You know, it says John Hicks Jr. I would hate to see Senior because he's getting bigger than you are. Senior was a big man. Senior was a big man. His nickname was Big Red. Big Red. We got Big Red and Big John, my brother. Well, I think we've got an exciting topic today because, you know, there's a big myth out there and we've talked to some of the other coaching platforms out there that say, hey, look, you've got to qualify your agents and that's who you go after because if they don't have business to give to you, right, then is it worth your time to have that communication? And I think this show we're talking about, is that a yes or no, John? Do you think that's a myth or a fact? That is a myth, man. I felt like a stomping sound right there. Boom. Myth. Myth. Big time. So let's talk about that, man. So why is it a myth? Why is it a myth that we should not focus on newer agents? Well, I'll give you an example. I'm not I'm not one of the top producers in my market anymore. My world's changed and what I get to do every day for this business. But I can tell you the top producers in the mortgage world has shifted and changed. And I can tell you in my market here in Columbia, South Carolina, The faces that are the top producers now are not the same faces that were the top producers before or even during COVID. Just a different demographic, a different age group, a different mindset. Just brand new agents. And, you know, I had that mindset at one time. Devin was like, if you didn't close X or X, then I mean, I need to I need to market to someone that does. And then I'm looking at the loan officers get to work with these giants in our industry. Now, these real estate agents are killing me. And I'm like, they took a chance on them and I didn't. it's almost like they had a crystal ball they're like you know what i see the future and we've got not that all agents are in this category we've got some agents that got real complacent when it got really really easy and then you've got these newer folks that don't know any other market this is just the market that they were given and don't tell them that it can't be done and you know you you've got these law officers that saw that that that crystal ball future and said no no I'm going to go out there and I'm going to talk to these people. And now they're quartering the market because those agents have grown with them. And I think that's a little bit about what we want to talk about on the show is how do you have an agent that grows with you? What are you providing the new agent that's brand new to the market? Not only are we going to reach out and we're going to communicate with them, but we're going to provide them some value to help them grow. That's kind of the trends that I'm seeing, John. Is that what you're seeing in your market as well? Bro, you know, you can't be picking up the phone and calling anybody new or old unless you're bringing some type of value. But it is easier to bring value to someone that's new in the business. It is easier to get to know someone that is new in the business because you if you've been in the industry long enough, you can bring a wealth of knowledge. And you're automatically bringing value. And let's, let's be real here, man. Like it's, you know, the loan officers, I feel we get sometimes better training because you can have an agent that's not under the right, not under the right BIC or the BIC has a hundred agents and they're trying to field as much as they possibly can. So they don't get enough of that one-on-one. So there's a lot of agents out there right now that are kind of like wandering aimlessly looking for guidance in loan officers. We can provide guidance because, we're the ones that give you money for your, their clients to buy homes and they need to know as much as they possibly can. And we're the ones that do it for them. I mean, so education, one hundred percent is everything in this business, you know, advising and helping them. And that's how you bring the the the value. So I've got a good one for you. Okay. A story. I mean, cause I think stories tell everything. So I did, I did have a, I had a mindset shift three years ago where I did start saying, you know what I, to be honest with you, I started hating working with some of the agents that were big time because they had just had this windfall year. So all of a sudden their, their, their ego got so big. So I started working with, um, newer people saying, you know what, I want to help some of these new people get into the game that our real estate industry is so top heavy. So you kind of want to start helping build the base a little bit. Yeah. And but for instance, you know, you start working. I started working with this one agent, I don't know, two years ago, and she didn't know anything. I was able to help her find the right big, find the right company. and but not only was i telling her about mortgage products i was talking you know we kind of worked together to try to get her out there and and and do more and i mean get known I don't know, two years in the business and last year or the year before was the lowest amount of originations we've had since nineteen ninety four. But that girl closed fourteen units in two thousand twenty five. And I get to work with her. So that's all I invested in her. But, you know, that's all that the median age of realtors right now is like fifty five years old. So there's that, that kind of, that should like for loan officers, you gotta, so what's the average age for a first time home buyer right now? Yeah. It's not, it's not . So it's like, believe it