1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:03,660 Unknown: Bitcoin is so volatile. Yeah, there are days, there are 2 00:00:03,660 --> 00:00:06,060 weeks that I've lost $40,000 but 3 00:00:06,180 --> 00:00:09,180 then it comes back up. He's got to keep the faith. It's day to 4 00:00:09,180 --> 00:00:13,200 day. Could be so are you gonna get, are you gonna get into any 5 00:00:13,200 --> 00:00:13,800 of that? That's 6 00:00:13,800 --> 00:00:16,980 not my thing, man. My wife's a tax accountant. She's all about 7 00:00:16,980 --> 00:00:18,960 the safe investments. You know, safe, yeah, 8 00:00:19,140 --> 00:00:20,280 store value. Well, 9 00:00:20,580 --> 00:00:23,360 you guys are younger, so you can go a little bit more aggressive. 10 00:00:23,360 --> 00:00:23,900 Yeah, yeah, 11 00:00:24,140 --> 00:00:26,960 yeah, we can still take the risks. Nice. She's a tax 12 00:00:26,960 --> 00:00:29,240 accountant. Yeah, she's 13 00:00:30,740 --> 00:00:33,620 taking on new clients. No, why not? She? She works 14 00:00:33,620 --> 00:00:35,840 for the business management on the firm, does 15 00:00:35,840 --> 00:00:37,940 she? Yeah, we know where she works and everything. Yeah, 16 00:00:38,780 --> 00:00:39,260 amazing. 17 00:00:39,320 --> 00:00:42,280 Because, I mean, they're in demand right now? Yeah, yeah. 18 00:00:42,280 --> 00:00:45,580 It's they may not be in demand if the IRS goes away, which I 19 00:00:45,580 --> 00:00:47,560 pray for the day that comes, it would be 20 00:00:47,560 --> 00:00:49,960 nice to save that amount of money in taxes every year. Oh, 21 00:00:49,960 --> 00:00:52,360 god. What would you do with it? You could do home improvements. 22 00:00:52,360 --> 00:00:53,680 You could stick it in your IRA, and 23 00:00:53,680 --> 00:00:57,220 imagine the economy that's taken off and rip roaring, because I 24 00:00:57,220 --> 00:00:59,800 have to worry about freaking April 14. But I think you would. 25 00:00:59,800 --> 00:01:02,160 You want me to go on my IRS tirade again, I will. I think 26 00:01:02,160 --> 00:01:04,560 it'd be sometime before that actually happens where we 27 00:01:04,560 --> 00:01:07,320 abolish taxes. It's good, oh, it's not gonna be. 28 00:01:07,320 --> 00:01:09,780 We're not abolishing taxes. We're just changing the 29 00:01:09,780 --> 00:01:12,000 framework of how we get the taxes. 30 00:01:12,000 --> 00:01:14,760 I know, but I think it's gonna be some time. I don't know. It's 31 00:01:14,760 --> 00:01:16,080 even with the best joke of it, 32 00:01:16,200 --> 00:01:18,480 of a pen man, he's me. He's making changes with that 33 00:01:18,480 --> 00:01:21,320 executive those executive orders pretty quickly. He you're 34 00:01:21,320 --> 00:01:21,620 talking 35 00:01:25,160 --> 00:01:28,100 about anyway, this is the rich Redmond show. 36 00:01:34,040 --> 00:01:37,040 Well, I've been doing it, you know, you're doing the spiky, 37 00:01:37,160 --> 00:01:39,500 yeah, but where it's shaved around everywhere. Now I'm doing 38 00:01:39,500 --> 00:01:43,420 the, I'm gonna try to do the Grayson or whatever his last 39 00:01:43,420 --> 00:01:46,180 name is, where it's just all kind of like 40 00:01:46,300 --> 00:01:50,200 you should grow a, you should do a neck beard. Grow a grow just a 41 00:01:50,200 --> 00:01:54,400 big old bush shoulder. Start being like a competitive 42 00:01:54,400 --> 00:01:55,240 bearder. I think 43 00:01:55,240 --> 00:01:57,700 this would be, did you eat all of your things? Because we can 44 00:01:57,700 --> 00:02:00,220 use these as shakers. Yeah, dude, what do you think 45 00:02:00,220 --> 00:02:03,300 competitive beer, competitive bearder. That's probably already 46 00:02:03,300 --> 00:02:03,720 a thing, it 47 00:02:03,720 --> 00:02:06,480 is? It totally is. There's one of the guys that works for us, 48 00:02:06,480 --> 00:02:09,360 does it? He's got a big old beard. Beards 49 00:02:09,360 --> 00:02:10,020 are so Did 50 00:02:10,980 --> 00:02:13,800 you ever do it? No, I can't look at me. I 51 00:02:13,800 --> 00:02:16,620 do have a baby face, which is nice. And, you know, the funny 52 00:02:16,620 --> 00:02:17,700 thing, Jim is, I 53 00:02:17,700 --> 00:02:20,900 love the fact you look great with the more hair. I think you 54 00:02:20,900 --> 00:02:24,680 should do the, you know, a beard with the Antonio Banderas. What 55 00:02:24,680 --> 00:02:26,900 you say, I'm making you like me with the more hair. Yeah, 56 00:02:26,900 --> 00:02:30,020 thanks, babe. You got the more hair, and then slick it back in 57 00:02:30,020 --> 00:02:33,740 a ponytail and look like, you know, a Venezuelan gangster. 58 00:02:33,740 --> 00:02:34,160 Well, what's 59 00:02:34,160 --> 00:02:39,140 great about growing it out, bro, is that when my band is back in 60 00:02:39,140 --> 00:02:43,180 action one five or six weeks from now, I'll be ready, dude, 61 00:02:43,180 --> 00:02:47,800 I'll be like, I tell all the kids, you don't have to get 62 00:02:47,800 --> 00:02:51,280 ready if you stay ready. So I got the sticks in my hands, you 63 00:02:51,280 --> 00:02:51,760 know, I'm, have 64 00:02:52,960 --> 00:02:55,660 you been, uh, shaking the rust off? I 65 00:02:55,660 --> 00:02:58,240 mean, I'm busy teaching. So I got the sticks in my hands. You 66 00:02:58,240 --> 00:02:59,680 know, that's good. Well, 67 00:02:59,680 --> 00:03:01,980 you always got the kid here if you need to. You know, don't 68 00:03:03,420 --> 00:03:05,100 want to work and bang on those drums all 69 00:03:05,100 --> 00:03:08,100 day. Thanks, buddy. Yeah, I know I gotta get the studio together. 70 00:03:08,220 --> 00:03:12,480 Why? Because I'm chasing the youth. Man. Today's guest, I 71 00:03:12,480 --> 00:03:16,680 tell you what we always talk about reinventing and today is a 72 00:03:16,680 --> 00:03:20,360 prime example of someone who has the same background. Of me went 73 00:03:20,360 --> 00:03:24,860 to the same school, studied with the same guys. Probably had some 74 00:03:24,860 --> 00:03:29,000 similar interests, similar influences. We moved to the same 75 00:03:29,000 --> 00:03:32,840 city, one generation apart, and he's doing the thing. It's 76 00:03:32,840 --> 00:03:35,660 amazing, but then he decides he wants to do something else, and 77 00:03:35,660 --> 00:03:39,260 he's incredible at it. Who am I talking about? Talking about Ben 78 00:03:39,260 --> 00:03:42,700 Jackson. Ben Jackson is our guest today on the rich Redmond 79 00:03:42,700 --> 00:03:45,880 show, where we talk about music and motivation and success and 80 00:03:45,880 --> 00:03:49,420 drums and whatever comes up along the way. He's from 81 00:03:49,420 --> 00:03:54,640 Atlanta. He moved to Nashville in oh eight at the tender age of 82 00:03:54,640 --> 00:03:57,880 24 he's played for people like Aaron Tippin. Remember building 83 00:03:57,940 --> 00:04:00,640 the bike Frankie Ballard, love Frankie Ballard, I played some 84 00:04:00,640 --> 00:04:04,260 shaker and tambourine on his records. On that tour, they 85 00:04:04,260 --> 00:04:08,460 opened for Bob Seeger with John Brewer from Grand Funk Railroad 86 00:04:08,580 --> 00:04:11,520 on the drum. So he's going to tell us how they got to visit 87 00:04:11,520 --> 00:04:13,620 and know each other. Hope they did. I also played with guys 88 00:04:13,620 --> 00:04:17,940 like Greg Bates, Joe Nichols halfway to hazard. We share that 89 00:04:17,940 --> 00:04:21,620 credit. Yeah. Ben, how are you? Man, welcome aboard. Man, good 90 00:04:21,620 --> 00:04:23,600 to be here. Thanks for having me. Man, well, 91 00:04:23,600 --> 00:04:27,440 I tell you what, you deserve to be here, and you probably win 92 00:04:27,440 --> 00:04:30,800 the award for most traveled. Well, we did have a gentleman 93 00:04:30,800 --> 00:04:33,980 that drove from Chattanooga yesterday, but all the way from 94 00:04:33,980 --> 00:04:37,820 Mount Juliet, that's an hour, yeah, and then we had to kill 95 00:04:37,820 --> 00:04:41,260 some time. I got two tacos, and you've been so patient, and 96 00:04:41,260 --> 00:04:42,100 thank you all good. 97 00:04:43,360 --> 00:04:47,980 It was sort of my fault. Yeah, we fully blame you. That's good 98 00:04:48,100 --> 00:04:49,840 as you should. Scheduling 99 00:04:49,840 --> 00:04:53,980 is crazy. I mean, all of our episodes, I have to send Jim a 100 00:04:53,980 --> 00:04:57,040 Google calendar invite. Sometimes he gets and sometimes 101 00:04:57,040 --> 00:04:59,920 he doesn't, but that's the whole thing in life. Is just like. 102 00:05:00,000 --> 00:05:03,180 Realizing it's like sands through the hourglass is we've 103 00:05:03,180 --> 00:05:06,180 only got so much time. Yeah, half my life is scheduling too, 104 00:05:06,240 --> 00:05:09,420 you know? And so you were saying you get up early because you got 105 00:05:09,420 --> 00:05:12,480 to be tracking in your own home studio. 106 00:05:12,540 --> 00:05:15,360 Yeah, I'm in there. I want to be in there way before anybody 107 00:05:15,360 --> 00:05:16,680 else. So I'm up early. So 108 00:05:16,680 --> 00:05:20,300 if the session starts at 10 and some other players are coming 109 00:05:20,300 --> 00:05:23,180 in. They want to get sounds. You're having your coffee at 110 00:05:23,180 --> 00:05:26,600 eight o'clock. Yeah, I'm in the door at eight o'clock, nice. And 111 00:05:26,600 --> 00:05:30,800 you're 20 feet from your house. 40 couple 100 but yeah, a couple 112 00:05:30,800 --> 00:05:31,280 100 feet. 113 00:05:31,280 --> 00:05:34,100 Yeah, I want to say that. He said that half of his life is 114 00:05:34,100 --> 00:05:37,820 scheduling his life. Yeah. Do you actually block out time to 115 00:05:37,820 --> 00:05:39,860 schedule your life? And is it on a calendar 116 00:05:40,400 --> 00:05:44,020 I spend, I do block out admin time. Now, that's not something 117 00:05:44,020 --> 00:05:46,540 I did when I was just a drummer, you know. But like, yeah, yeah, 118 00:05:46,540 --> 00:05:47,800 there's like, AD, would you 119 00:05:47,920 --> 00:05:50,860 like, if you got so busy, would you be able to have your wife 120 00:05:50,860 --> 00:05:51,700 help you with that? 121 00:05:52,720 --> 00:05:54,760 She's got her own job, right? Yeah? 122 00:05:54,760 --> 00:05:58,360 I mean, she would, she would help. But 123 00:05:59,080 --> 00:06:01,620 my wife's actually helped me with my schedule in my life, 124 00:06:01,620 --> 00:06:02,280 yeah, which 125 00:06:02,280 --> 00:06:05,220 is she's, she's got her hands full with the with the kids and 126 00:06:05,220 --> 00:06:06,180 the house nowhere. We're 127 00:06:06,180 --> 00:06:09,300 down one kid, you know? She's, she can come off the bench. 128 00:06:09,360 --> 00:06:12,780 There you go, you know? And we have the, she's 129 00:06:12,780 --> 00:06:15,600 always busy making, like, incredible sourdough bread and 130 00:06:15,600 --> 00:06:20,660 dinner for you every night. I mean, as she should, this is, 131 00:06:21,020 --> 00:06:21,620 this is, this 132 00:06:21,620 --> 00:06:23,840 is going great already. This is very 133 00:06:23,840 --> 00:06:24,740 all in the family. 134 00:06:29,600 --> 00:06:32,000 Make sure that she's barefoot, you know, in the kitchen. 135 00:06:32,000 --> 00:06:32,780 Mostly. This 136 00:06:32,780 --> 00:06:35,180 is why we don't have women on the show. We need to have women 137 00:06:35,180 --> 00:06:35,660 on the show. I'm 138 00:06:35,660 --> 00:06:39,500 so happy to be here on the last episode of the 139 00:06:39,620 --> 00:06:43,720 season, the series finale. So, well, Ben was, you know, he's a 140 00:06:43,720 --> 00:06:46,900 very savvy business, business minded young man. And he says, 141 00:06:47,920 --> 00:06:51,040 yeah, what's the goal of the podcast? So these revenue, is 142 00:06:51,040 --> 00:06:55,180 it? What is it? And I said, we don't know. Yes, we just keep 143 00:06:55,180 --> 00:06:58,660 doing it. We just keep doing it, and we're refining it. Okay? We 144 00:06:58,660 --> 00:07:01,920 made it more cash. Now, by the time this comes out, yeah, we're 145 00:07:01,920 --> 00:07:05,940 gonna have merch. We have to call the girl today and approve 146 00:07:05,940 --> 00:07:09,840 the coffee mug and the hoodie and the baseball shirt and male 147 00:07:09,840 --> 00:07:12,420 and female and the sizes, and get this stuff happening. 148 00:07:12,420 --> 00:07:14,760 Because we've only been talking about it for six years. That's 149 00:07:14,760 --> 00:07:15,060 right. You 150 00:07:15,060 --> 00:07:19,980 know, we get 6000 downloads per episode per minute, so 151 00:07:19,980 --> 00:07:21,620 advertisers, let's talk, Jim. 152 00:07:21,620 --> 00:07:24,440 Don't give away our secrets. Man, right. But look at some of 153 00:07:24,440 --> 00:07:28,040 these accomplishments. East End Studio. I like that because West 154 00:07:28,040 --> 00:07:30,560 End, no one has an East End. Yeah. I 155 00:07:30,560 --> 00:07:33,980 put it there because at the time it was the east end of civil 156 00:07:33,980 --> 00:07:35,780 civilization in Nashville, yeah. And 157 00:07:35,780 --> 00:07:39,020 so you officially built it in 2019 and look at these 158 00:07:39,020 --> 00:07:42,520 production credits, man. And usually I'll have to say, I do a 159 00:07:42,520 --> 00:07:45,640 massive deep dive into our guests. But um, this is going on 160 00:07:45,640 --> 00:07:48,340 the to do list. I couldn't get to Spotify to pull up today. 161 00:07:48,520 --> 00:07:50,920 We're talking about AT and T having trouble getting calls 162 00:07:50,920 --> 00:07:54,460 going out. I know what's up. AT T you too. Yeah, yeah. It's 163 00:07:54,460 --> 00:07:57,940 really weird. I've had to power down my phone, turn it back on. 164 00:07:58,060 --> 00:08:02,580 Doesn't matter. What are you Verizon? Horizon. Can you hear 165 00:08:02,580 --> 00:08:03,720 me now? I 166 00:08:03,720 --> 00:08:06,480 think I still can. If we're out here, I'm still working, yeah, 167 00:08:06,780 --> 00:08:07,080 so 168 00:08:07,080 --> 00:08:11,520 sister, Hazel, San C and crash debris. I like that. It's a full 169 00:08:11,520 --> 00:08:13,200 length album. When did that come out? 170 00:08:13,980 --> 00:08:18,360 Uh, into last year. Okay, yeah, so we cut it for it was, it was 171 00:08:18,360 --> 00:08:20,120 about two years that we worked on it, two 172 00:08:20,120 --> 00:08:24,200 years in the making, on and off, on and off. Okay, yeah, and you 173 00:08:24,200 --> 00:08:28,460 got Brian. How do you spread that last name DeVoe, silent s 174 00:08:28,520 --> 00:08:32,000 from nine days. That's the story of the girl. Story of a girl. 175 00:08:32,000 --> 00:08:34,700 Yeah, you know Keith sobroski was in that band. You remember 176 00:08:34,700 --> 00:08:37,400 Keith? I did not know Keith was in that band. He was Miranda's 177 00:08:37,400 --> 00:08:41,200 drummer in the early days. He was in nine days. I did not know 178 00:08:41,200 --> 00:08:46,480 if it was an original member, yeah, but single, beautiful son 179 00:08:46,540 --> 00:08:50,440 was like, was it a triple A radio, modern rock radio thing? 180 00:08:50,440 --> 00:08:54,040 Yeah? 100 Yeah. It was fun to do. It was just me and him that 181 00:08:54,040 --> 00:08:55,840 played everything. Did everything. Okay? So 182 00:08:55,900 --> 00:08:58,780 between you and him, you covered all the instruments. Amazing 183 00:08:59,260 --> 00:09:03,480 indie folk artist, Grace days, maybe American dreaming. You 184 00:09:03,480 --> 00:09:06,300 were the producer and musician mixer. Well, you've always been 185 00:09:06,300 --> 00:09:08,940 a musician at the highest level. Then you started getting into 186 00:09:08,940 --> 00:09:11,640 what would have been next, mixing projects. No producing 187 00:09:11,640 --> 00:09:14,700 first for producing first. And then, instead of passing it off 188 00:09:14,700 --> 00:09:16,620 to a mixer, you said, Let me handle this. 189 00:09:16,680 --> 00:09:19,620 Yeah. Well, somebody said you should handle this, yeah. So 190 00:09:19,620 --> 00:09:22,640 you're not afraid to just dive into the deep end of the pool. 191 00:09:22,640 --> 00:09:26,240 Not anymore, yeah, yeah. I used to be, I mean, that was like, 192 00:09:26,300 --> 00:09:32,840 there was a long time as a musician that doing other stuff 193 00:09:32,840 --> 00:09:37,400 besides what I was already good at, felt like, felt fake, very 194 00:09:37,400 --> 00:09:40,480 impostery, very not, not okay to do. And it was, and I felt like 195 00:09:40,480 --> 00:09:44,380 it was gonna wreck a reputation that I had if somebody sees me 196 00:09:44,380 --> 00:09:46,960 do, do one thing, and, oh, and you confuse the heck out of 197 00:09:46,960 --> 00:09:49,180 people, right? And I was worried about that like, like, there's a 198 00:09:49,180 --> 00:09:52,240 thing that, yeah, it's, you know, the the, for lack of a 199 00:09:52,240 --> 00:09:55,180 better term, the branding of of who you are in your career, 200 00:09:55,180 --> 00:09:57,940 right? Yeah, right. I felt like that mattered a ton. And I've 201 00:09:57,940 --> 00:10:00,960 kind of found out that it, it does. And it doesn't, it's like, 202 00:10:00,960 --> 00:10:04,920 you can't be everything to everybody, yeah, but if you dive 203 00:10:04,920 --> 00:10:07,500 in and get good at something, and you're not afraid to start 204 00:10:07,500 --> 00:10:10,560 over and kind of suck at it for a while, yeah, then you become 205 00:10:10,560 --> 00:10:13,500 that thing for some people. And that's, that's kind of how all 206 00:10:13,500 --> 00:10:14,400 that other 207 00:10:14,400 --> 00:10:16,860 thing for other people, yeah, yeah. I for a while, you know, 208 00:10:16,860 --> 00:10:19,680 when I was kind of going between Nashville and Los Angeles, 209 00:10:19,680 --> 00:10:21,860 people like, do you live in LA or Nashville, I was like, Yes, 210 00:10:21,920 --> 00:10:25,340 right? And they never knew where I was, so they had to always 211 00:10:25,340 --> 00:10:28,520 reach out and find out where I was and if I was available, 212 00:10:28,520 --> 00:10:31,760 yeah, which is good. I always 213 00:10:31,760 --> 00:10:34,040 think it's kind of fun. I mean, in the end, it's like, Well, 214 00:10:34,040 --> 00:10:36,800 wait, are you producing? Are you playing or on the road, right 215 00:10:36,800 --> 00:10:41,920 now, right? Yeah, just reach out, man, the first time, like, 216 00:10:42,340 --> 00:10:45,760 I ended up doing a production, kind of a CO production thing 217 00:10:45,760 --> 00:10:49,300 where I was also engineering, which was way not something I 218 00:10:49,420 --> 00:10:54,520 put out there much like in a commercial studio. Yeah? And I 219 00:10:54,520 --> 00:10:58,480 got the biggest kick out of standing at a console, kind of 220 00:10:58,480 --> 00:11:01,140 trying to get stuff going for the day, yeah, and seeing my 221 00:11:01,140 --> 00:11:03,300 buddies that I've known forever, that I've played with on 222 00:11:03,300 --> 00:11:05,940 sessions, getting sounds on the other side of the glass, and one 223 00:11:05,940 --> 00:11:08,880 of them in particular, just kind of look up at me and just kind 224 00:11:08,880 --> 00:11:11,820 of squint, kind of going like, well, there's a drummer here, 225 00:11:12,480 --> 00:11:15,900 but you're there. Oh, and then just look back down in his 226 00:11:15,900 --> 00:11:18,780 guitar and keep doing his thing. And it's like, yeah, who was 227 00:11:18,780 --> 00:11:19,860 that? Oh, stranger. 