Transform Your Teaching

We’re at the midway point of the semester, so let’s take some time to discuss Rob’s class. Have the students kept up with Rob’s academic prowess? How is Rob engaging with students and implementing things discussed across this series? What does he have planned to continue meeting students’ needs? Join Dr. Rob McDole and Jared Pyles as Rob reflects on the class thus far.

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What is Transform Your Teaching?

The Transform your Teaching podcast is a service of the Center for Teaching and Learning at Cedarville University in Cedarville, Ohio. Join Dr. Rob McDole and Dr. Jared Pyles as they seek to inspire higher education faculty to adopt innovative teaching and learning practices.

Jared:

Hello, Transform Your Teaching listeners. It's Jared. Whether you are new to the podcast or have been around since day one, we want to hear from you. Please take a minute and fill out our quick survey and help us make the podcast even better. Click the link in our description.

Jared:

We'd be very grateful if you did. And for participating, you'll be put into a drawing for a handcrafted transform your teaching mug. And we're doing a drawing in the month of October, November, and December. So be sure to participate and help us out. We'd be grateful if you did.

Jared:

And as always, thanks for listening.

Narrator:

This is the Transform Your Teaching Podcast. The Transform Your Teaching Podcast is a service of the Center for Teaching and Learning at Cedarville University in Cedarville, Ohio.

Jared:

Welcome back to the Transform Your Teaching podcast on the campus of Cedarville University in Cedarville, Ohio. My name is Jared Pyles, and with me is Dr. Rob McDole.

Rob:

Great to be here.

Jared:

Good to see you, sir.

Rob:

Yes.

Jared:

We have a survey, and the survey is to help us improve the podcast. And we would really appreciate it if you would take that survey because it'll help us improve. We're considering some different cool things behind the scenes. I don't if you remember, when we had Lauren on, Lauren was teasing at some stuff we wanted to do, and, we want to do that. We wanna hear from you to make sure it serves you best and meet your needs.

Jared:

So please take our survey. It is in the description of this episode and in all episodes in this series we're doing on Understanding the New College Student. That's also my segue into what we're talking about in this episode, which is Understanding the New College Student. We've had guests on, but we're gonna pause on the new content that we are sharing with you. And we're gonna give Doctor.

Jared:

McDowell a chance to reflect on his class. We mentioned this at the start of this series. And when this episode is just us to, when we record this, we're about midway through the semester Mhmm. I believe. And we've talked about you incorporating some of the things that you've learned during this series and stuff that we've shared and learned together.

Jared:

So here's your opportunity, sir. I wanna this is off the cuff. I just wanna hear how the course has been going and I'll ask some questions as I go through.

Rob:

I have been enjoying myself.

Jared:

Remind our listeners again the course that you are teaching.

Rob:

I am teaching business ethics. Okay. Yes. And since we're at Cedarville, I definitely have you know, my approach is is much more centered in assumption where we start, and I start with the word of God. K.

Rob:

So that's my starting point. And so everything is pulled back to Revelation, and we talk about philosophy as a general category and area and how it how it feeds into our ethics, specifically business ethics. So what you choose to believe in terms of your metaphysics and your epistemology and your axiology Mhmm. Will dictate that part of axiology called ethics, especially when it comes to your business practices. So what the students are doing is they are building their own personal biblical business ethics framework.

Rob:

Okay. So we started that day one, so they're already they're gonna be doing their second draft of that document come this week, the end of this week. Okay. And it will go through their metaphysics, what they what they're choosing. Also, integrate their biblical theme, so they they need to choose that.

Rob:

Like, what drives you in terms of an overall scriptural theme? So, like for me, Matthew twenty two thirty seven through 40, love the Lord your God with all your heart, soul, and your mind. Mhmm. Second commandment is like it, love your neighbor as yourself. All the law and the prophets hang on those two commands.

Rob:

So that's that's kind of like an overarching theme for me personally, and that drives a lot about how I look at everything else that I do, or at least I try to. K. Bring it back and evaluate.

Jared:

Gotcha.

