Rob: Greetings, salutations, hello and welcome back.
We here at Subspace Radio are very, very excited to be returning
to some Strange New Worlds, for the first time in two years
Kevin: How long have I been asleep, Rob?
Rob: We have been asleep for a couple of months, but we have been sleeping
on Strange New Worlds for two years.
Kevin: How many, how many intervening seasons of Star Trek has there been?
There was the end of Discovery, so there's discovery season five
and two seasons of Lower Decks.
Rob: seasons of Lower Decks and I think we had a Prodigy in there as well.
Kevin: A Prodigy, but Picard was done before
Rob: Yes, Picard was done.
So we've done, uh, three seasons of animation and uh, uh, one season,
uh, of a show in its death throes.
Kevin: Yeah.
Yeah.
Yowie zowie.
Well, this the, this is the new normal.
This is the new normal Rob.
Um, enjoy it while it lasts, 'cause uh, it'll be a while till, I guess, Starfleet
Academy, the next thing we get to enjoy.
Rob: Exactly, yes.
But they are filming season four.
Kevin: Yeah.
And they've told us, there's a shortened season five to come later.
Yeah.
Rob: Paramount!
Kevin: But here we are still less than halfway through Strange New Worlds.
That's, that's, you know, that's the reality is there's more Strange New
Worlds ahead of us than behind us.
Rob: Yes.
And we have had to wait a very long time for the return of a, you know, uh,
now the conclusion of, uh, Hegemony.
Kevin: Oh, they did it.
They did it just like they did it in, uh, The Best of Both Worlds part two.
And now the conclusion was the exact wording.
Rob: Anson Mount did a very good Majel Barrett.
Kevin: Yeah, absolutely.
Rob: So, yes, we are back and we're gonna talk about two
episodes, Hegemony part two, and,
Wedding Bell Blues.
Kevin: Yeah.
No beating around the bush for us.
We're just gonna tell you what we've seen.
Rob: So let's get into it.
Uh, first impressions, uh, Hegemony, part two.
Did it live up to the two year hype of how to conclude, uh, a cliffhanger?
Kevin: I don't know.
That's a tall odor.
I don't, I don't know if I can say this was worth waiting two
years for, but it was good.
I think they stuck the landing.
This is a worthy second part.
It's we, you know, the, the annals of pop culture are full of cliffhangers that,
uh, were not worth it by the payoff.
And here, I think, you know, they did justice to what they set up.
They, they delivered everything they promised.
Uh, the stakes were, were justified.
Rob: Yes, and they like ratcheted it up.
So it's sort like from the previous season, the episode was kind of
contained on that planet with a little bit of interference from
the outside, from the Federation.
But this is sort of like taking that and expanding it.
So Pike had issues on multiple fronts.
He had to deal with Batel being infected, his, his team being, um,
uh, beamed aboard with the colonists.
How is he gonna survive?
He's been called back.
All this type of stuff is happening and that ratcheting up of how, and,
and Anson Mount was incredible in that moment as Pike going, it's too much.
I dunno how to handle this.
Kevin: Yeah, I rewatched part one, like the day before part two came out, and
that was my impression as well, is like they really, they gave that man a lot
to worry about because he was mostly, he was mostly absent for season two and like
that, that finale was in some ways the most Anson Mount or Captain Pike we saw.
We saw more of him in that finale episode, I felt than in the
entire season that preceded it.
In, in, in total.
I don't even if that math exactly bears out, but that's what it felt like.
And so they, they gave us him a season's worth of stress all in one
episode as well, is what it felt like.
Rob: Exactly.
And great, um, great, uh, troubleshooting with the, with the bridge crew.
Tried to figure things out.
I was particularly impressed because that, like we've said, it has been two years.
How seamlessly it flowed from it pretty much follows on the second the previous
episode finishes and in reality, we've had two two years of, um, of, of, of waiting.
But the actors were on the top of their game and just moved
on without a beat, uh, missing.
Kevin: I don't know if this is true, but it felt like the production value
went up a notch again, this episode.
There were moments where I was just sitting with my jaw open
going, the money that is being spent with each passing second of
what I'm watching is unfathomable.
Uh, they, yeah, they, they spent their time well, is is what I'll
say about that two year break.
Rob: Yeah, they really, uh, also focused in on the ensemble nature of the show.
So split across multiple different locations, multiple different story arcs.
So we had Spock and Chapel resolving their stuff.
We had great character moments with, you know, um, La'an finally figuring
out what to do with this damage from, from, uh, the Gorn before.
And her moment of realization going, we are gonna save everybody,
was an incredible turning point for her as a character who's been
so shadowed by that darkness.
Um,
Kevin: This really was, it was the second part of this season two
finale to the point where like the next episode we're about to talking
about has a time jump before it.
And it really feels like season three only starts with Wedding Bell Blues.
This was the end of season two, very much, and all of the, the story arcs
that concluded, including the Goren threat, to all appearances, um, it
really was a, a great big full stop.
The other thing I'll say about this second parter is it, it also echoes
Best of Both Worlds Part two, in that it didn't feel completely pre-planned.
There were things established or set up in the first part that I
felt like were dropped or, or were, were fake outs for the second part.
In the first part, there was a lot of hand wringing about are the Gorn monsters.
Or is monster just a word for someone you don't understand yet?
Rob: Yes.
Kevin: Yeah, and that felt like it was setting up a very Star Trek idealistic,
um, view of like, okay, well inevitably we are heading towards a place where we
come to some understanding with the Gorn.
But in the end, the, the, I think they get treated as monsters here.
They get, you know, tricked into flying into the light bulb as
moths would to a flame, you know?
Uh, and, and that felt like a departure from the direction or like a slight
course correction that I'm not sure they would have scripted part one if they knew
that's where they were going, in part two.
