Jessie Cruickshank: Welcome to the ordinary discipleship
Podcast. I'm Jesse Cruikshank, and we love to talk about how
people are responding to the call of God on their life. If
you are unsure if God is asking you to do something, then this
is the episode for you. So I have Jacqueline and obey
Arellano, and we are going to talk today about their life as
ministers in Mexico, and just the things that God is doing in
Mexico, in the in in the ministry that they're working
with. So they have experience all over the world. They're
going to share a little bit about that as well. Jacqueline,
Ove so happy to have you on today. Thank you for being with
Jacqueline Arellano: us. Thank you very much for having us.
Thank you so much for having us. Well, ladies, first always. My
name is Jacqueline Arellano, and I serve with exponential
Espanol. We have been serving with exponential USA since about
2010 ish 11, and so we now have founded. OB has founded
exponential Espanol in 2020. Yeah,
Jessie Cruickshank: it's a great year to found something, isn't
it? Let me start a new ministry. It's funny. Yeah, it was, it
Obe Arellano: was a great year. It was actually because things
were just low. It was just a good year to focus on getting
it, getting it off the ground. Yeah. OB, you know, leading
exponential spaniel together, lead exponential Spaniel, and
it's been great the last five years being on this adventure
helping churches, helping Hispanic or Spanish speaking
churches, be able to to go beyond addition into
reproduction and multiplication of churches. So that's the area
of ministry that we're
Jessie Cruickshank: in, yeah. So for those of the audience that
don't know what exponential is, just say a little bit more about
the becoming five, and just give them a little idea of what the
church planting or the church multiplication paradigm is. So
Unknown: yeah. So the exponentials mission is to see
that multiplication of churches becomes like the measure of
success, so that more churches can become church planting
churches, and be able to reach more people. There's five
levels. Exponential has done research, and we've discovered
there's five levels of churches, and I'll briefly go through
them, level one or level churches that are in decline,
churches that are subtracting. So I mean, just like you know,
the level shows that churches are declining in in attendance,
in membership, in impact, in their neighborhood or community
or city. Level two is a church that is plateaued pretty much.
It's stuck. It's not growing. It's not in decline, either.
Level three are the church of addition, those are churches
that are growing, growing in numbers and impact. Level four
is a church that is reproducing, churches that are starting to
reproduce who they are, what they do, reproducing churches in
other parts of their city or state or country, wherever,
whatever whatever vision they have. And the level five
churches are the church of multiplication. Churches that
are multiplying. Level five churches are churches that are
reproducing. So level four but are reproducing to the the
fourth generation of church plants and beyond. That's,
that's what makes them a multiplying church, church that
are leaving a legacy of multiplication. There's a
percentage so 80% of the churches, 80% of the churches
are level one or level two, so in decline or plateaued. 13% are
adding or growing. 7% are reproducing and multiplying. So
level four, level five. So our mission is to see that 16% of
churches become level four, level five, reproducing or
multiplying churches. So what we do is we offer resources,
through books, through gathering experiences, spaces where
leaders can be poured into sharing resources to help them
leaders become multiplying leaders that help their churches
become multiplying churches.
Jessie Cruickshank: I love it. And so you guys are doing that
work now in Mexico,
Unknown: right? So, um, yes, yes. Ish. Tell
Jessie Cruickshank: us about that. Tell us about how there's
a journey we're on. Yes.
