1 00:00:05,125 --> 00:00:06,726 Good morning Grid connections listeners. 2 00:00:06,726 --> 00:00:07,637 Welcome back to 3 00:00:07,637 --> 00:00:09,069 Grid connections. 4 00:00:09,069 --> 00:00:15,835 The podcast where we explore all things transportation, clean energy, and our power grid connecting all of these systems together. 5 00:00:15,835 --> 00:00:23,642 This week on great connections, we're bringing you a special episode recorded live from the EV charging summit at expo in Las Vegas last week. 6 00:00:23,642 --> 00:00:31,596 I led a conversation with three industry leaders, Jane McCurry, the executive director of Clean Fuels Michigan, Tom McCalmont the CEO of Paired Power 7 00:00:31,596 --> 00:00:35,917 and Stacey Simms, Senior Director of Clean Fuels and Infrastructure at CalSTART. 8 00:00:35,917 --> 00:00:43,350 Together, they dig into how state-level innovation is driving electric vehicle infrastructure forward, what's really happening behind the headlines at the federal level, 9 00:00:43,350 --> 00:00:50,542 and why multifamily housing and fleet electrification are shaping up to be the next big growth areas in clean transportation. 10 00:00:50,622 --> 00:00:57,144 Before we get more into today's episode, though, we're also thrilled to officially announce the launch of Grid Connections Consulting. 11 00:00:57,144 --> 00:01:06,251 Our new venture supporting electric vehicle adoption through strategic messaging and fleet electrification consulting, which you can check out by going to gridconnections.co. 12 00:01:06,251 --> 00:01:11,834 You can find the link and everything from today's episode, including more about our guests in today's show notes as well. 13 00:01:11,915 --> 00:01:17,699 Also due to the live venue setting, there are some audio quality issues with today's episode. 14 00:01:17,699 --> 00:01:23,283 Unfortunately, it seemed to be the most pronounced with Tom's mic being a bit quieter than the others. 15 00:01:23,283 --> 00:01:24,674 I'm hoping maybe was some editing. 16 00:01:24,674 --> 00:01:26,205 It will get a little better sorted out. 17 00:01:26,205 --> 00:01:35,951 And so my apologies if you have to adjust the volume up and down, but I hope you still enjoy the episode and all feedback for our next live recordings is welcome as well. 18 00:01:35,951 --> 00:01:41,744 Also, we will be returning to two episodes per week starting next week, and we got some great guests lined up already. 19 00:01:41,744 --> 00:01:44,036 So now back to today's show. 20 00:01:44,036 --> 00:01:51,530 Some of the takeaways that really stood out to me were how we discussed how state and local programs are stepping up where federal support has stalled. 21 00:01:51,534 --> 00:02:02,475 creative financing models for multifamily and fleet charging, why solar powered microgrids are a game changer for grid resilience, the EV industry's messy middle, and what comes 22 00:02:02,475 --> 00:02:02,875 next. 23 00:02:02,875 --> 00:02:10,568 If you enjoyed this episode, us a favor, share it with at least one electric vehicle curious friend and leave us a five star review on your favorite podcast platform. 24 00:02:10,568 --> 00:02:14,143 It really does help us and others find the show. 25 00:02:14,143 --> 00:02:22,770 And don't forget to sign up for our brand new newsletter using the link in the show notes to stay ahead of the curb and electric vehicle policy, infrastructure and innovation. 26 00:02:22,770 --> 00:02:24,791 With that, enjoy. 27 00:02:30,299 --> 00:02:37,554 Thank you for joining us this afternoon at the, I guess technically second day, but first day of the expo here at the EV-Charging Summit. 28 00:02:37,554 --> 00:02:39,576 And I'm just really excited about our panel. 29 00:02:39,576 --> 00:02:46,621 We're talking about specifically the partnership between private and public entities. 30 00:02:46,621 --> 00:02:55,126 And I think even before this, we were kind of talking about what the perceptions are around the federal level, what we're hearing on the state level. 31 00:02:55,270 --> 00:03:01,792 And before we get into that, think we got a lot of really interesting backgrounds with the people on the panel today. 32 00:03:01,792 --> 00:03:03,221 So I'll just kick it off. 33 00:03:03,221 --> 00:03:09,304 And then if each of you can kind of just go through real quick, talk about your background, and then I think we can pretty quickly jump into it. 34 00:03:09,304 --> 00:03:11,694 But my name is Chase Drum. 35 00:03:11,694 --> 00:03:14,655 I have great connections consulting. 36 00:03:14,655 --> 00:03:19,887 We focus on EV electrification, specifically around messaging and how to position it to consumers. 37 00:03:19,887 --> 00:03:25,238 We work with a lot of lobbying and trade associations, as well as even on the technical side with 38 00:03:25,410 --> 00:03:26,621 fleet electrification. 39 00:03:26,621 --> 00:03:29,553 we're doing a lot of fun things in the space. 40 00:03:30,194 --> 00:03:33,566 And Chase, you have the best mic voice I think I've ever heard. 41 00:03:33,566 --> 00:03:37,198 this is definitely your space here. 42 00:03:37,198 --> 00:03:39,040 So my name is Stacey Simms. 43 00:03:39,040 --> 00:03:41,110 I'm a senior director at CalSTART. 44 00:03:41,110 --> 00:03:43,683 I've been at CalSTART now for about a year and a half. 45 00:03:43,683 --> 00:03:48,526 CalSTART is a international multinational nonprofit. 46 00:03:48,526 --> 00:03:54,050 We focus on clean transportation deployment, really working in all sectors. 47 00:03:54,070 --> 00:04:04,197 My team works on clean fuels and infrastructure, so really focusing on how do we deploy infrastructure in a way that will quickly accelerate the industry. 48 00:04:04,197 --> 00:04:08,249 So excited to be here, really excited to see our members. 49 00:04:08,249 --> 00:04:13,202 We have 200 plus members of CalSTART, and it's fun to walk the booth and see them all. 50 00:04:15,596 --> 00:04:16,766 Thanks so much for having me. 51 00:04:16,766 --> 00:04:17,957 My name is Jane McCurry. 52 00:04:17,957 --> 00:04:27,090 I'm the executive director at Clean Fuels Michigan, which is a nonprofit trade association for the alternative fuel and EV industries in the state of Michigan. 53 00:04:27,090 --> 00:04:37,533 We focus primarily on policy advocacy and fostering collaboration and connection between the industry, making sure that we're growing clean mobility deployments in Michigan and 54 00:04:37,533 --> 00:04:39,934 also growing business opportunity. 55 00:04:41,644 --> 00:04:42,334 Good to be here. 56 00:04:42,334 --> 00:04:43,235 but not least, Tom. 57 00:04:43,235 --> 00:04:44,495 Yeah, thank you. 58 00:04:45,035 --> 00:04:47,236 Good to be part of this esteemed panel. 