Jeff Bradbury: Hello everyone, and welcome to today's show.
You're listening to the EdTech Startup Podcast, part of the BE Podcast Network.
My name is Jeff Bradbury, and today we have an amazing story for you about an educator who decided to turn a dilemma into an opportunity.
And I think this story might resonate for so many of you out there who has ever found yourself in a classroom and wondered, how the heck did I get these students to be all in the same room?
At the same time, if that sounds like something you've ever said in your classroom, stick around.
We have a wonderful conversation for you today.
For more information about this podcast and others from the BE Podcast Network, please visit be podcast network.com where you can find great educational podcasts from educators just like yourself, featuring those, looking to make a difference in your classroom.
And make a real impact on the world around you.
My guest today is the co-founder and CEO of a fantastic company called Class Composer.
He is also an educator who knows how to get things done in the classroom.
I want to bring on today, Mr. Mike Croley.
Mike, how are you today?
Welcome to the podcast.
Mike Cronley: I'm doing well, Jeffrey, thanks for having me.
Jeff Bradbury: It is so great to have you.
So great to meet you.
You have an amazing story to share in the classroom for so many years.
Got an idea, and now you're out there trying to help and support teachers nationwide and worldwide.
First of all, before we get into all of that, talk to us a little bit about yourself.
Who is Mike Croley?
Mike Cronley: Um.
I am originally from Ohio.
Uh, born and raised.
I graduated from Ohio State.
Uh, I moved out to Colorado, uh, when I was in my twenties, uh, to be a ski bum and I never left.
Um, so, uh, have a great wife and family.
Um, our kids, two kids are in college.
Um, as you mentioned, I was a, um, third grade teacher for 12 years and transitioned out to.
Start class, composer.
Um, but I love, uh, the Colorado lifestyle, obviously since I chose to stay here.
Um, skiing and biking and camping.
So, um, and I can't forget, we have two standard poodles who are our, our new children.
Right.
Um, that we, so, um,
Jeff Bradbury: well, I. Entrepreneurs, entrepreneurs out there.
You were doing your thing and then something happened.
You had an idea and ran with it.
Take us back to that moment.
You said you were teaching third grade.
What was life like?
What was it like being a third grade teacher and what was it that had you come up with this concept for class Composer
Mike Cronley: taught for 12 years and.
I really loved it.
Looking back, um, you know, that alignment of what you're good at and the mission and serving kids and families like I, I felt like I was where I belonged.
Um, but the moment that planted the seed, and it really was a moment I was talking with our music teacher, Donna.
In the fall, you know, probably five or six weeks after school started, we were in the, you know, lunch break room and she just kind of casually mentioned that she taught one of her classes in the morning and these two boys were together in the same class.
And she was like, that was flagged and those kids should have been separated based on their behavior last year.
Almost at the same time we were, we said, wouldn't it be great if there's a software program that kind of would catch that or stop that silly air from being made?
And that was the start of class composing.
Jeff Bradbury: That was your aha moment.
Mike Cronley: It was for sure.
Jeff Bradbury: And talk to us a little bit about what Class Composer is, who is it for?
Who's it designed for?
Is it teacher based?
Is it district based?
Um, what can we find over@classcomposer.com?
Mike Cronley: So we're at our, at our Heart, we're a software program for the backend of, uh, an an administrative task that happens.
Specifically for elementary schools.
Um, so it's not, uh, teacher facing, um, oh, sorry.
It's not student facing.
Um, so it's an administrative tool and what it does is, you know, I think there's two value propositions, but the one I want to focus in on is the second one.
The first one is we, we streamline a laborious paper-based process.
Of deciding where to play students into classes in the elementary grades as they move up, you know, third to fourth, fourth to fifth, as the year ends, the new year begins.
Um, so it's just a time consuming, frustrating way to manage all this data about kids and ensuring they end up in equitable classes.
So that's our first value proposition.
But really what we're about and what drives me is the output of this inefficient process usually results in inequity.
And what happens is, as a teacher who's ever taught elementary, you know this and it's what you're trying to avoid.
