470 00:29:18,615 --> 00:29:22,455 like, you know, just feelings of, like, okay. I'm I'm I'm the new guy, 471 00:29:22,455 --> 00:29:26,280 and I'm the, I don't know, a little more careful maybe 472 00:29:26,740 --> 00:29:30,500 at first, a little more, like, just play the parts, you know, show up on 473 00:29:30,500 --> 00:29:34,165 time, play the parts, be professional, make a 474 00:29:34,165 --> 00:29:37,765 joke when it when it when there's an opening. And I and I think that 475 00:29:37,765 --> 00:29:41,545 all of that was self imposed. I think that they were completely, like, 476 00:29:42,400 --> 00:29:45,940 you can show you can be as wild as you want. You can be as 477 00:29:46,240 --> 00:29:49,840 colorful as you want. You can be I think that that all of the 478 00:29:49,840 --> 00:29:53,665 timidness that I had was was that was coming from 479 00:29:53,665 --> 00:29:57,505 me. That was not put on me by them. They were just 480 00:29:57,505 --> 00:30:01,265 very, like, let's do this. You know? So it was great. We 481 00:30:01,265 --> 00:30:05,030 we were rehearsing, writing new stuff. 482 00:30:05,170 --> 00:30:08,770 You know, this new record is about to come out. And and, this is the 483 00:30:08,770 --> 00:30:12,554 first full length record that this lineup, you know, had wrote and 484 00:30:12,554 --> 00:30:16,075 recorded together. So this is a really special week coming up here for me and 485 00:30:16,075 --> 00:30:19,840 for and and and, you know, yeah, it's just it's just a great, 486 00:30:20,160 --> 00:30:23,780 it's a great thing, and and it it definitely scratches an itch for me 487 00:30:24,240 --> 00:30:28,075 to get loud and wild on stage, which is 488 00:30:28,075 --> 00:30:31,434 something that I grew up doing, you know, 489 00:30:31,434 --> 00:30:34,970 playing rock and roll and stuff. And then when I started 490 00:30:35,049 --> 00:30:38,890 when when this kind of, like, more folk music started to spill 491 00:30:38,890 --> 00:30:42,330 out of me, you know, that meant that I was going on tours with just 492 00:30:42,330 --> 00:30:45,935 a guitar and, and, you know, singing just 493 00:30:45,935 --> 00:30:49,375 singing songs with me and a guitar, which I love doing. I love being very 494 00:30:49,375 --> 00:30:53,080 quiet on stage. I love trying to reel in a room 495 00:30:53,300 --> 00:30:57,060 to be as quiet as possible. Fucking love that. But with 496 00:30:57,060 --> 00:31:00,684 Intuitore, it's like this it's like the opposite. It's like turn it up 497 00:31:00,684 --> 00:31:03,965 and you can run and you can jump and you can, you know, if I 498 00:31:03,965 --> 00:31:06,385 could do a back flip, I'd do a back flip, you know? 499 00:31:07,950 --> 00:31:11,470 So it's great. And the tours are are all awesome and people show 500 00:31:11,470 --> 00:31:15,250 up and people say, you know, just 501 00:31:15,310 --> 00:31:19,145 give such wonderful feedback and people pump their fists and sing the lyrics from the 502 00:31:19,145 --> 00:31:22,925 crowd. You know? It's like it's it's an amazing it's an amazing thing. Evan 503 00:31:22,985 --> 00:31:26,620 Evan Weiss, the the the the creator of Intuit over it, 504 00:31:26,780 --> 00:31:29,440 He's created such a such an awesome 505 00:31:30,220 --> 00:31:34,065 family that spans across the world. You 506 00:31:34,065 --> 00:31:37,905 know, when we were just in Japan in November, it was like, oh my 507 00:31:37,905 --> 00:31:41,505 goodness. You know, there's these there are these Intuit overhead heads 508 00:31:41,505 --> 00:31:45,250 that are showing up and just, you know, 509 00:31:45,250 --> 00:31:49,090 jumping up and down. And it's like, this is what a cool what a 510 00:31:49,090 --> 00:31:51,350 cool thing to be a part of in life. It's awesome. 511 00:31:52,965 --> 00:31:56,804 Yeah. Yeah. And I and I like your, I guess, gratitude for the 512 00:31:56,804 --> 00:32:00,530 the fans for that too. Like, that's, I think, something to always be, I 513 00:32:00,530 --> 00:32:04,310 don't know, grounding. Maybe it helps you appreciate and be in the moment. 