Chris, super excited to have you on the show today.
Thank you again for carving out some time in your schedule and sharing your wild journey of entrepreneurship, ups and downs, and kind of this ride that we call life.
Before we dive into some of the experiences that you've had in growing your business and growing your team.
I'd love to learn and give our listeners a little bit of insight into who you are and some of the experiences that have shaped the person that you are today and the business leader
that you are today.
Okay, appreciate you having me on the show.
Thank you very much for your time.
This is great.
So let's start.
What prompted you to start a business?
Where did you start and why did you start it?
Heavy.
Okay, so that's a great question.
Let's say that I started it, truth be told, out of I had no other opportunity except for to just jump in and learn how to run my own business.
I'm somebody who's what's known as I call it un-Igimicated.
I'm that grade 10 dropout that, you know, my future and there's nothing wrong with this was supposed to be running restaurants.
So when I dropped out of high school at grade 10, my parents who are very educated, who had great careers, were very career minded and job orientated, just let me know that if I
was not gonna go to finish high school, I'm not gonna get my post-secondary education that I had a future in restaurants.
So I was actually very fortunate and very blessed to work at McDonald's restaurants for about seven years.
Started as a crew person, worked my way up, became a restaurant manager.
and really learned what it took to work in a fast paced environment because believe it or not, working at McDonald's is fricking difficult.
That is not an easy job.
You learn really quickly how to have thick skin when you're a 17 year old kid and you have a lady screaming at you like you just kicked her dog because her french fries are cold.
You learn that thick skin because you have to give her the smile, right?
So.
It was a great experience going from that and then learning what it takes to put in those 40, 50, 60 hour work weeks and to run a team and then to run a restaurant and build a
business that's already there, successful as McDonald's.
But then you've got to be a young adult at 19, 20, 21 years old managing 15, 16, 17 year olds who are getting yelled at by people for cold French fries.
It teaches you a lot of life skills.
So I'm very thankful for that.
never want to speak down to, that experience that I had there, but it quickly realized when I was working so hard, I realized that I wish I could work hard for myself.
If I was able to put this type of effort in to running a business for somebody else who was my franchise, my franchise, you were at the time who's a great person, but I watched
him working minimal hours.
doing the things that I wanted to do while I did all of the elbow grace.
So it really motivated me to start my own business, which had a pulled me into sales, to be honest with you.
I left McDonald's abruptly.
found a straight commission sales job and I failed greatly at it.
It was an outside sales gig.
ran around selling
pictures door to door, framed pictures door to door.
And I was really bad at it for a long period of time, but I was motivated by the people who succeeded at it.
And I saw the, the commissions and the monies that they were earning.
So I won't bore you with those details, but based upon the fact that I was going personally bankrupt, I had no choice, but to learn how to, how to sell.
And it really helped me just to get out of my comfort zone.
So I broke out of that sales slump that I was in.
I learned how to sell.
And once I learned how to sell, then I already had my experience from McDonald's restaurant, which was teaching and training others people.
So I learned that in sales, when you teach and train other people to also sell, there's an opportunity to be a very good sales manager.
So I just kind of learned how that was.
From there, if you want me to go to my next quick chapter, it really took me into learning to import goods from overseas.
So I understood the basic math, even though was a high school dropout, is if you buy something for a dollar and you sell it for five that you're making four.
I didn't need a whole bunch of education to figure that one out.
So I did just that.
I ended up eventually
importing goods from overseas.
I sold kids books and calculators on the street corner of Toronto, 12 months out of the year and did that, learned how to do that, did that myself.
And then I taught and trained other people to do that.
And in about 18 months of selling kids books and calculators on the street corner, I ended up having 300 sales reps.
from every major city from Toronto through to Victoria and offices in between of people who sold the kids books and calculators on the street corners for me.
So it was an interesting transition in my life.
McDonald's, selling pictures, not being very good at it.
And then into that world of having the 300 sales reps.
So I was great.