59 00:04:47,256 --> 00:04:48,327 My name is Tom McKellman. 60 00:04:48,327 --> 00:04:50,058 I'm CEO of Paired Power. 61 00:04:50,058 --> 00:04:53,439 We're a developer of microgrid to EV charging solutions. 62 00:04:53,439 --> 00:05:04,723 So we combine solar energy with battery storage and available grid to deliver EV charging solutions in places where the grid is, as you know, many times not adequate. 63 00:05:05,404 --> 00:05:10,816 Well, I think that is kind of a perfect point to kind of jump into the topics. 64 00:05:10,848 --> 00:05:23,787 I'm curious for people in the space, think we've seen already a lot of kind of waves where they're good, like just, just kind of different phases of these changes. 65 00:05:24,548 --> 00:05:30,171 and I think it's much more so like on the state level, you'll see this, but it just never makes the headlines. 66 00:05:30,192 --> 00:05:39,104 So I guess I would love to hear kind of the panel's thoughts about what we're seeing on the federal level, because I get this, I get these questions a lot from. 67 00:05:39,104 --> 00:05:46,381 especially the people who, I call like, EV curious, or people who are looking to electrify, they see the headline, they start getting a little skittish. 68 00:05:46,402 --> 00:05:54,954 So what are some of the things you're seeing, whether it be at the federal or the state level, that are kind of making you really optimistic about where the future is and some of 69 00:05:54,954 --> 00:05:58,344 the exciting signs of the industry? 70 00:06:00,012 --> 00:06:01,722 Sure, I'll go first. 71 00:06:02,363 --> 00:06:14,726 yes, if you've not been in this space for very long, and this is the first time you've gone through a significant change in the federal administration, yes, there can be some 72 00:06:15,867 --> 00:06:21,608 maybe feeling a little chaotic, maybe wondering what does the future hold. 73 00:06:21,608 --> 00:06:25,229 I'd actually say I'm very, very optimistic still in this industry. 74 00:06:25,229 --> 00:06:28,222 started in this space in the early 2000s. 75 00:06:28,406 --> 00:06:30,107 taken the bruises, have been through it. 76 00:06:30,107 --> 00:06:42,890 And what I have always seen is that when you have a really good business proposition, no matter what side of the aisle you're talking to, projects do get developed. 77 00:06:42,890 --> 00:06:44,210 Funding does still flow. 78 00:06:44,210 --> 00:06:56,514 There is already a significant increase in states that are engaging and wanting to do more, wanting to make it more even at a local municipal level, and trying to keep the 79 00:06:56,514 --> 00:06:57,754 industry 80 00:06:58,026 --> 00:07:00,047 not just going, but accelerating. 81 00:07:00,047 --> 00:07:01,367 So I'm actually really excited. 82 00:07:01,367 --> 00:07:16,954 I think we're seeing more and more people coming into this space that understand really this really critical point that we have and are taking advantage of really strong projects 83 00:07:16,954 --> 00:07:17,994 and business cases. 84 00:07:17,994 --> 00:07:20,335 And I expect it to continue. 85 00:07:21,716 --> 00:07:22,451 I agree. 86 00:07:22,451 --> 00:07:26,848 I mean, it's no surprise that we're seeing some headlines and I think it's 87 00:07:26,848 --> 00:07:31,940 disappointing the politicization that's happened to EVs over the past few months. 88 00:07:32,278 --> 00:07:38,463 You know, in Michigan, the Trump campaign spent about $25 million in anti-EV ads. 89 00:07:38,463 --> 00:07:43,765 That's actually a really fascinating call out because that was the only state that specifically called that out. 90 00:07:43,766 --> 00:07:45,477 And it was effective. 91 00:07:45,477 --> 00:07:47,198 It created a lot of fear. 92 00:07:47,198 --> 00:07:52,010 In Michigan, 20 % of people's employment is directly tied to the auto industry. 93 00:07:52,010 --> 00:07:53,024 And so it's 94 00:07:53,024 --> 00:07:58,667 really ingrained in people's livelihoods, in their day-to-day, in the auto culture that we have in Michigan. 95 00:07:58,667 --> 00:08:10,664 And I think that's both a word of caution on where we're at in the industry, but also a real opportunity to double down on positive communications, bipartisan rhetoric, like how 96 00:08:10,664 --> 00:08:13,845 electric vehicles help us use domestic energy. 97 00:08:14,334 --> 00:08:17,838 And maybe, Tom, you want to talk a little bit more about EVs as resilience. 98 00:08:17,838 --> 00:08:22,570 There's so much opportunity here for us to pivot and learn from what's happened over the past few months. 99 00:08:22,914 --> 00:08:24,834 I agree with both of you. 100 00:08:25,014 --> 00:08:26,894 I've been in solar for 25 years. 101 00:08:26,894 --> 00:08:28,714 I've been in energy storage for 15. 102 00:08:28,714 --> 00:08:30,894 I've been in EV charging for 10. 103 00:08:31,214 --> 00:08:34,494 And so I relate my experience to those industries. 104 00:08:34,694 --> 00:08:38,814 The solar industry has grown 30 % per year every year for 25 years. 105 00:08:38,814 --> 00:08:41,074 And it didn't matter what administration. 106 00:08:41,474 --> 00:08:42,834 People love solar. 107 00:08:42,834 --> 00:08:43,994 The public loves it. 108 00:08:43,994 --> 00:08:46,334 It's a very democratic form of power. 109 00:08:46,334 --> 00:08:47,994 And I think EVs are similar. 110 00:08:47,994 --> 00:08:50,794 And once you drive one, you like it, you're going to buy another one. 111 00:08:50,794 --> 00:08:51,906 You're not going to go back. 112 00:08:51,906 --> 00:08:56,690 And so I see the market overall continuing to grow and the opportunity still to grow. 113 00:08:56,690 --> 00:09:00,072 There'll be disruptions, but there'll be temporary. 114 00:09:00,313 --> 00:09:04,306 Okay, that makes a lot more sense, Tom, because I felt like we got along already. 115 00:09:04,306 --> 00:09:12,573 I also worked in the solar industry and as an industry that was so state focused, a lot of these challenges seem pretty straightforward. 116 00:09:12,573 --> 00:09:15,426 The product you can go between states with, not a problem. 117 00:09:15,426 --> 00:09:20,450 Whereas with the solar panels in that industry, had so many more of these kind of just unique 118 00:09:21,178 --> 00:09:24,439 wins that headwinds you'd get with this on the state level. 119 00:09:24,439 --> 00:09:32,666 And I think that's a point about where you're seeing a lot of this opportunity and growth and exactly to what you're going to talk about, Jane, around actually the opportunity of 120 00:09:32,666 --> 00:09:39,451 like messaging and kind of resilience and self reliability of just being able to have your own power. 