The demarcation line that we saw in part one as well, where the gorn kind of sent
out a signal and said, here's our line.
It goes conspicuously right through the middle of the star system and cuts off the
Enterprise from the people on the planet.
That felt purposeful.
It felt like a plot point that was intended to pay off as
something, but it didn't really.
Uh, this episode very quickly, we went from, there's a line in space
to They're invading the Federation.
Rob: Yeah.
Yeah.
And it did seem like, um.
Uh, there was the, the rush job of trying to get everything concluded
so we could move on to starting the, you know, the new season for real.
Um, I like the, the lesser of two evils, so not going to out and out war or finding
a way to destroy them, finding that way of putting them into hibernation.
So as Mount says, um, as Pike says, um, I feel as if we've left this
for somebody else to deal with.
Kevin: Captain, his name is Captain Kirk.
He's on your ship, uh uh, now and then you might know
Rob: You've met him multiple times, even though
Kevin: He, he will be dealing with an invasion on Cestus III.
The, the name of that star system was very conspicuously highlighted
on the star chart that we saw in this episode, and it was like, yeah, Cestus.
That's where the next thing's gonna happen.
You already know that though.
Rob: Easter egg, Easter egg.
Um, it was great to see, um, Scotty making his way into, uh, the crew and
his work with, um, uh, the wonderful Carol Kane is just amazing that, that
Kevin: Yeah.
Rob: the dy the dynamic between the two of them is great.
Kevin: It really works.
Pelia felt like a loose thread in all of season two to me, much as they
tried to establish her character.
Like famously, the actor herself said, you really want me for a Star Trek role?
And they said, we want exactly your vibe.
Trust us.
We know what we're doing.
it didn't really make sense to me until now, like the, the
two of them paired together.
Um.
Like I kind of start to see how Scotty becomes Scotty because he had such a
wacky, weird teacher in Pelia, and the two of them do have a great dynamic together.
So yeah, I am buying into Pelia more now that Scotty's here
Rob: It is very much, yeah,
Kevin: complete the double act.
Rob: It's very much like what they were doing with, um, with Uhura and um,
Kevin: Hemmer.
Yeah.
Rob: In, uh, season one.
This seems to be something if they keep with that momentum, this is gonna be
something I think really special to see how we get to that point where now
Scotty is a little bit unsure of himself, doubts himself and how to get to that
point where he learns from, uh, Pelia to go to, yep, I can solve any problem.
Got a deadline.
Get to that point.
Kevin: Well, you've jinxed it now.
Pelia is obviously getting infected with
Rob: Yep.
Kevin: and jumping off of a, a, a shuttle bay door.
Yeah.
Her demise.
Oh, well.
Rob: The, the, the one thing standing out for me over the last two seasons has been
the handling of the character of Ortegas.
Um,
Kevin: Oh yeah.
She was like, they, they played with us and, and almost convinced
us that they were gonna kill her off this episode, and it seemed possible
because she is so underserved.
Rob: Yes.
And a part of me is there going, oh man, the killer off in the
first episode of the new season?
That would just rub it in, how badly they've kind of, they haven't, they've
always, they've even been self, almost self aware of it, of like,
Kevin: They obviously are.
They, they are, yeah.
They went, oh, we've done this wrong.
What can we do with that before we correct the
Rob: Yes, and we will be talking about it next episode, but because we're
doing it all in the one what they're.
What they have done with her or what they're hopefully trying, what
I hope they're trying to do is, um, they're going, Hey, finally
she's getting some character work and getting something to do.
Kevin: She was really funny.
I love the, don't be rude, of course I can fly it, uh, moment.
Rob: It's good to, and I, I always like, I know his fate in the end,
but I love having Sam Kirk around.
Sam Kirk is doing is great fun.
The actor's doing a wonderful job, and that dynamic with the team was good.
Kevin: He was even better in the next episode.
No one likes your mustache.
Rob: Just the point, the point where you said something and they went, why would
you say that you've jinxed us, Sam Kirk?
Kevin: I have to say the, the dark bridge when it was like red alert
and, and, and things were at their darkest in this episode, it really
gave original series vibes to me.
Like when you turn the lights off on that set and all you see is the
red strip lighting, it suddenly feels just like that bridge in the
sixties when it was in submarine mode.
Like in, uh, Balance of Terror when they turn the lights down
low on both those sets, suddenly I feel like they are the same place.
And it was really satisfying.
Yeah.
Um, and then, yeah, right at the end Pike, uh, getting down on
his knees to say a prayer next to, uh, next to Batel's bedside.
Rob: I really.
Kevin: That felt significant in Star Trek to me.
Rob: Because it has been.
Kevin: They tend to avoid Christianity.
Rob: Oh, religion, in any human religion in any way.
They more than happy to talk about, uh, the Bajorans' religion
or, um, the, the belief of the Klingons and stuff like that.
But, um, uh, it has been dropped before.
I know it was in, uh, Those Old Scientists Pike mentioned his, uh, you know, his
background and his relationship with his dad and, you know, hint hints of it
there, but for me, it was a powerful, beautiful moment of like, this is, you
know, and for me as someone who grew up watching, uh, and falling in love with,
um, the Planet of the Apes movies, those movies dealt a lot with the balance of
science and religion and, um, Star Trek hasn't really dealt with that from a
human point of view of that Christianity or Buddhism or, um, any type of, you
know, um, belief system on Earth and how that connects within the Federation.
So to have that moment, um, was a beautiful little, little tease, little
taster of, um, uh, how Pike was at this point of, of, uh, the crisis.
Kevin: Yeah, absolutely.