514 00:32:04,850 --> 00:32:08,655 So, yeah, I like your your perspective on that a lot. So how 515 00:32:08,655 --> 00:32:12,175 do you balance, like, the different parts the different musical 516 00:32:12,175 --> 00:32:15,295 parts of your life? Because you said you got, like, loud into it over it. 517 00:32:15,295 --> 00:32:18,649 You have your quieter solo stuff. Like, what does 518 00:32:19,429 --> 00:32:23,269 even, like, writing look like or, like, time management from a 519 00:32:23,269 --> 00:32:26,304 bigger perspective look like? Like, do you designate 520 00:32:26,845 --> 00:32:30,684 certain days or, like, how does that work? I have no time management tricks. I'll 521 00:32:30,684 --> 00:32:34,340 tell you. No. Sometimes I 522 00:32:34,340 --> 00:32:38,100 do. So some weeks it's it's kinda like every week is different for me, but 523 00:32:38,100 --> 00:32:41,399 but some weeks are are are really organized and and 524 00:32:41,675 --> 00:32:45,355 and kind of there are certain boxes that are this 525 00:32:45,355 --> 00:32:48,235 this is for this time and this is for that time and it or this 526 00:32:48,235 --> 00:32:51,850 time is for this and that time for that. But, really, it is, 527 00:32:52,169 --> 00:32:55,929 it's actually pretty chaotic, and I am completely driven 528 00:32:55,929 --> 00:32:58,914 by, like, 529 00:32:59,294 --> 00:33:03,054 creative moments. So that's 530 00:33:03,054 --> 00:33:06,815 a I think that's a good thing, or it feels like a good 531 00:33:06,815 --> 00:33:10,350 thing. And and and mostly it is because if it 532 00:33:10,350 --> 00:33:14,110 feels that way, then then then it should be. But 533 00:33:14,110 --> 00:33:17,764 what happens then, though, is sometimes if I do have a 534 00:33:17,764 --> 00:33:21,125 deadline with a project or something that is, you know, like a more of a 535 00:33:21,125 --> 00:33:24,565 job, more of a I'm I'm writing music for somebody else for their 536 00:33:24,565 --> 00:33:27,940 thing, I have to be careful to 537 00:33:28,320 --> 00:33:32,100 to really spend these 4 hours doing that. 538 00:33:32,855 --> 00:33:35,674 If I open myself up to 539 00:33:36,455 --> 00:33:40,250 creating, do it for to doing my own thing, I have 540 00:33:40,250 --> 00:33:44,090 to in somewhere in my creative brain, I have to to come to 541 00:33:44,090 --> 00:33:47,690 terms with the idea that if if I'm if I hit something right 542 00:33:47,690 --> 00:33:51,345 now, I could be here for the next 6 hours and and 543 00:33:51,345 --> 00:33:55,184 and turn my phone off and and and ignore everybody and 544 00:33:55,184 --> 00:33:58,860 just focus on this thing. And so that's when that 545 00:33:58,860 --> 00:34:02,700 happens, it's really great because that's how I've managed to complete 546 00:34:02,700 --> 00:34:06,385 songs and finish records and do that. It's the driver is the 547 00:34:06,385 --> 00:34:10,145 creative moment. So that's I guess 548 00:34:10,145 --> 00:34:13,949 I had to kinda go into each week and sometimes each day with with 549 00:34:13,949 --> 00:34:17,790 some sense of, like, okay. You you know, I I try to sit at the 550 00:34:17,790 --> 00:34:21,635 piano every morning. Stay at the piano this morning is a is a 551 00:34:21,635 --> 00:34:25,155 is a great example. I I had to be here with you. So it's like, 552 00:34:25,155 --> 00:34:28,949 okay. I'm in here at, like, around 7, and I'm 553 00:34:28,949 --> 00:34:32,630 pouring coffee, and I'm and I'm just playing some piano, and I'm not thinking, and 554 00:34:32,630 --> 00:34:36,310 I'm just, you know, just playing, like I said earlier, with no 555 00:34:36,310 --> 00:34:40,054 direction and no intention. And then around 10 minutes 556 00:34:40,054 --> 00:34:43,335 to 8, that's like, okay. We gotta, like, you know, we wait. I got I 557 00:34:43,335 --> 00:34:47,150 gotta I gotta stop that. I gotta sit here and and get ready 558 00:34:47,150 --> 00:34:50,989 to to to talk. And, I I I 559 00:34:50,989 --> 00:34:54,695 know some people who are so good at, like, blocking out 560 00:34:54,855 --> 00:34:57,975 their calendars and and then saying, like, you know, I I I work on this 561 00:34:57,975 --> 00:35:00,615 and then I work on that. And