Hi, everyone!
And welcome to a new episode of Pharma Insights
the talk show brought to you by Platforce.
As you may already know, our aim
in this series
is to connect professionals from all around the world
and create a community based on exchange, network and
meet colleagues from all over the world,
from everywhere, and if there is a possibility
create new businesses and deals.
As you may already know, my name is Juliana Kreisel
and I will be one of your moderators for today.
In this episode
we will explore how to integrate sales and marketing
in order to generate an enhanced HCP engagement.
We will explore also how the CRM can enhance it
and the benefits of the digitalization in the
fieldforce activity.
So, without any further delay,
because everyone is anxious for this talk,
so let me introduce my co host and colleague
Stefan Repin, the head of marketing here at Platforce.
Hi, Stef. How are you doing?
Hey, hey! Here's Stefan.
The head of -for now-
the head of marketing at Platforce.
Really glad to meet you.
I'm really glad to meet you guys.
Well, anything can happen.
I'm really glad to see you guys
everyone, guys and girls, see you here
I'm really happy to be delivering this podcast.
Your joy,
your experience is what we love the most
so feel free to comment, give suggestions to the show
anything like that, so your comments is our air, okay?
So the more comments we'll have
the more air we're gonna have.
So please be kind.
Thank you and I will love to introduce our panel.
Our first speaker for today is Harmeet Seth
Harmeet, how are you doing today?
Hi. Good, thanks.
How are you guys?
We're good.
Do you want to...?
I know our audience would love to hear more about you
so, if you want to give us a brief introduction.
Yeah, sure!
Thank you for inviting me to speak.
Super exciting topic!
So, yes, I'm Harmeet.
Nice to meet everybody who's joined.
My background is quite varied
but in a nutshell
I've been in the industry sort of over 12,
13 years now within healthcare.
Funny enough, I started off
doing social media marketing
for clinical trial recruitment.
So I was seen as the great new shiny toy,
digital, social media, when it wasn't even at its peak.
So my whole background has been sort of
digital engagement, multichannel,
omni channel, whatever you wanna call it.
My strategies, tools,
methodologies,
have been integrated into the agencies I've worked for
and also within
in-house in pharma.
Lots!
Well that's a good thing!
And I know our audience really love a very diverse
and a nutshell let's say of experience.
So thank you for being part of this talk show.
And our second speaker for today
in this beautiful panel is Mehrnaz Campbell. Hello!
Hi there! It's good to see you.
How are you doing? How's everything today?
It's really good and I'm really excited to be here.
And thank you for inviting me.
It's a sunny day in Pennsylvania, so yeah.
ha ha ha ha Jealous, love it
Same here!
So we will love, same as Harmeet,
if you can give us a brief of yourself
that will be very helpful for our audience.
You're asking Harmeet or me?
No, no.
You you, yeah okay.
You said Harmeet that's why I got confused.
I'm Mehrnaz Campbell
I've been working in the healthcare sector for 37 years
I initially was a nurse. I worked for NHS in the UK.
And in 1992 I joined the pharmaceutical industry
worked in various sales and marketing roles
with GSK, Pfizer and Takeda.
and in 2017 I founded my own company Cheemia
and during lockdown we developed our own digital
global brands and called Cheemia ReSET and Cheemia REInspire
and our purpose really
is about unleashing the human potential
to create a healthier world
and my vision is to inspire pharma
commercial teams and marketing teams
to shift from being the message bearers
to becoming the HCP Advisors
and we do this through our market access
and sales pull through strategies
that we provide for our clients
but we also do this through our digital brands
and we help individuals and teams to achieve
expedential growth both professionally and personally
and help them feel proud
and whilst they're having fun doing the work
that is really valuable
Thank you, thank you.
And thank you all for being here.
Thank our panel and
I will also like to thank the attendees
for being part of this talk show.
We wouldn't be able to do it without you guys.
As Stefan is saying in the comments
if you have any questions or any comments at any time
please let us know, write it down and we can
and we will definitely bring it up here
so we can ask our experts about it
so without any further delays
Stef,
do you want to start with this?
Yeah yeah.
I'll start yeah
I mean ladies always comes come first but I'll start
for now, well okay
so um I'll... full disclaimer
I'm reading Mehrnaz' book about omni channel
and it's really interesting
it's a very good read for me and
before actually starting with pharma I used to do
I used to be in saas,
different industry, and in saas a very big point is that
alignment,
marketing and sales alignment.
And as far as I know in the pharma
it's been popular,
been very popular that the model
where marketing goes and pays money for
market research which costs a lot of money
maybe a million, millions whatever
and then they come with certain trends
and then certain words and and
and um
branded strategies that
they go to the sales people and they say
"okay, look
now you have to use this
because this is what we saw in the market"
Well, sales people maybe try it
maybe they don't, but they come out and they say "look,
this is not working what you're saying"
it's too much too, much brands there
there's too much me me me me
me in it, right?
Like it's not like doctors don't
don't get it, they don't understand it
so for me
the question would... The first question would be
since Harmeet is here
like I'm really happy that we have Harmeet here
cause she's like... she's all engagement
she's all about HCP engagement
Am I right, Harmeet?