121 00:09:39,451 --> 00:09:43,193 If you can put like solar on your own home and have the battery backup system do it. 122 00:09:43,193 --> 00:09:50,908 But even if you can't, the ability for the actual technology to kind of help the grid and mitigate a lot of these challenges we're seeing. 123 00:09:51,008 --> 00:10:03,719 I'd be kind of curious if we start looking at where are the opportunities right now, since this is a panel focused on public and private relationships, what are some of the areas 124 00:10:03,719 --> 00:10:06,342 that your teams are seeing success with? 125 00:10:10,659 --> 00:10:16,763 I was going to say, you know, we've seen a little caution with public customers, I think. 126 00:10:16,844 --> 00:10:18,295 They're a little bit back on their heels. 127 00:10:18,295 --> 00:10:22,868 Some of them had applied for CFI grants, things like that, and money got pulled. 128 00:10:22,889 --> 00:10:27,493 And so they're looking for other sources of funding, but they haven't diminished their interest. 129 00:10:27,493 --> 00:10:32,447 so, and certainly in California, where we're based, there's a lot of good action at the state level. 130 00:10:32,447 --> 00:10:34,098 The governor's very supportive. 131 00:10:34,098 --> 00:10:36,180 And so some of that money is going to get replaced. 132 00:10:36,180 --> 00:10:39,482 And I think that's going to make a huge difference and projects getting done. 133 00:10:41,492 --> 00:10:42,042 I agree. 134 00:10:42,042 --> 00:10:50,298 I think there's a bit of caution in the public charging space right now as people figure out how to keep their procurement timelines on track as federal funding has been frozen or 135 00:10:50,298 --> 00:10:51,849 put into question. 136 00:10:52,009 --> 00:11:01,526 We are seeing a lot of activity in the multifamily housing space, another area where there's a significant need for charging to make sure that folks who live in condos and 137 00:11:01,526 --> 00:11:09,821 apartments have access to overnight charging, which we know is a pillar of EV ownership, is being able to wake up to a fully charged battery. 138 00:11:10,292 --> 00:11:14,807 And so in the state of Michigan, we actually just launched a funding platform. 139 00:11:14,807 --> 00:11:19,752 It's called the CFCI, Clean Fuel and Charging Infrastructure Program. 140 00:11:19,752 --> 00:11:23,896 And it's actually specifically targeted at multi-family dwellings right now. 141 00:11:23,896 --> 00:11:33,405 And so we're seeing state dollars being put toward these public-private partnerships where it's state, utility, property owner, and charging companies working together to deploy 142 00:11:33,405 --> 00:11:34,466 chargers. 143 00:11:34,882 --> 00:11:44,313 It's brand new, so we haven't seen deployments out of this program yet, but a huge opportunity and really points to the value of state-based programs to fill in the gaps 144 00:11:44,313 --> 00:11:45,564 from what we're seeing at 145 00:11:48,086 --> 00:11:49,026 And that's fantastic. 146 00:11:49,026 --> 00:11:51,299 I'm glad to hear that there's something in Michigan around there too. 147 00:11:51,299 --> 00:11:57,765 And I know there's been an expansion into the multifamily dwelling house soon in California. 148 00:11:57,765 --> 00:12:01,586 So to your point, there continues to be an expansion. 149 00:12:01,586 --> 00:12:06,302 I think we're even seeing more of an engagement from states saying, what can we do? 150 00:12:06,423 --> 00:12:08,985 How do we leverage other funding that's out there? 151 00:12:08,985 --> 00:12:14,690 How do we take advantage of the fact that there is such an intersectionality? 152 00:12:14,730 --> 00:12:20,612 with EV and other initiatives, other things that the states are working on, other funding that they may have. 153 00:12:20,612 --> 00:12:23,322 So I'm excited about that. 154 00:12:23,322 --> 00:12:25,673 And I do think it's going to continue. 155 00:12:26,413 --> 00:12:28,294 It will have its evolution. 156 00:12:28,814 --> 00:12:34,235 At the end, the state action, I think, is what's going to be valued the most. 157 00:12:34,536 --> 00:12:37,706 Yeah, I completely agree with everyone and what they're saying around that. 158 00:12:37,706 --> 00:12:39,797 I'm kind of curious. 159 00:12:39,797 --> 00:12:43,818 You had a great example of Michigan and what you're seeing there, and then your examples as well. 160 00:12:44,098 --> 00:12:55,028 How, what are, I think some of the things I've seen in my own experience with similar programs, where they succeed and where they have challenges is sometimes in the feedback 161 00:12:55,028 --> 00:12:55,748 loops. 162 00:12:55,748 --> 00:12:59,662 Like how you're getting those wins out there and shared with others. 163 00:12:59,662 --> 00:13:08,510 So I would kind of just like to hear what your experience has been with trying to either get that visibility or just making sure that some of these programs that are really cool 164 00:13:08,510 --> 00:13:11,762 that fill those gaps and that state need actually get out there. 165 00:13:13,066 --> 00:13:16,058 Education and collaboration, I think, are really the name of the game. 166 00:13:16,058 --> 00:13:18,690 Back to the point of our conversation today. 167 00:13:19,210 --> 00:13:24,334 Sticking with this multifamily housing opportunity, we saw a real gap in education. 168 00:13:24,334 --> 00:13:33,640 Do property owners understand that their residents are demanding EV chargers or that by installing EV chargers, they can increase their property values? 169 00:13:33,760 --> 00:13:35,241 I think the answer was no. 170 00:13:35,241 --> 00:13:39,925 So we worked with our members, actually created a guide and it has a whole list of FAQs. 171 00:13:39,925 --> 00:13:42,336 It's got an installation checklist. 172 00:13:42,354 --> 00:13:51,821 It's got information on how your property value can increase by installing EV chargers and then a list of contacts to get started on your EV charging program and how you can get 173 00:13:51,821 --> 00:13:52,622 grant money. 174 00:13:52,622 --> 00:14:02,108 And so I think as an industry, we need to be thinking about how we reach these potential customers in the places that they're at and at the knowledge level that they have. 175 00:14:02,229 --> 00:14:09,462 I think it remains to be seen if this guide is successful, but we're trying to be really creative about speaking people's language and. 176 00:14:09,462 --> 00:14:15,452 and finding them in their property management associations or finding those new audiences to talk about charging. 177 00:14:17,120 --> 00:14:18,861 I agree with your point. 