WEBVTT NOTE This file was generated by Descript 00:00:00.135 --> 00:00:13.545 nancy-giordano-_1_09-22-2025_080949: Hi everyone, this is Nancy Ano, exponential strategist, curious world student I guess, and mother of three who, uh, is really thrilled to be bringing the Futurist Mom podcast to you. 00:00:13.785 --> 00:00:17.205 It's designed to really weave this perspective on how we look. 00:00:17.490 --> 00:00:18.210 Farther out, right? 00:00:18.210 --> 00:00:24.330 And we look at how things are shifting and changing with how it is that we are approaching our jobs as parents and caregivers right now. 00:00:24.330 --> 00:00:32.025 Hopefully with greater confidence in making decisions today that impact tomorrow and a perfect person within to have that conversation is my really good friend. 00:00:32.585 --> 00:00:42.455 Deborah Perry p uh, Silicon Valley based entrepreneur, innovation expert and bestselling author who has spent years helping organizations adapt to disruption and exponential change. 00:00:42.455 --> 00:00:49.205 She's written many books about them specifically, uh, for starting with Silicon Valley and unlocking the secrets of Silicon Valley. 00:00:49.475 --> 00:00:52.625 Been thinking a lot about how do you motivate and incentivize people. 00:00:52.685 --> 00:00:57.575 She wrote a book called The People Equation and Unlocking Innovation, and our most recent book takes a. 00:00:57.990 --> 00:01:00.750 Bigger lookout and thinks about what happens with the world of work. 00:01:01.080 --> 00:01:09.030 The book is entitled, employment is Dead, and has been featured in outlets from the Wall Street Journal to the Harvard Business Review, but beyond just the professional lens. 00:01:09.030 --> 00:01:16.860 Deborah's also the mother of three children, two young adult twins in their twenties, and her daughter who's heading into college and higher education. 00:01:16.860 --> 00:01:19.380 And so a lot of these things, as we imagine again, is your. 00:01:19.600 --> 00:01:26.740 Preaching about how things are shifting and changing, and it's impacting then the decisions and the ways that you support your children as they're navigating their way through. 00:01:26.740 --> 00:01:31.870 So as we talk about the future of work isn't about or about the job. 00:01:32.520 --> 00:01:37.080 That those structures around work are shifting and changing, even if it doesn't appear so in real time. 00:01:37.080 --> 00:01:37.230 Right. 00:01:37.230 --> 00:01:45.150 The tug of work currently exists between what we can imagine it looking like and right now the, the sort of pullback to an older way of doing it. 00:01:45.150 --> 00:01:51.030 So it may not seem as though we're in a moment of tremendous change when we think about how the technologies like ai. 00:01:51.265 --> 00:01:59.605 Like decentralized technologies of blockchain and, uh, robotics and how all of these are going to impact both the way we work and how we work and where we work. 00:01:59.605 --> 00:02:09.625 And if we'll work in traditional jobs or whether or not work will take a different, um, shape or allow us to have more freedoms to build the lives that we want, dere will enhance. 00:02:09.835 --> 00:02:15.025 Help us answer the question of what kind of world we want to live in and how we want to spend our time. 00:02:15.321 --> 00:02:22.371 It is so fun again that I have a friend who is such an accomplished person because I was thinking about it this weekend as I was preparing for this podcast or thinking about this. 00:02:22.371 --> 00:02:31.311 You know, you and I have had so many real time conversations, but I hadn't really dug into the whole history of your work as I get to listen to your podcast and dive more deeply into your book. 00:02:31.311 --> 00:02:31.521 And, 00:02:31.881 --> 00:02:35.781 So now I feel like I get to have a, you know, an even more robust conversation with you around it. 00:02:35.781 --> 00:02:37.701 But I think that as we jump into. 00:02:38.091 --> 00:02:40.041 This conversation and kind of where your head is. 00:02:40.041 --> 00:02:46.311 I love the fact that you framed the world very similar to I two, that we have this incredible moment, right, this incredible moment of change. 00:02:46.611 --> 00:02:54.171 And you ask two questions as we prepare for that moment, which is what kind of world do we wanna live in, and what kind and how do we want to spend our time? 00:02:54.311 --> 00:02:55.601 deborah-perry-piscion_1_09-22-2025_080949: Yes, absolutely. 00:02:56.171 --> 00:03:00.161 You know, I from a very early age have been fascinated by time. 00:03:00.221 --> 00:03:10.031 So I would be sitting in my Washington DC office on Capitol Hill, and if I finished my job at two, why did I have to sit there till six? 00:03:10.061 --> 00:03:16.301 Because you had to put in that FaceTime in Washington DC and if you did an all-nighter, it was like a badge of honor. 00:03:16.941 --> 00:03:25.341 And I just never understood the concept of FaceTime when you could be doing so many other beneficial things towards your life. 00:03:25.341 --> 00:03:26.571 You could go for a run. 00:03:26.571 --> 00:03:30.921 I wasn't married then, didn't have children, but you could spend better family time together. 00:03:30.921 --> 00:03:32.511 You could avoid the traffic. 00:03:32.881 --> 00:03:37.956 So time is something so interesting in that we're so caught up in. 00:03:38.671 --> 00:03:46.351 What it is to, you know, how it equates to productivity when really we should be thinking about productivity and outcome. 00:03:46.471 --> 00:04:05.091 And I do think we're at this very profound moment where, you know, we can really rewrite the rules we can completely capitalize off of ai, have enormous, you know, savings of time, and figure out how to develop the other side of our brain and start dancing and laughing again. 00:04:06.080 --> 00:04:09.500 nancy-giordano-_1_09-22-2025_080949: Well, I said I think that let's start back with your, you know, the highlights of a career. 00:04:09.500 --> 00:04:13.460 So you grew up in Miami, but then you went to combination of New York and dc. 00:04:13.460 --> 00:04:20.630 Spent 18 years on the East Coast and really high pressure, high visibility professions and government and media. 00:04:21.150 --> 00:04:23.715 And you know, there is a way in which that world worked and I 00:04:23.715 --> 00:04:23.875 grew. 00:04:24.540 --> 00:04:29.370 I went to New York and where I started in advertising, it's creative industry is different than I think that what you were doing. 00:04:29.370 --> 00:04:32.250 But I still think, you know, it was pretty intense work culture. 00:04:32.530 --> 00:04:40.720 I do think that as I wonder as women, if we question that clock more than as men, because I think that there's just a different way in which we look at all the different components of our lives. 00:04:40.720 --> 00:04:42.190 We don't compartmentalize as much. 00:04:42.190 --> 00:04:42.400 Right? 00:04:42.400 --> 00:04:43.960 We try and blend all those things together. 00:04:43.960 --> 00:04:45.040 So maybe that was part of it. 00:04:45.040 --> 00:04:47.560 'cause I had the same kinds of questions that you had back then. 00:04:48.050 --> 00:04:49.100 And then you moved to Silicon Valley. 00:04:49.970 --> 00:04:57.410 You've written books about how Silicon Valley works and the mindset of Silicon Valley, but that contrast between the two is really an eye-opening thing for you. 00:04:57.500 --> 00:04:58.400 You wanna fill us 00:04:58.505 --> 00:04:59.585 deborah-perry-piscion_1_09-22-2025_080949: Oh, without a doubt. 00:04:59.585 --> 00:05:15.905 You know, I really thought 18 years in Washington DC I'd worked on Capitol Hill, then I. Was appointed to the White House, and then I completely fell into media as a commentator, and I really believe that everybody works in these hierarchies. 00:05:15.965 --> 00:05:21.085 And you know, there were like two sandboxes, particularly in the political environment. 