1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:01,740 Jessie Cruickshank: Welcome to the ordinary discipleship 2 00:00:01,740 --> 00:00:05,940 Podcast. I'm Jesse Cruikshank, and we love to talk about how 3 00:00:06,000 --> 00:00:08,580 people are responding to the call of God on their life. If 4 00:00:08,580 --> 00:00:13,200 you are unsure if God is asking you to do something, then this 5 00:00:13,200 --> 00:00:17,100 is the episode for you. So I have Jacqueline and obey 6 00:00:17,160 --> 00:00:22,160 Arellano, and we are going to talk today about their life as 7 00:00:22,160 --> 00:00:26,960 ministers in Mexico, and just the things that God is doing in 8 00:00:26,960 --> 00:00:29,480 Mexico, in the in in the ministry that they're working 9 00:00:29,480 --> 00:00:32,060 with. So they have experience all over the world. They're 10 00:00:32,060 --> 00:00:35,060 going to share a little bit about that as well. Jacqueline, 11 00:00:35,060 --> 00:00:39,260 Ove so happy to have you on today. Thank you for being with 12 00:00:39,380 --> 00:00:41,500 Jacqueline Arellano: us. Thank you very much for having us. 13 00:00:41,500 --> 00:00:46,120 Thank you so much for having us. Well, ladies, first always. My 14 00:00:46,120 --> 00:00:50,080 name is Jacqueline Arellano, and I serve with exponential 15 00:00:50,080 --> 00:00:56,620 Espanol. We have been serving with exponential USA since about 16 00:00:56,620 --> 00:01:03,120 2010 ish 11, and so we now have founded. OB has founded 17 00:01:03,120 --> 00:01:05,460 exponential Espanol in 2020. Yeah, 18 00:01:05,459 --> 00:01:07,319 Jessie Cruickshank: it's a great year to found something, isn't 19 00:01:07,319 --> 00:01:10,739 it? Let me start a new ministry. It's funny. Yeah, it was, it 20 00:01:13,980 --> 00:01:16,440 Obe Arellano: was a great year. It was actually because things 21 00:01:16,440 --> 00:01:19,260 were just low. It was just a good year to focus on getting 22 00:01:19,260 --> 00:01:24,740 it, getting it off the ground. Yeah. OB, you know, leading 23 00:01:24,740 --> 00:01:27,980 exponential spaniel together, lead exponential Spaniel, and 24 00:01:27,980 --> 00:01:31,400 it's been great the last five years being on this adventure 25 00:01:31,460 --> 00:01:34,760 helping churches, helping Hispanic or Spanish speaking 26 00:01:34,760 --> 00:01:39,860 churches, be able to to go beyond addition into 27 00:01:39,860 --> 00:01:43,660 reproduction and multiplication of churches. So that's the area 28 00:01:43,780 --> 00:01:44,980 of ministry that we're 29 00:01:44,980 --> 00:01:47,080 Jessie Cruickshank: in, yeah. So for those of the audience that 30 00:01:47,080 --> 00:01:50,620 don't know what exponential is, just say a little bit more about 31 00:01:50,680 --> 00:01:53,980 the becoming five, and just give them a little idea of what the 32 00:01:53,980 --> 00:01:57,460 church planting or the church multiplication paradigm is. So 33 00:01:57,580 --> 00:02:00,120 Unknown: yeah. So the exponentials mission is to see 34 00:02:00,120 --> 00:02:03,780 that multiplication of churches becomes like the measure of 35 00:02:03,780 --> 00:02:08,520 success, so that more churches can become church planting 36 00:02:08,520 --> 00:02:12,600 churches, and be able to reach more people. There's five 37 00:02:12,600 --> 00:02:15,240 levels. Exponential has done research, and we've discovered 38 00:02:15,240 --> 00:02:18,060 there's five levels of churches, and I'll briefly go through 39 00:02:18,060 --> 00:02:21,320 them, level one or level churches that are in decline, 40 00:02:21,380 --> 00:02:24,620 churches that are subtracting. So I mean, just like you know, 41 00:02:24,620 --> 00:02:28,040 the level shows that churches are declining in in attendance, 42 00:02:28,040 --> 00:02:32,420 in membership, in impact, in their neighborhood or community 43 00:02:32,420 --> 00:02:36,320 or city. Level two is a church that is plateaued pretty much. 44 00:02:36,320 --> 00:02:39,140 It's stuck. It's not growing. It's not in decline, either. 45 00:02:39,560 --> 00:02:43,660 Level three are the church of addition, those are churches 46 00:02:43,660 --> 00:02:49,540 that are growing, growing in numbers and impact. Level four 47 00:02:49,660 --> 00:02:53,020 is a church that is reproducing, churches that are starting to 48 00:02:53,080 --> 00:02:56,680 reproduce who they are, what they do, reproducing churches in 49 00:02:56,680 --> 00:03:00,280 other parts of their city or state or country, wherever, 50 00:03:00,280 --> 00:03:02,340 whatever whatever vision they have. And the level five 51 00:03:02,340 --> 00:03:04,920 churches are the church of multiplication. Churches that 52 00:03:04,920 --> 00:03:09,900 are multiplying. Level five churches are churches that are 53 00:03:09,900 --> 00:03:14,160 reproducing. So level four but are reproducing to the the 54 00:03:14,160 --> 00:03:17,340 fourth generation of church plants and beyond. That's, 55 00:03:17,340 --> 00:03:20,600 that's what makes them a multiplying church, church that 56 00:03:20,600 --> 00:03:23,720 are leaving a legacy of multiplication. There's a 57 00:03:23,720 --> 00:03:28,340 percentage so 80% of the churches, 80% of the churches 58 00:03:28,400 --> 00:03:33,560 are level one or level two, so in decline or plateaued. 13% are 59 00:03:33,680 --> 00:03:38,540 adding or growing. 7% are reproducing and multiplying. So 60 00:03:38,540 --> 00:03:44,380 level four, level five. So our mission is to see that 16% of 61 00:03:44,380 --> 00:03:47,620 churches become level four, level five, reproducing or 62 00:03:47,620 --> 00:03:51,520 multiplying churches. So what we do is we offer resources, 63 00:03:51,580 --> 00:03:56,920 through books, through gathering experiences, spaces where 64 00:03:57,040 --> 00:04:00,840 leaders can be poured into sharing resources to help them 65 00:04:00,840 --> 00:04:04,200 leaders become multiplying leaders that help their churches 66 00:04:04,200 --> 00:04:05,640 become multiplying churches. 67 00:04:05,940 --> 00:04:08,220 Jessie Cruickshank: I love it. And so you guys are doing that 68 00:04:08,220 --> 00:04:09,840 work now in Mexico, 69 00:04:10,260 --> 00:04:14,220 Unknown: right? So, um, yes, yes. Ish. Tell 70 00:04:14,700 --> 00:04:18,480 Jessie Cruickshank: us about that. Tell us about how there's 71 00:04:18,480 --> 00:04:19,560 a journey we're on. Yes. 72 00:04:19,560 --> 00:04:22,580 Unknown: So we have been serving the Spanish speaking church for 73 00:04:22,580 --> 00:04:27,380 the past four years. That's fully been our concentration is 74 00:04:27,380 --> 00:04:31,460 the Spanish speaking five years now in the United States. And so 75 00:04:31,460 --> 00:04:36,380 in the end of last year, we made the move to Mexico City, so we 76 00:04:36,440 --> 00:04:41,320 can strategically be positioned in Latin America to expand now 77 00:04:41,320 --> 00:04:45,220 to Latin America. So everything that we have learned through 78 00:04:45,220 --> 00:04:48,640 exponential USA, and then also through the work that we've been 79 00:04:48,640 --> 00:04:52,960 doing through exponential Espanol, now we're trying to see 80 00:04:52,960 --> 00:04:56,200 how we expand into Latin America. And so that's where 81 00:04:56,200 --> 00:04:59,200 we're at right now. We are starting off the year trying to 82 00:04:59,200 --> 00:05:04,200 meet and. Be in spaces where we get to meet more Latin American 83 00:05:04,200 --> 00:05:08,400 leaders that are passionate about multiplication as well. So 84 00:05:08,400 --> 00:05:11,940 that way we can continue growing and bringing the resources that 85 00:05:11,940 --> 00:05:16,140 we have accumulated for the few years, the past few years, to 86 00:05:16,440 --> 00:05:19,500 Latin America. Yeah. So here we are in Mexico City, in 87 