Kasra Dash: So if I have a joinery business and I want a consistent flow of inquiries what do you recommend.
James Dooley: So the first thing I would be doing if I'm a joiner and I'm looking to grow my business then I would be looking to team up with a lead generation company. Over at FatRank.com they have a lot of different joiners throughout the UK working for us but we dig deeper into exactly where they make profit and I think that's the key in this because if someone's just wanting a joiner to do the roof joists the builder probably already teamed up and already probably got someone and worked with him previously, not really going searching online or checking social media to do that.
James Dooley: But there's been a massive boom in the UK for log cabins at the bottom of the garden, outbuildings where they put gyms and outdoor classrooms, they put anything. It could be used as a cinema room, outdoor saunas, and they're all timber huts basically, glorified sheds to a certain degree but a joiner is able to put this together and now with the type of wall cladding they're doing using the timber it looks incredible, really nice.
James Dooley: So there's so many different products now joiners are able to do that's bespoke and custom where they can charge good money and make good profits so basically if you are a joiner and you are looking for more leads head on over to FatRank.com, go to the contact page and see whether you qualify for the lead generation set there. The best part about it is it's performance based lead generation, you pay nothing upfront, you pay nothing for the leads, you only pay on converted jobs and you pay a finders fee out of your profits.
James Dooley: I would though recommend not just throwing all your eggs in one basket so there's other lead generation companies out there that people could use. Why is it important for people to also be looking at using other lead generation companies and what do you think they should be making certain they're doing because at least FatRank guarantees them a return on investment where some of these others they're paying per lead and it might not be exclusive leads. What do they need to make certain they're doing if they're looking to team up with two or three other lead generation companies.
Kasra Dash: What you want to be doing is tracking your KPIs so if for example you're spending five grand a month with a lead generation company you want to make certain how much profit that five grand is getting you or potentially is it a loss. Are you spending five grand but only getting fifteen hundred worth of new business because in that case you'd probably want to swap over to another way of generating inquiries.
Kasra Dash: So track the amount you're spending but also how many leads you're getting and also how many not just the quantity of leads but how many of those leads have actually turned into paying customers. That's another thing you should be tracking. But away from that what do you say about SEO. Do you think joinery businesses should be investing into SEO or do you think it's a waste of time.
James Dooley: SEO for joiners I think is very important. I think search engine optimisation is a lot more than what people realise because certain people are obsessed with looking at impressions and how much growth they have online and they're not looking at it from a reputation management point of view. SEO, if you can rank for awards that you've won or media of before and after photos of what you've done then that's amazing for a joiner company.
James Dooley: So yes I would be looking to one try and generate my own inquiries via my own joiner website and build up the presence but two making certain that the SEO company you're using is making you look better online. Making certain they're driving you to get more testimonials, more videos of jobs you've done that they can rank on YouTube and Google Videos, rank the images in Google Images. All these major plays will generate more in-house leads which is the holy grail of any business.
James Dooley: And number two is that if you are up against another company and you're going to build this log cabin at the bottom of the garden or whatever product you're doing, wall cladding or whatever, and you've got a 50-50 show against one of your competitors, who looks better online. You need to make certain you look good online. That positive sentiment online is key for converting jobs not just generating leads. SEO for me is a major play if you are looking to grow your business.
Kasra Dash: What's your thoughts then on paid ads. That's both Facebook ads, Instagram ads, YouTube ads and then PPC Google pay-per-click.
James Dooley: So Google pay-per-click can definitely be expensive. You can burn a lot of money quickly especially if you don't know what you're doing or if you partnered with an agency that isn't as experienced as they should be. A few things on that is if you are looking to do your own PPC or you want to go out to a PPC agency you should be checking for case studies. Similar to what your customers are looking for as well.
James Dooley: So if for example you do custom staircases you want case studies but if you're hiring a PPC agency you want to make certain they have case studies. Look at case studies, make certain that if you're doing it yourself you need the time but you need to set up a negative keyword list, make certain you're sorting out click fraud so your competitors aren't clicking your ads, and also make certain you're bidding for keywords that are most profitable.
James Dooley: Because if it's just a simple little door repair that might be a £40 or £50 job but you've actually paid £300 or £150 for that lead to Google so you want a list of services you provide that are highly profitable and go after those. That's PPC.
James Dooley: For social ads like Facebook or Instagram or YouTube I think joinery in some cases can be visual especially if you're doing wooden huts or houses. If you're doing that maybe set up a little camera when you're building the house and do a time lapse and upload that to Instagram, Facebook, YouTube. You can even run that as an ad and stuff like that works really well. You've got Pinterest and Google Images also.
Kasra Dash: For sure. If you've got an aesthetically pleasing log cabin someone might not understand they need it. It's not needing it, it's wanting it. So it's interruption marketing. They haven't gone out searching for a log cabin at the bottom of their garden, they've seen it and gone I want that gym, I want that home cinema at the bottom of my garden.
Kasra Dash: If you can do organic as well with videos people will go this guy does a really good job. Some joiners do amazing time lapse videos. I like watching them. I sit there thinking I can't believe he built that in three days, that's incredible. Or making furniture out of old pallets and you're like wow that was just old pallets and now it's furniture.
Kasra Dash: So yes I would do something like that as long as you're able to get the camera set up and you have the money to put into marketing. If I'm a joinery company looking to grow my two major plays would be short term lead generation and SEO to make certain I'm getting branding set up, generating leads plus knowing I can convert guaranteed ROI.
Kasra Dash: As I grow I can then look at other major players like Flickr, Pinterest, Instagram and others. But personally if I'm a joinery company looking to grow my two major plays would be lead generation and SEO.
Kasra Dash: So if you are looking to grow your joinery company make sure you're heading over to FatRank.com, fill in the details there to see whether you qualify. Don't throw all your eggs in one basket. Make certain you've got diversification of leads coming in on a consistent daily basis.