178 00:14:18,861 --> 00:14:24,276 think education is really important and I think there's growing awareness of grid limitations. 179 00:14:24,276 --> 00:14:26,557 You talked about both family and housing. 180 00:14:26,778 --> 00:14:31,983 They're often at the, apartment buildings are at the end of a distribution line or where there's not much capacity. 181 00:14:31,983 --> 00:14:42,702 So they can't really convert to EVs easily without a microgrid solution, like adding storage, adding solar available grid, manage charging, kind of all of that together. 182 00:14:42,702 --> 00:14:45,694 And so I think that... 183 00:14:45,694 --> 00:14:50,847 education helps people understand what the possibilities are to overcome these limitations. 184 00:14:54,534 --> 00:14:55,055 All right. 185 00:14:55,055 --> 00:15:01,219 Well, I think that's a big part of what we do at Grid Connections too, is really around that messaging. 186 00:15:01,480 --> 00:15:05,463 And I feel like what we found, there's a couple things. 187 00:15:05,463 --> 00:15:13,610 One, the most impactful, at least from the electric vehicle side, to get like that interest from the consumer is actually butts and seats. 188 00:15:13,610 --> 00:15:19,414 Like once someone is in the electric vehicle, like, I get this and this could actually work for me. 189 00:15:19,675 --> 00:15:23,578 Having said that, I think that model is pretty clear. 190 00:15:23,810 --> 00:15:25,490 just people need to really lean in. 191 00:15:25,490 --> 00:15:30,410 I feel like people used to lean in and they're kind of like, oh, people figured out now we need to lean back into that. 192 00:15:30,410 --> 00:15:41,350 But on the public or sometimes a private entity, what are those kind of butts and seats moments that you found that can help really get these people who might either be 193 00:15:41,350 --> 00:15:46,850 apprehensive or just not just curious and but still a little skittish to get them across the line? 194 00:15:47,490 --> 00:15:48,950 was gonna say riding drives. 195 00:15:48,950 --> 00:15:50,370 There are a lot of those in California. 196 00:15:50,370 --> 00:15:53,538 don't know about other states, they're a great way for the 197 00:15:53,538 --> 00:15:55,765 public to engage and, let's try it out. 198 00:15:55,765 --> 00:15:57,782 Let's see what it's like to drive one. 199 00:15:57,782 --> 00:16:00,208 And then you drive one and say, this is amazing. 200 00:16:01,666 --> 00:16:13,730 100 % I think once you go EV you don't go back and we CalSTAR we do a significant number of ride-and-drive special especially in California and The best thing that you hear 201 00:16:13,730 --> 00:16:22,423 somebody say is this is kind of like a truck Yeah, it is a truck and then they drive it They're like wait, this is like a jet and it they really like that and to your point I 202 00:16:22,423 --> 00:16:24,353 think butts in the seat is great. 203 00:16:24,353 --> 00:16:27,434 I also think that there's an important piece of 204 00:16:27,522 --> 00:16:34,602 Helping people understand what does charging really mean in terms of, and I'm thinking from the fleet side, but what does it mean in terms of operation? 205 00:16:34,742 --> 00:16:38,682 You know, what is it, what does this port look like? 206 00:16:38,742 --> 00:16:41,662 How do I manage the system? 207 00:16:41,702 --> 00:16:44,682 Like having more of the demonstrations on that point. 208 00:16:44,682 --> 00:16:56,562 So they see it as the ecosystem of EV and not just a truck or not just a charger, but really pulling it together so people can understand how does this work in the functions of 209 00:16:56,562 --> 00:16:57,337 their job. 210 00:16:57,337 --> 00:16:59,818 or of their interests? 211 00:17:00,599 --> 00:17:02,018 I was just going to comment on that. 212 00:17:02,018 --> 00:17:08,964 I love that point because I think the public comes to EVs massively confused about the fueling of an EV. 213 00:17:08,964 --> 00:17:13,026 They have in their mind a gas car, and so they think they need a gas station. 214 00:17:13,166 --> 00:17:18,809 And what you learn the longer you drive an EV is that's not the way 90 % of the charging is done. 215 00:17:18,930 --> 00:17:20,671 It's range replenishment. 216 00:17:20,671 --> 00:17:23,162 I just want to be where I am, do something else. 217 00:17:23,162 --> 00:17:25,253 I don't have to wait for my car to fill. 218 00:17:25,253 --> 00:17:26,074 I'm at school. 219 00:17:26,074 --> 00:17:27,030 I'm at work. 220 00:17:27,030 --> 00:17:31,313 home, I'm in retail, and my car is filling up while I'm doing something else. 221 00:17:31,313 --> 00:17:36,437 And after a while people start to understand that, it's like, what I really need is chargers everywhere. 222 00:17:36,437 --> 00:17:41,060 And they don't have to be high-power chargers, they don't have to be level three, because that's hard on the grid. 223 00:17:41,690 --> 00:17:43,690 They just need to be reliable and consistent. 224 00:17:43,690 --> 00:17:44,823 It'd be reliable. 225 00:17:44,823 --> 00:17:47,124 Which, that's why we're here. 226 00:17:47,645 --> 00:17:54,690 I guess from the side of the 227 00:17:55,106 --> 00:18:05,123 like if you're trying to approach kind of a public entity and say I am a private organization that is trying to help with like multifamily home, you're right, is kind of 228 00:18:05,123 --> 00:18:13,879 the big theme I'm seeing from a lot of people and it's a great opportunity because there's a big gap for it especially what we're seeing with RightShare and EV adoption there. 229 00:18:13,919 --> 00:18:23,726 So I'm kind of curious if there's been any other things that have been effective for getting buy-in from additional stakeholders or 230 00:18:23,786 --> 00:18:31,494 Is it really just, you gotta have that messaging, get out there, and then tie where you can to the right organization. 231 00:18:34,642 --> 00:18:40,406 I think one of the most important things or one of the first questions they ask is financing. 232 00:18:40,406 --> 00:18:51,274 It's always about financing and just to relate it to solar for a minute, know, 15 or so years ago, PPAs came to solar and it ignited the market. 233 00:18:51,274 --> 00:18:58,718 When that got figured out, when solar got bankable and was easy to deploy projects, the financiers became comfortable with it. 234 00:18:58,719 --> 00:19:03,636 And when we get to that point with EVs, the same sort of think viral adoption will take 235 00:19:03,636 --> 00:19:05,307 especially from public agency. 