Unknown: So we have been serving the Spanish speaking church for
the past four years. That's fully been our concentration is
the Spanish speaking five years now in the United States. And so
in the end of last year, we made the move to Mexico City, so we
can strategically be positioned in Latin America to expand now
to Latin America. So everything that we have learned through
exponential USA, and then also through the work that we've been
doing through exponential Espanol, now we're trying to see
how we expand into Latin America. And so that's where
we're at right now. We are starting off the year trying to
meet and. Be in spaces where we get to meet more Latin American
leaders that are passionate about multiplication as well. So
that way we can continue growing and bringing the resources that
we have accumulated for the few years, the past few years, to
Latin America. Yeah. So here we are in Mexico City, in
Mexico City, like you mentioned, strategic, because it is a hub
that is connected to every country in Central and South
America, including Mexico that's in North America. But we can, we
can go to any major city of any country in Latin America. And
also we can, because we're still serving in the US. Exponential
Spaniel is still doing work in the US for the Hispanic churches
in the USA. I'm
Jessie Cruickshank: glad you didn't abandon us, not at all,
not just expanded. You expanded
Unknown: your tent. That's what that's all we're doing. Expanded
our tent. Yeah, we're expanding. We're still committed to the
Hispanic church in the US. That's not changing. So from
Mexico City, strategically, we can go to anywhere in Latin
America, in South America and Central America, but also we can
go to any major city, and we're as connected, sorry, in the US,
we're as connected as if we were living in in the US. Still. So,
so it's strategic. Why also Mexico City?
Jessie Cruickshank: No, no, that totally makes sense. So my
question that, like the first one that comes up is, what do
you find that's translating well, because it feels like,
wow, that is a universal struggle or paradigm or
learning, regardless of what country you're in or what people
group you're working with, and then what are you finding that
seems a bit more contextualized? You're like, wow, okay, that's
the thing that they're dealing with the Hispanic churches or
Spanish speaking churches are dealing with in nor in, you
know, the United States, but it doesn't really transfer that
well to, you know, some of the the more rural parts of Central
and South America. Or is it the cities that are the same? Is the
culture that's the same? Like, like, how are you? How are you
discerning what translates and what needs contextualization and
maybe even additional resources or specialized resources.
Unknown: It's such a complex question. I can go diff we can
go different directions. So culturally, it is very different
than the even than the Hispanic culture in the US. Even you were
saying earlier today that what's the percentage of Latinos in the
US that are immigrants from Latin America. Did you say? What
was
that so, out of the Hispanics, or Latin Americans that are in
the United States, only 33% are non US citizens
from the 65 million people Latinos that are in the US, 30%
of that are non US citizen, that are essentially immigrants from
a Latin American country. So
Jessie Cruickshank: 70% are US citizens.
Unknown: Yes, US citizen or resident. They are with legal
documentation into the in the United States. And they can be
already third, fourth generation as well. So we've been in the
United States for a few years,
Jessie Cruickshank: for a few years. I mean, I live in, I live
in the West, right? I mean, I know that the border of Mexico
came up to Pueblo Colorado, right? I mean, like, I'm aware
of our geographic history, right?
Unknown: Yeah, kind of crossed us a little. So the context for
those third, fourth and generations in the immigrant
even in the United States, is very different from immigrant
people that are coming to the United States to the people that
have been born there through generations, or were there
before even the border crossed. This is very different to what
it is in Mexico and the rest of Latin
America, and that's why I mentioned understanding a little
bit of the his the Latino context, and the subcultures
that are in the Hispanic context in the US, is necessary to
understand, or even for me to say, well, let me compare the
culture of Mexico, where we're in right now, or cities in Latin
America, to the US, because it's you can compare it. There's so
many subcultures, there's so many generations of Latinos, and
only 30% 30 Yeah, 30% are immigrants. So comparing it like
side by side, it's very difficult, right? Because also
within that 30% or even the 70% the the 65 million Hispanic
Latinos are in the US. There's every country in Latin America
represented, right? So the majority, yes, is Mexico, and
then there's a few others that have high percentages. But even
that, it's difficult to compare side by side. But as far as like
church culture goes, which is the area that we're serving in,
it's also very different. There's this weird dynamic that
I think I came to discover that I'm I don't know if it's that,
it's been proved, but at least I can observe this, and it boggles
my mind, and this, this will help understand the culture
context, difference of churches in Latin America and in the US.