Rob:

So it encompasses metaphysics, cosmology, theology, anthropology, ontology. It encompasses epistemology. How do we know what's real and what are the sources of knowledge? So we go through those kinds of things as well. We're almost done with that.

Rob:

We're actually on axiology right now and what's a value. And so we're talking about based on all these other things, like how we know and what we know about God and what we choose in those things in terms of what scripture has to say about all of those things, because again, that's where we start, then we apply that and we're gonna start in probably about the next two weeks, we're gonna really start looking hard at bringing folks in from the business world Mhmm. Who I'm happened to be connected with, one of which was your wife.

Jared:

That is correct.

Rob:

And they will give real life stories

Jared:

Mhmm.

Rob:

That the students will need to respond to ethical dilemmas. Mhmm. You know, what's the right thing to do here? And they'll need to apply their biblical framework. But not only that, they're gonna have to also incorporate their own ethical standards from their particular area, whether it be accounting, finance, you know, like the SEC, marketing.

Rob:

Mhmm. So there's all these different standards bodies out there, and there's overarching standards and whatnot in terms of ethics behaviors that you must do.

Jared:

You mentioned revelation. I want you to go back and unpack that a bit. Tell us revelation and tell us why revelation exactly.

Rob:

So Revelation is a source of knowledge, and people are gonna come down on this differently who are listening. I I get it, especially if you're not if you don't start with Scripture. Mhmm. Scripture tells us that God is the source of all things, that he's the creator of all things, and he spoke the world into existence. From that perspective, he then is the only source of truth because he is the creator.

Rob:

So he is the truth. We as believers, especially with the New Testament and and with Jesus, see him as the way, the truth,

Jared:

and the

Rob:

life because he is the basis for all things and all things hold together through him, you know, from John chapter one. So from that perspective, things that we don't know about the world, whether it be cosmological, whether it be anthropological, like who am I? Why do I exist? What's my point in this life? How do I interact with the world that I see?

Rob:

How did it come into existence? What's it about? What's it mean to actually exist?

Jared:

Mhmm.

Rob:

That's ontology. Right? Mhmm. And then how do I know all these things? Well, you don't know it just from experience.

Rob:

That's just not possible to know something outside of time. Mhmm. Because God created that. He created time, and so he's the only one that really knows. Mhmm.

Rob:

So the only way we can know is if it's revealed to us or shown to us. Right? Mhmm. So that is has to be for me, and I think for anyone else, the ultimate definer of truth. Not it's not the only one, but it's the most important one.

Jared:

Sure.

Rob:

In the sense that it filters everything.

Jared:

Mhmm.

Rob:

So we would also say the senses or reason, you know, things that I can touch, feel, I can test, I can validate. Like, if I throw a ball up in the air, it will come back down. Mhmm. 100 out of a 100 times. Right?

Rob:

So I can say by reason and by empirical evidence that something exists that brings the ball back down to my hand when I throw it.

Jared:

Gotcha.

Rob:

We call that gravity. Right. Right? So that's, know, that's what we can see in in the world that God created. So that's evident to all people.

Rob:

We can all see the same things. Others would be intuition. Like, I just have this sense. Right? So that's one thing that everybody's had a hard time with when they talk about especially in education, we get into this in education.

Rob:

Right?

Jared:

Right.

Rob:

Nature versus nurture, that that whole thing. You know, why is it that babies turn their heads when you touch their cheek right after they're born? Well, it's because they're already they already have within them the things they need to survive and and know how to turn their head. Right, immediately. It's just a reaction.

Rob:

Yeah. So it's there. They didn't have to be taught how to do that. They didn't have to be taught how to cry when they're hungry.

Jared:

Right.

Rob:

So all those things, other sources, authority, people who've gone before, right, Who hopefully know better than you. Yeah. You know, and who are looking out for your best interests. And and so you have those things, those sources, and it's it's a hierarchy. You've got everything we have, intuition, general revelation or what's in creation, reason, and then authorities, those those that you might trust, a friend or something like that who seems to know something.

Rob:

And you can trust what they have to say. It's kind of a shortcut.