like I said, some weeks I do, and 562 00:35:00,615 --> 00:35:03,495 those weeks do feel really good too when I look back on a week and 563 00:35:03,495 --> 00:35:07,240 I'm like, oh, damn. Look at at that. I really, you know, I've really 564 00:35:07,240 --> 00:35:10,040 carved out the time for that. I did the thing that I had to do. 565 00:35:10,040 --> 00:35:13,720 I I made sure I finished that thing that I was procrastinating, and I 566 00:35:13,720 --> 00:35:17,515 still I still recorded some ambient music that that'll go on the 567 00:35:17,515 --> 00:35:21,355 next ambient record or whatever. You know? But I think that the 568 00:35:21,355 --> 00:35:25,190 the driver is creative moments. The best days are the ones that if I 569 00:35:25,190 --> 00:35:28,710 don't have a deadline and I don't have any, 570 00:35:28,710 --> 00:35:32,445 like, specific jobs to finish that day. I mean, 571 00:35:32,445 --> 00:35:36,205 those are the best days because I can just be here at the piano, 572 00:35:36,205 --> 00:35:39,665 at a guitar, at the synth, at whatever instrument, and just 573 00:35:39,885 --> 00:35:43,619 create creative motion. Sometimes that just leads to a 574 00:35:43,619 --> 00:35:47,299 bunch of little snippets that I come back to to flush out. But 575 00:35:47,299 --> 00:35:50,985 sometimes it leads to a full on, you know, 576 00:35:51,605 --> 00:35:55,445 explosion of creativity. And, like, that's those are those 577 00:35:55,445 --> 00:35:58,585 are the moments that are, like that that I kind of live for. 578 00:35:59,950 --> 00:36:03,710 I I wanna ask you about, like, self criticism, a 579 00:36:03,710 --> 00:36:07,445 little bit because I A little. I for me, like, I if I'm thinking 580 00:36:07,445 --> 00:36:11,205 of, like, sitting and taking a whole day and, like, trying to 581 00:36:11,205 --> 00:36:15,020 make music and nothing happens, then I 582 00:36:15,020 --> 00:36:18,480 look at that day like, I didn't do anything. It wasn't productive. 583 00:36:19,020 --> 00:36:22,635 Start criticizing myself. What do you do that? 584 00:36:22,635 --> 00:36:25,035 Did did does it, like what happens if you get to the end of a 585 00:36:25,035 --> 00:36:28,335 whole day that you were excited about and, like, nothing happens? Yeah. 586 00:36:29,260 --> 00:36:31,680 Yeah. Those sometimes those are days are tough. 587 00:36:33,420 --> 00:36:37,005 I shake those feelings pretty quickly even if I'm, like, leaving the 588 00:36:37,005 --> 00:36:40,525 studio and I'm like, Jesus. What a waste of and that was. I 589 00:36:40,525 --> 00:36:44,339 I and shit. I I don't 590 00:36:44,339 --> 00:36:48,099 know. I shake those feelings pretty quickly. Because sometimes I re I go 591 00:36:48,099 --> 00:36:50,900 back and I relisten to, like, some of the stuff, and I'm like, oh, there 592 00:36:51,495 --> 00:36:55,095 Now there's a little something there. I can grab that and then make something out 593 00:36:55,095 --> 00:36:58,615 of it. The self doubt, self criticism is, 594 00:36:59,735 --> 00:37:03,290 is such a beast. And, it's funny you asked that. I, like, 595 00:37:03,290 --> 00:37:06,970 just I just posted this thing, like, before we got on about 596 00:37:06,970 --> 00:37:10,650 self doubt. I I started a TikTok and, yeah, the the 597 00:37:10,650 --> 00:37:14,325 angle that I I thought for a long time about, like, what to do 598 00:37:14,325 --> 00:37:18,165 starting a TikTok channel. And and and I didn't want to for a long time. 599 00:37:18,165 --> 00:37:20,859 And I was like, I don't wanna just be, I don't wanna be ripping guitar 600 00:37:20,859 --> 00:37:24,539 on TikTok. I don't wanna do that, and I don't wanna be talking about 601 00:37:24,539 --> 00:37:28,220 pedals and gear on TikTok. I really don't. There's it's so I there's enough 602 00:37:28,220 --> 00:37:31,055 people doing it. Enough people doing a really good job at it. I I I 603 00:37:31,055 --> 00:37:34,895 don't, you know, I don't wanna do that. And then I landed 604 00:37:34,895 --> 00:37:37,775 on the idea of, like, I I should just really try to inspire people to 605 00:37:37,775 --> 00:37:41,440 to make music and and, like, finish