00:05:19,500 --> 00:05:23,120 Mexico City, like you mentioned, strategic, because it is a hub 88 00:05:23,840 --> 00:05:27,680 that is connected to every country in Central and South 89 00:05:27,680 --> 00:05:32,060 America, including Mexico that's in North America. But we can, we 90 00:05:32,060 --> 00:05:36,260 can go to any major city of any country in Latin America. And 91 00:05:36,260 --> 00:05:40,100 also we can, because we're still serving in the US. Exponential 92 00:05:40,100 --> 00:05:43,540 Spaniel is still doing work in the US for the Hispanic churches 93 00:05:43,540 --> 00:05:44,260 in the USA. I'm 94 00:05:44,500 --> 00:05:47,020 Jessie Cruickshank: glad you didn't abandon us, not at all, 95 00:05:47,020 --> 00:05:49,480 not just expanded. You expanded 96 00:05:49,480 --> 00:05:51,820 Unknown: your tent. That's what that's all we're doing. Expanded 97 00:05:51,820 --> 00:05:55,240 our tent. Yeah, we're expanding. We're still committed to the 98 00:05:55,240 --> 00:05:58,900 Hispanic church in the US. That's not changing. So from 99 00:05:58,900 --> 00:06:01,980 Mexico City, strategically, we can go to anywhere in Latin 100 00:06:01,980 --> 00:06:05,340 America, in South America and Central America, but also we can 101 00:06:05,340 --> 00:06:09,720 go to any major city, and we're as connected, sorry, in the US, 102 00:06:09,900 --> 00:06:13,800 we're as connected as if we were living in in the US. Still. So, 103 00:06:14,400 --> 00:06:16,740 so it's strategic. Why also Mexico City? 104 00:06:17,100 --> 00:06:19,980 Jessie Cruickshank: No, no, that totally makes sense. So my 105 00:06:19,980 --> 00:06:22,400 question that, like the first one that comes up is, what do 106 00:06:22,400 --> 00:06:24,920 you find that's translating well, because it feels like, 107 00:06:24,920 --> 00:06:28,160 wow, that is a universal struggle or paradigm or 108 00:06:28,160 --> 00:06:32,240 learning, regardless of what country you're in or what people 109 00:06:32,240 --> 00:06:34,640 group you're working with, and then what are you finding that 110 00:06:34,640 --> 00:06:37,460 seems a bit more contextualized? You're like, wow, okay, that's 111 00:06:37,460 --> 00:06:39,680 the thing that they're dealing with the Hispanic churches or 112 00:06:39,680 --> 00:06:41,920 Spanish speaking churches are dealing with in nor in, you 113 00:06:41,920 --> 00:06:45,040 know, the United States, but it doesn't really transfer that 114 00:06:45,040 --> 00:06:49,720 well to, you know, some of the the more rural parts of Central 115 00:06:49,720 --> 00:06:52,900 and South America. Or is it the cities that are the same? Is the 116 00:06:52,900 --> 00:06:56,260 culture that's the same? Like, like, how are you? How are you 117 00:06:56,560 --> 00:07:00,540 discerning what translates and what needs contextualization and 118 00:07:00,540 --> 00:07:03,840 maybe even additional resources or specialized resources. 119 00:07:04,020 --> 00:07:06,780 Unknown: It's such a complex question. I can go diff we can 120 00:07:06,780 --> 00:07:10,860 go different directions. So culturally, it is very different 121 00:07:10,920 --> 00:07:16,920 than the even than the Hispanic culture in the US. Even you were 122 00:07:16,920 --> 00:07:20,040 saying earlier today that what's the percentage of Latinos in the 123 00:07:20,040 --> 00:07:23,720 US that are immigrants from Latin America. Did you say? What 124 00:07:23,720 --> 00:07:23,900 was 125 00:07:23,900 --> 00:07:28,880 that so, out of the Hispanics, or Latin Americans that are in 126 00:07:28,880 --> 00:07:34,700 the United States, only 33% are non US citizens 127 00:07:35,120 --> 00:07:41,440 from the 65 million people Latinos that are in the US, 30% 128 00:07:41,800 --> 00:07:46,120 of that are non US citizen, that are essentially immigrants from 129 00:07:46,120 --> 00:07:47,440 a Latin American country. So 130 00:07:47,440 --> 00:07:50,260 Jessie Cruickshank: 70% are US citizens. 131 00:07:50,320 --> 00:07:54,400 Unknown: Yes, US citizen or resident. They are with legal 132 00:07:54,400 --> 00:07:57,700 documentation into the in the United States. And they can be 133 00:07:57,760 --> 00:08:00,600 already third, fourth generation as well. So we've been in the 134 00:08:00,600 --> 00:08:02,580 United States for a few years, 135 00:08:04,260 --> 00:08:05,940 Jessie Cruickshank: for a few years. I mean, I live in, I live 136 00:08:05,940 --> 00:08:08,700 in the West, right? I mean, I know that the border of Mexico 137 00:08:08,700 --> 00:08:12,300 came up to Pueblo Colorado, right? I mean, like, I'm aware 138 00:08:12,540 --> 00:08:14,460 of our geographic history, right? 139 00:08:14,460 --> 00:08:18,420 Unknown: Yeah, kind of crossed us a little. So the context for 140 00:08:18,420 --> 00:08:21,140 those third, fourth and generations in the immigrant 141 00:08:21,140 --> 00:08:24,740 even in the United States, is very different from immigrant 142 00:08:25,040 --> 00:08:27,500 people that are coming to the United States to the people that 143 00:08:27,500 --> 00:08:29,900 have been born there through generations, or were there 144 00:08:29,900 --> 00:08:35,780 before even the border crossed. This is very different to what 145 00:08:35,780 --> 00:08:38,900 it is in Mexico and the rest of Latin 146 00:08:38,960 --> 00:08:41,860 America, and that's why I mentioned understanding a little 147 00:08:41,860 --> 00:08:47,080 bit of the his the Latino context, and the subcultures 148 00:08:47,080 --> 00:08:51,760 that are in the Hispanic context in the US, is necessary to 149 00:08:51,760 --> 00:08:55,540 understand, or even for me to say, well, let me compare the 150 00:08:55,960 --> 00:08:59,560 culture of Mexico, where we're in right now, or cities in Latin 151 00:08:59,560 --> 00:09:03,420 America, to the US, because it's you can compare it. There's so 152 00:09:03,420 --> 00:09:07,800 many subcultures, there's so many generations of Latinos, and 153 00:09:07,800 --> 00:09:13,320 only 30% 30 Yeah, 30% are immigrants. So comparing it like 154 00:09:13,380 --> 00:09:16,440 side by side, it's very difficult, right? Because also 155 00:09:16,440 --> 00:09:22,580 within that 30% or even the 70% the the 65 million Hispanic 156 00:09:22,580 --> 00:09:27,020 Latinos are in the US. There's every country in Latin America 157 00:09:27,020 --> 00:09:30,260 represented, right? So the majority, yes, is Mexico, and 158 00:09:30,260 --> 00:09:33,020 then there's a few others that have high percentages. But even 159 00:09:33,020 --> 00:09:36,980 that, it's difficult to compare side by side. But as far as like 160 00:09:37,040 --> 00:09:40,220 church culture goes, which is the area that we're serving in, 161 00:09:40,460 --> 00:09:44,080 it's also very different. There's this weird dynamic that 162 00:09:44,080 --> 00:09:48,280 I think I came to discover that I'm I don't know if it's that, 163 00:09:48,280 --> 00:09:52,300 it's been proved, but at least I can observe this, and it boggles 164 00:09:52,300 --> 00:09:55,360 my mind, and this, this will help understand the culture 165 00:09:55,360 --> 00:09:59,200 context, difference of churches in Latin America and in the US. 166 00:09:59,200 --> 00:10:02,340 So for instance. Churches, the Hispanic church in the US, the 167 00:10:02,340 --> 00:10:06,180 majority of Hispanic, Spanish speaking churches, they actually 168 00:10:06,180 --> 00:10:09,660 look up to their churches in Latin America, their churches 169 00:10:09,660 --> 00:10:12,000 where they came from, whether it's their sending church, or 170 00:10:12,000 --> 00:10:15,240 the church where they became Christians or an influential 171 00:10:15,240 --> 00:10:17,880 church in Latin America, because they understand the language, 172 00:10:17,940 --> 00:10:20,900 the context, all that stuff, right? But they look up to them. 173 00:10:21,380 --> 00:10:24,380 And then what's happening? The dynamic is that the churches 174 00:10:24,380 --> 00:10:27,740 that they're looking up to in Latin America, they are actually 175 00:10:27,740 --> 00:10:31,760 looking up at the church in the US to be influenced by them. 176 00:10:31,760 --> 00:10:32,660 Does that make sense? 