or not, it is . But only of the agents right now are under . We kind of looked up some numbers. So if you look for those type of agents that are not the top heavy agents, they're the ones that are kind of up and coming in the business. They're bringing a plethora of buyers with them right now that aren't quite ready to buy a house. Yeah. And when they get to that average age of forty, boom, you want to be in that. You want to be there waiting. That's the spot. Yeah. You know, you know, it's funny you talk about that because, you know, we're talking about agents right now and working with newer agents. But even when we were at the recent mortgage con event and we were talking with Neil Dhingra, right, he got up on stage and what he was talking about is most originators want the right now. I want it right now. I've got to have it right now. And I think it's because a lot of the times they're chasing a paycheck. And it may not even be a paycheck for that month. It may have been a paycheck they needed six months ago, right? And what he said was, the moment I stopped chasing... And I started building a brand that people could trust and rely on and started focusing on the people that were going to buy later, not the ones they're going to buy right now. I stopped having to chase. And I thought that was just a phenomenal way of breaking it down because, again, you've got these lobsters that are chasing, I need it today. And they just, they're always chasing. They never stop the chase. They're always chasing. And the person that's looking down the road and say, hey, if I do this consistently over time, I'm going to build a population of people that know, like, trust me, and they're going to think about me when that time comes. And guess what? I don't have to go chase, which takes away the desperation, makes you come across as a true professional to the markets that you serve. And I think that's kind of what you're talking about here too, John, because effectively when you're stepping in front of the new agent before they get busy, before they start that brand and you help them along the way, Once that happens, your future production is already committed. It's there because you took the time to help pave the way. It doesn't take a marketing genius to be a friend. I mean, just be a friend. Neil's good at it, man. Neil's good at like he, you know, he, he builds his business based on, you know, the consistency part of it, but he, he's viewed as a celebrity authority. And I think, you know, at my age, almost fifty now, it's like I've had to, you you're you're really good at it devin of like making sure that you get out there the podcast and so forth and you know i view you as a celebrity authority but i view you as like knowledgeable knows the business and that's coming from a peer we're only five years younger than you Five days younger than you. But imagine that for a new agent. So now your marketing does exactly what Neil teaches is like the consistency. Get out there. And then it's not chasing the numbers. It's not chasing the loans. It's the attraction part. And if you're creating a marketing where you are marketing to the newer agent, look, it's so easy, man. It's so bananas easy. I might do this tomorrow is just going to do a video saying, hey, I've got this new class call behind the scenes. If you're a new agent in this industry and you just want to learn what the terms are and all the acronyms and you just want to get more knowledgeable in your sponge and you just want to soak it all up, just meet me at this coffee shop at ten o'clock. I've only got space for six. And then in the afternoon, I've only got space for six. And then I'd be willing to bet you I'll have twelve new agents in front of me. I would have made twelve friends in one day. Yeah. Right. And just follow up with them. Hey, you got any more questions? I'm your guy. Right. So now they're coming to me. You beat me to it because I was going to say, you know, as loan officers, a lot of the times and we know this because we're in leadership roles. Right. But at the end of the day, there's a lot of loan officers. We just jump off a call. But what do I present about? Right. Like, I'm going to sit down. I'm going to talk about something. And you said it. You said, hey, look, we're just going to talk about terms and mortgage knowledge that you'll want to know as you start your career as a new agent. Right. Um, but what are some of the other topics? Cause I think a lot of the times we overcomplicate that, right? Like this is going to be so hard. We're going to step up and they're going to call us out because we're not great at what we do, but man, this is what we do every day. Right. So like, what are some of those topics that you would teach? Well, why do I go FHA instead of conventional? Hmm. They don't know that. I mean, it's credit score. Not all the time. What are the pros, cons for VA? You're never going to hear me say VA is not the best loan market. I still think it is. And then, oh my gosh, like marketing. What kind of messages can you send out there? So we do a cage list for real estate agents. um which is pretty cool so i can do like little thirty minute classes for them on that um we do the behind the scenes thing we kind of talk about like i'm not a credit repair person so i can't advertise i know how to repair credit but i can advertise what we look for with credit so we can teach real estate agents how to do that um i can keep going devin you want to keep going Well, you could even talk about like credit, you know, credit expert tools, right? Where, hey, look, we