It felt, um, it felt out of the ordinary to me for what I'm used to in Star
Trek, but also it feels like Star Trek growing in response to the culture.
Like in the sixties when Gene Roddenberry, no doubt in the show bible outlawed
any mention of God or Christianity, um, it was because that was a cult,
uh, a countercultural act at the time.
And these days it feels like almost like acknowledging people's religious
beliefs, that there is a variety of those, including the Christian
faith is itself a countercultural
Rob: Yeah.
Kevin: That yeah.
That is just another form of inclusion that is the, the, the
consistent gospel, if you will, uh, Star Trek has always preached.
Rob: And I think, I think that's a good way to look at it.
It has been quite inclusive, especially within the new era of, um, Star
Trek, especially since Discovery came back, that has caused a lot of ire
amongst, uh, more traditional fans.
But to include all.
Is, um, a great statement, uh, from, from Star Trek down to going,
yes, we are inclusive of, uh, all different types of identification
and, and cultures and stuff.
And that also includes, uh, faith as well in a, it not in a major way.
They have, obviously it's not shaped around an entire episode
or a story or an arc, but to have that moment, it's a nice little nod
and it may come back, it may not.
We'll, uh, we'll see how it goes.
Kevin: So I'll say this was a, really well executed second part.
It stuck the landing.
I won't go as far as to say, like this is a, a classic episode that I'll be
rewatching over and over again, but it was satisfying, well executed.
It made me remember why I missed this show.
Rob: Yeah, I, I, I really liked it.
I, I, I liked the intensity of it.
I liked the, the stakes were high.
Um, and, uh, the, the, the whole team working as a unit so well.
They're in their characters now.
Whether they have a decent amount of time or not, they are living, breathing
their characters, their relationships.
And to be that fully fleshed only after like 20 episodes and two
seasons is a credit to, to them as a, as, as a, as a company.
Kevin: Speaking of the company, the company expanded a bit in our next
episode, which is Wedding Bell Blues and uh, yeah, if you're keeping count,
and I was, we got Ortegas' brother, we got a new nurse, and we got a new
bartender, or even two, depending how you count them in this episode.
Rob: we got the, uh, the entrance finally, of a, um, uh, quite
important figure within the classic series, um, uh, cannon with, uh,
with, uh, Roger Korby has arrived.
Kevin: Hmm.
Or as, uh, I saw it.
Someone mention online in a chat room.
I follow, uh, Dogtor Corby was in this episode.
Rob: Is, is that the Irish tones coming through Dr. Korby?
Kevin: No, it's the, uh, it's the bulldog he was turned
Rob: That's right.
He was turned into a beautiful bulldog.
I thought it was a thought, it was a, a strained Irish accent because he's
got, he's got that lith to his voice.
Kevin: For the record, not at all irish, that character in the original uh, series?
Rob: I was wondering, I was wondering if it was any ties there or, Nope.
They just made, they're playing loose and fancy free with their cannon, which
a lot of people will be, it will be the hill that they live and die on.
Kevin: Yeah, I, I mean, yeah, the, the, the number of things you have to
just go with and go, oh, well, it's a different version of the same story.
Um, yeah, just go along with it.
Rob: I think that's where we're, I think we settled on that near the
end of last season or something.
Kevin: I, I do have to say it was a little disappointing.
When he appeared.
I was like, oh, who did they get and how does he echo the original character?
And they got someone who's attractive with an interesting accent who
would sell to today's audiences.
And, as far as I can tell, no thought was given to linking him
to the original character, who was a single episode guest star.
Rob: Yes.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
More to serve a point to the plot as opposed to, yeah.
Kevin: There was definitely more linking the two versions of Trelane
that we got to meet, though.
So We had our good friend Rhys Darby, take on the, uh, the role
of Trelane, our, our proto-Q.
Rob: Which
Kevin: the
Rob: which has only been connected via novelization, or Yes.
Written by an author who's Peter David, who sadly passed away quite
Kevin: He away, uh, during this hiatus very recently.
I read a lot of Peter David Star Trek comics back in the and one or two
of his novels, uh, I've read a lot of his non-Star Trek stuff as well.
He was a, just a great genre fiction writer.
He, um, did some original stuff, but he was best known for like,
taking other fandoms and like finding stories within the cracks.
And I'd say no one ever did it better than Peter David.
So, yeah, I do miss him.
Rob: Yes, yes.
Our, our thoughts were with him and his family, and the people
who knew him and loved him.
Um, had you read that, uh, novelization, which, uh, connects Trelane and um, Q?
Kevin: No, I didn't.
I have only read the fan theories over the years of, of, uh,
you know, they are similar.
There are diff they are differences in some ways.
I, I went back inspired by this episode.
I went back and watched the Squire of Goos, uh, from the original series,
which is the episode in which we, the crew of the enterprise meets Trelane
and Spock does not recognize him, but they account for that in Wedding
Bell Blues by making Trelane um, wear a, a mask or a a, a disguise.
Everyone else sees him as the Vulcan bartender and then
the c wedding planner only.
We get to see him as Rhys Darby, who looks a lot or, or certainly echoes the vibe of
Trelane in the original series episode.
So you can, forgive Spock and the other crew members in, in common
with the two episodes for not recognizing Trelane when he returns.
Rob: Fast and loose cannon.
Kevin: The thing that doesn't quite stack up and that you have to kind of like
just go with is a big plot point in the original episode is that Trelane is all
dressed in, uh, like period military garb.
He lives in a, in a castle on a, on his planet that's filled, filled with
recreations of, um, human history junk.
Uh, and the crew makes a point of going, oh, well, this lines up because he
is this many light years from Earth.
And so if he is watching Earth at this distance, this is the
version of earth that he's seeing.
And they also talk about how none of the food has any flavor and, and so
like the, the, the version of Earth that he recreates is without substance.