Jared:

So two sections, back to back in the morning. Yes. Is there a difference between the two sections that you've noticed as far as needs or as far as you mentioned that, you know, revelation is kind of a hard thing for them to grasp. Is there other other things like that that you'd notice a difference between the two sections?

Rob:

No. And I I would have to say they're doing a much better job with that now.

Jared:

Oh, good.

Rob:

Yeah. Yeah. I know I had mentioned that early on. Like, it seemed like I was asking them to shoot the moon. But now, I think just through repetition and me just pushing them back to it Mhmm.

Rob:

They're starting to ask questions of themselves, and I'm starting to see it in their reflection, the reflection pieces that they do. Because every two weeks, they have to choose a truth that they hear from class or from the readings, and then respond to that with just seven sentences. Mhmm. And the reason why seven sentences, it makes them focus down on one, what is the truth? Two, why did it why did it resonate with you?

Rob:

And then three, how are you going to apply it? So I found that less is more. Right? I can actually make you work harder by asking

Jared:

you to do It's true.

Rob:

Smaller things.

Jared:

It's true.

Rob:

And so it's been pretty cool to watch that development in them. You know, watch how they're when I first had the first reflection and now where they're at. Because I give them feedback on the, you know, what they say, and then I also talk to them I talk to them in class.

Jared:

That's very admirable of you that you spend a lot of time giving feedback. I do. Do you see a payoff of that? I've had a lot of them interact with

Rob:

me on it. I was surprised. Okay. I've taught other things and this one, whatever reason, the students seem to be responding more to my feedback. Oh, wow.

Rob:

Then, say, like, I've taught software tools. I've taught systems analysis.

Jared:

I wonder if it's the subject matter.

Rob:

I think it may be because it hits deep. Right? It hits deep to who they are because they have to start reflecting on choices that they've made or behaviors that they have Yeah. And how it lines up with what they're reading or what what what they're thinking about. Interestingly enough, love, the definition of love was in one of their readings by doctor McQuilkin and and Paul Coppan and his in their book on intro to biblical ethics.

Rob:

They do a really good job of of defining love as the basis for an ethical life. And it really caused a lot of them to think, and I was very surprised by that.

Jared:

Probably because of the it's subjective and less objective, like you mentioned, software tools and stuff like that. That's pretty much a cut and dry. This is right. This is wrong. Yeah.

Jared:

Where in this one, it's it's nebulous. It's gray, and it requires them to think, like you said, and it kind of taps into that what you really think. Probably a lot of stuff they haven't thought about before Yeah.

Rob:

The number of them that said that they had never thought of love as defined, one, by who God is and two, that it's not a feeling that you can still love and not necessarily have this feeling. And that sacrificial love means doing things that you really don't like and how that really impacted them. They're like, oh my goodness. And I I was just kinda blown away by that, that I wasn't expecting that.

Jared:

Yeah. The fact that you're getting responses because of the time that they see that you care through the feedback that you're giving them, too.

Rob:

I hope so.

Jared:

Yeah, I think that's part of it. I think if you were just giving cut and dry rehashed or repurposed or prefabricated responses, like, I good don't know about this, but it sounds like And I'll be honest with you, when you told me at the beginning of the semester when I saw you leaving that feedback, I thought, this is gonna be done in, like, three weeks. He's gonna he's gonna abandon ship. But you've made it this far. I think it's great.

Rob:

I enjoy it. I think that's the other thing too, is I do enjoy it. It's been a joy to interact with them. Broken my heart in some some ways because I see some of the struggles, you know, and and I think I think about what they're facing. I think about what they're gonna go out to into the world and and how are they gonna face it.

Rob:

And just trying to help prepare them for that. You know, drive them deep into into scripture as a basis for everything and don't take everything at at face value. Dig. You know? Yeah.

Rob:

Don't just don't just assume. What do you mean by that? Mhmm. As you've heard me say.

Jared:

I've heard you say that a lot.

Rob:

Yeah. You used that word, but I don't think it means what you think it means.