So for instance. Churches, the Hispanic church in the US, the
majority of Hispanic, Spanish speaking churches, they actually
look up to their churches in Latin America, their churches
where they came from, whether it's their sending church, or
the church where they became Christians or an influential
church in Latin America, because they understand the language,
the context, all that stuff, right? But they look up to them.
And then what's happening? The dynamic is that the churches
that they're looking up to in Latin America, they are actually
looking up at the church in the US to be influenced by them.
Does that make sense?
Jessie Cruickshank: Oh, totally, totally. It's like, who's your
spiritual hero?
Unknown: These ones are being influenced by that. So in
essence, they could be looking directly to their neighbors and
learn from them, but many are not doing that. The majority are
not doing that. So that creates a huge gap between the Hispanic
church in the US. Maybe you've heard this before, the Hispanic
church in the US, and even a lot of culture is about 20 years
behind the predominant culture in the US, right? And that
because they're looking down, so there's a delay. And then that
the church in Latin America, it's about about 10 years behind
from the church in the US, so then that creates a bigger gap.
So that just, I mean, I don't know if I'm confusing and I'm
just going long on that, but that that just a weird dynamic
that we're seeing within the people that we're interacting
with here, but also that we've been interacting with in the US
for years, for many years now.
Jessie Cruickshank: So, so then what are you what are you
finding? Transfers? Where do you find the growth edge is? And
what are you seeing? What the You know? What are you seeing
that God is doing?
Unknown: So in what transfers, I'll let you share on what we're
seeing God do. But in the things that are transfers, well and
easy, are principle based practices or teachings, right
things that are it's more a principle rather than, Oh, let
me do it, because this is my model of how we're doing it in
the US. So exponential. We've, we've kind of, we have
simplified the the areas where we think every church needs to
focus on and multiply in those areas so that they can
experience multiplication in churches. So we try to simplify
it by creating principle, you know, based resources. So for
instance, multiplying discipleship, discipleship, it's
a it's a huge area of multiplication that we need to,
you know, address. And so that's like making disciples. And make
disciples, creating a disciple, making culture, not just a
discipleship. I feel like discipleship. It entails more
about class, classes and that type of study, yeah, spiritual
Jessie Cruickshank: disciplines and learning, right? Yeah,
Unknown: disciple making culture. It's life, doing life,
inviting others into our journey. So we, we want to have,
we want to share that, that level of principle of disciple
making. So when we talk about disciple making, it's so simple
in its essence that it can be applied in whatever context the
church is working that area. And so then when we bring that those
teachings and learnings to Mexico or Latin America, it's so
easy to be applied in its context because we're just
removing all of the models, and this church is doing that. The
church isn't that, but it's like, it's a foundational aspect
of that that makes it easy to be contextualized, right? So I
think as we simplify those, those principles of
multiplication, at least in our context, multiplying disciples,
multiplying leaders, mobilizing the church for mission and then
simplifying that, those are principle based teachings that
we share, that it makes it easy to be received by any church in
any context in Latin America, rather than like Well, let me
teach you how our church in the US was doing it. So you can do
it even though it's disciple making, but we want to teach a
model that that's what is not necessarily transferable or
contextualized.