00:05:21.335 --> 00:05:24.905 You're a Republican, a Democrat, you're for the bill, you're against the bill. 00:05:25.325 --> 00:05:31.985 And so there wasn't really middle ground back then, although I was always an iconoclast, no doubt. 00:05:32.505 --> 00:05:37.995 But I really believed after 18 years, it wasn't until I came to Silicon Valley. 00:05:38.045 --> 00:05:43.505 And I realized that in all my years in DC I learned how to do two things really well. 00:05:44.105 --> 00:05:59.195 I learned how to put fear in people because if you put fear in people, you galvanize 'em to contribute to your political campaign, you galvanize 'em to, you know, increase viewership at CNN, where I was a commentator for over 10 years. 00:05:59.585 --> 00:06:03.155 And that was how a lot of that business got done. 00:06:03.635 --> 00:06:06.875 And then the second thing I became very good at is dividing people. 00:06:07.595 --> 00:06:12.125 Into an us versus them, because that's what you're indoctrinated into. 00:06:12.125 --> 00:06:15.995 And I really believe everybody works like this. 00:06:16.595 --> 00:06:25.985 So it wasn't until we moved to Silicon Valley in 2006 for full disclosure for my husband's job that I realized there were multiple sandboxes. 00:06:26.555 --> 00:06:29.135 And multiple ways of getting things done. 00:06:29.495 --> 00:06:34.715 But at its core was this very question, how can I help you? 00:06:34.805 --> 00:06:37.445 And that's exactly what happened to me. 00:06:37.835 --> 00:06:41.855 I was in line at a Starbucks in our local community in Los Altos. 00:06:42.215 --> 00:06:44.705 A woman recognized that I was new to town. 00:06:45.005 --> 00:06:49.745 We started talking and then she said to me, how can I help you? 00:06:50.405 --> 00:07:04.445 Three weeks later, because of that meeting, I was sitting down at Kleiner Perkins, one of the premier venture capital funds, and ended up raising $5 million, not just from that investor, for my very first company. 00:07:04.505 --> 00:07:07.415 And then that company sold 18 months later and I was like. 00:07:08.030 --> 00:07:15.290 What is it with this culture that makes it so fundamentally unique, almost an anomaly? 00:07:16.070 --> 00:07:20.660 And so I really wanted to study the DNA of Silicon Valley. 00:07:20.660 --> 00:07:23.660 It had been written about more in a quantifiable. 00:07:24.155 --> 00:07:30.985 Standpoint and maybe comparisons with Boston and Route 1 28 or you know, in Raleigh Durham, that area. 00:07:31.255 --> 00:07:44.425 But no one had really kind of covered the culture of Silicon Valley and it is the innovation capital of the world due to the culture that, you know, sustains with its unspoken rules. 00:07:45.310 --> 00:07:47.830 nancy-giordano-_1_09-22-2025_080949: Well, and I thought that, again, it's a combination, interestingly. 00:07:47.830 --> 00:07:50.770 'cause I mean, Silicon Valley, you know, at this point in 2025. 00:07:51.595 --> 00:07:54.595 Has conjures up a bunch of different kinds of feelings and things. 00:07:54.595 --> 00:07:54.925 Right. 00:07:54.925 --> 00:07:56.005 So this is early days 00:07:56.005 --> 00:07:56.755 Silicon Valley. 00:07:56.755 --> 00:08:00.905 I think that it'd be interesting to see how you feel about some of the things that we questioned about it now. 00:08:00.905 --> 00:08:12.485 But I think at the time, the way that you described both the impact that Stanford University had and the founding of Stanford and the real ethos that was built into that was to be collaborative, that was to be cross-functional. 00:08:12.485 --> 00:08:15.915 It was to be tech and science forward, which was, you know. 00:08:16.115 --> 00:08:18.095 Really a challenge to a lot of the universities at time. 00:08:18.095 --> 00:08:20.945 It was founded in the la the late 18 hundreds, right. 00:08:21.245 --> 00:08:28.975 And brought that kind of thinking to California as part of the gold rush and part of the boom and all the businesses that were happening there that were challenging a lot of the thinking on the East Coast. 00:08:28.975 --> 00:08:31.195 So I thought that was a fascinating part of it. 00:08:31.535 --> 00:08:32.855 And the geography itself, right? 00:08:32.855 --> 00:08:36.850 That there's this like narrow mountainous area that puts things in the string of. 00:08:37.285 --> 00:08:39.145 Towns that go between here and there. 00:08:39.145 --> 00:08:40.015 I never really understood the 00:08:40.015 --> 00:08:41.095 full valley part of it. 00:08:41.505 --> 00:08:45.795 And that it is a flat, not a big hierarchical, it's not built in big, huge high rises. 00:08:45.795 --> 00:08:47.805 It's built in, you know, second and third story 00:08:47.805 --> 00:08:48.435 buildings. 00:08:48.435 --> 00:08:53.785 And so, all of that becomes this confluence that makes people want to work more with each other. 00:08:53.785 --> 00:08:57.325 I had the same feeling when I moved to Austin, actually when I moved from LA where everybody was like. 00:08:57.620 --> 00:09:12.365 Don't steal my agent and don't steal my idea, and don't steal my whatever to now being in Austin, which was very entrepreneurial and very and very governmental actually, interestingly, and people wanted to meet with you and wanted to work with you and wanted to collaborate with you and wanted to help you bring your idea forward, 00:09:12.785 --> 00:09:13.025 right? 00:09:13.205 --> 00:09:15.035 The question was, what do you do and how can I help? 00:09:15.155 --> 00:09:19.095 So, I think those cultures make a really big difference in how people think. 00:09:19.095 --> 00:09:21.705 But I think there was also, like you talk about the workflow since this was. 00:09:22.290 --> 00:09:24.540 More of a conversation around the future of work, right? 00:09:24.540 --> 00:09:26.730 There was a way in which they worked that was different. 00:09:26.730 --> 00:09:30.120 So partly it was more collaborative, but also was more fluid, right? 00:09:30.625 --> 00:09:31.825 deborah-perry-piscion_1_09-22-2025_080949: Yeah, without a doubt. 00:09:31.825 --> 00:09:37.525 And look, I still feel exactly the same way about Silicon Valley as I did back then. 00:09:37.525 --> 00:09:42.655 If I look at, you know, look, you and I travel a lot, we see the world. 00:09:42.775 --> 00:09:48.565 It is, I'm not gonna say very easy to get things done, but it is the most seamless that I've seen. 00:09:48.565 --> 00:09:50.395 And I think in part, there's not. 00:09:50.645 --> 00:09:51.755 Two sandboxes. 00:09:51.755 --> 00:09:58.025 It's, there's multiple sandboxes, so if you don't fit into one, you can just kind of jump into the other overall. 00:09:58.055 --> 00:10:04.415 But yeah, it's, it is this mindset where it's not about chasing the dollars. 00:10:04.475 --> 00:10:05.825 That's not why you're here. 00:10:05.825 --> 00:10:09.575 A lot of people are here because they've known what they've wanted to do since they were. 00:10:10.245 --> 00:10:12.615 Two years old or they were just born that way. 00:10:12.915 --> 00:10:13.245 Right. 00:10:13.245 --> 00:10:17.445 So it is this commitment to wanna make the world better. 00:10:17.795 --> 00:10:25.055 And I found for the people who feel like they can come from other spheres of influence, and I'm gonna go to Silicon Valley 'cause I'm gonna make a tremendous amount of money. 00:10:25.565 --> 00:10:31.295 The industry and the community really, the ecosystem kind of pushes those people out. 00:10:31.805 --> 00:10:43.385 And so yeah, I mean you look, there's countless examples of people who are al already multimillionaires or billionaires who continue to wanna contribute to the world in meaningful ways. 00:10:43.937 --> 00:10:44.475 nancy-giordano-_1_09-22-2025_080949: Yes. 00:10:44.605 --> 00:10:45.505 We'll talk a little more about that. 00:10:45.505 --> 00:10:48.625 'cause I think there is this there, there's a success culture that's pretty intense there. 00:10:48.625 --> 00:10:54.535 But let's back up and say also, interestingly, juxtaposed against that is an acceptance of trying and 00:10:54.535 --> 00:10:58.435 failing or experimenting and learning, or however you wanna describe it, right? 