236 00:19:06,527 --> 00:19:09,028 Yeah, actually I'm really excited about that. 237 00:19:09,989 --> 00:19:17,622 started in the transportation world, then I moved over to the built environment where I was focusing on energy performance contracting, which is actually a financial mechanism 238 00:19:17,622 --> 00:19:18,853 that you save. 239 00:19:18,853 --> 00:19:27,757 Because you're to be saving over decades, how do you up front those savings now to pay and leverage for capital deployments and new projects? 240 00:19:27,757 --> 00:19:29,836 I am waiting for that to happen in this space. 241 00:19:29,836 --> 00:19:32,908 I mean, it is a no brainer when you're talking about displacing fuel. 242 00:19:32,908 --> 00:19:42,173 Sometimes in California, that's approaching $5 with, you know, a KWH that's maybe, maybe on the high side of 60 cents, you know? 243 00:19:42,173 --> 00:19:52,598 so like, am waiting for someone to really understand that there is a way other industries have done it to unlock now the savings that you're going to generate over a decade and 244 00:19:52,598 --> 00:19:53,409 then leverage it through. 245 00:19:53,409 --> 00:19:59,582 know some States have the ability to wrap in performance contracting for 246 00:20:00,226 --> 00:20:03,148 fuel switch and EV seems like the perfect placement. 247 00:20:03,148 --> 00:20:08,271 That is the type of thing that we need to see happen in the industry to really unlock the capital. 248 00:20:08,471 --> 00:20:11,533 And just to add a point to it, that's alright. 249 00:20:11,593 --> 00:20:17,596 In solar PTAs, the kilowatt hour is worth say 10 to 15 cents. 250 00:20:17,617 --> 00:20:22,080 But if I can sell that same kilowatt hour to an EV driver, it might be worth double that. 251 00:20:22,080 --> 00:20:26,612 And so to the advantage to the financier is actually terrific. 252 00:20:28,714 --> 00:20:31,175 super creative solutions here. 253 00:20:31,175 --> 00:20:40,420 There is an organization called Pay As You Save or an organization supporting this idea of Pay As You Save where you have kind of that financing upfront and then you pay a little 254 00:20:40,420 --> 00:20:44,601 bit over time, say in an unbilled financing way. 255 00:20:45,362 --> 00:20:52,986 And so you can pay the utility for say the battery and your electric school bus over time so that you're keeping your 256 00:20:54,210 --> 00:20:58,410 operational costs consistent, but you're not having that big increase in your capital costs. 257 00:20:58,410 --> 00:21:02,790 So I do think there's a lot of creative things happening in the financing space. 258 00:21:02,790 --> 00:21:12,010 I think those hard numbers are a key part of unlocking buy-in, especially when you're talking to fleet managers and people that are steeped in the finance world. 259 00:21:12,010 --> 00:21:13,990 TCO was kind of the word I was expecting to come up. 260 00:21:13,990 --> 00:21:15,950 I'm surprised it doesn't come until now. 261 00:21:15,950 --> 00:21:16,090 Yeah. 262 00:21:16,090 --> 00:21:16,746 And I think 263 00:21:16,746 --> 00:21:24,429 Again, back to education, educating those fleet managers on all of the things that should go into the TCO analysis for an electric vehicle. 264 00:21:24,429 --> 00:21:27,410 You're have reduced downtime because there's fewer moving parts. 265 00:21:27,410 --> 00:21:29,851 You never have to stop to get an oil change. 266 00:21:30,172 --> 00:21:33,313 You're gonna have cheaper electricity. 267 00:21:33,313 --> 00:21:37,795 You are gonna have drivers who enjoy driving their vehicles more. 268 00:21:37,795 --> 00:21:42,116 so helping them do that TCO analysis, I think is huge. 269 00:21:42,116 --> 00:21:46,348 And then finding the person, probably the driver, maybe the maintenance tech. 270 00:21:46,348 --> 00:21:48,919 who's really excited about EVs at that fleet. 271 00:21:48,919 --> 00:21:52,541 You need that internal champion to help get the buy-in of all their peers. 272 00:21:52,541 --> 00:22:00,766 So who's the internal influencer at the fleets or at the property management association that can tell their peers how great this transition is? 273 00:22:01,587 --> 00:22:04,308 Well, I think all of that is great. 274 00:22:04,308 --> 00:22:05,139 I'm curious. 275 00:22:05,139 --> 00:22:11,852 What's really interesting about this panel too is we have kind of, like I said, we started with the idea of the federal and it's moving to the state. 276 00:22:11,852 --> 00:22:14,892 We have some interesting kind of different state experiences. 277 00:22:14,892 --> 00:22:18,905 So I'd love to kind of hear what your experiences have been with those states. 278 00:22:18,905 --> 00:22:28,433 You're of getting that buy-in and maybe either seeing things that are working in other states that maybe you've kind of stolen or adopted for your state to kind of find success. 279 00:22:28,433 --> 00:22:32,316 Yeah, so CalSTART is obviously headquartered in California. 280 00:22:32,316 --> 00:22:38,040 We have five regional offices or throughout the United States, actually in six other countries as well. 281 00:22:38,161 --> 00:22:44,866 But I live in Colorado and it is being in California, California and you know this, 282 00:22:45,246 --> 00:22:51,409 It is in many ways more advanced than any other place, maybe any other country. 283 00:22:51,409 --> 00:23:04,644 But Colorado too, seeing how the kind of all of government approach where you have, yes, you have an energy office, but then you have the DOT, you have air quality side all coming 284 00:23:04,644 --> 00:23:13,174 together really to understand how to decarbonize, how to pull all of government together. 285 00:23:13,174 --> 00:23:18,294 Those coordinated conversations within states, I think, is really what is most exciting. 286 00:23:18,294 --> 00:23:29,686 The state of Washington is putting out a new program that brings both the vehicle voucher and the rebate for the infrastructure projects together to help facilitate that whole 287 00:23:29,686 --> 00:23:32,107 project financing. 288 00:23:32,107 --> 00:23:39,682 So I think at the states that I'm working, or the states where I live and other states that we're working in, we are starting to see this more collaboration among state agencies 289 00:23:39,682 --> 00:23:42,254 together to figure out how do we 290 00:23:42,338 --> 00:23:47,378 better response to the market in the through the different capacities of the agencies. 291 00:23:47,558 --> 00:23:57,878 Well, I just want to say, I know you work with Cal, but Colorado kind of calling them out, they've actually been really effective at actually moving pretty quickly to get a lot of 292 00:23:57,878 --> 00:23:58,698 these things implemented. 