So we have two spaces, right? The the Spanish speaking church
in the USA, and then, of course, the Latin American church. And
what I see in both spaces happening, of course, the United
States being the second largest country of Spanish speakers in
the world. What we see is, what we have seen been, been
observing and studying in the past few years, is how God is
raising up the Hispanic church in in the United States. How is
he doing that? I think we're seeing a lot of decline in this,
in the church in the United States. Unfortunately, sometimes
we we don't want to grasp that or accept that, because of how
we were founded in the United States as a is a is how we were
taught. We were founded as a church looking for the freedom
to worship, right and so, like a Christian church and so. But
what we saw in the last few years is that. The Hispanic
Church, the Spanish speaking church is is a church that is
continues to grow. We continue to grow as as believers in
Christ, and so we, we are the church it sounds so we're
amazing, but we, we are the church that's kind of raising
the bar in Christianity for United States. And so we we are
observing that, and we celebrate that, because we know that God
is doing great things through the Hispanic church. And of
course, the enemy will rise up against the Hispanics of our
country, because we are the church that is rising up to be
to be able to do the works that we're doing as Christians. We
hear so many times where we when we go, when we went to Spain a
few years ago, and we heard that so many missionaries were coming
from the Hispanic church to Spain to evangelize Spain now
and help that church be established, that that made that
was a confirmation that the Hispanic church is the church
that's rising up to spread the gospel in the United States into
other places, and so that's one of the things that we observed
as Spanish speaking church. Now, in the past few months, we're
also seeing some changes in how the Hispanic church should
prepare in our countries. You know, like the Spanish speaking
church in Latin America, is going to need to prepare for
some of the changes that are happening in the United States,
to receive all of the people that are coming. And so that's a
huge opportunity for us in Mexico and beyond to prepare our
churches to receive all the maybe undocumented and even
documented people that decide or are deported to their countries
of origin. It's a great opportunity for the church, and
I think we need to be paying attention to what's going on in
the United States, because it will affect us in in the future
as an as the church needs to prepare for all of the all of
the people that will be coming home to their native countries.
And how can we prepare for that? I think there's opportunities
for evangelism, because there's going to be some that will be
deported because of their records or whatever has happened
in their past. But there's also opportunities for many people
that are willing to make a change in their address, to come
and be the maybe the people that we use for opportunities for job
employment and help people that are already here rise and be
better equipped for the future.
Jessie Cruickshank: Yeah, I mean, the last five years,
right, post COVID, the most of the growth in Christianity in
North America was churches planted by the Hispanic Church
and the immigrant church, right? It was the most vibrant part of
the body of Christ in North America. And then in, you know,
2025 we're seeing those churches not feeling safe enough to
gather, right? So, so there. So our friends at World Relief just
sharing that of those of people getting deported, 80% are
Christian. You. You spoke so delicately, Jack, I'm gonna let
your words stand because I I would talk about it a slightly
different way, maybe with a little more higher
Unknown: Well, some people will accept the non delicate version
from you more than from me. So we've learned our lesson through
the years that the way I look sometimes portrays things very
differently than what we're all trying to say. But I have to
speak delicately well. I
Jessie Cruickshank: just want to acknowledge that. And I don't,
you know, I want to thank you for that when and for someone,
somebody else carries water again, for problems, for pain, I
just always want to acknowledge that it sounds like you're
preparing churches across Latin America to accept refugees from
the United States. You know people that they have never you
know countries that they've never been in, countries that
they haven't been raised in, even if that's what other you
know at some point documentation you know demonstrates as a
country of origin. It it sounds like you are seeing that as an
opportunity for people with no culture and no home to to
create, home to create. I mean, if anything just teaches us what
potentially Kingdom looks like, apart from what a social, you
know, national culture could look like, that's like a huge
thing you you guys, in fact, the only thing that you guys have is
a single language, right? It sounds like so many different
cultures, so many different Yes, it's, you know, the unifying
factor is Spanish. And even then, I've, I've, I've been
enough, most of South America in some of. Of the Caribbean, and
like, Spanish is not the same. No, it is not. I can. I can
understand in some nations and in some nations, I can't. How
are you processing that assignment? How are you
processing that? Are you building a team right now? How
can they pray for you? Yeah, that's great.