And it's this idea of, I hope I get a class, a good class this year.
Before the year starts, because we've all been in a scenario where you didn't, and the distribution of kids that ended up in your class weren't, weren't equitable.
And the the key point is in the elementary world, there's no switching.
Typically.
Once that class is kind of written down and you start teaching day one, you know, they're based on their age.
You're trying to build this classroom culture, and they spend most of the day with you.
They'll go out for specials like, you know, music or art, but you know, all the instruction academically is typically done by you and you just can't say to a kid three weeks in to the school year like, oh gosh, Johnny, we, we kind of messed up and you shouldn't have been in this class.
And, and it's imbalanced, like, Johnny's like, well, you just.
I'm, I'm with my friends now and you taught me the routine.
You can't, you just can't take me out.
So those classes get locked in stone and that impacts the whole year.
Um, if there's behavior issues, too many challenging behavior students, too many low academic kids, too many high gifted and talented, where you can't meet their needs, um, as best as you would like to.
So there's all these different scenarios that come out of this.
Inequitable distribution, and that's really what we're about, is trying to make good, balanced, equitable classes across the grade level where teachers can be effective.
Students feel comfortable.
It's a good environment to be in for that whole year
Jeff Bradbury: when you're working with schools and school districts to make sure that all of their classes are equitable, equally balanced, as you mentioned.
What are some of the feedback that you're receiving?
From class composer, whether it be from teachers who are being supported by it, or administrators who are working with it, or building principals who are using it, what's the, uh, overall thoughts and compliments on it?
Mike Cronley: I think most of the feedback we get is it, it, it solves that first value proposition of, gosh, it saved us so much time.
Um, and, and that's the immediate, um, response when.
The customers start using us and there's always hesitancy, which is normal for teachers and administrators to start a new program because it's a risk.
It's a big risk because we've all been burned before with promises of efficiency and easy to use.
And onboarding and getting set up is easy, but in reality it's not.
Um, and we've worked really hard to make it simple.
Um, from step one, but they really, they really like the time savings and I, and I'm trying to promote more of, and, and it's almost inherent they know this.
Um, but ultimately it's the, the value proposition of getting equitable classes.
And we do get feedback and that's the ones I think I love to hear the most is the year started and the teachers say, yes, this was a great.
And we didn't have any challenging classes.
So to me, that's the ultimate feedback.
But to answer your question, I think most the time we hear that they just love the time saving and simplifying it.
Jeff Bradbury: Now, I would imagine that this saves school districts, uh, tons of hours putting things together.
Mike Cronley: Yes.
And, and it's, it's not just.
The, you know, it, it cuts across the board because teachers are involved in this process typically, where since they know the kids, they're the ones doing the data entry, writing it on paper cards, doing the shuffling to build classes for the grade level above them, that gets vetted and approved by the administrators.
So it cuts across the whole school.
The teachers save time and administrators save time.
Um, and, and the other part is, which is.
It's a little bit of the wild west sometimes, just from my experience at the school I taught at, even in an individual school, you could walk down the hallway and third grade is doing it this way, even though, you know, there's been some guidelines presented.
But in reality, when it's paper, like who knows what's happening.
So there's not really standardization at a grade level or even in a district of how the process is done.
So, um, and I am, I'm in the camp of.
I think teachers should have autonomy, and I think teachers are best when they're doing what they love and they, they're finding their voice as a teacher, but sometimes let's standardize some processes to make the outcome better across the school and across the district.
And I think we, we have a good story to tell in that regard.
Jeff Bradbury: Well let, let's talk a little bit about that story right there you are talking to your music teacher.
And you had an idea, was it right away you went home and started putting this together?
Did you sit on it?
Did you wait over the summertime?
Did you go talk to somebody to kinda get some feedback?
What was it like to make that decision?
And then I, I'd love to hear the story of actually saying to somebody else, or even saying to yourself, I'm going to leave the classroom and pursue this.
What was that like?
Mike Cronley: It, it, it evolved over time.