228 00:11:20,340 --> 00:11:23,600 Oh nice. Yeah, he was a guy I listened to, you know, there's 229 00:11:23,600 --> 00:11:28,640 that studio musician Academy, yeah, I have listened to every 230 00:11:28,640 --> 00:11:31,700 episode, you know, I really, I've really enjoyed that, you 231 00:11:31,700 --> 00:11:35,480 know, getting in inside baseball insights to all these people 232 00:11:35,480 --> 00:11:37,580 that do the thing every day, sure, you know. 233 00:11:39,620 --> 00:11:42,340 So, yeah, they need to have you on there. Man, 234 00:11:42,400 --> 00:11:46,060 I don't know, those guys love to go on there. Miles, yeah, yeah. 235 00:11:46,060 --> 00:11:47,260 I've listened to his Yeah. 236 00:11:47,380 --> 00:11:54,220 So it also makes you realize how fast these engineers are on big 237 00:11:54,220 --> 00:11:56,920 tracking dates when, say, in a demo session where you got five 238 00:11:56,920 --> 00:11:59,140 songs to do in three hours, so you're at the average song just 239 00:11:59,140 --> 00:12:03,180 every 35 minutes, right? And they have got so many inputs, 240 00:12:03,180 --> 00:12:08,280 and everybody's asking to be punched, and they do it so fast 241 00:12:08,700 --> 00:12:11,940 that is, like, I don't know if I could ever it's time in the 242 00:12:11,940 --> 00:12:12,840 trenches, obviously, 243 00:12:12,840 --> 00:12:15,540 yeah. And I did a lot of that, like the Pro Tools, part of it, 244 00:12:15,540 --> 00:12:18,300 keeping up that way. Yeah, I did a lot of it on busses, like I 245 00:12:18,300 --> 00:12:20,460 did, which, you know, you're not punching people in on busses, 246 00:12:20,460 --> 00:12:22,500 but you're doing all this editing and learning all your 247 00:12:22,500 --> 00:12:25,280 shortcuts. Yes, and I was doing that in the front lounge of 248 00:12:25,280 --> 00:12:28,880 busses while I was still kind of going in and out on weekends and 249 00:12:28,880 --> 00:12:31,760 subbing, sub dates and all that stuff, and getting getting to 250 00:12:31,760 --> 00:12:32,660 where I could so how did 251 00:12:32,660 --> 00:12:35,840 you get yourself these DAWs Pro Tools and Ableton, is it like 252 00:12:35,840 --> 00:12:38,360 pulling up YouTube University kind of a thing? No, 253 00:12:38,360 --> 00:12:41,800 I mean, I didn't. Then I do that stuff now a lot. I'm a YouTube 254 00:12:41,800 --> 00:12:45,400 junkie now, but at the time, and I don't even know if I how, 255 00:12:45,400 --> 00:12:49,300 well, I remember how I taught myself Pro Tools, but I, you 256 00:12:49,300 --> 00:12:53,200 know, I had come up doing some of that stuff even in high 257 00:12:53,200 --> 00:12:55,840 school, playing with like cake walk and Sound Forge and stuff 258 00:12:55,840 --> 00:12:56,200 that was 259 00:12:56,200 --> 00:12:58,360 out in the late 90s, right? Yeah, yes. I never played 260 00:12:58,360 --> 00:13:00,720 software audio workshops. Saw, Oh, 261 00:13:00,720 --> 00:13:03,780 I never did, but yeah, I know I knew about it, cue based, yes, 262 00:13:03,780 --> 00:13:06,120 and I never used that. That still exists, apparently, but, 263 00:13:06,360 --> 00:13:08,820 but I had done that, and I put all that down when I went to 264 00:13:08,820 --> 00:13:11,760 school and was just focused on the music thing and for years 265 00:13:11,760 --> 00:13:13,920 and touring and all that, and when it came back around, there 266 00:13:13,920 --> 00:13:17,040 was enough familiarity, plus I did all the Ableton stuff, you 267 00:13:17,040 --> 00:13:18,180 know, for the road. Okay, 268 00:13:18,180 --> 00:13:20,900 so now that's another skill set that a lot of people like to 269 00:13:20,900 --> 00:13:23,540 tout, and it's a great way to, like, have a side hustle or 270 00:13:23,540 --> 00:13:26,840 monetize. I mean, Matt Payne has that amazing, yeah, he was one 271 00:13:26,840 --> 00:13:32,480 of my first guests on the show. And he has, I forget the name of 272 00:13:32,480 --> 00:13:34,880 the company, but I know that Jeff Marino probably works with 273 00:13:34,880 --> 00:13:38,660 him a little bit, you know, Darius Rutgers drummer, right? 274 00:13:38,900 --> 00:13:43,540 And they put these giant shows together for people and the 275 00:13:43,540 --> 00:13:46,240 tracks and everything, so you have that skill set. Yeah, you 276 00:13:46,240 --> 00:13:49,060 did that for a lot of people, like even Gary Allen, right. 277 00:13:49,060 --> 00:13:52,540 I did it for Gary Allen. I did it for Houser for a long time. I 278 00:13:52,540 --> 00:13:56,680 did it for Steven Tyler solo thing. Oh, wow. And my rigs were 279 00:13:56,680 --> 00:13:59,500 not as intricate as some of the stuff that's especially going on 280 00:13:59,500 --> 00:14:03,060 now, yeah, but I got it. It was part of the getting the tip. And 281 00:14:03,060 --> 00:14:06,600 gig is they were moving from, this is what, oh eight. They 282 00:14:06,600 --> 00:14:11,100 were moving from a like, task cam, you know, port, a studio 283 00:14:11,100 --> 00:14:14,580 for track, for to run their backing tracks. Ouch. When I was 284 00:14:14,580 --> 00:14:17,280 auditioning for the gig, like we were supposed to use a laptop, 285 00:14:17,280 --> 00:14:19,500 and they say it's good on Mac. Do you know how to use that? 286 00:14:19,500 --> 00:14:23,000 Said, sure. You know how to build track rig? Absolutely. You 287 00:14:23,000 --> 00:14:23,180 made 288 00:14:23,180 --> 00:14:25,340 yourself so valuable. I had no idea how to do 289 00:14:25,820 --> 00:14:27,200 it. Oh, you said, Yes. Then 290 00:14:27,200 --> 00:14:30,440 you faked it. And I called, I called Riley because he was 291 00:14:30,440 --> 00:14:33,260 doing it with the flats, and I knew they were using Ableton. I 292 00:14:33,260 --> 00:14:36,020 said, Hey, how do you guys do this? And this is what we use. I 293 00:14:36,680 --> 00:14:39,080 don't know a whole lot else. And I just dove in and figured it 294 00:14:39,680 --> 00:14:41,980 out. Wow. What do you think they're gonna think when they 295 00:14:41,980 --> 00:14:45,280 hear this? What depends guys, yeah, they're like, Oh, you 296 00:14:45,280 --> 00:14:47,680 didn't you. You completely misled us. Oh 297 00:14:47,740 --> 00:14:51,880 no, they they've been told, yeah, okay, you came through. 298 00:14:52,180 --> 00:14:55,480 Yeah, it worked out fine. And at the time, that wasn't such a 299 00:14:55,480 --> 00:14:59,920 prevalent thing on like, mid level touring acts, middle of. 300 00:15:00,000 --> 00:15:03,480 The middle of the bill acts, yeah. And so we'd go out and 301 00:15:03,480 --> 00:15:06,000 play these festivals, and people would ask, you know, hey, who 302 00:15:06,000 --> 00:15:09,540 built the rig? Me, Oh, I did. Doesn't everybody have to do 303 00:15:09,540 --> 00:15:11,700 their own because that's what I thought. That's why I was on the 304 00:15:11,700 --> 00:15:15,300 guy. No. So I did like some work for with Tracy Broussard, for 305 00:15:15,300 --> 00:15:19,260 Shelton, and I can't remember all of them now, but yeah, they 306 00:15:19,260 --> 00:15:20,720 just kind of would come in. So you're, 307 00:15:20,960 --> 00:15:23,840 you became a kind of a go to guy for that, and will you still do 308 00:15:23,840 --> 00:15:24,560 it, knock it out 309 00:15:24,680 --> 00:15:27,500 very rarely, like, I actually grew to really dislike it, 310 00:15:27,680 --> 00:15:31,100 because it's if you're not going to do what Matt does, where it's 311 00:15:31,100 --> 00:15:33,860 like a full service thing that you're really building out to do 312 00:15:33,860 --> 00:15:38,240 that. The the downside of of doing something like that is 313 00:15:38,240 --> 00:15:41,860 you've got to be willing to kind of be on call when they have 314 00:15:41,860 --> 00:15:44,800 issues on the road, yeah, and in the studio on the middle of a 315 00:15:44,800 --> 00:15:47,800 session, I can't, can't help you, if you're on the deck for a 316 00:15:47,800 --> 00:15:51,340 festival on a Thursday and something's not working. 317 00:15:51,520 --> 00:15:54,040 So Matt, a team of people that are available kind 318 00:15:54,040 --> 00:15:57,220 of okay, I would think so, you know. And now probably it's been 319 00:15:57,220 --> 00:16:00,780 a long time since I've done them, I would imagine now the 320 00:16:01,440 --> 00:16:06,360 the band leader, the guys on the road know way more about that, 321 00:16:06,420 --> 00:16:09,120 then it's not as new as it was when I was doing, yeah, because 322 00:16:09,120 --> 00:16:09,300 when 323 00:16:09,300 --> 00:16:11,580 I had the sub for like, Mark POIs, you know, and he had to go 324 00:16:11,580 --> 00:16:16,740 get married. I, you know, he's like, Hey, man, here's the SPD, 325 00:16:16,740 --> 00:16:19,920 SX. This is how you forward to the next track. This is how you 326 00:16:19,920 --> 00:16:23,180 started. This how you stop it? If Tyler is going to extend this 327 00:16:23,180 --> 00:16:25,520 section, hit this thing, then you got to get out of it. And it 328 00:16:25,520 --> 00:16:27,980 was like, I had to, you know, work that stuff to orchestrate 329 00:16:27,980 --> 00:16:29,060 right into my DM 330 00:16:29,060 --> 00:16:31,040 for drummers that have done that, like, because Nashville, 331 00:16:31,040 --> 00:16:35,420 the drummers almost always fire that stuff. Yeah, it's like, 332 00:16:35,420 --> 00:16:38,600 that's the that's half of learning the gig. It's not just 333 00:16:38,600 --> 00:16:42,760 the learning the tunes. It's learning how to play and play 334 00:16:42,760 --> 00:16:44,440 that thing. Yeah, and, and, 335 00:16:44,620 --> 00:16:46,780 but are you? Are you? Are you signaling it while you're 336 00:16:46,780 --> 00:16:48,700 playing? Or you just start stopping? It 337 00:16:48,700 --> 00:16:52,420 depends on the rig. But a lot of people would have, you know, 338 00:16:52,420 --> 00:16:54,700 something would run for a certain amount of time, and then 339 00:16:54,700 --> 00:16:56,980 you trigger the next section. Or you it would go to the bridge 340 00:16:56,980 --> 00:16:59,200 and loop the bridge, and then you'd trigger out of it. And so, 341 00:16:59,200 --> 00:17:01,480 yeah, there's a lot of and it depends on, again, the artist. 342 00:17:01,480 --> 00:17:04,440 There's a couple artists there's a couple artists that I won't 343 00:17:04,440 --> 00:17:07,020 name, that really didn't like they wanted the tracks, but they 344 00:17:07,020 --> 00:17:10,080 didn't want to be constricted by the tracks, and the drummers 345 00:17:10,080 --> 00:17:12,240 were just chasing them all over the place all the time, you 346 00:17:12,240 --> 00:17:14,700 know? And so it's just really dependent on the gig. 347 00:17:14,700 --> 00:17:18,060 Yeah, Harry, Harry Myrie got really exceptionally good at it, 348 00:17:18,060 --> 00:17:22,400 too, I believe, on a couple of his gigs that he had. And, you 349 00:17:22,400 --> 00:17:25,220 know, I, I don't want to sound like the old, you know, get off 350 00:17:25,220 --> 00:17:27,980 my long guy. But I mean, there's a lot of legacy acts that 351 00:17:29,720 --> 00:17:31,880 there's, there's no there's no tracks. Yeah, you know what I 352 00:17:31,880 --> 00:17:35,420 mean, very basic, no tracks on seekers gig, that's right. So, 353 00:17:35,480 --> 00:17:39,380 did you get to visit with Don Brewer? A ton, yeah. Nice. Cat. 354 00:17:39,440 --> 00:17:42,520 Great. So, so Jim Don Brewer was the drummer with 355 00:17:43,900 --> 00:17:49,720 Grand Funk. Real 356 00:17:50,680 --> 00:17:54,100 nice. Really? Wrote that song too. I believe he wrote it so 357 00:17:54,100 --> 00:17:56,920 you need more cowbell. So he goes to the mailbox Like Bill 358 00:17:56,920 --> 00:17:59,560 Gibson all the time. Does he to collect a check? How 359 00:18:00,580 --> 00:18:02,100 many other songs did they have 360 00:18:02,640 --> 00:18:05,880 some kind of wonderful is that that's right, but that wasn't 361 00:18:05,880 --> 00:18:08,760 theirs, though. That was a cover, right? That was a cover, 362 00:18:10,620 --> 00:18:13,200 but that was a song from the 60s. I want to say there's 363 00:18:13,200 --> 00:18:16,140 another one I'm getting. I'm getting closer to my home. 364 00:18:17,700 --> 00:18:21,080 That's right, nice. That's a good one. Very eerie and 365 00:18:21,080 --> 00:18:24,800 mystical. Yes. Great drummer. Yeah. We played all those had 366 00:18:24,800 --> 00:18:26,120 some big hair back in the 367 00:18:26,120 --> 00:18:30,080 day. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Big old Tommy Aldridge, that's 368 00:18:30,080 --> 00:18:33,680 what I love about obviously, you had a preference. You know, 369 00:18:33,680 --> 00:18:37,400 you're a family man, you know, you work the road, but then 370 00:18:37,400 --> 00:18:39,740 you're like, No, I'm gonna build a studio, I'm gonna produce, I'm 371 00:18:39,740 --> 00:18:42,580 gonna do sessions, I'm gonna stay home. Did you enjoy it when 372 00:18:42,580 --> 00:18:46,120 you did it, or do you miss it? No, 373 00:18:48,880 --> 00:18:50,680 you're good on the barbecue. I don't. 374 00:18:50,680 --> 00:18:52,900 Yeah, I don't, yeah, exactly. The best barbecue you've ever 375 00:18:52,900 --> 00:18:57,340 had every day. I love, I loved doing the road, and I still like 376 00:18:57,340 --> 00:18:59,740 going out. I go out a couple times with hazel a year, usually 377 00:18:59,740 --> 00:19:02,520 for Mark, and that's, that's, that's more like a, it's more 378 00:19:02,520 --> 00:19:06,840 like going out of town to see your uncles and cousins and 379 00:19:06,840 --> 00:19:11,220 buddies now, like they were so close. But yeah, it's a I liked. 380 00:19:11,460 --> 00:19:15,180 I loved playing on the road, and I love learning stuff. I didn't 381 00:19:15,180 --> 00:19:18,000 love sitting around as much as you sit around on the road. 382 00:19:18,120 --> 00:19:20,720 Yeah, I really wanted to be actively involved in making 383 00:19:20,720 --> 00:19:24,920 music a lot of the time. And I think the production thing for 384 00:19:24,920 --> 00:19:27,800 me was kind of twofold. It was one of one, one of the reasons I 385 00:19:27,800 --> 00:19:32,300 did it was because I really wanted to be more involved in 386 00:19:32,300 --> 00:19:36,440 the creative process of record making. And I had done enough 387 00:19:36,440 --> 00:19:39,200 demo sessions to know that that wasn't really what you did as a 388 00:19:39,380 --> 00:19:42,100 session player so much you're more, more of a you're in 389 00:19:42,100 --> 00:19:45,520 service to that production team, you know, which is great, yeah. 390 00:19:45,640 --> 00:19:50,920 But, and, and opportunity, there was a, and I just talked to 391 00:19:50,920 --> 00:19:53,620 Justin shipper steel player about this not long ago on a 392 00:19:53,620 --> 00:19:56,200 session, because he, he kind of made a pivot from guitar to 393 00:19:56,200 --> 00:19:59,260 steel. That's worked out okay for him. I think he's done 394 00:19:59,260 --> 00:20:04,740 pretty good. Yeah. Uh, recognizing sort of when, when 395 00:20:04,740 --> 00:20:09,120 there's a an availability for something else that you do, and 396 00:20:09,120 --> 00:20:11,460 do you want to, you know, I could have kept on the road and 397 00:20:11,460 --> 00:20:13,680 stayed and played drums and tried to work my way into 398 00:20:13,680 --> 00:20:17,580 sessions that way forever, or I wanted to be in studios and 399 00:20:17,580 --> 00:20:21,620 making records sooner. And this there was, there's more of an 400 00:20:21,620 --> 00:20:23,420 open door over here, and so I went through it, 401 00:20:23,780 --> 00:20:25,460 you saw the door open. And 402 00:20:25,820 --> 00:20:29,960 it seems like a lot of drummers do that, you know, Tom Reeves 403 00:20:30,260 --> 00:20:34,940 quit, totally, yeah, yeah. Well, not quit, but they become 404 00:20:35,000 --> 00:20:39,980 octopi, you know, we're, I was, you know, me being a drummer 405 00:20:39,980 --> 00:20:42,640 coming up and having that kind of an identity throughout my 406 00:20:42,640 --> 00:20:47,020 teenage years, and then getting into radio learning, you know, 407 00:20:47,020 --> 00:20:49,540 multi track production and things like that, eventually 408 00:20:49,540 --> 00:20:53,140 getting into video production. It just seems those skill sets 409 00:20:53,380 --> 00:20:55,960 just make sense for us. For some reason, I agree. I see that a 410 00:20:55,960 --> 00:20:59,920 lot getting behind the radio board and flying faders and, you 411 00:20:59,920 --> 00:21:03,180 know, pulling carts and firing things off as you're talking, 412 00:21:03,180 --> 00:21:04,980 that's a that's a skill. It's all percussion. 413 00:21:05,100 --> 00:21:07,320 Did you do it on purpose? Because I didn't necessarily 414 00:21:07,320 --> 00:21:09,180 know I was doing it. I just 415 00:21:11,280 --> 00:21:15,900 always knew that it's like when I saw when I first got into a 416 00:21:15,900 --> 00:21:18,600 radio production studio in Connecticut, at the home of rock 417 00:21:18,600 --> 00:21:22,760 and roll. That's where we 95 all the Grand Funk Railroad tunes. 