It, all of the, all of the shape, all of the forms, but none of its
substance is, is what Spock says.
Rob: It is
Kevin: So that doesn't quite line up with this new story where Trelane
visited Starbase One and participated in a human wedding and helped cater
and pour drinks at a bar does not line up with someone who does not Earth's
Rob: Now thi, thi, this guy knew everything about all the substances,
um, if you know what I mean.
Um, so yeah, this is a, this is a big flip, this episode a and it's,
it's just a reminder of you've missed a Strange New Worlds for two years?
Let's just remind you of how episodic we are.
Let's, let's,
Kevin: And how nostalgia driven it can be.
Rob: Yes.
Kevin: basically borrowed from two different episodes of the original series
with Roger Korby from What Are Little
and Trelane from the Squire of Gothos, and went we'll knit those two like
satisfying references for fans into, a, a paper thin episode that ends exactly
the same way as the Squire of Gothos did.
And the fans will delight with their nostalgia berries, and job done.
Like that is the obvious criticism of this
Rob: Mm-hmm.
Kevin: think the, the.
The, the journey is more satisfying than that conclusion would, would paint.
I think like it was a fun ride this episode, the, the moments of, you
know, Spock punching, uh, Korby in the face and then feeling bad about
it when he realizes what's going on.
And so he's, he lies in bed with his guilt until Korby regains consciousness,
like all of that business, all of the costumes at the wedding, all of the
Sam Kirk in, uh, a very traditional wedding outfit, while everyone else
is wildly dressed in space garb, all of that was really delightful.
So I think, uh, like ironically, this episode was more
about style than substance.
Rob: Yeah.
Yeah, I can definitely, uh, see that.
And also, uh, a certain actor returning to voice a certain, uh, God-like orb, uh,
Kevin: Yes, I have not fully researched what they're establishing there, but I
believe when we last saw Q talking about, uh, reproduction in the Q continuum on
Star Trek: Voyager, he said something along the lines of the last child born
in the continuum was born like two millennia ago, or something like that.
And my understanding is if you do the math with Trelane says about his
age in this episode, those line up.
So you could say, Trelane is the last child born in the Q continuum
before Captain Janeway helps Q with and Q with their, their relationship
problems in Star Trek: Voyager.
Rob: Rhys Darby did an excellent job, as always, bringing in
that energy of a certain type of actor filling in that role.
I get this, I I got a weird sense of like, um, uh, Rain Wilson coming in as Mudd.
Yeah.
Kevin: Yeah.
It's satisfying when a well-known actor jumps into your cannon
and validates it by their
I was like, Rhys Darby knows what Star Trek is.
Uh, I don't know how serious a fan he is, but I'm just happy
you're in the tent, you know?
Rob: Yes.
Um, and, uh, uh, really interesting stuff with, uh, Ortegas's brother who's
been mentioned before, showing up now.
And, uh,
Kevin: Was it interesting?
I'm yet to be
Rob: uh, I was kind of, I was kind of liking the whole big sister and, um, uh,
Uhura flirting type of stuff, dynamic.
Um,
Kevin: It felt a little paint by numbers to me.
Like saying, rather than telling.
I don't, I don't believe there's an attraction there.
I was told there was an attraction there.
I don't believe it annoys her.
I was told it.
So I like, I'm waiting to feel it, but they're setting up for something
that I hope goes, goes somewhere fun.
Rob: Well, speaking of feeling, I really felt, uh, the exploration of the damage,
uh, done to Ortegas physically and also mentally, specifically mentally.
I really started to feel that and I'm there going, I'm in this, I'm in for this.
If you are doing this with Ortegas this season to
Kevin: Yeah.
Rob: focus on her and focus on her in this way, especially because she wanted
to go on away missions and for this away mission, I do in inverted commas, she, she
saw how serious that type of stuff is and
Kevin: We had a hint of it last season when, in that episode where everyone was
like forgetting their, their, who they were, their identities and, and like
she went into this spiral of fear until she was reminded that she flies the ship
and that's what allowed her to kind of like her teeth and get back to work.
But like, that was a hint of it.
It feels like they're going, that was interesting enough that we are, we are
going to do the full version of that now.
Rob: Yes.
And then becoming a mantra.
So it takes away the, the potential shallowness of it being an almost
humorous of going, that's all she is, but it becoming a part of, you know, this
traumatic event and how that affects her is a really powerful way of inverting
that type of mantra, so it doesn't become like a, a laughing stock type of moment.
I'm kind of, I think we're done with lovesick Spock.
Hope, I hope we're done with lovesick Spock.
Yeah.
I think that was kind of, um.
It's more of a season two thing and we had a nice little resolution, I think, but
three months later and he still lovesick.
There was some nice humorous, awkward moments that everyone was reading
the room, uh, except some people.
Um, but yeah, I'm ready for that to be over.
Mind you, it was cute at the start where he's looking at two of the exact same
shirts and which one should he wear?
That was cute.
Kevin: It was cute, but I also went, oh, this is one of those episodes.
Rob: Yeah.
Um,
Kevin: This is one of those episodes where you're asked to buy into everyone
being a little stupider than they are most episodes, but it's, it's for comic effect.
Rob: I didn't get to bring it up, but it was, it played out
really nicely last episode.
Um, I really love Ethan Peck, and I love what he's doing with Spock.
And there was some beautiful moments.
This episode, you couldn't really judge it because was, it was the light one.
Um, but those moments when he punches Korby and that snaps him out of it moment.
Kevin: The in the bar with, please do go on, I've recently become a student
of romance, or something like that.
Like, you're like, oh man, you are getting hurt, my friend.
Um, you feel for him?
Yeah, I, do agree.