293 00:23:58,698 --> 00:24:06,158 Not that California hasn't, but it is really cool to kind of see these different approaches to the speeds at rolling out a lot of these different new programs. 294 00:24:06,158 --> 00:24:06,518 Yeah. 295 00:24:06,518 --> 00:24:08,238 And I shout out to the people in Colorado. 296 00:24:08,238 --> 00:24:12,282 What's really great too, is that it's in many ways you get the 297 00:24:12,290 --> 00:24:18,790 the ability to show in real world that EVs can perform at cold, can perform at altitude. 298 00:24:18,790 --> 00:24:20,630 can high wind, high wind. 299 00:24:20,630 --> 00:24:21,130 Yes. 300 00:24:21,130 --> 00:24:27,350 All sorts of like every kind of thing where the arrow and inefficiency of an EV is like charged to its greatest. 301 00:24:27,410 --> 00:24:29,550 Colorado is really a great test bed for them. 302 00:24:29,550 --> 00:24:30,070 Yeah. 303 00:24:30,070 --> 00:24:39,490 And what the state is not, this isn't paid by the state of Colorado, this speech, but it has a great state and the work that that, um, Excel energy is doing and as well as the 304 00:24:39,490 --> 00:24:41,150 other utilities, the municipal's and 305 00:24:41,150 --> 00:24:44,072 in the state working together to figure out how to make this happen. 306 00:24:44,072 --> 00:24:54,680 I think that's the role of public entities is you don't have to be, you don't have to have one agency who takes the lead and carries all of the load. 307 00:24:54,680 --> 00:25:00,544 But just looking across and what are the different agencies doing and how can they partner collaborate to take a piece of that. 308 00:25:00,544 --> 00:25:08,840 Often times you don't even have to go and solicit and ask for new funding, but it's really collaborating in the resources that you have and Colorado has done a great job. 309 00:25:11,274 --> 00:25:14,086 Yeah, Michigan's doing a lot in this space too. 310 00:25:14,086 --> 00:25:15,637 That's true. 311 00:25:15,777 --> 00:25:20,810 It's really exciting to hear about Colorado and California and what we can continue to learn from other states. 312 00:25:20,810 --> 00:25:31,047 But I think Michigan has done a great job at creating spaces where industry is driving the conversation and our policymakers are actually listening to what are the real barriers and 313 00:25:31,047 --> 00:25:35,290 what are the real opportunities in this changing automotive industry. 314 00:25:35,654 --> 00:25:39,205 For example, I sit on the Council on Future Mobility and Electrification. 315 00:25:39,205 --> 00:25:43,877 It's a governor-appointed council that includes all of the major auto manufacturers. 316 00:25:43,877 --> 00:25:52,740 It's got action teams where we've got advocates, utility companies, charging station companies, all coming together and grappling with some of these really hard conversations. 317 00:25:52,740 --> 00:25:57,082 And then we make recommendations that oftentimes turn into bills or budget allocations. 318 00:25:57,082 --> 00:25:57,868 And so it's 319 00:25:57,868 --> 00:26:08,244 people coming together, grappling with these questions and then creating a real opportunity to influence the conversation at the Capitol and create real solutions. 320 00:26:08,304 --> 00:26:10,975 And I hope that's a model that other states are taking too. 321 00:26:10,975 --> 00:26:18,109 think having industry at the table brings both pragmatic ideas, but also real challenges and solutions. 322 00:26:18,109 --> 00:26:19,050 Yeah. 323 00:26:19,510 --> 00:26:20,931 I like what you both said. 324 00:26:20,931 --> 00:26:26,514 I agree with Stacey that trends tend to start in California and kind of spread across the country. 325 00:26:26,946 --> 00:26:29,047 I've seen this in solar for many years. 326 00:26:29,248 --> 00:26:31,650 California is the number one solar market in the United States. 327 00:26:31,650 --> 00:26:33,332 It has been for decades. 328 00:26:33,332 --> 00:26:39,136 But now that has moved to Colorado and Massachusetts and New York and North Carolina. 329 00:26:39,337 --> 00:26:43,320 And I think that same trend we see happening with EVs. 330 00:26:43,320 --> 00:26:46,683 Adoption rates in California are new EVs. 331 00:26:46,683 --> 00:26:51,487 Sorry, new vehicles are in excess of 20 % in Palo Alto where I live. 332 00:26:51,487 --> 00:26:52,288 It's a third. 333 00:26:52,288 --> 00:26:53,208 So. 334 00:26:54,806 --> 00:26:58,311 very high adoption rates for EVs and that drives the trends. 335 00:26:59,914 --> 00:27:08,830 I think one of the interesting things we've kind of been talking about is like where these different states have like really shined and the ways that others could kind of follow 336 00:27:08,830 --> 00:27:10,702 those leads and kind of grow from there. 337 00:27:10,702 --> 00:27:18,827 I would be curious to hear like if we're kind of looking forward, where I mean multifamily as we were just talking about, that's kind of the hot one right now. 338 00:27:18,827 --> 00:27:28,904 Where are some of these other gaps that each of you are seeing that maybe needs to have more of a light shined on it or things that certain states could be doing to really help. 339 00:27:29,026 --> 00:27:31,206 accelerate the growth of this? 340 00:27:31,466 --> 00:27:38,906 I think there's lots of light duty fleets that are ripe for conversion, but there's a lot of confusion about it. 341 00:27:38,906 --> 00:27:48,626 know, think inspection vehicles for big cities, think workplace charging is essentially a fleet and employers are interested in having more EV chargers, but their grid capacity is 342 00:27:48,626 --> 00:27:51,586 limited, especially if you think about like city fleets. 343 00:27:51,586 --> 00:27:56,546 They have a gas tank in the back of lot today, but they have very limited grid at that lot. 344 00:27:56,546 --> 00:28:05,470 And so the only way they can convert those vehicles is add solar, add storage, and make use of available grid capacity to convert them. 345 00:28:05,490 --> 00:28:07,511 And that's where it will start. 346 00:28:07,511 --> 00:28:08,881 There's interest in trucks. 347 00:28:08,881 --> 00:28:09,782 It's a harder problem. 348 00:28:09,782 --> 00:28:14,294 It takes much more grid power to do fleets of trucks. 349 00:28:14,294 --> 00:28:16,905 But it needs to start at light-digger fleets. 350 00:28:16,905 --> 00:28:21,236 So I think there's a lot of interest there and a lot of education gaps. 351 00:28:21,277 --> 00:28:22,957 Yeah, I totally agree with Tom. 352 00:28:22,957 --> 00:28:24,482 I thought fleet and rural. 353 00:28:24,482 --> 00:28:29,062 charging are two huge opportunities where we haven't quite cracked that nut. 354 00:28:29,602 --> 00:28:31,542 Michigan has a lot of rural land. 355 00:28:31,542 --> 00:28:36,902 The Upper Peninsula is, you know, it's a very remote, it's beautiful, it's gorgeous. 