00:10:58.435 --> 00:11:03.200 There's a lot more, tolerance, if not encouragement, to go out and try something new. 00:11:03.300 --> 00:11:05.460 deborah-perry-piscion_1_09-22-2025_080949: Yeah, and I think you hit the nail on the head. 00:11:05.640 --> 00:11:09.060 I remember seeing Google for the first time. 00:11:09.060 --> 00:11:12.210 I mean, this is back in 2006, and I thought, how crazy. 00:11:12.210 --> 00:11:17.220 Why do they only have these, you know, I was so used to tall buildings, particularly from New York and. 00:11:18.035 --> 00:11:32.895 Washington DC and you do have two and three story buildings here because if people do fail, they just like jump from the second or third story, they sprain their ankle and Monday morning they, you know, they realize they can restart again. 00:11:32.895 --> 00:11:37.845 And so it's not about, we say it's the great experiment rather than the failure. 00:11:37.965 --> 00:11:43.125 And you do, it's amazing to me how many great experience experiments I've had. 00:11:43.915 --> 00:11:55.495 Now play relevance, whether it was that immediate learning over time or the market just wasn't ready for what it is I was trying to go to market with. 00:11:55.575 --> 00:12:09.541 And so I always told people it's not, there's no failed experiences because there's so much learning and there's so many great stories where enormous innovations have come out of things that didn't initially work. 00:12:10.005 --> 00:12:11.925 nancy-giordano-_1_09-22-2025_080949: And with that comes the ability to pivot. 00:12:12.285 --> 00:12:21.105 So, you know, if you look at it from the corporate lens, and we'll talk about it in the family lens in a moment, but if you look at it from the corporate lens, there are so many companies that started in one direction and then realize that's not really where the market was. 00:12:21.105 --> 00:12:26.805 And then they pivoted to another direction, or they took this idea, it didn't work, but then they took the kernel of it and built something else, right? 00:12:26.805 --> 00:12:32.395 So there was this lot of shifting, moving, reinventing this idea that again, it didn't have to start like and go. 00:12:32.970 --> 00:12:35.610 Fully against just one vision. 00:12:35.950 --> 00:12:42.310 Which I think is a really key part of when we start to look at the future and we think about what is available to our children, that we don't get so baked into that there's only 00:12:42.505 --> 00:12:43.765 deborah-perry-piscion_1_09-22-2025_080949: Yeah, for sure. 00:12:43.825 --> 00:12:44.425 For sure. 00:12:44.635 --> 00:12:44.905 Yeah. 00:12:44.905 --> 00:12:53.035 And even within companies, I mean the original iPod, which was a third of Apple's revenue for quite some. 00:12:53.035 --> 00:12:59.855 Time that Steve Jobs did not initially support, but it looked like the beginnings of the iPhone, you know, just the basics of it. 00:13:00.500 --> 00:13:11.720 So, you know, we get incredibly scrappy and I think by being scrappy, you know, when it comes to creativity, it allows you to try a lot of different things. 00:13:11.930 --> 00:13:18.320 In fact, some of the best advice I ever got from any successful entrepreneur out here came from a woman. 00:13:18.540 --> 00:13:19.330 And she said to me. 00:13:19.930 --> 00:13:29.410 Get it to the market as fast as possible, because particularly as women, we like to, you know, it's almost analysis by paralysis or paralysis by analysis. 00:13:30.006 --> 00:13:30.036 nancy-giordano-_1_09-22-2025_080949: I 00:13:30.036 --> 00:13:30.936 wanna make it perfect. 00:13:30.996 --> 00:13:31.296 Yeah. 00:13:31.336 --> 00:13:33.856 deborah-perry-piscion_1_09-22-2025_080949: really throw it out there as quick as possible. 00:13:33.886 --> 00:13:35.926 'cause the market's gonna tell you what to do. 00:13:36.510 --> 00:13:39.450 nancy-giordano-_1_09-22-2025_080949: Okay, so then you translate that into then what is it like to raise kids? 00:13:39.450 --> 00:13:49.230 Because we also know that, you know, there's lots and lots of stories about what it's like to be in a Palo Alto High School and the intense pressure that parents have on their children to want to be very successful as they grow up. 00:13:49.260 --> 00:13:50.865 And you know, there's whether. 00:13:51.555 --> 00:13:52.845 There's a whole documentary, right? 00:13:52.845 --> 00:13:53.145 Race to 00:13:53.145 --> 00:14:01.945 Nowhere that has been written and about these kinds of, and it's not, you know, only in Silicon Valley, but I think a lot of that was kind of, modeled from there, right? 00:14:02.245 --> 00:14:07.555 Every AP course, every extracurricular that you could possibly do, every whatever. 00:14:07.555 --> 00:14:14.455 Somebody actually even told my son, my oldest son, when he was in high school and thinking about going to college, like how you go to prepare and they're like, write a book and. 00:14:16.490 --> 00:14:16.780 deborah-perry-piscion_1_09-22-2025_080949: Yeah. 00:14:16.780 --> 00:14:17.100 Right. 00:14:17.360 --> 00:14:20.140 Or build out a company by the time you're 15 or Yes. 00:14:20.950 --> 00:14:21.220 nancy-giordano-_1_09-22-2025_080949: Right. 00:14:21.520 --> 00:14:25.150 But even then, like a company I can almost understand in a book, I'm like, are you fucking kidding me? 00:14:25.150 --> 00:14:25.450 Sorry. 00:14:25.540 --> 00:14:25.900 Language. 00:14:26.250 --> 00:14:29.760 But the point was that there was like all this pressure to not just be one version. 00:14:29.760 --> 00:14:38.395 Like you couldn't just be a nerd or an athlete or a creative or a philanthropist or, you know, whatever the idea was that you had to be all of these things so that you'd be able to get into Stanford, right? 00:14:38.580 --> 00:14:42.610 Or be able to get into whatever the the schools are that parents wanted their kids to be a part of. 00:14:42.610 --> 00:14:43.900 So how do you balance this? 00:14:44.440 --> 00:14:52.555 Mindset in Silicon Valley of experimenting and pivoting and collaboration and all these things with this really intense how I raise my 00:14:52.650 --> 00:14:56.040 deborah-perry-piscion_1_09-22-2025_080949: You know the, it's such a critical question, right? 00:14:56.040 --> 00:14:57.630 To today's landscape. 00:14:57.630 --> 00:15:06.820 And let me just admit, I was that parent, but not from Silicon Valley, more East coast, you know, like my mom's entire side of the family. 00:15:07.220 --> 00:15:11.630 Went to Harvard, so there was so much pressure to perform. 00:15:12.080 --> 00:15:21.170 Although my mother never put that kind of pressure on me, but I have a feeling it's because she had moved to Florida and if we'd still been in New York, maybe that pressure would've been there. 00:15:21.590 --> 00:15:28.760 So, you know, in some respects I saw it even more so in Washington DC and New York and in those environments. 00:15:29.190 --> 00:15:30.660 And that was when. 00:15:31.080 --> 00:15:33.330 Those degrees mattered. 00:15:33.570 --> 00:15:41.790 I know for me, there's certain things that I did not get in Washington DC because I didn't have the right educational pedigree. 00:15:42.450 --> 00:15:51.720 And I, my very first kind of interview process when I moved to Silicon Valley in 2006 I was told by Google after seven. 00:15:52.320 --> 00:16:03.390 Interviews that my education was not on their list, and I went to Florida State undergrad for two years, then spent the third year in London and then put myself through Georgetown. 00:16:04.050 --> 00:16:05.790 I went to Florida State. 00:16:06.090 --> 00:16:13.800 It's a great school, but we couldn't afford for me to go to any of the schools that I had gotten into in the Northeast. 00:16:14.100 --> 00:16:20.520 I ended up paying for my own undergrad and graduate school, and so, you know that. 00:16:20.925 --> 00:16:22.780 Has really resonated it. 00:16:23.085 --> 00:16:34.995 It didn't stop me from achieving what I wanted to achieve, but to me, placing value in judgment just on where someone got into school or not, was absurd. 