That stuff works well.
Rob: For me, yeah.
I'm seeing elements that I feel a lot of versions of Spock after the definitive,
uh, Leonard Nimoy was always great at you.
He wasn't robotic.
He was never robotic.
Even in the sixties.
Watching episodes, I'm there going, he is bringing so much shade and color and tone.
That's why he was a master actor, an incredible actor.
Underrated in, in much in many ways.
But he brought that out so much in the original films that beautiful nuance.
And Ethan Peck is getting that now.
He didn't really, he had elements of it in, um, in elements of Discovery
and a little bit of season one, but he's at that point now, peak Spock,
where he can really show that, uh, that wonderful color and range.
So I'm really loving,
Kevin: I'm ready for him to start to mature and season though I agree
with seen, we've seen young Spock.
Let's,
Rob: Let's let, let's get Love six Bach out of the way.
I loved his son, his scenes with La'an.
I think that's, there's a really good relationship between the two of
them and La'an's like breaking free of her guilt and darkness to see a
side of her, which um, is wonderful.
Kevin: I'll be interested to see how that con character continues to evolve,
because I feel like La'an has established in this series and actor, Christina
Chong, uh, are, are, are very different
Rob: Yeah.
Kevin: Uh, Christina Chong is a girly girl who wants to dress pretty and dance, and
Rob: Sing and dance and musical
Kevin: takes her doggy with her everywhere.
And she's a singer.
Yeah.
And, and La'an is this damaged, guarded, um, very serious, powerful character.
I feel like with La'an we've been getting to see what Tasha Yar could
been if they really invested in
Rob: That's a great way of looking at it.
Yeah.
Kevin: and I'm really liking it.
But with this episode, like, and it happened previously in the episode
where they all played the, the storybook fantasy characters, Christina Chong broke
through in the dancing scenes here and I was like, uh, it is not quite La'an,
I don't think, so I'll be interested to see how they continue to, to balance
between what Christina Chong wants to do and what La'an on the character wants
Rob: And that's always a bit of a danger when you are on
a TV show for far too long.
The writers pick up on the actors' traits and, uh, getting to that
point of do you lose your character to the, uh, the actor or, yeah.
Kevin: I'm okay with the character evolving, but like, I think back
to the musical episode last season and her song, I've, I've listened
to it a few times because it's one of my favorites from, you know, an
uneven episode, as we've discussed.
There are a few songs that are highlights for me and, hers, um.
Is basically a song saying, what if I did open up?
What if I did become someone who wears their heart on their
sleeves and feels their feelings?
No, that's not me.
Point of the song is, that's not me.
That's not the kind of person who I am.
If I'm gonna be myself, I need to accept that I am not someone who wears their
heart on their I never will be, uh, even though I might wonder how that might be.
Um, so I, I really love that statement of this character's purpose.
And every time the Christina Chong, uh, girly girl stuff breaks through, I hope
that doesn't sound derogatory, but I feel like it is, it is not the promise
we've been made about that character.
Rob: Yes.
And yeah, it's that finding that balance of the actor and the character.
Um, so yeah, there's been a lot of negativity online.
I'm trying to cut that out.
I, I, I loved it.
I thought it was a very, yeah, like you said, it was style over substance,
but I had a lot of fun with it, and as soon as it started went, all
right, this is the episode we've got.
Kevin: I, I'd say I liked it less than Hegemony part two, but my partner,
she was like, oh, fi this is good.
Like Hegemony.
I was like, oh, when is this gonna be over?
The Shooty, Shooty Bang Bangs?
This was like character comedy and she lives for.
So, so, um, yeah, different Star Trek, different episodes for folks.
Rob: And that's what we love about the show.
Kevin: We picked bartenders as our topic from these two episodes
because wedding Bell Blues here has not one, but two new bartenders.
We have Rhys Darby posing as a Vulcan, and then we have the, uh, the
three armed character who's, who's, uh, race, I forget the name of,
Rob: I forget the race off as well, but they did appear in the animated series.
Kevin: Yeah.
And then again, in Lower Decks.
It is… Edosians.
Rob: I am glad this Edosian doesn't sound like the Edosian in
the animated series 'cause that
Kevin: Oh,
Rob: grates on my soul.
Kevin: Would you like it shaken or stirred?
Rob: See, I no.
You could speak like that to me for hours, Kevin Yank.
That was, that was music to my ears as opposed to the
dissonance that that all right.
It was, yeah.
It was so odd.
Um, but that was a, yeah.
Lovely little introduction in a, a flare like that.
And a character was established very quickly within like a minute or two, so.
Kevin: Very quickly.
The, the, the recruiting practices for, for non-commissioned staff
aboard Starships are a little strange.
But what else is new?
Star Trek's always a little strange in the margins of their society.
So yeah, this was fun.
I, I also, I just liked, liked the moments we've been given in these two episodes of,
um, Pike and Number One, working as team.
The captain and first office dynamic has been lacking with pike's
absence last season and we've had it again, and it's really satisfying.
Rob: Um, Rebecca Romijn is incredible.
And, um, for someone who came from modeling into acting and, uh, what she.
Has done throughout her career and what she's doing now, this
is, this is Peak Rebecca Romijn.
This is re, Rebecca Romijn at her best, doing
Kevin: She's underplaying everything and it's really effective.
Rob: And, but she's being there for, for Pike.
She's being there for a crew, which we've seen before.
But like you said, the dynamic between the two of them has been missing
because Anson Mount has been AOL, you know, AWOL with daddy stuff.
Um, but she's just outstanding and doing a fabulous tribute to a character
created by Majel Barrett obviously.
Kevin: Yeah.
Yeah.