Yeah pretty much.
but I'm scared now haha
We got only rock stars here so
so my question would be
how can you generate content that will serve
combine that will give you the
the user engagement
the HCP engagement and will also well
work for marketing?
and how can these two areas work together?
and
Harmeet, can you in the start?
yeah sure
It's a great question.
To be honest there's quite a few things
and I think
having the privilege of working with different clients
different pharmaceutical clients
I've seen quite a lot of variety
when it comes to how much we're engaging
and getting the sales reps involved
or the sales force involved
um
and to be honest I think
I mean even recently
I'm just working on a project
and we're actually having
for example the salesforce go through the content
whilst it's being developed for a new launch
so simple but it's still not being done often
so I have
like a couple of rules in my head
and things that I would advise
um also one of them being like treat your
treat your field force a bit like KOLs
if you like have a paddle
get them involved early. I've seen pharma companies
where they're getting them involved in their quarterly
cycle meetings
monthly reviews,
reviewing briefs, reviewing first stage content
so
I think we need to be getting them engaged a lot more
the second thing that I always focus on is
when we're producing content
be sure to provide the flexibility for the reps to use
what content they need
and I think that's really important
I make sure that we have a modular content strategy
approach where
based on what we know about audiences
and their personas etc
but I give the content in a way that's bite size
and flexible to allow the force to use what they need
they know the audiences the customers well
so I think that's really important
and then
I think another thing is definitely
having the feedback between the two
and learnings I've worked at a pharma company
I'm very impressed with how they're integrating
the data taking learnings from the CRM
as well as automated
so getting... Oh that always happens!
cause I always do so many hand actions haha
So yeah
I think it's yeah
it's really
it's really important to also the collaboration
I go off on a tangent, I'm sorry
Well I think the computer also agrees with you
because you had balloons
Guys I will love to hear more
but we have a question from the audience
and if you guys want to bring it up or...
but I think we should
we should go audience first, you know
we're moving just about it
okay one second
We have a question from one attendeee saying
hello everyone greetings of the day.
can you explain
what channels and formats are most effective
for reaching and engaging with healthcare providers?
Who wants to take all that?
ha ha ha I'm all quite happy to
go for it
I think
channel is important
but it's not the most important thing
I think the content needs to be relevant
it needs to be at the time that the HCPs needed
then channel becomes the key thing
and I think
it was last year, the conference asked the audience
amongst the marketeers and leaders
do they honestly think their content is relevant
to address the HCP's pain points?
and half of them didn't think it was,
and the other half
that thought the content was relevant
I asked them
do you deliver it at the time HCPs need it?
and nobody did, so the channel becomes a bit irrelevant
if your content is not relevant
and is not delivered on time
so I mean I always say
go back and make sure that those things are taken
and then
in terms of what channel is the best or most effective
it all depends who you're talking to
HCPs are not using one single channel
all of us are multi channel
I mean think about your own purchasing decision
anything you wanna buy, you probably look online
you probably look at reviews
you talk to a friend, you reach to your network,
and maybe you talk to somebody or salesperson
but you just don't use a single channel
and HCPs are the same
use various channels
to find out information to make decisions
and I think as an industry
we need to be more
fluid to flex and use the channel they prefer
and even with a single Hcp
if you look at it
like a pattern of flow of conversation
you have with them it might start from an email
then it would go into a Teams meeting
then it would be exchange of emails
then it might be a face to face
and then go back to email
depending on where they are on the journey of adoption
and what they need
but the most important thing we need to think about is
customer
is the one who needs to be able to demand information
and then we orchestrate ourselves around
to meet their need and flex
I like it yeah
and I just yeah
I just wanna add to that really quickly
I wanted Mehrnaz to go first
cause they probably won't like my answer
but um I
I have to completely agree on what I would say
and the thing I always
annoy everybody about is where's my media data
I want to know what their habits and preferences are
I want that data I want that learnings
if we don't have it okay
let's at least do a digital landscaping online
I
mmm
professional stalking
but you get an idea
but you get like
you know and
and it's completely different
and just really quickly to give you a real life example
like to Mehrnaz's point
me and my husband are both trying to buy cars
he's taking 3 months, I take a week.
He's watching YouTube videos
I look on two websites, you see the differences?
so I have the same issue yeah
my husband until he decided what car he wanted
we watched thousands of Youtube videos
it takes four months for him.
I'm less than two months
I went to the car dealer
and I just sat on the car and said
"I like this, let's buy it" and that's it yeah yeah
you know
I was gonna say collecting that you know
social listening information is not always true
because we did the panel discussion
and one of the participants was like
a digital analyst from Middle East
and he said
they analysed the preferences of HCP's for channel
and what they found was what
research indicated
was not aligned with actual behaviour
that I had so they would like
research says they would prefer to do this
and then the actual
behaviour should they prefer
like reading emails over the weekend
and I think
looking at the real behaviour is a better indicator
of just research behaviours
no likely
and someone else who was in the panel
she said like if you ask her
whether she would prefer to go to the cinema
or watch Netflix she would say it cinema
but if she looked at her behaviour
the last 24 months leading up to the time
she answered that
she said she's never been to cinema at all
even though that's her preference
yeah yeah
I mean definitely
ideal is to work with your media partners or vendors
they should have access to regional global media data
cause there's always always those surveys happening
um that's my go to
but you don't always get that for various reasons
hmm hmm great
which leads me to the next question, right?
so we're talking about the research
and what happens in the real
real world because what...
because I think there's a difference between
hmm
compare quantitative and quantitative research, right?
so because quantitative research is macroeconomics
and you never know how that can turn into one
single being, you know?