Um, so from the time of that conversation with Donna until I actually left the classroom, it was probably seven years and I, um, was teaching and like it really stuck in my brain.
Like it was very much an aha moment.
And it was one of those things I couldn't let go.
And every year.
I kind of was this outside observer a little bit.
I remember I have, I have these pictures I took of my, uh, co-teachers in my grade level.
I bugged the principals that, uh, are at my school and said, Hey, can I work on this and try to make it better?
We use paper like pink and blue cards primarily, and I was bugging 'em and like, Hey, let's try this and do this.
So it really became.
A side passion project.
And then, um, maybe three or four years later from that conversation with Donna, I was like, man, this, this really could make a difference.
And at that time I couldn't find any, um, other products out there searching on the internet.
So I was like, gosh, this is like a, like a wide open space here to innovate.
So then I started really spending time on the weekends.
More in the design phase, like how would it look, right?
How would, how would it actually be in the world of software?
And, you know, spent a lot of time on it and, gosh, so many iterations.
And then while I was teaching, I was trying to meet developers to partner with me and that was really challenging, very difficult, um, to do that while I was working full time.
But, um.
Yeah, it, it evolved over, over that time period.
And then to answer your last question, it's like, I think any entrepreneur who's kind of taken that leap, the pain of not doing it outweighs the pain of staying.
And it reached a point for me, I was just like, gosh, I, I just cannot let this go.
And I, I just believed in it so much and I was like, I, I gotta, I gotta give it a try.
So.
Jeff Bradbury: One has to ask the question, like, do you miss it?
Mike Cronley: Do you miss third grade?
I do.
And, and I, I loved being a teacher and I think there's moments I have in the classroom that I just, you just can't talk.
Right.
The experience of impacting kids and you hope you impacted them.
Jeff Bradbury: Mm-hmm.
Mike Cronley: Academic.
Um, but it, it was hard.
It's a hard job.
Right.
So, um.
We, where I live, there's an elementary school in our neighborhood where our kids went actually, you know, and there's times I'm driving by and I see the kids going in the classroom and it's just like, wow.
That's, it's, it's an amazing thing, right?
These kids are going into this building and there's a lot of people who care about them, love them, and are trying to help them, right?
Um, so I do miss it and I love the interaction with kids and I do miss that.
Um.
There's, there are the downsides of being a classroom teacher, which everybody knows, right?
It's not an easy thing every day.
So, um, but yes, I, I, I do miss uh, interacting with kids every day,
Jeff Bradbury: so I, I'm sure there's a lot of crossovers.
You know, I, I get the question too.
I, I, former music teacher now working in the technology field, right?
And people say, how did you go from teaching violin to teaching Google?
And I find there's a lot of similarities here.
I would imagine managing a group of third graders, which is herculean enough, is very similar to managing a software development company or a team of people who are putting together this.
You still know where you want to go, you gotta get there.
Sometimes it's baby steps.
Sometimes you can take that giant leap.
But what are some of those educational skills that you are finding are now leading or guiding you?
Your ability to create class composer?
Mike Cronley: Yeah, there's a lot.
Um, I think the,
the idea of how to start at step one and break things down, break things down really simply.
Really helped.
And like I I mentioned earlier, like we, we've spent a lot of time and I really cared about this, a great deal of how do you get started?
It's a brand new program.
How do you get started?
What's step one?
And is it, is it sequential?
Is it intuitive?
And I think that was beat into me by really great teachers I worked with and with administrators, how to deliver a good lesson, right?
You know, how do I start at step one?
How do I take it through to the end and seeing this picture evolve the whole lesson, right?
So I think that was one of the things that carried over, um, starting this project, is I really wanted it to be, um, intuitive and simple and very sequential in nature.
Um, to make it easy, you know, as, as much as I could.
I,
Jeff Bradbury: I, I love that answer.
And, and I ask this of a lot of entrepreneurs who used to be educators or are educators, and it's funny that you say that 'cause it's the same answer that I get from everybody.
Being a project manager is just like making a lesson plan.
Where am I?
Where am I going?
How am I gonna get there?