00:16:34.995 --> 00:16:43.335 Particularly for that position that I was interviewing at Google, they could have very much benefited, you know, my background because it was in the government relations space. 00:16:44.070 --> 00:16:46.720 So, you know, I was that parent. 00:16:46.720 --> 00:16:50.800 We put our kids through very rigorous private schools. 00:16:51.230 --> 00:17:05.210 80% of the private school they were in was of Asian descent, so there was just enormous pressure to perform, you know, and some of my kids' friends were fearful to come home with a b plus. 00:17:06.020 --> 00:17:10.910 And so I just had to take a hard look at some point. 00:17:11.645 --> 00:17:16.685 I started to transform and go, wait a minute, these guys gotta be kids. 00:17:17.045 --> 00:17:19.355 'cause it wasn't just academic pressure, Nancy. 00:17:19.355 --> 00:17:21.965 There's a lot of athletic pressure. 00:17:22.070 --> 00:17:22.760 nancy-giordano-_1_09-22-2025_080949: That's what I'm saying. 00:17:22.760 --> 00:17:23.810 Athletic pressure, 00:17:23.810 --> 00:17:25.970 creative pressure, Phil, philanthropic or 00:17:25.970 --> 00:17:26.540 altruistic 00:17:26.885 --> 00:17:28.055 deborah-perry-piscion_1_09-22-2025_080949: yeah, absolutely. 00:17:28.055 --> 00:17:30.725 You know, we have a lot of former Olympic athletes here. 00:17:31.295 --> 00:17:34.145 You know, it's a great place to train and they have kids. 00:17:34.515 --> 00:17:43.305 So I've seen remarkable things on the tennis court of the fathers and mothers who put pressure on their kids as well. 00:17:44.055 --> 00:17:51.705 So, you know, at some point just, it was like an, I don't know if you wanna call it an aha moment or what it is, but it was just like, happiness. 00:17:52.785 --> 00:17:53.865 What does that mean? 00:17:54.195 --> 00:17:58.605 What does that mean for me, for my children, for our family at large? 00:17:59.092 --> 00:18:00.642 nancy-giordano-_1_09-22-2025_080949: So to catch everybody up, you've 00:18:00.642 --> 00:18:06.522 got three children, you've got twin boys, and you've got a daughter, and your boys are 21 now, 20. 00:18:06.852 --> 00:18:08.052 Oh, 20. 00:18:08.052 --> 00:18:08.262 Okay. 00:18:08.262 --> 00:18:18.852 So, college age, although they may took different paths around what they wanted to go do, and then your daughter is just in the process of applying those schools and thinking about what she wants to go to next year, where she wants to be. 00:18:18.852 --> 00:18:19.062 Right. 00:18:19.062 --> 00:18:24.662 So you're in that interesting crossroads where everyone's made these interesting and fascinating decisions inside The Crucible. 00:18:24.662 --> 00:18:28.092 That is you know, again, a very successful. 00:18:28.757 --> 00:18:32.237 Area of town and a very expensive part of the world to live in, by the way. 00:18:32.387 --> 00:18:32.627 Right. 00:18:32.627 --> 00:18:40.312 We know that Silicon Valley requires that you have a certain lifestyle or certain income to be able to have a really, you know, I think a great lifestyle. 00:18:40.312 --> 00:18:42.722 So I think the interesting thing is you start to switch. 00:18:42.722 --> 00:18:44.642 Then that light came on and said it about happiness. 00:18:44.732 --> 00:18:47.942 I think I did the same thing, like there was, you know, I'm definitely was the AP mom. 00:18:47.942 --> 00:18:49.552 I wanted my kids to have really, to achieve. 00:18:49.552 --> 00:18:57.052 Well, and we moved to Austin so they could be part of a really great school district just outside of Austin that was much more competitive and they got experience with all these kinds of things. 00:18:57.112 --> 00:19:00.772 And then like you say, I think there was a moment where you woke up and thought, am I pushing them too hard? 00:19:01.072 --> 00:19:01.702 And for what? 00:19:02.242 --> 00:19:07.372 And I think you had a really interesting point just now when you said, when that education really mattered, because the question is what 00:19:07.652 --> 00:19:08.732 deborah-perry-piscion_1_09-22-2025_080949: Yeah, absolutely. 00:19:08.732 --> 00:19:22.292 And I think, I wanna say, you know, certainly by having three kids going through COVID at a private school where they were, it was like they were in person March, 2020, and then the next week they weren't. 00:19:22.292 --> 00:19:24.542 And the exact same amount of schooling. 00:19:25.222 --> 00:19:27.562 Still happen at home, at online. 00:19:27.562 --> 00:19:38.272 So I think it was, you know, even more dangerous in a lot of respects to have kids sitting in the room for eight hours of lessons every day and then have to do their homework and projects after that. 00:19:38.842 --> 00:19:44.802 But I remember distinctively one day, my son Drake was on a very competitive. 00:19:44.872 --> 00:19:52.352 Tennis path about to play at a national level and he was sitting in the backseat 'cause he wasn't old enough to be in the front seat. 00:19:52.472 --> 00:19:59.011 And I just heard, you know, continuously on the way to a tournament that he was going to. 00:19:59.011 --> 00:20:03.541 And I turned to my husband after and I said, this kid is feeling too much pressure. 00:20:03.991 --> 00:20:09.871 My husband's response at the time was, kids don't feel pressure and this kid. 00:20:10.501 --> 00:20:11.401 Did feel pressure. 00:20:11.401 --> 00:20:15.901 Maybe other kids wouldn't feel the intensity, but this kid did. 00:20:15.901 --> 00:20:31.441 On top of that, Nancy, as you know, he was working as an actor, so he had athletic pressure, he had Hollywood pressure, and he had athletic pressure where coaches were telling my husband, this kid has an opportunity. 00:20:31.441 --> 00:20:33.391 He's got what it takes to go pro. 00:20:33.571 --> 00:20:35.431 And it's not just about the talent. 00:20:35.461 --> 00:20:37.321 There's a lot of other things that come with it. 00:20:37.861 --> 00:20:38.401 And. 00:20:39.061 --> 00:20:42.781 We actually got called in by their school at one point. 00:20:42.781 --> 00:20:50.101 He was in fifth grade and they said, something's gotta give, something's gotta give. 00:20:50.521 --> 00:20:54.031 'cause he had a meltdown during one of his math tests. 00:20:54.961 --> 00:21:01.321 And so, you know, it wasn't at that moment that we made dramatic changes. 00:21:01.786 --> 00:21:06.406 We always checked in and asked him, do you wanna still play tennis? 00:21:06.616 --> 00:21:08.296 Do you still wanna do acting? 00:21:08.696 --> 00:21:17.186 But I think for him, he was always trying to appease us and so he was my kid that I focused on the most. 00:21:17.486 --> 00:21:19.166 The other one, his twin brother Dominic. 00:21:19.931 --> 00:21:24.491 He is that kid who was born a certain way, and he did. 00:21:24.761 --> 00:21:27.911 We knew who he was going to be from a very young age. 00:21:28.221 --> 00:21:30.831 And that is who he has turned out to be. 00:21:30.831 --> 00:21:33.141 And I studied these great innovators. 00:21:33.141 --> 00:21:37.491 They're incredibly challenging kids to, to raise. 00:21:37.841 --> 00:21:39.671 He beats to his own drum. 00:21:40.071 --> 00:21:42.141 He tells us where, when, how, and why. 00:21:42.485 --> 00:21:43.085 And I. 00:21:43.985 --> 00:21:45.700 nancy-giordano-_1_09-22-2025_080949: Already started two companies, right? 00:21:45.700 --> 00:21:47.890 He's 20 years old And he is already started two. 00:21:48.045 --> 00:21:53.075 deborah-perry-piscion_1_09-22-2025_080949: because the first company is now sold, the second company is doing incredibly well. 00:21:53.075 --> 00:21:56.825 I mean, he just, he knows what he's doing and he figures these things out. 00:21:57.195 --> 00:21:59.715 But he works 24 7 literally. 