can't fix the credit, but we do have tools that help us see how the client could potentially improve their positioning and do it in a really short term amount of time. But I think the favorite one that I have that you teach, and you just did this on the MLO Live show a couple of weeks back with your agent business partner, Zeddy Briggs, who also does the Cageless events with you. And, you know, you were just talking about the things that we do as originators that a lot of agents don't know. Right. And literally just kind of walk and talk through that a little bit. Like, what does that look like? What do you mean? What we do that agents don't know or don't do? What does that presentation look like? Again, I'm a law officer. I'm listening in. I'm like, how do I bring value to the people that I'm serving? What do I say when I go out there and talk about it? It was so basic that it was mind-blowing. Are you talking about the behind-the-scenes class? Yes. Just talk a little bit about it. Okay. know i i walk them through the process what happens to your client when they finally contact me and and how do you get them to contact me without fear everybody's scared of the big bad loan officer right so you're a new agent and you've got someone that says hey i want to buy a house okay my broker in charge told me that the first thing you have to do is you have to contact a mortgage loan officer and bring me a pre-qualification letter I know this person or I know these three people, which really means, you know, three average people, by the way. So bring one person and then off you go. Come back to me with a letter. No, no, no, no, no. So now I get in front of this new agent. I say, no, do a group text. Treat me like a friend. Let's don't make me scary looking. Don't make them intimidated to call me. So then we do a group text and then I do the old joyful action. Hey, what's up? You know, it's good to see you. Blah, blah, blah. Oh, I'm going to need to get some information from you. Don't worry. I won't need your hair and blood until later in the process. Joke about it. Make it fun. Whatever. So then the new agent's feeling, hey, this is pretty cool. Okay, so it's not as scary a process because I haven't closed a deal yet or I've only closed one or two and I'm going to make it scary. So then what I do is I get in front of the agent and we kind of go through this whole process of like, You do the application. And then that's when we start collecting documentation. So then I go like, all right, so there's really like eight different types of way we calculate income. And there's variable income, there's salary, there's hourly, there's self-employed, there's a hundred percent commission. What's the difference between those? And you kind of skim the surface with it and you explain it to them, but you're only telling them what they need to know. So they sound educated when they talk to the client. And then you go through the pre-approval process. What are we looking for, for debt to income ratio? What are we looking for, for this? And just the basic stuff. Then we talk about DU and LP, how important that is. What do those acronyms mean? Why do we rely on it? And then we just go into, and then this is when we go through here. And then you can really split that class up into three different classes because it does take a while to go through it. But like, but when you get to the whole point, like when you're, you get to a point like why do we go conventional not fha they just start asking questions they just start eating it up and like oh so like but even though fha's got this upfront premium it still saves them money to go this way because of this and you're like yeah and then you know sometimes rates a little bit more forgiving on fha because of credit but we've got this program over here and you go through it and you don't really get so into the atrocity you go over their head but you're you're guiding them as to why we go down the path that we go you're setting proper expectations so that they have a clear understanding as to what to look out for And what you're doing on the back end when they hand it off. And I think the most brilliant part about this whole thing is, John, number one, you're meeting them before they get busy, before they're out there becoming the monster agent that they're going to become. Number two, you're literally teaching them how to refer the business to you, which is great. This is how you refer to me once everything comes together. Yeah. This is just how we close deals. And then, you know, from that point, you're telling them what to look for from a great loan originator, which you are, right? So they already know when they're talking to somebody who's not so great, what red flags to be looking out for. Well, another thing, too, for everybody that's listening to this, like when you educate someone like this, you're not dumbing it down. Don't think of it that way. You're giving them the information because how many loan officers are out there or like agents just stay in your lane? Oh, I hate that. I hate that so bad. Dude, this is their paycheck, man. They need to know what's going on. They don't need to speak lenderese. They just need to understand it, right? And during this training, you're not teaching or training the agent to combat you with the information. You're simply teaching them how to communicate with you on information. Right. Ashley, girl, we got a problem. Guess what didn't run? She'll go, oh no, tell me DU didn't run. Yep, DU didn't run. We're going to have to figure something out. Give me a couple seconds