It was an incredible experience, but
I learned a lot there because I was very young, was very dumb, I was very naive, I was making too much money, I was arrogant, and I ended up losing it all.
Yes, yes.
I wish it was a valley.
I would call it more of a cliff than I fell off of.
Yeah, yeah, cliff, you know.
I had the house and the three cars and the beamer and the Benz and the Jeep and you know, and then ended up because I based myself at a Western Canada in that business and ended up
when I fell off the cliff renting a one-way U-Haul with my life in the back driving to my sister's house in Northern Ontario, knocking on her door saying, can I live with you?
And she said, well, I only have an unfinished basement, but you can stay there if you'd like.
So I did that.
I did that and went and got a job and I did what my parents told me to do.
I got a job in the recruiting industry.
So I was a headhunter for a little while and somebody tattooed on my forehead that I was worth a salary and I'm okay, this is it.
I tried everything else and it was fun and I failed.
So this is what I'm gonna do now.
So they caged the animal, had a gasket cubicle and I sold people to jobs.
then, Sidney's very honest with you and I'm talking a lot, like this is a huge monologue by the way.
So when I was that cagey animal selling people, I met my wife.
I met my wife.
And I was selling people, let me just understand, selling people into their jobs, okay?
what you meant.
Okay, good.
I met my wife and this is about 2007.
I my wife, she was working at a car dealership.
I already told you what I was doing.
She was in the service advisory and like hopefully any great man will admit she was, she ignited that fire in me once again.
She learned who I was, she learned the experiences that I went through, she saw the potential that I had and she kicked my ass.
And she said, you're going to do it again.
And this time the difference is going to be, I'm going to have her with me and I'm to do it properly this time.
And, and we did, we absolutely did.
So it was a calculated move.
didn't happen overnight.
She had her career.
I had my job.
and, and from there we started what is now the Mark group.
we're very fortunate and very blessed that we currently have.
over 50 employees.
We're in three offices throughout Canada and we have an office in the United States.
And we've now been in business since 2012.
And very fortunate because all those life experiences that I had before, as you call them, the valleys and the successes really translate into how our company is moving forward now.
Wow.
I mean, you couldn't, you couldn't script that if you tried.
You have had a number of experiences and I think that everybody listening can relate to some part of your journey.
It's, you know, everybody feels like they're their island, they're alone, they're experiencing the highs and the lows and the learnings.
But knowing that you went through all this and look at what you've built and look at the ways that you've
you've, as you said, failed, learned from it, got back up, found something else.
It sounds like you were very quick to act to, okay, get back up, brush myself off.
What's next?
Before we move on to my next question for you, I have one very important question that I've been dying to know.
Why children's books and calculators?
Hahaha!
I use that as an expression because yes, it was definitely children's books and calculators, but it was everything in between.
It was small sporting goods.
was office supplies.
It was watches.
was anything that I could buy for a buck, two or five or seven, and I could sell it for five, 10 or 20 or sometimes 40.
But that was a very good question.
Yeah.
Thanks.
that is a skill, right?
And you went out and you learned those skills.
So as you said, you started in sales, well, restarted in sales when you went out and you were selling the pictures and you realized you weren't good at it.
weren't great at it, and so you changed that, you developed the skills, you learned the skills.
What was influential for that learning, in that learning I should say, for you?
Was it a person, was it a course, was it, what resources did you pull on in order to get better?
Yeah.
Survival.
Survival and fear of failure was huge for me.
like I alluded to, I was literally on the verge of bankruptcy.
I was addicted.
I had vehicle repossessed.
So things were not going well.
And sometimes I feel, even today, but especially at that time, I had to take my own temperature.
And I had to realize that me laying blame on other people.
and making excuses for my own failure was on me.
It wasn't on anybody else.
It wasn't on what I was selling, where I was selling.
It was all on me not doing what I was taught to do and just getting off my ass and executing it and stop being fricking afraid because to be honest with you, I was just so
fearful.