And what are the contingencies in case you go left and right on the conversation?
Right?
And one of the things that you always figure out is.
You're going to come to a place where you do have that aha moment.
You do have that spot where you're like, okay, this is gonna be all right.
This is gonna work.
So I gotta ask you here, as a educator turned business executive, what has been your biggest, teachable moment in this entire process of creating class composer
Mike Cronley: for other entrepreneurs?
Jeff Bradbury: Could be.
Mike Cronley: Okay.
Uh, I, I don't know if I have one.
Um,
this, there's a lot that goes into it.
Um, I think listening is really important, you know, in the early days for entrepreneurs, you know, listening to the customers, um, and it, it doesn't go away.
E even now, like we're, we're about to release a new.
You know, feature enhancement to our, our program.
And that all came from feedback.
And it's like, it's a never ending process.
You're always listening and it, and it's a, it's a mix, right?
You have to have this almost insane level of commitment.
Like, like there's a point where you're like, like this, this is like any outside person would be.
This is insane what you're doing because the risks are so high and the commitment is so high, and you are, you are just driven, right?
You're, you're just full speed ahead, you know, just going for it, right?
But on the other hand, you have to kind of have that listening part of it too.
You know, it's like you're sprinting full speed, but.
Somebody over your shoulder is saying, Hey, have you thought about this?
And you gotta listen to that, right?
And you might not change your course, but you gotta keep that open, right?
So it's a, it's a very much a, um, split brain type of thing.
Um, and I think there's a lot of entrepreneurs who are just, they're going for it and, but they're not listening to their customers and they're not iterating and they're not pivoting if they need to pivot.
They just keep going down their original idea and that, you know, is a recipe for, um, problems.
Right?
So, um, you know, there's a lot to learn, but that was the one that came to mind.
Um, when you asked me,
Jeff Bradbury: can you, can you think of any good advice that maybe another teacher entrepreneur gave you something that kind of kept you going and maybe something that has turned class composer into what it is today?
Mike Cronley: Yeah, I would, I would say, you know, that transition from being a teacher to being an entrepreneur and, you know, you, you have a dream, you have a vision, and you want to impact the world.
Can, what can you do as, as simply and as inexpensively to vet your idea?
Like, how can you, how can you test it?
At, at the smallest micro level to get validation feedback from your intended audience.
And I think from when I started till now, I think that has become a lot easier to do, um, to get that feedback or, or run a test, right?
To give validation.
Um, so I think that's something.
I would strongly, um, recommend is, you know, don't, don't take out a big chunk or try to do a big chunk.
Like can we just give it a little, go here and see what happens?
Right.
Um, and I think that is smart.
Going forward, even after you get it off the ground and it has some traction, keep thinking about that as your, as your, you know, litmus test is like, Hey, what can I do that's kind of small to test this out and not commit everything to it?
Um, because that, that's when things, it's hard to go back like a, it's like a, a door.
Like sometimes there's, there's decisions you're making and it's just like, it's a one way door.
And if you really commit everything.
To go through that one way door.
It's really hard to go back, you know, kind of thing and, and change, right?
So, you know, do a lot of testing inexpensively, simple, quickly as you can to get, hopefully the feedback from the user, the audience you're trying to hit, where they say, this is awesome.
Yes, I would pay for that, right?
Even though I don't see the whole flesh, that idea, like what you're showing me is.
Exciting, and I would pay for this if you built it out, type of thing, right.
So I,
Jeff Bradbury: I think that's some great advice.
You know, a lot of times entrepreneurs have this idea in their head and just as you said, they're going for it, but it's the audience that says, Nope, this is really what we want.
And sometimes it is difficult and sometimes it's, oh, of, of course, let's just, let's go do that.
And then they're successful over the time of building this.
What have you learned about yourself?
Because this is a journey that you decided to go on.
This is a journey that, that yes, you've got support from others in your support group and your family and, but what have you learned about yourself through this process?
Mike Cronley: Um,
I think, I think I learned, um, a lot about persistence and, um.
It is taken a long time, um, and still a journey I'm on and I didn't know.