So we'll see how this, this new bartender plays out along
with the new nurse in sick bay
Rob: Yeah, they'll love
Kevin: uh, and Ortegas's brother also who seems to be joining the
Rob: They like each other.
Didn't you tell they liked each other?
Ortegas's brother and Uhura like each other.
Kevin: I believe I was told that, yes.
Um, so.
Let's talk about bartenders, because this is not the first bartender to join a cast.
Uh, some of them have been baked in from the beginning.
Some of them have been strapped on halfway through, them
were just little guest stars.
Uh, so I, I, I have a feeling I know which bartender comes to your mind and foremost.
Let's
Rob: Let's start with Quark.
Yeah.
He's, uh, Quark's an interesting one because he doesn't, yeah, he can be
a bartender, but mostly he's sort of like the owner of the saloon, really
in the wild west, if we're doing that.
But he has, he does have those moments of sort of like serving a drink, uh,
filling in the role of what a bartender does as counselor or encourager or,
uh, you, uh, an open ear to listen.
Um, in many ways, Vic Fontaine becomes that more in the seasons.
Kevin: Was gonna say the same.
'cause, 'cause um, he has his moments, but quirk usually is not
there to give you good advice.
Rob: No, no.
He kind of, his antagonistic relationship with Odo develops into, you know,
they say what they mean to each other and or if there's a problem they
help each other out in, you know, in underhanded ways so that they can still
keep up that facade of antagonists.
Um, but the role of, the traditional role of that bartender support,
you know, font Vic Fontaine, when he came in, he did that.
He did it for Nog, he did it for Odo to, to finally gum up the courage to,
you know, say his feelings towards Kira.
Um, whereas yeah, quo was more of the antagonistic, uh,
force within, um, the bar.
Kevin: Nevertheless, I, I loved him in those moments where he was behind the bar
and wiping the table or, or haranguing his, his staff for, for not doing a bad
Rob: His relationship
Kevin: he was actually doing his job.
It was so fun to watch.
Rob: Hi.
Uh, his relationship with Morn was always good.
Always.
You know, Morn was the first to enter, last to leave.
Um, creating that, uh, that atmosphere of what Quark's is and would be to go to, um.
Armin Shimmerman was, you know an incredible performer.
And I love stories of every time there was a qua a, um, her faren focused episode in
Deep Space Nine, he would always invite all the ferengis around to his house.
Um, they'd have dinner.
Him and his wife would serve dinner and they'd do a script reading, go
through their characters like the night before, the first day of shooting or
uh, that type of stuff I love hearing about, the community that he built up.
And in many ways, Armin Shimmerman was the open bartender, inviting people in,
uh, against character, so bless him.
Kevin: I loved how that character occasionally departed from our, our core.
Crew because he was not fully bought into the ideals of the Federation.
I mean, that was the power of that show, is that there were cast regulars
who were not part of a Starfleet crew.
And therefore, every once in a while, their ethics, their morals,
their, uh, loyalties, diverged from, uh, the rest of the characters
Rob: And dare, dare I say, makes it a bit more interesting to have a
character like Garak a, a character like Quark who is not following that
procedure than take us to places we would, you know, not normally see.
Kevin: My favorite scene of Quark's is a little moment that almost
didn't make it onto the screen.
It's from The Way of the Warrior and it's the root beer scene with Garak.
Rob: Yeah,
Kevin: Uh, and, uh, you know, it's, it's The Way of the Warrior.
It's this huge high stakes like invasion day sort of,
Rob: multiple episodes.
Kevin: And that episode was coming in short, so they had to write some extra
material for it at the last minute.
And this scene is what they wrote.
Uh, and Quark and Garak are at the bar and Quark goes, I want
you to try something for me.
Take a sip of this.
And Garak goes, What is it?
A human drink.
It's called root beer.
I don't know.
Come on.
Aren't you just a little bit curious?
And Garak takes a sip, wincing as he tastes it.
What do you think?
Garrick goes, it's vile!
I know.
It's so bubbly, cloying, and happy.
Garak says, Just like the Federation.
And you know what's really frightening?
If you drink enough of it, you begin to like it.
Garak says, It's insidious.
Just
Rob: the Federation.
Kevin: Ugh.
Rob: I remember that now.
I remember that.
Yeah.
Beautiful scene.
Kevin: And after they shot the episode, they had too much, and there was a
real discussion about cutting that scene because it was last in first out.
But they were so happy with what it had done, what it said about these
characters, about how the way they viewed the Federation, not in a black and white,
good versus bad way, but as one of the shades of gray they get to choose from.
Um, so they kept it in.
I'm so glad it's my favorite Quark moment.
Rob: I love Deep Search Nine.
Have I ever told you that, Kevin?
I,
Kevin: feeling
Rob: um,
Kevin: You don't need to tell me.
You don't need to tell me that.
I could feel it, Rob.
Rob: Yeah, that's right.
I, I, I, I, show, don't tell.
Um, it's a good thing we've got a screen, so I feel like I know which
bartender you'd like to talk about next.
Kevin: Are we talking about Guinan?
Rob: Yeah.
Kevin: Yeah.
Rob: The great Oscar winning Whoopi Goldberg.
Kevin: Yes.
Rob: Who's so important, so famous, they literally could
go, I want to be on the show.
And they went,
Kevin: Look.
Yeah,
Rob: I'll create a character you.
Kevin: I don't know how much Reese Darby knows his Trek, but when Guinan joined
the show, it was known she was a fan could not wait to be let onto that starship.
Rob: And it, it's safe to say during this time, like late eighties, she,
'cause she didn't join until se
Kevin: 1988, this se, season two, episode
Rob: Season two.
Yeah.
Um, this is Whoopi Goldberg at the height of her popularity.