At the very beginning, I was so afraid that I was interrupting or disrupting or that someone would say no to me or
my goodness, like I hurt my feelings and no, no, none of that matters.
Absolutely none of that matters.
So I really just got to the point where I kicked my own ass and I'll tell you there was, there's a side note to that.
So while I was, this all happened while I was selling the pictures, there was a tragedy in the company that I worked for, which I won't get into, but there was a tragedy that didn't
include me, but it was somebody else in that company.
that I had never met.
And the owner of that company said, due to this tragedy, what we're going to do is we're going to donate $5 off every picture that sold to this family and this tragedy for this
week.
And that hit me.
That hit me hard.
And normally in that industry, just to bore you with this for a second longer, selling 50 pictures in a week was a big deal.
And the company record, I remember this, was 61 pictures in a week.
And I sucked, I was horrible.
But at that time when that owner was going to do that and did that for that family and that tragedy, I got off my ass, I got outside, I worked, I hustled, I pushed back, I broke
my fears, and I broke the company record and I sold 102 pictures that week.
And it was all because I wanted to help that family go through that tragedy.
And that's what motivated me.
So it's interesting that you ask that.
But finding motivation.
and breaking down your own fears was absolutely a catalyst in me pushing forward and realizing that you can be great at anything if you just choose to do it.
If absolutely choose to do it.
Wow.
I am, I just got goosebumps.
I think that's phenomenal.
And you know, it's funny because we're obviously at the Vendor Group in the business of training and developing and a lot of our clients say, how do we motivate our management
team, our middle managers?
And you know, what can we do?
What can we throw at them?
What are things that we can say?
It's like, you have to, you have to assess each individual, right?
That motivated you to go out and help someone else.
What motivated you might not have motivated everybody else on your team.
And so in knowing now that you have, you said 50 employees, give or take, how do you motivate them internally every single day?
What's that culture?
What sets you apart and what makes them want to show up every single day?
Because what you have is enthusiasm and passion and something that I think...
despite all of your learnings, sounds like it's also very innate to you, that motivation, that drive, and that ambition.
For others, it might not be.
So what do do to motivate your team?
Well, I gotta tell you, jobs suck.
Yeah.
Jobs absolutely suck.
I think knowing that and then offering people jobs, but knowing that jobs suck because jobs are typically just over broke.
That's what, that's my acronym for a job.
It's just over broke.
So it's kind of true.
It's kind of true.
And then working for a boss, everybody hates bosses because well, we all know what bosses are.
They're double SOBs backwards.
So if I can help people with the just over broke and getting rid of the double SOBs backwards and not be arrogant and not wave my finger at them, we're all on the same level
here.
It doesn't matter if I'm the founder, the president, the vice president, the CEO.
I answered the phone up front because I'm the janitor and I'll tell people that.
Like we are all on the same level and I often go to the people that I work with.
And I ask them for help because I'm far from perfect.
I'm far from great.
I just have a different skill set than they do.
And I can identify other people's skill sets and I want to learn off them.
So I think to answer your question directly, another thing that we really hone in on is recognition.
Because yes, just over broke people want and need, especially in today's environment, they need financial wherewithal.
we pride ourselves, my wife and I, to
Yes, build a profitable business, but we're not greedy.
We're not greedy.
And if we can ensure that our staff are really making a strong income to support their family, that means the world to us.
And then giving that recognition when recognition is due and just working with people in a team environment that's fun, that's uplifting, that's bright, the tunes are cranked a
little bit more, the high fives are going on.
When there's an accomplishment, we got a big gong in each office that rings and everybody claps.
And we're just a big team environment.
And to the point where the most important fact in our business is team.
Of course, I won't attach names to it, but numerous times we've had to let go of our top producing salespeople.
Top.
Like close to a million dollars in revenue they'll bring in a year.
And we've had to let them go because they're way too arrogant, greedy, and they're cancerous, negative people.
And we try to work with them and we try to adjust their mindsets.