418 00:21:23,480 --> 00:21:27,140 The production director, at the time, he had the job I wanted. I 419 00:21:27,140 --> 00:21:30,560 saw what he did, sitting in the production studio and putting 420 00:21:30,560 --> 00:21:33,260 all these things together. And it was the first time I heard a 421 00:21:33,260 --> 00:21:35,960 radio station imaging voice without all the stuff around it, 422 00:21:35,960 --> 00:21:38,780 like just the raw track. And I was going, and I remember, 423 00:21:38,960 --> 00:21:42,460 that's actually a real guy that it just dawned on me. I was 424 00:21:42,460 --> 00:21:45,520 like, 22 years old, 23 years old, going, Holy crap. I never 425 00:21:45,520 --> 00:21:48,520 thought about it. That's, that's a real person, dude. He paid 426 00:21:48,520 --> 00:21:52,480 taxes, right? Yeah, and he's got this big voice in the home of 427 00:21:52,480 --> 00:21:55,480 rock and roll. I know, you know, he's the big imaging voice. And 428 00:21:55,480 --> 00:21:58,300 he would always the guy who's, his name was rich Conway. He 429 00:21:58,300 --> 00:22:01,200 would sit in the studio and was like, it was like, Candy Land, 430 00:22:01,320 --> 00:22:04,560 yeah, you know, sound effects and zip zaps and booms and 431 00:22:04,560 --> 00:22:06,960 explosions and all these different things. And I was 432 00:22:06,960 --> 00:22:11,640 like, This is me, you know, I was either gonna go into radio 433 00:22:11,820 --> 00:22:15,060 or I was gonna go, Dude, how if I this happened, you and I would 434 00:22:15,060 --> 00:22:17,820 probably would never have met, no, you'd be so ingrained in 435 00:22:17,820 --> 00:22:21,800 radio. I was in rate, but I went into radio thinking I wanted to 436 00:22:21,800 --> 00:22:25,220 go into ESPN. Did you know that? Well, it's a Connecticut 437 00:22:25,220 --> 00:22:27,860 company. Yeah, it was in Bristol. Yeah, I was at my 438 00:22:27,860 --> 00:22:30,140 holdout. Was like, well, I'll hang out in radio for a bit 439 00:22:30,140 --> 00:22:31,160 until they're hiring up in 440 00:22:31,160 --> 00:22:34,220 Britain. Did you know Did you know enough about sports no 441 00:22:34,220 --> 00:22:37,280 sports ball, you don't really need to no no. So I basically 442 00:22:37,280 --> 00:22:39,500 you have to have an opinion. It's like, you sound like you're 443 00:22:39,500 --> 00:22:42,940 like, when you're a news anchor, you really do. It's not like 444 00:22:42,940 --> 00:22:45,700 you're just reading copy. You do have to have somewhat of an 445 00:22:45,700 --> 00:22:47,080 opinion, possibly, 446 00:22:47,200 --> 00:22:49,360 yeah, well, it used to not be that way, but that's a whole 447 00:22:49,360 --> 00:22:54,700 separate topic. When I saw the control room for live 448 00:22:54,700 --> 00:22:58,660 television, and you saw the guy, I can't remember what role he 449 00:22:58,660 --> 00:23:02,160 had, but he was like, you know, you know. Okay, ready was, 450 00:23:02,160 --> 00:23:05,640 camera two goes. Camera two. Ready? You know, I'm like, I 451 00:23:05,640 --> 00:23:06,180 could totally 452 00:23:06,180 --> 00:23:09,540 do that. Now, the dudes at Moo TV do it in a different city 453 00:23:09,540 --> 00:23:14,640 every day. They set up their mobile TV production facility. 454 00:23:14,640 --> 00:23:17,820 You know what? I mean, they take turns doing the show. You do the 455 00:23:17,820 --> 00:23:19,920 opener tonight, I'll do the headliner. And they take turns 456 00:23:19,920 --> 00:23:22,280 and they Hey, you jump on camera tonight, then these guys are 457 00:23:22,280 --> 00:23:23,420 carrying the big cameras around. 458 00:23:23,600 --> 00:23:26,600 It's just, it's just anything like anything else got processes 459 00:23:26,600 --> 00:23:29,420 and procedures and systems and all that systems and processes. 460 00:23:29,420 --> 00:23:32,300 But I knew that when I saw like he was working on something 461 00:23:32,300 --> 00:23:36,320 called the Fostex Foundation, 2000 Wow. And it was a, 462 00:23:37,280 --> 00:23:40,600 basically a four track mixer, but it was eight mono tracks 463 00:23:40,600 --> 00:23:43,900 that you pan to left and right, yeah? And I figured that out, 464 00:23:43,900 --> 00:23:47,620 you know, touch screen, all that stuff, yeah, scrub wheel. It was 465 00:23:47,620 --> 00:23:48,220 really cool. 466 00:23:48,220 --> 00:23:51,160 It's like being a drum channel, which is in Oxnard, is like a 467 00:23:51,160 --> 00:23:54,160 real TV production facility, right? Yeah? I mean, with jibs 468 00:23:54,160 --> 00:23:56,560 and a producer and guys with headsets, that's the 469 00:23:56,560 --> 00:23:59,380 same area as drum. Drum you or is drumeo different? 470 00:23:59,380 --> 00:24:03,660 Oh, no, don't say that. No, drama O's is the Canadian 471 00:24:03,660 --> 00:24:07,320 conglomerate now muzzora, because they've got guitaro, 472 00:24:07,320 --> 00:24:11,460 they've got basio, they've got, they got, they got, they're so 473 00:24:11,460 --> 00:24:14,280 smart they expanded. Hey, Jim, do me a favor. Bring my overall 474 00:24:14,280 --> 00:24:17,220 volume down. If you can just a little bit. Just talk quieter. 475 00:24:17,580 --> 00:24:18,600 What? What? 476 00:24:21,420 --> 00:24:22,700 Like, that's in the recipe. We've 477 00:24:22,700 --> 00:24:23,900 got, we've got some tic tac, you 478 00:24:26,180 --> 00:24:29,240 know, it's funny. Getting back to this doesn't really work. 479 00:24:29,240 --> 00:24:29,660 Let's see. Oh, 480 00:24:31,340 --> 00:24:34,400 we've got checks mix flying everywhere, guys. But that's the 481 00:24:34,400 --> 00:24:36,920 beautiful thing about about percussion, is that everything's 482 00:24:36,920 --> 00:24:41,800 a percussion that the chain. You could change the sound, no, by 483 00:24:41,800 --> 00:24:44,080 eating some of these. Well, you know what I thought about doing? 484 00:24:44,440 --> 00:24:49,180 I really thought about becoming a DJ, yeah? DJ, you would have 485 00:24:49,180 --> 00:24:52,060 been a great DJ. DJ, Redman, I mean, I can still do it, because 486 00:24:52,060 --> 00:24:53,740 I watched some people do it. I'm like, No, aren't 487 00:24:53,740 --> 00:24:57,460 you kind of doing that with your own right? Podcast? Well, 488 00:24:57,760 --> 00:25:00,420 I want to, you want to do the what do? No, 489 00:25:00,480 --> 00:25:04,980 we know not like, not like, quest love, like artistic DJing 490 00:25:04,980 --> 00:25:08,040 with vinyl. I'm talking about coming in with the bare minimum. 491 00:25:08,040 --> 00:25:10,860 You got your two laptops, you guys, you got your thumb drive, 492 00:25:10,860 --> 00:25:12,840 you guys, you got your little walk out, walk out of thing 493 00:25:12,840 --> 00:25:15,300 there. You got your microphone. You introduced the bride and the 494 00:25:15,300 --> 00:25:17,700 groom say, like, weddings, bar mitzvahs, parties, give me my 495 00:25:17,700 --> 00:25:20,720 give me my 10 grand. And then I'm incorporating a grant, dude. 496 00:25:20,720 --> 00:25:23,540 I'm incorporating my rolling pads and percussion zip code. Is 497 00:25:23,540 --> 00:25:23,660 he 498 00:25:23,660 --> 00:25:27,140 doing these parties? I know. Man, they're probably DJs out 499 00:25:27,140 --> 00:25:29,120 there going, where are you gonna get 10 No, 500 00:25:29,120 --> 00:25:33,380 I'm telling you, that's what that what a good wedding DJ. 501 00:25:33,380 --> 00:25:40,780 Makes sense. 10 grand, really? Yeah, I don't know. That's what 502 00:25:40,780 --> 00:25:45,520 I'm asking for. Actually, I actually, actually have a, have 503 00:25:45,520 --> 00:25:47,920 a student from my first drummers weekend, right? 504 00:25:48,940 --> 00:25:51,640 That's where I'm starting at this. I'm not, 505 00:25:52,300 --> 00:25:55,780 I'm not gonna say names, but we got to catch up. And he was 506 00:25:55,780 --> 00:25:59,140 telling me the ins and outs of being a DJ. And he does. He's a 507 00:25:59,140 --> 00:26:03,420 drummer first, but he makes a great living as a wedding and 508 00:26:03,420 --> 00:26:07,320 corporate DJ. And I'm telling you the numbers 10 grand. 509 00:26:07,680 --> 00:26:10,080 Well, I mean, I guess if you were to come up with a program 510 00:26:10,080 --> 00:26:13,980 where you, you did put percussive implements in there 511 00:26:13,980 --> 00:26:17,220 and stuff like that, and you got the audience involved with 512 00:26:17,220 --> 00:26:18,600 tambourines. And, yeah, you 513 00:26:18,600 --> 00:26:20,880 could bring, like, a basket of percussion stuff, yeah, 514 00:26:21,600 --> 00:26:22,580 interactive DJ, 515 00:26:22,580 --> 00:26:26,660 dude, let's, let's do it, pass it out. Yeah, I'm not doing any 516 00:26:26,660 --> 00:26:29,300 of the heavy lifting. I'm just gonna show up and cheer you on. 517 00:26:29,300 --> 00:26:29,660 That's the 518 00:26:29,780 --> 00:26:34,400 beautiful thing is, you don't have to have, you don't have to 519 00:26:34,400 --> 00:26:38,720 bring in buckets of LPs anymore, like baskets and baskets of LPs. 520 00:26:39,260 --> 00:26:43,600 It's all, well, I bet you didn't know that this is where this 521 00:26:43,660 --> 00:26:44,140 interview I 522 00:26:44,140 --> 00:26:46,180 was going. I knew it's going somewhere. We 523 00:26:46,180 --> 00:26:50,260 have just a casual, free flowing conversation, yeah, who were? 524 00:26:50,380 --> 00:26:52,900 How did you? How did you get into, like, really quickly, 525 00:26:52,900 --> 00:26:55,660 doesn't have to be your you know, Marvel orange story, 526 00:26:56,020 --> 00:26:59,320 origin story. But how did it all when did you start playing? 527 00:27:00,220 --> 00:27:00,900 I think I was 528 00:27:02,340 --> 00:27:03,780 10 or 11, yeah, so, so just 529 00:27:03,780 --> 00:27:05,580 started hitting, hitting everything in sight. 530 00:27:05,700 --> 00:27:09,720 No, I wanted to play my my grandfather. Short version of 531 00:27:09,720 --> 00:27:13,080 the story is my dad's dad passed away. He had a couple guitars 532 00:27:13,140 --> 00:27:16,080 that he didn't know how to play, that we inherited, and I was at 533 00:27:16,080 --> 00:27:20,100 the age where that looked really cool. And then I saw a buddy 534 00:27:20,280 --> 00:27:24,020 playing drums, and somehow I just took a left turn, and 535 00:27:24,020 --> 00:27:26,420 that's, that's where it was. But it was about playing rock and 536 00:27:26,420 --> 00:27:29,480 roll. And, yeah, you know, not, not, not a classical guy to 537 00:27:29,480 --> 00:27:29,780 start 538 00:27:29,780 --> 00:27:32,240 with. What was, okay? So for me, like, you know, 1983 539 00:27:34,940 --> 00:27:39,800 MTV, Martha Quinn, I love her. Um, wouldn't 540 00:27:39,920 --> 00:27:41,200 a 1981 for you. 541 00:27:41,980 --> 00:27:45,220 Okay, so 81 Yeah, leading, that's how it was for me. Yeah, 542 00:27:45,280 --> 00:27:50,200 81 you're right. So what was it for you? Because your 543 00:27:50,200 --> 00:27:52,480 generation, plus, yeah, 544 00:27:54,160 --> 00:27:55,780 and like, you must have been born 8583 545 00:27:57,220 --> 00:28:01,560 8183 sounds like by the time I started playing. It was, it was, 546 00:28:01,740 --> 00:28:04,500 you know, the Smashing Pumpkins and the wall flowers and Dave 547 00:28:04,500 --> 00:28:07,380 Matthews Band. Oh yeah, you know, all the, all the 90s 548 00:28:07,380 --> 00:28:10,860 stuff, and half the people on that list over there that I've 549 00:28:10,860 --> 00:28:14,040 worked with now, but yeah, yes, yeah, they were all 550 00:28:16,140 --> 00:28:21,800 on the radio. Yeah, I got to spend a day with him. He's just 551 00:28:21,800 --> 00:28:23,180 a very nice, approachable guy, man, 552 00:28:23,180 --> 00:28:25,520 that's what I hear. Stitzel knows him rich, you know, 553 00:28:25,520 --> 00:28:28,160 because they're both Chicago guys, yeah and yeah, he's, I've 554 00:28:28,160 --> 00:28:30,920 never met him, but he was my he was probably one of my first 555 00:28:30,920 --> 00:28:32,180 drumming heroes, him and Carter, 556 00:28:32,180 --> 00:28:35,540 I guess. Yeah, he got, I think he got into tech, yeah, time 557 00:28:35,540 --> 00:28:38,000 take your money, put it into tech. If you're listening to 558 00:28:38,000 --> 00:28:40,540 this podcast, it means you're already looking to improve your 559 00:28:40,540 --> 00:28:44,500 drumming. Why not level it up? In person with me, when you book 560 00:28:44,500 --> 00:28:47,800 a one on one day, drum, tense drummers from around the world 561 00:28:47,800 --> 00:28:50,620 have traveled to Nashville to study with me. We cover subjects 562 00:28:50,620 --> 00:28:53,740 like reading, rudiments, technique, hand development, 563 00:28:53,740 --> 00:28:56,620 charting the national number system, styles, percussion, 564 00:28:56,680 --> 00:29:00,600 music, biz, insider info, career development, positive mindset 565 00:29:00,660 --> 00:29:03,960 and much more. Of course, we address all your questions, and 566 00:29:03,960 --> 00:29:07,320 my deep curriculum has helped players of all kinds move the 567 00:29:07,320 --> 00:29:10,500 ball down the field to be closer to their goals, even getting 568 00:29:10,500 --> 00:29:13,560 accepted to college music programs, moving to that dream 569 00:29:13,560 --> 00:29:17,640 music town, getting gigs and keeping them. Find out more 570 00:29:17,640 --> 00:29:21,800 about my one on one day, drum tensive go to drumtensive.com. 571 00:29:22,880 --> 00:29:30,140 D, R, U, m, t, e, n, s, i, v, e.com. Drum tensive.com. 572 00:29:32,120 --> 00:29:34,760 Jim's got his big book, Bitcoin. You have a whole Bitcoin, but, 573 00:29:35,360 --> 00:29:37,400 yeah, let's tell the world that that's fine. Okay, 574 00:29:38,660 --> 00:29:41,920 get the whole the whole Bitcoin. Yeah, it's nice, 575 00:29:42,040 --> 00:29:46,540 but I got an early so then I'm hodling, as they say, you hold 576 00:29:46,540 --> 00:29:50,380 the kids say, actually it is a, I guess it was a misspelling, 577 00:29:51,160 --> 00:29:56,320 but in the Bitcoin unit, the bit the bitty verse, I would say 578 00:29:56,320 --> 00:30:00,180 it's, yeah, they say it's hodling, holding on for. Your 579 00:30:00,180 --> 00:30:05,460 Life? Oh, yeah, yeah, because Bitcoin is so volatile. Yeah, 580 00:30:05,460 --> 00:30:08,640 there are days, there are weeks that I've lost $40,000 but 581 00:30:08,760 --> 00:30:11,760 then it comes back up. It's got to keep the faith. It's day to 582 00:30:11,760 --> 00:30:15,840 day. Could be so are you gonna get, are you gonna get into any 583 00:30:15,840 --> 00:30:16,140 of that? 584 00:30:16,140 --> 00:30:19,200 That's not my thing, man, my wife's a tax accountant. She's 585 00:30:19,200 --> 00:30:21,620 all about the safe investments. You know, safe, yeah, 586 00:30:22,040 --> 00:30:22,820 lower value. 587 00:30:23,480 --> 00:30:25,580 Well, you guys are younger, so you can go a little bit more 588 00:30:25,580 --> 00:30:27,200 aggressive, yeah, yeah, yeah, we 589 00:30:27,200 --> 00:30:29,120 can still take the risks. Nice. She's 590 00:30:29,120 --> 00:30:31,880 a tax accountant. Yeah, she's 591 00:30:33,200 --> 00:30:34,940 taking on new clients. No, 592 00:30:35,120 --> 00:30:37,940 why not she? She works for the business management on 593 00:30:38,240 --> 00:30:40,600 the firm. Does she we know where she works, and everything, yeah, 594 00:30:41,440 --> 00:30:42,220 amazing. Because, 595 00:30:42,220 --> 00:30:45,460 I mean, they're in demand right now. Yeah, yeah. It's they may 596 00:30:45,460 --> 00:30:48,940 not be in demand if the IRS goes away, which I pray for the day 597 00:30:48,940 --> 00:30:49,600 that comes. It 598 00:30:49,600 --> 00:30:52,240 wouldn't be nice to save that amount of money in taxes every 599 00:30:52,240 --> 00:30:54,340 year. Oh, god. What would you do with it? You could do home 600 00:30:54,340 --> 00:30:56,140 improvements. You could stick it in your IRA 601 00:30:56,140 --> 00:30:59,260 and imagine the economy that's taken off and rip roaring, 602 00:30:59,260 --> 00:31:02,220 because I have to worry about freaking April 14, but I think 603 00:31:02,220 --> 00:31:04,500 it would be, you want to go on my IRS tirade again? I will. I 604 00:31:04,500 --> 00:31:05,100 think it'd be 605 00:31:05,100 --> 00:31:08,400 sometime before that actually happens where we abolish taxes. 606 00:31:08,400 --> 00:31:09,780 It's good. It's not going to 607 00:31:09,780 --> 00:31:12,420 be, we're not abolishing taxes. We're just changing the 608 00:31:12,420 --> 00:31:14,580 framework of how we get the taxes. 609 00:31:14,580 --> 00:31:17,220 I know, but I think it's going to be some time. I don't know. 610 00:31:17,220 --> 00:31:18,660 Even with the best joke of 611 00:31:18,780 --> 00:31:21,020 a of a pen man, he's me. He's making changes with that 612 00:31:21,020 --> 00:31:23,780 executive those executive orders pretty quickly. He 613 00:31:23,780 --> 00:31:25,280 you're talking about anyway, 614 00:31:27,680 --> 00:31:30,440 man, that day comes, it's going to be a, it's going to be a, 615 00:31:30,500 --> 00:31:35,000 make it a national flipping holiday. I cannot stand income 616 00:31:35,000 --> 00:31:37,400 taxes or property taxes. Close 617 00:31:37,400 --> 00:31:41,800 to, this is close to Jim's heart. I mean, who wants it? I 618 00:31:41,800 --> 00:31:44,260 mean, you want, you do want to have highways and infrastructure 619 00:31:44,260 --> 00:31:44,560 and all 620 00:31:44,560 --> 00:31:46,960 this stuff. I'm not saying that, but that's where people go off 621 00:31:46,960 --> 00:31:49,060 the rails. They think that's what I'm saying. That's not what 622 00:31:49,060 --> 00:31:52,540 I'm saying. No, no, there are other ways to collect taxes that 623 00:31:52,540 --> 00:31:57,700 are not, you know, intimidating and based on intimidation 624 00:31:57,700 --> 00:32:01,020 tactics. I did this on my own podcast with Mercurio. I said 625 00:32:01,020 --> 00:32:05,040 the actual freaking font of the IRS is designed to make you feel 626 00:32:05,040 --> 00:32:06,120 intimidated. It's the 627 00:32:06,120 --> 00:32:08,940 intimidation font, right? Wonder who get that gig? Like the font 628 00:32:08,940 --> 00:32:09,840 selection. Dude, 629 00:32:09,840 --> 00:32:12,840 dude. Every font has a voice. Yeah, you ever relaxed? Like, 630 00:32:12,840 --> 00:32:13,680 you know? Why did you 631 00:32:13,680 --> 00:32:17,520 choose those fonts for our our logo? 632 00:32:17,640 --> 00:32:20,700 I don't know. It just, it's, to me, it's like the rich Redmond 633 00:32:20,700 --> 00:32:21,480 show. 634 00:32:21,540 --> 00:32:24,080 Yeah, it's book ended by happiness. 