356 00:28:36,902 --> 00:28:38,262 It also gets very cold. 357 00:28:38,262 --> 00:28:40,922 I mean, yeah, I mean, there's definitely a good use case for it there for sure. 358 00:28:40,922 --> 00:28:42,762 Yeah, it gets very cold. 359 00:28:42,902 --> 00:28:45,982 know, putting chargers in the Upper Peninsula is a feat in and of itself. 360 00:28:45,982 --> 00:28:51,142 And luckily, again, amazing public-private partnerships that are doing really innovative things. 361 00:28:51,318 --> 00:28:56,242 Polaris partnered with the state of Michigan to do an off-road electric vehicle charging route. 362 00:28:56,242 --> 00:29:07,120 So you can take a Polaris electric side-by-side off-road, charge it in the middle of the woods with battery and solar powered chargers, and, you know, do a whole day trip in an 363 00:29:07,120 --> 00:29:08,652 electric off-road vehicle. 364 00:29:08,652 --> 00:29:17,479 And so there's a lot of exciting things happening, but much more interest in deploying rural chargers at scale, I think, is needed. 365 00:29:17,880 --> 00:29:20,780 I want to piggyback on what you just said there, Jane, because I 366 00:29:20,780 --> 00:29:30,505 We've been talking a lot about on-road fleet, you thinking about the whole industry, I think, and we've already seen it, the off-road at ports, electrifying ports. 367 00:29:30,505 --> 00:29:39,260 We all know that there's big numbers out there right now in terms of investments made in the clean ports program, which CalSTART, we're really excited to be working on. 368 00:29:39,520 --> 00:29:47,885 There are also in kind of inside the gates, manufacturing, you've got your movers, you've got your tugs. 369 00:29:47,885 --> 00:29:50,426 Those are, people often think they can, 370 00:29:51,390 --> 00:29:54,792 I want to talk long haul, over the road, big trucks. 371 00:29:54,792 --> 00:30:03,167 No, there's so many opportunities to diversify the way that we are doing electrification besides just trucks. 372 00:30:03,167 --> 00:30:13,132 And I do want to actually, you guys talked a little bit about the light duty side, but we're focusing a lot too on how do you deploy on the medium and heavy duty side for more 373 00:30:13,132 --> 00:30:19,936 of the building out that national electrification infrastructure to start getting regional. 374 00:30:19,956 --> 00:30:25,169 and longer distance freight planning in place. 375 00:30:25,169 --> 00:30:35,874 And I think this is one thing where, you know, having the states talk among themselves, we facilitate a project for the I-95 corridor from New Jersey down to Georgia. 376 00:30:35,874 --> 00:30:41,658 having the states start to talk about, hey, here's where we think we want to have hubs. 377 00:30:41,658 --> 00:30:43,889 This is how we think we want to have hubs. 378 00:30:43,889 --> 00:30:46,691 And then go to the industry and say, hey, we're talking about this. 379 00:30:46,691 --> 00:30:49,270 How does this line up with the way that you are going to charge? 380 00:30:49,270 --> 00:30:53,694 the business side of freight and moving people and moving things. 381 00:30:53,694 --> 00:31:03,542 So think that's another place where states can partner among themselves and then bring in industry to help figure out how we're going to build this out in the next five to 10 382 00:31:03,542 --> 00:31:04,362 years. 383 00:31:04,603 --> 00:31:07,488 Yeah, I think that's a really everything. 384 00:31:07,488 --> 00:31:09,968 Once again, everything you guys have said, I agree with. 385 00:31:09,968 --> 00:31:10,728 Go figure. 386 00:31:10,728 --> 00:31:17,676 But what's really interesting about I think there's there was a lot of perceptions and kind of conversations around 387 00:31:17,676 --> 00:31:19,388 how to electrify things. 388 00:31:19,388 --> 00:31:21,219 And then they kind of just start moving forward. 389 00:31:21,219 --> 00:31:27,280 And you go back only about five years ago, there weren't really even EV pickups. 390 00:31:27,280 --> 00:31:29,656 You have like EV sedans and maybe one or two crossovers. 391 00:31:29,656 --> 00:31:30,617 Now we have pickups. 392 00:31:30,617 --> 00:31:34,120 There's so many other things that are actually now coming to market. 393 00:31:34,120 --> 00:31:41,226 And I do think there's a lot of potential for a lot of these industries to kind of take a step back again and say, well, maybe now is actually the time that we can really start 394 00:31:41,226 --> 00:31:43,608 moving these fleets to electrification. 395 00:31:43,889 --> 00:31:45,729 I think one... 396 00:31:45,729 --> 00:31:58,195 The final thing I just want to kind of talk with and ask the panel is, let's get looking forward with the things that we've seen already change so quickly and where things, mean, 397 00:31:58,195 --> 00:32:04,517 the class A trucks, that's probably the biggest, hardest use case, is still going electric a little slowly. 398 00:32:04,718 --> 00:32:14,652 I mean, they are a really fascinating part because they the chicken and the egg of, well, you could build these trucks, but there's no charging infrastructure for them just yet. 399 00:32:14,690 --> 00:32:15,910 These companies are doing that. 400 00:32:15,910 --> 00:32:22,570 I think for me personally, that's one of the interesting like kind of gaps still in the industry that is being solved. 401 00:32:22,570 --> 00:32:26,970 And it's probably still another five or so years out before it's like really fleshed out. 402 00:32:26,970 --> 00:32:29,590 But that's one of the areas I think is really fascinating. 403 00:32:29,590 --> 00:32:37,990 I'd be curious just to hear from each one on the panel, like looking for what are some of those areas that you think are really cool or have this kind of potential that's almost 404 00:32:37,990 --> 00:32:40,790 there or just what you're most excited about. 405 00:32:41,830 --> 00:32:43,226 You know, like 406 00:32:43,490 --> 00:32:52,650 An example of Class A trucks or certainly high medium duty trucks that I think is really right for conversion is garbage trucks. 407 00:32:52,810 --> 00:33:01,390 Garbage trucks go out in the morning, do their route, they're done, and then they have the nighttime to charge and there's lots of good capacity at night. 408 00:33:01,390 --> 00:33:05,130 And so I think that'll be the next one after light duty. 409 00:33:05,130 --> 00:33:07,190 That is a good point, yeah. 410 00:33:07,210 --> 00:33:08,870 And school buses would be another one. 411 00:33:09,834 --> 00:33:11,285 In many ways, it's already there. 