and I'll have that pre-approval. I got to finagle it a little bit because you know we need, she goes, DU. You know what I mean? She knows we need it. So it's like... So she understands what DU is instead of, don't worry about it. I'll take care of it. And then now she's waiting. She's anxious. She doesn't know what's going to happen and what's next for me. And these new agents that are out there, dude, they're sponges. They want to know this stuff. They want to be good. That's it. They want to be good. They're going after it, man. They want to take care of their people, the people that they serve, and they want to be able to lead them and lead them well. You said something earlier about protecting the agents commission. And I think, you know, as loan officers, you know, and originators, we need to think about that because I think sometimes originators don't think about that. They're like, they handed this lead and at the end of the day, I'm going to work it up for them and I'll get back to them when I get back to them. i've seen that i've literally seen that and the great loan officers say no no let me tell you something let me tell you what this lead really is this lead is a potential ten twenty thirty thousand dollar opportunity maybe one of the only transactions this agent's gonna close for the year and at the end of the day they're gonna nurture this thing like it's their newborn baby and if you're not gonna take the time to nurture that business for them they're gonna find somebody else that will right One hundred percent. That's it. I can't say any better than that. I mean, it's there. It is their baby. You know, that's that's what you're trying to protect. And, you know, for for some of us that have been in the industry for a really long time, we can get caught up in the another transaction part of it, depending on how busy you are and so forth. when you get to that point in your career, step the F back and remember who you're working with. And especially if you take on, actually, let's put it this way. If you take on the responsibility of working with a new agent yeah take on that responsibility seriously because you're you're you're you're basically training them for their livelihood and um that's that's a that's a heavy responsibility heavy yeah and i can promise you i know a lot of real estate companies out there and the way they're structured with new laws and regulations and everything else like that the bics are not as available and they're not able to do the training that they should be able to do because of the way they have it set up. So as a loan officer, at least educate them on what you've got and what you can do for them. Yeah, I love it, man. So the year of the rookie, right? That's what we talked about. New agents, new money. And, you know, what you're really doing here and the best way I think you could present is you're planting seeds, right? These are seeds that you're planting. And then, you know, by doing the presentations and the follow through, now you're nurturing those seeds, right? You're giving them water and you're giving them fertilizer, right? So that they can go out there and grow. But the beautiful part about all this, John, and you talked about this because it's one to many, right? So now instead of focusing on one person, you're focusing on many people. You're nurturing all those people. And then as they grow and flourish into crops, you all win. It's not just you. You all win. And the best part is the clients get served so well because you're helping these new agents by guiding the way. And then when they get transitioned over to you, Right. You're going to provide them a great service as well. And, you know, this is something I talk about all the time in this industry. We have to serve our people well, like as leaders. We have to serve our originators well, because if we don't, they should fire us. Right. And if we're originators, we have to serve our agents and our borrowers well. where they should fire us. And that means that we should always be getting educated and we should always be educating others. And if we remember that we're to go so far in this business, we're going to help so many people in this business and the money, it'll always come. It always come. If you lead from that mindset, create the stories first, put the people first, and then the money will come afterwards. You know, it kind of is in the lack of another story is today at six, I'm doing a first time home buyer seminar for a brand new agent. Well, when you help someone like a brand new agent, guess who in their office notices you helping them? Maybe some of the bigger agents. And then they're going to go, that was pretty cool. And maybe they call you and say, hey, thanks for helping out this agent and doing this. You're helping them grow business and helping them. You're providing value. And you're like, I can provide you value too. So there you go. You open the door because that baby agent, is talking awesome things about you like he took the time to do this and that and you never know what kind of doors will open for you when you're just a friend and you're out there helping that's it well you just remind me of the charlie rocket story right and you know what's funny is a lot of times we're trying to go straight to the bigger agent that already has people they're doing business with And that doesn't always work because they've already got relationships that they know and that are treating them really well, right? But what Charlie said is that if you go to the front door and you knock and somebody doesn't