635 00:32:25,820 --> 00:32:28,700 We could change it up. I mean, it was, it's just impact. 636 00:32:30,800 --> 00:32:34,040 But every font has a voice. You ever read a sign and derive the 637 00:32:34,040 --> 00:32:37,520 voice from it? There's a voice to it, yeah? I mean, the first 638 00:32:37,580 --> 00:32:43,480 Comic Sans has a voice, the first try at the logo. Jim sent 639 00:32:43,480 --> 00:32:48,220 me out of the park, and I just okay, if the IRS font was in 640 00:32:48,220 --> 00:32:51,100 Comic Sans, would you take them seriously? Which one is that? 641 00:32:51,100 --> 00:32:52,540 Which was comic book? 642 00:32:52,600 --> 00:32:55,660 Oh, God, but the Bible in the bubble font? 643 00:32:55,660 --> 00:32:58,480 People hate Comic Sans. Is what I'm pretty much. 644 00:33:00,700 --> 00:33:02,340 This is way off the rails. 645 00:33:02,580 --> 00:33:05,700 This is what you know. This makes a episode fun. Oh yeah, 646 00:33:05,700 --> 00:33:10,260 people universally hate the IRS, so, yeah, this is a good topic. 647 00:33:11,340 --> 00:33:14,280 So with your wife being in that position, you guys probably pay 648 00:33:14,940 --> 00:33:18,180 on time. It's like, boom, no extensions. Oh 649 00:33:18,180 --> 00:33:20,480 no, everything's extended because she's working on 650 00:33:20,480 --> 00:33:22,340 everybody's stuff. Ah, yeah. 651 00:33:22,340 --> 00:33:24,740 So this is a stressful time of year, kind of like from like, 652 00:33:24,740 --> 00:33:25,820 March to May, 653 00:33:25,820 --> 00:33:28,580 yeah, yeah. And then again, September, October, because it's 654 00:33:28,580 --> 00:33:31,220 the extension deadlines. Oh, man, yeah. It's just I learned 655 00:33:31,220 --> 00:33:32,240 all kinds of stuff I never 656 00:33:32,240 --> 00:33:34,400 wanted to know. Yeah, when is that? When did you guys meet? 657 00:33:34,520 --> 00:33:36,560 And you said you married 12 years we met at 658 00:33:36,560 --> 00:33:40,280 North Texas. You're, you guys was, she had music, uh, she was, 659 00:33:40,340 --> 00:33:43,480 and then also she ended up double majoring in business, and 660 00:33:43,480 --> 00:33:44,680 then did the accounting thing here. 661 00:33:44,680 --> 00:33:47,020 Smart, yeah, so what was your degree in performance, 662 00:33:47,020 --> 00:33:51,400 education, Jazz Studies, dude, like, a, it's like a philosophy 663 00:33:51,400 --> 00:33:54,220 degree, yep, basically, but, but, man, it's good to have that 664 00:33:54,220 --> 00:33:55,120 in your back pocket. 665 00:33:55,660 --> 00:33:59,620 Yeah? And, I mean, it was the path that that for me. Let me 666 00:33:59,680 --> 00:34:02,280 focus on what I want to do the most, right? All the other 667 00:34:02,280 --> 00:34:06,120 options were gonna limit my time behind drums, yeah, 668 00:34:06,240 --> 00:34:08,280 and if you can't play jazz drums, I mean, it's like, 669 00:34:08,280 --> 00:34:10,680 there's a lot of fantastic people that have never even 670 00:34:10,680 --> 00:34:13,680 dabbled it. They think they never even tried being spang a 671 00:34:13,680 --> 00:34:17,160 Lang but, you know, I always tell the kids it the reason why 672 00:34:17,160 --> 00:34:21,620 we have a drum set is because of an American art form known as 673 00:34:21,620 --> 00:34:25,700 jazz, and it gets you used to working in a triplet subdivision 674 00:34:26,120 --> 00:34:30,680 and tons coordination, yeah, yeah. And 675 00:34:30,800 --> 00:34:35,600 the the melodic phrasing and the improvisation stuff that doesn't 676 00:34:35,600 --> 00:34:38,540 it still applies to all the other styles, just kind of, you 677 00:34:38,840 --> 00:34:40,180 know, it's all derivative. So that was 678 00:34:40,180 --> 00:34:44,140 your favorite, some of your favorite jazz drummers? Haines 679 00:34:44,200 --> 00:34:46,720 was okay, yeah, probably my still favorite, playing 680 00:34:46,720 --> 00:34:50,860 to the end. He was playing up to like, the last couple months of 681 00:34:50,860 --> 00:34:51,220 his life. 682 00:34:51,220 --> 00:34:53,680 I saw him in like, 2017, 683 00:34:55,300 --> 00:34:59,380 or 18 in New York, at the Blue Note. Wow. And yeah, I mean, I. 684 00:35:00,300 --> 00:35:04,680 Uh, yeah. I mean, Haynes, obviously, Tony Gad, really? I 685 00:35:04,680 --> 00:35:07,800 mean, I mean, yeah, I always love Gad, because it just the 686 00:35:07,800 --> 00:35:10,620 vocabulary stayed the same whether he was playing with 687 00:35:10,620 --> 00:35:14,220 Chick Corea or Eric Clapton, and it somehow worked for both. 688 00:35:15,000 --> 00:35:18,540 So sad about his son, yeah, yeah, terrible. That's terrible. 689 00:35:19,920 --> 00:35:23,000 That is terrible, yeah, you know, the older we get, it's 690 00:35:23,000 --> 00:35:25,580 like we're, I'm in, I'm in this season. I don't know if you're 691 00:35:25,580 --> 00:35:28,760 starting to notice it, but people are, oh yeah. People are 692 00:35:28,760 --> 00:35:33,140 fading, yeah, you know, yeah, yeah, yeah. The one thing that 693 00:35:33,140 --> 00:35:33,680 is certain 694 00:35:34,760 --> 00:35:38,900 is that and freaking taxes, yeah, and the damn iron 695 00:35:38,900 --> 00:35:39,620 callback, 696 00:35:39,740 --> 00:35:43,420 yeah. Now, now, what about your pop guys? Now, before you moved 697 00:35:43,420 --> 00:35:45,700 to Nashville, did you say, Hey, I better do a deep, deep dive, a 698 00:35:45,700 --> 00:35:48,100 little bit on, like, Eddie bears and Lonnie Wilson 699 00:35:48,100 --> 00:35:50,560 or totally, absolutely, yeah, yeah. Uh, did a bunch of that. 700 00:35:50,560 --> 00:35:53,320 And I started playing with, like, the Texas country artists 701 00:35:53,320 --> 00:35:56,140 and stuff. And, oh, he's doing van tours out there across Texas 702 00:35:56,140 --> 00:35:59,320 and Oklahoma and all that. Any guys we know that probably not, 703 00:35:59,380 --> 00:36:02,040 yeah. Most of them aren't doing and doing it anymore, you know, 704 00:36:02,040 --> 00:36:06,300 wow. But like, you know, opening for the burgeoning Eli young 705 00:36:06,300 --> 00:36:09,120 band, oh yeah, you know, they were at it for some time before 706 00:36:09,120 --> 00:36:14,100 they pop. Yeah. And some around the guys like Stoney LaRue and 707 00:36:14,100 --> 00:36:17,160 Kevin Fowler and guys that have just been the staples out there 708 00:36:17,220 --> 00:36:19,560 for a long time. Kevin Fowler, Fowler, that's 709 00:36:20,760 --> 00:36:23,420 Ken to Andre, yeah, our buddy, yeah. 710 00:36:23,480 --> 00:36:26,420 And still, I'm still working with Aaron Watson now, but from 711 00:36:26,720 --> 00:36:30,980 the other side of the glass, yeah. And so, yeah, it's a did a 712 00:36:30,980 --> 00:36:33,560 bunch of that, but yeah, before I moved here, absolutely, kind 713 00:36:33,560 --> 00:36:36,800 of dug in and studied hard how to do that, and even took 714 00:36:36,800 --> 00:36:40,120 lessons outside of UNT with some like Sean McCarthy, some of 715 00:36:40,120 --> 00:36:44,380 those Dallas guys. So what wOJ a little bit like, Hey, get me my, 716 00:36:44,380 --> 00:36:46,180 like, commercial chops together, a little 717 00:36:46,180 --> 00:36:49,900 bit. So, what it was so, so Jim Dan wojowski was kind of like, 718 00:36:49,900 --> 00:36:53,740 uh, he's so great. He's like, an urban legend. I mean, he was 719 00:36:53,740 --> 00:36:56,560 basically in the unit, you know, University of North Texas, lab 720 00:36:56,560 --> 00:37:02,100 bands in like, 8283 84 kind of around there live in Australia, 721 00:37:02,100 --> 00:37:02,280 like 722 00:37:02,280 --> 00:37:04,320 right after Bissonnette, probably right after 723 00:37:04,320 --> 00:37:08,160 business. And he was just, he's just, is still an amazing 724 00:37:08,160 --> 00:37:10,740 drummer, and he kind of ruled the roost in Dallas for a long 725 00:37:10,740 --> 00:37:13,260 time. And now he's playing with Peter Frampton. He lives in the 726 00:37:13,260 --> 00:37:16,860 Pacific Northwest, but when you studied with him, um, what did 727 00:37:16,860 --> 00:37:18,540 you What do you guys cover? Man, I 728 00:37:18,540 --> 00:37:20,400 think I took, like, half a lesson with Dan. He was 729 00:37:20,400 --> 00:37:22,980 impossible to nail down, because he was always on the road with 730 00:37:22,980 --> 00:37:24,980 always on the road with with Frampton. But we he would, he 731 00:37:24,980 --> 00:37:29,600 had a practice room over in this place off 75 that I was taking 732 00:37:29,600 --> 00:37:33,980 some lessons with McCarthy and and occasionally some other 733 00:37:33,980 --> 00:37:37,580 people, and he would just be in there. So it was more of a, just 734 00:37:37,580 --> 00:37:41,560 a those were like life lesson, gig lesson, hallway, discussion, 735 00:37:41,560 --> 00:37:44,800 lesson, kind of things which are great, you know, off of 75 off 736 00:37:44,800 --> 00:37:48,220 of, like, Mockingbird Lane over there, I think so, yeah, it was, 737 00:37:48,220 --> 00:37:49,600 like a really colorful place, yeah, 738 00:37:49,600 --> 00:37:52,960 like planetary murals on the walls and stuff. Yeah, 739 00:37:53,140 --> 00:37:56,740 yes, to rehearse there with all of my top 40 bands. Yeah, yep, 740 00:37:56,740 --> 00:37:58,900 that's the spot. Now, when you were in Dallas, did you ever 741 00:37:58,900 --> 00:38:01,620 play with the Dallas press and electric, or the bill Tillman, 742 00:38:01,620 --> 00:38:04,440 or the project, or random access, or did 743 00:38:04,560 --> 00:38:09,300 some of those as sub things. And I did, there's a guy named Jeff 744 00:38:09,300 --> 00:38:12,360 Taylor that did a lot of that cover band. Yep, I was a 745 00:38:12,360 --> 00:38:15,780 founding member of front line. Yeah, yep. And Tin Man Band, and 746 00:38:15,780 --> 00:38:19,020 some of that stuff play with Jeff a good bit. And yeah, did 747 00:38:19,020 --> 00:38:22,220 weird like country gigs. I remember playing some it was 748 00:38:22,220 --> 00:38:24,620 this huge Honky Tonk in Fort Worth that I did for about a 749 00:38:24,620 --> 00:38:27,620 year, white elephant, Sloan, no way bigger and way not in the 750 00:38:27,620 --> 00:38:30,800 middle of anything like that. Billy Bob's no way off the 751 00:38:30,800 --> 00:38:33,080 beaten path. Wow, I promise you've never seen this place, 752 00:38:33,080 --> 00:38:37,520 but it was down there, and it was huge. And there'd be like 30 753 00:38:37,520 --> 00:38:39,800 or 40 people in there on a Wednesday night, we'd be playing 754 00:38:39,800 --> 00:38:43,000 old country songs, yeah? And, uh, some other drummer at UMT 755 00:38:43,000 --> 00:38:46,060 handed me the gig. And come to find out that all the people 756 00:38:46,060 --> 00:38:48,040 that were there were swingers. 757 00:38:49,360 --> 00:38:53,860 It was a way, as in, upside upside down, pineapple Swingers, 758 00:38:53,860 --> 00:38:57,400 yeah? Or actual Spanx bangalang swinging on music. No, the first 759 00:38:57,400 --> 00:38:58,240 thing, yeah, like, 760 00:38:59,020 --> 00:39:01,380 Shut Yeah, really, yeah, yeah. 761 00:39:01,920 --> 00:39:03,780 Just a intro to country music. 762 00:39:03,780 --> 00:39:06,660 I'm thinking, like, yeah. Like, you know, swing, yeah. Do 763 00:39:07,020 --> 00:39:11,340 you ever think about throwing your keys in there? No, were 764 00:39:11,340 --> 00:39:13,200 they attractive swingers? Are they? You 765 00:39:13,200 --> 00:39:16,680 know, that's the thing you learn in life, is that those, those 766 00:39:16,680 --> 00:39:19,560 things are not as portrayed on TV. Usually, yeah, usually 767 00:39:19,560 --> 00:39:22,280 nudist colonies are full of people that shouldn't be new. 768 00:39:22,340 --> 00:39:24,920 That's kind of but they they just love it. Yeah, they do. 769 00:39:24,920 --> 00:39:28,040 They're so free. Yeah, have you ever done that? Just walk around 770 00:39:28,040 --> 00:39:31,700 naked? No, on a beach, like, you know, specifically on a beach, 771 00:39:32,060 --> 00:39:34,880 no, well, you know, nude beach. Never been to a new beach. Would 772 00:39:34,880 --> 00:39:35,780 you ever want to do it? 773 00:39:36,920 --> 00:39:38,840 Okay? I want to ask them. I don't 774 00:39:41,420 --> 00:39:43,900 think that was just the setup, not the question. Okay, great. 775 00:39:45,040 --> 00:39:47,080 All right, I'll make a note of that. He 776 00:39:47,680 --> 00:39:49,060 was gonna invite me this weekend. 777 00:39:51,820 --> 00:39:54,580 Well, yeah, you go to a lot of, you go to a lot of I don't go to 778 00:39:54,580 --> 00:39:57,580 nude beaches, but you go to the camps, the campgrounds. Well, 779 00:39:57,580 --> 00:40:00,420 yeah, we used to go camping, but none of them had that. Kind of, 780 00:40:00,780 --> 00:40:03,540 did you get rid of your camper? Yeah, 781 00:40:03,660 --> 00:40:07,920 we sold it. So I produce, I produce the try that in a small 782 00:40:07,920 --> 00:40:13,140 town podcast. Try that in small town.com. And homosexual, yeah, 783 00:40:13,740 --> 00:40:18,840 one of the guys, Courtney and I, went to a trip al tapasa Robles, 784 00:40:19,320 --> 00:40:23,360 to do something that was a can aligned with the podcast, and 785 00:40:24,080 --> 00:40:28,100 Neil and kaylo went with their wives as well. And on the way 786 00:40:28,100 --> 00:40:31,100 back from one of these events, we were in a limo all together, 787 00:40:31,100 --> 00:40:33,980 and we were telling stories. And we happened to tell our story of 788 00:40:33,980 --> 00:40:37,640 when Courtney and I went to a brothel, grand opening of a 789 00:40:37,640 --> 00:40:40,220 brothel in Pahrump, Nevada, when we lived out in Vegas, 790 00:40:40,220 --> 00:40:42,940 did they have one of those, like things that just does out front? 791 00:40:42,940 --> 00:40:43,420 Yeah, 792 00:40:44,800 --> 00:40:47,980 inflatable crazy arm wavy guy, whatever they call that, a 793 00:40:47,980 --> 00:40:50,920 family guy. They did not have that. It was, it was a grand 794 00:40:50,920 --> 00:40:54,520 opening that our radio station was invited to, to do a remote 795 00:40:54,520 --> 00:40:58,480 broadcast there, and, you know, on the way there. I mean, we're 796 00:40:58,480 --> 00:41:01,620 probably 2625 years all the time. And my wife's like, you 797 00:41:01,620 --> 00:41:03,900 think they're going to be naked, you think it'd be walking 798 00:41:03,900 --> 00:41:05,940 around. You think that they're going to talk to me. You think 799 00:41:05,940 --> 00:41:08,160 they're going to do that. She's asking me all the questions. I 800 00:41:08,160 --> 00:41:10,980 said, Do you think if I knew the answers to these questions, you 801 00:41:10,980 --> 00:41:15,420 might be slightly worried? She goes, good point. I said, I 802 00:41:15,420 --> 00:41:17,700 don't know. I don't know what to expect. So we told them that 803 00:41:17,700 --> 00:41:20,040 story, and, you know, it was an amazing night one for the 804 00:41:20,040 --> 00:41:23,360 memories and all this other stuff. Apparently they came away 805 00:41:23,360 --> 00:41:28,520 from it, kalo and Neil thinking that we had done this recently, 806 00:41:28,820 --> 00:41:32,660 not 20 some odd years ago. Oh, wow. So amongst their group, 807 00:41:32,660 --> 00:41:34,880 they're like, yeah, they're, they're kind of adventurous. I 808 00:41:34,880 --> 00:41:37,340 mean, you know, don't, don't judge them from the outside. 809 00:41:37,340 --> 00:41:40,220 They Jim and Courtney. They're kind of living it up. And 810 00:41:40,220 --> 00:41:42,700 they're like, looking at their you know, if they're doing it, 811 00:41:42,700 --> 00:41:46,240 ladies, I mean, you know, what are those things? And they 812 00:41:46,240 --> 00:41:49,120 brought him, like, Have you been to any brothels lately? Jim and 813 00:41:49,120 --> 00:41:52,300 I'm going, Dude, that happened over 20 some odd years ago. Oh, 814 00:41:52,300 --> 00:41:56,140 total misunderstanding. You just let him keep going with it. 815 00:41:56,320 --> 00:41:59,140 Yeah. But never been to a swingers club or anything 816 00:42:00,220 --> 00:42:04,440 yet. Jimbo, you're crazy. What Fort Worth? Honky Tonk, the 817 00:42:04,440 --> 00:42:07,500 drag. So what do you what are you listening? What are you 818 00:42:07,500 --> 00:42:11,160 listening to nowadays? Like, you know, I always talk about the, 819 00:42:11,160 --> 00:42:13,560 you know, keeping up with the kids, and, you know, you don't 820 00:42:13,560 --> 00:42:17,520 want to be the Get Get off my long guy. What? What are there 821 00:42:17,520 --> 00:42:19,680 some bands or artists that are like, light in your fire, or 822 00:42:19,680 --> 00:42:21,860 drummers you're following, or, man, 823 00:42:21,860 --> 00:42:24,740 I don't know. I mean, I'm bad at that now, because everything's 824 00:42:24,740 --> 00:42:27,740 so focused on the work you're doing, focus on the work and the 825 00:42:27,740 --> 00:42:30,560 references that we're working on, and but I've been doing, 826 00:42:30,560 --> 00:42:35,720 I've been listening to a lot more like indie artists stuff 827 00:42:35,720 --> 00:42:39,860 and indie pop stuff, and just kind of just diving into 828 00:42:39,860 --> 00:42:43,960 different things, and I keep a big playlist of that around, but 829 00:42:43,960 --> 00:42:47,020 I'm, I'm nowhere near as good as I used to be about, like, living 830 00:42:47,020 --> 00:42:50,440 with records for a long time. Yeah. And I don't know if that's 831 00:42:50,440 --> 00:42:52,780 just the nature of what I'm doing, or the nature of how the 832 00:42:52,780 --> 00:42:55,540 world is, or me just being lazy, but that's, it's just different. 833 00:42:55,840 --> 00:43:01,320 But, uh, I mean, a lot of the like, the the anything now that 834 00:43:01,320 --> 00:43:04,680 I think sort of challenges my ideas about production I'm 835 00:43:04,680 --> 00:43:07,500 pretty interested in. So I love listening to stuff that, you 836 00:43:07,500 --> 00:43:09,540 know, anything that Jack Antonoff worked on is really 837 00:43:09,840 --> 00:43:12,480 kind of interesting. He just thinks super differently than I 838 00:43:12,480 --> 00:43:15,960 would on anything. So a lot of guys out there that I can go up, 839 00:43:16,440 --> 00:43:18,900 okay, I see how you got from point A to point B. I might get 840 00:43:18,900 --> 00:43:21,860 somewhere similar and not that guy. I would not have gotten to 841 00:43:21,860 --> 00:43:24,260 that same place from the same starting point, I don't think. 