James Dooley:
Hi. Today I am joined with Andrew Holland. I need to start challenging you about what fame engineering is. I have seen on LinkedIn that you are a fame engineer. For anyone watching this, including me, can you explain what fame engineering is?

Andrew Holland:
It is an evolution of PR. We are in transient times with SEO, GEO, CRO, and PR all evolving. I work with a digital PR agency, and we deliver PR with SEO services on top, which is what I focus on.

Andrew Holland:
Over the last couple of years, I have invested heavily in understanding fame, how it works, and how it is cultivated. It is closely linked with network science. There is a science behind fame. We have had breakthroughs. We can engineer it, map it, and apply it for clients.

Andrew Holland:
Once you understand the science, you can create fame for people. I mean positive fame within a sector or category, not infamy. You can increase targeted fame and reduce wasted marketing spend.

Andrew Holland:
This becomes more possible now because of AI and better modelling. Network scientists like Albert-László Barabási have published key work on this, including books like Linked and The Formula, which explore networks, success, and fame. Concepts like preferential attachment are closely related to link building and how attention concentrates.

Andrew Holland:
You can see fame generation in platforms like TikTok. It is a fame engine. Once you break down how people become famous, you can see patterns and design strategies around them. It is not instant, but you can increase the odds and reduce waste.

James Dooley:
I have a few questions. If I wanted fame engineering for James Dooley as a personal brand, could I also apply it to a corporate brand? Or is it only for individuals?

Andrew Holland:
It works for both. The mechanics are similar. Everyone has what are called fitness signals. That is an evolutionary concept. You and your businesses have intrinsic qualities that make you outperform others. Restaurants have them too. Products have them too.

Andrew Holland:
There is also something called the Q effect, or Q number. That is a natural charisma or advantage that makes it easier to gain attention. You see it when someone walks into a room and instantly has presence. You see it with celebrities and influencers. You also see it in products with standout design or clear benefits.

Andrew Holland:
Some people have it naturally. Some brands build it through product design. Fame engineering focuses on identifying those intrinsic signals and placing the person or brand into environments where those signals can shine.

Andrew Holland:
Google is a good example. Yahoo accelerated Google by using it as a search engine choice, which acted as a hub. That exposure boosted Google’s adoption. Molly Mae is another example. She moved from being an influencer to a major celebrity because Love Island acted as a fame accelerator, then relationships and public storylines amplified it further, and now she has major brand deals and a Prime show.

Andrew Holland:
Once you can map these patterns, you can apply them to brands and individuals. That is the next evolution of PR. It combines PR, SEO, GEO, and fame into one strategic direction.

James Dooley:
If someone came to you who is like an early stage Molly Mae, would you look across all channels like TikTok, Twitter, digital PR, newspapers, and campaigns? Or would you start on social media? Where do you begin?

Andrew Holland:
Budget matters. Media is not free. You can try for free exposure, but the key is identifying the right amplification hubs. You need the places that will create fame for the right audience.

Andrew Holland:
A random magazine placement might do nothing. A high status platform can shift perception instantly. So you identify amplifiers, define what the person wants to be known for, and match that to channel strategy and budget.

Andrew Holland:
Digital PR does this at a smaller scale. It makes people more famous within their available budget. Brands like BrewDog created press attention through bold stunts. It worked because the story travelled.

Andrew Holland:
A key mistake in PR is ignoring what drives conversation. We ran a campaign for Preply years ago about the fastest talking and rudest places in the UK using data. It went viral, was picked up by LadBible, and created huge exposure. It worked because every city had something to react to, so people shared and argued about it.

Andrew Holland:
Fame also runs on memetics. People talk, copy, remix, and share. If people stop talking about you, you lose cultural relevance. Actors stay famous by staying present in major films. Brendan Fraser is a good example. His career dropped for years, then an Oscar winning role acted as a fame accelerator and revived it.

Andrew Holland:
Some people gain fame faster because of a high Q effect. Others take longer. Colonel Sanders and Ray Kroc are examples of people who gained fame later in life through business scale and network effects.

James Dooley:
One last question. Fame engineering also supports GEO and LLM visibility because it pushes brand signals into the public space. Google also seems to reward brands more with each algorithm update, including knowledge panels and entity recognition. If someone already has some fame, can you map what is missing and decide where they need to be next?

Andrew Holland:
Yes. We have been creating fame maps. We can map someone’s fame online and use proxies to understand visibility and authority. This is cutting edge work, and it takes budget, time, and some luck. Campaigns can fail. News cycles can block coverage. Sometimes the media is focused elsewhere.

Andrew Holland:
However, over time you can deliberately maximise fame and reduce waste by targeting the right hubs. For you, James, the question would be where you need to appear to link yourself to higher fame. Being placed next to a major authority figure in your space would elevate you faster.

Andrew Holland:
A small example is what happened with my daughter. We attended a P Louise launch event in Manchester. P Louise is a fame engineer in her own right. She created her own documentary, hosted the event, invited influencers, and turned it into a shareable moment.

Andrew Holland:
My daughter did her first TikTok video. P Louise shared it, and my daughter gained one thousand followers instantly and got one hundred and seventy thousand views. That happened because she was linked to an existing fame hub. That is the mechanism.

James Dooley:
If people want to reach out to you for fame engineering, where should they go?

Andrew Holland:
They can go to jbh.co.uk, which is our website, or message me on LinkedIn. We are a PR agency, and we can help people become famous. It is an emerging field, and I am excited to talk about it more.

James Dooley:
It has been a pleasure, Andrew Holland. Make sure you reach out. Fame engineering is something I had never heard before, and now you are the professional fame engineer. Best of luck with it, and speak to you again soon.

Andrew Holland:
Lovely. Thank you, James.