00:22:00.150 --> 00:22:11.300 And so, you know, it, that type of child, I'm not sure you can parent, you can, you know, do the best you can, but at some point they just know themselves so well. 00:22:11.300 --> 00:22:19.815 They're so authentic that, you know, it's, you can tell 'em it's your way or the highway and they'll take the highway, you know, so. 00:22:24.030 --> 00:22:32.550 nancy-giordano-_1_09-22-2025_080949: Well see now you have, because you have two, two boys, so one that did go to school, go to college, and now is gonna be leaving earlier before he finishes his degree so he can focus on the work that he's already been doing. 00:22:32.820 --> 00:22:36.600 And then the other son decided not to go to college at all, although he had amazing opportunities. 00:22:37.395 --> 00:22:39.975 In an east coast school and with a military academy. 00:22:39.975 --> 00:22:41.295 And instead he is now 00:22:41.295 --> 00:22:44.835 in Hollywood full-time pursuing his acting career. 00:22:45.075 --> 00:22:45.945 And he has started 00:22:46.665 --> 00:22:47.715 during COVID, right? 00:22:47.715 --> 00:22:48.015 They gave 00:22:48.210 --> 00:22:48.660 deborah-perry-piscion_1_09-22-2025_080949: Yeah. 00:22:48.690 --> 00:22:58.340 But let me just say, he was planning on taking a gap year and as you know, his best friend was supposed to be on that gap year with him. 00:22:58.340 --> 00:23:01.730 So he Drake had traveled down to South America in Antarctica. 00:23:02.265 --> 00:23:08.415 And just had this overwhelming feeling that his best friend was not doing okay. 00:23:08.805 --> 00:23:13.995 So he decided to come back before he was planning on leaving for Africa. 00:23:13.995 --> 00:23:16.725 'cause he had a commitment on volunteering there. 00:23:17.055 --> 00:23:19.965 He came home, I always get a little emotional. 00:23:19.965 --> 00:23:25.105 February 12th they made plans to get together that weekend. 00:23:25.705 --> 00:23:30.125 And you know, a couple days later Marco was found. 00:23:31.310 --> 00:23:33.770 Dead in his dorm room in Berkeley. 00:23:34.260 --> 00:23:37.950 So that really changed the trajectory for Drake. 00:23:37.950 --> 00:23:45.425 He was very much planning on going to college and you know, and unfortunately the mother died six months later, so it was just. 00:23:45.441 --> 00:23:52.641 Just a really traumatic year with no guidebook on how to handle grief or direct him. 00:23:53.131 --> 00:23:58.111 So he did a lot of things in a very short period of time, including going on Mr. 00:23:58.111 --> 00:24:00.451 Beast, you know, competitive show. 00:24:00.991 --> 00:24:09.571 And then he realized that he needed to, figure out the best approach to face the facts that this person will no longer be in, in his life. 00:24:09.571 --> 00:24:14.041 So he went back to the Amazon and just really sat with it for a while. 00:24:14.411 --> 00:24:20.891 And it was at that point he decided, you know, it was not gonna be the way he's gonna learn. 00:24:20.921 --> 00:24:30.021 And he was going to go to LA and live life for himself and for Marco, and do the thing that made him happy, which was acting. 00:24:30.611 --> 00:24:33.191 nancy-giordano-_1_09-22-2025_080949: And how did you feel as you were watching him go? 00:24:33.191 --> 00:24:37.991 Not obviously the grief process was really hard and you guys were still all navigating that as a family. 00:24:37.991 --> 00:24:39.731 You're close to Marco's family. 00:24:39.731 --> 00:24:51.586 There's a lot to process in that and I think many people on this podcast can probably relate to somebody that they know in their lives that has been going, gone through something either close to this or as dramatic and as tragic as this. 00:24:51.586 --> 00:24:53.416 So I have a lot of empathy and heart. 00:24:53.416 --> 00:25:07.021 For for Marco's family and for all of you all, as you guys were navigating this, but as you're watching then Drake turn down some of these big, historically relevant opportunities and instead deciding that he wanted to bet on himself and really go through this. 00:25:07.021 --> 00:25:07.231 In 00:25:07.281 --> 00:25:07.971 Were you all 00:25:07.971 --> 00:25:08.576 fully on board? 00:25:09.516 --> 00:25:15.396 deborah-perry-piscion_1_09-22-2025_080949: My husband at the time, not at the end of the day, it's about being happy. 00:25:15.906 --> 00:25:18.956 And of course my head is five to 10 years out. 00:25:19.646 --> 00:25:25.886 I think universities are going to have enormous challenges with relevance. 00:25:26.897 --> 00:25:32.807 and I look at most of these degrees and think, you know, AI is gonna take those over. 00:25:33.427 --> 00:25:34.147 I didn't care. 00:25:34.387 --> 00:25:36.907 I just wanted my child happy. 00:25:36.937 --> 00:25:44.107 But what's interesting is the RIF that it puts not only within your own marriage, but your extended family. 00:25:44.107 --> 00:25:53.167 So even my mother, you know, gave me a lot of, you know, crap for not pushing Drake towards. 00:25:53.227 --> 00:25:57.997 At the Naval Academy or Harvard or I just wanted him happy. 00:25:58.077 --> 00:25:58.467 That was it. 00:25:59.072 --> 00:25:59.942 That's all I cared about. 00:26:00.572 --> 00:26:04.742 nancy-giordano-_1_09-22-2025_080949: Which I think, again, this is why I think being a futurist and a mom simultaneously is such an 00:26:04.742 --> 00:26:05.522 extraordinary thing, right? 00:26:05.522 --> 00:26:06.902 You did live five to 10 years out. 00:26:06.902 --> 00:26:08.402 It was easier to make some of those decisions. 00:26:08.402 --> 00:26:15.612 I had some of those moments, not quite as dramatic but with my children where I was like, why am I pushing so hard when I think that at the end of the day, this doesn't really matter? 00:26:15.672 --> 00:26:18.107 Or there's another way of looking at this because we can see around the corner. 00:26:18.762 --> 00:26:25.962 So let's transition now to the most recent book you've written, which is called Employment is Dead, which is a very provocative title. 00:26:25.962 --> 00:26:27.012 Doesn't mean work is dead. 00:26:27.067 --> 00:26:30.067 It means employment as we both see it and know it is dead. 00:26:30.067 --> 00:26:32.977 You know, I've had lots and lots of conversations around this. 00:26:33.317 --> 00:26:36.797 So how do you launch into this conversation with someone who doesn't have any real sense? 00:26:36.797 --> 00:26:43.167 Like do we start with how the technological landscape is changing everything and opening up completely new opportunities? 00:26:43.227 --> 00:26:45.897 You know, for people who haven't spent a lot of time, you and I throw out AI very. 00:26:46.517 --> 00:26:47.747 Comfortably and very casually. 00:26:47.747 --> 00:26:49.367 It's a much a part of how we think. 00:26:49.647 --> 00:26:52.227 But I think there are a lot of people who are still trying to wrap their arms around it. 00:26:52.227 --> 00:26:57.747 A lot of families that I have met that are thinking they still, they're proud that their children aren't using AI 'cause they 00:26:57.747 --> 00:26:58.857 don't want their children to cheat. 00:26:58.872 --> 00:27:06.222 deborah-perry-piscion_1_09-22-2025_080949: I'll start by saying we've never seen a transformation that is now we're just at the baby step, the very bottom. 00:27:06.822 --> 00:27:09.462 Yeah, we've never been challenged where 00:27:09.602 --> 00:27:10.622 nancy-giordano-_1_09-22-2025_080949: very early days. 00:27:10.622 --> 00:27:10.952 Yep. 00:27:11.532 --> 00:27:12.492 deborah-perry-piscion_1_09-22-2025_080949: can go away. 00:27:13.202 --> 00:27:22.902 You know, as you know, I think even much further out, robots, robotics and human noise are progressing far faster than we anticipated. 00:27:23.322 --> 00:27:25.632 I get the question a lot, you know, what does it mean? 00:27:25.632 --> 00:27:26.442 Employment instead? 00:27:26.442 --> 00:27:32.962 It's just the structure of work that we've been in over the last 150 years is gonna go away and it should. 00:27:33.407 --> 00:27:40.487 You know, we've been stuck with Taylorism where you know, people are just cogs on the wheel, and it was all about mental management. 00:27:41.092 --> 00:27:43.057 nancy-giordano-_1_09-22-2025_080949: Can you back up for a second and really describe Taylorism? 