842 00:43:25,400 --> 00:43:27,920 And you know, a lot of the Billie Eilish stuff is really 843 00:43:27,920 --> 00:43:31,280 cool and interesting, and just anything that, to me, just kind 844 00:43:31,280 --> 00:43:34,640 of feels really cool and feels inventive and fresh. You 845 00:43:35,420 --> 00:43:38,780 could buy a laptop and have like, a MIDI keyboard, and 846 00:43:38,840 --> 00:43:41,260 you're a brother and a sister, and you could create Grammy 847 00:43:41,260 --> 00:43:45,760 Award winning, career defining records in your bedroom. 848 00:43:46,180 --> 00:43:47,620 Amazing. Yeah. And 849 00:43:47,620 --> 00:43:54,640 I kind of got way into the, the tread lightly on this, the synth 850 00:43:54,640 --> 00:43:58,600 thing, in a way, but as a supplement to I've like, I've 851 00:43:58,600 --> 00:44:01,920 started really liking putting instruments on records that 852 00:44:01,980 --> 00:44:05,160 weren't traditionally thought of as being on those kinds of 853 00:44:05,160 --> 00:44:07,980 records. So sneaking a Moog into a country record, or moving some 854 00:44:07,980 --> 00:44:10,860 Americana singer songwriter stuff and some pop stuff 855 00:44:10,860 --> 00:44:14,220 together. So I kind of look for stuff like that, where people 856 00:44:14,220 --> 00:44:16,500 are just kind of taking some chances and doing something 857 00:44:16,500 --> 00:44:18,780 different, like a patchwork quilt, yeah? Like Maggie Rogers 858 00:44:18,780 --> 00:44:22,160 stuff has been really cool. Ian Fitch did the last one, oh, 859 00:44:22,160 --> 00:44:24,440 yeah. But even the one before that was awesome. Uh, there's 860 00:44:24,440 --> 00:44:26,840 just been a bunch of stuff out there like that. That's kind of 861 00:44:26,840 --> 00:44:29,660 like, Great songwriting, and then really kind of cool and 862 00:44:29,660 --> 00:44:31,100 invented production. Has been so 863 00:44:31,100 --> 00:44:34,160 many new producers in town, yeah? You know, new 864 00:44:34,160 --> 00:44:37,400 whippersnappers that I, you know, I'm not running this down, 865 00:44:37,400 --> 00:44:40,960 yeah, it's interesting. People are going to be chasing you down 866 00:44:40,960 --> 00:44:43,300 because you know you're having some success, and they're like, 867 00:44:43,300 --> 00:44:45,040 You got to get on that guy's radar. It's 868 00:44:45,220 --> 00:44:48,880 been fun to stay busy and work with different people, and 869 00:44:48,880 --> 00:44:54,100 that's been a big focus. Was trying to work on different 870 00:44:54,100 --> 00:44:57,160 types of music that I find challenging still, even though 871 00:44:57,460 --> 00:45:02,700 that might might not be the most. Direct path to to one, one 872 00:45:02,700 --> 00:45:07,080 outcome. It's been a lot more rewarding. And I feel like in 873 00:45:07,080 --> 00:45:11,220 the last couple years, really, maybe the last two it started, 874 00:45:11,460 --> 00:45:14,040 I'm looking at the calendar and going, Oh, I like all the stuff 875 00:45:14,040 --> 00:45:16,320 I'm working on. Like, I like all the people I'm working with. I 876 00:45:16,320 --> 00:45:18,900 like all the stuff I'm working on. I don't feel like I'm having 877 00:45:18,900 --> 00:45:20,840 to take stuff to fill in nice 878 00:45:20,840 --> 00:45:23,720 the gaps as much, yeah, you turn the corner. Because in the early 879 00:45:23,720 --> 00:45:26,600 days, you take everything as, first as a drummer, you take 880 00:45:26,600 --> 00:45:29,240 everything and then you started taking everything as a Yeah. 881 00:45:29,240 --> 00:45:34,100 Start all over. Yeah, producer. And then are you trying to write 882 00:45:34,100 --> 00:45:35,000 with the artist? 883 00:45:35,060 --> 00:45:38,300 I'm doing that a lot more now too. Yeah, yeah. And so I just 884 00:45:38,300 --> 00:45:41,980 had a an admin go through all my catalog to upload it, because 885 00:45:41,980 --> 00:45:45,400 I'm terrible about that stuff and and they sent me this list 886 00:45:45,400 --> 00:45:48,580 back of like, did you write and produce this? This, this, this 887 00:45:48,580 --> 00:45:51,460 holy crap. I've written a lot more than I thought I had. And 888 00:45:51,460 --> 00:45:55,240 so, yeah, I've been doing a lot more right, probably last five 889 00:45:55,240 --> 00:45:58,240 years. A ton of the stuff I produce, I'm writing some of 890 00:45:58,300 --> 00:45:59,920 with them. That's great. So basically, 891 00:45:59,920 --> 00:46:04,020 you're in the studio as a producer, like, mixer, yeah, 892 00:46:04,080 --> 00:46:07,740 first, right? Yeah. And then, so I had a question about, and 893 00:46:07,740 --> 00:46:10,440 it's, it's like, as you're talking, it reminds me a lot of 894 00:46:10,440 --> 00:46:14,400 how I kind of progressed in radio, immersing yourself, uh, 895 00:46:14,400 --> 00:46:17,460 emulating people that you, you admire. Did you surround 896 00:46:17,460 --> 00:46:20,520 yourself with producers and mixers engineers and watch that 897 00:46:20,520 --> 00:46:24,680 what they were doing, because for me to make a radio 898 00:46:24,680 --> 00:46:29,600 commercial sound, not local, yeah, and make it sound agency 899 00:46:29,600 --> 00:46:33,560 was a big thing for me when I started out, and I learned all 900 00:46:33,560 --> 00:46:36,620 the different tips and tricks the hard way. Did you have 901 00:46:36,620 --> 00:46:39,380 somebody pouring into you to show you? Okay, here's how you 902 00:46:39,380 --> 00:46:43,180 go from making it sound like you're in a garage to an actual 903 00:46:43,240 --> 00:46:45,640 polished, you know, sweetened album? 904 00:46:45,700 --> 00:46:50,680 Yeah, that's a good question. I think because I came at it from 905 00:46:50,680 --> 00:46:54,940 already having been a player, I didn't come in as a 24 year old. 906 00:46:55,360 --> 00:46:58,180 Let me intern with this producer and learn everything and be the 907 00:46:58,180 --> 00:47:01,260 assistant. For a long time, I had to make money like I had to 908 00:47:01,380 --> 00:47:05,160 figure out how I was going to play and start doing that and 909 00:47:05,160 --> 00:47:09,060 make the time work. And so I did learn a lot, but I learned a lot 910 00:47:09,060 --> 00:47:14,040 of it from relationships and connections I built with with 911 00:47:14,040 --> 00:47:16,920 producers that were older than me, that would let me glom onto 912 00:47:16,920 --> 00:47:20,400 something, or that would come in and if, even if I was producing 913 00:47:20,400 --> 00:47:22,520 it, I would call them and hire them and go, Hey, can you 914 00:47:22,760 --> 00:47:25,340 engineer this? But, you know, make sure I don't fuck this up. 915 00:47:25,340 --> 00:47:27,800 Like, right? Like, make it sound good. Like, can I? Can I 916 00:47:27,920 --> 00:47:30,680 basically pay you to apprentice me through this a little bit 917 00:47:30,680 --> 00:47:33,140 amazing. So I did a lot of that, and then a lot of my buddies, 918 00:47:33,140 --> 00:47:37,580 like, you know, Bobby Holland was a huge help, who's got a 919 00:47:37,580 --> 00:47:41,200 studio in Berry Hill, and we worked on a lot of stuff where I 920 00:47:41,200 --> 00:47:43,840 was kind of producing, and so I was arranging with, you know, 921 00:47:43,840 --> 00:47:46,180 finding the artists, working with the songs, and arting the 922 00:47:46,180 --> 00:47:48,820 project, arranging the music, and he was doing all the 923 00:47:48,820 --> 00:47:51,700 engineering and mixing. I also worked with Jeff Braun a lot, 924 00:47:51,700 --> 00:47:57,700 who I believe works all your stuff. Yeah, now, and Jeff was 925 00:47:57,700 --> 00:48:01,120 on, he was singing merch on Greg Bates' bus for a summer, wow, 926 00:48:01,120 --> 00:48:03,840 just to get out and see what was going on. Did a bunch of indie 927 00:48:03,840 --> 00:48:06,840 records together. And he was a, he was great because he was 928 00:48:06,840 --> 00:48:10,620 already so talented, and he was really young, and he was walking 929 00:48:10,620 --> 00:48:14,220 me through all sorts of stuff, Pro Tools, stuff, mix stuff. He 930 00:48:14,220 --> 00:48:16,800 was kind of the guy that pushed me to start mixing eventually. 931 00:48:16,800 --> 00:48:19,500 Was like, Hey, you should just, you should just be mixing this 932 00:48:19,500 --> 00:48:24,320 stuff. You know, you know how to do that. And so I learned a lot 933 00:48:24,320 --> 00:48:27,500 from the peers too, you know. So no formal background. Education 934 00:48:27,500 --> 00:48:30,680 is all real world, absolutely on the job training, yeah, just my 935 00:48:30,680 --> 00:48:33,260 one of my buddies also here. I'll credit him with this 936 00:48:33,260 --> 00:48:35,660 statement, whether he likes it or not. Jonathan Roy is a great 937 00:48:35,660 --> 00:48:37,880 mixer in town. Yeah? He says all the things, yeah. People get 938 00:48:37,880 --> 00:48:40,400 kids ask me all the time how to get good at mixing, and I just 939 00:48:40,400 --> 00:48:42,980 tell them, you just got to ruin people's indie records for two 940 00:48:42,980 --> 00:48:43,540 indie records 941 00:48:45,040 --> 00:48:47,800 for 10 years. You got to get an ear for it, yeah. And know what 942 00:48:47,800 --> 00:48:50,980 to listen for. I mean, even I'm thinking about putting together 943 00:48:50,980 --> 00:48:54,940 a curriculum for voiceover talent, aspiring or otherwise, 944 00:48:55,120 --> 00:48:58,000 on how to produce their own stuff, yeah, so they could spec 945 00:48:58,000 --> 00:49:01,680 projects and make themselves stand out amongst on the crowd, 946 00:49:02,400 --> 00:49:05,280 which takes an ear. It takes, you know, okay, I need to fit 947 00:49:05,280 --> 00:49:08,040 this music bed in the context of the voice and, you know, maybe 948 00:49:08,040 --> 00:49:10,980 pull certain Sonic frequencies down or pump some up, that kind 949 00:49:10,980 --> 00:49:14,640 of a thing. At what point did you realize, Okay, I've got, 950 00:49:14,880 --> 00:49:17,160 I've got an ear for this. It 951 00:49:17,160 --> 00:49:20,300 wasn't the early part. Wasn't that I had an ear for it. It was 952 00:49:20,300 --> 00:49:24,260 that I didn't want to stop until I got it right. Like I have a 953 00:49:24,260 --> 00:49:27,620 passion for it that I discovered I was super obsessed with making 954 00:49:28,100 --> 00:49:31,400 the record sound like what I heard in my head, and so I just 955 00:49:31,400 --> 00:49:36,560 kept asking questions and kept failing until it's it now, it 956 00:49:36,560 --> 00:49:39,200 gets much closer to what I'm hearing in my head than it used 957 00:49:39,200 --> 00:49:43,060 to and and then there's the, the commerce part of it comes in 958 00:49:43,060 --> 00:49:46,060 where, you know, it's, you do figure out, okay, well, this is, 959 00:49:46,480 --> 00:49:49,120 this has to be done by this deadline. So you get comfortable 960 00:49:49,120 --> 00:49:50,620 with, how surgical do you get in 961 00:49:50,620 --> 00:49:53,380 terms of, like, well, I'm imagining a certain kind of kick 962 00:49:53,380 --> 00:49:56,380 sound. Do you get that precise? 963 00:49:56,380 --> 00:49:58,960 Yeah, pretty much. I mean, I think it's a big, giant puzzle, 964 00:49:59,020 --> 00:50:01,740 and it's got to fit. Together as much as possible. So there's 965 00:50:01,740 --> 00:50:05,940 like, there's this two it's a, it's a really like double edged 966 00:50:05,940 --> 00:50:09,420 sword. May not if that's the right term, but it, on one hand, 967 00:50:10,380 --> 00:50:13,080 I want the whole thing, every little piece and component, to 968 00:50:13,080 --> 00:50:15,960 sound exactly the way I want it to, to fit and be a unique 969 00:50:15,960 --> 00:50:19,080 record, and not something that we could pull up really quickly 970 00:50:19,080 --> 00:50:23,420 and just go, yeah. But on the other hand, you do also have to 971 00:50:23,420 --> 00:50:27,380 sort of accept what's happening. You have to be open to going 972 00:50:27,380 --> 00:50:29,960 like, oh, well, that's not really what I thought, but 973 00:50:29,960 --> 00:50:31,940 that's kind of working. And there's a, there's a little 974 00:50:31,940 --> 00:50:34,580 curriculum in the back of my head, a little little checklist 975 00:50:34,580 --> 00:50:38,120 of like, hey, is this, is this cool? Is this, like, a good 976 00:50:38,120 --> 00:50:40,480 surprise, or is this going to be something that we have to get 977 00:50:40,480 --> 00:50:42,760 rid of later, or we have to we regret. You know, is this 978 00:50:42,760 --> 00:50:44,380 pulling us in the wrong direction? How 979 00:50:44,380 --> 00:50:45,940 often you got to reset your ears? 980 00:50:47,260 --> 00:50:49,420 I should do it more than I do because I sit there for too 981 00:50:49,420 --> 00:50:52,120 long. Yeah, but yeah. I mean pretty frequently, and it's good 982 00:50:52,120 --> 00:50:55,000 to reference stuff, you know, as you're going I do, we do more 983 00:50:55,000 --> 00:50:58,240 referencing in pre production and early production than we do, 984 00:50:58,240 --> 00:51:01,440 like, at some point in the production process. For me, I 985 00:51:01,440 --> 00:51:04,200 want to stop doing that, and I want to just go with whatever 986 00:51:04,200 --> 00:51:04,680 we've got. Do 987 00:51:05,040 --> 00:51:07,620 you ever come back into it like from a night before and listen 988 00:51:07,620 --> 00:51:10,560 back and be like, What the hell were we thinking? Oh, my. We 989 00:51:10,560 --> 00:51:15,120 were tired infrequently anymore, but early on all the time. Yeah, 990 00:51:15,120 --> 00:51:16,500 you know, yeah, 991 00:51:16,920 --> 00:51:20,540 it sounded so good last night. What were we thinking? Right? 992 00:51:20,540 --> 00:51:23,660 You know how you ginger is a palette cleanser. You know 993 00:51:23,720 --> 00:51:26,660 you're eating sushi or whatever. So for your ears, you know, 994 00:51:26,660 --> 00:51:30,380 you're probably got this beautiful chair, beautiful desk, 995 00:51:30,380 --> 00:51:34,040 you have your speakers, and then you might go listen to it, car, 996 00:51:34,100 --> 00:51:38,000 yeah, on the phone. I mean, how are the crazy kids listening to 997 00:51:38,000 --> 00:51:39,620 music? They're listening to it on their phone. 998 00:51:39,620 --> 00:51:42,040 Yeah? I mean, I get mixed revisions sometimes where 999 00:51:42,040 --> 00:51:45,100 somebody just listened to it on their, like, their phone. And I 1000 00:51:45,100 --> 00:51:47,620 don't mean like earbuds on their just, I mean speaker phone, 1001 00:51:47,680 --> 00:51:51,820 like, sounds great, man, it's like, no. So I always listen to 1002 00:51:51,820 --> 00:51:54,640 the mixes there. You know, that's the sound we used to do 1003 00:51:54,640 --> 00:51:58,420 that in radio in order to test a spot. Once we were finished. 1004 00:51:58,420 --> 00:52:01,320 Obviously, it's, you know, not a full mix production. It's a 1005 00:52:01,320 --> 00:52:04,800 couple of tracks, but we had a cue speaker in the actual 1006 00:52:04,800 --> 00:52:08,040 console, so we would turn all the speakers down and just play 1007 00:52:08,040 --> 00:52:10,440 it through the cue speaker, and if I could hear my voice cutting 1008 00:52:10,440 --> 00:52:12,960 through, that meant it was extra. Yeah, yeah, 1009 00:52:13,200 --> 00:52:15,840 yeah. You know the guy, Pete Coleman, that engineers all of 1010 00:52:15,840 --> 00:52:22,340 our records. He listens to playbacks soft, yeah, very soft 1011 00:52:22,340 --> 00:52:24,620 when we were, when we were actually using real percussion 1012 00:52:24,620 --> 00:52:27,200 for the first, I don't know, nine records or whatever. There 1013 00:52:27,200 --> 00:52:30,440 is a shaker buried on every Aldean track, and it is this 1014 00:52:30,440 --> 00:52:34,160 little glue. It's amazing, because you could tell the 1015 00:52:34,160 --> 00:52:37,340 difference, even if it's buried in the track. And he will listen 1016 00:52:37,700 --> 00:52:43,660 to my execution so softly he goes, it's, it's just easier to 1017 00:52:43,660 --> 00:52:45,760 hear soft. I'm like, wow, yeah, 1018 00:52:45,820 --> 00:52:48,580 the detail comes out better soft. And you're not exciting 1019 00:52:48,580 --> 00:52:51,100 the room and getting lied to by what's going on there 1020 00:52:51,100 --> 00:52:51,640 interesting 1021 00:52:51,880 --> 00:52:55,360 you have when it comes to compression and stuff like that. 1022 00:52:56,080 --> 00:52:59,320 I know a lot of the tracks over the past. I don't know, 20 years 1023 00:52:59,800 --> 00:53:03,720 you look at, you know, the waveforms, brick, a lot. They 1024 00:53:03,720 --> 00:53:07,320 went from like to brick, nuanced in the 80s, little, you know, 1025 00:53:07,320 --> 00:53:09,360 dynamics, and now they're just, 1026 00:53:10,980 --> 00:53:13,500 yeah, is it still like that? Are we getting back to nuance? We're 1027 00:53:13,500 --> 00:53:13,800 getting 1028 00:53:13,800 --> 00:53:16,800 back to nuance, I think, in a lot, and it's genre dependent. 1029 00:53:16,800 --> 00:53:20,640 Still, some genres are expect to be, to be that, like metal, 1030 00:53:21,120 --> 00:53:23,960 yeah. And even, I mean, a lot of times I feel like, like modern 1031 00:53:24,500 --> 00:53:27,260 country, like radio country, there's so many tracks on modern 1032 00:53:27,260 --> 00:53:29,480 country, yeah. So those are, those are pretty, those are 1033 00:53:29,480 --> 00:53:32,840 pretty loud, you know, but you get into the the indie stuff and 1034 00:53:32,840 --> 00:53:35,660 the Americana stuff, and those are really, a lot of those are 1035 00:53:35,660 --> 00:53:38,000 cut with vinyl in mind. So they're, they're a lot more 1036 00:53:38,000 --> 00:53:39,680 dynamic, and they kind of keep them that 1037 00:53:39,680 --> 00:53:42,280 way. Have you ever gotten into a project where you're like, 30 1038 00:53:42,280 --> 00:53:46,120 plus tracks deep and the computer crashes, 1039 00:53:46,180 --> 00:53:49,000 yeah, without a save. So you save frequently? 