This is one of the things you always hear about, you know, in the early days of advice, it's like, well, okay, like you think it's gonna take this much budget to get to this place starting out?
And it's like, well, you might as well double that and then you might as well double or triple the amount of time it's gonna take.
Like every entrepreneur was like, that's not gonna be me.
And of course it was me.
Right?
So I think that that doggedness and persistence is something that, um, I had to, I had to learn.
I had to like, I gotta stick with this longer than I wanted, wanted to as far as like my timeline of what I thought it would be at, at this moment didn't happen.
Right.
And I had to kind of hang in there.
And really stick with it.
And, you know, this brings up another idea.
It's like, you know, another kind of typical advice for startup founders is, do you really like your idea?
Because if you don't, and, and your mindset is over here, which is totally fine, right?
Like there, there is total validity and I want to do a startup to make money, right?
But.
If it takes a long time and you gotta live with it and you gotta do all this work in it over a long period of time, like is it something you're passionate about, is something that you, you could see yourself doing for a long time?
You know?
And that's another consideration of the idea, right?
So
Jeff Bradbury: sometime this year there's gonna be a third grade teacher.
Talking to their music teacher and sometime this year that third grade teacher's gonna have an idea to do something and try their hardest to get it out there.
What advice would you have for that third grade teacher this year?
Mike Cronley: I, I would say, uh, let's talk,
I would, I would love to talk with them, uh, on the phone and, or just even a video call and to reach out.
Um.
And I, I, I think the main thing is, you know, is it, is it something you believe in and it excites you and you're like, yeah, this is, this could be like, I'm energized by this.
Then just go inside your little circle and talk to your co-teachers and say, Hey, I got this idea.
What do you think?
Just, just start talking to people about it that you trust and are knowledgeable in that space of education and just, just see what they say, right?
Um, and then, and then at that point, if you're getting really good feedback and it's like, yes, I think this is pretty good, what can you do?
Get it to be real.
And, and it doesn't have to be real in the sense of it's actually built out.
Can you mock it up?
Can you do some prototypes?
Can you just make it, make it visual for someone to see this is what I'm gonna do.
Right?
And then, um, from there, you know, that, that kind of informs where you can go.
But you, you need to get validation, not just from you.
You have to touch base with other people to see if your idea holds water or not.
Right?
And, and if they get excited about it too, like you do,
Jeff Bradbury: where can we go to find more information about the great things over at Class Composer, Mike?
How do we get in touch with you?
How do we get in touch with the application?
If I, if I'm a building leader and I'm looking to work on my schedule, 'cause this is the time.
We're starting to think about next year already.
Where do we go and how can we do this?
Mike Cronley: Yes.
So we are, um, we're on the worldwide web, uh, class composer.com.
And, uh, I'm on LinkedIn, Mike Croley.
Um, so.
Both those ways are ways you can, you can reach out to us or me
Jeff Bradbury: and we're gonna make sure that we have the links to Class Composer and Mike's LinkedIn in everything over in our show notes.
And Mike, first of all, thank you so much for being on this show.
You have an amazing story, one that I think every educator out there listening probably has had once in their life.
Hey, there's gotta be a better way to do this.
Um, you know, we've all had those classes where.
How did they put this and this together?
How come I have this and somebody else has that?
And what do you do and what's the solution?
And so urge you guys to check out everything over@classcomposer.com.
It's an amazing little platform.
And Mike, thank you so much for helping out today and thank you for being on a guest on our show.
Mike Cronley: It was a pleasure, Jeffrey.
Thank you so much.
Jeff Bradbury: One more time.
We wanna say thank you so much to Mike Croley for coming on the show today.
For more information, head on over to class composer.com and that wraps up things over here on the EdTech Startup Podcast, part of the B Podcast network.
For more information, head on over to b podcast network.com where you can find great educational podcasts.
From educators just like you.
So on behalf of everybody here in the B Podcast Network, my name is Jeff Bradbury, reminding you to keep up the great work in your classrooms and continue sharing your passions with your students.