The butterfly theory says that
every time a butterfly moves
things change so a person might
if a person knows his or her future at that moment
his future already changed
so it's not the same so let me
let me go down from
from this like interesting
smart moves and go into other importance of feedback
from sales to marketing when it comes to pharma
so how can sales come to marketing and say
how was that the best way
how they can sort of like
give feedback when it comes to the HCP engagement?
HCP real behavior?
not what's
what's in the market research that they delivered
um they're not superstar
yeah I think
I really loved what Harmeet had said earlier on like
if you're creating content
involve the HCPs early and have
you know, discussion panels with them
but it's not just involving them
it's actually listening and taking action
based on the feedback they give you
it's not just collecting the feedback is acting on it
and I think the acid test is
when you give content to the field team
they present the HCPs, they get immediate feedback
so if the field team are not using material
that's feedback on itself
you need to investigate why they're not using it
it might be the material not resonating
so I think really
but encourage
marketeers to listen to the feedback
from the field force and then ask the why
and scratch the surface to see what's behind it because
um
they have probably more interactions with Hcps and
the material that really resonates with Hcps
are the materials that are there
directly addresses their pain point
or the somehow shaped development of that material
so I think by working more
much more closely between sales and marketing
we can align better with the HCP's needs
and that's why
I think that feedback loop is really important
and I think now more than ever before
I see the value of that we breaking down the silos
and I think in the relationship we've got
we've got with our clients is very much of a tag team
you know the marketing is asking us
so what are the contents do we need
what are the you know gaps
what's resonating and we provide that feedback
but we also say these are the gaps we have
so these are the scenarios we're encountering
and we need approved email content for this scenario
we need email approved content for that scenario
and what we find is when the field team ask for content
guess what they're gonna use it
and when they use it, it creates that
much more of a partnership between sales and marketing
Okay, makes sense
Harmeet, do you wanna add anything?
I was just having an interesting conversation
the other day about
sort of the motivations and
and this
this friend of mine works within pharma
so the motivations actually for reps
and also
the opportunity for them to be involved
with more than just a day today
without giving them an additional burden
by the way
I know they're under a lot of pressure and stress
and loads of things to do
but you know
giving them that availability and that
that chance for their voice to be heard
and be actively involved in the content
and the communications that they're gonna love to use
is just so important
for example so like I was saying before
I have seen panels of
field force that are levaged frequently
for an entire kind of campaign cycle
for example and that's really important
um and then also I'm also noticing even
even their feedback
when it comes to understanding targeting
and the importance I'm
I'm seeing it right now with a client
the marketing's targeting list for launch
and their field forces and how they're
working together and then also
how are we orchestrating the communications
between the two
that comes down to even reviewing their target lists
okay how okay
That's interesting sorry
that's an interesting topic
Let's jump into that how do you demonstrate...
It is very interesting for me.
in fact this is yeah yeah
It's real
it's happening right now and it's not easy just saying
yeah um
so sorry, what was your question Stefan?
that was the question so, how do you orchestrate that
like we need the real life example
let's let's play yeah
yeah yeah
We're planning it at the moment to be honest
so um
where do I start? there's a lot going on
hmm ha ha
so like I mentioned
we have the access to their field force
we got five of them super important
super crucial
and what we are seeing
although slightly traditional too, kind of leveraging
CRM platforms, what they can truly do
I am able to understand and see their target list
and their
priority
small target for launch within the first 6 months
and then I'm working with the media partners
for every single tactic we are going to do
from a non personal promotion campaign and PP campaign
we identifying and cross referencing the target lists
because I am orchestrating
from personal to non personal
I am orchestrating
if you're going to these 20 with these VAEs
for example how are we gonna hit them?
with which activity? at what point?