things or, 606 00:37:41,440 --> 00:37:44,720 like, not, you know, these kinds of things that we're talking about, trying to shed 607 00:37:44,720 --> 00:37:48,455 the self doubt and, like, you know, finish music and and make the noise you 608 00:37:48,455 --> 00:37:52,215 wanna hear. And, self doubt. I 609 00:37:52,215 --> 00:37:55,960 I I do meditate on this idea that of, thinking of a 610 00:37:55,960 --> 00:37:59,660 song that you love or, like, a piece of music that you really love. And 611 00:38:00,200 --> 00:38:04,015 considering the the probably the fact that 612 00:38:04,015 --> 00:38:07,855 the person who made the artist who made that piece of music went 613 00:38:07,855 --> 00:38:11,635 through some time window of that this sucks. 614 00:38:12,000 --> 00:38:15,299 You know, this is no good. I shouldn't finish this. This is garbage. 615 00:38:16,000 --> 00:38:18,960 And then, like, if you hear that piece of music in your head right now, 616 00:38:18,960 --> 00:38:22,425 like, have a specific piece of music maybe in your head and and and, 617 00:38:22,425 --> 00:38:26,025 like, hearing it and then thinking of that artist who created 618 00:38:26,025 --> 00:38:29,750 it saying that about that music. And you think like, woah. What the hell? 619 00:38:29,750 --> 00:38:33,349 Come on. No. Like, this this music is amazing. How could someone actually think of 620 00:38:33,349 --> 00:38:36,869 that? But there's this strange thing that we go through when we create these things. 621 00:38:36,869 --> 00:38:40,505 There's these there are these peculiar microscopes that we put on 622 00:38:40,505 --> 00:38:44,125 them that only only the the creator 623 00:38:44,345 --> 00:38:47,405 can can look at in in in a certain 624 00:38:47,990 --> 00:38:51,830 critical way. And sometimes that's that's really good self criticism. Sometimes that's 625 00:38:51,830 --> 00:38:55,430 real a really good look to say, you know what? This could be better or 626 00:38:55,430 --> 00:38:58,945 or that's not the right thing or or whatever. But oftentimes, 627 00:38:59,005 --> 00:39:02,625 it's destructive. And so putting yourself in this 628 00:39:02,925 --> 00:39:06,740 or or having realizing that that feeling is 629 00:39:06,740 --> 00:39:10,340 a natural component of this process and that it's a shared feeling, in 630 00:39:10,340 --> 00:39:13,080 fact, with probably some of your heroes. 631 00:39:14,015 --> 00:39:17,775 That seems to lighten the burden of it a little bit and to think, oh, 632 00:39:17,775 --> 00:39:21,214 okay. Well, if this is a shared feeling, if this is just some if this 633 00:39:21,214 --> 00:39:25,010 is just this natural, you know, gremlin that's flying 634 00:39:25,010 --> 00:39:28,450 around in all of our heads, then it's been silenced 635 00:39:28,450 --> 00:39:32,184 before by by a lot of purpose. So it can be silenced 636 00:39:32,184 --> 00:39:36,025 by me too, and I can just cut through and and lighten that 637 00:39:36,025 --> 00:39:39,730 load and and finish this this, this single piano note 638 00:39:39,730 --> 00:39:43,329 that I've been trying to get the right sound for last. Oh, 639 00:39:43,329 --> 00:39:46,470 man. I love that. There there's so many things I could say to that. 640 00:39:48,115 --> 00:39:51,895 Yeah. Just, like, not putting other people on pedestals and, like, 641 00:39:52,355 --> 00:39:56,080 realizing that they're the same as you and yeah, 642 00:39:56,080 --> 00:39:59,680 that I love all that. And then also, like, the your 643 00:39:59,680 --> 00:40:03,520 TikTok, and I follow you on Instagram. I try also to stay away from social 644 00:40:03,520 --> 00:40:06,295 media a lot, but there are certain accounts that, like, 645 00:40:06,915 --> 00:40:10,275 are worth being there, and and I think yours is one of them. I saw 646 00:40:10,275 --> 00:40:13,234 a couple of the videos that you shared and, like, one of them you were 647 00:40:13,234 --> 00:40:16,460 talking about how you used the kalimba in your single that just came out, and 648 00:40:16,460 --> 00:40:19,660 I was like, that's so cool. Like, I had no idea that's that was a 649 00:40:19,660 --> 00:40:22,619 