00:27:43.057 --> 00:27:48.907 Because I was listening to one of your other podcasts and you brought that up and I had never really thought of it that way, and I went and I was Googling Taylorism last night. 00:27:49.277 --> 00:27:49.727 But can you give 00:27:49.812 --> 00:27:50.142 deborah-perry-piscion_1_09-22-2025_080949: Yep. 00:27:50.142 --> 00:27:50.742 Absolutely. 00:27:50.742 --> 00:27:51.792 Who was an engineer? 00:27:51.822 --> 00:27:58.277 It really was the kind of the nexus for the assembly align to evolve and it, the thinking was. 00:27:58.846 --> 00:28:00.976 That, you know, people are just cogs on a wheel. 00:28:00.976 --> 00:28:08.836 They don't have emotions, they don't have feelings, they just have a function and it layered in middle management, right? 00:28:08.836 --> 00:28:10.911 I mean, we were making this transformation from. 00:28:11.671 --> 00:28:22.611 Farming into the industrial age the assembly line plus, but we never really got past the part of control, you know, controlling individuals. 00:28:22.711 --> 00:28:24.511 Putting fear in people. 00:28:24.811 --> 00:28:29.251 You know, fear is just a horrible thing when there's not psychological safety. 00:28:29.551 --> 00:28:35.581 You know, what people can and can achieve for the organization and for themselves overall. 00:28:36.061 --> 00:28:38.761 And no one really has the right to determine. 00:28:39.331 --> 00:28:43.001 You know, to be able to reach our full authentic capacity. 00:28:43.001 --> 00:28:49.291 So Taylorism was the style of management that we sort of got stuck in and didn't even know how to get past. 00:28:49.291 --> 00:28:51.631 And it dates back to 1918. 00:28:52.091 --> 00:28:53.591 nancy-giordano-_1_09-22-2025_080949: All about efficiency, right? 00:28:53.591 --> 00:28:55.001 Efficiency and productivity. 00:28:55.280 --> 00:29:06.920 And so now we're in this world where we're really, you know, focused on innovation and creativity and collaboration and all these things that we know that we need, and hopefully, you know, integrity and ethics as we build a future that is gonna have such a huge impact on all of us. 00:29:06.920 --> 00:29:09.320 And so bringing, I, I talk a lot about this unite. 00:29:09.320 --> 00:29:11.450 This is where our work so unites, right? 00:29:11.450 --> 00:29:18.200 If you bring an industrial era way of thinking into this exponential future, it creates tremendous pain, but also I think tremendous danger. 00:29:18.395 --> 00:29:24.595 It's just an awful way of looking at things, and we're seeing that right now in this whole tug of war around what current work should look like. 00:29:24.595 --> 00:29:26.215 Nevermind the future of work, right? 00:29:26.245 --> 00:29:29.215 Again, there's another headline in the Wall Street Journal this morning about the fact that 00:29:29.215 --> 00:29:33.545 all the bosses who are, you know, demanding return to work and all the employees are going I don't think so. 00:29:36.125 --> 00:29:37.715 So even that, the control that people 00:29:37.715 --> 00:29:40.295 thought they had over their workforce is, 00:29:40.325 --> 00:29:46.865 deborah-perry-piscion_1_09-22-2025_080949: it's just, first of all, COVID proved that we didn't need to be in the office, but you look at like, nobody should have traffic. 00:29:46.895 --> 00:29:49.825 I just was in a few different cities this past week. 00:29:50.065 --> 00:29:52.495 You know, all of them are experiencing traffic. 00:29:52.765 --> 00:29:54.565 We can be so much smarter. 00:29:54.735 --> 00:29:55.035 Right. 00:29:55.035 --> 00:29:57.935 Overall we don't all need to be in the office at the same time. 00:29:57.935 --> 00:29:59.915 We don't need to be commuting at the same time. 00:30:00.335 --> 00:30:03.935 All of this is so easily solvable. 00:30:04.205 --> 00:30:06.305 So you go to a place like London, right? 00:30:06.305 --> 00:30:11.755 You can't drive more than 30 kilometers, I think within Central London. 00:30:11.755 --> 00:30:15.055 And there's a real push to get everybody to take. 00:30:15.475 --> 00:30:23.405 Public transportation overall, it's very easy just to put these rules in place and, you know, really figure out. 00:30:23.405 --> 00:30:25.595 And I get, there's a lot of economics, right? 00:30:25.595 --> 00:30:37.175 If there's a lot of small businesses built around commercial space, you know, you don't want all those small businesses to go away and you wanna support them as best you can, but come on. 00:30:37.470 --> 00:30:47.980 You know, we're really good at you know, screwing things up and screwing up the planet and the process due to the way that we've continued to do things the last 150 years. 00:30:48.516 --> 00:30:52.956 nancy-giordano-_1_09-22-2025_080949: Yeah, because we're really wed to those structures and to those practices in that way of approaching things. 00:30:52.956 --> 00:30:55.896 So now we're in this world, right, where technology's gonna come and blow everything up. 00:30:55.896 --> 00:30:59.406 In the beginning of your book, you've got a really great glossary that takes people through this. 00:31:00.101 --> 00:31:02.561 You know, collection this whole basket full of things. 00:31:02.561 --> 00:31:04.211 It's not just ai, right? 00:31:04.211 --> 00:31:07.091 It's this understanding of decentralized systems. 00:31:07.091 --> 00:31:09.791 It's thinking about blockchain, it's thinking about robotics. 00:31:09.791 --> 00:31:12.401 To your point, there's a, I mean, we've got smart contracts. 00:31:12.401 --> 00:31:14.591 There's a whole bunch of things that are changing. 00:31:14.591 --> 00:31:20.921 The way that we coordinate action together and to create value together is the way that I describe what that looks like, right? 00:31:21.071 --> 00:31:21.401 Which then 00:31:21.401 --> 00:31:23.081 opens up a completely different way in which we 00:31:23.206 --> 00:31:27.006 deborah-perry-piscion_1_09-22-2025_080949: And you know, really this is about I mean, I'm trying to kill. 00:31:27.446 --> 00:31:27.866 Management. 00:31:27.896 --> 00:31:38.156 'cause I think management gets in the way of innovation and really can thwart how people feel about themselves and not be able to give their best work. 00:31:38.156 --> 00:31:39.296 I mean, psychological safety. 00:31:39.296 --> 00:31:51.726 I wrote a book on risk taking and you know, that component of just feeling safe to take chances if it's not there, if it's absent you know, companies will continue to have. 00:31:52.426 --> 00:32:02.986 Innovations come out of r and d, but really at this point, every person in every corner of the company should be able to bring forth new ideas in a safe and trusted environment. 00:32:03.856 --> 00:32:07.956 So, you know, as you know, I, my really how I spent my career over the last. 00:32:08.956 --> 00:32:29.566 Since 2013 is just looking at innovation process and how do you provide that psychological safety and that process so that people can, you know, explore what's on their minds because that's really where these incremental to the big moonshot innovations have an opportunity to surface and really bring value. 00:32:30.388 --> 00:32:35.008 nancy-giordano-_1_09-22-2025_080949: that's where the humanistic side and the, you know, corporate success side really blend. 00:32:35.038 --> 00:32:38.098 I mean, those two things, they're not like either or. 00:32:38.188 --> 00:32:38.968 They're a hundred percent. 00:32:38.968 --> 00:32:41.548 I would say the same thing about sustainability and corporate success, right? 00:32:41.548 --> 00:32:44.098 Those two things need to be woven more closely together. 00:32:44.278 --> 00:32:55.568 So let's define work, because I think that, you know, to your point in other conversations that you and I have had, my work becomes this like very heavy word and I redefined it, You define it more broadly. 