and I don't want double messaging
and I can't like think marketing
if marketing is trying to control the targeting
we're missing a game here because no
but that's yeah yeah
I you know
I think what we need to measure is what really matters
so um
sometimes targeting is not really to drive sales is to
you know drive activity
and I think measuring what matters means
if you say to the salesforce
that the outcome is driving sales and performance
the salesforce are smart commercial people
they pick accounts that are gonna give the performance
but if you're gonna measure the salesforce
based on coverage and frequency
then they're gonna pick the targets
that gonna give them the numbers to hit their KPIs
so I think we've gotta be really honest
and I think what happens if you sit in a room
boardroom
developing a strategy about targeting and segmentation
you come up with ideas that are perfect theoretically
when you go out in the field
if you don't have access to those
high potential accounts
you won't be able to drive the business
and we find in realities
we just targeting and segmentation in the field
and we often get 80% of the sales coming from
20% of the accounts
with those accounts that are early adopters are often
are not the most highly potential accounts
and sometimes it takes 18 months to two years to get
those big accounts moving
because the decision making
within the healthcare organization
is more complex the more stakeholders are involved
for them to get into
in a committee to make a consensus
that takes much longer so
we find medium sized accounts are much faster to adopt
and you can get the market share from
you know
single digit to 70% within 18 months and those big
you know giant accounts that have high potential
it would take them about 18 months
to get them on board once they get going
they can turn huge so you need to have it like a um
portfolio of accounts
the ones that gonna give you the early growth
and the one that gonna give you later
but I think if marketing dictates segmentation
it becomes very much theoretical
there needs to be a dialogue between the two
and it needs to be that healthy tension to say no
I'm not gonna pick these accounts because I
I don't have access
or they're not interested to engage
so it's like
if you look at the full box grid on one access
you looking at potential on the other access
you need to look at customer readiness or access
to even have that conversation with them
to get them to adopt the product
or brands that you're thinking about
so
the reality shapes and the segmentation and targeting
you know
I agree but this is why I really like this project
it's super close the the way I'm seeing
the field force and the marketing team
small teams working very fast for a big launch
and the way they are working together
with their target lists
that then we are leveraging and learning
and adapting our targeting for the NPP
based on the sales reps
based on the information they're providing
it's
because we are going for a small amount of customers
in the beginning the very
very early adopters and I
I love this approach
so but I completely agree
when we're talking about a bigger scale
things ultimately are not as easy as this
but it just shows
the level of collaboration between the two
in real life down to target list level
for example yeah
I think it's one team it's not two separate teams
we need to get rid of silos
um
marketing is trying to
you know drive performance
sales are trying to drive performance
I think as long as people understand
we're on the same side and behaving that way
we can win faster.
We've got a lot of comments from the audience
Do you want us to maybe bring them?
oh really?
Yeah, there's quite a lot of chat here!
ha ha oh no
what are we saying that's controversial?
ha ha ha ha I don't think it's controversial
some were agreeing oh
They're saying that basically
marketing and medical
so Jenny and Hamilton, thank you so much.
Thank you so much for asking questions.
Thank you for getting in this conversation with us so
um uh
oh she's saying yes
and okay so she...
the question is
marketing and medical role is to support sales, right?
and I sort of to be honest
I don't necessarily agree with that
because I'm seeing a raise of
self-serve of the self-serve model
for example so like when I used to buy
um um
a service, a business service in the past
you always, like you have to talk to sales
you know before you buy anything
right now what I'm seeing is like companies go through
they give you a lot of content
so you like engage and you feel like you're wanted
and then you sort of go through a self service model
which basically makes their role of sales more
sort of like influential
more of a like a medical sales
what are you done directly sell
where you more like influence
and that's where I disagree with
with Miss Janine here
but um
again that's my point here
maybe you guys will disagree with me
which is gonna make this conversation even better
Who wants to go first?
Who wants to disagree with Stefan?
Okay go ahead
you know I think in the past
like looking at 20 years ago
sales would go out there and say
this is my territory these are my customers
and if anybody wants to talk to them
they need to like
I need to know about them being quite territorial
and marketing role was kinda like
these are the messages
I want you to go and deliver in that order
I think we have evolved since then and you know
in the way we work
we see the customer and we see us as a team medical
marketing and sales trying to find what their need is
and address their need with our product and services
and flex in the way that they prefer it
honestly I see marketing and medical as my friends
I see them as my enablers
I don't see that they're there to serve me
I see them as my partners helping me for us to achieve
um you know
results for the customers
and at the end of the day
and you often say this
sales is not doing something to someone
sales is doing something for someone
so you're trying to find the customer pain point
and deliver something that addresses that pain point
I can't do that on my own as a sales person
I need to have a team behind me
medical information marketing
you know
everybody in the company is there to support me
and you need to use as a tag team
get the right person to go and have that conversation
and sometimes we need to even bring
you know the supply people to talk to customers
because they want reassurance about continuity
of supply I mean
there's been a lot of issues around
some of the medicine in NHS that
this is not availability of the medicine
so now I feel we need to think more holistically
and also there's other issues around sustainability
you know environmental impact of medicine
sometimes I need to reach out for somebody who can
reassurance about you know
is it sustainable?
is it recyclable?
because those are the key things are influencing
healthcare providers decision making
it's not just about efficacy and safety of the product
is about bigger impact on environment
so um
for that reason
I don't see the world the way you said Stefan
I see us as one team
maybe in some companies they still do silos
but I think the Nirvana is for us to be more aligned
and get rid of the silos
silos on the counter
I got um well
I see pharma as something...