177 00:10:32,720 --> 00:10:34,400 Jessie Cruickshank: Oh, totally, totally. It's like, who's your 178 00:10:34,400 --> 00:10:35,360 spiritual hero? 179 00:10:35,420 --> 00:10:38,600 Unknown: These ones are being influenced by that. So in 180 00:10:38,600 --> 00:10:42,400 essence, they could be looking directly to their neighbors and 181 00:10:42,400 --> 00:10:46,120 learn from them, but many are not doing that. The majority are 182 00:10:46,120 --> 00:10:50,320 not doing that. So that creates a huge gap between the Hispanic 183 00:10:50,320 --> 00:10:53,620 church in the US. Maybe you've heard this before, the Hispanic 184 00:10:53,620 --> 00:10:58,600 church in the US, and even a lot of culture is about 20 years 185 00:10:58,600 --> 00:11:03,060 behind the predominant culture in the US, right? And that 186 00:11:03,060 --> 00:11:05,880 because they're looking down, so there's a delay. And then that 187 00:11:06,060 --> 00:11:09,660 the church in Latin America, it's about about 10 years behind 188 00:11:09,660 --> 00:11:12,300 from the church in the US, so then that creates a bigger gap. 189 00:11:12,300 --> 00:11:15,420 So that just, I mean, I don't know if I'm confusing and I'm 190 00:11:15,780 --> 00:11:19,200 just going long on that, but that that just a weird dynamic 191 00:11:19,200 --> 00:11:23,420 that we're seeing within the people that we're interacting 192 00:11:23,420 --> 00:11:26,480 with here, but also that we've been interacting with in the US 193 00:11:26,480 --> 00:11:27,920 for years, for many years now. 194 00:11:27,920 --> 00:11:29,600 Jessie Cruickshank: So, so then what are you what are you 195 00:11:29,600 --> 00:11:34,100 finding? Transfers? Where do you find the growth edge is? And 196 00:11:34,100 --> 00:11:36,020 what are you seeing? What the You know? What are you seeing 197 00:11:36,020 --> 00:11:37,100 that God is doing? 198 00:11:37,280 --> 00:11:41,020 Unknown: So in what transfers, I'll let you share on what we're 199 00:11:41,020 --> 00:11:44,920 seeing God do. But in the things that are transfers, well and 200 00:11:44,920 --> 00:11:50,140 easy, are principle based practices or teachings, right 201 00:11:50,140 --> 00:11:54,940 things that are it's more a principle rather than, Oh, let 202 00:11:54,940 --> 00:11:58,180 me do it, because this is my model of how we're doing it in 203 00:11:58,180 --> 00:12:02,700 the US. So exponential. We've, we've kind of, we have 204 00:12:02,760 --> 00:12:08,460 simplified the the areas where we think every church needs to 205 00:12:08,460 --> 00:12:11,880 focus on and multiply in those areas so that they can 206 00:12:11,880 --> 00:12:15,900 experience multiplication in churches. So we try to simplify 207 00:12:15,900 --> 00:12:21,500 it by creating principle, you know, based resources. So for 208 00:12:21,500 --> 00:12:24,800 instance, multiplying discipleship, discipleship, it's 209 00:12:24,800 --> 00:12:28,280 a it's a huge area of multiplication that we need to, 210 00:12:28,280 --> 00:12:33,860 you know, address. And so that's like making disciples. And make 211 00:12:33,860 --> 00:12:37,280 disciples, creating a disciple, making culture, not just a 212 00:12:37,280 --> 00:12:41,200 discipleship. I feel like discipleship. It entails more 213 00:12:41,200 --> 00:12:44,980 about class, classes and that type of study, yeah, spiritual 214 00:12:44,980 --> 00:12:47,800 Jessie Cruickshank: disciplines and learning, right? Yeah, 215 00:12:48,460 --> 00:12:51,340 Unknown: disciple making culture. It's life, doing life, 216 00:12:51,700 --> 00:12:56,080 inviting others into our journey. So we, we want to have, 217 00:12:56,260 --> 00:12:59,860 we want to share that, that level of principle of disciple 218 00:12:59,860 --> 00:13:05,040 making. So when we talk about disciple making, it's so simple 219 00:13:05,040 --> 00:13:08,400 in its essence that it can be applied in whatever context the 220 00:13:08,400 --> 00:13:13,560 church is working that area. And so then when we bring that those 221 00:13:13,560 --> 00:13:18,000 teachings and learnings to Mexico or Latin America, it's so 222 00:13:18,000 --> 00:13:20,960 easy to be applied in its context because we're just 223 00:13:20,960 --> 00:13:24,020 removing all of the models, and this church is doing that. The 224 00:13:24,020 --> 00:13:26,960 church isn't that, but it's like, it's a foundational aspect 225 00:13:26,960 --> 00:13:30,980 of that that makes it easy to be contextualized, right? So I 226 00:13:30,980 --> 00:13:35,000 think as we simplify those, those principles of 227 00:13:35,000 --> 00:13:38,900 multiplication, at least in our context, multiplying disciples, 228 00:13:38,900 --> 00:13:44,020 multiplying leaders, mobilizing the church for mission and then 229 00:13:44,080 --> 00:13:47,260 simplifying that, those are principle based teachings that 230 00:13:47,260 --> 00:13:50,860 we share, that it makes it easy to be received by any church in 231 00:13:50,860 --> 00:13:53,800 any context in Latin America, rather than like Well, let me 232 00:13:53,800 --> 00:13:57,280 teach you how our church in the US was doing it. So you can do 233 00:13:57,280 --> 00:14:00,220 it even though it's disciple making, but we want to teach a 234 00:14:00,220 --> 00:14:04,320 model that that's what is not necessarily transferable or 235 00:14:04,320 --> 00:14:05,220 contextualized. 236 00:14:05,340 --> 00:14:09,420 So we have two spaces, right? The the Spanish speaking church 237 00:14:09,480 --> 00:14:12,480 in the USA, and then, of course, the Latin American church. And 238 00:14:12,480 --> 00:14:16,740 what I see in both spaces happening, of course, the United 239 00:14:16,740 --> 00:14:21,140 States being the second largest country of Spanish speakers in 240 00:14:21,140 --> 00:14:26,060 the world. What we see is, what we have seen been, been 241 00:14:26,060 --> 00:14:31,100 observing and studying in the past few years, is how God is 242 00:14:31,100 --> 00:14:35,060 raising up the Hispanic church in in the United States. How is 243 00:14:35,060 --> 00:14:38,300 he doing that? I think we're seeing a lot of decline in this, 244 00:14:38,300 --> 00:14:41,980 in the church in the United States. Unfortunately, sometimes 245 00:14:42,280 --> 00:14:45,580 we we don't want to grasp that or accept that, because of how 246 00:14:45,580 --> 00:14:49,480 we were founded in the United States as a is a is how we were 247 00:14:49,480 --> 00:14:53,620 taught. We were founded as a church looking for the freedom 248 00:14:53,680 --> 00:14:57,520 to worship, right and so, like a Christian church and so. But 249 00:14:57,520 --> 00:15:01,260 what we saw in the last few years is that. The Hispanic 250 00:15:01,260 --> 00:15:04,620 Church, the Spanish speaking church is is a church that is 251 00:15:04,620 --> 00:15:08,460 continues to grow. We continue to grow as as believers in 252 00:15:08,460 --> 00:15:13,680 Christ, and so we, we are the church it sounds so we're 253 00:15:13,680 --> 00:15:19,140 amazing, but we, we are the church that's kind of raising 254 00:15:20,160 --> 00:15:25,460 the bar in Christianity for United States. And so we we are 255 00:15:25,640 --> 00:15:29,240 observing that, and we celebrate that, because we know that God 256 00:15:29,240 --> 00:15:32,240 is doing great things through the Hispanic church. And of 257 00:15:32,240 --> 00:15:36,800 course, the enemy will