1040 00:53:49,060 --> 00:53:51,880 Yeah, it auto saves. I've got, like, I'm the guy that, I mean, 1041 00:53:51,880 --> 00:53:54,340 remember that was Ableton guy for a long time, too. So I'm the 1042 00:53:54,340 --> 00:53:56,860 guy that people go, Hey, what should my backup system be? And 1043 00:53:56,860 --> 00:53:59,800 I tell them, and they never do it, but it's, I have my backup 1044 00:53:59,800 --> 00:54:04,080 system. That's, that's, it's cloud and and physical, yeah, 1045 00:54:04,080 --> 00:54:04,680 smart, 1046 00:54:04,680 --> 00:54:07,620 that's crazy. That's how I would receive my years. You 1047 00:54:07,680 --> 00:54:10,440 think about it, you're met, you're messing with, like, yeah, 1048 00:54:10,560 --> 00:54:15,120 you know, some of these people are spending $100,000 on a 1049 00:54:15,120 --> 00:54:18,780 record or more if there's a label involved. I mean, this is 1050 00:54:18,780 --> 00:54:21,300 like, I tell, I've told other producers that don't do it. I'm 1051 00:54:21,300 --> 00:54:23,540 like, You got to think about it like you like you're walking 1052 00:54:23,540 --> 00:54:27,620 around with a suitcase full of cash, yeah? And the longer you 1053 00:54:27,620 --> 00:54:31,460 work on that project, the more cash is in that suitcase. And if 1054 00:54:31,460 --> 00:54:34,220 it's all just in that one suitcase and it's unlocked and 1055 00:54:34,220 --> 00:54:37,400 you just leaving it on the floor, that's, I don't feel good 1056 00:54:37,400 --> 00:54:40,580 about that. Yeah, whoa, yeah. 1057 00:54:40,580 --> 00:54:43,660 It's, yeah. I would reset my ears when the computer crashed, 1058 00:54:43,660 --> 00:54:45,340 and I'd freaking go, the worst 1059 00:54:45,340 --> 00:54:46,300 thing that I ever did 1060 00:54:49,540 --> 00:54:54,040 is I, but the backup system was made it fine is I was I put in a 1061 00:54:54,040 --> 00:54:59,920 new drive to make a a copy for the artist of the sessions at. 1062 00:55:00,000 --> 00:55:02,160 For mixing was done after everything was done, and you 1063 00:55:02,160 --> 00:55:04,260 have to initialize the drive, which means you have to erase 1064 00:55:04,260 --> 00:55:08,880 it. And it was the same name as the drive they had given me to 1065 00:55:08,880 --> 00:55:13,320 work off of, oh no, and I did it, Yep, I sure did you erase 1066 00:55:13,320 --> 00:55:17,880 the entire erased the entire drive. But I had it backed up on 1067 00:55:17,880 --> 00:55:20,840 my archive local, and I had it backed up in the cloud, and I 1068 00:55:20,840 --> 00:55:23,360 just pulled it right back over and set it over. It was, it was, 1069 00:55:23,360 --> 00:55:23,660 did you? 1070 00:55:23,660 --> 00:55:26,300 Did you soil your pants? Oh, god, yeah. There was, like, that 1071 00:55:26,300 --> 00:55:28,820 moment of your heart just jumping into your throat, cold 1072 00:55:28,820 --> 00:55:29,840 sweats. Like, 1073 00:55:29,900 --> 00:55:33,800 I mean, I think I jumped up in the studio and screamed like it 1074 00:55:33,800 --> 00:55:36,560 was the scariest thing that's ever happened. And it took me 1075 00:55:36,560 --> 00:55:39,200 about, it took me about two minutes of just sheer panic 1076 00:55:39,440 --> 00:55:42,520 before I really, like, I knew immediately. I'm like, What's 1077 00:55:42,520 --> 00:55:44,860 fine. It's in these other places. But I've never had to 1078 00:55:44,860 --> 00:55:47,680 use the backup before. I never had to restore anything. It's 1079 00:55:47,680 --> 00:55:50,260 like, it's there. I know it's there. I don't want to look what 1080 00:55:50,260 --> 00:55:53,920 if it's not there, and it was there, and it took one second to 1081 00:55:53,920 --> 00:55:54,640 just Boop. Boop. 1082 00:55:54,700 --> 00:55:58,060 Okay, cool. Recording four camera feeds at some of these 1083 00:55:58,060 --> 00:56:01,260 podcasts I produce. It's like, I'm constantly monitoring to 1084 00:56:01,260 --> 00:56:03,720 make sure everything's recording, yeah, just, you know, 1085 00:56:03,720 --> 00:56:06,840 it's, it sounds good. We got, you know, okay, you know, if 1086 00:56:06,840 --> 00:56:09,480 something goes out, or maybe I run out of space on a card, for 1087 00:56:09,480 --> 00:56:12,780 some reason, it's like, okay, I know that's feeding into there, 1088 00:56:12,780 --> 00:56:15,480 so I gotta back up there, so that should be good. Yeah? 1089 00:56:15,720 --> 00:56:17,940 Oh, it's like, no matter how careful you are, because I'm 1090 00:56:17,940 --> 00:56:20,640 super careful, I have those systems in place. It just takes 1091 00:56:20,700 --> 00:56:24,980 one time. It wasn't a lost. It was me. I did it like I made a 1092 00:56:24,980 --> 00:56:29,180 mistake and it it that would have been a huge mistake if I 1093 00:56:29,180 --> 00:56:32,360 hadn't. It's a miracle you'll never make again. Oh, God no, 1094 00:56:32,420 --> 00:56:35,480 yeah, because it's like, how many times I've shot video and I 1095 00:56:35,480 --> 00:56:38,060 forgot to turn the camera on right and hit him record? Oh, 1096 00:56:38,060 --> 00:56:38,720 get this. 1097 00:56:39,920 --> 00:56:43,600 I have never messed up with 200 and something episodes of this 1098 00:56:43,600 --> 00:56:48,280 show, but the same drummer that I'm a fan of, Mike Miley from 1099 00:56:48,280 --> 00:56:53,560 the rival sons, we had a 60 minute gorgeous, flowing, 1100 00:56:53,560 --> 00:56:58,540 beautiful conversation. Never press record. So I remember that 1101 00:56:58,540 --> 00:57:03,720 I apologize to him. We set up another one, and then the audio 1102 00:57:04,140 --> 00:57:09,180 was corrupted, and he's like, I'm like, twice, and then I am 1103 00:57:09,180 --> 00:57:12,960 so happy that he reached out. He's like, Should we try this 1104 00:57:12,960 --> 00:57:16,560 again? He goes, I love chatting with you. Bucha. Like, we're 1105 00:57:16,560 --> 00:57:20,100 gonna do it. I just got to make sure that I get to 1106 00:57:20,100 --> 00:57:23,420 call you up and say, okay, am I being punked? Ashton Kushner, 1107 00:57:23,420 --> 00:57:26,240 come out, poor guy, yeah. I mean, twice. I mean, 1108 00:57:26,360 --> 00:57:29,480 it's technology stuff happens, and it's like, you know? And so, 1109 00:57:29,480 --> 00:57:31,940 yeah, that was, that was the one I had not told that publicly, 1110 00:57:31,940 --> 00:57:34,400 that I did that, but it's been a long time now, and but you know 1111 00:57:34,460 --> 00:57:37,220 that it doesn't happen to the best of the best had, had to, 1112 00:57:37,220 --> 00:57:39,860 yeah, you know? I mean, think about all the stuff that's on 1113 00:57:39,860 --> 00:57:43,120 tape that's been lost over years. You know, it's just gone 1114 00:57:43,120 --> 00:57:46,240 well even. But even when you're recording on tape, it's pretty 1115 00:57:46,240 --> 00:57:48,580 obvious if the reels aren't moving right, you're 1116 00:57:49,060 --> 00:57:53,020 not recording, yeah, yeah. Well, you know, we had, I remember us 1117 00:57:53,080 --> 00:57:56,860 all going to a lunch at 1118 00:57:57,340 --> 00:58:00,040 those Jackson's, wasn't it Jackson's before I moved to 1119 00:58:00,040 --> 00:58:00,280 town, 1120 00:58:01,300 --> 00:58:03,960 and Steve misomo was there, and I had Steve misomo as a guest, 1121 00:58:03,960 --> 00:58:06,180 and he was talking about, you know, how he got paid all those 1122 00:58:06,180 --> 00:58:14,220 years to work at Sony tree and transfer all those audio 1123 00:58:14,280 --> 00:58:19,500 recordings physical to a digital format. Oh, so he did. That was 1124 00:58:19,500 --> 00:58:22,100 his job. Yeah, like, eight archiving that stuff. And he got 1125 00:58:22,100 --> 00:58:24,800 to basically hear the history of country music coming through 1126 00:58:24,800 --> 00:58:28,100 Nashville in the 50s, 60s, 70s. Pretty, pretty amazing. Yeah. 1127 00:58:28,340 --> 00:58:31,460 Chris Mara does all that out. And welcome to 1979 like they do 1128 00:58:31,460 --> 00:58:34,280 all kinds of tape transfer stuff. It's amazing. Yeah. How 1129 00:58:34,280 --> 00:58:38,420 many studio, commercial studios do you think are in Nashville? 1130 00:58:38,660 --> 00:58:40,280 We're talking hundreds, right? Yeah. 1131 00:58:40,340 --> 00:58:43,420 I mean, and far less than there used to be. But if you count 1132 00:58:43,420 --> 00:58:46,240 now, the all the private stuff like mine that's popped up to 1133 00:58:46,240 --> 00:58:48,340 make records, yeah, probably more than there used to be. 1134 00:58:48,340 --> 00:58:50,380 Yeah, no, but yeah, yes. So 1135 00:58:50,860 --> 00:58:55,840 an operation like yours is heavy man and the financial and you 1136 00:58:55,840 --> 00:58:58,180 got to have the insurance and all that kind of stuff. But if 1137 00:58:58,240 --> 00:59:01,020 somebody wants to start doing what you're doing, what's the 1138 00:59:01,020 --> 00:59:05,220 minimum that they is gonna they can have a powerful laptop, 1139 00:59:05,220 --> 00:59:06,600 right? Some nice microphones, 1140 00:59:08,460 --> 00:59:09,600 yeah, 20 grand, 1141 00:59:09,840 --> 00:59:13,500 small interface. I mean, you can get started for five grand 1142 00:59:14,340 --> 00:59:17,400 virtual like a little Mackie board and, yeah, you don't need 1143 00:59:17,400 --> 00:59:21,980 that. You need Apollo twin and a laptop and I'm in one good mic, 1144 00:59:22,040 --> 00:59:25,520 wow. And you can, you can start making music talented. You can 1145 00:59:25,520 --> 00:59:28,340 learn a lot, yeah, or don't be talented, just suck and work 1146 00:59:28,460 --> 00:59:30,860 hard. Yeah, yeah, suck first, yeah. So 1147 00:59:30,860 --> 00:59:33,620 what's the schedule when you is it artist to artist? Or do you 1148 00:59:33,620 --> 00:59:36,620 like to have a particular schedule? Like, Hey guys, we're, 1149 00:59:36,680 --> 00:59:38,240 you know, 10 o'clock, latest? 1150 00:59:38,840 --> 00:59:43,540 No, it does. I mean, I have, yes, I have that, like that 1151 00:59:43,540 --> 00:59:47,200 ideal schedule, and that gets shot to hell frequently, you 1152 00:59:47,200 --> 00:59:54,640 know, but it depends on the artist. I try to run it sort of 1153 00:59:54,640 --> 00:59:58,780 the same, the same hours that that all the sessions work, 1154 00:59:58,780 --> 01:00:01,080 because we're using the same. Players, and they're on the same 1155 01:00:01,080 --> 01:00:04,560 schedule, and so we're, you know, we need to kind of keep 1156 01:00:04,560 --> 01:00:08,700 that going. And, yeah, I try to do mostly morning, afternoon 1157 01:00:08,700 --> 01:00:12,120 sessions. The night thing is, is okay, but because it's usually 1158 01:00:12,120 --> 01:00:15,720 just me by myself out there, it's, it just turns into a very 1159 01:00:15,720 --> 01:00:18,720 long day of me. There's only so much concentration juice in the 1160 01:00:18,720 --> 01:00:21,620 in the can over here, so, but we do them, you know, like, a lot 1161 01:00:21,620 --> 01:00:25,220 of the Hazel stuff would be, would include evening sessions, 1162 01:00:25,220 --> 01:00:28,400 because they would come in and they would do their sessions on, 1163 01:00:28,400 --> 01:00:32,660 like, front and back of tour dates. And so they come in work 1164 01:00:32,660 --> 01:00:35,480 a day or two, go out and play three shows, come in work a day 1165 01:00:35,480 --> 01:00:38,420 or two. Maybe not all of them. Maybe it'd be, you know, Mark 1166 01:00:38,420 --> 01:00:41,020 and jet on the first two days, and then they'd come back in and 1167 01:00:41,560 --> 01:00:44,680 and, you know, Ryan would come do guitar stuff for a day, yeah? 1168 01:00:44,740 --> 01:00:46,840 And a lot of times it's like, you've, you've got to get a 1169 01:00:46,840 --> 01:00:50,560 certain amount done before they leave town, so we can kind of 1170 01:00:50,560 --> 01:00:54,100 keep on schedule here, which means, yep, we're out here until 1171 01:00:54,100 --> 01:00:56,620 10 or 11 or 12 o'clock, you know? And that's fun, though, 1172 01:00:56,620 --> 01:00:59,260 when that happens, because you're also, you're like, that's 1173 01:00:59,260 --> 01:01:02,820 like camp, like you're dug in, focused on one, one thing and 1174 01:01:02,820 --> 01:01:06,360 one thing only, yeah, and it's like coffee and making a record, 1175 01:01:06,360 --> 01:01:08,880 and that's, that's, that's all the world's your coffee intake 1176 01:01:08,880 --> 01:01:11,700 is high during the day, during those days especially, yeah. I 1177 01:01:11,700 --> 01:01:16,260 mean, I give myself a score, you know? I just, I'll do it, do it 1178 01:01:16,260 --> 01:01:19,140 with a smile on my face. It's just a thing in the studio. No, 1179 01:01:19,200 --> 01:01:22,160 it's gonna stay away from the bagel. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We got 1180 01:01:22,160 --> 01:01:24,740 a really good bagel place out by us too. It's dangerous, yeah, 1181 01:01:24,740 --> 01:01:25,940 yeah, when you 1182 01:01:26,420 --> 01:01:31,760 were talking about songwriting, and I guess by app, by accident, 1183 01:01:32,060 --> 01:01:35,720 getting into it, you know, while they're making adjustments to 1184 01:01:35,720 --> 01:01:38,900 the song right there in the studio. I mean, there's like, 1185 01:01:38,960 --> 01:01:43,240 steps of Moxie. I guess that has to happen. I know it did for me, 1186 01:01:43,480 --> 01:01:46,420 where you'd kind of like, Okay, I'll try that. You know, your 1187 01:01:46,420 --> 01:01:49,840 little stair steps to where you want to be, you know, even like, 1188 01:01:49,840 --> 01:01:53,080 hey, I'll adjust the fader for you. And that's how you get into 1189 01:01:53,080 --> 01:01:55,420 mixing and stuff like that. I've always wondered, 1190 01:01:59,560 --> 01:02:00,460 I've always wondered, 1191 01:02:01,900 --> 01:02:06,300 you know, I've always wondered, like, if you walk past somebody 1192 01:02:06,300 --> 01:02:09,240 writing a song and they're like, hung up on a phrase and it's 1193 01:02:09,240 --> 01:02:12,180 like, right in your head, you just blurt it out, and you're 1194 01:02:12,180 --> 01:02:13,800 like, co write, credit. 1195 01:02:14,460 --> 01:02:16,200 Is it worth the old word for a third? 1196 01:02:17,940 --> 01:02:20,900 Is that what that's called? Yes, no. 1197 01:02:20,900 --> 01:02:24,980 I mean, I think especially, more than almost any other aspect of 1198 01:02:25,040 --> 01:02:29,480 of the creative process, from writing to the the final 1199 01:02:29,480 --> 01:02:33,680 product, the writing is not something I insert myself in 1200 01:02:33,980 --> 01:02:38,480 without being asked, asked and invited, and I'm totally cool to 1201 01:02:38,480 --> 01:02:41,620 produce and mix records that I had no writing on I'm not I'm 1202 01:02:41,620 --> 01:02:44,680 not a writer producer that wants to write the song and then 1203 01:02:44,680 --> 01:02:48,400 produce it to make sure it gets out. But I have found that 1204 01:02:49,000 --> 01:02:53,380 writing with artists is a really great way to develop a rapport 1205 01:02:53,380 --> 01:02:56,380 with that artist and develop a relationship and a trust factor, 1206 01:02:56,380 --> 01:02:59,740 and it's just a good way for them to get to know me, and we 1207 01:02:59,740 --> 01:03:02,700 can demo things in the process, and they can kind of see what 1208 01:03:02,700 --> 01:03:05,700 it's like to work with me on some stuff, and just a good way 1209 01:03:05,700 --> 01:03:07,980 to try stuff out before everybody's on the hook. Are 1210 01:03:07,980 --> 01:03:08,580 there people in 1211 01:03:08,580 --> 01:03:12,540 that like that in the business? Oh, there's bug. The word you're 1212 01:03:12,540 --> 01:03:17,520 looking for is, indubitably, I regret it. Well, you know, 1213 01:03:18,060 --> 01:03:21,740 you're not really gonna be in the room on like, just a sole 1214 01:03:21,740 --> 01:03:25,400 writer session. But, I mean, there's more hanger ons when 1215 01:03:25,400 --> 01:03:28,340 you're working collectively like that in the studio. But usually 1216 01:03:28,520 --> 01:03:31,700 you know, you know the etiquette is to be, I mean, every cut that 1217 01:03:31,700 --> 01:03:35,420 I ever had with my five little years of writing songs, I was in 1218 01:03:35,420 --> 01:03:39,020 the room with the artist, yeah, and now I was talking to 1219 01:03:39,020 --> 01:03:41,680 somebody. They're not even publishing companies aren't 1220 01:03:41,680 --> 01:03:49,000 signing down the middle corporate songwriters. They're 1221 01:03:49,000 --> 01:03:54,100 hiring artists to develop, yeah, you know, they're not just, you 1222 01:03:54,100 --> 01:03:57,640 know, hiring guys that just sing Okay, and they can get the 1223 01:03:57,640 --> 01:03:59,980 melody across, and they know the craft of songwriting. They're 1224 01:03:59,980 --> 01:04:00,600 hiring just 1225 01:04:00,600 --> 01:04:04,140 straight up, artists, staff writers are in, yeah, not as 1226 01:04:04,140 --> 01:04:04,680 much of a in 1227 01:04:04,680 --> 01:04:07,320 decline. And demos are in decline. And there are demos 1228 01:04:07,320 --> 01:04:10,440 that are done, but they're usually done by two people, a 1229 01:04:10,440 --> 01:04:13,620 track guy, and somebody that's going to sing it, right? And so 1230 01:04:13,620 --> 01:04:16,980 for us guys that that was, that was an outlet. There was there 1231 01:04:16,980 --> 01:04:22,220 was the demo scene as a drummer, there was the custom record, you 1232 01:04:22,220 --> 01:04:25,580 know, Tex may hand is coming into town, and he saved $10,000 1233 01:04:26,180 --> 01:04:28,640 and we're gonna crank out songs for him, and boom, he's gonna 1234 01:04:28,820 --> 01:04:31,220 cover lunch for us. It's gonna be a great day. And then there 1235 01:04:31,220 --> 01:04:35,900 was the low budget masters, and then there was master recordings 1236 01:04:35,900 --> 01:04:41,020 that get end up on records at Walmart and Tarjay and all that 1237 01:04:41,020 --> 01:04:44,200 kind of stuff. And now the demo thing completely gone. 1238 01:04:44,260 --> 01:04:46,960 Pretty much gone. Yeah, pretty much gone. So when I met you, 1239 01:04:46,960 --> 01:04:49,060 and you were doing all, like, three sessions 1240 01:04:49,060 --> 01:04:52,480 a day every Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, it was a lot of 1241 01:04:52,480 --> 01:04:55,180 demos, publishing demos. It was a lot of custom doesn't happen 1242 01:04:55,180 --> 01:04:57,640 anymore, not the demos, really. 