I see pharma as
something that's a bit behind other industries
in terms of like understanding
terms of business maybe that's my own
that's how I see the world
I don't know let me put my glasses here
maybe they're being right
No, you're right
We are behind there's no doubt about it
so I mean
just to finish and and then you go
and then what I see is that
because it's behind
there is still this delimitation between marketing
and sales
but in other industries where it's a bit forward
you don't have marketing and sales anymore
you have revenue you have a chief revenue officer
who's responsible for all the revenue
and you have multiple teams
inside the revenue department
you have revenue operations
you have certain mini departments
and so you don't have this
like dogs and cats wars
like a marketing and sales
who will win? you know
who has more influence? who will get better, bigger budget?
and so on
sorry, you can continue now
I think you're absolutely right
we're not there, I mean
I'm talking to other entrepreneurs that are running
business is
and direct to consumers and the level of data
the level of sophistication
they have
in the digital marketing is an absolute dream
and in pharma we don't even have sometimes
and the basic stuff integrated
you know
the marketing campaign are not integrated with the CRM
system so we've got a long way to go
but I think the first step
we need to shift in pharma is the marketing's mindset
I think marketing is still thinking brand
they're thinking therapy area
and they don't think about customers
and customers pain points, you know
you talk to any UX designer
the first thing they ask is
what's the pain point we trying to address
as you talk to marketeers
they're saying this is a brand I need to sell
and these are
the targets I need to achieve is a small thing
but is a fundamentally different mindset shift
and I think farmer is behind
because it's still thinking
brand is not thinking about customer pain point
and that's where the conflict happens
the field team are dealing with customers
so they're here in the customer paying points
sometimes they can't feed that back to marketing
and marketing so we'll tell
do what I'm telling you
because I'm wanna sell this brand
I've got this target to meet
and then now you've got on the channel
people that trying to
kind of bring a different perspective
as a mismatch of thinking and mindset
between the three and that's where the conflict happens
but I agree with you we are very much behind
but the steps that can be taken to address the mindset
first I got a remark here for hermit here
so how much so we're talking about brand
we're talking about brand / engagement
so right mm hmm
and um
my question is how much brand / engagement
engagement and other types of
what's the content is health, a healthy one
where have you seen like good and bad examples?
maybe you could come up with stuff like that?
So you're talking about the waiting of the content
so being more brand and being more specific?
yeah yeah yeah
yeah like the need yeah
um good question
so I've seen a huge variety
I've seen and let me put it out there
in terms of the process and the way I work
I understand the brand I read the brand plan
I need to digest it, I need to get it
I've got it but for me
I need to know the deep insights
and understanding around our customers
leveraging all types of data and learnings
that's another subject
so I have seen where we are pushing
for example to really go customer centric first
understanding the pain points
we do things quite smart as well
we add different behaviour models
why not? you wanna get deeper
you wanna understand audiences
you wanna know the differences
not all audiences the same customer
like we've said before
so I've seen where we really push on educational
value added content first
and that's a big push I understand
I'm in an agreement
with the conversations that you two have been having
but I still have to, we have to bear in mind
the reality also of the marketing team
they've got to speak higher up and get the sales
so there's an element of brand
but that's that shouldn't be the first uh conversation
even now we're planning uh
tactics and materials and messaging
and it's what promotional message can we say no
what are the deep pain points that we've understood?
what are the psychographic kind of elements?
what are the motivations of these customers?
um we
you'll get to the brand
your answer will be the brand ideally
but it doesn't have to be the first thing you say
for example
and the great thing I love doing is testing always
we're doing it right now different display ads
different emails
let's go with this unmet need message first
and try this one
let's go with these pain points and try this one
let's have this one
promotional with your promotional key message first
so I've seen a big mix you know
I'm an advocate of always addressing
what the customer needs obviously
um sorry
that was a long winded answer
but I see and I have some clients that are like
these are the messages
do it on every single channel you can think of
you know um comment
um I was working with the client and
they wanted to
one of the strategies to become more customer focus
was to encourage everyone
to write
customer centric SWAT analysis
when they started writing the SWAT
most of the SWAT they wrote was brand specific
um aa
they couldn't write their customer centric
SWAT analysis
is because they don't know enough about customers
and um
I think sometimes we think we know
but I think most of the knowledge is about the therapy
area and the brand
we selling and we kind of like
trying to find one thing that we can hook the brand to
it but really
if you spend time to understand the customers
and their pain points the things that impact them
you know their environment
then you find better sweet spots
that the brand can meet it much more successfully
so rather than going with the shopping list
of throwing messages at them
you can actually condense it to one message
that directly engages it
and I can give you specific examples
like there was a brand that was working on that
I think that we were focusing on the brand itself
and then we listen to the customers
and we change our approach
we with input from HCPs we created an event
an event that we wanted to invite
like high specific people
maybe eight people to attend this event
because we wanted to specifically train them
because they were
these are like the key opinion leaders
uh we send the invitation last Tuesday
but last Friday we had 30 people registered
we were gonna close it but we thought no
we're not gonna close it and today I checked
we've got over 40 people registered for it
I'm asking myself why?