kalimba, and now listening to it, I'm like, oh, okay. I hear it. And, like 650 00:40:23,145 --> 00:40:26,685 and and I think what it is is it's being, like, authentic, like, being 651 00:40:26,825 --> 00:40:30,525 just yourself, like, not trying to be this virtuoso or, like, 652 00:40:31,450 --> 00:40:35,289 all encompassing petal king. It's like it's 653 00:40:35,289 --> 00:40:38,490 like you're just being a human and yourself, and I think that that's what people 654 00:40:38,490 --> 00:40:42,315 connect with. So, yeah, so so so many things to talk 655 00:40:42,315 --> 00:40:44,555 about, but we are kinda coming to the end of our time, and I've got 656 00:40:44,555 --> 00:40:47,835 a couple questions for you left. Your album that's coming out, 657 00:40:48,235 --> 00:40:51,970 want you to, like, tell tell everybody about it, talk about it. The single is 658 00:40:51,970 --> 00:40:55,330 out, and it's really good. I like it a lot, and I will definitely link 659 00:40:55,330 --> 00:40:58,875 it in the show notes. But, tell us what you can about the album. Oh, 660 00:40:58,875 --> 00:41:02,234 yeah. The album is, it's called folk 661 00:41:02,234 --> 00:41:06,060 cinema, and it's gonna be out, at the end of July. First 662 00:41:06,060 --> 00:41:09,580 single was released just a couple weeks ago. First single is called Stone's 663 00:41:09,580 --> 00:41:13,100 Throw, a song about being around, about wanting to be 664 00:41:13,100 --> 00:41:16,525 here for for your for your friends, for your fam, the people who need 665 00:41:16,525 --> 00:41:20,365 you. There's some nostalgic sense of the song and the 666 00:41:20,365 --> 00:41:23,825 whole record. There is a sense of in this song, 667 00:41:24,420 --> 00:41:28,020 some kind of we we we do know that our this 668 00:41:28,020 --> 00:41:30,980 isn't explicitly said in the song, but we do know that our our our time 669 00:41:30,980 --> 00:41:34,565 is limited here. We we have that understanding. We all do, whether we 670 00:41:34,565 --> 00:41:38,325 ignore it or not. And so our time is limited. And while 671 00:41:38,325 --> 00:41:41,810 we're here, I mean, there's a lyric that that says I wanna be here 672 00:41:41,810 --> 00:41:45,330 before I go. And and that what that means is just while while we're 673 00:41:45,330 --> 00:41:49,110 here, like, I I actually want to to be here. I wanna be around 674 00:41:49,715 --> 00:41:52,995 for the people that I love, and that's, 675 00:41:53,875 --> 00:41:57,660 we're all gonna be gone. We're all gonna be just gone. And, 676 00:41:58,460 --> 00:42:01,859 we are here now. I I think unless this is 677 00:42:02,300 --> 00:42:05,015 as far as we know or as far as I feel, like, we we are 678 00:42:05,015 --> 00:42:08,135 here. There is physical reality around us, and we can we can help each other 679 00:42:08,135 --> 00:42:11,175 out. We can give each other hugs, and we can, you know, we can so 680 00:42:11,175 --> 00:42:14,119 on the stones, throw away if you need me. The record 681 00:42:15,140 --> 00:42:18,980 itself, there is, there's a bit more of that. My wife said 682 00:42:18,980 --> 00:42:22,454 it it's what I do is I write lullabies for adults. And, 683 00:42:23,355 --> 00:42:27,155 and, that's, that made me laugh and that it 684 00:42:27,155 --> 00:42:30,070 was like and I thought about it a few days later. I was like, damn. 685 00:42:30,070 --> 00:42:33,730 Is that really what I do? But I do have some yeah. I I do 686 00:42:33,958 --> 00:42:37,350 when I'm writing a song, and or when I was writing the songs in this 687 00:42:37,350 --> 00:42:40,965 record, there was some sense of, like, I don't know, peace and 688 00:42:40,965 --> 00:42:44,665 help and, like, simplicity, 689 00:42:45,205 --> 00:42:48,960 I guess, or something. And the the the idea 690 00:42:48,960 --> 00:42:52,340 of folk cinema started as a mantra 691 00:42:53,119 --> 00:42:56,785 for me when I was recording. Some of these songs I recorded 2 or 692 00:42:56,785 --> 00:43:00,545 3 times threw, like, threw it away completely, started over, 693 00:43:00,545 --> 00:43:04,305 threw it away, and then I would land on something. Oh, there's 694 