1243 01:04:57,640 --> 01:04:59,920 No, they do them in the rights most of the time, you know. And. 1244 01:05:00,000 --> 01:05:03,240 And so the the that's part of, that's more of a scratch 1245 01:05:03,240 --> 01:05:05,040 track. I would think, not 1246 01:05:05,040 --> 01:05:09,240 anymore. Virtual instruments, yeah, they sound so they bang 1247 01:05:09,240 --> 01:05:11,640 out a lot of stuff pretty quick, and they get the idea across. 1248 01:05:11,640 --> 01:05:14,340 And I do it a little. I mean, I've seen people that, you know, 1249 01:05:14,340 --> 01:05:16,320 they're, they're, yeah, their track guide demo that happens in 1250 01:05:16,320 --> 01:05:18,480 the right maybe gets finished that afternoon, or whatever, 1251 01:05:18,480 --> 01:05:21,200 sounds kind of like a record. I mean, I don't do that because I 1252 01:05:21,200 --> 01:05:24,260 want there to be a big difference between that and the 1253 01:05:24,260 --> 01:05:26,660 record that we're going to hopefully make. And also want 1254 01:05:26,660 --> 01:05:30,080 to, I don't want to pigeon hole us in with two hours worth of 1255 01:05:30,080 --> 01:05:32,960 ideas that we have to now live with forever, but, but a lot of 1256 01:05:33,020 --> 01:05:36,620 times it makes sense to do it that way. And yeah, a lot of 1257 01:05:36,620 --> 01:05:41,200 times I'm filling in as a writer. I'm filling in whatever 1258 01:05:41,200 --> 01:05:43,900 the room needs. If the two, if there's three of us and two of 1259 01:05:43,900 --> 01:05:47,440 them are lyric people, and they are just, they're they're moving 1260 01:05:47,500 --> 01:05:51,520 like I've learned to get very comfortable just sitting still 1261 01:05:51,520 --> 01:05:54,520 and doing nothing. Sometimes it's just, it's my place, and 1262 01:05:54,520 --> 01:05:58,000 I'm here to help where I'm needed. If it's turning on a 1263 01:05:58,000 --> 01:06:00,400 microphone at the end and getting a scratch vocal, yeah, 1264 01:06:00,400 --> 01:06:02,880 that's fine. If it's building a little bit of a track for you 1265 01:06:02,880 --> 01:06:05,880 guys to get going on. Great. If it's lyric writing with you, 1266 01:06:05,880 --> 01:06:09,240 that's great. But I don't, I don't try to, like, wedge myself 1267 01:06:09,240 --> 01:06:09,960 into that 1268 01:06:10,380 --> 01:06:14,400 role, and I usually go right for arrangement and lyrics. Yeah, 1269 01:06:14,400 --> 01:06:17,220 when I, when I was the Lyric, I mean, I guess it's like, a Neil 1270 01:06:17,220 --> 01:06:19,080 appear thing. You know, what 1271 01:06:19,080 --> 01:06:22,040 percentage of the time do you guys come across something where 1272 01:06:22,040 --> 01:06:26,660 you're like, oh my gosh, great idea. Just gold. What's the 1273 01:06:26,660 --> 01:06:27,980 pretty rare, right? Yeah. 1274 01:06:27,980 --> 01:06:31,640 I mean, yeah, yeah. I think it's gonna be huge. Yeah, yeah. I 1275 01:06:31,640 --> 01:06:36,200 mean, if you write with good writers, hope most of the time 1276 01:06:36,260 --> 01:06:39,200 you you can get somewhere that you're happy with at least. Then 1277 01:06:39,260 --> 01:06:39,800 How often 1278 01:06:39,800 --> 01:06:41,200 are you saying myself, 1279 01:06:42,700 --> 01:06:45,520 this is just garbage. This is awful. Sometimes, 1280 01:06:45,520 --> 01:06:48,100 for sure, a lot of times, a lot of times, and a lot of times 1281 01:06:48,100 --> 01:06:50,260 you, I mean, there are times numbers game, yeah. And 1282 01:06:50,260 --> 01:06:53,080 sometimes you get an hour and a half into a three hour right? 1283 01:06:53,080 --> 01:06:55,720 And look up and everybody just goes, Yes, isn't happening. 1284 01:06:56,860 --> 01:07:00,840 Let's reset our ears. I've got, I'd make the computer crash. 1285 01:07:00,900 --> 01:07:05,520 There's a cat in town, Dave, Dave Goodwin, and he is also an 1286 01:07:05,520 --> 01:07:11,340 artist, and he has this. It's like pop art. It's almost like 1287 01:07:11,340 --> 01:07:16,920 the Warhol Campbell soup can, yeah, and it says, verse, 1288 01:07:17,220 --> 01:07:27,020 chorus, bridge, lunch. Chorus two, verse two, chorus two. And 1289 01:07:27,380 --> 01:07:30,920 it's true, because verse two is always a problem. Verse Two is 1290 01:07:30,920 --> 01:07:33,440 the always the heart. It's usually always after lunch. Why 1291 01:07:33,440 --> 01:07:35,900 is that? It's just coming up with the next tickets for a 1292 01:07:35,900 --> 01:07:38,840 minute there. Like all country songs had, like little twists in 1293 01:07:38,840 --> 01:07:40,720 them. Remember where they had the twists? Yeah, we're 1294 01:07:40,720 --> 01:07:43,720 back to kind of like a some of those, that double entendre, 1295 01:07:43,720 --> 01:07:44,020 yeah, I 1296 01:07:47,260 --> 01:07:48,460 can't think of one like 1297 01:07:50,260 --> 01:07:54,100 homeboy. Let's just take you know Eric Church, homeboy, yeah, 1298 01:07:54,160 --> 01:07:58,780 you think of what the typical, what you would imagine? You 1299 01:07:58,780 --> 01:08:02,400 imagine a homeboy, yeah, but he managed to, I think, paint three 1300 01:08:02,400 --> 01:08:05,220 pictures off that term in that song. Totally. That doesn't 1301 01:08:05,220 --> 01:08:06,660 really happen anymore. I guess, like, a 1302 01:08:06,660 --> 01:08:10,560 chorus is, like a big idea, right? So if you come in with 1303 01:08:10,560 --> 01:08:13,800 that big idea, sometimes that falls out pretty quick, because 1304 01:08:13,800 --> 01:08:15,960 you're, you're, you kind of know where you're going. The first 1305 01:08:15,960 --> 01:08:19,320 verse sets up that big idea. And just like maybe writing an 1306 01:08:19,320 --> 01:08:22,100 episode of television or a novel, that second verse is 1307 01:08:22,100 --> 01:08:24,920 like, that development. That's where, that's where everything 1308 01:08:24,920 --> 01:08:28,160 has, like, how are we progressing? Yeah, from now that 1309 01:08:28,160 --> 01:08:32,240 you know this big idea now, how do we, like expand on it? Yeah, 1310 01:08:32,240 --> 01:08:35,060 that's, that's why I think it's always the at least for me, 1311 01:08:35,060 --> 01:08:35,600 that's why it's 1312 01:08:35,600 --> 01:08:38,600 always challenging. And that that piece of pop art is hanging 1313 01:08:38,600 --> 01:08:41,920 in about 50 different publishing Yeah, companies on the row. And 1314 01:08:41,920 --> 01:08:44,260 I bought one from him, and I framed it up, and it's in my 1315 01:08:44,260 --> 01:08:46,660 house. People, songwriters will come by and be like, Oh my god, 1316 01:08:46,660 --> 01:08:47,560 that is so true. Yeah, you 1317 01:08:47,559 --> 01:08:49,959 guys want to be a successful songwriter. Let me tell you the 1318 01:08:49,959 --> 01:08:54,999 secret. Okay, yeah, that book right back there behind yours 1319 01:08:55,179 --> 01:08:58,539 pendulum. We're about to go through essentially, what was 1320 01:08:58,539 --> 01:09:02,759 19? Well, we should be in 1945 right now. So anything that's 1321 01:09:02,759 --> 01:09:08,579 like culturally significant from 1945 to 1955 emulate that 1322 01:09:10,439 --> 01:09:13,259 what was going on during that time? I don't know, gotcha, but 1323 01:09:13,260 --> 01:09:16,500 basically, everything happens in cycles. Yeah, everything. 1324 01:09:16,500 --> 01:09:19,260 Oh, okay, I see. I just don't want corduroys to come back. 1325 01:09:19,260 --> 01:09:22,460 They're too heavy. Yeah? And I don't think the noise for oil. I 1326 01:09:22,460 --> 01:09:22,640 mean, 1327 01:09:22,820 --> 01:09:24,860 I'm in the studio all the time, the noise, 1328 01:09:27,140 --> 01:09:29,720 hey, do you realize we were just talking about demos, and how 1329 01:09:29,720 --> 01:09:33,500 demos have gone away that that I moved here early enough in 97 1330 01:09:33,920 --> 01:09:38,240 that when I started getting into demos, you know how detailed 1331 01:09:38,240 --> 01:09:41,200 they are now kick drum patterns, and the drums sound like fully 1332 01:09:41,200 --> 01:09:44,260 developed and there's soft sense, and it sounds like a 1333 01:09:44,260 --> 01:09:47,140 record, right? And so we're chasing that. Sometimes we're 1334 01:09:47,140 --> 01:09:50,380 copying that with our and then just applying our own humanity 1335 01:09:50,500 --> 01:09:55,180 to it. And but man, back in the day, the artists would come to 1336 01:09:55,180 --> 01:09:59,020 the studio, they would strum an acoustic guitar. We tap tempo 1337 01:09:59,020 --> 01:10:03,720 and on a rhythm. Watch, and they would say, think this, think 1338 01:10:03,720 --> 01:10:07,320 that, think Springsteen, think Steve Earl, think Emmy Lou 1339 01:10:07,320 --> 01:10:11,520 Harris, and we would have to know the history of music enough 1340 01:10:11,520 --> 01:10:14,580 to think about a kick drum pattern, and we'd have to copy 1341 01:10:14,580 --> 01:10:17,940 that tempo. And it would, it took a while, yeah. And we were 1342 01:10:17,940 --> 01:10:21,440 all realizing that on the floor democratically, of course, with 1343 01:10:21,440 --> 01:10:25,700 the songwriter having the total veto, right, power of veto. But 1344 01:10:25,700 --> 01:10:28,280 now it's so fleshy. How about 1345 01:10:28,280 --> 01:10:30,440 all those times that they came in and they played the song and 1346 01:10:30,440 --> 01:10:32,840 it sounded just like George straight, and they said, like, 1347 01:10:33,020 --> 01:10:35,960 think Devo and you're going that. How am I going to do that? 1348 01:10:35,960 --> 01:10:38,600 Oh yes, that doesn't work that. That's not how that works, you 1349 01:10:38,600 --> 01:10:40,280 know? But yeah, yeah, yeah, instead of 1350 01:10:40,280 --> 01:10:48,280 doing dude, got it in. Say, crazy. 1351 01:10:50,200 --> 01:10:53,860 But you think that style of songwriting, and, you know, Song 1352 01:10:53,860 --> 01:10:56,980 making will ever make a comeback, because it's almost 1353 01:10:56,980 --> 01:11:00,900 like the evolution of food, you know, farm to table has now 1354 01:11:00,900 --> 01:11:04,320 become very big. I would imagine music is going to go through 1355 01:11:04,320 --> 01:11:07,620 that kind of an evolution, like, is the music we're listening to 1356 01:11:07,620 --> 01:11:10,020 right now, like GMO modified. 1357 01:11:10,080 --> 01:11:15,420 I think you're already seeing it in, like, the the the big word 1358 01:11:15,420 --> 01:11:17,820 is the indie world, but like in the country world, the alt 1359 01:11:17,820 --> 01:11:20,240 country world, the Jason is supposed and those, they're 1360 01:11:20,240 --> 01:11:22,820 already, they're already back to that. It's already very much 1361 01:11:22,820 --> 01:11:26,360 humanity, yeah. I mean, you know, Jason throws his band in 1362 01:11:26,360 --> 01:11:29,300 rcaa, and they cut most of it live on the floor, and they 1363 01:11:29,300 --> 01:11:32,240 don't hear the songs, I don't think, until right that minute 1364 01:11:32,240 --> 01:11:35,240 he plays, which is nice, yeah, you know. And so it's, it's 1365 01:11:35,240 --> 01:11:38,000 humanity in it, yeah? And that's why those things have a huge, 1366 01:11:38,360 --> 01:11:41,140 huge fan bases. People feel that too. And they, you know, both 1367 01:11:41,440 --> 01:11:43,660 stool are they still playing with a click, though, 1368 01:11:43,900 --> 01:11:45,340 I don't know. Depends 1369 01:11:45,340 --> 01:11:48,160 on the song, like, if they can't get the feel or whatever. I 1370 01:11:48,160 --> 01:11:52,780 mean, it's, it's a tool, but, I mean, look at Dave Cobbs 1371 01:11:52,780 --> 01:11:56,440 production. It's like, so raw. And the, you know, we had Chris 1372 01:11:56,440 --> 01:12:00,520 Powell on. He's like, Dude, I've used the smallest sticks, and 1373 01:12:00,580 --> 01:12:04,380 hits so lightly, and the frees are just cranked, yeah, it's 1374 01:12:04,380 --> 01:12:08,820 like the Joey warrinker thing, okay, you know, we're, we're, if 1375 01:12:09,060 --> 01:12:10,020 sounds great, yeah. 1376 01:12:12,000 --> 01:12:15,720 He plays literally, like with chopsticks, but they sit on huge 1377 01:12:15,840 --> 01:12:20,900 and he just, but the engineer opens up the pres all the way 1378 01:12:20,900 --> 01:12:24,620 the compressors, yeah, yeah. Oh, the compression, yeah, yeah, and 1379 01:12:24,620 --> 01:12:25,520 the priest. It's 1380 01:12:25,820 --> 01:12:29,120 back when we recorded the big album for Connecticut, white 1381 01:12:29,120 --> 01:12:29,840 bread. Oh, 1382 01:12:29,840 --> 01:12:35,120 no, yeah, no. Click, Jim will mention his band from 20 years 1383 01:12:35,120 --> 01:12:36,380 ago. Oh, over three 1384 01:12:36,620 --> 01:12:39,380 like 35 years ago. Episode, yeah, so 1385 01:12:40,880 --> 01:12:44,320 yeah, no, click, just play the song from memory. It was our 1386 01:12:44,320 --> 01:12:47,440 demo four song, demo that we spent $600 on. You sound pretty 1387 01:12:47,440 --> 01:12:49,000 good, buddy. No, didn't 1388 01:12:50,260 --> 01:12:52,180 it was 1995 1389 01:12:53,500 --> 01:12:56,260 like a good, you know, rap rock drummer before it was cool, you 1390 01:12:56,260 --> 01:13:00,120 know, yeah, we had very unsavory songs. Oh yeah, 1391 01:13:00,120 --> 01:13:02,760 they were very salacious. I 1392 01:13:02,760 --> 01:13:07,080 did not partake in any of the songwriting. Just gonna clear my 1393 01:13:07,080 --> 01:13:08,940 name right now, before I get canceled, Jim, 1394 01:13:09,000 --> 01:13:12,060 look up some of those crazy internet questions and pick two 1395 01:13:12,060 --> 01:13:14,040 of them. But in the meantime, what's your favorite 1396 01:13:14,220 --> 01:13:17,160 color? Let's go with blue, damn it. There we go. What's your 1397 01:13:17,160 --> 01:13:18,000 favorite food? 1398 01:13:19,200 --> 01:13:22,760 Mexican food. So because it says here on your bullet points. So 1399 01:13:22,760 --> 01:13:26,060 you sent me, let's talk about the best place to get tacos, 1400 01:13:26,060 --> 01:13:28,760 right? Is it mas tacos? I think it's MOS tacos, okay, because I 1401 01:13:28,760 --> 01:13:31,640 was right there last night across the street at lag Lyra, 1402 01:13:31,700 --> 01:13:34,760 yeah, Lira, yeah. It's Mediterranean food. And I had 1403 01:13:34,760 --> 01:13:40,720 the fish, I had the chicken, and I had the lamb, and we had the 1404 01:13:40,720 --> 01:13:45,040 potatoes. We had the the the Middle Eastern, you know, non 1405 01:13:45,040 --> 01:13:50,980 type bread. We had humus. It's not hummus. Hummus, yeah, and I 1406 01:13:50,980 --> 01:13:54,460 was digging in with near z. We had that we share some hummus 1407 01:13:54,460 --> 01:13:58,360 together. And that area is amazing because I also tried the 1408 01:13:58,360 --> 01:14:00,300 pharmacy for the first time, living all these years in 1409 01:14:00,300 --> 01:14:02,760 Nashville, had never been there, never had a pharmacy burger eat 1410 01:14:02,760 --> 01:14:06,120 outside. No, it's cold. Oh, okay, you got to go there when 1411 01:14:06,120 --> 01:14:08,340 it's warming up. Awesome, yeah, but that's where so Larry 1412 01:14:08,340 --> 01:14:12,180 aberman And I always go to moss taco, yeah, and they have the 1413 01:14:12,180 --> 01:14:15,900 fried they had the fried guac and the avocados, 1414 01:14:15,960 --> 01:14:18,840 yeah, the fried avocado taco and the plantains, yeah, yeah. 1415 01:14:18,960 --> 01:14:21,860 But what do you like? Just a street taco vibe, yeah. 1416 01:14:21,860 --> 01:14:25,040 I mean, yeah. I mean, all the time in Texas too. The Tex Mex, 1417 01:14:25,040 --> 01:14:27,800 great. Don't you miss it? Yeah? Remember 1418 01:14:27,800 --> 01:14:30,560 they have street corn when you were there in Texas? Yeah, yeah, 1419 01:14:30,560 --> 01:14:31,700 that's, it's delicious. You 1420 01:14:31,700 --> 01:14:34,760 can get that from, uh, there's a place. There's a food truck in 1421 01:14:34,760 --> 01:14:37,340 East Nashville. Now that's doing great street corn. I can really 1422 01:14:37,340 --> 01:14:39,380 name it, but yeah, yeah. Last 1423 01:14:39,380 --> 01:14:43,420 time I had it was in Miami at the rusty the rusty pelican. And 1424 01:14:43,900 --> 01:14:47,260 it was one of these places I had to do a shoot down there in 1425 01:14:47,440 --> 01:14:51,400 downtown Miami. Yeah, and on the way to Key Biscayne, it was 1426 01:14:51,400 --> 01:14:53,740 like, it looked like a hole in the wall. So I'm like, this is 1427 01:14:53,740 --> 01:14:56,020 perfect. There's a little bar. Pull up, whatever, have some 1428 01:14:56,020 --> 01:14:59,680 dinner. I was gonna head back to the hotel, and I pull up. It's 1429 01:14:59,680 --> 01:15:03,600 like. A luxurious gourmet restaurant, yes? And I'm like, 1430 01:15:03,660 --> 01:15:05,940 Okay, I'm not dressed for this. Yeah, people are in black tie. 1431 01:15:05,940 --> 01:15:10,200 Put me at a seat at the bar. I had a nice steak and street corn 1432 01:15:10,200 --> 01:15:12,000 instead of potato. It was unbelievable, 1433 01:15:12,180 --> 01:15:15,900 amazing. I know you're you and I were talking about this, but 1434 01:15:16,140 --> 01:15:19,320 what is your favorite drink when you are doing it? 1435 01:15:20,160 --> 01:15:23,540 Well, if it was cocktail there, I became quite an old fashioned 1436 01:15:23,540 --> 01:15:26,000 aficionado for a while. So you make them at the house, yeah? 1437 01:15:26,000 --> 01:15:30,440 But I kind of got to where just a good bourbon on the rocks is 1438 01:15:30,440 --> 01:15:34,040 good. That's it. Yeah, bourbon on the angels envy would be my 1439 01:15:34,460 --> 01:15:38,120 nice and they're angels rye. I mean, it's really expensive, but 1440 01:15:38,120 --> 01:15:40,660 it's, it's really good. Now, what's the 1441 01:15:40,660 --> 01:15:42,760 difference again, between the bourbon and the rides, the 1442 01:15:42,760 --> 01:15:46,000 treatments, the process, the barreling or something? Bourbon? 1443 01:15:46,000 --> 01:15:46,540 Basically, 1444 01:15:46,540 --> 01:15:50,740 whiskey, yeah, yeah. Whiskey, yeah. I think it has to be made 1445 01:15:50,740 --> 01:15:52,840 in Kentucky. I don't know that might have been right back 1446 01:15:52,900 --> 01:15:53,380 shame. 1447 01:15:54,100 --> 01:15:57,940 Podcast, no, we need a guy like Joe Rogan. Hey, he's on the 1448 01:15:57,940 --> 01:16:01,440 computer the whole time. Well, his name Francis, sometimes 1449 01:16:01,500 --> 01:16:05,100 Jamie, sometimes Jim will do it. What's your favorite drummer of 1450 01:16:05,160 --> 01:16:10,260 all time? Man, yeah, it's really hard because you like one guy, 1451 01:16:10,260 --> 01:16:13,560 because he plays ballads great you you like, you know, yeah, 1452 01:16:13,560 --> 01:16:18,180 this person for this I'm still going with gad. Yeah, best all 1453 01:16:18,180 --> 01:16:20,460 around drummer, yeah, in the history of the universe, yeah. 1454 01:16:20,460 --> 01:16:23,480 Plays everything. Feels great all the time. 80 years young. 