and I think it's because the content
is addressing an unmet need
and they organically sharing the details
and most people like wanna come into this event
because it was created based on their input
so I kind of
I think if marketing spent a bit more time pondering
on understanding customers
really articulating
really getting under the skin of their emotions
the motivations that you
talk about then sit back and look at the brand and see
does it genuinely meet this
and what specific thing it meets and prioritize it
and I think we'd be a lot more successful
I think what we tend to do is more of the same
over the competitors are doing with benchmarks
ourselves versus competitors
rather than benchmark ourselves
are how good I'll be in satisfying their need
and be really honest with each other
some of their needs we can't satisfy
so don't go there go to areas where we can satisfy
and then we can't satisfy every customer's needs
so when it comes to segmentation
focus on account and customers
that we can genuinely address their need
and forget about the exit
the markets where we can't
and be really honest about it
okay we have a comment
I'm sorry I'm going to interrupt you right now
we have a comment
our question actually says: whose pain points?
the HCPs or the patients?
because they don't have the same pain points
and we need to clarify exactly who we are addressing me
Me me me!
Me me!
you go, you go
You go, girl! You go, girl!
I'm so glad you asked that
see how excited I get I need to calm down okay
so um
I love that question
I love it because part of the strategy
upfront strategy
is understanding the patient as well as the HCP
I'm so glad that question
came up for standard strategy 1:1 patient journeys
for example um
really understanding the journey
that the patient goes through
layering on the stakeholders
this is like I practiced on all the time
I understand but it are sometimes it often gets missed
but understanding their pain points
their needs layering them
the HCPs and the stakeholders who's involved
what are their pain points?
what are the opportunities?
standard patient journey as an example
so I think it's a great question
and definitely understanding the patients
as well as Hcps
also I'm seeing something quite interesting quite cool
uh specifically in the US
as you could imagine
how we're taking learning from DTC campaigns
taking the learnings into HCP engagement
ooh juicy stuff! I haven't seen it yet
but it's
but the fact that marketers are talking about this
and just do Mehrnaz's earlier point
I have to give kudos to the marketing teams
I have worked with
some great marketing teams that are pushing boundaries
doing the right thing first
if I'm honest um
with a lot of hesitancy in the company
and organisation
so I'm seeing a shift technology is always been there
it's about the education we need internally
for example
and the upscaling technology is always been there
like you say
we're behind technology has been there in other
in other industries um
but yeah I love that question
always understand both ha ha ha please
Do you have anything to add?
I think the point Harmeet makes is absolutely
fundamental because patients are the end users
even though that
we don't directly communicate with them
but also
the other aspect is sometimes parents are the carers
so we need to take that into consideration
because their attitude
and behaviours can actually determine compliance
and preferences for formulation of the brands
so we need to be mindful of their challenge
because they could be a barrier to prescribing
or adoption as well
so it's important to take that into consideration
Nice, guys
we have a comment from someone that we all know
and love: Claudia
Claudia,
I'm so happy to have you here
um uh
She is
guys, for everyone behind, before this started
we discussed that we all know Claudia
and love Claudia
so that's uh
the key thing
so she's saying that's the challenge
that's gonna start with the brand strategies
not being customer centric enough
hence the teams at local level
having to reconcile brand and customer need themselves
like if they were trying to do magic?
and I see you guys looking and reading
so who wants to comment on that?
and then there is another comment.
But let's go through parts
So I'm reading the first part
I agree and I'm gonna say I agree with you Claudia
ha ha um
so yeah I completely agree
but I think it was kind of part of what
I was saying earlier so digest the brand plan,
understand the brand plan,
okay we now, get the strategies
the critical success factors
everything from a brand perspective
um but yes
how do we take what we need to be doing
but now coming up with a communication strategy
that is customer centric for example?
so um
that's typically kind of the process if you like
how I've been doing it and then the second part
um hence
the teams at a local level
having to reconcile brand and customer names
if they were trying to do magic
I don't 100% understand that
I'm sorry I don't know if somebody else does
yeah I'm quite happy
I may be reading it yeah
yeah I think it's one question
I think
I agree with what Claudia's saying
there's a mismatch here
from a strategic point of view
you need to have a red thread
through the whole process of communication
if you have a strategic plan that is brand centric
and not customer centric then it comes to affiliates
they need to try to fix it
so you're not getting the right red thread
and it's unfair to the affiliates
or if the affiliates don't get it right
it comes to the field team
field team trying to fix it
so I think the core of the strategy needs to be custom
eccentric
and the brand needs to match the gap
or like the sweet spot
the match the brand can meet that needs
and if you haven't got it sorted at the top
it's just not gonna have the right cascade
and the red threads not coming through
and you're right
it creates more work for other people
and it breaks down trust as well
because if you
have to go and do the work that they expected
global team should have done it
then they feel quite resentful
and it creates more work for them
ha ha ha let's not create resentful
or resentfulness inside the workplace please
ha ha so I want to ask I'm sorry Stef
I'm jumping in but uh
prior to our discussions uh with Mehrnaz
we discuss about your
next book or something like that
and we discuss and I know
you talked about the importance of the evolution
let's say of marketing being more customer centric
so I know you touch a little bit about that
but I want to go a little bit in depth
and to understand you said that it's we need to change
let's say
from brand awareness to be more customer
and that way we can integrate
or work in the ways of
integrate and sell some marketing better
because the clients will be
we're all going to be working as we are
with one client
the same client and that's our end deal
but how do you think this changes
or this evolving will happen?