00:43:04,305 --> 00:43:07,900 the there's the color. There's the character. That's the thing that 695 00:43:07,900 --> 00:43:11,420 can that can make this more special. And 696 00:43:11,420 --> 00:43:14,954 so I was thinking of in certain characters and in 697 00:43:14,954 --> 00:43:18,795 certain lighting aspects. You know? So so the idea 698 00:43:18,795 --> 00:43:22,530 of folks in a was was something that I would just try 699 00:43:22,530 --> 00:43:26,210 to repeat to myself as I was approaching a song 700 00:43:26,210 --> 00:43:30,045 or the sound of the piano or something like that. Folk 701 00:43:30,345 --> 00:43:34,025 cinema. These songs are rooted in folk somehow, some 702 00:43:34,025 --> 00:43:37,705 way. They they they are very, for the most part, quite simple. There's 703 00:43:37,705 --> 00:43:41,370 not a lot of chord changes that are, oh, that's a big left turn, 704 00:43:41,370 --> 00:43:45,130 or, woah, that's a really interesting, tension on a chord. There's a 705 00:43:45,130 --> 00:43:48,335 little bit of that, but it's mostly, like, pretty straightforward 706 00:43:49,194 --> 00:43:52,954 harmonically. So there's this folk aspect. And if I played 707 00:43:52,954 --> 00:43:56,540 some of these songs alone by myself without any production, without the kalimba, without, you 708 00:43:56,540 --> 00:43:59,056 know, then it could sound like just like a folk singer, you know, singing them, 709 00:43:59,056 --> 00:44:01,900 and which I'm cool with. But then there's this cinema side, where it's there are 710 00:44:01,900 --> 00:44:05,315 these lights and these the this framing, where it's there are these 711 00:44:05,315 --> 00:44:09,075 lights and these this framing, and this 712 00:44:09,075 --> 00:44:12,890 plume of light that that shines on a certain character who 713 00:44:12,890 --> 00:44:16,190 is trying to translate these sounds, who's trying to 714 00:44:16,570 --> 00:44:20,110 understand and communicate the idea behind these sounds 715 00:44:20,250 --> 00:44:24,045 and and what it means. And if that meaning could encapsulate 716 00:44:24,184 --> 00:44:27,785 and could could could put a a a hug around the 717 00:44:27,785 --> 00:44:31,359 chords and the lyrics and the the harmonic content, then that's what 718 00:44:31,359 --> 00:44:34,580 folk cinema is. It's this this lighting of it, this reframing, 719 00:44:35,440 --> 00:44:39,234 from things that are that that have been done many times before. You know, 720 00:44:39,234 --> 00:44:42,934 the c major, g major, and f major, you know, 721 00:44:43,154 --> 00:44:46,914 and a in a reframing, in a new light, and, focusing on 722 00:44:46,914 --> 00:44:50,210 us. So it it started as a mantra, and then and then at a certain 723 00:44:50,210 --> 00:44:53,010 point, I realized, like, oh, this is probably just gonna be the title of the 724 00:44:53,010 --> 00:44:56,765 record because it's it's been so so much, on 725 00:44:56,765 --> 00:45:00,525 this wheel in my head that it's that now it just makes 726 00:45:00,525 --> 00:45:04,205 sense to that it is the concept. It is the thing that this 727 00:45:04,205 --> 00:45:06,670 collection of songs is lit under. 728 00:45:08,090 --> 00:45:11,550 Yeah. That's that's really cool. I like the idea of it, like, 729 00:45:11,690 --> 00:45:15,395 being simplistic almost, but then also, like, you said that kind 730 00:45:15,395 --> 00:45:18,995 of new light. I think that's a interesting way to look 731 00:45:18,995 --> 00:45:22,595 at a project or to describe it. I I I always 732 00:45:22,595 --> 00:45:26,240 like getting, like, a artist's interpretation of, like 733 00:45:26,480 --> 00:45:30,160 or ex explanation more so of, like, what they're doing because then it makes 734 00:45:30,160 --> 00:45:34,005 me look at it almost in a different way too. So that that's that's 735 00:45:34,005 --> 00:45:37,685 really cool and exciting, and I can't wait to hear the rest of it. Next 736 00:45:37,685 --> 00:45:41,205 single is gonna is gonna be out, the middle of May, and then and then 737 00:45:41,205 --> 00:45:44,370 I think we're doing a 3rd single too in June and then the full record 738 00:45:44,370 --> 00:45:46,370 out at the end of the summer. So I can't wait to share the whole 739 00:45:46,370 --> 00:45:50,130 thing with you. Awesome. Yeah. I can't wait to listen. But, yeah, like I said, 740 00:45:50,130 --> 00:45:53,522 we're coming to the end of our time, and I got one question I gotta 741 00:45:53,522 --> 00:45:56,971 ask you because I always ask everybody what purpose means to them because that it's 742 00:45:56,971 --> 00:46:00,320 a big word for me, and I'm on a journey of, like, trying to find 743 00:46:00,320 --> 00:46:03,760 purpose for me and, you know, a 744 00:46:03,760 --> 00:46:07,285 reason as to why I'm here, as to why we're here. So I'm curious to 745 00:46:07,285 --> 00:46:11,125 get your perspective on what purpose means to you. The last question, 746 00:46:11,125 --> 00:46:14,665 the biggest question ever. Mhmm. Oh, man. 747 00:46:15,950 --> 00:46:18,769 I think that, ultimately, 748 00:46:20,109 --> 00:46:23,789 none of this may mean anything at all. None of 749 00:46:23,789 --> 00:46:27,485 what we do or everything that we do could 750 00:46:27,485 --> 00:46:31,325 just end up, you know, washed away at sea with 751 00:46:31,325 --> 00:46:34,710 no meaning. I know that's dark, but but I'm getting somewhere. 752 00:46:37,170 --> 00:46:40,690 Purpose is a tough word. So for 753 00:46:40,690 --> 00:46:44,245 me, I don't want to I don't 754 00:46:44,245 --> 00:46:47,385 like the feel I don't enjoy the feeling of elevating 755 00:46:48,165 --> 00:46:52,010 things that I do into some kind of purpose. I do 756 00:46:52,010 --> 00:46:55,390 have a purpose with it. I feel 757 00:46:55,610 --> 00:46:59,050 compelled to finish that song or 758 00:46:59,050 --> 00:47:02,895 to write that piece for the piano, but its 759 00:47:02,955 --> 00:47:06,635 purpose is is somewhere somewhere, like, 760 00:47:06,635 --> 00:47:10,420 buried within that that I that I don't know how to 761 00:47:10,559 --> 00:47:14,319 speak of outwardly. There is a purpose. I I I 762 00:47:14,319 --> 00:47:17,775 walk to the studio here and I walk in here with with 763 00:47:17,775 --> 00:47:21,315 purpose, but it is contained. It's not 764 00:47:21,775 --> 00:47:25,235 it's not a purpose that I that I that I would 765 00:47:25,295 --> 00:47:29,109 burden anyone else with. Maybe that's not the right way to 766 00:47:29,109 --> 00:47:32,950 say it. It's not it's not a purpose that I feel is it's 767 00:47:32,950 --> 00:47:36,724 not important. It's not important. What I what I do is not important. 768 00:47:36,865 --> 00:47:40,484 It it it is I do feel a purpose with it, but, ultimately, it is 769 00:47:40,865 --> 00:47:44,369 some creative expression to conjure up 770 00:47:44,510 --> 00:47:47,329 some feeling and some nostalgia and some emotion 771 00:47:47,950 --> 00:47:51,605 among other human beings if they so choose to open up 772 00:47:51,605 --> 00:47:55,305 to to experience those things. Is that still, 773 00:47:55,525 --> 00:47:58,780 at the end of the day, a purpose? I don't know. It's a feeling and 774 00:47:58,780 --> 00:48:02,300 it is passing. It's like it's passing me right by. And so 775 00:48:02,300 --> 00:48:05,895 it's I, I try to capture these 776 00:48:05,895 --> 00:48:09,675 things as they pass, but they are all passing. So 777 00:48:10,055 --> 00:48:13,460 so purpose is is tough. No. That's very 778 00:48:13,460 --> 00:48:16,440 interesting, and it's so interesting to me the way that, like, 779 00:48:17,220 --> 00:48:20,900 for me, things fall in place because I just did an interview last night, and 780 00:48:20,900 --> 00:48:24,724 it was a similar question. And most times I get people to answer it, like, 781 00:48:24,785 --> 00:48:27,905 oh, it's this and and, like, a kind of a straightforward answer, but the last 782 00:48:27,905 --> 00:48:31,750 two interviews have, like, flipped it on me and been, like, well, I 783 00:48:31,750 --> 00:48:34,650 don't think it's important or, like, 784 00:48:35,430 --> 00:48:38,985 very short way to sum up what you just said, but, like, it's making me 785 00:48:38,985 --> 00:48:42,744 think about, like, okay. Maybe I'm putting a little too 786 00:48:42,744 --> 00:48:46,105 much emphasis on, like, the reason of being and maybe the 787 00:48:46,105 --> 00:48:49,580 reason because what came up in the other interview was just, like, the journey, just 788 00:48:49,580 --> 00:48:53,180 being here present and existing, and, like, the 789 00:48:53,180 --> 00:48:56,605 bigger picture doesn't matter because maybe there is no bigger picture or, 790 00:48:57,725 --> 00:49:01,484 it's almost like it's almost like an ego thing maybe, 791 00:49:01,725 --> 00:49:05,244 of thinking, like, there has to be an important reason as to what I'm doing 792 00:49:05,244 --> 00:49:08,520 now. Like, maybe there doesn't. Maybe it can just be because it's 793 00:49:09,300 --> 00:49:13,140 enjoyment or, like, you're having fun with it or it's doing something for 794 00:49:13,140 --> 00:49:16,865 somebody else. So it's interesting. I I've taken a break and then started 795 00:49:16,865 --> 00:49:20,464 recording episodes and, like, the it's something for me to to 796 00:49:20,464 --> 00:49:24,310 contemplate, I think. So I I appreciate that answer. Yeah. I hope you 797 00:49:24,310 --> 00:49:27,986 never stop contemplating that question. Like, it's because it's not to say that 798 00:49:27,986 --> 00:49:31,662 it doesn't mean anything. So there we go. Wash your hands. You're done. It's 799 00:49:31,662 --> 00:49:35,375 it's to say that that it that's a deep, deep well of 800 00:49:35,375 --> 00:49:39,055 contemplation. And, but I think that you said it too, 801 00:49:39,055 --> 00:49:42,860 something about just, like, really being in in the right now, 802 00:49:42,860 --> 00:49:46,700 in in in this moment. If if there is something that that 803 00:49:46,700 --> 00:49:50,475 you do or some some emotion that you access that 804 00:49:50,475 --> 00:49:54,315 brings that brings inner peace. And if you can and if you can share 805 00:49:54,315 --> 00:49:58,110 that, translate that in some way, and I love the idea 806 00:49:58,110 --> 00:50:01,710 of translating it through art. But if you can translate that in any way, communicate 807 00:50:01,710 --> 00:50:04,830 that in any way so that it hits somebody else and it sparks that that 808 00:50:04,830 --> 00:50:08,515 little inner peace in them, then that seems like some that 809 00:50:08,515 --> 00:50:12,135 seems like maybe some kind of purpose. Yeah. 810 00:50:12,435 --> 00:50:16,270 Yeah. I love that. Well, thank you so much for your time 811 00:50:16,270 --> 00:50:20,110 and, you know, the conversation. It's been very thought 812 00:50:20,110 --> 00:50:23,865 provoking for me, and, it yeah. I appreciate your time, and I appreciate you 813 00:50:23,865 --> 00:50:27,625 spending it with us. And, you know, this has been great. And, and, 814 00:50:27,625 --> 00:50:31,200 man, good luck on everything with the podcast, and, I hope you 815 00:50:31,200 --> 00:50:34,720 talk to, so many other people who have who have really great 816 00:50:34,720 --> 00:50:38,325 ideas and thought provoking subjects. Thank you. Thank you. 817 00:50:38,724 --> 00:50:42,005 And, as always, I'll link all your stuff in the show notes so people can 818 00:50:42,005 --> 00:50:45,650 get to your albums, and all the projects and stuff that you're working on. But, 819 00:50:45,890 --> 00:50:48,789 yeah, I hope I hope the best to you for the new Intuit Over record 820 00:50:48,849 --> 00:50:52,609 and your new solo record and your, your tour that 821 00:50:52,609 --> 00:50:56,115 you posted about that we didn't get a chance to talk about, but I'll, I'll 822 00:50:56,115 --> 00:50:59,735 link your Instagram and TikTok so people can find it. Sounds awesome. 823 00:51:01,395 --> 00:51:05,160 Thank you for listening to Working Towards Our Purpose. If you liked today's 824 00:51:05,160 --> 00:51:08,599 episode and are interested in more, you can sign up for my Substack 825 00:51:08,599 --> 00:51:12,095 newsletter with the link in the show notes, where I share thoughts, 826 00:51:12,175 --> 00:51:15,875 tips, and ideas that I'm learning along my journey to help inspire 827 00:51:15,935 --> 00:51:19,234 you. The show was produced by Pleasant Podcast at pleasantpodcast.com.