This is just before she
Kevin: not, she wasn't, she was slumming it as much as she ever did in her career.
Rob: If, if anything
Kevin: did this entirely for the love, not the paycheck.
Rob: Everyone going Whoopi Goldberg.
And, and this was definitely of the time where film was held in a higher esteem.
And if you were doing,
Kevin: She was Sister Act.
She was, she was
Rob: Yeah, is just before she got, um, her Oscar for Ghost, which was 1990.
Um, but at the moment, yeah, obviously things are different now with escape
of where streaming and TV series are held, if not more regarded
for its dramatic work for actors.
And so you can go from film and television.
But back in the eighties, like in the seventies, if you were doing
TV that was seen as slumming it.
Um, and for a, a film star to go and do, like if you're a theater actor, oh.
But if you got TV oh, that's good.
But if you, and if you're a TV actor who could move in
the film, you are a superstar.
But if you're a film actor coming back down to TV.
Your career was over.
So for Whoopi Goldberg to just go, I love this show so much, I don't care.
I wanna be in it in any way.
And for them to create this character just for her is still, uh, it
still gives me tingles of joy.
Kevin: It was, I would say a rough time to join Star Trek: The Next Generation.
It had a very bumpy first season.
Famously, the, the writing, um, staff entirely left after the
Rob: that's
Kevin: another recent Star Trek series we know of.
But there's a, there's a documentary called, uh, Chaos on the Bridge that
some people say is not exactly true, but if half of what it talks about
is true, it was, it was a rough place
Rob: Yeah.
Kevin: season one, TNG.
Um, chaotic to say the least.
But season two of NextGen came back with a confidence.
They redesigned the uniforms, um, Crusher left and was replaced by
Pulaski in this very same episode.
And, uh, they built, they built the shuttle bay deck and they
built Ten Forward for Guinan.
Rob: Yes.
Kevin: So really like this is when people ask me, should I, should
I watch Next Gen? I'll say, look, Next Gen is my favorite Star Trek.
But you could skip the entire first season and just read the
cliff notes of what that was.
Because there are definitely, it's first season you gotta, you gotta grit your
teeth through some pretty awkward moments.
Rob: Yeah, I've always like, I've, I've always wanted to go the full dive, but
I've always come in from, it's like with me trying to read Lord of the Rings,
I always, I never get outta Hobbiton and I can never get past, uh, you know,
season one, I've barely make a dent.
But when you throw me episodes for me to watch from later seasons, I'm
going, ah, I can watch this every week.
Kevin: So, yeah, it's a cliche, but I think season two, episode one
where Guinan joins the ship is really where Star Trek Next Gen gets good.
It finds its confidence, um, and there's a new creative team behind it.
There's new money behind it, and it really is the show they set out to make, but
didn't quite get there in season one.
Rob: Yes.
Kevin: Uh, so yeah.
And um.
Guinan is Guinan right away as well.
There's no beating about the bush.
They knew what that character was gonna be from the beginning, right
to her guest appearance in in Picard.
Um, it is the same character throughout.
She does one thing and one thing well.
She tells you annoying anecdotes that end up that, that are on the surface about
her, but they're actually about yourself,
which I think is a really a bartender thing to do.
Lemme tell you a, that reminds me of a story.
Rob: I remember this guy that once knew is, uh, reminds me a
little bit of you right there.
Kevin: And, uh, yeah.
In this episode, because Crusher has left, one of the plot points is that Wesley is
planning to leave the ship to go and be with his mother at Starfleet Headquarters.
But he is sad about leaving the Enterprise and at, at a point in this episode,
he is standing in the big windows of Ten Forward looking out at the galaxy.
And Guinan walks up and offers him a drink.
And he says, no thank you.
So she offers him another drink and he says, no thank you.
And she offers him a third drink and he, he cracks it and goes,
I've refused you three times.
Why do you keep doing that?
And she goes, because it's expected of me.
Don't you always do what's expected of you?
Her, her point of course is that if he doesn't wanna leave
the ship, he shouldn't do it.
And so he decides to stick around.
Um, and that, like, she, she appears briefly and then is in one meaningful
conversation alone with a member of the cast who changes their minds about
something at the last minute thanks to her advice, advice, her, her, very veiled
advice, um, is, is the thing that she does again and again, right up to the
very last time we've seen that character.
Rob: Um, she did have.
In many ways a leading role in Yesterday's Enterprise that was focused
episode solely on her, um, where everybody else has forgotten them.
We've gone to an alternative dimension, but because of Guinan's uh, uh,
history and her, um, her what race she
Kevin: pivotal in the, the, the, her, her role in the plot.
But I would say that that is not so much an episode about Guinan.
It's more about the people whose lives are changed, uh,
for the better, for the worse.
Rob: It is very much
Kevin: Tasha Yar very much,
Rob: and she's there to facilitate sort of like tell the characters why
they need to change and why they need to do this, as opposed to this is
Kevin: Yeah, it's an exceptional script for her because she
comes out and says it for once.
She says to Tasha, you're not supposed to be
Rob: Yeah,
Kevin: Um, which is being that direct does not come naturally to so that's the,
that's the exception that proves the rule.
Rob: She's very much, 'cause they, it's like hint to the fact that she
is from a race that lives longer than humans, that she's all and, and the way.
Kevin: an El-Aurian, the same as, uh, uh, the doctor in, uh, Generations.
Rob: right, Malcolm, uh, McDowell, Soran.
Um, and yeah, having her in that movie and without her, uh, headpiece
with her hair flowing down again, she explains the nexus to, um, Picard.
Um.
Kevin: She is linked to many pieces of Star Trek Next Gen lore.
She, she has a, like a barely explained rivalry with Q. There's an episode where
Q comes aboard and she gets her hackles up and, and it's like they, they are
races who hate each other preternaturally.