Unknown: I mean, can I I'll add something that's a great
question, and I think we are, we're, we're we're in the in the
process of listening to that, and how better prepared for
that, because we're in the beginning, in the beginning
phase of all the things that's happening. It's been have it's
happened before. We're not saying it's new, but the way
it's happening right now, it's aggressive, and we're listening,
we're praying. And yes, we want to build a team. We want to have
support, not just through prayer, for us to be able to
help. And we, two people in Mexico City, we're not, will not
be able to do that, but the position that we have leading
exponential Espanol, being able to equip churches to know how to
receive people that maybe don't even know the language in
Spanish, right? They only know English. How To Best equip
churches here to welcome people that are going to be not even
coming back. Some yes men, the majority, but others coming
back, coming to a country they've never been in, which is,
it boggles my mind that that's happening right now. So if I can
say prayer for that type of support to help us equip
churches better to receive people and create safe spaces
where they can journey and disciple them even during their
journey. Support for prayer, for support, financial support for
us to continue doing the trainings and gathering pastors
and leaders to be able to equip them, not just for this, but the
other work that we're doing. Those are two, two ways that
people can be praying for us. But if I can add it's really
important to understand the level of spiritual warfare that
it's happening with all of this, because going back to what Jack
says, We're not only the second largest if we were to count only
the Spanish speakers or the Latinos in the US, we would be
the second largest country, right? There's a whole other
factors that we can say that if we if we can count only the
Hispanic financials or economic economy, we would be the fifth
largest country, the fifth largest economy in the in the
world. There's already some research that that. It's telling
us that in 25 years, in 30 years, the Latinos are going to
be the largest minority, sorry, the largest geographic the group
of people in the US. I mean, if you think about that, the
Latinos will be the largest group of people. Yeah, it'll be
the majority. It will be the majority. And obviously one,
there are some people that don't like that, and they want to stop
that from happening. Hence, what is going on right now. Also you
mentioned that Christianity in the US has been in decline for
the last 25 years. A huge factor that is starting to turn that
the state of Christianity in the US is that Latino churches, the
Latino people you mentioned over the last five years, Latinos,
are the ones who have been planting more vibrant churches,
right? So the enemy, our enemy, our spiritual enemy, does not
like that. It wants to see a country in declining
Christianity. So there's going to be plans that will want to
halt that as you know as early as possible, to not see that
happening. So that level of what's going on behind just what
we see, it's good for us to be aware of knowing that there's a
greater fight that we're that we're in the midst of, beyond
just the things that we're seeing,
just the political things we have been talking about this for
a while, but I think the Hispanic church has been trying
to bring this to the attention of our English speaking only
Americans that hey, you guys need to be starting something in
Spanish. Why isn't this in Spanish? Why aren't we doing
church in Spanish? Why does this resource not exist in Spanish.
And so I think this is, this is what God has been trying to tell
the church all these years. It's happening. You know, it's
happening, that what he, what he was warning us, is that they are
going to try to shut that voice down. They are going to try to
shut that people, that people group down. And so I think, I
think it's an important time in our as Christians to pay
attention to what is happening in our country, the United
States, to help them understand that they need to rise up to
this location, that they need to fight back for this you know
that they need to not. Shut that voice down. Because what if you
shut the Spanish speaking church down the voice? It's the Lord's
work that is getting shut down. It's not our work. It's not our
economy or our goodness, or whatever you wanted to say. It's
literally the church being shut down. Two I think the way that
we're trying to prepare churches here is just, I really believe
it's a great it was crazy when 2024 ended, and 2025 stars, and
we see the shift happening, and we are actually in Mexico City
at such a time as this, right? That we are a couple of Mexican
or Latin American American kids from the US that know both
languages, that both cultures are within us. We are just as
Chicagoan as just as we are, you know, Mexican or Guatemalan, in
my case, for God to bring people, and we keep seeing more
people like us that were raised in the United States with our
Hispanic roots and language never lost that are in in the
city, and so we keep meeting different people from different
places of the United States that have migrated here for whatever,
whatever their reason is, whether it's for business,
whether it's political, whether it's for our work as ministers,
but I think God has strategically placed people like
us here to help us receive those people that will be brought to
the United to Latin America from the United States. And so I
think that was a great eye opener for us, when we start
seeing how things are changing and happening back home, and how
we're here for this season. And every pastor that I talk to is,
hey, you need to prepare. There's going to be people from
the United States coming that are going to need a church as
well, and some of these people don't know Spanish. So how do we
prepare for
Jessie Cruickshank: that? It sounds like the kindness of God
in the midst of the craziness of humanity, what is keeping your
faith up? What is keeping your I don't know, joy, maybe even if
you get to experience some of that. But like, what is
encouraging you and what is what is keeping your head lifted?