rise up against the Hispanics of our 258 00:15:36,800 --> 00:15:41,020 country, because we are the church that is rising up to be 259 00:15:41,080 --> 00:15:45,880 to be able to do the works that we're doing as Christians. We 260 00:15:45,880 --> 00:15:49,420 hear so many times where we when we go, when we went to Spain a 261 00:15:49,420 --> 00:15:52,360 few years ago, and we heard that so many missionaries were coming 262 00:15:52,360 --> 00:15:57,700 from the Hispanic church to Spain to evangelize Spain now 263 00:15:57,820 --> 00:16:00,960 and help that church be established, that that made that 264 00:16:00,960 --> 00:16:03,840 was a confirmation that the Hispanic church is the church 265 00:16:03,840 --> 00:16:07,260 that's rising up to spread the gospel in the United States into 266 00:16:07,260 --> 00:16:11,280 other places, and so that's one of the things that we observed 267 00:16:11,760 --> 00:16:17,340 as Spanish speaking church. Now, in the past few months, we're 268 00:16:17,340 --> 00:16:22,400 also seeing some changes in how the Hispanic church should 269 00:16:22,400 --> 00:16:26,960 prepare in our countries. You know, like the Spanish speaking 270 00:16:26,960 --> 00:16:31,820 church in Latin America, is going to need to prepare for 271 00:16:31,820 --> 00:16:34,160 some of the changes that are happening in the United States, 272 00:16:34,160 --> 00:16:36,620 to receive all of the people that are coming. And so that's a 273 00:16:36,620 --> 00:16:42,160 huge opportunity for us in Mexico and beyond to prepare our 274 00:16:42,160 --> 00:16:46,420 churches to receive all the maybe undocumented and even 275 00:16:46,420 --> 00:16:52,480 documented people that decide or are deported to their countries 276 00:16:52,480 --> 00:16:55,840 of origin. It's a great opportunity for the church, and 277 00:16:55,840 --> 00:16:59,560 I think we need to be paying attention to what's going on in 278 00:16:59,560 --> 00:17:02,460 the United States, because it will affect us in in the future 279 00:17:03,000 --> 00:17:07,260 as an as the church needs to prepare for all of the all of 280 00:17:07,260 --> 00:17:10,860 the people that will be coming home to their native countries. 281 00:17:11,400 --> 00:17:14,820 And how can we prepare for that? I think there's opportunities 282 00:17:14,820 --> 00:17:17,820 for evangelism, because there's going to be some that will be 283 00:17:17,880 --> 00:17:22,580 deported because of their records or whatever has happened 284 00:17:22,580 --> 00:17:27,020 in their past. But there's also opportunities for many people 285 00:17:27,020 --> 00:17:32,300 that are willing to make a change in their address, to come 286 00:17:32,300 --> 00:17:37,700 and be the maybe the people that we use for opportunities for job 287 00:17:37,940 --> 00:17:44,440 employment and help people that are already here rise and be 288 00:17:44,440 --> 00:17:45,940 better equipped for the future. 289 00:17:46,120 --> 00:17:48,640 Jessie Cruickshank: Yeah, I mean, the last five years, 290 00:17:48,640 --> 00:17:53,080 right, post COVID, the most of the growth in Christianity in 291 00:17:53,080 --> 00:17:56,680 North America was churches planted by the Hispanic Church 292 00:17:56,680 --> 00:18:00,480 and the immigrant church, right? It was the most vibrant part of 293 00:18:00,480 --> 00:18:04,020 the body of Christ in North America. And then in, you know, 294 00:18:04,080 --> 00:18:09,600 2025 we're seeing those churches not feeling safe enough to 295 00:18:09,600 --> 00:18:14,100 gather, right? So, so there. So our friends at World Relief just 296 00:18:14,100 --> 00:18:18,420 sharing that of those of people getting deported, 80% are 297 00:18:18,420 --> 00:18:22,880 Christian. You. You spoke so delicately, Jack, I'm gonna let 298 00:18:22,880 --> 00:18:26,120 your words stand because I I would talk about it a slightly 299 00:18:26,120 --> 00:18:29,600 different way, maybe with a little more higher 300 00:18:30,680 --> 00:18:33,440 Unknown: Well, some people will accept the non delicate version 301 00:18:33,440 --> 00:18:36,920 from you more than from me. So we've learned our lesson through 302 00:18:36,920 --> 00:18:41,560 the years that the way I look sometimes portrays things very 303 00:18:41,560 --> 00:18:44,920 differently than what we're all trying to say. But I have to 304 00:18:44,920 --> 00:18:46,000 speak delicately well. I 305 00:18:46,000 --> 00:18:47,920 Jessie Cruickshank: just want to acknowledge that. And I don't, 306 00:18:47,920 --> 00:18:51,820 you know, I want to thank you for that when and for someone, 307 00:18:51,940 --> 00:18:57,520 somebody else carries water again, for problems, for pain, I 308 00:18:57,700 --> 00:19:01,020 just always want to acknowledge that it sounds like you're 309 00:19:01,020 --> 00:19:06,900 preparing churches across Latin America to accept refugees from 310 00:19:06,960 --> 00:19:09,840 the United States. You know people that they have never you 311 00:19:09,840 --> 00:19:12,060 know countries that they've never been in, countries that 312 00:19:12,060 --> 00:19:14,820 they haven't been raised in, even if that's what other you 313 00:19:14,820 --> 00:19:17,760 know at some point documentation you know demonstrates as a 314 00:19:17,760 --> 00:19:21,800 country of origin. It it sounds like you are seeing that as an 315 00:19:21,800 --> 00:19:26,660 opportunity for people with no culture and no home to to 316 00:19:26,660 --> 00:19:30,620 create, home to create. I mean, if anything just teaches us what 317 00:19:30,680 --> 00:19:36,200 potentially Kingdom looks like, apart from what a social, you 318 00:19:36,200 --> 00:19:40,160 know, national culture could look like, that's like a huge 319 00:19:40,160 --> 00:19:44,320 thing you you guys, in fact, the only thing that you guys have is 320 00:19:44,320 --> 00:19:48,940 a single language, right? It sounds like so many different 321 00:19:48,940 --> 00:19:52,900 cultures, so many different Yes, it's, you know, the unifying 322 00:19:52,900 --> 00:19:57,220 factor is Spanish. And even then, I've, I've, I've been 323 00:19:57,220 --> 00:20:00,840 enough, most of South America in some of. Of the Caribbean, and 324 00:20:00,840 --> 00:20:05,460 like, Spanish is not the same. No, it is not. I can. I can 325 00:20:05,460 --> 00:20:09,240 understand in some nations and in some nations, I can't. How 326 00:20:09,240 --> 00:20:12,180 are you processing that assignment? How are you 327 00:20:12,180 --> 00:20:15,900 processing that? Are you building a team right now? How 328 00:20:15,900 --> 00:20:18,420 can they pray for you? Yeah, that's great. 