But if other people just don't get along with them, it's not worth it.
It's not worth it.
So I hope that answered your question.
It sure does.
You know, one, what do they say?
One bad apple can spoil the bunch and it creates, yeah, you can feel it in the air, right?
The tension, the mood, the energy changes.
And when that shifts and that's gone, it's amazing to see how the rest of your team corrects to, you know, to fill that space and to fill that void.
So that's amazing.
love that, you know, high fives are one of my favorite things.
So I love that you've got those going on and yeah.
We actually give hugs too.
What?
Yeah.
Come on.
Sign me up.
Are you hiring?
Next will be puppies.
Always.
Oh, wait, we have office dogs.
Come on, Kendra.
You got to come to a tour.
We have three here today.
I'm pretty sure there's three kicking around since they were puppies too.
So things like that make a world of a difference.
People are allowed to bring their pets to work.
is what keeps people away from work to begin with, right?
you know, my dog's sick.
I mean, obviously they wouldn't bring their sick dog to work, my dog, I don't like to leave it alone for so long.
have to go take it out.
Well, no, now your dog gets to be socialized.
I mean, I'm sure if I guarantee that everybody on your team likes dogs, you don't strike me as that, that we don't allow.
Exactly.
Perfect.
which actually is a perfect segue into one of the things that I am curious about with your team.
So you've spoken about how you keep your best people and recognizing that top performer versus attitude, we choose attitude 10 out of 10 times.
When you're searching for these people that are going to be stellar, that are going to gel with the culture, that are going to vibe and bring their dogs,
What do you look for?
Because I know that credentialing isn't everything, and I don't believe it should be.
So what do you look for, and what's your hiring process to get the best of the best?
So although we are in advertising and marketing, I teach this to our branch managers and to our HR that we are actually a recruiting business.
We never stop recruiting.
We always have ads.
We are always interviewing.
And that's because we are looking for the next great person.
And we make sure that it's, like you've already said, it's not just what's on a piece of paper.
It's not just what somebody typeset is.
It's when our HR calls and does a pre-screen on, I would have to say the majority of applicants, geographically, if they aren't close to the office, then we typically don't
call them.
But if they're geographically close, our HR will contact them and they're going to have a conversation.
And how does that person engage in the conversation?
Can you actually, and I know it's very cliche, but can you hear their smile over the phone?
at all.
Are they a great communicator?
that phone call fun?
Was there actually an impression that was positive left after you, after that call ended?
So those are the things from our pre-screen that then emulate over into the face-to-face interview.
Do we want to see, it would be great if they had some phone sales experience.
Sure.
Do we want to see?
that they've used Salesforce before and sure, do we notice that the university, fact, our university hires are typically got a different, I don't want to say better, but their
skillset is sometimes more honed for sure.
So we know that there's these other skills, but honestly, look you in the eye, smile, have a conversation, shake a hand, right?
Let's just see what your confidence is like.
Let's see what your goals are.
And then one more that is true.
We do really check references.
Our reference checks have to be spot on because we want to avoid that bad Apple who is just that bullshit artist that says whatever they got to say to get in because a lot of
salespeople are bullshit artists.
However, side story, one of our current reps who I would say is one of our top
echelon top earner with us, totally lied in his interview.
Absolutely, wholeheartedly lied and said all about his sales experience that he had and what he's done and where he's been, et cetera, et cetera.
And we're like, wow, this is great, super, all right.
And then we called and did his reference check and his reference checks like, no, he was actually laborer and blue collar and, and, and I was baffled.
So I called this guy back and he was just telling the story.
He's like, look, man, I just want to get in sales.
I just figured if I didn't, and I'm like, dude, you're so hired.
Like you have no idea how, I just love what you did and I love your passion.
And he's been with us now for well over a year and he's one of our top earners.
So you just sometimes have to meet with the person and get to know the person.
And I'm sure there was so much respect on the other side, on his side for you.