Because whenever we experience injustice, whenever a whole
people group is dehumanized, like we all feel that, right,
there's, there's a secondary trauma to that. And I just worry
about, you know, yeah, it may not be happening to you, but
it's but it's happening in your community, in Chicago or or, you
know, when you're when a people group is vilified or dehumanized
that affects everybody. So how are you maintaining
encouragement and in in the Lord and or even not in the Lord?
Maybe it's just you go on a walk and like, you know nature is
beautiful or something like that. It doesn't have to be
allowed to be hyper spiritual, but, but I think is, as in the
United States, the the pain that some communities are feeling is
extremely profound, and in some communities it hasn't reached it
there yet, right? So, so it's not, not everyone in the United
States right now is experiencing the moment the same, but it will
eventually get everywhere. And so maybe, it's a prophetic word
that you know you have today, that whenever somebody listens
to this, they're like, oh, that's the thing I needed to to
hear, because I didn't feel the pain in in April when we're
recording this. But you know when I'm listening to it now you
know that that that wave has has finally reached my house. How do
you guys stay out of discouragement or remind
yourselves of the Lord and all of this?
Unknown: Yeah, it is very personal. It does affect our
families. You know it is something that we do fear for
some family members, and we do get afraid for them, we know
that there's life be beyond the United States. And so we try to
encourage some of our family that Jesus is still king. And no
matter where the no matter where we're at and no matter who's on
platform or on offices, Jesus is still king. We are still his,
and so we he will still provide for us. And there is a world
outside of the United States, and it is just as beautiful and
just as amazing and just as plentiful in different areas.
And so I, I have a few very, very close family members that I
have to remind, hey, everything that we learned in the United
States, we could take it to everywhere else. And these are
resources that we were given for maybe a time like this. And so
it's okay if there's fear and uncertainty, but there is, there
is a lord that still prepares us and still takes care of us. And
I think for me to stay, uh. Um, okay, I have to avoid many, many
outlets that just make me feel unloved and uncared and unwanted
and visible and and vilified, you know. And so the most
important outlet that I need to be plugging into is my word and
my prayer life to remind me who God says I am, and I am not
second classes then or a minority anything. There's
nothing minor about me. Everything's pretty major in me.
So I have to always kind of remind me and others what the
Lord says, who we who he says we are, and no matter who, who's
who can say all the things that they say, it doesn't affect me,
because I know who I am in Christ. And so that's probably
the message that I would want to let others know, is, hey,
remember who he says you are, and He is eternal. He's not just
for a term. He has no terms, and he has no time limits. He is
eternal. And he says, I am this. And so that's a great reminder
for me. So I do need this reminder as well, but it's a
reminder that I also share with others so good
I think also like for me, are remembering that God uses every
season and he brings out specific purpose and plans that
need to come to past, and it requires being having seasons
that are challenging or difficult for some understanding
that there's there's always purpose in the midst of it, and
remembering that God continues to be in control, even though it
doesn't seem like things are in control By by God, he always is
in control, yeah, and asking the right questions, as far as like,
How can I be a part of that? How can I do my part? How? What is
God wanting for me right now, in this season, for my church, to
serve my church, to lead my church to, you know, or just be
part of a church or anything, or part of my community, part of my
family, that's that's a good reminder that for me, it drives
me to push through the difficult circumstances that we may be in.