329 00:20:19,440 --> 00:20:21,320 Unknown: I mean, can I I'll add something that's a great 330 00:20:21,320 --> 00:20:25,100 question, and I think we are, we're, we're we're in the in the 331 00:20:25,100 --> 00:20:28,820 process of listening to that, and how better prepared for 332 00:20:28,820 --> 00:20:32,000 that, because we're in the beginning, in the beginning 333 00:20:32,000 --> 00:20:35,660 phase of all the things that's happening. It's been have it's 334 00:20:35,660 --> 00:20:38,240 happened before. We're not saying it's new, but the way 335 00:20:38,240 --> 00:20:42,580 it's happening right now, it's aggressive, and we're listening, 336 00:20:42,580 --> 00:20:46,300 we're praying. And yes, we want to build a team. We want to have 337 00:20:46,540 --> 00:20:49,840 support, not just through prayer, for us to be able to 338 00:20:49,840 --> 00:20:53,320 help. And we, two people in Mexico City, we're not, will not 339 00:20:53,320 --> 00:20:56,200 be able to do that, but the position that we have leading 340 00:20:56,200 --> 00:21:00,300 exponential Espanol, being able to equip churches to know how to 341 00:21:00,300 --> 00:21:04,320 receive people that maybe don't even know the language in 342 00:21:04,320 --> 00:21:08,580 Spanish, right? They only know English. How To Best equip 343 00:21:08,580 --> 00:21:12,840 churches here to welcome people that are going to be not even 344 00:21:12,840 --> 00:21:16,620 coming back. Some yes men, the majority, but others coming 345 00:21:16,620 --> 00:21:19,200 back, coming to a country they've never been in, which is, 346 00:21:19,200 --> 00:21:24,200 it boggles my mind that that's happening right now. So if I can 347 00:21:24,200 --> 00:21:28,220 say prayer for that type of support to help us equip 348 00:21:28,220 --> 00:21:32,600 churches better to receive people and create safe spaces 349 00:21:32,600 --> 00:21:36,080 where they can journey and disciple them even during their 350 00:21:36,080 --> 00:21:41,380 journey. Support for prayer, for support, financial support for 351 00:21:41,380 --> 00:21:44,740 us to continue doing the trainings and gathering pastors 352 00:21:44,740 --> 00:21:48,040 and leaders to be able to equip them, not just for this, but the 353 00:21:48,040 --> 00:21:50,740 other work that we're doing. Those are two, two ways that 354 00:21:50,740 --> 00:21:55,960 people can be praying for us. But if I can add it's really 355 00:21:56,500 --> 00:22:01,140 important to understand the level of spiritual warfare that 356 00:22:01,140 --> 00:22:04,860 it's happening with all of this, because going back to what Jack 357 00:22:04,860 --> 00:22:10,680 says, We're not only the second largest if we were to count only 358 00:22:10,740 --> 00:22:13,620 the Spanish speakers or the Latinos in the US, we would be 359 00:22:13,620 --> 00:22:16,500 the second largest country, right? There's a whole other 360 00:22:16,500 --> 00:22:20,420 factors that we can say that if we if we can count only the 361 00:22:20,420 --> 00:22:25,280 Hispanic financials or economic economy, we would be the fifth 362 00:22:25,280 --> 00:22:28,760 largest country, the fifth largest economy in the in the 363 00:22:28,760 --> 00:22:33,740 world. There's already some research that that. It's telling 364 00:22:33,740 --> 00:22:38,300 us that in 25 years, in 30 years, the Latinos are going to 365 00:22:38,300 --> 00:22:42,520 be the largest minority, sorry, the largest geographic the group 366 00:22:42,520 --> 00:22:46,240 of people in the US. I mean, if you think about that, the 367 00:22:46,240 --> 00:22:49,840 Latinos will be the largest group of people. Yeah, it'll be 368 00:22:49,840 --> 00:22:53,920 the majority. It will be the majority. And obviously one, 369 00:22:54,160 --> 00:22:57,340 there are some people that don't like that, and they want to stop 370 00:22:57,340 --> 00:23:02,400 that from happening. Hence, what is going on right now. Also you 371 00:23:02,400 --> 00:23:06,000 mentioned that Christianity in the US has been in decline for 372 00:23:06,000 --> 00:23:12,000 the last 25 years. A huge factor that is starting to turn that 373 00:23:12,720 --> 00:23:16,620 the state of Christianity in the US is that Latino churches, the 374 00:23:16,620 --> 00:23:21,380 Latino people you mentioned over the last five years, Latinos, 375 00:23:21,380 --> 00:23:23,960 are the ones who have been planting more vibrant churches, 376 00:23:23,960 --> 00:23:29,480 right? So the enemy, our enemy, our spiritual enemy, does not 377 00:23:29,480 --> 00:23:32,060 like that. It wants to see a country in declining 378 00:23:32,060 --> 00:23:36,800 Christianity. So there's going to be plans that will want to 379 00:23:36,800 --> 00:23:40,100 halt that as you know as early as possible, to not see that 380 00:23:40,100 --> 00:23:44,320 happening. So that level of what's going on behind just what 381 00:23:44,320 --> 00:23:48,460 we see, it's good for us to be aware of knowing that there's a 382 00:23:48,460 --> 00:23:54,760 greater fight that we're that we're in the midst of, beyond 383 00:23:54,760 --> 00:23:57,100 just the things that we're seeing, 384 00:23:57,640 --> 00:24:03,540 just the political things we have been talking about this for 385 00:24:03,540 --> 00:24:05,940 a while, but I think the Hispanic church has been trying 386 00:24:05,940 --> 00:24:11,100 to bring this to the attention of our English speaking only 387 00:24:11,100 --> 00:24:14,340 Americans that hey, you guys need to be starting something in 388 00:24:14,340 --> 00:24:17,400 Spanish. Why isn't this in Spanish? Why aren't we doing 389 00:24:17,400 --> 00:24:22,040 church in Spanish? Why does this resource not exist in Spanish. 390 00:24:22,640 --> 00:24:27,680 And so I think this is, this is what God has been trying to tell 391 00:24:27,800 --> 00:24:31,220 the church all these years. It's happening. You know, it's 392 00:24:31,220 --> 00:24:36,080 happening, that what he, what he was warning us, is that they are 393 00:24:36,080 --> 00:24:39,380 going to try to shut that voice down. They are going to try to 394 00:24:39,380 --> 00:24:43,120 shut that people, that people group down. And so I think, I 395 00:24:43,120 --> 00:24:46,780 think it's an important time in our as Christians to pay 396 00:24:46,780 --> 00:24:50,680 attention to what is happening in our country, the United 397 00:24:50,680 --> 00:24:55,120 States, to help them understand that they need to rise up to 398 00:24:55,120 --> 00:24:58,300 this location, that they need to fight back for this you know 399 00:24:58,300 --> 00:25:02,340 that they need to not. Shut that voice down. Because what if you 400 00:25:02,340 --> 00:25:07,260 shut the Spanish speaking church down the voice? It's the Lord's 401 00:25:07,320 --> 00:25:11,880 work that is getting shut down. It's not our work. It's not our 402 00:25:11,940 --> 00:25:16,140 economy or our goodness, or whatever you wanted to say. It's 403 00:25:16,200 --> 00:25:20,180 literally the church being shut down. Two I think the way that 404 00:25:20,180 --> 00:25:24,920 we're trying to prepare churches here is just, I really believe 405 00:25:24,980 --> 00:25:30,020 it's a great it was crazy when 2024 ended, and 2025 stars, and 406 00:25:30,020 --> 00:25:33,380 we see the shift happening, and we are actually in Mexico City 407 00:25:33,380 --> 00:25:39,080 at such a time as this, right? That we are a couple of Mexican 408 00:25:39,200 --> 00:25:44,140 or Latin American American kids from the US that know both 409 00:25:44,140 --> 00:25:48,520 languages, that both cultures are within us. We are just as 410 00:25:48,520 --> 00:25:53,380 Chicagoan as just as we are, you know, Mexican or Guatemalan, in 411 00:25:53,380 --> 00:25:56,800 my case, for God to bring people, and we keep seeing more 412 00:25:56,800 --> 00:26:01,860 people like us that were raised in the United States with our 413 00:26:01,860 --> 00:26:07,440 Hispanic roots and language never lost that are in in the 414 00:26:07,440 --> 00:26:10,620 city, and so we keep meeting different people from different 415 00:26:10,620 --> 00:26:14,760 places of the United States that have migrated here for whatever, 416 00:26:14,820 --> 00:26:17,280 whatever their reason is, whether it's for business, 417 00:26:17,280 --> 00:26:22,940 whether it's political, whether it's for our work as ministers, 418 00:26:23,360 --> 00:26:26,240 but I think God has strategically placed people like 419 00:26:26,240 --> 00:26:31,880 us here to help us receive those people that will be brought to 420 00:26:31,880 --> 00:26:35,540 the United to Latin America from the United States. And so I 421 00:26:35,540 --> 00:26:38,960 think that was a great eye opener for us, when we start 422 00:26:38,960 --> 00:26:43,120 seeing how things are changing and happening back home, and how 423 00:26:43,120 --> 00:26:49,000 we're here for this season. And every pastor that I talk to is, 424 00:26:49,000 --> 00:26:52,540 hey, you need to prepare. There's going to be people from 425 00:26:52,540 --> 00:26:56,020 the United States coming that are going to need a church as 426 00:26:56,020 --> 00:27:00,840 well, and some of these people don't know Spanish. So how do we 427 00:27:00,840 --> 00:27:01,380 prepare for 428 00:27:01,380 --> 00:27:04,500 Jessie Cruickshank: that? It sounds like the kindness of God 429 00:27:04,500 --> 00:27:09,240 in the midst of the craziness of humanity, what is keeping your 430 00:27:09,300 --> 00:27:13,740 faith up? What is keeping your I don't know, joy, maybe even if 431 00:27:13,740 --> 00:27:16,080 you get to experience some of that. But like, what is 432 00:27:16,080 --> 00:27:19,740 encouraging you and what is what is keeping your head lifted? 