00:32:55.688 --> 00:32:55.988 So 00:32:56.053 --> 00:32:57.253 deborah-perry-piscion_1_09-22-2025_080949: In a phase right now. 00:32:57.253 --> 00:33:05.783 We're just in this fusion between work and life, you know, work o Obviously you need to have sustainability to be able to support yourself, support your. 00:33:05.938 --> 00:33:12.028 Your families, but this is where I think our passion really comes into play. 00:33:12.428 --> 00:33:18.788 We are going to need an entirely new economic model, and you and I have lots of conversations around this. 00:33:19.268 --> 00:33:21.008 So people lose their jobs right now. 00:33:21.068 --> 00:33:21.518 Right. 00:33:22.208 --> 00:33:32.168 And the government, certainly everything Elon Musk was doing really lended itself for other organizations quite large. 00:33:32.168 --> 00:33:41.138 To not only say we're gonna look at our existing workforce and figure out where we can make cuts, where AI can kind of come in, but at the same time. 00:33:41.508 --> 00:33:52.428 You know, big firms like Goldman Sachs and McKinsey have said 60% of our white collar entry level jobs are now have gone away because that can be replaced by ai. 00:33:53.148 --> 00:33:58.278 So the question is, how do we sustain ourselves right when this changing landscape. 00:33:58.853 --> 00:34:16.923 To better answer your question is really we're going from this employment model to this hyper gig work where you can be an AI engineer and a plumber and bake cookies and drive for Uber and have this portfolio career. 00:34:17.808 --> 00:34:24.798 Kind of core, what you've been trained into and bring in a lot of passions along the way. 00:34:25.348 --> 00:34:39.748 But things are going to shift dramatically and we do need government support to figure out, you know, even from my political background, you know, we are gonna need some sort of basic income. 00:34:39.778 --> 00:34:42.218 And so we've gotta figure out what that. 00:34:42.468 --> 00:34:45.498 Going to look like and how that's gonna be paid for. 00:34:45.498 --> 00:35:07.228 And I do think what President Trump is doing with the terrorists is interesting with regards how it can maybe not fully eliminate taxes, but reduce them and really start to explore how we are going to move forward in this transformation that is gonna happen whether we like it or not. 00:35:07.545 --> 00:35:08.355 nancy-giordano-_1_09-22-2025_080949: Yeah, I think tariffs 00:35:08.355 --> 00:35:09.705 and tax is a whole nother conversation. 00:35:09.705 --> 00:35:11.505 It'd be really interesting to go and to dive into that one. 00:35:11.505 --> 00:35:15.465 So I will put that one aside for the moment and the few moments that we have left. 00:35:15.465 --> 00:35:17.265 Yeah, because I think there's a lot of really interesting things. 00:35:17.265 --> 00:35:22.425 'cause even when we talk about wanting to bring manufacturing back to the us, the reality is most of that manufacturer will be automated. 00:35:23.010 --> 00:35:25.500 It'll be done in dark factories, it'll be done with robots. 00:35:25.500 --> 00:35:28.110 And you know, it's not gonna necessarily go create a whole bunch of new jobs for people. 00:35:28.110 --> 00:35:31.440 I think it brings IP back to the us, which I think is really important, right? 00:35:31.440 --> 00:35:34.470 Our intellectual property and an understanding of how things are manufactured. 00:35:34.470 --> 00:35:36.840 But I don't know that it's necessarily gonna create all these jobs. 00:35:36.840 --> 00:35:41.910 And so I think it goes back to what you're saying around how would we create some sort of economic support. 00:35:41.970 --> 00:35:43.650 So I think to back up for a second, right? 00:35:43.650 --> 00:35:47.970 Work is not just about having employment because somebody pays you to go do something, right? 00:35:47.970 --> 00:35:52.480 Work is, energy that's expressed to be able to go create value in some way that's important to you. 00:35:52.480 --> 00:35:53.470 Sometimes it gets paid. 00:35:53.860 --> 00:35:56.140 Sometimes you do it just because you wanna go create something, right? 00:35:56.140 --> 00:35:58.630 I created a whole bunch of TEDx events and did that 00:35:58.630 --> 00:36:03.970 without getting paid, but I got a bunch of different kind of cultural currency and social currency for having done that. 00:36:04.330 --> 00:36:09.370 You know, taking care of our parents, taking care of our family, taking care of the planet, taking care of our community. 00:36:09.400 --> 00:36:10.450 That's all kinds of work. 00:36:10.690 --> 00:36:14.290 Inventing and doing new things and tinkering in our garage is work that's valuable. 00:36:14.290 --> 00:36:18.940 So I do think that there will never, ever be a shortage of things that need to go get done on the planet. 00:36:19.210 --> 00:36:21.160 The question is, do we need to go have what? 00:36:21.310 --> 00:36:23.760 There was a whole essay that a friend of mine wrote this past week. 00:36:23.760 --> 00:36:29.640 Tim Labret in the House of Beautiful Business around, you know, the need for bullshit jobs taking David Grabbers. 00:36:30.180 --> 00:36:36.980 Com phrasing of what a bullshit job is, which is an empty job, but just gives you a sense of someplace to go and something to go do and you get paid something to go do it. 00:36:37.430 --> 00:36:37.670 Right. 00:36:37.670 --> 00:36:40.670 Do we need that in order to feel fulfilled in the world that we're heading into? 00:36:40.670 --> 00:36:41.420 And I would say no. 00:36:41.780 --> 00:36:47.090 I think that there's a zillion ways in which we can feel as that we will be purposeful as we move ahead. 00:36:47.240 --> 00:36:54.350 The question is how do we balance, to your point, the economic side of this in some way that doesn't burn you out with a portfolio career? 00:36:54.770 --> 00:36:55.040 Right. 00:36:55.040 --> 00:36:56.030 It enriches you. 00:36:56.390 --> 00:36:58.790 I think you use the, you have three Ps and I'll add a fourth one. 00:36:58.790 --> 00:36:58.970 Right? 00:36:58.970 --> 00:37:03.760 You talk about passion, play and profit, and I'll add purpose in there, right? 00:37:03.760 --> 00:37:06.340 There's something that's driving you intentionally to wanna go do that. 00:37:06.670 --> 00:37:07.930 So there's a way in which we can think 00:37:07.930 --> 00:37:09.070 about how work would look different. 00:37:09.070 --> 00:37:14.060 I think that as you have been taking this book out now, you wrote this book almost a year ago or eight months ago. 00:37:14.827 --> 00:37:15.027 Yeah. 00:37:15.217 --> 00:37:21.007 So in the conversations that you've had with people since, what is these, the greatest fear around what it is that you're proposing 00:37:21.097 --> 00:37:21.847 deborah-perry-piscion_1_09-22-2025_080949: Oh, I don't know. 00:37:21.847 --> 00:37:23.197 I don't know if there's any relief 00:37:23.467 --> 00:37:24.577 nancy-giordano-_1_09-22-2025_080949: Or the greatest relief 00:37:24.577 --> 00:37:27.337 deborah-perry-piscion_1_09-22-2025_080949: there's a lot of fear of the unknown, right? 00:37:27.342 --> 00:37:32.587 And I think a lot of questions I get are, you know, why isn't this being adopted faster? 00:37:32.882 --> 00:37:39.452 And I think the fear is if you adopt it faster, you position yourself to be unemployed out of a job. 00:37:39.482 --> 00:37:40.997 And so, you know. 00:37:41.922 --> 00:37:47.232 I think at this stage there, there's so many interesting possibilities to think about. 00:37:47.232 --> 00:37:56.382 I mean, I like to think about, you know, do we really even need to travel beyond a 15 mile or 10 mile radius within our own homes? 00:37:56.412 --> 00:38:00.252 You know, can we, our kids go to neighborhood schools, can we be able to. 00:38:00.697 --> 00:38:05.937 Work you know, locally and then be able to be better community members. 00:38:05.937 --> 00:38:07.527 Well, we have community farming. 00:38:07.677 --> 00:38:09.297 Are we gonna grow our own food? 00:38:09.297 --> 00:38:24.537 We need soil replenishment for sure, but there's lots of possibility right now, and I think that's where, you know, it's super fun for you and I to think about and go out there with all of our speaking engagements and thought leadership and be able to talk about this. 00:38:24.977 --> 00:38:27.707 But the reality is for individuals, Nancy. 