And you know, there's going to come a time where we look back
and we'll realize, oh, wow, we've done all this or this,
this much has been accomplished, even though we didn't feel like
it in the midst of it, there will come a time where we kind
of look back and be like, yes, we endured, where we remain
faithful and we, you know, continued on whatever specific
responsibility, role, journey, you Know, assignment that God
had for us in seasons,
Jessie Cruickshank: whether it's us that listen to this later or
anyone else like in the moment. I really believe it's going to
be a word to somebody of encouragement. Thank you. We
hope so to bring it back. One last question, as we've, as
we've kind of set the landscape of what your missional work is,
the equipping work that you do, the broadness of it, and then
the cultural moment that it finds itself in. How do you see
God using both of those things to help the Hispanic church
multiply? Because with the Spanish speaking churches that
I've worked with, usually you have to be 60 before you finally
get the in the leadership role, right? Like, like, it's the only
way that it multiplies through, you know, having kids and
beautiful family, you know, dynamics. But there's not
really, like, leadership gaps. It values the wisdom of age. So
bringing these things together, how do you see how the Lord is
going to multiply the Hispanic church in the United States and
across the rest of America?
Unknown: Yeah, I mean the Hispanics just multiply more
than in general. Biologically, we multiply more. So even if we
look at statistics and geographic ground right now, I
think three out of four people under 20 or under 18, three out
of four are Latinos. Can you think about that for a moment,
75% of people under have over under 18. So I think in just
physically or biologically, that's gonna happen. But I think
just the drive that the Latino church brings, and in Latin
America, multiplication has happened more. And even the
story is not told in the US, which is because the US you
know, the church, you know, they have been, they focus on the
USA, right? So I truly believe that as the Latino demographic
continues to grow, because it will, there are, there will be,
and there are, right now, some bumps along the way, along the
road, but I think we're going to see more and more younger
leaders. You're saying. Yeah, the reality is still older
majority. You know, 80% of the churches are probably leaders
under over 60. But this next generation, this new generation,
younger millennials, Gen Z or older Gen Zers that are starting
to plant churches, they're planting and reproducing at
higher rates than the previous generation. So for instance, we
literally just had a meeting, coffee meeting, with a couple
young, young church planters. Couple during their early 30s,
they planted in pandemic, and they've already planted a couple
churches. And there's actually some research that shows that
younger leaders, or leaders under 40, pastors under 40, I
think there's 85% of pastors under 40 say that part of their
goals as a pastor in church is to be a reproducing church. So
as you know, more younger leaders become the majority.
It'll take time, right? But I think we're gonna see a shift in
the health of the church, where we're actually multiplying more,
and then we're starting to see a younger set of, you know,
overall leadership that will eventually kind of be the
majority of leadership. And it's a shift that we really need to
be honest, because
it's a shift we're seeing already. I think we're moving
that direction. Yeah, I think we're seeing already, at least
in our circles, a lot of the a lot of the people that we've
been speaking with and learning from Mexico context, they're all
in their 40s or younger. It's been kind of, it's been rare to
in Mexico. In the United States, a different story in Mexico,
because they are a little more ahead than the Spanish speaking
church. In the US, we do see a lot more younger leaders. And
it's very rare for me to sit with a 60 year old or a 50 year
old. Even here in Mexico, in the United States, a very different
story. Yeah, in Mexico and in Latin America, we've seen more
younger leaders than than than older leaders, more seasoned
leaders, right? This is a value. I'm approaching that season.
Jessie Cruickshank: And are they doing it with the blessing of
the older generation? Are they not? Is it not creating a
generational gap?