433 00:27:20,040 --> 00:27:23,420 Because whenever we experience injustice, whenever a whole 434 00:27:23,420 --> 00:27:27,440 people group is dehumanized, like we all feel that, right, 435 00:27:27,440 --> 00:27:32,180 there's, there's a secondary trauma to that. And I just worry 436 00:27:32,180 --> 00:27:36,320 about, you know, yeah, it may not be happening to you, but 437 00:27:36,320 --> 00:27:39,680 it's but it's happening in your community, in Chicago or or, you 438 00:27:39,680 --> 00:27:42,640 know, when you're when a people group is vilified or dehumanized 439 00:27:43,900 --> 00:27:47,320 that affects everybody. So how are you maintaining 440 00:27:47,380 --> 00:27:51,520 encouragement and in in the Lord and or even not in the Lord? 441 00:27:51,520 --> 00:27:53,980 Maybe it's just you go on a walk and like, you know nature is 442 00:27:53,980 --> 00:27:56,680 beautiful or something like that. It doesn't have to be 443 00:27:56,680 --> 00:28:01,140 allowed to be hyper spiritual, but, but I think is, as in the 444 00:28:01,140 --> 00:28:05,520 United States, the the pain that some communities are feeling is 445 00:28:05,520 --> 00:28:08,940 extremely profound, and in some communities it hasn't reached it 446 00:28:09,000 --> 00:28:12,060 there yet, right? So, so it's not, not everyone in the United 447 00:28:12,060 --> 00:28:16,740 States right now is experiencing the moment the same, but it will 448 00:28:16,740 --> 00:28:21,560 eventually get everywhere. And so maybe, it's a prophetic word 449 00:28:21,680 --> 00:28:24,920 that you know you have today, that whenever somebody listens 450 00:28:24,920 --> 00:28:27,740 to this, they're like, oh, that's the thing I needed to to 451 00:28:27,740 --> 00:28:31,700 hear, because I didn't feel the pain in in April when we're 452 00:28:31,700 --> 00:28:35,300 recording this. But you know when I'm listening to it now you 453 00:28:35,300 --> 00:28:40,300 know that that that wave has has finally reached my house. How do 454 00:28:40,300 --> 00:28:44,920 you guys stay out of discouragement or remind 455 00:28:44,920 --> 00:28:47,440 yourselves of the Lord and all of this? 456 00:28:47,620 --> 00:28:51,340 Unknown: Yeah, it is very personal. It does affect our 457 00:28:51,340 --> 00:28:55,780 families. You know it is something that we do fear for 458 00:28:55,780 --> 00:29:01,380 some family members, and we do get afraid for them, we know 459 00:29:01,380 --> 00:29:06,960 that there's life be beyond the United States. And so we try to 460 00:29:06,960 --> 00:29:11,880 encourage some of our family that Jesus is still king. And no 461 00:29:11,880 --> 00:29:16,380 matter where the no matter where we're at and no matter who's on 462 00:29:16,380 --> 00:29:20,840 platform or on offices, Jesus is still king. We are still his, 463 00:29:20,900 --> 00:29:25,160 and so we he will still provide for us. And there is a world 464 00:29:25,160 --> 00:29:29,060 outside of the United States, and it is just as beautiful and 465 00:29:29,060 --> 00:29:33,740 just as amazing and just as plentiful in different areas. 466 00:29:34,160 --> 00:29:39,200 And so I, I have a few very, very close family members that I 467 00:29:39,200 --> 00:29:42,820 have to remind, hey, everything that we learned in the United 468 00:29:42,820 --> 00:29:45,820 States, we could take it to everywhere else. And these are 469 00:29:45,820 --> 00:29:49,960 resources that we were given for maybe a time like this. And so 470 00:29:49,960 --> 00:29:54,220 it's okay if there's fear and uncertainty, but there is, there 471 00:29:54,220 --> 00:29:57,940 is a lord that still prepares us and still takes care of us. And 472 00:29:57,940 --> 00:30:03,960 I think for me to stay, uh. Um, okay, I have to avoid many, many 473 00:30:03,960 --> 00:30:07,980 outlets that just make me feel unloved and uncared and unwanted 474 00:30:07,980 --> 00:30:13,080 and visible and and vilified, you know. And so the most 475 00:30:13,080 --> 00:30:17,400 important outlet that I need to be plugging into is my word and 476 00:30:17,400 --> 00:30:22,400 my prayer life to remind me who God says I am, and I am not 477 00:30:22,400 --> 00:30:25,280 second classes then or a minority anything. There's 478 00:30:25,280 --> 00:30:28,760 nothing minor about me. Everything's pretty major in me. 479 00:30:29,300 --> 00:30:33,740 So I have to always kind of remind me and others what the 480 00:30:33,740 --> 00:30:38,120 Lord says, who we who he says we are, and no matter who, who's 481 00:30:38,240 --> 00:30:44,080 who can say all the things that they say, it doesn't affect me, 482 00:30:44,140 --> 00:30:47,620 because I know who I am in Christ. And so that's probably 483 00:30:47,620 --> 00:30:50,260 the message that I would want to let others know, is, hey, 484 00:30:50,920 --> 00:30:55,840 remember who he says you are, and He is eternal. He's not just 485 00:30:55,840 --> 00:30:59,920 for a term. He has no terms, and he has no time limits. He is 486 00:30:59,920 --> 00:31:04,080 eternal. And he says, I am this. And so that's a great reminder 487 00:31:04,080 --> 00:31:07,740 for me. So I do need this reminder as well, but it's a 488 00:31:07,740 --> 00:31:10,620 reminder that I also share with others so good 489 00:31:12,060 --> 00:31:16,800 I think also like for me, are remembering that God uses every 490 00:31:16,800 --> 00:31:20,660 season and he brings out specific purpose and plans that 491 00:31:20,660 --> 00:31:25,100 need to come to past, and it requires being having seasons 492 00:31:25,100 --> 00:31:29,840 that are challenging or difficult for some understanding 493 00:31:29,840 --> 00:31:34,460 that there's there's always purpose in the midst of it, and 494 00:31:34,460 --> 00:31:37,460 remembering that God continues to be in control, even though it 495 00:31:37,460 --> 00:31:41,740 doesn't seem like things are in control By by God, he always is 496 00:31:41,740 --> 00:31:46,900 in control, yeah, and asking the right questions, as far as like, 497 00:31:46,900 --> 00:31:51,040 How can I be a part of that? How can I do my part? How? What is 498 00:31:51,040 --> 00:31:57,040 God wanting for me right now, in this season, for my church, to 499 00:31:57,040 --> 00:32:00,060 serve my church, to lead my church to, you know, or just be 500 00:32:00,060 --> 00:32:04,080 part of a church or anything, or part of my community, part of my 501 00:32:04,080 --> 00:32:08,340 family, that's that's a good reminder that for me, it drives 502 00:32:08,340 --> 00:32:14,100 me to push through the difficult circumstances that we may be in. 503 00:32:14,700 --> 00:32:18,180 And you know, there's going to come a time where we look back 504 00:32:18,180 --> 00:32:21,740 and we'll realize, oh, wow, we've done all this or this, 505 00:32:21,920 --> 00:32:24,620 this much has been accomplished, even though we didn't feel like 506 00:32:24,620 --> 00:32:27,740 it in the midst of it, there will come a time where we kind 507 