Really cool moment.
Um and the Borg.
The Borg destroyed her home world.
And so every time the Borg come back, in a way, Guinan comes back,
or there's a reason to bring Guinan back because she, she accepts
everyone for who they are except the Borg who destroyed her, her home.
And, that is, a, an another thing that she's connected to.
So yeah, like, I don't know if it's just, she's our most famous actor,
so anytime something momentous happens, we make, we'll make sure she
has feelings about it or, or what.
But yeah, I feel like she is in some ways, uh, the hub, uh, at the center of
the spokes of Star Trek Next Gen Lore.
Rob: Yeah, it like it, it's never been described as stunt casting.
Um, and I'm trying to think is, you know, anyone bigger as a, a
movie star ever doing Star Trek?
I mean, I know there were rumors that, um, Tom Hanks was offered to play to
be a Zephram Cochrane in First Contact.
Um, which I always thought, oh,
Kevin: Slater in Star Trek VI.
Rob: Well, I was just about to mention the Ensign coming to wake up Captain Sulu,
um, or Ricardo Montalban coming back.
Um, yeah.
But um.
Kevin: But he was famous for tv, not movies then as well.
So yeah, I think you're right.
Whoopi Goldberg is the most famous Star Trek actor.
Rob: And even like in the, in the Kelvin line ones like the villain for,
for the all three of the movies you had Eric Banner, who's like a jobing
actor, but I wouldn't say a movie star.
He's done a lot of movies.
Um, then you've got Benedict Cumberbatch who was just starting to ascend, but
even he's become more just not an icon, but more of just a, a jobbing actor.
And then you've got Idris Elba, who's a dropping actor as well,
and they haven't broken into that
Kevin: Funny, those, those like, um, special guest stars in the movies
to me, for whatever reason, they actually diminish those movies.
Rob: Right.
Kevin: almost as if like the movie needs that star in order to make
it worthy of mass market attention.
Whereas in the TV appearances when the stars appear on TV,
feel like they are uplifting the, the, uh, property in a weird way.
I don't know why it works that way in my brain, but it does.
Rob: No, I, I, I, I get that as well.
Especially, and it showed with Discovery.
Once you getting an actor like, getting Michelle Yeoh, even though,
you know, at that point she hadn't won an Oscar, but that was when, oh wow.
That's a big moment.
And Jason Isaacs as well in that regular role and then bringing in Rainn Wilson
was, was a, a powerful move as well.
And Rhys Darby now.
Um,
Kevin: don't know if it's the commitment it takes to be a part of a TV show.
It, it shows that like, I'm not just here for paycheck.
I'm gonna do the hard work being on series, uh, speaks to the level
of, you know, I'm known for my movies, but I'm willing to do this
because I think Star is worthy.
Maybe that's
Rob: I think so.
I think that's a good way to look at it.
Kevin: Uh, before we go this week, I had one more bartender I wanted to throw in
the mix when I hear the word bartender in Star Trek, my mind immediately goes there.
And that is the unnamed bartender on Deep Space Station K-7 in The Trouble
with Tribbles, and the beautiful little clown scene he has right before the
bar fight, when Cyrano Jones tries to buy a drink by trading a tribble.
And he goes a tribble.
A tribble?
And he just goes, A tribble.
And he just starts putting tribbles on tribble a tribble, know.
And just, and the, the funny Star Trek clown music is playing and
he makes a big pile of tribbles and then he, he just looks at him.
And it's a, it's a unusual, silent, mostly silent clown scene in the
middle of a Star Trek episode that is by itself unusual, but this, this
was peak Star Trek is going somewhere it doesn't normally go this moment.
And, uh, the, the actor, was named Guy Raymond and I looked it up today.
Apparently he also played a bartender in beer commercials around this
time, in which he commented on the strange occurrences in his bar.
And so he was, he was typecast as a bartender in a bar
where strange things happen.
Rob: But, um, with this particular episode, he got to flex his muscles a bit
more and show his, uh, clowning prowess.
Kevin: Well, not that much 'cause he was wearing a leather jacket.
As, as all the civilians in this episode, they were wearing colored
leather jackets like I was the, the imagined future civilian garb of the
Rob: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
That, that tracks, that tracks for me.
Um, so yeah, that's, uh, our exploration of the first two episodes of, uh,
season three of Strange New Worlds.
We are back and we had a little, uh, exploration of, uh, how those wonderful
bartenders, uh, make their way into the hearts of not only the crew,
but fans of Star Trek, everywhere.
Kevin: It's good to be back and it's good that the, with Less
Star Trek on tv, the stuff we are getting feels good, feels like high
Rob: Well, yeah, we were, we were in, so like we were in a good run for a while.
Like we had discovery prodigy, um, uh, Lower Decks.
We were powering through.
And then when we, when we finished the most recent, I think last
one we did was Lower Decks.
We went, oh, right, well, um, yeah.
Kevin: See you in six
Rob: And then nothing, like nothing at all.
There's been, uh, uh, it, it's been, it's been a wasteland,
uh, in the Badlands as it were.
Um, so yeah, and like you said that we don't, not sure when, um,
Star Trek, acade, uh, Starfleet Academy is, is occurring.
Um, so let's relish, um, the, the remaining eight episodes we have to,
to get through of, um, uh, you know, at least the most consistently rated
and from what I know on like Rotten Tomatoes, it's the highest or, um,
highest rated, like, uh, critics response reviews, I think of the show.
Kevin: Yeah.
Great.
Well, I think it, it earns it.
Rob: Yeah.
Kevin: All right.
Well, I missed saying it, Rob.
Until next week, I'll see you around the
Rob: Cannot wait until we go into another adventure.