do you think we're in the way of that happening?
would you think there are some issues in the middle?
or what are your thoughts?
um change is not easy
humans would avoid change as far as possible
people wanna do what they're comfortable with so
you know it's not easy and if you don't have a roadmap
and it's not lack of clarity
you kind of like running around like headless chickens
and I think the problem is
everybody knows pharma needs to change
everybody knows pharma is behind
and everybody's talking about transformation
but there's not real clarity
about who needs to do what
and how you change
and companies create this like competency framework
but the competency framework doesn't define
what is it that you need to do on Monday
or behaviours you need to have
so I think with marketing is
is reaching a... like that tipping point that
there is a need to shift because the whole
you know communication
methodology is shifting because of the
the transformation
and if marketing
still doing what they did 10 years ago
or 20 years ago
it's gonna be a point of evolution that it won't survive
that behaviour won't survive
so either the individual needs to change
or then the evolution would remove them from
you know the food chain
so I think what there are drives change is necessity
either pressure to evolve like you know
even look at pharma
Pharma was not ready to do digital transformation
until Covid happened, Covid forced it to do
but it should have happened ages ago
I mean how many of us go and visit a brand bank
how many of us go to a branch
how many of us write a check
we do everything online I
I put my hand up in America
they're quite backwards they still give checkbooks
and I was
opening
I was going to open a business banking in US this week
and the guy was saying to me
I'll be charged so much
for checking your balance on an ATM
and I was saying why would I check my balance on an ATM?
what's an ATM? he's surprised
yeah and
I was just thinking like but the banking
which is a highly regulated industry has moved so much
and I remember HSBC put staff in the branches
so if you visit the branch of HSBC
55 years ago because you were laggard
and you were not adopting technology
they would have staff
that would take you into a terminal
and show you how to do your online banking
so I think maybe we need to have some system
helping marketers to shift their own mindset
but there needs to be a change process for that um
but I think is very much needed
and I was talking to somebody this morning
they said the biggest challenge they're having
in the global team is around
marketing's mindset around omni channel
the thing on the channel is something
you just do the campaign like you've always done
do everything you did
and then at the end of that process
you just think okay
what channels do I use on the channel is
is a way of is like
you need to think about that from the answer
you need to look at
look at the behaviours of the customers
where do they go to sort
source information for education
or for knowledge or the data
and then
embed that understanding in your whole campaign
development not something you bought at the end of it
so the mindset really needs to shift um
yeah we're gonna have a really interesting panel
discussion about in three weeks time in Dubrovnik
and I've listened to the speakers in the panel
and they are quite controversial
they say that we need to really change fundamentally
otherwise marketing won't survive in pharma
and like you said Stefan
a lot of organisation outside pharma
they don't have sales and marketing function per se
the revenue generators
so maybe that will happen in pharma as well
let's hope, let's not to close marketing please
because I will be without a job
and I cannot be without a job
so let's evolve people so
we have another question from our audience saying
I'm going to post it here from Freddy.
He's saying great talk my question is
how many messages is too many messages per segment?
should we alternate messages by quarter
or journey
or try to leave our 2 to 3 messages consistently
to drive a recall?
Who, guys, wants...? Harmeet I see you nodding
I see you getting excited
Me me me! How am I gonna answer this though?
okay ha ha
it's a great question um
the one thing that came into my mind
so I'm just gonna read the questions
I get all of it should be all the same message okay
okay so I'm gonna give you an example because one
I'm rooting for the marketing teams
come on marketing teams and second
I've had a great experience recently
that would probably help answer this
pharma company
okay probably a bit sophisticated
but they have done a great job in building their own
omni channel engine is what they were calling it um
and in that you're taking external sales data
original CRM data including notes from the reps
and it was actually helping understand multiple
information about the customer audience
giving you a 360 view and it truly was
it was also actually highlighting
using AI and machine learning
highlighting potential adopters
lower doctors prescription growth rate potential
and also content consumption
that's the big one
so there is no one answer for that
and I technically would not base it on a timing plan
although I know that's how we
do marketing
typically in cycles and quarters and sprints
I understand that
but if there is a way of learning and understanding
what message works
ideally using a sophisticated CRM
for example
because what we're doing
as long as you're tagging the content correctly
it was actually giving you your next best action
and the channel
and it was saying these are the top three
collectively from all the healthcare providers
these are the top three key messages
so say you have eight typically
these are the top three that have been most consumed
and then even on an individual level
like that is the level I want us to be getting to
and it is feasible it's happened
I've worked with it it's amazing
so sorry
not probably the best answer I need to give you
just yes do 2 to 3
but if there is a way
probably not a sophisticated
that you can learn what are the top messages
please you know
leverage the content in your damn
please tag please
please tag
and work like with the Content Excellence team
for example internally
and I'm gonna go we got a question here
shouldn't be responses rather than messages
ha ha it's really funny
it's really funny you say that because I was gonna say
being at them like a front end communicating with Hcps
I think less is more
and I think what we find is we listen
to what they say
and we pick the message that is relevant
to the conversation so I would say
you know if you use theoretical marketing stimulations
the more messages you put in
the less impact it would have
so less is more but for every
every given interaction with the individual HCPs
from the segment you selecting
you need to listen to what they say like um
you said earlier on Harmeet
your flexibility to feel team
to use the page or the content from the deck
that is relevant is not
the quantity of content
is keeping the conversation very precise
on the point that really matters to them
so I would say don't have more than 3 messages
because you confuse them
and it becomes like a tick box
but then on a given interaction
focus on the most pertinent one
with a given HCP to have more impact
we have another question
come on guys
you it's your time to give all the questions you have
so uh
the question is
how can sales and marketing collaborate in development
and developing relevant and valuable content
for healthcare providers
who wants to tackle that? Mehrnaz?