00:32:27,740 --> 00:32:32,240 of look back and be like, yes, we endured, where we remain 508 00:32:32,240 --> 00:32:36,920 faithful and we, you know, continued on whatever specific 509 00:32:37,340 --> 00:32:41,920 responsibility, role, journey, you Know, assignment that God 510 00:32:41,920 --> 00:32:43,180 had for us in seasons, 511 00:32:43,420 --> 00:32:45,400 Jessie Cruickshank: whether it's us that listen to this later or 512 00:32:45,400 --> 00:32:48,520 anyone else like in the moment. I really believe it's going to 513 00:32:48,520 --> 00:32:53,440 be a word to somebody of encouragement. Thank you. We 514 00:32:53,500 --> 00:32:59,140 hope so to bring it back. One last question, as we've, as 515 00:32:59,140 --> 00:33:03,420 we've kind of set the landscape of what your missional work is, 516 00:33:03,420 --> 00:33:06,900 the equipping work that you do, the broadness of it, and then 517 00:33:06,900 --> 00:33:10,980 the cultural moment that it finds itself in. How do you see 518 00:33:10,980 --> 00:33:15,480 God using both of those things to help the Hispanic church 519 00:33:15,480 --> 00:33:18,900 multiply? Because with the Spanish speaking churches that 520 00:33:18,900 --> 00:33:23,000 I've worked with, usually you have to be 60 before you finally 521 00:33:23,000 --> 00:33:27,860 get the in the leadership role, right? Like, like, it's the only 522 00:33:27,860 --> 00:33:31,700 way that it multiplies through, you know, having kids and 523 00:33:31,700 --> 00:33:34,700 beautiful family, you know, dynamics. But there's not 524 00:33:34,700 --> 00:33:41,500 really, like, leadership gaps. It values the wisdom of age. So 525 00:33:41,560 --> 00:33:44,920 bringing these things together, how do you see how the Lord is 526 00:33:44,920 --> 00:33:50,260 going to multiply the Hispanic church in the United States and 527 00:33:50,620 --> 00:33:52,360 across the rest of America? 528 00:33:53,440 --> 00:33:56,920 Unknown: Yeah, I mean the Hispanics just multiply more 529 00:33:56,920 --> 00:34:04,200 than in general. Biologically, we multiply more. So even if we 530 00:34:04,200 --> 00:34:07,080 look at statistics and geographic ground right now, I 531 00:34:07,080 --> 00:34:12,600 think three out of four people under 20 or under 18, three out 532 00:34:12,600 --> 00:34:15,240 of four are Latinos. Can you think about that for a moment, 533 00:34:15,420 --> 00:34:21,200 75% of people under have over under 18. So I think in just 534 00:34:21,200 --> 00:34:25,580 physically or biologically, that's gonna happen. But I think 535 00:34:25,580 --> 00:34:30,740 just the drive that the Latino church brings, and in Latin 536 00:34:30,740 --> 00:34:35,000 America, multiplication has happened more. And even the 537 00:34:35,000 --> 00:34:37,940 story is not told in the US, which is because the US you 538 00:34:37,940 --> 00:34:42,100 know, the church, you know, they have been, they focus on the 539 00:34:42,100 --> 00:34:47,860 USA, right? So I truly believe that as the Latino demographic 540 00:34:47,860 --> 00:34:51,100 continues to grow, because it will, there are, there will be, 541 00:34:51,400 --> 00:34:54,580 and there are, right now, some bumps along the way, along the 542 00:34:54,580 --> 00:34:58,480 road, but I think we're going to see more and more younger 543 00:34:58,480 --> 00:35:02,520 leaders. You're saying. Yeah, the reality is still older 544 00:35:02,520 --> 00:35:06,480 majority. You know, 80% of the churches are probably leaders 545 00:35:06,480 --> 00:35:10,320 under over 60. But this next generation, this new generation, 546 00:35:10,500 --> 00:35:14,640 younger millennials, Gen Z or older Gen Zers that are starting 547 00:35:14,640 --> 00:35:17,700 to plant churches, they're planting and reproducing at 548 00:35:17,700 --> 00:35:21,860 higher rates than the previous generation. So for instance, we 549 00:35:21,980 --> 00:35:25,520 literally just had a meeting, coffee meeting, with a couple 550 00:35:25,520 --> 00:35:29,600 young, young church planters. Couple during their early 30s, 551 00:35:29,780 --> 00:35:33,560 they planted in pandemic, and they've already planted a couple 552 00:35:33,560 --> 00:35:37,340 churches. And there's actually some research that shows that 553 00:35:37,340 --> 00:35:41,260 younger leaders, or leaders under 40, pastors under 40, I 554 00:35:41,260 --> 00:35:47,020 think there's 85% of pastors under 40 say that part of their 555 00:35:47,020 --> 00:35:51,520 goals as a pastor in church is to be a reproducing church. So 556 00:35:52,120 --> 00:35:56,260 as you know, more younger leaders become the majority. 557 00:35:56,260 --> 00:36:00,540 It'll take time, right? But I think we're gonna see a shift in 558 00:36:00,540 --> 00:36:05,580 the health of the church, where we're actually multiplying more, 559 00:36:05,700 --> 00:36:08,640 and then we're starting to see a younger set of, you know, 560 00:36:08,640 --> 00:36:13,620 overall leadership that will eventually kind of be the 561 00:36:13,680 --> 00:36:17,580 majority of leadership. And it's a shift that we really need to 562 00:36:17,580 --> 00:36:18,540 be honest, because 563 00:36:18,540 --> 00:36:21,320 it's a shift we're seeing already. I think we're moving 564 00:36:21,320 --> 00:36:23,780 that direction. Yeah, I think we're seeing already, at least 565 00:36:23,780 --> 00:36:26,720 in our circles, a lot of the a lot of the people that we've 566 00:36:26,720 --> 00:36:31,580 been speaking with and learning from Mexico context, they're all 567 00:36:31,820 --> 00:36:36,200 in their 40s or younger. It's been kind of, it's been rare to 568 00:36:36,260 --> 00:36:40,100 in Mexico. In the United States, a different story in Mexico, 569 00:36:40,100 --> 00:36:43,900 because they are a little more ahead than the Spanish speaking 570 00:36:43,900 --> 00:36:47,740 church. In the US, we do see a lot more younger leaders. And 571 00:36:47,740 --> 00:36:50,980 it's very rare for me to sit with a 60 year old or a 50 year 572 00:36:50,980 --> 00:36:55,240 old. Even here in Mexico, in the United States, a very different 573 00:36:55,240 --> 00:36:58,540 story. Yeah, in Mexico and in Latin America, we've seen more 574 00:36:58,540 --> 00:37:03,960 younger leaders than than than older leaders, more seasoned 575 00:37:03,960 --> 00:37:07,380 leaders, right? This is a value. I'm approaching that season. 576 00:37:09,120 --> 00:37:11,160 Jessie Cruickshank: And are they doing it with the blessing of 577 00:37:11,160 --> 00:37:14,040 the older generation? Are they not? Is it not creating a 578 00:37:14,040 --> 00:37:14,880 generational gap? 579 00:37:15,060 --> 00:37:18,360 Unknown: It's getting there. I don't think we're, we're fully 580 00:37:18,360 --> 00:37:23,360 there yet. I think less than, you know, I mean, less than 50% 581 00:37:23,720 --> 00:37:27,680 of of those younger leaders that are planting are with the 582 00:37:27,680 --> 00:37:30,920 blessing of their previous generation. And part of it is 583 00:37:30,920 --> 00:37:34,220 just that red generational gap, that traditional mindset of how 584 00:37:34,220 --> 00:37:36,860 to start a church, you have to wait. You're saying, You're 585 00:37:36,860 --> 00:37:39,980 right on. You know, they have to wait until they've paid their 586 00:37:40,040 --> 00:37:44,440 their dues in leadership, and then once the current pastor is 587 00:37:44,440 --> 00:37:48,820 ready to, you know, go to God's glory in heaven for eternity, 588 00:37:48,880 --> 00:37:50,920 Jessie Cruickshank: not retire. That's not a thing. That's not a 589 00:37:50,920 --> 00:37:52,960 thing. Not retired, that's 590 00:37:52,960 --> 00:37:54,640 Unknown: not a thing, yeah, 591 00:37:55,000 --> 00:37:56,680 so we don't know how to retire, 592 00:37:58,720 --> 00:38:03,480 