I mean, to think, to go into a job interview, and I love that, that story, I think it demonstrates perfectly where there's a miss in hiring these days.
That if you feel like you don't have the skills, you do have the skills, but you don't have the experience or the piece of paper that, that accurately, again, on paper
demonstrates those skills.
And
telling a little white lie to get in the door to have that conversation.
That tells me that we have a serious hiring problem just in society.
What you are saying is if somebody can walk in, they can make a great impression because of the person they are, how confident they are, which is ultimately what your clients will
experience.
So that's also a great test.
Then why shouldn't they have a chance?
You can learn Salesforce.
They have tutorials, right?
Those are all things that you can learn.
What you can't learn is that warmth, that human connection.
You can train it.
So I think that's really interesting.
And I love your approach to hiring.
It's the human element, right?
Yeah, it's fantastic.
And I would imagine that it keeps people around for a while too.
Hey, look, we're a small business.
We're in sales.
We're very fortunate that, I'll be honest, our turnover is within the first three months.
Absolutely sucks.
I wish I could crack the code on that.
You hire someone, you think that the next this, that, and what have you, and then all of a sudden, gone, it happens.
But after the three months, oh yeah, out of our 50 staff, are, I've got one guy who's been with us since month one.
Many people since year one.
So we're very fortunate to have a very strong nucleus of individuals.
And one other thing too, here's one more thing on hiring.
And this has been hard for me, but this is a tip that I learned and it's not hard for me.
How people who are smarter than you?
I surround myself with people who are smarter than me.
And I'm so thankful for that.
And I find that there's so many people that run businesses or departments that want to be the smart person and that they hold people down and it just doesn't do them very well.
So just a, just a tip to some people.
If you're the smartest person in the room, what do they say?
You're in the wrong room.
It's true.
Right?
Get out, go somewhere else because that's, that's just ego talking at the end of the day.
Oh, amazing.
And Chris, so you've now you have a team.
that does some of the work, but you still answer calls at the front, you pet the dogs, you see the team, you do all the things.
For you currently, what does your day look like as, as, you know, as head of the company?
A lot of follow-up, a lot of delegation and a lot of opportunity to create new ventures, which is what I love doing.
here at the Mark Group, have our core business, which we're very fortunate for, which is selling advertising on the reusable shopping bags.
And we're now becoming experts in web development and SEO and our traditional marketing.
But my job is to figure out what's next.
So nobody else out there
spells advertising on reusable shopping bags.
Well, the next things that we're doing, nobody else does either.
So I get to sit back and, then be the creator.
But I understand this.
There's been a lot of things that I've created that have, I don't want to talk about it because I didn't do very well at all.
But, like we're going to, we just keep, we're going to keep trying.
We're going to keep going for it.
We're going to keep working on it to find the next great thing.
wow on the same facet.
We're far from perfect at what we do with our core business.
My wife is wonderful in the operations side.
We're just tightening up and we're becoming better, bigger, and stronger in that area too.
So that's what my day really involves.
And I have to say the nice thing too is now that we're at this position in our business, I've got a little bit of freedom.
So I've been able to in the morning, just I got two kids, two teenage kids, really dropping my daughter off at school, grade eight every day, you that's a cool thing.
I have the opportunity to take care of my own health and wellness, get a little workout in the gym in the morning and then get into the office in the mid mornings.
And it's been nice, it's been good, great people.
The freedom that comes with entrepreneurship or the freedom that comes from doing what you love as well and eventually comes with.
Yes.
Eventually.
Yes.
comes with.
Because there was many times that I would come home when it was just me and my wonderful, talented, beautiful wife with babies, she would say, what did you sell today, honey?
At six o'clock in the evening when I've been out in the sales field knocking on doors since 8 a.m.
And I'd go nothing.
And she'd say, well, nothing doesn't pay the bills.
Get out there and sell more.
Yeah.
and then having to go back out in the...
so, yes.
But eventually, if you stick to your game plan and believe in yourself, there are some great rewards that can be had for sure.
you have some ideas that fail along the way that of course, you know, you need to.