412 00:33:11,285 --> 00:33:17,679 Refuse started using CNG decades ago, so they have the experience of being able to do that. 413 00:33:17,679 --> 00:33:20,220 I'm just, because I took the mic and I'll get right back to the hookup. 414 00:33:20,220 --> 00:33:25,088 I'm actually most excited in what Tom is working on and looking at how you can... 415 00:33:25,088 --> 00:33:26,103 Good point. 416 00:33:26,143 --> 00:33:29,865 You really bring in the ability to have resiliency. 417 00:33:29,865 --> 00:33:36,229 You're looking at on-site opportunities for demand shift, demand peak. 418 00:33:36,229 --> 00:33:38,474 And we talk about managed charging. 419 00:33:38,474 --> 00:33:39,295 microgrids. 420 00:33:39,295 --> 00:33:41,746 think I'm really excited about that space. 421 00:33:41,746 --> 00:33:44,518 We have some folks on the team that are working on it. 422 00:33:44,518 --> 00:33:50,681 You mentioned Megawatt, MCS, the working group and what they're doing with SAE to get the standards out. 423 00:33:50,681 --> 00:33:52,542 I think that's going to be crucial. 424 00:33:52,542 --> 00:33:54,654 I think that is something, you know, right now people... 425 00:33:54,654 --> 00:33:57,956 It's still early, but it's finally kind of getting to the point now that it can be implemented. 426 00:33:57,956 --> 00:34:05,772 Yeah, because you know, you don't know how materials and elements are going to react when you're hitting with such high dosage, right? 427 00:34:05,772 --> 00:34:07,553 So you want to make sure the standards are in place. 428 00:34:07,553 --> 00:34:11,686 And I think once we start getting there, it's the same with inductive EV charging. 429 00:34:11,686 --> 00:34:16,410 Like getting to the point where you're starting to have standards in place, the industry can fall behind. 430 00:34:16,410 --> 00:34:18,391 Now we know what the equipment looks like. 431 00:34:18,391 --> 00:34:23,394 Now we know how to start incentivizing, how to go to states for regs. 432 00:34:24,556 --> 00:34:30,620 those kinds of the things that we need them to happen faster so that we can continue to accelerate. 433 00:34:30,620 --> 00:34:34,182 But what Tom is working on, I'm really, really excited about. 434 00:34:35,574 --> 00:34:36,594 Yeah, I agree. 435 00:34:36,594 --> 00:34:41,676 think there's so much in new technology that's being proven out right now. 436 00:34:41,676 --> 00:34:50,599 We're seeing EV chargers powered by batteries and solar or maybe powered by a propane tank or a hydrogen tank. 437 00:34:50,599 --> 00:34:59,241 And how do we continue to blur the line between what's been traditionally the mobility industry and what's been traditionally the energy industry? 438 00:34:59,241 --> 00:35:01,996 There used to be a bright line there and it's increasingly 439 00:35:01,996 --> 00:35:06,607 foggy as these two industries interplay and have a lot of value to each other. 440 00:35:06,607 --> 00:35:17,010 So I'm not, I don't have one technology that I'm really bullish on right now, but I think the next one to two years, we're going to really see some of this being proven out and 441 00:35:17,010 --> 00:35:18,650 continue to get more sophisticated. 442 00:35:18,650 --> 00:35:24,512 And I'm really excited as we kind of navigate through this messy middle in the adoption curve. 443 00:35:24,866 --> 00:35:28,133 Thank you for that plug, Stacey, because I really agree with your point. 444 00:35:28,133 --> 00:35:32,014 know, managed charging is absolutely a prerequisite. 445 00:35:32,052 --> 00:35:35,233 and you can get so much more energy from the grid by managing it. 446 00:35:35,233 --> 00:35:38,445 And resiliency is really important as well. 447 00:35:38,445 --> 00:35:47,278 Police stations won't convert their vehicles or fire stations won't convert their vehicles if they don't have a resilient solution because they're worried what happens in an 448 00:35:47,278 --> 00:35:48,599 emergency if it gets out. 449 00:35:48,599 --> 00:35:51,110 So a lot of opportunities for resilience. 450 00:35:51,110 --> 00:35:52,321 I might change my choice. 451 00:35:52,321 --> 00:35:53,501 I think I'm stealing Stacey's. 452 00:35:53,501 --> 00:35:54,632 That's a pretty good one. 453 00:35:54,632 --> 00:35:57,277 The only advantage is you see a big truck going down the road. 454 00:35:57,277 --> 00:36:00,876 A lot of people I don't think always think and see about the micro grid. 455 00:36:00,876 --> 00:36:01,926 But I totally agree with you. 456 00:36:01,926 --> 00:36:03,748 It does unlock a lot of really cool stuff. 457 00:36:03,748 --> 00:36:08,270 So I just want to say Tom, Jane, and Stacey, thank you so much for the panel today. 458 00:36:08,270 --> 00:36:15,584 For those listening, since it is recorded as well, what's the best way to find out more about you and connect with some of the projects you're working on? 459 00:36:15,584 --> 00:36:20,416 Yeah, paired power, P-A-I-R-E-D power.com. 460 00:36:21,366 --> 00:36:25,619 You can find Clean Fuels Michigan at cleanfuelsmichigan.org. 461 00:36:26,560 --> 00:36:30,222 And CalSTART is calstart.org. 462 00:36:30,222 --> 00:36:30,914 Love it. 463 00:36:30,914 --> 00:36:32,261 Thank you so much. 464 00:36:32,450 --> 00:36:32,904 Thank you. 465 00:36:32,904 --> 00:36:33,257 Thank you. 466 00:36:38,382 --> 00:36:44,647 Thanks for tuning in and that wraps up our special episode recorded live from the electric vehicle charging summit and expo in Las Vegas. 467 00:36:44,647 --> 00:36:54,804 Huge thanks again to our panelists, Tom McCalmont of Paired Power, Jane McCurry from Clean Fuels Michigan, and Stacy Simms from CalSTART for sharing their insights on public-private 468 00:36:54,804 --> 00:36:59,848 partnerships, state-level momentum, and the future of electric vehicle infrastructure. 469 00:36:59,848 --> 00:37:06,353 If you found this conversation valuable, please take a moment to share this episode with someone else who's curious about the future of clean transportation. 470 00:37:06,353 --> 00:37:09,525 And while you're at it, leave us a quick review on your podcast app. 471 00:37:09,525 --> 00:37:12,487 It really helps more people discover grid connections. 472 00:37:12,487 --> 00:37:19,945 Plus, don't forget to check out the official launch of Grid Connections Consulting, your new go-to partner for EV strategy, messaging, and fleet electrification. 473 00:37:19,945 --> 00:37:24,088 Want even more insights from the front lines of the electric vehicle transition? 474 00:37:24,088 --> 00:37:27,011 Subscribe to our newsletter using the link in the show notes. 475 00:37:27,011 --> 00:37:30,403 Until next week, this is The Grid Connections Podcast, signing off.