yeah? So I think slowly, we'll start getting there, but we're 593 00:38:03,480 --> 00:38:05,280 not there yet. No, 594 00:38:05,520 --> 00:38:09,000 but there is a passion in this generation, I think because they 595 00:38:09,000 --> 00:38:16,140 are, what we do see a lot is, is we're tired of that, and people 596 00:38:16,140 --> 00:38:19,680 are losing their salvation. They're not. We're not reaching 597 00:38:19,680 --> 00:38:22,340 these people. We're not. We're not going to these people. We're 598 00:38:22,340 --> 00:38:26,180 not We're not accepting or inviting the people that need to 599 00:38:26,180 --> 00:38:30,920 be looking we need to be serving and looking for and we need to 600 00:38:30,920 --> 00:38:36,620 be aggressive in our way of finding lost people that need 601 00:38:36,740 --> 00:38:41,140 the Lord. And this is why we have this generation, I think of 602 00:38:41,140 --> 00:38:45,220 just the passionate younger leaders that are not going to 603 00:38:45,220 --> 00:38:47,980 wait till they paid their dues. They have work to do, and they 604 00:38:47,980 --> 00:38:51,880 feel this, this need to do this work. And so, yeah, that's 605 00:38:51,880 --> 00:38:55,720 inspiring, and it completely like, makes me Okay, we have 606 00:38:55,720 --> 00:39:01,320 work to do. You know, we cannot wait until we get the blessing 607 00:39:01,680 --> 00:39:04,860 that's that's how I feel, like they're like, we need to do this 608 00:39:04,860 --> 00:39:09,540 now, with or without the blessing, which is sad for the 609 00:39:09,600 --> 00:39:13,140 older generation and the younger generation and those and so that 610 00:39:13,200 --> 00:39:17,520 that opens up a space for there's a need for mentorship, 611 00:39:17,520 --> 00:39:19,860 there's a need for pastors, there's a Need for these 612 00:39:19,860 --> 00:39:23,840 spiritual parents. And so these older generation that do believe 613 00:39:23,840 --> 00:39:27,200 in this younger generation, we need to open up ourselves also 614 00:39:27,560 --> 00:39:30,740 to help these younger generation do the work that the Lord has 615 00:39:30,740 --> 00:39:31,400 put upon their 616 00:39:31,400 --> 00:39:34,220 Jessie Cruickshank: heart. Yeah, that's so good and a bit more 617 00:39:34,220 --> 00:39:37,400 focused and intentional development, rather than just, 618 00:39:37,400 --> 00:39:40,040 you know, watch me and come alongside me for a long time. 619 00:39:40,040 --> 00:39:44,080 We're gonna a little bit of an acceleration. Well, you guys, 620 00:39:44,080 --> 00:39:48,280 it's such a beautiful work that you do. And I'm a huge fan, I 621 00:39:48,280 --> 00:39:52,120 mean, to talk to you across you know, Brazil, I have a huge 622 00:39:52,120 --> 00:39:54,700 passion for justice, and the United States being the second 623 00:39:54,700 --> 00:39:59,440 largest Spanish speaking nation in the world, and I speak 624 00:39:59,440 --> 00:40:03,180 Spanish. Super poorly, but I've been just across South America 625 00:40:03,180 --> 00:40:07,800 so much and man, I mean, there's you just fall in love with the 626 00:40:07,800 --> 00:40:13,200 people group and and so for me, that's, yeah, that's kind of 627 00:40:13,200 --> 00:40:17,880 where why I come at this with a bit of passion. So 628 00:40:18,780 --> 00:40:22,100 Unknown: we thank you also. I think this is a huge step for 629 00:40:22,100 --> 00:40:25,700 you and for us to be able to talk about these things, and for 630 00:40:25,700 --> 00:40:28,940 you to open up spaces for the Spanish speaking church, for 631 00:40:28,940 --> 00:40:32,300 exponential Espanol, for how it what are some of the things? How 632 00:40:32,300 --> 00:40:34,940 are we multiplying our churches? But also, how are we coming 633 00:40:34,940 --> 00:40:38,060 along so side those people that are vulnerable in this 634 00:40:38,060 --> 00:40:43,120 situation, these in this season and these conversations need to 635 00:40:43,120 --> 00:40:47,320 happen. And we thank you also for opening up the space to talk 636 00:40:47,320 --> 00:40:50,980 about the Spanish speaking church. And we're, of course, 637 00:40:50,980 --> 00:40:55,180 the big fan of yours too. It's a mutual we 638 00:40:57,280 --> 00:41:00,660 Jessie Cruickshank: can move each other back. I feel like my 639 00:41:00,660 --> 00:41:03,720 Gen Z assistant, you know, said she was in her first 640 00:41:03,720 --> 00:41:06,600 conversation where someone was like, Hey, I like you as a 641 00:41:06,600 --> 00:41:09,300 friend. Do you like me as a friend back? And it was her 642 00:41:09,300 --> 00:41:13,140 first one of those as an adult. And I'm like, Oh honey, we just 643 00:41:13,140 --> 00:41:15,720 keep having those. Oh yeah, 644 00:41:16,620 --> 00:41:20,300 Unknown: we need that. Well, we need to tear each other on, you 645 00:41:20,300 --> 00:41:25,820 know, it's different spaces and different angles to the church, 646 00:41:26,360 --> 00:41:29,840 but we need to have these spaces to talk about them. And there's 647 00:41:29,840 --> 00:41:32,240 other, you know, there's other things going on in the world as 648 00:41:32,240 --> 00:41:35,120 well that we need to be learning about. And so, yeah, thank you 649 00:41:35,120 --> 00:41:38,000 for this time. I appreciate it so much. Well, you guys 650 00:41:38,000 --> 00:41:40,300 Jessie Cruickshank: are beautiful, and Thanks for Thanks 651 00:41:40,300 --> 00:41:42,760 for Thanks for coming on and sharing your heart and being a 652 00:41:42,760 --> 00:41:44,920 little candid, a little vulnerable. 653 00:41:46,360 --> 00:41:47,320 Unknown: He's beautiful. 654 00:41:48,520 --> 00:41:49,960 Jessie Cruickshank: That's because he grabs the beard. 655 00:41:51,700 --> 00:41:54,640 Unknown: Yeah, yeah, it's the beard. Excuse me, a little 656 00:41:54,640 --> 00:41:56,320 Jessie Cruickshank: bit of my husband has a beer, but he's 657 00:41:56,320 --> 00:41:59,200 Scottish, so it's all like scraggly. There's nothing 658 00:41:59,200 --> 00:42:00,640 elegant about it. It's, 659 00:42:01,840 --> 00:42:07,680 Unknown: oh, there's way to fix that, grooming it. 660 00:42:09,300 --> 00:42:11,340 Jessie Cruickshank: Oh, man. Well, thank you so much for 661 00:42:11,340 --> 00:42:15,120 being with us today. I super appreciate, yes, who you are and 662 00:42:15,120 --> 00:42:19,020 what you do, and you are in my prayers. And if you're listening 663 00:42:19,020 --> 00:42:22,280 to this, will you please pray for the Spanish speaking church 664 00:42:22,280 --> 00:42:26,720 across the Americas, north, south and central because they 665 00:42:26,720 --> 00:42:27,920 need your prayers right now. 666 00:42:28,760 --> 00:42:31,940 Unknown: Thank you very much. Also for our Spanish church in 667 00:42:31,940 --> 00:42:38,060 Spain, they are going through a beautiful I think the Lord is 668 00:42:38,060 --> 00:42:41,200 just like, Nope, I'm not losing them too. So he's sending so 669 00:42:41,200 --> 00:42:44,860 many missionaries from Latin America to Spain, which is a 670 00:42:44,860 --> 00:42:49,780 beautiful picture that the Lord is giving us. You know that no 671 00:42:49,780 --> 00:42:52,420 one's left behind. So, yeah, so thankful for that. 672 00:42:52,420 --> 00:42:55,120 Thank you for that. Thank you, Jesse for having us. We've 673 00:42:55,120 --> 00:42:58,720 enjoyed this time. And yeah, thank you. Hopefully this 674 00:42:58,720 --> 00:43:02,220 conversation is helpful to anyone who's listening right 675 00:43:02,220 --> 00:43:02,400 now, 676 00:43:02,640 --> 00:43:03,840 Jessie Cruickshank: well, you have been listening to the 677 00:43:03,840 --> 00:43:07,080 ordinary discipleship podcast. Remember, you can always learn 678 00:43:07,080 --> 00:43:14,100 more@huology.co that's W, H, O, o, l, o, G, y.co. Dot.