1455 01:16:23,480 --> 01:16:28,100 Yeah, it's pretty amazing to think that he's probably one of 1456 01:16:28,100 --> 01:16:32,900 these guys that has never rushed or dragged ever in his entire 1457 01:16:32,900 --> 01:16:33,680 life. Yeah, 1458 01:16:33,800 --> 01:16:34,700 probably when he's young. 1459 01:16:35,720 --> 01:16:38,060 I don't know, who just don't know. Yeah, maybe he had to 1460 01:16:38,060 --> 01:16:41,380 start somewhere. Man, nobody's perfect. It's always, always 1461 01:16:41,380 --> 01:16:43,840 feels very measured, though, doesn't it? Like, so 1462 01:16:43,840 --> 01:16:44,440 intentional, 1463 01:16:44,440 --> 01:16:48,940 so intentional, yeah, because the band could be pushing so far 1464 01:16:48,940 --> 01:16:53,020 ahead, and he has the ability to just sit on it, yeah, but not 1465 01:16:53,020 --> 01:16:55,420 make it uncomfortable. It's like, just, you know, it's all 1466 01:16:55,420 --> 01:16:58,180 the time in the trenches, the 10s of 1000s of hours. I just 1467 01:16:58,300 --> 01:17:01,620 think it's great that you've been here for 16 years. I think, 1468 01:17:01,740 --> 01:17:06,300 yeah, around 16 years, and you, you have just grown this amazing 1469 01:17:06,300 --> 01:17:09,060 skill set. And you know, you got a roof over your head, you got a 1470 01:17:09,060 --> 01:17:13,140 family. You got the two dogs, yeah, get a life. Have a life. 1471 01:17:13,140 --> 01:17:16,260 It's here, yeah, I parents must be proud. You still got your 1472 01:17:16,260 --> 01:17:17,640 parents. Yes, yeah, Lucky 1473 01:17:17,700 --> 01:17:20,360 still have the family. And do they come visit? They do, yeah, 1474 01:17:20,360 --> 01:17:23,300 yeah, yeah. And it's, yeah, it's, it's, I don't know if you 1475 01:17:23,300 --> 01:17:27,560 do this, but it's, it's, so I bet you do, though, it's easy to 1476 01:17:28,100 --> 01:17:30,800 always be looking for the next thing and ahead, oh yeah. It's 1477 01:17:30,800 --> 01:17:32,960 tough sometimes to look, look around and realize, like, oh 1478 01:17:32,960 --> 01:17:35,240 yeah, I've been doing this for 16 years, and I'm not worried 1479 01:17:35,240 --> 01:17:37,760 about paying the mortgage and the hell that happened. Like, 1480 01:17:37,760 --> 01:17:39,980 you know, that's good. And that lasts about three seconds, and 1481 01:17:39,980 --> 01:17:41,240 then it's back to, like, you're like, 1482 01:17:41,240 --> 01:17:43,420 worried about the next thing. Let's get back to let's get back 1483 01:17:43,420 --> 01:17:48,340 to securing our relevance. Yeah, yeah. So much fun. It's amazing. 1484 01:17:48,400 --> 01:17:50,860 Well, it's endless. And, you know, you know, Jim and I have a 1485 01:17:50,860 --> 01:17:54,220 common bond is that we're, we're entrepreneurs, and you 1486 01:17:54,220 --> 01:17:56,200 essentially are too, yeah, you know what? I mean, it's like, 1487 01:17:56,200 --> 01:17:59,740 we're all essentially working for ourselves. Yeah, you gotta 1488 01:17:59,740 --> 01:18:05,160 have a business mind, and we do. I mean, I mean, yeah, I know so 1489 01:18:05,160 --> 01:18:09,300 many creatives that don't Yeah, and many times their career 1490 01:18:09,300 --> 01:18:09,900 reflects 1491 01:18:09,900 --> 01:18:12,480 that, yeah, it's tough to stay in it. It's tough to have 1492 01:18:12,480 --> 01:18:16,080 longevity if you don't have enough organization to keep, 1493 01:18:16,080 --> 01:18:16,860 keep the business 1494 01:18:16,860 --> 01:18:20,060 organizational skills and some I mean, of course, I take it to a 1495 01:18:20,060 --> 01:18:23,660 whole other level. And I'm probably get tons of shit for 1496 01:18:23,660 --> 01:18:26,600 it, but it's just, you know, the idea of, you know, always 1497 01:18:26,960 --> 01:18:28,040 shagging the trees, 1498 01:18:28,100 --> 01:18:31,040 yeah, you have to. It's called prosper. You have to. I mean, 1499 01:18:31,040 --> 01:18:33,200 everything's a hustle. And, like, that's the whole, I mean, 1500 01:18:33,200 --> 01:18:36,740 I joked earlier that my half my life is scheduling. It's not 1501 01:18:36,740 --> 01:18:42,520 but, but literally, a third of my work is developing new 1502 01:18:42,520 --> 01:18:46,180 opportunities like that. That is absolutely like, that is 1503 01:18:46,480 --> 01:18:50,440 intentionally, like, 33% of my time, yeah, is devoted to, 1504 01:18:50,560 --> 01:18:53,680 are you going out, like an A and R guy to check out talent? No, 1505 01:18:53,680 --> 01:18:54,160 not a 1506 01:18:54,160 --> 01:18:57,700 ton. I do a little bit, but a lot of mine is, is, is done 1507 01:18:57,700 --> 01:19:01,920 through the artists I'm already working with, the CO writes, and 1508 01:19:01,920 --> 01:19:05,700 as long as if I can keep it that way, I do. And when that starts, 1509 01:19:05,760 --> 01:19:09,120 when I feel like the the tide is pulling out, then I start going 1510 01:19:09,120 --> 01:19:11,640 out a bunch more. You know, word of mouth, referrals, that's 1511 01:19:11,640 --> 01:19:14,040 always the best, building relationships from that small, 1512 01:19:14,040 --> 01:19:16,260 little nucleus outward. Yeah, it's too 1513 01:19:16,260 --> 01:19:18,660 bad you never heard Connecticut white bread. Man, you'd be like, 1514 01:19:18,720 --> 01:19:21,320 who says I haven't I missed a golden opportunity. Jim, what's 1515 01:19:21,320 --> 01:19:23,600 your question that you would love to ask, buddy, which body 1516 01:19:23,600 --> 01:19:25,940 part do you wish you could detach and why? 1517 01:19:27,680 --> 01:19:30,380 Lately it's been my right foot, because it's been killing me. 1518 01:19:30,440 --> 01:19:31,280 So, yeah, really, 1519 01:19:31,880 --> 01:19:34,460 yeah. What's the most imaginary from the bass drum? 1520 01:19:34,760 --> 01:19:38,180 I think so really, bass drum walking too much. Yeah. 1521 01:19:38,900 --> 01:19:42,580 What's the most imaginative, imaginative insult you can come 1522 01:19:42,580 --> 01:19:43,060 up with, 1523 01:19:44,440 --> 01:19:47,560 oh, that's kind of unfair to put somebody on the spot for it is 1524 01:19:47,560 --> 01:19:51,640 true the most imaginative insult, Hey, look. 1525 01:19:52,540 --> 01:19:57,220 Cock face, bear, put you in your place over there. Cock face, you 1526 01:19:57,220 --> 01:19:59,920 look like Andy Garcia stuck his tongue in an electrical socket. 1527 01:20:00,540 --> 01:20:04,140 Oh, my God, it's amazing. I'll take Andy. 1528 01:20:05,400 --> 01:20:09,000 Garcia, you did really good buddy. You do great improv 1529 01:20:09,000 --> 01:20:12,240 comedy. You got to create something out of nothing. Jim, I 1530 01:20:12,300 --> 01:20:15,060 thought you were gonna ask him about his cover band. He told me 1531 01:20:15,060 --> 01:20:16,860 to ask the weird questions, tribute band. 1532 01:20:17,880 --> 01:20:20,760 Okay, what's the tribute, man? What's the tribute 1533 01:20:21,480 --> 01:20:23,120 for the rest of your life. For the rest of 1534 01:20:23,120 --> 01:20:25,700 your life, you can't do anything else. Oh, it's the only music I 1535 01:20:25,700 --> 01:20:29,480 get to play that to the day you die, you cannot freaking 1536 01:20:29,540 --> 01:20:33,140 vacillate. It's got to be the same song over and over. Okay? 1537 01:20:33,140 --> 01:20:33,440 So 1538 01:20:33,500 --> 01:20:36,020 that either means one of two things. You either want to play 1539 01:20:36,020 --> 01:20:38,240 music that you love enough to play all the time, or you want 1540 01:20:38,240 --> 01:20:41,680 to play shit you hate so that you don't ruin something that 1541 01:20:41,680 --> 01:20:45,640 you love, and I'm gonna play something that I don't care for 1542 01:20:45,880 --> 01:20:49,480 one way or the other. Yeah, really, I'm just like, I'll just 1543 01:20:49,480 --> 01:20:52,780 pick something like playing like a Buddy Holly tribute band for 1544 01:20:52,780 --> 01:20:55,900 the rest of my life. Because completely, yeah, that way I 1545 01:20:56,500 --> 01:20:59,620 don't ruin any music I love by just driving it into the 1546 01:20:59,680 --> 01:21:03,840 ground. You're not gonna ruin it. So using your God given 1547 01:21:03,840 --> 01:21:09,540 ability to lift this music up, but use the inspiration from the 1548 01:21:09,540 --> 01:21:13,560 original drummer as a launching pad. What is that? Is it the 1549 01:21:13,560 --> 01:21:18,180 police? Is it Zeppelin? Is it rush? Is it in steely? Dan, ooh, 1550 01:21:19,200 --> 01:21:23,480 yeah. I mean, man, the police might be on that list, right? 1551 01:21:23,480 --> 01:21:23,900 Yeah, 1552 01:21:24,200 --> 01:21:28,640 because it's, it's super high energy. Yeah, it's challenging. 1553 01:21:29,120 --> 01:21:29,240 It 1554 01:21:29,240 --> 01:21:33,500 is, yeah, it has some room to to play with too. It's not super 1555 01:21:33,500 --> 01:21:37,400 rigid, right? Like Stuart's doing the thing, but he's doing 1556 01:21:37,400 --> 01:21:39,260 different things. So yeah, yeah, 1557 01:21:39,260 --> 01:21:44,920 his take on his drum parts now, yeah, 3540 years later, are so 1558 01:21:44,920 --> 01:21:46,960 different, yeah, because he's a different drummer. He's a 1559 01:21:46,960 --> 01:21:50,920 different human being. He got into production, composition, 1560 01:21:50,920 --> 01:21:54,760 orchestration. He's another guy that just went off the rails. 1561 01:21:54,820 --> 01:21:58,900 So, so, like I My thing is, I really am just so impressed, 1562 01:21:58,900 --> 01:22:02,160 because, well, you know, maybe I went off the rails a little bit. 1563 01:22:02,160 --> 01:22:05,460 I mean, I went out to Hollywood and expanded my skill set. I do 1564 01:22:05,460 --> 01:22:10,020 motivational speaking. I do tons of teaching. Yeah, any interest 1565 01:22:10,740 --> 01:22:10,860 in 1566 01:22:10,860 --> 01:22:13,860 that? Man, I'm getting more interested in it again now, 1567 01:22:13,860 --> 01:22:16,200 yeah, I didn't want to hustle it for a long time because I was 1568 01:22:16,200 --> 01:22:18,300 focusing on other stuff. Yeah. And now, I think if there were 1569 01:22:18,300 --> 01:22:20,900 opportunities to teach, especially some of what I'm 1570 01:22:20,960 --> 01:22:24,500 doing, production stuff, mixed stuff, to other musicians, I'd 1571 01:22:24,500 --> 01:22:27,320 be kind of interested. Oh, you'd be teaching that, not to drums, 1572 01:22:27,500 --> 01:22:30,560 yeah. I mean, I could teach some drums here and there, but it's, 1573 01:22:30,560 --> 01:22:32,600 I'm not, man, that's like anything else you're doing all 1574 01:22:32,600 --> 01:22:35,420 the time. That's a, you know that the good teachers, that's a 1575 01:22:35,420 --> 01:22:38,120 skill set they have. That's a knife that needs to stay sharp 1576 01:22:38,120 --> 01:22:40,840 for it to be really effective. And I'm not in that, in that 1577 01:22:40,900 --> 01:22:41,500 boat right now, 1578 01:22:41,560 --> 01:22:45,340 yeah, but you would, even after wearing an old pair of shoes, 1579 01:22:45,340 --> 01:22:45,580 I'd have 1580 01:22:45,580 --> 01:22:47,080 to work it up again, yeah, 1581 01:22:48,100 --> 01:22:51,160 man, I guess I take it for granted, because I just do it so 1582 01:22:51,160 --> 01:22:53,800 much in different settings, like I do a one on one, I do it in 1583 01:22:53,800 --> 01:22:57,340 person, I do it online. I do it at drum shops. I do it in music 1584 01:22:57,340 --> 01:22:59,260 schools, due to colleges, it's like, yes, 1585 01:22:59,260 --> 01:23:04,320 you can actually hire rich at the drum tensive, the one one on 1586 01:23:05,100 --> 01:23:08,520 it's one on one. Drum tensor, see, it's a little wordplay. 1587 01:23:08,520 --> 01:23:10,140 Drum tensive.com, did 1588 01:23:10,140 --> 01:23:13,440 you get that yet? I locked it down, and I just have to build 1589 01:23:13,440 --> 01:23:17,820 the page. Let me tell you guys, okay, go to drumtensive.com when 1590 01:23:17,820 --> 01:23:20,960 it's available, it's gonna be up there with our merch page 1591 01:23:20,960 --> 01:23:26,960 someday and hire rich the guy is just only $5,000 a day for you 1592 01:23:26,960 --> 01:23:30,380 to come in. Damn Jim, well, you're not far off. That's 1593 01:23:30,380 --> 01:23:35,360 $5,000 you'll ever spend. He'll DJ for you too. He'll DJ for 1594 01:23:35,360 --> 01:23:40,420 you. 10,000 you're gonna go to moss tacos, right? Oh, yeah. And 1595 01:23:41,140 --> 01:23:43,660 no, actually, for the drum tensive, I take him to sushi 1596 01:23:43,660 --> 01:23:45,640 steak. I mean, we don't, we don't fuck around. We 1597 01:23:45,640 --> 01:23:48,220 usually go to sushi. That's what I've been to sushi with you. 1598 01:23:48,220 --> 01:23:48,700 Bucha, yeah. 1599 01:23:48,700 --> 01:23:51,520 Where do we go? Rousseau's down in the Gulch. It was kind of, 1600 01:23:51,520 --> 01:23:55,660 wasn't done yet. It was, like, that kind of place. Oh, sorry, 1601 01:23:55,660 --> 01:23:58,900 but Jim, yeah, I was promoting you, I know. But it's like, not 1602 01:23:58,900 --> 01:24:03,000 sincere. It's like, really. It's like, you know, it's fake. It's 1603 01:24:03,000 --> 01:24:03,660 like, fake news. 1604 01:24:03,660 --> 01:24:10,320 You think I'm being fake China, it's 1605 01:24:13,800 --> 01:24:15,900 no it is genuine. Come on, you know, I believe, 1606 01:24:16,140 --> 01:24:19,620 do I believe in you? I So, so Ben, if people wanted to get in 1607 01:24:19,620 --> 01:24:19,980 touch with 1608 01:24:19,980 --> 01:24:22,640 you, are you.com? Guy? Are you? Yeah, it's Ben Jackson music.com 1609 01:24:23,000 --> 01:24:24,020 Awesome. Yeah, 1610 01:24:24,200 --> 01:24:27,200 yeah. And you can hear clips of your work. And you got some 1611 01:24:27,200 --> 01:24:30,200 stuff with your pictures of your studio up there. Yep, there are, 1612 01:24:30,380 --> 01:24:33,680 yeah, I gotta drop by some time come over. I've been invited to 1613 01:24:33,680 --> 01:24:35,960 Ray luziers place. I've been invited to near these place. 1614 01:24:35,960 --> 01:24:39,500 I've been invited to your place. Why not officially, but why 1615 01:24:41,060 --> 01:24:43,480 don't we do, like, a video series of that? We should, 1616 01:24:43,540 --> 01:24:46,540 you know what? You'll probably you know the ever been on the 1617 01:24:46,600 --> 01:24:48,580 working drummers podcast with Matt Krause. 1618 01:24:48,580 --> 01:24:51,820 Matt just came out and did the filming thing. I was gonna say, 1619 01:24:51,880 --> 01:24:55,300 yeah, he was just on this, wasn't he? Yeah, 1620 01:24:55,660 --> 01:24:58,720 perfect, because he was celebrating 600 episodes. He's 1621 01:24:59,080 --> 01:25:01,620 killed that. I did that. Thing forever ago with him, and it's 1622 01:25:01,620 --> 01:25:03,180 amazing see what it's done. I know just 1623 01:25:03,180 --> 01:25:06,900 well. The thing is, is this an endless parade of guests? 1624 01:25:06,900 --> 01:25:10,440 Because drummers were just so thick as thieves? Yeah, you 1625 01:25:10,440 --> 01:25:12,840 know. And we love hearing each other's stories, because your 1626 01:25:12,840 --> 01:25:15,840 story is completely unique. We went to the same university a 1627 01:25:15,840 --> 01:25:19,080 decade apart. Had the same teachers, the same curriculum, 1628 01:25:19,740 --> 01:25:23,360 the same influences at our fingertips. We moved to the same 1629 01:25:23,360 --> 01:25:28,040 city, and we're doing completely different, yeah, yeah, but I'm 1630 01:25:28,040 --> 01:25:31,460 just a big fan. I'm happy for you, and I'm proud of you, man, 1631 01:25:31,460 --> 01:25:34,340 thanks, dude. Yeah, man, thanks for having me on congratulations 1632 01:25:34,340 --> 01:25:36,980 today, and I'm proud of you. Well, thanks, man. Ben Jackson, 1633 01:25:36,980 --> 01:25:41,140 music.com Jim, when this comes out, I think we're going to be 1634 01:25:41,140 --> 01:25:44,800 on the verge of appearing at the Music City drum show, and that's 1635 01:25:44,800 --> 01:25:47,740 going to be July 19 and 20. You're going to be holding down 1636 01:25:47,740 --> 01:25:51,280 a booth for us on July 19. On the 20th, I'm going to pop in, 1637 01:25:51,400 --> 01:25:53,380 yeah, and we're going to be hanging, we're going to be 1638 01:25:53,380 --> 01:25:55,480 mugging, we're going to have books for sale. We're going to 1639 01:25:55,480 --> 01:25:57,700 have a step and repeat. We're going to have a bunch of merch 1640 01:25:57,880 --> 01:26:00,480 for the podcast. You can buy merch. It's going to be great. I 1641 01:26:00,540 --> 01:26:03,240 get to field all the questions of, who are you and where's 1642 01:26:03,240 --> 01:26:03,660 rich? 1643 01:26:04,980 --> 01:26:07,980 This is very just pass around the email list, right? Yeah, and 1644 01:26:07,980 --> 01:26:10,080 we'll and we'll push these coffee mugs. People have been 1645 01:26:10,080 --> 01:26:13,200 asking for these coffee mugs for six years. I'll put one 1646 01:26:13,200 --> 01:26:16,620 in the studio. Yeah, yeah. Okay, good. Oh, you're the 1647 01:26:16,620 --> 01:26:18,600 gym on the podcast. Yeah, I am. Oh, 1648 01:26:18,720 --> 01:26:23,120 Jim, no. People know all sorts of things. I tagged Jim McCarthy 1649 01:26:23,120 --> 01:26:26,300 voiceovers and it's your show.co. On every social post, 1650 01:26:26,300 --> 01:26:29,780 people were like, We get it. You're friends for 19 years. You 1651 01:26:29,780 --> 01:26:32,660 know it's good though. Hey, thanks, buddy, yeah, man, thanks 1652 01:26:32,660 --> 01:26:35,240 really, really appreciate it continued success, Jim, thanks 1653 01:26:35,240 --> 01:26:37,940 for your time and talent and to all the listeners. Thank you. We 1654 01:26:37,940 --> 01:26:40,240 really do appreciate you. Be sure to subscribe, share, rate 1655 01:26:40,240 --> 01:26:44,740 and review helps people find the show until next time. Take care. 1656 01:26:44,740 --> 01:26:45,820 Thanks, guys, this 1657 01:26:45,820 --> 01:26:50,800 has been the rich Redmond show. Subscribe rate and follow along 1658 01:26:50,920 --> 01:26:54,340 at rich redmond.com forward, slash podcasts. You.