answer, go to the back door, right? And if you go to the back door and they don't answer, there's probably a window, right? And go find that window. And that's going to open up opportunities that other people miss out on. That's what you're talking about is that indirectly, we're going to be able to get to some of these larger agents by nurturing the smaller agents, which is really climbing through that open window, right? And then helping them grow their business, which indirectly shows others who you are because you're showing up and you're getting it done. And now all of a sudden, by the nature of the situation, you start working with larger agents on top of the top, the small newer agents that are growing, right? The ones that are just getting started and will become at some point in time, some of the powerhouses out there in the industry. Yeah. And as giants, it's hard to fit through that window, but just make your way through it somehow. Find a way to get through that window. Let's get through it, man. That's what I was saying. Window. I'm just going right through it. I want coffee now. Me want business. Let's go. No, I love it, man. I do. I do love it. I, I, um, been doing this for twenty two years, man, and I have shifted and pivoted and gone back and forth. And I think I'm at a point in my business and my career. And I think you are, too, where, you know, I'm just at a point where I want to help now. And, you know, the business takes care of itself. That is what I have learned is it just takes care of itself. When you do nothing, nothing happens. But when you are when you provide value and you're just out there helping the It gets noticed. It just gets noticed. The word spreads and good things happen in your life. And I think today's topic in helping people get into this business, even on the real estate side, is a rewarding thing. And it will reward you later. Just don't look for it. Just let it happen on its own. That's it. That's it. Well, again, you know, I'm going to go back to the plant seeds thing. You know, no farmer ever planted seeds and walked out the door the next day and said, why is this crop not grown? Like what's going on? Right. Like they know what it takes. You got to have to get out there and water it and nurture it and fertilize it. But then sixty, ninety, eighty, one hundred and twenty days from now, you come out and you look out and you get this beautiful opportunity in front of you. And I always like to say a bountiful harvest, right, that you could bring home. But I think it's more than that, man. Because again, for me, I love the opportunity to help others. And I think that's really what it boils down to because you feel really good about yourself when you're not just making money for you, but you're making money for others and you're making homes. for the people you serve, you know? And I think that's why I love this industry so much, you know, is because we're literally we're helping so many people, so many families along the way. It's not just the families that are getting into homes and building generational wealth. It's everybody, every step along the way. And man, that's why I think we do this podcast. I'm pretty sure, John, that's why you do Cageless. And man, we're just the big, dumb animals out there that love to help people. That's that's about it. We help mortgage. That's it, man. I love it, man. And I like being described as a big dumb animal because it is very true. But I tell you, I've led this business with my heart, and it works. So just, you know, it's cool. Yeah, and doing mortgages is kind of cool, man. I mean, after twenty-two years, oh, my gosh, you got people calling you saying, hey, I made my last payment on my mortgage, and I have a house, own, free, and clear. Yeah, yeah. Man, what a cool feeling. And I don't know, man, I'm excited for twenty twenty six. But this is the year of the new agents. I feel like there's a shift coming with. I agree. I think that whole millennial base is starting to wake up and say, I need to buy a house. And I think it's I think it's coming. Well, I also see something too, you know, is I think there's a lot of people out there that are just motivated to get it done right now. You know, there's been folks that have been struggling, but when you see this new crop of people coming out and just figuring out hacks on how they can make money earlier on in life, And I think that's exciting stuff. So for me, I look at some of these younger people coming into the industry as frontrunners. They already know what they want. They know they can get it. And they're actually willing to put forth the work to go out and make it happen. And so I tend to agree with you too, John. Let's break the myth. So myth is broken today, right? New Edge, it's the way to go. Smashed. Get to know them and nurture the relationships and take them serious because they're the seeds, like you said. Point well taken, sir. Good stuff, man. Any closing thoughts before we wrap up today, John? No, not in that regard, man. I think we covered it really well. Good stuff, man. Well, I think we're going to keep bringing back giant thoughts from two giant men. So keep coming back every single week. We will be here on Fridays. I think our format is at one PM. I believe it's a central two PM Eastern. You know, if you're here, so just tell us because these big dumb animals, sometimes we forget to look at the clock. No, just JK, JK. Yeah. Well, guys and gals, thank you so much for tuning in. As always, we're your mortgage giants. I'm Devin Dubuque. I'm John Hinks. We will catch you on the next one.