00:38:28.192 --> 00:38:32.422 People have to really start to develop their other side of the brain too. 00:38:32.452 --> 00:38:41.122 You know, we've been wanting and complaining that we want this European lifestyle for so long, or we work less. 00:38:41.122 --> 00:38:42.382 We enjoy more. 00:38:42.802 --> 00:38:45.652 We now are going to have the opportunity to do that. 00:38:45.652 --> 00:38:46.207 The question is. 00:38:46.748 --> 00:38:54.068 Do we all know how to enjoy more and, you know, do we know how to connect with our families or our communities? 00:38:54.458 --> 00:39:07.988 You know, you've taken a walk down my neighborhood and, you know, it's as friendly as Silicon Valley is, you know, you get these pockets of people that just work work and just, we've just gotta take a breath a bit more. 00:39:08.258 --> 00:39:09.458 Allow the folks who are. 00:39:10.193 --> 00:39:13.583 Leading in ai, let them go work 24 7. 00:39:13.973 --> 00:39:28.183 Figure this all out with us involved along the way in the ethics and and, you know, challenging, just making sure that AI is happening in a way that's safe and trusted as well. 00:39:28.523 --> 00:39:33.833 But, you know, we really owe it to ourselves to live life more and not just to exist. 00:39:34.650 --> 00:39:35.520 nancy-giordano-_1_09-22-2025_080949: 100%. 00:39:35.520 --> 00:39:43.020 And I think some of the pushback that we have around shortening the work week, like I'm a big proponent of having a shorter work week for this while we still have traditional employment, right? 00:39:43.020 --> 00:39:46.350 That it should be set to a different kind of clock, no longer than industrial clock. 00:39:46.620 --> 00:39:50.370 And the pushback has been, well, you know, the Europe is not as productive. 00:39:50.370 --> 00:39:52.515 They've got this shorter work week, or they've got, you know, more. 00:39:52.865 --> 00:39:54.095 Time off and summer. 00:39:54.245 --> 00:39:55.745 But look, they're not as productive as we are. 00:39:55.745 --> 00:39:58.235 They're not ahead in the AI race the way we are. 00:39:58.235 --> 00:40:00.395 They're not, you know, as hungry as we are. 00:40:00.395 --> 00:40:14.345 So it's really interesting to see the conversations around business leadership and big, huge consultancies that I've been talking to that have had that, that have literally given me the excuse or the reasoning why we aren't moving into more humane work modes and approaches. 00:40:14.345 --> 00:40:16.340 Because it somehow goes back to the taylorism. 00:40:16.620 --> 00:40:29.670 You know, piece, and I think this race right now, to get to artificial general intelligence and to have it be in a privately held model in the sense that one company owns it as opposed to a country like Switzerland and feels as though, then somehow they're gonna win. 00:40:29.760 --> 00:40:38.330 So I think that we are in this moment where so much is breaking apart, and yet we're still bringing a lot of old structures and patterning to it. 00:40:38.825 --> 00:40:42.455 That's our work becomes really important and that's why these conversations become really important. 00:40:42.455 --> 00:40:43.685 So I have to let you go in a few minutes. 00:40:43.685 --> 00:41:00.790 So just as we're signing off as a, you know, global futurist, as a person who's studied a lot, who's really observant about how systems work and where things are going, and as a mom of three amazing children, what would your advice be or your guidance be to parents who are very afraid of all this change 00:41:00.955 --> 00:41:01.225 and don't 00:41:01.225 --> 00:41:01.765 deborah-perry-piscion_1_09-22-2025_080949: a breath. 00:41:02.015 --> 00:41:03.335 nancy-giordano-_1_09-22-2025_080949: How best to support their kids 00:41:03.455 --> 00:41:05.135 in a world in which employment may be dead? 00:41:05.255 --> 00:41:09.395 deborah-perry-piscion_1_09-22-2025_080949: Recognize, depending on how many children you have, they're all individuals. 00:41:09.425 --> 00:41:11.225 There's no one size fits approach. 00:41:11.675 --> 00:41:16.745 There are certainly reasons for kids to go to college other than the academic piece. 00:41:17.365 --> 00:41:20.005 You have to do what's best for each child. 00:41:20.545 --> 00:41:26.335 But I would definitely weigh in, you know, whether it's a $15,000. 00:41:26.755 --> 00:41:37.756 A piece of education of higher ed or $90,000 a year you know, what is the value and the ultimate benefit. 00:41:38.521 --> 00:41:41.371 Of having your child in a particular place, everybody's different. 00:41:41.371 --> 00:41:50.221 I did what was best for my boys and my daughter will absolutely go to a four year university, hopefully play soccer as well. 00:41:50.681 --> 00:41:55.151 Do the things she loves and give her a chance to have that level of independence. 00:41:55.781 --> 00:41:56.776 So really just. 00:41:57.437 --> 00:42:10.997 nancy-giordano-_1_09-22-2025_080949: But if she has fired her job at this point, Deborah, having followed and been so, she has been so seminal to this work in which the time that you wrote the book and delivered the book and have been talking about this book, I'm so curious what Dane's view is on the future of work and the kind of job that she would wanna have. 00:42:10.997 --> 00:42:13.547 And I know that you have so little time to answer that question, but, 00:42:13.997 --> 00:42:14.387 deborah-perry-piscion_1_09-22-2025_080949: She's a 00:42:14.587 --> 00:42:16.867 nancy-giordano-_1_09-22-2025_080949: into a young woman's view of the world, 00:42:17.117 --> 00:42:24.407 deborah-perry-piscion_1_09-22-2025_080949: to do no matter what, and I think the benefit of being in a university, setting away from her family, having this. 00:42:24.497 --> 00:42:29.697 Social experiences will be so, so rewarding for her. 00:42:30.057 --> 00:42:33.797 And so, no, she has, she does one ear out the other, you know? 00:42:35.477 --> 00:42:35.927 Yeah. 00:42:36.347 --> 00:42:37.187 I don't even try. 00:42:38.363 --> 00:42:39.533 She's so independent. 00:42:39.538 --> 00:42:39.718 Yes. 00:42:39.723 --> 00:42:39.983 Yes. 00:42:42.455 --> 00:42:43.720 nancy-giordano-_1_09-22-2025_080949: It's so funny, right? 00:42:43.720 --> 00:42:44.500 This is so, 00:42:44.875 --> 00:42:45.575 deborah-perry-piscion_1_09-22-2025_080949: Not at all. 00:42:45.885 --> 00:42:46.175 Yeah. 00:42:47.050 --> 00:42:47.260 nancy-giordano-_1_09-22-2025_080949: so. 00:42:47.290 --> 00:42:50.800 Even if you are a future mom, it doesn't mean your kids ever listen to you when you talk about the future. 00:42:53.870 --> 00:42:59.590 Debra, thank you so, so much for spending time with us today and introducing the world more or this world to your work. 00:42:59.590 --> 00:42:59.800 Right? 00:42:59.800 --> 00:43:01.240 It's interesting, again, after I give a 00:43:01.240 --> 00:43:06.615 keynote talk, and I'm sure the same way with you, people always come up and talk to me, but often come and talk to me the role of parent. 00:43:07.525 --> 00:43:14.275 So we can be talking to the professionals anywhere in the world and government leaders, but at the end of the day, the thing that they most worry about are their children. 00:43:14.335 --> 00:43:17.095 And the thing that they're most hopefully guiding as 00:43:17.230 --> 00:43:18.250 deborah-perry-piscion_1_09-22-2025_080949: Absolutely. 00:43:18.250 --> 00:43:20.290 Such a pleasure to be with you, my friend. 00:43:20.845 --> 00:43:23.635 nancy-giordano-_1_09-22-2025_080949: a little bit more of that together for them as they hopefully take a deep 00:43:24.234 --> 00:43:24.654 deborah-perry-piscion_1_09-22-2025_080949: Thank you. 00:43:24.654 --> 00:43:25.314 You too. 00:43:25.524 --> 00:43:26.519 nancy-giordano-_1_09-22-2025_080949: and more and more to come. 00:43:26.844 --> 00:43:28.164 So, keep rocking. 00:43:28.752 --> 00:43:29.142 Thanks.