Jared:

I think you need to I'm glad you're letting other people experience that phrase and not just us in the office. Is there anything you've used from the series you've done thus far that it's kind of helped to meet the needs of those students? You know, have you or have you faced any, issues with anxiety or

Rob:

Yes.

Jared:

Depression, stuff like that?

Rob:

Yes. Have.

Jared:

I know you mentioned a bit when you had Jeremy Oliver on.

Rob:

But Yeah. I I did. I faced a couple, actually.

Jared:

How was that? How hard was that? I wasn't shocked. And

Rob:

instead of condemnation, I was able to provide them with, I believe, empathy. I said, I'm sorry that you're going through that. And then my response helped engender, I think, at least with one, because they actually showed up in my office. I've actually had a couple show up in my office and was able to help step them through. Right?

Rob:

Well, how can we do you wanna do better? And the answer was yes. And so, you know, I said to one individual, like, okay. Well, let's find something small. Let's find something small that you can do and accomplish and be successful at and start building this habit in your life.

Rob:

And so we talked for probably thirty, forty five minutes on getting to the bottom of what that individual could do to make sure that they were able to succeed in this issue that they were having. And they succeeded. Wow. You know? And that's only been once.

Rob:

Sure. Gotta keep building it. Right? And that's that's what I tried to help him do is just keep building on that and and move forward and be successful. So, yeah, I think what doctor Wood had to say, what Nancy had to say, like, I've been talking about that with my wife.

Rob:

You know, the whole

Jared:

Cell phone.

Rob:

Cell phone thing. I was like, oh my word. You know? And literally that weekend, I got caught. I got caught in one of those.

Rob:

I think I told you about that. I got caught in the reels. Right?

Jared:

Yeah. Doomscrolling.

Rob:

Doomscrolling. I yeah. You told me what that meant. I didn't even know. Yeah.

Rob:

I'm like, no wonder everybody's, like, anxious. Yeah. They don't know what truth is. And anytime you pull somebody away from truth and you pull them from away from what's real and they don't know which end is up because they don't know what's real

Jared:

Mhmm.

Rob:

And they start looking to something, whether it's on their phone or whatever, and that's their source of truth, oh my word. That's that's frenetic. So

Jared:

What's next? So you're talking about, like, this is the midpoint. You've got they're building this giant paper or this framework that you're talking about. Going to the second half, this is now applying the framework, right?

Rob:

Mhmm.

Jared:

Yes. So how does the feedback change?

Rob:

So they're gonna have to identify stories that they want to address. Okay. So case studies, essentially. Scenarios that they're gonna need to address. And so I'm gonna make them choose three

Jared:

Mhmm.

Rob:

And then work their their biblical ethical framework out in it, identify it, you know, here's basically, here's the case study, here's what I would do, and here's why. And they're gonna need to reference their their personal framework. Mhmm. And they're gonna you know, as part of that, also, any kind of of standards that are in their industry. So so accounting folks will need to find, you know, that's that's where I'm sitting with it right now.

Jared:

Mhmm.

Rob:

It might be less than three. I may wanna just I'm I'm also toying with the fact of just doing one. So I'm gonna start with one. Hopefully, by draft five, because I've got them doing six drafts. Hopefully, by draft five, I'll be able to tell whether they were able to you know, because I don't wanna make them climb a massive mountain if I don't if it's not necessary.

Jared:

Sure. Yeah. If they're able to answer well enough with one Yes.

Rob:

They'll need more than that. Then I'm satisfied.

Jared:

Yeah.

Rob:

Right? But if I see that we need to just go through this again, because it's again about repetition. You know, letting them hear, letting them keep going back to, you know, their underlying framework, their assumptions

Jared:

Mhmm.

Rob:

Testing against that. Also, asking others. Right? What did you do? Or what would you do?

Rob:

So

Jared:

Well, we'll have to do this again when the semester wraps up. That's gonna do it for us on the Transform Your Teaching podcast. Be sure to like and subscribe on your favorite podcast platform. Fill out our survey. It is in description of this episode and in all the description of the episodes for this series.

Jared:

And be sure to follow us on LinkedIn. The information for that is also in our show description. Thanks so much for listening.