Not everything's gonna be a home run and it shouldn't because you learn from it.
for you.
I'm trying to Yeah.
Final question.
let's go.
All right, I'm ready for it.
to anybody yet, so yours is very specific.
Think back to young Chris, who was working to make somebody else's franchise possible and successful, and you had said, I noticed that this person gets all these perks, and they
get to do this, that, and the other thing.
Why can't I do that for myself?
Thinking about that list of things that you admired that that person had on their docket every single day, how much of that do you get to do now?
What's come to fruition all these years later?
Okay, so great question, never been asked that before.
And I don't want this answer to sound arrogant because one thing that I also try to do is I try, I'm just, not a fan of arrogant people.
I'm not a fan of, what I got.
You don't have this, but I have it.
look at my car.
Look at my, I'm not a flash and dash guy.
But to answer your question.
That individual would golf often.
So do I.
That individual would come in and then take off and go to his cottage.
So do I.
That individual will get to take vacations with his family while I house sit for him.
So do I.
So there's many parallels that have now been achieved due to that thought process in 1997 dating myself.
Sorry.
Yes.
Just a few years.
Just around the corner.
Yes.
Thank you for that.
just want to congratulate you on the journey.
You have worked damn hard to get here.
And to me, what I'm hearing isn't the material things, but you've created freedom for yourself, like you just said, right?
You've got the freedom to take care of yourself, to spend time with your family, to do the things that you love, whether that's golf, which I'm very happy to hear, going to the
cottage, driving your daughter to school.
So you've created freedom at the end of the day.
Yeah.
And in my closing to Kendra, one thing that has really motivated my wife and I in building this business, and it might be the primary driving factor is when we get emails from a
single mother who's worked with us for years, who is uneducated and provides a six figure income for her and her daughter.
When we get our staff who come up to us and are so grateful because they get to take six weeks off and go to Mexico with their family because of the income that they've earned and
they have the freedom to travel.
And there's a lot of stories that we are very fortunate to have people that work with us, not for us, they work with us.
And because of the effort that they put in, they get to enjoy freedoms, I'm telling you.
I'm a man of faith and I thank the Lord for those people and for them being able to accomplish that under this thing that we started but didn't create it because we created
it altogether.
that's my, if we're closing, that's my closing statement to people is do what you do for yourself, but equally if not more for others.
Brilliant, brilliant.
That's a perfect closing statement.
And I would love also just one more thing from you, if you can let people know where they can find you, where they can follow along with your journey, where they can learn more
about you.
Okay, another great question.
Well, we're the Mark Group, the T-H-E, Mark, M-A-R-C.
And there's not like a small little French guy running around here, Mark, just where did Mark come from?
Because you didn't ask and you should ask that.
It's an acronym for my family, Matthew, Anna, my wife, Rima, myself, Chris.
So that's where Mark, M-A-R-C came from.
So the Mark, M-A-R-C, group, Inc.
Inc.com.
That's our website.
You can check us out there.
I'm not.
Big on social media, I have it, but I don't like know my handles.
I guess when you run a marketing company, you're supposed to.
I don't Don't really know them, but they're there.
And we have a new venture that we're starting.
It's actually, I'm starting a hydrogen water bottle company.
It's called Vita, V-I-T-A.
So you can follow Vita, which is about to launch at the end of this month at Vita, V-I-T-A, is I-S, aqua.com.
It's an exciting product that we've been developing for the last six to eight months.
has nothing to do with the Mark group.
It's just my little side hustle.
So you can follow along there and yeah, way we go.
Thank you.
so much, Chris.
We'll make sure that we share both of those links so people can check out the new venture, which is very exciting.
I'm going to do that the second we hang up.
And also follow along with the Mark Group.
Again, thank you so much for sharing your time and wonderful energy with myself and with all of our listeners.
And I know it won't be the last time we chat.
Thank you, Kendra.
Appreciate your time.