Yeah, I can
then we go to our meet
because I just think she's excited as well
I I keep these horses
so I've seen case studies developed for brands
and I read them
and I kind of think this doesn't sound like a patient
and couple of years ago we actually worked with HCPs
they wrote case studies and they
case studies were much more real
and I remember we
help them develop a booklet
to collate all the case studies
and the case studies were describing the scenarios
and when we were showing those case studies
to other healthcare professionals
they were saying yeah
I can relate to a David I can relate to a Marjorie
so I think um the best content is a
content that is actually created by Hcps
based on their real experiences
and is a really good way of educating others
because others can relate to it
Nice! Harmeet?
I think the question also for me
it kinds of links back to
I guess the first question you asked us
um is finding methodologies
whatever works for your team
and their pressures of their job
but ways that they can be working together a lot more
and communicating and feedbacking
but also give a sense of authority
and ownership and freedom to the sales team
so um that comes down to like I say
understand your customer deep insights if possible
multi layered
segmentation if possible and then
have the content that we need but again
package it and feed it back to the sales webs
to get an idea of what they believe
is the right messages according to their customers
and then
give them the freedom and ownership to use the content
that they seem relevant for Doctor Joe
for example so
and again
I know everyone's time poor
not just the healthcare professionals
like we all are I get it
I understand but honestly
that it's not difficult to arrange a call with 5 reps
for example so
and then as frequently as you want to be doing it
as much as you want their involvement
if they're happy to be involved and they
I don't know but from experience
they're always happy to involve
be involved and be heard
and they come up with great insights
they were helping us shape our efficacy story
they were helping us shape our um like the key messages
so I love that we need more
more people like you harmony
who open and inclusive and well
I'm actually seeing a good shift
I don't know I don't think it's as bad as it used to be
like over 12 years
things are moving in the right direction
I'm just putting it out there
yeah or I'm just working with a select few
I don't know but yeah
well I think there's a mix
there's a mix everywhere
and there are some really talented people
who are focused on doing the right thing
and being inclusive and getting rid of the silos
and there's still some that still
you know traditional in their way of thinking
like anything else you've got early adopters
you've got one and you've got the others in between
yeah yep
yep yep
yep yep yeah
definitely
so I'm going to... We are close to ending and this is sad
but it's the thing
so I would love to have closing remarks for you guys
if you have anything to say to our audience
or leave our audience with
who wants to go first a close with a remark?
I
I could go first I would say
one of the key things we need to think about is
HCPs are on the tremendous amount of pressure
there's long waiting times
patients are waiting for you know
surgeries or appointments for a long time
we've got a duty and responsibility to make sure
we don't waste HCP's time
so every time we thinking about reach
we need to think about how
we can actually address a pain point
that helps them
to be able to deliver better care for the patients
and focus on that it's not about quantity
it's about quality
and being really relevant to their pain point
thank you for that how you meet yeah
that's an amazing answer
and then I guess it's a nobody is
but it's like the why ultimately
what should we be doing all of ourselves marketing
anyone in the organization
and then I guess the part 2 maybe is then the how
so please please collaborate
I have seen even on a level
content excellence
not collaborating with the digital and the tech team
for example so
find strategies and ways of working
where you can collaborate
cross collaborate
collaborate with the sales reps efficiently you know
making sure that you actually
you have results at the end of it
but ultimately to do what men are said
at the end day is the most important
but work together in any way possible and share
and honestly internally share case studies
share learnings across therapy areas across markets
across like just across the organization um
everyone is so I get it
everyone's time for working in their zone but um yeah
I could keep going it's not closing is it
um what might help in terms of how is
I've written a book about the Omni Advantage
the Omni Advantage is not about technology
is about people and how can we can bring people medical
marketing and sales together on this journey
so we can actually be the trusted advisors
for healthcare professionals
as an industry so um
if you've not checked it out um
check it out
because it is written more like a road map
to give you the house nice
so guys I will want to thank you all for being here
thank you for your panel and to all our attendees
thank you so much
your comments and questions were amazing
and we were so happy that you enjoy this
as much as we did so without any further delay
have a great weekend
and I will see you all on our next farming sites
Bye, everyone.
Thank you so much, bye.
Thank you. You're welcome.