Unknown: It's getting there. I don't think we're, we're fully
there yet. I think less than, you know, I mean, less than 50%
of of those younger leaders that are planting are with the
blessing of their previous generation. And part of it is
just that red generational gap, that traditional mindset of how
to start a church, you have to wait. You're saying, You're
right on. You know, they have to wait until they've paid their
their dues in leadership, and then once the current pastor is
ready to, you know, go to God's glory in heaven for eternity,
Jessie Cruickshank: not retire. That's not a thing. That's not a
thing. Not retired, that's
Unknown: not a thing, yeah,
so we don't know how to retire,
yeah? So I think slowly, we'll start getting there, but we're
not there yet. No,
but there is a passion in this generation, I think because they
are, what we do see a lot is, is we're tired of that, and people
are losing their salvation. They're not. We're not reaching
these people. We're not. We're not going to these people. We're
not We're not accepting or inviting the people that need to
be looking we need to be serving and looking for and we need to
be aggressive in our way of finding lost people that need
the Lord. And this is why we have this generation, I think of
just the passionate younger leaders that are not going to
wait till they paid their dues. They have work to do, and they
feel this, this need to do this work. And so, yeah, that's
inspiring, and it completely like, makes me Okay, we have
work to do. You know, we cannot wait until we get the blessing
that's that's how I feel, like they're like, we need to do this
now, with or without the blessing, which is sad for the
older generation and the younger generation and those and so that
that opens up a space for there's a need for mentorship,
there's a need for pastors, there's a Need for these
spiritual parents. And so these older generation that do believe
in this younger generation, we need to open up ourselves also
to help these younger generation do the work that the Lord has
put upon their
Jessie Cruickshank: heart. Yeah, that's so good and a bit more
focused and intentional development, rather than just,
you know, watch me and come alongside me for a long time.
We're gonna a little bit of an acceleration. Well, you guys,
it's such a beautiful work that you do. And I'm a huge fan, I
mean, to talk to you across you know, Brazil, I have a huge
passion for justice, and the United States being the second
largest Spanish speaking nation in the world, and I speak
Spanish. Super poorly, but I've been just across South America
so much and man, I mean, there's you just fall in love with the
people group and and so for me, that's, yeah, that's kind of
where why I come at this with a bit of passion. So
Unknown: we thank you also. I think this is a huge step for
you and for us to be able to talk about these things, and for
you to open up spaces for the Spanish speaking church, for
exponential Espanol, for how it what are some of the things? How
are we multiplying our churches? But also, how are we coming
along so side those people that are vulnerable in this
situation, these in this season and these conversations need to
happen. And we thank you also for opening up the space to talk
about the Spanish speaking church. And we're, of course,
the big fan of yours too. It's a mutual we
Jessie Cruickshank: can move each other back. I feel like my
Gen Z assistant, you know, said she was in her first
conversation where someone was like, Hey, I like you as a
friend. Do you like me as a friend back? And it was her
first one of those as an adult. And I'm like, Oh honey, we just
keep having those. Oh yeah,
Unknown: we need that. Well, we need to tear each other on, you
know, it's different spaces and different angles to the church,
but we need to have these spaces to talk about them. And there's
other, you know, there's other things going on in the world as
well that we need to be learning about. And so, yeah, thank you
for this time. I appreciate it so much. Well, you guys
Jessie Cruickshank: are beautiful, and Thanks for Thanks
for Thanks for coming on and sharing your heart and being a
little candid, a little vulnerable.
Unknown: He's beautiful.
Jessie Cruickshank: That's because he grabs the beard.
Unknown: Yeah, yeah, it's the beard. Excuse me, a little
Jessie Cruickshank: bit of my husband has a beer, but he's
Scottish, so it's all like scraggly. There's nothing
elegant about it. It's,
Unknown: oh, there's way to fix that, grooming it.
Jessie Cruickshank: Oh, man. Well, thank you so much for
being with us today. I super appreciate, yes, who you are and
what you do, and you are in my prayers. And if you're listening
to this, will you please pray for the Spanish speaking church
across the Americas, north, south and central because they
need your prayers right now.
Unknown: Thank you very much. Also for our Spanish church in
Spain, they are going through a beautiful I think the Lord is
just like, Nope, I'm not losing them too. So he's sending so
many missionaries from Latin America to Spain, which is a
beautiful picture that the Lord is giving us. You know that no
one's left behind. So, yeah, so thankful for that.
Thank you for that. Thank you, Jesse for having us. We've
enjoyed this time. And yeah, thank you. Hopefully this
conversation is helpful to anyone who's listening right
now,
Jessie Cruickshank: well, you have been listening to the
ordinary discipleship podcast. Remember, you can always learn
more@huology.co that's W, H, O, o, l, o, G, y.co. Dot.